1
00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,300
All right, so tonight Kendall 
has joined me from the UK, 

2
00:00:38,300 --> 00:00:41,600
Kendall, how you going mate. 
All right, nice to meet everyone

3
00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,500
and hi, Josh, how's it going? 
Good faith. 

4
00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,500
Yeah, we sort of got in contact 
through email, you reached out 

5
00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:52,600
to me and Hank Hill from the 
hero hammer fanzine and, you 

6
00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,000
know, you know, a lot of our 
online presence and you have 

7
00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,400
your own sort of online 
presence, which I have just 

8
00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,700
become aware of just quite 
exciting. 

9
00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,800
So, may tell us all about how 
you got everything started 

10
00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,900
about, And you know, about your,
your gig what? 

11
00:01:06,900 --> 00:01:09,100
You guys do. 
Sure. 

12
00:01:09,100 --> 00:01:14,500
So I am part of the online 
community chaos talks online, 

13
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,700
and as you can, imagine those of
you familiar with cows horses, a

14
00:01:18,700 --> 00:01:20,200
background, the concept 
everything. 

15
00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,200
You'll know that it's a range 
that has its roots. 

16
00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,400
Its modern Roots at least in 
fourth edition and in the kind 

17
00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:32,500
of pick era of the mid to early 
late 90s that here. 

18
00:01:32,500 --> 00:01:36,000
I Hammer as a z Dean and Crown 
of command as a podcast 

19
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:40,300
represent. 
And so I mentioned to the guys 

20
00:01:40,300 --> 00:01:42,700
on our Discord chat. 
You know, if you seen this and 

21
00:01:42,700 --> 00:01:46,200
it turns out tons of the people 
who are in our community which 

22
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,800
is still going. 
After all these years a big big 

23
00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:50,800
fans of that. 
Some people call it middle. 

24
00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,700
Hammer era. 
I'm not Josh sure what your 

25
00:01:53,700 --> 00:01:57,000
perspective on how to name 
everything is but whatever we 

26
00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:02,500
want to call it chaos. 
Dwarfs online is a board it's a 

27
00:02:02,500 --> 00:02:05,500
Discord channel. 
Is a pod First, it's a 

28
00:02:05,508 --> 00:02:09,900
multimedia adventure for 
everybody who loves those goofy 

29
00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:13,900
to office in their big hats and 
it's been through many 

30
00:02:13,900 --> 00:02:17,100
iterations over the years. 
So I'm a very recent convert to 

31
00:02:17,100 --> 00:02:19,700
it. 
I joined it in about the last 12

32
00:02:19,700 --> 00:02:22,100
months. 
We've come a long way in those 

33
00:02:22,100 --> 00:02:23,600
12 months. 
We've got it growing again, 

34
00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,400
expand it and everything but 
we've got a forum that goes all 

35
00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,200
the way back to the mid 2000's 
and fans, who go back all the 

36
00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,900
way to Third Edition and the 
dark days of the mini chaos 

37
00:02:32,900 --> 00:02:34,200
Warrior version of the chaos 
tour. 

38
00:02:34,300 --> 00:02:36,900
Of concept. 
So we wanted to get together, 

39
00:02:37,100 --> 00:02:39,400
have a conversation with you. 
Look at the Army book. 

40
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,500
Look at some of the cool things 
in the range. 

41
00:02:41,500 --> 00:02:45,200
Talk about middle Hammer, old 
Hammer, how it all relates and 

42
00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,100
find out, you know what the the 
vibe is with all the other 

43
00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:51,000
armies that are still trucking 
in their 4th Edition version. 

44
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,600
After all this year's Wonderful 
night. 

45
00:02:53,700 --> 00:02:56,400
Okay, that's great. 
Because, yeah, your community is

46
00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:00,200
something that's new to me as 
well because I was never aware 

47
00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,900
that. 
I've all the armies that I've 

48
00:03:02,900 --> 00:03:04,400
got. 
I could ever think of that cows 

49
00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,900
dogs would have its own, you 
know, multimedia Community. 

50
00:03:07,900 --> 00:03:11,700
It's just so, you know, 
incredible to me, and I think we

51
00:03:11,700 --> 00:03:13,800
talked about it to that, you 
know, cast warms. 

52
00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,500
I don't know. 
It just, they just did not 

53
00:03:15,500 --> 00:03:18,300
appeal to me at all during the 
during the days. 

54
00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:21,600
And I think I like, I've never 
faced a cast wolf Army of never 

55
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,500
seen on the Table. 
Yeah, it's now become. 

56
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:30,100
I don't know, some kind of retro
popular Army for people to 

57
00:03:30,100 --> 00:03:32,700
collect and even even in 
hindsight, now, looking back, 

58
00:03:33,100 --> 00:03:35,400
they do have a lot of appeal. 
There's something about that 

59
00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,700
that are made as a lot of 
character that has a lot of, I 

60
00:03:37,700 --> 00:03:43,700
don't know Charisma to it now. 
Yeah, I think I think the best 

61
00:03:43,700 --> 00:03:46,700
way that Jack and I and the 
other lesson podcasts, always 

62
00:03:46,700 --> 00:03:51,000
talk about this is the reason 
that the cast-off community is 

63
00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,500
so resilient. 
Need some cases appealing is 

64
00:03:54,500 --> 00:03:57,300
because it's an army. 
That's always been kind of last 

65
00:03:57,300 --> 00:04:01,300
place and and ironically that's 
something that's carried on for 

66
00:04:01,300 --> 00:04:04,000
a very long time. 
But if you focus on this core 

67
00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,700
big hat 90s range. 
What you're talking about is a 

68
00:04:07,700 --> 00:04:12,400
range that was brought out, you 
know, through a little bit of 

69
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,400
mismanagement within GW and 
we've interviewed Rick Priestley

70
00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,100
and he's told us all the history
of it, you know, that the hats 

71
00:04:18,100 --> 00:04:20,800
weren't big enough, nobody had 
reviewed the Miniatures, you can

72
00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,100
read all about that in our 
latest. 

73
00:04:22,500 --> 00:04:24,100
Issue of are seen in our 
interview with him. 

74
00:04:24,700 --> 00:04:27,600
But fundamentally was an Army, 
that sold poorly right? 

75
00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,300
Didn't catch fire with a lot of 
people. 

76
00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,600
And from that perspective, never
merited its own full Warhammer 

77
00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,400
armies. 
But so it got a white dwarf 

78
00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:36,700
presents or Hammurabi's chaos 
dwarfs. 

79
00:04:36,700 --> 00:04:39,800
Instead of a proper Warhammer 
armies, book came free with the 

80
00:04:39,808 --> 00:04:45,000
magazine and from that point 
onwards the tone was set, right?

81
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:50,100
This was a minority concerned. 
This was a strange thing that 

82
00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:52,100
wasn't on the same level as 
everything. 

83
00:04:52,500 --> 00:04:55,500
And then never registered 
commercially on that level 

84
00:04:55,500 --> 00:04:58,900
either and as a result concept 
never Revisited or not Revisited

85
00:04:58,900 --> 00:05:02,800
for a very, very long time until
Forge World, we'll talk about 

86
00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,800
that later. 
But as a result, you know the 

87
00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,700
Miniatures themselves are 
relatively rare, right? 

88
00:05:08,900 --> 00:05:11,800
I don't know the details but I 
would say it was one big 

89
00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,500
production. 
Run in the mid-90s. 

90
00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:16,400
I've been through all the old 
stuff, Legends catalogs and you 

91
00:05:16,407 --> 00:05:20,200
can watch the decline from the 
launch of the range in 93 

92
00:05:20,500 --> 00:05:23,700
through to about 95. 
At which point almost, none of 

93
00:05:23,700 --> 00:05:26,100
the Miniatures are still being 
sold a couple of things that are

94
00:05:26,100 --> 00:05:29,300
left over and I don't think 
there was any particular second 

95
00:05:29,300 --> 00:05:34,100
wind that got into it as a 
commercial Venture 4gw and that 

96
00:05:34,100 --> 00:05:37,300
adds a certain degree of cash a 
right? 

97
00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,500
Because as a result, because I'm
a millennial, right? 

98
00:05:40,500 --> 00:05:44,200
I'm 32 years old, I was six 
years old, four years old. 

99
00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,500
Actually, for me, when Cal 
stores are released in 93, I was

100
00:05:47,500 --> 00:05:49,600
this was not relevant to me. 
I was not present for any of 

101
00:05:49,608 --> 00:05:52,800
this to take place, but as a 
result, they Came, this 

102
00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:58,100
forbidden thing, they became 
this Army that you heard about, 

103
00:05:58,100 --> 00:06:01,300
but you couldn't see the 
Miniatures were rare. 

104
00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:05,200
The collectors were even rarer. 
Most people, if they bothered 

105
00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:06,700
with them, they had to convert 
them. 

106
00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,200
The hell Cannon came out in the 
late 90s with three chaos, to 

107
00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,300
off crewmen as a nod to the old 
concept. 

108
00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,000
But that was it. 
And so for a lot of the people 

109
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,100
who are fans of it now, it's 
because it's a bit hit, right? 

110
00:06:19,100 --> 00:06:22,700
It's because you wouldn't face 
them on a table even in A normal

111
00:06:22,700 --> 00:06:25,600
fourth edition, fifth edition, 
fandom group. 

112
00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,500
And that's what kind of brings 
us so much energy and freshness,

113
00:06:29,500 --> 00:06:32,800
right? 
Because Jack always says to be 

114
00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,800
into it as an army, you have to 
do quite a lot of the work 

115
00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,200
yourself. 
Which automatically means that 

116
00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,700
when you meet a chaos tour fan 
up till the present day, you're 

117
00:06:41,700 --> 00:06:44,400
meeting someone who's putting a 
little bit of extra effort and a

118
00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,700
little bit of extra reading done
little bit of digging around the

119
00:06:46,707 --> 00:06:47,500
edges. 
Right? 

120
00:06:47,500 --> 00:06:50,400
Saw the, the main thrust of the 
armies and thought there's more 

121
00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,700
to this. 
And that's what I think 

122
00:06:53,700 --> 00:06:55,300
attracts. 
The kind of people that keep a 

123
00:06:55,300 --> 00:06:57,500
community going all the way 
through the end of the world and

124
00:06:57,500 --> 00:06:59,800
of the world was no big news for
Warhammer. 

125
00:07:00,100 --> 00:07:04,400
Chaos dwarfs fans because fancy 
battle had already written ass 

126
00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,300
out, right? 
We had an army lists in 6th 

127
00:07:07,300 --> 00:07:10,200
edition ravening hordes nothing 
else. 

128
00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:12,500
And then Tamra, can Throne of 
chaos. 

129
00:07:12,500 --> 00:07:16,000
Introduced a new range from 
Forge World, but it's always 

130
00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,300
around the margins and I think 
that breeds are kind of 

131
00:07:18,300 --> 00:07:20,900
stubbornness to the culture. 
That's very Dwarven. 

132
00:07:22,300 --> 00:07:25,300
And I think that's one of the 
reasons why we have such love. 

133
00:07:25,300 --> 00:07:28,600
When we come to stuff like 
especially here, I haven't, 

134
00:07:28,700 --> 00:07:30,100
right? 
Because you read that era of 

135
00:07:30,100 --> 00:07:32,500
white dwarf. 
It's the Contemporary era of 

136
00:07:32,500 --> 00:07:34,500
white dwarf. 
A lot of us grew up with and 

137
00:07:34,700 --> 00:07:37,000
where we found out about the 
chaos to offs and then suddenly 

138
00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:44,100
had them snatched away. 
Yeah, I've I'm hoping to either 

139
00:07:44,100 --> 00:07:47,500
find a store player to 
experience cast wolves in the 

140
00:07:47,508 --> 00:07:54,400
tabletop or if I'm very lucky 
and get get some kind of chaos 

141
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,400
tour Farm even because looking 
at looking at the Army lists you

142
00:07:57,407 --> 00:08:01,100
know back in 93 and I've talked 
to you about that, just off air 

143
00:08:01,100 --> 00:08:03,200
before that. 
You know, it's a bloody 

144
00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:07,300
beautiful book, The Cars will 
it's gorgeous, it mean, it's all

145
00:08:07,300 --> 00:08:10,800
in color, which is quite, you 
know, for that error. 

