1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,800 Right. So right now we're in the stalls 2 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:15,400 of the auditorium. So here is where you probably 3 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,120 see some of the projects we've we've delivered recently. 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:23,520 It's a lot of red velvet and gills and the lights are what 5 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,280 catches you and gives the atmosphere. 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,280 Yeah, so the the house lights as we call them. 7 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,920 Welcome to the APM podcast. APM is the chartered body for 8 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,280 the project profession. My name is Emma DaVita and I'm 9 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,840 the editor of Project APM's quarterly journal and your host 10 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:51,160 for this podcast. I go on location to bring you 11 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:54,520 the story of what it takes to deliver a big renewal programme 12 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,160 at one of EU KS most important cultural institutions. 13 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:08,600 I'm here in rainy day in January at the Royal Ballet and Opera in 14 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,200 central London. For any of you who've come to 15 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,720 watch your performance here, you'll be familiar with the 16 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,400 sumptuous red velvet and gilt auditorium. 17 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,640 Behind the Scenes tells a different story of hundreds of 18 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,960 performers and backstage soft working way to deliver a 19 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:24,880 punishing programme of performances. 20 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,560 Today it's La Traviata. While they rehearsed and set up 21 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,720 for this evening's production, I'm going backstage to delve 22 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:36,360 into a £40 million ten year renewal programme to find out 23 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,000 about how it's being project managed, the challenges and what 24 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:44,120 it takes to make it a success. Royal Ballet and Opera is an APM 25 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,000 corporate partner so it takes project management seriously, 26 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,000 especially when it comes to the projects involved to replace the 27 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,080 ageing and increasingly failing backstage infrastructure. 28 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,400 All this project work has to carry on while the teams of 29 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,240 artists, creative and technical and front of health staff work 30 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:03,320 together to ensure the curtain rises on time, day in, day out. 31 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,520 This requires a level of mature project management skills, so 32 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,199 come with me to find out more part. 33 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,160 Of what we had to deliver was actually keep in the sense the 34 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:22,760 warmth. I go through the stage door 35 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,120 entrance to find Musa Halame, the technical estate renewal 36 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,680 programme lead, who reports to the CEO Heather Walker. 37 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,360 He joined in 2018 to work on the upgrade of the power fly system 38 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,320 above the stage, which is the structure from which all the 39 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,760 lighting hangs, and became the project that led to the five 40 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,120 year renewal programme to upgrade the 25 year old systems 41 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:45,960 that is being worked on right now. 42 00:02:48,640 --> 00:02:51,760 Way to make sure that we've got, so I've got oversight of the 43 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:55,560 Sage machinery side, the sound video broadcast and the lighting 44 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,560 side of it all. So I've got three PMS who look 45 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:00,880 after each of them specific areas and I've kind of got 46 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:05,000 oversight of everything. I try my best to prioritise 47 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,600 projects, budgets and so on, meet timelines, see where 48 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,760 there's efficiencies across the projects and try our best to 49 00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:14,400 kind of work together when we're, you know, for example, 50 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,480 working in the same areas that, you know, both projects are 51 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:22,120 aware of each other's scope and just try and find efficiencies 52 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,920 that way. I ask him what he enjoys about 53 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:28,600 the work. I think it's the excitement of 54 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,760 that challenge, knowing that I feel like when we take a project 55 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:35,040 on, even when we're just in the concept phase and the 56 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,320 feasibility phase, we know we're going to deliver it. 57 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,280 We know there's going to be something new next season at the 58 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,880 start of the season that will be delivered and the journey 59 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,800 between now and then, we know it's going to be rough, but it's 60 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,680 it's achievable and we know we're going to end up with the 61 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:53,120 right product at the other end. So flexibility is, is very key. 62 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,960 I think you, you've got to be a quite a quick learner when it 63 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,320 comes to just learning different aspects of theatre, 64 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:05,840 understanding why it's important to people, understanding why you 65 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:09,920 can't interrupt their operation, understanding the impact. 66 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,520 So I think that's it. So it's all about understanding 67 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,440 the bigger picture, having that ability to learn it and have the 68 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:18,600 communication skills to go out to people and actually ask what 69 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,079 they want and make sure that you arrange the right time. 70 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,160 You know, there's a certain pressure, having been there 71 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,280 myself, you know, when you're operating during a live 72 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:30,360 performance and something doesn't work, it just feels like 73 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,120 the whole world's watching you and you feel this immense amount 74 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:38,280 of pressure. And I think for a successful 75 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:40,320 project manager here, they really need to empathise with 76 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:44,320 that and understand that feeling and, you know, do their very 77 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,440 best to make sure that our end users never go through that. 78 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,240 Russo is working on the most critical part of the building, 79 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:53,600 the stage. When it's not filled with 80 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,320 performers rehearsing during the day for one, maybe 2 81 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,880 productions, as well as putting on an evening performance, it's 82 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,760 filled with everyone backstage who has a job to get done, 83 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,880 whether it's working on the lighting or moving props around. 84 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,640 That makes for a lot of highly involved stakeholders who Moosa 85 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:12,040 needs to keep on side in a collaborative way. 86 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,800 Communication is key, so I asked him how he approaches that. 87 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,640 I think it's face to face here, even though we try and send out 88 00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:23,840 like monthly status updates of each projects or what projects 89 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:26,600 are coming up. We share the full programme of 90 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:28,960 the renewals programme of what's happening in each year. 91 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,880 But yeah, it's, it's general communication going up, talk to 92 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:34,520 them about what will be happening. 93 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:38,520 And then we really like to get workshops in as soon as possible 94 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:39,840 so that people can actually have their input. 95 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:41,560 Because at the end of the day, we're delivering for them. 96 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,240 We're not deciding what they need. 97 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:44,360 They're telling us what they need. 98 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,760 And we're trying our best way to deliver that. 99 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,560 So it's keeping that sense of ownership maybe with them. 100 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,280 So even though they feel like they own that part of the stage, 101 00:05:54,280 --> 00:05:58,200 for example, which they do, we want them to own the process of 102 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,360 changing it too. So we we empower them in that 103 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,040 way, I suppose to tell us what they need. 104 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,320 The key objective behind it is really business continuity. 105 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:13,200 We don't want the stage to start where things have been 106 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,120 overworked probably over the years, components have become 107 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:19,600 obsolete. We've looked at that ourselves 108 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:22,560 and said, right, OK, well, how can we replace this in a manner 109 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:24,120 that won't affect the performances? 