1 00:00:08,900 --> 00:00:12,300 Welcome to the IPM podcast. APM is the childhood body for 2 00:00:12,300 --> 00:00:15,600 the project profession. My name is Emma divita and I'm 3 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:19,200 the editor of project apm's quarterly journal and your host 4 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:21,900 today. I'm speaking to Nico, Vincent 5 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:25,600 subsea project manager of the endurance, 22 Expedition that on 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,200 the 5th of March this year. Found the wreck of endurance sir 7 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:31,700 Ernest Shackleton Owens ship which sank off the coast of 8 00:00:31,700 --> 00:00:33,700 Antarctica hundred and seven years ago. 9 00:00:34,700 --> 00:00:37,200 The wreckage was discovered at a depth of three thousand and 10 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,300 eight meters around for miles south of where it was reported 11 00:00:40,300 --> 00:00:45,000 to have been lost by frankerz endurance's captain in 1915 12 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:49,800 endurance. 22, set off from Cape Town in February, this year, 13 00:00:50,100 --> 00:00:53,300 with a team of 63 people, plus the crew aboard, the South 14 00:00:53,300 --> 00:00:57,600 African Icebreaker, a glass. To the Expedition has reportedly 15 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:02,500 cost around 7.6 million pounds. And this podcast, Snicker 16 00:01:02,500 --> 00:01:06,000 explains how the project team used to sob Sabretooth hybrid 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,700 underwater search vehicles to find the Shipwreck. 18 00:01:09,100 --> 00:01:12,400 One of the most complex subsea projects ever undertaken. 19 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,200 He spent 30 years recovering, deep-sea wrecks, and gives us 20 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,400 his project management insights. And what it takes to prepare for 21 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:22,800 a once-in-a-lifetime project like this, how it feels to see 22 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,000 such a piece of history and the lessons he takes away from the 23 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:35,000 successful project. Welcome Nico. 24 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,900 Thank you for giving us your time, really interested in 25 00:01:37,900 --> 00:01:41,300 finding out more about endurance. 22, would you like to 26 00:01:41,300 --> 00:01:43,600 start by giving us an overview of the project? 27 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,400 What its mission was the goals deliverables. 28 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,600 Milestones, how long you've been working on this? 29 00:01:49,700 --> 00:01:54,600 The purpose of endurance. 22 was to discover the wreck of the 30 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:59,700 endurance lost in 1915 by the Expedition led by Sir, Ernest 31 00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:03,500 Shackleton. And then to deliver a full 32 00:02:03,500 --> 00:02:08,000 survey of the wreck to roll all science analyzes for for the 33 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,300 next decades because it's so much complicated to go there. 34 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,200 Can you tell us where it where it is so rich? 35 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:18,200 So, it's in the Antarctic, but can you describe the condition 36 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,600 sir? It's is in them where they'll 37 00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:25,800 see, which is one of the most complicated see of the world, 38 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:31,600 because there is a lot of highs see highs on this area, and they 39 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,300 are quite unpredictable. And this is something which have 40 00:02:34,300 --> 00:02:36,500 been generated a lot of issue by the way. 41 00:02:37,100 --> 00:02:41,700 So which generate, the reason why this wreck was the most 42 00:02:41,700 --> 00:02:49,300 complicated to find not because she was really lost, but the 43 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,700 access to the area is so, so, so complicated. 44 00:02:52,700 --> 00:02:56,500 So I have been in charge to lead all operation as soon as the 45 00:02:56,500 --> 00:03:01,200 vessel arrived on site and the trust asked to join cheers. 46 00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:05,200 The Expedition leader to lead above the surface and me to 47 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,300 drive all operation Under the Sea. 48 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,000 However, to run operation plan. I was obliged to control surface 49 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,700 support as well. So it was including this so 50 00:03:14,700 --> 00:03:16,800 navigation, and the copter flight plan. 51 00:03:17,100 --> 00:03:19,900 I scam strategy and all of the Quest. 52 00:03:19,900 --> 00:03:23,500 I like science and major for example, because the media and 53 00:03:23,500 --> 00:03:27,000 education was quite important for this project, the project 54 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,700 primary task. As I just mentioned, was to look 55 00:03:29,700 --> 00:03:33,500 at the endurance. But as the rack is protected by 56 00:03:33,500 --> 00:03:37,300 the Antarctic treaty, we have been forbidden to touch 57 00:03:37,300 --> 00:03:39,600 anything, so we needed to produce. 58 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,600 I have a solution survey of the rack to allow science and 59 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,700 archaeologists to produce science report. 60 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:51,500 The project schedule for me started in February 20, 19. 