1 00:00:14,100 --> 00:00:17,200 Welcome to the OPM podcasts OPM is the chartered body for the 2 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,000 project profession. My name is Emma divita and I'm 3 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,600 the editor of project apm's quarterly journal and your host 4 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,400 in the hot seat. Today, with me, is Eddie I bring 5 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,100 visiting professor at the school of growth Innovation and 6 00:00:29,100 --> 00:00:32,000 Entrepreneurship at Henley business school, esteemed 7 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,000 columnist for apm's project journal and a p.m. honorary 8 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,300 fellow. He's also learning director at 9 00:00:37,300 --> 00:00:40,500 the virtual business school Pentacle, a Ted speaker and 10 00:00:40,500 --> 00:00:43,300 co-founder of cube. He's author of project 11 00:00:43,300 --> 00:00:45,700 management. Bible all change the project 12 00:00:45,700 --> 00:00:48,500 leaders secret handbook, a new edition of which is out this 13 00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:52,700 year, Eddie calls himself a sense maker, and a Daft world. 14 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:55,800 So who better to give us their thoughts on the most important 15 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,900 Trends in project management for 2023 and what you should be 16 00:00:58,900 --> 00:01:01,200 doing about them. So Eddie I'm hello, I'm 17 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,099 delighted to have you here. Hello, I'm delighted to be here 18 00:01:04,099 --> 00:01:06,700 fantastic. I think it'd be useful for 19 00:01:06,700 --> 00:01:08,500 listeners. The free picks up maybe three 20 00:01:08,500 --> 00:01:11,000 Trends across the board that project managers should be 21 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,700 thinking about. Three Trends. 22 00:01:13,700 --> 00:01:16,500 A, how about if we start with people? 23 00:01:16,500 --> 00:01:18,000 Because that's probably closest to everyone. 24 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:20,900 Who's listening, almost everybody has found that their 25 00:01:20,900 --> 00:01:23,300 world. The world around them has, got 26 00:01:23,300 --> 00:01:26,900 more complex more difficult to recognize in terms of what's 27 00:01:26,900 --> 00:01:29,700 going on. The pace has gone up their 28 00:01:29,700 --> 00:01:32,500 ability to understand what the future will look like. 29 00:01:32,500 --> 00:01:35,400 As got a little bit more unclear. 30 00:01:35,700 --> 00:01:38,800 And for many of us, the connections we make to our 31 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,400 friends, our family, the rest of the organization. 32 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,400 In fact, our country He's has changed and I think most people 33 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,000 have recognized a little bit of that. 34 00:01:46,300 --> 00:01:48,200 And so that's the background context. 35 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,900 The way I've described in the past when I'm trying to do a 36 00:01:51,900 --> 00:01:54,600 shorthand, is I always talk about, you know, the pace of 37 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,800 change having a race against the pace of learning. 38 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,800 And when the pace of learning is winning, then you're in an 39 00:02:01,808 --> 00:02:04,200 environment where you can understand what's going on. 40 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,100 You can see what's coming next because you can learn faster 41 00:02:06,100 --> 00:02:08,600 world's changing. But when the pace of change 42 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:11,800 starts to win, then we move into what I call the new world, which 43 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,800 is Together different and in Project terms, I use that to 44 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:18,400 describe how projects are gone from being very clear and 45 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:20,800 obvious and I always describe his paint-by-numbers follow a 46 00:02:20,808 --> 00:02:24,300 system to the challenge of projects being around. 47 00:02:24,500 --> 00:02:26,400 Not knowing what you're going to do or not, knowing how you're 48 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,100 going to do it or not doing anything at all. 49 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:29,700 But everything must be done yesterday. 50 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:35,000 So people living in that world have both a logical pressure of 51 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,700 trying to get stuff done. But they had this enormous 52 00:02:37,900 --> 00:02:41,700 emotional thing, hanging over them and post covid. 53 00:02:41,700 --> 00:02:44,500 Everything seems Is this sped up even further. 54 00:02:44,500 --> 00:02:48,800 So what's going on? So so all sorts of things. 55 00:02:48,900 --> 00:02:51,900 The first is projects will speed up because one change leads to 56 00:02:51,900 --> 00:02:54,700 another, that's the first law of change, adding change to change 57 00:02:54,700 --> 00:02:57,700 creates chaos as law. So, if you do those two things 58 00:02:57,700 --> 00:03:00,500 that you understand that, even when you try and slow down 59 00:03:00,500 --> 00:03:04,700 projects, it gets more complex, but what do you seen from that 60 00:03:04,700 --> 00:03:09,300 is people are therefore looking more for The Human Side of 61 00:03:09,300 --> 00:03:13,400 project you would have noticed the trend Move from people, 62 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:17,600 talking about, I things like agility alone or delivery alone 63 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:20,100 or even benefits alone. Now, they talk about things 64 00:03:20,100 --> 00:03:24,000 like, how do we make sure people can cope with the change? 