1 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,760 This podcast shares personal stories and professional 2 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,400 insights, but it's not a substitute for medical advice or 3 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,720 therapy. If you're looking for support, 4 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,600 do speak to someone qualified and trained in child development 5 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,640 or special needs care. You'll find the full disclaimer 6 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:43,160 on the screen and in the show note. 7 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:48,160 Welcome to another episode of Adapting Together podcast. 8 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:53,320 We are a podcast to empower, support and inspire parents and 9 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,720 caregiver of neurodivergent children. 10 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,120 My name is Cindy. Today, together with me, we have 11 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,040 Kevin and also Carmen. Hello. 12 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:05,040 Hi. Right, so today we're going to 13 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,200 talk a topic related to music, so. 14 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,040 We're going to sing a topic, not talk. 15 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:18,000 And yeah, we actually have a chance to know Shereen, you 16 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:23,840 know, this is our guest today. And we know, I know her about 8 17 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:25,200 years ago. Yeah. 18 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,920 And she's one of the pioneer music therapists in Malaysia. 19 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,640 She I think she will agree with me on that. 20 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:34,760 Sort of. There were only five of us when 21 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:36,840 I was I started practicing. Wow. 22 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:38,920 Yeah. So I was probably the 6th or the 23 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:40,640 7th 1. Yes, in the. 24 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:43,760 Country. Wow, so I was that Tan has a 25 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:48,040 chance to invite her to come into our center and conduct a 26 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:52,120 session with kids, with parents and with the therapist and I, I 27 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,160 remember it was a very fun session. 28 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,720 Yes. And today we are looking at what 29 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,560 we have on the table. We know that today is not going 30 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,520 to be like I just a talking session. 31 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:07,640 It will be a session that's full of music and I would like to 32 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:10,720 pass the time to Shereen and then let her introduce a little 33 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,880 bit about herself and talk a bit about her back. 34 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:19,280 Thank you, Carmen and team for this opportunity is definitely a 35 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:23,880 great chance to showcase what music therapy is all about and 36 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,960 to share with you the passion that actually grew. 37 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:33,400 Well, honestly, I didn't grow up thinking I wanted to be a music 38 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,880 therapist, you know, I wanted to be a doctor or wanted to be a 39 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:42,160 chemical engineer actually. So I did my A levels and all. 40 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:49,440 But Long story short, I think the more I knew about the power 41 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,680 of music, which I discovered through a book that I read 42 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:55,080 actually when I was in university, it's called The 43 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,280 Secret Power of Music. It made such an impact that till 44 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,160 today, I can still remember the content of the book and the 45 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:08,600 experiments that they were doing to show, to prove that music is 46 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,600 actually powerful because it consists of so many elements, 47 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:15,520 you know, and we talk about frequencies and stuff like that. 48 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:20,640 So from there on, I became really, really curious about 49 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:24,520 really the power of music. And because I was exposed to 50 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,600 music since at a young age, I started learning piano. 51 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:33,280 So being a music therapist was something that I needed to work 52 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,400 towards. Actually, there was no up to 53 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:42,920 today, you don't see LinkedIn hiring music therapist, for 54 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,040 example, you know, you don't see it postings anywhere. 55 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:52,040 But I guess with supportive parents, they, they were like, 56 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,040 OK, so long as you can put food on the table and take care of 57 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:56,880 yourself, you go do what you want to do. 58 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,280 So that's how I ended up with all the experiences that I had. 59 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,560 I, I worked in a chemical company, I worked in advertising 60 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,360 company. And I sort of knew that those 61 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,080 were areas that I've tried, but I wasn't passionate about. 62 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,600 You know, I was still thinking of music and health. 63 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,519 So again, going back to, I wanted to be a doctor. 64 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:20,040 I'm like, no, I don't want to be a specialist because it takes so 65 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:24,240 long, 10 years to study. And then, you know, so music and 66 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:28,520 health was for me like the perfect cross and that was what 67 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,440 music therapy could allow me to do actually. 68 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:37,280 And I quit my job, my corporate job to study Masters in Music, 69 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,640 University of Melbourne. And I did 2 years there. 70 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,760 And when I was there, it was like a dream come true because I 71 00:04:44,840 --> 00:04:48,200 had the opportunity to work in the Alfred Psychiatry facility 72 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,680 where I get to be in the hospital at setting. 73 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,760 And I was in also interning in Monash Children's Hospital. 74 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,080 So I get to work with some patients over there. 75 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,680 And mostly I work with adolescents who who had eating 76 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:05,600 disorder. Yeah. 77 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:11,160 So however, after that, I still wasn't really sure if music 78 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,400 therapy was something I wanted to do until I came back. 79 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,840 And as I work with the children that I was working with, you 80 00:05:18,840 --> 00:05:23,120 know, that being a music therapist kind of like grew in 81 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:27,240 me like, yeah, this is, this is fun, you know, and this is 82 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:32,280 really exciting, you know, and it's really worth the energy, 83 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:36,560 you know, being able to work with another person and to see 84 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:39,560 how we could connect just through music. 85 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:44,720 From your calling line. In a way, yes, but I think I am 86 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:49,320 still discovering because I think like I was just talking to 87 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,640 Carmen just now quite a bit before the recording, is that we 88 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,920 actually grow together with our client. 89 00:05:55,520 --> 00:06:00,800 So I was working with children when I was starting off because 90 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,600 that was like the easy way in. They were already there and I 91 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,880 was at the right place at the right time. 92 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,720 I was in Klang, the only music therapist in the entire area. 93 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,120 So when one parent know about me, they were like so excited, 94 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,000 you know? And it's amazing the parents 95 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:22,440 support like almost every other day I'll get calls from parents 96 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:23,640 like can you come and see my kid? 97 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:28,160 Can you come and see my kid? And that time it was like for me 98 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,480 it was precious because I was able to see children that 99 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:37,320 weren't able to leave home, weren't able to be transported 100 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,280 out from home to centre because they were too weak or you know, 101 00:06:41,280 --> 00:06:44,640 they were just physically unable to do that at that point in 102 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,080 time. So I find that was ready 103 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,680 fulfilling when I was doing home visits. 