110 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:29,040 How can we improve things to meet today's standards at the 111 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,360 same time? So, yeah, it's a programme 112 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:36,360 that's focused pretty much on business continuity, increasing 113 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:38,760 resilience. We're definitely looking at 114 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,760 sustainability as part of obviously all the projects that 115 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:44,200 we do. It's particularly lighting and 116 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:45,640 we're trying to improve health and safety. 117 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,080 So again, we've got this advantage of having 25 years of 118 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,480 experience of people using the same systems and they can tell 119 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,800 us that it's all well and fun when it's working and we're 120 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,320 we're during the performance, but when we come to maintain 121 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,680 this, we can't get to this part or that part. 122 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,440 So we take that into consideration when we're doing 123 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,640 our upgrades. And yeah, I think the last point 124 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,760 that we always mention is obviously value for money. 125 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,680 We want to make sure that, you know, even the way we're 126 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,920 delivering it sometimes can be slightly more expensive because 127 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,160 we're doing it overnight. We're not doing it in a bulk 128 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,600 when we're doing it like just in a phased manner, but we just can 129 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,840 we justify that extra bit of cost and if it keeps the 130 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:28,760 performances going, usually we can. 131 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,000 The main benefit we're hoping to realise, and we've realised 132 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,720 already, but I hope to realise a bit more once we've done more 133 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,160 upgrades, is integration between different systems. 134 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,120 So everything is IP based, everything is on a network. 135 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:49,160 So to have them all talking to each other, all move away from 136 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:54,120 manual procedures really, and have tracking between machinery, 137 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:57,960 lights, video, sound, that's all something that's achievable. 138 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,520 It's already achievable now with some of the upgrades we've done, 139 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,240 but it will be even more achievable ideally with all this 140 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:08,800 new technology coming our way. With these upgrades, we'd like 141 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,840 to be able to have a virtual stage essentially where we could 142 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:17,000 plot anything with a creative once they're happy, that can 143 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,000 just happen on stage because it's just transferring files at 144 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:22,400 that point. You, you get the risk out of the 145 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,280 way earlier and the earlier you get rid of it, the better or the 146 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:27,880 early reduce the risk, the better. 147 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,320 And that's literally the only way we can work here. 148 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,559 There's there's no other way. There's no way we could just 149 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,960 turn up with a, you know, with the new systems, and fingers 150 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,080 crossed it works. As you might imagine, access to 151 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,960 the stage is extremely limited. Moosa and his team usually have 152 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,480 three weeks in the summer when the performers have a break to 153 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,120 get work done. Otherwise it's overnight work. 154 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,440 This makes for projects that are front loaded with the focus on 155 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,240 preparation, prototyping and risk mitigation so that when 156 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,920 they have the green light to get on stage, everything goes to 157 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:03,040 plan. The show must go on no matter 158 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:05,280 what. Deadlines can never slip when 159 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,640 tickets are sold and performers booked five years in advance. 160 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,840 We just really, really focus our energy on that, that initial 161 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,400 part, that design. I think that design phase when 162 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,640 we can, like it varies from project to project, but when we 163 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,880 can really focus on getting prototypes through the door, 164 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,000 showing them to stakeholders, getting their feedback. 165 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:27,680 And if you know, there's any tweaks or anything like that, 166 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:30,480 going back again and getting, you know, version 2, come 167 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,080 through the door, show everyone and really try and get that sign 168 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,600 off. Sometimes we push our limits, 169 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,640 our time limits because obviously you've got to get 170 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,440 signed off and then you've got to start manufacturing the 171 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,800 installation. But I think it's pushing them 172 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,680 deadlines and being realistic when you, when you draw out your 173 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:49,240 schedule to say, you know, I need an answer by this date and 174 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,120 here's my contingency, 2 weeks or so on. 175 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,760 But beyond that, you're not going to deliver the projects on 176 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,760 time. So it's being very aware of that 177 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,080 schedule. It's kind of almost dictated to 178 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,760 us in many ways because of the stage, but it's just working, 179 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,040 working around the stage schedule, making sure the 180 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,560 project schedule aligns. But we try and get the end users 181 00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:12,200 in and people that really know the schedule of the stage of how 182 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,520 long it takes to build a set, what's required. 183 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:18,000 So really the experts on the other side that are actually, 184 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:19,920 you know, putting the show together. 185 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,880 It is a hybrid approach of, you know, both kind of like the 186 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:28,440 waterfall linear approach and also, like I said, the agile 187 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,360 iterative kind of approach is also used. 188 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,480 Because I think especially when we're talking about prototypes 189 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:38,480 and design, that kind of front heavy approach to projects, we 190 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:43,240 really push no designs perfect first time around as much as we 191 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,960 try and input to that when it's, you know, on a screen and so on. 192 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,840 When we see the physical prototype, there's always 193 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,120 feedback. And sometimes it's, it's 194 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,720 literally like just a practicality of right, OK, 195 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:56,160 you've built this thing, it's perfect. 196 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,640 But now when I go up to the space to install it, I can't fit 197 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,320 my hand in to get a bolt in and say, all right, this isn't going 198 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,040 to work. So we need to rethink A bracket. 199 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:07,520 But it's trying to squeeze as many of them kind of suggestions 200 00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,080 in as possible before signing off the final, you know, design. 201 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,920 So that's to me quite an iterative process, which, you 202 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,320 know, a lot of people see it with software. 203 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:18,920 It's like, oh, go back, do that again. 204 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,440 We try and turn it around with just prototypes and you know, 205 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,320 once we've got something physically here, we're trying 206 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,080 our best to turn it around to the the product that we can sign 207 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,960 off as soon as possible. So then we can transform into 208 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:32,320 more of a linear process at that point. 209 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:34,040 And then we know what we're going to set. 210 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,040 We're going to place an order. Here's potentially our delivery 211 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:38,760 date and here's our installation date. 212 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:40,760 So yeah, it's a bit of a mixture of both, definitely. 213 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,720 Moosa reports to Heather Walker, the COO who is project director 214 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,360 of the Royal Ballet and Opera's Open Up project, completed in 215 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,200 2018 when the front of house was transformed to make it fit for 216 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:57,280 the 21st century. I'm very lucky, I think with 217 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,160 Heather, who I reported to the CEO, she's like very 218 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:02,240 understanding. She's got a very good project 219 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,200 background herself. So it's, yeah, it's a lot 220 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,240 easier. It's it's, it's a really good 221 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:08,720 culture. I've got to say, you know, 222 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,800 working here and it's, it's probably enabled me to become a 223 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,320 programme manager by being in this kind of environment. 