1 00:00:13,700 --> 00:00:16,900 Welcome to the OPM podcast. APM is the charter body for the 2 00:00:16,900 --> 00:00:19,500 project profession. My name is Emma divita and I'm 3 00:00:19,500 --> 00:00:21,600 editor of projects, opm's quarterly journal. 4 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,400 And your host today, I've invited three senior leaders 5 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,500 from the world of projects who also contributed to apm's women 6 00:00:28,500 --> 00:00:30,200 in project management conference. 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,100 This year I have with me some awesome director transformation 8 00:00:34,100 --> 00:00:37,800 that department of work and pensions Sharon Parker Brannon 9 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,400 head of project at sellafield limited and a still don't 10 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,100 remember associate director. Eject controls at Macy's, also 11 00:00:45,100 --> 00:00:49,200 chair opm's risk Sig, so brilliant without the conference 12 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:50,700 that we wanted to ask him to do this. 13 00:00:50,700 --> 00:00:54,300 Follow up Podcast for all of you who missed our exit and honest 14 00:00:54,300 --> 00:00:58,200 showroom experience, which I hope will not only help and 15 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,200 Inspire those starting out in mid career but also be a source 16 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,700 of wise, advice for those women listening, who are aiming to get 17 00:01:04,700 --> 00:01:06,500 to the very top of the profession. 18 00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:11,900 So Sam, Sharon is still welcome morning morning. 19 00:01:11,900 --> 00:01:15,000 Good morning. Her joining us. 20 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,100 And I think if we could begin perhaps with a brief 21 00:01:19,100 --> 00:01:22,500 introduction from each of you about, who you are, what you do. 22 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:24,700 So perhaps, I'm could we go with you? 23 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:27,000 Absolutely. Hi. 24 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,500 Good morning, everybody. I'm Sam, Olson. 25 00:01:29,500 --> 00:01:33,000 I'm currently director of workplace transformation at the 26 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,500 department of work and pensions. I've been a civil servant now 27 00:01:37,500 --> 00:01:41,200 for nearly 10 years. So, I've been a mixture of 28 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,300 program leadership across the private. 29 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,200 Inspector at version Atlantic and now at within the Civil 30 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:49,800 Service. Okay, thanks Sharon. 31 00:01:51,100 --> 00:01:54,500 I'm Sharon Parker Brannon I'm ahead of project at sellafield 32 00:01:54,500 --> 00:01:57,600 limited. What does that entail on a daily 33 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:00,900 basis? It entails identifying projects 34 00:02:00,900 --> 00:02:05,100 that need to be delivered. Scorpion I'm out getting all of 35 00:02:05,100 --> 00:02:09,600 the approval and Assurance or that which he's quite a 36 00:02:09,699 --> 00:02:12,600 strategically. Lengthy process to go through in 37 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,300 my industry and then actually hardcore delivery on site. 38 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,800 So that may be building new decommissioning taking down all 39 00:02:22,500 --> 00:02:25,400 And that's my dado. Thank you. 40 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,100 And this fellow. Hi everyone. 41 00:02:28,100 --> 00:02:32,600 So my name is Delta table. I've got over 20 years of 42 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,800 experience in working with project and driving initiative, 43 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,400 predominantly with the area of environment and Technology 44 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,000 required. All my experience, especially 45 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,400 for the past decade on multi-billion pound project 46 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:54,200 infrastructure. And basically, yes a I like, you 47 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,500 know, to empower and inspired individual because I believe 48 00:02:57,500 --> 00:03:00,600 that well, we all are capable of incredible things. 49 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,300 Okay. Thanks and it might be useful 50 00:03:03,300 --> 00:03:05,900 for listens actually if each of you could give a short 51 00:03:06,100 --> 00:03:10,500 explanation of how you've got to weigh our sound, you want to 52 00:03:10,508 --> 00:03:13,000 give us a brief outline of your kind of career Journey. 53 00:03:14,700 --> 00:03:18,200 I can do I think all that affect thick is? 54 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,400 But the best description of my career Journey. 55 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,800 I'm very much started out with my math degree from University. 56 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,100 Not knowing what I wanted to do when I grow up I'm not sure I 57 00:03:29,100 --> 00:03:34,400 still do I'm completely on this but I did leave University as 58 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,900 somebody reminded me of few years ago with a very clear 59 00:03:37,900 --> 00:03:42,200 journey in mind that was about gaining commercial experience to 60 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:46,300 use of public sector. Good Which is how my career has 61 00:03:46,300 --> 00:03:50,600 evolved. So I spent 10 years at Virgin 62 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:55,700 Atlantic doing an array of sales and Commercial jobs which then 63 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,100 meant I found myself running overseas markets and setting up 64 00:03:59,100 --> 00:04:03,700 an airline in West Africa called virgin Nigeria and that was my 65 00:04:03,700 --> 00:04:08,000 first opportunity to lead a huge program of work for an 66 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,600 organization. It was quite a few years ago now 67 00:04:11,900 --> 00:04:15,200 and it was before any sort of formal Qualification. 68 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:19,100 I had a couple of really good strong project managers who ran 69 00:04:19,100 --> 00:04:24,300 my p.m. a for me, but I got such a personal passion and drive 70 00:04:24,300 --> 00:04:27,500 from seeing the delivery of something, I realized that it 71 00:04:27,500 --> 00:04:30,300 was something that was going to become part of my career moving 72 00:04:30,300 --> 00:04:34,500 forward. I then for personal reasons, had 73 00:04:34,500 --> 00:04:39,600 a family decided that when her life jumping on knock planes and 74 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,800 thoughts that really, it was time to think about that public 75 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:43,500 sector. Good. 76 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:48,600 So I Except for a couple of charity for a few years, helping 77 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,700 them build new Services, children's homes, and leaving 78 00:04:51,700 --> 00:04:55,300 care services and found myself quite frustrated by this stuff 79 00:04:55,300 --> 00:05:00,600 called policy legislation. Guidance off said, all the stuff 80 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,300 that Sharon completely be used to in her world. 