104 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,320 Then as the years goes, you know, you work in organizations 105 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,920 in different centres and then the kid that I used to see when 106 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,400 I was practicing in my first three years now teenager and 107 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,400 young adult already. So it's like wow, you know, So 108 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,800 my work has already also evolved since then and also with the 109 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:15,400 exposure that I gained like getting to speak at conferences 110 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:20,560 like any CIC and running workshops in different, 111 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,280 different states in the country. So you get to meet people and 112 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,960 then it started to grow and you like, you know, starting to 113 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,600 think more than just music therapy, thinking about 114 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:36,480 inclusion, thinking about advo, advocating, you know, giving a 115 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,400 voice to the people that we work with. 116 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:44,520 So now that is where I'm feel like I'm heading towards. 117 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:49,680 And also I'm also currently working more with adults, young 118 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,800 adults and teenagers. Yeah. 119 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:57,000 So that's like a progression, like different phases of being a 120 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:58,800 music therapist. Wow. 121 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,880 A lot of things that you do definitely gives you a lot of 122 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,200 fulfillment and return, maybe spiritually or what not. 123 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:11,760 By all only begins because there was many years ago you decided 124 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:17,560 you want to pursue your career as a music therapy to the extent 125 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,920 that you were so courageous to quit your job and pursue it all 126 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:25,200 the way right. So I'm just wondering what drew 127 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,680 you to or what attracted you to be so firm and sure that this is 128 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,800 what I wanted to after reading the book right? 129 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,840 You there was something that must have hit you or strike you 130 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,280 to that. Aha, that's what I want to do. 131 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,760 Yeah, that's a very good question because I actually did 132 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,880 my masters in my late 20s. So I did not do my masters right 133 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:49,160 after I finished my my degree. That was because I actually 134 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,800 wanted to allow myself to explore what are the different 135 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:58,600 areas that is out there. You know, I knew that I wanted 136 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,560 to be, you know, I wanted to be doctor, chemical engineer, but 137 00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:07,160 then that didn't work out because I didn't do well in my A 138 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,120 level. So it's like, OK, studying is 139 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,280 definitely not my thing. You know, pharmacy also 140 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,440 definitely not my thing because I cannot memorize so well. 141 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,920 I have to memorize all the chemical and the medicine. 142 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:22,640 So I kind of like what I did was I kind of strike off 1 by 1. 143 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,960 You know, which area of profession which I think I have 144 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,120 tried, but I know it's not for me. 145 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:35,800 So I guess I mean, from being a music student in uni to be in a 146 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,920 chemical company working PR, doing PR, I think it's like a 147 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:45,040 very broad spectrum and it kind of covers quite a bit of areas 148 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,440 where I know that, OK, I can strike off knowing that I have 149 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,520 tried and it's not for me, not for me, not for me, not for me. 150 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,960 So therefore, the more I did it, the more I realized that I'm 151 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,240 more courageous. Like yes, music therapy, Yes, 152 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:00,000 music therapy, Yes, music therapy. 153 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:04,080 And I want to start and the response is good and it's 154 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,320 actually so fulfilling I. Think exactly. 155 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,160 Yeah. I mean, my first three years was 156 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,720 actually quite tough, quite challenging because, you know, 157 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,760 when you go to uni they teach you all the knowledge and all 158 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,760 the skills, but when you're actually practicing it, it's 159 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,640 like, yeah, not you. It's so different. 160 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:26,200 Like, you know, I would cry after every session in the 161 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,920 evening, I'll go home and cry and I'll message my mentor. 162 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:34,360 Always super important for practitioners to have a mentor, 163 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,480 especially in your first five years of practicing a message. 164 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,280 I say, can I talk to you now, please? 165 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,440 Can I talk to you because I feel like a failure. 166 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,520 I'm such a failure. You know, I didn't do well. 167 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,640 My kid didn't respond. My kid was just running around 168 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,920 in the room. You know, what was I doing? 169 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,120 You know, I'm wasting the parents money and blah, blah, 170 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,480 blah, blah, blah. So, but the more, like I said, 171 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,120 the more I did it, the more it grew on me, the more I felt 172 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:05,200 like, you know, I, I will learn to understand and learn to 173 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:10,600 really use the skills that I've learned in uni and all my life, 174 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,400 the music skills, how I can use it to work with the people that 175 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,280 I see. If you said that you had to go 176 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,560 through the time where you had to doubt it yourself and 177 00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:20,920 whatnot. But I think looking back, these 178 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:25,200 were the important moment that had you not gone through it, you 179 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:28,040 might not be so sure about this is what you want to do for the 180 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:30,160 rest of your life. So yeah. 181 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:31,920 Glad. That you have a mentor. 182 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:33,960 Who? Who bring you back when you were 183 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,440 down? And I think our listeners also 184 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,720 have people who are therapies or therapies soon to be. 185 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,600 And if you are looking for mentor, maybe you can consider 186 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:44,880 these people here. Not me. 187 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:45,920 Why? Not. 188 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,040 Is the best, is the best. Yeah. 189 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:52,520 Best example for us to learn from, you know? 190 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,160 Yeah. So Kevin is also potential 191 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,200 mentor. Even I am still for me, 192 00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,960 definitely there are a lot more to learn. 193 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:04,360 And what I want to learn now from Shereen is that I'm not so 194 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,440 sure what is music therapy or what it does actually. 195 00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:09,720 Can you share? Yeah, and. 196 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,480 How music therapy actually different with the you know, 197 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:14,480 the. Music class. 198 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:16,640 Music class, right? Like all of us. 199 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,160 I think some of us also attended music class when we were young. 200 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,320 Yeah, no drums and all these things. 201 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:24,040 Yeah, I think Cherie will be the best person who explained to us. 202 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,600 I tried. So after being a music therapist 203 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,120 for so many years, it was still a challenge to try to, you know, 204 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:35,440 articulate what it is because the definition that is written 205 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,960 is like 3 lines. It's super long. 206 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:41,440 But I would like to give credit to my very, very good friend 207 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,200 who's also a music therapist in Singapore. 208 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:48,280 She actually inspired me to explain music therapy using a 209 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:55,160 food analogy. So OK, think nice. 210 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,040 OK, great. So now I know how we can 211 00:12:59,040 --> 00:12:59,960 connect. All right. 