If we start looking at the the actual list is gaming book does
have the special rules. Specifically they have a few
unique years gaming things like the warp stone and so on.
And I don't know the other special rules that sort of army
wide. Do they have the you get
leadership bonus for racks? I think they are the only ones
that. Oh well.
No, not leads. Yeah.
How does that one work? I forget but isn't it for every
rank after the first up to the same as rank bonus?
So up to three up to your leadship if you've got those
ranks on your on your unit. My brother always has an issue
with this role. He just thinks it's a bit, you
know, unfair that they can do that.
But really with the Skaven army, I think probably because Andy
wrote it, who obviously was a Skaven player, yes, OK, you
could argue, oh, he's done it to give himself a benefit that
other armies don't have. But there's also the because he
plays it, he knows that. OK, with Orkut and goblins, you
can kind of get around the goblin leadership by not using
them. Yeah, Skaven, there is no
getting away from their low leadership.
That's what they have, you know, and if he was used to his army
always just running away, that's no fun.
So, so I can understand if he's used that, then he brings it in.
Yes, The the, the other argument that, you know, I said to
people, you know, always bring something in just for his army.
You know, there's definitely an argument there.
But you know, if if you as a player experiencing your army
always just runs away, there's there's something needs to be
tweaked and it's it's a characterful role because they
are going to take a lot. Of for me, I for me, it's one of
the the most brilliant rules in the game when it comes to
flavour, you know, to character, because it makes this government
when they are a lot of them together, they become brave.
They are balleys, you know, they are ballot.
But when they start to lose numbers, they say, oh.
Something's going wrong. They will keep running.
Because you have lost of your ranks.
So when they start run OK, the rats will keep running it's very
difficult for them to rally. So for me, when you think about
the flavour and character, it's one of the most brilliant rules
in the game. I absolutely love it.
I I was quite of when I saw in the new game in the old world, a
lot of armies got this, this rule, you know, because and that
is absolutely awful. Maybe because it's with all the
character to the to the armies, because I lost only this cabin
to have this strength in numbers and then the extra, the extra
film movement. You know, you are feeling one
extra one. That was right too.
I don't remember. Sadly, it was in force later.
So what's the the rule about? You could shoot into your own.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Noted.
Any army in fourth, any in demand, tough escape, and any
army can shoot into combat. That's true that that became in
in 6th edition it's Kevin were the only ones.
But of course, it is the Army count.
Yeah, and I've got a friend who is regularly happy to do it.
He's an Empire player, which is a bit rude.
He's he's certainly, there was at least one game I remember
him. He's he had a unit of
halberdiers that were getting chopped up by Phoenix Guard.
My Phoenix Guard were ripping them apart.
He was down to just one model and my Phoenix Guard.
So he shot a held blaster and yeah, good trade.
He's 1 remaining model, but he was like a few Phoenix Guards.
Yeah. So, yeah, any arm you can do.
It's it's kind of, you know, it's a 50, you know, you roll
5050 to see who you hear. We shoot the college combat.
It's it's maybe a bit underhanded and most people
won't do it, but any army can, yeah.
Then there's the poison. The poison with Lovadiers they
can put, you know, the template in the back of the enemy unit.
So they are almost everything, the most ever killing enemies
not discarded. They are much more handy when it
comes to. Global deeds are a lot more
powerful than people give them. Credit.
For they are one of the game winners of the Skaven army.
Cool. And was it a fourth addition
thing that they could? It was something about
challenges. So what's that?
A later thing, that's some special rule about denying
challenge or something. Yeah, let's remember.
Yeah, that's later. It's not in this one.
The only other one really they've got that's a generic
rule, not for a specific unit and such is all.
Scathing could ignore slaves. I think it's giant rats as well.
But certainly they could ignore slaves route, which is very
useful because it means you can use meat Shields and yeah.
Oh and yeah, so. Yeah.
So giant rats and scathing slaves, Any other scathing scene
in the route doesn't affect them.
They're not fussing. Makes sense.
Yeah, well, they'd already done it with orcs and goblins,
haven't they? So.
So they've given orcs kind of with them.
It's a hierarchy thing, isn't it?
So if if snotlings are fleeing, not they should do because they
copy the linear assuming. But if snot fleeing goblins
don't care if goblins are, if goblins are fleeing, orcs don't
care. If orcs are fleeing, Black Hawks
don't care, you know. So it's a hierarchy.
Obviously everything below them as well.
So Black Hawks won't be, you know, Gobblins fleeing, orcs
fleeing Snotly, any of those don't cause a panic in Black
Hawks. So it's a similar.
So can I say porting that across between arms, so long as you're
not doing it to every single army, you know, as as Camerary
says, you know, they've done a lot of that of porting the
scathing rules into other armies in the world.
Yeah. Yeah.
So we don't do that too much then.
I think that's fine. It still keeps it flavors.
And I think it's right that they wouldn't be panicked by slaves.
You know, if anything, they'd probably laugh at slaves
fleeing. Yeah.
That's what they're there for.
They're not expected to return from battle.
All right. So if we look at the the actual
list a bit, the choices characters, I mean general,
that's pretty much a generic one.
And you have a that's standard course and you have The
Chieftains, the hero class characters.
And then you have the most special ones.
You have the different flavours of warlocks and the seer.
So I mean it's basically level one to four, but the seer is a
bit different. So.
Oh, he's a lot better. Yeah, he's he's Gracie's a
great. And it's it's a shame really.
I don't get why they don't allow Gracie to be a general in the
scale. You can meet your mates because
you could just say, yeah, I can have a Gracie in my yeah, that's
fine. And you can use thankful if need
be. There is probably the only thing
I don't like about the book. For me it's the only flaw in the
book. You can't use your grace here to
leave the the army, only thousands.
In all the stories as well. Vermin Lord should be allowed to
be general, so that's. That's a special one as well,
isn't it? Vermin Lord being a character,
So a great character, because in the Chaos book, obviously it
hadn't been released at this point, but the White Army's
book, Greater demons were ranking well, not rank for they
were part of the demons section. They weren't characters.
Verb Nord is a character. That's an interesting choice
because it takes up a huge, and I guess that's part of the point
is if you are going to use one, that's your battle plan unless
you're playing a really, really, really, really, really big game
because he's such a huge investment of points.
Yeah, 600 months. Yeah.
And taking away your characters, who with Scaven, you really do
need to take high level characters to boost your
leadership. You know, with with your Wizards
Warlock Master, if you're going to use them to lead units,
really you need to be Warlock Master at least to boost that
lead 7 and then obviously the +3 to make it 10.
But vermin is a character I've not really used a couple of
times, but not that much. I've got one painted up and it's
a lovely model, really stunning model, but not really used.
And I guess if you play like maybe 3000 all around there you
still have pretty large allowance of characters after
the vermin Lord. I mean, you still have like 900
points if you do 3000. So true.
But again, obviously your magic Isle of characters come out
there as well. So it's a balancing as with any
army pick, obviously, but 600 points on one character is a
lot. Yeah, it's it's the similar to I
guess it's similar to other armies sticking someone on a
dragon. Yeah, yeah, but of course he he
will be your cost as well. So let's see.
And then we have the the special hero, the plague priests.
