Right, so here we are again. And we have a guest today, a
special guest, Ted. Hello, Ted.
Hello. And Dave is here again, of
course. I am hello.
Hello. And today, since we're coming up
towards the the magical season of Christmas, it's of course
fitting that we do another episode of the Magic Deep Dives.
And well, is it a cosy Christmas magic we're going to talk about?
Well, maybe not, but it's certainly magic.
So we will handle 3 decks today and we'll look at the Dark
Magic, the Necromantic, and the Chaos Dwarf Magic.
So that's what we're going to look at and I think we're going
to start with Dark Magic today. And well, what can you say about
Dark Magic? It's I guess the opposite of
high magic, you know, sort of the magic wheel in a sense.
Do you guys have the experience of using Dark Magic?
I don't, but I will when I start playing my Dark elf now on me.
Yeah, I've, I've used it a bit, mostly as a secondary deck for
my own dead, and I've used it with Chaos Rises as well.
I, you know, like you. I'm going to be starting to use
a dark help for me soon because I'm about to paint one up.
So, yeah, I've got a I've got a passing knowledge of it, as it
were. It's it's it's not a primary
deck that I've used previously, yes, as a secondary deck.
And it's it's it's rather powerful.
The spells are quite nasty, very lots of a tough Achilles spells,
definitely a violent deck. And obviously the Wizards can
put back special cards, special wings and magic cards, and
that's by definition anything that's not a power card.
Yeah, I noticed that as well. I I didn't think before that
dispel cards were actually special cards, but they are, so
yeah. So I can put back those to get
more power cards. So it's, yeah, it's, it's a.
In your face, yeah. Instructive deck.
Yeah, it's not subtle. Nope, absolutely not.
And we will get into that a bit. But and who could use it?
Well, dark, obviously. And on that, and who else was
it? Anyone else could chaos.
Chaos, Yeah, Chaos can use it. And if memory serves, I think a
great game, The Horn Track can use it as well.
Yeah, yeah, the yeah. Escape Wizards can't but but a
great deal of Horned Rat certainly can.
And I suppose I when we play that, I don't think the chaos
players use it very often. But I mean, you could of course.
And apart from that, of course, anyone who used the quite common
Book of Astro could use it as well.
We do that sometimes. It's must have been printed in
in a lot of Oops. It's quite yes, the the imperial
printing press must have must have gone over time and up
copies of copyright laws fresher must be he must be getting a lot
of money out of that. I'm, I'm guessing you know,
royal images and stuff like that because there's a lot of them
knocking around. Yeah, solid item.
We we will, I suppose at some point go into the medic items.
Probably not, you know, item by item.
That's going to take too long, but that will be an upcoming
thing. Ted, have you?
Played any? Yeah, but in 5th edition I used
Dark Elps for a bit so I used dark magic like them and I don't
have any particular memories of it other than playing in a
tournament once and yeah, only having our level 1 wizard and
rolling up Doom Bolt. I had so and I remember the
other guy didn't have any whistle, I think.
So my guy had free reign, more or less, but he cast it nearly
every turn and basically wiped out the black ork unit, weakling
it down every turn, casting Doom bolt every time.
That's one thing I remember, yeah.
Yeah, going into 4th or 5th edition battles, unless you were
at Wolf of course, without Magician, was brave.
I suppose you could say even more so in 4th edition, because
you would get Medic thrown on at you, both your own and your
opponent's tongue. Yep, I guess you could, but that
could result in stuff like that. So if we look at the actual
spells, there's 10 and seven are the actual dark magic spells,
and three are the necromatic spells.
So for those of you who don't recall, they initially had the
necromatic spells, the three necromatic spells as part of the
dark magic set. And where did when did they get
their own the proper necromatic? That was when they brought the
dog, the dark elf, sorry, the undead book out so and at that
time they split out those they removed those 3 spells from the
dark magic deck and replace them with a further three, one of
which is kind of similar. Come on to that later.
But it always was a little bit of a giveaway if you were a dark
magic user that the two different sort of the, the extra
3 cars included in arcane Magic were slightly different backing,
not as in the picture, but just generally the, the, the quality
of the card was slightly different.
So if you're a keen eyed opponent, you could watch
actually, if as they were dealing out their car, their
Magic cards were, were one of them a bit shinier, was one
little bit of a, of a deeper hue.
Then he didn't quite stand in with the other cards in the
depth. You know, he's definitely got
one of those other ones. Looking at the cards, the front
of the cards, actual descriptions, then the three
different, the three new ones have slightly different
colouration on the front side. They've got some like a red,
red, I know the most of the black line, that sort of thing.
But they're not, you know, they're cosmetic differences,
but visible. If you if you're an eagle eyed
opponent, you can keep an eye and try to figure out when I got
one of those by by those means. OK.
Yeah, your tip row tip from Dave.
So maybe you should sleeve your card son to avoid that.
All right, so I guess we'll look into the original 7 and I can
add the the other three after that.
So yeah, they had the Iridium ones were four power 32 power
two and one power 1. So fairly how high power level
those? And the first one, I guess it's
the only spell that doesn't actually cause damage to your
opponent because like Dave said, they are very offensive.
There's no, like a lot of other decks have, you know, trying to
buff your own units in some way or hindering your opponent,
whether it's one that does that sort of, but it also damage so
very much in your face offensive stuff.
But they have one, the Witch Flight, which is the stock
standard movement spell or you're cast.
Nothing special about that at all, I think.
Just different versions of the same thing that pretty much all
decks have or most of decks have, right?
So then we have the Doom Bolt that Ted had you put to good
effect. Also fairly standard magic
missile I think. Is it Jade that has one that is
fairly similar? So what this one does, it hits
the first model in its path 18 inches and it does D6 strength
five hits. Unless it's a sheriff's stone
thrower building or similar construction.
I don't know why they say stone thrower instead of just all
machine would have been easier. In which case it's AD 6 strength
10. Is it the green I or something?
What's? What is it called?
Absolutely that that that re offensive deck that has a very
nasty spell in it. The Jade, yes, it's pretty much
the same rules, yeah. So yeah, I mean solid, you know,
you always have useful very good range.
So yeah, then we have the other power 2, which is Blade Wind,
which is also a magic missile. I suppose you could call it
range 24. And it's a little bit different.
I think when you break down these statistics, I don't think
it's that much different to some of the other magic missiles that
are around. So what this one does is 24 inch
range causes 3D six hits minus weapon skill.
So that would, if you do like an average unit of weapon scale
three, that will cause about 878 hits and then you would cause a
wound on A4 plus. So I mean against the normal
unit you will cause maybe 3 full wounds.
So not anything spectacular, I think, but it's solid.
It does allow safe so so against the like high armored troops, it
would probably not cause too many wounds.
But yeah, it could be effective against the something with high
toughness and low weapon skill. If you find that sort of
opponent, it's probably good you're.
Good against goblins maybe? Yeah, could be.
Definitely weapons skill 2. Best against something like like
trolls or rat oogas or something like that.
He's OK. Yeah.
I do lots of wounds in order to kill one, but as you said, they
tend to have sort of weapons skill of 3:00-ish obviously, and
then you negate the toughness bonus that they will have.
Yeah, I don't know, like giants. Do they have 4 weapons skills?
Maybe not I. Think they have 3.
Yeah, good against them, but not roll high on the number of hits.
That's that's the point. If you're rolling low on the
number of hits, then you're not going to do that much damage,
are you? Because you've got to get
through. This is the weapon skill factor.