65 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,100 So there's a lot of stuff around things like the Neuroscience of 66 00:03:27,100 --> 00:03:31,200 projects, how people emotionally manage things through, you would 67 00:03:31,208 --> 00:03:34,000 have spotted things like all this knee injury changing 68 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,500 injury. How do you survive the politics 69 00:03:36,500 --> 00:03:38,900 and the change without getting caught up in it? 70 00:03:38,900 --> 00:03:40,400 You'd have heard things around that. 71 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,800 You'd have noticed that. Especially because covid made 72 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:46,900 people move apart, and become dispersed. 73 00:03:46,900 --> 00:03:49,800 And I'll come to this later. There is a challenge in terms of 74 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,600 trying to run a project team who aren't all sitting around the 75 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,900 same table. You can't actually get to where 76 00:03:54,900 --> 00:03:58,300 you all, you can do is stare at their foreheads about once a day 77 00:03:58,300 --> 00:04:03,600 via a teams and zoom. So so the human element is is 78 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:08,700 quite crucial and the leaders. Also, I think will find it more 79 00:04:08,700 --> 00:04:12,200 difficult to get clarity from their stakeholders in terms of 80 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:16,000 either Our decisions because of the uncertainty or in terms of 81 00:04:16,007 --> 00:04:18,300 performance. So, as a project leader project 82 00:04:18,300 --> 00:04:23,300 manager also small lonely When it comes to the individual, what 83 00:04:23,300 --> 00:04:26,100 could we be doing better? Or how do we better manage the 84 00:04:26,100 --> 00:04:31,600 situation first thing is, you, you need to solve accept the 85 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,000 fact that you are in a world which isn't easy to predict in 86 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,700 detail, and if you accept that, then your life immediately gets 87 00:04:39,700 --> 00:04:41,700 easier. I call it being lost in the fog 88 00:04:41,700 --> 00:04:44,000 will come to this in a second, but the whole idea that you 89 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,100 won't always know what or how. So suddenly, the ability to 90 00:04:47,100 --> 00:04:50,400 connect it, to learn to recognize patterns, becomes more 91 00:04:50,500 --> 00:04:54,100 Important. So that's the first thing for 92 00:04:54,100 --> 00:04:56,800 you to do that. You have to make space in your 93 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,500 mind because what happens is everyone's running around so 94 00:04:59,500 --> 00:05:03,200 fast and we live on our devices and so we don't stop. 95 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,100 So we don't reflect. If you don't reflect you can't 96 00:05:05,100 --> 00:05:08,400 learn if you don't reflect, you can't figure out patterns. 97 00:05:08,900 --> 00:05:10,900 If you don't understand patterns, you don't know who to 98 00:05:10,900 --> 00:05:13,100 connect to. So you have to make time to 99 00:05:13,100 --> 00:05:16,800 reflect, absolutely crucial. That's number one, during your 100 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,500 reflection. Don't just look for today's 101 00:05:18,500 --> 00:05:22,900 patterns, but recognize that as Human being the something which 102 00:05:22,900 --> 00:05:26,500 is built into the back of your neck as software, which makes it 103 00:05:26,500 --> 00:05:29,100 hard for you to deal with complex on certain changes. 104 00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:31,900 It's basically you have this software in that part of your 105 00:05:31,900 --> 00:05:34,300 brain, which checks to make sure everything is exactly the same 106 00:05:34,300 --> 00:05:37,100 as it was before and this is exactly the same, it says, 107 00:05:37,100 --> 00:05:41,300 relax, Is every every the same relaxed then it notices, 108 00:05:41,300 --> 00:05:44,000 something has changed and that software has the job to go. 109 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,500 Oh my goodness. Something has changed close to 110 00:05:45,500 --> 00:05:47,000 us. It could be anything, it could 111 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:49,600 be your role, your team, where it doesn't matter what the 112 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:51,800 changes, or even a loud noise, it goes. 113 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,100 Oh my goodness. I'm a human being. 114 00:05:53,100 --> 00:05:56,800 I'm now under threat. So it quickly does three things. 115 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,000 First, most important thing is, it's, which is your logic off. 116 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:01,900 And the reason for it switching, your log Georgia, golf is 117 00:06:02,100 --> 00:06:04,600 because it is trying to get you to react instinctively. 118 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,400 It then fills you, full of lots of emotion, usually, fear to get 119 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,800 you. Into the moment so you can't see 120 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,700 the future and your brain is Switched Off and then it fills 121 00:06:13,700 --> 00:06:16,400 you full of adrenaline which is great if you were going to run 122 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:22,000 away from something but since the whole world 24/7 seems to be 123 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:25,200 chaotic, the adrenaline doesn't actually help you because 124 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,700 there's nowhere to run to all the big challenges you read 125 00:06:27,700 --> 00:06:31,500 about in the news are huge. They look existential and they 126 00:06:31,508 --> 00:06:33,100 make an actor at the make you figure. 