81 00:05:04,300 --> 00:05:05,900 I thought. Well, if I'm going to understand 82 00:05:05,900 --> 00:05:09,300 how I can make an impact in this space, I need to understand how 83 00:05:09,300 --> 00:05:11,400 it all works. And that's how I found myself in 84 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,100 the civil service where I really have to ask. 85 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,500 Ask myself what I was bringing to the Civil Service because I 86 00:05:17,500 --> 00:05:19,800 was coming with a commercial background as opposed to 87 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:24,200 experience within the public sector and realized that 88 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:26,600 actually what I was bringing with commercial program 89 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,600 leadership and that was what I was bringing into the Civil 90 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:31,500 Service. It was what makes me as a leader 91 00:05:31,500 --> 00:05:35,800 unique in comparison to those who've got far, more experience 92 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,400 of whitehall's and I have. And that's where my journey into 93 00:05:40,700 --> 00:05:43,300 program leadership started as since then. 94 00:05:43,300 --> 00:05:48,300 I've Reading for major government projects and I know 95 00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:52,400 do quite a lot to support women and people with dyslexia in the 96 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:57,600 profession, I wanted to ask you about the different mindsets 97 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,600 between working in commercial sort of sector in the civil 98 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,600 service sector is that is that true? 99 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,800 Because many project professionals have the chance to 100 00:06:07,808 --> 00:06:11,400 do what you've done, which is to flip between Industries between 101 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,100 sectors. Is how different is it? 102 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,600 It working for the Civil Service that was working for a 103 00:06:16,608 --> 00:06:20,500 commercial organization. They regulate land. 104 00:06:20,500 --> 00:06:23,800 Take remember we met showing the Virgin group has the customer at 105 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:29,400 its core and and that is very much a driver but it is still a 106 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:34,100 driver for profit and I think that is the big mind mind shift 107 00:06:34,100 --> 00:06:36,900 that you have to have when you come out of the commercial 108 00:06:36,900 --> 00:06:40,200 sector and move into the public sector. 109 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,200 That driving point of your, they're either about growing the 110 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,100 revenue line or about increasing profitability. 111 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,700 That's not what the public. Try out, you know, in the public 112 00:06:50,700 --> 00:06:53,300 sector, you're talking about value for money and you're 113 00:06:53,300 --> 00:06:56,800 delivering for Citizens. And in all the roles, I sent a 114 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,900 very much about delivering for very vulnerable citizens. 115 00:07:01,300 --> 00:07:07,000 The other mindset shift is the sheer scale and complexity of 116 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,900 what I have done in the public sector is so very, very 117 00:07:10,900 --> 00:07:12,900 different. Now I thought Virgin Atlantic 118 00:07:12,900 --> 00:07:17,400 was big I mean nothing in comparison to the size of just 119 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,500 DWP and Actually, whenever you're doing something in the 120 00:07:20,500 --> 00:07:24,500 public sector is never just in your department, it interacts 121 00:07:24,500 --> 00:07:27,500 with a number of other different departments. 122 00:07:27,900 --> 00:07:30,300 If you're working with vulnerable people, they touched 123 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,200 on average about four different government departments. 124 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,000 So that complexity of the operating environment, I would 125 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,300 say is the other big shift, that's what you enjoy. 126 00:07:40,300 --> 00:07:42,100 Is that something to you? You enjoy getting your teeth 127 00:07:42,100 --> 00:07:45,300 into. I do, you know, it can take, it 128 00:07:45,300 --> 00:07:48,300 means that it takes longer to get things done, you know, I 129 00:07:48,300 --> 00:07:51,900 often say Like when people say why do projects take so long in 130 00:07:51,900 --> 00:07:56,000 central government democracy literally gets in the way but 131 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,900 having worked in countries where there isn't a democratic 132 00:07:58,900 --> 00:08:03,100 process, isn't it? Fantastic that we get Moxie in 133 00:08:03,100 --> 00:08:05,500 the way. It's such a privilege to live in 134 00:08:05,500 --> 00:08:10,100 a country that is so Democratic. But the reality is that 135 00:08:10,100 --> 00:08:14,100 democracy can often slow down, large government major projects 136 00:08:14,100 --> 00:08:17,400 because things happen, you know, elections happen, changing 137 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:19,700 parliament's happen. Changing, Ministers happens 138 00:08:19,700 --> 00:08:23,700 quite regularly to all these things mean that you have to on 139 00:08:23,700 --> 00:08:27,100 government major projects. Just initial that you are still 140 00:08:27,100 --> 00:08:29,600 in line with what the government of the day. 141 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:31,700 It's looking for. Okay, thanks, Sam. 142 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,500 And Sharon. How did you get to where you 143 00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:39,400 are? So I started working at 144 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:45,100 sellafield at the age of 17 leaving school knowing that I 145 00:08:45,100 --> 00:08:48,100 didn't want to go to university for a number of reasons. 146 00:08:48,300 --> 00:08:54,000 So I wanted a pay packet in my jean pocket to spend every 147 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:59,100 weekend. So I joined sellafield 17 as an 148 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:05,100 business environment. Finance Apprentice training, I 149 00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:08,300 spent Ten years in business and finance work. 150 00:09:08,300 --> 00:09:13,800 Tomorrow you to be business manager, doing some quite 151 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:17,500 transformational change Improvement, things with regards 152 00:09:17,500 --> 00:09:21,000 to how we run the business from a business and financial point 153 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:25,500 of view and then I got bored. So I don't eat for a year 154 00:09:26,100 --> 00:09:28,000 ensured. It was embedded for a year and 155 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,100 then I was like, I'm bored. I don't wanna do this anymore. 156 00:09:31,300 --> 00:09:33,400 I've done it to the highest level I can get to. 157 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,300 I don't want to do this for the rest of my life. 158 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,000 So fortunately I had to Fantastic managers at the time. 159 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,100 One that said, I think you'd be fantastic in operations and one 160 00:09:44,100 --> 00:09:48,000 that said, I think you'd be awesome in projects and there, I 161 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,800 was given a year in each to determine where my career was 162 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,400 going in the next phase of it. Don't operations, loved it 163 00:09:56,700 --> 00:09:59,400 didn't, particularly like it that much wasn't that good 164 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,400 really, to be fair, I hadn't I hadn't been brought up off from 165 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:05,400 the shop floor, so it took a lot. 166 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,100 To learn it and understand it, it's complex. 167 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,500 I didn't underestimate that challenge done projects for the 168 00:10:12,500 --> 00:10:17,700 year and absolutely loved it every element of projects. 169 00:10:17,700 --> 00:10:20,900 So that was decision made at that point. 170 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,900 I was, you know, I was at a high level of management in the 171 00:10:23,900 --> 00:10:26,900 organization but realized I needed to learn projects from 172 00:10:26,900 --> 00:10:29,000 the bottom. So went right back. 173 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:32,100 Down the room. Next, to a project engineer to 174 00:10:32,100 --> 00:10:34,500 learn it all from the ground, all the way up. 175 00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:38,800 And then do all the various levels, we do through complex. 176 00:10:38,900 --> 00:10:42,200 T levels at sellafield. So it's based on, you know, 177 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,700 maybe complexity of risk, complexity of size. 178 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,300 Those kind of things work through all of the levels of 179 00:10:48,300 --> 00:10:53,000 complexity to where I am now is head of project like Sam's, you 180 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:57,900 said public sector and it's the only one I've ever experienced 181 00:10:58,100 --> 00:11:00,600 so we're Sons just said about profit. 182 00:11:00,700 --> 00:11:05,000 You know there are sectors are profit-making orientated. 183 00:11:05,300 --> 00:11:08,000 I've never been profit more making orientated. 184 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,300 I've never had that. Pressure on my shoulders from 185 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,400 Project delivery, the pressure I've had on my shoulders is 186 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:18,200 ensuring that I spend every taxpayers money. 