61 00:03:51,500 --> 00:03:55,900 When the previous expedition in Los the auv, an autonomous 62 00:03:55,900 --> 00:04:00,000 underwater vehicle own site. And I have been a immediately 63 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:05,400 contacted to bit new solution. So over two years has suggested 64 00:04:06,100 --> 00:04:11,300 some option and that finally convinced me to point as project 65 00:04:11,300 --> 00:04:17,600 manager on August 20, So the first step has been to launch 66 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,700 the manufacturing of the subtools, the auv. 67 00:04:20,700 --> 00:04:21,800 Yeah. Tell us more about the 68 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,400 saber-tooth. Well this happens to us is the 69 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:30,300 VAC or which is about to join 3,000 meters. 70 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:37,400 It's an auv which is manufactured, by Sub in Sweden 71 00:04:38,300 --> 00:04:41,500 and the main reason why we choose that vehicle. 72 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:47,900 It's because it's quite a Still one, it might be tasered or not. 73 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:54,000 And usually this kind of vehicle is fully autonomous and flying 74 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:58,900 fully autonomous underwater. But for this project, we asked 75 00:04:58,900 --> 00:05:02,900 to use a Taser at one, because this is a lesson learned from 76 00:05:02,900 --> 00:05:07,300 2019, which was to keep a permanent control and it 77 00:05:07,300 --> 00:05:10,100 anticipate, emergency ascent and incident. 78 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,600 And that's really a game changer on the highs. 79 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,800 So you started work on this project three years ago, in the 80 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:24,200 wake of a previous attempt to ReDiscover endurance. 81 00:05:24,300 --> 00:05:29,500 So can you explain just give an overview of do three years, what 82 00:05:29,500 --> 00:05:31,500 does that involve? So imagine I heard there were 83 00:05:31,500 --> 00:05:35,200 trials in France for the technology like how much I 84 00:05:35,207 --> 00:05:38,600 imagine 90% of that time was actually preparing. 85 00:05:39,700 --> 00:05:41,900 Yeah. Itís been a lot a long way 86 00:05:43,300 --> 00:05:50,300 because, um, I started to build the back on in September 20 and 87 00:05:51,100 --> 00:05:56,200 I led the manufacturing from scratch up to up to September 88 00:05:56,700 --> 00:05:59,300 21. It, it was almost a year, but as 89 00:05:59,300 --> 00:06:02,600 well in December 20, I started to build as well. 90 00:06:02,700 --> 00:06:05,800 The high scam solution because it has tasked to be ready for 91 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,600 any option compatible with any condition of ice. 92 00:06:08,900 --> 00:06:12,100 We are not sure of what kind of eyes we may face. 93 00:06:12,300 --> 00:06:16,600 So we were not sure that we may access to the area to the field 94 00:06:16,700 --> 00:06:20,900 where the vessel so solution using ice Camp was ready. 95 00:06:21,300 --> 00:06:24,000 Then spring, 21. I started to assembly all 96 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,500 procedures to complete full scope of work because scope of 97 00:06:27,500 --> 00:06:31,100 work has to be ready for six months before the operation. 98 00:06:31,100 --> 00:06:37,200 It was ready for August 21. And in September 21, we started 99 00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:44,600 we started Yeah, the f80 if it is of the vehicle and the 100 00:06:44,608 --> 00:06:48,500 extended trials because we got so much better, so much sensors 101 00:06:48,500 --> 00:06:52,900 on the back, all that we ask at extended trials, then we came in 102 00:06:52,900 --> 00:06:57,600 France as you just mentioned and act about 21 to conductive sea 103 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,800 trials. The purpose of the deep sea 104 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:06,000 trials was to send vehicle at the maximum depth that we would 105 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:11,500 have on the field and be ready to have anticipate any failure 106 00:07:11,500 --> 00:07:16,000 that the vacuum has suffered. And finally we got ice ice 107 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,100 operation simulations in October 21 as well. 108 00:07:21,300 --> 00:07:28,100 We tried to deploy ice camp on honest entity guys. 109 00:07:28,300 --> 00:07:33,700 It has been quite fun and we as well deploy our launch and 110 00:07:33,700 --> 00:07:37,600 Recovery ice launch and recovery system overall barge to look, if 111 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,600 we are able to launch the God because you have to keep in mind 112 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,300 that to reduce time to drill the eyes, which might be up to 5 m 113 00:07:44,500 --> 00:07:49,400 sickness and make the decision to build a huge drill Holger 114 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,300 that we built from scratch as well and to reduce Time, Lord 115 00:07:53,300 --> 00:07:56,300 willing, we make the decision to launch the vehicle vertically. 116 00:07:56,300 --> 00:07:59,600 So you have to imagine that we have a card which is the size 117 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:03,800 and the weight of your own car and we got the and all 118 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,700 positives. What to move it up to two men, 119 00:08:06,900 --> 00:08:10,200 two meters from the ground. Move it It vertically and launch 120 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:15,300 it through 5 m, i sickness. So all of these require a lot of 121 00:08:15,300 --> 00:08:18,800 engineering and then we have to recover it and the opposite way, 122 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,200 if you see my point. So, finally make all these 123 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:28,500 trials and we send all equipment in, in South Africa, in December 124 00:08:28,500 --> 00:08:34,700 21, mobilizing in January 22 in South Africa. 125 00:08:34,700 --> 00:08:38,100 In Cape Town and left, early, February 22. 