212 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:02,080 Maybe I should sing more songs about food. 213 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:08,640 So I was reflecting and thinking and think of music therapy as a 214 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,760 plate of nasila ma. OK Yeah. 215 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:14,880 So Nasila. I know, right? 216 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:22,320 And this coffee looks fantastic. So think of a plate of nasila 217 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,360 ma. And a nasila ma consists of 218 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,200 what, A sambar. Sambar. 219 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:27,560 A really nice sambar. Yeah. 220 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:30,160 Rice. But not just rice. 221 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,640 It's coconut rice, Right? Other than that we have the 222 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:39,040 other elements, the condiments, the peanut, the anchovies, the 223 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,280 cucumber. But again, the cucumber, 224 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:43,800 sometimes you go to different shop is in different shape. 225 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:48,720 Some cucumbers are round, some cucumbers are in like bunky 226 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:54,280 shape, some they try to make some decorations on it, you 227 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,520 know, You know, they put effort into doing that. 228 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,800 And then on top of that, what else do you find in a Sulama, 229 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:00,560 Hey? I. 230 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:06,680 Have yeah, right. But again, you get to choose the 231 00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:09,800 protein that goes with it. It could be I am going Rampa, 232 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:15,640 could be Sotong, Samba could be Guran could be rundown, right? 233 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,840 I know. It's time for branch. 234 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,080 It could be. I mean recently I went and tried 235 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:31,600 this pork. So it was like rumpa pork with 236 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,040 the national mark. So in a pair of national mark, 237 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:40,080 you have so many elements to it. Same thing with music. 238 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,800 There's many elements to music. You have the beat, you have the 239 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,360 melody, you have, you know, the harmony that goes with it. 240 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:52,800 You have the pitch, high, low, loud, soft, right. 241 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:59,080 So, and as a music therapist, we use these different elements in 242 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,320 music. We adapt it to meet the 243 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,960 individual needs. So some people they want to eat 244 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,960 the cinema but they don't like their sambar to be spicy. 245 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:14,120 Some don't like the ikan balis, the anchovies because it's too 246 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:17,120 salty. My son love he only eat the 247 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:19,680 anchovies because he loves salty stuff. 248 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:25,440 Some of us choose sautong instead of chicken so same 249 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:30,680 thing. So in music therapy we that the 250 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,680 elements of music to meet the individual need. 251 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,520 Yeah, yeah, yes, exactly. Customizable, yeah. 252 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,440 So did that analogy help you understand? 253 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:42,520 Yeah, music. So. 254 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:47,520 How does this customization help the child or the person? 255 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,880 Yeah. So that we will come when I 256 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:50,920 demonstrate. Wow. 257 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:55,960 OK, So that I will show you how we use the elements of music to 258 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,120 kind of adapt to that. All right, coming back to what 259 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,240 music therapy is also again, have you heard of Botak Masila 260 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,160 Mark Near? My house. 261 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,400 What is the tag line? Number 2, second best in town? 262 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,520 Why not first best? Because first best is very 263 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,960 preferential. Your first best could be, could 264 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:21,360 not, could be somebody else's third best, right? 265 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:23,440 Common's first best is very different. 266 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,760 It's very subjective. Similarly, in music therapy, 267 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:31,640 music is very personal and we use music. 268 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:35,320 We use the music that is preferred by the client, the 269 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:39,920 person that we work with. So Nazima and music therapy. 270 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:40,480 There you go. OK. 271 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,680 Yeah. So sometimes parent ask like, So 272 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:49,480 what music should I use at home? You know, I will ask, what music 273 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,720 does your child like? Yeah, because my 6 years old, 274 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:59,160 he's already singing K Pop Demon Hunters when my six years old, 275 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,800 ten years ago, I was still singing nursery rhymes. 276 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,760 And if you're happy and you know it, and you put your right hand 277 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:08,720 in, put your right hand out, right. 278 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,920 So time has evolved and us as parents, as practitioners, we 279 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,800 also need to evolve and know that the song list for a six 280 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:21,640 years old could be different depending on your exposure. 281 00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:25,800 My 4 year old son, yesterday we were in the car, we were caught 282 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,920 in the traffic. So I said how about let's just 283 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:29,800 each choose a song and then we sing together. 284 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,160 Guess what song my 4 year old chose? 285 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,040 I don't want to see. You out that door, baby, Bye bye 286 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,160 bye. The N sing song. 287 00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:47,200 Yeah. It's my someone, but how do they 288 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,520 know it? Because they were they listened 289 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,520 to it and Deadpool, right, The dead it was in it was played in 290 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:55,520 the Deadpool movie, but of course we didn't show them the 291 00:17:55,520 --> 00:18:00,360 Deadpool because it was very we feel a bit gory, but it was of 292 00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:03,480 course exposure from my side because I love that song. 293 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:04,720 And I was like, Oh yeah, Deadpool. 294 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,400 See, this is Deadpool, and then this is the song, you know, And 295 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:14,680 then my six years old, he, you, you play Vanilla Ice Ice baby. 296 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:18,960 He can sing a song for you, you know. 297 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:26,640 So again, it's very preference. I mean, it's very personal and 298 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,920 it depends on the exposure of the child, you know, what song 299 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,640 the parents are exposed them to and what song they are exposed 300 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,600 to as well. So that's why it's a being a 301 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,320 music therapist. Our song list have to be very 302 00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:41,320 widely. Get to know every different. 303 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:44,280 Kind of songs, yeah. And part of yeah, and part of 304 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,920 what we do in the first few sessions is to assess what song 305 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,400 this childlike or this person like. 306 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,080 Then we actually use that as the first level to build rapport, to 307 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,440 build the trust. And then from then on, of 308 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,080 course, depending on their individual need, again, back to 309 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:04,120 National Mark, we work out the elements, we change the lyrics 310 00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:10,920 or we change the rhythm to fit to, to kind of help them work on 311 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:14,360 what they find challenging and it goes on. 312 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,160 So after we have already know what they like, right, What how 313 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:22,040 does it, what's the goal of of music therapy? 314 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:26,280 Then in the what are some of the objectives or areas that we 315 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,520 could help the children say like really like a a particular 316 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,800 preference already we already assessed then what is what is 317 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,200 the next thing that we know in music therapy will work with 318 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,680 especially children? So maybe this is the time that I 319 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,680 make you sing, but I still remember your question about 320 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:49,400 comparing traditional lessons and music therapy, which we will 321 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,240 come back to it again, but I think this is a perfect time for 322 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,880 me to kind of show you a song so. 323 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:57,560 Your time. Showtime. 