1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,800 Welcome to the IPM podcast. APM is the childhood body for 2 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,800 the project profession. My name is Emma divita and I'm 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,300 the editor of project apm's quarterly journal and your host. 4 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,400 I've invited three project professionals who are here to 5 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,400 talk about what it's like to be an introvert in a profession 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,100 that on the surface, at least appears to favor the extrovert, 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,800 this situation, leaves many Introverts having to fake it and 8 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,800 to suffer the consequences. So isn't it time things change 9 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,800 here to share their experiences and offer their advice. 10 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:43,800 Our Alex Constantine consultant at P cubed, Claire, Hornsby a 11 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,400 project manager in strategic partnering programs at BAE 12 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,200 Systems and Natalie Tolbert. Our manager for Alchemy where 13 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,900 she consults and digital transformation projects for 14 00:00:53,900 --> 00:00:59,800 public sector clients. Welcome everyone. 15 00:01:00,500 --> 00:01:02,500 First by way of introduction, I think. 16 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:06,400 Would each of you mind saying a little bit about your role and 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,100 the kinds of projects you work on. 18 00:01:08,100 --> 00:01:11,100 So Alex, do you want to go first? 19 00:01:12,100 --> 00:01:17,500 So, I am a senior principal consultant for Mig sop cubed, we 20 00:01:17,500 --> 00:01:21,200 are Specialists project management consultancy. 21 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:28,200 So we work with clients on, portofolio programs, and changed 22 00:01:28,300 --> 00:01:33,000 and pmo gigs. My background is, I'm not 23 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,500 industry-specific. So, I've worked across most 24 00:01:36,500 --> 00:01:40,200 Industries. So, for example, I'm currently 25 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:45,700 working with a client, client in the real estate area previously, 26 00:01:45,700 --> 00:01:49,300 I was working with a telecommunications client so 27 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:54,300 very varied client based Thank you, Claire. 28 00:01:54,300 --> 00:01:57,000 Would you like to introduce yourself and tell us a bit about 29 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,800 your role? Yeah, so I'm clear Hornsby, I am 30 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:06,500 a project manager within the head office within BAE Systems 31 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:13,400 of which for Bae for 26 years and have been in project 32 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,500 management. Probably about sort of 23 24 of 33 00:02:16,500 --> 00:02:18,700 those. The the role that I mean 34 00:02:18,900 --> 00:02:22,100 currently is looking at improving project. 35 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:27,500 The processes and how we deliver I guess better outcomes 36 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,100 specifically to our mod customer. 37 00:02:31,900 --> 00:02:34,700 But the intention is that the benefits are then felt across 38 00:02:34,700 --> 00:02:37,800 all projects to all customers. Thank you. 39 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:40,500 Natalie welcome. Do you want to tell us a bit 40 00:02:40,500 --> 00:02:43,800 about your role and projects you're working on? 41 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,300 Yeah, no problem. I'm see how I'm Natalie. 42 00:02:47,300 --> 00:02:51,000 I work with an SME. Consultancy firm called Alchemy 43 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:53,900 at the moment. I am in manager, I've got a 44 00:02:53,900 --> 00:02:59,500 split roll so I work deployed on client contracts, doing project 45 00:02:59,500 --> 00:03:03,300 management and controls in digital transformation projects 46 00:03:03,300 --> 00:03:07,400 mostly across the public sector at the moment and I also work in 47 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,900 our bid Factory. So I also manage and write 48 00:03:10,900 --> 00:03:13,400 proposals to windy work for the business. 49 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:19,100 So I've been in project management sort of officially 50 00:03:19,100 --> 00:03:23,100 for three and a half years. Now prior to that I was 51 00:03:23,100 --> 00:03:26,700 accidentally project managing when I was so used to be a 52 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:30,000 research scientist before, switching things up and entering 53 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,300 the P3 I'm space. So, it turns out, I was 54 00:03:33,300 --> 00:03:37,100 accidentally project managing my research, throughout those four 55 00:03:37,100 --> 00:03:39,400 years. So, unofficially, seven years in 56 00:03:39,408 --> 00:03:41,700 project management, officially three-and-a-half. 57 00:03:42,700 --> 00:03:44,200 We're all gathered here today to talk. 58 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:49,600 About being an introvert in the project profession, you all 59 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,800 think of yourselves as introverts. 60 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,500 But what does that actually mean in everyday working life and and 61 00:03:56,500 --> 00:03:59,600 what's it feel like to be an introvert in the project 62 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,000 profession? So Alex I'll ask you to be brave 63 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:07,600 and go first. It's interesting because you 64 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:12,100 come across people quite frequently with who perceive 65 00:04:12,500 --> 00:04:17,300 project managers to be the people that lead from the front 66 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:23,200 go out, you know, tell everyone what to do, and get things going 67 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:28,700 and get things moving. And, and I'm glad to say that 68 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,700 there are not as many people like that around that anymore. 69 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,200 Because if that's the expectation, then that can be 70 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,000 quite intimidating because it doesn't come natural. 71 00:04:41,700 --> 00:04:44,000 So do you mean that you're expected to be this kind of 72 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,600 gung-ho extroverted leader? That's what it means. 73 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:49,700 That's what people think it means. 74 00:04:50,100 --> 00:04:52,500 It does to. Yeah, because you are effect a 75 00:04:52,500 --> 00:04:56,200 project manager is effectively a project leader there. 