187 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:23,300 Wisely. And I spend it as if it's my own 188 00:11:23,300 --> 00:11:26,200 money. So different kind of pressure 189 00:11:26,500 --> 00:11:29,400 but very very conscious pressure all of the time. 190 00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:34,600 In any decision that I make. I said previously, I didn't go 191 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:39,200 to university, I was fortunate enough during work to do my 192 00:11:39,300 --> 00:11:42,500 degree in business and finance funded by work. 193 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,700 They release by work. Exactly. 194 00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:47,200 The same as my Master's for project management. 195 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,100 Funded by work day. Really East by work and it was a 196 00:11:51,108 --> 00:11:54,300 brilliant opportunity and at the period of my life. 197 00:11:54,300 --> 00:11:58,100 When I don't bother those things did release from work was just a 198 00:11:58,100 --> 00:12:02,400 godsend on how to to achieve that Sharon. 199 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:04,500 What do you enjoy most about your job? 200 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:11,800 Bringing the people along with me and I'm not gonna lie, I am a 201 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,900 like to be strong. So I like to achieve, I like to 202 00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:20,500 hit a milestone but bringing the people with me and then helping 203 00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:23,300 me do that is where I get the most enjoyment. 204 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,000 Okay. Great. 205 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:28,700 A stove, you come from a different angle in terms of your 206 00:12:28,700 --> 00:12:33,300 career, can you tell us how what you do now and how you got 207 00:12:33,300 --> 00:12:39,200 there? Yeah, so my kit well I started 208 00:12:39,700 --> 00:12:42,100 in another country so I'm from Belgium. 209 00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:47,900 So I've done my degree back then and I worked for a couple of big 210 00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:51,600 organization like Brunswick and Daimler Chrysler. 211 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,800 So from that I kind of, you know, wanted to change a bit and 212 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:03,900 in and then starting to look through different Horizons and 213 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:10,300 This is where I came along in the UK and my career started. 214 00:13:10,300 --> 00:13:15,400 Basically with crossrail is quite an interesting business, 215 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,400 you know, starting a major infrastructure project, 216 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,400 completely different type of organization where I used to 217 00:13:22,408 --> 00:13:26,600 work with different, different ways of thinking. 218 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:31,700 So I think this is what helped me to move forward. 219 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,900 My degree basically is in marketing. 220 00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:39,400 So when you look at marketing, you looking always at 221 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,600 opportunities, and this is what I think the industry and this 222 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,300 country kind of helped me through. 223 00:13:44,300 --> 00:13:48,100 So, I am move to one level to the other, and, by being 224 00:13:48,100 --> 00:13:51,400 curious, I kind of move through. You know, the different 225 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:57,600 different roles and today, working in Project controls is 226 00:13:57,900 --> 00:14:00,900 giving me again. That opportunity to be curious. 227 00:14:00,900 --> 00:14:06,400 Bring novelty to the Aunt, especially, you know, when we 228 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:09,200 looking at the technology. So obviously, when you're 229 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,400 working in Project controls, you're looking at all those 230 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:15,700 different aspect like Risk Management is something that is 231 00:14:15,700 --> 00:14:18,400 kind of well done. Now would say in the industry. 232 00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:23,400 But looking with opportunities with eyes of innovation with 233 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,000 eyes of New Perspective, I think this is what, you know, we need 234 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:32,400 to bring a bit more positive on one project and this is what I'm 235 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:38,500 trying to do. Thinking is well like bringing 236 00:14:38,500 --> 00:14:41,200 people together as it was mentioned earlier. 237 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,700 Is something that is quite interesting, obviously on 238 00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:46,600 Project. That's what we do is it will 239 00:14:46,608 --> 00:14:51,500 bring people together to achieve great goals and I believe that, 240 00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:55,100 you know, we working in challenging environment, we 241 00:14:55,100 --> 00:15:02,400 really need to make things, you know, working looking at, you 242 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,400 know, future and And new position. 243 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:10,200 And so, yeah, thank you talking about bringing people together 244 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:15,100 and this podcast is being done. It was an inspired by women in 245 00:15:15,100 --> 00:15:17,700 project manager. Apm's with him conference, which 246 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:21,000 I understand you helped put together as well. 247 00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:26,000 I wanted to ask each of you. If, if the conference gave you 248 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,100 any food for thought of anything, in particular 249 00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:31,900 resonated with you from that day, because I found it a really 250 00:15:31,900 --> 00:15:36,000 bossy event and You could tell that people were just enjoying 251 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:40,600 being around each other and certainly to have a space like 252 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,500 that that was predominantly women as well. 253 00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:49,500 I think gave the conference in the day a kind of safety in 254 00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:53,900 terms of allow people to talk about quite you know openly and 255 00:15:53,900 --> 00:15:57,300 honestly about situations they found themselves in and was 256 00:15:57,300 --> 00:16:00,400 hugely valuable Estelle. Was there anything in particular 257 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,400 that you you drew from a conference that gave you food 258 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,600 for thought? Yeah. 259 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:12,300 So you know, the basis of whipping was kind of created 260 00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:17,100 because it was a safe space for women basically to talk about 261 00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:20,900 different challenges, they were cantering, you know, in the 262 00:16:20,900 --> 00:16:24,600 workplace and together they were finding Solutions and this is 263 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:29,800 how whip him kind of bra. So that is an important aspect 264 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:34,300 and you know, having women all together, I think we all buzzing 265 00:16:34,300 --> 00:16:37,800 as you mentioned. This is really a great 266 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,300 experience that when bringing women together is always like, 267 00:16:41,300 --> 00:16:44,600 bringing that positive energy and that great attitude of, you 268 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,600 know, looking at things in different angle and with 269 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:52,400 different attitude. What we need to note as well, is 270 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:56,700 we need allies. You know, having women in the 271 00:16:56,700 --> 00:17:00,700 profession is great, but without allies without the men out 272 00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:03,600 there, helping us to be able to be ourselves. 273 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,599 This wouldn't be Be able to happen. 