324 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:58,880 Yeah. So I'm sure. 325 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,120 You know, I mean, I mean, I'm not going to put you on the spot 326 00:20:02,120 --> 00:20:04,920 or anything, but I'm just going to teach you first or. 327 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,200 Let me just demonstrate. So I actually have a client who 328 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,960 she's 8 years old this year and she's a just out learner. 329 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,000 So right, she can see many, many scripts from TV and stuff like 330 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,320 that. But when it comes to actual real 331 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,880 life and wanting to do something, she struggles with 332 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,640 what? Putting it into St. stringing it 333 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,840 into a sentence, correct. Yeah, so one way of her 334 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,400 regulating herself is drawing. So when she came to my session, 335 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,560 she was a bit dysregulated. So I said, OK, why not? 336 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,760 Let's just draw first before we start our session. 337 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:43,160 So she was driving, right? And then she wanted something 338 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:49,640 and she was like, shoo, please. You know, she was like kind of 339 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,920 like, I was like wondering what is she saying? 340 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,920 So she said a few times and then she kind of got quite frustrated 341 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,360 because I wasn't getting what she was trying to say. 342 00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:01,880 So this was the beginning of our journey together. 343 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:07,080 And I was like, I was looking, she was asking for a tissue 344 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:11,840 paper because she wanted to erase the drawing on the board. 345 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,320 So I said, OK, how about say tissue please? 346 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,000 And then but she was still, she was still struggling. 347 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,680 So I took my guitar and I just started and I was thinking, OK, 348 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:28,160 what can I come up with to help her string a sentence? 349 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:48,960 So I come up with may I have And then after going through 350 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:53,640 that a few times and she managed to actually sing. 351 00:21:53,760 --> 00:22:00,600 May I have a tissue please? So that was how I used the 352 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,840 element of music, which was pitch and singing. 353 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:07,200 And she was able to just start learn. 354 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,360 But she cannot string on her own. 355 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:13,200 So why do you ask? Put into a song? 356 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,880 She loves singing, right? And each time she asked for 357 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:26,440 that, I would prompt her and say, and she was saying, may I 358 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,120 have a T-shirt, please? Oh yeah, sure. 359 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:34,360 You are in a T-shirt. So that's how we actually kind 360 00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:37,360 of expand. Communicating. 361 00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:41,720 Communication skills. Yeah, verbal trying to strings 362 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:48,000 string a sentence together. So I think one way of you know, 363 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,120 how I would involve the parent when if the parent is in the 364 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:55,080 session is I usually say This is why I'm working with her 365 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,720 whenever she requests something, you can replace tissue with 366 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:03,640 something else. May I have a cup, please? 367 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:11,200 May I have some water, please, you know, So then she can 368 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,560 continue to practice and practice and practice. 369 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,360 The more we practice, the more neuroplasticity happens in the 370 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:21,640 brain, the more they're able to acquire that skill that we want 371 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:26,400 to want her to be, you know, to be able to put it together, put 372 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,920 the words together. Interview one therapy after one 373 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,000 therapy. Then every time I will say oh I 374 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,440 need to see this therapy. Oh my gosh. 375 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,760 I'm going to. Work. 376 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:42,000 I know what you're thinking already. 377 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,760 Well, you see that is that is the that is something that I've 378 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,880 been struggling with as a therapist as well. 379 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,160 As much as we want to help, we also know parents are also 380 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,800 struggling, you know, with sending, you know, their 381 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,920 children for therapy, the time and the traffic. 382 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:06,040 And you know, so actually what I have been doing for the past 383 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:12,360 maybe six years or so because I wanted to make this sort of 384 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,360 music learning more accessible. So coming back to learn music 385 00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:20,400 lessons, right, I'm actually been working with Trinity 386 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:27,080 Malaysia, the exam board to actually train music teachers to 387 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:31,480 have the skill to work with neurodivergent students. 388 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,920 So I provide because they already have the music skills 389 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,800 that they can pass down to their student, but what they feel that 390 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,520 they lack in, but actually some of them don't instinctively they 391 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:52,640 can actually do it, is that they don't know how to learn to 392 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,720 understand. So what I've been doing is I've 393 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,880 been training them, providing them training, giving them the 394 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,320 skills, OK, like classroom management skills. 395 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,560 You know, what are the things that you need to consider 396 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,840 sensory wise, the smell, the look, the the visual, you know, 397 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:15,520 the auditory even like working on their sensory. 398 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,760 You know how you can provide time in between your lesson 30 399 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,040 minutes like sometime that they can regulate themselves. 400 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,960 What can they do during that time? 401 00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:28,320 You know, bounce on the ball, bounce on the trampoline, jump 402 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,880 on the trampoline. Or if you have a student who 403 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,240 cannot sit still, on the piano chair. 404 00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:35,800 Piano chair is very hard, by the way. 405 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,080 Some of it is really like. Flat. 406 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,480 What can you do instead of using a piano chair? 407 00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:43,520 Use a gym ball, right? Yeah. 408 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:47,640 You know what's wrong with you? Or even a chair that I'm sitting 409 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,400 on. You know, I can turn, but my 410 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,040 hands can still be here. If you're learning guitar, I can 411 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:53,720 sit down and still strum a guitar. 412 00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:58,560 So does it really matter if you sit on the stool or a chair that 413 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,040 enables the child to still move around? 414 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:02,440 Yeah. But at the same time, it 415 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,920 actually helps the child to be able to focus in their learning. 416 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:05,840 Yeah. Yeah. 417 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,680 So these are some of the things that I kind of like work with 418 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,120 the music teachers that I've been doing for the. 419 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,560 Past some little little changes that is to adapt to our kids 420 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:16,800 sensory needs. That's right, to make them 421 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:18,800 focus. That's right, that's right. 422 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,680 And also like, you know, they often ask me what do I do if 423 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,200 the, if the child comes in and start kicking and crying and 424 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,960 stomping. And you know, so those are some 425 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,160 of the things that help them unpack. 426 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,080 So why do you see that behaviour? 