Pretty nasty. I think they are terrifying in
close combat. You know 6 attacks to start
with. You know they limited that in
later editions to be you know your attacks plus what frenzy
gave you plus one attack in fourth that's doubled your
attacks. 6 attacks is terrifying to come out of something that
you know is not very you know the the the stats themselves.
You know, web skill 5 is not to be sniffed at.
That's a good weapon skill. The the point that where he
falls down is the strength. So you need something to add to
his strength to actually make those attacks stick.
That's why it's easy. That one, the flail or
something. And his yeah, flail.
That's that's obviously only in the first term, the flail.
So hopefully there won't be a second term.
Oh yeah, there is that, but obviously that's where where you
imagine items can potentially come in as well.
So you've got something like bands of power.
You could use a Scavenone item that's handy, double S your
strength, but it is a spell, so you apparently can dispell it.
The various squads, obviously you can go with like ogre or
giant or death if you really have the points.
If you're not taking a vermin Lord and you have the points for
a death sword, you could go there.
But there there's a great item that came out in the quantities
of war, the I mean little power that I tend to use for this sort
of thing, you know, because it it it adds, yes, there's a
chance you're going to lose a wound, but it really handy
strength addition that isn't like a potion of strength.
It's just one turn use every turn.
So that might be normally right. So what's your normal character
setup? Or maybe it's different for each
battle, but which are the favourites of the characters?
The normal characters? Android.
You want to get first on that one.
Yeah I used to play my warlord with warp armor.
Works on armor and then depending on the army and the
magic. I will use the bands of power
for strength and two hand weapons and then maybe sometimes
crown of command. Of course, sometimes, sometimes
not. And when it comes to the Grays
here, of course, the war stone charm, that's mandatory for the
war test. And then I always do the war
stone scroll, always for flying high units, for attacking flying
high units. And then there are some
variations, but I play the most of the times I will do something
like that. Yeah, right.
So Dave, do can you do yours in one minute?
I will try it. So yeah, just gave me Warlord.
Obviously just general Grace here for me.
I'm not really a war, although Warlord champions at low level
and then Grace is in a bigger game.
I'm a big fan of Storm Demon War lightnings got to be done.
And yes, wrinkling a few match items like potion strength.
Generally speaking, I'm a low cost magic item person.
I'm not don't like high cost ones.
So yeah, try to have a a leader in each unit.
Most of us about assassins, but yeah, a leader or a champion at
least if not achieved in any right.
So second break, maybe we can round it up in the next next
session. Maybe not, but let's get into
the the meat of the list. The Crown of Command is proud to
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So go take a look today and head over to Scott's website at
www.blackarrowminis.com. Let's get into the the troop
section. Obviously the the classic
Scaven, I suppose is the clan rats.
You know, the yeah, typical. Can you have an Escaven army
without clan rats? Maybe you can if you have a
themed sort of pestilence army or something.
But should you deep pockets if you do?
Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.
But no, clan rat's quintessential and they're not
bad troops. You know, they're they're
they're average troops, just with a poor leadership.
They're, they're not terrible. You know, your average clan rat
is just as good at fighting as your average human, which might
not be saying much, but you know, they're, they're they're
not terrible troops, is what I'm saying.
So to, to make them the mainstay of your army is perfectly
viable. And certainly the thing that I
do, I I would probably take clan more clan rats.
They would take and stall them. You can stall them in a
ridiculously expensive from Scaven army.
You know, they're they're they're probably toured up.
They're double the points of your clan rats.
Yeah, and maybe not double the effects.
Nowhere near, nowhere near. I mean, don't get wrong, they do
mince things in close combat. They are very, you know, with a
weapon skill of 4A strength of four plus the bonus of the
Howard. Normally they will, they will do
a lot of damage but they are light troops still.
You know they've got long armour using a helm, but they're only
getting 6 up. Yeah, light armour.
Yeah, and I mean with most sort of elite troops in in 4th
edition, they still only have one attack.
I mean there are some exceptions, but and so they are
shots, you know, a couple die, you don't have many attacks back
so and you're going to have some.
So in the end there's not going to be much killing down from the
troops anyway, probably. Yeah, but there is a very, very
nasty combo with a storm burning because they are expensive.
But if you put them scab and brew and then you can cast that
frenzy and then yeah, yeah, I did one size scored the six with
the with the scabbing bro and then cost the frenzy and they
are moving a crazy amount of inches.
They. Are they are?
Moving more than Flyers. One child and they have 4
attacks. So, so you have something very,
very nasty today. I have managed to do a couple of
times and it's really funny, you know, with that.
So is there some result for the screaming bell that can add to
that as well? Or is that just more enemies?
Yeah, and then screaming Bell, you can have Francis and yeah,
yeah, they're very nice to come up.
Yeah. Maybe that's all we can so, but
for the the clan rats, what's the proper number?
I mean depending on on the size of course, but so 30 or.
I wouldn't take that many. Yeah, I don't take that many.
I have played there a lot of times and I have found 25 clan
rats for me is more than enough. 25 playing with 55 ranks, five
guys because then you have the assassins, maybe a character and
then I always add the war fire thrower to globators and it's
enough for me with 25 guys. When it comes to bigger numbers,
I go for slaves. Maybe slaves would be more but
that's 25 for me is enough and 20 can do pretty good.
Do you agree, Dana? Yeah, I do.
I actually quite a lot. I'll go for 24, not 25, although
obviously characters in that 24 and then you, you, you retain a
little bit more rank bonus, that's all.
So you, so you're very much fighting in column when you do
that. Yeah, they're not going to do a
whole lot of killing anyway from against most enemies, I suppose.
So it's it's more about ranks than kills, I suppose.
Ranks. And also obviously having a
decent character in there, you know, you put a warlock master
or a grey seer in there or a Chieftain, you're going to be
doing a fair bit of damage from the character.
And you know, then you've got the rank bonus that's been given
by by the sheer number of ranks. And you're like, yeah, war fire
throws can help. I've got to be honest, I've not
ever really done huge amounts of damage from a war fire thrower.
Not to say they aren't useful. I think they are, and they're,
they're probably scarier to see than they are what they actually
end up doing. So they're more of a deterrent
than anything. Yeah.
But yeah, I mean, they have their effects even though they
might always do stuff. So.
Yeah. And really it's the poison wind
globeties for me that does the tips, the balance.
You know, you Chuck, you're chucking the the globes into the
combat, you know, hitting the rear ranks, the unit, reducing
their rank bonus, doing some kills.
And you know, it's kind of a race against time for you, but
you know, you've got to try and break you quickly or they're
going to whittle down really, you know, nastly if it, if the
combat lasts on, then your opponent's in a lot of trouble
if you're, if you're chucking, poisoning globes into him every
turn. So yeah, that's, that's that's
where I go. So yeah, no, I think 2024 is
about right, 2524. I still do like my one solid
unit of of clan rats though, as my generals unit where I do go
large or I'll go 36 plus, but that's only one unit.
It's subsequent units that I keep at like 24 or so 2425,
although against elves I have been able to push that to 30.
My brother is a wood elf player. Oh yeah, You need to absorb a
bit more shooting. Yeah, exactly.