274 00:17:09,099 --> 00:17:13,700 And we were talking a lot during the conference about emotional 275 00:17:13,700 --> 00:17:17,800 intelligence promoting diversity for positive change. 276 00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:20,800 And I think this is it, we all coming from different 277 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,000 background, real from different origin, we all did think 278 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,500 differently. And, and I think this is what is 279 00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:33,800 bringing, you know, this this conference to a great to a great 280 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,700 hint. And I really believe that this 281 00:17:37,700 --> 00:17:41,000 is something that we need to continue and having, you know, 282 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,900 well, continuing this experience, basically, would you 283 00:17:45,908 --> 00:17:48,800 like more with men to come along to the conference? 284 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,500 I would love to yes, I think is important that, you know, we do 285 00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:57,700 not separate each other. I realize that sometimes, you 286 00:17:57,700 --> 00:18:01,800 know, especially I think the in the industry, we kind of, you 287 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,000 know, promoting women in the workplace which is great but we 288 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,700 don't need to Forget that, you know, the guys that were there 289 00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:11,700 before, you know, they've done quite a lot of great journey as 290 00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:14,300 well. And without them we can't hear. 291 00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:18,700 I think we need to have some sort of a balance between having 292 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:22,800 women in the workplace and only replacing, you know, some roles 293 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:25,000 that women. I think we need to keep 294 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,100 understanding that we can hurt feelings as well. 295 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:33,900 You know, it's just, I think he's important that we We keep 296 00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:39,700 that conversation and synchronicity between you know, 297 00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:46,100 everyone in the workplace I think thank you Sam. 298 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:51,500 Anything particular resonate with you Say for me is opposed 299 00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:54,300 to try many of the different sessions. 300 00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:57,200 I went to really interesting, but actually, what resonated to 301 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:01,200 me, more of many things with the power of having so many, 302 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:06,200 particularly young women at the start of their careers in one 303 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:11,900 place, not seeing blast feelings that I certainly feel that I 304 00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:17,000 experienced when I felt that in my career just full of energy 305 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,100 passion and A change of conversation. 306 00:19:21,100 --> 00:19:23,800 I think that has started to happen. 307 00:19:24,100 --> 00:19:28,300 That's not so much. Now in this space when I started 308 00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:31,600 my career that was about women can have everything you just got 309 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,900 to think about how you smashed the glass ceiling too far more 310 00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:39,000 of a space. Now of I want a career that can 311 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,200 Flex around my life aspirations and those life, aspirations 312 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:48,000 could be about being gay program leader and traveling the world 313 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,500 or and herring. For parents or and having your 314 00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:54,900 own family. And it felt like a younger 315 00:19:54,900 --> 00:19:58,900 generation who were just a bit more fluffy dare. 316 00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:04,000 I say, then I certainly was about what they wanted from 317 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,900 their career as a whole, not just what they wanted from the 318 00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:10,400 workplace. The other things that really 319 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,200 resonated with me was the number of conversations that we got 320 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:19,100 into that was about the intersectionality of different. 321 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:22,600 Active characteristics. So some really interesting 322 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,400 conversations with colleagues at the conference who have 323 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,700 disabilities have caring responsibilities and a lot of 324 00:20:29,700 --> 00:20:34,000 conversations with beIN colleagues who were talking 325 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,800 about some of the specific challenges, they find being 326 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,100 ineffective that had historically a profession that 327 00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:46,700 had historically had a male bias towards it and how to come into 328 00:20:46,700 --> 00:20:48,100 the sector, not just, as a woman. 329 00:20:48,100 --> 00:20:53,500 But a man A woman with maybe a black African background or 330 00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:57,900 whatever it may be really energizing and empowering 331 00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:01,400 conversation and some Sharon, how about you. 332 00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:07,700 So firstly it was an absolute honor to be a guest speaker at 333 00:21:07,708 --> 00:21:13,300 Along With Sam at our session. And secondly, I done the mentor 334 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,500 session in the afternoon as well again, absolute honor to be 335 00:21:16,500 --> 00:21:21,400 asked to do that. I think the most resonated Thing 336 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:27,300 For Me Above anything was the fact that women out there do 337 00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:32,000 need help and support still. And I don't mean to deliver the 338 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,500 day job, you know, the comfortable with what the need 339 00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:38,100 to do, and how they need to do, to successfully more to do with, 340 00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:42,200 how they structure their own development, and their own 341 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:46,600 progress. So, like Sam said, meantime 342 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,100 during the session, And the amount of people that came over 343 00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:53,000 and asked for advice were talking about issues and 344 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,300 concerns was quite alarming. So really positive that no issue 345 00:21:57,300 --> 00:22:01,800 with their job a little bit alarming with regards to Brahma 346 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,500 from this problem. How, how would you advise me 347 00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:07,800 with that? And as a result of that, I'm 348 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,100 sorry what, what problems or challenges were? 349 00:22:11,100 --> 00:22:14,200 They coming? So I talked with this is no 350 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,500 structure within my Organization for any progression. 