1 00:00:02,390 --> 00:00:04,080 Quite close together when we're walking. 2 00:00:10,300 --> 00:00:13,870 Welcome to Episode 2 in our three-part series on APM 3 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,150 corporate partner the National Trust, where we're finding out 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,170 about how the charity has brought project management close 5 00:00:20,180 --> 00:00:23,770 to its organisational heart. I'm Emma De Vita and I'm your 6 00:00:23,780 --> 00:00:26,320 host. In episode one, I went behind 7 00:00:26,330 --> 00:00:29,870 the scenes at Historic House Durham Park to speak to Mike 8 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,770 Hudson, Head of Strategic Planning, Projects and Programme 9 00:00:32,780 --> 00:00:35,830 Management, who told me all about the professionalisation of 10 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:37,740 project management at the charity. 11 00:00:38,290 --> 00:00:41,620 I also got to hear from Senior Project manager Tim Camborne 12 00:00:41,670 --> 00:00:45,140 about how he led the recent multimillion # transformation 13 00:00:45,150 --> 00:00:48,480 programme at Deer and Park. If you didn't catch it, listen 14 00:00:48,490 --> 00:00:51,400 to it now. In this episode I'm finding out 15 00:00:51,410 --> 00:00:54,640 about two different sites, the National Trust's work, it's 16 00:00:54,650 --> 00:00:57,620 urban programmes, particularly in London where I visited a new 17 00:00:57,630 --> 00:01:00,180 community garden. And secondly, it's work in 18 00:01:00,190 --> 00:01:03,780 renewables as it focuses towards its aim of becoming carbon net 19 00:01:03,790 --> 00:01:07,480 zero by 20-30. But first, let's meet Joe 20 00:01:07,490 --> 00:01:10,220 Dimitri, a senior Programme manager for the National Trust 21 00:01:10,230 --> 00:01:13,250 London programme. He started her career in event 22 00:01:13,260 --> 00:01:15,790 management before switching to project management. 23 00:01:16,100 --> 00:01:19,130 She began her urban work in Birmingham on the Roundhouse 24 00:01:19,140 --> 00:01:21,930 projects and is now leading a team of nine project 25 00:01:21,940 --> 00:01:24,990 professionals as part of the strategy work the National Trust 26 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:29,130 is doing in London to connect green spaces and increase its 27 00:01:29,140 --> 00:01:34,210 presence in the capital city. Could you tell us a bit about 28 00:01:34,220 --> 00:01:37,390 the programme itself? So what the scope is, what the 29 00:01:37,450 --> 00:01:40,010 what you hope to achieve and the time frame. 30 00:01:41,060 --> 00:01:45,530 The London programme it we're collaborating on projects in six 31 00:01:45,540 --> 00:01:50,450 out of London's 33 boroughs. We've got a range of different 32 00:01:50,460 --> 00:01:52,890 types of projects and interventions that we're working 33 00:01:52,900 --> 00:01:54,610 on. So to really help address 34 00:01:54,660 --> 00:01:57,070 unequal access to nature, beauty and history. 35 00:01:57,210 --> 00:02:03,040 And that ranges from a community garden in East Dagenham where 36 00:02:03,050 --> 00:02:08,199 we're providing access for people in that area to I I guess 37 00:02:08,210 --> 00:02:10,690 in the grand scheme of London, a relatively small space. 38 00:02:10,699 --> 00:02:14,620 But for lots of people in that area it might be the their their 39 00:02:14,630 --> 00:02:17,580 only sort of access to our outdoor space on their doorstep. 40 00:02:17,590 --> 00:02:21,180 So we know that over half the people that are coming to 41 00:02:21,230 --> 00:02:24,600 Stonyford Community Garden and don't have their own private 42 00:02:24,610 --> 00:02:27,070 green space. And then our other projects that 43 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:31,200 sort of go right through to looking at how you connect up 44 00:02:31,250 --> 00:02:34,460 green and blue space across several London boroughs. 45 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:38,540 So working in the Wandle on a green corridor across 46 00:02:38,830 --> 00:02:41,820 Wandsworth, Merton, Sutton and into Croydon. 47 00:02:41,830 --> 00:02:44,320 So you've got the the Wanderer River corridor. 48 00:02:44,460 --> 00:02:47,870 So looking at the communities, the access the communities 49 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,800 across that river corridor have to to green and blue space and 50 00:02:51,810 --> 00:02:54,730 thinking about how to connect that up and and create more and 51 00:02:54,740 --> 00:02:58,050 better access to nature across those boroughs. 52 00:02:58,220 --> 00:03:02,290 And looking at so in Lewisham, we're also looking at again in 53 00:03:02,340 --> 00:03:05,820 an award level within that borough, what the opportunities 54 00:03:05,830 --> 00:03:09,770 are to create more, more green space and better green space on 55 00:03:09,780 --> 00:03:14,150 the doorsteps where people live. How will success be measured for 56 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,050 all of these projects and for the programme? 57 00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:22,190 A programme level, we're really looking at increasing the amount 58 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:27,810 of people accessing green space. So we know that there is a real 59 00:03:27,820 --> 00:03:32,730 correlation between green deficit in cities and that 60 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,150 disproportionately affects people from global majority 61 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:41,550 communities and people from more disadvantaged areas of the city. 62 00:03:41,620 --> 00:03:45,700 So we're really wanting to ensure that when we when we're 63 00:03:45,710 --> 00:03:50,680 working in the areas we're working where there there is a 64 00:03:51,330 --> 00:03:55,620 where where we can have impact, but also measuring the increase 65 00:03:55,630 --> 00:03:58,940 in in the amount of good quality green space in the city. 66 00:03:59,010 --> 00:04:02,000 So again looking at where there are there is a green deficit 67 00:04:02,010 --> 00:04:06,580 area and and how to how to increase the amount, the quality 68 00:04:06,670 --> 00:04:10,340 and also sort of what's going on in that space as well. 69 00:04:10,350 --> 00:04:14,520 So also looking at what we can do in those spaces to make them 70 00:04:14,530 --> 00:04:17,880 feel safer, to make them feel evidence and to to bring them to 71 00:04:17,890 --> 00:04:20,310 life for for a wider range of people. 72 00:04:21,820 --> 00:04:24,910 Could you tell us a bit more about the Instagram project, 73 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,920 please? We were bequeathed half acre 74 00:04:29,210 --> 00:04:32,810 garden in East Dagenham. It's connected to somewhere 75 00:04:32,820 --> 00:04:35,840 called stone for cottage. We've separated the garden from 76 00:04:35,850 --> 00:04:38,960 the cottage. So the bequest was in 2018 and 77 00:04:38,970 --> 00:04:44,420 we open stone for community garden at the end of 2022. 78 00:04:44,510 --> 00:04:48,640 So we worked with the community before that to really understand 79 00:04:48,730 --> 00:04:51,840 what they wanted from green space in their area where what 80 00:04:51,850 --> 00:04:56,500 were the opportunities and how how could we use that half acre 81 00:04:56,590 --> 00:05:00,550 to really provide a space that the local community wanted to 82 00:05:00,620 --> 00:05:04,370 use. We have been working with some 83 00:05:04,380 --> 00:05:09,710 creative consultants to to to bring the garden to life and 84 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:13,570 we've put on a programme across the past over the past year 85 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,690 particularly working with younger people. 86 00:05:16,700 --> 00:05:21,990 So if we ran last year some sessions for under fives and 87 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,450 also an after school club in the garden. 88 00:05:24,780 --> 00:05:28,730 So again looking at how to sort of respond creatively to to 89 00:05:28,810 --> 00:05:32,580 nature in the space, but very much bringing people together. 90 00:05:32,770 --> 00:05:36,110 And alongside that we've worked with a brilliant organisation 91 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:40,040 called Thames Chase who have their own volunteers that they 92 00:05:40,050 --> 00:05:42,380 bring to the garden to help manage manage it. 93 00:05:42,390 --> 00:05:45,420 So look after it, tend to the garden, keep keep sort of the 94 00:05:45,530 --> 00:05:48,760 keep, keep things growing but also keep some of the the growth 95 00:05:48,770 --> 00:05:51,480 under control. And they have also started a 96 00:05:51,490 --> 00:05:53,600 gardening club made-up of members from the local 97 00:05:53,610 --> 00:05:56,570 community. Over half of the people that are 98 00:05:56,580 --> 00:06:00,360 coming to Stone for that don't have outdoor space of their own. 99 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:05,470 And it really feels like we've got really wide interest from 100 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,890 across the community and the feedback that we get suggests 101 00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:13,500 that we're, you know, we're offering in stone for something 102 00:06:13,510 --> 00:06:16,810 that they can't find elsewhere in the local area. 103 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:25,070 Quite close together. I visited Stonyford Community 104 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,450 Garden in Dagenham in east London on a windy February day 105 00:06:28,500 --> 00:06:31,630 where project officer Emma King gave me a tour of the once 106 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,470 ramshackle cottage garden that she's busy transforming and 107 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,250 which now welcomes in the local community, including the 108 00:06:38,260 --> 00:06:40,690 children at the primary school just over the road. 109 00:06:42,020 --> 00:06:48,110 I'm here on a windy but quite warm February morning at 110 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:52,650 Stoneyford Community Garden in East Dagenham with Emma King, 111 00:06:52,660 --> 00:06:55,190 who's a project officer at National Trust. 