So, well, that mean that said, Dwarfs, Empire, all of all of
you guys are shooting armies. You know, really, the good guys
tend to be shooting armies and the bad guys tend to be close
combat armies. So it's definitely something to
watch out for. But I've also, you know, been on
the receiving end of many an empire.
Night charge as well, and that's why your rank bonus really is
you have to have it. So that's why I tend to get into
the 20 fours. Yeah.
So about the we talked about the sort of support troops, I guess
that's a fairly unique feature for Scaven to attach these
little weapon teams as they were later called.
I don't think they were. Maybe they were called that now,
but yeah, in 6th edition of the war.
So yeah, that's a a nice feature I think.
And it is it necessary? Do you always include nobody
else or Yeah. I always include the if I if I'm
deploying crown rats, I will deploy more files lower and to
global. There's always and maybe, maybe
it's not necessary, but I like it, so I always.
Yeah, the most important thing. That's the most important thing
actually, whilst we're on this, I'm on a tiny, tiny wee little
bit which I meant to say at the at the start and I forgot, but
talk about what fire throws and poison wing globe it is has kind
of reminded me there is and we'll talk about Skaven origins.
Yeah, there is a train of thought and I don't think it's
entirely false. There is a certain connection to
the Second World War with Skaven.
The thought that their little symbol, their triangle symbol,
and the fact they use warp fire or sorry, the fire and poison
gas is connected to the thought to be connected very much to.
They're inspired a little. There's a little bit of a Nazi
connection going on there that they might be inspired by that
kind of Second World warfare, yeah, bad guy sort of kind of
vibe using fire and and we and poison.
And there is. Yeah, and the symbol.
The symbol, yeah, yeah, I and I heard once, you know, the, the
original I think is Black Assassin or Backstabber, you
know, the original assassins and the first release I heard once
the position of their arms is trying to resemble this Bastika.
I, I, I rest once that yes, who's win this that to make them
more evil, to resemble this Bastika possession.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That really wouldn't surprise
me. I mean the the the the the
etching symbol itself is. Yeah.
The symbol and and and Smith, it's very.
Close. To the weapon blade forming this
is Bastika like symbol. Yeah, yeah, there's definitely a
connection there. Let's say you know the.
Anyway, let's get back to brighter things of nature.
No, no, no, it's fine. It's interesting.
Yeah. We thought we talked a bit a
little bit about about the slaves.
Yeah. So are they also an auto
include? Well, I always say, I always
defend slaves are the very best troupe in the game.
You have just 2 1/2 points and you have strands 3, Toughness 3.
You can have a very high leadership.
They don't panic, you can shoot into combat with them and
there's no problem. So for me, is there when it
comes ### you know, for the point cost for me is the very
best troop in the game. Yeah, they've got they've got
A5, they've got initiative of four as well.
So good. Give them Spears.
They are actually a very good treat type.
You can redo it in 3rd because obviously if they did, they
didn't have the leadership rules.
So if they did panic because they didn't have the panic rules
as well, the other other units wouldn't be panicked by them.
They you can really do it. But in fourth, yeah, they they
are actually a really good troop type.
They've only got web scaler too, but most things are going to be
hitting on 4 plus whether they've got web scaler two or
three. So you know there there's no OK,
yeah, they're getting hit back and they don't have a lot of
armour, but that's why they're dirt cheap.
So it's probably not even worthwhile giving them Shields
to be honest with you. But they are very, very useful
and I would include them anyway because of my sensibilities
going back to Warhammer Army's third edition where you had to
have at least twenty of them. So my head in 4th edition, I
still need to include them. I'm starting to lose those
sensibilities. They're starting to slightly
drift off in all the armies that I play that I don't necessarily
take the maximum minimums from third in fourth.
But it's still kind of nagging there when I don't do it.
I'm thinking I should really be doing that.
So yeah, but. But I love them and I've got
loads of the models themselves of the Jazz Goodwin ones and
I'll, I absolutely adore those models.
So I'd include them if only just for that.
I mean, it wasn't until I started painting, I even noticed
that they had a collar around the neck, a metal collar around
the neck. And I saw the feet, the foot
ones that you can see on the models.
They definitely have chains on there ankles, but I didn't
notice I started painting. They actually have chains on
their necks as well, which is really characterful for a model,
you know, for what they are. And I love them, adore them.
And yes, I'll I would always include at least one unit of
them. And in really small battles as
well, taking a couple of units of slaves is just too much for
most opponents. Yeah, I mean, it's not going to
take a big chunk of your point allowance, so it's really no big
commitment. Well, Andy does talk about as
well in the tactics. I don't know if it's in the
tactics section of this book or in tactics section of the
article that he did for 3rd. I don't know.
I'm not sure. But it is very true that if you
want to make your flanking forces look bigger than they
are, more powerful than they are clearly a couple of units of
slaves with them. So if you have a unit of Klan
rats with a warp fire thrower and two units of slaves, that's
not a huge amount of points really.
And yet effective and is scary by sheer numbers.
Cool. So yeah, I haven't gotten around
to paint any of my slaves yet, but maybe I should.
About time. So the final unit that's sort of
actual ranked up unit is the take marks.
We talked a little bit about them, Francid crazy guys.
So, well, what do you think? Well, for an start, Pestilence
is my favorite clan, so it's very difficult for me not to
include like I love them. I love the miniatures and so,
but they are very good in the game to frenzy to weapons and
that sport. I find them really, really handy
for a lot of things. And when you are the the sensor
leaders, they are deadly. Yeah, it's going to hit hard.
It's a bit fragile I guess, but yeah, they had tough historical
so maybe not too fragile. They don't have any armour
though, but toughness war is arguably better.
Well, you can give them light armour but I always think Essex
plus safe just isn't worth it. Yeah I know, it's just too much
removing it anyway. Exactly, you know, and and and
Scaven, if they're getting charged, unless you're playing
elves, obviously, but typically if scathing are getting charged,
then it's got probably getting charged by cavalry.
And if they're getting charged by cavalry, then you ain't
getting you saved because they've either got Spears or
lances normally. So yeah, I don't I don't think
that like I'm as worthwhile for them.
But yeah, I, I spent a very long time without any models for
plate monks and so I didn't include them in my four position
armies to start with. For some reason I can't.
I, I think it's because I, I loved, there was a very one
specific model from Jessie's skaving that looked very much
like a storm vermin in my head, or at least the 4th edition
storm vermin in my head. And you used to get one of those
in a pack of storm vermin. So I spent my money buying them
when I was buying packs of skaving rather than plague
monks. So I didn't really buy them.
Then I stumbled upon in in my local games game shop I stumbled
upon Black tree designs versions of them and there was a big box
of like 18 of them for dirt cheap money so I bought.
So I bought them and after that plague monks were always in my
arm. They are definitely in a unit
that minces the opposition. I tend to give them the
additional hand weapons because it's stupid if you don't because
they can't take Shields so why would you hand weapons and
normally a banner of mine so they can so they so they're
double attacks and they are hitting a lot better because of
the banner of mine with a plague priest in there as well.
Like to damage. They have a sheer number of
attacks. Yes, they struggle with high
save. You know, you've got a high
yeah, or a high toughness, but that's why you've got the volume
of attacks. Similar principle to a unit of
gobbo bows. OK, If you're rolling enough
dice, some will be failed. Yeah.