Then there's the four plus. So yeah, if you're rolling high
on the on the number of hits, then you're probably on to a
good thing with Blade Wind. Yeah, but I don't think it's
that much different if you take, there are some other spells but
myself that do use the two D6 and then we'll be gone A4 plus I
think that's really much to the same.
Statistically, yes, yeah, same sort of thing.
Obviously the lower weapons skill on the higher you roll and
there's a greater average to. Yeah, yeah, it is a wider
spread. So if you roll really well you
can cause massive distraction, but the average would even have
to pretty much. OK, then we go into the the big
hitters and there's one the maledictation of Nagash Had to
look up. What is a maledictation?
It's sort of a curse, I suppose. Is it a word you use a lot, Dave
in your? No.
Not for daylight, not in. Your daily life?
Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, I mean,
malady is being sick. So it's it's a sick, cursed
thing. So French malicious bad stuff?
Basically, yeah, yeah, I guess an old fashioned word, but yeah,
because of my gosh, if you want to be more, more.
Sounds very cool at least. It does, yes.
And that's definitely a thing that I, I think a lot of those
spells, if you compare to the 5th edition battle magic, boring
stuff. Also with the college magic
spells, they have wonderful innovative names.
So I definitely appreciate that. Yeah, and, and especially dark
manic I, I really love the the names of the spells.
They they sound really powerful. They do, and most of them have
some sort of connection to some character.
But of course, like Ash is very much known.
A few others are, you know, who knows who they are, but maybe
it's some, there's some piece of law somewhere mentioning them, I
don't know. Like, well, he it was.
It was really kind of an idea at that point.
I don't think they knew exactly who Nagash was at that point.
So but he's the only, he's the only characters have two spells
named after him. So the dictation of Nagash in
the dark magic deck, which hardly should go into the undead
deck, but the undead deck has gays of Nagash.
Oh. Yeah.
Yeah, it's got 2 Nagash spells and obviously he's always got
the Clore of Nagash as well. So there's, there are, you know,
he's he's already shaping up to be quite an important character
in, in two spells and one magic item.
So he's technically he's one spell and one magic item.
He's yeah, so cool. And the one he has in this
Iranian deck, you see, as we said, the male dictation and
that one is sort of combined and damaged and hindering your
opponents. So very good range.
That's 6 inches, that's solid. And it will render the opponent
unable to shoot or move, which is good of course.
And also they would get a -. 2 penalty to weapon skill and
initiative. So yeah, combine that with blade
wind, a lot of power to do that, but could be good.
And finally, they also suffer one day three wounds.
So there's several things in in one package.
So I guess, yeah, that's quite good.
I mean, compared to it's a bit more expensive compared to, yes,
the holding spell, but of course it does more than that.
So yeah, I guess not bad. Yeah, it's it's a solid spell,
plus a lot to get off as you said, but has has multiple uses
and and really doesn't basically render a year useless.
Yeah, and all. Not unlimited range, but 36 will
be pretty pretty much anyway. Doesn't prevent caustic.
Some of those spells do, but this one doesn't.
So that's a slight downside perhaps.
Right. So then we have another of those
lovely names. The Arnisipals lack horror.
I have no idea who Arnisipal is if he's ever mentioned again,
but nasty dude I would assume. If he's mentioned again, it's
like some really, really random obscure kind of mentioned that
someone's done a call back to him, you know, not in later
editions. But I don't think he's in, I
don't think he's mentioned otherwise in in fourth for sure.
I think we can be pretty sure that they didn't create a full
story about it, but it is oh cool name, let's do that right?
So and this one, I guess the closest analogue to this one
would probably be the Purple Sun.
Fairly similar. It has random range of 46.
I guess the template would be same size.
I think the round template and anything it touches will die
unless they roll under their strength.
So definitely devastating. I would say slightly less so
than the Purple Sun because that.
Depends, because if you're hitting something with strength
3, it's two. It's basically 3 plus to kill as
opposed to purple sun which is 4 plus.
It's only the highest strength. It's the purpose on three plus.
I. Think is it?
Oh, I think it is. Thanks.
Then it's it's the same unless they're higher strength then.
Yeah, I'm going to shift that, but I'm fairly sure that oops
son is actually. I will, I will bow down to
acknowledge on it because you are an Empire player, so you've
probably used it a lot more than I've.
Yeah. So they are yeah, 3 plus so
yeah. So the only time that this one
will be better if is if you find something with the strength 2
and there was some like 2 but of course yeah.
But the purpose one will be a lot better against high strength
enemies because that would kill a great demon as easily as
Halfling. So.
But still very devastating. Of course you don't want that
one in your units. So yeah, what do you expect from
a power three? I guess, you know, just total
destruction. Then we have another pretty cool
one that will make a fairly similar appearance much later.
The transformation of Cordon. Also a random name I guess.
Which no, he's not. He actually does have mention
yeah, he is a necromancer king in all in bygone years, he found
he was one of the first people to find the gashes crown and he
created a Kingdom in some of the Badlands or the border Princess,
a couple of which one it is. But yeah, he and he ruled for a
very long time, apparently. But pre Sigma, so quite a long
time ago. And then he also, that's the
civilisation that Vlad apparently knew quite a lot
about, and he learnt a lot of his necromantic arts from from
the Kodon dynasty. Oh sorry my my poor historical
knowledge on that one. Yeah, sorry, being an undead
scholar, an undead scholar, that sounds terrible, you know what I
mean? But being a neck that supplier.
So read the book a few times, it's in there.
So. Oh.
Yeah, yeah, excellent. So actually it's a solid back
story. Sorry, Colon, I I didn't tell
your leg. I did.
That solid. There's not huge amounts written
about him, but yeah, he he is. They do give him a create him as
a character as he were, but he's one of the game.
Most of the spells they don't create the characters from so
you know. Yeah, so this one does is it
will transform the wizard into a beast, Chimeromatic or Hydra or
fibre. So yeah, OK, that's good.
Of course, if you expect to and close combat or if you want to
fly around, perhaps. But of course the downside is
you won't be able to cost any spells.
So yeah. And it can be dispelled.
So just going into the heat of battle and suddenly have it
dispelled will perhaps be a little bit dangerous.
So I think that one needs to be planned properly if you want to
do that. In practical terms, you need the
blooming model as well. So you haven't got one.
Yeah. It's kind of a bit of a wasted
spell, really, Yeah. But of course, you have all the
the monsters who doesn't? I mean, that's.
You have riders on, you're going to use a use a vivo with a great
ride. And I don't know which one is,
that's probably an antique or came in the era.
I think, yeah, if you want to, they all fly.
So Vivo is probably not the best choice of those.
But if you, that's the one you have.
Doesn't fly. So that's that's the one, that's
the one different one in there, isn't it?
If you turn into a Hydra, you can't fly around, so you're
probably not going to become a Hydra.
This is the only model you've got.
That's never right. Or.
Obviously, yeah. I mean giving away your entire
magic ability. Of course if you have AI.
Guess this one would be best to use if you have a like a level 1
and you can get the one off. Awesome level one.
That's fantastic. But taking away your level 4
from the entire magic face, a bit desperate measured.
And this one was sort of reimagined much later.
I don't think it was in 6th, but in 8th the Amber deck had one
that looked a bit like that. Some sort of transformation?