224 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:19,120 I ask him what he enjoys about project managing in a place like 225 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:22,000 this. Like a lot of our backgrounds 226 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:26,480 are working on stage and new productions and the reason you 227 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:29,040 do it, it's like it's all about the evenings and the weekends 228 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:30,280 and people are like, why would you do that? 229 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:34,880 But once you put a show on and you do like what we call the 230 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:39,160 press night, the opening night, and the audience are loving it, 231 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,720 you get such a buzz. I don't watch as many 232 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,480 productions as I should, but it, it's really important to know 233 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,200 that like I read the show report every day. 234 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,880 So the show report is like at the end of every show, the stage 235 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,200 manager will, will send out like a, a report of, you know, how 236 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,800 the show went, what time the curtain went up, if there was 237 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,280 any, any changes to the cast, but also if there's any problems 238 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:01,640 technically on stage or anything like that. 239 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,680 So I read that religiously every day just to make sure. 240 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:07,080 And I, you know, to me, it's really, really important to know 241 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,400 that anything that we've upgraded over the years is 242 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,200 working and that there hasn't been any problems, any kind of 243 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,160 show issues. And it's, it's giving the 244 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,520 audience what they've come to see really that's, that's really 245 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,600 important. That's your motivation when 246 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,240 you're when you do the late nights trying to get everything 247 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,120 up and running, you know, it needs to be perfect. 248 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,960 You know, you know who The Who the audience are coming into the 249 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,640 Royal Ballet and Opera and what they're, they're kind of level 250 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,840 of expectancy they've got when they come to see a production 251 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,240 here, what sort of quality they're after. 252 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,440 So you definitely, yeah, you're pushing yourself for that 253 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:45,840 reason. Even if you're working backstage 254 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,200 and putting a show on, you've been part of the creative team 255 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:53,600 or anything like that, you get such a buzz out of seeing the 256 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:58,040 audience react to your effects. I think in projects we're behind 257 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,560 the technology that allows them to do that, but we wouldn't get 258 00:14:00,560 --> 00:14:03,200 the buzz at the same time, if you know what I mean. 259 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,840 So it's really important, like I said, to go watch some shows for 260 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,800 that reason to see, you know, for the project managers to 261 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:14,200 actually see what their hard work has enabled the other teams 262 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,320 to do and get the audience going. 263 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:20,160 From a project point of view. Like in the technical state 264 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,080 renewal team, we can definitely say, you know, you can say that 265 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,160 about all the products, sorry, all the productions. 266 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:29,880 It's we're involved in all of them, like making sure they all 267 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:31,520 continue. Like the stage elevators don't 268 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:33,680 work, there's no show, The lighting rig doesn't work, 269 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,760 there's no show and the comms go down, there's no show. 270 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,560 It's just they're all show stoppers. 271 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:44,960 And it's, and I think what we really need to be proud of is 272 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,680 the methodology, the way that we've delivered it without 273 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:50,880 interruption. We've gone from old to new. 274 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,360 So the show must always go on, as Musa says, but let's meet 275 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,320 George Townsend who can shine a spotlight on the lighting 276 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,400 upgrade projects that he's masterminding. 277 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:03,080 One of which was the task of swapping out all the 278 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,920 auditoriums, 960 Candelabra lights and down lights from 279 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,080 tungsten to LED. After a lot of research, 280 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:12,920 planning and prototyping, he swapped out a couple in the 281 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,680 auditorium without telling anyone be on the team whilst 282 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,880 they adjusted them to match what was already there. 283 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:20,440 After three months, no one could tell the difference. 284 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:25,480 So we basically hid them in the auditorium, didn't tell anyone 285 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:29,640 which ones they were, and we were tweaking the dimming curves 286 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:31,600 and things like that and the colour temperature and things 287 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,640 like that to match it as best we could. 288 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:38,760 So when we came to install, we already had a background of 289 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:42,960 testing and people had confidence in the products we've 290 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,040 chosen and things like that. So when we came to do it, we 291 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,680 were just replicating those little tests on a much wider 292 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:55,960 scale, lots of collaborative meetings, lots of prototype 293 00:15:55,960 --> 00:16:00,480 sessions and feeding that all back to the stakeholders here. 294 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,080 And we had sessions in the auditorium where we said, all 295 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:04,840 right, well, one of these candles is LED. 296 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:08,400 Can you tell me which one it is? Whilst Front of House had 297 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,600 experienced a lot of change during the open up project, Back 298 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:13,560 of the House has been dealing with the same tech and 299 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,680 infrastructure for the past 25 years. 300 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,960 Making change happen can be daunting, as Townsend explains. 301 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:22,600 There's two groups of people. I think there are, there are 302 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,160 people who are very much up for change and then there are people 303 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:28,280 who are a bit scared of it. And if you've got someone who's, 304 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,160 you know, been working in the organiser for 20 years, they 305 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,600 know how thing works and then you say I'm going to bring in a 306 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:34,960 new thing. Some people can be a bit fearful 307 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:36,960 of that. So we have to put in lots of 308 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,240 sessions where we're explaining what we're going to be doing and 309 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,600 why, but also training them on the new systems before they come 310 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,440 in. And that was really important 311 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,080 for us. Equally, we have all the artists 312 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,800 on stage and although lights in the auditorium is probably not 313 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,640 the thing they're most interested in, we do feedback to 314 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,160 the directors of the Royal Opera and the Royal Ballet and say in 315 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,400 the technical estate, these are the things that we're going to 316 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,200 have to start working on. This is how it might affect 317 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,079 productions and performers and the schedule and things like 318 00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:15,800 that. So it's as a building, we plan 319 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:17,599 our production as five years in advance. 320 00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:20,480 And there's lots of reasons for that because we share sets with 321 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,880 other opera houses, but obviously performers need to 322 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:24,599 know which Opera House they're in, where they're singing and 323 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:27,160 all that sort of stuff. So there's this real culture of 324 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,000 planning. And then the renewals team has 325 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,080 been created and we've just sort of dipped into that culture. 326 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,440 And it's, you know, same for us. We, we know that in two years 327 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,320 time we're going to need to do a thing. 328 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,760 Well, let's tell everyone now. Let's get it into the schedule. 329 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:44,960 Let's talk about how we might do it, how it might affect the 330 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,080 stage productions. The second project George has 331 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,400 been looking after is the updating of the production 332 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,680 lighting rig. They're the lights you see on 333 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,000 stage and all the systems that back them up and make them work, 334 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,920 he explains to me. It surpassed its lifespan. 