76 00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:01,900 The person who are expected to take something and create an 77 00:05:01,900 --> 00:05:05,200 outcome and it comes Responsibility, you know, and 78 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:09,900 accountability very often to to deliver whatever the project is 79 00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:15,600 set out to deliver. And I think if you have people 80 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:20,100 who are naturally extroverts than they kind of often expect 81 00:05:20,100 --> 00:05:24,100 that that leadership Position will be done by an extrovert 82 00:05:24,100 --> 00:05:27,800 person or in an extrovert way, which doesn't come naturally. 83 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,000 It doesn't mean that it does that I think. 84 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,000 Yeah, I think every extrovert every introvert. 85 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:36,000 Can be extrovert or have an extrovert features, right? 86 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,700 It doesn't mean that we are always quiet or always in the 87 00:05:39,700 --> 00:05:41,900 background or whatever it may mean to people. 88 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:45,100 You know, it's not a fixed State. 89 00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:47,100 It's just the preffer natural preference. 90 00:05:47,500 --> 00:05:50,100 We are what's your natural preference in the way you work? 91 00:05:50,700 --> 00:05:58,200 Well, my natural preference is I like working As much as 92 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,600 possible, you know, in smaller groups are one to one. 93 00:06:01,300 --> 00:06:04,900 So, take an individual approach with people build consensus, in 94 00:06:04,900 --> 00:06:08,200 that way, and work with stakeholders in that way, and 95 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:09,900 then bring larger groups together. 96 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:15,300 After that, in order to you know align people into a specific 97 00:06:15,300 --> 00:06:16,700 Direction. Let's put it that way. 98 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,500 Whereas others may feel more comfortable just, you know, get 99 00:06:21,500 --> 00:06:25,200 everyone in the room and you know, let's hash it out and find 100 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:30,400 a way, right? That, you know, I find more 101 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,900 difficult and personally, I would probably, you know, making 102 00:06:33,900 --> 00:06:36,100 decisions off the cuff. It's not something that I 103 00:06:36,100 --> 00:06:39,900 naturally like doing, I prefer to step back have a think about 104 00:06:39,900 --> 00:06:41,600 it. Probably informed myself and 105 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,800 then and then do it that way. Okay, that's an interesting 106 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:47,600 Insight. Well, how about you, Claire? 107 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:48,900 What's it? What's it mean? 108 00:06:48,900 --> 00:06:52,200 To be an introvert in your sort of everyday, working life and 109 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,700 how do you prefer to work? I guess, my initial thoughts are 110 00:06:56,700 --> 00:06:58,900 that. I'm not sure that it feels any 111 00:06:58,900 --> 00:07:03,700 different to anybody else in that, you know, an extrovert can 112 00:07:03,700 --> 00:07:07,000 sometimes feel anxious or unsure. 113 00:07:08,300 --> 00:07:10,900 And I guess as well because I'm an introvert, I don't know how 114 00:07:10,900 --> 00:07:16,800 an extrovert necessarily feels, and I guess personally, I like 115 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:22,400 to plan my weeks, but I like to mix a mix up those engagements 116 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:26,300 days with the thinking days. So I make sure that I've got 117 00:07:26,300 --> 00:07:31,200 that balance through the week because effectively, you know, 118 00:07:31,300 --> 00:07:36,000 it's how I get my energy so I don't get my energy through 119 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:41,100 presenting to a load of people. I get my energy through sitting 120 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:46,000 reflecting and then sort of coming up with a considered 121 00:07:46,300 --> 00:07:48,700 thought. And you know I guess that's 122 00:07:48,700 --> 00:07:54,000 similar to what what Alex was saying if I've got a 123 00:07:54,008 --> 00:07:58,100 particularly We busy week with lots of truffle, lots of 124 00:07:58,100 --> 00:08:00,700 engagements. I need to make sure that I've 125 00:08:00,700 --> 00:08:04,600 then got the downtime to, to be able to recharge. 126 00:08:05,900 --> 00:08:10,400 I can't do, you know, sort of weeks and weeks away, and then, 127 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:13,900 you know, sort of getting home and then having to do stuff at 128 00:08:13,900 --> 00:08:16,900 home as well, it doesn't stop me. 129 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:22,300 You know, being able to present or have big meetings or get a 130 00:08:22,308 --> 00:08:25,400 load of people in a room. It just means means that I need 131 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:28,700 to prepare for it and I need to make sure that I've got enough 132 00:08:28,700 --> 00:08:33,000 in reserve to be able to do it and then enough dying down time 133 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:37,100 afterwards. How do you prefer to interact 134 00:08:37,100 --> 00:08:42,600 with a team? Then it depends on on the team. 135 00:08:42,900 --> 00:08:45,500 So if it's I mean, I'm fortunate, the team are working 136 00:08:45,500 --> 00:08:47,800 at the moment, we're all introverts. 137 00:08:48,700 --> 00:08:53,500 So we all know to be able to give each other space, but 138 00:08:53,500 --> 00:08:58,100 equally when we get together, it's a really safe environment 139 00:08:58,900 --> 00:09:02,400 and, you know, we can, we can have those discussions, we can 140 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,700 bounce off each other and it's You know, it's really good being 141 00:09:06,700 --> 00:09:11,700 sort of face-to-face, sending a team together and if it's, it's 142 00:09:11,700 --> 00:09:19,100 then sort of wider wider team and, you know, sort of other 143 00:09:19,100 --> 00:09:24,600 stakeholders, I do prefer the sort of 121, you know, similar 144 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:28,600 to what Alex was saying that individual engagement and then 145 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,200 getting everybody together. But as I said earlier, I mean, 146 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,400 I'm sort of all so happy. If we just, if the only 147 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:40,000 opportunity only option is to get everybody in a room, then 148 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,500 let's get everybody in a room. Because it's the outcome. 149 00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:47,200 That's not it's the outcome. That is important. 150 00:09:47,300 --> 00:09:51,000 Not necessarily the way it's done and unless they have about 151 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,500 you has it? Well, was it mean for you to be 152 00:09:53,500 --> 00:09:55,600 in interpreting them in your everyday? 153 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,600 Working life? Yes. 154 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,600 I'm just thinking about this question before. 