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All right, we'll look at a bit 
of a special episode today, 

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because I've got 2x heavy metal 
painters from the 1990s, but 

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they've Perry, and and Stewart, 
Thomas guys. 

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Thanks very much for coming on. 
No, Chester must be it. 

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Yeah, thank you. 
It's the pleasure's all mine 

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guys. 
So I thought I'd get you on to 

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talk about your hobby history, 
like how you actually got into 

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the hobby, everyone has a story 
and that Probably a very similar

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in some ways but some are quite 
different. 

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So, Stewart, how would you like 
to get underway? 

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Might, how'd you get into the 
wonderful world of miniature 

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painting? 
Whoa, started with probably like

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lots of others, making airfix 
kits. 

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And what have you as it as a 
kid? 

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I was in a model shop. 
One day and saw all these 

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fantasy kits on the on the 
shelves. 

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And Piqued. 
My curiosity and box plastic 

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skeletons. 
And that was the that was the 

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original skeleton, horde box 
set, one of the first plastic 

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box sets and yeah, that was it. 
Yeah. 

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That was are fixed to Citadel in
one swell foop. 

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Yeah. 
What. 

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The first copy of white dwarf 
and that was it that was I was 

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hooked from there. 
No spent. 

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That's great. 
How about you Dave? 

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Yeah. 
I mean it's kind of Summer, I 

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guess. 
But like essentially you know, I

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was into the Lord of the Rings. 
I was into, you know, the 

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Dungeons and Dragons cartoon on 
the TV. 

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Final fantasy books were massive
in the UK and it's especially 

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they had Steve Jackson's 
sorcery, which had all the John 

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Blanche covers them. 
And then one day, it was like a 

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school. 
We had these like play days 

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every so often weak people 
bringing games in this because I

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sat next to be brought in his 
big brothers, toy soldiers. 

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And I was just like my God, this
is awesome. 

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These are like little And so 
that's tough in those books or 

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similar flight Lord of the Rings
same thing once, you know then 

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sort of you know, white dwarf in
the newsagent and that was it. 

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I was just like, oh my God, this
is like life-changing people 

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with some guys and Stewart. 
What was the first miniature 

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that really captures your eye? 
In which many did you initially 

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by and paint? 
Well, the first ones who has 

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plastic skeletons. 
Definitely. 

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And then, then I work my way 
through a couple of boxes of BT 

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Space Marines, mostly painted 
with enables and very basic 

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level painting. 
I think the first first thing 

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that I consciously bought as a 
Thing that I wanted to get 

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specifically, I think, oh God my
been a Dreadnought actually. 

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One of the original sort of 
metal de Radio, dreadnoughts. 

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I think that was probably the 
first first blister pack that I 

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got. 
But yeah, it was just yeah I at 

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that time I just tended to Why 
would I ever looked interesting?

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You know, did you have Games 
Workshop stores back there? 

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Now, I used to go to my local 
model shop, the nearest Games 

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Workshop store back then, to me 
would have been probably London,

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which was couple of hours train 
ride away. 

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And the one opened up in 
Brighton which was nearer to me 

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two or three years after I got 
into it. 

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I was scared that would because 
I remember going to the opening 

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day that when they used to do, 
the the big extravagant opening 

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days with lots of special offers
and what have you? 

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Yeah, but the yeah, the let's 
go. 

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So I think this is like a run up
to doing this chat. 

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I was thinking about the good 
old days and how it all started.

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I thought, like one of the big 
things that's worth talking 

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about is compared to these days 
where, you know, workshops 

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massive As the internet there's 
apps and is information that the

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touch of Happiness, literally in
your pocket back then when we 

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were getting into it, there was 
nothing there weren't that many 

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stores. 
There was obviously no internet.

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You know it was really neat and 
it was that was part of the joy 

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that was really looks like he 
was like you were discovering 

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this kind of almost kind of like
secret kind of like Hobby and 

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society and he cleaning sort of 
bits of information and 

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knowledge step-by-step and like 
meeting people who also into it.

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And Somehow that was part of the
process of like patching it all 

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together. 
Whereas now it's, you know, it 

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feels like it's just laid out on
a plate, isn't it? 

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You know, this like stores are 
everywhere, magazines, 

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everywhere you go online. 
You know, it's very mainstream, 

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but I just was very different 
back then. 

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And, yeah, well, that was 
literally all we had was white 

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dwarf. 
I didn't know anybody at school.

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Who was into this? 
I was, it wasn't until I got to 

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college that I met people who, 
who were like-minded, who were 

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into this, even the fantasy 
stuff. 

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Like Dave said, you know, prior 
to this, I've been into Star 

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Wars Transformers Lord of the 
Rings. 

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All of that sort of thing, the 
fighting fantasy stuff. 

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But yeah, it wasn't until I got 
to college that. 

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I met people who were into it 
with me. 

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If I can get into it with, you 
know, it was very much as I do 

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also, I lived in quite an 
isolated area, so there wasn't 

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in a big town. 
So. 

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Yeah, I was it was pretty much a
solo hobby for the first three 

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or four years that I was into 
it. 

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So it's too early in terms of 
your actual like your interest 

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in the hobby that early stage, 
literally just painting 

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miniatures. 
We're ever interested in gaming 

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or is it just possible? 
He first knows, definitely just 

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the painting is collecting and 
painting. 

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Same here, the move the move 
from airfix kit. 

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The gaming side of it was again,
didn't come along until I found 

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other people who are like minded
up until that point. 

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Yeah, it was purely about 
painting. 

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That's I think, why I Quite good
at it was because that was the 

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only thing that I did was you 
saw the pretty pictures in white

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dwarf and wanted to make my 
stuff look like that. 

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Yeah well that was a witness 
still. 

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So my kind of like Fondest 
Memories of those days was like 

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literally you just spin any 
spare time that's like pouring 

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over the pages of dwarf again. 
And again, especially if you had

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a sick day off school over there
on the couch under my quilt or 

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whatever. 
And it's like a pilot to offset,

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this goes to him and he 
literally looking at The same 

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pictures over and over again. 
Yeah, never grew tired of it, 

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you know. 
No, it's yeah. 

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Each each issue was was 
devoured. 

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The easy I can certain points. 
I can I can remember of specific

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times. 
You know, the the white dwarf 

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with all the, the new background
for The Elder and Jesse's 

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striations, wasn't it? 
Yeah. 

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But wasn't that 127, wasn't it? 
Yes. 

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Yes. 
Are you was? 

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Yeah, yeah. 
So there you go. 

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It's like yeah. 
But that was a, that was a 

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Quantum Leap Forward in in the 
background and storytelling. 

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And also there was a the way 
that the Miniatures were painted

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and suddenly become a lot more. 
Ordered, you know each. 

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Yeah, there was a there was a 
definite next step to to what 

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had what had been before that I 
think I suppose like with 

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hindsight, you know, you know. 
And again this kind of my 

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favorite era but, you know, you 
think prior to that it was 

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obviously there was Mike was Tim
but Dale Hearst was still there,

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Ivan Bartley. 
Colin was still doing a bit of 

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painting, or whatever. 
And, so, all these quite 

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disparate Styles, we're still 
featured in white dwarf. 

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But with that held it with that 
elderly, Snap was essentially 

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mainly Mike Wright and Tim did a
couple where he was very closely

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following the sort of new style 
that my could develop but that 

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was really the beginning of, you
know, that Workshop style that 

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then lasted, you know, well 
through our area and, you know, 

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even if they in some ways but 
that was that that's, you know, 

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I think what you're talking 
about is that standardization. 

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We're all of a sudden, it had a,
you know, it wasn't about all 

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these different artists with 
different ideas and different 

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takes and how they paint. 
It was like this is the workshop

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way. 
Yeah, that was definitely. 

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Definitely the the beginnings of
the house style. 

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Heavy metal style call it. 
What you like? 

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That was? 
Yeah. 

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That that period around the end.
Yes. 

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I think it was the end of I 
suppose it was the when, when 

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40K was was growing Beyond just 
the, just the basic rogue Trader

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side of it. 
Yeah, it must have been the nine

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that was when things were, yeah,
that was when things were 

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starting to push forward and 
become, yeah, developer style 

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much more, which was great for, 
from my point of view because it

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was again, it was something that
I wanted to copy wanted to 

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emulate. 
Islet. 

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And It was that was the focus. 
Yeah, I'm asking it was just so 

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inspiring at the time as well 
wasn't win because I see it's a 

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bit of a cliche to belay 
everything at Jesse's feet. 

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That's true. 
But you know, he's figures 

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really that Quantum Leap in the 
actual figure design as well, 

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was the Catalyst for better 
painting but then literally when

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you bought those figures, the 
casting for so much better. 

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The designs so much cleaner. 
The all of a sudden. 

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I mean, literally, they were, 
you know, the Miniatures were 

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capable of being painted to a 
higher standard, you know, it's 

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Everything change. yeah, they 
gone from from fantasy figures 

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weather. 
A bit of a twist into into the 

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40K design ethic that that 
carried on from then on and 

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yeah, that it definitely opened 
the door. 

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I think two more. 
More painterly way of looking at

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things. 
That makes sense exhaust fumes 

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of. 
So, how long did you think? 

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You mentioned animals? 
So I had to smoke. 

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That was also slightly, you 
know, the fun thing, isn't it? 

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Like everyone's like, I found my
first set of acrylics. 

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That was it never touched. 
Another animal again, I do find 

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it. 
Funny, the enamel paints an oil.

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Paints, and, and things like 
that sort of seeping their way, 

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back into the, the miniature 
painters tool drawer again for 

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various effects and things like 
that. 

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And I'm just no, no, no. 
You said I but still the best. 

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Yeah. 
And I still don't know how he 

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did it. 
I really don't know. 

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The transition I've got with 
made the transition from acrylic

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from animals to acrylics was was
painful. 

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Literally, because I got used to
licking the brush and blending 

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and doing all that sort of thing
and then occasionally, you'd go.

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And you start painting with a 
bit of enamel. 

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00:13:03,300 --> 00:13:04,800
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

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00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,900
You never want to let your brush
when it's covered in Terps you 

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00:13:09,900 --> 00:13:11,200
certainly won't forget it. 
That's personal. 

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00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:18,600
Yeah. 
So did you said leave the first 

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00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:20,300
enamel? 
A sorry acrylic paint you bought

200
00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:24,300
with a The Citadel paint range. 
Guys. 

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00:13:24,900 --> 00:13:26,200
Yeah, I think so. 
Yeah. 

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00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:32,400
I mean, I was a college by then.
So I was using acrylic paints at

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art college for those would be 
tubes, which weren't really. 

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I tried using them on 
Miniatures, but they never 

205
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really worked as well. 
And I think I just gradually 

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worked my way through building 
up the buying, the Citadel ones.

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00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:53,000
Yeah, I mean even that there was
something magical to that. 

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00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:57,300
I remember my first set was the,
you know, the bass, fiddle color

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00:13:57,300 --> 00:14:01,300
set the red box, you know, and 
got the stuff I did back then 

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00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:03,000
was awful like I couldn't do 
skin. 

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00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,100
So skin was just Sunburst 
yellow. 

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00:14:05,100 --> 00:14:07,400
So I was like, painting 
sculpting with arches and the 

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00:14:07,408 --> 00:14:09,800
any flesh area would just be 
like bright yellow, you know, 

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00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:15,800
except for this on the sets and 
eventually when you talk to The 

215
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,700
Experts, I think that's when 
thing. 

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00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,900
Probably when things started to 
fall into place, it's like, wait

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00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:24,000
a minute for using thinks well 
for my get these shadows and 

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00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,400
blah, blah blah. 
So, it's very much, just a 

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00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,900
process of like, you know, keep 
buying get different colors. 

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00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:32,500
And once you got there and 
started understanding how colors

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00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:35,200
work and how away or, you know, 
you're not limited to sort of 

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00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,200
like a primary colors to fill it
comes to us all this exactly. 

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00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,700
Yeah. 
But again you would you very 

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00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:46,600
much limited to you know, who's 
around you and I think I mean 

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00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,800
Stewart you said that you didn't
have access to a workshop 

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00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:50,600
nearby. 
Right. 

227
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,300
So I was really lucky that 
initially my closest store was 

228
00:14:55,300 --> 00:14:58,100
Birmingham which is probably 
like, you know, it's like 35 

229
00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:01,800
minutes on the train but what 
was great was that Stewart 

230
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,500
Willis work there and Stewart 
was you know he was never any 

231
00:15:05,500 --> 00:15:07,400
metal guy but he did a little 
stint there, didn't he? 

232
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,600
And he was like a fucking 
awesome painter and So I was 

233
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,100
lucky that I had that, you know,
that I could go there and like 

234
00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:17,000
sort of worship at his altar a 
little bit and you know clean 

235
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,700
what I could from it. 
But if you've got that then all 

236
00:15:19,700 --> 00:15:22,200
of a sudden Things become a lot 
easier just in terms of really 

237
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,400
some leveling up and 
understanding what's going on in

238
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,000
it until this day like him and 
other guys, Richie gunsmiths of 

239
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,900
least kind of store manager, 
pipe people that were actually 

240
00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:33,500
really good hobbyists and 
Painters and I still have like, 

241
00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:41,200
like massive respect for them. 
Yeah, I mean my closest always 

242
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:45,200
brightening but that was that 
was still you are looking at a 

243
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:51,400
couple of hours to get there. 
So it was it was a rare occasion

244
00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,500
that I would I would never get 
there. 

245
00:15:54,100 --> 00:16:01,600
So yeah, I was I was pretty much
practicing my hobby in isolation

246
00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,900
most of the time. 
Yeah. 

247
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:07,200
So what we'll see if you had 
like You know, so you studied 

248
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:10,600
painting collecting Miniatures. 
What was the first miniature 

249
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,800
first paint job where you kind 
of? 

250
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:14,400
Felt like, we were something to 
click. 

251
00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:18,000
Now, this has gone from being, 
you know, you know what I mean, 

252
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,200
when it goes from just being 
crowned, like weight on a kind 

253
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:30,300
of getting this now, I think I 
did a, I did a Space Marine 

254
00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:39,600
Captain with with Blended 
highlights on on the, on the top

255
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,100
surfaces Edge and Edge, but 
you've now call Edge highlights.

256
00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:48,900
And I mean, it probably would 
look horrendously crew by any 

257
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,900
any real standard now. 
But I think that was my, that 

258
00:16:53,900 --> 00:16:58,800
was my moment where I can go, 
actually, I can I can get close 

259
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,100
to what I'm seeing in the 
magazine with this. 

260
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:06,000
What about you bizarrely enough?
It was Terminator Space Marine. 

261
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,800
Remember the stage by stage? 
Blood Angel captain. 

262
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:11,500
That might be. 
Yeah. 

263
00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:17,800
And I remember I was up in 
Norwich was still there, but it 

264
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,700
was called, but they literally 
used to unbox box sets and so 

265
00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:22,900
fingers individually. 
So I was up there, visiting my 

266
00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:26,000
grandmother bought that, you 
know, the Terminator captain. 

267
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,900
And I sat at a dining room table
with my Paints in the white 

268
00:17:28,900 --> 00:17:30,900
dwarf. 
Next to me and like English 

269
00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:33,800
Channel, a laborious Lee, 
followed everything that it was 

270
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,000
telling me to do and he did it 
as well. 

271
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,300
Yes, best thing I've ever 
painted and that was it. 

272
00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:40,600
I think once you've done that, 
because like Christ now there's,

273
00:17:41,100 --> 00:17:43,800
you know, there's no stopping. 
It is literally having that 

274
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,200
base. 
Skillset, you know, and it's one

275
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,200
thing reading, it will sing it. 
But the first time of actually 

276
00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,900
trying it and realizing it kind 
of works, and that's that 

277
00:17:52,900 --> 00:17:55,400
doesn't leashes The Floodgate, 
then you just, you know, no 

278
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,200
bounds, right? 
I can do anything now. 

279
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:02,200
Yeah, yeah. 
Was there a was there? 

280
00:18:03,500 --> 00:18:07,200
I know there was for me. 
But was there a particular set 

281
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:12,300
of Miniatures or thing that made
you want to go? 

282
00:18:12,300 --> 00:18:17,800
This is what I want to do. 
That's a good question. 

283
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,600
I don't know, I don't know what 
we thought about the fact, I can

284
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,700
seem like when was the, what 
point that I go. 

285
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:26,500
I want to be the other and 
having metal thing. 

286
00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:28,800
So, don't know. 
It was pretty early on, but 

287
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:30,600
like, for me, I did do some 
gaming. 

288
00:18:30,900 --> 00:18:33,000
The gaming was always kind of 
secondary to The Minister's 

289
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,800
themselves, but all I wanted to 
do is just paint, okay? 

290
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:41,000
And, and I know this is like 
cheesy, but there's like, the 

291
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,700
best analogy is, you know, if 
you read tolkien's, work, Lord 

292
00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:47,100
of the Rings, he talks about the
dwarves and the fact that they 

293
00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:49,000
and their younger days, the 
Dwarfs. 

294
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,700
Just like making stuff for the 
love of making it and they were 

295
00:18:51,700 --> 00:18:53,800
like making all this cool 
weapons and armor and every like

296
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,500
giving it away because they 
didn't care about its value. 

297
00:18:56,500 --> 00:18:59,200
They just all they wanted to do 
was make it and that was exactly

298
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:00,600
what paint toy soldiers are like
that. 

299
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,300
I would because you're in had 
limited access to figured you'd 

300
00:19:03,300 --> 00:19:05,700
only have one could afford, but 
if I knew other people had 

301
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:07,900
things, I didn't have. 
I thought y'all peanut for you 

302
00:19:08,300 --> 00:19:10,500
because all I cared about was 
like, give me access to it, more

303
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:12,800
figures to paint, you know? 
I was just, yeah. 

