Hello and welcome to the APM podcast brought to you by the
chartered body for the project profession.
My name is Mike Hein and I'm the online editor of apm's project
journal, and I'll be hosting today's episode.
In 2020 to our podcast guests have shared their advice and
experiences on everything from putting telescopes into space to
discovering sunken ships at the bottom of the Antarctic.
Sea, As the year, draws to a close, we thought it would be
worthwhile taking a look back at some of the lessons we have
learned in 2022. So in this episode will be
collating some of our favorite highlights from episodes.
You may have missed earlier in the year, we've got insights
from NASA, a former cabinet minister, and a BBC television
presenter to share with you proof, If ever it was needed
that the reach of projects and project management grows ever
wider. Before we kick off, we'd like to
give a shout-out to you the listeners, thank you for your
continued support throughout 2022, will be back in the new
year, with much more content. So keep your eye out for future
episodes wherever you get your podcasts.
So, without further Ado, let's take a look back at some of the
highlights of an action-packed 2022.
One consistent theme within project management is change and
how to bring people with you as a project leader.
In June, we published a podcast about the people side of change
management, which featured Joe Stanford head of corporate
portfolio office at health, education.
England. As well as discussing the
importance of role modeling and psychological safety Joe.
Shared her advice on how to get buy-in from stakeholders to make
change happen and explain why it is critical to start with, why
it really all needs to be underpinned with?
Why are we doing it? And people will buy into a
process, they won't buy into a, you know, a financial element or
a particular, you know, way of doing.
Doing something, you know, say, oh well, we need to do this
differently. What they buy into is a sense of
purpose, they buy into a cause, or a belief or a sense of
belonging. And, and so, the starting point
with yourself and with your team is, why, why are you doing this?
What's what's the purpose of it? What's the aim of it?
What is it that you are going to achieve?
Because people people will rally to a Was and I say yes, that's
something. I believe in that something, and
it's an emotional response. It's something a personal.
And, and when you're starting out with this, you've got to
have a really clear sense of why.
Why is it important? Why is it going to make a
difference? What's the the impact?
It's going to have both on the world on your customer base or
what's the value to them and to you and doing it by setting the
wire you You can bring people together to help to shape the
how and the what and if you've got that ultimately that keeps
you connected that, you have that ultimate cause that we're
going to work on this. This is a really important
thing. This is why it helps you get
past the individual conflicts that you might have where people
are, wedded, pursue particular ways of working or particular,
you know, what they want to do or particular ideas because if
Can bring people back to the thing that joined them together
in the first place, which is the, why are we doing this?
It helps to get beyond the individual and keep people
focused and therefore it becomes not a personal thing.
If your particular idea isn't followed or that particular way
of working isn't going to be the one that we take.
If you keep people focused on the Y and then you set your
measures and outcomes linked to that, why?
And how do we Ino. We've achieved that that's the
thing for me that is really critical in terms of setting the
team up to start with the Team Dynamics.
But also they're going to go out with conviction and with passion
and with purpose when they talk to stakeholders and customers
and the ends of users and they're going to take that
passion and and commitments and in going to infect others with
it, they're going to infuse that and that's what gets people to
join in. That's what gets people.
To go on the journey is that sense of of belief and belonging
and wanting to be a part of something.
Many of us have just celebrated Christmas 2022.
But last year December, the 25th is a particularly exciting day
for scientists engineers and project professionals at Nasa,
due to the long-awaited launch of the James Webb Space
Telescope. The telescope gives Humanity, a
new eye in the sky with infrared sensors, that will peer into the
farthest reaches of the cosmos to observe.
The universe is first galaxies reveal the birth of planets and
stars and look for exoplanets with the potential for life.
Back in March the podcast, spoke to Bill Oaks project manager for
the James Webb Space Telescope who is based at NASA's Goddard
space flight center in Maryland USA.
As well as giving us a behind the scenes.
Look at what it takes to lead a team at Nasa.
Bill shared his perspective and what makes a great project
manager and gave advice on how to handle complex projects.
Will you talk about project management?
Every project manager, whether you're within NASA or wherever
you're probably working, you kind of have your own style and
technique. And one of the things you need
to do is to understand within that style and technique your
strengths and weaknesses. There's none of us are perfect.
So I cannot sit there and tell you I'm the perfect project
manager. I got strengths across
everything you need to need to recognize where your weaknesses
are and then build upon it, you know?
I was a good engineer, and notice how I said was there are
many project managers who thinks they're still the best engineer
out there and then that takes away from your management skills
and your ability to be a project manager.