127 00:06:33,100 --> 00:06:36,900 You personally can do nothing. So you have this background 128 00:06:36,900 --> 00:06:40,900 flee, free-floating anxiety. When you talk about reflection 129 00:06:41,700 --> 00:06:45,000 is that something that you should be doing every day? 130 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,000 Is it something you can build into so it becomes a habit. 131 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:49,400 Do you do every day? Like it. 132 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,800 So particular time of day when you stop and think, yes, yes. 133 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,900 What you need to do is build it into your diary. 134 00:06:54,900 --> 00:06:57,800 So there's one rule, which is plan tomorrow to today. 135 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,300 So so you plan the next day the day before because once the day 136 00:07:01,300 --> 00:07:03,600 starts it just takes you over, okay? 137 00:07:03,700 --> 00:07:06,500 And in the day you plant for tomorrow, you hide in there, 138 00:07:06,500 --> 00:07:09,800 what I call holes which are meeting He's with yourself 139 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,400 lasting usually at least 15 minutes and if you can get a 140 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,100 couple of those or four or five of those into the day, then 141 00:07:17,100 --> 00:07:19,800 you're in a good place, you plan a meeting yourself to a meeting 142 00:07:19,900 --> 00:07:22,200 and you set it with yourself as when nobody can steal your 143 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:23,900 space. So how does reflection work? 144 00:07:23,900 --> 00:07:27,500 Reflection works on you thinking back on the experiences, what 145 00:07:27,500 --> 00:07:31,000 you plan to do, what worked, what didn't work, okay, and any 146 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,300 big surprises you've had. So if you know my stuff, you'll 147 00:07:34,300 --> 00:07:37,400 know that there's a people engagement tool called Action 148 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,400 Replay. We'll help you think about what 149 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,600 you're going to do. But what you do is to looking 150 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:45,600 for those things, which you plan to do, which work didn't work. 151 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,000 And any big surprises which is another tool of mine called Land 152 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:50,700 by sharing. So I can have a look at that on 153 00:07:50,700 --> 00:07:53,000 the internet and from there you then go. 154 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:54,600 Well I plan to do this, it didn't work. 155 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:56,200 What do I do? I do it differently how am I 156 00:07:56,207 --> 00:07:57,800 going to do it? Apply didn't plan to this. 157 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,800 It worked anyway oh my goodness, how do I do more? 158 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,400 So you're using that to try and get some sort of control over 159 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,000 what you're doing, capture it, write it down and you're looking 160 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:08,600 for patterns. Why is it every time I've had 161 00:08:08,700 --> 00:08:10,000 Stakeholders. They don't do this. 162 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,800 How come people are doing? Because once you see the 163 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,600 patterns, you don't have to chase after the events. 164 00:08:14,900 --> 00:08:17,700 So that's the people side. I'm going to do the other half 165 00:08:17,700 --> 00:08:20,300 of the people side, which is the stakeholder part. 166 00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:24,300 Yeah, teams and stakeholders, almost everything you do start 167 00:08:24,300 --> 00:08:26,700 from their point of view, not yours. 168 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,600 Because it is not from your point of view that all you will 169 00:08:29,608 --> 00:08:33,700 do is trigger their crocodile brains and they will pretend 170 00:08:33,700 --> 00:08:36,200 they're responding to you, but they're acting emotionally. 171 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,200 And then you have the sentence, you keep saying over Again is 172 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,400 why didn't they do? I ask them to do and it's cause 173 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:47,000 they didn't hear you because he frightens W surprise, that was 174 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,300 something like that. So stop where they are start 175 00:08:49,300 --> 00:08:52,800 with what they're trying to do. So have you got any other tips 176 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,000 around handling a team stakeholders for 2023. 177 00:08:57,700 --> 00:09:01,100 And so the stakeholder bid, the you can do what I'm suggesting 178 00:09:01,100 --> 00:09:02,400 which is engage with them. Humility. 179 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,400 But some people are really struggling. 180 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,700 So sometimes you just have to slip through the gaps I call it 181 00:09:07,700 --> 00:09:09,300 invisible lead. Leadership. 182 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:12,000 So you have to find ways of avoiding the politics and the 183 00:09:12,008 --> 00:09:14,600 fear and the hassle but getting things done. 184 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,800 I remember ages ago, one of my early projects. 