112 00:06:55,340 --> 00:06:58,010 He's closely involved with the project here. 113 00:06:58,020 --> 00:07:04,560 Hi Emma, Can you describe what what we're looking at at the 114 00:07:04,570 --> 00:07:05,970 moment? Because it's kind of like a 115 00:07:05,980 --> 00:07:11,690 fenced off area off a suburban street with lots of colourful 116 00:07:11,700 --> 00:07:15,960 kind of flags waving about and some kind of artwork. 117 00:07:16,030 --> 00:07:19,480 But do you want to describe as we go around what we're seeing? 118 00:07:19,550 --> 00:07:20,920 Yeah. And a little bit of history of 119 00:07:20,930 --> 00:07:23,020 the project, of course. So. 120 00:07:23,970 --> 00:07:26,760 So it's Stonyford Community Garden. 121 00:07:27,210 --> 00:07:32,180 It's a fairly small space. It was, in fact, someone. 122 00:07:32,190 --> 00:07:36,280 'S domestic back garden. It belonged to the cottage. 123 00:07:37,310 --> 00:07:42,400 The family had lived in the cottage for 100 years, and this 124 00:07:42,410 --> 00:07:45,020 part of Dagenham was not that long ago. 125 00:07:45,030 --> 00:07:50,190 Sort of just before the war was all sorts of farmland and this 126 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:54,200 was their small farm, so you've got sort of remnants in the 127 00:07:54,210 --> 00:07:58,200 garden of of when it was a farm. So there's a few different 128 00:07:58,270 --> 00:08:01,540 outbuildings here where they would have kept animals and they 129 00:08:01,550 --> 00:08:07,690 would have stored things. Also had an orchard and the 130 00:08:07,700 --> 00:08:09,770 orchard still here. So we've got a lovely mature 131 00:08:09,780 --> 00:08:14,770 orchard of different fruit trees like cherries and plums. 132 00:08:14,780 --> 00:08:18,090 We're standing under a a lovely old plum tree. 133 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,680 Has it produced any fruit? Yeah, in here in the summer we 134 00:08:21,690 --> 00:08:23,940 get lots of fruit. Is it tasty? 135 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:27,450 Good. And we have lots of activities 136 00:08:27,460 --> 00:08:29,800 with the local community to do fruit picking. 137 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,360 Ohh. So I think for me that's one of 138 00:08:33,370 --> 00:08:37,200 the key features of the garden is the sort of mature trees 139 00:08:37,210 --> 00:08:41,400 we've got here of them fruit trees as they say. 140 00:08:41,409 --> 00:08:45,180 So in the summer we've got lots of shade and things. 141 00:08:45,190 --> 00:08:50,240 So it's kind of like a a little haven in a in what's now quite a 142 00:08:50,250 --> 00:08:56,150 residential built up area. We're walking on our new paths 143 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,780 that we just had put, yeah, had these put in a couple of months 144 00:08:59,790 --> 00:09:03,440 ago. And because the garden or those 145 00:09:03,450 --> 00:09:07,040 sort of lovely and charming is a bit higgledy, piggledy, I would 146 00:09:07,050 --> 00:09:11,620 say that's a bit uneven, the surfaces and things, which looks 147 00:09:11,630 --> 00:09:14,580 very nice. But now we've got these great 148 00:09:14,590 --> 00:09:18,720 new paths, which means lots more people can access the site, 149 00:09:18,870 --> 00:09:22,600 whether that's wheelchair users or people with pushchairs and 150 00:09:22,610 --> 00:09:26,080 things like that. Who comes here typically? 151 00:09:26,730 --> 00:09:31,540 So at the moment we've got an after school club so we're just 152 00:09:31,550 --> 00:09:35,020 down the road from the school. So yeah, I can hear the children 153 00:09:35,030 --> 00:09:38,160 in the background there, yeah. Yeah, so we've got families who 154 00:09:38,170 --> 00:09:41,200 come to that. We've also got a gardening club 155 00:09:41,210 --> 00:09:44,360 which is for sort of local residents joining that, That's 156 00:09:44,370 --> 00:09:49,490 Fortnightly club so but and this year we're hoping to sort of 157 00:09:49,500 --> 00:09:52,710 expand the type of activities we run and the kind of people that 158 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,530 we're welcoming into the space. How long have you been working 159 00:09:56,540 --> 00:09:59,530 on this project? So I've been involved since 160 00:09:59,540 --> 00:10:05,070 November 2020. So the the house and garden were 161 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:07,660 left to the National Trust in 2018. 162 00:10:08,990 --> 00:10:10,690 That's quite common with the National Trust. 163 00:10:10,700 --> 00:10:15,290 Lots of people leave things to us and there's always a decision 164 00:10:15,300 --> 00:10:18,330 about them, what we would, what we're going to do with those 165 00:10:18,340 --> 00:10:21,190 places. And there was always an idea 166 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,790 that we could open this as a community garden. 167 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,590 But as you can imagine, there's sort of various hoops to jump 168 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:34,050 through to to make that happen. And then so that was the plan, 169 00:10:34,060 --> 00:10:35,760 that it would be a community garden. 170 00:10:35,830 --> 00:10:40,440 But then COVID came along and things changed a lot and there 171 00:10:40,450 --> 00:10:43,420 was uncertainty about whether the project would go ahead. 172 00:10:43,490 --> 00:10:47,600 But actually what what happened with COVID at the National Trust 173 00:10:47,610 --> 00:10:52,060 is we refocused our strategy and we really saw the need as a 174 00:10:52,070 --> 00:10:55,740 charity to be creating more urban green space. 175 00:10:55,750 --> 00:10:58,820 So it felt that actually this was something that would really 176 00:10:59,550 --> 00:11:03,480 deliver our strategy around urban places, creating more 177 00:11:03,490 --> 00:11:06,840 urban green space. Once that decision was made, 178 00:11:08,900 --> 00:11:12,950 began the feasibility work on the project, trying to 179 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,980 understand, you know, what were the steps that we needed to take 180 00:11:16,990 --> 00:11:21,370 to to make that happen. And quite early on we decided we 181 00:11:21,380 --> 00:11:24,910 needed to do a community consultation to just sort of 182 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:27,710 understand what the need was in the local area. 183 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:29,250 Is this something people would want? 184 00:11:29,260 --> 00:11:32,770 Is it something they needed? So we worked with a local 185 00:11:32,780 --> 00:11:36,350 organisation called Company Drinks who are already very much 186 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:40,730 embedded in the area and sort of connected with the community. 187 00:11:40,850 --> 00:11:44,880 So they ran a series of workshops and things to to 188 00:11:44,890 --> 00:11:49,100 understand what people might want from this base and and we 189 00:11:49,110 --> 00:11:51,840 also did data mapping and things like that looking on what other 190 00:11:51,850 --> 00:11:55,680 green space was around, what the demographics of the area were 191 00:11:55,690 --> 00:11:59,040 like and things like that. So once we've gathered all that 192 00:11:59,050 --> 00:12:01,670 information and we felt there really was a strong need to have 193 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:05,790 something like this in the area, that's when we sort of started 194 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,320 doing our fundraising and all that kind of stuff to to put in 195 00:12:09,330 --> 00:12:12,200 a new. And so there was a big decision 196 00:12:12,210 --> 00:12:15,000 about what would the House be part of the project. 197 00:12:15,070 --> 00:12:16,220 Where is the house? The. 198 00:12:16,230 --> 00:12:20,080 Cottage there, yeah. But actually it was decided that 199 00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:23,800 it needed a lot of renovation and the only way. 200 00:12:23,810 --> 00:12:26,680 So you sort of get an internal loan to do the renovation, but 201 00:12:26,690 --> 00:12:29,020 you have to sort of generate income to make sure you're 202 00:12:29,030 --> 00:12:32,850 paying back that loan. So we've got a private tenant in 203 00:12:32,860 --> 00:12:36,800 there now they're just as their house, they rent it and so we 204 00:12:36,810 --> 00:12:38,840 put in a new fence. So it was that was kind of a big 205 00:12:38,850 --> 00:12:40,500 first step. We're sort of separating the 206 00:12:40,510 --> 00:12:44,460 house from the garden, making them separate entities, putting 207 00:12:44,470 --> 00:12:48,120 in a new gate. And then the approach has has 208 00:12:48,130 --> 00:12:51,460 always kind of been not to. We started doing all these like 209 00:12:51,470 --> 00:12:56,560 grand plans with architects and thinking like and then sort of 210 00:12:56,610 --> 00:12:59,150 realising how much that was going to cost and having to 211 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,370 fundraise huge amounts. And we thought actually let's 212 00:13:02,500 --> 00:13:05,400 before we do that, let's actually just get it sort of put 213 00:13:05,410 --> 00:13:08,310 in the bare minimum infrastructure to make the site 214 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,550 usable and let's just open it and get people in and start 215 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:14,210 doing things. And then kind of build from 216 00:13:14,220 --> 00:13:18,850 there and sort of learn as we go in terms of what is needed. 217 00:13:18,940 --> 00:13:22,470 In this space, yeah. Does it feel quite an unusual 218 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:27,150 project to be working on as part of the National Trust? 219 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,290 Yes. I would say so. 220 00:13:29,300 --> 00:13:34,700 I think there's definitely a lot of overlap with other parts of 221 00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:39,750 the organisation. Lots of our our sort of more 222 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,930 traditional gardens are very community focused now. 223 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,130 There's actually a National Trust property down the road 224 00:13:45,140 --> 00:13:48,870 called Raynham Hall and that's called a community garden. 