Hello and welcome to the IPM podcast.
Brought to you by the childhood body for the project profession
in 2022, a PM has been celebrating its 50th
Anniversary. So throughout the year apm's
chief executive Professor Adam bothersome has hosted a special
series of episodes reflecting. On both the past and future of
the project profession in this series.
Professor ball, Dustin has been in conversation with senior
leaders from the world of projects across industry and
government who have shared their career Journeys and advice as
well as predictions for how the profession might evolve in this
episode Professor Burleson meets Craig hatch, president at Tetra
Tech, UK Tetra Tech is a global technology environmental and
management consultancy with over 20,000 employees worldwide.
It's a pair discuss, the need for greater inclusivity in the
profession, the state of project expertise at c-suite level and
the importance of delivering long-term value to communities
through projects. Well, good morning Craig and
thank you very much for joining us on the podcast today.
It's a real pleasure to have you with us.
We've got a series of discussion points for today really, but
let's start. I think by talking a little bit
about Tetra Tech and I wonder if you could give us a bit of
background into Tetra Tech and explain what makes it unique may
be compared with other project delivery organizations.
Ins that operate in the same space.
Good morning Adam. Thank you for that.
I say, it's a privilege to be here.
Tetra Tech is one of the world's leading Global Technical
environmental and management consultancies, with 22,000 of
the smartest people on the planet who lead with science to
solve our clients complex problems.
The uniqueness of our business is that we're all we are led by
technical people who have developed through our company.
Our leadership are fully aligned and Our business model, simple.
We focus on clients and projects and developing great people to
deliver those great projects within the UK.
We can draw upon the Tetra Tech part of the business, but also
on our sister companies like Hawley Norman Disney and young
Tetra Tech International Development and we have
ambitious plans to further expand to become one of the UK
and Europe stock consultancies. Well I mean it's interesting to
put you in making about being led by science and being led by
technical expertise in the organization because one of the
things I often hear when I'm out and about talking to people is
that the project profession is seen as a very technical
profession, but that the balance between project profession has
been technical versus strategic is Shifting.
And I wondered whether you were seeing that at all in Tetra
Tech, Yeah, I mean when we refer to leader with science it's
science in its biggest area, really yo, so science.
Overseeing everything. So everything that we do in our
Technical and management delivery is linked to the
science, is linked to having smart people in diverse ways.
So sometimes it's technical people, sometimes it's people
with broader P EQ skills that are able to sort of Help and
provide the the overarching management that's required to
deliver the complex projects that we, we have and our clients
need delivering. Yeah, thank you.
And it's important that you make about EQ, as well, but because I
remember reading it was a report from McKinsey about six months
ago and he talked about the two, fastest growing areas of skills
development, that leaders were investing in.
And one of them was project management and the other one was
emotional intelligence, which I thought was Quite interesting.
So, look in terms of the profession more broadly, what
would you say the main priorities and challenges faced
in the project profession I'm thinking particularly here in
terms of social mobility and the and the reason I ask that is
because I've I often think about the profession as a kind of
catalyst for social Mobility because you can almost come into
it, any point in your kind of career Journey.
But that, but that diversity itself.
Adds value to project outcomes as well.
I'm just interested what you think the priorities and
challenges are in that context. I agree.
I any qualities. Remain a major factor in our
industry. In the project profession, we
need to ensure that everyone is given a chance to be part of our
Organization, no matter the individual or social background,
and where they enter equal and inclusive opportunities.
With strong, internal governance for decision-making, using
diverse panels, and Equitable decision making, we have
targeted Recruitment and and build relationships across
schools, colleges further education and universities
across the varying demographics. Not just the top performing
ones. And then once we have colleagues
in our organization, we have targeted mentoring with the, we
have our own mentoring program along with good policies, that
sort of make it real live the values that we set.
Ensure that everyone could be their true self and best self at
work and allow the development to occur.
And if we get that right, it means we have broader diversity
of thought, at all levels of our business, that help us deliver
our projects in the right way. That sounds excellent.