304
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:14,800
All I wanted to do was paint, 
paint paint, paint paint. 

305
00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:18,600
That was all I cared about, you 
know, and it was just so like 

306
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,500
for whatever. 
I don't know why it is so 

307
00:19:20,500 --> 00:19:23,700
absorbing it was just so you 
know and of course there was the

308
00:19:23,700 --> 00:19:26,300
whole thing of you wanted to 
improve and all the rest of it. 

309
00:19:26,300 --> 00:19:28,300
But it was more than that. 
It was just something that you 

310
00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:30,000
could just completely become 
Lost in. 

311
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,700
You know what, why why I still 
don't to this day. 

312
00:19:33,700 --> 00:19:37,800
Know why, you know, painting 
appeals to some people. 

313
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:39,700
There's four other game, you 
know there's plenty of Gamers 

314
00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:42,900
who for whom painting is just 
like a chore or they hate it or 

315
00:19:42,900 --> 00:19:43,500
whatever. 
Yeah. 

316
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,000
Why is it that certain people 
just get that bug? 

317
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,500
I don't know, you know. 
Yeah, that's it. 

318
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:55,300
Yeah, it's a funny one. 
I think it yet to me, was 

319
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,400
similar to what you're saying, 
is it was an outlet for my 

320
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,200
creativity. 
I mean, you know, I've gone to 

321
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:07,300
art college, I could draw a bit.
And that sort of thing, I could 

322
00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:11,400
buy could paint a bit, but 
painting miniatures was a was a 

323
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,900
real sort of proper outlet for 
my creativity. 

324
00:20:14,900 --> 00:20:18,900
And that's that I've got my 
really, yeah, that I found my, 

325
00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:22,000
my home there. 
Mmm. 

326
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,200
Yes, it's so I can I can see 
exactly where you're coming 

327
00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,200
from. 
That idea that, yeah, this is 

328
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,300
all I want to do is to just 
paint stuff and it was, you 

329
00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:37,000
know, you've every spare minute.
Oh, I've got her. 

330
00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:42,000
Yeah, literally down, and finish
off that, that bit on on him or 

331
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,300
whatever. 
So, I mean, it was, it was like 

332
00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:48,600
so absorbing and they kind of 
took over. 

333
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,000
I'd be thinking about painting 
when I wasn't painting. 

334
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,700
If you still want to make it was
just really. 

335
00:20:53,700 --> 00:20:55,100
I mean, that was the, it was the
defining. 

336
00:20:55,300 --> 00:20:57,500
Single stop these days, it's 
called The Hobby. 

337
00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:00,300
But for me back then it was 
really just about, you know, the

338
00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:02,500
Miniatures. 
And as I say gaming was kind of 

339
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:05,000
like an appendage to that. 
Yeah. 

340
00:21:07,100 --> 00:21:10,800
Yeah, same here. 
Yeah yeah I played Precious few 

341
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:16,500
games. 
Even when I was at college with 

342
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,300
friends who are also into it, I 
still play very few games before

343
00:21:20,300 --> 00:21:23,500
I before I joined Games 
Workshop, My focus was always 

344
00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:25,000
on. 
Yeah, just come the painted. 

345
00:21:25,900 --> 00:21:30,000
So how about that? 
I mean, I guess this sort of 

346
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:34,000
speeding up the conversation 
alone a bit but like I remember 

347
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:38,500
your tail Center or the golden 
demon winning piece and then 

348
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:41,500
what within the six months to a 
year after that you were at the 

349
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:43,800
studio, right? 
So yeah. 

350
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,600
What was that? 
What's the story behind like you

351
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,400
won the golden demon winner. 
But then actually getting, you 

352
00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:52,900
know, applying for a job and 
getting in there and what was 

353
00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:56,800
what went on? 
Well, It's so long ago, I'm not 

354
00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,700
sure exactly that. 
What the timeline was I'd 

355
00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:01,800
entered. 
I'd entered a couple of years of

356
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:07,800
golden demons before and first 
year, I got nowhere second year,

357
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:13,600
I got to the got through the 
Heats and got to the final third

358
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,600
year. 
I got through and and one was 

359
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,000
hold on a minute, that was 92, 
right? 

360
00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:23,700
Yeah, yeah. 
So maybe just for listeners as 

361
00:22:23,700 --> 00:22:26,400
well, and maybe for our benefit 
because We're all getting on. 

362
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,600
So that was 92. 
You joined what 93 92 know. 

363
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:36,800
I joined I was in Nottingham by 
the end of 92. 

364
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,500
I think it was about October 92,
something like that. 

365
00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:44,800
Okay, cool. 
It was in, but I've been sort of

366
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,900
pestering, that's the way, 
right? 

367
00:22:52,300 --> 00:22:57,200
So I sent some photos of my 
miniature Up to Mike McVeigh 

368
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:02,800
before I sent some drawings up 
to see if I could get a job as 

369
00:23:02,808 --> 00:23:07,400
an artist, which was way pie in 
the sky. 

370
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:18,100
And so I guess that by the time,
it got round to Golden demon and

371
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:24,200
and I think they were at, I've 
got an idea that at that Year's 

372
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,000
golden demon door games. 
Today they were actively 

373
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:32,600
Scouting For for new painters, 
so I guess kind of my name was 

374
00:23:34,100 --> 00:23:38,000
already on the radar. 
I don't know, but that's how you

375
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:45,900
know that's what led to. 
I wonder the thing and I can't 

376
00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:49,900
remember whether I approached 
them saying, you know, here I am

377
00:23:49,900 --> 00:23:53,000
again, this time I've won a 
golden demon or whether they 

378
00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,500
approached me and said you know 
would you like to come up? 

379
00:23:55,700 --> 00:24:00,800
If you, but that's what happened
in the end, it was all very 

380
00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,800
quick after that. 
Hmm, okay. 

381
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:08,500
So then that's like 92. 
I was Jim Kenney, rough country 

382
00:24:08,500 --> 00:24:13,500
of 94. 
Josh, when did you come along on

383
00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:28,400
the should paint a river? 
I didn't have any models. 

384
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,000
I know, I wasn't I painted like 
a couple of years and it was 

385
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,400
terrible and like you guys are 
just standing around looking at 

386
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,700
things just thinking, this is 
crap. 

387
00:24:35,700 --> 00:24:38,800
This guy, this guy is not a 
heavy metal that somehow I've 

388
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,300
looked it and I think was a 95. 
Yeah, I think was 95. 

389
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,900
Yeah, I'm just, yeah, really. 
You guys are desperate making ug

390
00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:47,300
place a desperate. 
That's what it was. 

391
00:24:47,300 --> 00:24:51,400
I think we used to do. 
Rayvon. 

392
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:55,200
I remember when we met Park's 
first joined and what was he 

393
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,300
trying to paint? 
See the words I'm using trying 

394
00:24:57,300 --> 00:24:59,200
to pay. 
He was trying to pay this 

395
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,000
laughs. 
You should try to paint these 

396
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,900
mounted. 
Vampire lore and he just kept 

397
00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:08,500
messing up the red. 
And I was like, dude, you've won

398
00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:11,900
a golden demon twice if you 
can't do, but I've read you 

399
00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:15,400
can't look at his room shopping 
but, you know, it's like 

400
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:21,000
backpacks is a God now, right? 
It is literally one of the The 

401
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,800
finest painters there ever will 
be, you know, but everyone got 

402
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,100
their, their little share of 
being ribbed, you know, King 

403
00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:31,600
cyber was Richard Potter. 
I mean, he was pretty rough when

404
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,000
he joined. 
I remember there being a bit of 

405
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,800
a kind of like how the hell's 
this guy he sort of got through 

406
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,800
the door and he ended up being 
great to. 

407
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,700
I think that was the other great
thing about the other metal team

408
00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:44,000
for all its faults sir. 
Really when you're doing that 

409
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,500
stuff day in day out and 
surrounded by, you know, really 

410
00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:50,700
quite talented people. 
I'm just absorbing that, you 

411
00:25:50,700 --> 00:25:54,400
know, Very quickly, you know, 
you can't fail but to go through

412
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,900
the room, get you get real good 
real fast. 

413
00:25:58,300 --> 00:26:02,200
I mean, if you, if you look at 
the first thing that I did for 

414
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,600
for every metal, which was a 
repaint of the the old. 

415
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:09,700
It's a fantasy regiments factors
you regiments. 

416
00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:12,800
Like they wanted to re-release 
them in the new bright colors. 

417
00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:18,500
I think one of each if you look 
at it it's actually there on the

418
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,300
there on the stuff of Ian's. 
Yep. 

419
00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:27,000
Site, he's got the photograph of
the six that I did and they are 

420
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,200
hideous. 
But I love those. 

421
00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:57,300
Early goblins and Orcs the big 
UNS and stuff like that, which 

422
00:26:57,300 --> 00:27:02,600
is maybe less than six months 
later that it's a Quantum Leap 

423
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,400
and you just yeah, like Dave 
says, you, you're surrounded by 

424
00:27:06,408 --> 00:27:12,300
people who are highly talented 
and bouncing ideas off each 

425
00:27:12,300 --> 00:27:16,000
other and and and not just the 
figure painters, I mean, you 

426
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,300
know, everybody in the studio 
because it was an open open plan

427
00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:22,200
office. 
Buddy in the studio, used to 

428
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,500
take note of what everybody else
was doing. 

429
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,500
So you get the sculptors 
pitching in. 

430
00:27:29,500 --> 00:27:34,100
You get the artist pitching in, 
everybody would go all, you 

431
00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:39,000
could do that. 
You could do this and you can't 

432
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:44,500
help but really get quite good. 
Under those under those 

433
00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:46,200
circumstances. 
I mean, they were, there are a 

434
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,700
couple of notable exceptions 
that didn't last very long, 

435
00:27:48,700 --> 00:27:57,000
because they didn't Didn't. 
Didn't develop on the hull. 

436
00:27:57,500 --> 00:28:05,100
Yeah, once you were in there, 
you you You know, you would very

437
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:09,200
quickly increase the in in 
standard. 

438
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,500
Yeah, I think interestingly and 
then this is kind of going back,

439
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:15,100
a bit to that conversation 
around him at the 

440
00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:17,000
standardization and all the rest
of it. 

441
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,900
You know, that development of 
that kind of Workshop skull or 

442
00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:22,500
every necklace style. 
But I really felt that, you 

443
00:28:22,500 --> 00:28:25,200
know, you know, growing up with 
it and it obviously the key 

444
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,500
player here they seem proud. 
We've mentioned Tim and so Dale 

445
00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:32,700
and Ivan or rest of it. 
But there was this Be cool, kind

446
00:28:32,700 --> 00:28:35,300
of like that, was that Golden 
Era kind of thing going on? 

447
00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:39,800
And I think probably yourself 
and just prior to you with Neal 

448
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,800
wasn't its O'Neill. 
And then yourself, I think you 

449
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,200
guys Feliz. 
My point of view, you were the 

450
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,400
lucky ones. 
You were right on the back, end 

451
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,100
of that but you had some 
connection to that prior are and

452
00:28:51,100 --> 00:28:52,900
good like Tim was still there. 
Yeah, whatever. 

453
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,000
And there's like, Kev white and 
bla bla bla but by time I I got 

454
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,300
there that had ended like it was
over. 

455
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,700
And like you know, you guys had 
some memory Of that or I can 

456
00:29:02,700 --> 00:29:05,400
remember Tim, I remember over 
but then by the time I got 

457
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,600
there, it was really in that. 
And at least initially in that, 

458
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:14,600
for me, that really kind of dire
stage of heavy metal where they 

459
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,400
were bright. 
Red thing was just becoming 

460
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,200
ridiculous. 
And I remember the first thing 

461
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,700
is, I painted with two ghosts. 
So awful figures Gary, Molly 

462
00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:24,100
ghosts. 
And, you know, I'll marry, you 

463
00:29:24,108 --> 00:29:26,900
know, he gives you the figures 
and I was thinking really yeah. 

464
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,300
Gray, but he's like, do one red?
And one blue, I'm like looked at

465
00:29:30,300 --> 00:29:33,200
him thinking he was joking and 
he wasn't choking hazard. 

466
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,800
Oh my God, you know, it's like 
is this really happening? 

467
00:29:36,900 --> 00:29:39,600
Yeah, but it was that bad. 
Yeah, that was, it was just a 

468
00:29:39,608 --> 00:29:41,700
low point. 
I think in miniature painting 

469
00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:45,200
where it was all, you know, 
almost it was apparent becoming 

470
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,300
a parody of itself like the 
bright Reds and become so, so 

471
00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:55,400
much of a joke, you know. 
Yeah it was yeah there was a 

472
00:29:55,700 --> 00:30:03,600
whole period from so yes. 
They the 94-95 time when yeah. 

473
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:09,000
It was definitely everything. 
Got it was that everything had 

474
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,000
to have some red on it. 
I touched on this in one of the 

475
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,600
questions that was that, that 
Josh sent us. 

476
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:20,900
It was that was where they were.
You, did you develop that? 

477
00:30:21,100 --> 00:30:23,200
Those colors or were you told to
do those colors? 

478
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,000
And it was, it was yes, 
everything had to have some red 

479
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,200
on it, you know, whether it was 
good, a sphere hafthor, a gun 

480
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,100
casing. 
I mean, even though the cat a 

481
00:30:34,108 --> 00:30:39,100
chance, yes, I can cut a chance.
You know, I I've fought tooth 

482
00:30:39,100 --> 00:30:42,900
and nail to get these done in 
camo. 

483
00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:50,600
I wanted to do these in camo 
colors and It was, it was a hell

484
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:56,200
of a job, too. 
Get those with the camo trousers

485
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,300
on them and then it was like 
right now give them red 

486
00:30:58,300 --> 00:31:12,000
bandanas, I mean this is a 
strange thing now is that and 

487
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,500
again it's amazing how things 
can become kind of cool. 

488
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,500
You know, we thought, you know, 
this time passes but when you 

489
00:31:17,500 --> 00:31:20,500
get the jar stick the work you 
do on your stuff and you can get

490
00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:23,100
me. 
I'm thinking also of I've gotten

491
00:31:23,100 --> 00:31:24,700
got the guy in the Denmark's 
buttons. 

492
00:31:24,700 --> 00:31:30,300
Now she's so I'll come on, multi
multi, golden demon. 

493
00:31:30,300 --> 00:31:33,100
Winner used to be a metal guy on
Instagram. 

494
00:31:33,100 --> 00:31:36,100
He's many textures currently 
doing to our needs and stuff is 

495
00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:40,100
really cool, painter. 
God, oh, no, 

496
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,300
Follow. 
But make it look good either, 

497
00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:58,400
that's interesting, but at the 
time when it, you know, is 

498
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,500
literally like, oh, he's a 
higher for him cause he's got a 

499
00:32:00,508 --> 00:32:04,800
bright red sphere. 
So really, it was pretty, you 

500
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,200
know, if it's always trying as 
well because I think no one's 

501
00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:11,100
felt that, that was right, none 
of the paint has agreed with it 

502
00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:14,500
and other designers like to know
the artist liked it, but it was 

503
00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:16,800
just, that was the way things 
were at the time. 

504
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,200
I mean, you know, thankfully, we
came out of that but it was a 

505
00:32:20,208 --> 00:32:25,000
good couple of years of dust. 
You know, people kind of bearing

506
00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:28,900
that. 
Yeah I mean you were I think 

507
00:32:29,700 --> 00:32:34,500
were pretty much one of the ones
that really pushed for 

508
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,800
forgetting. 
A more realistic style. 

509
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,600
Yeah, I can remember the 
arguments over black, undercoat 

510
00:32:42,300 --> 00:32:43,900
yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

511
00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:51,600
You definitely were one of the 
ones that was pushing for. 

512
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:58,300
Getting away from these bright 
primary colors on everything and

513
00:32:58,300 --> 00:33:01,300
it was it was good that we 
finally got past that. 

514
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:05,800
Yeah I mean I think for me that 
was because I had that slight 

515
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,200
not necessarily an interest at 
least of knowledge of like 

516
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,100
historical gaming and at the 
time I was very much you know I 

517
00:33:12,100 --> 00:33:14,400
was really interested in what 
with the Perry twins are doing 

518
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,600
and stuff. 
So I was seeing like people are 

519
00:33:17,900 --> 00:33:19,400
producing really great 
Miniatures. 

520
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,900
Over black, undergirds you can 
do realistic. 

521
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:23,900
Looking color schemes and still 
look awesome. 

522
00:33:24,300 --> 00:33:27,500
And it doesn't have to be dirty 
and brown if you know what I 

523
00:33:27,508 --> 00:33:31,300
mean, you know and then you know
got even Mike's like paint 

524
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:49,400
because 
there was like a feeling that 

525
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,700
when painting go back, go back. 
Being some of the most 

526
00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:55,700
sophisticated. 
Again, just a bit more refined 

527
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,100
and I think, you know, we did 
it, we started to do it. 

528
00:33:58,100 --> 00:34:01,400
And then God, I mean again I'm 
jumping all over but remember 

529
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,200
how golden demon is really got 
to the point where it was just a

530
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,700
joke. 
Like there was one particular 

531
00:34:07,700 --> 00:34:09,800
year where some really crappy 
high of one. 

532
00:34:10,300 --> 00:34:12,699
And it was, it was a bit of a 
scandal within the company 

533
00:34:12,699 --> 00:34:15,199
because it was apparently 
basically chosen by the sales 

534
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:18,500
team because they were like, we 
need to sell more piles and his 

535
00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:21,500
piece-of-shit, won the golden 
demon and then the following 

536
00:34:21,500 --> 00:34:24,400
year, Thank God, the company 
went like, wait a minute, and 

537
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,800
that was when Mike instigated 
the, what was it called? 