126 00:08:38,900 --> 00:08:44,100 And lest had that covid-19 has been a real interference on this 127 00:08:44,100 --> 00:08:50,400 plan mainly on shipment and procurement which because Global 128 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:54,000 shortage was everywhere. So it's generated so much so 129 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,100 much interference too many where each each project must be so 130 00:08:58,100 --> 00:09:02,800 unique and so rare. And so complex that you have to 131 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:07,300 come with an open mind that that can find Creative Solutions or 132 00:09:07,300 --> 00:09:12,000 be inevitable. Or I guess you have to have that 133 00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:15,200 mindset that approach to work on a project like this. 134 00:09:16,700 --> 00:09:20,100 Absolutely. And Angeles, 22 is a good 135 00:09:20,100 --> 00:09:23,200 example of that. I spent a year to build 136 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,300 procedures scope of work. That's plan survey planning 137 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,600 deployment on nice helicopter. Flight plans time Computing 138 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,900 schedules. And finally the reason why I 139 00:09:33,908 --> 00:09:38,700 wasn't bored is because we were all open that. 140 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:44,500 Nothing will be run as expected the the condition, the unfilled, 141 00:09:44,500 --> 00:09:48,500 mental condition on site, are so complicated that you cannot 142 00:09:48,500 --> 00:09:51,400 anticipate all. All all scenarios. 143 00:09:51,700 --> 00:09:56,000 Even if you have many ideas or what you will suffer if I miss 144 00:09:56,000 --> 00:10:00,200 is that wall. Yeah, and you cannot anticipate 145 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:02,200 everything and it has been talking to reason why I have 146 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,800 been on board because usually on the substantive trees, a project 147 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,700 manager, stay on the office and you have a straight link with 148 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:13,400 what we call the Rapture manager and the offshore manager is just 149 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:20,100 make the make the work of shore here and the complexity of the 150 00:10:20,100 --> 00:10:24,600 variables that we faced met obligations that I was on board. 151 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,800 So as I like to say, I was walking with my option manager 152 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:35,000 which were on the next door, but as I like to say, I was still 153 00:10:35,300 --> 00:10:38,300 Huli Huli the plan and it was run the plan. 154 00:10:38,300 --> 00:10:44,500 Yeah. But so okay and when you I'm 155 00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:48,600 interested because you must have had a team that reported to you, 156 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,300 how big was that team? Or was it just a couple of 157 00:10:51,300 --> 00:10:56,800 people find you once 22? We were 1660. 158 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,000 Okay. See you leading a team of 16? 159 00:11:00,300 --> 00:11:03,900 How do you create a team around you? 160 00:11:03,900 --> 00:11:08,900 For this kind of project that is cohesive that can react to To 161 00:11:08,900 --> 00:11:11,300 the unexpected. Is there any particular? 162 00:11:11,300 --> 00:11:16,500 So I guess what I met trying to understand is how do you lead a 163 00:11:16,500 --> 00:11:19,800 project team that has to be inevitable? 164 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,700 That has to think on its feet that has to deal with the 165 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:28,800 unexpected. The teams that I chosen was 166 00:11:29,300 --> 00:11:34,300 chosen for several reasons. The first one is their skills. 167 00:11:34,500 --> 00:11:38,900 Of course, we got the requirement to have several 168 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:44,600 different skills for these people, but in editions, I walk 169 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:50,800 with the same kind of people since quite a long time almost 170 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,000 20 years. And the reason of that is that 171 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,400 because we have some Relationship, which is extremely 172 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:03,900 strong each other, and all these people, they are aware, and they 173 00:12:03,900 --> 00:12:07,800 are and this is a normal way for them to work on this kind of 174 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:12,300 project where you have to be very, very close each other. 175 00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:16,200 And the consequence of that is that most of these people are 176 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,500 like a family. And, and this is a culture which 177 00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:23,700 is quite important for us. Because, usually again on the 178 00:12:23,700 --> 00:12:28,000 subject, this tree also, So expertise really disconnected 179 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,300 from from each other. And people are other strong 180 00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:34,100 task, very important task and they do not look at what the 181 00:12:34,500 --> 00:12:37,900 hoses to on when you are doing project like this. 182 00:12:37,900 --> 00:12:41,300 This is the opposite. People have to be very strong 183 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:46,800 Connections in between each other and the leadership is 184 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,700 switching from a guy to the other according the expertise. 185 00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:53,000 But whatever is the walk. Everybody is walking by hands. 186 00:12:53,300 --> 00:12:57,500 Okay, so that means that At your boss of the morning because you 187 00:12:57,500 --> 00:13:02,600 drive, you drive an auv, be can become your, your support on the 188 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,200 afternoon because you do electronics. 