146
00:08:11,700 --> 00:08:13,900
Though, generally, all black and
white, they had a lot of color 

147
00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,900
color plates in the book. 
They had a wonderful battle 

148
00:08:16,900 --> 00:08:20,000
Report with them featuring 
against the High Elves. 

149
00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:22,600
There's some nice background 
information to them. 

150
00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,600
So really, it's very much a 
complete, you know, Army book in

151
00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,200
relation. 
If you compare it to all the 

152
00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:33,299
other RV, other books of that 
time and that, that error, but 

153
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,200
Yeah. 
There's there's you know even 

154
00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,700
the book itself is quite rare to
find online. 

155
00:08:39,799 --> 00:08:43,000
You know you don't see that many
books you know for sale or 

156
00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:45,200
what-have-you. 
Yeah let alone the mirror tell 

157
00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,400
me about it. 
Yeah, it's a common thing. 

158
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:54,000
I actually don't have a physical
copy and the reason for that is 

159
00:08:54,800 --> 00:09:00,100
I feel adequately looked after 
by the fan projects so as I get 

160
00:09:00,100 --> 00:09:03,900
back into it I'm going to be a 
war hammer armies project. 

161
00:09:04,300 --> 00:09:07,700
A tradition person to start with
with the next thing that I do, 

162
00:09:09,100 --> 00:09:14,000
but there's a lot to the 
existence of the army that is 

163
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,700
tied entirely to the content, 
you find in the Army book and 

164
00:09:18,700 --> 00:09:20,900
it's a game of two halves with 
the collection, right? 

165
00:09:20,900 --> 00:09:24,500
Because you have this core 
concept of these Mesopotamian 

166
00:09:24,500 --> 00:09:28,700
chaos Dwarfs with these ringlet 
beards and these big hats and 

167
00:09:28,700 --> 00:09:31,600
these bullet imagery and all 
that kind of stuff. 

168
00:09:31,700 --> 00:09:34,000
And then along with them comes 
their public. 

169
00:09:34,100 --> 00:09:38,000
Goblin slave auxiliaries, right?
Who are so disgusting. 

170
00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,800
And distasteful to the other 
greenskins, they can't be taken 

171
00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:46,200
in a green-skinned army and then
you also have green skin slaves 

172
00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:49,800
as an army list option, right? 
Which opens up a lot of 

173
00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:54,600
different types of play because 
you can run this as a kind of 

174
00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,600
classic Dwarven gun line with a 
lot of stubborn infantry. 

175
00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:03,400
Can't be moved, you know sit 
back artillery and casters 

176
00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:06,100
hiding behind. 
Slow-moving infantry that you 

177
00:10:06,108 --> 00:10:10,800
don't really bother to advance 
or you can go with a much higher

178
00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,100
risk, green-skinned horde 
strategy, which, you know, there

179
00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:16,600
are special rules with animosity
because of the way, the 

180
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,900
hobgoblins affect the others, 
there's lots of things you can 

181
00:10:19,900 --> 00:10:24,100
do with with the magic and you 
can end up running, you know, 

182
00:10:24,100 --> 00:10:26,600
two armies that are both from 
the same Army book that are 

183
00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,600
radically different physically, 
radically different than a lot 

184
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,700
of what you find. 
And also I think a lot of 

185
00:10:32,700 --> 00:10:36,300
collectors they are Secondary 
fans of a green-skinned faction.

186
00:10:36,300 --> 00:10:39,600
So for me, it's been goblins, 
common goblins, not night 

187
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:45,000
goblins. 
I've got about got about 700 

188
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:50,300
goblins, painting in, based not 
painting, it makes chunks. 

189
00:10:50,600 --> 00:11:02,600
Then that's what I would say 
that because, you know, how it 

190
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,000
is with a metal collection. 
You want to One of each Scopes, 

191
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,200
right? 
Yeah, and I think that's been my

192
00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:10,000
approach to it. 
Lots of them are from 

193
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,200
third-party, right? 
Lots of them are from Kev Adams.

194
00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:17,500
After he left, GW and stuff, 
like that, and then I've got and

195
00:11:17,500 --> 00:11:20,000
of course, all the hobgoblins 
from the chaos porphyria were 

196
00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,800
metal. 
Then I've got plenty of plastic 

197
00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,100
doing me wrong, you know, I got 
semantic plastic mixed in there.

198
00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:30,600
I've got the classic with maybe 
three of the classic common 

199
00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,000
Goblin regiment and then some 
battle for sculpt us. 

200
00:11:34,100 --> 00:11:37,200
Yes. 
Yeah, out of a skull pass night 

201
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,900
goblins and stuff like that, but
they just build up over time. 

202
00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,500
Yes. 
Well and I think it's one of 

203
00:11:43,508 --> 00:11:46,800
those things worth noting that 
if you do find a chaos fourth 

204
00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,000
player, they will often be 
playing with them, 20 minutes, 

205
00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,800
right? 
Because yeah, concept has been 

206
00:11:52,500 --> 00:11:57,300
so resilient and so popular. 
The tons of third-party 

207
00:11:57,300 --> 00:12:00,300
suppliers are said, well, if DW 
is not going to occupy, this 

208
00:12:00,300 --> 00:12:04,000
hill will sell you something and
they come and go over the years.

209
00:12:05,100 --> 00:12:07,900
And obviously GW return to it 
with the time account for 12, 

210
00:12:07,900 --> 00:12:12,400
resin kale scoffs, but 
fundamentally rooted in this 90s

211
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:17,100
concept is an aesthetic. 
That is so distinctive that it 

212
00:12:17,100 --> 00:12:19,700
really plays out. 
What I'm just going to do Josh 

213
00:12:19,700 --> 00:12:24,700
is I might just share my screen 
and show you an image from PDF 

214
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,000
if that's all right. 
Yeah, sure, but I'll just share 

215
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,800
that you can share. 
Now, whatever you want to do 

216
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:35,300
that. 
So what we're looking at here in

217
00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:38,200
this image, which is one of the 
big full color ones you are 

218
00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,800
talking about, right? 
So what you're looking at here 

219
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:48,300
really is the whole range as it 
was in the 90s, almost, right? 

220
00:12:48,300 --> 00:12:51,400
There's one thing missing here 
and that's well, yeah, one thing

221
00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,900
missing here and that's 
hobgoblin archers for Archers 

222
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,900
because you've even got mixed 
bow and Axwell. 

223
00:12:57,900 --> 00:13:00,900
Friday's right. 
And here, you see the aesthetic 

224
00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:05,300
of the Army in all of its Glory.
Which Is those big hettich? 

225
00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:11,200
Down the front, big toe, almost 
as tall, as you know, a 

226
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,300
free-standing human, miniature, 
just with half the height being 

227
00:13:14,300 --> 00:13:17,900
hacked, it's about seven, sculpt
in each of those regiments to 

228
00:13:17,900 --> 00:13:21,300
command sections behind them, 
you've got these barefooted 

229
00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:23,900
hobgoblin. 
Ax men who are your basic chaff 

230
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,600
and then you've got hobgoblins 
on wolves, which fill your 

231
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:30,000
light, Cavalry rolls back. 
You got your heavy Cavalry which

232
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,600
are bulls centaurs. 
Now the idea with these guys is 

233
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,800
they've kind of been mutated by 
this minor chaos. 

234
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:40,300
God, Chip rules the kale stew of
sin and their half half. 

235
00:13:40,300 --> 00:13:44,500
Dwarf, half bull. 
You got two pieces of artillery.

236
00:13:44,500 --> 00:13:48,100
So the Earth Shaker which has 
been given a slightly less 

237
00:13:48,100 --> 00:13:50,900
impressive than it normally gets
position here on the side. 

238
00:13:50,900 --> 00:13:53,900
But is one of the most 
sought-after kids, you got a 

239
00:13:53,900 --> 00:13:56,400
rocket cannon, effectively 
called a death Shrieker. 

240
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,200
That's the light artillery 
piece, and you got two monsters,

241
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,600
you got a flying bull. 
Great Taurus. 

242
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,400
And that's what your lord rides 
around on and you got a lamb a 

243
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,100
suit, which is based on an 
ancient. 

244
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,100
Isn't Sumerian mythological 
beast. 

245
00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:10,700
That's, you know, basically, an 
animal with the head of a person

246
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,600
with a big beard and a big 
mutated chaos, dwarf face, and 

247
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,200
then your sorcerer rides around 
on that. 

248
00:14:19,500 --> 00:14:21,300
And what's interesting about 
lamassu from a rules 

249
00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:23,400
perspective, is also wizard 
itself. 

250
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:28,000
As in the animal, which adds a 
little bit of spice and this was

251
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,500
it, what you're looking at? 
In this picture is pretty much 

252
00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:34,500
everything that GW made in that 
Mesopotamian wave of chaos 

253
00:14:34,500 --> 00:14:36,200
water, and this is what people 
want to. 

254
00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:40,100
Act Right, 7, sculpture 
sculpture, bull sent or two 

255
00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:44,400
pieces of artillery, two 
monsters with riders and then 

256
00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:46,700
some green skins and some basic 
infantry. 

257
00:14:46,900 --> 00:14:49,200
And so I think one of the other 
things that appeals to people 

258
00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,900
about it is if you want this 
picture, right? 

259
00:14:53,100 --> 00:15:01,000
It's going to cost you. 
Yeah, I got one of most of these

260
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,800
things over time. 
You'll find it, but it's 

261
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:08,700
achievable right more. 
So than say, I want one of every

262
00:15:08,700 --> 00:15:11,300
Regiment of renowned from Dogs 
of War classic, right? 

263
00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:15,400
And so, I think the other thing 
about this as a side project, is

264
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,100
it appeals to a lot of those 
middle Hammer people who are 

265
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,600
sometimes because I sent by 
itself Miniatures, right? 

266
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,800
Sometimes I get contacted by 
guys who are like What I would 

267
00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,500
love is, I'd love to create this
picture, right? 

268
00:15:26,500 --> 00:15:28,600
And then you work backwards from
that and you say what's 

269
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,300
possible? 
What's reasonable, what's 

270
00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:33,300
realistic? 
And it's one of the first 

271
00:15:33,300 --> 00:15:35,100
things, a lot of people want to 
talk about, but yeah, you're 

272
00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:36,900
absolutely right. 
It's very, I mean if you're 

273
00:15:36,900 --> 00:15:40,400
looking at this picture, you're 
looking at the aesthetic that 

274
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,200
you're describing is fair is not
Josh. 

275
00:15:42,500 --> 00:15:44,100
Well, I think so mate. 
Yeah I was looking at today. 

276
00:15:44,100 --> 00:15:48,400
I thought, you know that's 
that's that's what is that 3,000

277
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,500
points, isn't it? 
It's like, it's probably pretty 

278
00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:53,000
much. 
It's pretty much. 

279
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,300
It pretty much has every single 
figure that I probably would 

280
00:15:57,300 --> 00:16:00,400
want to field in a cast or phone
anyway. 

281
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,600
And it didn't actually have all 
the the cuz I've got ya, because

282
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,200
one of the appeals that, as you 
said is, you can combine your 

283
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,400
green skins with the chaos 
doors, which is, I think it's a 

284
00:16:08,408 --> 00:16:11,800
wonderful thing as I'm a 
green-skinned player. 

285
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,600
So, you know, I think it is 
achievable because if I take out

286
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,500
for say, if I take out the I 
don't know. 

287
00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:24,900
The dwarf Warriors, for example,
and replace those with some 

288
00:16:24,900 --> 00:16:28,900
black aux and actually count the
hobgoblins and I replace those 

289
00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:32,000
with goblins. 
Well, then, you know, that that 

290
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,500
collection becomes even more 
achievable for me. 