335 00:18:01,120 --> 00:18:04,200 It was becoming very difficult to support and get spare parts 336 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,160 for because almost everything was discontinued at that point. 337 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,640 So it was time to upgrade. And that's a little more 338 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,600 difficult for us than it sounds because we have lots of 339 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,680 productions in our Rep that obviously are in storage and 340 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,920 they come back and we replicate the lighting design as it was. 341 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,240 But this was the first time we were going from a, you know, a 342 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:28,800 tungsten rig to an LED rig. So one of the big challenges was 343 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,880 we actually had to start re lighting our shows in a virtual 344 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,240 world in our visual visualisation suite in our 345 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,880 virtual Opera House. So we actually started 346 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:43,080 relighting shows before we bought the new lights. 347 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:47,560 The big problem we would have is if we went from an old rig to 348 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,840 the new rig and we didn't have a virtual space, we would have to 349 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:55,440 relight every show on stage. And to do that we would have to 350 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,280 add technical sessions for every show. 351 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,400 And if you added up the hours, it'd be hundreds of hours that 352 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:03,720 we don't have. We'd have to cancel 353 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:05,720 performances. Obviously we don't want to do 354 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,080 that. So we do all the backbone work 355 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:12,240 in the virtual space and then when we come to stage it's sort 356 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,800 of tidying it up and adding in the finessing and you might 357 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,240 tweak some colours and, and all that sort of stuff. 358 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:21,560 We had to be able to say right, how are our lights going to the 359 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,320 lights that we want to buy and purchase? 360 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:25,880 How are they going to look? We had to know how it was going 361 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:30,280 to be before we do it because we have a three-week maintenance 362 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,000 period in the summer. So the the bit we've done so far 363 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:39,120 is we've replaced our overstage lighting bands, which are 364 00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:41,760 basically our big metal structures that house that 365 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,000 permanent rig. We had to replace the actual 366 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,200 structures themselves because the old structures were too 367 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,640 heavy. If we took the new lights, which 368 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:53,960 of course are much heavier than the old lights because they're 369 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,560 not like cans with light bulbs anymore, they're basically 370 00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,320 robots, they weigh a lot more. We'd have been massively 371 00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:01,120 overweight for the winch capacity. 372 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,920 So we worked with a few companies, manufacturer in 373 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:10,280 Germany called Hof who make lighting trusses and things and 374 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,560 we designed custom structures with them and we had to get it 375 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,040 to the point that we basically would wheel them into the 376 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,560 building and install them in this three-week period. 377 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:25,880 This year we had four weeks, we had an extra week as a treat and 378 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:29,880 at the end of that four week period we go straight into the 379 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,600 next season. First show hits, the stage has 380 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,080 to work. So it's getting all of those 381 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:40,440 people together, getting your scope together, prototyping as 382 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,720 much as you can or you know, real world or virtual. 383 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,000 So by the time you get to the install you you're really 384 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:49,200 confident in what's coming through the door. 385 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,720 And at that point, we've put so much effort into planning the 386 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,720 install method as well. What are the secrets to success 387 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:00,920 to getting such a time bound project like this done, when the 388 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,280 usual workings of the organisation can never be 389 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,640 disrupted and when so many people fear the jeopardy that 390 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,680 this might cause? You know, comms is such a big 391 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:14,600 part of this and saying why you need to do the thing and how you 392 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,600 might do the thing. But we're still working on it. 393 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,440 Even if you're not quite ready to share the this is what we're 394 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:20,760 thinking. But you know, there's an 395 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,760 overview. Just getting that information 396 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:29,960 out, I found that enough people would sort of get on board that 397 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,880 the the people who were a bit scared would start to shift into 398 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,880 the group, like people would take them with them. 399 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,960 So it wasn't all on the project managers to pull people in. 400 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,240 The other thing we did that I thought was really good was in 401 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,640 terms of the production lighting project, we tried to involve as 402 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,040 many people who we could with the installation. 403 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,280 So the lighting team have actually helped build these 404 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,320 structures and, you know, put the lights on and they're the 405 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:56,640 ones who are going to be using it. 406 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:58,800 So it wasn't a case of we just wheeled it through the door and 407 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:01,160 went there you go. They knew what was coming. 408 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,320 They helped put it together so they understand how it works, 409 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,920 how it was put together, all that sort of stuff that really 410 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,320 helped. One of the biggest tools that's 411 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,240 been amazing for us is Microsoft Teams, because obviously not 412 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,120 only is it a tool where we can all get together in groups and 413 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,680 have video calls in various countries, but also, you know, 414 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,800 within our, our are sort of IT firewall. 415 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,520 We've we've allowed file sharing structures. 416 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,320 So if you take the lighting batons, for example, we had a 417 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,000 Teams channel where the structure manufacturer is 418 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,560 putting in drawings, the cable manufacturer is putting in 419 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,520 drawings, We're putting in our comments in feedback and we're 420 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,400 all working for the same set of documents rather than us being 421 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,080 the sort of people in the middle. 422 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,960 And you know, you come to me and I'll go back to you and say this 423 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,440 company said this. We're all just getting together. 424 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:53,920 We did a lot of like weekly phone calls and they might just 425 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,640 be half an hour and they were just in the diary. 426 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,920 But this project has a weekly phone call with these 427 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,800 manufacturers, these manufacturers for something 428 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,760 else. And we all just get together and 429 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,520 sometimes you'd all get on the call and go, there's nothing to 430 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,400 talk about this week. But we never took them out of 431 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,360 the diary. They might be 5 minutes, there 432 00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:11,200 might be an hour, but they, you know that every week on a 433 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:13,400 Thursday, those manufacturers are like, oh, I've got call. 434 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,400 We roll Opera House at 1:00. I asked him if there were any 435 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,560 other lessons he learned. That's another thing I say to 436 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:23,120 project managers, don't overload yourself. 437 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,480 Look at what's achievable in the space. 438 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,400 We definitely put a lot in last summer and our biggest lesson 439 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,000 was actually our capacity. Although we achieved everything, 440 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,440 it definitely had a a toll on us as a team. 441 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,000 Adam Lindsay is the Project Manager at Royal Ballet and 442 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,400 Opera who has spent his entire career within project 443 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,320 management, sorting out at the BBC as a graduate trainee, but 444 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,560 working across different private sector organisations including 445 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,720 Siemens, he is responsible for the comms renewal projects. 