Welcome to the IPM podcast. Opium is a childhood body for
the project profession. My name is Emma divita and I'm
the editor of project apm's quarterly journal and your host.
Today, we're speaking to through the professions Bright Young,
things who care, deeply about sustainability, tan cover, what
are the younger Generations? Biggest concerns expectations
and hopes? What?
Do they want to older generations, to understand about
them? What is it about the project
profession that motivates them so deeply and what can we learn
from them about new ways of working?
So, the three talented people I have with me today are some of
those I met at the cover, shoot for projects, Autumn issue.
When we featured, nine young people who are going places to
spill the beans on what makes our generation tick as a
Generation X. ER, I was really impressed with
our sense of agency and enthusiasm, listen on to hear
how they feel, they are very much part of the solution.
Many of the problems we face in the environment society and
business today, you can't afford to not listen to them.
Thanks for joining us today. Why don't you tell us a bit
about yourselves? If we start with you, Stacey.
Hi. I'm Stacy Bishop.
I'm 26 years old, and I'm an international integration
project manager for SSE Renewables.
What does your job role? Encompass, what projects are you
working on right now? So I span across a few different
projects, all of which are international.
But my main focus is to look at policies and procedures.
The all currently based in the UK and figure out how we can
make them applicable in country. So that could be Japan,
Netherlands. The u.s. multiple different
areas but that's my main focus. Okay.
Thanks and Ashland. Tell us about yourself.
Hi, I'm Ashley and I didn't. I'm 26 years old and I'm a
project manager with talent and send in London, okay?
Any particular projects you're working on at the moment.
Yep. Currently working with Essex and
Suffolk water. So doing a kind of range, I'm an
engineering and Construction contract p.m.
Sunday, ccpm. So I work with them doing about
13 different projects. A range of essential water
infrastructure but also mainly on their ill, regs health
program, which is a program to help increase the biodiversity
net gain of rivers in Essex and Suffolk.
Okay, thanks and James. Yeah.
Hi. I'm changed the traco at my,
background is in Renewable Energy, Engineering.
So, that's what I did. My master's degree in and now,
I'm an engineering project manager for a company called
core energy, who leads hydrogen storage in Europe.
I've been working for the last year, on a base funded project.
That's the Department of Business energy and Industrial
strategy on a new novel, green, hydrogen storage.
Ecology and working with a Consortium to deliver that
McKay's, thanks. I think the first thing I'd like
to ask you all as kind of I'm going to say that your hive High
Flyers in your 20s. I'm curious to find out what
Drew you all to project management Ashton.
What do you to project management?
I think the first thing that you need to project management was
just that, I always felt like a bit of an all-rounder, the whole
way through school and especially in engineering,
Degree. I picked a range of modules, you
know, that might not have made sense for a specific discipline,
but gave me a good overview of the whole process and things
that I enjoyed. So, you know, might've done
computer, aided design, and also, if they're move and, you
know, these ones that maybe don't go together in the most
coherent technical sense, but I just really like the overview of
the whole process. So, I think, for those who, you
know, all around us, who enjoy a bit of everything at school and
at Uni, I really like project management.
And I also think it's a really good blend of Technical and soft
skills, so you get to look in on on the technical subjects, but
you also get to be, you know, involved in team leadership and
management which is also really. Yeah, feeling, I think What
appeals to younger people about project management because I'm
always impressed. I think of project managers as
the people who actually get stuff done.
It is that part of the appeal for you to actually see things
happen because of, you know, past pot, your efforts on it.
Yeah, I think the appeal to me is kind of seeing things from a
bird's-eye view. I mean, there's subject matter
Experts of Kind of every function that's in every world
that alone. Just the kind of corporate world
that I work it in but it's being able to see all of that at the
same time and organize it in a way that you deliver what you
need to deliver. I think for younger people today
and actually a large part of what I enjoy so much as well, is
the pretty much unlimited choice of industries that you can work
in. So for example, I moved from the
defense industry to the Renewables interest industry
which is something that I'm really passionate.
About. But the possibilities are
absolutely endless. Whether you want to work in food
or fashion or engineering or construction.
There's so many options that you don't actually have to choose
until you choose, if that makes sense.
So you really can move around and just keep learning, which is
really appealing. How about you James?