So that's that's where the where their sheer volume of attacks
comes in. And then with the barren light,
it just means you're pretty much, well, not guaranteeing
because you're still, you're probably going to be 3 plus to
hit, but that's a lot better than 50.
You know, a third of the chance to hit rather than than hot of
the chances is a lot better. I guess unless you face
something cheeky in 4th edition that has one plus save, then
you're not going to do anything. So no, that's true.
That's why you've got to play priest in there.
Yeah. Yeah.
And also obviously the plague sensors.
Yeah. That are, I think if Josh wanted
to jump in, if he's there, if you want to jump in.
I know they are his favorite unit in the Scaven army and he
absolutely adores the MO Whenever I watch one of these
back reports where he's played, where he's played scathing in
the past, plague sensors are always in there.
He always extol extols their virtues.
Right. So then for the troop
selections, we have the gutter runners.
Yeah, they're very expensive gutter runners and they don't
tend to live up their hype because that's if they were
cheaper, I think they would be better.
Well, the same as any army, obviously only only army, but
but what means in essence, because they are so expensive
and they are so fragile yes, OK, they've got weapons skill for
that's brilliant. They've got strength for they've
got they've got higher than normal leadership because they
can't get the rank bonus, obviously.
So actual fact, they've got a lower leadership than most of
the others gave in that sense. Rank bonus and they're going to
act independent outside of the general opponent also knows how
deadly they can be, and most opponents will spend a large
amount of time to get rid of them.
Now you could factor that into your tactics and take them in
order to draw fire. That's an expensive unit to do
that with. Yeah, I love the miniature, so I
always use one unit, even if they are only 5 or 6.
But usually that unit doesn't work much during the battle.
In my mind, they are trying to hand down some lonely scatter,
they are trying to kill a war machine, but they don't usually
do much. But I love the miniatures so.
So I yeah. Yeah, I mean.
That's not that big idea. Too expensive?
Yeah. Expensive.
Yeah, and they can be kitted out quite extensively.
You can, they can give them a lot of stuff, but maybe if you
suspect they're not going to do too much, maybe that's a waste
of points. Even the further.
Yeah, I just find it weird they can take slings or throwing
stars just like, well, why give them the two?
I said that's a bit. Yeah, one or the other I'd have
thought would be would be an option, but I know you don't
have to take both. I get that 100%.
But it's weird they have the option for both, you know, you
thought one or the other. So then and then you've got
assassins. Now the interesting thing about
assassins again, I often hear people complain about fourth
edition assassins for Scaven because they're a troop choice
rather than a character choice. Now the interesting thing though
is if you look at the White Armies book, there are troop
choice in there as well. And Dark Alf assassins were a
troop choice in the book. So in actual fact, it was the
plan to do that all along and least up to it.
Jarvis is the one that moved away from it when when he did
the dark health book. So yes, you can complain about
that, but it was the plan all along.
It wasn't, it's not Andy Sunny going, oh, I'm going to do this.
No, it was done from the outset with force.
So they are troops, but they sort of have a magic weapon.
So that's kind of powerful. But they, yeah, they've got a
lesson. Of course.
Blade. It's it's not as powerful as the
magic item we've been. Blade, it's not got the same
bonuses, but it's still a poisoned weapon.
And yeah, no, they're good. They're handy to tip a balance,
you know, they to kill less. They're not going to kill a
mighty character. They're not going to kill a Lord
or something like that probably, but they might take a wound off
of him. That's handy.
But lower level characters like army standard bearers that so
your low level Wizards you end up in combat with or are you
kind of wizard? Because Wizards aren't great,
obviously in combat, unless you're a gracer.
They're useful for that sort of thing.
That's where I'd use them. What about you, Kendra?
How? How have you faired with your
assassins? Well, I tend to put two
assassins in. Yeah, yeah, I used to.
I used to put into because they have quite a lot of pants.
You know you can even when they attacking normal troops they are
with the whipping blaze and so they are much more proficient
than the other than the. Regular scam so I have I
sometimes I put one. Sometimes I put 2, but
definitely I I use assassins in Clan rats and in Stone burning
quite a lot. And once again I talk about the
escaping brew. The escaping brew when you score
the two double attacks. Not to try that.
Let's see what happens, you know?
So yeah. Once more, I use a lot of
assassins. Wow so so you put double
assassin poison wingy every day is what fire throw with your
client. Your client.
Rats are not cheap. No, no I'm not.
Cheap at all? The bulk of the points in my
army are the clam rats, but they're very, very expensive.
Clam rats. Then there is some support by
clam rats and you know, the spine of my army usually.
Yeah, sounds like a we have a play, we know what to go for
now. Yeah, it's the desktop, gaming
desktop. OK, we talked a bit about the
horse wing Globarius and the universal praise.
I believe so it's a thing. And finally, the last two choice
I think is the packmasters. Yeah, love God lover, Packmaster
Ratto is on the most effective. I don't like much packmasters
rat others I I like the miniatures but I have found they
are pretty useless in the game. Just two attacks, OK?
And. That loses it for me once more.
You can use them for the flavor for the miniatures, but I don't
find they are much useful. Maybe the giant rats with the
extra movement can be handy sometimes and when you use the
very little units of giant rats just to protect redirect charges
and so. But I'm not very fond on on pack
masters. I, I love my pack masters and I
do use giant rats quite a lot. Similar sort of principle.
Not quite the same, but that's some of the principle to slaves,
you know, they're, they're just a throwaway unit.
Yeah, I know because you're right.
The the the two attacks is not enough for them.
They need more attacks than that.
OK, They've got a weapon skill of four and they've got a
strength of five, which is brilliant toughness of five, you
know, in three wounds. So they'll take a lot of
punishment. Yes, that's right.
They are they are better than normal August, I think, because
they have yeah, and more strength and what does kill as
well, I think. But but but they do suffer from
the same problem that ogres suffer from and sometimes
trolls. It's it's the actual doing
enough wounds to break in an enemy because they don't have
the ranks. And then the Scavengin,
obviously you want ranks to be adding to your leadership.
They don't really have ranks. So, so you know, they're,
they're still suffering from from only leadership 7, which I
know as an empire player, you'll say what's wrong with that or
you know, but you might also say, I know what's wrong with
that. But the the but to use a trick
that handrick keeps going on about scavenger for giant for
rat ogres only if they have 4 attacks.
Hello. Yeah, it's again.
It's the getting enough attacks in that something gets through.
If you can hit with those attacks, you'll hit.
If you hit with, you know, three out your four, they don't have
one particular 4. Remember if you can hit with
three out the four with that strength should kill off most
armour saves unless you're Knights.
They are going to do damage but it is it is trying to get those
attacks to hit and land and do enough damage that they're
worthwhile. Models wise the 4th edition ones
I have I hated them when they first came out because they look
goofy and but now I kind of see their charm.
But for me, the the Rat Ooga models for me are the like most
of the skate and you know, it's Jesse's originals that that I
have and I include and I love to bits.
I love those. Is that the tiny ones in
comparison? Well, yeah, yeah.
Compared exactly in comparison at the time they were big.