427 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,840 What underneath their behaviour? What happened before? 428 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,120 What can you do? So I, I think that the teach 429 00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:43,320 some of the teachers, they actually found the training 430 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:44,840 helpful. And now I'm still in touch with 431 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:50,640 some of them because I actually refer them to music lessons, no 432 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:56,200 longer music therapies because some kids, some children after 433 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,560 going through certain time of music therapy, they are actually 434 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,680 ready and they actually developed the interest to want 435 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,560 to learn an instrument. So that's why I kind of refer 436 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,280 them to the teachers that have gone through my training so that 437 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:13,920 it becomes affordable and also they get to be in an environment 438 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,520 that's no longer considered like a therapy, you know what I mean? 439 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,280 Therapy. Yes, and more. 440 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,920 Time stopped to choose also compared to just you alone. 441 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,760 Yeah, exactly. I mean, there's five teachers 442 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,000 available as compared to 1 music therapy that's available, you 443 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:28,800 know. Yeah. 444 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,040 So, so that's what I've been doing as well, in addition to 445 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,080 having my prior clients because I see the value and the need 446 00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,280 there. Yeah, to make it more 447 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,240 accessible. So you were right to say she's 448 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:39,880 the pioneer. She. 449 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:45,400 Is. Of the, I mean, I have really 3 450 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:50,080 or 4 seniors who really did a very good job laying the 451 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,640 foundation before I came back. So I, I really want to 452 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,920 appreciate them for, for their job well done, you know, and 453 00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:01,160 providing that space for us to, to grow. 454 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:03,720 Yeah. So coming back to traditional 455 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:08,360 lessons and music therapy, I think what I can think of is 3 456 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,760 very distinct differences. First of all, you don't need to 457 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,240 have music skills to attend music therapy sessions. 458 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,880 Yeah, you can come in with 0 music skills. 459 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:24,920 Second of all, I think while learning music could learning an 460 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,720 instrument could be an outcome from a music therapy session. 461 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:34,960 But that is mastering. It is not a necessity. 462 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,880 The primary objective. Yeah, What we look at is the 463 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:43,880 process of mastering it. The process, how did the child 464 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:49,400 develop that skill to be able to master playing the instrument? 465 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:52,040 Yeah. So for example, like this drum 466 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:57,040 that I have some some children that we work with, they have 467 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,800 very poor grips. That's why they cannot write, 468 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,680 cannot hold a pencil well. So what we do is I would have 469 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,960 bitter with different sizes. So we start off with the bigger 470 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,200 ones that's easier to grip, then we proceed to a thinner 1. 471 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,480 So as they, as they progress, you know, and then we get them 472 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,120 to hit the drum. Of course, sometimes it, it 473 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,080 start with just very soft because you know, they are the, 474 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,800 the grip is weak and it falls off easily. 475 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,320 So but they as they grow, as they go along, you can see that 476 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,400 they progress in the strength of their grip and they're able to 477 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:36,240 boom, boom, boom, you know, and the excitement of having to 478 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,080 sound the drum really loudly actually encourages them to 479 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,000 really hold it really tight and really use all the strength and 480 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,440 energy that they have. Yeah. 481 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,400 So. So that's the second difference. 482 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,560 And I think the third difference is that music therapy is 483 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,880 conducted by a trained music therapist. 484 00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,640 Yeah. So music lesson is like a music 485 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,360 teacher, music educator. Yeah. 486 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,600 So that's the 3 distinct differences that I can share We. 487 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:13,120 Would like to also guide us a little bit to go through how 488 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,080 music therapy session will look like. 489 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:20,120 So I've, I've given you an example of the just start 490 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:24,480 learner. So the next one, I think many of 491 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,280 the children that I work with and also parents who send their 492 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,040 children for music therapy and say, can you work on emotional 493 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,800 regulation because they know that music speaks to the 494 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:39,080 emotions, you know, But sometimes we fail to realize 495 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,680 that helping the child to be aware of what's happening to 496 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,080 their body is part of feeling the emotions. 497 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,120 Like when you're scared, what happens to your body? 498 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:56,200 Tense face rate. So I think, how about your 499 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:57,640 heart? Heartbeat fast. 500 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:03,440 Heartbeat fast and then you just like want to you know, run away 501 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,600 from the situation, right. So I actually have a song and 502 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,560 credit to my former intern who is now also a very successful 503 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,840 music therapist. She her name is Sandra. 504 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,480 And I told her to write this song and kind of like guide her 505 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,920 through the process of writing it because we wanted to work on 506 00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,640 emotional regulation with this clients. 507 00:31:25,640 --> 00:32:53,480 So this how the song goes. So the song goes on and on to 508 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,920 talk about the different feeling, like when you feel 509 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,640 tired, what happens? You yawn and then you just feel 510 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:08,960 sleepy and lie down. So through that we, we support 511 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,680 the child being aware of what's happening to the boy and it's 512 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,360 the feeling. And then we help them put that 513 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:16,200 into words. It's. 514 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,760 A part of the lyric that say when I'm hungry, what I do. 515 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:30,240 So so it actually the song actually kind of like now that 516 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,480 you I see the song right, the lyrics has become so. 517 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,080 Long. Because it has adapted to many, 518 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,720 many different clients and one of them were hungry. 519 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,800 So the parents are like telling me my child cannot tell me when 520 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,280 he's hungry, but all he can tell me, all he can do is cry. 521 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,520 I was like, how do I do hungrier? 522 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:53,800 So I, I was thinking, OK, when I feel hungry, what do we do? 523 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:57,320 I just want to eat. But then they don't, they don't, 524 00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:01,200 they are not able to tell you so, but they can feel it, right? 525 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:08,199 So I changed the lyrics to say when I feel hungry, my something 526 00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:12,120 like my stomach's pain. Yeah. 527 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:22,840 You know, I feel angry and I just want something, you know? 528 00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,440 Yeah. So what we are trying to say is 529 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:27,920 your stomach will feel something. 530 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,719 So most probably is you need a food. 531 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:33,920 Yeah. So then the last two lines is 532 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,080 just really consistent across to say that this is your feelings 533 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:43,960 and it's OK to be you, to be me. It's OK to have that feelings. 