What do you to project management?
It is, I think it's I'm learning that there's quite a similar
story here between between us young project managers.
I always found that, you know, through gcses and you have to
make decisions quite quite early on in life, as where you want
to, where you want to go into and that really Narrows your
sort of your horizon of where you want your career to end up.
And I found just keeping my options as wide open as I
possibly could was what brought me most satisfaction in
learning. And then again, as Ashton was
saying at University, I found that I just wanted to do
everything. I want to learn as much as I
could and have oversight of things and group projects are
always most exciting for me. You'll kind of around the age of
25 26. So you're actually I think
you're the very tail end of the millennial generation perhaps
even bordering on Jen said, so I have quite a big question to ask
if you which because because there's been a lot written about
generation said, and younger Millennials about what matters
most you in your career. So it's a huge question but it'd
be great to have some insight into what Oops, each of you
thinks is the most important for you personally, Min, what you
get from your career? Is there any one of you brave
enough to start on this? I can have a go.
So for me, I think and how I align myself in my personality
and also my career, what I initially start thinking that a
career as a project as well, which is probably very
quintessential project management.
But so, I just want to make the largest net positive impact on
on lives, bit human or animal, and, and the environment as
possible. But while maintaining my own
well, being mentally and physically as so you can, you
can push it a little bit too far and focus too much, but you have
to do something that will enable you to keep going on your
mission. Yeah, Funk fundamentally for me,
that's kind of the meaning of life, and what?
Just speaks to me as a person. So, and then there's also, you
know, getting myself into the position where I can make the,
the largest impact that I can do in a, in a positive way.
So that will include responsibility having, you know,
learning along the way, making good networks with people and
That in my career is about people as well.
I just love interacting with people, you know, and trying to
use, you know, talking to people finding out the personalities.
What people are good at is just, it's brings a lot of color and
to working. And also just challenge is very
important as well. So finding the right mix of
security and chaos. Chaos being not, you do not
papers flying everywhere. But, you know, having having
change JH at a good at a good rate while maintaining a level
of security. I think is important for change
to happen in the first place. So you feel very much connected
to the larger issues of our days.
Because obviously obviously climate sustainability is
massive, is that something that is cool to you finding
satisfaction from your work? Yeah.
Yeah. 100%. I think, you know, there are
there Pillars of personality and pillars of happiness.
And one of those pillars of happiness is to to feel like
you're, you know, you've got a name and you have purpose and
that you can make a difference and based on your own morals and
ethics, what a mind being sustainability and the
environment and the planet, and all of those that live there is
to assume prove that. So for me, you know, quite a
dilemma Choice of going into renewable energy and being an
engineer and then becoming a project manager in order.
In order to make that, to make that change happen.
Okay. Do you feel that you have a
sense of agency? Because there's a lot of
pessimism monks older generations, and the sense of
responsibility that work are kind of passing down to those
who have to help. Find a solution.
Do you feel optimistic? Do you feel empowered?
Do you feel listened to In there are some ways you can feel
listened to, I suppose there's I don't I don't have a seat at the
Prime Minister table, but in my in my own company I think you
can after a while you can command a certain respect and
and therefore your listen to. So, I think in the work that I
do, I can if I believe that there's a positive net gain from
a certain decision. Then I feel like I I can make
that decision and happily justify it to the people that I
need to justify it to. And that I will be listened to
and that they have a certain level of trust that I've managed
to build up. But I mean, that's always a
challenge and joining a new workplace in having to prove
yourself enough that they'll listen to you.
And that comes with a certain amount of confidence and
everybody has imposter syndrome. And that's just something that
you have to work through and know in yourself that you have
the ability to make changes. Change in that decisions that
you make will be well-founded based on your own, you know,
principles and expertise. And you mentioned happiness, and
well-being as well. So they're, they're, they're
kind of things are important to you as well.
Absolutely. Yeah, I really try to combine
both my professional life and my personal life.
I don't want there to be a difference between them really
in that sort of, you know, I need to keep myself.
You know, well-maintained, mentally and physically and also
I like to, you know, put in the same effort as I do into my
projects and the other things that I care about.