And clearly there's a lot that you're doing there in terms of
both within your organization and through the partnership's
that you have. But what about when it comes to
the the places where your projects are actually taking
place in the communities that those projects are Taking place
in. How do you approach the
challenge their of delivery, in kind of real long-term value to
those communities. Yeah, that's that's really
important to our business model. We are a global organization
with 450 offices, around the world, and a big part of what we
try to do is provide value in the communities that we live and
work. There's nothing more rewarding
for that are at the people. All business to deliver a great
project locally. So whilst we do make commitments
through social value that public procurement requires in tenders
and Frameworks. That's not the only measure that
we make. We embed that in our values.
It's probably important to know the, whilst the pandemic has
accelerated. Flexible and agile working,
meaning teams can be better, connected remotely.
I think their remains value you and satisfaction in local teams
delivering successful. It's in the local community and
I guess being on the ground in a local community, gives you a
real firsthand insight and experience are supposed to be
able to adapt up the project delivery to make sure it really
works those communities? Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, okay. Brilliant sustainability then.
Because let's talk about that because this is something that I
hear everywhere, everybody's talking about sustainability.
But what's interesting is, when you kind of I'm kind of peel the
surface away of that conversation.
It means quite different things in different organizations.
So, for example, when I talk to those who are very heavily
involved in, just construction, for example, you know, they're
talking about Innovations, like green concrete and this type of
thing. But I know that Tetra sex work
is very broad. I'm really interested to
understand what sustainability means from a Tetra Tech context
and how that works sustainability is at the heart
of everything that That we do, we made our 2022 to
sustainability report that we released on Earth Day on April
22nd. We reaffirmed our commitment to
creating more resilient and sustainable communities.
The report includes new Baseline sustainability, metrics for 2021
interim targets for 20-25 and new goals for 2030.
And if you take it right back to our company's initiation in
1966, I'll focus on sustainability began then and we
continue to support clients to develop innovative solutions,
using our leading with sites approach, and that improves
lives worldwide. The environmental social, and
government government ESG principles.
We apply to our projects are reinforced our commitment to the
UN Global impact and sites Bates targets initiative in 2021.
We share the results of our first decade of sustainability
reporting with the even significantly beyond our
original aspirations and that continues to grow.
But we recognize this still work to be done and we're pleased to
share our Baseline goals for a new decade of tracking for our
sustainability progress, we've established our Baseline
greenhouse gas emissions, scope 1 and 2 and Target Productions
and report on these through a carbon reduction plan and we
made a big commitment. And you know what?
I talked about it being part of our ethos, we've committed to
improving the lives of 1 billion.
People globally through the projects that involve
sustainable Water Supplies. Reducing carbon emissions,
generating neural energy, and supporting social, and
governance programs. We have a wide range of projects
Fallen under the sustainability. Banner things like greenhouse
gas reduction, strategies, sustainable, buildings and
infrastructure. Renewable energy projects flood
risk and release schemes Energy, Efficiency, Management Systems,
ESG environmental due diligence and then in the UK, We've
specifically have examples of that.
So sustainability report in supporting for radioactive waste
management team Regional Green Technology, scoping report for
invest Northern Ireland, hydrogen Hub, study for me
Denise, tantrum District Council Darby.
Riverside, we're undertaking a flood alleviation project.
Led by Dolby city council partnership with the environment
agency and we are appointed to design one, half kilometers of
flood, Defence to reduce flooding to the north of the
city. We have a large number of Priam
dhyryam and sequel assessments and our, high-performing
buildings group are involved in designing some of the planets,
greenest buildings. Well, I think just well really
the, the volume and complexity of the different work amount of
work that you're doing in that space is very significant and
the thing that really struck me there, as you were talking was
what you said about the about the kind of benefits realization
piece. I think there's one was it 1
billion? People globally that you wanted
to make a difference for? Yeah, I don't our Target.
Yeah. You know, and it really just
shifts. The focus, doesn't it?
It's not just about we've delivered our project on time
and on budget. It's actually that long-term
benefits realization piece which I really like.
As part of the focus that you've got that.
Yeah. And we're measuring ourselves
against that Adam. It is something that we're
taking very seriously, and we're measuring ourselves our progress
on that. Yeah.
No, that's brilliant and let's talk about the c-suite.
I sometimes Grumble a bit about the c-suite and that's because
in some organizations, what I see is they've got really
capable project professionals kind of across the organization
and then I look at what's happening in the c-suite and you
don't see that always replicated.