189 00:13:04,500 --> 00:13:08,300 So, and this is with that way. Something that allowed me to 190 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:11,500 build a very, very strong, strong connection between 191 00:13:11,900 --> 00:13:15,000 people. And even if our chain of command 192 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:21,700 is quite strong, the people have a lot of freedom inside the team 193 00:13:21,700 --> 00:13:24,700 because they know that when we record the expertise they will 194 00:13:24,700 --> 00:13:28,400 have three hands. So so that's pretty thing. 195 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,800 A very very strong relationship. Okay. 196 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,300 Are you a trained project manager? 197 00:13:34,300 --> 00:13:38,900 Do you have project management? Qualifications, that's a good 198 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:43,500 question and the answer is no, I thought I thought that might be. 199 00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:49,200 So have you how have you learnt the project management side of 200 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,400 things? I started my career in the 201 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:57,600 French company called Comics which at that time was the world 202 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,800 leader in the steps industry and most efficient in oil and gas 203 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:07,400 and the culture of the end of the company was to look at each 204 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,200 people individually and purge them on their level of 205 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:15,800 expertise. Apparently, I got some leading 206 00:14:16,300 --> 00:14:20,000 skills immediately, which have been detect and I have been 207 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:24,800 pushed on 29 and I followed the internal training in the company 208 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,700 to step after step. Okay? 209 00:14:27,900 --> 00:14:30,700 And then the company has been absorbed by another group, and 210 00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:34,200 the group became Higher, and Higher, and Higher and corn. 211 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,900 Now, sub c 7, which is one of the most important subsequent 212 00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:42,000 director of the world. So you learn, you learn from the 213 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,500 company and from the project and that it has been my path. 214 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,700 And I must admit, I never follow any training and never follow 215 00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:52,100 any. Educational for that. 216 00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:57,100 I have been always learning on my own project after project and 217 00:14:57,100 --> 00:15:00,300 what have you been your biggest lessons are from about project 218 00:15:00,300 --> 00:15:02,100 management, how to manage projects. 219 00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:06,000 I think that most fishing on the project that I do, because which 220 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,000 is, which are unusual. No special one, you have to keep 221 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:14,500 what, what is the final goal? And when you know what is the 222 00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:18,400 final goal, you have to involve your team to this final goal and 223 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:24,300 you have to to drive them to have to keep in mind this final 224 00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:28,600 goal and on their own level of expertise, which is all part of 225 00:15:28,608 --> 00:15:33,900 the project and you must always keep in mind and always be 226 00:15:33,900 --> 00:15:39,700 extremely versatile to absorb any, an expectation that you 227 00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:41,500 have to manage to keep that goal. 228 00:15:42,300 --> 00:15:45,500 I say you that because especially project can be quite 229 00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:48,500 different. For example, I am consultant 230 00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:54,700 from from the French investigation for any aircraft 231 00:15:54,700 --> 00:15:57,400 incident in car deep water. Okay? 232 00:15:58,300 --> 00:16:02,100 When you have this kind of jobs is extremely different than 233 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:07,700 searching the endurance or searching submarine for Navy's, 234 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:13,000 because my team phone as well, the Hassan one, Fans summer in 235 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,400 Me. Now from the French navy which 236 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:20,800 has been lost since 1968. And when you focus on this kind 237 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:25,000 of project, the expectation of the client for my sis with might 238 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,100 be quite different. So the to keep the goal is quite 239 00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:31,000 important actually because you give us an idea of what it was 240 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,800 like to be on deck and and and how you what's it like to be in 241 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:40,400 a project team at such Close Quarters and under such 242 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:41,800 pressure. What's that noise? 243 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,000 Like as a project leader to manage. 244 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,200 And what are the? What are the challenges? 245 00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:52,500 Advantage, when you walk with Rick on people, is that you knew 246 00:16:52,500 --> 00:16:56,800 you knew them. They know you went as well as, 247 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,000 you know, each other. That's a low-wing to have 248 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,000 automatic balance that you do not have to manage, okay? 249 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:09,599 So, and when you are in difficult, constraint, as you 250 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:14,700 just mentioned, which is what that we live all together during 251 00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:19,400 months and months, which is Is something normal for us because 252 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:24,700 we do that or all the year. But for underwent, 22, in 253 00:17:24,700 --> 00:17:27,400 addition, we were on an icebreaker. 