225 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,010 The garden there is called the Community Gardener, so it so it 226 00:13:52,020 --> 00:13:56,040 does exist. And actually since COVID, 227 00:13:56,050 --> 00:13:58,940 really, there has actually been an explosion in terms of urban 228 00:13:58,950 --> 00:14:01,660 work and things happening in Manchester and Birmingham and 229 00:14:01,670 --> 00:14:04,410 there's all these teams and resources being put into that. 230 00:14:04,470 --> 00:14:08,780 So I suppose it doesn't. You know, it feels like we are. 231 00:14:08,900 --> 00:14:14,660 There's a kind of shift within the organisation, but I think 232 00:14:14,670 --> 00:14:18,220 projects like this are still quite new to the organisation 233 00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:20,980 and so we're all learning as we as we go. 234 00:14:21,220 --> 00:14:23,380 And what as? A project officer. 235 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,560 What are your main sort of responsibilities right now? 236 00:14:28,470 --> 00:14:32,460 So the role requires it's, it's kind of an unusual thing. 237 00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:37,540 So you'd have the project side and the development side of sort 238 00:14:37,550 --> 00:14:41,510 of and what is is happening next with the project. 239 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,250 We need to fundraise what, what, how are we going, what's the 240 00:14:45,260 --> 00:14:48,230 future going to look like, how's it going to operate long term. 241 00:14:48,340 --> 00:14:51,470 But then because it is a site that is open to the public, it's 242 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,410 also very operational and I have to think you know is it safe? 243 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,150 Do do we have toilets? Do we have, you know, it's just 244 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:03,090 kind of like the everyday thing. So I my role is is quite split 245 00:15:03,100 --> 00:15:07,040 into I would say. We'll return to Emma's tour of 246 00:15:07,050 --> 00:15:09,500 the community garden later, but let's get back to Joe. 247 00:15:09,510 --> 00:15:11,900 He'll be telling us more about the founder of the National 248 00:15:11,910 --> 00:15:15,290 Trust, Octavia Hill, and her mission to improve the 249 00:15:15,300 --> 00:15:20,170 well-being of city workers. We were talking before about the 250 00:15:20,180 --> 00:15:23,280 founder Octavia Hills mission for the National Trust. 251 00:15:23,290 --> 00:15:25,500 You and tell us a bit about that, because maybe not everyone 252 00:15:25,510 --> 00:15:27,110 knows. Yeah. 253 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,260 So Octavia Hill was a really inspirational founder for the 254 00:15:31,270 --> 00:15:35,030 National Trust and really strongly believed in the 255 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:39,050 importance and the right that people have to green space 256 00:15:39,060 --> 00:15:42,720 connection to nature, wide open skies for for the benefit of 257 00:15:42,730 --> 00:15:46,190 their health and well-being and you know a time of massive 258 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,670 change and industrialisation in the country late 19th century. 259 00:15:50,750 --> 00:15:55,140 She, you know she was seeing huge, you know huge influx of 260 00:15:55,510 --> 00:15:59,830 workers into cities, varying living conditions, you know some 261 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,320 really terrible living conditions for people. 262 00:16:02,490 --> 00:16:06,500 And as a a social reformer wanted to kind of address that 263 00:16:06,570 --> 00:16:10,260 by preserving the sort of heritage and natural spaces 264 00:16:10,270 --> 00:16:14,040 within cities to to sort of counterbalance that of 265 00:16:14,050 --> 00:16:18,900 densification within within our towns and cities and campaigned 266 00:16:18,910 --> 00:16:23,470 really hard to save parks and green spaces in London for the 267 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:26,510 benefit of particularly working populations. 268 00:16:26,580 --> 00:16:30,170 And so that kind of core purpose on which National Trust was 269 00:16:30,180 --> 00:16:34,420 founded has, you know, is as relevant now as it was at the 270 00:16:34,430 --> 00:16:38,410 time. You're now Senior programme 271 00:16:38,420 --> 00:16:40,940 manager of this. Can you tell me a bit about your 272 00:16:40,950 --> 00:16:43,780 career in project management and and particularly within the 273 00:16:43,790 --> 00:16:46,070 National Trust? Because I've been trying to 274 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:51,520 understand how beneficial it has been to have a professionalised 275 00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:55,180 project management function and career route within National 276 00:16:55,190 --> 00:16:58,860 Trust. And also it's an APM corporate 277 00:16:58,870 --> 00:17:02,150 partner, so you have that kind of extra support and resource 278 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:03,300 there. So it would be good to 279 00:17:03,310 --> 00:17:05,420 understand a little bit about your career. 280 00:17:06,589 --> 00:17:09,300 So I started working in event management. 281 00:17:09,349 --> 00:17:14,359 So or it probably you know coming up for about 25 years ago 282 00:17:14,710 --> 00:17:17,829 my my route into project management and I don't think 283 00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:20,569 this is unusual actually came through this all through the 284 00:17:20,579 --> 00:17:23,579 event management route. So I started off working in 285 00:17:23,589 --> 00:17:26,640 corporate events and then that evolved into working for a youth 286 00:17:26,650 --> 00:17:29,580 charity. And I just, I really love that 287 00:17:29,590 --> 00:17:32,940 sense of working with people to make exciting things happen. 288 00:17:33,030 --> 00:17:36,640 And I guess that that's the sort of endure throughout all of my 289 00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:39,600 career. And I also sort of liked the 290 00:17:39,610 --> 00:17:43,740 fact that the sort of way the way I worked helped to bring 291 00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:47,380 kind of structure and process in that at that point to sort of 292 00:17:47,390 --> 00:17:51,900 managing an events and you know how that could make things run 293 00:17:51,910 --> 00:17:54,020 more smoothly. You know it's a bit more 294 00:17:54,030 --> 00:17:56,000 effective in in making things happen. 295 00:17:56,450 --> 00:17:59,280 But for various different reasons the sort of relentless 296 00:17:59,290 --> 00:18:04,710 pace of events but also the kind of short term nature of those 297 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,740 sort of projects didn't appeal as much. 298 00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:12,800 And I looked at the time to to see sort of what felt like a way 299 00:18:12,810 --> 00:18:17,500 of transferring my skills into a similar but perhaps a slightly 300 00:18:17,510 --> 00:18:20,860 different sort of career. You know I I started looking 301 00:18:20,870 --> 00:18:24,360 into project management and that really appealed that for similar 302 00:18:24,370 --> 00:18:28,520 reasons to to event management. But I I love the idea of that 303 00:18:28,530 --> 00:18:32,280 sort of slightly sort of longer term investment of time and 304 00:18:32,290 --> 00:18:37,500 energy into sort of enabling change to happen and found a a 305 00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:40,540 role at the Natural History Museum in London. 306 00:18:40,690 --> 00:18:43,470 So it's a sort of, it's a bit of a hybrid really between the work 307 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,340 I've been doing in events and going more formally I think into 308 00:18:47,550 --> 00:18:51,700 into project management. Had I had any project management 309 00:18:51,710 --> 00:18:53,900 training? At that point, no. 310 00:18:53,910 --> 00:18:58,520 So it it was quite a steep learning curve actually moving 311 00:18:58,530 --> 00:19:01,660 from event management into project management. 312 00:19:02,070 --> 00:19:06,340 But I was really fortunate that Natural History Museum really 313 00:19:06,390 --> 00:19:09,120 invested in me as a project manager, as a project 314 00:19:09,130 --> 00:19:12,220 professional and that's where I got my first qualification for. 315 00:19:12,230 --> 00:19:15,840 They supported me and getting what was at the time the PMP, 316 00:19:15,850 --> 00:19:19,300 which I think is now this sort of equivalent to the PMQ's. 317 00:19:19,310 --> 00:19:22,410 That was a really interesting point actually in my development 318 00:19:22,420 --> 00:19:27,490 as a project manager because I think it gave me a sense of the 319 00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:31,190 sort of quality and standards across the profession. 320 00:19:31,310 --> 00:19:34,630 It was important for my development and understanding of 321 00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:39,930 how to manage projects well, but also gave me sort of confidence 322 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,690 as a project manager to know I was sort of on par with others 323 00:19:43,700 --> 00:19:46,290 in my profession. You know, that's where I feel 324 00:19:46,300 --> 00:19:50,550 there's a huge amount of value to to qualifications as they 325 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,700 don't necessarily automatically make you a better project 326 00:19:53,710 --> 00:19:57,440 manager, but they do give you that insight and that 327 00:19:57,450 --> 00:20:00,700 opportunity to develop, to develop your skills and I have 328 00:20:00,710 --> 00:20:04,640 seen in myself, but also in others that I've managed and 329 00:20:04,650 --> 00:20:07,700 worked with. The sort of confidence boost it 330 00:20:07,710 --> 00:20:12,440 gives to sort of there's a real affirmation in terms of skills 331 00:20:12,450 --> 00:20:16,020 and experience and and understanding that, yeah, you 332 00:20:16,030 --> 00:20:21,290 are of a standard and sort of where you sit in a in a sort of 333 00:20:21,300 --> 00:20:25,440 much wider profession which is so vast in terms of the range of 334 00:20:25,450 --> 00:20:27,950 different projects that that people could be managing. 