1 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,120 Hello, and welcome to the APM Podcast. 2 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,000 APM is the childhood body for the project profession. 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,880 I'm Emma Devita, editor of Project Journal and your host. 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,400 2024 is drawing to a close, and with a new year just around the 5 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,680 corner, here at the APM Podcast, we're in a reflective mood. 6 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,080 In this episode, we're going to look back at what we've learned 7 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:31,640 from the 25 episodes we've published this year. 8 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,320 We've covered everything from managing radioactive waste to 9 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,560 making documentaries for the BBC, but would have been the 10 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,680 standout lessons. The fastest moving story of the 11 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,400 past 12 months has been artificial intelligence. 12 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,440 As we heard in our last episode, AI has gone from future trend to 13 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:50,920 daily reality in the blink of an eye for many project 14 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,840 professionals. If you're not already using AI, 15 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,880 there's a good chance you will be by the end of 2025. 16 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,480 We urge you to check out our AI special to make sure you're up 17 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,200 to speed. But while the pace of change 18 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,880 remained a challenge in 2024, many of our podcast guests 19 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,840 reminded us that the fundamental principles of great project 20 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,360 management remain constant. If anything, as the world 21 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,080 becomes more complex, the need for disciplined project 22 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,840 management becomes greater. We've heard many stories on this 23 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,880 podcast of organisations that are reaping the benefits of a 24 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:24,600 professionalised project function. 25 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,920 Take the National Trust for instance, which was the subject 26 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,440 of a three-part series we've put out in the spring. 27 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:33,480 We're going to hear more from the Trust, as well as other 28 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,200 inspirational teams and project leaders across the course of 29 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,280 this episode as we revisit our favourite moments of 2024. 30 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,040 So grab yourself a mince pie and listen on. 31 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,000 In 2024 we published our first ever episodes recorded on site 32 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,880 at various project locations. Taking our mics into the field 33 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,920 and seeing projects up close gave us an amazing insight into 34 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,160 the hard work and dedication of APM members and partners across 35 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,880 the country. In January I drove out to 36 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:06,520 Gloucestershire to visit Dereham Park, a 17th century house and 37 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,479 garden near Bath, which recently underwent a £3.2 million 38 00:02:10,479 --> 00:02:13,320 transformation. The Baroque Star House had 39 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,120 fallen into disrepair before passing into the National 40 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,680 Trust's hands in the 1960s, and in late 2015 the project to 41 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,160 restore the house to its original beauty got the green 42 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:27,160 light On site at Dereham. After a tour across the house's 43 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,720 creaking floorboards and a stop at the Cosy Tea Room, I met the 44 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,320 trust's head of strategic planning projects and programme 45 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:36,560 management, Mike Hudson, who told me about the advantages 46 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,720 that the increased professionalisation of project 47 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,680 management had brought to the charity. 48 00:02:57,060 --> 00:02:58,860 Well, I mean, I wanted to ask you about, you know, what's 49 00:02:58,860 --> 00:03:01,580 advantages or benefits How has the increased 50 00:03:01,580 --> 00:03:05,020 professionalisation of project management within National Trust 51 00:03:05,020 --> 00:03:05,780 that she. Brought. 52 00:03:06,740 --> 00:03:09,460 We are now a project management organisation and we weren't when 53 00:03:09,460 --> 00:03:11,540 we started this. So people really appreciate the 54 00:03:11,540 --> 00:03:16,220 value that project management brings and the value that really 55 00:03:16,220 --> 00:03:18,820 excellent project managers can, can bring. 56 00:03:18,820 --> 00:03:21,640 And even the, even the language. So even when we first started, 57 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:23,680 you know, we talked about business cases and gates and 58 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,600 risk management and sponsors. And it was, it's like a new 59 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,440 language for people that didn't really get it. 60 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,920 And now it's, it's a common language that's common outside 61 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,880 of project managers and outside of the profession. 62 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,760 It's just a common language in the organisation, which I think 63 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:41,840 has made a kind of a real difference. 64 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,760 Where is National Trust now and what are your ambitions for the 65 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:49,040 future in terms of professionalising it? 66 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,000 I would say it's probably halfway between the middle and 67 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:57,280 the kind of world class end. So we we've certainly not got 68 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,000 there yet. Again, one of the kind of very 69 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,720 conscious piece, pieces of internal branding that I did was 70 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:06,440 the team I run we refer to as the Centre of excellence for 71 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:07,800 planning projects and programmes. 