254 00:17:27,900 --> 00:17:32,200 And we were on a product area which is quite unusual for us. 255 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,100 So we have been obliged to adapt herself to the other people. 256 00:17:37,100 --> 00:17:41,100 For example, we got a lot of scientists on board, the vessel 257 00:17:41,700 --> 00:17:46,000 how many people on the vessel the Expedition team was 65. 258 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:57,500 And the crew 45 also. 663 not 65 and subsea Department was 16 but 259 00:17:57,500 --> 00:18:02,000 we got as well a full team of any copter pilot and technician. 260 00:18:03,300 --> 00:18:08,100 We got a full science team which conducted additional science in 261 00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:13,100 parallel of inseam ups with our operations and we got as well as 262 00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:17,500 a full media team which make a lot of Things to build a 263 00:18:17,700 --> 00:18:22,300 documentary, all of these have to have to be layer on top of 264 00:18:22,300 --> 00:18:25,700 what we do usually. So here the challenge was to 265 00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:31,000 manage your own usual activities with all these people for who is 266 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:37,100 not something normal. And, and it's from time to time 267 00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:39,600 this is generated quite difference is because these 268 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:46,800 people, the come up short one or two times per year as the it, we 269 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,900 are offshore the full year so like the crew. 270 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:57,700 And so we have to adapt all ourselves to work together. 271 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,500 But the life on board is quite between each other. 272 00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:06,000 It's quite something that we are ready for. 273 00:19:06,100 --> 00:19:10,700 We run, watch of 12 hours on 12 hours of for example. 274 00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:13,400 Okay? So the full team is organized to 275 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:19,600 work 12 hours per day on the Undone an entrance, 22. 276 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,700 Most of the guy made a huge over time, not because only we got 277 00:19:23,700 --> 00:19:27,200 issues the first days, but because the loved what they do. 278 00:19:27,700 --> 00:19:33,400 Okay, so even if we Face several equipment failure, even if we 279 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:37,300 have an incident, even if it's not working properly, even if 280 00:19:37,300 --> 00:19:42,200 it's hard, even if they are cold, if you are able to work on 281 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,900 something, which is so much exciting attractive. 282 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,700 People respond on their own most specially if they like each 283 00:19:49,700 --> 00:19:52,200 other. I'm not sure if it is replying 284 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,600 to the your initial question. No, this is all very interesting 285 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,900 because you will highly motivated. 286 00:19:58,900 --> 00:20:02,800 I think actually the obvious question to ask is, when you 287 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:07,600 first found the wreck, what did can you talk us through? 288 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,800 What it was like to actually to see it and was it what you 289 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:16,300 imagined or what did it feel like we're searching the 290 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:21,600 DirectBuy, side-scan sonar. It's a device which looking at 291 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,600 the seabed by an acoustic purse, each side, each side of the 292 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:28,700 vehicle. So it's reproducing. 293 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:35,000 A cbet imagery which is equal for this project at almost two 294 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,000 mice, a Channel of almost 1, nautical miles. 295 00:20:39,700 --> 00:20:46,300 And on this images you can recognize rocks, sand mud, 296 00:20:46,500 --> 00:20:48,500 Right. So it's quite detailed. 297 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:51,800 Yeah. And you need very, very skilled 298 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,400 people to, to analyze images because this is It's. 299 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,800 So now imagine it's not video. Let me explain its like if 300 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:04,000 you're flying on an aircraft on the, on the desert, okay? 301 00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:08,900 And with the the sun which coming down, you can find what 302 00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:12,000 is high of the of the dunes, thanks to the length of the 303 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,600 Shadow. Okay? 304 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,100 That's exactly the same that except that we Do not using 305 00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:20,700 light, but, but Acoustics. So it's with shadows and legs of 306 00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:23,400 Shadows. That you may say, if you are 307 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,000 find a wreck or rock or something else here on entrance 308 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:33,900 22, the first heat give it gave us a lot of Joy's