155 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,800 It's sort of encouraged me to reflect a lot. 156 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,000 And actually, I'm at a point now, where I feel I feel in 157 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,700 control and I feel comfortable with the fact that I'm an 158 00:10:08,700 --> 00:10:12,200 introvert, but I had this realization actually Early 159 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,000 stages of my career. Particularly when I was starting 160 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,100 out as a grad, actually I really I didn't like that. 161 00:10:18,100 --> 00:10:22,000 I was introverted. So especially when you can see 162 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:25,900 that those around you are energized by doing a 163 00:10:25,900 --> 00:10:29,600 presentation or they're looking forward to hosting this Beast of 164 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,000 a workshop that they're doing in that afternoon. 165 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,300 And actually, I'm sat there thinking, oh my god, what have I 166 00:10:35,308 --> 00:10:36,600 done? And I can't think of anything 167 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:38,400 worse. How am I gonna am? 168 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,400 I going to survive this P3 and world? 169 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,300 If our if You know, I can't do a workshop and every five seconds, 170 00:10:44,300 --> 00:10:46,800 I'm finding myself in a workshop at the moment. 171 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,000 I think, as Times Gone on, I've got more comfortable with the 172 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,400 fact that she had. Don't enjoy that so much and 173 00:10:53,408 --> 00:10:56,100 that's fine. We'll different and I leaned 174 00:10:56,100 --> 00:10:59,500 into what while it was two things, really it's 175 00:10:59,500 --> 00:11:01,500 understanding. What can I do to make that 176 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:05,700 easier on myself? And what B? 177 00:11:05,700 --> 00:11:08,500 Do I enjoy the again? I can lean into and as I've 178 00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:11,900 progressed I can sort of steer things more towards what I 179 00:11:11,900 --> 00:11:15,700 prefer. So forcing those sort of more 180 00:11:15,700 --> 00:11:19,100 one-to-one relationships and being Being a bit more proactive 181 00:11:19,100 --> 00:11:22,000 and going and engaging. Somebody want to 1 instead of 182 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,500 waiting until you're in a room full of people being deliberate 183 00:11:26,500 --> 00:11:30,700 and how I use my energy and how I plan my time and how I 184 00:11:30,700 --> 00:11:34,300 maintain my social battery sometimes. 185 00:11:34,300 --> 00:11:36,800 How does it, what does this look like in everyday life, for me? 186 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:40,600 It's drawing down on that reflective nature of being an 187 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:43,300 introvert, but being a bit selfish with it and reflecting 188 00:11:43,300 --> 00:11:45,900 on how I'm doing. And how my social battery is how 189 00:11:45,900 --> 00:11:49,800 my energy has and Trying to understand what's in my control 190 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,400 to tweak called a new throughout the week, to get me through it 191 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,000 and to get all the important stuff done for my clients 192 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,600 because ultimately client comes first. 193 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,900 I can't just been off of Workshop because my client needs 194 00:12:01,900 --> 00:12:05,200 that I'm there to provide, you know, Top Class service and 195 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,100 that's what I always Endeavor to do. 196 00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:11,000 So what are the things that I can control and can tweak to 197 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:15,200 enable me to perform at my best? You start to talk a little bit 198 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:20,400 about the problems that being an introvert could raise in work. 199 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,200 Alex, if I could go back to you what problems has been an 200 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:30,800 introvert raised for you, kind of personally and perhaps with 201 00:12:30,900 --> 00:12:33,900 with other members of your team or other stakeholders. 202 00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:41,400 The biggest issue I had which is act which, which annoys me, and 203 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,800 I always feel really guilty about it is. 204 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:51,600 If my workday depleted me to the amount where I don't kind of, 205 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:54,200 don't really want to spend time with family, and I just want to 206 00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:57,300 like have a bit of time to myself and that makes me feel 207 00:12:57,300 --> 00:13:00,700 really guilty. So the moment, you know, I come 208 00:13:00,700 --> 00:13:04,300 to a point where you know, I come home and I kind of go I 209 00:13:04,300 --> 00:13:09,000 can't face This, that that's a real big problem for me because, 210 00:13:09,700 --> 00:13:14,100 you know, the hours that I have with my kids and with my wife 211 00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:18,900 are absolutely precious. So, one of the big things that I 212 00:13:19,100 --> 00:13:24,000 try to do is I try to not let it get to that point. 213 00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:29,900 For me, it's, you know, simple things like taking 5 to 10 214 00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:33,800 minutes during the day a few times, just to go out, get a bit 215 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,700 of fresh air, have a bit of A walk. 216 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:39,500 If it's particular stressful, breathing exercises, or a bit of 217 00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:43,200 mindfulness, something like that, so it doesn't need to be 218 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,700 major things. So it's really about creating 219 00:13:45,700 --> 00:13:50,900 that space to be on your own and to reflect and just relax. 220 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:52,700 Yeah. Reflect and recharge, I think 221 00:13:52,700 --> 00:13:55,600 it's the right word because I think, you know, we used the 222 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,200 word depleted a few times, you know, already in in this session 223 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,200 and I think that that really kind of really resonates with me 224 00:14:03,208 --> 00:14:05,700 as well. Is that becomes The point during 225 00:14:05,700 --> 00:14:08,600 the day where you are just depleted and you need to 226 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:13,500 recharge, do you mean depleted by social interaction? 