351 00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:20,100 I'm Can really hard, but I'm not being seen. 352 00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:23,100 How do I do that? So it wasn't about doing the 353 00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:25,000 job. It was everything that should 354 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:30,800 come along with doing the job. And as a result of that I have 355 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:33,400 met with quite a few people after that and hopefully helped 356 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,300 and advise them. So for me it was everything that 357 00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:40,900 the ladies of just said but for me I took away everything and 358 00:22:40,900 --> 00:22:44,600 yet there's still a bit more to be done, not with dear job, but 359 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:49,900 a lot of the other as important elements of If you job with 360 00:22:49,900 --> 00:22:52,300 regards to, what did I take away? 361 00:22:52,300 --> 00:22:54,900 We talked about the empathy scale on the introduction of 362 00:22:54,900 --> 00:22:57,700 these. That just enlightened me where I 363 00:22:57,700 --> 00:23:01,900 think I'm extremely intuitive. And it's one of my key strengths 364 00:23:02,300 --> 00:23:06,000 when I looked at that and sympathy versus empathy vast 365 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:08,600 difference. So, that was the one thing I 366 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:14,300 took away to educate myself on the empathy scale and then for 367 00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:21,600 me overarching, With regards to opinion on the conference in 368 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,900 invigorated me, I love the level of honesty and openness. 369 00:23:25,900 --> 00:23:30,000 It was refreshing to a degree that I probably never seen with 370 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,000 hundreds of people before and granted me a little bit. 371 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,500 You know, I sit in my own little Cocoon of sellafield limited 372 00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:42,100 and, and I when I have met a much wider audience, I think. 373 00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:45,600 Yeah, I maybe need to spread this peace, love and learning a 374 00:23:45,608 --> 00:23:48,500 bit bigger than what I'm doing at the moment, so, Grounded me a 375 00:23:48,500 --> 00:23:51,900 little bit. That's Association for project 376 00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:54,000 management. We know your most important 377 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,900 project is your career but as a project manager, it's not always 378 00:23:57,900 --> 00:24:01,500 easy to make project me happen. That's where our membership can 379 00:24:01,500 --> 00:24:04,000 help. We offer exclusive training 380 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,700 qualifications and learning resources to keep your 381 00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:10,700 development on track. Join our 35,000 members and 382 00:24:10,700 --> 00:24:13,800 become part of the only charted membership body for the project 383 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,300 profession. Open up your future AT AP m dot 384 00:24:17,300 --> 00:24:18,500 org chart. UK. 385 00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:25,100 Bearing in mind with what you said, the term about when you 386 00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:27,200 starting out with a different world to today. 387 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,400 So I was going to ask you if you could give advice to younger 388 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:37,000 self, what advice would that be? But actually I think I'd be most 389 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,100 interested think yeah? Reflecting. 390 00:24:40,100 --> 00:24:43,500 What you said term that, what's your experience now of being a 391 00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:45,400 senior leader in the project profession? 392 00:24:45,700 --> 00:24:50,300 And what advice would you give to say for examples of types of 393 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,600 Of people who came along to the conference here in their 20s 30s 394 00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,100 or even sort of an older mid-career you're looking and 395 00:24:57,100 --> 00:24:59,900 have the ambition to step up to senior level. 396 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,000 So the advice to the younger version of myself is, don't 397 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,500 worry about the pathway. Take the interesting exciting 398 00:25:08,500 --> 00:25:13,100 opportunities when they arrive and when you see them so taking 399 00:25:13,100 --> 00:25:18,400 that forward now to a new quite different Dynamic World thinking 400 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,300 about, I've Like that for the Lost of conversations, with 401 00:25:22,300 --> 00:25:26,500 people who reached out at the conference, with both people 402 00:25:26,500 --> 00:25:28,700 trying to find their first job on the ladder. 403 00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:33,900 But also people starting to think about how they yeah make 404 00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:35,900 themselves. Seen and how they progress 405 00:25:35,900 --> 00:25:40,500 within an organization and my advice to them. 406 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,500 And to people within the civil services often there is 407 00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:46,900 something about stay with you. Focus on doing what you're 408 00:25:46,900 --> 00:25:50,100 doing. Really, really well, we can 409 00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:53,100 build Build ourselves personal development plans that are so 410 00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:56,600 focused on the personal development that we forget that. 411 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,400 Actually what people see is a job done really, really well and 412 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,700 there's a balance there isn't that to not just be focused on 413 00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:07,000 the next thing but make sure you're delivering well in the 414 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:11,600 day job and then in thinking about those next steps and how 415 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,900 you build themselves. There is something for me that's 416 00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:17,500 about authenticity. You are who you are. 417 00:26:17,500 --> 00:26:20,200 I will pin to the office every day. 418 00:26:20,700 --> 00:26:25,400 As a member of TK with my dyslexia juggling a gazillion 419 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,200 different balls. That is who I am and I'm a 420 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,900 people person who happens to have a math degree and that's 421 00:26:31,900 --> 00:26:35,100 all influences, the type of leader I am. 422 00:26:35,700 --> 00:26:39,600 And when I'm talking to people who are starting to think about 423 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,000 their leadership Journey, there is something about spend as much 424 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,000 time reflecting and thinking of what sort of person you are as 425 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,700 much as workers you are in work. Take as much time as doing that, 426 00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:55,400 is you do thinking about what a leader needs to be. 427 00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:59,600 Because you are you and for all the training and development 428 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,000 that can happen in the leadership space, you've got to 429 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,900 be able to do it in log then typically you way. 430 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,800 So don't lose sight. When you're doing that 431 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:12,400 leadership training, when you're thinking about the career 432 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,500 progression, is this an environment? 433 00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:18,300 That's the right place for you and your leadership style. 434 00:27:18,300 --> 00:27:20,000 And what does that look like? And what? 435 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,100 Two people? Valuing. 436 00:27:22,300 --> 00:27:26,700 The others felt that being a woman has impacted on your 437 00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:31,100 career, either positively or negatively, is it something that 438 00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:33,200 you carry around with you every day? 439 00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:38,700 So I will find a place where sharing a funny story that I 440 00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:42,400 said at the conference which is that very early in my career, I 441 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:47,100 knew that as a woman, I had an ability to get him good for 442 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:52,400 sales out of somebody that my older male colleagues couldn't 443 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:58,300 do and and I, my Approach in my early 20s for that and women in 444 00:27:58,300 --> 00:28:00,700 their early twenties, now are horrified when I say this but it 445 00:28:00,700 --> 00:28:03,300 was a different context than the different environments. 