many as 309 00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:37,900 because it was so close to the captain Worsley put initial 310 00:21:37,900 --> 00:21:43,300 position but finally it was a new debris and not the full ship 311 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:48,800 full vessel on the Last two. Everybody was extremely excited 312 00:21:49,300 --> 00:21:53,000 the but unfortunately it was a deception because just the a 313 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,900 breeze on the rag. So when we found the wreck on 314 00:21:55,900 --> 00:22:00,300 the second heat, I pressurize the team to stay very concerned, 315 00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:02,000 right? Very professional and very 316 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,900 quiet. So I said to them, I want 317 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,400 everybody to some quiet. Until we have not only a sauna 318 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:15,100 heat, but visual confirmation on the video camera because you 319 00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:17,900 have to fly with the vehicle. All come back, make a 320 00:22:17,900 --> 00:22:20,600 circumcision, a hint in sana'a, resolution. 321 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:25,300 And then, finally, come back with to fly on it for the video 322 00:22:26,100 --> 00:22:30,400 shorting. So we got at least two hours 323 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,300 between the 1st and a heat and the video confirmation Cinema, 324 00:22:34,300 --> 00:22:36,300 spend slice two hours of your life. 325 00:22:36,300 --> 00:22:41,300 Probably, I was absolutely. But the guys, the guys was 326 00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:43,200 absolutely sure. Yeah. 327 00:22:43,300 --> 00:22:48,400 I got a son, an analyst on my side And this sauna analyst is 328 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:53,300 maybe one of the top five in the world in sana'a analyzing and I 329 00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:55,900 was looking in his eyes and he smiled. 330 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:03,400 So I was quite sure, but when we got the first video shooting 331 00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:07,600 footage, it was an accomplishment in the and great 332 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:12,900 relief and believe me, we saw the wreck, maybe 22 seconds and 333 00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:17,900 I said, okay go up. And then but the reason why is 334 00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:22,400 that we were pushing the batteries, I was asking how UV 335 00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:25,700 saboteurs pie that I want to see the with the camera I want to 336 00:23:25,700 --> 00:23:27,900 end. It was already saying I'm low 337 00:23:27,900 --> 00:23:29,800 batteries, I'm low batteries, I'm low batteries. 338 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,600 So the first first footage was very, very short. 339 00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:40,500 But it was absolutely absolutely amazing how into the wreck. 340 00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:44,400 Could you go, could you just see in terms of the video, just the 341 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,400 outside, or could you go right into the wreck? 342 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:54,500 Find you a nice, 22, our package of payload including cameras was 343 00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:59,400 not allowing to look inside. However, we got four kids, still 344 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:04,400 camera geography and said, which will hollowing to produce. 345 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,400 Absolutely wonderful. As 3D model like a 346 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,200 photogrametry. In addition we got laser leader 347 00:24:13,500 --> 00:24:16,600 which will allow us to have photogrammetry, which we have 348 00:24:16,700 --> 00:24:22,000 one millimeter resolution, but to going inside the rack, we 349 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,800 will need to come back with extra devising. 350 00:24:24,900 --> 00:24:26,800 It's a, is that a plan? Can you do that? 351 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:28,300 Is that something that might happen? 352 00:24:28,700 --> 00:24:33,300 Well, plenty people asking me the question already and my 353 00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:38,800 answer is yes, I have Plan. So I try to always have a plan 354 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:44,400 you know because that's that's a purpose and to come back on 355 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,900 project management and Isis is when you face difficulties, you 356 00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:52,700 have in your brain to have already two or three plants when 357 00:24:52,700 --> 00:24:57,600 we fall for the next issue. I personally would have been the 358 00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:02,100 highs and the lows. So I guess by Lowe's I mean the 359 00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:05,400 probably maybe the most stressful times or the hardest 360 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:11,100 times of working on endurance. 22 eyes, of course, the 361 00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:14,900 discovery lows as a very long list of you. 362 00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:17,700 An extra fiver you could do a part two. 363 00:25:17,700 --> 00:25:23,600 Yes it's days. Was a stressful time. 364 00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:26,700 Okay. You have to keep in mind that 365 00:25:26,700 --> 00:25:29,900 the previous team lost the vacuole after two, Dives. 366 00:25:30,300 --> 00:25:34,400 Okay, so my goal was not only to find engines but to come back 367 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:38,000 with my vehicle. Okay, we got a team agencia, 368 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:43,500 sent over 32 Dives but seeing the vehicle back on Deck. 369 00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:49,700 After last last dive with full scope accomplished, has been an 370 00:25:49,700 --> 00:25:56,100 extremely good time, believe me. It has been Most most I stand 371 00:25:56,100 --> 00:25:59,000 for me because it was an achievement. 