538
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,300
Nina. 
The Masters sing or whatever it 

539
00:34:29,300 --> 00:34:33,000
was. 
And he emailed out or not even 

540
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,900
sent letters out to, like, all 
the old painters that you had 

541
00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:37,800
any contact deal to us for 
saying, look, we're really 

542
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,000
trying to revive painting. 
Let's try and get golden demon 

543
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:45,100
back to what it used to be. 
And that really, was the, the 

544
00:34:45,100 --> 00:34:47,000
turning point. 
I think of, like, wait on, let's

545
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,800
bring painting back as something
worthwhile with in the hobby 

546
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:51,900
because it really been 
denigrated. 

547
00:34:52,100 --> 00:34:55,000
You know, for a good two or 
three years, you know, and we 

548
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,900
were unfortunate to have sort of
been there. 

549
00:34:59,300 --> 00:35:03,600
I think this is the worst. 
This is something that would 

550
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:13,100
probably be a hell of a shock to
Modern fans but Amongst the 

551
00:35:13,100 --> 00:35:20,200
studio figure painting was seen,
as we were entry-level. 

552
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:28,500
We were, you know, we were the 
sort of One Step Above People 

553
00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:34,100
making the coffee. 
You know that was it was it was 

554
00:35:34,100 --> 00:35:38,400
seen as anybody can do it for a 
long time. 

555
00:35:38,700 --> 00:35:43,200
There was that attitude that 
that you know all it is is to 

556
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,500
understand to make the boxes 
look good. 

557
00:35:48,900 --> 00:35:55,600
And it wasn't until a bit 
earlier pre our period. 

558
00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,100
Like Dave says, the time when 
you had the all the individual 

559
00:36:00,100 --> 00:36:06,100
painters with their individual 
Styles, it was seen, it was 

560
00:36:06,100 --> 00:36:10,600
given a bit more respect and 
then after later on in the later

561
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,600
90s and going forward, it was 
given a little bit more respect.

562
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,400
We happen to be there during the
bit where it was just like look 

563
00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:19,300
you just paint. 
Stuff. 

564
00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:21,900
Shut up and get on with it. 
Then what was it? 

565
00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:26,000
Like bit of that attitude to it.
But do you remember Stewart was 

566
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,400
like I've recently started sorry
go ahead. 

567
00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:31,900
I'm just going to say just one 
night guys were just going to 

568
00:36:31,908 --> 00:36:33,900
tape it tape. 
It take a quick break, have a 

569
00:36:33,908 --> 00:36:36,400
quick refreshment and this 
conversation is definitely not 

570
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,600
over. 
We'll be back in just a moment. 

571
00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:47,600
Okay, so we're back after a 
little tea break. 

572
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,100
So guys, where did we leave off?
Something about red? 

573
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:56,400
You mentioned a lot about Reds 
with red coats and 

574
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:57,300
what-have-you. 
Yeah. 

575
00:36:57,500 --> 00:36:59,200
So it's been very, very 
interesting though. 

576
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:01,500
Been bit of a really good 
insight into what's, what, you 

577
00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:03,700
know, the mindset of the 
painters and that kind of thing.

578
00:37:03,700 --> 00:37:09,200
Because like, as much as I love 
the red period of that time, 

579
00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:11,200
that's that was my time when I 
got into the hobby. 

580
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,600
But I, you know, I got into 
like, you know, Third Edition 

581
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,500
and that kind of stuff and 
obviously, Was a massive change 

582
00:37:16,500 --> 00:37:20,100
in our Direction and painting 
style and figure direction that 

583
00:37:20,100 --> 00:37:23,900
kind of stuff. 
Which do you like, which do you 

584
00:37:23,908 --> 00:37:25,600
guys prefer? 
Do you prefer the sort of the 

585
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:32,800
more 80s rule, sort of, you 
know, very dirty gritty style to

586
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,500
what hammer or did you prefer? 
Well, I guess I know your answer

587
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:39,400
but do you prefer them sort of 
90s? 

588
00:37:40,500 --> 00:37:43,900
You know, the red golden age of 
Games, Workshop. 

589
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:53,000
Stewart, it's kind of a mixture 
for me. 

590
00:37:53,000 --> 00:38:01,300
I mean, I'm always going to have
a soft spot for the the That 

591
00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:05,400
period because it was a, you 
know, a time of my life and what

592
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:11,100
have you? 
But as far as styles of painting

593
00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:14,300
that I like, I like to have a 
mix of it. 

594
00:38:14,300 --> 00:38:19,300
You know, there is space for the
strong bright colors when 

595
00:38:19,300 --> 00:38:23,800
they're used with natural tones 
as well as or to offset and you 

596
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,400
know I like yeah I'm a sort of a
bit of a magpie with it. 

597
00:38:29,100 --> 00:38:33,900
I couldn't really I mean, I love
looking at the pictures of the 

598
00:38:33,900 --> 00:38:37,100
old stuff I've got, I've 
literally above my monitor here.

599
00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:42,700
I've got the heavy metal poster 
from white dwarf, 100 right by 

600
00:38:42,700 --> 00:38:46,400
my wall and I love looking at 
all that old stuff. 

601
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:51,500
Yeah, but I'll you know 
similarly I like what I like to 

602
00:38:51,500 --> 00:38:57,000
what we were doing for four 
large part of it and I like the 

603
00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:03,100
stuff that has come since and I 
think Think what the heavy metal

604
00:39:03,100 --> 00:39:06,200
team have got? 
Now, is that balance between 

605
00:39:07,700 --> 00:39:15,600
strong primary colors, bright 
colors, and a bit of a bit of 

606
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,300
realism in there as well. 
So you've, you know, they've got

607
00:39:19,300 --> 00:39:22,700
that nice balance going on, just
what I like. 

608
00:39:23,500 --> 00:39:26,200
I'm also a question to. 
Yeah, you know, I was under that

609
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:27,800
was under the impression. 
Mike, big. 

610
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,500
They had sort of started that 
kind of, you know, His style was

611
00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:35,100
very unique, very clean crisp, 
beautiful bright colors. 

612
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,800
I thought it was his sort of 
influence that sort of changed 

613
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:44,900
the way that, you know, the art 
Direction went and in regards to

614
00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:47,000
the model colors and that kind 
of thing. 

615
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,700
But the color palette basically 
was is that the case or was it 

616
00:39:50,707 --> 00:39:53,000
more of a more of an art 
Direction? 

617
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,700
Kind of definitely wasn't the 
case. 

618
00:39:54,900 --> 00:39:56,100
This wasn't the case. 
Okay. 

619
00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:01,900
So basically like and against 
you like, You were there prior 

620
00:40:01,900 --> 00:40:03,200
to me. 
So you might have a different 

621
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,200
take on this, but if you really 
look at the first thing you have

622
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,800
to do, is look at Mike's work. 
Okay. 

623
00:40:09,300 --> 00:40:12,900
So you had the great clean 
style, amazing blending, you 

624
00:40:12,900 --> 00:40:16,000
know that the thing that became 
the workshop in stuck in how 

625
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,500
style came from Mike but what he
was doing, was always awesome. 

626
00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:23,300
They were beautiful they were 
really well-balanced punjab's 

627
00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:26,400
great Miniatures, the way he was
using quite clean. 

628
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,500
Bright colors was not that 
bright red spear stops and heil.

629
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:36,400
Shit that we ended up with okay 
that came from elsewhere, which 

630
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,300
was basically someone taking 
what their understanding of what

631
00:40:40,300 --> 00:40:44,500
my could done and laying that 
out as law, okay? 

632
00:40:44,500 --> 00:40:47,300
But they didn't quite understand
how it worked and it you know, 

633
00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:51,500
you look at what Mike was doing 
and then what that especially 

634
00:40:51,500 --> 00:40:54,800
that really poor period of heavy
metal, where was blatantly this 

635
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,600
rubbish and so they bear no 
relation whatsoever. 

636
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:02,500
But somehow it became I 
understood that all this. 

637
00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:06,600
I mean it was derivative from 
what my could come up with but 

638
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,500
that wasn't what my could set 
out to do. 

639
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,000
That wasn't what? 
He's paying jobs look like, 

640
00:41:11,100 --> 00:41:13,400
okay? 
They're very different. 

641
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:21,500
Now, there's also this this. 
this came up in a conversation, 

642
00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:30,000
I was having with somebody not 
so long ago that The everything 

643
00:41:30,500 --> 00:41:33,000
everything that was painting 
was, was Mike's. 

644
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:42,000
You know, when, when I've, you 
know, old pictures of Miniatures

645
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,700
pop up on Twitter and Facebook 
and I go, oh, that's great. 

646
00:41:45,700 --> 00:41:48,000
I pay you that because I love it
when that happens. 

647
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,500
It's just like. 
Yeah, I paid it that people oh 

648
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,200
really, I've actually had people
just what I thought might be 

649
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,900
evaded, all the painting it was 
There was, there was that little

650
00:41:59,900 --> 00:42:06,100
bit of Legend, the sort of 
spiraled into the, the I think 

651
00:42:06,100 --> 00:42:09,800
the idea of what Dave's talking 
about that, I mean, no doubt 

652
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,000
about it. 
Mike's painting style was a huge

653
00:42:13,100 --> 00:42:15,700
huge, probably the biggest 
influence on the heavy metal 

654
00:42:15,700 --> 00:42:23,800
style, but it wasn't Purely his 
work that that set it all in 

655
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,200
motion. 
Yeah. 

656
00:42:28,100 --> 00:42:29,100
Okay. 
That's very interesting 

657
00:42:29,100 --> 00:42:32,900
reflection there. 
Yeah, and Mike's my external 

658
00:42:32,900 --> 00:42:36,100
style sort of changed a little 
bit to, I saw more recently, he 

659
00:42:36,100 --> 00:42:41,700
painted up some sort of modern 
order like a dark Reaper or 

660
00:42:41,700 --> 00:42:42,900
something like that. 
I don't know. 

661
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,500
It's quite a few years ago now, 
but I think he I think he moved 

662
00:42:45,500 --> 00:42:51,200
to the US and he worked for 
maybe the company that was I 

663
00:42:51,207 --> 00:42:54,300
think was the coaster something 
doing Dandy kind of stuff. 

664
00:42:54,300 --> 00:42:59,700
Yeah we're seeing Privateer 
Press I read some amazing 

665
00:42:59,700 --> 00:43:01,500
painter. 
I can't remember her name, but, 

666
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,600
wow, she was just phenomenal. 
The stuff that she was painting.

667
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:08,000
This is incredible, because we 
did amazing thing is when he met

668
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:09,200
her. 
I remember her. 

669
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:11,700
Well, she's never seen a toy 
soldier in my life. 

670
00:43:11,700 --> 00:43:13,500
He lived really started 
painting. 

671
00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:17,500
Yeah, after meeting Mike. 
Wow, when yeah, so that just 

672
00:43:17,500 --> 00:43:20,200
goes to prove, you know, you 
don't need that long, you know? 

673
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,500
So well, she's late, she's 
incredible paintings. 

674
00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:28,100
I mean, by the timeline by the 
time that At. 

675
00:43:29,500 --> 00:43:33,100
What's up 94? 
95? 

676
00:43:33,100 --> 00:43:37,700
Mike had moved away from even 
being being in the heavy metal 

677
00:43:37,700 --> 00:43:39,900
team? 
Yeah, it was, wasn't it? 

678
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:46,100
He was doing his books, he was a
thing unto himself, the painting

679
00:43:46,100 --> 00:43:55,300
guides, which we all contributed
to You know, again that that was

680
00:43:56,500 --> 00:43:59,600
it was his project and he did 
most of the work on them but all

681
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:01,900
the all the painters contributed
to them. 

682
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:07,100
But yeah, he was by the time 
that mean Dave were properly 

683
00:44:07,100 --> 00:44:09,500
settled in there. 
He was more or less. 

684
00:44:10,900 --> 00:44:15,600
A separate entity of his own 
when he won his books and the 

685
00:44:15,700 --> 00:44:19,000
the big conversion pieces that 
he was doing well, that was your

686
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:20,000
thing. 
Wasn't it Stewart. 

687
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,500
I mean, I think and this 
probably happens to almost every

688
00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:26,800
painter in the heavy metal team.
They get, there's some project, 

689
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,300
whether it's an army Burke or 
whatever or a new game release 

690
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:34,800
that happens to be their kind 
of, you know, they're coming out

691
00:44:34,900 --> 00:44:37,000
kind of thing. 
All their graduation party and I

692
00:44:37,008 --> 00:44:41,000
think for you, Stuart you had to
was the You know, you got that 

693
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,100
conversion book, where basically
my cost you to paint up all 

694
00:44:44,100 --> 00:44:48,100
these conversions. 
And also was Warhammer Quest and

695
00:44:48,100 --> 00:44:50,700
you basically, you know, because
the Plastics were pretty good 

696
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,100
back there right now compared to
the way it was. 

697
00:44:54,700 --> 00:45:00,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And that was like, your thing 

698
00:45:00,900 --> 00:45:01,900
and you did it. 
Yeah. 

699
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,500
But that was like totally, you 
know, if there's like a high 

700
00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:09,700
point in the street too much, 
painting career for me, it was a

701
00:45:09,707 --> 00:45:11,400
lie. 
That was it. 

702
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,000
You were just like I'm going to 
get right? 

703
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,900
The rules here, you know? 
Yeah. 

704
00:45:15,900 --> 00:45:17,700
Absolutely. 
That was my thing I do. 

705
00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:23,500
Yeah, I can distinctly remember 
the time of the thinking at that

706
00:45:23,500 --> 00:45:27,900
time is exactly what you said. 
I wanted to make these Plastics 

707
00:45:27,900 --> 00:45:30,000
that were yeah for the time they
were good, these days. 

708
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,500
They look awfully primitive. 
Yeah. 

709
00:45:32,500 --> 00:45:36,800
I wanted to make them look As 
good as the metal figures. 

710
00:45:37,900 --> 00:45:39,400
Yeah. 
That was yeah. 

711
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:44,200
That was definitely my thing. 
Yours was demons. 

712
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,600
I think Dave wasn't it. 
It's yeah, I guess the great 

713
00:45:48,600 --> 00:46:01,100
unclean. 
One was probably my thing but 

714
00:46:01,500 --> 00:46:05,600
you know, when I eventually got 
my shot at running the team, Um 

715
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,600
I was lucky that it coincided 
with the second round of High 

716
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,100
Elves you know. 
It would have been the high up 

717
00:46:11,100 --> 00:46:16,100
the second higher for me but and
so you know my I did my tub sort

718
00:46:16,100 --> 00:46:18,900
of thumping and like we're going
to do a new high Elf Army and 

719
00:46:18,900 --> 00:46:21,700
this going to have brown 
spacecrafts there's not gonna be

720
00:46:21,700 --> 00:46:27,300
any red on it and luckily you 
know to be fair you know it was 

721
00:46:27,300 --> 00:46:30,900
250 and Allen at the time and 
they kind of let us run with it.

722
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,100
I'm pretty sure they weren't 
100% sure it was going to work 

723
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:38,300
but it looks Basically, it ends 
up looking great, and I still 

724
00:46:38,300 --> 00:46:41,400
see on Facebook to this day. 
People talk about that that are 

725
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,300
me like, wow, it looks awesome 
because it really worked. 

726
00:46:44,300 --> 00:46:47,700
It was like, it's still a white 
higher farming but, you know, he

727
00:46:47,700 --> 00:46:49,800
sort of like, red and yellow and
all the rest of it. 

728
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,000
It was like, turquoise and blue 
and wouldn't species. 

729
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,800
Probably it worked great. 
And from that point on, there 

730
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,100
was a big shift towards. 
Let's, we know, we can get away 

731
00:46:59,100 --> 00:47:02,100
with doing more kind of 
realistic natural colors, but 

732
00:47:02,100 --> 00:47:05,500
without it having to go to, you 
know, that kind of Which I think

733
00:47:05,500 --> 00:47:08,800
is not true anyway but that 
whole kind of all dirty dark. 

734
00:47:09,500 --> 00:47:11,900
You know, the people taught what
hemisphere was about. 

735
00:47:11,900 --> 00:47:15,300
So I think there was that so for
me that was kind of high point 

736
00:47:15,300 --> 00:47:17,700
where I'd like proved a point 
but we can do this. 

737
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,300
And then in terms of a, an 
actual individual figure, I 

738
00:47:21,308 --> 00:47:23,700
think it was that great and 
clean one, which I did take, 

739
00:47:23,700 --> 00:47:28,800
like, six weeks to cut him up or
something, where it's kind of 

740
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,900
reading the Lord of the Rings. 
And so, are you always do? 

741
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,600
Stuart, what was it? 
What do you think was your? 

742
00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:13,200
I think. 
Yeah, if it's an individual 

743
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:22,900
figure I think possibly either 
the the Gorka morka or qual boss

744
00:48:23,100 --> 00:48:25,300
that nobody ever saw. 
Hmm. 

745
00:48:25,500 --> 00:48:34,700
Which was the the one that they 
based a recent plastic on, I've 

746
00:48:34,700 --> 00:48:41,100
got to be all right. 
This guy, right? 

747
00:48:41,100 --> 00:48:43,100
Never see this. 
This this one. 

748
00:48:44,700 --> 00:48:45,800
That's the reason that's the 
one. 

749
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:47,200
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

750
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,500
So this is proper I know socks. 
Yeah. 

751
00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:51,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Yeah. 

752
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,900
That was a games day one. 
So it never actually appeared. 

753
00:48:55,900 --> 00:48:58,400
I don't think a photograph of it
ever actually appeared in white 

754
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:06,200
dwarf or the, the grow-op red 
Gobo. 