I don't remember the name actually, but has anyone used it
or experienced it? Usually early doors of 4th, but
because I didn't really use dark magic that much, it would only
be one that I'd put back because, you know, everyone's
trying to get Dingbolt. Let's be honest with the oral
sports black horror, if you dealt that, you tend to put it
back and well, yeah, I would. And obviously we've done dead
all about it and I'm not transforming one of my own dead
Wizards because they're too valuable to, you know, to to
throw it unless he said, you know, you take a level 1 and
have some fun with him. You know, The thing is, are we
going to die as a monster if he's a level 1?
Ted, I have to. Remember the tournament I
mentioned? I had a level one with third and
in 5th edition you couldn't exchange spells if I remember
correctly so I was just hoping Do not draw transformation of.
Candle. Because I didn't have the model
with SO, but I didn't so. But I in one game I did drop
which flight which was utterly useless with level 1.
Yeah, because you want to apply somewhere.
I didn't know what to do with it.
Yeah, so he didn't do anything that game.
Yeah, that's bad luck. But yeah, one of the not so
straightforward spells you you need to plan properly for a
term. As you said, they probably one
of those that you would exchange unless you really want to become
a monster. And then we have the final one,
soul drain, which is put into the string.
It's called a Storm of Dark Magic and you have a sold drink
template. I suppose it's the regular size
template. I don't have it before me.
Yeah, yeah, it's the normal round.
Yeah. So maybe all the spells are it's
it's got a storm on it. It's kind of like it ends up
they they end up doing the. I think they use the same
template for 40K for Nigel Storm Caller, his special signature.
Makes sense? Psychic power?
Yep. So and then it works pretty much
like a normal template in the sense that if you're more than
half covered, you suffer strength for heat and for every
two wounds you get a wound back for the wizard.
So, I mean, I guess a lot of times that part will be won't do
much because, I mean, yeah, you could be wounded, of course, but
it's not a part of your plan, I suppose.
But yeah, could be good, I suppose, if you can do it, yeah.
For that one I don't. I don't think they clarified it
in Arcade Magic, but the wording on the card sounds like you can
just keep on adding wounds to it.
There's a London 1. He can.
He can only take you up to your original number.
But that doesn't say that. He just says he gains A wound.
Yeah. So in theory you can end up with
a guy with like huge number of wounds.
Yeah. And I think I, I would say it's
always dangerous to say that's not what they intended.
But I, I don't think that was what they would have intended.
It's not in line with what they would say later on, certainly.
So yeah, I don't think there's anything else in both edition
that allows you to do that. Is it to actually raise your
base statistics with spells or anything like that?
No, but I don't. Permanently.
Stated either that you can't. So yeah, it it certainly, that's
what I'm saying. It doesn't say that it it
return, you know, you could only gain the number of wounds that
you had. So say you've lost two wounds,
you can restore 2 wounds. It doesn't say that, it says he
gains A wound. So therefore in principle it's
it's saying that you can go above your base characteristic
on wounds. I just looked up the 5th edition
and here it says that it may take him above his starting
level. Wounds.
Oh, OK, cool, cool yeah and I remember someone you've seen in
was it maybe that was the same 5th edition then the to use it
with the bid and rod yeah, all that stuff just.
Don't need for the rods in general, but yeah, yeah.
So that wasn't nice. Yeah.
So those are the seven original ones.
And then like you said, there were three more coming in that
was released with the Arcane Medic, and that was the dark end
of Destruction. So they got one of those hand to
hand things and, well, just if you hit your opponent, you do D3
wounds and no normal saves. No saves.
Yeah. So there are a lot of versions
of these for a lot of decks. I don't know how this one rates,
but yeah, OK. You know not.
Too bad, I guess it doesn't rely on strength, toughness, certain
things. So if it's a really tough
opponent, I guess it could be somewhat dangerous.
Then we have another magic missile, the Death Bassem.
Yeah, 18 inch roller D6 and if you exceed toughness, the
opponent dies, so that's pretty nice.
You have a 2 power death spell. I don't think there's too many
of those. No.
No, yeah. So that's definitely a dangerous
thing because like it says, you, you just die.
There's no well, it's not called a wall saviour, but no save of
any kind will do. Anything else is spelled really
just die because you don't cause a wound.
So I guess that's the interpretation, right?
Yes. Yeah, yeah.
Instant death. It's nasty.
So I think for two power that's quite good.
So I think that would have been a keeper if you got that one.
Yeah. And then we have the power of
Chaos. So yeah, sounds more like AK
spell, but of course there's a mix there.
So you're all the D6 on two to six, you draw three extra medi
cards. So yeah, that's pretty nasty.
I think that's, I mean, if you can do it, you would definitely
do it right. On the 1, you are drawn into the
freedom of case and killed. Of course, that's a downside.
So maybe not on the first turn, if you don't have anything very
good to ask, maybe you wouldn't do that, but.
But but there's also the the restriction that only he can use
those cards. So it's so whilst you may think,
oh, it's alright, I'll just use a level 1 to cast if I can get
that fellow, well that's great. But then he gets that cast he
can't use because he's one school.
He's more chaos. Yeah, so so it is.
A school you got to take a risk on.
Yeah. Do I misremember this change?
Have anything sort of similar to that in the late edition?
It sounds familiar, but. Boo Zinch.
Yeah, there's there's a spell that is very similar in the
zinch deck. It's pretty much the same spell.
I think top of my head, I can't remember the insurance and outs
of it. Look at that.
We do chaos spells, I guess. But yeah, there there is a power
gaining spell for for zinch in 4th edition and then there's got
power chaos. So you get both of them.
You'll be a nasty wizard. Yeah.
And I forget the rules. Yeah, Yeah.
And as we said, maybe not a good idea to do that on your first
turn with your level 4 with it. That's a bit too much of A
gamble. Yeah, a 10 point walks on
channel help there, but obviously you don't know what
spells you're going to get. So yeah, that that that could be
rather rather harsh. I mean, I, I zinch how zinch
mark of Chaos in the chaos book. I think that's when it changed
from being a four plus dispelling to being you get a re
roll instead, which is rather rubbish.
But then you think if you if you've got your level 4 wizard
who's got power of chaos, having a re roll might be a good thing.
Might be better than any other power in that it's better than,
you know, chaos armour and frenzy just because you
potentially keep your wizard. But I think if you risk that
once, you probably aren't going to cast it again.
So yeah, solid deck. There are a few standouts, but
of course the the big thing is if you take this one, you are
absolutely guaranteed if you have a high level wizard to get
some several destructive spells. They were pretty much all about
killing your opponents. So yeah, if that's your thing,
you're definitely going to get get some fun stuff to play
around with, yes, So good, good deck, absolutely.
There are no really bad spells. Maybe the Transformation 1 you
need to be careful about, but the other one are pretty much
all solid as though we're coming up to the first break.
So we'll be back in a little while with the other two.
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www.blackarrowminis.com. I guess we just handled the the
necromantic spells. That makes sense.
So if you're ready, Dave, to take us through the magic of the
undead. I am so there were three
necromantic spells in the dark deck when they first did battle
magic. I don't know if I had a firm
plan to do a necromantic deck or not.
They did say you know, they're they're a temporary get you by
what we I don't know if it was what we figure out what to do
with it rather than actually create a deck.
But the three spells though that were necromancy spells if you
were an undead wizard. So while you know necromancer, A
leash or a vampire then you could put back dark magic spells
until you got necromantic spells in the initial deck.