So, you know, I do, I do lots of psychological research, you
know, on on what can make me function in the best possible
way. So, you know, optimal morning
routines levels of dopamine cortisol, adrenaline, and that
I'd like to focus on On. So I can keep myself operating
because if I if I'm you know low or I'm not doing things right,
you know physiologically and you know neurologically then I'm not
going to function well as a project manager and just just in
my general life and with my friends, I just want to be
present and effective in everything.
And a large part of that is acknowledging, that mental
health is important and physical.
Health is important. What, what do you think of
work-life balance? Is that a term that you think of
as it gone beyond that? Yeah.
Work-life balance. I think work should almost be a
lifestyle that you're living rather than, you know, work
versus versus life. I think they should.
I mean, if you have the ability to to make them one in the same,
as I sort of mentioned, yeah, it's really important and I
think I think people are becoming more, you know, and
companies are becoming more aware of that as well, you know,
in Powering empowering the person to, you know, they get
home from work and they feel like they've really contributed
or they've been listened to. And that's, that's just so
important for morale. And so important for your own
the employees Hannity. We just, you know, if you're if
you're in a renewable field or a field that's looking to better
things. Then you know, a large focus
should be on the people as well. The people that you interact
with and the people that work for you, That should be you know
if your if your moral compass is pointing in the right direction
and that should always be something that you're looking
into just the well-being of your employees.
Okay? Great.
Thank you. I'm Stacey.
Is that does anything what James has said resonate with you mean
what matters most you to you in your career?
To me, what matters? Most of my career is a sense of
purpose. I agree with James in the fact
that you need to be passionate about something to be able to be
effective and deliver on that and working in the Renewables
industry, I do feel like my contributions, making a
difference and no matter how big or small and without that I do
find out lose motivation relatively quickly.
I think there's almost a stigma among Just many generations of
not talking about money and salary, and that it almost
doesn't matter, and I disagree with that.
I think it really does matter especially in our current
economic situation and project management is a well-paid career
and I think people should know that to be honest for me as long
as I am enough to maintain my lifestyle then I'm happy, I'm
not going to chase something. I don't need but I think it's
good to acknowledge and let others know that.
Is well-paid career, and there is job security, which is very
important at the moment. I think on James is point with
work-life balance, I do disagree.
I keep my work life and personal life, very separate.
And for me, that works, I work from home.
I constantly work from home. So my office is in my loft, um,
and everything below the loft is nothing to do with work.
I am a different person inside and out of work.
And I think that, that's Okay, as long as you can manage that
my morals Etc. Obviously are the same.
My belief system is still the same but the way that I act at
work and the way I acted my personal life is completely
separate and I think that does work and do you feel listened to
do? You feel that you've got sense
of agency about? I mean, you've picked you worked
in defense, you've moved over to Renewables, you'll see care,
deeply about the Environment or bigger issues.
But do you feel as though you are being listened to and that
you can make a change for the better?
Yeah, I think there's a difference in being listened to
as a generation and being listened to as a person as a
person. I think I am Listen to I've
built up confidence in my ability.
In the workspace that says, I know what I'm doing and
therefore, there's a trust within me and my team that I
know I'm talking about and I can deliver on what I'm telling them
that I can deliver. So, in that sense, I do feel My
ideas are taken on board and we can work with them.
Not all of them of course, but that's absolutely fine.
That's never going to happen but we can work on them because
chapter feedback Etc. And I think that really works as
a generation. I think it's different in that
there's different responses. One of the biggest issues for
this generation. I'm actually part of gen Z but I
like the year that it changed. So maybe a gen zhenya like that.
But I think There's a difference in who's listening?
I think there's a certain guilt for all the generations that
this has been passed down to the younger generations.
And I think there's also part of those older Generations that,
you know, counsels kind of like the woke culture in inverted
inverted commas. So I think there's a constant
battle to make sure that we listen to and respected in that
this generation. As you know, pursuing careers
around the subject of kind of climate change and
sustainability, and we do that research, we have that
experience and we do know what we're talking about and kind of
proving that and making ourselves hard is is a constant
challenge, but I think it's worth it.
If if we can convince a few people that it's real and that
we can do something about it individually, I think it's
definitely worth it. Do you feel is there ageism
against younger people? Do you feel as though it's
harder to be taken seriously, because you're younger.