755
00:49:06,300 --> 00:49:11,500
That was a big favorite of mine 
and I really enjoyed doing, but 

756
00:49:11,500 --> 00:49:15,100
I think that I think, I think 
the single thing that Most proud

757
00:49:15,100 --> 00:49:19,500
of is that page of wizards 
plastic resin Plastics, right? 

758
00:49:19,500 --> 00:49:23,900
Yeah, the they were, they were 
part of the Talisman. 

759
00:49:24,700 --> 00:49:27,000
That's right releases, but they 
did bait. 

760
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,300
They start one on the cover. 
They stuck a free one on the 

761
00:49:29,300 --> 00:49:33,800
cover and put the whole lot 
because I think I think it was 

762
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,800
originally found that they were 
going to make a game just to be 

763
00:49:37,100 --> 00:49:40,600
sort of wizard combat game for 
them and then they at that got 

764
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:46,300
abandoned and they got subsumed 
into In to tell as models for 

765
00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:49,700
another, there was a lot of 
projects that went like that. 

766
00:49:51,100 --> 00:49:54,700
But yeah, I think that's 
probably the page the one page 

767
00:49:54,700 --> 00:49:57,200
that I'm most proud of. 
Yeah. 

768
00:49:57,500 --> 00:50:02,300
Yeah we're classic - hmm. 
I think you know, we've talked 

769
00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:06,500
about the various people over 
the years, I'm on the team but 

770
00:50:06,500 --> 00:50:11,500
for you Stuart like you know you
have a couple of Have you met 

771
00:50:11,500 --> 00:50:15,300
the law to see what? 
Like your your favorites or, you

772
00:50:15,300 --> 00:50:18,100
know whether it was, you know, 
that you like their work or that

773
00:50:18,100 --> 00:50:24,700
particularly like the way they 
did things or hold Mueller. 

774
00:50:25,900 --> 00:50:32,100
Yeah. 
Paul Miller and for his way he 

775
00:50:32,100 --> 00:50:36,700
used color. 
Yeah, he would use some weird 

776
00:50:36,700 --> 00:50:41,700
and wonderful ways of shading. 
You know, his shading of his 

777
00:50:41,700 --> 00:50:45,000
flesh wasn't shaded with brown. 
It was shady with blue. 

778
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,100
It was something that's what it 
was. 

779
00:50:47,300 --> 00:50:55,500
Yeah, it really was. 
He just sit there? 

780
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,200
And every so often you look over
and go, what the hell is that? 

781
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:07,600
And go and I mean there's 
there's some of the Dark Elves 

782
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,800
that he did and the kind of 
chaos stuff that he did. 

783
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,800
Those just got some incredible 
color shifts on it. 

784
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:19,200
He just threw throw everything 
at it but him and torben. 

785
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:24,700
Yeah, until one was Bulldog. 
Yeah, Evans clean, beautiful. 

786
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:30,500
He was the epitome of The heavy 
metal style as it was, then 

787
00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:35,900
everything was crisp and yeah, 
it was you're like and perfect 

788
00:51:36,600 --> 00:51:40,500
and I agree I'd say I like is 
bizarre because torben Summer in

789
00:51:40,500 --> 00:51:43,900
a way he took it to a different 
level and it was very much until

790
00:51:43,900 --> 00:51:46,200
band style. 
But he ended up with he was so 

791
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:48,400
clean. 
Remember he had that really 

792
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:51,200
beautiful. 
Waxy smooth finish em. 

793
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:55,800
Everything just looks so smooth,
but he would literally take 

794
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,900
weeks to paint. 
This is Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

795
00:52:00,900 --> 00:52:02,800
I remember like he was paying my
house. 

796
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,400
I have Cavalry of some sort of 
come up, you know? 

797
00:52:05,900 --> 00:52:08,400
I guess they were like the 
second round of the silver 

798
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,100
helmet or something remember, 
Simon Tiff being like look we 

799
00:52:11,100 --> 00:52:13,400
need the Box done. 
Like he's painted one figure and

800
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,400
he's been on it two weeks. 
I'm not look Simon yeah but it's

801
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,400
going to be the best box cover 
you've ever had. 

802
00:52:18,500 --> 00:52:20,800
Just wait, you know? 
And they were they were they 

803
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,000
were beautiful. 
They they just glowed right. 

804
00:52:24,300 --> 00:52:28,600
There was so good. 
You know why he put put 

805
00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:38,800
dishwashing liquid in his inks. 
Yeah, but I think and you guys, 

806
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:42,400
I think Paul and and tolling 
would just incredible painters. 

807
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:46,700
They had but amazing Styles and 
torment, especially could just 

808
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,100
like you say he could paint 
something and just it would 

809
00:52:49,100 --> 00:52:51,700
just, you know, illuminate 
light. 

810
00:52:51,900 --> 00:52:54,200
I don't know how he did it. 
I think the he told me about 

811
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,100
this technique of using 
dishwashing liquid and these 

812
00:52:57,100 --> 00:53:00,000
inks, and that kind of thing, I 
thought, okay, I'll give them. 

813
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:04,100
He used to yeah he used to use 
layers. 

814
00:53:04,100 --> 00:53:08,100
I mean with it was something 
that that was a common practice 

815
00:53:08,100 --> 00:53:13,400
of layering on these glazes. 
I mean, I John Blanche, John 

816
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:16,500
Blanche first told me about it 
as a technique that the Old 

817
00:53:16,500 --> 00:53:23,300
Masters of Rembrandt Sarah used 
to use, but The tubing just took

818
00:53:23,300 --> 00:53:26,800
it to another level. 
I mean, you know, his figures 

819
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:32,700
would have 20 or 30 layers of 
glazes on them and they just 

820
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:37,000
they just Sean. 
Yeah, credible. 

821
00:53:37,300 --> 00:53:40,000
An amazing guy. 
But like beautiful guy to like 

822
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:46,500
the best local only woman. 
Yeah, yeah, I used to when we 

823
00:53:46,500 --> 00:53:51,800
moved over to the new site, we 
used to go down to the the staff

824
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,900
gym together and it could throw 
a hell of a lot of weight 

825
00:53:55,900 --> 00:54:01,100
around. 
Yeah, lovely bloke. 

826
00:54:01,100 --> 00:54:04,800
Really, really nice guy. 
That was the thing that I mean, 

827
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,500
it's something about the working
environment there. 

828
00:54:09,500 --> 00:54:12,400
There was a lot of really nice 
people. 

829
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:17,500
A lot of, you know, you I made 
friends for life there. 

830
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:24,700
You know people that, you know, 
when I left not Him back in 2001

831
00:54:24,700 --> 00:54:28,900
for various reasons. 
I dropped off the radar just 

832
00:54:29,100 --> 00:54:35,800
dropped out of contact with with
everybody and then sort of like 

833
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,200
about 10 years ago and got 
popped my head back above the 

834
00:54:40,207 --> 00:54:43,100
surface and people that hadn't 
spoken to you for 10 years. 

835
00:54:43,100 --> 00:54:46,800
Like oh yeah, you know, just 
sort of as if no time had gone 

836
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,400
past. 
We we made these friendships 

837
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:52,900
there amongst amongst All these 
people, it was it was a 

838
00:54:52,900 --> 00:54:58,200
fantastic environment to work 
with. 

839
00:54:58,700 --> 00:55:01,400
We all these great creative 
people, you know? 

840
00:55:03,900 --> 00:55:05,300
It wonderful man. 
That's great. 

841
00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:10,600
Now let's talk about things you 
didn't like to paint during your

842
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:12,800
time at the studio. 
Any any particular range of 

843
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,000
models or systems that you just 
hated? 

844
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:17,400
I think f equals one of them 
with it. 

845
00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:30,000
Okay, I know, I know there's 
lots of fans of Man O'War out 

846
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:37,900
there again, I'm sure I never 
actually played a great game but

847
00:55:37,900 --> 00:55:41,200
I really hated painting those 
figures and they they weren't 

848
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,200
in. 
I couldn't get em inspired by 

849
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:47,000
them or epic. 
I like doing the Titans in that.

850
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:52,500
But but yeah, I could never 
really get hugely inspired by 

851
00:55:52,500 --> 00:55:55,400
the micro scale stuff. 
Great fun for, for war, James 

852
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:57,600
painting. 
But seriously, I had to paint 

853
00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:00,700
three. 
I think it was three beIN blades

854
00:56:01,300 --> 00:56:06,300
or Shadow swords or something 
metal ones in camo patterns 

855
00:56:06,300 --> 00:56:10,300
with, you know, using blending 
techniques and stuff like that 

856
00:56:10,300 --> 00:56:14,600
on them. 
And it was just so God, no might

857
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:19,400
know me, it doesn't end. 
Who is the most? 

858
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:20,700
Who was the? 
Who's the biggest character 

859
00:56:20,700 --> 00:56:22,900
amongst the AV middle team? 
Who was the, who was the 

860
00:56:22,900 --> 00:56:25,200
jokester? 
Stuart Thomas. 

861
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,100
Sadly, still you left. 
By the time I got there might. 

862
00:56:37,100 --> 00:56:40,700
So I wasn't I wasn't blessed in 
your presence in the, in the 

863
00:56:40,700 --> 00:56:42,000
student team. 
So there was. 

864
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:52,200
Yeah, you're horribly. 
They've will be lucky then What 

865
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:55,300
about Kim because like, you 
know, see, Kim was like a, he 

866
00:56:55,300 --> 00:56:58,200
was a quiet one, but he was like
a fucking matter, right? 

867
00:56:59,500 --> 00:57:01,700
Wasn't it an alcoholic? 
You tell me who's an alcoholic 

868
00:57:01,700 --> 00:57:03,800
or something? 
Yeah, something going on right 

869
00:57:03,800 --> 00:57:11,600
now. 
Yeah, I think it was full of 

870
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:16,800
full of characters. 
And everybody was taught Mark 

871
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:28,400
Jones up Jones, man. 
Mark Jones had a jar of Scotch 

872
00:57:28,400 --> 00:57:32,300
bonnet pickles on his desk jar 
of pickles. 

873
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,400
The jar and chilies that you had
on his desk. 

874
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:38,400
You remember? 
That will kkkh this jar of 

875
00:57:38,900 --> 00:57:42,800
Scotch bonnet chilies on his 
desk, and he would just dip into

876
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:44,900
them and Munch away. 
I mean, these things are, these 

877
00:57:44,900 --> 00:57:48,600
are these, these kill people, 
and he would just sit there 

878
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:50,400
munching away at them, not being
around to big whoop. 

879
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:56,200
It's funny. 
You should mention mark because 

880
00:57:56,200 --> 00:57:59,200
I mean I think he's like a in 
many ways. 

881
00:58:01,500 --> 00:58:05,200
Kind of like an underrated 
member of the team because he 

882
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:08,800
became he became you know he 
ended up being a very proficient

883
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:14,500
painter but he had this really 
kind of, I don't mean this in a 

884
00:58:14,508 --> 00:58:17,300
bad way but he had this quite 
dull style where it was just, 

885
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,600
you know, he was doing what it 
meant to do, you know, very 

886
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:25,200
naturalistic re-clean, right? 
Naturalistic photograph great, 

887
00:58:25,300 --> 00:58:26,700
but it was neither here or 
there. 

888
00:58:26,700 --> 00:58:30,000
It wasn't especially towards the
end of the period when we were 

889
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:33,400
all doing what we do. 
It was a time when everyone was 

890
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:35,100
starting to like, push 
boundaries a bit. 

891
00:58:35,100 --> 00:58:36,900
We're like, oh, we're going to 
be back on the coast and we're 

892
00:58:36,900 --> 00:58:39,800
going to put, Mark just sort of 
stayed the course and this big 

893
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:44,400
neat entirely, but you know what
effect is still? 

894
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:47,000
There is nothing like, you know,
marks the one that lasted the 

895
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,900
longest. 
I believe, he, I believe he is. 

896
00:58:49,900 --> 00:58:52,000
Yeah. 
I mean, he moved over onto the 

897
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,300
scenery so I, yeah, quite yeah. 
Let me know. 

898
00:58:56,700 --> 00:59:05,000
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. but yeah, 
there was definitely a lot of a 

899
00:59:05,008 --> 00:59:12,200
lot of characters some folks 
that lat All right, guys, what's

900
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:15,600
let's get into some questions 
from our disco team because they

901
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:17,800
were very excited. 
And this is the biggest response

902
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,300
of ever had, to any guests 
coming onto the show. 

903
00:59:20,300 --> 00:59:22,200
So that's, that's really 
wonderful. 

904
00:59:23,100 --> 00:59:31,200
And so that's been great. 
So, Arch Stanton asks, what 

905
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:35,200
brushes do you guys use? 
I don't know whether he means, 

906
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,100
like back in the day, or now, or
whatever. 

907
00:59:37,100 --> 00:59:38,800
But, back in the day was 
Workshop. 

908
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:42,200
In the studio, we would have 
been Workshop there freak, you 

909
00:59:42,207 --> 00:59:47,900
know, Mike, this is that's true.
This is actually, this is quite 

910
00:59:47,900 --> 00:59:50,600
good point because this is 
something that comes up on the 

911
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,800
interwebs, quite a lot, is you 
see these people who go, all the

912
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:55,400
heavy metal team, they never 
even use. 

913
00:59:55,400 --> 01:00:01,800
Citadel payments we did. 
Yeah, we absolutely do one they 

914
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:05,100
were free. 
We could get as we, we could get

915
01:00:05,100 --> 01:00:07,400
as much as much as we could 
drink. 

916
01:00:08,400 --> 01:00:13,300
To there wasn't really anything 
else around at the time in the 

917
01:00:13,300 --> 01:00:15,900
fifth that was usable for for 
painting figures. 

918
01:00:15,900 --> 01:00:18,700
The only thing that we did do 
was things like Winsor & Newton 

919
01:00:18,700 --> 01:00:28,500
inks which we turned into the 
increase, the Vibrance here, the

920
01:00:28,500 --> 01:00:31,300
colors, or for glazes, and stuff
like that. 

921
01:00:32,100 --> 01:00:35,400
And it was the same with brushes
we used Citadel Devon, Windsor 

922
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:39,400
Newton, serious Evans, and Look 
back, you know. 

923
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:43,400
Yeah. 
That's what I use. 

924
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:44,900
All the time. 
Now, sit with the engine 

925
01:00:44,900 --> 01:00:49,400
Newtons, I've tried others, and 
I know there's, there's people 

926
01:00:49,500 --> 01:00:52,100
all over the place will go. 
Oh, they're not what they used 

927
01:00:52,100 --> 01:00:54,500
to be, but I've never had a bad 
one. 

928
01:00:54,900 --> 01:00:58,200
In 30 years of painting figures.
I've never had a bad one. 

929
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:00,300
Don't see why that should 
change. 

930
01:01:00,700 --> 01:01:05,000
Yep, that's good, man. 
Yeah, princeps Thomas's. 

931
01:01:05,500 --> 01:01:08,900
What's your favorite cheese? 
Great. 

932
01:01:10,500 --> 01:01:15,900
Bz U sophisticated w53 or 
Somerset break. 

933
01:01:16,900 --> 01:01:21,800
Fuck, I never had Somerset Brie 
mate, I'll give it a go it's 

934
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:23,900
lovely. 
It's a bit smoother than French 

935
01:01:23,900 --> 01:01:27,000
Brie but I'm a cheddar man. 
I'm a Somerset lad. 

936
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,300
I'm Somerset loud, born and bred
so it's got to be cheddar. 

937
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:35,800
Okay, well I stay Stanton is 
back again. 

938
01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:38,300
What do you think of the older 
more vibrant Styles? 

939
01:01:38,300 --> 01:01:41,200
Opposed the Grim darks star 
properly? 

940
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:54,000
Now, Come on. 
To understand because it's like,

941
01:01:54,000 --> 01:02:00,000
well, you know, originally there
was this dark gray even though 

942
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,200
brown-style. 
Then there was the bright style,

943
01:02:02,200 --> 01:02:03,700
then there was like something 
else. 

944
01:02:04,100 --> 01:02:07,200
And now actually I think every 
met the got the painting and 

945
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:09,300
this is something we've not 
talked about yet, but the 

946
01:02:09,300 --> 01:02:12,100
reality is, heavy metal now is 
fucking amazing. 

947
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:16,300
Okay, the stuff those guys do is
just incredible and it's 

948
01:02:16,300 --> 01:02:19,100
actually, you know, then you 
know, they're not doing like 

949
01:02:19,100 --> 01:02:21,400
bright red anymore. 
They didn't this really cool 

950
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:23,800
realistic. 
Let's games with another level 

951
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:27,300
of painting, which is beyond me 
likes, can't even comprehend how

952
01:02:27,300 --> 01:02:31,100
they do it. 
So I'm kind of like their head 

953
01:02:31,100 --> 01:02:33,900
and shoulders above us. 
Yeah. 

954
01:02:33,900 --> 01:02:35,700
Yeah. 
It's like you know, how, how are

955
01:02:35,700 --> 01:02:37,100
they doing it? 
And that's really don't even 

956
01:02:37,100 --> 01:02:38,400
know. 
But of course, now we're old, 

957
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:41,000
our eyes don't even work 
properly but I think they it's 

958
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:42,500
gone beyond that. 
Grimdark thing for me. 

959
01:02:42,500 --> 01:02:46,000
Now when I look online and stuff
on Facebook, whatever grimdark 

960
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:49,300
has become almost. 
That blanket is to thing, where,

961
01:02:49,300 --> 01:02:54,500
guys are trying to emulate What 
drum Bunch used to do, and I 

962
01:02:54,508 --> 01:02:57,000
just found this question little 
hard to answer because of kind 

963
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,100
of its kind of move beyond that 
has on it. 