227 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,000 Yes. If I'm in meetings all day and 228 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,600 you know, having to, you know talk and engage with groups of 229 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:27,100 people and probably fight my corner on more than one occasion 230 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:32,400 facilitate. And and and there comes a point 231 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:38,200 where, you know, the battery is just You know, depleted and the 232 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:42,000 worst thing that can happen for me is leaving it to the very end 233 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,000 of the day, so that there's no opportunity to recharge until I 234 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,600 get home. And have you found working with 235 00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:52,100 other project? Managers of the team members who 236 00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:58,700 are not introverted, or expect you to behave in an extroverted 237 00:14:58,700 --> 00:15:00,600 way, what's your experience of that? 238 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:05,300 So, I'm lucky in the fact that within, you know, The company 239 00:15:05,300 --> 00:15:10,000 now work this. They are extremely inclusive so 240 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:13,800 I have never had a problem in that respect here being a 241 00:15:13,808 --> 00:15:15,400 consultant or project management. 242 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:18,800 Consultants you know, I do Faceoff to clients quite 243 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,500 frequently and some of them and some people do come with that 244 00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:25,800 preconception of a project manager needs to be a certain 245 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:30,800 way and that does pose a challenge, I am happy to report 246 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,700 the that most people are mostly interested in. 247 00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:42,000 Outcomes and it just takes a little while to get them focused 248 00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,200 on yes with achieving the outcome. 249 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:48,000 We are progressing. We are getting two to deliver 250 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,700 40. We're delivering what you expect 251 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:56,300 and they stop thinking about how they wanted to livered one of 252 00:15:56,300 --> 00:16:02,900 the things that another part of our business introduced is, I 253 00:16:02,900 --> 00:16:05,900 started creating a slide, which is kind of The Alexander 254 00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:10,500 nutshell slide which is effectively, you know, it 255 00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:13,100 effectively, just has kind of three columns about, you know, 256 00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:16,300 this is how I'm at my best. This is how I like to 257 00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:18,100 communicate and engage engage with people. 258 00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:21,800 And, you know, these are a few important things about that. 259 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:24,600 You should know about me. Well, because the things have 260 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,200 you got on there. It's effectively, kind of a 261 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,900 summary. Like, for example, you know, I 262 00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:33,800 let people know that, you know, if I had a difficult meeting, 263 00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:35,800 you might find that. I'm just going to step out for 264 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:39,100 10 minutes and then come back and check to you after. 265 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,200 So, for example, and just just just to set that expectation 266 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,000 off. This is how I this is how I am 267 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,500 at my best and that then opens the conversation about with 268 00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:52,100 with, with clients and other people about, okay? 269 00:16:52,100 --> 00:16:54,900 This is how I held out their best, and then we can find and 270 00:16:54,900 --> 00:16:58,100 work together on on, you know, helping each other to be at our 271 00:16:58,100 --> 00:17:00,500 best. Pretty good idea. 272 00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:02,700 Really good tip. Thank you. 273 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,500 Claire. What challenges are issues has 274 00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:09,700 been an introvert raised for you in your work. 275 00:17:10,900 --> 00:17:16,800 The key one that that came to mind is, is around meetings and, 276 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:21,099 and, and particularly, if you're in a forum where you've got 277 00:17:21,099 --> 00:17:26,599 particularly dominant people and, and, and it goes back to 278 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:30,500 the earlier point, that people automatically assume that 279 00:17:30,500 --> 00:17:33,800 project managers are these. These dominant leading from the 280 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:41,000 front kind of people that the people who sit back Wait and 281 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:46,600 consider and are sometimes not heard or, you know, the, the 282 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:52,700 sort of wallflower in the room. And, and I've very much been 283 00:17:52,700 --> 00:17:55,800 that person who's been sat in the room with something. 284 00:17:56,500 --> 00:18:00,200 Well, something I've considered really important or you know, 285 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:06,700 really value add to say but I've been too scared to say it and, 286 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:11,100 you know, it sort of probably goes back to a Classroom 287 00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:13,900 environment, you know where, right? 288 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,700 Who knows the answer to this question and you scared to put 289 00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:18,100 your hands up in case you're wrong. 290 00:18:18,100 --> 00:18:21,600 And so, you know, I was very much sit in the back of a 291 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:24,300 meeting and not say anything, just in case I was wrong. 292 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:29,300 And, and, and the other bit is again in a meeting. 293 00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:33,800 When you've got those dominant voice is being able to get a 294 00:18:33,808 --> 00:18:40,200 word in edgeways because I'm not a natural shouty person, so I'm 295 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:46,400 not Not you know a table Banger. I'm not going to stand up and 296 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:51,500 make my point heard you know get my point across but equally I'm 297 00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:54,300 not going to sit in a meeting and put my hand up and say oh 298 00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:56,400 excuse me do you mind if I talk now? 299 00:18:57,100 --> 00:19:01,500 And so it's it's sort of getting that balance and and also 300 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:04,300 getting that trust of the people in the room. 301 00:19:04,700 --> 00:19:08,300 That now, I'm here for a reason you've invited me to this 302 00:19:08,300 --> 00:19:11,700 meeting for a reason. Because I've got something to 303 00:19:11,708 --> 00:19:16,400 contribute and it's having that self-confidence too. 304 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,500 Well, they wouldn't have invited me if they didn't think. 