And so sometimes I see projects not being as effectively
delivered as they could be because there isn't that
sufficient knowledge and understanding at the c-suite
level. And I'm just interested to know
how significant the expertise is that, you've got to see Suite
level in Tetra Tech book, do you have any Reflections on my, my
grumbles? If you like more broadly about
the profession, Yeah, I think they're legitimate grumbles
Adam. But as previously mentioned, I
think quite uniquely for a company of our scale and breadth
of our executive leadership across all our operations,
without exception are exclusively developed from
within people that have been through the business have
delivered projects and provided high-level technical delivery to
our clients within my own UK operating unit.
I remain close to our project delivery through governance
reviews and the fair amount of time with project teams and we
have a weekly high-performing project management team meeting
for each area of the business. I'm joined on those by Tetra.
Tech chief engineer, dr. Bill Brownlee, from Pasadena,
who leads our company, project management Excellence
initiative, training our teams around the globe.
And I fully expect not just myself, but my team of managing
actors in each of our business units to understand their
projects efficiently to effectively incorporate the
role. That I know that's something
that APM promote is that of a CP 0 and to take that role on
within their area of the business.
Yeah well I'm really pleased you mentioned that that kind of CPR
that the chief project office or sometimes CTO Chief
transformation officer in some organizations as well.
I mean my sense of all of this is that if you were kind of
Designing a Ste sweet from scratch I do wonder whether some
of the roles that are traditionally associated with
seats. We've let the CEO.
For example, would those roles really exist in a kind of in
this new world? I think they exist from being a,
because of a legacy perspective situation, wouldn't anything
else but I do wonder whether that would that would change.
Okay? So yeah, that's that's a sweet.
It's a really, really interesting.
But one of the regular features of this podcast at Craig is that
we get People who are obviously in really interesting and Senior
roles like yourself and people always ask me how do these
people get to that point in their career.
It's not something you kind of can plan I guess right?
From the outset and say look I want to be the president of
Tetra Tech by 2022. Or you know, it, I guess there
are kind of decisions that you make along the way they've
gotten to that point. I wonder if you could tell us a
bit about your journey, how you discovered the project
profession and some of those early Career decisions that you
made, which were may be pivotal to getting you to this Stellar
position that you're in now. Yes, thank you definitely not a
plan although I'm pleased with the outcome.
I'm pleased with the way that things have worked their way
through. But like many of us at senior
levels in our profession, I've had a diverse journey to my
current role started. My career in a private practice
SME which vary between 25 and 40 people private partnership.
And I spent the first 15 years of my career in there and it'll
pass As sort of operations director for that business.
But you know, I started as a trainee qsr at the age of 19
before, also qualifying as a chartered building surveyor and
going it alone with my own private practice for a while for
personal reasons. I then spent a few years working
in technical management within the charitable sector something.
I wanted to do for the greater good.
But then join the world of big multi-service consultancy around
about Years ago, it's 20 years, in January, actually my work
over those 20 years, has involved a diverse combination
of projects and business management of major projects and
programs across multiple. Sectors are really interesting
range of things that I've done and I managed to progress my
career. Sort of year-on-year through
that to the role that I'm currently doing when Tetra Tech
was acquired acquired wi Gene, 2019.
I was part of the senior. Bishop team that came across
with W YG and I fitted the model of operational leadership within
Tetra Tech. You know, I'd come through
various grades. I joined a senior level and that
work my way through to managing director and that fitted the
model of operational leadership that we have in Tetra Tech
around the globe. I understand what we deliver and
therefore sort of fulfill the role of both CEO and so a CO o
in being close to what we actually operate, what we
deliver So and when test check acquired in 2019, I became Great
Britain MD in 2020 and became UK president in 2021.
Well, it's a very inspiring story and I'm sure I'm sure
people will take a lot away from that.
And you've led me nicely on Craig to talk about leadership
because one iíve been involved in this profession now for only
about 15 months. And one of the misconceptions
that I hear from those, Outside of the profession is they say
but you know projects isn't that just good leadership?
You know is that not all? You need to lead a project good
leadership so I'm interested to know how you would Define good
project leadership. And do you think there's any
difference between the kind of leadership qualities required
for project leadership? And those required of leaders
can have more broadly Yeah, I've always seen the good project
leaders have the same credentials as good leaders or
Business Leaders and we promote and support people that, you
know, show that strong project leadership.