534 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:49,600 So that's one of the songs that we use for emotional regulation. 535 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,199 So the other example that I wanted to share with you is like 536 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:59,000 if we work on social interaction skills, and if you break social 537 00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:05,080 interaction, social interaction skills down, 1 of it is actually 538 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,120 listening skills, the ability to be able to listen, active 539 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,480 listening. OK, so this is when you guys 540 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,240 will be involved. All right, who would like to go 541 00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:19,800 first? So the first one will be a drum. 542 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:23,840 Can I get that first? Yeah, sure. 543 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,080 There you go. I don't know what's wrong, don't 544 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,640 worry. So again, it's listening skills. 545 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,760 So it's me singing and then you just responding to the song. 546 00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:36,760 OK. Yeah, just so. 547 00:35:39,400 --> 00:36:00,880 OK, So Yeah. 548 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,520 So we don't need teaching you the song, you're actually 549 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,120 playing it, correct. So the song was can you play the 550 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,440 drum? And you hit twice, right? 551 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,200 So I will just wait. So let's see, can you play the 552 00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:17,360 drum? Yeah, you just take your time to 553 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:22,840 respond, right? So from there, I would move on 554 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:29,920 to can you play the maracas and shake, shake, shake. 555 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,760 Yeah. So of course, before this, I 556 00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,080 would already introduce the different instruments in the 557 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,520 child so that the child knows this is the name of the 558 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,600 instrument. If not, we might have some 559 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,000 visual cuts in front of it with the name if they can already 560 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,880 read it. Yeah. 561 00:36:46,440 --> 00:37:07,560 Can you yes. 562 00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:13,920 Conducted in a group normally. Well, you can do it in a group 563 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,240 or in an individual session, but what I'm demonstrating now if 564 00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:21,480 you can imagine with just one kid an individual session. 565 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,160 Yeah. So if it's a group session, 566 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,960 sometimes I'll do like a more of engaging with bigger group. 567 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,480 So again, I'll have many who holds the maracas or holds the 568 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,440 shaker. Then they can all play together. 569 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,680 Many skills are going to so just now I have to wait for your cue 570 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,760 to come in. I need to listen to the beat of 571 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,360 soul and knowing your turn, my turn. 572 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,000 Now it's your turn. That's my turn. 573 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,280 A lot of underlying skills being. 574 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:52,880 Practiced. Exactly. 575 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,040 Yeah. Just true that one little, small 576 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:56,880 little activity that we just did. 577 00:37:57,360 --> 00:37:59,480 Yeah. So from there, once I introduce 578 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,280 that song, usually I try to use the same song to expand it into 579 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,880 different areas. Who would like to try the 580 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,240 xylophone. This is the xylophone. 581 00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:12,520 So as you can see, it's like very well used. 582 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:15,680 It's all stuck with plasters and. 583 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,560 You need a new. But yeah, I definitely do. 584 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:23,000 But this is nostalgic because it's the first xylophone that I 585 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,200 had when I started my work. I don't think it's easy to get 586 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:27,360 it. Exactly. 587 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:31,000 And it's still, although it's broken everywhere, but with 588 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,440 plaster and with cellophane tape is, is still working well. 589 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,600 And if you just strike one note, it still sounds really good 590 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,760 many. Children have learned from here, 591 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,240 so it's important to preserve. It exactly that's that's for me. 592 00:38:46,240 --> 00:38:48,600 I mean, once I retire, I might just frame it. 593 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:53,320 And it's like this is one of the first instrument that I used in 594 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:54,880 my work. Yeah, so. 595 00:38:55,240 --> 00:39:02,080 Can you play red color? Can you play blue color? 596 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:09,720 Can you? Play orange yes and yes you can 597 00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:21,440 play the xylophone. So, so talented. 598 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,440 Yes, sorry what you're coughing. No, I mean, but from then from 599 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:31,600 there I might just work on, you know, following a color chart or 600 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,040 something like that. But again, if my goal is 601 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:38,280 listening skills, what I just did is with the same song, I 602 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,040 actually just tweak one of the element in the music, which is 603 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,160 the lyrics. And I work on different 604 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,840 different things, instrument colors, but I'm still working on 605 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,800 active listening. So the child will be more 606 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:56,280 sensitive to the different small change in the world. 607 00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,480 Exactly. And I like it because some of 608 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,960 the kids, they really, their interest is really on musical 609 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:05,880 instruments. You know, they want sound as a 610 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:07,120 feedback. They don't. 611 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,360 They they prefer if given all this sound feedback than a 612 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,360 person feedback, they prefer this. 613 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,600 So that's why some of the kids, actually music therapists, can 614 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:22,160 do wonder in their intervention. It's like a change from, you 615 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:25,680 know, a lot of voices and speaking when you go to school 616 00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:29,400 is teachers voices, therapies voices and then you go for 617 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,640 different therapies is lots of voices. 618 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:35,160 So sometimes I actually don't talk at all, intercession. 619 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:45,360 I just sing and I just use my singing like you know, instead 620 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,160 of giving an instruction. Yeah. 621 00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:52,680 So another last one. Hopefully we have time for it. 622 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,480 You can. Walk and talk. 623 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:08,640 You Can Dance and sing round and round a row the ring, you can 624 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:13,080 swim in the sea, you can swim in the swimming pool and you can 625 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:15,200 fly. Through space, can you show me 626 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:33,600 how you fly? nose and blink your eyes and 627 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,920 lift your eyebrow and look surprised. 628 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:46,400 Wiggle your mouth. Make a funny sound and poke out 629 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:53,680 your tongue and move it all around again more ruffle your 630 00:41:53,680 --> 00:42:22,320 hair Dancing face. 631 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,120 So there we go. So that's one of the songs that 632 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,600 I like to use as well because as you can see at the end, right, 633 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,880 the child's like. It's so funny, like your face, 634 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,680 you know? And it will try to do all this. 635 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:41,600 So imagine if it's, you know, for you, you, you feel attracted 636 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,880 to it. I think for children, it can be 637 00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,680 quite fun as well during the session. 638 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,160 And when it's fun, they learn. Yeah. 639 00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,880 When I sing right, my son will say I don't want Daddy quiet. 640 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:58,840 Does it mean the children also have to love music to start 641 00:42:58,840 --> 00:42:59,760 with? Sorry. 