305 00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:23,600 I had something to contribute. Have you found a way to make 306 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:28,500 yourself heard in meetings? I have two ways of dealing with 307 00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:32,000 it. One is its of waiting for the 308 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:38,000 Gap in conversation and sometimes that Gap just doesn't 309 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:43,900 appear in which case you, you know, it's a case of Physically 310 00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:48,800 leaning forward in the meeting. So, you know, if you sit, sit 311 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,400 back in your chair and you've got your sort of arms folded in 312 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:58,600 front of you, then you're automatically not as present and 313 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,700 at the table as you could be. So it's very much a right 314 00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:04,400 leaning forward. I'm going to get the attention 315 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,000 of the person, in fact, I'm doing it now. 316 00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:09,700 You know, I'm going to get the attention of the the person who 317 00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:11,700 I want to interrupt or who's speaking. 318 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:19,900 And the other the other approach I've taken is finding a friendly 319 00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:23,200 person, within the meeting, or, you know, knowing who's coming 320 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:28,600 along to the meeting and who's a sort of a collaborator. 321 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,900 So, and having that conversation with them. 322 00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:32,700 So, right. Okay. 323 00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:35,000 You know, what's, what's the structure of the meeting? 324 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,100 What's the topic or? Well, I think I can contribute 325 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,700 here here and here. So if I haven't said anything, 326 00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:46,100 Then, you know, can you sort of try and get me a sort of 327 00:20:46,100 --> 00:20:50,400 opening? Do you prefer to kind of have 328 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,400 virtual meetings or to do work on know what's your preferred 329 00:20:54,400 --> 00:21:00,500 way of communicating? Yes, I'm at my ideal is is 330 00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:04,900 probably sort of 80% virtual 20% face-to-face. 331 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:10,500 I always surprised myself when I have the face to face meetings, 332 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:16,000 how much I enjoy them and how much I get out of them, you 333 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,700 know, the virtual environment. It's really good for, you know, 334 00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:24,900 that sort of get your head down and start getting things done. 335 00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:33,500 But the face-to-face I always find is quicker to get a 336 00:21:33,508 --> 00:21:39,100 consensus and to get an outcome, then in a virtual world just 337 00:21:39,100 --> 00:21:41,700 because people feel more accountable when they're in the 338 00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:46,300 room, You know, it's easier, it's easier in a virtual 339 00:21:46,300 --> 00:21:48,500 environments, they are yet. It's all right, I'll do that 340 00:21:48,500 --> 00:21:52,900 after the call and then accidentally on purpose, forget 341 00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:57,000 about it. Defined it easier to contribute 342 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,800 to virtual meeting and to think about Zoom calls. 343 00:22:00,100 --> 00:22:03,400 Yes, it is. I guess I use a couple of 344 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,800 techniques and depending on what platform you use in, there's 345 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,700 obviously you know, the chat function, but that relies on 346 00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:15,100 somebody actually reading it. You can put virtual hands up. 347 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,200 I use that quite a lot, but again, it relies on somebody 348 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,600 going. Okay, class got her hand up 349 00:22:23,300 --> 00:22:29,100 otherwise, As rude as it sounds, I do find it easier to 350 00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:34,000 interrupt. And in, you know, in a virtual 351 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:40,400 environment and I'm not really sure why, probably, because 352 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,000 there's nobody physically turning in the meeting room to 353 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,100 stare at you. You know, you can sort of chip 354 00:22:49,100 --> 00:22:54,600 in, you know, over a microphone or even if it's on video and 355 00:22:54,600 --> 00:23:00,000 it's not quite as daunting. That's really what what kind of 356 00:23:00,008 --> 00:23:04,500 issues has it has been an intra race for you and have you tried 357 00:23:04,500 --> 00:23:08,500 to overcome them. So I think the biggest one for 358 00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:12,500 me is sort of that social battery life that Alex spoke 359 00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:17,300 about, and it's actually it's been weirdly nice and reassuring 360 00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:20,300 to hear somebody else speak about the exact same issue that 361 00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:23,500 I have quite regularly. And sometimes I think you can 362 00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:27,400 feel a bit, the almost mugged off in the sense that you use 363 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:32,000 all your social battery at work. And then the day finishes and 364 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,500 your mates textures are, should we go to the pub to do this 365 00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:36,600 that? And you're like actually no. 366 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,500 I can't think of anything worse right now. 367 00:23:38,500 --> 00:23:44,600 I just need to sit and recharge and get myself sort of back to 368 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,800 back to absorb good state of energy right now because I'm 369 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:53,800 exhausted and it's a really strange flavor of exhaustion and 370 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,700 tiredness that comes when your social battery runs out of 371 00:23:56,700 --> 00:23:59,800 juice. It's This mental sort of 372 00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:04,300 frazzled nurse in your brain and a bit physical to. 373 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:11,100 So that one's huge for me. Have you ever faked? 374 00:24:11,100 --> 00:24:13,700 Look being more? Extrovert, have you ever tried 375 00:24:13,700 --> 00:24:18,000 to tried to hide your kind of natural preference? 