446 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,760 Here he explains what it's like working at the Royal Ballet and 447 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,560 Opera, and how he brought himself up to speed with an 448 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,440 entirely new sector, as well as his advice on how to make change 449 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,080 happen well. I've always been very clear on 450 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,800 having worked for companies that provide managed services is that 451 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,000 project work should never be in a position where it can impact 452 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,680 the services and the actual business that's that's trying to 453 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,840 operate. So the show must go on. 454 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:23,960 And people here tend to be risk averse, a bit resistance change, 455 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,360 as I think most of us are, but very risk averse. 456 00:24:26,360 --> 00:24:29,320 The, the schedule is so intense that people need to be able to 457 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,400 turn up on time, get on with their job with no delay. 458 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,840 Even a a short delay of a few minutes in the stage schedule 459 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,680 can have huge knock ONS throughout the rest of the day. 460 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,160 So it's a really intense place to work from that perspective. 461 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,800 And so everyone of course is very protective of their job and 462 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,160 needs to make sure that they're on that stage on time with 463 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:54,440 everything they need. So keeping those stakeholders 464 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,120 happy, making sure that we've identified them all. 465 00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,520 And it's not just people that are going to be impacted by 466 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,760 change, it's also people that think they might be impacted by 467 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:03,720 change. I think project management, the 468 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,360 the theory, the discipline, the training is great, but 469 00:25:06,360 --> 00:25:09,240 ultimately it's about getting people to effect change and 470 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,560 achieve things. So the people skills are so 471 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,720 important here. Most people are quite, quite 472 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,600 happy or at least accepting of change as long as you tell them 473 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,600 what's going on. What people don't don't like is 474 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,400 when a system or some process is changed, you know, under their 475 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,040 feet and without being consulted or informed. 476 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:34,880 That's not not everyone. Projects shouldn't necessarily 477 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,120 be run as a sort of a democracy, OK, You're going to have people 478 00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:38,840 in charge, you're going to have budget holders, you're going to 479 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,000 have the the senior management in the organisation who want to 480 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,320 effect that change. Not everyone at grassroots level 481 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:48,560 is going to have a say. That's just not how projects 482 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,720 are. But keeping people informed is 483 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,280 critical. What's great here is that people 484 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:54,600 are quite open. They will tell you their 485 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,440 concerns. There are very, very, very few 486 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,480 times people are going to sit down and just not give you any 487 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,520 feedback whatsoever. And you think this is either 488 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,320 going really well or they don't understand what's going on. 489 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:07,240 So the fact that I think on the systems level, talk about the 490 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,280 technology, because there's been so little change on some of the 491 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,760 systems I'm looking after specifically over the years, 492 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,240 people are now crying out for that change and are mostly are 493 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,600 really happy to engage. But also it was actually a 494 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,200 challenge for me because I had to learn a new language to work 495 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,760 here. Even simple things like learning 496 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,320 about stage direction. So what's stage left, what's 497 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:27,960 stage right? What's upstage and downstage? 498 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:29,560 I've never worked on a stage before. 499 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,680 There's a lot of parallels with delivering projects, but in 500 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,120 terms of this environment I never worked in. 501 00:26:34,120 --> 00:26:39,080 So what I tried to do was go out and shadow a few people in their 502 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,240 jobs as well. We're unusual in in the theatre 503 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,400 world in that we have our own broadcast facilities on site. 504 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,160 So just before Christmas we had a broadcast of Cinderella 505 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,600 Ballet. So I came along and was down in 506 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,360 the broadcast gallery and I was actually watching people 507 00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:55,360 operationally, operationally that night, seeing how 508 00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:57,160 everything connected together, who was doing what. 509 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,280 And it meant that when I went into meetings and started 510 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,560 discussing things with people, I had a better awareness of what 511 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,720 their day-to-day job was. And I think actually when you 512 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,520 show people that you're trying to learn about their world, 513 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,560 quite often that opens them up a bit and they feel like they're 514 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,200 being listened to, they are being listened to and are and 515 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,240 are happy to share, willing to share. 516 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,800 And most people, you know, are proud of their jobs and are 517 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,720 proud of the work they do, especially at the Opera House. 518 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,720 And I'm very happy to spend time with you, the small amount of 519 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,680 time that they've got describing things and explaining things. 520 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,080 So I was always keen to make sure that when I was in 521 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:33,400 meetings, I was learning about them rather than dictating to 522 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,560 them what was going to happen. And I was in a workshop with 523 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,560 some of the stage managers. And the, the stage managers are 524 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,000 the, are the people that sit just off to the side of the 525 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,200 stage during a show and actually directing everything that's 526 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,200 going on. And we did a workshop with some 527 00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:48,720 of them. And one of them asked me, you 528 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,960 know, is it your intention to do XY and Z? 529 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,200 And I said, well, just picking up on the subtlety of your 530 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,040 question, it's not my intention to do anything to you. 531 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:58,960 We've been asked to implement some change. 532 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,680 I'm trying to understand from you guys what you need. 533 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,440 And this is not something that's meant to be forced upon you. 534 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,600 It's meant to make things better, easier, more reliable. 535 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,400 Try to list out some of the benefits there were. 536 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,960 What does he think makes for a successful project culture? 537 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,440 Maybe it's a bit of a dark art, but but ultimately trust's 538 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,400 really important. And to build trust, you do what 539 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:23,960 you say you're going to do and then people trust you. 540 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,640 So if you can demonstrate that people will be allowed to do 541 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:27,960 what they say they're going to do. 542 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:30,040 You have to allow people to make mistakes. 543 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,120 Everyone's human. So it's important when the 544 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,480 mistakes are made that there's a learning process and you you go 545 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:36,520 back and say, well, what went wrong? 