964
01:02:59,100 --> 01:03:03,300
Like the Mainstay of the 
mainstream style, now is 

965
01:03:03,300 --> 01:03:06,500
actually a really great quite 
realistic style. 

966
01:03:07,100 --> 01:03:10,500
You may not be Grim dark but 
brimmed up was grimdark even 

967
01:03:10,500 --> 01:03:11,600
ever a thing. 
You know. 

968
01:03:11,900 --> 01:03:19,400
Look that's just it. 
I mean there never was a grim 

969
01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:21,800
dark period with with every 
metal. 

970
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:25,200
I mean, the Locust is to comes 
to, is that the late 90s early 

971
01:03:25,200 --> 01:03:31,600
2000s, where everything was 
really a lot more naturalistic 

972
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:39,800
this, the, the new grimdark like
like Dave says, that comes a lot

973
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:44,300
from The blanche's Who stuff, 
which is in itself, a more 

974
01:03:44,900 --> 01:03:50,700
recent development of John's 
style because, you know, if you 

975
01:03:50,700 --> 01:03:55,200
look at, if you look back at 
John Black, To stuff in the late

976
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:57,700
80s. 
Early 90s, you know, he was he 

977
01:03:57,700 --> 01:04:03,800
was doing clean strong colors, 
you know, he there was a lot of 

978
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:09,100
stuff of his that was was sort 
of grim, dark kind of thing, but

979
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:19,500
The his style has moved on into 
this really, manky really heavy 

980
01:04:19,500 --> 01:04:23,300
heavily shaded style, and the, 
the sort of modern. 

981
01:04:23,300 --> 01:04:27,500
Grimdark aesthetic has sort of 
taken that and run with it. 

982
01:04:27,500 --> 01:04:30,300
And there's some amazing stuff 
being the thing that output 

983
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:35,000
being done in that style, but 
equally there's some amazing 

984
01:04:35,000 --> 01:04:42,300
stuff being done in the sort of 
Heavy metal style and the more 

985
01:04:42,300 --> 01:04:47,000
sort of how do you describe them
off a sort of fantasy art style 

986
01:04:48,500 --> 01:04:53,200
with the the really heavily 
airbrushed stuff that's the sort

987
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:57,800
of a spinoff from the larger 
scale kits and all that sort of 

988
01:04:57,800 --> 01:05:00,300
thing. 
You know, there's there's lots 

989
01:05:00,300 --> 01:05:03,100
of different styles around at 
the moment these days and they 

990
01:05:03,100 --> 01:05:05,900
will, you know, there's been is 
amazing stuff being done in all 

991
01:05:05,900 --> 01:05:11,000
of them I think actually Stuart 
that's like so So important and 

992
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:14,700
such a great thing that back 
when we were there and again, it

993
01:05:14,700 --> 01:05:18,100
was prior to the internet, all 
the rest of it in a lot of ways.

994
01:05:18,100 --> 01:05:24,400
It was a very sort of clothes 
and Limited hobby and a very in 

995
01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:27,700
terms of fingerprinting, quite 
Limited in terms of expression. 

996
01:05:28,100 --> 01:05:31,500
Where's now like, literally, you
know, you can do whatever that. 

997
01:05:31,500 --> 01:05:33,600
There's so many outlets, but, 
you know, you can go in any 

998
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:36,500
direction you want. 
There's so many different places

999
01:05:36,500 --> 01:05:39,100
you can go for inspiration. 
There's people doing all kinds. 

1000
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:41,300
Kinds of different stuff in 
terms of Style and what they 

1001
01:05:41,300 --> 01:05:44,100
used, you know, to paint and all
the rest of it means it's 

1002
01:05:44,100 --> 01:05:47,000
amazing now. 
But when I look at what is out 

1003
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:50,500
there, now based on what we had 
discussed, oh my God, it must be

1004
01:05:50,500 --> 01:05:53,000
awesome, right? 
You know to be you, you imagine 

1005
01:05:53,000 --> 01:05:56,900
being somewhat in your teens all
over again and getting into it 

1006
01:05:56,900 --> 01:05:57,700
now. 
Yes. 

1007
01:05:58,500 --> 01:05:59,700
Yeah. 
It's amazing. 

1008
01:05:59,700 --> 01:06:05,600
Right? 
Yeah, everything is so far 

1009
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:09,500
Advanced from from when we were 
not just when we were getting 

1010
01:06:09,500 --> 01:06:13,400
into it as as teenagers. 
But when we were involved in it 

1011
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:18,800
as Adams, you know, the quality 
of the painter to improve the 

1012
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,200
quality of this, the Miniatures 
has improved. 

1013
01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:27,500
The, I mean, the plastic figures
that are coming out these days 

1014
01:06:27,500 --> 01:06:30,500
as a head and shoulders over 
anything. 

1015
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:34,800
In that we could have dreamed of
back in the day, you know, and 

1016
01:06:35,200 --> 01:06:40,700
everything has gone up a level 
many, many levels and it's 

1017
01:06:40,700 --> 01:06:42,800
incredible to see what's out 
there. 

1018
01:06:43,100 --> 01:06:49,500
You know, it's it's like trying 
to imagine what what it must be 

1019
01:06:49,500 --> 01:06:52,300
like. 
Now as a teenager growing up 

1020
01:06:52,300 --> 01:06:57,900
with the internet when you know 
we grew up before anything I've 

1021
01:06:57,900 --> 01:06:59,600
had came along. 
Yeah. 

1022
01:07:00,700 --> 01:07:05,700
It's just so far removed from 
from our way of thinking and and

1023
01:07:05,700 --> 01:07:10,400
that the hobby that the hobby, 
as it is, now is so far. 

1024
01:07:11,600 --> 01:07:16,200
Away from what it was when we 
were kicking around in it. 

1025
01:07:16,900 --> 01:07:25,000
Yeah, I mean, so that point I 
mean, What is your sort of 

1026
01:07:25,000 --> 01:07:28,900
Journey in terms of either 
dropping out or not dropping out

1027
01:07:28,900 --> 01:07:30,600
and coming back into the hobby, 
or whatever? 

1028
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:34,400
Because, I mean, personally, I 
went through traffic when. 

1029
01:07:34,400 --> 01:07:37,000
But, you know, I basically 
dropped out of the hobby I 

1030
01:07:37,008 --> 01:07:41,400
stopped paying attention and it 
was probably about four or five 

1031
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:46,500
years ago maybe four that I 
started seeing, you know, online

1032
01:07:46,500 --> 01:07:49,300
or well Facebook, whatever 
Instagram like the new 

1033
01:07:49,300 --> 01:07:51,200
Miniatures. 
And I was just like, what the 

1034
01:07:51,200 --> 01:07:54,900
fuck? 
That's a miniature, you know, 

1035
01:07:54,900 --> 01:07:57,800
I'm trying to think of examples.
It is like a it was like a dark 

1036
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:00,500
elf character where it's like, 
you know, she's got the snake 

1037
01:08:00,500 --> 01:08:03,100
body and blah, blah blah. 
What is that? 

1038
01:08:03,100 --> 01:08:07,400
Like that's a minute they've 
done that and really I just I 

1039
01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:11,600
have not been looking so I 
didn't I was unaware of the 

1040
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:15,600
progression in quality and what 
they could literally do in terms

1041
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:17,100
of, you know, Plastics and 
restaurant. 

1042
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:21,600
And I was just like, oh my God. 
And then, you know, and even the

1043
01:08:21,700 --> 01:08:25,100
primary Marines, I was totally 
unaware, then one day on 

1044
01:08:25,100 --> 01:08:26,600
Instagram, I saw like a promise 
ring. 

1045
01:08:26,600 --> 01:08:28,899
I saw someone convert Hill 
Academy pads, that's cool. 

1046
01:08:28,899 --> 01:08:35,700
Convert. 
I looked on the side, you know, 

1047
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:44,500
after all those years, all of a 
sudden, I found myself just like

1048
01:08:44,500 --> 01:08:47,399
you know, on the site every day 
like oh I want to buy that I 

1049
01:08:47,399 --> 01:08:49,500
want to like this, but what am I
doing? 

1050
01:08:49,899 --> 01:08:56,700
I sold over 20 years ago. 
How was that for used to it? 

1051
01:08:56,700 --> 01:08:58,200
Did you uh did you ever drop 
out? 

1052
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:04,100
Or you just call for me in there
or no, I do pretty much to say 

1053
01:09:04,100 --> 01:09:10,200
why I dropped out around when I 
finally left Games Workshop 

1054
01:09:10,200 --> 01:09:15,700
around, think it was Late 2000, 
early 2001. 

1055
01:09:18,300 --> 01:09:21,500
And yeah, I'd go. 
I'd lost her shit going on 

1056
01:09:21,500 --> 01:09:23,800
personal shit going on. 
So I dropped out of it 

1057
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:31,100
completely and I tried a couple 
of failed attempts to to get 

1058
01:09:31,100 --> 01:09:37,200
back into it on a professional 
level and that didn't didn't 

1059
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:40,899
work out at all. 
Well, so yeah, I dropped out of 

1060
01:09:40,899 --> 01:09:45,800
it until about I think it was 
things about 2009 2010. 

1061
01:09:46,100 --> 01:09:51,800
One of the I think it was the 
one of the Warhammer box, sets 

1062
01:09:51,800 --> 01:10:01,700
the dwarfs and Goblins army 
bought 6th edition box 6 Edition

1063
01:10:01,700 --> 01:10:07,300
because yeah, that will sculpt I
saw that and I was saying was 

1064
01:10:07,300 --> 01:10:11,200
you that I was looking at the 
figures and it was just the the 

1065
01:10:11,400 --> 01:10:14,800
just the rank-and-file night. 
God being single single piece. 

1066
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:20,400
And they were just, I don't, I 
thought back to the, the Third 

1067
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:24,600
Edition ones with a Spears at 
like that and I thought, my God,

1068
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:29,100
this is so far removed from 
then, and these are just the 

1069
01:10:29,100 --> 01:10:31,300
rank-and-file basic figures and 
it. 

1070
01:10:31,500 --> 01:10:33,800
Yeah, from yeah. 
I just got sucked straight back 

1071
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:35,400
into it. 
It didn't take long. 

1072
01:10:38,700 --> 01:10:41,200
Yeah, I mean, I seen it. 
I'm now I'm sitting here 

1073
01:10:41,200 --> 01:10:48,700
surrounded by boxes of crap. 
It happens when it happens. 

1074
01:10:48,700 --> 01:10:52,800
Well, I wish you'd catch myself.
Free was supposed to clear that 

1075
01:10:52,900 --> 01:10:56,900
the Warhammer 40K indomita 
saying, I ended up like, paying 

1076
01:10:56,900 --> 01:10:58,400
through the nose on eBay for 
that? 

1077
01:10:58,900 --> 01:11:02,500
No matter what am I doing? 
Like how did I end up going back

1078
01:11:02,500 --> 01:11:04,200
down? 
This fucking Rabbit Hole here. 

1079
01:11:07,900 --> 01:11:11,100
Oh yeah, definitely. 
And these days I'm playing games

1080
01:11:11,100 --> 01:11:15,100
with guys. 
I've every couple of weeks. 

1081
01:11:15,100 --> 01:11:17,100
I mean, I was some guys, we do 
some painting together. 

1082
01:11:17,200 --> 01:11:19,400
Other once a week I go and play 
D&D. 

1083
01:11:20,000 --> 01:11:23,700
And yeah I've been I've been 
such right down the rabbit hole 

1084
01:11:24,000 --> 01:11:26,900
because it's just little Tufts 
of Tufts of hair. 

1085
01:11:26,900 --> 01:11:29,900
Sticking out around the rabbit 
hole with or I was pulled down 

1086
01:11:29,900 --> 01:11:32,700
here. 
It's wonderful man. 

1087
01:11:32,700 --> 01:11:34,300
That's great. 
Yeah, no, I know Dave's trying 

1088
01:11:34,300 --> 01:11:36,200
to get back into gaming like 
he's still historical stuff. 

1089
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:39,000
He's trying to get me into Saga 
now. 

1090
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:50,300
So many times as you can. 
Yeah, but the big thing in the 

1091
01:11:50,300 --> 01:11:56,900
100, of course, go ahead. 
So on the shelf behind me here, 

1092
01:11:56,900 --> 01:12:03,000
you see that? 
Yes, that's my first ever full 

1093
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:08,700
40K Army since Rogue Trader. 
Since my, my Elder Army and 

1094
01:12:16,500 --> 01:12:18,900
that's very Green from where I'm
sitting here Stuart. 

1095
01:12:18,900 --> 01:12:22,500
So I don't know how much of its,
yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1096
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:26,400
It'll be like plague Marines or 
something. 

1097
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:30,200
Yeah, Google it is painted, some
of it. 

1098
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:39,300
It'll have to see it. 
There's a very is there is see. 

1099
01:12:40,300 --> 01:12:43,200
See some of it is painted a 
painting. 

1100
01:12:44,100 --> 01:12:47,000
Well done. 
Good on you guys. 

1101
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:52,700
Do you guys have to wrap up 
again for another break if you 

1102
01:12:52,700 --> 01:12:59,200
want to continue? 
Let's, let's take a quick break 

1103
01:12:59,400 --> 01:13:03,500
and let's come back for the 
final episode or final part of 

1104
01:13:03,500 --> 01:13:05,100
our wonderful discussion this 
evening. 

1105
01:13:06,300 --> 01:13:07,800
Oh, catch you again after this 
break? 

1106
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:14,500
All right. 
A bit of a tea break again. 

1107
01:13:14,500 --> 01:13:17,000
So we're back. 
So guys, where did we leave off?

1108
01:13:17,500 --> 01:13:20,800
Are we talking about Dave? 
Let's do it. 

1109
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:28,300
Totally remember being away from
and getting back into the hobby 

1110
01:13:28,300 --> 01:13:29,900
I think. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1111
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:32,500
Yeah. 
I mean you want to fight you got

1112
01:13:32,500 --> 01:13:36,700
any more questions from the from
the Hat though actually in one 

1113
01:13:36,700 --> 01:13:38,300
of the guys asked, it was a good
question. 

1114
01:13:38,300 --> 01:13:40,900
So I think we've answered some 
of them during a conversation 

1115
01:13:40,900 --> 01:13:43,700
this evening but The guy said, 
what was the? 

1116
01:13:43,700 --> 01:13:45,000
What was the best project you 
worked? 

1117
01:13:45,000 --> 01:13:49,100
As an Army in the studio, it was
it looking at whether it be 40K,

1118
01:13:49,100 --> 01:13:50,500
fantasy epic, or whatever or 
not. 

1119
01:13:50,500 --> 01:13:52,200
Epic not Manowar. 
I won't torture. 

1120
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:55,500
You there Stewart here which I'm
going to do really well you're 

1121
01:13:55,500 --> 01:13:57,200
really pleased. 
I think maybe Dave really like 

1122
01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:01,200
the britannians from memory was 
a High Elves biology. 

1123
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:02,100
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1124
01:14:04,700 --> 01:14:20,900
Hmm. 
Armies, everybody pitched in a 

1125
01:14:20,907 --> 01:14:22,100
little bit here and a little 
bit. 

1126
01:14:22,100 --> 01:14:25,500
There. 
The catch hands were mostly my 

1127
01:14:25,500 --> 01:14:26,800
thing. 
Hmm. 

1128
01:14:26,800 --> 01:14:30,200
Really quite like quick real 
others, like doing them because 

1129
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:33,400
that was that was from the 
ground up kind of thing. 

1130
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:39,200
And I think it's always good fun
to be able to to Go right. 

1131
01:14:39,200 --> 01:14:43,100
From the, from the beginning on 
something like that. 

1132
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:48,900
I liked working on the and the, 
this fourth edition Undead know.

1133
01:14:48,900 --> 01:14:50,700
I was quite profound. 
Although these days, I wouldn't 

1134
01:14:50,700 --> 01:14:54,200
do them in those sort colors. 
The colors made the colors 

1135
01:14:54,200 --> 01:14:55,800
Bryant. 
Yeah, I think that really makes 

1136
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:57,400
that Army. 
I think if it had any other way,

1137
01:14:57,400 --> 01:15:06,800
it would it would look as good 
as I like, it still makes a 

1138
01:15:06,800 --> 01:15:10,700
really good point. 
They're actually a lot of, you 

1139
01:15:10,700 --> 01:15:13,200
know, especially boom. 
When we were there, a lot of 

1140
01:15:13,300 --> 01:15:17,800
Miniatures and a lot of ranges, 
it was still derivative, you 

1141
01:15:17,800 --> 01:15:20,000
know, you like, okay, we doing a
new one book. 

1142
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,400
We're doing a new range but 
actually we can remember the 

1143
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:26,400
previous set of figures and 
previously, the paint jobs and 

1144
01:15:26,400 --> 01:15:29,700
you have very much informed by 
that and and rightly. 

1145
01:15:29,700 --> 01:15:33,500
So, you know, and I love you, I 
guess wants to emulate. 

1146
01:15:34,100 --> 01:15:36,400
But for example, like the cat a 
chance when I came along that 

1147
01:15:36,400 --> 01:15:38,800
was brand new. 
When Stewart's given the cutter 

1148
01:15:38,800 --> 01:15:40,500
Jones. 
Hope that didn't exist. 

1149
01:15:40,500 --> 01:15:41,600
No one else has ever painted 
them. 

1150
01:15:41,600 --> 01:15:44,100
There's nothing to look back on.
There's no, that's right. 

1151
01:15:44,100 --> 01:15:48,600
There's nothing to inform, so 
that that's truly interesting 

1152
01:15:48,600 --> 01:15:50,900
when and of course, nowadays, 
mr. 

1153
01:15:50,900 --> 01:15:54,100
Comes out all the time, but back
then, it was pretty rare that 

1154
01:15:54,100 --> 01:15:56,100
they would be like something 
brand-new, you know? 