When they came out they were big.
But in comparison now, yeah, they they are very small
compared with what came after. I mean, even later Rat Ogres are
kind of smaller than the 4th edition ones.
The 4th edition ones were huge, but they just didn't look ratty
enough to me. And they were, they were and
they were a comedy unit as well. They looked comical.
So I didn't like that at the time.
Now I see the charm and I wish I had some.
Whether I would use them, I don't know.
It's more I think I want to own some to own some, if that makes
sense. Sure, yeah.
I I kind of like them, but I don't have enough for unit yet.
I feel connecting right. So talking about the comical
sides, maybe we can just segue into the Doom Wheel if we go
into the War Machine section. I'm not going to.
I think that's a bit divisive the the wheel, I guess that
impression at least. So what do you think?
I'm not making comments. Well, I, I, I, OK, I love the
minutes and I love the concept, you know, the, the, the rats in
the wheel and. The wheel.
Yeah absolutely love it. My problem with dung wheel is
usually my engineer gets skills from simple shoots.
Archers or. Cables or something will kill my
engineer and they my doom will will crash into my units.
So usually that that uses to happen but I have seen in a
tournament the doom will killing a dragon, a vampire on a dragon
on some dragon. So.
We can do a lot of a lot of damage or it can do nothing, but
I love the meat. I love the question.
And I think maybe if you came from 3rd edition, yes, my theory
with the more maybe more serious tone and you go into 4th
edition, that becomes rather silly.
But if you start with 4th edition, I mean, you don't have
that sort of preconception last things.
So I don't mind it. I can see why you would if you
want to keep a serious tone, maybe that will break it a bit,
but it's not so much keeping a serious tone overall.
It's just I think the I understand why the model looks
the way it does and it's a fun model, but it looks stupid.
I don't mind the model being fun.
Yeah, so for the similar reason similar reason for the for the
rat ogres. You know, I just don't like that
aesthetic on my so I like having a fun army.
They just looked too goofy. The only thing I will comment
about the do well really I'm going to try not to knock it too
much because I know people do love them.
The only comment I'm going to make about it is there was a
article in one of the journals was a letter someone wrote in
and 5 minutes left, but someone wrote in and complained that
their opponent, their friend, they played, used to take the
term warlock engineer literally and used to give him a spell.
It would never ever have occurred to me to do.
If I did use it, I wouldn't have thought he was a spell casting.
No, I don't Wallach engineer. He just wouldn't have occurred
to me. Someone obviously did they and
they had multiple doom wheels and used multiple wallach
engineers in that sense. So yeah, that's a little bit of
a of a of a rules break there, I think.
But yeah, Dingwell just doesn't do.
Yep, Yeah, I kind of like it, I said, and I used it if Josh is
listening now on a remote game against him.
And it was horribly effective, actually sort of sneakily had
the grey college spells. So I had grey wings.
I think the one power spell that could zoom the doom wheel around
the battlefield that will. So it's really about wrecked his
entire army. Yeah, sneaky, sneaky.
That's even. That's Caven.
Sneaky's Caven, right. So then we have the screaming
bell if we try to finish up the War Machine section.
Fun thing, you know, I like it. Random elements like a screaming
bell. But see, that's fun, but not
comical. Again, I don't like comical, but
the model doesn't look comical, if that makes sense.
That's so I quite like it. I've not really used what I do
own one. I've I've kind of started
paying. I haven't finished it.
It doesn't it doesn't fit into the third edition aesthetics.
I haven't really done it, but I am going to get it done at some
point and I will try it out. Khandra, I'm sure you've used
one plenty of times. Well, I use it in big models
because I like to deploy the, the model and so, and depending
much on the, on the bistro's in the, in the ringing the bell, it
can do sometimes very surprising things like destroying all your
empire opponent cannons. And so that's but in little
battles, 2000 points or so, I have never used it because it's
many to to cost, you know, cost too much.
Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of stuff
you need to add together scheming that you need to have
the the units and you need a grace here.
So it's obviously going to cost you in the end.
And I don't find it that powerful.
And it becomes more powerful the bigger the battle is, you know?
Yeah, since it affects the entire battlefield, so that's
supposed to warm. So it's much more powerful, but
I always use it one seat if I'm playing seat.
Then there is the the the bell because you can just break the
castle with ringing the bell. So.
Sneaky. It's confession time in our
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That's Bedroom battlefields.com/voicemail And
now back to the show, right? So we have a few more minutes.
We talked about the warpath role.
I think it's quite effective and it also has the sort of boosted
template rule that anything more than half covered or yeah, more
than half covered is automatically and anything race
is on A4 plus. So that's better than many other
templates. So in that sense it's quite good
if it gets to shoot. And then we have the Jessie.
Yes, my favorite war machine. Not really, it's a war machine
as such. Now.
Yuzil was really interesting. In 3rd they were miniature
cannons and cannons in third were all artillery.
Third was overpowered. They they radically changed
artillery rules in in full petition in 3rd with Yuzil.
He basically lined it up and shot it and every rank it
crossed it, it hit two models automatically.
Now we in Andy's in Andy's article he talks about you've
got to hit with it, but the actual rules as stated in in the
3rd edition rule book don't state you have to roll to hit,
you just rolled to ward. So I don't know if they had a if
this is a bit powerful for 39 points.
Well, bear in mind though, a Canon wasn't that expensive
either. I thought this was a little bit
39 points at the time Yeah, I'll wrap up in a second.
So when they moved to 4th, obviously they made it.
You got a role to hit and they didn't.
They got rid of that whole 22 models per rank, but they're
still really effective mostly against Knights and monsters and
other war machines. Brilliant right.
So let's get into the last part and maybe my favorite part with
this cave. And I really like these special
characters. I must say.
I know, Dave, you're not a fan necessarily of special
characters in I don't say I wouldn't say I don't like.
I generally don't use special characters normally.
I tend to like to use my own characters.
I do like them. I don't dislike them.
Gracie thankful obviously has massive, you know, history
beginning with with Bill King's Scaven's Claw story and then of
course being a regular protagonist in the Gotrich story
as well. Yeah, absolutely.
There's a there's a there's a there's a story with him in, in
the will have a magic as well in the battle man will have a
battle magic. He's in there where he's one of
his. It's either a brother or a
cousin or something like that tries to assassinate him with a
with a rat ogre that they've stitched together.
So there's that story in there and the models again, coming
back to this whole thing, you know, chunky, huge scaven.
I'm afraid it's if they were smaller, I'd I'd probably use
them more. They just stand out far too much
from Jessie's models for me. He's a rich to to use to use
them alongside them, but they are nice.
I'm not going to say they're not nice models.
They are just too big. Yeah, not coming from 3rd
edition. I really love them, so I'm not
going to deny that enemy. Not necessarily rules wise, I
don't care too much about that part.
But yeah, I really think some of them are very cool.
Some of the best special characters in the game, I think.
You know, I'll agree with you 100%.
So what do you think you can do about?
Well, I I love them. I love the background.
I the miniature is true, they are a little too big the
miniatures, but the scalps are great.
Snitches is probably one of my very favorite miniatures in the
game, and Scroll is is brilliant too, so I tend to use them as
normal characters. The miniatures even when they
are a little bit too big, but I use them because I like the
sculpts and I the characters itself.