And therefore they, they can become Business Leaders in our
business, because there are obvious synergies in skill, set
around EQ, which mentioned previously rather than purely
IQ. You know, everybody in our
business has a strong IQ, but at two different levels, different
Disciplines the EQ becomes more important in that business
leadership but the key requirements I see around good
project leadership are the ability to manage complex
working and organizational environments mainly around that
you know the need to require the management of change is the key
element and that's what I look for in a good project leader its
Association for project management.
We know your most important project is your career but As a
project manager, it's not always easy to make project me happen.
That's where our membership can help.
We offer exclusive training qualifications and learning
resources to keep your development on track.
Join our 35,000 members and become part of the only charted
membership body for the project profession.
Open up your future AT AP, m dot org.uk.
Right so tractor check the significant size and scale of
operation that you're running and one of the challenges of
that of course is how you remain kind of nimble and adaptive
particularly when the world is changing Pace.
If anything in the past few years of accelerated, the pace
of change of the kind of operating environment and the
trends and so on, how does Tetra Tech can have make sure that it
stays ahead of the curve and and ready to embrace.
That the water changes. As as operational leaders in our
business, we all understand the importance of delivering quality
products to our clients. That's our starting premise,
that's what we're about as a business.
And that means that we are in touch with what is required and
what is changing. We are encouraged to continue
our personal development through coaching and training.
The pandemic was new for all of us, but as a business, we were
able to show our ability and Agility and making fast-moving
decisions that benefit. Fitted, our clients and our
colleagues. And since then the pace of
change, hasn't slowed down, it continues to accelerate.
We have a shortage of skills in some of our areas of work.
So, you know, we've looked to bring in industry-leading
flexible and agile, working Arrangements, parenting and
carers support menopause policies and many other ways of
solving that challenge to make as the employer of choice.
So we've had to move quickly to get people who want to come
into. Business for a career, not just
not just a job. So we keep people long-term.
It is a challenging environment, geopolitics and UK politics are
challenging at the moment. But we look to ensure that we
are always looking forward. We spend the time to do that
investing in the right areas, which is predominately our
people and positively reacting to the changes required and the
the key kind of take away from me.
And all of that is you're being really proactive as an
organization. That's what it sounds like.
It's the rather than waiting for things to happen.
You're really kind of pushing the boundaries, so what can we
do to to make sure we're ahead of the game with this and that
sounds brilliant? One of the things I hear when I
talk to are in a 500-plus corporate Partners, but we're
almost without exception, actually, is that there's a kind
of War on Talent happening at the moment that, you know, there
just aren't enough project management professionals out
there to meet the scale of demand for project delivery.
That exists. And, you know, I think you were
talking about 22,000 employees that are in your organization
and I wondered if you might say a little bit about how you, how
you go about recruiting, really high-quality talented, in that
kind of environment. Yeah, yeah.
Simply by concentrating on the Simplicity of our outwardly
complex business. So when I describe what we did,
it sounds really complex but everything we do revolves around
delivering projects that solve our clients problems.
And to do that, we need great well-qualified project managers
alongside technical colleagues. So we look to work on the best
and most exciting projects that are aligned to our corporate.
Goals, we're continually looking to diversify that portfolio of
Works to ensure RPMs can experience breadth and depth of
experience across many sectors and that attracts and retains
them in our business. Alongside that we have
engagement across industry through the a p.m. through
universities schools and other associations to drive interest
interest and showcase Tetra Tech and the opportunities that we
have we're engaged through industry at events.
Thought leadership, but the best outcome of all is ensuring.
We deliver good. High-quality work, delivering
valuable outcomes, which increases our reputation, that's
how we will make sure that we ensure that pipeline of p.m.
Talent, you know, that makes sense.
And you kind of reference a little bit there about the kind
of development aspect of that one's that one's the project
managers are with you. You're obviously in in the
business of Kenneth multiple professions so you've got the
project management profession you.
And CIO be earlier on, you've obviously got you know,
technical people in terms of the engineering space and
architecture space and everything else.
I mean how do you how do you balance the kind of development
of so many different areas and in particular?
What are your expectations as an organization for the kinds of
qualifications and skills that your your colleagues need to
have a different point through their Journey?