335 00:20:28,590 --> 00:20:32,200 Can you tell me about your career journey through the 336 00:20:32,210 --> 00:20:35,060 National Trust then, from a project management perspective 337 00:20:35,070 --> 00:20:39,060 and the kind of support and the qualifications that you've 338 00:20:39,250 --> 00:20:42,560 worked through? Coming up for about 13 years 339 00:20:42,570 --> 00:20:47,600 ago, I was lucky enough to get a role in the Midlands, actually 340 00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:51,680 working on some of our our properties in Shropshire and 341 00:20:51,690 --> 00:20:54,580 looking at visitor infrastructure initially sort of 342 00:20:54,590 --> 00:21:00,480 looking at how to improve the experience of visitors have to 343 00:21:00,490 --> 00:21:05,120 our properties in those places. And so I was working with 344 00:21:05,130 --> 00:21:09,220 fantastic teams of cross discipline in terms of sort of 345 00:21:09,230 --> 00:21:12,040 expertise you know across a range of consultants. 346 00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:14,860 Also working with our operational teams who are kind 347 00:21:14,870 --> 00:21:18,580 of on the front line of the places where where people visit. 348 00:21:18,710 --> 00:21:22,300 And then gradually over the course of kind of working with 349 00:21:22,310 --> 00:21:27,360 operational colleagues at some of our places, I also started to 350 00:21:27,430 --> 00:21:32,390 explore the work that we were doing in Birmingham that was my 351 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:35,040 sort of initial foray into our urban places work. 352 00:21:35,110 --> 00:21:37,760 The National Trust had been approached by the Canal and 353 00:21:37,770 --> 00:21:42,160 River Trust, who owned and still owned the Roundhouse in 354 00:21:42,170 --> 00:21:47,080 Birmingham, to to look at what to do with what was a stunning 355 00:21:47,090 --> 00:21:52,910 building that, you know, had, over time sort of fallen into 356 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,510 that sort of level of disrepair. Both Canal and River Trust and 357 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,530 National Trust recognised the sort of opportunity for that 358 00:21:59,540 --> 00:22:02,930 building, which is right on the canals in Birmingham, to be 359 00:22:02,940 --> 00:22:06,050 something quite special for the city and for the communities 360 00:22:06,060 --> 00:22:09,510 that live around it. And so, yeah, we set about 361 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:13,830 restoring the Roundhouse and finding a new purpose for it. 362 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,180 So yeah, so I've been really lucky in the range of things 363 00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:20,580 that I've done at the National Trust and and bringing that 364 00:22:20,690 --> 00:22:23,160 experience to London then. So sort of that project 365 00:22:23,170 --> 00:22:27,360 management experience and sort of seeing how that can inform 366 00:22:27,370 --> 00:22:31,300 and influence and sort of sort of add value to my role now as a 367 00:22:31,310 --> 00:22:35,220 programme manager. And thinking about how you can 368 00:22:35,230 --> 00:22:38,410 bring those sort of that range of projects and interventions 369 00:22:38,420 --> 00:22:42,300 together and in that sort of strategic change programme for 370 00:22:42,590 --> 00:22:45,580 the work that we're doing in London and and organizationally 371 00:22:45,650 --> 00:22:48,840 and within that time, you know again I've been lucky enough 372 00:22:48,850 --> 00:22:52,640 that the the organisation has supported me to become a 373 00:22:52,650 --> 00:22:55,640 chartered project professional. And that's something that was 374 00:22:55,650 --> 00:22:57,520 quite a special moment for me because I've been kind of 375 00:22:57,530 --> 00:23:01,100 watching the journey of the APM towards becoming chartered body 376 00:23:01,150 --> 00:23:05,750 for project management and to then have that opportunity to to 377 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,590 receive chartership, you know it's a really important moment 378 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:10,920 in my career. I think you know the the 379 00:23:10,930 --> 00:23:14,800 importance of chartership to project management in terms of, 380 00:23:14,890 --> 00:23:19,720 you know, it adding that sort of affirmation and that sort of 381 00:23:19,730 --> 00:23:23,120 gravitas I guess to the profession in terms of it, you 382 00:23:23,130 --> 00:23:26,550 know, being on par with other chartered professions as well, I 383 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,110 I think it's been really exciting. 384 00:23:29,090 --> 00:23:34,670 What's it mean to you to have a professionalised project team or 385 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,270 teams? Actually, is programme manager 386 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,350 working for you? So I mean, I've been hugely 387 00:23:40,360 --> 00:23:44,580 impressed by how seriously the profession is taken within the 388 00:23:44,590 --> 00:23:48,530 organisation, but what's the kind of, what benefits is that 389 00:23:48,540 --> 00:23:51,660 brought to you as someone needing to get the job done 390 00:23:51,670 --> 00:23:55,810 across multiple projects? You know how seriously National 391 00:23:55,820 --> 00:24:00,550 Trusts take project management? It's really visible in the 392 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:06,340 standard of what we achieve, but also you know the the value that 393 00:24:06,350 --> 00:24:09,710 projects add to the delivery of our strategy and most 394 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,270 importantly that delivery of public benefit. 395 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:17,090 So we invest huge sums of money in projects and it's really 396 00:24:17,100 --> 00:24:20,290 important that that those charitable funds are spent 397 00:24:20,340 --> 00:24:23,190 really wisely and really effectively. 398 00:24:23,300 --> 00:24:26,580 And I think the amount that we achieve through projects is, is 399 00:24:26,590 --> 00:24:30,060 really sort of testimony to how effectively we can use projects 400 00:24:30,070 --> 00:24:33,860 to to deliver public benefit. It shouldn't come as a surprise, 401 00:24:33,870 --> 00:24:37,340 but I think it's really important that we do have a 402 00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:41,470 super professional group of of people running those projects. 403 00:24:41,670 --> 00:24:45,740 So to sort of maintain the consistency of them but also 404 00:24:45,830 --> 00:24:49,540 make sure that we're as successful as we can be each 405 00:24:49,550 --> 00:24:51,940 time. And I think we can do that more 406 00:24:51,950 --> 00:24:56,760 confidently knowing that we have those brilliant people in place 407 00:24:56,850 --> 00:25:00,440 that are kind of safeguarding the sort of integrity of the 408 00:25:00,450 --> 00:25:01,900 projects that they're working on. 409 00:25:02,310 --> 00:25:05,940 I mean it's brilliant for our people that we work for an 410 00:25:05,950 --> 00:25:09,380 organisation that does invest in our professional development, 411 00:25:09,450 --> 00:25:13,460 but it also again improves the sort of skills and confidence of 412 00:25:13,530 --> 00:25:15,050 of those that are working on projects. 413 00:25:15,710 --> 00:25:20,620 What support do you receive as a project professional, either 414 00:25:20,630 --> 00:25:24,310 from within the National Trust or from it's corporate 415 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,190 partnership with APM? I think one of the really 416 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,690 fantastic things that has evolved over in the organisation 417 00:25:31,700 --> 00:25:35,190 over a number of years is how sort of dynamic and vibrant 418 00:25:35,260 --> 00:25:38,800 project community we've got. That's hugely exciting actually, 419 00:25:38,810 --> 00:25:42,590 because you know I hear it from colleagues a lot that sometimes 420 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,950 working on projects can feel a bit isolating. 421 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:49,810 So to have that wider community, whether that is within our 422 00:25:49,820 --> 00:25:52,870 regions, so National Trust is sort of divided into a number of 423 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:57,130 regions but also across the whole of the country where we 424 00:25:57,140 --> 00:25:59,670 can come together and there's different ways that we do that. 425 00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,830 So as I say there's a, there's a sort of that our project and 426 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,350 programme management office facilitates a number of ways 427 00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:10,610 that we can engage with what's going on in the professions or 428 00:26:10,620 --> 00:26:13,830 meet up often virtually to hear from other project 429 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,250 professionals. So there is that sense of of 430 00:26:17,260 --> 00:26:20,630 being part of this amazing community across the 431 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,710 organisation, you know 100 hundreds of professionals 432 00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:26,190 regionally. Similarly we have you know we 433 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,710 have a a cohort within our region that we can tap into and 434 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:34,030 we can do that again through learning from each other. 435 00:26:34,460 --> 00:26:39,150 We do visits to other other projects so that you know we we 436 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,230 hear what's going on here about good practise elsewhere and and 437 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,650 learning from from what other people are doing. 438 00:26:44,700 --> 00:26:49,010 We have sort of particular specialist insights, so 439 00:26:49,020 --> 00:26:51,230 different different ways of of connecting. 440 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,450 What do you enjoy most about your role and being in project 441 00:26:56,460 --> 00:26:58,970 management and working for the National Trust? 442 00:26:59,540 --> 00:27:02,330 I love the range of people I get to work with. 443 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,150 That's it's one thing I I clocked really early on. 444 00:27:06,220 --> 00:27:12,650 I think in in my career is that I have that expertise around 445 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:16,610 being a project professional. That sort of goes to the core of 446 00:27:16,620 --> 00:27:20,630 what what I'm good at and what I can bring to those teams of 447 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,310 people trying to make change happen. 