185 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:23,300 I when I was young project manager shell, I figured out 186 00:09:23,300 --> 00:09:26,200 there was a particularly Troublesome senior person and 187 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,900 every time I did anything good and people ask me how it had 188 00:09:28,900 --> 00:09:30,800 gone. I'd attribute My Success to that 189 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:34,400 person and that made it very difficult for him to be 190 00:09:34,408 --> 00:09:38,200 obnoxious about my project because it was a whole I know we 191 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,700 hear you've been Helping Eddie. I mean, he probably can't pass 192 00:09:40,700 --> 00:09:44,200 that made a sarcastic remark but I said, oh, your line was really 193 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,500 gave me some input. So this a line that we hate me 194 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:49,000 lady happy, helping anyone that projects going really well. 195 00:09:49,300 --> 00:09:51,600 So so that's invisible leadership. 196 00:09:51,700 --> 00:09:54,200 It's Nicole an injury these days. 197 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,900 But basically, what you're doing is you're trying to get through 198 00:09:56,900 --> 00:09:59,900 things and not let people get in your way but you're not doing it 199 00:09:59,900 --> 00:10:03,500 in a nasty way you're doing it by helping them by connecting. 200 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,400 But basically painting Teflon all over yourself so you can get 201 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,200 through all that. Complexity and challenge without 202 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,600 without getting stuck in it, okay? 203 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,200 At the second Trend you talked about was that kind of project 204 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:18,500 challenge. So I guess you mean greater 205 00:10:18,500 --> 00:10:22,500 complexity what's going on in that area right now? 206 00:10:22,900 --> 00:10:28,200 Yeah, so so, so we've got better project management we've got 207 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,300 better. All the all the decades I've 208 00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:32,600 worked in project management, we've got better and better and 209 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,700 better at managing projects at the same time. 210 00:10:37,100 --> 00:10:40,200 The success rates haven't Gone up that dramatically. 211 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:43,600 I'm not tells you that over that period of time. 212 00:10:44,100 --> 00:10:48,300 Something is changing well, first of all, we started getting 213 00:10:48,300 --> 00:10:52,700 much better at things like stakeholders and planning and we 214 00:10:52,700 --> 00:10:55,500 went realized that we were not everything with into a Gantt 215 00:10:55,500 --> 00:10:56,800 chart and we understood benefits. 216 00:10:56,900 --> 00:10:58,100 So we've learned all these things. 217 00:10:58,100 --> 00:10:59,800 I'm the whole professionalisation of project 218 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,500 management has been learning how to run projects, but every time 219 00:11:03,500 --> 00:11:06,900 we did it, we then take on more complex projects or once we see 220 00:11:06,900 --> 00:11:10,700 it will speed, or we'd work on them in different countries or 221 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:14,000 We work across cultures so that we had Indians trying to deal 222 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,300 with swedes, and with completely different cultural backgrounds, 223 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,100 or we make people separate, or would use technology where you 224 00:11:21,100 --> 00:11:24,000 couldn't see the progress of the project, because the program 225 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,400 would say it's all going. Well, only a few bugs and you 226 00:11:26,408 --> 00:11:28,000 couldn't test and so on and so forth. 227 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,400 Then we went into cultural projects and and the rest goes 228 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,400 on. So we made what we tackles more 229 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:36,000 complex And it has got more complex. 230 00:11:36,100 --> 00:11:39,500 It's the people you're going to be dealing with a probably not 231 00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:43,200 in the same place at the moment. Many organizations are 232 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:48,100 experimenting with building diverse workforces, which sounds 233 00:11:48,100 --> 00:11:52,400 like a great idea until you put it into practice and then you 234 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,000 discover that that brings its own set of headaches because if 235 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,800 everyone is very similar, very little effort, has to go into 236 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,900 letting making them communicate or even a line in their 237 00:12:02,900 --> 00:12:06,000 thoughts. But if everyone's diverse, you 238 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:09,200 have to put tremendous effort in to make them communicate. 239 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,800 You got put tremendous effort in to make sure their egos. 240 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,700 Don't get rubbed up the wrong way, because they misunderstood 241 00:12:13,700 --> 00:12:16,100 each other. You go, but huge amount of 242 00:12:16,100 --> 00:12:19,200 effort into making sure they are lying, and they've understood 243 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,700 each other and especially the language of the different. 244 00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:23,600 The people are different. Their values are different. 