291
00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:37,600
I think, you know, financially 
am I I know it's quite the quite

292
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,700
rare and quite expensive, but 
there are means and ways of 

293
00:16:40,700 --> 00:16:43,700
actually getting those models. 
You know, if you really try hard

294
00:16:43,700 --> 00:16:46,200
enough and, you know, look in 
the right places, which we can 

295
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,700
probably touch on later for 
people. 

296
00:16:47,700 --> 00:16:51,500
Those for people who are sort of
looking Miniatures, like these 

297
00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:54,300
nowadays. 
But yeah. 

298
00:16:54,300 --> 00:16:57,500
I mean, you know what, and the 
other Advantage I think Ford 

299
00:16:57,500 --> 00:17:00,600
cars doors with appeals to me, 
to is like being a dwarf player.

300
00:17:01,700 --> 00:17:04,200
You know, the cast was sort of 
flip that on that on its head. 

301
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,400
And you've got Calvary, you've 
got fast-moving, regiments, 

302
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,099
you've got monsters, you've got 
magic, you've got some pretty 

303
00:17:10,099 --> 00:17:12,900
cool unique war machines as 
well. 

304
00:17:13,300 --> 00:17:17,700
So that then itself becomes very
attractive to me as an army to 

305
00:17:17,700 --> 00:17:19,599
play on the on the battlefield 
as well. 

306
00:17:21,099 --> 00:17:24,300
Yeah, and one of the things you 
find as well, is because we've 

307
00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:27,700
had fan-made rules for such a 
long time that the community has

308
00:17:27,708 --> 00:17:30,900
been kicking around for. 
What is it coming up on 25 

309
00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:36,200
years, or whatever? 
You're looking at a community 

310
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,000
that if you join it, you can 
kind of name your poison, right?

311
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,000
So if an aspiring new member 
wants to join the disc order 

312
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,500
wants to join the Forum. 
What, you're going to find is a 

313
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:50,400
really accepting group of people
who are going to Issei. 

314
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:51,300
Okay. 
Cool. 

315
00:17:51,300 --> 00:17:53,700
So chaos dwarfs. 
That's a concept that you can 

316
00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:55,200
interpret a hundred different 
ways. 

317
00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:58,700
You could be a vintage fan, you 
could be a fourth edition fan. 

318
00:17:58,900 --> 00:18:01,700
You can even be someone who 
wants to reach back before this 

319
00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:04,000
range into the Third Edition 
kail store. 

320
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:08,200
Such as I mentioned, we're very 
much mini chaos Warriors from 

321
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,000
the 80s, right? 
And and you can do all sorts of 

322
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,300
stuff and what are the things 
that we'll look at? 

323
00:18:15,300 --> 00:18:18,700
Later is some of the army blogs 
that the collectors and Painters

324
00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:21,500
on on the Forum. 
Fire have poured their heart and

325
00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:27,200
soul into but we're a community.
I think that has that big focus 

326
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,900
on making the collection work 
for the collector, in whatever 

327
00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:33,500
Direction. 
They want to take it because we 

328
00:18:33,500 --> 00:18:37,000
can't afford to be too choosy 
because we're on the outside. 

329
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:40,200
All right. 
So this is not a group of 

330
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,700
players who have a problem 
saying, okay, how do you want to

331
00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:44,200
do this? 
Okay. 

332
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,400
You want to do it 4th edition? 
Here at Hammer great. 

333
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,700
Fantastic. 
Let's go away let's scour the 

334
00:18:48,700 --> 00:18:51,400
list it's come back. 
Back, bring some proxies, bring 

335
00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:54,400
some original vintage, have a 
nice chat about the army that 

336
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,800
you're up against from the other
person, talk about what era of 

337
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,000
Warhammer, you're trying to 
evoke, right? 

338
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,200
And then have an experience 
based on that. 

339
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:06,600
That is by its very nature, not 
type of competitive because this

340
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,900
is an army that's been outside 
of any kind of gaming meta for 

341
00:19:10,900 --> 00:19:13,400
almost the entire generation of 
its existence, right? 

342
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:18,000
And most of, most of our lives. 
But that said, I think one of 

343
00:19:18,008 --> 00:19:20,000
the other things that's really 
interesting about this group, 

344
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:22,200
I'm just going to scroll through
because this is from the battle 

345
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:27,300
report in the middle of the the 
Weimar armies but is it does 

346
00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:29,800
carry with it for those who are 
gaming fans. 

347
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,000
Some some interesting Rules by 
Rick Priestley, which is 

348
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:38,100
basically shotguns the castle 
with Blunderbuss takes the role 

349
00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:40,600
of the ranged infantry, the 
basic range, she got some 

350
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,300
hobgoblin arches. 
If you want some chef, and 

351
00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:45,000
that's fine. 
But one of the things that you 

352
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,100
will find, if you are 
interested, is that you've got 

353
00:19:47,100 --> 00:19:49,800
this fire zone box? 
Where bye. 

354
00:19:49,900 --> 00:19:53,700
By your regiment will just kind 
of unleash a big hail into 

355
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:56,600
whatever's in front of it, 
whether it be friendly or Foe 

356
00:19:58,100 --> 00:20:04,000
and that kind of anarchic vibe 
of we're going to do a lot of 

357
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,500
damage and then we're going to 
pick up the pieces afterwards 

358
00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:09,700
and figure out how much of our 
army is left standing. 

359
00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:12,400
There's a theme that goes 
through the whole Force because,

360
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,000
you know, your Sorcerers because
their dwarves, they should be 

361
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,400
using magic. 
They've exposed themselves to 

362
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:19,800
chaos. 
They turn to Stone. 

363
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:22,700
Right. 
Gradually over time within chaos

364
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:26,000
to a culture, if you use mint 
and magic and that means there's

365
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,200
rules in. 
Therefore, if you miss cast your

366
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,600
sorcerer might end up as a 
useless lump of granite. 

367
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:32,900
On the other hand, he might do a
hell of a lot of damage. 

368
00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:36,100
So it's an army that fits with 
what you're saying. 

369
00:20:36,100 --> 00:20:39,100
When you talk about the classic 
green skin collector, wants to 

370
00:20:39,100 --> 00:20:42,300
go in a new and interesting 
Direction because if you're a 

371
00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:44,600
green-skinned play, you're 
already comfortable animosity, 

372
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:45,800
right? 
You're already comfortable with 

373
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,400
coming to play and creating 
chaos and maybe a bit of a mess.

374
00:20:49,900 --> 00:20:52,200
And then just enjoying yourself 
while you do that. 

375
00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:56,200
And the last thing I'll say, is 
that if you go through the 

376
00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:01,200
rules, you'll find you can field
full-on regiments of your green 

377
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,600
skin. 
So you can have a goblin 

378
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,000
regiment. 
You can have an old regiment. 

379
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,900
Most importantly you can have 
Blackhawks and the reason you 

380
00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:09,200
can have Blackhawks is because 
calcium also invented the 

381
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:10,500
backups. 
Yeah. 

382
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,800
So they created them which adds 
a little bit of extra flavor and

383
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,900
spice because you know you end 
up with Pages like this of 

384
00:21:17,900 --> 00:21:22,000
classic metal or I'm sure you 
actually, I think have quite a 

385
00:21:22,008 --> 00:21:24,200
few of these days. 
Do I have all of those except 

386
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:26,000
maybe one with a dagger in the 
ax? 

387
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,000
Yeah. 
And, and you see these guys kind

388
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,300
of popping up in here because, 
you know, it's a collection 

389
00:21:33,300 --> 00:21:35,800
where it changes Direction. 
Hopefully through you, you might

390
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:39,000
get done with the chaos Norse, 
you want to do and think, okay, 

391
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,800
now I want to go in my own 
Direction suddenly it becomes 

392
00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:46,600
this green skin project along 
the sides, and at the same time,

393
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:48,800
you have a lot of flexibility 
with a large collection, which 

394
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,000
is as I mentioned, Mentions, 
what I do, right? 

395
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,400
I got a lot of green skins way 
too many green skins but for me 

396
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,600
that's part of the fun is being 
able to say, what am I going to 

397
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,700
do? 
When I meet my friend, my going 

398
00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:02,500
to take goblins, we gonna do 
chaos tour forces chaos to off. 

399
00:22:02,500 --> 00:22:07,600
So we have a lot of fun with it.
You can even do like, like a 

400
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,100
rebellion game where you have 
like some there was someone 

401
00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:12,700
playing the green skins with 
this, the cows towards I've seen

402
00:22:12,700 --> 00:22:15,400
better because I don't actually 
know until today when I was 

403
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,300
reading through the book that 
the Black Hawks were created by 

404
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,000
the cows stores. 
That's a very interesting take 

405
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:24,100
and turn on things, isn't it? 
Yeah, it did not go. 

406
00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:26,300
Well yeah didn't know. 
That's right. 

407
00:22:26,300 --> 00:22:30,500
They've created their own enemy 
really having that and I think 

408
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,400
for me so one of the projects 
I'm working on just privately in

409
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,800
the background, right? 
Is I Have a long-running fiction

410
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,200
series on the board and one of 
the things that we're gearing up

411
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,400
to do after our first, can I 
say, competitive is not 

412
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,800
competitive but our first mass 
gaming event that we're going to

413
00:22:47,808 --> 00:22:51,100
have in Holland in April, of 
next year, we're all going to 

414
00:22:51,108 --> 00:22:53,600
meet together blocks of the 
coastal of guys, from the board 

415
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,200
is we're starting to look at 
narrative and how to play with 

416
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:03,400
all those Concepts and say, 
okay, how do you make a campaign

417
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:07,500
series that covers? 
The green skins, as they switch 

418
00:23:07,500 --> 00:23:10,700
sides and the Rebellion is it 
happens and all that kind of 

419
00:23:10,708 --> 00:23:13,000
stuff. 
And really, it's a community of 

420
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,600
people who are almost more into 
it for that kind of fun, 

421
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:22,000
narrative clay, which I think is
a good thing because there's a 

422
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,700
there's if you want to play 
fourth you want to play, you 

423
00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:26,600
know, early editions and stuff 
like that. 

424
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,000
Then it needs to be people who 
get it. 

425
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,500
They get that. 
This is more about having fun 

426
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:35,600
then it is about making an 
ironclad list and That's one of 

427
00:23:35,608 --> 00:23:37,400
the things that here I have. 
It does really well as a 

428
00:23:37,408 --> 00:23:40,600
community. 
Absolutely, you don't don't 

429
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,800
don't play the old games for 
competitive play it just does 

430
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,500
not work. 
You'll end up making more 

431
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:48,900
enemies and friends. 
I think when you play it that 

432
00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:51,900
way, so yeah we just did like 
the drafting system with the 

433
00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:53,900
drafting of the items and that 
kind of thing. 

434
00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:57,700
You know, we have like really 
sort of fluffy narrative kind of

435
00:23:57,700 --> 00:24:01,800
scenarios when we can and it 
just makes the game so much more

436
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:03,200
enjoyable, so much more 
memorable. 

437
00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:05,500
So that's what it's all about, 
really, isn't it? 

438
00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:08,700
But yeah, good pointed caps on 
the amount for the fourth 

439
00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:11,000
edition book, I think it's truly
one of those. 

440
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:13,500
Those are my books that people 
should have in their collection 

441
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:17,100
because it is, it is a Hidden 
Gem that's been lost and 

442
00:24:17,100 --> 00:24:20,200
forgotten. 
And but should not be should not

443
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,800
be forgotten in many ways 
because, yeah, I've overlooked 

444
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,400
it. 
But sadly have regretted it now 

445
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,800
because it's got some really 
good content in there. 

446
00:24:30,300 --> 00:24:34,100
Yeah, I think it's it's one of 
the kind of Rites of Passage in 

447
00:24:34,100 --> 00:24:36,700
the chaos or Community when 
people join us in there 

448
00:24:36,700 --> 00:24:39,900
exploring and they're still 
fresh, maybe they had a podcast 

449
00:24:39,900 --> 00:24:43,500
or they saw one of our YouTube 
collaborations or whatever and 

450
00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:45,400
they're like, I heard about this
seem to recall. 