I like to play them in big battles because I when I started
Warhammer with my friends, it was all about playing the the
biggest amount of special character sequels because we
love them with that. So now for I have kept that that
love for a special character. So not in little battles, but in
big battles. I love to play them.
And when it comes to Scaven and Scaven, I think is they have
some of the best characters in the game.
They're so fluffy and so right. So love them.
Love all of them. Meg my I can choose one favorite
because I love Snake, I love Scrub, I love Thank God, so I'm
all in for the special characters.
Yeah, yeah, all with you. And I haven't analyzed them, you
know, extensively, but most special characters, at least up
to around these omnibooks, they're not exactly overpowered.
You can usually create your own characters that are more
powerful if you really want to. I think that's the case with the
Scaven characters as well. Maybe they have, you know, a few
special rules that set them aside, but I don't.
Maybe squawk can be a little bit nasty external.
Yeah, with the wrath of corruption.
Hey, that, that's. Yeah, I mean, that's maybe a
little bit of the top. I don't know what you think, but
he comes at a cost, of course, so he's not cheap by any means.
He's 400 points and for that's a lot for character, of course.
But yeah, he's maybe, you know, borderline overpowered.
But I think the other ones are OK.
I think there's no argument for all of them being a little bit.
Maybe they are. Well, there are various rules
things like icky claw having access to any.
Yeah, you wants. Yeah, take a grace belt and a
sip to your doom wheel around Yeah.
Now, OK, you pay for it because grace, because thankful is more
expensive, obviously than a normal grace here, but with a
four plus armour safe in effect yeah and the the benefit to warp
to to to the warp tests. That's pretty.
Does he have the actually does
he have? Yeah, she does Blessing
Hordrack. Yeah, So he has that.
So that's that's kind of easy for him because it keeps him
alive. And that's one of the issues
with the grace here. Yes, they're good in combat and
they do have a good number of wins.
Good toughness, but because they I suppose they could take war
Palmer, but strictly speaking, they're quite susceptible as any
wizard is to combat. He kind of used the inception to
the rule that with that rule. So that kind of makes him a bit
better. Throat obviously is nowhere near
overpowered. I can't ever try.
He's overpowered because he really isn't.
No, no. I mean, it's sort of one of the
more bland, I would say. Yes, the model is nice, but it's
not very exciting in that sense. It's not bad when it comes to
it. Snitch, very hard to pin down
and kill. He can get away with doing most
things. So in that sense, he's
overpowered. Is he getting his points back?
Oh, yeah. Well, yeah, no, there is that as
well. Yeah.
Do you make your points back for him?
Good question. But he needs some good targets,
I guess. Yeah, yeah.
And then you get quick. In the right circumstance, he is
an absolute monster. He really is quick.
Well, if you're playing against dwarfs and you take quick, he
will absolutely make his points back.
And he's not too expensive either.
He's no, he's not, no. Fairly cheap, no.
And he, and he's, he's pretty special in that as a character,
as a hero sort of character. Well, Lord, but on the hero
side, not a wizard on it. He can take 4 magic items.
Oh, that's nasty. Exactly.
So you can get you to morph, guard your warps and armour,
then you can take two other items.
Yeah there's there's something very nasty about Quick is being
able to take 4 magic items so you have Edward Google the worst
on armour and then you can have two more Amaika items.
So can be very very nasty build. Yeah, yeah.
And stick them in a unit, you know, like a large unit storm
though, OK, he's expensive to do that.
But stick them in large unit storm, though, I mean, or with
an army standard bearer and you stick banner and might on the
army sand bearer on the on the unit and he's hitting and
wounding on, you know, especially against dwarfs on two
pluses with with four attacks or five attacks or he gives us
extra. 5 backs. Yeah.
And suddenly you're like, oh God, actually he's he is going
to absolutely mince opponents. Yeah, yeah.
So I think against against dwarfs, definitely it would be
if you would be nasty. It's not all to include.
Does the Dwarf Gaucher work against Chaos Wolves?
It's dwarfs, so yeah, I would say so.
And he also has hatred for dwarf Swartz and goblins.
So there's an argument that dwarfs are castwarts are dwarfs.
Yeah, it should be. I mean, if you're extremely
picky, you might argue something.
But yeah. So all of a sudden he's he's
even scarier because he's he's got the hatred.
So for the points, he is actually probably the most
special, most powerful special character out there.
For the points. There are more powerful and
special characters, but they cost an awful lot more.
Yeah, OK, maybe I'll take that back.
Maybe they are a bit overpowered.
The escape I'm mostly comparing to my my empire ones that I'll
mostly send it back. Special power would then
everything's overpowered compared to them, isn't it?
Yeah, yeah. They hardly have any special
rules at all. Most of them, they're just
characters with like one extra leadership, something even
probably more powerful than Carl Franz, who's supposed to be like
the epitome of your special characters.
Yeah, yeah, he's not very special at all.
He has leadership 10 and I think that's pretty much about it.
Anyone can have his hammer. So, yeah, that's sort of one of
the quirks of 4th edition. I mean, you can have A at least
to the did they do something rough on that?
But you could have sort of a goblin run around with sort of
Techlist if you feel like it. He always could.
They they never put the IT was high.
It was only on the card, so anyone could could have the sort
of text. It's absolutely it's it's crazy.
But then again, there's a load of items a bit like that where
they didn't really specify what you think.
Well, that should really, I mean, something like you'd have
thought dwarf couch would be quick only, but it's not OK.
It's even only but you'd have thought it'd be quick only, but
no, anyone can take dwarf couch even if you're not going to use
quick against dwarfs. So you're always taking Dwarf
Coucher. They have a whole bunch lying
around. So.
Well, it's a Crown of Command. It's like that the the we've
said before you there must be some peddler somewhere knocking
out cheap knock offs of the Crown of Command, because every
army seems to have it. Well, every scraven army, if
you're right in dwarves will have Dwarf gowger.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that's an item that's
obviously going to help Scraven or pretty much any army.
So the Crown of Command, I don't know if Yoshi is here, but I
suppose he would sing his praise.
It's a great name for a podcast. But as a magic item.
But yeah, no, it's, it's far too much use.
And Scaven actually really, so long as you are careful, you
don't really need it because you have the bonuses to the rank.
Obviously, if you are fighting someone who is shooting an awful
lot, you will lose a lot of ranks.
You have to be a little bit careful there.
But generally speaking, you don't really need it.
So, you know, but people still take it.
And I certainly did as well. You know, in my younger days I
did. But I think in later years, you
know, the last few years, it certainly wouldn't be a first
choice item for me. I'd, I'll rely upon the ranks to
give me my bonuses to my leadership.
Yeah. And I think in general these
days, I'm sort of with you on the magic item use, you know,
more overall that I'm trying to use cheaper items and maybe try
out some of the not so popular ones just to get a bit of
variation. And sometimes I even do it
entirely randomly. I just, you know, yeah, IA lot
50 points and I draw an item on at random and see.
Oh, OK, let's try this one because I mean tailoring the
items to, you know, get specific bonuses and mixing them up.
It's yeah, I don't know, I don't not too keen on that one.