448 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:28,010 But particularly in the trust, the range of people and the sort 449 00:27:28,020 --> 00:27:33,700 of passion and professionalism that I get to sort of interact 450 00:27:33,710 --> 00:27:37,670 with through being a project professional is just incredible. 451 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,980 And you know, I I get that through through the 452 00:27:40,990 --> 00:27:45,020 organisation, but also because I'm working so frequently in 453 00:27:45,030 --> 00:27:48,300 partnership, I get that through other organisations as well. 454 00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:52,540 So I just this it really brilliant that that sense of 455 00:27:52,610 --> 00:27:57,140 collaboration with others to make such exciting things happen 456 00:27:57,220 --> 00:28:00,760 and you know partnership isn't always straightforward to make 457 00:28:00,770 --> 00:28:03,540 it happen but the the rewards can be amazing. 458 00:28:03,550 --> 00:28:07,310 So that's that's one of the things I really value and enjoy. 459 00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:10,110 OK. Well, listen, thank you so much 460 00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:11,880 for your time. It's been a pleasure talking to 461 00:28:11,890 --> 00:28:13,070 you. Thank you. 462 00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:16,990 It's time to get back to Emma and Dagenham, who tells me more 463 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,230 about her work on the garden and what the new community garden 464 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:27,350 means to those who live nearby. In your role as a project 465 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:31,400 officer, you're part of the National Trust kind. 466 00:28:31,410 --> 00:28:34,240 Of. Project management framework, so 467 00:28:34,970 --> 00:28:37,300 are. You studying towards any 468 00:28:37,310 --> 00:28:40,060 particular qualifications? Yes. 469 00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:44,730 So I'm actually doing the APM PMQ at the moment, the project 470 00:28:44,740 --> 00:28:48,980 management qualification and that's the one where you do the 471 00:28:48,990 --> 00:28:50,440 training in six. Weeks. 472 00:28:50,490 --> 00:28:52,080 Yes. So how's that going? 473 00:28:52,670 --> 00:28:55,320 It's really good. It's it's so we've kind of 474 00:28:55,330 --> 00:28:58,760 covered because of the course content now and I think it is 475 00:28:58,770 --> 00:29:03,380 going to be very useful in my role and sort of just a lot, 476 00:29:03,450 --> 00:29:06,740 yeah, having a lot more theory behind the work I'm doing. 477 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,320 But the tricky thing is revising for the exam and I don't. 478 00:29:10,330 --> 00:29:14,220 Think I've done any revision over a decade, so it's a bit of 479 00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:16,050 a a skill I haven't used in a while. 480 00:29:16,060 --> 00:29:19,220 Ohh, you'll be fine. How's it feel to be part of an 481 00:29:19,230 --> 00:29:22,320 organisation that's giving you this qualifications? 482 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,160 Fair bit of support and what you're doing as well. 483 00:29:26,350 --> 00:29:30,020 Yeah, I feel so lucky actually that I'm getting, yeah, the 484 00:29:30,030 --> 00:29:33,980 training as part of my job role. I know people pay lots of money 485 00:29:33,990 --> 00:29:38,750 to do qualifications like this and it makes you feel that they, 486 00:29:38,850 --> 00:29:42,780 you know, they want you to progress in your role and yeah, 487 00:29:42,790 --> 00:29:45,900 there's a clear path in terms of so at the moment I'm a project 488 00:29:45,910 --> 00:29:48,860 officer, but once I have this qualification, the hope is then 489 00:29:48,870 --> 00:29:51,220 I can move up to a project manager role. 490 00:29:51,690 --> 00:29:53,780 So it's nice to know that there's that. 491 00:29:55,090 --> 00:30:00,900 Route of progression within the organisation and what has the 492 00:30:00,910 --> 00:30:04,340 response been from the community towards the garden? 493 00:30:04,350 --> 00:30:06,580 What's worked or what hasn't worked? 494 00:30:06,590 --> 00:30:12,870 Has anything surprised you? So we have had a really positive 495 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,370 response from the community. I think people because it was 496 00:30:16,380 --> 00:30:20,110 someone's back garden for so long, but it's quite closed off. 497 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,490 You know you've got high hedges and things people can't 498 00:30:22,500 --> 00:30:25,090 necessarily, you can't see in from the street really. 499 00:30:25,140 --> 00:30:28,870 So I think people are so happy that they can come inside now 500 00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,150 and use the space. One of the reasons it was left 501 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,230 to the National Trust was because the the lady who left it 502 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:39,320 to us didn't want the land to be built on as she wanted it to be 503 00:30:39,330 --> 00:30:43,650 left for the local community. And I think the community feels 504 00:30:44,420 --> 00:30:46,710 when everyone tells stories about Mary who lived in the 505 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,990 house, they say how generous she was, how. 506 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,580 She sort of. Was always doing things for the 507 00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:55,120 community, so it's amazing that she now has this legacy for 508 00:30:55,130 --> 00:30:57,470 everybody around here where they can come in and use. 509 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,560 This space, I can see some of the ground has been cleared. 510 00:31:00,570 --> 00:31:03,010 There's like a pile of rubble at the back. 511 00:31:03,020 --> 00:31:06,990 There's a a shed and a greenhouse and really just how 512 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,590 you imagine a kind of rural garden actually to look like, 513 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,760 and some vegetable breads. So what are your plans for the 514 00:31:14,770 --> 00:31:20,880 garden for this year? So we a lot of the work we've 515 00:31:20,890 --> 00:31:24,280 done to date has been kind of clearing things. 516 00:31:24,290 --> 00:31:27,260 So when we took over the space, there was about 3. 517 00:31:27,270 --> 00:31:29,300 It had been not touched for about 3 years. 518 00:31:29,310 --> 00:31:32,000 So it was really overgrown and things like that. 519 00:31:32,010 --> 00:31:35,680 So we've been slowly working to just get things back. 520 00:31:36,010 --> 00:31:39,120 So now we can get a bit more of a sense of the space. 521 00:31:39,130 --> 00:31:43,100 And really what we want to do now is start to kind of do 522 00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:46,580 zones. So an area or a zone that's kind 523 00:31:46,590 --> 00:31:50,900 of focused on families, an area that's focused on food growing, 524 00:31:51,010 --> 00:31:53,660 a nature area. So that, yeah, now we're 525 00:31:53,670 --> 00:31:57,560 starting to sort of plot out and plan out a bit more of a design 526 00:31:57,610 --> 00:32:02,610 or thinking a bit more about the visitor experience now what? 527 00:32:02,770 --> 00:32:05,460 What benefits do you think it's brought local people? 528 00:32:05,470 --> 00:32:09,410 What have they mentioned to you? What is the intention for the 529 00:32:09,420 --> 00:32:14,000 project to deliver? So we have been collecting 530 00:32:14,050 --> 00:32:18,380 testimonials from people, which has given a real insight into 531 00:32:18,390 --> 00:32:22,340 what what people, you know, how what they feel about the garden. 532 00:32:22,730 --> 00:32:26,300 One of the things that always sticks with me is someone from 533 00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:30,280 the after school club parents saying, you know, we would just 534 00:32:30,290 --> 00:32:33,600 be sat indoors watching TV right now if we didn't have this. 535 00:32:33,610 --> 00:32:38,060 So it's kind of that breath of fresh air, that space to just be 536 00:32:38,070 --> 00:32:40,840 outdoors. So I guess many people around 537 00:32:40,850 --> 00:32:44,180 here don't have access to outside space for themselves. 538 00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:45,360 Yes. No. 539 00:32:45,370 --> 00:32:47,960 So we've monitor that. We sort of kind of capture 540 00:32:47,970 --> 00:32:51,480 feedback from people and we know that over 50% of the people 541 00:32:51,490 --> 00:32:53,950 using this space don't have their own garden. 542 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,600 They don't have their own outdoor space. 543 00:32:55,610 --> 00:32:58,100 So that is one of the key audiences we're trying to 544 00:32:58,110 --> 00:33:00,580 connect with. So we're really pleased that we 545 00:33:00,590 --> 00:33:04,540 are. So yeah, it's just that we we 546 00:33:04,550 --> 00:33:07,340 believe that spending time outside gives you a sense of 547 00:33:07,350 --> 00:33:10,000 well-being supports mental health and physical health. 548 00:33:10,010 --> 00:33:13,220 So it's kind of just by opening up the garden, it's. 549 00:33:13,670 --> 00:33:15,210 That's what we're hope we're doing. 550 00:33:15,220 --> 00:33:17,760 It's allowing people that I guess it is. 551 00:33:17,830 --> 00:33:20,520 I mean the keyword is communities and it's a community 552 00:33:20,530 --> 00:33:22,120 garden. Do you feel that there is a 553 00:33:22,130 --> 00:33:26,460 community growing here? Yes, definitely with the two 554 00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:28,920 groups that we've formed. So the after school clubs 555 00:33:28,930 --> 00:33:32,800 they've and with our gardening club, they've all sort of 556 00:33:32,810 --> 00:33:36,480 reflected how in this area people don't tend to talk to 557 00:33:36,490 --> 00:33:39,460 their neighbours so much or people don't necessarily know. 558 00:33:39,470 --> 00:33:42,600 People say hi as they're walking down the street, but now they've 559 00:33:42,610 --> 00:33:45,200 started to feel like they do know their neighbours more. 560 00:33:45,490 --> 00:33:49,860 So I think it's wonderful. Yeah, that's been so touching to 561 00:33:49,870 --> 00:33:52,000 see that. Yeah, it actually is just 562 00:33:52,010 --> 00:33:54,810 providing a space for them, the people to start to get to know 563 00:33:54,820 --> 00:33:58,520 each other. What are the biggest challenges 564 00:33:58,530 --> 00:34:03,660 for the project like this? Has it been just clearing the 565 00:34:03,670 --> 00:34:06,380 space, imagining what could come next? 566 00:34:06,750 --> 00:34:10,400 Is it engaging the community, dealing with the different 567 00:34:10,409 --> 00:34:13,880 stakeholders here for you? What has it been? 568 00:34:13,889 --> 00:34:15,800 Sort of the most challenging aspects? 