376 00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:21,500 Not to be the kind of center of attention, or not to be the loud 377 00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:24,800 one in the room. I think I saw my knee-jerk 378 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,000 response to that is basically yeah, every day. 379 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:33,200 And I don't, I don't view it as sort of hiding it necessarily, 380 00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:36,200 but sometimes you have to put a mask on to get the job done. 381 00:24:38,100 --> 00:24:41,200 Alec thing and Claire. Have you ever tried to fake 382 00:24:41,700 --> 00:24:44,500 being an extrovert? Is that something you feel that 383 00:24:44,500 --> 00:24:48,300 you've needed to do? I would kind of, you know, maybe 384 00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:52,900 step away from the word faked, right? 385 00:24:52,900 --> 00:24:57,700 Because the reason why I say, I say that is being extrovert, is 386 00:24:57,700 --> 00:25:04,400 not a fixed state, right? So extroverts, like or introvert 387 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,700 is not being is not a fixed date. 388 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,400 Introverts And be assertive, instrument, introverts can be 389 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:16,500 the life of a party or whatever other, you know, label, you 390 00:25:16,500 --> 00:25:22,800 would like, to put, we can do it, it just maybe requires fast 391 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,100 to, you know, get there in a different way than extroverts 392 00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:30,600 word. So for me, it's not for me, it's 393 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:36,400 not about faking it for me, it's just mindfully putting myself 394 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:42,400 into position of amplifying. Those skills that are more 395 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,000 natural to extroverts at times when it's required to do so. 396 00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:51,000 Thank you, Claire. How about you did you push 397 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,500 yourself to kind of copy? How others are in a meeting or 398 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,100 to try and live up to the expectations, that others might 399 00:25:59,100 --> 00:26:01,600 have of how you need to be in. A project team. 400 00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:07,300 I guess the short answer is is yes because some sometimes you 401 00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:10,900 just you know, you have to and I think you know, sort of very 402 00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:17,200 much echoing Alex is point. I can be extroverted if I want 403 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,200 to be And, but it takes an awful lot of energy. 404 00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:27,200 So, you know, my natural state is to, you know, it's a party to 405 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,000 sort of find somebody. I know when just stand and chat 406 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:34,600 to them quietly in the corner, and that doesn't mean that I 407 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,500 can't get up and stage and present to, you know, 300 408 00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:46,400 people, because I can, but I just, I need to Steel myself to 409 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:50,000 to get there almost. You know, sort of power poses in 410 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,100 the bathroom beforehand. And then I just need to go and 411 00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:57,700 sit in a dark and dream for a little bit afterwards, just to, 412 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,000 to do that recharged. Yeah, it's just, it's not my 413 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,400 natural state. What needs to change about the 414 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,600 project profession? And the way project teams worked 415 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:19,200 in order to allow introverts to thrive because Our preference is 416 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,500 to engage people in smaller groups or 121. 417 00:27:23,300 --> 00:27:26,700 That creates a really strong foundations for building. 418 00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:32,700 Trust with stakeholders. Because trust is built between 419 00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:36,800 individuals. I think we are very good at that 420 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,700 naturally of kind of creating that that relationship, that 421 00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:44,800 more intimate relationship with stakeholders with clients 422 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:50,800 customers and so on. But I also think that if you're 423 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:55,400 always that person who leads from the front, you might not 424 00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:57,700 always be aware of what happens behind you. 425 00:27:58,900 --> 00:28:04,400 And you know, if you're the kind of the person that you know, 426 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,700 doesn't need to leave from the foot and you, you maybe have to 427 00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:11,900 be kind of observation skills to pick up certain things. 428 00:28:11,900 --> 00:28:15,800 That others may not. So, you know, I think, you know, 429 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,800 we observe and see things understand and kind of digest 430 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,300 Dynamics, understand the Dynamics, and then can kind of 431 00:28:24,100 --> 00:28:28,400 adapt ourselves teams and others too. 432 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,000 You know, to take advantage of those Dynamics. 433 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,900 What needs to change to allow you to capitalize on your 434 00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:40,400 strengths at work? What advice or thoughts, would 435 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,500 you give to other project? Leaders of project managers 436 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,400 about having introverts on their teams and giving them what they 437 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,800 need to do? The best job they can. 438 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,900 Two things may be number one, you know, even though you know, 439 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,600 extrovert versus introvert is not part necessarily of the 440 00:29:00,900 --> 00:29:03,800 being inclusive organizations in discussion, right, being 441 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,200 inclusive organization, you know, doesn't does not 442 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,600 necessarily limit you to being inclusive, two different genders 443 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:15,900 or neurodiverse people, or whatever else it is. 444 00:29:15,900 --> 00:29:20,600 Simply means that you're creating environments where no 445 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,800 matter What kind of person you are? 446 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,500 You can be at your best. So, you know, continuing to 447 00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:30,100 invest into that and I'm defying that, you know, will definitely 448 00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:32,600 help everyone including and introverts. 