So, I learned a lot about, you know, you need to be a listen to
people. I always tell folks.
One of the number one things I say is you need to have a
bartender's ear. Mark, on your listens, your you
are the chief. Chief risk mitigation person on
the project. I mean, you may have Risk
Managers and other Engineers but you are the one that makes those
decisions at some point. What advice would you give to
project? Managers of project leaders,
around a hill, working on complex projects?
What have been the main lessons? You've learned working on
Project like this. Oh, we're closely with your
team, you know, communication aspects of it.
Listen to your team, find the folks that you really trust.
I mean, you need to be able to trust the folks that are working
for you. Direct that you are your direct.
Works and you build that just by communicating with them and
trusting this the skill set that I have, but that also comes down
to understanding the skills that they have.
Not everybody is perfect for every job.
If you find that somebody has been misplaced in a position, it
doesn't mean you have to get rid of Martha project.
You may say, hey, there's something over here, the better
suited for your skill set, get him involved with that, get them
interested in that. And then you bring the another
person into that job that may have the more The better skill
set for that position. And that's one of the things
I've talked about The Forecastle times.
You start out with a project organization but as you move
through the life, cycle of a project, you're going to need
the tweak that organization depending upon where you are in
that life cycle. So we're sure you have the
right, people in the right jobs that you have the right
organizational structure for that phase of the project.
So that's always important from a project managed to kind of
maybe once a year. Take a look at where you are
with your organization and do. I need to make any changes from
a Structure standpoint or moving some folks around to really take
advantage of their skill sets. Moving from the world of science
and technology to the UK public sector.
Our next podcast highlight comes from the conversation between
former cabinet minister. The right honourable Justine
Greening and a p.m. chief executive Professor, Adam
bothersome Justine shared her experience as a senior minister
in several government departments and reflected on how
well understood, the project profession is within the higher
ranks of the Civil Service. Since leaving government Justine
has continued to be a strong advocate for social mobility and
her podcast interview explored. How the project profession fits
into the goal of increasing social mobility in the UK.
We highly recommend. You check out that episode in
Full Do you think politicians and civil servants know enough
about the project profession and evaluate can add to their
careers? Not even remotely enough?
No, it's crucial, because you've got to bear in mind for our
democratic system. You know, it works by having
people elected and they are as it were lay people, they
probably got a special ISM in some kind of very they worked in
before Parliament, but then they're put into running
departments and so, you know, often the challenge.
Has you are literally running those departments.
And yet I was lucky in the sense that I'd worked in some bigger
larger organizations as a finance person, I guess if
you're in finance or project management you probably
relatively numerator and you know what you're looking for in
terms of how to check if things are on track and what management
information you need. And I think there's a bit of a
gap there. Definitely for politicians on
the nuts and bolts of their own skill set.
Order to be successful. And then, I guess, within the
Civil Service, the the sort of sexy part of civil service has
been all the policy development when actually increasingly it
really needs to shift to be much more who's great at delivering
projects on the ground successfully because there's no
point having the best policy in the world.
If you can't deliver it, then it won't come to anything.
We've got some a p.m. members of course, who will be in some of
those departments which are a bit behind the curve.
Of, what advice would you give to them in terms of how they
could help to shift the dial within their own Department?
I think, I think it's having the consistent approach across
departments on project development and delivery and and
speaking with one voice. So for example, I think the
government Finance organization across government, had
increasingly, learn to work collectively and did work.
Collectively on what good look like, what good process look
like. How to develop business cases.
And, you know, it might all sound a bit Bonkers.
You know, of course, you'd expect government and civil
service, departments, to develop strong business cases, but that
isn't always the case. And as you said, Adams, some
departments are better than others.
I would actually say the best is best business cases I had were,
when I was at the department for International Development,
mainly because there was so much scrutiny on every single penny
of spend actually that had led to The department really kicking
the tires on absolutely everything before it was ever
signed off. By contrast when I went into
education, you know, much less business case development per
se. But a real need for it.
Because if you're going to compete, for example, with the
department for transport on investment saying, pupil
referral units, and you want that investment and you're
making the case, it should go into that rather than Fixing
more potholes, then you do need a business case approach, that's
really bolted down and it's what I always expected to see as a
finance person and if you don't have that business case and this
is what we really did in differed, you haven't really
ever got that parameter that that kind of game plan against
which to then compare progress and you know it's absolutely
crucial. If you're going to have strong
project management that the project itself is obviously
spect up. Well at the very very Very
beginning. We are always looking to
interview guests, who can provide a fresh perspective on
the world of projects and project management.