569 00:34:16,190 --> 00:34:21,620 I think one of the things is is is funding. 570 00:34:21,630 --> 00:34:24,780 We're we've been quite lucky that we've we've managed to 571 00:34:25,210 --> 00:34:27,949 secure money from the National Trust which is brilliant and 572 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:31,880 externally we've fundraised for money too but I there's still so 573 00:34:31,889 --> 00:34:35,120 much more we could do here. We don't have proper toilets or 574 00:34:35,130 --> 00:34:38,699 water or power. If we could staff at full time, 575 00:34:38,710 --> 00:34:42,719 so it could be open full time. But it's it's it's a tricky 576 00:34:42,730 --> 00:34:46,739 thing because it's quite, it's not like a big Grand National 577 00:34:46,750 --> 00:34:49,040 trust house where you've got an income stream. 578 00:34:49,110 --> 00:34:53,330 It's quite difficult with the community garden to sponge those 579 00:34:53,340 --> 00:34:56,620 elements to to operate it. So that that I would say is the 580 00:34:56,630 --> 00:35:00,110 biggest challenge is working out how we do, how we're going to 581 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:01,830 make that happen going. Forward. 582 00:35:02,060 --> 00:35:05,310 Thank you Emma. It's such a treat to come here 583 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,350 and get a behind the scenes explanation from you. 584 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,450 It's a wonderful project, so I wish you the best of luck with 585 00:35:12,460 --> 00:35:13,570 it. Thank you. 586 00:35:13,580 --> 00:35:16,330 What a wonderful addition to the community. 587 00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:25,620 O We've heard a lot about the urban side to the National Trust 588 00:35:25,630 --> 00:35:28,600 work, but it's time to find out more about its pioneering work 589 00:35:28,610 --> 00:35:31,980 in renewable energy. Senior Project Manager Denon 590 00:35:31,990 --> 00:35:35,260 works on the Charities Renewable Energy Investment Programme, 591 00:35:35,370 --> 00:35:38,810 which is now focused on achieving Net 0 by 2030. 592 00:35:40,180 --> 00:35:43,700 Shall we begin with you giving us an overview of your role and 593 00:35:43,710 --> 00:35:46,730 responsibilities? I'm one of the lead project 594 00:35:46,740 --> 00:35:49,290 managers on the National Trust Renewable Energy Programme. 595 00:35:49,380 --> 00:35:51,180 I've been working on the programme for the last eight 596 00:35:51,190 --> 00:35:53,490 years. Responding to climate change is 597 00:35:53,500 --> 00:35:56,000 one of the Trust's top two priorities in our current 598 00:35:56,010 --> 00:35:58,150 strategy. And the renewables programme has 599 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:02,730 been running since 2013. The to reduce our all use and to 600 00:36:02,740 --> 00:36:06,570 deliver a target that we set ourselves of getting 50% of our 601 00:36:06,580 --> 00:36:10,850 energy from renewables by 2021 against the 2008 baseline. 602 00:36:11,220 --> 00:36:13,110 That was the first phase of our programme. 603 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,710 So we we delivered over 130 renewable energy projects, 604 00:36:16,780 --> 00:36:21,770 properties that included things like hydropower stations, solar 605 00:36:21,780 --> 00:36:25,720 installations, heat pumps and biomass boilers across our 606 00:36:25,730 --> 00:36:28,240 properties. We're now kind of moving forward 607 00:36:28,290 --> 00:36:31,780 into the second phase of that programme that is very much 608 00:36:31,790 --> 00:36:35,560 targeted on the ambition from the National Trust to get to net 609 00:36:35,570 --> 00:36:40,140 Carbon 0 by 2030. And my part in that is along our 610 00:36:40,150 --> 00:36:43,200 other lead project manager, I'm responsible for delivering the 611 00:36:43,210 --> 00:36:46,300 heat side of that renewable energy programme going forward. 612 00:36:46,430 --> 00:36:50,530 So that is working with our the team of 6 project managers to 613 00:36:50,540 --> 00:36:54,770 implement again replacement of oil boilers and gas boilers, our 614 00:36:54,780 --> 00:36:57,980 properties with things like heat pumps and biomass boilers. 615 00:36:58,620 --> 00:37:01,250 I guess there's all different kinds of stakeholders who or 616 00:37:01,260 --> 00:37:03,610 partners that you're involved that are involved in the 617 00:37:03,620 --> 00:37:06,070 projects. And there's a huge number of 618 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,230 stakeholders involved. You can imagine the 619 00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:10,530 sensitivities of a National Trust site. 620 00:37:10,580 --> 00:37:13,990 We are designated up to the eyeballs in many of our sites, 621 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,950 whether that be environmental designations for ecology, 622 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,320 whether it be archaeology, obviously the sensitivity of 623 00:37:21,330 --> 00:37:24,220 listed buildings and any kind of works that take place within 624 00:37:24,230 --> 00:37:26,690 those. So there's a huge number of both 625 00:37:26,740 --> 00:37:31,790 internal and external consultees that we need to involve in in 626 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,980 our projects. Do you enjoy that side of 627 00:37:33,990 --> 00:37:34,940 things? Because I always think of 628 00:37:34,950 --> 00:37:37,410 project management as being as much about the people side of 629 00:37:37,420 --> 00:37:39,910 things as the technical side of things. 630 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,010 What's been your experience so far? 631 00:37:42,020 --> 00:37:43,580 What What do you enjoy about your role? 632 00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:48,160 I really enjoy seeing the variety of places that we look 633 00:37:48,170 --> 00:37:51,760 after and and hearing some of the stories that you maybe don't 634 00:37:51,770 --> 00:37:53,740 get exposed to as a as a member of the public. 635 00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:57,770 Looking around from from those specialists in those really, you 636 00:37:57,780 --> 00:38:00,300 know, technical areas, whether someone's like a leather 637 00:38:00,310 --> 00:38:03,520 specialist or a specialist in a particular type of floor tile or 638 00:38:03,530 --> 00:38:06,720 a particular type of nut. And getting their insights into 639 00:38:06,730 --> 00:38:08,340 that, that project development process. 640 00:38:08,410 --> 00:38:10,840 It can be really tricky to manage when we've got lots of 641 00:38:10,850 --> 00:38:15,400 conflicting opinions about what is more important in terms of a 642 00:38:15,410 --> 00:38:17,650 project development. But yeah, it's really 643 00:38:17,660 --> 00:38:20,850 interesting as well. How important to you personally 644 00:38:20,860 --> 00:38:25,450 is it to be working on in renewable energy in that area 645 00:38:25,460 --> 00:38:27,960 for the Trust? Yeah, it's really important. 646 00:38:27,970 --> 00:38:31,480 I've worked in in energy my whole career and I started off 647 00:38:31,630 --> 00:38:34,780 working on fossil fuel power stations, but always with a view 648 00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:38,040 of getting into renewables and I've worked on wind energy, wave 649 00:38:38,050 --> 00:38:41,000 and tidal energy and now we're in kind of renewable heat and 650 00:38:41,010 --> 00:38:43,740 solar as well. So that's really my passion and 651 00:38:43,750 --> 00:38:47,120 and doing it at places that are to be enjoyed by the public as a 652 00:38:47,130 --> 00:38:49,750 whole and making them more sustainable just makes it even 653 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,620 more, you know, ambitious and enjoyable. 654 00:38:53,110 --> 00:38:56,320 How are your projects, or other projects of this particular 655 00:38:56,330 --> 00:38:59,230 programme, shaping the direction of the National Trust? 656 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,110 I think having delivered this programme that was set up 657 00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,150 started up looking at a 2008 baseline set up in 2013. 658 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,370 So it's been running a long time now and it's one of the first 659 00:39:10,380 --> 00:39:14,410 programmes that the Trust had as I believe. 660 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,710 And so I think that the success of that and seeing the benefits 661 00:39:17,720 --> 00:39:21,410 that can come from working as a programme have fed into the way 662 00:39:21,420 --> 00:39:24,450 that the Trust kind of now works going forward with programmes is 663 00:39:24,460 --> 00:39:28,810 a lot more programmes been set up to deliver strategic 664 00:39:28,820 --> 00:39:33,170 priorities for the organisation. I mean, how long have you been 665 00:39:33,180 --> 00:39:35,210 in project management? Have you always, Was it always 666 00:39:35,220 --> 00:39:37,870 something you wanted to do? How did you end up becoming a 667 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,530 project manager? I guess I've always been in 668 00:39:41,580 --> 00:39:44,560 project management really in one form or another. 