1155
01:15:56,700 --> 01:15:58,800
And I remember. 
Stewart you do you remember? 

1156
01:15:58,800 --> 01:16:02,200
You were like really like I want
this like really dirty skin 

1157
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:04,500
tones and I want them to look 
like they're in the jungle and 

1158
01:16:04,500 --> 01:16:08,300
yeah and at that time that kind 
of thinking Everyone's just so 

1159
01:16:08,300 --> 01:16:09,800
wrong. 
How's that going to work? 

1160
01:16:11,100 --> 01:16:12,300
Hmm you did it. 
Yeah. 

1161
01:16:12,300 --> 01:16:14,500
How are you going to make them 
look bright and stand out on the

1162
01:16:14,508 --> 01:16:15,900
box cover? 
Yeah, yeah. 

1163
01:16:16,700 --> 01:16:19,300
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1164
01:16:19,300 --> 01:16:24,900
It's I mean okay comparing it to
what I understand of the heavy 

1165
01:16:24,900 --> 01:16:27,900
metal team now. 
I mean they're working two or 

1166
01:16:27,900 --> 01:16:33,000
three years in advance on 
projects and they have type. 

1167
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:36,000
I was a couple of years ago. 
I was at War Hammer Fest 

1168
01:16:37,300 --> 01:16:45,000
watching one of the Q&A sessions
and they they get a project, you

1169
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:49,700
know. 
The new High Elves, whatever 

1170
01:16:49,700 --> 01:16:53,500
they're called, and they start a
project and they sit down and 

1171
01:16:53,500 --> 01:16:56,500
they have all the Miniatures 
there and they all sit down and 

1172
01:16:56,508 --> 01:16:58,000
work out who's going to paint 
work. 

1173
01:16:58,000 --> 01:17:04,400
And and you know what color 
schemes and they you know, each 

1174
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:06,600
treated like an individual 
project. 

1175
01:17:06,700 --> 01:17:11,600
We got take that by tomorrow 
cause it's for next. 

1176
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:14,100
Month's white dwarf. 
Yeah. 

1177
01:17:17,100 --> 01:17:24,100
Talisman came out with them. 
Little Wayne England postage 

1178
01:17:24,100 --> 01:17:27,400
stamp-sized illustrations on all
the cards because the figures 

1179
01:17:27,400 --> 01:17:31,200
didn't exist. 
Well the figures that are on the

1180
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:37,800
back of the box are gray. 
Sprayed metal figures because we

1181
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:43,100
didn't have the Plastics in time
for Repro in the artwork. 

1182
01:17:43,200 --> 01:17:46,100
So what is quicker for Wayne to 
do some pictures? 

1183
01:17:46,700 --> 01:17:49,200
Some drawings that they could 
photograph a stick in place, 

1184
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:51,700
then it, you know, we just 
didn't have the Miniatures in 

1185
01:17:51,700 --> 01:17:54,300
time these days, they're two or 
three years ahead of it and they

1186
01:17:54,300 --> 01:18:00,000
can plan things which we we 
would see about pants, always? 

1187
01:18:00,000 --> 01:18:05,400
Yeah. 
Let's We were lucky, if we got 

1188
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:07,900
Miniatures 2 months ahead of 
release. 

1189
01:18:09,300 --> 01:18:14,700
Yeah. 
Okay. 

1190
01:18:14,700 --> 01:18:17,300
Very good insight to you this. 
Yeah, a lot of people wouldn't 

1191
01:18:17,300 --> 01:18:20,400
know that, you know what I mean?
That have absolutely no idea and

1192
01:18:20,400 --> 01:18:23,400
this is kind of a nice little 
doorway into the workings of the

1193
01:18:23,407 --> 01:18:27,200
studio back in those days and 
maybe in contrast to what people

1194
01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:30,100
are doing now. 
I wonder how what the pay levels

1195
01:18:30,100 --> 01:18:32,300
like for painters in that 
nowadays, whether that's going 

1196
01:18:32,300 --> 01:18:37,000
up a lot, you know, because it's
pretty bad back then wasn't I 

1197
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:40,100
mean I was yeah, I totally get 
paper than we did. 

1198
01:18:40,200 --> 01:18:45,300
Yeah. 
Portable painter was getting 

1199
01:18:45,300 --> 01:18:49,600
paid less than I was. 
I entered in from a store level 

1200
01:18:50,500 --> 01:18:53,400
when I joined the studio so they
said they'll pay me the same 

1201
01:18:53,500 --> 01:18:57,300
same amount of money, same wages
as I was during this in the 

1202
01:18:57,300 --> 01:18:59,400
store. 
Torben was getting paid less 

1203
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:02,500
than me and the poor bugger 
didn't even have a bed to sleep 

1204
01:19:02,500 --> 01:19:03,400
on. 
I think I'll sleep on the 

1205
01:19:03,407 --> 01:19:04,800
mattress on the floor or 
something like that. 

1206
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:14,100
I think Illuminating like the 
fact that you know, Yeah. 

1207
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:20,500
Surely a studio position is 
slightly elevated beyond the 

1208
01:19:20,500 --> 01:19:22,700
like a, you know, a retail? 
Yeah. 

1209
01:19:22,900 --> 01:19:25,200
Yeah. 
Basically if you think so, you 

1210
01:19:25,200 --> 01:19:26,300
think so? 
You think so? 

1211
01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:39,200
What kind of people who work 
there still but even top I said,

1212
01:19:40,400 --> 01:19:46,800
yeah, it's not like correct. 
It was the wages for figure 

1213
01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:54,700
painters, I don't think we, I 
mean, for me, it was my first 

1214
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:58,600
proper job, you know, I went to 
college left College joined 

1215
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:02,700
Games Workshop at 19, but even 
then, even then I knew that the 

1216
01:20:02,700 --> 01:20:06,000
wages of crap. 
Yeah. 

1217
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:10,300
You know, wasn't getting much 
more than I'd been getting for 

1218
01:20:10,300 --> 01:20:12,800
stacking shelves in a 
supermarket while I was 

1219
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:15,200
financing the way through 
college, you know. 

1220
01:20:15,800 --> 01:20:22,500
So yeah I hope I hope these days
they get paid better because we 

1221
01:20:22,500 --> 01:20:24,500
didn't do it for the money. 
We did it for the love of the 

1222
01:20:24,500 --> 01:20:29,700
Hobby and and stuff which is 
slightly exploiting wasn't it 

1223
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:32,700
and the free white dwarf every 
month. 

1224
01:20:32,900 --> 01:20:38,300
Yeah I mean we love but we did 
it right? 

1225
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:41,100
And yeah there was a reason we 
did loved it. 

1226
01:20:41,100 --> 01:20:45,600
It was awesome. 
I mean it was because it was go 

1227
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:48,300
toward thank you. 
No no I was gonna say like yeah,

1228
01:20:48,900 --> 01:20:52,800
20 years ago, if you'd asked me 
I would have probably still had 

1229
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:56,200
enough file and bitter in me 
like give you a completely 

1230
01:20:56,200 --> 01:20:58,500
different run. 
Well, it looking back. 

1231
01:20:58,500 --> 01:21:01,900
It's like, come on it. 
What an awesome experience. 

1232
01:21:01,900 --> 01:21:05,400
It was a complete blast. 
We acted like complete lunatics 

1233
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:11,900
and got away with it, you know 
how, no employer on Earth, which

1234
01:21:12,300 --> 01:21:24,300
let people act. 
Like we actually, I was drunk 

1235
01:21:26,300 --> 01:21:32,400
constantly, even while I was at 
work, we go to the go to the 

1236
01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:34,800
park. 
We go to the trip to Jerusalem, 

1237
01:21:36,200 --> 01:21:40,700
1:00 for a pint at lunch, and 
have four pints and Swagger back

1238
01:21:40,700 --> 01:21:45,800
to the studio. 
Barely able to think, Jason, we 

1239
01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:48,200
all get we were, we were. 
Yeah. 

1240
01:21:48,200 --> 01:21:51,100
It was a royal. 
I mean, yes, the wages were 

1241
01:21:51,108 --> 01:21:53,400
shit. 
Yes, occasionally, the 

1242
01:21:53,400 --> 01:22:00,900
management were heavy-handed. 
But most of the time, it was 

1243
01:22:02,100 --> 01:22:05,300
good fun. 
The whole thing that I can't 

1244
01:22:05,300 --> 01:22:08,600
look back on it as anything, 
anything of a bad experience. 

1245
01:22:08,900 --> 01:22:10,000
Yeah, that's good. 
That's right. 

1246
01:22:11,100 --> 01:22:16,400
It was a rock and rolling in its
way, but I think we wanted it to

1247
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:21,300
be that, especially that those 
of us, who would come up with 

1248
01:22:21,900 --> 01:22:25,000
easily growing up with like, you
know, John John Blanche being, 

1249
01:22:25,100 --> 01:22:28,300
you know, The kind of idle or 
whatever. 

1250
01:22:28,500 --> 01:22:31,800
That's what we wanted. 
We thought that's what we were 

1251
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:33,600
part of. 
That's what we want to admit me.

1252
01:22:33,600 --> 01:22:38,400
Oh, my, I'm sure Stewart. 
Remember this, but my memory is 

1253
01:22:38,400 --> 01:22:40,600
doing is like games, Danger, on 
blocks. 

1254
01:22:40,600 --> 01:22:42,900
Let's try going around a golden,
demon games. 

1255
01:22:42,900 --> 01:22:45,800
They would like a bottle of Jack
Daniels neat and okay, he was 

1256
01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:49,500
shit-faced but we grew up with 
that like, John Blanche was 

1257
01:22:49,500 --> 01:22:52,500
like, literally secondary only 
to Axl Rose, you know, it's 

1258
01:22:52,500 --> 01:22:58,000
like, you know, We thought 
that's what we were. 

1259
01:22:58,200 --> 01:22:59,700
Grabbing heard by Games 
Workshop. 

1260
01:22:59,700 --> 01:23:01,500
Now I get to be like I'm 
lunching. 

1261
01:23:02,400 --> 01:23:05,200
So that's where you kind of felt
you were entering into course 

1262
01:23:05,200 --> 01:23:07,600
you get a rude awakening. 
Once you realize it's not quite 

1263
01:23:07,600 --> 01:23:13,900
how it's going to work, but I 
mean you know we did have like 

1264
01:23:13,900 --> 01:23:18,100
so you spent six weeks painting 
the golden great demon while you

1265
01:23:18,100 --> 01:23:20,800
were sat reading reading The 
Hobbit. 

1266
01:23:21,000 --> 01:23:25,600
We we got away with so much. 
Yeah. 

1267
01:23:25,600 --> 01:23:27,300
Okay. 
So Sometime, we had to knuckle 

1268
01:23:27,300 --> 01:23:28,900
down and actually get some work 
done. 

1269
01:23:29,500 --> 01:23:37,400
But to say it was, it was a lot 
of fun and we met awesome people

1270
01:23:37,400 --> 01:23:40,600
as well, but yeah, amount of 
people that came to that studio 

1271
01:23:41,800 --> 01:23:44,300
here. 
He can't even remember the names

1272
01:23:44,300 --> 01:23:47,600
now, right? 
But so many especially back, 

1273
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:50,600
then when we were lucky that, 
that was a boom time, when 

1274
01:23:50,600 --> 01:23:52,900
remembered the company was 
opening all these different 

1275
01:23:53,900 --> 01:23:57,400
offices in various countries. 
They having, you know, these new

1276
01:23:57,400 --> 01:23:58,900
Guys from Italy and he goes from
lower. 

1277
01:23:59,500 --> 01:24:03,500
So we've been meeting all these 
like new people that we're going

1278
01:24:03,500 --> 01:24:06,300
to spearhead the Hobby and all 
these new markets. 

1279
01:24:06,300 --> 01:24:10,200
And it was a really interesting 
time where, you know, a lot of 

1280
01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:12,900
really like fired up and 
exciting people. 

1281
01:24:13,900 --> 01:24:19,300
Yeah, yeah. 
And I mean, There was lots of 

1282
01:24:19,300 --> 01:24:23,400
stuff to get involved with as 
well because you know, a new 

1283
01:24:23,400 --> 01:24:27,700
game was being developed. 
So we'd all we'd all get 

1284
01:24:27,700 --> 01:24:30,300
involved with the play play 
testing of it, you know, 

1285
01:24:30,300 --> 01:24:32,500
everybody in the studio had a 
blood Bowl team. 

1286
01:24:32,700 --> 01:24:36,400
Everybody in the studio, had a 
girl, come Orchid gang or a 

1287
01:24:37,200 --> 01:24:43,000
necromancer gang. 
You know I lived with Mark Jones

1288
01:24:45,700 --> 01:24:51,600
Cal Brown, who was on the 
Production side of things at the

1289
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:53,600
time. 
And we had a, we had a little 

1290
01:24:54,000 --> 01:24:57,400
Little Neck cream under campaign
going, in our living room, you 

1291
01:24:57,400 --> 01:24:59,000
know what happened? 
What happened? 

1292
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:07,900
What's he doing? 
Carl is running his own games 

1293
01:25:07,900 --> 01:25:09,400
company. 
I believe. 

1294
01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:17,100
Oh wow. 
I can't remember off the top of 

1295
01:25:17,108 --> 01:25:20,000
my head but I'll look, I'll dig 
out a link and send it to you. 

1296
01:25:20,008 --> 01:25:22,800
He's, yeah, he's doing all 
right. 

1297
01:25:23,900 --> 01:25:27,200
Yeah, I mean, you know, all 
these people that that we got to

1298
01:25:27,200 --> 01:25:31,100
know over the years. 
And it was it yeah it was a 

1299
01:25:32,500 --> 01:25:40,700
great environment to work in so 
much so much creativity, so much

1300
01:25:40,700 --> 01:25:45,900
lunacy, and they both go hand in
hand. 

1301
01:25:45,900 --> 01:25:47,800
That's wonderful. 
Who was the biggest pleasure to 

1302
01:25:47,800 --> 01:25:50,300
work with the studio? 
Do you think it was the biggest 

1303
01:25:50,900 --> 01:25:56,000
influence our or who was the? 
I don't know the guy that that 

1304
01:25:56,000 --> 01:26:00,500
was your mentor. 
That's good. 

1305
01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:03,400
That's really difficult. 
That's really difficult. 

1306
01:26:03,400 --> 01:26:07,200
I mean, you know good though? 
No, no. 

1307
01:26:07,200 --> 01:26:08,200
I'll let you go first. 
My 

1308
01:26:18,700 --> 01:26:21,900
advice on painting by people, 
like, John and Mike. 

1309
01:26:22,200 --> 01:26:26,500
They and, and other people too 
rich, right? 

1310
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:30,100
Everybody knows, everybody. 
Yeah. 

1311
01:26:30,200 --> 01:26:33,900
My fantastic artist and 
illustrator these places digital

1312
01:26:33,900 --> 01:26:37,200
artist is an incredible figure 
painter. 

1313
01:26:37,600 --> 01:26:38,800
Yeah. 
Probably the maze. 

1314
01:26:39,700 --> 01:26:41,400
He's incredible. 
Yeah. 

1315
01:26:56,000 --> 01:26:59,000
Journals that has a lot of 
Richard's work on it. 

1316
01:26:59,600 --> 01:27:02,800
A lot of the Elder that I 
thought might painted he did. 

1317
01:27:04,600 --> 01:27:07,500
It was just incredible. 
Like, it's just stunning. 

1318
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:12,000
Yeah, but he was not the glazed.
I gotta remember asking my 

1319
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:13,900
client. 
How did Richard do that? 

1320
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:17,600
And he was exactly like Tobin, 
you know, like Mike said, like 

1321
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:20,400
he would just like, be like 30 
layers of glazing. 

1322
01:27:22,700 --> 01:27:26,400
Even having the patience to do 
that, it's mind-boggling. 

1323
01:27:31,300 --> 01:27:34,200
Yeah. 
So it was because it was such a 

1324
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:37,500
creative environment and you 
know, the inspiration came from 

1325
01:27:37,500 --> 01:27:46,300
all sides. 
I think like, yeah, for me it's 

1326
01:27:48,200 --> 01:27:50,900
it's a Stewart say that. 
It's a super difficult question.

1327
01:27:50,900 --> 01:27:53,200
Like you you were going to lose 
all some people, right? 

1328
01:27:53,800 --> 01:28:00,700
But I would say on a, you know, 
one is a personal level thing, 

1329
01:28:00,700 --> 01:28:04,800
most Gary morally, likey, I 
don't know, you know, he gets a 

1330
01:28:04,808 --> 01:28:07,500
lot of flack for these 
Miniatures, but there was a time

1331
01:28:07,500 --> 01:28:11,500
when they he was making pretty 
cool figures, I think he was, he

1332
01:28:11,500 --> 01:28:14,500
was a great guy and he was, you 
know, he was doing cool stuff 

1333
01:28:14,500 --> 01:28:18,400
and, you know, he was very 
helpful to me, as I was like, 

1334
01:28:18,500 --> 01:28:23,600
literally a teenager and Gary 
was like a very You know, 

1335
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:26,800
influential on the good way kind
of guy like he was there, you 

1336
01:28:26,800 --> 01:28:30,100
know, he had view on life and 
all the rest of it is all good 

1337
01:28:30,500 --> 01:28:33,800
and then, but and then second of
course, Jesse like how can you? 

