Absolutely. Anyone who thinks it might be
worth it should do an apprenticeship, because in
project management, because it's it's the best way to really
understand it and be able to study it theoretically and see
it in practise as well. I think that's the most valuable
part of it. So this is all new and it's part
of the project, yeah. Welcome to episode three of our
series on the National Trust, an APM corporate partner.
I'm Mermaid Evita. I'm your host.
Today I'm back at Durham Park, a 17th century Mansion, House and
garden near Bath which recently underwent A multimillion #
transformation. If you listen to episode one in
the series, you will remember that I spoke to Mike Hudson,
Head of Strategic Planning, Project and Programme
Management, who gave me an overview of how important
project management and the National Trust partnership with
APM is to the success of the organisation.
I also spoke to Tim Camborne, a senior project manager who
oversaw the transformation programme for Durham Park, which
finished in 2023. In Episode 2, I covered a less
well known part of the National Trust's work in urban areas and
its focus on becoming Carbon Net 0 by 2030, interviewing 2
childhood project professionals Joe, Dimitri and Denon to find
out about their work. I also travelled to Dagenham in
East London to meet Emma King, who's helping to run a community
garden the National Trust has set up there.
So we've heard from those at the top of the organisational
project management tree. But let's hear from those who
are just starting out in their careers.
It's time to meet three project management apprentices who all
started at the National Trust in October 2022 and are nearing the
end of that 18 month apprenticeship programme.
After sitting APM's project management qualification, I'm
going to find out from them what it's like to be a National Trust
project management apprentice in an organisation that puts it at
the heart of what it does. What if they learnt so far?
What projects have they worked on and where might their future
careers take them? First up is Rebecca Corcoran,
who works in the National Trust SW region and is based at Durham
Park and Prior Park in Bath. She studied ancient history and
art history at university and always wanted a job in the arts
heritage. Her work at Dyrham Park was
concentrated on its gardens, in particular the recreation of a
formal parterre. I met her on the terrace to find
out more, so I'm here at Durham Park with Rebecca Corcoran, a
project management apprentice at the National Trust, who was
closely involved in the project in the is it formal gardens?
Yeah, so it's the formal gardens section of the house as opposed
to the Parkland. We just outside this gorgeous
honey coloured mansion that was designed in the Baroque style, I
think in the late 17th century. We're just walking past the
orangery. Which parts of the house is this
that we're walking through? So this is the we're walking
into the formal garden here, OK, And these are not sure the house
was built in bits and pieces. I think this might be a neuro
section of the house with the stables.
So this is a courtyard. Yeah, I think this week we call
this area the stables. And you'll see there's some
evidence of, you know, when there were horses at the
property here on the right. Yeah, Now we come into the
formal garden. OK, we're coming out onto the
terrace, which is how you imagined a formal garden to look
and beautifully kept lawn. Is this the Porter?
I don't, no. So we're going to go on to it
now. So a partier is a formal garden
with enclosed beds and gravel. They were quite popular in the
17th century. So that's what the project is
trying to do, is trying to recreate an element of the
garden. So it's not very literal, but
it's kind of a 17th century inspired part there.
Is there any evidence of what the original party would have
looked like? Yes.
So there's a 1712 Kip engraving, which is one of our primary
sources for the house and it wouldn't have been on the area
as we see it now on the drawing, it's just a depicted AS2 simple
squares of grass and that's what the National Trust did when we
acquired the property in 1950s. We just restored the patches of
grass as depicted on the Kip engraving.
But a different section of the engraving does depict this kind
of part Tear Parterre de Broderie style and to the east
garden which is at the bottom of that hill as we came in.
And so the inspiration has come from that and the Gardens team
designed a style based off of that and.
You want to describe what we're actually looking at.
Yeah, so yeah, in front of us now we have a acanthus leaf
shaped formed from steel very low to the ground, about 150
millimetres off the ground surrounding the perimeter.
We have not yet, but we're going to establish kind of hit low,
low rise head gene around the edges.
Is this what we can see? Here.
Yeah, exactly. Plants, yeah, yeah.
And these will be topiary cones. So once these have become
established, the gardens team will be able to to trim them
into kind of a pyramid shape or a cone.
Shape. Is that what they would have had
at the time? Yeah, I think it was a really
popular type of garden design and it was something that should
have been viewed from above as well.
Ohh so the gardens were designed to be looked at from the house.
So the the exactly what we're looking at, which side of the
house is this and. So this is the W Terrace.