245 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,800 Some of them were really care about the project, others won't. 246 00:12:26,900 --> 00:12:32,900 So, so we've added that into the mix and it's not trivial at the 247 00:12:32,900 --> 00:12:37,000 same time, we decided we were going to adopt after covid 248 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:42,100 Technologies, which promote primarily make us stressed. 249 00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:46,800 I'll explain why so sheep. And goats have the eyes on the 250 00:12:46,808 --> 00:12:49,200 side, why? So they can see behind them. 251 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:50,900 Why? Because they get eaten by other 252 00:12:50,900 --> 00:12:54,100 animals. Their prey animals, human 253 00:12:54,100 --> 00:12:56,800 beings, wolves Lions cats. They arise in front. 254 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:57,800 Why? Because they eat other animals. 255 00:12:58,300 --> 00:13:02,300 Okay? So what we've done is we've 256 00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:05,600 given ourselves this Age where normally you don't look a 257 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,600 Predators because it's scary. And if you look at Predators, as 258 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,200 you just look at one, if you have 20 Predators, you know, 259 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,200 you're going to get eaten because and you look from one to 260 00:13:13,208 --> 00:13:15,300 the other. But we've actually designed the 261 00:13:15,308 --> 00:13:20,800 software where you have a grid of 20 or 12 Predators staring at 262 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,000 you for an hour at a time. And so everybody is crocodile 263 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,200 brain, the old amygdalas firing all the time. 264 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,700 Your emotions are all over the place full of adrenaline. 265 00:13:29,100 --> 00:13:32,500 And then the other headache, of course is, but half of us are 266 00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:37,200 introverts. So we think in our heads and we 267 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,200 don't really necessarily want to see an image of ourselves on the 268 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:44,800 screen. So the mechanisms were using, 269 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,400 for all the introverts out there. 270 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,000 My heart goes out to you because you end up staying at yourself 271 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,300 and it's horrible. So we're trying to manage all 272 00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:56,000 these people in complex projects where we're not able to engage 273 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,700 with them because of the technology we work in bigger 274 00:13:58,700 --> 00:14:00,400 groups. So it's harder sometimes to get 275 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,200 to the truth because when you have multiple people Times, they 276 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,400 don't want to confess to everything, and that's, that's 277 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,000 the environment. And then we've got bigger more 278 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,800 complex projects, and many organizations, have less money 279 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,100 to spend because of all the lock down costs and so on. 280 00:14:15,300 --> 00:14:16,600 So they don't want to get things wrong. 281 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,600 So there's more pressure on the project to deliver and at the 282 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,000 same time we may have moved to more agile ways of working. 283 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,700 So we have to have more communication in through these 284 00:14:24,700 --> 00:14:27,300 media, which may not be getting us the information which we 285 00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:30,000 want. I hope I painted the picture and 286 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,300 people would recognize. So what do we do about that? 287 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,800 If I Go in like three different directions that will probably be 288 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,800 useful. So the first one I'll link to 289 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:41,500 what I said about foggy projects. 290 00:14:41,900 --> 00:14:46,800 So when you are running a project which is full of 291 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,400 uncertainty, I call it being lost in the fog. 292 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,500 Things to remember, would you ever follow anyone through the 293 00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:55,800 fog? You didn't trust now. 294 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:02,800 Yeah, so so when you're on that level of complexity job, number 295 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,500 one for the project. Leader is to get people to trust 296 00:15:05,500 --> 00:15:07,900 them especially in senior stakeholders, if they don't 297 00:15:07,900 --> 00:15:10,900 trust you, what happens, they keep asking for updates or 298 00:15:10,900 --> 00:15:13,300 clarification, they also updates. 299 00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:15,600 Then instead of you doing your job, you're busy writing 300 00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:18,500 updates. So it burns much more of your 301 00:15:18,500 --> 00:15:22,500 time, put you under more stress for the senior people, the other 302 00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:24,300 way thing you need to do to get them to trust. 