372 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,300 We made it. Okay, and we made it without 373 00:26:02,300 --> 00:26:06,100 failure. So for me, frankly, the 374 00:26:06,100 --> 00:26:12,000 discovery is I point, but complete job with everything on 375 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:16,600 board without any incident and with all people in good in good 376 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,500 health has been very good as well and more specially because 377 00:26:20,500 --> 00:26:25,500 with, they faced the worst condition the Worst condition. 378 00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,600 You have to imagine that we got - 22 with 35 knots of wind, 379 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,000 which is equivalent of minus 40 degrees. 380 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,000 The equipment was freezing on Deck, the people was absolutely 381 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,400 freezing on day. They never say nothing. 382 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:45,200 They they accomplished a huge great work. 383 00:26:45,300 --> 00:26:51,100 And I am very proud about them and you must imagine that was so 384 00:26:51,100 --> 00:26:54,200 cold. General so much issue that we 385 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,900 call Guys from the highest camp and they help us to build tent 386 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:04,700 on vessel back deck with with eater with eater on it to keep 387 00:27:04,700 --> 00:27:08,000 our equipment. Warm enough to die. 388 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:13,400 For so why then was freezing and we got bigger issues, and we 389 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:15,900 spending time to repair before dive. 390 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,200 It has been extremely complicated. 391 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:23,600 So the the people achievement is huge. 392 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,300 What? What have been the lessons that 393 00:27:26,300 --> 00:27:30,700 you've learned from this mission that you will then apply to 394 00:27:30,700 --> 00:27:34,100 other other projects that you work on. 395 00:27:36,100 --> 00:27:37,800 Against a nice, a lot of listeners. 396 00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:42,500 The main reason is that it has been a world record. 397 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,300 The seabed survey over fixed location under under drifting 398 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:52,000 highs is a world record. We invent almost everything from 399 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,200 scratch. So the listen earn over polar 400 00:27:55,200 --> 00:28:00,900 environment is a huge list, huge one, and nobody made that before 401 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,400 you have to keep in mind that until now people doing a UV on 402 00:28:04,500 --> 00:28:07,300 The highs was launching an opponent, okay? 403 00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:13,000 And got a recovery Point already, prepare its and that's 404 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,100 the reason why the Canadian people are what we call on this. 405 00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:22,600 But on our side we were launching on the position, which 406 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,600 is optimized to cover a fixed location and then we drift with 407 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,500 ice. So, the recovery point was 408 00:28:29,500 --> 00:28:33,400 unknown, we're not able to anticipate where we will recover 409 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,000 the vehicle and Time to time. We are up 24, nautical miles 410 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,700 from the launch point and all of this to make it worked as been 411 00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:45,800 invent. And the listen learn from this 412 00:28:45,900 --> 00:28:49,300 is absolutely huge. And the consequence is on, 413 00:28:49,300 --> 00:28:51,700 listen on the project management is as well. 414 00:28:51,900 --> 00:28:57,700 Extremely huge affair with one project management lesson that 415 00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:00,300 you would want to share what that was because you've been 416 00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:02,700 doing this for 30 years. And still, you're learning, 417 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,600 still you're learning about how to run, On projects like this 418 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,800 manage lead is. So is there one lesson in 419 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:13,600 particular Springs to mind? I need to remember the warning 420 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,800 set by. So let's check it in himself. 421 00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:23,400 He said and difficulties are just things to overcome after 422 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,000 all. Have you ever met a challenge 423 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,300 that? Just he thought this is. 424 00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:30,600 I can't, I just just no way around this. 425 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:37,600 I think 122, as soon as we arrived a nice, I was sure that 426 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,600 helicopter on the primeknit was impossible and I spent a lot of 427 00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:45,700 time and work on this and, but as soon as we the Icebreaker 428 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,400 start to arrived on ice and stood straight away, that 429 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:54,000 helicopter deployment was too much Complicated by the reason 