72 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,560 We deliberately chose that that wording not because it's a 73 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,080 destination we've reached, but it's, it's a kind of journey 74 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,839 that we're on. Why would we aspire to do that? 75 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:19,640 Well, we're Europe's largest conservation charity. 76 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,360 We've got more members than the people living in Norway. 77 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,920 So we've got, we've got nearly, you know, we've got nearly 78 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:31,240 6,000,000 members and we should be the best at what we do. 79 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:33,480 So we should be the best at delivering those sorts of 80 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,720 projects because we're entrusted with these charitable funds and 81 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,040 the scale that we are, the impact we can have. 82 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:45,720 Why wouldn't we aspire for that? It's not good enough to kind of 83 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:48,000 put up with second best in my view. 84 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,400 So that's, that's what I that's what I kind of push us forward 85 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,640 for. Another on site trip in the 86 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,600 summer took me to a totally different project Environment. 87 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,600 Westcott in Buckinghamshire is the home of Namo Space, where I 88 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,200 met a team who work on propulsion systems for space 89 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,080 rocket engines and thrusters. The airfield site seemed eerily 90 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,680 quiet compared to the bustle of Deer and Park, but once inside, 91 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,480 I found the team exceeded the same energy and passion for 92 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,200 projects that I encountered at sites across the country. 93 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:21,720 On the desk is a. Red. 94 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:22,520 Button a big. Red button? 95 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:24,040 Yeah, it does exactly what you expect. 96 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,520 Emergency sort, Normal abort. You can hit it now. 97 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:27,960 It's not going to do anything if you hit it now. 98 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:29,200 Can I? Yeah, absolutely. 99 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,080 In the following clip, Programme Manager Lucy Stock tells me 100 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,240 about the biggest project management lessons she has 101 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:39,360 learnt over her career in the space sector. 102 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,240 You know, one thing which I've learnt over years of project 103 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,600 management, which I think is probably the key is 104 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,040 understanding where to dive into the deep end, into the detail 105 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,880 and where you can not manage things so closely. 106 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,800 So with really big projects, there's different streams of 107 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,520 work going on that interact in different ways. 108 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,720 And I think it's being really sensible about the bits that 109 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,120 need to be micromanaged on a day by day, hourly basis. 110 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,120 You know, it's, it's, it's super critical, super complicated and 111 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:12,920 really getting into the weeds of those areas. 112 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,120 But you obviously, you obviously can't do that everywhere. 113 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,080 So it's understanding, depending on the stage of the project life 114 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,880 cycle and the type of project and the different streams of 115 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,680 work within it, which bits to really get into the weeds of and 116 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:26,640 which bits you don't. Need to how do you make a 117 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,360 decision like that? So for me, having a really 118 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,320 strong risk management process, so at the beginning of a 119 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:36,400 programme really delving into the high risk areas, what's 120 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,240 going to be the biggest issues that we're likely to see. 121 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,000 Obviously there's always those Black Swan events that you, it's 122 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,800 difficult to predict, but having a really strong risk analysis at 123 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,520 the beginning to try and understand where you might see 124 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,880 issues and if you do see issues, what their impact's going to be. 125 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,560 You might have an issue in one particular stream of work, but 126 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,520 actually it's not on the critical path or it can be 127 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,160 resolved easily. Standard products, you know, 128 00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:02,920 it's, it's not going to be an issue, but there might be 129 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,640 another area that's super critical on the timeline. 