449 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:39,100 The other thing, I'll probably say is that for me, you know, 450 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:44,900 courage, which I think, you know, has been a theme, a few 451 00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:47,100 people, you know, all of us brought that out that it 452 00:29:47,100 --> 00:29:49,000 requires courage to do certain things. 453 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,500 And I think courage often is mistaken as something that comes 454 00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:58,100 from within someone. For me personally, there are 455 00:29:58,100 --> 00:30:03,700 very few people, many many less than we actually think they're 456 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,000 that are naturally courageous and can just bring the whole, 457 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,700 their whole selves, you know, into the workplace, no matter 458 00:30:11,700 --> 00:30:15,100 what the environment. I think, for the majority of us, 459 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:21,900 me included, actually. Courage comes from having a 460 00:30:21,900 --> 00:30:25,600 community and a safe space. And the support of others. 461 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:30,500 So others give us permission to be our whole selves and 462 00:30:30,500 --> 00:30:34,300 therefore, we are able to be ourselves and I think that's 463 00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:37,100 that's true for the majority of people whether that's that 464 00:30:37,100 --> 00:30:40,900 support comes from. We don't see it because it comes 465 00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:43,600 from family, or from friends, or whether we see it because it 466 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,300 comes from the work place. Either set. 467 00:30:46,300 --> 00:30:50,600 Either way, we create this safe spaces for people to, you know, 468 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,600 make mistakes, learn experiment. So they learn about have the 469 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:59,600 opportunity to learn about how they can be at their best and 470 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,500 that's incredibly important I think Claire. 471 00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:07,300 What, what, what strengths do you feel introvert spring to 472 00:31:07,300 --> 00:31:12,000 team and how can there be better supported? 473 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,300 I guess it's that that that diversity. 474 00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:21,900 So in in terms of, you know, if you've got extroverts on the 475 00:31:21,900 --> 00:31:27,300 team or you've got no male females, it it's having that, 476 00:31:27,300 --> 00:31:32,100 that balance, and that diversity of thought, diversity of view. 477 00:31:32,700 --> 00:31:37,300 I guess the problem is sometimes get is that the introverts don't 478 00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:41,100 manage to get their points across and therefore, you don't 479 00:31:41,100 --> 00:31:44,300 end up with that diversity of thought because the, the 480 00:31:44,300 --> 00:31:47,800 introvert isn't isn't putting that point across. 481 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,000 Should it be that the person who's running that meeting be, 482 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,000 you know, knowing of that and should therefore invite people, 483 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:59,200 they know, to be kind of quieter than others to contribute? 484 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,400 Would that help? I think, I think it's 485 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,000 everybody's responsibility. Leti, actually, I think I think 486 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:11,200 you know, we should all be I guess be able to read the room 487 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:16,900 and to understand what other people are doing, what their 488 00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:19,000 preferences are. You know what? 489 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:23,500 They've got to contribute and and, you know, if you've got 490 00:32:23,500 --> 00:32:28,900 people in a meeting or in a workshop, they're there for a 491 00:32:28,900 --> 00:32:31,800 reason. And if they're not there for a 492 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,100 reason, then they shouldn't They're at all because we've all 493 00:32:34,100 --> 00:32:40,400 got better things to be doing and but it's I think it's a pain 494 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,200 everybody to make sure that everybody else is contributing. 495 00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:51,000 And you know, it's it's upon me as an introvert to know when I'm 496 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:58,400 being introverted and But equally, I don't necessarily 497 00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:02,200 want somebody to go. So Claire, what do you have to 498 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,300 say on the matter? Because then it's you know, it's 499 00:33:06,300 --> 00:33:10,300 everybody had turning to stare at me which I will just go home. 500 00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:15,600 Nothing thanks. So it's allowing allowing the 501 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:21,600 introvert that the time to think any advice you would give to 502 00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:25,200 sort of project managers of project leaders about how to 503 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:29,200 make introverts feel, I guess we'll comfortable. 504 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:36,100 I like preparing, I like to know in advance, you know what's 505 00:33:36,100 --> 00:33:38,500 going to happen, what the topics are. 506 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,400 And, you know, the sort of structure of the day of the 507 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:49,200 meeting, I love an agenda. So, if I have an agenda and I 508 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:53,100 love to know, you know, for for this podcast, you sent out the 509 00:33:53,100 --> 00:33:57,000 questions in advance, that was great, because it meant that I 510 00:33:57,300 --> 00:34:02,700 had the time to prepare doesn't necessarily mean that I'm 511 00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:06,200 getting my point across but it made me feel better coming into 512 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:14,500 this and having that thinking time and I think it's in that 513 00:34:14,500 --> 00:34:23,300 sort of meeting public open environment its It's not so it's 514 00:34:23,300 --> 00:34:28,600 for other people to consider the introverts and and consider. 515 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,900 Well, I'm not necessarily going to get a response straight away 516 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,900 so I'll let them mull it over and then when they're ready, you 517 00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:39,100 know, even somebody saying oh you know, Claire can you have a 518 00:34:39,100 --> 00:34:41,300 think about this? I'll come back to you later. 