So 3 spells you got were hand of dust, Raised, the dead of Van
Hels, Dance, Macabre. Obviously all of those go into
the later necromantic deck, but also dark wizard.
No matter. Sorry, no, not dark Wizards.
Undead Wizards could cast those spells as many times as they
wanted and they they could just cast them as many times as they
wanted with Obviously they have to have power cards to cast
them, but they were but in the when they when they expanded
into the into the necromantic deck, then your level of wizard
determined whether or not you can keep on casting the spell.
Whereas initially with the battle magic version, you could
just didn't matter about your level.
You could just repeatedly cast it if you had power.
Hand of Dust close combat spell not loved by a lot of users of
of undead magic because it it presents your Wizards into a
certain element of risk being in close combat.
Now undead Wizards typically do get into close combat because
they are very good fighters, but there are better spells for your
undead wizard to be casting. Basically you you can
potentially create a white out of a close combat opponent.
So you're rolling dice comparing the scores the the undead wizard
double s his add your strength and yeah, for each point you you
win by you inflict A wound. If you do enough to kill, then
you create a white. The necromancy deck version they
see only changes that. If you kill a wizard, he becomes
a Wraith. But apart from that it's exactly
the same spell. Then raise the dead in the dark
magic version, raise the dead. It was a it was one of the few
multi PowerPoint spells, so you could either cast it with one
power or two power or three power on that dictate that
determine how many skeletons or zombies that you raised.
If you use one power, you've got D62 power 2D6 and three power
3D6. And it was either skeletons or
zombies, or you could repair a undead war machine, or you could
raise undead horsemen, But that was too basically 100 horsemen
cost you 2 for each one. So.
So if you were just to roll 2D6 and get some like 8, you'd only
raise 400 horsemen. Any models that you raise you
can either add to an existing unit, or if you raise at least
five models, you can create a new unit and you can send them
into close combat as well. So it's quite a nasty spell to
surprise and ambush your opponent, do things like prevent
gun lines by raising undead in front of them, raise undead in
front of their hell blaster, raise at least 5 skeletons or
zombies and really annoy your opponent, your empire opponent.
It's a great spell, I love it. Yes, yes, and I mean a real
signature spell. Of course, for the other it's
oh. Absolutely, yeah.
Raising skeletons got to be done.
It's it's it's wonderful, but it, but not only is it fit for,
you know, like your vampire or your leash, but also or
necklace, obviously, but it also is kind of fitting in the for
dark elves as well in the, you know, if, if you think that high
often dark elves, dark elves are kind of based upon ancient Greek
mythology to an extent. Not entirely.
Obviously there's a lot of European stuff, you know, other
European countries mixed in there.
But there is, there is to an extent, there is a definite
Greek mythology slant to them. So the idea of a dark elf wizard
using Hydra's teeth to raise skeletons is very thematic as
well. So, so there's a lot of people
like, Oh yeah, you took the undead spells as a, as a dark
elf wizard. But I think there is definitely
a, a narrative there that fits that isn't just, you know, like
your gothic Cora. It's quite.
And I think there's at least in one of the background stories
about I guess the that the dog has actually taught him magic.
Is that right? So do they retcon that one
later? But as.
Later wasn't certainly wasn't in fourth.
No, he in fourth. He taught himself it.
Oh mate, who does it now? You've said that that's starting
to. I'm going to have to reread
Negotiate. Yeah, I think maybe not.
A line or something like that maybe that he spoke with.
Elvis. I think they captured the like
steer wreck to the dark elves and torture them to teach
something. Or maybe that was maybe that
came into the 5th edition Vampires book.
Maybe. I don't know.
I have to investigate that one. Yeah, you intrigued me.
My curiosity is piqued. Do you remember, Ted, that?
One, I think it's mentioned the Dark of Book in the timeline.
Oh, In the Dark of OK, yeah, All right.
I haven't read the book that closely to be fair, no.
No. But as we said there, obviously
there's a sort of mix between the dark and necromantic, that
they sort of coexist. Interesting.
OK, And then the lost necromantic spell of the dark
magic deck that got replaced obviously was Van Hal's Dance
McCall. It's the most important spell
probably for an undead army because undead can't March.
So with this spell it allows you to March.
Only real difference between this and the later version in
the necromantic deck, because it appears there again, is in this
one the spell. That allows you to either
charge, March, fight, close combat, or shoot missile
weapons. It doesn't say make a normal
movement, but obviously in the in the description within the
battle magic book it does say if a unit can't March it can make a
normal move. And obviously within 70 to
troops you can't. But it's weird it doesn't have
it as move, charge, March, fight close combat or or shoot missile
weapons. Just a slight variation.
You can, it's cast. Obviously you can cast this
multiple times, but only Once Upon each unit.
Now, this has caused some arguments between some players
in the past. I've seen and comment and there
have been discussions on online forums, including our Facebook
group, because the the the the definition is very exactly says
you cannot successfully cast it upon the same.
Whereas some people have argued, no, you tried to cast it.
I've dispelled it. You can't cast it.
Yes, you can. You can keep casting it until
it's successfully cast in the same unit.
And so it's it's an important difference because some people
think they can nerf you by as an undead with as a necromancer by
dispelling it on on like your most important.
No, no, I can keep casting it on that unit until it works.
Yeah, I think that makes sense because I mean, if it was
dispelled, you'd never actually cast it.
So it's. Exactly.
But it's it it is a decision I've seen a few times on on
various forums. So it's just a little, little my
2 Pennethworth. And also, that's how it actually
is written in the Battle Magic book, that you can keep it
successful and makes the point of saying if it's dispelled, you
can cast it again on the same unit.
So it's, you know, it's not just my interpretation as well.
Yeah. Yeah.
So for the listeners, you actually learn things by
listening to this one. So you never had to wonder about
that one. It's official.
Yeah, absolutely. And to be fair, I hadn't read
that line for quite a while. So before I when I was making my
case on those kind of discussions and actually
reference that. So in future, if that comes up,
then I will, although obviously if everyone listens to our
podcast, you know, everyone in the world that like listen to
our podcast, we'll know now and and that discussion will never.
Come up again, this is the official rules channel, so of
course everyone. Exactly.
We are. We are.
We are wrong. We are, yeah.
But yeah, so that was our snifter and taste of what was
going to become the dot, the dark magic.
Keep saying that, the necromantic deck.
So when it came to the necromantic deck, you've got 10
spells. Slight little cheat in that
three of the spells are the same spell, but there's strength on
it. So rather than having raised the
Dead where you can have one spell where you can choose, you
know, to cost you 1-2 or three power, instead they're three
separate spells. So you've got summoned skeletons
for one spell that does 1D6 of troops, zombies or skeletons
razor dead that does 2 and someone undead horde which does
3 and they also have greater ranges as well.
So with the one power 1 or some skeletons you can only erase
skeletons within 18 inches 2 power 1.
You can erase skeletons with zombies within 24 and then 36
for three power 1. So there are more variances than
just you know, the number that you raises.
Also, the range that your spell can can be effective and
obviously the range it can be effective is, is really
important if you're trying to do that tactic.
Like I said earlier, raising troops ahead of your ahead of
your ward to silence, or at least to what's the term I'm I'm
thinking of to tie up. There's a better word for that
and I can't think of it. Your opponents artillery just
stick, you know, razor the skeletons or zombies in front of
them. Someone said 5 models,
obviously, and it ties them up. But you're going to be more
effective at doing that if you're using either the the two
power or the three power one because you've got the greater
range. 18 inches might not be quite enough to to raise them in
front of the artillery or misoptroops obviously, or in my
case, I often do it in front of Knights because it prevents
Knights charging into your best unit then very useful.