Yeah, I think it's recognizing the differences that are
required so Sonia. We do that through targeted and
continued investment in our people.
That the only thing that we have is people, so if we don't invest
in their Mark, you know, our product will go down.
So we recognize that and invest heavily in our people.
Technical Excellence is really important.
Professional development. Underpins our people strategy,
we have a series of technical development, roadmaps built.
So each one of us Twenty-seven disciplines.
And this provides a clear demarcated route through the
grades, within our business aligned to professional bodies,
qualifications and a path to Charter ship and fellowship.
We have a business focused on strong project management.
Every one of our colleagues in all disciplines has a base level
of project management training and those responsible for
leading projects have what we call level to project management
training. That they undertake on a block.
Release course delivered by dr. Bill Brownlee are the chief
engineer along with other members of our UK Senior Team.
That's brilliant. I my, I look forward to the day
when we have youngsters who are not even in the profession yet.
And you know what I do for my career, what I really want to do
is to become a chartered project professional in the same way,
they would further chartered professions.
I think they'll be great when that happens.
But and talking about Young people.
Of course there will be those who are either.
Just just just left school and thinking about what they want to
do or those who are career Changers, maybe and really
thinking about whether the project profession is a
profession for them and going on that kind of career journey.
And what advice would you give for somebody who is thinking
about the profession and whether it's right for them?
Yeah, it's a really interesting question.
Adam and young people. Aspire to be part of what they
were where they work and where they want to be.
And having started as a trainee myself, the equivalent, today's
apprentices I didn't really know where my career would take me.
So my advice to anybody entering our profession would be choose
the right path, but be flexible along the way that certainly
helped me. Always be honest and take
support. That is off.
Offered, you will be offered support along the way, make use
of that. People that have been there and
done it. You can take things from them,
work for an organization that shares your values and I think
the youngsters today, get that more than I did 30 odd years
ago, I think they want an organization that shares their
values that will make you happier at work and then talk
about sort of qualifications, you know I joined at 19 I follow
through on commitments and qualifications.
Aim to be a chartered professional.
I think that, you know, that is the ultimate place in our
industry where we want people to be.
I undertook a lot of my professional qualifications
whilst an employment and on although it was tough at the
time, I've always felt the value of doing that.
So work hard, but be flexible and make the most of the
opportunities as they come along.
Some excellent advice that and I really like the dimension of
apprenticeships there, as well. Because I think sometimes,
Oppressed people not everybody's understood that apprenticeships
now are not the same as what an apprenticeship was 10 years ago.
It's very, very different now and it is a genuine alternative.
I think an alternative pathway into the profession in a way
that didn't exist before. So I'm really pleased that you
mentioned that great. So thank you for that, you know,
talking back in the past and present that, you know, be it,
the project manager role, you know, has changed a lot if I
think about 50 years ago. Go to today and I just wondered
what you thought the most important skills and traits for
a modern project manager. Yeah, I think it's a difficult
combination to be a really great project manager.
It's a combination of great organizational skills but
aligned with agility skills that are not always compatible with
in people. But the best project managers
exhibit that you know a good project manager structured, but
able to flex and a key element also is inability to manage the
many different stakeholders that you get on a major project.
Yeah, you know, Noah says it comes back to your complexity
Point again, doesn't it? You know the so many moving
parts now, it's it's not just the simple kind of, you know,
start to finish it. It does at the second of
bandwidth that's needed almost to, to take on some of these
roles. But what about it Edie?
And I so equality, diversity and inclusion.
You've kind of referenced it several times to our
conversation today in terms of some of the work you've been
Internally. But I wanted for my to
specifically talk about the the representation of women and
minorities within the project Workforce because some of the
sectors that traditionally associated with the project
profession have been quite male dominated and not necessarily
ethnically diverse either. I think that is changing but I
wonder how Tetra Tech was approaching that that challenge
Yeah, so I mentioned when we're talking about young people about
being aligned with the values of a business and that was one of
the things that I noticed when I first came into Tetra Tech is
that they are very strong in. We refer to it as D and I Dia
and so globally. We have a deai council with
various employee resource groups to support women minorities in
our business. Because we want to have, as
Versus a Workforce as we can to get the benefit as a business to
have the best people possible that we can have that deliver
our leading, the science approach.
So we've created a ERG groups for a send for our pan-Asian
colleagues, believe the black colleagues.