1338
01:28:33,800 --> 01:28:36,800
And I know a lot of people will 
seem like the obvious answer 

1339
01:28:36,800 --> 01:28:41,400
because Jeff Goodwin but like, 
yeah, like literally, you know, 

1340
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:46,200
the best miniature sculptor on 
a, you know, the best Concepts 

1341
01:28:46,200 --> 01:28:51,300
on Earth, anything used to go 
used to go into his office and 

1342
01:28:51,300 --> 01:28:54,700
if you need here just to see 
What he was doing and thinking 

1343
01:28:54,700 --> 01:28:59,000
and just incredible you know 
like how can you not be 

1344
01:29:00,500 --> 01:29:04,200
motivated by that or inspired by
that you know you know? 

1345
01:29:04,300 --> 01:29:07,900
Yeah, just standing there 
flipping through his flipping 

1346
01:29:07,900 --> 01:29:10,300
through his first books, just 
insane. 

1347
01:29:10,300 --> 01:29:14,400
What the sketch books were just 
really, I mean, especially for 

1348
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:17,700
you, I mean, I was just a figure
Place Stewart can actually draw 

1349
01:29:17,700 --> 01:29:20,600
as well, so for someone like 
used to it, but you could 

1350
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:24,200
appreciate what that means. 
Like, Tell me just like 

1351
01:29:24,200 --> 01:29:26,800
literally page after page of the
stick. 

1352
01:29:26,800 --> 01:29:28,600
Incredible sketches and 
drawings. 

1353
01:29:29,300 --> 01:29:37,600
It's just yeah, but 
mind-boggling Yes, it was people

1354
01:29:37,600 --> 01:29:40,000
like him that hood. 
And again, jump, marches. 

1355
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:43,400
Another one, I know his, his 
style is not to everybody's 

1356
01:29:43,400 --> 01:29:51,800
taste, but I mean, He's had so 
much influence, Jesuits had so 

1357
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:55,100
much influence these creatives. 
These people who've been there 

1358
01:29:55,100 --> 01:30:02,200
for a thousand years or more 
doing all this stuff that 

1359
01:30:02,200 --> 01:30:06,600
everybody else has has sort of 
taken off and run with it in 

1360
01:30:06,600 --> 01:30:10,100
different directions. 
And these guys were around all 

1361
01:30:10,100 --> 01:30:12,600
the time. 
And if you wanted to say, what 

1362
01:30:12,600 --> 01:30:14,900
do you think of this? 
You could go up to somebody like

1363
01:30:14,900 --> 01:30:17,200
that and go. 
What do you think of this? 

1364
01:30:17,200 --> 01:30:18,800
How do you? 
This is going to work and they 

1365
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:22,900
would tell, you know, sometimes 
they tell you that you were 

1366
01:30:22,900 --> 01:30:26,200
being an idiot and what you were
doing, wouldn't work. 

1367
01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:31,000
But most of the time it was 
incredible advice from from 

1368
01:30:31,000 --> 01:30:35,400
these people that not only were 
extremely talented, but they 

1369
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:38,000
were the ones who have been 
there from the start, you know, 

1370
01:30:38,300 --> 01:30:39,900
knew more about it than 
everybody else. 

1371
01:30:39,900 --> 01:30:45,400
But together, I think that, 
yeah, I would even even today, 

1372
01:30:45,400 --> 01:30:48,900
actually, still I would Posit 
that like one of the really 

1373
01:30:48,900 --> 01:30:51,600
important things is that, you 
know, so many people have come 

1374
01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:55,700
and gone over the, what, for 
decades or whatever is there a 

1375
01:30:55,700 --> 01:30:58,600
workshop? 
Yeah, but it's really telling 

1376
01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:06,000
that, you know, Jess Ali, you 
know, Dave Andrews twins have 

1377
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:08,400
gone now but they were there for
a long time but, you know, 

1378
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:12,100
there's a certain key people who
really were just there to the 

1379
01:31:12,100 --> 01:31:16,800
whole thing. 
Hmm, and yeah, you know, really 

1380
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:20,100
a kind of They've defined the 
whole Hobby and everything that 

1381
01:31:22,100 --> 01:31:26,400
makes it near yeah. 
Yeah, it's not just a few little

1382
01:31:26,400 --> 01:31:29,100
bits and pieces that they've 
done like you say it's they are 

1383
01:31:29,100 --> 01:31:33,200
the definitive, they're the ones
who not just started it off but 

1384
01:31:33,200 --> 01:31:36,900
have kept it going. 
And maintain that. 

1385
01:31:37,800 --> 01:31:42,300
And I think that's part of what 
what the success of Workshop is 

1386
01:31:42,300 --> 01:31:44,900
not in. 
Just it's not just the, this 

1387
01:31:44,900 --> 01:31:50,000
constant churning out of new 
stuff and rehashing of the 

1388
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:54,200
things, but it's that that 
continuity because you've had 

1389
01:31:54,200 --> 01:31:57,800
those same those same cookie and
loads of people have come and 

1390
01:31:57,800 --> 01:32:00,600
gone and loads of people have 
had input and loads of people 

1391
01:32:00,600 --> 01:32:02,500
taking it all in different 
directions, but you've had this 

1392
01:32:02,500 --> 01:32:04,300
continuity right the way 
through. 

1393
01:32:05,700 --> 01:32:11,800
So you can see an Eeveelution 
from yeah, about sort of 1985 

1394
01:32:11,800 --> 01:32:15,100
onwards. 
It's not, it's a constant 

1395
01:32:15,200 --> 01:32:19,600
evolution of And that's why 
they're so bloody good now. 

1396
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:23,400
Because they've just built and 
everything that has come before.

1397
01:32:24,100 --> 01:32:26,300
Hmm. 
Well, I will say that. 

1398
01:32:26,300 --> 01:32:30,100
I mean again just like it's 
probably your area of expertise 

1399
01:32:30,100 --> 01:32:32,100
because you like that like 
shitty stuff, right? 

1400
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:51,900
But down period like I don't 
excite dropped out that this is 

1401
01:32:51,900 --> 01:32:55,800
after I've kind of lost interest
where and I saw someone 

1402
01:32:55,800 --> 01:32:58,800
mentioned it on Facebook the 
other day where they say oh it's

1403
01:32:58,800 --> 01:33:00,800
the period when all the hands 
were massive. 

1404
01:33:01,000 --> 01:33:03,100
It's all the plus and I know 
exactly what they've driven by 

1405
01:33:03,100 --> 01:33:06,200
that all the plastic goblins and
stuff that things like giant 

1406
01:33:06,200 --> 01:33:09,500
hands on the scale and had like 
giant hands and the Miniatures 

1407
01:33:09,500 --> 01:33:11,600
with this crap. 
They were so crappy. 

1408
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:14,500
It's unbelievable. 
And again parodies the way to 

1409
01:33:14,500 --> 01:33:16,100
keep using because again it's 
that always it. 

1410
01:33:16,100 --> 01:33:18,200
This is like a parody. 
A of what Workshop is he, you 

1411
01:33:18,200 --> 01:33:22,300
know, he's like, I don't know 
how we arrived at that, but it 

1412
01:33:22,300 --> 01:33:27,100
that was definitely like, you 
know, I guess it's like what a 

1413
01:33:27,100 --> 01:33:31,500
six or seven or something where 
it was just like rehashing, and 

1414
01:33:31,500 --> 01:33:34,100
there's no new ideas. 
It's like, let's just rehash 

1415
01:33:34,100 --> 01:33:36,800
what we've done before and that 
all now let's do a parody of 

1416
01:33:36,800 --> 01:33:41,700
what we did before, you know, 
really it was over I think it 

1417
01:33:41,700 --> 01:33:44,500
was just you know there's 
nothing there. 

1418
01:33:44,500 --> 01:33:47,400
Okay. 
So I kind of want to because I I

1419
01:33:47,400 --> 01:33:50,300
wasn't involved at that point 
but I think Josh probably you 

1420
01:33:50,300 --> 01:33:51,800
were so I'm in. 
So what do I do? 

1421
01:33:51,900 --> 01:33:55,900
I wasn't like, I was really out 
of it, completely out of out of 

1422
01:33:55,900 --> 01:33:58,400
Games. 
Workshop as a hobby games, wish 

1423
01:33:58,400 --> 01:34:00,800
it was Norma Rae old really into
Rack Em. 

1424
01:34:01,300 --> 01:34:03,100
Rack Em is a French company, 
maybe you don't. 

1425
01:34:03,100 --> 01:34:08,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they were the 
New Gods for me the painters 

1426
01:34:08,600 --> 01:34:12,200
especially what those guys from 
Martin and Vincent we're doing 

1427
01:34:12,200 --> 01:34:15,900
in the Sierra Sebastian man. 
There were just they just blew 

1428
01:34:15,900 --> 01:34:19,400
my mind that Yeah, that was one 
of the things that pulled me 

1429
01:34:19,400 --> 01:34:22,900
back into it actually, was one 
of those I was in in one of my 

1430
01:34:22,900 --> 01:34:30,500
local game shops in Taunton 
about 10 or so years ago, and I 

1431
01:34:30,500 --> 01:34:32,200
happened to pick up a rack and 
catalog. 

1432
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:35,100
No, I've never seen any of this 
stuff before and I've met 

1433
01:34:35,100 --> 01:34:37,400
sleeping through one of their 
full color catalogs. 

1434
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:41,900
And my jaw just hit the floor. 
It's not just the quality of the

1435
01:34:41,900 --> 01:34:45,900
figures, but the painting, man. 
I was yeah. 

1436
01:34:47,500 --> 01:34:50,400
Just like, yeah, I'll go start 
doing this again because I've 

1437
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:52,600
got to eat. 
I've got to get get involved 

1438
01:34:52,600 --> 01:34:56,300
with this because it was. 
Yeah, some amazing stuff would 

1439
01:34:56,300 --> 01:34:58,700
being done, yeah, for sure. 
Okay. 

1440
01:34:58,700 --> 01:35:03,200
Sir to make maybe a question for
both of you guys will feel us, 

1441
01:35:03,200 --> 01:35:07,700
you know, we're all a bit long 
in the tooth now, see for 

1442
01:35:07,700 --> 01:35:14,400
yourself and I'm still young and
yeah, well, that's what the 

1443
01:35:14,400 --> 01:35:15,700
beers telling, anyway, I don't 
know. 

1444
01:35:20,300 --> 01:35:22,800
So you think when we first met I
was 160. 

1445
01:35:24,300 --> 01:35:26,600
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1446
01:35:47,200 --> 01:35:49,400
We'll be painting figures. 
Let's talk about eyesight. 

1447
01:35:49,500 --> 01:35:55,400
Okay mate. / - bloody hell I'm 
using magnifiers now. 

1448
01:35:55,500 --> 01:36:01,400
Yeah, I've Stewart guys. 
Like how is it affecting you 

1449
01:36:01,400 --> 01:36:04,800
figure painting? 
Are you having to use anything 

1450
01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:09,800
to enhance? 
But the Iceland. 

1451
01:36:11,600 --> 01:36:14,800
Hey, here is Bruce mate, very 
Spruce. 

1452
01:36:15,000 --> 01:36:20,800
My vision was absolutely perfect
up until about five or six years

1453
01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:31,800
ago, five minutes ago and now it
is about arm's length. 

1454
01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:36,500
Yeah, if I want to pay for it, 
I've got I've got reading 

1455
01:36:36,500 --> 01:36:38,600
glasses, actually. 
Actually, I was talking about 

1456
01:36:38,600 --> 01:36:47,600
this with One of the scope one 
of the sculptors he God this is 

1457
01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:50,800
embarrassing because it was only
a couple of days ago, that's 

1458
01:36:50,800 --> 01:36:52,700
another things. 
Not just the eyesight that goes,

1459
01:36:52,700 --> 01:36:58,700
you know, it's again there's a 
bee with a blade is. 

1460
01:36:59,200 --> 01:37:04,600
Yeah. 
But I've got, I'm using super 

1461
01:37:04,600 --> 01:37:08,200
strength reading glasses now, to
be able to paint, and I've can't

1462
01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:10,600
keep putting it off any longer. 
I've got to go to the auditions,

1463
01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:13,300
because it, I'm going to have to
get some really good. 

1464
01:37:13,700 --> 01:37:15,000
Really good? 
Proper grasses. 

1465
01:37:16,200 --> 01:37:17,600
So that's good. 
Yeah. 

1466
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:23,700
You say Josh, you've been using 
those magnifiers. 

1467
01:37:23,700 --> 01:37:26,600
I tried one of them and I just 
cannot get on with it. 

1468
01:37:27,100 --> 01:37:31,000
Yeah, just can't, it just 
doesn't work for me. 

1469
01:37:31,900 --> 01:37:33,900
This is it. 
That's right. 

1470
01:37:33,900 --> 01:37:37,000
Yeah, flattens everything out 
too much. 

1471
01:37:37,000 --> 01:37:40,500
You lose all your depth 
perception that there's true you

1472
01:37:40,500 --> 01:37:41,300
do. 
Yeah. 

1473
01:37:41,300 --> 01:37:44,300
And I don't know why, but it 
just it just clicked with me and

1474
01:37:44,300 --> 01:37:47,900
I can use them. 
So they work for me, but I'd 

1475
01:37:47,900 --> 01:37:49,500
imagine to some people just 
wouldn't work. 

1476
01:37:49,700 --> 01:37:53,000
Imagine some people get 
actually, like, you know, yeah, 

1477
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:56,500
disorientation or whatever it 
might be from that depth 

1478
01:37:56,500 --> 01:37:59,700
perception, problem. 
So, you just got to find 

1479
01:37:59,700 --> 01:38:01,800
whatever's best for you mate. 
I'd go definitely to the 

1480
01:38:01,800 --> 01:38:03,400
optometrist, and Just check it 
out, man. 

1481
01:38:03,400 --> 01:38:05,200
Get some Kip. 
Get those. 

1482
01:38:06,500 --> 01:38:07,000
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1483
01:38:07,300 --> 01:38:09,100
Get some glass top. 
They'll have something they're 

1484
01:38:09,100 --> 01:38:11,800
made for you to do that? 
Yeah, for sure. 

1485
01:38:12,400 --> 01:38:14,200
Please. 
Do you remember back in the day 

1486
01:38:14,800 --> 01:38:18,400
when John used to like come on, 
walk around me like, pick up 

1487
01:38:18,900 --> 01:38:20,800
stuff. 
Our desks maybe like a holding 

1488
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:33,400
it arm's length. 
Yeah. 

1489
01:38:35,800 --> 01:38:40,700
Yeah, it happens to us, all 
right? 

1490
01:38:40,800 --> 01:38:44,600
It does really does. 
Yeah, yeah, I think my eyesight 

1491
01:38:44,600 --> 01:38:48,200
started going about who may be 
one or two years ago. 

1492
01:38:48,900 --> 01:38:53,300
I really felt a big difference 
and I knew that, you know, it, I

1493
01:38:53,308 --> 01:38:55,900
just couldn't see shit because I
take, I take photographs of 

1494
01:38:55,900 --> 01:38:59,000
stuff and look bloody awful. 
When I, when I zoomed in on, it 

1495
01:38:59,000 --> 01:39:03,200
was just terrible. 
And it will say though is like, 

1496
01:39:03,200 --> 01:39:06,600
seriously. 
I mean, I mean you know Josh 

1497
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:09,400
because you were kind of 
involved in the journey really 

1498
01:39:09,400 --> 01:39:12,900
but like it was literally only 
two years ago, like started 

1499
01:39:12,900 --> 01:39:15,800
painting again, not properly. 
I was our own things. 

1500
01:39:15,800 --> 01:39:18,000
Fucking Viking Army and I 
stopped paying figures again. 

1501
01:39:18,700 --> 01:39:23,100
I like, literally, you know, the
first attempt I literally 

1502
01:39:23,100 --> 01:39:25,700
couldn't. 
See, I've almond, you know, it 

1503
01:39:25,700 --> 01:39:29,900
was a nightmare but it took two 
or three figures and somehow, 

1504
01:39:30,700 --> 01:39:35,100
you do kind of tune in like I 
found my, you get It used to 

1505
01:39:35,108 --> 01:39:38,100
what you can't the level to 
which you can see. 

1506
01:39:38,800 --> 01:39:41,700
But also I need you eyesight, 
kind of, you know, adjusts or 

1507
01:39:41,700 --> 01:39:46,600
whatever, but it got literally, 
it got to the point that I. 

1508
01:39:46,600 --> 01:39:49,400
Okay, this isn't how it was 
before, but now I'm kind of 

1509
01:39:49,400 --> 01:39:54,600
doing something that I can do. 
But it's, it's, you know, it is 

1510
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:55,800
radiant. 
It's scary. 

1511
01:39:55,800 --> 01:39:59,700
When you think back in the day 
you, we literally, you remember 

1512
01:39:59,700 --> 01:40:05,100
how we used to paint on our knee
and you'd be like right here Me 

1513
01:40:05,100 --> 01:40:08,300
as particularly people in the 
future and now I'm like, I need 

1514
01:40:08,300 --> 01:40:10,200
at least like two feet. 
Yeah. 

1515
01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:14,800
Was it was, it might Park. 
So used to sit with his chair 

1516
01:40:14,800 --> 01:40:19,300
really low and he'd keep the 
figure on his desk and he'd be 

1517
01:40:19,500 --> 01:40:23,400
hunched right down. 
I thought I used to think that I

1518
01:40:23,400 --> 01:40:26,200
don't know. 
How does he is back? 

1519
01:40:26,200 --> 01:40:28,300
Hold up for that. 
Yeah, what? 

1520
01:40:28,300 --> 01:40:30,600
Yeah, I used to. 
I used to sit there with it. 

1521
01:40:30,600 --> 01:40:33,900
My elbows on the desk figures 
figures like that. 

1522
01:40:33,900 --> 01:40:36,000
But yeah, you'd be Right. 
If you right up here and I'm 

1523
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:38,700
looking at my thumb now I'm 
seeing too blurry. 

1524
01:40:38,700 --> 01:40:40,600
Thumbs? 
Yeah. 