So there's three of the spells. I said Hand of Dust and Van Hels
Dance Macabre also make it in there.
So that's five of the 10 we've already covered.
And then the remained, and I said the only change between
those is that with Van Hels Dance Macabre, but it actually
states you can use it for movement, just me rather than
charge March and Hand of Dust. If you kill a wizard instead of
a regular or a hero, then you create a white instead of sorry,
a Wraith instead of a white. But there are the only
differences. They're pretty much the same
spells. You've then got five other new
spells. Across all of them, you have got
4/2 power, 3 three power and three one power spells.
So let's do the one power first. The summoned skeletons van
housed after coverable. We've covered those.
They're they're two of the three and then the remaining one Dark
mist A1 power transportation spell, which is a bit different
to the transportation spells in other decks.
With this one you basically become in effect Ethereum, so
you can't be hurt by magic weapons or magic spells.
You can't fight in close combat, which is slightly different to
normal ethereal troops. Obviously they can, but the
wizard can't with darkness cast upon him.
But he can move 24 inches and pass through obstacles and
buildings and whatnot. So it's a really handy spell if
you are looking to try and keep your wizard alive or positioning
for decent other spells. Just be just be careful of, you
know, characters with magic weapons or spells, because they
will still be able to hurt him. But very handy though, And is
what's his name, Hirik Kemla. He's he's he's got a cloak of
missing shadows, which basically casts the darkness.
So same spell twice. You could have an effect there.
They're the one power. Then we've got the two power.
We've got Drain life, Gays of Nigesh, hand of Dust and Raise
the Dead. Obviously we've already
mentioned those, so drain life is a nasty spell.
So the wizard rolls 2D6 and everything within that range
takes a strength three hit and any wounds cause can be taken by
the caster to restore previously lost wounds.
So he can only go up to his his original number.
But still a handy spell for especially if you cast it kind
of in the middle of your opponent's battle line, it's
going to be really nasty. Unless of course you roll 22 on
the 2D6 and it's a bit rubbish. But if you roll higher, you're
laughing. Gazing a gash is one of my
favorite attacking spells. It's kind of like green eye and
burning head and whatever the one was we mentioned before in
this one 11 Dingbolt is it? Yeah, Dingbolt where it's it's
kind of a straight line from the wizard, but in this case it's
the first model and it's party takes 2D6 strength four hits
with no armour safe. So it's it's just like it's
pretty powerful. It's it's useful.
It's, it's a nice magic missile and it's one that I use mostly
to draw out dispels, so that if I'm casting that, then it's my
opinion's rather panicking about it because it can do quite a lot
of damage. They tend to dispel it and then
that allows you to get through your Van Hill's dance and carb
and your and your raising spells, which you draw out a
dispel or two. So it's a useful one for that.
And if they don't dispel it, well, it's really quite nasty.
2D6 strength, four hits for no armour safe.
There are the other two level 2 spells and then obviously you're
on to Level 3. So 1 is someone and Ed who
already covered that one. We also have Wind of Death.
I'm saving the best to last, don't worry.
So a wind of death that is kind of similar to On His Balls and
Purple Sun. This one's a bit different in
that you put it against a table edge rather than appearing kind
of in front of the wizard. And then it moves 2D10 inches on
the first turn and then 2D10 every turn after that.
And all living models is really living models, which most of
these spells are actually where not gaze me gash, but what was
the drain life that has to be against living creatures.
But in this case with death, again it's against living
creatures, but all models suffered that get touched
suffered D6 wounds on 4 plus and wind blasts again can affect
this one. So wind blasts can affect black
undisposed black horror, wind of death and purple.
Something can change the direction of it.
So you could be really unfortunate cast wind of death
and then he has redirected. But if you're an undead wizard,
that's not too bad because the only things that are going to
get hurt by it are ghouls and necromancers.
So the only two living things in a in an undead army, but but a
nasty spell. I mean to, you know, suffering
D6 wounds OK on A4 plus, admittedly, but still it's
pretty it's pretty pretty potent.
It's going to take out quite a few characters on.
I guess potentially if you're up against the speedy opponents
later in game, it might not be too good if they moved away,
but. Well, you can.
It's any table edge. You can start it from their
table edge. Oh yeah, yeah, OK, yeah.
But if that sort of battle ends up in the middle, I guess maybe
that's. True, yeah.
And probably pretty rare. What's the end of the battle?
That's when missile troops and war machines are less use as
well, I guess. Yeah.
So yeah. But then you can also start on
the side of of the battlefield as well if there's troops at the
sides. Yeah, yeah, you're probably
going to have someone to cost the test.
It could be good for disrupting a gun line or something.
Yeah, absolutely. From the side and along the
line. Dwarfs with hating it.
Yeah, they would have to move. And Chaos Dwarfs would hate it
as well. We both would struggle with that
I think. And obviously Matthias gun line
as well, he's Empire gun line would not particularly like that
they don't like him blowing into them.
But then then we come to what is considered one of the most
overpowered spells during the game.
It's kind of like if you take Fiery Convocation and dial it up
to 11, it's it's nice as heck. Curse of years three power spell
3. Power spells are hard to cast
than people give credit to because typically you know if
you're on your own. 2D6 for Wings of Magic.
The most you're going to get is 6 cards.
Obviously you can use other items, you know, magic items to
increase that and gain extra cards.
You could use Power of Chaos if you wanted to and risk dying to
even more cards. But typically you only get 6
cards. So if it takes three power to
cast Van Heusdance per car, if if if you get the maximum 6
cards, it's half your spell. You know, half your wings of
magic gone in one spell. So it's difficult to cast, you
know, and obviously it can be dispelled as well.
Total power, that's where we won't find that.
But what does it do? So you cast it on a unit and on
A5 plus on the first turn a model dies and that's you're
rolling for every model in the unit, characters included.
It's no wounding, there's no armour size.
There's you know, it's it's not that it suffers 1 wound.
No models die. Yeah, and also, it's not like
plague. You do it in sequence and if you
don't kill it stops or anything. It's just everyone.
No, it's just everyone and then on the next turn it's 4.
Plus I don't know if anyone's ever gotten to the point where
it's automatic as if instead he goes on it doesn't stay at any
point that it's automatic. If you get to have many turns
that spells been cast on you, I'm guessing the is probably
either dead by that point or it's been dispelled.
But in theory you can get to the point where if it's if it's five
plus first turn and then the next magic phase is 4 plus the
next is 3 plus then it's 2 plus. Do we get an automatic death or
is it always a failure? And how does it work in fourth?
Is it on both players turn or is it yeah.
It's every magic face. Yeah, yeah.
It is the It's probably the nastiest spell in the entire
game. Yeah, it's because it's just.
Yeah, I think, I guess the only limitation that's a bit hot, but
I mean, it doesn't cause instant destruction.
So if you want to really break or destroy a unit in that turn,
maybe it's not the ultimate spell, but of course it it's
extremely dangerous. You will have to dispel it or
you're cooked basically. Yeah, you know, and OK, cast on
unit of peasants or or scraven slaves, who gives the monkeys?
Yeah. What's on unit of iron Breakers
or a unit of of? Nikes or whatever, Yeah.
You know, it's it's just it's horrendous.