446 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:07,300 I really felt that if somebody was going to be silly enough 447 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,500 then that was the their fall and I should take advantage of it. 448 00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:17,500 The world has thankfully moved on, I would say since then and I 449 00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:20,900 think that the way being the woman has helped and caused me 450 00:28:20,900 --> 00:28:26,400 some challenges. I often look at the world quite 451 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,200 differently, too. Many of my male colleagues 452 00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:33,200 through the lens of program delivery I think in comparison 453 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,900 to my mail Colleagues, I tend to look at the system through the 454 00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:40,900 lens of the people and be influencing the change, whereas 455 00:28:40,900 --> 00:28:44,300 I see my male colleagues often, look at the world from more 456 00:28:44,300 --> 00:28:48,700 structurally than I do and therefore how you bring those 457 00:28:48,700 --> 00:28:53,300 together and make that work together is really strong and is 458 00:28:53,300 --> 00:28:56,500 really powerful, but I sometimes question is that big woman or is 459 00:28:56,500 --> 00:28:58,900 that being dyslexic? Who knows there's a whole 460 00:28:58,900 --> 00:29:01,700 different conversation that you could have? 461 00:29:02,700 --> 00:29:07,300 I found some Maybe Being a mum actually has probably influenced 462 00:29:07,300 --> 00:29:11,700 and created more barriers, which are as much about me grappling 463 00:29:11,700 --> 00:29:16,800 with how I want to prioritize. Work over family, perhaps 464 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,700 differently at this stage, as to how I looked at the world before 465 00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:24,900 I had children, I don't think I've ever been in a situation 466 00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:28,100 where I've not been able to deliver something, because I'm a 467 00:29:28,100 --> 00:29:31,400 woman. But I have encountered sexist 468 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,200 comments and sexist remarks along the way. 469 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:39,700 Way that I've always felt strong enough and empowered enough to 470 00:29:39,700 --> 00:29:43,100 call out and actually my experience has been if you call 471 00:29:43,100 --> 00:29:46,800 them out, once the person doesn't dare do it again. 472 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,100 How did you do that in a way? That did you do that at the 473 00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:52,500 time? When someone said something or 474 00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:56,200 was it, did you then think about it and then react later to it? 475 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,400 No, I call this how? Absolutely in the time in the 476 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:04,200 moment, that's so weird. Yes. 477 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:05,400 How did you do it? What? 478 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,100 Because it still happens, right? In some sectors, it still 479 00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:10,700 happens. What is so? 480 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,000 So an effective way of doing it polite, way of doing it. 481 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:20,900 So, I've always used humor Emma, so I have always found a way of 482 00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:24,300 doing it. So I found myself in meeting 483 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,200 where some in Africa, right? Would be assumed I was a man. 484 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,100 What I walked in the room because my name's Sam and I've 485 00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:34,700 had to explain that. No, you don't need to see mr. 486 00:30:34,700 --> 00:30:36,000 Olson. My husband worked for a 487 00:30:36,008 --> 00:30:38,500 pharmaceutical company. Think you're here to talk about 488 00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:42,900 planes. I've done it in situations where 489 00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:46,500 somebody has assumed that I'm there to take two minutes which 490 00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:48,900 point actually, I've called out my dyslexia and said, no, 491 00:30:48,900 --> 00:30:51,100 really, believe me. You don't want the senior person 492 00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:53,800 with dyslexia in the room to be writings of in it. 493 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,500 Since there's just something about using a bit of And 494 00:30:57,500 --> 00:30:59,900 professor of guys, stop it there. 495 00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:06,300 But that is not we're not in the 1980s and and it changes the 496 00:31:06,300 --> 00:31:09,300 tone immediately. But I think it needs calling out 497 00:31:09,300 --> 00:31:12,800 and you've got to call us out because it's not a healthy 498 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,300 environment. Thank you Estelle. 499 00:31:16,100 --> 00:31:20,700 Can you put together succinctly? All the advice? 500 00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:24,300 You picked up the advice, you'd give to the younger self and 501 00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:28,900 also any advice, you'd give to Women who are aspiring to get to 502 00:31:28,900 --> 00:31:33,000 the top to where you are now. Okay. 503 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:37,600 So the list of, you know, the great advice for from my younger 504 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:43,100 self is well I would like to say the first one is take the risk. 505 00:31:43,100 --> 00:31:49,400 You know, just go ahead, don't stop yourself or, you know, with 506 00:31:49,500 --> 00:31:53,300 going for the things that you believe that are good for you. 507 00:31:53,300 --> 00:31:56,200 But even though people are saying you might not have the 508 00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:01,700 skills or the competencies, I think it worth trying. 509 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,300 It was trying everything you know and if it's not the sector 510 00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:09,200 that sweetie well that's fine you move on to another one. 511 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:16,600 There is always that opportunity and then another great advice I 512 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,000 would say is ask questions ask many questions as you can. 513 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,500 I think that's the that's one of the basics you know. 514 00:32:22,500 --> 00:32:24,400 If you don't understand something just go for it. 515 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,000 If you want to know a bit more about type of role or industry 516 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,900 were just ask those people. You know, the world is now open. 517 00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:37,500 We're more open that used to be and what I'm noticing as well is 518 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,300 you like to have someone that can be some sort of a mentor or 519 00:32:42,300 --> 00:32:46,700 a coach that can hold your hand when you know, you do not feel 520 00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:49,700 quite comfortable in certain times. 521 00:32:49,700 --> 00:32:53,100 So you always want someone to give you a little push, you 522 00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:55,200 know? And give you some confidence 523 00:32:55,200 --> 00:33:00,800 that actually, you know, or just can answer your concerns or 524 00:33:01,500 --> 00:33:06,400 anyways. I I think being being able to 525 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:13,400 talk to someone about your fear, I think is very important and, 526 00:33:13,500 --> 00:33:17,400 you know, obviously being a foreign in this country, you 527 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,100 know, I didn't know quite well, the language start with. 528 00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:25,000 So then you know, you need to find some people that you can 529 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,400 kind of trust start with you know, and through my journey I 530 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,200 had like a lot of great managers. 