451
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,600
I want to find out more and they
get hit with the price tag. 

452
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,800
And and I think, you know, those
of us who are old hands in this 

453
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,600
game, know how that's going to 
work, but one of the things that

454
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,900
surprises people because it's so
out of step with the other 

455
00:24:57,900 --> 00:25:01,500
vintage Warhammer, armies books 
is I said that the white dwarf 

456
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:05,200
presents, but the reason for the
price makes sense, when you 

457
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,600
think about it, right? 
Because this was a white dwarf 

458
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,300
presents production and 
therefore it was not treated as 

459
00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:13,300
a Prestige item, by most people 
who bought it. 

460
00:25:13,300 --> 00:25:16,100
If you think about classic or 
Hammer, all these books and why 

461
00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:18,900
they come back onto the market, 
they come back onto the market 

462
00:25:18,900 --> 00:25:21,500
because someone's got eight of 
them and they'll never use the 

463
00:25:21,508 --> 00:25:25,200
fourth edition one again, or 
someone hasn't done the whole be

464
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,000
for 20 years and opened a box. 
And it's a book they had when 

465
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:29,900
they were a kid, that doesn't 
mean anything to them anymore. 

466
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,400
Or you know, what do you talk 
about fourth edition Undead, 

467
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,700
which is a real collector's 
piece I think you probably 

468
00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:37,700
agree. 
Josh you're looking at something

469
00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:41,600
that there was a big print run 
and it was sold commercially as 

470
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:45,600
part of getting what 44 cents, 
you know, it came free. 

471
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,800
Most people who've got a copy, 
didn't keep their coffee because

472
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,300
it didn't have value to them. 
And it was for an army that fell

473
00:25:54,300 --> 00:25:57,300
out of use of a lot of relevance
and as a result, rather than 

474
00:25:57,700 --> 00:26:01,400
there being any problem nowadays
with And the problem that you've

475
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:07,000
got a supply and that's one of 
the reasons why it is not part 

476
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:12,100
of a lot of people's Collections
and I don't have it myself and I

477
00:26:12,100 --> 00:26:15,900
think I think I don't aspire to 
have it in many ways because the

478
00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:20,000
copies that you can get might 
very well be quite dinged up and

479
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,000
I prefer to interact with it as 
it is captured in aspic in the 

480
00:26:24,008 --> 00:26:28,400
PDF where it is kind of captured
for all time in all its Glory. 

481
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,700
But it is one of those things 
where every now and again on in 

482
00:26:32,700 --> 00:26:34,500
the community, someone will post
for that. 

483
00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:37,800
They've just got theirs. 
And and the thing everyone's 

484
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:42,500
thinking, is how much because 
it's one of those ones. 

485
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:46,800
And I really advise anyone he's 
a collector, if you see it at a 

486
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,000
price that doesn't hurt you snap
it up because I guarantee you, 

487
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:55,000
it's sold for more and and you 
might very well find that seller

488
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,800
if you're ever looking to buy or
trade. 

489
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,900
But if you do have it, just 
remember how valuable it is. 

490
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,900
If you get tempted to let go of 
it and if you ever want to find 

491
00:27:03,900 --> 00:27:06,600
a good place where it will find 
a good home, obviously Josh, 

492
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,800
what's copy? 
But equally you can find 

493
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,000
hundreds of people, I don't 
know. 

494
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,300
We've got we've got I would say,
we have about 150 200 guys on 

495
00:27:15,300 --> 00:27:20,600
this course and active posters 
versus lurkers on the Forum. 

496
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,300
You know, it's low triple 
digits, it's a great group of 

497
00:27:24,300 --> 00:27:26,400
people, but especially, because 
it's a group of people that know

498
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,100
how to get things done, when it 
comes to finding stuff, you'll 

499
00:27:29,100 --> 00:27:31,300
always find. 
People take something off your 

500
00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:33,100
hands. 
You always find people who will 

501
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,700
often to no personal benefit, 
help you find a vintage piece of

502
00:27:37,700 --> 00:27:40,400
you're looking for it. 
Providing you willing to be 

503
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,900
patient. 
All of the chaos to offensive 

504
00:27:42,900 --> 00:27:44,300
stuff. 
Can be found. 

505
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,700
That the most important thing to
remember, is patience is a hell 

506
00:27:47,700 --> 00:27:49,700
of a lot more important than 
eBay prices. 

507
00:27:50,900 --> 00:27:52,800
You're going to go to eBay, 
you're going to type in coughs, 

508
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,300
coughs. 
You're going to be upset by what

509
00:27:54,300 --> 00:27:56,700
you find, don't let that 
discourage you. 

510
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,400
We know where to find 
collections. 

511
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,700
That people want to let go of 
Minis that could easily be 

512
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:08,300
scrubbed of a dodgy paint job 
and all sorts of alternative 

513
00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:11,600
ways to scratch the itch and 
that's the kind of thing. 

514
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,900
You can only get from those 
communities that have been 

515
00:28:13,900 --> 00:28:15,500
plugging away in the background,
right? 

516
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:20,200
All right, well, I don't need to
go into the Discord in and then 

517
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,100
interact with some of the people
there to find out exactly. 

518
00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:27,100
Where can I find these hidden 
treasure gems that I can I can 

519
00:28:27,100 --> 00:28:32,000
pick up for a bargain price. 
But yeah, I recently painted 

520
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,200
one. 
I think I post up in your 

521
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,900
Discord actually of a the the 
the giant or the great tourist. 

522
00:28:37,900 --> 00:28:40,000
Is it a great for us? 
Great support. 

523
00:28:41,300 --> 00:28:44,200
Yeah, it's a wonderful model is 
the first person cast off of a 

524
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,800
painted. 
I really enjoyed the experience 

525
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,300
of painting it A, I hope I hope 
I can. 

526
00:28:50,300 --> 00:28:52,500
I can only hope that I can get 
to paint more of those in the 

527
00:28:52,508 --> 00:28:56,600
future for myself, and make it 
my own little Milan and little 

528
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,900
warband. 
Even if it's like a 2000 Point 

529
00:28:58,900 --> 00:29:01,400
Army, I'm quite happy. 
That's quite nice. 

530
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,500
It's sort of represents the 
chaos towards in every every 

531
00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:07,700
aspect, you know, got some 
Cabaret in there and got some 

532
00:29:07,700 --> 00:29:11,700
light infratry maybe and some 
you know some nice blunderbusses

533
00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:15,800
bring all the nice toys and yeah
you can have a good fun. 

534
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,800
I think there's I think Think I 
heard from one of my friends 

535
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,800
here in Japan is there's a guy 
who actually has a full fourth 

536
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,200
edition, cows Army. 
Some way here. 

537
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,100
I don't know where he is. 
I've never seen it, but I hope 

538
00:29:29,900 --> 00:29:31,500
together actually have a game 
with him. 

539
00:29:32,300 --> 00:29:38,000
That is so interesting because I
bet that, I don't know that guy,

540
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,000
but I bet that I've seen an 
image of him, right? 

541
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:45,600
And the reason is because there 
is a famous image, and he's got,

542
00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:50,400
he's it's a Japanese do he's got
a, he's got a whole classic, 

543
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,000
metal Hammer room, right? 
Set out. 

544
00:29:53,300 --> 00:29:57,900
One of the things is going. 
His wall is a war Master poster.

545
00:29:57,900 --> 00:30:00,500
Like a big war, must be C. 
And this image if you ever see 

546
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:02,100
it, I know there's another 
thing. 

547
00:30:02,500 --> 00:30:03,700
Yeah. 
Right. 

548
00:30:03,700 --> 00:30:07,600
And there's, there's a framed 
up, kale stew, or white white 

549
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:12,800
dwarf presents, chaos troughs 
poster and I don't know whether 

550
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,900
it's the book and he's put it in
a frame or whether it's an 

551
00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:21,900
individual image, but it did the
rounds because he bought to you,

552
00:30:21,900 --> 00:30:24,300
you know, about this thing where
you can get any white dwarf. 

553
00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:28,400
Cover painted on a t-shirt. 
Yeah, you getting green screened

554
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:29,300
out there me. 
Yeah. 

555
00:30:29,300 --> 00:30:33,100
Sorry, but it's our man. 
Our man is the, is the guy that 

556
00:30:33,100 --> 00:30:38,200
I met on Twitter and because 
most, most Japanese game is are 

557
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,100
all on Twitter. 
Made the not on Facebook than on

558
00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:43,400
any other right? 
Yeah, Twitter and he's got the 

559
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,800
most amazing collection of 
Miniatures. 

560
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,800
Like beautifully painted to 
round of fifth edition stuff 

561
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,000
because I think fifth edition 
was the first sort of addition 

562
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,900
that broke into Japan. 
Like through the translation. 

563
00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:01,500
I don't think he has a caste War
far me, sadly, but he's got 

564
00:31:01,500 --> 00:31:06,400
some, he's got, he's got chaos 
and High Elves and Empire. 

565
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,400
I think there is the three main 
enemies that he has maybe 

566
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,900
something else as well, but 
they're all beautifully painted,

567
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:17,500
really amazing. 
Yeah, I think it's one of those 

568
00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:23,100
things where like as time passes
that the relevance of the Army's

569
00:31:23,100 --> 00:31:28,700
going to shift because we're 
about to be and some of us are 

570
00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:30,900
excited and some of us are 
battening down the hatches. 

571
00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:36,000
And I'm both we're about to be 
bombarded by total war war 

572
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:41,100
hammer fans. 
It's not coming soon but it is 

573
00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:42,900
coming. 
And you had on what goes with. 

574
00:31:42,900 --> 00:31:44,800
So Tech is very big in that 
community. 

575
00:31:45,500 --> 00:31:48,300
But it is coming but yours all 
career to its point. 

576
00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:54,700
It is coming, I would say within
two years as a downloadable 

577
00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:59,700
content race pack that's going 
to be the first time that people

578
00:31:59,700 --> 00:32:02,400
have officially investigated the
case for concept. 

579
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:08,000
Since a tradition Tama can Forge
World range and I think it's 

580
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,600
fair to say that they're not 
just going to revisit the 8th 

581
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,400
Edition Tama conversion, they're
going to revisit everything that

582
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,000
you've got behind. 
You with the big hats and the 

583
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,100
Tauruses and all that kind of 
stuff, because if they want to 

584
00:32:19,100 --> 00:32:21,700
make a video game, they got to 
have all sorts of the units. 

585
00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:24,600
And Tom McCann was a limited 
list that was designed to be 

586
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,000
released in particular way. 
And then Forge world's went in a

587
00:32:27,008 --> 00:32:32,800
different direction and how that
affects the fandom is not clear.

588
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:41,100
But it will also do something to
define a restatement and a 

589
00:32:41,100 --> 00:32:44,100
remastering of something that 
got very little attention. 

590
00:32:45,100 --> 00:32:49,100
I don't know if you're aware of 
what they've done with vampire 

591
00:32:49,100 --> 00:32:49,900
Coast. 
Josh. 

592
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:52,800
Not not, not aware of that. 
Sorry. 

593
00:32:53,300 --> 00:32:58,500
Okay, so all I would say is, 
they took the concept of Luther 

594
00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:01,900
haakon which comes from vintage 
white dwarf articles, and they 

595
00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:05,200
turned it into a whole Army and 
a whole faction and invented 

596
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,700
units and mastered law and all 
this kind of stuff. 

597
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,400
And there isn't that much for 
chaos thoughts, right? 

598
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,500
You got the contents of the 
book, we've just been talking 

599
00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:17,100
about, then you got the contents
of talocan, afraid of chaos 

600
00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:19,600
which is released much later as 
part of their very dog, end of a

601
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,600
tradition before. 
Times that's it. 