It's it's nasty and it's another great if you couldn't, if you've
got the power cards to throw away, as it were, it's a great
spell for drawing out a dispel because your opponent does not
want that being cast. If he lets that be cast, then
you know something wrong or you need to worry about what the
what's in these units that don't appear to be as good as they
are. Because if he's if he's letting
a good unit die almost automatically, OK, might take a
couple of turns, but you know, to die automatically, then maybe
there's maybe that it's not quite as powerful as it looks.
But yeah, I just a thoroughly horrible spell.
It's not what I normally cast. I'll be honest with you, simply
because of, you know, the cost of casting it is prohibitive,
but it is it's it's it's terrifying.
It's possibly worse spelling the game.
Yeah. And I think most people would
agree that the upgraded necromatic deck is is one of the
worst, and I would say it's probably better than Dark Works
differently of course, but there's some truly horrible.
Ones, I mean, I wouldn't say worse, I'd say one of the best,
but that's because I'm a different perspective.
Yeah, yeah. I mean from the undead players
perspective, yes, true. That said, I do want to, I do
want to play some games where I take the original dark magic
deck and because I'm going to be building a whitelist dark elf
army in the coming months, might do that a couple of times.
Play a couple of battles where I'm using the original Dark
magic deck just for the fun of the you know of the variation of
spells in the dark magic deck. Right.
So yeah, you're not, can't go far wrong with that one.
But then we have one that wasn't in the original box but came
later in its entirety. And that's the case rules.
And Ted, you are a Chaos Dwarf. Expert.
Yeah, maybe that's your choice of words, but I'll do my best.
Yeah. So this deck was included in the
White Dwarf article and then later collected in the book
Chaos Dwarf, White Dwarf Presents and the The List.
The spell list is heavily themed around fire, lava, ash and
shadow, so it's quite a thematic deck, really suitable for the
Chaos Dwarfs. So it has two power 1 spells and
a whopping 7 power 2 spells and only one power 3.
So it's quite different to dark, manic and necromatic.
So it's kind of a mid level deck and it's it doesn't have any
special rules like exchanging cards and so on.
It's just a standard deck. So I decided to split it into
four categories depending on what the spells do.
So the first category are called enhancing spells.
These are the ones you cast on yourself.
So first up, we have magma pool. It's a power 1, and it's your
standard transportation spell. So the sorcerer turns into lava
and appears somewhere else on the battlefield, and he can
charge into close combat. So I think this is very useful
if your sorcerer is riding around on a monster, because
then you can, yeah, charged into combat anywhere on the
battlefield. And I suppose for KS wolves,
they usually are riding around the monsters.
Yeah, you should be really on a Lamassu or Great Taurus.
And also for setting up spells, so positioning and also forcing
terror tests into a monster. You can appear behind someone
and yeah, forcing A terror check.
So it's overall good spell, I think.
And then we have flaming height. This is a protection spell.
It's a power 1 and it has a range of 6 inches.
So the sorcerer can cast this upon himself or another model
within 6 and he gains a save. So on 4-5 or six, any wound is
negated, it says. And in close combat, the
attacker was suffer a string three hit.
Yeah. So it's a remains in play spell.
Yeah. It's also good for sorcerers
riding around a monster, becoming a target for war
machines and missiles stuff. And then we have fist of fire.
This is a close combat spell. It's a power 2 and you cast it
upon the sorcerer himself and you get anyone hit in close
combat or atom automatically wounded as of as D3 wounds.
Normal Armistice. Yeah.
I mean, it's a situational spell I guess.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, all those are a bit.
Yeah, you probably don't. Base your tactic on on that
particular spell. That could come in handy I
guess. And the fact that it doesn't
remove armour is yeah, it's a problem, I think, yeah.
And then we have the next category, which I call
psychology spells. And 1st we have the Shadows of
Hashut. And this is a power to and range
18 spell. And the sorcerer summons a a
shadowy bull. The I shoot I see in his bull
form charging forward. So you draw a straight line 18
inches from the sorcerer. Every model crossed by the line
surfaces strength for heat causing 1 wound.
And if a unit suffers A casualty, they must take a panic
test immediately. So yeah, I mean, it could be
good against low leadership armies with lots of units.
If you're flying around on a monster, you can position
yourself. If you're lucky, you might hit
two or three units even if they're close together.
So against goblins or humans with leadership 7 might be, you
might get one unit to flee at least.
So yeah, it's it's all right, I think.
Yeah. Andy yeah.
And then we have Doom Roar. This is a power 2 and range 36.
So the sorcerer gives up a roar from Hashut and his head turns
into a bullhead. And if any units engaged in hand
and combat must take a panic test immediately.
So the enemy, of course, if they fail, they will flee and and all
fleeing friendly units immediately rally.
So it's a it's a dual purpose. So it's.
It's the roar of a God. Basically.
So I think this will be good against low leadership enemies
and if you have a lot of greenskins in your army and they
probably flee a lot. So could be good for rallying
your home goblins. Yeah.
So it's that's a good range of 36.
So it's everything within 36 of the sorcerer.
So pretty good. And then we have the next
category which I call the debilitating spells or debuff
spells. And then first we have the
Sorceress curse. This is a power 2 and range 24
spell. The sorcerer gestures towards an
enemy model and he begins to turn into stone.
So the the enemy model must roll under his strength on 2D6 at the
start of every turn. If he succeeds he can act
normally, but if not he may do nothing at all.
So it's remains in play. So yeah.
So it can be good for shutting down a character.
Most we certs are only like string 4, so then they would
need to roll 3 or less on 2D6 to be allowed to do anything at
all. So you can, you can potentially
shut down level 4 wizard, elf wizard or something.
So yeah, it's useful. And then we have ash cloud and
this is a power 2 and range AT and the sorcerer summons a cloud
of ash that hits a unit within AT and this causes the unit to
yeah, it's a movement, weapon skill, ballistic skill,
initiative and attacks will be hard.
So until the beginning of the next magic phase.
Yeah. So it's kind of like the other,
some of the others we are talking malediction of I guess.
Yeah, it's shutting down a unit most effective against elite
units, I think, and cavalry, because their movement is soft.
And yeah, maybe not against goblins, but against Chaos
Warriors and things like that, it's, yeah, it's quite useful.
Yeah, I think there are a few similars.
I think there's one Amber that is a bit like that, not
identical, but yeah, there are a couple.
So yeah, good. They don't totally neutralize
the unit, but pretty much, I mean, they're going to be not
great if you get them off. No, exactly.
However, you might be a little bit unhappy if you only got
level one with the new fight against undead and you got that
spell. Yeah, exactly.
So only living targets. Yeah, but in fourth you are
allowed to switch, so. No, if you switch, you get that
one split, you got level one with it.
You you go, oh, I don't like that one, put that on.
Now I've got ash cloud. Yeah, I remember.
I remember Thomas Pirinum writing in one article.
With this spell, you might actually get the chance to
charge with your Chaos Dwarfs once in a while.
Your Bull Bull Santos can charge, but not your.
Your normal dwarfs are not that likely.
I suppose so. We had looked through most of
the Chaos Dwarf deck but there were a few left so hit it Ted.
Yes. So there were three left and
this category is 1. I call the damaging spells or
yeah, attack spells. So lots of fire and lava stuff
coming your way. So first up we have Flames of
Ass Gore, the only one who is named after someone.
I don't know who as Gore is, but maybe.
Like the apportioned name depending on how you Yeah.