303 00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:27,200 You is to get them to realize that just because you haven't 304 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,600 reported anything, doesn't mean nothing is happening. 305 00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:31,500 So, the difference in what you're expecting, what's 306 00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:33,000 happening is called the anxiety Gap. 307 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,100 So when Cena people suffer from an anxiety Gap, they asked for 308 00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:39,700 reports. So part of what you have to do 309 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,400 is to try to make sure that they never suffer from an anxiety 310 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:43,800 Gap. Even in a complex for key 311 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,100 project because otherwise it makes life more difficult for 312 00:15:47,100 --> 00:15:50,200 you and you go slower. Let's talk about technology. 313 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,200 So technology. Temptation technology, it has 314 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,200 always been an illusion and it continues to be illusion. 315 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:00,400 I'm lucky because I'm old. So that means I have this thing 316 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,600 called perspective so I can remember all the way. 317 00:16:03,700 --> 00:16:07,300 Back to when they told us things like no one work in the future, 318 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:09,600 will only have work one day a week and we'll have paperless 319 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:13,500 office is and all these new things called computers. 320 00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:15,600 They're going to save us time and you won't have to look at 321 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,300 them for more than about five minutes a day. 322 00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:19,900 So I can remember all the promises and I can tell you 323 00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:23,600 consistently that software is software solved. 324 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,900 Real life problems, permanently, we would have no problems in our 325 00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:29,200 lives because there's so much software out there. 326 00:16:29,300 --> 00:16:33,400 So now park the software. The problem is primarily around. 327 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,100 Humans and living beings. That's where our challenge is 328 00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:43,300 all come from. And as a general rule, Because 329 00:16:43,300 --> 00:16:46,500 people don't do that future Dreaming or what I call Future 330 00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:49,300 mapping. I'm going to put it out there 331 00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:52,800 and get killed but I would say a good 75 percent of all the 332 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,300 problems. People talk about today problems 333 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,500 are actually the result of yesterday's Solutions. 334 00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:02,000 So almost all of today's problems come from yesterday's 335 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,099 Solutions, because when the solution goes in, nobody bothers 336 00:17:06,099 --> 00:17:09,200 to see what happens next. But the technology these days, 337 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:14,700 especially, because of the digital Revolution, it tempts Us 338 00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:17,400 in different ways. So many of you people listening 339 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:21,300 might have played with AI with ideally chat, GPT and having fun 340 00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:24,700 with that. So, so we know, we know these 341 00:17:24,700 --> 00:17:29,800 Technologies are here and we've watched machine learning 342 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:35,300 Automation and we know I wrote an article a while ago about 343 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:40,500 what would happen if you had. A project leader, less project, 344 00:17:40,500 --> 00:17:47,800 like a driverless car or Co less organization and it was a joke. 345 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,400 But I was, I was making the point. 346 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:52,600 That make a driverless car work. You only need six systems, you 347 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,200 know, lidar radar. Bob, they do different things. 348 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,300 Some that look wise on the close by, and some of my guide, the 349 00:17:58,300 --> 00:18:02,000 wheels and so on, and as an analogy, if you take those six 350 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,800 systems and what they do, you can apply to a lot of what 351 00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:08,600 leaders and CEOs do would we want to replace them know 352 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,400 because the emotional and human and empathy and the passion on 353 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,200 The energy and that, how do you deal with new surprises? 354 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,600 He's not built into that particular approach, but the 355 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,200 technology is very tempting and we really are afraid that AI is 356 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,900 going to fix everything for us. But I think, I think it's a, 357 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,600 from my point of view, the way I would approach using technology 358 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:36,000 is I have a slogan. My slogan is empowering and 359 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,600 Hounds people don't enslave and embrace them, like a python. 