546 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:41,560 How could we do things better? But I've always been very 547 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,720 fortunate in working for other project managers or programme 548 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,520 managers who've given me the freedom to go off and plan 549 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,120 things how I want. But I've always been available, 550 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,880 made themselves available for me to go back and ask questions and 551 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,840 advice without feeling like they're micromanaging me. 552 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,080 So it is a balance. I'm not claiming to have the 553 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,840 answers to how to do that, but I'm fortunate in that the most 554 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,400 successful project teams I've been part of have all got that 555 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,840 balance right between allowing people the freedom to go ahead 556 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,920 and not be micromanaged, while also having the support and the 557 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,360 trust to be able to come and ask questions or support when they 558 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,720 need it. Let's find out more about what 559 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,800 he's working on. Yeah. 560 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,360 So I'm replacing the production communication system here. 561 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,000 So that system is used for all of the teams on stage to 562 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,000 communicate. So whether that be the lighting 563 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,200 team, the sound team, the stage team who are moving scenery 564 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,280 around, the flies team who are looking after anything that's 565 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:38,960 raised up in the air, whether that be scenery or curtains or 566 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,160 performers. Even the older systems are 567 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,080 really creaking, showing their age and some of them were 568 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,280 beginning to fail. Even though people's radios were 569 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:50,200 still working, some of the infrastructure and some of the 570 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,320 the technology down in the engine rooms was becoming really 571 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,200 unreliable. So it's important to do a 572 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,040 general refresh and replace those systems. 573 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,200 I'm run a 3 year contract to run a whole number of renewals 574 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,200 projects and that was the first big one that was kind of the 575 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,360 burning platform we called it because it absolutely had to be 576 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,920 done urgently. So that was a significant 577 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,240 technical installation. So a lot of network, a lot of 578 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,480 signal processing communications equipment had to be installed. 579 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,680 But most importantly it was going to affect a huge number of 580 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,920 users who are on stage every day using this equipment. 581 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,000 And so actually one of my learning points, something that 582 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,320 didn't go particularly well was just getting all of those users 583 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,000 informed and engaged early enough. 584 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,440 We were going at it from a sort of a top down approach. 585 00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:34,840 So the end users are, they could be stage teams, lighting 586 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,040 operatives, they could be people who are mixing the sound for the 587 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,080 show. They could be the costumes 588 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,520 department who are trying to get costumes to dressing rooms on 589 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:45,240 time. They could be the wigs, the make 590 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,120 up department. Because ultimately when the show 591 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:49,880 is ready to go on, everything needs to be in the right place 592 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,560 and happening at the right time. There's also the stage 593 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,720 management and the deputy stage management teams who are the 594 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,120 ones who are actually directing the show and are responsible for 595 00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,320 the all the activities on stage. So they have a station just off 596 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,480 to one, one side of the stage and it's critical that they've 597 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,440 got everything they need at the touch of a button and can 598 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:10,760 communicate with everybody. Although it went live in end of 599 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,200 August 25, the project's not due to close until June this year. 600 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,720 26. We've still got some. 601 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,320 One of the benefits of the project was that we would not 602 00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,920 just replace some ageing equipment, but also be able to 603 00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:25,000 bring some other teams onto the system who'd not had comms 604 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,960 before. So we have a second theatre 605 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:28,200 here, it's called the Linbury Theatre. 606 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,640 Not everyone's aware that the Royal Opera House has a main 607 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,080 auditorium and then there's a smaller studio theatre, about 608 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:35,280 400 seats. They've always had a separate 609 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:39,840 Comm system, but by doing this upgrade there's some benefits 610 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:42,400 that we can realise by integrating them, bringing 611 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,840 everything on board and now people will be able to roam the 612 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,680 building and work in either theatre but be on the same Comm 613 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,280 system. I asked him if it mattered that 614 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,240 he wasn't an opera and ballet buff before he started working 615 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,800 here. It's important, I think, for 616 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,320 project managers to understand the nature of the projects 617 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,160 they're delivering, the environment they're delivering 618 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,880 them into. You don't necessarily have to be 619 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:04,680 an expert. Having an understanding is 620 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:06,840 important. I knew very little about what 621 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,880 before I started, and I sometimes wonder if that can be 622 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,960 a benefit because it can give you that detachment from just 623 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,120 being overwhelmed by everything you see because you're such a 624 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,640 fan of it and actually treat it in a much more objective way. 625 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,200 But I still get a buzz from coming into the building every 626 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,560 morning and walking into that auditorium that that listed 627 00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:28,160 auditorium. Walking around the maze of 628 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,480 backstage corridors, rooms and huge open spaces, it's easy to 629 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,880 agree with Carl Erickson, who looks after the renewal project 630 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,720 for the stage Machineries, that it's a venue, not like any other 631 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,000 place. It's got an outrageous amount of 632 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,960 machinery in it. It's incredibly vital for it to 633 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,880 work. The schedule is just kind of 634 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:55,400 mental because, you know, you again, there's this series of 635 00:32:55,400 --> 00:33:00,440 projects that needed to be done and the schedule to accomplish 636 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,640 those projects, you know, is incredibly difficult. 637 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,000 So you have to be really creative about how you approach 638 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,440 like these engineering problems. It's the things that primarily, 639 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,840 you know, move the scenery. Like do you know, the thing that 640 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,000 most people will see if they've ever been to a theatre show is, 641 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,880 you know, pieces of cloth flying out or flying in, you know, 642 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,040 during the scene change, you'll see stuff disappear above you or 643 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:25,600 fly in. That's the that's the most 644 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,320 common thing. And traditionally that stuff has 645 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,400 always been done sort of manually with people pulling 646 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,160 ropes. But there's been some machinery 647 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,760 assisted venues for quite a long time. 648 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,720 But really in the 90s is when that took off just because like 649 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:48,320 the technology became cheap enough and that you started to 650 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,400 see venues being purpose built with these, you know, fully 651 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,800 loaded with machines to do all of the scene changes. 652 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,960 And here it's really important. So there's a lot of things that 653 00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:59,800 you use machinery for in the theatre. 654 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,800 I mean, often it's to reduce risk because when you have 655 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:09,719 people that need to move heavy loads, you know, that's its own 656 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:11,920 risk of having people do that work it. 657 00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:15,679 I mean, it also enables a lot of more spectacular effects. 658 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:19,360 I mean, these days you have all sorts of, you know, heavier and 659 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,960 heavier things like LED walls. Those are very popular. 660 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,600 They're also very heavy. So, you know, if you want to 661 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,360 have some, again, some sort of spectacular transition in your 662 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,560 scene during a show, you need to have machinery to do that for 663 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,320 you. But here our schedule is, is 664 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:42,760 getting very unusual in the sense that we are a, an Opera 665 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,840 House and we do repertory. We do shows in repertory. 666 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,400 So that means we change what's on stage every day. 667 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,679 And partly that's just a factor of how opera has to work because 668 00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:55,280 opera singers Can't Sing every day. 669 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:56,639 They have to take a rest day in between. 