I I do kind of do that, but with lower level items, I don't tend
to deal with high level items. And in that fact, my, my regular
opponent, yeah. I don't know if I'm going to
play 4th edition with them anymore because they've
definitely made their feelings knowing about my my abilities to
combo lesser value magic items. So which one is your favorite?
Oh, little things. Like I've already said,
Barramite, that's an expensive item in my book, but it's
definitely one I take for most of my armies.
You combine that with things like strength bonuses and doing
multiple wounds, but that kind of thing, just stacking them in
that sense, Yeah. Yeah. 1, three.
Yeah. Yeah.
Exactly. Or again with undead, he
absolutely detests the doom right in a banner because you're
here automatically. But if you don't have it
unlikely to hit so it's a damn you know, you take it because
it's an obvious choice and that's one of his problems with
this is an obvious choice. So yeah, there you go.
They made it. It's yeah.
So your your take on that handle do include a lot the full
allotment of medic items or more restrictive.
OK, so we're playing with my friends.
Sometimes we are. Sticking to 50 points or less
items that I have found for Skyman, 50 points or less items
are great. I always include the warp Storm.
Squirrel is one of my very favorite for flying creatures.
And then when he's landing you can shoot him with the desires.
So his group and Skyrim real of course, and bands of Power
Storm. Demon.
Scam even for sometimes for your for your races.
So they scaling have some very very cool items less than 50
points. And that is of.
Course, if you go for if you go for more expensive items, then
sometimes it's funny to to try the third blade.
Why not? And I think every scaling player
should try third blades at least once.
That's fun because you know this Kevin don't used to be that
powerful, but then becomes a monster.
Killer. So that's funny and I said
before the the worst on time for your grace here.
I think it's mandatory for the for rerolling the failed warp
test. So how about putting a scathing
character on a flying monster? Is that OK or is that totally
uncharacteristic? Yeah, I wouldn't do it.
I don't have an issue if someone wants to do it, but I personally
wouldn't do it. It's not my cup of tea sticking
a Steven onto 1. I probably wouldn't include
monsters, Obviously the rats. We didn't mention that rat
swarms 50 points for a rat swarm.
That's probably the only thing really I would take from the
monster section typically in my scavenger army.
But you know, if the scenario called for something else, then
I'd I'd consider it. You know, you can have a hairy,
you know, the, the, the goblin spiders, the character ones,
they're quite hairy. You can maybe paint them a bit,
you know, Browns as opposed to blacks or Reds or something like
that. So you could have those that,
that might fit in quite nicely. You can go out for harpies.
They, you know, the, the 4th edition models for harpies, a
little bit rat like little bit, if you squint and use your
imagination, they're a little bit rat like.
But that's not the Mogga Thatcher and those ones.
No, not those ones. No, no, no, no.
They they're well, you could argue she's a rat, but yeah, but
let's not go there, political things aside.
But generally speaking, no. I suppose you could argue the
Manti, the the the Dieter's manticore.
That's kind of hairy. Obviously the man have a feel of
that done in muted Browns that might fit.
But generally speaking, I just, I just don't think they
necessarily fit the feel of the Army.
Yeah, I use carpets regularly. For, you know, for hunting.
Can you, if you extremely gay me put a vermin Lord on a monster?
I don't know if you can, because I think he's got the ability to
do that, whereas heroes it states doesn't it about monsters
way round doesn't have a way round.
Yeah, that would have been weird.
Yeah, yeah. I thought, yeah.
Him, him. A vermin Lord with with skid.
Sleep is what you want. Terrifying.
Then. Yeah, that's bad enough.
All right, So, like, we reached the end of the army book, at
least. Any final thoughts?
Or, you know, how How does one get into collecting today?
That's a topic we seldom have time to address.
But if you're a new player, where should you go?
You. We talked about other producers,
not GW necessarily. I guess some of the plastic ones
are relatively cheap still, but otherwise it's going to be
costly. Yeah, it is.
If you're going to go for collecting Jazz Goodwin Original
Scaven, yeah, it's going to cost you a fortune.
Just on that note. I did a few years ago.
I joined a scavenger group on Facebook and I started posting
up photos of my Jews Goodwin Scaven and I had comments about
they're not Scaven from kind of younger players.
It's kind of these are these are these Scaven, these are
worshipping. These are the origins of Scaven
and they are very different now. You know they are they you
started pulling them back towards you know yours yet the
multi part ones that were that were kind of a bit more monkey
ish almost. Yeah.
They kind of tried to pull them a little bit back with the
Island of blood scathing and that sort of those kind of
scathing from that time. And they're the ones typically
you get these days, I think. But they're just not the same.
I'm just as a nostalgic idiot, so, you know.
Yeah. But it's kind of fun, you know,
saying, no, that's not scathing. Well, but yeah, no, just those
comments were just like, oh, where do you get these?
Where are they from? Who produced these?
Yeah, what? Yeah.
And I think as with, you know, if you're you're on and about
yourself, you, you can find deals, obviously if you're
lucky, maybe eBay, maybe local Facebook markets.
I think that's where I had the most success if I have had some
and of course there are other ways as well.
You if you're not you know particular about where you get
the models. I mean 3D printing is the thing
now obviously that you can get recourse as well, of course, and
I don't think we mind them too much.
But the country, if you purist considered you mentioned 3D
printing often considered could you get those characters and
shrink them down a little bit to put them they might my eyes then
I didn't. I didn't bring up.
I was thinking about no, no, no, just, you know, theoretically.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Just just theoretically.
That's all I'm thinking about. If someone want to make it less
theoretical, maybe, you know, hook up Dave and to see what you
have. I can't myself honest, but yeah,
I mean, obviously probably there if you're going to go for them
for chess Scaven, as I think any scheme collector should really,
you're looking at probably a slow burn project, you know,
picking up with you here or there until you've got enough to
make a unit. Probably it's going all out in
one go is probably a very, very expensive way of doing it.
And as you said, you might find collector's win to sell, sell a
fair few in one go, that sort of thing.
If you're lucky, Mantic do some, but they're kind of hulking
monstrosities. Again, it's back to the big kind
of scathing mantics version. And then there's a few other
manufacturers that do rat men, obviously, and there was always
the black tree design and I don't know how many they still
sell at the moment. I mean, getting them delivered
is a bit of an issue. Yeah, you should be impatient.
At least you could take you a year or something.
They they certainly do something you could use.
They've got very big weapons, very big weapons indeed.
And that's not a reference to anything else.
That's not something else that sounded like they'll have a Mace
and like the the actual Mace head is huge and it's it's
bigger than their head, that sort of thing.
But they're they're not bad. They're but as as alternatives
scave and go they are. They were a contemporary to 4th
edition scave and you can easily substitute them in for those and
Kondo. Is it all DW view or do you have
some other? Well I I have AI have a problem
with Scaven affair 5th edition. I don't really like them.
I I like some individual models but.
For you know, some of them are great like laters, mate, it's a
great mania to them So, but they don't I don't like when I put
them together with my older ones.
So I usually stick fortunately back in the day, as I said, I
got a huge amount of yes, good wins for a very, very good
price. So and then I pay a little
higher prices for some more, but I have a lot of them then.