531 00:33:32,300 --> 00:33:36,300 Is that really believed in me? I think the me is being like, 532 00:33:36,700 --> 00:33:38,900 you know, finding those individual. 533 00:33:38,900 --> 00:33:42,900 Basically that give you that little push that move you to the 534 00:33:42,900 --> 00:33:47,700 next step on that ladder. And, you know, most of my 535 00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:50,400 manager always said to me is still be patient. 536 00:33:50,900 --> 00:33:55,000 Be patient. But obviously I'm not. 537 00:33:55,900 --> 00:33:59,800 I like, you know, to go not only quick but you know I'm just 538 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,200 thinking well if it doesn't go this way. 539 00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:07,800 I can change my roots and, you know, I think there is different 540 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,300 ways of reaching the top. There is no one separates, you 541 00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:13,300 know, people say, well, is that not? 542 00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:16,300 When say that every route goes to Rome with something like 543 00:34:16,300 --> 00:34:18,800 that? Everybody please to Rome. 544 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,699 There you go. That's the English for far away. 545 00:34:21,699 --> 00:34:26,100 So so this is it, you know, I mean if you want to make your 546 00:34:26,100 --> 00:34:30,699 career, I think there is no 11, Yellow Brick Road, there are 547 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:36,600 many and And I think this on that road, you need to find the 548 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:41,000 people that can help you move. And that's the most important 549 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,600 part, I think. Thank you. 550 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,000 So, and and Sharon, what advice would you give to younger self 551 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,600 or advice to people women, especially who are looking to 552 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:56,199 get to the top? I would say to you younger 553 00:34:56,199 --> 00:35:02,500 women, you are starting off with three superpowers, one, You 554 00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:09,300 female to you young three, you're going to have a drive to 555 00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:11,200 the level. You probably aren't going to see 556 00:35:11,500 --> 00:35:15,800 that level again, any career. But that level consistently do. 557 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,200 Never let anybody make you believe that they are not 558 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,200 superpowers because by God, they bloody our superpowers. 559 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,700 Other advice would be very similar to the ladies. 560 00:35:27,700 --> 00:35:29,300 I'm not going to lie, it's all about. 561 00:35:29,300 --> 00:35:33,600 Make a plan and workout too. Bloody deliver that Um so it's 562 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:39,100 about having a development plan, what being very conscious that 563 00:35:39,100 --> 00:35:43,300 it should not be 100% work orientated. 564 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,200 The development plans that I put in place for myself and all of 565 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:52,000 my people that either work for me or a mentor a 50/50 it's 50 566 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,900 work. 50 life. So what you want to achieve in 567 00:35:54,900 --> 00:35:59,100 your life out of work, what you want to achieve at work. 568 00:35:59,900 --> 00:36:02,000 So get a development plan in place. 569 00:36:02,300 --> 00:36:07,000 Get a mentor in place, have routine sessions in the diary 570 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,800 with your line manager, do discussion any issues and topics 571 00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:15,700 volunteer for something outside of your normal day job, you 572 00:36:15,700 --> 00:36:19,200 know, show the Enterprise your organization, your company that 573 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,700 you willing get that additional exposure with different people. 574 00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:28,600 Start with the mindset of no one else is going to look after you. 575 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,200 So you have to look after you and then anything he get from. 576 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,600 That is an absolute bonus. So if you've got a brilliant 577 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:38,300 team, great, we've got brilliant mentors. 578 00:36:38,500 --> 00:36:41,400 Fantastic. If you've got an awesome line 579 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:47,100 manager perfect but start off the only use going to look after 580 00:36:47,100 --> 00:36:52,300 you. I like to think that with every 581 00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:54,700 touch I leave a Trace. Race. 582 00:36:54,700 --> 00:36:56,400 And I've got to be conscious of that. 583 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,900 So be conscious of that in your early career because that could 584 00:36:59,900 --> 00:37:04,500 be positive or negative. But be very thoughtful that edit 585 00:37:04,500 --> 00:37:08,400 which, you have with any person will leave an impression and 586 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,900 opinion in a dress. And I think the key thing is 587 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:19,100 just sealed, don't not see it. Don't not have the confidence to 588 00:37:19,100 --> 00:37:22,500 see, don't feel you're not experienced or knowledge enough 589 00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:27,700 to see if it's in your Brain, and you're thinking it just see 590 00:37:27,700 --> 00:37:31,700 it. The Daft questions probably nine 591 00:37:31,700 --> 00:37:36,400 times out of 10, of the most permanent questions that nobody 592 00:37:36,500 --> 00:37:39,800 is brave enough to ask or discuss. 593 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:48,300 So Juiced seat. And would you also say just ask? 594 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,100 So you're saying, just ask questions, but I'm you talking 595 00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:56,800 about all of you about the you do your job, you do it 596 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,600 brilliantly, but you also have to be seen to do it. 597 00:38:00,100 --> 00:38:00,900 Yes. Yeah. 598 00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:05,000 And I think do not have to recognize that it's just not 599 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,100 enough to get on with the job. You actually have to share that 600 00:38:08,100 --> 00:38:10,000 what you're, what you're doing with the people. 601 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,400 You have to think slightly politically, I guess as well to 602 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,100 make. Make sure people know what 603 00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:19,800 you've done and to to not feel shy about saying, look, I've 604 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:24,500 done this, I dessert I deserve a pay rise, it's okay to ask for a 605 00:38:24,508 --> 00:38:27,500 pay rise and it's okay that maybe you won't get it, but 606 00:38:27,500 --> 00:38:29,600 you're showing. Look this is what I've done. 607 00:38:29,900 --> 00:38:32,700 I deserve to be heard, is that something that's something I 608 00:38:32,700 --> 00:38:35,500 found from my career? It is it something that you 609 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:40,400 would advise to so all about the pier eyes element? 610 00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:43,200 So you've been real working really, really hard for 12 611 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,000 months. No one has seen what you have 612 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,600 been doing, therefore why should they give you a pay rise? 613 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,700 So take that, as an example, if you've got a development 614 00:38:52,700 --> 00:38:56,000 planning place that your line manager has signed on to that 615 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,900 they're going to support you in. If you have got really clear 616 00:38:59,900 --> 00:39:04,100 objectives, identified for that year, that on your monthly 617 00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:08,400 meetings with your manager you're reviewing, there is no 618 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,700 reason why at the end of your thoughts, I mentioned a PMA. 619 00:39:12,700 --> 00:39:17,800 So Formance management assessment meeting, whatever it 620 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:20,200 may be. At the end of that 12 month 621 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,700 period. You have all of the evidence to 622 00:39:22,700 --> 00:39:25,900 show that you achieved what you said you were going to achieve. 