130 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,360 And it's a new development. And so it's really looking at 131 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:11,360 the project of the whole and try and breaking it up into into 132 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,400 chunks and understanding which bits you're really going to have 133 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,480 to spend your time focusing on. OK, and I guess that breaking up 134 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,480 is key at the beginning as well, putting things into clear work 135 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:27,200 streams so that you can manage that as well as visiting some 136 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,960 amazing places this year. I've also done plenty of virtual 137 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:33,120 interviews with inspirational people both inside and outside 138 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,320 the project profession. The one who stands out most is 139 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,160 Ross Atkins, who featured on our 100th episode, a milestone we 140 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,840 celebrated earlier in 2024. After over four years of the APM 141 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,480 podcast, Ross will be a familiar face to you as a senior 142 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,920 journalist and presenter on the BBC News Channel. 143 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,480 His official job title at the Beeb is News Analysis Editor and 144 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,480 Ross has made a name for himself through his Explainer video 145 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,560 series, where he takes some of the world's most complex issues 146 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,520 and breaks them down in a digestible and accessible way. 147 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,040 Communicating complex issues clearly and concisely to 148 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,920 different audiences is also a vital skill for project 149 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,760 professionals, and Ross shares some top tips from his book The 150 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,200 Art of Explanation on how to communicate with clarity and 151 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:22,680 confidence. When I'm thinking about all of 152 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,080 the different people I might need to communicate with on one 153 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,040 idea or another, I always stop and think, what would this 154 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,520 person like to know from me? Let's see it from their side. 155 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,240 What are the questions or the doubts or the pieces of 156 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,559 information that they would like from me? 157 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,039 And if I can provide them with that, not a guarantee that 158 00:08:41,039 --> 00:08:42,880 they're going to consume what Ioffer them, it's not a 159 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:44,840 guarantee they're going to agree with me. 160 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,920 But I am giving myself a good chance of giving them a lot of 161 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,280 information that feels relevant to them. 162 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,920 And so I've worked on big projects over the years in 163 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,040 different forms. I always try and think, even if 164 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,560 I'm dealing with 10/15/20 different people with different 165 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:03,720 interests in the project stopping and thinking, what do 166 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,600 each of those individuals want to know from me? 167 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:08,600 What would it be helpful for them to know? 168 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,520 And if I can then answer those questions, there's a good chance 169 00:09:12,680 --> 00:09:14,880 that they're going to feel what I'm offering is relevant. 170 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,360 And if they feel it's relevant, they're much more likely to 171 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,760 engage with it. Have you got any advice? 172 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:25,280 Or top tips and verbally delivering information and also 173 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,240 dealing with difficult comments or. 174 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,040 Feedback or questions that people. 175 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,200 Ask. Well, I think in the case of if 176 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,680 you're going into a meeting, whatever the circumstance where 177 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:39,400 you're likely to be asked questions that could be 178 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,640 challenging or difficult to answer. 179 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,080 I mean, that's something that all of us experience in the 180 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:46,920 workplace, not in a bad way. It's just quite correct that in 181 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,880 lots of circumstances our ideas and our plans are challenged and 182 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:52,560 discussed. That's completely normal. 183 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,280 The thing that I try and do, and you learn this from doing 184 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,720 interviews in the news, is it's good to try and anticipate what 185 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:01,160 you think you're going to be asked. 186 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:07,520 So if I'm, if I'm being interviewed myself, such as in 187 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:11,040 this situation, I'll definitely stop and think in advance what 188 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,640 are the questions I'm likely to be asked. 189 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,240 And in fact, when I was preparing for this book to come 190 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,560 out, I wrote down all the different questions I thought 191 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:21,680 that could come up in media interviews and then work through 192 00:10:21,680 --> 00:10:25,400 how I'd like to answer them. So you can anticipate some of 193 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,160 the things that would that might, that might come up. 194 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,560 Regular readers of Project will be familiar with Suzanne 195 00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:36,640 Madsen's column where she answers burning questions from 196 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,760 the Project community, often on issues related to leadership. 197 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,880 Suzanne is also an award-winning author, with her books The Power 198 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,920 of Project Leadership and How to Do the Inner Work coming highly 199 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,280 recommended. She joined me on the APM podcast 200 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:54,600 earlier this year to discuss secrets to leadership success. 