602
00:33:22,900 --> 00:33:25,400
Those are the official sources. 
You got a couple of white dwarf 

603
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,600
articles in the 80s that aren't 
connected to the Mesopotamian 

604
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:31,500
concept and so creative 
assembly. 

605
00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:33,500
GW working together. 
They're going to come back to 

606
00:33:33,500 --> 00:33:37,100
this and I have no doubt that 
end as they evolve it towards 

607
00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:39,200
the old world, they're also 
going to change it to some 

608
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,500
degree. 
It's gonna be really interesting

609
00:33:41,500 --> 00:33:44,200
to see what they do. 
But also from a training 

610
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,500
perspective, it's going to be 
really interesting to understand

611
00:33:46,500 --> 00:33:48,900
whether the total value of 
classic 90s vintage. 

612
00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:51,800
Big hats is going to go up or 
whether It's going to go down. 

613
00:33:52,500 --> 00:33:56,800
Yeah, my, my Gambit would be 
probably going to go up. 

614
00:33:57,100 --> 00:34:00,800
Yeah, just because the number of
eyeballs alone is going to 

615
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:05,700
create new demand, and there is 
not a healthy type of Supply 

616
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,199
into the market. 
There is just stuff that people 

617
00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:11,600
never got around to painting 
stuff that comes from great 

618
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:13,600
Market sources and not much 
else. 

619
00:34:15,100 --> 00:34:17,800
And from that perspective, I 
think if you are interested, I 

620
00:34:17,808 --> 00:34:20,699
think get involved in the 
community now. 

621
00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:25,699
Because the community is still 
made up of those parochial 

622
00:34:25,699 --> 00:34:27,500
tabletop types. 
You know what I mean? 

623
00:34:27,500 --> 00:34:31,500
Who are excited by the concepts 
and they love the Vintage stuff,

624
00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:34,100
stuff like that. 
They haven't been drowned out by

625
00:34:34,300 --> 00:34:36,600
the fresh blood and we're 
excited about the fresh blood, 

626
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,699
but he's going to change things 
and move the storyline along. 

627
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,699
And there's something, you know,
from the 90s that that you guys 

628
00:34:43,699 --> 00:34:46,500
have done such a fantastic job 
of preserving and a whole level 

629
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:48,900
and the quite a lot of people in
our community, they want to 

630
00:34:48,900 --> 00:34:53,500
preserve slightly narrowly. 
On chaos dwarfs in itself 

631
00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:55,900
because it's a concept that's 
been battered by The Winds of 

632
00:34:55,900 --> 00:34:59,800
time. 
Well, okay nice. 

633
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,900
Yeah. 
Now personally speaking I've 

634
00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:09,000
never played the the computer 
game but I can I can sense from 

635
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,600
the podcast of listen from your 
you guys there that it seems to 

636
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,800
be. 
Yeah, it's exciting people and 

637
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,100
building a bit of hype there. 
So I hope it will fulfill the 

638
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,600
dreams and wishes of all the 
cast of players out there 

639
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,000
including yourself and yeah, I 
would say maybe it definitely it

640
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,900
will Like up sales might like 
you know the prices will just go

641
00:35:30,900 --> 00:35:33,900
up through the roof if they're 
not already, then they're going 

642
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:36,100
to be, you know, either already 
pretty. 

643
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:42,100
Yeah. 
But there was a 3D printed 

644
00:35:42,100 --> 00:35:46,500
version of the is this type of 
fourth edition Army that some 

645
00:35:46,500 --> 00:35:49,900
person had done and you probably
know who I'm talking about but I

646
00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:55,100
can't remember the name of it. 
So the concepts been visited 

647
00:35:55,100 --> 00:35:56,900
quite a lot of times. 
Yeah. 

648
00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,500
And and it continues to inspire 
people because there's so much 

649
00:36:01,500 --> 00:36:04,600
Mesopotamian stuff to drawn to 
take it in your own Direction. 

650
00:36:05,100 --> 00:36:06,400
So there are lots of different 
ranges. 

651
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,400
What I would say without wanting
to get either of them in trouble

652
00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:17,400
with the IP belief is that if 
you like the Mesopotamian aspect

653
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:22,100
and you, you you want something 
epic and you know, kind of 

654
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:26,100
ziggurats and demons and all 
that kind of thing. 

655
00:36:26,100 --> 00:36:28,100
Then there's a maker called Lost
Kingdom minute. 

656
00:36:28,300 --> 00:36:33,000
Is now here I have my fans will 
also know Lost Kingdom because 

657
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,000
they make a fantastic set of 
britannians. 

658
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,600
They make a fantastic set of 
wood elves. 

659
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,500
The guys digital sculpture 
operating skip digital sculptor 

660
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:47,000
operating out of Spain and he's 
known for the massive epic, 

661
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:51,900
sweeping nature of what he does,
but it isn't quite on the fourth

662
00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:54,600
edition end. 
And since we're here with you 

663
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,600
Josh, the the supplier that I 
think fits the fourth Edition 

664
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,500
version of the aesthetic. 
Best is a guy called fables El 

665
00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:08,600
Sol fa B yields edia type that 
into Google, you'll find him and

666
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,200
fabbs is great because personal 
use in our community. 

667
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:14,000
So we know really well, we've 
met your kingdom or at least 

668
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,600
digitally met and we've 
interviewed and but you know, 

669
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,800
he's off doing all sorts of 
ranges but Fabs has a love for 

670
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,000
the big hats in the hobgoblins 
as they were presented. 

671
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,800
Back in the 90s and Ferb's of 
stuff. 

672
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,100
He has a patreon that supports 
him in his creative. 

673
00:37:28,300 --> 00:37:33,200
Pretty gives the stl's out free,
so if if you are, he's a 

674
00:37:33,207 --> 00:37:35,000
passionate guy. 
But then also where the kind of 

675
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:40,100
community that probably puts 
more behind him on patreon 

676
00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:43,800
precisely because we wouldn't 
have to, you know, what I mean. 

677
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,400
Even someone can't or doesn't 
choose to, they still get to 

678
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,400
enjoy the Miniatures, and grow 
the community. 

679
00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:52,000
And as a result that generates a
lot of Goodwill, that makes a 

680
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:53,800
lot of people really happy to 
interact with them. 

681
00:37:55,100 --> 00:37:58,100
The other option, people have if
they want physical Miniatures is

682
00:37:58,100 --> 00:38:00,700
a Guy called Russian alternative
is named Sergei. 

683
00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:03,600
You can find Russian sensitive. 
Again, if you're a classic 

684
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,400
fantasy fan, you might have seen
Russian alternative before he 

685
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,200
does stuff. 
That's not kill sports, but I 

686
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,500
think it's fair to say that his 
infernal Dwarfs of fire. 

687
00:38:11,500 --> 00:38:16,200
Can, you know, I believe they're
called range, is, is his biggest

688
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,200
and probably one of his tent 
poles at this point. 

689
00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,600
And there, you can find all 
takes on that aesthetic, that 

690
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,100
you're seeing on the cover of 
the book, right there. 

691
00:38:26,100 --> 00:38:30,300
You know, people they'll make a 
A Taurus because I can take it 

692
00:38:30,300 --> 00:38:33,000
in the right direction. 
Oh, speaking of horses, you can 

693
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,700
also find similar minute she's 
on Skype or which is a famous 

694
00:38:36,700 --> 00:38:40,400
polish maker SC IBO are. 
And if you're listening to this,

695
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,800
in November of twenty 
Twenty-One, he's actually got a 

696
00:38:42,808 --> 00:38:45,700
Black Friday sale on right now, 
that makes this price as a bit 

697
00:38:45,700 --> 00:38:47,600
better than they normally are 
because they're quite extreme 

698
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,600
but fundamentally. 
You know, Fabs is the person 

699
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,900
you're thinking of Josh because 
Fabs is the guy who is set out 

700
00:38:53,900 --> 00:38:58,300
to say I liked it the way that 
it was actually people can Take 

701
00:38:58,300 --> 00:39:00,300
it in their own Direction. 
They can make it Grimmer and 

702
00:39:00,300 --> 00:39:02,800
darker and more evil. 
All this kind of stuff, but I 

703
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:07,200
kind of like the proportions. 
I like the big goofy face, but 

704
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,000
be hats on the hobgoblins. 
Let's just do that again. 

705
00:39:11,300 --> 00:39:14,800
He's done a fantastic job of it.
I don't have any yet that's 

706
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,700
because I don't print. 
I got make to print who say they

707
00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:19,700
come out? 
Really great. 

708
00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:25,000
I don't know whether that's 
something that you guys in in, 

709
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,300
chronic Malden and the kind of 
Gaming Community that Sits 

710
00:39:28,300 --> 00:39:32,300
around hero Hammer I don't know 
if printed minis or something 

711
00:39:32,300 --> 00:39:35,800
that I see too often in the 
articles that you guys have. 

712
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,100
Is it a big thing that you're 
into? 

713
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,500
It's not because but I think 
it's just becoming a more of an 

714
00:39:41,500 --> 00:39:43,900
inevitable thing thing that's 
going to happen. 

715
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,700
You know, I think this the 
scanning the original models and

716
00:39:48,700 --> 00:39:50,900
putting them out has become more
controversial. 

717
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:58,600
But but I think for creators 
like like him That are creating 

718
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,500
sort of the the fourth edition 
mistake. 

719
00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:04,000
The night is aesthetic and 
having new ranges, I think. 

720
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:05,800
Yeah, why not? 
I mean that's that's that's I 

721
00:40:05,808 --> 00:40:07,900
think that's wonderful. 
That people are still doing 

722
00:40:07,900 --> 00:40:09,300
that. 
I mean it really amazed me when 

723
00:40:09,300 --> 00:40:14,400
I saw what he was doing and the 
style that he was doing it in 

724
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,900
the quality of the Miniatures. 
Look really, really nice. 

725
00:40:18,100 --> 00:40:22,900
And for the first time, I found 
something that I thought, you 

726
00:40:22,900 --> 00:40:26,100
know, I'd be tempted just to 
just to grab a few of those just

727
00:40:26,100 --> 00:40:28,800
paint them up to see what they 
look like, because yeah. 

728
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:33,400
I love my mental models. 
You know, you know, I'd love to 

729
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,600
get the originals but if they're
just so financially unattainable

730
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,600
then this is a wonderful 
alternative and I hope he does 

731
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,500
more range of different models. 
Like the fourth edition dwarf 

732
00:40:44,500 --> 00:40:48,700
range for example which for some
people oh, maybe just way out of

733
00:40:48,707 --> 00:40:53,000
their reach financially, where 
if he could design a range that 

734
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,500
match the aesthetic of the of 
them raw to dwarves and the 

735
00:40:56,500 --> 00:41:00,300
Citadel dwarves that period, 
Then I think you'd find a bigger

736
00:41:00,300 --> 00:41:03,800
fan base, you know, and he did, 
like the Empire, or he did 

737
00:41:05,900 --> 00:41:10,700
things like the lot of the cow 
stuff like beastmen and cows 

738
00:41:10,700 --> 00:41:13,800
Warriors, and that kind of thing
that show just extremely 

739
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,600
expensive if you want the 
original stuff now, Yeah, it's 

740
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,600
not kind of. 
Yeah and I think there's so many

741
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:27,100
different ways to skin that cat 
as it were Brian because you can

742
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:31,000
you can approach the fourth 
edition aesthetic and say I 

743
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:32,500
would like to buy these as they 
were. 

744
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,400
You can approach it. 
And say I would like to find 

745
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:40,800
makers of stl's who are inspired
by that era and have that Focus.

746
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,200
You can find people who are, 
like, I want something that will

747
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,400
proxy whether it be from 
historical, or Wherever else 

748
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,700
that I can then converts up with
a few, you know, judicious bits 

749
00:41:50,700 --> 00:41:53,600
of work. 
I think the thing that matters 

750
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,600
and that I found. 
So great when communicating with

751
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,800
and hell. 
And all you guys is, as, with 

752
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:05,300
our community, it's one where 
you come with a concept and the 

753
00:42:05,300 --> 00:42:08,000
people you meet will all have a 
different thing that can help 

754
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,600
you to realize, right? 
And so printing is not for me. 