670 00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:58,960 So like, as soon as you say we're going to do opera, you 671 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,440 automatically have to be a, a venue that that does a wrap. 672 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,920 So you have to change what's on stage, but then that also means 673 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,640 that you have to like, rehearse the things that are coming up. 674 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:15,120 So you have to figure out some sort of schedule of changing 675 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:18,400 what's on stage all the time. And the only way you can do that 676 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,600 in any sort of feasible sort of time frame is having a lot of 677 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,600 machinery that helps you move your scenery around. 678 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:25,600 We usually change over in the morning. 679 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,480 We do a, you know, from half 7:00 to 11:00, we do a rehearsal 680 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,240 from 11:00 to 2:00 and then they change over again from 2:00 681 00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:36,000 till, you know, 630 and then they do a show that evening. 682 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,440 And that's most days of the year. 683 00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:39,120 That's that's usually six days a week. 684 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,120 I asked Carl to explain the projects he's been working on. 685 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:49,440 So the two projects that I've done so far, the first one was 686 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,040 our stage elevators and the second one is the false 687 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,560 proscenium stage elevators are a lot easier to explain in the 688 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:04,560 sense that our stage is made-up of 6 elevators. 689 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,560 So they're sort of long rectangular elevators and 690 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,720 they're all next to each other going sort of from the 691 00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:13,680 downstage, upstage stage elevators. 692 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:19,400 They they have like multiple facets of how they're used. 693 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:28,120 So it's not just like the, it's a moving floor and it's also got 694 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,200 like a mezzanine level underneath it. 695 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,600 So you can actually walk in on like at the level below, there's 696 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,360 a there's actually a level. And again, it's this part of the 697 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,280 elevator. So it travels up and down with 698 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,360 the elevator. And the reason why you have 699 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,400 something like that is because you often in a lot of shows, you 700 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,840 want to have some sort of effect where people come up from below. 701 00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,760 You know, whether you have some sort of like, you know, lift 702 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,080 that pushes somebody up and through the floor or if you just 703 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,480 have a staircase, but you need to have some sort of, you know, 704 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,240 platform underneath that you can rise come up through. 705 00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:07,360 So there's that level. But then that level is actually 706 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,240 very useful in the sense that like if you don't need it for an 707 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:12,640 effect during a show, you can actually store stuff in it. 708 00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,680 And so the elevators can come all the way above stage. 709 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,840 So you can then wheel stuff inside of it and store stuff 710 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:22,760 inside of it and then, you know, put it down. 711 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,800 And then of course, they also drop down quite far. 712 00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,680 So we use that particularly to great effect. 713 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,440 There's a lot of shows that rely on that action. 714 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,120 There's a lot of sets where they will build like a whole extra 715 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:43,560 level and then they'll drop the whole thing down so that there's 716 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,280 like a whole other level underneath that people can, you 717 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,800 know, have staircases come up and out of like in Traviata. 718 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,520 That's a very good example. The Act 1 of Traviata has 719 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,600 staircases and a bunch of people come up from below. 720 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,320 They're like curved staircases. And the only way you could do 721 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:04,240 that is by having the ability to put a massive, you know what 722 00:38:04,240 --> 00:38:06,800 they call infill and lower it down. 723 00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,400 So most of them go down 4 metres. 724 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,520 So that in itself is a pretty big drop. 725 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:16,080 But then the most upstage elevators, 5 and 6, go down even 726 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:20,320 further. They go down 5.7 metres and 727 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,880 that's used to really good effect in The Nutcracker to, you 728 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,040 know, one of the sort of effects in The Nutcracker that's 729 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:34,520 important to the telling the story is that essentially like 730 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:40,720 Clara, you know, the main girl in the, in the, in the story, 731 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,160 she kind of gets like shrunk to toy size, you know, because like 732 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,720 she gets given this Nutcracker for Christmas and then, you 733 00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:50,760 know, whether it's a dream or not a dream is always, I think a 734 00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:52,400 little bit up for interpretation. 735 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,040 But it's this idea that she gets shrunk down to toy size. 736 00:38:56,040 --> 00:39:00,600 And then like the toy soldiers are now like her size or so 737 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,240 rather she's the size of them and then they're fighting rats, 738 00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:04,120 you know, all this sort of stuff. 739 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:07,560 So things that would have to only happen with her shrinking 740 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,880 and the way that's usually communicated is this idea of 741 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:17,360 like the tree grows and most, you know, 99.9% of the theatres 742 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,280 around the world do not have like a, a big elevator that they 743 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,800 can drop. So usually they have some sort 744 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,000 of kind of cloth tree that folds. 745 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:27,240 So they just kind of like leave that. 746 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:30,080 And so it's a very like 1 dimensional tree. 747 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,120 And yes, you can do scene painting and make it look 748 00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,800 interesting, but we actually get to have a physical tree, right? 749 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,760 We get to put on our elevator. So it's much more impressive 750 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,280 effects. I ask him what the biggest 751 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:44,840 challenge is that he faces working with the stage 752 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:47,680 elevators. So the biggest problem with the 753 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,720 stage elevators versus any of the other projects we're doing 754 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:58,280 is that a lot of the things that we do sort of are above you or 755 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,480 to the side. You know, it's like, OK, this is 756 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,280 out of the way. You can sort of work out, you 757 00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:03,600 know, oh, you can put a scaffold up. 758 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,320 Oh, you can, you know. You can work at high or, you 759 00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,840 know, you can sort of get access to a lot of these things and you 760 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,360 don't have to impede everybody everywhere. 761 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,280 The problem with the elevators is that, you know, they are the 762 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,800 floor of the theatre. So like if you're doing stuff 763 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,680 with it, nobody can be stood there. 764 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,960 Nobody can, you know, if you if you put them all down, that's a 765 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,720 giant hole. The biggest problem with doing 766 00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:29,400 those was the fact that there was no way to not impact other 767 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:35,080 people. I really like them raid, you 768 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,880 know, risks, assumptions, issues, decisions. 769 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,120 I really like that a lot when you're, especially when you're 770 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:46,600 talking to like your stakeholders, 'cause the I mean, 771 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,520 the thing that you're really trying to do, you know, on a, 772 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,880 you know, as as frequent basis as you need to is, you know, 773 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:55,800 you're, you're always trying to solve issues, right? 774 00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,600 You're always so you're always trying to mitigate risks. 