642 00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:04,440 The children who comes to you, they also have to love music to. 643 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:11,440 Start with that is a myth actually because I have worked 644 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,360 with children who actually dislike music like I used to 645 00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:16,800 have. I had one client who he actually 646 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,520 can't even stand the sight of me with my guitar. 647 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,920 Yeah. So what I did was OK, if, you 648 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,720 know, I mean, I'm not sure if he had prior negative experiences 649 00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:33,360 with guitar or he is just not used to new things, not exposed 650 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,200 to new things. But later I realized that he's 651 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,360 actually very sensitive to sound because even in his classroom, 652 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:44,800 he actually put a headphone on. So what I did with him was that, 653 00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:49,360 OK, I don't take my guitar in my session, so I just use all the 654 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,280 other instruments that he was fine with. 655 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:56,720 And but from there I intentionally put my guitar 656 00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:59,920 beside me and said, would you like to strand the guitar or do 657 00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:01,400 you want to have a look at the guitar? 658 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,560 What's happening? You know, So some many times I 659 00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:09,200 feel that if we get, if we have the child or the person to 660 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:13,560 explore the instruments by themselves, they're actually 661 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:21,440 more open to the sound or using it later on in the sessions. 662 00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:25,200 Gradual, incremental exposure in your work. 663 00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:30,480 Sherry, have you worked with children who are not yet verbal 664 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:31,960 or non verbal? Yes. 665 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,520 Yeah, maybe you can share a little about this experience for 666 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:40,440 parents especially. So I can, I, I felt with so many 667 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,560 clients, I can think of one who still stuck with me today. 668 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:49,000 When his mom called me that time, he was actually 13. 669 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:54,640 So he has severe cerebral palsy. And when I saw him, he was on 670 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:59,240 the wheelchair and the only part of his body that was able to 671 00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:05,520 really move was his eyes, not even his head. 672 00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:08,920 He was also struggling to, to move his head. 673 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:16,680 So his mum, his mum intention was like, you know, sharing, I 674 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,760 don't know what else to do with him because he's not 675 00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,320 communicating, he's not doing anything. 676 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,800 So can you just do something? I said I will try. 677 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:36,640 So my goal for him was really to just build that connection and 678 00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:41,720 to observe what is his mode of communication. 679 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,720 How does he communicate For the first three to six months that 680 00:45:46,840 --> 00:46:16,200 that I went, I will just sing. So as we move on, progress on, 681 00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:21,920 for me, I'm without any words, but through my singing, I'm 682 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:26,000 telling you that when you respond with a, it's a cue for 683 00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:30,320 me, yeah, to continue. Or that you are singing with me. 684 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,400 So I said thank you for singing with me. 685 00:46:36,160 --> 00:46:41,160 So from from humming, I actually moved on to ah, trying to make 686 00:46:41,240 --> 00:46:46,320 the ah sound because that's developmentally when a child 687 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,280 develop, that's the first sound that they make. 688 00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:53,800 Ah, right or the cool right. So, so I sang. 689 00:46:53,840 --> 00:47:08,720 Ah, so I from, I said. And maybe from he. 690 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:13,480 Ah. So after six months, his mum 691 00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,120 realized that his mode of communication was then. 692 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:23,640 Ah, and as he walk along, he actually use his eyes to. 693 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,520 I will ask him which instrument do you want? 694 00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:32,680 I put 2 here so I can see that his eyes was like then he would 695 00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:36,880 actually really stare at the instrument that he wanted. 696 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,400 So I told mom. I said he is communicating but 697 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:47,960 we are missing it you know. So after three years, I mean, 698 00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:52,120 mom was very good, diligent. Every night she practices 699 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:56,280 singing. Ah, and with him, based on what 700 00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,440 I teach her in the session, you know, and she said Shereen is 701 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,200 amazing. He is responding, you know, and 702 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:07,240 she got so excited. And then after three years, she 703 00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:08,880 said, Shereen, you wouldn't believe it. 704 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:14,160 He now wants to join the dinner table where all the families 705 00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,680 having dinner together and he wants to be part of the 706 00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:23,240 conversation, you know, and, and he would respond and then mom 707 00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:27,280 can ask him, do you want Mijun or you want rice today? 708 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:31,640 And he can tell her previously she would decide for him it is 709 00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:35,680 the same every week, you know. So I said that's really great. 710 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:40,280 And for him, I feel like he would feel really empowered and 711 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:46,080 know that there is people who understands him the way he 712 00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:51,080 communicates now. And he feels like, you know, he 713 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:55,640 can decide for himself being autonomous and, you know, being 714 00:48:55,640 --> 00:49:00,080 a grown up to to do this, make these decisions for himself. 715 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,880 So that's non verbal. It's very powerful, right? 716 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,800 And also increase the quality of the family's life. 717 00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:12,320 Exactly. Making choice over like for 718 00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,400 dinner. I think from just you teach him 719 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:18,720 to choose one instrument that he wants, but then he can also use 720 00:49:18,720 --> 00:49:21,440 that same skill and communicating to the. 721 00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:26,320 Parents and I cannot emphasize the importance of parents and 722 00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:30,640 caregivers involvement, you know, in the world that you know 723 00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,960 us as therapist do because we only see them once a week, you 724 00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:38,280 know, or two times a week. But parents are there with the 725 00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,280 most of the time, you know, especially like this client, he 726 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:47,120 needed a caregiver 24/7. So Mom was there with him most 727 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:50,400 of the time. Yeah, being not just the family 728 00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,520 quality life, but also for the child, right. 729 00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:57,920 He finally like can become a member of the family because 730 00:49:58,000 --> 00:50:02,320 previously the family cannot understand the communication. 731 00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:04,480 So there was no interaction at all. 732 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,040 So it's like just to get live together, but it's not really 733 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:12,040 hello the whole family. And also having control of what 734 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,560 he what he wants left. Yeah. 735 00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,280 It's interesting that you mentioned quality of life 736 00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:23,280 because Cochrane Review, Cochrane Review is like one of 737 00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:30,160 the top review papers that the researchers used to review all 738 00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,640 the research that's being done about certain topic. 739 00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:37,520 And they compile it. And, you know, they, they, they 740 00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:41,000 come out with like a summary of what are the findings from all 741 00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:46,640 the research. And they did one in 2022 about 742 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,920 music therapy for autistic people. 743 00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:56,080 And one of the positive effect that music therapy can see is 744 00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,400 quality of life, the increase in quality of life. 745 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:05,640 Yeah, Doing this so many years, I still feel like I know nothing 746 00:51:05,640 --> 00:51:09,920 because now that I'm more exposed in terms of like, you 747 00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:14,440 know, the inclusion and advocating work, I actually feel 748 00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,000 like I don't know anything, you know? 749 00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,880 I think this is good because if you think you know everything 750 00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:23,160 then there will not be any improvement or the new purpose 751 00:51:23,160 --> 00:51:26,080 may not have born also. Yes, Yeah, I guess. 