Yeah, as gore, I don't know, but yeah.
So this uses the teardrop shaped template, so the sorcerer
breathes fire more or less. So you yeah, you use the that
template. So anyone under the template are
hit on 4-5 or six and if they're hit, they suffer strength for
hit and no armor saves allowed even for magical arm it says.
I don't know if that means like ward saves or.
What they? Including magical arm.
I don't know if does that mean that it's something like black
amulet or something would steal. What would work against that
one? Or doesn't anything work?
My hunch would be black amulet woods.
Because that's not actually almost normal section things.
Whereas most, most of the most the wording for what we became
what became known as ward saves was actually re rolls of armour
save unmodifiable. So in that sense, I guess it
would negate those because that is a re roll of an armour save.
So probably the most interesting one in that is what about the
golden hound Vatras are I think it's worded as an armour save,
but it's but it's like an invulnerable armour save.
So I'm not sure about that. That's that's, you know,
immovable object versus force. That one was probably a 5050
role as to whether it would work and in those cases but majority
I think it probably just wipe them out to be honest with you.
Yeah, that's there's a clear wording on that one to get get
the game going. You should probably go for it.
So so this one is the one that changed the most to 5th edition.
I just saw that it it removes the teardrop and it becomes a
the round template instead. You place it within 12 inches.
Yeah, so it changed from a fire breathing attack to a fireball
falling from the sky. Is it the big big template or?
It's the the three inch. One, I think, I guess that's
probably better in those cases I would.
Yeah, it doesn't require any line of sight to just place it
within 12, anywhere within 12 of the sorcerer.
So yeah, the problem with this one is that you may hit your own
things. You have to be careful with the
placement of the template, but if you're a sorcerer's flying
around on a monster he should be able to position himself pretty
well I think. So this one would be most useful
against heavily armoured, low toughness things like human or
elf nights, things like that. Should be pretty effective.
And then we have probably my favorite spell that is Lava
Storm. It's a power to range 18.
So the sorcerer summons a storm of lava that flies in a straight
line up to 18 inches, hitting the first unit in its path.
And this causes 2D six hits and each hit causes the wounds on
four or five or six. And again, no saving throws, not
even for magical SO. I think brightest 1 like that.
Maybe it's not identical, but I think it sounds pretty familiar
to one of those. Burning or some?
Yeah. I think it's roughly similar,
yeah, but it's only definitely and against the like high
toughness, high lead armour, Yeah.
So Chaos Knights or something is good.
Good targets of course. Yeah, and also single monsters,
so. Yeah, so could take some damage,
especially if they're flammable. Then they will and it will be
double wounds on. The barbecue spam.
In the in the battle report Skull River battle for Skull
River they used to spend on a tree man.
He suffered 8 wounds and burned to a crisp.
Yeah, we're planning on talking about that one though pretty
soon. So yeah, that's a good use.
Tree Man and Monmouth and a few other things.
There's not too much that actually is very clammable, I
think, but. But it's one of those spells you
can really use in any situation. It's yeah, it's good against
most things. So what do you?
Yeah, I was just thinking it's it's probably sounds better than
it actually is because 2D6 it's what's the average 7 and then
you need 4 up. So it's 3 or 4 wounds maybe?
Yeah, yeah. So if it's Chaos Nights,
definitely worth it. It's just infantry, you know.
Yeah, it's OK, but it's not going to change the best thing
in any way. So what about it is on a spell
that if you try to draw out a dispel, big it up?
Yeah, because it sounds a lot worse than it actually does.
Probably. So yeah, use that one to kind of
scare your prone to drawing out a dispel or a.
Yeah. And I mean, if you would happen
to roll really well, it can be pretty scary.
But not like, yeah. Absolutely. 12 hits.
Yeah, yeah, and 12 wounds, but that's of course extremely
unlikely. But yeah, it could happen.
So what do you think about the deck in general?
I think to me it's sort of, it sounds pretty equal to some of
the college decks. It's not anything like really
big spells, they're going to be game changing, but solid stuff.
We have one left. Oh, sorry, yeah.
That we should mention as well. It's the final one.
It's called eruption. So it's a volcano coming forth
and spewing out lava and hot ash.
So this is the only power 31. It's a range of 24 inches.
So you just place the three inch diameter template over your
target and any models beneath the template must roll equal to
or under their their initiative to jump aside.
And anything that fails is instantly vaporized.
So it's one of those that kills stuff without inflicting wounds.
And war machines are automatically destroyed as well
as Chariots, but the crew can jump aside so.
So how does that one compare to like?
Is it a pit of tallness? The grey spell?
I think that's some go on strength and some go on
initiative. I don't remember which one does
watch. I think there is something
similar to that one. Yeah, this corners this.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty lethal in the as, as you know,
Ted said. There's no wounds involved.
It's just of models and it's instant getting rid of of war
machines. So that's terrible building to
get a four plus. They're only short on A4 plus,
so it's a little bit better, but it's still yeah, it's it's
pretty devastating, but only over, you know, the three inch
diameter area. So that's at least not quite in
the it's you know, you probably only get one or two war machines
at most with with that, you know, if if you position it
right, you know, the template, I'm going to get 2, sorry, 3.
So it's not terrible, but it is, you know, that is still quite
pretty, pretty major. So yeah, that's probably the
scariest one if the circumstances are right.
Yeah, I know. I mean that's it should be power
3, so I guess it should be. I guess against steam tanks and
war wagons, yeah. Well, don't scare him, but yeah,
that's, that's absolutely right. Yes.
So really expensive war machines.
Yeah. That'd be nasty, yeah.
Absolutely. Ouch.
Yeah. So that's yeah.
Against elite units with low initiative, yes it could be good
at 1 like dwarfs elite dwarf regiments.
Yeah. They will, yeah.
They will need to roll under their initiatives.
Yeah, it's about the. Addition equal.
To under So one or two, Yeah, so one or two.
Are you think vote more on alcohol on the black needs to be
careful that one. Yeah, the big chariot you.
Don't have the white, but they lose the war, the war altar and
the chariot. Yeah, yeah, that's good targets
as well. And wallet now without his
chariot, is not that. No so definitely as its useless
I would say. Yeah, I think it's a really good
deck. I think it's got a lot of
attacking spells in there. But bear in mind, I'm an
exponent of the bright deck, so I'm only really getting to grips
with with more Trixie magic probably now kind of growing up,
I I was probably, you know, used the bright deck more than
anything else. And I still think Bright's
great, a great deck to take for a low level wizard.
And so, you know, if, if you're playing with chaos source,
you've got the same thing going on.
So I think every wizard is going to, unless they're really
unlucky, they're going to get a spell they can use because
they're low cost. You know, there's only one power
for me and they all do something.
OK, yes, probably a level 1 chaos source for on foot.
Probably doesn't want magma Paul.
That's a waste of time. But if he gets anything else,
pretty much he's I can maybe not Fist of Fire either, but
generally speaking, the odds are you're going to get some decent
spells and be able to use them and they're low cost.
So I think it's a great deck, yeah.
Solid. Yeah, it's, it's pretty all
round. I think it's it has a bit of
everything, yeah. True, true.
All right. So when you pick your case or
spells, which ones are you aiming for?
Or you said the well Lava, the last one, yeah.
Eruption lava storm is good, Ash cloud is pretty nice I think
maybe Shadows of Ashut yeah depending on who you're facing.