We've got our professional women's Network, we've got acute
for veterans. That would that we have a strong
element in our business, we have Tetra.
Pride, we have voice Is for Latino and Hispanic colleagues.
And our latest Global glue group with a disability Focus, which
we haven't named yet and it will have a name in time and I'm
involved in the the launching of that on a global basis.
And and within the UK, we have our own EDI team with subsets of
the main ERG. And we have chairs of those
groups that feed into the Global Group and they oversee a breadth
of initiatives and awareness sessions within our UK
operation. We've set ourselves, a target of
25% representation by 2025, across all areas of our
business, we have diverse panels for decision-making in
Recruitment and c-suite decisions are made via the DIY
panel when whenever we can really but whenever necessary.
So, you know, as I say, I talked about aligning values with who
you work for, you know, our commitment to EDI absolutely
aligned in my own values and the commercial value that we get is
Diverse Workforce, who can all be safe to be their best selves
at work. Not that sounds brilliant.
One of the things I've been picking up on, is this shift
cultural shift? I suppose at described it as
which is, yes, inclusion is great, but belonging is better
and, and that sense of how do we move kind of on from having
strategies and so on to help people feel included in the
workplace actually help, what, help helping people to feel that
they They belong there and I think that's a really welcome
next stage in that kind of inclusion Journey.
If I think of it in that way, I don't do that.
Then if that's something you've heard anything about before.
Yeah. Absolutely resonates.
I've noted that I like the term belonging.
That's exactly what we're looking for for people within
our business. Yeah, I mean I can't claim the
credit for it myself, Craig. It's something I've been hearing
about myself and about I think it's actually something that's
coming from the states. The u.s.
In terms of in terms of the the language there but also the
concept and I think it's a really helpful okay and final
part of our discussion now really but it really interested
to know a little bit more about the growing importance of data
analytics and artificial intelligence because that
transparency of Supply chains and how data is used
particularly at senior levels to make strategic decisions on what
are quite complex. And Abroad problems from, you
know project sorry from what you've talked about.
I'm just interested to know how Tetra Tech's use of data is
changing given the kind of growing role of AI.
Yeah, day trying to lytx is extremely important to senior
level decision-making. Absolutely fundamental.
It allows decision makers like myself to review live up to date
project data, analyze performance across, various kpis
and make informed decisions to assist our people projects.
And clients data is allowing us to see the ability to make
intervention sooner on Troublesome issues and Allowing
them to propagate and cause delay which in turn leads to
overspend or or other issues on a project relationship issues on
a project data analytics and AI is allowing us to digitize our
systems building tools and processes that drive
efficiencies for our people doing things quicker and in turn
driving, better margins for our projects, making us more
competitive and allowing our clients to deliver more
affordably. So passing that down through
clients with intent, Attack. We have a suite of Technologies
under our Banner of Tetra Tech Delta.
The premise behind this is implementing a global digital
differentiation strategy for our services to move as ahead of
others in our industry, in the markets that we choose to work
in. No, no that's excellent.
And we haven't actually having a conversation with somebody
yesterday about the importance of empathy for project
professionals and you You referred to it earlier on when
you were talking about the kind of EQ side of things and there
is no came up in the context of artificial intelligence as
people were saying look it doesn't matter how good a I get
it's never going to be as good as humans are as empathy which
you know it's probably a point for debate but by the point that
was being made there was, you know we're always going to need
really high quality people to accompany whatever AI or data
that we've got and empathy. Is just one aspect of that which
I thought was really interesting observation.
Yeah, fully agree. Okay.
Well look, I think that brings us to the end of our discussion.
Craig, I've really enjoyed the discussion and I hope those
listening of got some good insights now into into Tetra
Tech. I've certainly learned a lot.
So, you know, thank you very much for giving up your time
this morning and thank you to all of the project Professionals
in your organization who are doing such a great job.
As you, as you say to help those 1 billion people.
Really benefit from projects and thank you crave for today.
Thank you. Adam been a pleasure.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the APM podcast.
If you have any feedback or suggestions for topics, you'd
like to hear us discuss in the podcast, get in touch at a p.m.
podcast at think publishing. .Co.uk OPM, is the charter body
for the project profession. For more information visit a
p.m. Dot org.uk