So we're at the West front of the house and and if you see the
first floor here actually gives you a really nice view down and
this is all open to the visitors and they kind of you see it a
lot better from above really. Yeah.
But inside this embroidered pattern it's based the motif is
an acanthus leaf which is a really popular design that's
found on a lot of the embroidery and the textiles around Durham.
And so that was what gave the garden team the inspiration for
the design. And then we worked with the
landscape architect to actually put that into, put that to paper
and a metal fabricator was designed the whole steel
structure which came in and was all bolted together, very nerve
wracking. They lifted from a crane to here
and over the historic balustrade.
Was that one of the biggest challenges of the project it's
actually getting everything into?
Place. Yeah, I think so.
Because if you can see, so Dan, the approach from the Westgate,
this deal was brought in and then lifted on.
And I think even sourcing that was probably the most
challenging thing because it's not something that a metal
fabricator has, really, would really be doing very often.
And so it's very unique, brief and a very unique requirement.
But we were lucky to have someone who was, you know,
really up for the challenge and they're actually quite local,
they're only down the road. So it's quite nice to have that
local storytelling aspect. As well, it feels like.
I mean, I feel it. I feel very lucky to be here
right now before the house is open to visitors, so you can get
a sense of what it must be like to live here.
In the house. More from Rebecca's tour of the
parter later, but join us in the slightly scruffy Behind stairs
rooms at Dyrham Park to talk more about what it means to be a
project management apprentice at the National Trust.
I want to ask you first of all what drew you to working at
National Trust and particularly its Project Management
Apprenticeship programme? Yeah.
So I guess there, before I came to the National Trust, I was
working at another big heritage organisation and that's yeah, I
think so. So I was working at English
Heritage. And so I guess in that sense,
National Trust was always kind of on my radar because they're
kind of the two big heritage organisations in the UK and I
was joined that in a business support.
And as part of that role, I kind of got an introduction to doing
some project support and that really kind of fascinated me.
It really captured my attention. What did you enjoy about it?
I I I think I just liked seeing the progress and and seeing kind
of disparate colleagues from across the country all come
together with the powers of Zoom and things like that.
And to be able to to work on something and for them to be
experts in them, in their field and kind of come together and to
be able to deliver something. So that what is your appetite
for project management? Yeah, I think so because I don't
think I really knew what project management was even before that.
And yeah, I think seeing the the diversity of projects as well.
So it was working on a big project at Stonehenge and seeing
all the inner workings about that and but then also seeing
kind of small smaller scale projects just to replace the
visitor building and kind of yeah, really is that behind the
scene look into how these properties run, which I thought
was really fascinating. OK, thank you.
What does being an apprentice at National Trust actually involve?
You Give us an idea of the support you get and the benefits
it brings to you would be great. Yeah.
So I think one of the good things about being an apprentice
here is I think it's slightly different for everyone and in a
way because you know, everyone is paired up with a kind of
mentor line manager who is an expert in the in their fields
and they're typically project managers.
So I guess your experience is tailored to who you're working
at with and what projects you're working on.
But for me it's it's but like and kind of having the
opportunity to support different projects across the Southwest,
not getting involved but also just shadowing and getting to
see what's going on and. So actually your role as an
apprentice is you're actually doing proper, real work on
projects, but you're also shadowing, yeah?
And then are there other elements of learning and support
that are open to you? Yeah, exactly.
So I do about four days a week either actually working on
project activities or I'm shadowing kind of CPD doing and
extra learning and kind of the heritage field.
But then I always block out one day a week for our kind of
formal learning and that is with a kind of formal training
college who provide us with that and that learning.
So we have a a monthly workshop which you know on a topic around
project management, but then we also have coursework and then we
were preparing for the PMQ exam as well.
So yeah, it's nice to have that balance of work, business as
usual work working on projects but also having that time kind
of carved out in your diary for that learning and I think they
really that's really complimented and.
So yeah, yeah. So you have support from a
mental and also are you you know, do you get together with
the other project management apprentices?
Yeah. And that's something I wasn't
really expecting, but has been a really nice thing as part of it
is just having that kind of community.
I think there's 10 or 11 of us that started in my cohort and
they've been an invaluable source of support.
Some people were already working in the trust and before moving
to the apprenticeship role. So it's nice to have people who
are kind of on the journey with you and and they're who we did
all the workshops with. We did all our learning together
and a lot of us sat our PMQ exam around the same time.