360 00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:43,900 So, what you mean by that, what I mean by that is, Your project 361 00:18:43,900 --> 00:18:45,800 leader. Okay, what do you want the 362 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,600 technology to do? Is to let you be in Australia 363 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,700 and America on the same day and power you to do that. 364 00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:57,900 You want the technology the AI to trawl all your project plans 365 00:18:58,100 --> 00:19:02,200 and tell you which people you need to have meetings with. 366 00:19:02,500 --> 00:19:06,400 You don't want the AI to send out a letter on email to those 367 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,500 people to see whether up to the technology should Empower you 368 00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:13,000 making super and should enhance your. 369 00:19:13,100 --> 00:19:18,000 Our ability to be a human being. But the fashion is the exact 370 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,000 opposite, which is the technology is something you have 371 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,500 to type your data D2 data into. So basically, you are enslaved 372 00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:25,400 to it. You have to keep putting 373 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,800 information into your Clarity, whatever it is or the AI is kept 374 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,200 busy. Busy trying to use up all the 375 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,200 big data, so you can see where the big trends are whatever it 376 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:38,500 is, but you become enslaved to feeding the machine and it 377 00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:43,300 completely Embraces. You like a python, it squeezes 378 00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:45,600 you. So for me, if I don't you ask 379 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,300 me. How to deal with the Temptation 380 00:19:47,300 --> 00:19:51,300 Of Technology, you have to realize that the trick is figure 381 00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:57,200 out what you have as your vision which is going to empower you 382 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:02,100 your team, your stakeholders, your organization or enhance how 383 00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:04,800 people work, so that they have better, Human Relationships, 384 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,900 outcomes faster. And so on, when you figured that 385 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:10,900 out, then look at the Technologies available, don't do 386 00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:13,300 the other way around. Don't just accept, all 387 00:20:13,300 --> 00:20:15,600 Corporation believes that everybody should use blue. 388 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,100 Ah technology. No, no, no. 389 00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:21,800 Be awkward say well okay great. But the technology is not the 390 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,000 solution. The reason we're doing this is 391 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,200 so we can work as a team and because 25 different countries. 392 00:20:27,300 --> 00:20:30,200 So what do we need? We need to be able to see things 393 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,100 because we don't all speak the same first language. 394 00:20:33,100 --> 00:20:36,600 So if we draw together, it's much more useful and so on so 395 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,400 forth. So again, if you think about the 396 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:43,700 technology started from what you need, not from, not from what 397 00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:48,100 you're being offered. Eddie, you've left me inspired 398 00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:50,300 invigorated. I'm ready to go. 399 00:20:50,300 --> 00:20:55,100 Now, I think you've packed in so many practical tips for also 400 00:20:55,100 --> 00:20:57,600 areas to really think about. So I just want to say thank you 401 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,300 so much for your time. And for your wisdom, what did 402 00:21:01,300 --> 00:21:03,400 whether wisdom? But, thank you very much. 403 00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:10,900 Thanks again to ready for joining us, and to you for 404 00:21:10,900 --> 00:21:13,600 listening to this episode of the APM podcast. 405 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:15,600 Don't forget to look out for more episodes. 406 00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:18,700 Total to rate and review us wherever you, get your podcasts. 407 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,200 If you've got any comments feedback or suggestions please 408 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,300 do get in touch. If you're listening on Spotify, 409 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,700 scroll down was on your device. Now, to answer our listener, 410 00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:31,700 poll, well, we'll ask you what kind of content you would like 411 00:21:31,700 --> 00:21:35,600 to see more of on the APM podcasts, the poll is open until 412 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,600 the end of February 20, 23. 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