755
00:42:12,700 --> 00:42:15,300
Personally running a resin 
printer isn't practical with my 

756
00:42:15,300 --> 00:42:20,400
house which is Is two stories up
a building, so airflow with a 

757
00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:22,200
devoting, a room to a resin 
printer. 

758
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,300
You know, that's not something 
for this stage of my life. 

759
00:42:25,700 --> 00:42:29,800
But my friends who have them 
swear by them, right? 

760
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,800
And the ground that they sink 
into their printer is, is cash 

761
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,400
that I spend on other people 
doing that work. 

762
00:42:36,500 --> 00:42:39,200
So it's about what you want to 
get out of it and what your 

763
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,300
goals are. 
But I do definitely think that 

764
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:48,100
as time passes, you see a lot of
these people To the old 

765
00:42:48,100 --> 00:42:51,200
Warhammer fantasy crowd, who I 
think it's fair to say, you 

766
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,100
know, our amateur group, we've 
got quite Deep Pockets, right? 

767
00:42:54,100 --> 00:42:58,100
They're willing to pay and I 
think that's what's brought GW 

768
00:42:58,100 --> 00:43:01,700
back around to the old world and
quite how the old world does, 

769
00:43:01,700 --> 00:43:03,300
and what it means. 
And what the Miniatures that 

770
00:43:03,300 --> 00:43:05,300
are, that relate to it, and all 
this kind of stuff, we don't 

771
00:43:05,300 --> 00:43:07,600
know. 
And we'll have to find out. 

772
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,800
I've been meaning to ask, I 
mean, you guys very much, you 

773
00:43:12,100 --> 00:43:16,800
focus on this era specifically. 
So I would imagine in your T, 

774
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,600
the old world doesn't really 
register on the radar, a huge 

775
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,500
amount other than the Miniatures
that it might release because 

776
00:43:23,500 --> 00:43:25,200
you're going to stick with the 
rule set that you enjoy. 

777
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:28,300
Anyway, right? 
Yeah, that's that's kind of a 

778
00:43:28,308 --> 00:43:29,200
thing. 
Like, you know, I've been 

779
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,400
thinking about what they're 
going to do and what it's going 

780
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:36,200
to be, what the initial product 
will be launched as but I don't 

781
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:39,600
think it will replace the love 
of my Warhammer. 

782
00:43:39,700 --> 00:43:44,400
It won't be the same and I think
it's not just that it's just 

783
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,800
like 6th edition wasn't my war 
hammer. 7th edition, 8th Edition

784
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:55,200
wasn't my war hammer so and and 
that's nothing against GW and 

785
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,500
what they're doing nowadays, 
it's just probably just it's 

786
00:43:57,500 --> 00:44:01,500
very different. 
What it does just doesn't match 

787
00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:07,100
my kind of play style or the 
reasons why I got back into 

788
00:44:07,100 --> 00:44:10,400
doing this, was because I wanted
to play the old systems. 

789
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:16,600
I wanted to play the games that 
I thought were just gave me more

790
00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,400
enjoyment or had the memories 
were there. 

791
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,800
And I think anything new related
to what hammer, in whatever, it 

792
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:28,400
might be, just don't have the 
same kind of Gravitas, all the 

793
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:33,200
same kind of The memory triggers
that Nostalgia plays in your 

794
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,100
mind when you play those games 
of the 90s, it doesn't have 

795
00:44:36,100 --> 00:44:39,200
that. 
It's for a new era of gamer or 

796
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:43,000
it's from for, you know, people 
in the market who are sort of 

797
00:44:43,008 --> 00:44:45,900
coming into, what am I from ages
Sigma? 

798
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,600
And that kind of thing. 
So I don't know it's going to be

799
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,300
I was actually really hoping 
they're going to change the 

800
00:44:52,300 --> 00:44:54,300
scale and just make it a 
completely new game. 

801
00:44:54,300 --> 00:44:57,100
I was really hoping they're 
going to make it like a an epic 

802
00:44:57,100 --> 00:45:00,500
scale game that that would 
probably To me a lot more 

803
00:45:01,300 --> 00:45:06,000
personally, but, you know, and 
but yeah, all see what it comes 

804
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,600
out to be, you know, it might be
something that and I'm not going

805
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,400
to buy it. 
I'm not going to buy any 

806
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,900
matches. 
I'll go, if Justin one of my 

807
00:45:13,900 --> 00:45:18,600
mates Justin here or Paul wants 
to buy it and by the corset and 

808
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,500
say, you know, I'll bring it 
around and we'll have a game of 

809
00:45:20,500 --> 00:45:23,300
it and I can use all my existing
models. 

810
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,600
Yeah, I'll give it a go but I 
don't think I'm going to enjoy 

811
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,500
it as much as I do with the old 
system. 

812
00:45:28,500 --> 00:45:33,500
So Have yourself. 
Well, I mean for me, I'm coming.

813
00:45:33,500 --> 00:45:37,000
Sorry, I didn't tell you guys 
the backstory for me personally,

814
00:45:37,100 --> 00:45:40,600
which isn't very typical from 
the board, but like I came back 

815
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:45,300
to the Hobby like two years ago,
after a 15-year Hiatus, after 

816
00:45:45,300 --> 00:45:48,100
growing up, and I think a lot of
people especially in their 30s 

817
00:45:48,100 --> 00:45:51,000
will identify with this. 
That, like, I can afford when I 

818
00:45:51,008 --> 00:45:54,700
was a kid, I had like, what I 
beg scale or borrowed from me, 

819
00:45:54,700 --> 00:45:57,800
no, my more affluent mates, who 
didn't care about the, The Minis

820
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,800
that they lost interest in. 
And then mostly I just watched 

821
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,000
it from the sidelines by reading
white dwarf, right? 

822
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:08,000
And and from that perspective, I
came back to it without. 

823
00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:10,800
But, you know, with some 
playmemories from stores, 

824
00:46:11,100 --> 00:46:13,200
burning a hole in my pocket, 
Nostalgia wise. 

825
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,100
But it was just one of those 
things where I was like, I want 

826
00:46:15,100 --> 00:46:18,400
to do something crafty. 
I want to paint and sculpt and 

827
00:46:18,700 --> 00:46:21,500
and convert and drill and all 
this kind of stuff. 

828
00:46:21,500 --> 00:46:23,100
And I got the spare time. 
Why not? 

829
00:46:24,100 --> 00:46:31,100
And X Grand of hobby money later
here I am in my lamp and a 

830
00:46:31,107 --> 00:46:34,400
wallet that no longer I have to 
drag around on the floor because

831
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:38,200
of how much lighter it's gone 
and buying everyone on this, you

832
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:39,700
know, empathizes with that, 
right? 

833
00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:43,600
I've chased every Kev Adams, 
sculpt like answer to hell or 

834
00:46:43,607 --> 00:46:46,300
high water and that's been the 
hobby almost collecting has been

835
00:46:46,300 --> 00:46:47,400
the hobby for me. 
Yeah. 

836
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:53,000
But what I would say is I didn't
play Fantasy during that era. 

837
00:46:53,900 --> 00:46:58,400
A Recollections of fantasy of 
minimal but they probably come, 

838
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,200
mostly because they come from 
the old days when GW stored have

839
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,700
two tables, right? 
And they have some 40K ruins, 

840
00:47:04,700 --> 00:47:08,800
that look like a church, that 
was all sprayed gray and they'd 

841
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:12,200
have a nice green fields where 
your goblin Green Fantasy game 

842
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,500
would take place and maybe 
they'd switch out the trees to 

843
00:47:14,500 --> 00:47:16,100
do more. 
Masculine, more Master is 

844
00:47:16,100 --> 00:47:17,400
releasing. 
All that kind of stuff. 

845
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:19,700
And I had some Forest goblins 
had about 20. 

846
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,200
There's a mix of bows and hand 
weapons and I did. 

847
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:27,200
Add them to the line of whatever
more green skinny looking Army. 

848
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:31,700
There was and they they'd all 
die and and it was fun but like 

849
00:47:31,700 --> 00:47:33,800
I don't I wasn't beholding to 
the game system. 

850
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:36,000
So for me I'll be interested in 
Old World because I'll be 

851
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:37,800
interested in how it compares to
Warhammer. 

852
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:44,400
Armies project to the fan books 
that we have to a tradition 

853
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,100
Tanner. 
Can the thing that we're going 

854
00:47:46,100 --> 00:47:47,800
to do in April's going to be a 
tradition. 

855
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,900
Why? 
Because we pulled the community 

856
00:47:49,900 --> 00:47:52,500
and the thing that most people 
had most experienced all those 

857
00:47:52,500 --> 00:47:57,600
eight. one of the reasons that I
wanted to come on your show and 

858
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:04,600
talk to you specifically Josh 
was because We have fans of the 

859
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:11,600
aesthetic of the mid 90s, like 
me, who don't know, gaming in 

860
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:15,400
the mid-90s in the way that your
community does and I wondered, 

861
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,500
if you could tell the people 
who've kind of, followed me to 

862
00:48:18,500 --> 00:48:22,900
watch this podcast, if you could
help them, to understand what 

863
00:48:22,900 --> 00:48:26,800
makes fourth fifth edition that 
era that you focus on the most. 

864
00:48:26,900 --> 00:48:31,400
So flavorful and fun. 
Because they have the rule book,

865
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:36,300
they will learn They can find 
PDFs the center of their center 

866
00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:39,900
of gravity is is on eight right 
now because in many cases, 

867
00:48:39,900 --> 00:48:41,600
that's the thing that they're 
familiar with. 

868
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,000
So what made it different? 
Why do people call it hero 

869
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:47,700
hammer and like what does it 
have to commend itself to to 

870
00:48:47,700 --> 00:48:50,000
Gamers? 
But that's a good point because 

871
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,300
I you know I didn't really think
about that until you know coming

872
00:48:53,300 --> 00:48:56,100
back into the hobby coming back 
into like sort of the nineties 

873
00:48:56,100 --> 00:48:59,400
gaming error because you know we
all got caught up in. 

874
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,800
Well I did anyway I got in 
caught caught caught up in other

875
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:03,500
games. 
Games, after leaving Games 

876
00:49:03,500 --> 00:49:06,100
Workshop. 
Either for light painting 

877
00:49:06,100 --> 00:49:08,700
projects, and later became 
Infinity. 

878
00:49:09,500 --> 00:49:12,000
That's way back in second 
edition, that it became more of 

879
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,500
a competitive, you know, iits 
Style game. 

880
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,900
And I think a lot of the games 
like a tradition and 6th edition

881
00:49:19,900 --> 00:49:22,900
were sort of catered For Those 
competitive players, you know, 

882
00:49:22,900 --> 00:49:27,200
because became more of a corner.
But seen you know, and people 

883
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,900
went to tournaments to play 
competitively and they sort of 

884
00:49:29,900 --> 00:49:35,300
balance the lists and they sort 
of sort of created the Rolls 

885
00:49:35,300 --> 00:49:38,900
around and the armless around, 
you know, people who played 

886
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:44,100
competitively and became more 
focused on that than more of the

887
00:49:44,100 --> 00:49:48,000
narrative style. 
Play fourth edition in its 

888
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:49,600
roots. 
I think listening to Rick 

889
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,800
Priestley and some of the 
interviews that he had, and if 

890
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,100
you read, even if you read, even
the books, you know, they're 

891
00:49:56,100 --> 00:49:58,200
basically saying hey, these are 
the rules. 

892
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,800
If you want to change them, feel
free, they're just basically 

893
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,900
like a sort of a guideline, you 
know, if you want to change. 

894
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,600
JH something to know to match 
your theme or style or the way 

895
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:10,600
you want to play. 
Go for it. 

896
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,400
I think, you know, Nigel, 
Stillman and Rick Priestly are 

897
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,000
sort of big Advocates of that 
kind of style of play. 