So it's been really nice and I feel like we're all, you know,
interested in staying on in project management.
So it's kind of like with the next generation or something and
which is, which is nice to kind of build that network and
community. Own sourced about the other
projects you're working on at the moment or have worked on in
the past 18 months. So you have Deer and Park, yeah.
I have Deer Park and then I also have a prior park in Bath which
I've done some work on. So what's probably park?
So that is a. Palladian Garden and that has
recently undergone restoring the dams there And so I kind of came
in at the tail end of that when they were you know the dams had
been restored and they were finishing up with the
reinstatement planting and some last minute things.
And I think one of one of my early jobs was to delay could
kind of become overgrown with bull rush this type of Reed.
And and a big thing about Prior Park is the fact that the
Palladian Bridge is being able to be reflected in the the lake,
but that had been lost because of this project work and the
lakes have been drained and the they've been created the perfect
conditions for these you know reads to grow and kind of
overtake the lake completely. They're those huge things.
They're. Absolutely huge.
Yeah. So the project will kind of left
with an issue of like how do we even get rid of these, you know,
like a massive amount of material And we obviously wanted
to do it in a sustainable way as well and we didn't just want to
Chuck them in general ways. Are there any other projects
that you're working at the moment?
Yeah. So I'm actually taking the lead
on a project down in Dorset, which is Hive Beach located next
to a small town called Burton Bradstock.
And and that's been a really great opportunity to kind of
have that experience on on leading, leading A-Team and how
big is your team. It's not very big, 19 and one.
OK. So we there's a project forward
that I set up and reports to them on a monthly basis and and
that's been really helpful and I think they're really encouraging
and supportive as well and they know I'm an apprentice and they
know I'm learning. So it's it's nice to have that
kind of safe space to to make mistakes and to maybe not say
something perfectly. Yeah.
So that site is looking, It hasn't had a lot of investment
in a while, but it's a really amazing outdoor hub and gateway
to the Jurassic Coast. And so we're looking at
improving the visitor infrastructure there, making it
more accessible for visitors there.
We want to add a a changing place facility.
So that's kind of for people with additional needs, it's kind
of one step above a disabled toilet and it's something the
trust is committed to putting into all our properties.
And so, yeah, we're looking at putting that in there and just
making several other kind of improvements that will improve
the visitor experience then. So that's that's amazing and.
So this is the first time you've led on a project.
Yeah, what? Ohh wanted to ask you.
What have been the biggest lessons you've learned about
project management so far, either on the technical side of
things or actually personal skills or qualities you need to
be a good project manager? Yeah.
So I think what was probably the hardest thing when I came in is
I was working on these construction projects to begin
with and. At the National.
Trust. Yeah, at the National Trust,
Yeah. So you know here at Durham and
Prior Park, it was all quite infrastructure focused and and I
guess that was a bit daunting for me because I have no
experience, I don't think I'd ever, ever, ever read like a
blueprint or a a kind of an architect drawing.
Yeah. So I think something I've
learned is you don't have to be an expert in everything and you
just kind of need to be able to bring the right people together
to get what you need. So that that's been the most eye
opening thing for me is that you know those things come with time
and those smaller things. So don't get caught up worried
about the detail and just knowing that you're there to
facilitate and to drive progress and to make a plan and and yeah,
so I'm how important relationship building is for
that and kind of winning support and getting people on your side.
And yeah, it's it's something that I've really learned over
the past 18. Months Really important lessons.
What are the unique challenges or unknown sources of enjoyment
working for projects in the National Trust?
Because it's a pretty unique place.
Yeah, yeah. Like I was saying at prior park,
there's there's always those, you know, nothing is
straightforward, there's always those those access challenges or
you know you're running a visitor business here and you're
and so whenever projects are happening, you need to be so
mindful of that And not only do we need, we want to keep these
places open for people to enjoy, but we also want them to make
them last forever. So sometimes, you know, it's a
balance between those two things is, you know, having these
amazing spaces but also ensuring that you know, we're preserving
them in the right way. And so there's definitely a lot
of unique challenges and anytime you want to do anything to any
sort of building, you know, there's a lot of bureaucracy and
hoops to jump through. And so that all adds time and
adds money and but I think it makes the end result even more
satisfying in a way because you know, you get to the end of it
and they're all there for good reasons.
All these, you know so. A question I wanted to ask you
about Dearham was that I know with your background in kind of
history and art. Yeah, you did art history,
didn't you? Yeah.