669 00:39:44,570 --> 00:39:48,910 So initially worked on the the Empower graduate scheme as an 670 00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,910 engineer part of their graduate scheme, but that immediately was 671 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,990 going into to large scale projects and working with their 672 00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,250 fossil fuel coal power station development team. 673 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:03,290 So huge, huge projects you know taking decades really in 674 00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:07,110 development. And then I've I've been kind of 675 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:11,370 at the project manager level for the development of. 676 00:40:11,460 --> 00:40:14,730 Wind farms like onshore wind farms, so taking those through 677 00:40:14,950 --> 00:40:18,350 through to the consenting stage but then handed them over to to 678 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:20,400 another stage. Again, quite large scale 679 00:40:20,410 --> 00:40:24,040 projects and now the projects that I work on and that my team 680 00:40:24,050 --> 00:40:28,620 work on, we take them all the way from feasibility through to 681 00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:32,660 through planning process, through the tendering process to 682 00:40:32,670 --> 00:40:35,240 appoint the contractor, manage them through the construction 683 00:40:35,250 --> 00:40:38,620 phase and really important manage that handover process to 684 00:40:38,630 --> 00:40:42,000 make sure that the end users are really happy with what they've 685 00:40:42,010 --> 00:40:44,780 got and often kind of ongoing support beyond that as well. 686 00:40:45,890 --> 00:40:48,380 And now you're chartered, so that's quite recent. 687 00:40:48,390 --> 00:40:50,480 So congratulations on achieving that. 688 00:40:50,530 --> 00:40:53,780 What does it mean to be chartered and and and in fact, 689 00:40:53,790 --> 00:40:58,020 what has it meant to have a kind of professional framework laid 690 00:40:58,030 --> 00:40:59,750 out for you within the National Trust? 691 00:41:00,530 --> 00:41:02,780 Thank you. Yeah I I got my chartership I 692 00:41:02,790 --> 00:41:06,400 think in November. I think it it shows that the 693 00:41:06,410 --> 00:41:09,380 national Trusts really investing in the development of their 694 00:41:09,470 --> 00:41:13,400 their people and and recognising project management as a as a 695 00:41:13,410 --> 00:41:18,380 professional skill in itself. And I think by investing in that 696 00:41:18,390 --> 00:41:22,740 training and and having the framework that we then follow as 697 00:41:22,750 --> 00:41:26,730 an organisation is really brings on the quality of the projects 698 00:41:26,740 --> 00:41:30,190 that we're delivering and make sure that we are controlling 699 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:34,200 things like scope much more carefully and and obviously time 700 00:41:34,210 --> 00:41:38,030 cost quality throughout the the project, recycle the, the 701 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,100 chartership. I think for me it's my team, 702 00:41:41,110 --> 00:41:43,650 we're all going through like the project management qualification 703 00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:47,030 and by going through the judge publication it you know allows 704 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:50,430 me to sort of remember those sort of technical things a bit 705 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,710 more and be supportive from that point of view. 706 00:41:52,780 --> 00:41:54,910 I think it carries a bit of authority when you're talking to 707 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,630 clients and and project teams as they're as a project manager, 708 00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,840 well that's a a lead project manager on a project. 709 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,090 It gives gives a bit more gravitas I suppose. 710 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:06,330 Yeah, absolutely. And and what kind of 711 00:42:06,340 --> 00:42:09,150 professional support do you receive, not only from within 712 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,950 the National Trust, but? Do you use any APM? 713 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,200 Resources at all. I've been listening to your 714 00:42:15,210 --> 00:42:18,340 podcast quite a bit actually recently, but when I was going 715 00:42:18,350 --> 00:42:22,680 through the chartership process. Can you tell me about lessons 716 00:42:22,690 --> 00:42:27,240 learned at National Trust? How does the Trust record and 717 00:42:27,250 --> 00:42:30,800 share valuable experience on projects around the 718 00:42:30,810 --> 00:42:35,060 organisation? So a very basic level within our 719 00:42:35,070 --> 00:42:38,570 we've got a like a project management workbook that we use 720 00:42:38,630 --> 00:42:42,240 and certainly within my team we have a lessons learned log 721 00:42:42,250 --> 00:42:44,400 within that. So that as you're going through 722 00:42:44,410 --> 00:42:48,240 each month, month and updating your your workbook you can think 723 00:42:48,250 --> 00:42:50,360 of or what lessons have I learned this month and you can 724 00:42:50,370 --> 00:42:53,120 make a note of them. And then those those get picked 725 00:42:53,130 --> 00:42:57,200 up at our at what we call a Gate 4 review which is like an end of 726 00:42:57,210 --> 00:43:01,080 project review. But in in our team as a 727 00:43:01,090 --> 00:43:04,370 programme, we undertake those using our programme officers. 728 00:43:04,450 --> 00:43:07,950 So there's that continuity from 11 project to the next. 729 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:12,710 And those project offices also facilitate our startup meetings 730 00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:15,630 for our new projects, which is fantastic because it means that 731 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,270 all of the that those kind of golden gems and Nuggets that 732 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,500 have come specifically from, in this case, you know, renewable 733 00:43:21,510 --> 00:43:24,590 energy projects that you can then bring those forward and 734 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,090 they can connect people up with others who've been through 735 00:43:27,100 --> 00:43:31,190 similar similar projects or technologies and then they can 736 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:32,700 apply them in those projects going forward. 737 00:43:33,580 --> 00:43:36,650 Am I right in thinking that your programme or the projects you 738 00:43:36,660 --> 00:43:40,090 work on in terms of renewable energy, the you're you're doing 739 00:43:40,420 --> 00:43:44,430 the same thing multiple times, so it might be unknown putting 740 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,710 in a ground source heat pump in one property that will then be 741 00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:51,010 replicated across other properties, is that is that how 742 00:43:51,020 --> 00:43:53,810 it how it's organised? Yeah, absolutely. 743 00:43:53,820 --> 00:43:57,430 So every project is unique because every property has its 744 00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:02,430 own unique quirks and designations and people of 745 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,890 course. But yeah, the whole benefit of 746 00:44:05,900 --> 00:44:09,690 of doing this as a programme is that we're able to share their 747 00:44:09,700 --> 00:44:12,390 documents like the our, our. At the moment, one of the things 748 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:16,070 that I'm working on is making sure that our feasibility scope 749 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,170 of work that we give to our consultants is delivering 750 00:44:19,180 --> 00:44:20,670 everything that we wanted to deliver. 751 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,450 And then that document will be used and adapted for each of our 752 00:44:23,460 --> 00:44:25,510 projects to make sure we're getting the same information on 753 00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,740 each down to even actually giving them a a template for our 754 00:44:28,750 --> 00:44:30,800 feasibility studies. So that we we make sure we're 755 00:44:30,810 --> 00:44:32,990 getting all of the key data that we need. 756 00:44:33,780 --> 00:44:36,070 But then through you know through the planning process 757 00:44:36,140 --> 00:44:38,160 there's always things that you can take from other similar 758 00:44:38,170 --> 00:44:40,260 projects. And obviously we've got the 759 00:44:40,270 --> 00:44:44,280 costs of the implementation of the last grants will support 760 00:44:44,290 --> 00:44:46,910 project for example that we did or biomass boiler project that 761 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,980 we did. We've got fuel costs for our 762 00:44:49,990 --> 00:44:53,100 existing properties that we can work into our investment 763 00:44:53,110 --> 00:44:57,520 appraisals and and yeah, there's there's loads and loads of 764 00:44:57,530 --> 00:45:01,620 things that we can bring from one similar project to a next, 765 00:45:01,670 --> 00:45:03,030 next project within our programme. 766 00:45:03,690 --> 00:45:07,220 Is your project team then centrally based or based and 767 00:45:07,230 --> 00:45:09,400 then they go out to the different projects? 768 00:45:09,410 --> 00:45:13,690 Or how do you organise it in terms of project team that 769 00:45:13,700 --> 00:45:17,700 you're running and then the actual sort of individual 770 00:45:17,710 --> 00:45:20,180 projects that might be in locations all around the 771 00:45:20,190 --> 00:45:22,970 country? So from an organisational 772 00:45:22,980 --> 00:45:26,320 structure point of view, we sit centrally but physically they're 773 00:45:26,330 --> 00:45:29,450 located each of the project managers within the regions and 774 00:45:29,460 --> 00:45:33,560 face it within hubs or often home based or. 775 00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:36,050 But then be going out to properties locally to them and 776 00:45:36,060 --> 00:45:40,210 get to know the the specialist consultants that that are you 777 00:45:40,220 --> 00:45:43,090 know NT employees that may be specialists in archaeology or 778 00:45:43,100 --> 00:45:45,590 ecology or planning in their regions. 