I've had experiences of both, I think there is a certain stigma
around specifically. I didn't go to university.
So I've been in the workforce since the age of 18 and at that
age, yes, it's very hard to be taken seriously.
Now, that I've kind of grown, I mean going to 26 but growing
some fun and kind of work my way up and built that trust.
It's easy. ER, to be heard and it's easier
to be taken seriously and have those conversations, but I
definitely think there's a stigma around younger people
being assumed that they don't know what they're talking about.
Were, in fact, a lot of the time we do, Okay, that's interesting.
Ashton. What would you agree with
anything today? So James has said we're in what
matters most to you and your career.
Yeah, no. I completely agree with Stacey
and that, you know, purpose, super, super important.
Like, you know, you have to enjoy what you do in order to,
you know, put, you know, be the best the best employee you can
be. I think what I really enjoy
about project management is the sense of autonomy so much.
You know, how much kind of responsibility you're given
even, you know, as a graduate scheme that you're on The
Graduate scheme that I was just on.
There was a lot of autonomy which I really enjoyed but also
Yeah, this continuous self-improvement.
So the more experience you get, you know, more different
projects. You can do the more you learn.
And that's really important to me, you know, as for money like
a course, of course, money is important to our generation, you
know, we faced multiple financial crisis and our lives
and pressed into the vents and all this kind of stuff and to
continue to live and work. You know, money is important as
a driving Factor, but I think, you know, we might not be yours.
Successful as our parents as a result but I don't think that's
a driving factor for me. I think it's just as long as I
can continue to. Yeah, live and work.
If I am, then that's fine. I think the thing that really
matters to me is kind of the longevity of projects.
I mean, I'm biased here. I work in infrastructure but you
know, being able to walk past something and say, you know, I
was a part of that, you know, being able to say, all that's on
that. That's, you know, that's, that's
really important to me. So, I think James said it best
in times of Challenge and security.
You want a good balance of, you know, being able to feel secure
in a job. But also, yeah, continually
self-improving and do you feel as though you, you have a sense
of agency that you feel empowered and that your listen
to when it comes to the kind of bigger issues of the faces right
now? Yeah, I do I think, I think
delivery PMS have a kind of a difficult, you know, Ridin that
in terms of sustainability because, you know, you can only
really put into place what the current structure stands there
at the moment. So obviously, when it comes to a
new funding cycle for your client, for example, or a new
program set up, you can do quite a lot of work in terms of
sustainability, governments for the delivery of that set of
works. But actually when you're in the
cycle in the funding cycle, delivering those projects, if
those standards and specs and governance aren't sort of Down.
It's quite hard to make a difference as a delivery p.m.
So I think I think that the work that we can definitely do is
delivery PM's is you know, advising our clients.
When it comes to the new cycle, what we could do better and then
when that you Cycles in place, you know when you've got for
example, sustainable procurement targets to me when you've got
you know, a kpi is that you're monitoring contact us to, you
know, in terms of sustainable performance, making sure that we
hit those to the Out of our ability as is definitely way
that delivery PM's can make a difference.
But I think I think there's an interesting thing in that, you
know, people at top want to want to, listen to people who are
passionate about stuff at this. But there's a limited function
in which that happens. I also think sustainability is
one of those really tough ones that not a lot of clients have a
lot of buy into and as a result you know they need the
regulation to do that. So I think where I struggle to
feel heard is by perhaps you know governments or people
making regulations Allows us to do this allows us to deliver in
that way. If any of you found a way to go
beyond the 9 to 5 with an initiative beyond your actual
day job when it comes to sustainability or doing things
differently and actually been able to make a success of it
will be listened to as that does that.
Apply to any of you? Not necessarily outside of my
day job, but I do outside of my client work which is, you know,
95 5 days a week. I'm really trying to push Stuff
like internal training, internal awareness training.
There's a range of courses that, you know, project managers could
be more aware of stuff, like, sequels stuff, like, you know,
just the basics of scope one, two and three because I think
that knowledge is the best way to drive awareness within
clients, you know, being like, Oh, we offer this or this
Services out there or this tool is out there.
So trying to drive internal Learning and Development.
Mint is something that I'm doing and also trying to look at sort
of maturity of big players in the space on their
sustainability and how we can advise on that.