201 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,360 In the following clip, she explains why a heroic approach 202 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,200 to leadership is a trap that project professionals should 203 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:06,040 avoid. I think it is this piece about 204 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:12,520 the relation and leading through others and not being this hero 205 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:15,080 project manager, if we're talking more project specific, 206 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,840 who feels that I have to fly in and save everything and get 207 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,600 everything done. And if nobody's stepping up, 208 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,280 then I will step up. And, you know, I put my Cape on 209 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,840 and I just sort it all out and my, my managers and clients will 210 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:30,840 love me. And they do because we all want 211 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,080 a, a, a hero to come and sort it all out. 212 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:38,560 But that's, that's, that's a pitfall, right? 213 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:42,440 We need to shift out of that gear of the fixing and doing 214 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,560 into empowering others. How can I create other leaders? 215 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:48,800 How can I coach? So it's, I think it's the same 216 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,400 things as we just talked about before, but instead of telling, 217 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:59,760 I need to really take that tiny step back and create the space 218 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:01,480 for others. And that comes through having 219 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,720 the conversation, it comes through asking more questions. 220 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:06,520 How can we do this? How can you do that? 221 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:08,640 What support do you need from me? 222 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,800 It's it's a gradual process of me stepping back and allowing 223 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,080 others to step up and step forward. 224 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:17,800 Which I'm assuming is a more sustainable. 225 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,720 Approach to leadership anyway so you've always got people who. 226 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:25,080 Who are not scared to make decisions or have some autonomy 227 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,040 about what they're doing, some ability to go ahead and and fix. 228 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,640 Stuff so that. Sounds sensible to me. 229 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,840 Is that actually in the real world? 230 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:34,640 Is that quite, quite a common approach? 231 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:38,200 Or are things still relatively hierarchical? 232 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,480 Or is there still much? Of this kind of hero. 233 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:42,480 Leadership style going. On. 234 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,400 I see quite a lot of it and I think there are some reasons for 235 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:48,720 it. It's because we're always up 236 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:52,200 against the deadline. There is more and more change. 237 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:58,240 There is people are moving at such pace, there is such high 238 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,920 demand on people. I think even I just unbeliev 239 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,800 it's, it's hard to imagine there can even be more pressure on 240 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,320 people now than there were 5-10 years ago, but I think that is 241 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,400 the case. Our final highlight comes from 242 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,200 Timon Deyong, who was the keynote speaker at the APM 243 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:17,840 conference back in June. Timon is the founder of a think 244 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,000 tank specialising in future human behaviour and societal 245 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,840 change and the implications for leadership and business 246 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,440 strategy. His clients include Morgan 247 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,080 Stanley, Vodafone, IKEA and Nike. 248 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,120 Timon is a fascinating speaker who manages to inject a sense of 249 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,080 humour as he tackles some of the most alarming problems affecting 250 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:39,480 society today. These are the big picture issues 251 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,960 that project leaders need to know about to say at the top of 252 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,480 their game. Here he is talking about the 253 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,640 Poly crisis, which defines the uncertain times we're living 254 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:52,560 through. It's very important to realise 255 00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:55,720 that it's something some managers, leaders have had some 256 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,240 form of crisis management course. 257 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:00,560 So just quite a bit of knowledge I see in many organisations 258 00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:03,360 about how do people respond to a crisis situation. 259 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,080 But the Poly crisis is something different. 260 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,160 So it's it's good for people to realise this is a different 261 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,440 situation. People feel differently, they 262 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,360 behave differently, they do their decision making 263 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:13,160 differently. If you don't understand that, 264 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,560 you're going to be frustrated. Things will go slower than you 265 00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:18,840 think. If you look at a normal crisis. 