775 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:00,720 Like you're always trying to look ahead and say like, OK, 776 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,080 well, there's a, there's an amount of planning where you're 777 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,880 going, OK, whatever our goals. Like I, my favourite part, 778 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:11,040 actually, I'd say my favourite part of doing this work is 779 00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:16,240 actually talking to the people about what they want at the end. 780 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:20,720 So it was very fun for me to step in and start to look at how 781 00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:23,280 they were using these things and going like, OK, well, that's not 782 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,040 a, you know, I could, I can see these pain points in your, in 783 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:31,120 your like operational processes. So like there's a list of things 784 00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,400 that I would notice and then I would talk to them and say, you 785 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,600 know, what's good, what's bad? What would you like to change? 786 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,600 That's how this all starts. Like I don't just come in and 787 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,920 say like you should have X, you know, because like that's not 788 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,400 useful. Like I need to know what they 789 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,520 want to do. What's it like for him as an 790 00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,480 engineer turned project manager to work on projects here? 791 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,240 It's the fact that I mean, this is, this is, I'm, I'm not just 792 00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:56,840 like a project manager working in a field that's sort of like, 793 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,880 you know, to me, I, I can see that there's a lot of probably 794 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,160 project manager professionals that they're a project manager 795 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,160 has their career, you know, they will jump into this project, 796 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:11,840 that project, whatever, you know, and they're not going to 797 00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:14,120 be very passionate, you know, about the project. 798 00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:15,360 It's just OK, it's another project. 799 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:16,600 Like I know how to run a project. 800 00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,960 I'll get this, you know, from start to finish, you know, 801 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,880 whereas I have the advantage that I'm managing projects in 802 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:26,280 the field that I have a lot of interest in. 803 00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,520 So it's fun for me to think about the solutions, not just 804 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,440 execute the project. How does he personally measure 805 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:35,360 the success of the project he's worked on? 806 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:40,560 So the old system, you know, had lots of reoccurring faults, you 807 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:45,080 know, and constantly our sort of like support engineering team 808 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:49,600 would get called out all the time to, you know, sort of hit 809 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,160 it with a hammer and her power, you know, turn it off and on or 810 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,080 whatever they needed to do to get, you know, and this has 811 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:55,720 happened like almost on a daily basis. 812 00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:01,560 And to me, the biggest measure of success is they never get 813 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,040 called. I mean, so again, reliability, 814 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:11,000 so that not having the engineers come every day is is to me, the 815 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,720 main measure that I see. But the important thing is that 816 00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:18,840 it's everybody like even like throughout the building, like on 817 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,680 the technical, there was just this understanding that like try 818 00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,160 to use the elevators as little as possible because they're not 819 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,720 reliable. And you know, that's now a 820 00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:33,680 mindset that has they've been able to like throw away because 821 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,480 there's now shows. And again, I can't make spoilers 822 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:40,200 for what's coming up in future seasons in terms of like what 823 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:41,240 show it is and what they're going to do. 824 00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:45,800 But there's people actually now planning to use the elevators 825 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:50,760 for live moves in shows again. What Karl is working on now is 826 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,720 what's called the false proscenium, which I discovered 827 00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:56,560 is the frame separating the stage from the auditorium 828 00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:59,000 through which the action of the ballet and opera scene. 829 00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:05,440 In the Royal Opera House, you know, we have this very 830 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:09,800 decorative sort of carved golden proscenium. 831 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,400 And then but behind that is the thing that we call the false 832 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,480 proscenium. And so the false proscenium is 833 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:17,840 just black. It's just covered in black. 834 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:19,480 It's all flat and black on the front. 835 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,480 And very few theatres have anything that's like it. 836 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:28,560 It's, it's essentially, it's got some towers that can travel, you 837 00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,840 know, on stage and off stage. And then it's got a lighting 838 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:35,240 bridge that can go up and down. So you can further control the 839 00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:38,400 sort of the size of the aperture that people are looking at the 840 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:43,520 scene on stage. And and not only does it, you 841 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:46,720 know, sort of close that aperture, but it also the whole 842 00:44:46,720 --> 00:44:50,160 thing can move upstage and downstage, which again, it's, 843 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:54,120 it's wild because it's huge. I mean, it's like 30 metres 844 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,120 wide. It weighs 50 tonnes. 845 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:58,840 It sits on 2 rails. You know, it's just, you don't 846 00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,440 look at it go like, oh, that should move, you know, like, but 847 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:04,280 it does. So it's again the same problem, 848 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:09,840 reliability issues, you know, you had a 25 year old system and 849 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,320 just things didn't always want to work. 850 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,520 The original system was perfectly fine. 851 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:19,160 You know, it was of its era. Like I can't fault any of the 852 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,520 like the original design for how it emerged. 853 00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,760 But you know, we have more interesting technology these 854 00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:28,680 days, more interesting ways to operate stuff. 855 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,960 And again, it was easy to see the pain points. 856 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,920 It was easy to, you know, to, to watch the operators go like, you 857 00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,080 know, hitting the reset button cause all the time, 'cause it 858 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,640 would just fall when you were trying to move it. 859 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,520 You know, so stuff like that is really obvious, Like, oh, this 860 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:49,000 is not in that's ideal state. So all of the stuff we have on 861 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,120 stage is from 25 years ago. It's from 1999. 862 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:56,480 After the false proscenium, Carl will turn his attention to 863 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:59,920 renewing the stage traps and sliders which allows performance 864 00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:02,960 to pop up through the stage. The current ones, he says, have 865 00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,960 been condemned. So it's time for the curtain to 866 00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,440 come down on our behind the scenes look at just some of the 867 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,680 projects being managed at the Royal Ballet and Opera. 868 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,680 It's been a privilege to see the huge amount of usually unseen 869 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,000 effort that goes into putting on the productions here. 870 00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,000 Mussoli is a dedicated team who continues on its journey of 871 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,160 greater professionalisation and it's fantastic to see people get 872 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:26,800 such a kick from doing their jobs. 873 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,840 I hope you've learned a few things that you can practise in 874 00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:32,760 your own work, whether that's making change more of a success 875 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:34,840 or ensuring A moveable deadlines are met. 876 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,120 If you want to find out more about project management at 877 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,480 Royal Balloon Opera, look out for the Spring 2026 issue of 878 00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,880 Project and listen to the APM podcast where I interviewed COO 879 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,320 Heather Walker about moving from Project Director to Executive 880 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:58,440 suite. Thanks again to Music, George, 881 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:01,360 Adam and Cole for joining us and to you for listening to the APM 882 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,680 Podcast. Don't forget to look out for 883 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,080 more episodes or to rate and reviews wherever you get your 884 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,400 podcasts. We'd welcome you to get in touch 885 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,560 with your comments, feedback and suggestions by emailing us at 886 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:17,160 apmpodcast@thinkpublishing.co.uk. Spotify users, please do also 887 00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:19,880 leave us your comments. This podcast has been brought to 888 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,840 you by APM, the chartered body for the roject Rofession. 889 00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,040 For more information on APM, visit amorguk.