898
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:22,200
So those games like fourth 
edition and even Third Edition, 

899
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:26,200
really sort of more narrative 
based games. 

900
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:32,500
So they weren't really play 
tested for tournament play so 

901
00:50:32,500 --> 00:50:34,700
much. 
So, they came in a lot of 

902
00:50:34,700 --> 00:50:36,400
problems. 
I think, with tournaments that 

903
00:50:37,100 --> 00:50:40,300
the things that people would 
were breaking the game because 

904
00:50:40,300 --> 00:50:44,100
they'll taking certain 
combinations of magic items or 

905
00:50:44,100 --> 00:50:49,300
units that just made, it, will 
gay people really bad memories 

906
00:50:49,300 --> 00:50:51,600
and maybe a fourth edition. 
I think it's got a bit of a bad 

907
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,900
rap, to be honest. 
And a lot of people sort of came

908
00:50:54,900 --> 00:50:57,400
away thinking, oh, this is a 
horrible game, but in its 

909
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,800
Essence, it's not, it's really a
wonderful wonderful spirited 

910
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:03,300
game because it was created by 
people. 

911
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:08,300
It really wanted to enjoy and 
experience more than a 

912
00:51:08,300 --> 00:51:12,300
tournament style, you know, 
equally matched kind of a 

913
00:51:12,300 --> 00:51:15,700
setting. 
So there's a lot of flavor. 

914
00:51:15,700 --> 00:51:19,900
There's a lot of characters they
really made these, you know, 

915
00:51:19,900 --> 00:51:23,300
magic items which are just crazy
if you look at them now. 

916
00:51:23,308 --> 00:51:27,200
But they all had its place. 
What are you thinking of when 

917
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:31,100
you think crazy like you know, 
like the Forbidden rod, for 

918
00:51:31,100 --> 00:51:35,600
example, I think there's one of 
the the Is that were sort of 

919
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:39,200
blacklisted in one of Rick's 
particles into 22. 

920
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,200
They had to Bear to tone down a 
lot of these really powerful 

921
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:46,200
weapon magic items because yeah,
they would, they would just ruin

922
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:51,400
games with people, you know, you
know that basically cast spell 

923
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,400
with total power. 
Now, total power in 4th edition 

924
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,500
because fourth edition magic and
fifth edition, magic was 

925
00:51:57,500 --> 00:51:59,700
completely different from all 
the other editions. 

926
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:05,400
So you had this all card-based 
and And I think from 6th Edition

927
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:10,100
on was all dice-based. 
That Pedal Power of just meant 

928
00:52:10,100 --> 00:52:13,300
that you just couldn't dispel 
the spell that when it was cast.

929
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:17,100
So if you had the Forbidden Rod,
you had to make a roll. 

930
00:52:17,100 --> 00:52:20,500
Of course, if you're all the one
or two it would, it would it 

931
00:52:20,500 --> 00:52:22,900
would break the item and you'll 
get a wound or something like 

932
00:52:22,900 --> 00:52:24,100
that. 
I think from memory. 

933
00:52:24,100 --> 00:52:27,800
But yeah, they had, they had a 
few items that were very, very 

934
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,200
powerful. 
And because, because they're 

935
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:34,500
also powerful power Gamers back 
in the day, the neckbeards as 

936
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,700
that they put in the rate, it 
would like to call them, they 

937
00:52:36,700 --> 00:52:39,800
would take them all the time. 
You'd have these that are preset

938
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:42,400
items that people will take, you
know, they'll have these Ward's,

939
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,500
save items that would make them 
very involved in vulnerable, 

940
00:52:45,500 --> 00:52:48,700
like black amulets and then 
don't have some very powerful 

941
00:52:48,700 --> 00:52:52,600
sword, like a Hydra sword. 
And, you know, your Source would

942
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:56,500
be tooled up to the max to make 
them almost unkillable. 

943
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:01,100
Riding some Hydra or Manticore 
or something like that. 

944
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,800
So it was the real wild west of 
Warhammer. 

945
00:53:04,500 --> 00:53:08,100
That's probably the best way to 
define 4th and 5th edition, but 

946
00:53:08,700 --> 00:53:12,700
The designers never meant it to 
be like that, you know, they 

947
00:53:12,700 --> 00:53:14,800
never meant it to be. 
If you look at the white dwarf 

948
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,900
battle reports from the 90s, you
can see the flavor, you can see 

949
00:53:18,900 --> 00:53:25,100
the the the unbalanced Point 
values of both sides because it 

950
00:53:25,100 --> 00:53:28,000
wasn't really a major issue, who
would be the most strongest, who

951
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:30,700
would be the most powerful. 
And in, in a particular 

952
00:53:30,700 --> 00:53:33,500
scenario, it was based, okay? 
This is the idea. 

953
00:53:33,500 --> 00:53:35,400
This is the concept, these are 
the forces we have. 

954
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,600
Okay, let's all let's get them 
all together and just just play.

955
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:41,400
And have fun. 
So I think that was probably the

956
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,600
main difference. 
I think. 

957
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:50,000
Interesting. 
So it sounds like what you want 

958
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,600
with with a kind of classic hero
Hammer game. 

959
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:56,600
First of all is you want to have
your character-driven play, 

960
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:58,900
right? 
You want to have your I've 

961
00:53:58,900 --> 00:54:04,100
invested points and time into 
these characters which then if I

962
00:54:04,100 --> 00:54:08,200
think about it, my step back 
from it, lends itself naturally 

963
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:12,000
to narrative play, if these 
characters are having such a 

964
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,000
huge effect on the outcome of 
the battle. 

965
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:18,300
And if the magic items that Have
potentially capable of 

966
00:54:18,300 --> 00:54:22,100
completely changing what happens
in the game, then it's a system,

967
00:54:22,100 --> 00:54:27,500
that's maybe more amenable to 
telling stories and to, a mixed 

968
00:54:27,500 --> 00:54:32,200
campaign, or keeping a campaign 
log in a way, that maybe some of

969
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,100
the later additions, which 
focused a little bit on pushing 

970
00:54:35,100 --> 00:54:38,100
Miniatures and having a big, a 
team and strong Banner of the 

971
00:54:38,107 --> 00:54:40,200
world Dragon, regiment in the 
middle of the board. 

972
00:54:40,700 --> 00:54:42,600
Makes it hard. 
Does that make sense? 

973
00:54:43,100 --> 00:54:45,100
I think so, I think it does. 
Yeah. 

974
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,800
I think from six additional 
words, like, Thomas Puritan took

975
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,100
over the Warhammer development. 
Yeah, and yes. 

976
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:55,300
He came from a tour of a 
tournament based point of view, 

977
00:54:55,300 --> 00:54:58,700
and I think marketing wise, they
wanted to sell more models 

978
00:54:58,700 --> 00:55:01,200
because, you know, that was the 
kind of, that's, that's their 

979
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,600
kind of thing. 
You know, the rules won't sell 

980
00:55:03,700 --> 00:55:05,900
that the rules don't make. 
The money is diminishes and make

981
00:55:05,900 --> 00:55:06,600
the money. 
Yeah. 

982
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:09,200
And they want more and more 
models on the table. 

983
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:14,100
So that's basically they're sort
of driving angle sales-wise 

984
00:55:14,100 --> 00:55:17,600
about marketing wise Fourth 
edition, you can get away with 

985
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,800
having a virus. 
We looked at the the the cows 

986
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:22,700
are me. 
The fourth edition, I was 3,000 

987
00:55:22,700 --> 00:55:24,900
points. 
There's not that many models. 

988
00:55:25,700 --> 00:55:28,900
You know, you can get away with 
quite a small, especially chaos.

989
00:55:28,900 --> 00:55:30,900
You know, you can get a get away
with a very small amount of 

990
00:55:30,908 --> 00:55:35,300
models, but all them goblins 
might be different contrast in 

991
00:55:35,300 --> 00:55:38,900
terms of points, but you could 
have smaller armies. 

992
00:55:38,900 --> 00:55:42,300
You can play 59 points, we play 
1500 points and its really nice.

993
00:55:42,300 --> 00:55:45,600
Enjoyable match for clouds. 
Yeah, it's good. 

994
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:48,000
It fun. 
But yeah you just bake it how 

995
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,500
you want it to be, you know, you
you can make it very competitive

996
00:55:51,500 --> 00:55:54,800
like the math and the guys that 
the the fly Little cast, a flail

997
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:56,700
of skulls come podcast. 
I'm sorry. 

998
00:55:57,500 --> 00:56:01,200
Talk about where you can sort of
tailor really tournament based 

999
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:04,800
lists, or you can play it, like 
we do where we just play it 

1000
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,800
very, very Loosely. 
And, you know, just just for a 

1001
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:12,300
laugh and having having some fun
which is, I think in essence 

1002
00:56:12,300 --> 00:56:15,600
the, the main reason why we play
games like this, you know? 

1003
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,300
Okay, well I think that's really
exciting. 

1004
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:25,200
I think if there's people from 
the board's who are listening to

1005
00:56:25,207 --> 00:56:28,000
this who have history and 
pedigree with that kind of 

1006
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:32,800
thing, then definitely check out
the the stuff that Josh has got 

1007
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,800
going on and especially I think 
read the magazine because it's 

1008
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:40,900
such a lovingly created and 
wonderful rendition of white 

1009
00:56:40,900 --> 00:56:46,000
dwarf as it was then. 
And I think the most important 

1010
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,000
thing that I'm Take away from 
this conversation. 

1011
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,300
We've had Josh is that when the 
time comes to make my big 

1012
00:56:51,300 --> 00:56:55,900
narrative campaign here, I 
hammers Great era for me to be 

1013
00:56:55,900 --> 00:56:58,800
gaming in because those 
characters that we build the 

1014
00:56:58,800 --> 00:57:01,300
story around, are going to have 
the power level. 

1015
00:57:01,300 --> 00:57:04,300
That means that they reshaped 
the board around themselves and 

1016
00:57:04,300 --> 00:57:06,900
it's going to make the story 
more character-driven. 

1017
00:57:07,100 --> 00:57:10,500
Then if they just end up dead 
under a pile of goblins, which 

1018
00:57:10,500 --> 00:57:12,800
is probably what would happen if
I tried to do the same thing, 

1019
00:57:13,500 --> 00:57:15,600
you know, it's probably also 
what's going to happen to me in 

1020
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:17,200
about 20 years. 
But we'll have to see. 

1021
00:57:17,300 --> 00:57:21,500
Yeah, I think, I think all of us
are on the, in the hobby, for 

1022
00:57:21,500 --> 00:57:22,900
different reasons. 
Some people, just interrupt for 

1023
00:57:22,900 --> 00:57:24,900
just collecting and painting. 
I mean, like you said, like the 

1024
00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:27,800
collecting as is another sort of
aspect the hobby that people 

1025
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:28,600
enjoy. 
You know? 

1026
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:31,900
I've actually enjoyed doing that
to you do for the last few 

1027
00:57:31,900 --> 00:57:35,400
years, collecting bits and Bobs 
that I've always wanted and 

1028
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,700
completing collections or it 
might be and still collecting, 

1029
00:57:38,700 --> 00:57:41,000
you know, that's, that's that's 
another part of the ask. 

1030
00:57:41,300 --> 00:57:43,400
Another aspect of hobby, that's 
very enjoyable. 

1031
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:46,400
It takes a lot of time, but a 
lot of the cost a lot. 

1032
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:48,900
Money. 
But yeah, some people don't even

1033
00:57:48,900 --> 00:57:51,200
play the game. 
Some people just put collate, 

1034
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,800
the models, paint them up, stick
with the cabinet and just be 

1035
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:58,100
happy with that. 
Yeah, but I mean right now as a 

1036
00:57:58,107 --> 00:58:01,000
three-stage hobby, I'm at the 
part where you collect them 

1037
00:58:02,300 --> 00:58:04,800
painting is something I'm going 
to have to learn. 

1038
00:58:05,100 --> 00:58:07,800
Yeah, yeah, pain is not for 
everybody. 