430 00:29:54,300 --> 00:29:59,200 that the environmental condition was not allowing the volume of 431 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:04,400 flight that I expected to Carly Camp so that must have been a 432 00:30:04,408 --> 00:30:07,000 big blow. Well, I keep fingers crossed 433 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:12,300 that the condition will allow us to join the field with a vest 434 00:30:12,300 --> 00:30:15,400 on. And and I came immediately to 435 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:20,100 the, to the conclusion that even if we spent a lot of time 436 00:30:20,100 --> 00:30:25,800 procedures than and and money to be ready to deploy from highs 437 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,700 deploying, from my students covers, younger ones would be 438 00:30:29,700 --> 00:30:32,200 almost impossible by lack of time. 439 00:30:32,300 --> 00:30:37,600 I'm because to install a camp, you have to understand that the 440 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,000 vehicle weight. Only the vehicle weight is one 441 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,200 point seven tons, okay? And the, and the initial maximum 442 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,900 capabilities of a cargo Flight of the a copter was 1.5 tons. 443 00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:52,100 So I was obliged to install nice. 444 00:30:52,100 --> 00:30:56,200 Certain ton of equipments to manage this vehicle, plus the 445 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,200 people, plus the safety, plus the consumable, and when you, 446 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,900 you had hold of this The five plan was so much complicated 447 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:10,600 that aircraft was on here, almost 24 hours seven and when 448 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,600 we arrive on site, the first thing that the pilot said that, 449 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:20,300 sorry guys, but I would maybe fly three to seven hours per day 450 00:31:20,500 --> 00:31:23,400 maximum. So, this this has been a 451 00:31:23,408 --> 00:31:26,600 disappointment because it was too complicated. 452 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,300 So, did you have a plan B for that? 453 00:31:28,300 --> 00:31:31,200 Or did, how did you then sort resolve this? 454 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:35,300 Because that That's a big part of the plan, that's now out the 455 00:31:35,308 --> 00:31:40,000 window. We optimized the ship ads plasma 456 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:48,500 or nice And it has been quite. It has been quite a success and 457 00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:54,300 we anticipated to have a team from Germany from the company. 458 00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:58,900 Driftin noise, which came on board with satellite radar 459 00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:04,500 images and and I stood forecast, okay? 460 00:32:04,900 --> 00:32:09,500 And this data has been the real game changer which are allowing 461 00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:14,500 us to be extremely efficient on the ship movement. 462 00:32:14,900 --> 00:32:19,700 And we work very, very close with the Germans guys and and 463 00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:23,700 the ship ice Pilot. We for one of the first time of 464 00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:28,800 his career, got access to this very accurate data and it's 465 00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:33,700 allowing us to optimize the ship movement, to be, always where we 466 00:32:33,700 --> 00:32:38,100 need to be and how to go to the next point. 467 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,900 And that is something which is quite important to explain. 468 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,100 Nice condition. If you want to go to on point A 469 00:32:44,100 --> 00:32:48,200 to point B, you can have a straight line on Ice. 470 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,400 You have to find a channel between sea ice, which might be 471 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:57,600 quite deep which which is best route to arrive where you need 472 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,300 to go. So it has been extremely, 473 00:33:01,300 --> 00:33:05,700 extremely successful and Ice condition plus. 474 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,400 All this works, which have been in placed over the project 475 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,200 management as the lowing of the Very, very good efficiency. 476 00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:15,600 What a fantastic way to end the podcast. 477 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,900 I want to thank you again for your time and congratulations on 478 00:33:19,908 --> 00:33:22,700 the success of the project. Thank you so much for your time. 479 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:29,500 Thank you so much. Thanks again to Nicole for 480 00:33:29,500 --> 00:33:32,000 joining us and to you for listening to this episode of the 481 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,600 APM podcast. Don't forget to look out for 482 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,300 more episodes in this series or to rate and review us wherever 483 00:33:37,300 --> 00:33:40,600 you get your podcast. You'll find us on Spotify, Apple 484 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,700 podcasts, Google podcasts and more. 485 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,200 We'd welcome you to get in touch with your comments feedback and 486 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:51,600 suggestions by e-mailing us at a p.m. podcast at think publishing 487 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:55,000 .co.uk. This podcast has been brought to 488 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,100 you by APM the charter body for the project profession. 489 00:33:58,500 --> 00:34:00,900 For more information on a p.m. visit, a p.m. 490 00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:02,300 Dot org.uk.