Yeah. And probably if you're using a
lot of hot goblins, probably doing the rule, that would be a
good, good one to have. But you know, any of those I
think are solid spells. And yes, yeah.
And Magna pool I would like to have if I have a mounted
sorcerer so I can position him where I want him and so he can
cast his spells. Yeah, yeah, transportation stuff
is almost always good unless you have a level 1.
On his own, not too much. Yes.
All right, so, yeah, good stuff. Do you have any?
There wasn't two. Yeah, there were in the the
Undead deck. You talked about the horrible
curse of ages. Of course, Dave, would that be
your favorite? Yeah.
Avery, As I said, I love gays and gash just because it's I
like the image of it and I'd find it as he, as I was
mentioning before, you know, one of these spells for drawing out
dispel cards. It's it's because your parent
really has to think about, OK, if I don't dispel this, what's
going to happen? If I do dispel it, what's going
to happen? It's one of those ones that
causes you to think it's not necessarily to get it off, but
you know, at the end of the day, recently speaking for the
undead, you need one with summons, skeleton spells, one of
those 3, ideally, if you can only get one, probably the
middle one, about two. And Van nows dance with
cardboard. If you've got those two, you
should be all right. Anything else is kind of window
dressing, really. Yeah, exactly.
And you know, if you've got cursor of years and he managed
to get it off, great, brilliant. But.
It's not a spell to, you know, sometimes you kind of you can
take with if you take enough Wizards, you can guarantee you
get certain spells. Yeah.
And you can build your strategy around them.
You know, hello Grey Wizards. And you're the British shadows,
right? But, you know, cursor is he's
not one to build your strategy around.
If you're an undead sorcerer, you're going to be basing it on
Funhouse Dance per Carb and one of the, you know, and summoning
skeletons and zombies, you know, that's the reality really matter
in that deck. Yeah.
So if you get it off, it's a huge bonus and it's probably
going to be serving you extremely well.
But as you said, it's not what you sort of build your deck
around. Dark magic to you then,
Matthais? What do you think you would
really go for? Yeah, I think like just, you
know, utility, good solids belt that you're going to get off
pretty often. I guess suppose Doom Bolt this
solid 1. And I mean, if your opponent has
some war machines stuff, it's even better.
Yeah, like the Maledictation because it has a cool name so
and also there's Nagesh in it, so that's a bonus.
Looks like you found one. It's sort of yeah.
It does a bit of everything. It's it doesn't cause huge
damage and but it's hinders your enemy and makes it pretty
worthlessly the unit. So yeah, I will take those two.
I think they're. Nice.
Well, I, I think the with the dark magic, you've got 2 trap
spells. And by that I don't mean the
spells trap your opponent, I mean they're traps.
As in if you've only got level 1 wizard, there's two spells you
don't want to be getting there and your power of chaos because
only they can use the cards that you get.
So it's completely busting it. So yeah, OK, if you've got a
higher level they're worthwhile, but but for a level 1 you don't
want those two spells. No, no, yeah, that's the thing.
If you have two of those, if you're lucky, you know, if you
try to switch 1, you can still end up with that one.
So yeah, the OR or. Getting a level 2 that gets both
of those. Yeah, then you definitely want
them, wouldn't you? Oh gosh, yeah.
Yeah, but I'm looking forward to try it out pretty soon.
I don't remember how does it work with dark elves?
Can they only use dark or can they use other spells?
Yeah, they can only use dark Dark Elves.
That's where you come in. We'd like a Book of Asia or
something like that. But yeah, they're, they're one
of those those armies like Hawks that really struggle.
Big coastals as well actually will really struggle because
they only have the 10 spells. Yes.
Whereas every other race has got access to others by some of the
means, but as to all sorts, and Goblins and Dark Elves have only
got those, the 10 in each of those two, those three sorry
decks, they struggle. But still they even though they
only have one deck, there's still good decks, all of them in
their own way. Yeah, well, I think you just
hints the kind of the the logic that it was built around was
3000 point armies. So in those, typically you'll
have two Wizards, maybe 3 push. So in that sense, you know, only
having tend to spell cards doesn't really affect you.
And it even does stay in the rules.
There are only 10 and 10 is the limit for those decks.
I mean, I've done it before, played a really big game.
Autumn got was one, was one of the armies.
And we just said just have as many decks as you need, you
know? Yeah, I don't remember how they
did it in those huge by Torf battles with Hawks and goblins,
but I imagine they may be bypassed that one.
Yeah, of course. Or found ways, you know, things
like taking the Crown sorcery or Book of Asher added on, or, you
know, having Chaos Torf allies. So you get Chaos Torf spells as
well as the Autumn Goblins spells that sort.
Of if you have a 10,000 points on me, that's going to limit
your. I've I've kind of got this idea
for a game of Boyle one year where I want to have take my
entire rock and goblin army, which is huge, but have it on
cards. And kind of it's a, for example,
when, when when a unit gets killed, you draw another card,
another unit comes on. So it's maybe like a last
against someone. And so the auto gobs keep on
coming, but the idea is that they're going to die easily and
they get replaced easily. And the way I do it with Wizards
is as soon as the level like 4 goes out, OK, you take, you
select one from the level 4 batch of statement cards or
level 2 goes out from a batch of two level, or go for two level
ones or something like that. And, and have them as named
characters that are coming on. And then what you do is you
cycle through the spell cards that way so that when someone
goes out, they come back in and they get two of those sort of
what's left. If you say, I mean so.
Yeah, yeah. Service then, yeah.
Need to work out the mechanics of it, but that would get around
the 10 spell cards for only 10, you know, only having access to
the 10 spell cards, yeah. Yeah, sounds like fun.
I seem to remember they did something like that in 40K
second edition. Tyranids came on, just kept
coming on the. Yes, I mean that was slightly
different because materials you could multiply up the the spell
the it's not spelled the psychic powers because you basically
ought your psychic powers rather than being dealt with them.
So you could have multiple things with the same psychic
powers. So it's slightly different.
The rest of them you couldn't. It was limited to just the 8 or
4 depending on what the size of the deck was.
So it is, it is an intentional mechanic which is designed to
keep the game small. And you know in 40K they even
came out and said you know 40K actually for them works better
at 2nd district. 40K well it's better in game for 1000 points.
Yeah, I think it bogged down pretty quickly after that.
But I mean, if you're going to do a like a mega sized battle,
you will have to make up some house rules I think to make it
run smoothly. So why not do it in that case?
Fantastic. OK.
So yeah, that was that. And I think we have, is it 3
decks left in total after this? It's I.
We've got IELTS, you're Skiven, Orkin, Goblin.
That's probably the only one episode.
And then we've got. The Fours and the 10s, So the
four of the original Battle Magic and the 10s of the Chaos
supplement. Yeah, so we're probably going to
divide it up that like you said, we do chaos, oh boxing, goblins,
scaven and hires in one and then we do chaos in Yeah, should be
good. And yeah.
And once you listen to all those who are going to be experts in
magic, of course dominate every item we do 1 episode.
Right. Yeah, we can.
Look at every single item we
describe every single item in the game.
That's going to be fun fun for everyone.
I'll take this to about 20-30. Yeah, and then we can start over
because people will probably ought to listen but also forget.
So All right, gents, great to have a shot and hopefully if you
listen, you, it's some inspiration to get those spells
out. Yeah.
Total power and all that. Yep, Yep.
Thank you. So have a great Sunday and catch
you later. Good morning.
Cheers guys. See you.
Bye bye. Thank you for listening to the
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