So it's kind of an extracurricular as you like it,
but it's not technically outside of my 95.
But yeah, I think education on that's really important but you
feel you can be proactive on something and actually get
something done about it. Yeah, for sure, I think.
Yeah. In terms of educating Project
managers of all levels and sustainability, that's something
we can definitely achieve. Jesus, the other two of you want
to add anything or yeah, I've got one from completely outside
by 95. Really, in my personal life.
I'm actually vegan and as, as my partner as, as my mom now, but
kind of showing people that, you know, the impact of not
necessarily going vegan. I don't kind of impose on other
people's lives. It doesn't, you know, doesn't
matter what people? it's completely preference, but
showing people the impact of maybe a meat-free Monday or, you
know, Taco Tuesday with With like, mushroom, instead of
normal men's showing people that they can, they can make small
changes in their personal lives. That make a huge impact.
Not necessarily just for Animal Welfare, but for the environment
as well, the impact on the environment of my enemy is, is
unbelievable, as well as not consuming Dairy.
So, I think without preaching in my personal life, I just try and
make it known, and I often cook for people to show them that.
It can be delicious and it doesn't have to be, you know, a
stab of meat on the plate with mashed potato or whatever.
It can be, it could be something more adventurous without harming
animals in any way. And also at the same time,
helping the planet, It's kind of a big question, but you work
with others Generations. I'm assuming on your projects
and within the organization, what I wanted to ask the three
of you would be. Can you identify any ways that
you see your generation doing things differently?
When it comes to work? Then older Generations do?
And if so what they are and also, if there's anything you'd
like the older generations of managers and leaders to
understand, And about those newer entrance to the
profession. What would that be?
I feel like this generation takes the saying, work smarter
not harder, quite literally, and it's not a bad thing.
I think it's a really good thing.
I've seen peers use technology to automate processes to make
systems more efficient and, you know, stop wasting time on
Monday night, ivities that you know take up.
Most of the Working Day, although it's not specifically
generational generational and in my experience, there are other
Generations that are more than willing to learn how to utilize
that technology to make their lives easier.
But that push I've seen often stems from kind of gen Z and
Millennials as for Noticing or getting the older generation to
bring in the younger generation and work with them.
I think talking is so important and being able to actively
listen to what, you know, new hires or younger Generations are
saying whether that's changes to how the corporate structure is,
or whether something's not quite working from them from a work
life perspective. Or they need something else in
their career to give them that sense of purpose and to give
them that drive and motivation. I think all of that comes from
active listening listening and the visibility of kind of
directors, CEOs, Etc, and availability of that
availability of those conversations is really
important. Can you give any plastic
practical examples of specific things that enable you to have a
conversation with those? More experience with you know
work do you do mentoring or reverse mentoring or anything
that works that others could use perhaps in their jobs.
Yeah, there's a few different ways.
There is a mentoring scheme at SSA and I really believe in
mentoring where it's so rewarding because not only can
you help others kind of find their path and teach them new
things but you can learn a lot of new things about yourself and
that's kind of mentoring and reverse mentoring all-in-one,
and whether it's, you know, finding out that your preference
of leadership style or something that you don't know about the
industry that you're in every day is a learning day, and I
think that's really important. Not only that there's and I'm
sure many corporations do this, but kind of all employee calls
where there's our visibility of senior leadership and
availability of submit questions and things like that.
I think that does work as well and to be honest from my
perspective I wouldn't really have an issue putting or trying
to find a slot for a meeting with someone on a director level
to chat with them about something that I think is
important. Me and should be important to
them as well and I think that approachability is really
impactful and has the pandemic affected.
Things has it made things more democratic, because by Nature
video calls, everyone is given equal space and everyone can see
everyone else. And perhaps, you'll meeting
people online that you would never have had in a meeting
face-to-face. Yeah, I absolutely agree really
with what you've just said. I think. the the impact of covid
and working from home, is that you're seeing everyone in the
house, whether they've got a blood background or a green
screen, or you know, someone's dog will jump on the camera or
Someone's Child will come and sit on their lap or someone's
doorbell will go and I think it just reminds you that the people
on your screen are people, whether they're, you know, five
corporate levels of blood above you or below you the their
people and their opinion matters if it matters to And then it
should be discussed if they want to raise it but I think.