623 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:29,100 I think when you talk about sitting down and talking about 624 00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:33,700 appear eyes, it's all about the people who determine that all on 625 00:39:33,700 --> 00:39:37,400 the same page. This is what I expect, continual 626 00:39:37,700 --> 00:39:41,800 progress, monitoring of that expectation and it being visible 627 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:48,900 transparent and open Okay, that sounds entirely logical. 628 00:39:49,300 --> 00:39:54,300 I we've run out of time. I just wanted a final, your 629 00:39:54,300 --> 00:39:57,300 final thoughts are each of you, just how you feel about? 630 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:02,700 How optimistic, do you feel about gender equality in the 631 00:40:02,900 --> 00:40:06,000 profession and how much more needs to change? 632 00:40:06,300 --> 00:40:08,700 Do you feel optimistic? Do you feel pessimistic? 633 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:15,800 Sam Hey, there's one bit that we missed off the last 634 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,800 conversation, which you could pick a color on in between 635 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,300 everything we said about, I would like to call out, and 636 00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:27,600 that's to say to everyone. When you go into the workplace, 637 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:29,500 that doesn't mean you've left education. 638 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,300 Every day is a learning day. You've got to keep continuously 639 00:40:33,300 --> 00:40:36,500 learning the world around. You, is changing the world 640 00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:38,600 around. You is evolving, you've got to 641 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:42,000 keep up the distal ileum project leadership with what Is 642 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,500 happening in The Wider environment all the time. 643 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,900 They always say to everyone. Every day is a learning day as 644 00:40:47,900 --> 00:40:52,400 always, it's a wasted day. Am I optimistic where I think we 645 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,400 are? Well on the way there, I think 646 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:59,400 we are really in a space now where I know that I've caught 647 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,600 said that I've called out sexism when I seen it, I don't see it 648 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:13,300 that much anymore, actually but it is up to the Next Generation 649 00:41:13,300 --> 00:41:18,200 coming up of male and female leaders to ensure that that 650 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:22,300 parity continues and that there is a conversation to be had 651 00:41:22,300 --> 00:41:27,300 about what happened what is parity for women is quite an 652 00:41:27,300 --> 00:41:30,800 interesting place for me. So is parity feeling, you can 653 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:36,400 have it all and you can be 100% at home and 100% at home and 654 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,700 represent at work leader. Or is that just completely 655 00:41:39,700 --> 00:41:44,600 exhausting? So I feel really optimistic I 656 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,700 feel that the conversation is changing and evolving. 657 00:41:48,500 --> 00:41:54,300 That said I think that if you go back to that intersectionality 658 00:41:54,300 --> 00:41:59,400 point and start looking at women with caring responsibilities 659 00:41:59,500 --> 00:42:03,600 women from certain ethnic backgrounds and women with 660 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,200 certain disabilities, I think there's still a long way to go 661 00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:13,600 in those spaces. So a cell, any final thoughts. 662 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,700 How do you feel about equality within the profession? 663 00:42:19,900 --> 00:42:22,900 For me. So I'm quite optimistic and I 664 00:42:22,900 --> 00:42:25,900 need to think about the Legacy as well. 665 00:42:25,900 --> 00:42:29,300 So today as an individual, what is the Legacy, I want to give, 666 00:42:29,300 --> 00:42:32,400 you know, through the next generation and obviously this is 667 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,800 what we're doing here today is and that's all we're talking 668 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,500 about those issues and how we can tackle them and how we can 669 00:42:38,500 --> 00:42:42,100 find to do to the next level, and we can help change things 670 00:42:42,100 --> 00:42:47,000 and overcome those obstacles together and basically until 671 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:52,300 until we succeed. We are that momentum and I think 672 00:42:52,300 --> 00:42:58,200 this is, you know, all of us today I enabling this movement. 673 00:42:59,500 --> 00:43:01,900 Thank you, Sharon. Any final thoughts on the 674 00:43:01,900 --> 00:43:03,700 subject. How do you feel? 675 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:09,400 Yes, I'm optimistic. I think we have still got a bit 676 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,100 of a fight and I think that's Legacy of decades, were 677 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:20,500 conscious choices for meals, have been taken. 678 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,300 So, the conscious decision is always the introduce, the man in 679 00:43:23,300 --> 00:43:26,500 the room rather than the woman. And I think that we still have 680 00:43:26,500 --> 00:43:29,100 to work quite hard to get the quality in that. 681 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:34,400 I think we have to consciously be aware of decisions, made in 682 00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,500 decades, prior tools, history, to be able to get that equality. 683 00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:42,600 I think the most enlightening thing for me until I've actually 684 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,000 seen it last week. I attended a managing 685 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,800 construction course. So there was 20 employees on the 686 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:55,400 managing construction course. In 18 of them were female never 687 00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:59,700 in my whole career. Have I ever been in a, in a 688 00:43:59,707 --> 00:44:03,700 meeting of any description that's been dominated like that? 689 00:44:03,700 --> 00:44:07,200 I females. So, I am optimistic, and I am 690 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:12,500 actually seeing it with my own eyes, which is, Outstandingly 691 00:44:12,500 --> 00:44:15,600 amazing. Thank you so much. 692 00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:19,100 I want to thank all of you for finding the time and passing on 693 00:44:19,100 --> 00:44:22,000 your wisdom, and to listen, especially those who couldn't 694 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,700 make it to the conference. So it's been a really positive 695 00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:29,700 and quite emotional. So, thanks again for everyone. 696 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,300 It's been brilliant. Thank you, thank you, thank you, 697 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,900 appreciate it. Thanks again to Samuelson Sharon 698 00:44:38,900 --> 00:44:42,000 Parker Brandon and the start of the traveler for joining us and 699 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,400 to you for listening to this episode of the Opium poppy. 700 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,800 Just don't forget to look out for more episodes or to rate and 701 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:49,600 review us wherever you get your podcast. 702 00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:53,000 You'll find us on Spotify, Apple podcast, Google podcasts and 703 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,200 more. We'd welcome you to get in touch 704 00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:59,000 with your comments feedback and suggestions by e-mailing us at a 705 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,500 p.m. podcast at think publishing .co.uk. 706 00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:06,600 This podcast has been brought to you by APM the childhood body 707 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,700 for the project profession. 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