266 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,120 So thinking back, for example, the 1st wave of COVID or when 267 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:25,520 the Ukraine war just broke out, you see that the whole society 268 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,200 is going into the same emotion, shock, horror. 269 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:30,280 Then they go into action mode and we're all going to 270 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,520 collaborate and we're disappointed that it's not going 271 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:34,320 fast enough. So we're going through the same 272 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,600 emotions, which is actually easy because we're all shocked. 273 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,840 We're all going to action mode and applaud the keyword. 274 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:41,520 So that is everyone is moving through this. 275 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:44,680 This is, it's called the disaster response cycle for 276 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:46,520 society. That's easy. 277 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:51,680 The whole team will be in shock. What we see now is that people 278 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,320 on one hand are like, hey, we're still here. 279 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,760 Yeah, we're doing this podcast right now when we'll be at the 280 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:57,200 conference. Like, great, we're having such a 281 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,600 good time. But then you open your news app, 282 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,720 you do some doom scrolling as we go, that these days you think, 283 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,480 oh, my God, you know, the world is doomed. 284 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:05,760 It's the end of the world, as we know. 285 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,040 But then you have a great call again or a cup of coffee. 286 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,480 You think that's great? We're still here and people hop 287 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:13,880 from, hey, we're still here. We're doing the podcast. 288 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,920 We're future focused professionals towards this is 289 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:18,840 the end of the world. They look at this climate news 290 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,000 and 80% of all fish in rivers, which I just read this morning 291 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:25,080 has disappeared the past 40 years. 292 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,360 I think it was. And I think, OK, I mean, there 293 00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,280 will be no life in our rivers anymore in another 20 years. 294 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,960 What's the point? So people are all over the place 295 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:36,880 with their emotions. And it might be that if you are 296 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,200 a leader of a team, one of the things you have to do is find 297 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:41,760 out where my people, what do they need? 298 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,320 Someone needs a little bit of encouragement because they're 299 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,720 not feeling well or you know, their energy is low. 300 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,880 You know, I might you give them these directions or I'm 301 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,800 encouraging them this way, but 10 minutes later, an hour later, 302 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,000 the next day, they might feel different and the other way 303 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,280 around. So one thing this needs from 304 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,720 from from project managers where they have people involved in the 305 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,360 project, which is virtually all projects. 306 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:09,440 But if you're managing people, your empathy skills, your EQ 307 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,040 skills should be a lot higher than in, let's say the good old 308 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,360 days before COVID, before the Poly crisis. 309 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,320 You need to be constantly tuning in with the people around you. 310 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:19,640 Where are you and what do you need? 311 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:22,120 And you should be flexible in say, all right, you need no 312 00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:24,640 encouragement today, but tomorrow you feel bad. 313 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,080 I, I need to adapt and, and work with you in a different way. 314 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:32,560 And this is asking a lot of managers and and that they're in 315 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:40,000 the Poly crisis well. That concludes our wrap up of 316 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,600 five things we learned in 2024. There were many more we could 317 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,120 have picked and we're also interested to hear yours. 318 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,960 How did your approach to project management evolve in 2024? 319 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,520 What new skills and insights did you pick up and how are you 320 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,480 preparing for 2025? Let us. 321 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,120 Know in the. Comments if you're a Spotify 322 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:03,480 user or e-mail us at APM Podcast at thinkpublishing.co.uk. 323 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:06,920 We'll be back in the new year with many more episodes, 324 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,720 including a celebration of five years since the launch of the 325 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,680 APM Podcast. In the meantime, we hope you're 326 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,800 able to enjoy some much needed rest and reflection time over 327 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,440 the festive period. See you on the other side. 328 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,960 This podcast has been brought to you by APM, the chartered body 329 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,400 for the project profession. For more information on APM, 330 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,000 visit apm.org.uk.