Yeah. I think having that visibility
and having different people on your screen then you would have
in the room. You may be based halfway across
the world but you have that opportunity to talk to someone
that you wouldn't have had before and that's not minimizing
the negative impacts of working from home and covid of course,
but I think that's that's one of the few positive ones.
Mmm. Okay.
I shouldn't say anything. You want to talk about when it
comes to how your generation does things differently?
Yeah. It's also I think the big one
for me is that most gendered, I think technically, I'm a young
Millennial, but, you know, that sort of young Millennial, Jen
said, generation overwhelmingly, believe in climate change and
also more than that, something like 75% overwhelmingly believe
in climate. Engine and another 50% off at
75% think that we can't, you know, stop it, but we can do
something to mitigate it. So I think the fact that we take
it as a fact as a sort of undisputable fact, you know, we
want to do something about it, we have the energy to do stuff
about it is really positive, you know, and people who want to
sort of manage and Lead gen said, you need to harness that I
think the best way to harness that kind of energy is Is no
support our passion, you know, in these initiatives and the
best way to do that I found is you know act as a sponsor to
these groups maybe even if you don't understand it to the same
degree. Like I've been incredibly lucky
and have done a couple of years and corporate sustainability to
have a wealth of understanding. But you know even if you don't
understand it to the same degree, I think giving kind of
clear useful, deliverables and time scale stuff.
That's going to benefit. You know, how do you want what
this energy that we You know what format do you want to earn?
And what do you want us to do with it and then sponsoring and
supporting that energy? Because you know, we all have
that we have a time and energy to run with it.
So, so that's I think the big thing for that but I also think
in terms of the sort of Our Generation with the most
interconnected generation. But also we had the pandemic
where, I think a lot of people felt incredibly isolated.
So, I think, what's great about the new way of working is that
we've got this combination of working from home coming into
the office. And then, you know, a couple of
my colleagues are really happy to be back, full-time office
work. And as a result, you know, I
think we're very social generation and the combination
of being able to meet, you know, perhaps senior directors via for
these coffee connects. I think we do at work, you know,
even if it's 15 minutes, five teams or 15 minutes in the
office to get that visibility and to get that.
Of understanding of how they got to where they are.
And, you know, do they have you know, an interesting you is
really important as well. So I think that's something
we're trying to bring back. I know that there's there's
working from home, life is really great.
But I also think that for people who've been in, you know, you
New York school for the last couple of years who pretty much
work from home. The whole time, there is an
appetite to get back into the office when I would like to do
stuff in person again. Yeah.
So people people want to be sociable.
They do. Yeah.
Yeah, I think that that should be supported, you know, great
for team building and, you know, networking and stuff like that.
So our older managers and leaders good at knowing what to
do with your energy. No, kind of sense of urgency
about the climate and they are they good at knowing what to do
about that? How to use that effectively?
Or could they do it better? I think the big thing is that I
often find, I have a lot of ideas, but there's not a lot of,
you know, I We need specific kind of deliverables and
outputs. Like how is this idea useful to
you guys? How is it that I can put this
energy in this idea into something?
That's a useful PowerPoint, that's not just going to get
stuffed away and never looked at again, you know what I mean?
What's it, what's something that I can put my energy and that's
actually going to make a difference.
So I think having that kind of vision that roadmap planning to
2025 or, you know, further, okay?
This is what we want to achieve this percentage trained in this.
Example or or you know this amount of new hires with this
specialism or whatever if that's what you're trying to achieve
and you know you can translate that into something that you
know I'm passionate about as well.
Then we're happy, you know, to work towards that but I think
it's just I think I exactly as a young professional with a lot of
energy just needs kind of Direction.
Clear timelines and a sponsorship.
The Division. I think I'm very lucky that
where I work. I was a lot of vision so it's
given that but yeah. That's the main thing.
It's just how can we direct our focus into something that is
actually useful to society? Wider as well?
Okay. Brilliant and James.
What? I mean how do you feel your your
generation does things differently?
Would you agree? We'll station at Ashland have
said, would you like to know about what would you like her
managers and leaders who are older than you to know about
what your generation wants or needs some wore off?
Yeah, yeah, I completely agree with Stacey and Ashton.