779 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,670 So they get to know those people, and those people then 780 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:52,490 work on multiple projects. I wanted to ask you what it what 781 00:45:52,500 --> 00:45:56,090 it means to have a team that's professionally trained in 782 00:45:56,100 --> 00:45:57,860 project management. What? 783 00:45:57,870 --> 00:46:00,810 What does that mean for the delivery of projects and to the 784 00:46:00,820 --> 00:46:05,050 overall success of projects? One of the the things about 785 00:46:05,060 --> 00:46:08,100 having a team that is a dedicated team of project 786 00:46:08,110 --> 00:46:11,950 monitors, not only are they are they sort of technically expert 787 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:15,540 in that they they know how to follow the project management 788 00:46:15,550 --> 00:46:18,420 framework and they are making sure that they're keeping 789 00:46:18,430 --> 00:46:20,110 everything to time, cost and quality. 790 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,420 They're reviewing the risks, they're applying risks from 791 00:46:22,430 --> 00:46:25,090 other projects. But also the very fact that they 792 00:46:25,100 --> 00:46:28,680 are a dedicated project manager is a real bonus in our programme 793 00:46:28,780 --> 00:46:31,650 because otherwise these projects would be being delivered by 794 00:46:31,660 --> 00:46:35,580 operational teams that are being dragged in 20 different 795 00:46:35,590 --> 00:46:38,620 directions with things that are going on that are urgent that 796 00:46:38,630 --> 00:46:40,800 they can't, you know they have to deal with there and then. 797 00:46:41,050 --> 00:46:44,100 But by having a dedicated project management resource that 798 00:46:44,110 --> 00:46:47,510 you can put onto projects and that is their their focus and 799 00:46:47,520 --> 00:46:52,230 they draw on the expertise of the local operational team staff 800 00:46:52,270 --> 00:46:55,120 and and bring those in. But they they save their time by 801 00:46:55,130 --> 00:46:57,380 they deliver the project and they drive it forward and they 802 00:46:57,390 --> 00:46:59,950 make it happen. I think that that can't be 803 00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:01,400 underestimated, the benefit of that. 804 00:47:02,660 --> 00:47:06,630 I imagine the projects at National Trust are kind of quite 805 00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:10,190 unique just by the nature of the organisation and the different 806 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,710 sort of properties and land and coastline that it manages, but 807 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,100 could you tell us a bit about those unique challenges? 808 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,570 The most unusual was a property that was completely disconnected 809 00:47:22,580 --> 00:47:27,170 from the grid and we were looking looking to reduce as 810 00:47:27,180 --> 00:47:29,930 much as possible about oil consumption in their generator 811 00:47:29,980 --> 00:47:33,770 because all of that oil had to be transported across 812 00:47:33,980 --> 00:47:38,890 effectively the sea because it was it was it's quite off almost 813 00:47:38,900 --> 00:47:42,150 completely cut off from the the land which obviously is huge 814 00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,540 pollution risk cost a lot of money, produces a lot of carbon. 815 00:47:45,900 --> 00:47:48,840 So that that one was particularly interesting that we 816 00:47:48,850 --> 00:47:52,690 ended up putting in a reasonably a large solar array on that 817 00:47:52,700 --> 00:47:55,620 property and then having a a battery storage and generator 818 00:47:55,630 --> 00:47:58,230 system. What would you say the most 819 00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:01,170 important lessons you've learned from running projects at 820 00:48:01,180 --> 00:48:04,550 National Trusts, either for the way you run projects or lead 821 00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:05,590 projects? Or. 822 00:48:05,780 --> 00:48:09,030 Personally, the skills you need to be an effective project 823 00:48:09,390 --> 00:48:12,670 professional. I think this is applicable to 824 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:17,190 all projects but particularly within the National Trust is the 825 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:24,400 ability to facilitate lots of different viewpoints and ideas 826 00:48:24,830 --> 00:48:29,240 and to to get decisions made. So not being the decision maker 827 00:48:29,250 --> 00:48:32,960 as such because I am I am the project manager that is you know 828 00:48:33,050 --> 00:48:35,820 reporting into a client and and a sponsor who are ultimately 829 00:48:35,830 --> 00:48:38,890 making the decision. But the ability to draw together 830 00:48:38,900 --> 00:48:43,230 lots of information and present it in a business case 831 00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:48,280 effectively to to those making the decision and and and bring 832 00:48:48,290 --> 00:48:51,300 that team with you. So when I always find that if 833 00:48:51,310 --> 00:48:55,280 you have specialists in different subject areas and you 834 00:48:55,290 --> 00:48:58,090 need to reach a decision and conflicting views on where 835 00:48:58,100 --> 00:49:00,890 something should go or how something should be done, that 836 00:49:00,900 --> 00:49:03,430 we get them all those people together and and get that 837 00:49:03,500 --> 00:49:07,490 discussion as a whole, we we, we seem to still be able to reach a 838 00:49:07,500 --> 00:49:08,970 balanced decision at the end of the day. 839 00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:12,590 That's me. That's something I think many 840 00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,120 project professionals contend with. 841 00:49:14,130 --> 00:49:17,290 But have you got any tips? Actually, when you have to do 842 00:49:17,300 --> 00:49:19,770 this in real life? Have you? 843 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,950 Is there any kind of hacks or tips you've picked up about how 844 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:25,570 to facilitate conversations like that? 845 00:49:26,690 --> 00:49:29,940 Getting everyone together if you can in the same place and going 846 00:49:29,950 --> 00:49:32,640 and looking at something together, especially if it's 847 00:49:32,650 --> 00:49:36,020 like a physical construction project, getting out and walking 848 00:49:36,030 --> 00:49:40,110 the of the pipe work or the the area that's going to be 849 00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,040 disturbed or that going into the building that's going to be the 850 00:49:43,050 --> 00:49:45,900 plant room. If you can do that together, 851 00:49:45,950 --> 00:49:48,660 that always seems to be more productive than trying. 852 00:49:48,670 --> 00:49:50,560 You know sometimes you end up having to have one to one 853 00:49:50,570 --> 00:49:53,160 conversations just purely because of Diaries and not being 854 00:49:53,170 --> 00:49:56,270 able to get everyone together. But wherever possible, if you've 855 00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,900 got those those key viewpoints, if you can get them physically 856 00:49:59,910 --> 00:50:02,470 together, I find that's always really beneficial. 857 00:50:03,420 --> 00:50:05,970 What your career ambitions are, you're chartered. 858 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,380 I don't know that I've ever really had career ambitions as 859 00:50:09,390 --> 00:50:11,320 such. I I think what drives me 860 00:50:11,330 --> 00:50:15,440 personally is coming back to this, being interested in what 861 00:50:15,490 --> 00:50:18,700 it is that you're doing and and thinking that it's a useful and 862 00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:21,700 important thing to be doing for society as a whole or for the 863 00:50:21,830 --> 00:50:23,700 environment and planet as a whole. 864 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:27,320 And that's kind of always been what's driven me and kind of 865 00:50:27,330 --> 00:50:29,810 career decisions. Brilliant. 866 00:50:29,820 --> 00:50:32,170 Thank you. Uh, was there anything else you 867 00:50:32,180 --> 00:50:35,430 wanted to add? Yeah, I think what makes, what 868 00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:38,420 makes delivering projects part of what makes delivering 869 00:50:38,430 --> 00:50:41,180 projects in the National Trust Fund is that the colleagues that 870 00:50:41,190 --> 00:50:44,460 you work with and how skilled those people are in their 871 00:50:44,470 --> 00:50:47,360 particular areas of knowledge. And so you're both learning 872 00:50:47,370 --> 00:50:50,000 about those things which can be really interested, but you're 873 00:50:50,010 --> 00:50:52,540 bringing them together to be a project team. 874 00:50:52,630 --> 00:50:57,430 And when you all get hooked on the idea and and enthusiastic 875 00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,970 about it and delivering it, then that helps really drive the 876 00:51:00,980 --> 00:51:03,200 project forward. But it also makes it more 877 00:51:03,210 --> 00:51:05,460 enjoyable to work as part of that team with those 878 00:51:05,470 --> 00:51:08,320 interesting, passionate people. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of 879 00:51:08,330 --> 00:51:11,940 fun, actually. They thank you so much for your 880 00:51:11,950 --> 00:51:14,370 time. It's been an eye opener speaking 881 00:51:14,380 --> 00:51:15,670 to you. Brilliant. 882 00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,060 Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. 883 00:51:22,630 --> 00:51:25,120 When most people think of the National Trust, they think of 884 00:51:25,130 --> 00:51:28,550 historic houses or the work it does along the coast of England. 885 00:51:28,750 --> 00:51:32,100 This episode I've learned about its increasingly important role 886 00:51:32,110 --> 00:51:35,300 in cities and how project management is central to its 887 00:51:35,310 --> 00:51:38,500 working renewables. Both these areas of focus are 888 00:51:38,510 --> 00:51:41,980 guiding the future direction of the National Trust, and Joe, 889 00:51:42,030 --> 00:51:45,820 Emma, Andy seem truly excited and driven by their mission. 890 00:51:46,270 --> 00:51:49,200 In episode 3, I'll be meeting 3 project management. 891 00:51:49,210 --> 00:51:52,290 Apprentices at the National Trust will be telling me all 892 00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:54,070 about their work, so don't miss it. 893 00:51:54,380 --> 00:51:57,830 Thanks again to Joe, Emma, Andy and to you for listening. 894 00:51:57,900 --> 00:52:00,430 As ever, we want to hear your comments, feedback and 895 00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:05,190 suggestions at apmpodcasts@thinkpublishing.co.uk.