1525
01:40:43,700 --> 01:40:45,500
Yeah, there we go. 
Now I'm in Focus. 

1526
01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:48,900
Yeah, there we go. 
Full little arms legs and now 

1527
01:40:48,900 --> 01:40:54,900
it's stuck it out. 
Yeah, but if you see this you 

1528
01:40:54,900 --> 01:40:56,500
just gotta adapt. 
You know just going to adapt if 

1529
01:40:56,500 --> 01:40:58,200
you want to keep doing it if you
only keep painting. 

1530
01:40:59,500 --> 01:41:01,900
Yeah you just gotta find the 
whatever works for, you know, I 

1531
01:41:01,907 --> 01:41:03,700
mean and they'll be something 
out there man. 

1532
01:41:03,700 --> 01:41:07,600
So thank you very much. 
The sad thing is though is like 

1533
01:41:08,100 --> 01:41:11,300
you know this is sad. 
It's like really difficult. 

1534
01:41:11,300 --> 01:41:15,800
Oh my God but you know be paying
these figures are kind of going.

1535
01:41:15,800 --> 01:41:20,400
Okay, so yeah I'm happy but my 
friend gave me some primary 

1536
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:22,600
Space Marines. 
Oh God. 

1537
01:41:22,800 --> 01:41:24,600
Can't wait. 
And it gets stuck in on these 

1538
01:41:24,900 --> 01:41:27,600
three times. 
I've tried to paint them and 

1539
01:41:27,600 --> 01:41:29,500
they've all ended up in 
stripper, okay? 

1540
01:41:31,400 --> 01:41:35,000
And to be an experimental 
painter and have to sit and look

1541
01:41:35,000 --> 01:41:38,200
in the mirror and tell yourself,
keep calm and Space Marines 

1542
01:41:38,200 --> 01:41:47,900
anymore. 
Really sucks. 

1543
01:41:51,700 --> 01:41:54,100
But yeah, you've been you've 
been out of it for so long and 

1544
01:41:54,100 --> 01:41:56,300
it's something we all get takes 
time to get back in. 

1545
01:41:57,000 --> 01:42:00,000
Yeah. 
Next time man. 

1546
01:42:01,600 --> 01:42:04,100
Yeah you'll get your eye back in
maybe in another 10 years or so.

1547
01:42:04,400 --> 01:42:23,000
Yeah. 
No kidding, but like loving the 

1548
01:42:23,000 --> 01:42:25,200
fact that you can replicate like
that era. 

1549
01:42:25,800 --> 01:42:27,600
He's amazing. 
I'm enjoying this. 

1550
01:42:27,600 --> 01:42:29,800
Honestly, I love it. 
I love doing it, but I love 

1551
01:42:29,800 --> 01:42:31,100
doing the Rackham. 
Stuff to Allah. 

1552
01:42:31,100 --> 01:42:33,400
I love painting in that. 
I'm trying to emulate their 

1553
01:42:33,400 --> 01:42:35,200
style as well, which is 
incredibly difficult. 

1554
01:42:35,200 --> 01:42:40,000
Is it completely different? 
Yeah, I said, look at that, and 

1555
01:42:40,000 --> 01:42:42,500
look at like Paul Mueller's, you
know, sort of style. 

1556
01:42:42,500 --> 01:42:48,400
It's very similar to that but a 
completely different skill set 

1557
01:42:48,400 --> 01:42:50,200
involved with it. 
I don't know. 

1558
01:42:50,300 --> 01:42:51,700
No. 
Yeah I've going to I'm going to 

1559
01:42:51,708 --> 01:42:54,400
interview Martin about it 
because I've been in contact 

1560
01:42:54,400 --> 01:42:57,000
with him quite a few times 
corresponding him up. 

1561
01:42:58,500 --> 01:43:00,300
I'm not going to pronounce his 
last name because apparently got

1562
01:43:00,308 --> 01:43:02,000
it wrong and he said that was 
funny. 

1563
01:43:03,300 --> 01:43:06,900
Yeah, no, no, this is Martin 
from France. 

1564
01:43:06,900 --> 01:43:11,200
This is the rat one of the rack 
and Painters when the earth and 

1565
01:43:11,700 --> 01:43:13,700
grand grand body. 
I think it's cool. 

1566
01:43:13,700 --> 01:43:16,400
I'm not sure. 
I'm yeah, you know, you know 

1567
01:43:16,400 --> 01:43:19,800
until next to it. 
Yeah, you know, yeah yeah what 

1568
01:43:19,800 --> 01:43:22,400
he's doing? 
Martin's actually been he 

1569
01:43:22,400 --> 01:43:26,300
actually goes to Weimer world. 
He takes his new age of Sigma 

1570
01:43:26,300 --> 01:43:28,400
armies or 40 counties. 
It goes to talk to John. 

1571
01:43:28,400 --> 01:43:33,400
Blanche is a matter of Blanche 
fan and yeah, he's still very 

1572
01:43:33,400 --> 01:43:35,500
active in the hobby. 
He's a professional painter by 

1573
01:43:35,500 --> 01:43:39,900
trade and he's an incredible 
person has credible stuff here. 

1574
01:43:39,900 --> 01:43:42,500
Yeah, he's really good guy, and 
he's a lovely person just to 

1575
01:43:42,500 --> 01:43:45,700
talk to you know, is he's just a
really great guy. 

1576
01:43:45,700 --> 01:43:48,100
So I'm going to give get them on
to get them on the podcast at 

1577
01:43:48,100 --> 01:43:50,200
some point to talk about his 
experience. 

1578
01:43:50,300 --> 01:43:52,600
As with the Rackham Studio 
because that's that's something 

1579
01:43:52,600 --> 01:43:56,600
that I'm sure people would love 
to hear about, definitely. 

1580
01:43:56,600 --> 01:43:59,300
Yeah, I'd like to know about 
that because it's, it's like I 

1581
01:43:59,300 --> 01:44:04,000
say it's part of by the time I 
found out about them they'd 

1582
01:44:04,000 --> 01:44:05,800
already gone. 
All right. 

1583
01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:10,600
Catalog, this catalog that I 
picked up was in The Bargain 

1584
01:44:10,600 --> 01:44:14,400
Bin. 
It was just like I then had to 

1585
01:44:14,400 --> 01:44:18,000
look up who they were. 
And, you know this, they'd 

1586
01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:21,800
already gone over there timers. 
The past. 

1587
01:44:22,000 --> 01:44:24,900
So yeah, I'd love to know more 
about that because it's 

1588
01:44:24,900 --> 01:44:28,000
something that's part of the 
thing that completely possible. 

1589
01:44:28,500 --> 01:44:30,900
Yeah, many. 
Especially if you're talking 

1590
01:44:30,900 --> 01:44:34,800
about people to get on, if you 
could get like torben or like, 

1591
01:44:34,800 --> 01:44:38,900
yeah, it's all burning Jakob. 
I'll leave that to you like. 

1592
01:44:39,000 --> 01:44:42,000
Yeah. 
You've got chronic command. 

1593
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:44,800
But get those guys on that of 
yours would be great. 

1594
01:44:44,800 --> 01:44:47,500
Yeah. 
Well, of course with us, right? 

1595
01:44:59,800 --> 01:45:03,100
Guys back on from the heavy 
metal seemed like from many 

1596
01:45:03,100 --> 01:45:06,200
black from the early 90s, all 
the way through to the late in 

1597
01:45:06,200 --> 01:45:07,800
the late 90s. 
How good would that be? 

1598
01:45:07,900 --> 01:45:15,300
Yeah, good luck with that. 
Yeah. 

1599
01:45:15,300 --> 01:45:19,100
So you guys are the handlers. 
You'll have to arrange that. 

1600
01:45:19,100 --> 01:45:21,500
I don't know. 
I don't know who Leave that you 

1601
01:45:21,500 --> 01:45:23,700
might be good and be good. 
But yeah, it was good. 

1602
01:45:23,700 --> 01:45:25,200
It was good. 
It was a good story to share and

1603
01:45:25,200 --> 01:45:28,100
you guys, you know, you told a 
really great story and I'm sure 

1604
01:45:28,100 --> 01:45:30,100
people the listeners will. 
I really appreciate I did 

1605
01:45:30,100 --> 01:45:34,300
because you know, I know Day by 
only very briefly for four 

1606
01:45:34,300 --> 01:45:37,300
months in the studio that I was 
there and but I didn't know some

1607
01:45:37,300 --> 01:45:41,600
of my first mate for best. 
I tell you, I was so lucky to 

1608
01:45:41,600 --> 01:45:43,700
get that. 
I'm telling you you guys must be

1609
01:45:43,700 --> 01:45:49,500
desperate to hire me an Ozzy six
foot four to six foot four tall 

1610
01:45:49,700 --> 01:45:52,700
and could Campaign to save his 
life but you know somehow I 

1611
01:45:52,700 --> 01:45:57,400
still swim dude, I'm not got 
Crews else but do you remember 

1612
01:45:57,400 --> 01:45:59,400
the story you told me about what
bungs are? 

1613
01:46:00,300 --> 01:46:03,800
I can't really get because I got
a terrible man today so please 

1614
01:46:03,800 --> 01:46:07,000
tell us, yeah, that's not 
happening. 

1615
01:46:19,300 --> 01:46:23,900
My memories from from, 
especially the well, actually 

1616
01:46:23,900 --> 01:46:30,500
the whole of the 1990s, my 
memories are patchy at best. 

1617
01:46:30,600 --> 01:46:31,400
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1618
01:46:31,400 --> 01:46:35,100
Mainly mainly, because of the 
sheer quantity of beer that was 

1619
01:46:35,100 --> 01:46:39,600
being drunk at the time. 
I'm making up for that now, 

1620
01:46:39,600 --> 01:46:41,900
actually do it. 
So yeah, I wasn't a drinker back

1621
01:46:41,900 --> 01:46:43,700
then, but yeah. 
Now it's a totally different 

1622
01:46:43,700 --> 01:46:45,200
story. 
But yeah, I know what you mean. 

1623
01:46:45,700 --> 01:46:48,300
- I just remember sitting front 
of that cabinet. 

1624
01:46:48,400 --> 01:46:52,100
Stairs on the second floor and 
mezzanine floor and I was 

1625
01:46:52,100 --> 01:46:56,500
thinking bloody hell. 
This is just that, that was the 

1626
01:46:57,100 --> 01:47:00,700
Pinnacle of, you know, just 
seeing all these like literally 

1627
01:47:00,700 --> 01:47:04,200
thousands of beautifully painted
Miniatures in a cabinet that was

1628
01:47:04,200 --> 01:47:06,800
it for me just to reach that 
point. 

1629
01:47:07,200 --> 01:47:09,300
It wasn't so much. 
The people it was just sitting 

1630
01:47:09,300 --> 01:47:11,400
in front of that cabinet that 
just looking all over you. 

1631
01:47:17,900 --> 01:47:21,400
The only personally, actually, 
yeah, I used to. 

1632
01:47:22,100 --> 01:47:26,000
I used to go up and side, lunch,
breaks, and stuff like that. 

1633
01:47:26,100 --> 01:47:29,400
I used to go up and just look 
through the cabinets and all the

1634
01:47:29,400 --> 01:47:35,500
painted figures because it in 
while I was there contributing 

1635
01:47:35,500 --> 01:47:39,400
to what was in there. 
Because you'd always find 

1636
01:47:39,400 --> 01:47:44,000
something that you'd missed or 
you just pick up something and 

1637
01:47:44,000 --> 01:47:45,500
go. 
Yeah, that's a, that's a really 

1638
01:47:45,500 --> 01:47:51,700
nice job on that, or or 
whatever, you know, it's I'd 

1639
01:47:51,700 --> 01:47:55,500
love to love to be able to see 
into the cabinet's now. 

1640
01:47:55,800 --> 01:47:59,500
You see what the stuff looks 
like in real life. 

1641
01:47:59,500 --> 01:48:02,200
Now, God right now. 
It must be amazing. 

1642
01:48:02,400 --> 01:48:07,000
But I think like speaking to 
your point they're exactly the 

1643
01:48:07,000 --> 01:48:09,500
same. 
Like, don't look at the 

1644
01:48:09,500 --> 01:48:10,900
comments. 
You know, to our my God. 

1645
01:48:10,900 --> 01:48:14,500
Oh my God. 
But there came a point we 

1646
01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:16,700
personally, would he stop doing 
that. 

1647
01:48:17,400 --> 01:48:21,200
And it was when you were like, 
You know, I didn't think about 

1648
01:48:21,200 --> 01:48:24,400
it at the time but what it meant
was like, well it's because it's

1649
01:48:24,400 --> 01:48:28,500
not relevant to me anymore. 
Like I'm beyond this, you know 

1650
01:48:28,500 --> 01:48:33,000
it's like what we're doing now, 
you know, this stuff shared 

1651
01:48:33,000 --> 01:48:36,600
paid, what do you know, 
basically, you know which was 

1652
01:48:36,600 --> 01:48:39,600
which was fun in itself, you 
know, that you've grown up as we

1653
01:48:39,600 --> 01:48:41,500
talked about right at the 
beginning, you know, you've 

1654
01:48:41,500 --> 01:48:45,400
grown up as a kid looking at 
white dwarfs, sucking that stuff

1655
01:48:45,400 --> 01:48:48,200
in being so inspired. 
But when you come to the point, 

1656
01:48:48,200 --> 01:48:51,500
when you finally think, Now 
know, we're calling the shots. 

1657
01:48:51,500 --> 01:48:56,700
We journey up the stuff that 
other people dream about, you 

1658
01:48:56,700 --> 01:48:57,600
know. 
Yeah. 

1659
01:48:57,600 --> 01:49:02,300
Yeah. 
And I still find it quite 

1660
01:49:03,000 --> 01:49:07,500
uplifting quite humbling. 
A quite amazing when you bump 

1661
01:49:07,500 --> 01:49:10,600
into people on the internet 
online and go all, you know, I 

1662
01:49:10,608 --> 01:49:17,800
loved your stuff back then, you 
know, I was inspired to get into

1663
01:49:17,800 --> 01:49:21,600
the Hobby and it It, it's still 
going on. 

1664
01:49:21,600 --> 01:49:26,500
Now we were probably we were 
probably the second generation 

1665
01:49:26,500 --> 01:49:30,000
of that because Wing we looked 
at the original heavy, metal 

1666
01:49:30,000 --> 01:49:35,500
stuff for the pre 90 stuff and 
that fired us to get started. 

1667
01:49:35,800 --> 01:49:39,800
And then there's been various 
Generations since then, you 

1668
01:49:39,800 --> 01:49:42,200
know, some of the guys who are 
sculpting against Workshop. 

1669
01:49:42,200 --> 01:49:47,000
Now were painters who were 
inspired by us and there's still

1670
01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:50,900
people who were inspired by us. 
They're painting and it's quite 

1671
01:49:50,900 --> 01:49:57,200
amazing. 
I find it amazing that we had an

1672
01:49:57,200 --> 01:49:59,600
impact doing what we were doing,
you know? 

1673
01:50:01,100 --> 01:50:03,400
Yep, very true. 
Alright guys. 

1674
01:50:03,400 --> 01:50:06,400
Well thank you very much again 
for your time this evening to 

1675
01:50:06,400 --> 01:50:07,900
come on, let's do it. 
Thank you very much. 

1676
01:50:08,200 --> 01:50:10,200
It's lunch time. 
I know last time for you make 

1677
01:50:10,200 --> 01:50:12,600
leaving for us, it's like 12:30 
now. 

1678
01:50:12,600 --> 01:50:17,300
So I know it was difficult to 
get the times lined up for 

1679
01:50:17,300 --> 01:50:19,600
everybody, so I really 
appreciate everybody coming on. 

1680
01:50:19,600 --> 01:50:24,600
You both coming on to talk to us
the the the crank of an podcast 

1681
01:50:24,600 --> 01:50:29,500
listeners will really appreciate
your time with us today and and 

1682
01:50:29,500 --> 01:50:32,400
such a long time to solve. 
We could keep talking for 

1683
01:50:32,400 --> 01:50:34,100
another era. 
Yeah, you sure about probably 

1684
01:50:34,100 --> 01:50:37,400
Babble on about all this, or we 
could, but will might have to 

1685
01:50:37,400 --> 01:50:41,400
get you back on with some other 
other x x any metal painters 

1686
01:50:41,400 --> 01:50:44,300
and, and, and do it in another 
time, guys. 

1687
01:50:44,300 --> 01:50:48,300
So again, thank you very much. 
Yeah, thank you. 

1688
01:50:48,500 --> 01:50:49,600
Thanks for watching. 
Yeah, cheers. 

1689
01:50:52,900 --> 01:50:59,000
Hey guys, you can talk as long 
as you like. 

1690
01:50:59,000 --> 01:51:08,400
So please make 40 minutes. 
So I'm glad you guys have 

1691
01:51:08,700 --> 01:51:11,100
connected now so please continue
that. 

1692
01:51:11,100 --> 01:51:13,000
Yeah, okay. 
It's only phone calls. 

1693
01:51:14,600 --> 01:51:16,600
Yeah, great. 
My pleasure - very much. 

1694
01:51:16,600 --> 01:51:18,000
My pleasure is lovely to meet 
you too. 

1695
01:51:18,000 --> 01:51:19,300
Stewart. 
Okay. 

1696
01:51:19,400 --> 01:51:23,200
And you I can make thank you 
very much and and see you guys 

1697
01:51:23,200 --> 01:51:24,300
again soon. 
Take care. 

1698
01:51:24,600 --> 01:51:25,800
Yeah. 
Be say soon. 

1699
01:51:25,800 --> 01:51:26,700
Thank you. 
All right. 

1700
01:51:26,700 --> 01:51:27,500
Bye-bye. 
Cheers.