752 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:28,320 Yeah. How we learn and grow. 753 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:32,560 OK. We come to the end of our 754 00:51:32,600 --> 00:51:38,080 podcast and would like you to share with us, you know, a word 755 00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:41,160 of A1 message that you want to send to the parents. 756 00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:46,120 Well, you know, like Kevin say, I think some parents also have 757 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,400 the same feeling like you, like when you sing, your son tells 758 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,760 you not to sing. Yeah, you. 759 00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,960 It's great because, you know, some parents feel that, you 760 00:51:55,960 --> 00:51:58,960 know, I'm not a good singer then I don't use music with my kid. 761 00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,600 But you know, my message is that you don't. 762 00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:04,640 Music is very accessible nowadays. 763 00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:09,920 You can access music anywhere, everywhere, all the time. 764 00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:16,880 But I have my reservations about playing music the whole day 765 00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:21,720 because then music does not become a special experience for 766 00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:27,400 our kids at some at some point. So to do music with your kid, if 767 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:29,960 your kid doesn't want you to sing, you can use many other 768 00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:36,200 elements of a nasi lama of a music to to connect, you know? 769 00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,760 When my kids were. Younger, we will be stuck in the 770 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:45,720 traffic and then I'll be just banging on the the car seat or 771 00:52:45,720 --> 00:52:48,200 the heat, the headrest of the car seat. 772 00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:50,920 I will just park it out and just take it out because it's nice. 773 00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,320 Something new like a hammer, right? 774 00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:56,880 With the old cars, non new cars, I'm not sure if they have like 775 00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,760 the EVs. So I will put it there now just 776 00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:05,640 tap on the head seat, like yeah, put the head seat on my son's 777 00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:09,080 lap and I look at him. OK, give it a try. 778 00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:11,840 Then. Of course, sometimes he would 779 00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:16,320 try to mimic or he'll do his own rhythm, then I'll mimic him or 780 00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,200 I'll do my own rhythm and then it becomes a interaction 781 00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,640 already, you know, you're already practicing social 782 00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:25,760 skills, you're already practicing listening, you're 783 00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:29,680 practicing looking at each other, you know, understanding 784 00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,400 gestures, non verbal communication. 785 00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:40,440 So you can do that anywhere. Yeah, if I can, if I can share a 786 00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:44,240 little, a few more ideas that parents can can do at home. 787 00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:49,560 When I always find a lot of parents nowadays, we are very 788 00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,160 busy. I know because I have two kids, 789 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:57,040 1/6 and 1/4. But I treasure times like bath 790 00:53:57,040 --> 00:54:02,160 time and meal times and car rides because that is the time 791 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:05,960 where I can have their attention, their full attention. 792 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,360 Yes, unless you're the one driving. 793 00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:10,080 Unless you're the one driving, yes. 794 00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:12,720 So I'm always. Fortunate that I have my husband 795 00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:15,000 driving when we are on the road. But yes, you are right. 796 00:54:15,720 --> 00:54:18,520 When I'm driving I cannot do what I can do. 797 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,600 I can only Singer. Yeah, you know, you can have 798 00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:25,560 Cara case sessions in the car, but whenever I have the chance 799 00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:29,320 to, I will do something like the headset example or like bath 800 00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,600 time. I will do naming body parts. 801 00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:37,160 This is the way you wash your hair, wash your hair, wash your 802 00:54:37,160 --> 00:54:39,960 hair, then you change to this is the way you wash your body. 803 00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,160 OK, you go to UMPI, this UMPI and then this is the way you 804 00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:48,840 wash your hands late at night. Yeah, it's late at night now we 805 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:51,000 have to fast the shower, you know. 806 00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,280 So that's the time where you have the whole attention to you 807 00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,240 because they are just sitting down there or standing there, 808 00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,480 you know, so that's a precious 5 minutes there for you. 809 00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:05,240 You know, I'm brushing teeth and then meal time. 810 00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:08,680 Yes, meal time. So I, I, I remember one of my ex 811 00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:12,240 clients mom told me he was non verbal until he was quite old, 812 00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:16,000 like 7 or 8 years old. So she was a little bit worried 813 00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,960 and she was like, everything that she do with the son, she 814 00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:27,280 will you put it into a song like drink this water, drink this 815 00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:29,160 water. Now it's your turn. 816 00:55:29,160 --> 00:55:31,960 Now it's your turn. You know, suddenly the whole 817 00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:33,520 house becomes Sound of Music. Yeah. 818 00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:37,560 Yeah, but I have. To commend the mom for being 819 00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:42,920 brave, you know in and creative in including music into every 820 00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,440 part of what they do because when you sing, meaning the 821 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:49,320 person is actually. Emotionally also regulated. 822 00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,080 You Can't Sing when you're very angry. 823 00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:53,880 I think you are right. You are right, you know. 824 00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:58,080 Yes, you are right. I believe it's a total 825 00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:00,760 different. Emotion state exactly so the 826 00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:05,880 adult ourselves. We are at a regulated state and 827 00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,880 then you know it. Our child would feel regulated 828 00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,560 as well. Yeah, so use more music, not 829 00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:19,200 just turning on music, but us using, actively using music as 830 00:56:19,200 --> 00:56:23,080 in singing or playing and stuff like that. 831 00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:27,880 Yeah, I ask how to find music. Therapies in Malaysia 832 00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:31,200 especially, Oh yes, now we are more organised because there's. 833 00:56:31,720 --> 00:56:37,480 More of us in the country, you can go to the website, the 834 00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,440 Malaysian Music Therapy Association website which is 835 00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:46,880 www.mmta.org dot mine and click on find a music therapies and 836 00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,840 there's a list of us there. So yeah. 837 00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:55,320 So it also have like where we are based at and which area that 838 00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:58,760 we work with, which centre that we are based with. 839 00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:01,000 Yeah. So I think that would be very 840 00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:05,600 helpful for parents. You have to train more music 841 00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,080 therapies and. Music teacher to be more aware 842 00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:13,120 and how to conduct or support children on the spectrum as 843 00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:15,480 well. But for this, we thank you so 844 00:57:15,480 --> 00:57:20,520 much for your time and also all the preparation and the nice 845 00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:23,600 music, the lyrics and everything that I have learned. 846 00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,800 And I think our audience and listeners will also learn a lot, 847 00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,480 especially maybe most of us will be like first time open our eyes 848 00:57:31,480 --> 00:57:35,800 to what is or who is a music therapist, what they do, right? 849 00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:38,680 Yeah. And now is. 850 00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:40,360 A good time to talk Masila Ma is about. 851 00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:43,400 Lunchtime ready. But with that, thank you so much 852 00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,720 again Shereen, and thank you also for your attention to our 853 00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:49,320 audience. Goodbye and sing more song, play 854 00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:50,600 more music. OK, bye, bye.