1039
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,800
I can tell them to stand that, 
right? 

1040
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:13,300
It's for me, it's about setting 
aside the time, making it 

1041
00:58:13,300 --> 00:58:17,900
happen, I'm calling my bluff on 
that one because My blogs. 

1042
00:58:17,900 --> 00:58:20,900
So, what you do, let me just 
share my screen one more time 

1043
00:58:20,900 --> 00:58:25,100
because we're coming to the end.
I think it's of the stuff that I

1044
00:58:25,100 --> 00:58:28,300
wanted to talk about. 
And what we're looking at here 

1045
00:58:28,300 --> 00:58:30,700
is we're looking at chaos tools 
online the board. 

1046
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,800
Now, you know, there's a 
Facebook group, a Discord chat 

1047
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:40,400
room, full of idiots, myself 
included actually, yeah, I love 

1048
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:49,700
that, I love. 
And and this is kind of where we

1049
00:58:49,700 --> 00:58:53,300
kind of congregate is the board.
The board is where you set up 

1050
00:58:53,300 --> 00:58:55,600
your blog, right. 
And I'm not going to, you know, 

1051
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,300
drain it. 
But my writing series is on this

1052
00:58:58,300 --> 00:59:00,300
background stories and art 
section, right? 

1053
00:59:00,300 --> 00:59:05,900
And that's been really fun, just
past three thousand readers of 

1054
00:59:05,900 --> 00:59:09,500
that. 
If I then go into the miniature 

1055
00:59:09,500 --> 00:59:11,500
showcase. 
This is really the capital city 

1056
00:59:11,500 --> 00:59:15,400
of the of the board, right? 
And what we often do with new 

1057
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:19,000
people, is we say Say, oh well, 
when are you going to start a 

1058
00:59:19,008 --> 00:59:25,200
blog and really what that means 
is fundamentally, what have you 

1059
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:27,000
got to show? 
What are you working on? 

1060
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:30,000
What are you interested in and 
then your blog as with so many 

1061
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,700
other boards and forums becomes 
a place where you make that that

1062
00:59:32,700 --> 00:59:36,200
long and what you would find if 
you went through this is some of

1063
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:38,900
the most beautiful Miniatures 
that I've ever seen in terms of 

1064
00:59:38,900 --> 00:59:41,200
the design but also a huge 
amount of diversity in the 

1065
00:59:41,200 --> 00:59:42,600
direction that people take it 
in. 

1066
00:59:42,900 --> 00:59:46,300
You got goblin Green bases in 
here, you've also got, you know,

1067
00:59:46,500 --> 00:59:49,000
People who sculpt things 
lovingly in our painting 

1068
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:53,800
competitions or Time, reavers 
Blog at the top river is also on

1069
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:57,700
our podcast is a good mate of 
mine and it's my father, the 

1070
00:59:57,700 --> 01:00:01,000
most viewed because of the 
conversion work that he does. 

1071
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:07,100
But fundamentally, you know, the
thing that I think the bluff 

1072
01:00:07,100 --> 01:00:09,500
that I need to call this, I 
started a couple of blogs on 

1073
01:00:09,500 --> 01:00:12,300
here and they're just the list 
of the Miniatures that I bought 

1074
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:16,300
and it's my effort to kind of 
egg myself on and say I've been 

1075
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:18,500
Beerus myself in front of 
everyone by admitting how many 

1076
01:00:18,500 --> 01:00:22,200
Miniatures I now have. 
And now I have to chip away at 

1077
01:00:22,200 --> 01:00:25,900
the gray mountain and and 
eventually over time turned them

1078
01:00:25,900 --> 01:00:30,800
into something as impressive as 
if we look at Eddie's blog, you 

1079
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,300
know, all of the Vintage stuff 
that's being created, people 

1080
01:00:34,300 --> 01:00:37,300
making their own stl's and 
printing them and then painting 

1081
01:00:37,300 --> 01:00:40,900
them up. 
You know, people doing this is 

1082
01:00:40,900 --> 01:00:42,800
my favorite thing. 
Eddie's done recently, right? 

1083
01:00:42,800 --> 01:00:47,600
He's taking a skaven warlock. 
And converted them into a 

1084
01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:51,500
hobgoblin, but you got blood 
Bowl teams everything from all 

1085
01:00:51,500 --> 01:00:53,600
over the area that explores the 
concept. 

1086
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:56,200
And then you know, obviously we 
have the off-topic Showcase. 

1087
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:58,700
If you've got some second 
edition Imperial Guard or 

1088
01:00:58,707 --> 01:01:01,200
something like that, that you 
want to show from from other 

1089
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:06,400
games systems as well. 
And I know I'm laying down my 

1090
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:09,600
challenge to myself on your 
podcast, Josh to say, I know I 

1091
01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:13,100
need to paint something and post
it up here, but I think anyone 

1092
01:01:13,100 --> 01:01:16,300
is halfway interested in in 
chaos troughs should consider 

1093
01:01:16,300 --> 01:01:18,100
doing Doing the same thing. 
They want to collect some, they 

1094
01:01:18,100 --> 01:01:21,200
can find people in the direct 
messages or on the marketplace 

1095
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,700
thread, who they can speak to 
you about what to find and how 

1096
01:01:23,700 --> 01:01:26,800
to find it cheaply. 
But then equally, you can just 

1097
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:31,100
have a really great time. 
You know, looking at some 

1098
01:01:31,700 --> 01:01:34,600
really, really special 
Miniatures and join the painting

1099
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:37,200
contest. 
I've encouraged everyone from 

1100
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:39,700
our community to join the, the 
ones that you guys have had as 

1101
01:01:39,700 --> 01:01:42,600
well. 
And just, take whatever range is

1102
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:44,700
used to collect in whatever 
Direction you want to take it. 

1103
01:01:46,700 --> 01:01:48,800
Nice. 
But yeah, I still can't get over

1104
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:49,900
this. 
There's such a massive 

1105
01:01:49,900 --> 01:01:52,900
Community, just devoted, just a 
cast or it's incredible. 

1106
01:01:55,200 --> 01:01:58,600
The things bear in mind is that 
like, active posters, and, and, 

1107
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:02,700
and all that kind of stuff 
you're talking about, dozens not

1108
01:02:02,700 --> 01:02:05,600
hundreds, right? 
But then the Facebook groups 

1109
01:02:05,600 --> 01:02:10,800
about 1,500 people, you know, 
some of the, the fiction has got

1110
01:02:11,100 --> 01:02:14,100
two and a half thousand readers,
but those people usually don't 

1111
01:02:14,100 --> 01:02:16,300
speak, we recently emailed 
everyone. 

1112
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:19,700
One from the old Community from 
the boarding Forum that we shut 

1113
01:02:19,700 --> 01:02:23,500
it down now and we converted it 
all over in our big archive. 

1114
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:26,200
But as you'll see the archive 
Community Awards, go back to 

1115
01:02:26,200 --> 01:02:28,600
2007. 
But if you think about how the 

1116
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:32,500
Army back goes back to 90, the 
Army book goes back to 1994. 

1117
01:02:32,500 --> 01:02:36,000
You know, there's a lot that's 
built up over the years. 

1118
01:02:36,300 --> 01:02:39,500
The key thing is, if it didn't 
happen here in the world of 

1119
01:02:39,500 --> 01:02:41,600
chaos dwarfs, probably didn't 
happen. 

1120
01:02:41,700 --> 01:02:44,000
Right. 
There are a huge number of 

1121
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:49,000
people who are still Paying 
attention to this Army outside 

1122
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:52,200
of this tent. 
And we look for opportunities to

1123
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,700
bring new people in, which is 
what we thought when we, when we

1124
01:02:54,700 --> 01:02:56,800
were reading, you know, your 
magazine, listening to your 

1125
01:02:56,800 --> 01:03:00,000
podcast, we thought we'd bet 
there's an exchange of value 

1126
01:03:00,000 --> 01:03:04,000
that can take place here and we 
look forward to seeing lots of 

1127
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:05,400
new hero. 
Hammer people if they want to 

1128
01:03:05,408 --> 01:03:08,500
come and join the party but 
they're more than welcome. 

1129
01:03:08,500 --> 01:03:10,000
So yeah, we would love to see 
it. 

1130
01:03:10,700 --> 01:03:16,000
So again, yeah, if if your 
community are interesting in the

1131
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:19,900
hero, Amber age. 
It's not you know, totally 

1132
01:03:19,900 --> 01:03:22,700
unaccessible. 
You can find the PDFs or the 

1133
01:03:22,700 --> 01:03:27,000
books. 
And it's mainly just the, the 

1134
01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:30,200
magic system, which will 
probably be the most difficult 

1135
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,600
to Source because you need the 
actual set because it was sold 

1136
01:03:33,600 --> 01:03:37,700
is actually the box magic. 
So what's that is that storm of 

1137
01:03:37,700 --> 01:03:40,900
magic, or what was it called? 
The battle magic. 

1138
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:45,400
So it was called, yeah. 
Why not magic for 5th edition 

1139
01:03:45,700 --> 01:03:47,800
and whatever. 
Magic for 4th edition. 

1140
01:03:47,900 --> 01:03:51,200
So the two differences, but 
they're both compatible. 

1141
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,900
Like, if you had one or the 
other, all right, - both one. 

1142
01:03:53,900 --> 01:03:55,800
Because there wasn't, there 
wasn't much in that wasn't a 

1143
01:03:55,808 --> 01:03:57,500
massive difference between 4th 
and 5th. 

1144
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:00,800
In terms of rules or magic. 
They were very, very similar. 

1145
01:04:02,300 --> 01:04:06,300
So if but you can print those 
out in a, you got plenty of 

1146
01:04:06,300 --> 01:04:09,100
files on our, on our here, a 
groups on Facebook, you can 

1147
01:04:09,100 --> 01:04:13,100
print those out. 
And and just get a pair of just 

1148
01:04:13,100 --> 01:04:17,100
get it like a set of playing 
cards and you can make those 

1149
01:04:17,100 --> 01:04:20,300
basically until Winds of magic 
deck and that kind of thing. 

1150
01:04:20,300 --> 01:04:24,700
So there's Ways and Means of 
getting around it and I hope and

1151
01:04:24,700 --> 01:04:28,100
I encourage and I'll get onto 
your Discord and start, you 

1152
01:04:28,100 --> 01:04:31,800
know, plugging away on there 
about you know, this kind of 

1153
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:34,200
thing and maybe sharing some 
files, whatever. 

1154
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:38,300
So people who want to try the 
the the fourth edition cows 

1155
01:04:38,300 --> 01:04:40,300
dwarf, Army lists on the table 
one day. 

1156
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:43,400
Yeah, that'll be wonderful to 
see and hopefully, I can see 

1157
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,200
some pictures of that happening 
soon mate. 

1158
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:48,500
So that be good. 
Excellent. 

1159
01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:51,600
Well, thank you very much, Josh.
I really enjoyed coming on. 

1160
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:55,400
Thanks for making the time and 
all that kind of stuff and let's

1161
01:04:55,400 --> 01:04:59,000
I guess see each other around 
both communities. 

1162
01:04:59,500 --> 01:05:01,400
Definitely might know, thank you
very much, kind of your time to 

1163
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:05,300
come on today, mate. 
And I hope to come back on to 

1164
01:05:05,300 --> 01:05:08,900
your podcast or whatever. 
Whatever format you want me to 

1165
01:05:08,900 --> 01:05:13,300
come back onto and And yeah, we 
can, I can talk to you guys 

1166
01:05:13,300 --> 01:05:16,600
about some, the here, I'm out 
here, I have my age and why it's

1167
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:20,300
why it's the best age to get 
into cows tools but thank you 

1168
01:05:20,308 --> 01:05:23,600
very much for your time today. 
Really enjoyable, chat today, 

1169
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:25,900
and I hope people will will get 
out there. 

1170
01:05:25,900 --> 01:05:27,800
Cast off Collections and sell 
them to me. 

1171
01:05:34,100 --> 01:05:34,700
Thank you very much.