I think they make great points. Yeah, I think I think we are
going further away from you. No more centralized Power
Systems and, you know, the sort of management methodologies and
work, it's actually a fresh out of the APM textbook.
There's a, there's an example of a theory by Douglas McGregor.
It's Theory. X and Theory Y.
And their motivational theories and Theory X talks about
managers motivating, their employees by supervision and,
you know, people don't actually intrinsically your enjoy work.
So then they must be supervised, where Theory, Y stresses reward
and recognition for employees empowering them to have a voice,
and a seat at the table. And the theory is such that the
employee does want to work and that they will.
I'll work. If, you know, then they're not
being strictly supervised, big brother asked.
And I think, I think partly the pandemic is helped in showing
that, you know, if people do work from home, then then they
are, they can be effective. And to make that that right, you
need to have communication, you know, you have to have, you
know, updates on how the individual is doing to achieve
their clearly defined, you know, goals aims and objectives.
If as as Ashley was saying as well.
So I think I think that's something that's happening.
A little bit more and it's not just the pandemic, it's the slow
moving towards empowerment of the people and against this sort
of sort of Rusty, generic capitalist structure.
So. And I think the more, the more
companies can move into that and just make sure that their
employees have morale and perhaps, you know, asking, you
know, Anonymous surveys which Which they have at my work as
well. So ask, what could we be doing?
Better is is good, you know, my company also has good and they
do, they do sort of mental health settlement seminars we
have access to counselors if we need them and I think that's
that's really fantastic. And again we've talked about
mental health in this this conversation earlier, but it's
really just being being open, open with that kind of thing.
You know, letting people Express Themselves being listened to,
you know, you know, movements with sexism racism and all of
this stuff we're slowly becoming more left as Generations.
Go on and and I think that's that's brilliant and it's a good
age to get into into the industry.
If I could text me on to the end of that, I completely agree with
James. I think something that's really
powerful that we should utilize more, especially in some of the
corporate world is reverse mentoring.
So, Obviously having, you know, mentoring is really important,
just from those martinis. There's my junior in terms of,
you know, drive and focus and interest in them, but I also
think as a generation, we are particularly up to speed with,
you know, diversity is very important to us.
Sustainability is very important to us.
Mental health is incredibly important to us and thanks to
the internet. You know, we have grown up
listening to people's experiences and listening to
people's stories and you know, that's something that that is,
you know, the The children who grow up with internet.
How about, you know, very much other skill of theirs and I
reverse mentoring, you can start to educate those in.
You know, perhaps people have seen your experience who
haven't, you know, heard those experiences or have the same
opinion. So I think, I think diversity
and mental health and sustainability are increasing
things that people look for. When they comment entry jobs,
you know, does this company have a commitment to diversity?
Does this company have a commitment to you?
No environmental sustainability and I think that, you know, they
could really learn a lot from what's important to us and
therefore it's important to I think, you know, the growing
Market in general and as so I suppose it goes again for you
know if you do want to suggest something to management it's not
to wait until you have the you know you'll offered the
opportunity to do it on a plate. And I think I think all managers
would would welcome any good manager and good CEO would
welcome you to put together a piece of Thing that you would
like to do to benefit the company concise, you know,
almost like an executive summary that you can quickly, present an
elevator pitch for an idea that you have.
I just say again initiative. If you've got that energy, put
it into something, create create yourself, you know, something
that you can take to somebody rather than waiting for the
opportunity. Because I think I think that
happens perhaps too much. We're nearly out of time and I
just wanted to thank you and if your time and your energy but
also if your honesty The and for sharing your perspective,
there's much food for thought and I very much hope that this
will give others within your own generation.
The ability to, to see just how important it is the work that
you do. And I'm just bowled over by your
sense of purpose and not being crushed.
Hi kind of pessimism which I wouldn't blame that.
You would have And thanks again for your practical suggestions
as well. So it's really appreciated.
Hope you've enjoyed it. Yes, been great.
Thank you, Emma. Thanks, Emma.
Thank you for having me. Thanks again to Stacy Ashlyn,
and James for joining us and to you for listening to this
episode of the OPM podcast, you can find out more about the nine
young leaders project featured in the Autumn issue by going to
AP, m dot org. Dot U k-- / project Don't forget
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