519 00:34:42,100 --> 00:34:45,800 That gives me that thinking time, but it also allows 520 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:50,600 everybody else to know that I am thinking about it. 521 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,400 And I'm not just sitting here quietly. 522 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,400 Natalie, what how can project teams better? 523 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:00,700 Capitalize on the strengths of introverts? 524 00:35:01,300 --> 00:35:06,200 Bring one of the biggest things that leaders and project 525 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,200 managers can do to help. Introverts is it's going to 526 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,900 involve a little bit more time and that that's what makes us 527 00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:15,100 really difficult because we're all strapped for time. 528 00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:18,500 But what I mean by that it's taking the time to really get to 529 00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:22,800 know how your team works. And initially that might be 530 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,800 having to have a few 12 ones with So I'll start with that. 531 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,300 Default of well, let's get to know new members of my team. 532 00:35:30,300 --> 00:35:32,900 Let's do a one-to-one instead of in a group setting because let's 533 00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:35,200 let us assume that they're most comfortable, the one to one and 534 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,400 then if when you talk to them you understand the ways of 535 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,000 working actually. They're happy and a bigger group 536 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,400 setting etcetera than great. You can work a bit more 537 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:48,600 efficiently in that way. And also to so particularly 538 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,400 when. So again, in preparation for 539 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,500 this is really reflecting on to how I was when I first started 540 00:35:53,500 --> 00:35:56,100 my career. And actually, if somebody asked 541 00:35:56,100 --> 00:36:00,300 me to start what's your preferred ways of working that 542 00:36:00,300 --> 00:36:02,400 or how would you describe the ways of working? 543 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,400 I don't know that I really understood that but the start of 544 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,800 my career didn't really know how I like working what my 545 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,200 preference was. I knew how I liked working in a 546 00:36:12,207 --> 00:36:16,900 lab setting but that's very different to Salting and project 547 00:36:16,900 --> 00:36:19,400 management. So I think some of it as well as 548 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:24,900 leaders and PM's just really taking the time to be intuitive 549 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:29,900 and help someone on that journey and sort of observe what they 550 00:36:29,900 --> 00:36:35,000 think somebody's preferences and sort of strengths are and then 551 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,500 having that conversation, especially if the individuals 552 00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:39,400 really early in their career, I think that could be really 553 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,800 helpful. I'm being open to the idea that 554 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,500 actually that you need to muddle through that together in terms 555 00:36:45,500 --> 00:36:48,900 of establishing somebody's preferred ways of working and 556 00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:52,600 how they Thrive. And then what comes hand in hand 557 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,000 with that is thinking about sort of constantly of considering the 558 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,900 format of how you're running your project. 559 00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:04,700 So particularly and Consulting your project team can change and 560 00:37:04,700 --> 00:37:08,400 grow quite a lot as you have members come and go more 561 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,600 Consultants drawing. Be that from your own company. 562 00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:14,100 P'nay other companies Etc. And that means you're always 563 00:37:14,100 --> 00:37:18,800 getting a different balance of you know how people best work, 564 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,600 what they prefer etcetera. So even just being open and 565 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,600 checking in with. People wrecking saying is this 566 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,700 working for us now? Do we think that this format of 567 00:37:27,700 --> 00:37:30,100 meeting is getting the best out of everyone? 568 00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:33,600 Is this what everybody prefers or actually shall should we 569 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:36,200 change this? What suggestions do people have? 570 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,600 And being open to refreshing and updating so that ultimately, 571 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:42,900 you're getting the best out of each and every person who's part 572 00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:47,200 of the team. I hopelessness of world will 573 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,500 gather kind of Confidence from what you've all contributed and 574 00:37:51,500 --> 00:37:53,200 the advice that you've given it spin up. 575 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:57,500 See pleasure to have bring you all together and to to learn 576 00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,300 what works and what and what doesn't. 577 00:37:59,300 --> 00:38:02,100 So it just leaves me to say. Thank you very much for your 578 00:38:02,100 --> 00:38:04,300 time. Thank you. 579 00:38:05,100 --> 00:38:06,600 Thanks for having us. Thank you. 580 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,600 Thanks again to Alex constant. I'm Claire Hornsby and Lassie 581 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,400 Tolbert for joining us and to you for listening to this 582 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,900 episode of the APM podcast you'll find out more about being 583 00:38:21,900 --> 00:38:23,700 an introvert in the project profession. 584 00:38:23,700 --> 00:38:27,000 In apm's Project, journals spring 2023 issue. 585 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,500 Don't forget to look out for more episodes or to rate and 586 00:38:30,500 --> 00:38:32,400 review us wherever you get your podcasts. 587 00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:35,500 We welcome you to get in touch with your comments feedback and 588 00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:39,600 suggestions by e-mailing us at a p.m. podcast at think. 589 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:43,600 Papa Chewing .co.uk. This podcast has been brought to 590 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,700 you by APM the chartered body for the project profession. 591 00:38:47,500 --> 00:38:51,200 For more information on a p.m. visit, a p.m. doctor org.uk.