So, we were delighted this year to secure an interview with
veteran journalist. Evan, Davis presenter of BBC
fours, daily news program, p.m., and former main presenter of
news night and the today, programme Evan is also well
known as the presenter of Dragons Den.
And on radio for he hosts a weekly business discussion
program called the bottom line in his podcast.
Interview. Evan gave an informed outsider's
perspective on the importance of projects to the economic
political and cultural life of a country.
He is talking about how major projects are perceived and the
reputation of the profession among the general public.
I think we should demand of the people planning projects that
they have a high bar for public value.
That we do not want to waste construction, scarce
construction, resources, public money, and the design, and other
capabilities of our country on white elephants.
So we should be demanding and, and that means cost benefit
analyses and all the conventional tools of, you know,
Raisa. Love projects are absolutely
important to society. Can't give up on those.
And the treasury is right to say to people we're not just going
to throw money at stuff, because it looks great.
And they're like, we need to have some vision for the shape
of the nation and sometimes the cost benefit analysis adding up
the time Savings of the, the kind of the existing customers
on a train. For example, may not capture the
benefits of something, a hundred years hence or 50 years.
Hence, I think you, you have to be careful about being to
accountants. Focused on it.
He's project managers are fully understood and fully appreciated
in this country, or do you think they just get it in the neck?
No I don't think project managers have a bad image.
I don't think the public have a very clear idea project
managers. I think what happens is the
public gets annoyed when they see crossrail was meant to open
in 2018 and is opening 2022. And so that's that the - but The
truth is the public Swoon over some of the great achievements
of the project managers and they love it when they go.
Right. And I think what you really see
out there is a kind of a complex amalgam of different feelings
and Views projects, we hate it. When they're being built and
there's disruption we love it. When we walk through the Swanky
new Railway stapling or travel on the fancy new train.
So I broadly speaking, I I don't think they do have a bad image
project managers. And in, as far as it's a
complicated Love/Hate relationship, as I think it is,
I think probably deserved, you know, the public, the public are
entitled to say. You said this would be delivered
and it wasn't. And, and we were a bit fed up
with that. One major story from this year
with the long delayed opening of London's Elizabeth line,
otherwise known as crossrail. As one of the largest
Transportation programs anywhere in the world, crossrail had a
high profile from the outset but often found itself in the
headlines for the wrong reasons. Mark wild took over as CEO in
2018 as a time of Highly publicized budget and deadline
overruns but successfully steered the program to its much
celebrated opening this year before stepping down.
Having successfully turned around such a complex and
fraught program. Mark was ideally placed to tell
the APM podcast, why he thinks so many major programs are late
and over budget. Here he is talking to project
Journal. Contributor Andrew Saunders.
Is it inevitable that big projects are always be late and
over budget contemporary perspective?
If you look at the research from Oxford, particularly you will
find that. Yes, the vast majority of major
programs run the world. Are they doing over budget?
I think three big things are happening in the world now that
are really significant in major programs.
Firstly, the getting bigger cross real used to be the
biggest in Europe, and the fifth biggest in the world now.
Cross real wouldn't get in the top 10 globally and it wouldn't
get The top three in Europe, so projects, getting bigger, there
is a massive rise of digitization massively.
And of course, there's a huge drive to NetZero.
Now. To me, those Dynamics on top of
a situation that you've pointed out that they're all laid
anywhere, really calls to change about how you manage these
programs because I think they are so big and complex.
Now, a new approach that the kind of the big learning, which
we can get onto out across for others.
Maybe he's in your approach, but to your point, yeah, every major
A program in the world seems to have problems.
Fundamental lesson across. Rome was setting a singular end
date and quite a visible Public Funding envelope.
They said December 18 and fourteen point eight billion
years in advance and made that very very public.
The big learning Ida crossrail is do not set singular, and
dates and mmm love. Think about more windows of
uncertainty. That concludes our Roundup of
the year's highlights, but of course, there are many more
powerful lessons for project Professionals in our back,
catalog of podcasts. So, why not go back and have a
listen over this festive? Period.
We also want to hear your stories.
What did you learn in 2022 and what goals and challenges are
you anticipating in 2023, we're always Keen to hear your
thoughts at a p.m. podcast at think publishing .co.uk.
If you've enjoyed the content, we put out this year, please
leave us a review wherever you, get your podcasts.
Thank you for your continued support and we look forward to
bringing you more episodes in 2023.
This podcast has been brought to you by APM the chartered body
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