So I try to stick to to orders coming from 4th edition and back
and. I have some plastics for for I
think it was 7th edition and this later plastic flat rats and
in very big bottles I can use them but I.
Don't really like when I mix so well.
It's a matter of tasters. Newer players like better than
us Kevin and it's alright. To each to each his own.
You know, there is there is nothing objective about testers.
But when it comes to me, I like the older ones and I I play the
older ones and where the all the other manufacturers this Mantic
all all this independent, I have never seen one I really like.
None of them are resemble the older ones, the just woodwinds
or Colin Dixon. So I don't really like them.
Fair enough. So are you set or are you still
collecting, still looking out for more?
Not, not really. I have already.
Maybe if I if I found one day one good deal for more slaves or
more Klangas, I'll absolutely go with it.
But this is not likely to happen nowadays, so by the moment I
have enough. I even have.
Do you know the death miniature? Yes, Goodwins, the death one.
You know, it's a very rare. One, but it's I think it's from
the second wave of scabbing. It's just a scab.
If I guess would win scabbing which is death.
Do you know it? Oh, the oh, the casualty.
No, I don't. Actually, I don't.
I own one I I even own 1, so my collection is full.
I I have said I have at least one of its original death
goosens, including death, death including the the older yeah and
rats. So I think I have enough.
But do you have a space scaver? No, no, I don't have a space
scaver. No, no, no, have a space.
Don't, No, don't have the engineer, the one with the big
gear, you know, don't have that one either.
No, I've got some original space scaver in a sense that no one
else has the well, they might actually, but but they'll have
had to do what what we did. We've got some.
Do you remember the plastic Imperial Guard kit, the first
plastic Imperial Guard kit multi part, some of them with with
Warhammer regiment scave and heads on top rather than a human
head. So they are original scave
ending space. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've seen a
few, yeah. On the topic of am I still
collecting? I do still, if I see a deal,
I'll go for it and still pick, pick up some more.
I don't need to. But it depends on your
definition of need. Do I need them?
No. Do I need them?
Yes. But when I I mean I said I
bought a load back in the 90s, but not as many as I would need
for a proper full ledged army. I started buying plastics after
that, like the multi parts and the Harlequin ones.
Black tree slash Harlequin sold off the majority of those kept
the kept the it's still ones. And then when Oldhammer was
still kind of an online cult before it went huge where it
exploded, we discovered eBay. And so I was picking up, you
know, a bunch of miniatures for about a pound time.
So they were dirt cheap on eBay at the time.
So I built up my scathing army really at that point and got
them for dirt cheap, probably less than what you'd have paid
in the 80s for scathing. So really good prices.
And then we went and started shouting about old Hammer, and
everyone joined, jumped on the bandwagon.
And now eBay is ridiculous, as we all know.
So we shot ourselves in the foot with popularity there.
Really, we should have kept our mouth shut.
It's not cheap whole battle right?
So any finishing thoughts or comments This I don't know if
Josh is back if he has anything to add.
I know he did have escaping army but he I believe he got rid of
it and now he's regretting it. That's we all do when we lose
our armies. So I believe he's working on
recreating that one. So actually, I'm going to resend
some. I had to do that.
Some plastic, I think it's slaves and glam rats that he
gave me a couple of years ago. He sent me a whole bunch of
plastic ones. So he's going to get some of
them back now. Yeah, I, I need to send him
some. I've got some.
I've got excess of etch in models, which I'm going to part
with a few of them to Josh, just to say, you know, thank you for
all you do for us and I keep doing what you do.
Really. The last word for about scathing
for me really is as Andy puts in his article, OK, so 3rd edition
article that he puts in there. The only real tactic you have
with them is charge. Yeah.
And you can do.
Do you have any opting thoughts? Well, we, I think we have been
planning pretty extensive on the subject.
So I don't don't really don't really need to have something.
Just if anybody is thinking about collecting scabbing, I
would very, very strongly encourage to collect scabbing
because for me it's the funnest army.
It has endless choices you have, you can play, you can go full
pestilence, full mother mix. There are a lot of characters.
So so it's my favorite, my favorite army.
I have 8 armies in different races, but I always come back to
skating because they are very rewarding.
They are very expensive to collect the the hundreds of
hours of painting before hundreds of hours, endless
painting, but it's really rewarding.
For me it's the most rewarding army.
So as I said, a lot of times I absolutely love them.
So I encourage everybody to collect and play this game.
That's very magnanimous of you and it's a brilliant thing to
say. I'm going to do the opposite.
I'm encouraging not to collect them.
So demand goes down and the price goes down.
Oh, yeah, Yeah, good point. Selfish, I know, but there we
go. Both excellent points.
Maybe. And those was a bit more noble.
What do you expect? Yeah, absolutely, Vicky.
Right. So thanks a lot for joining up
and thanks to Josh for hosting and participating a little bit
at least. Cool.
So what's next? Which one?
Chaos. So that chaos.
Very interesting one. Really.
I've played quite, I've played Chaos, but not extensively.
So we're going to need some volunteers run out there that's
listening. And they've they've played a lot
of 4th edition Chaos. Make yourself known.
Do you have a chaos on me? Yeah, but I started in 5th
edition when they split Bizmen, Warriors and Demos.
So so I have never played really 4th edition Chaos but yes.
That was my second. Yeah, and it could be a a big
episode. And if you're going to go into
third edition, and I don't know if we do with Chaos, I don't I
Yeah, I think that could be a rabbit hole not to be gone down
either. That would be the separate
session just about. Yeah, I think so.
That's a big one. But I think it's definitely
something we're talking about. I mean, those books are are
quite lovely, but are those somewhat confusing, stunning
books? Yeah, confusing.
And also, there's far too much to cover in, you know, we go
over on this one. I mean, this is, you know, we've
been recording for, what, 3 hours now?
Three, 3-4 hours, Three hours. Yeah.
I think probably, I think Josh might want to consider doing a
Realms of Chaos separate edition 3rd edition thing so we could
possibly touch upon Chaos in 3rd edition.
Say there are specialist books, they were in Warhammer armies,
they were very basic in Warhammer armies.
And then go into the 4th edition thing and then let Josh to have
a nice specialist Realms of Chaos 3rd edition chat with
people who are much more knowledgeable.
I know I can probably give you a few good contacts for that one.
Josh sounds good mate, look forward to that.
Yeah, from the old Hammer community, you know, or either
that or Goth could as well. Either one of us could give you
some some good house contacts. I'm in the mood for old Hammer,
I can tell you now. Yes, I know.
Yeah. My brother say he's seen your
your invite. I don't know if he's accepted
it, the friend invite, but he's seen it and he says he's up for
it. So yeah, he's up for having a
chat with me. I might not join for that one
because otherwise we'll end up arguing, OK?
We definitely have to have you both on then, that's for sure.
OK, right. So you have a bit of your work
set up for editing on this one, I think, but.
I think so. I think it's 8:00 and out on
dinner yet, so I don't think I'll have to be.
Yeah. Cool.
So we'll wrap it up and thanks again, Pandu, for joining.
Yeah. Thank you very much.
For letting me join, thank you. Very much, Andrew.
Thank. You very much thank.
You thanks everyone. Have a good day.