So to have access to a place
like this where there is important artworks are, there's
delftware here and how, how, what's that?
What's that feel like to be actually working in a place
where you have access to all these beautiful things?
Yeah. And learning about them, they've
been any surprises or? It feels yeah it definitely
feels surreal to kind of be when you're walking through the and
you see the collection items in the room.
And I think I've learned a lot from the that the volunteers.
So Durham will have kind of room guides in every room and they
are some of the like fountains of knowledge.
They know so much and I've had volunteers point out little
aspects of a picture like fine details and where there's like a
man or if you look really closely, you can see a man
gardening in these huge massive pictures.
And. And I think that's been really
enjoyable, just to be able to meet and talk with people who
are there every day and kind of who make Durham happen and.
I guess the artworks in in situ. Yeah, exactly.
As they were like meant to be enjoyed.
In a way. We're just kind of removed from
the context of the museum and it kind of, you know, it adds to
the room. It's, it creates that
atmosphere. And so I think it's quite a
different experience from seen in a museum and.
Personally, what? Which objects or artworks have
impressed you the most, or that you've loved the most here?
And well, with the one that's probably the most interesting,
we do have like a I'm going to get the terminology wrong, but
there's a King's estate room bed.
So basically a lot of period houses would have had a room
dedicated if to try and entice the king to come and visit.
And we have that that bed that was never used.
I don't think the king ever came, but it's where he would
have stayed. And it's on the ground floor in
the house. And yeah, I find that like a
really interesting part of the story and it it kind of
humanises and the people who used to live here a little bit.
And yeah, I really, I really loved that story.
Yes, and welcome to the. Park the late. 70s We'll rejoin
Rebecca later on to discover more about her work on Durham
Park. But next let's meet Flora Smith,
another apprentice who works at the National Trust Central
office Heelis in Swindon, where she sits in its support and
revenue department. It's the bit that makes income
from the trust, she explains. So that means food and beverage,
shops, holidays, and more importantly for her, car parks.
I began by asking her what it's like to be plugged into her
network of project professionals within the National Trust, with
an open invitation to visit projects at Pico.
Interest anywhere? Influence.
Sounds great. Yeah.
And this is what the Trust is so well.
Everybody I've spoken to in project management in the trust
is so willing to tell you about their journey, what they're
doing, the challenges, the the good times and bad times, and
also just take that time to be interested in your development.
And I found that with every, every single e-mail that I've
fired off, they've always come back and they've been.
Just some of the most lovely people that I've met and so
willing to give up some of their really busy schedule just to
spend some time with me to explain different areas of the
trust and different approaches when it comes to project
management as well and how they kind of came into project
management and the different ways you can come at it.
So when I first started we were I was looking at booking an
events and holidays and that was looking at the website and so it
was very more IT based which a lot of the support and revenue
projects do run alongside it. How did how did you find that?
Did you have any IT experience before that?
No IT experience. So you see kind.
Of it was a jump in the deep end.
And. Yeah.
But it's been really great to get that side of it because
there is just slightly different challenges versus if you're
doing a construction project or a conservation of a like
rewilding A wetland, it's completely separate and
different and there's like slightly different processes
when it comes to it. So it's been really great
getting that exposure and I've been really unique in having
that because none of the other apprentices, apprentices have
experienced that. So it's been really good, but
initially I didn't know very much about it and I I still say
I know surface level IT, but yeah, so I sit more on the
business side. So I sit underneath business
project managers, but it's really interesting to see how
they work with it, project managers and what the
relationship is there. And it's taught me a lot about
sort of how to manage those kind of relationships because it's
sort of equal power. But there's also a lot of
communication and a lot of sorting out roles and
responsibilities in terms of having two people on one project
that are project managers. But it's it's amazing when it
works really, really well and it makes sense that there is two
people because sometimes the IT side is very complex and and it
does take someone who does know a bit more of that side.
And for the business it's good because they connect back in
with the people. So then you've got that sort of
link between IT and people. That's hugely important for a
project to be successful. Can you tell us maybe about one
project that you found particularly rewarding or that
you learned the most from? Yeah, so I'm currently on the
car parks technology replacement project and.
Is this for Cox across the whole?
Across the whole trip so. I can't imagine how many coal
pots. Are there it's like about 230?
Car. Parks.
So in total, but that includes laybys and things like that.
It might even be more. I might have got that completely
wrong, but it it's definitely over 200 technical car parks and
then there's only a certain amount that actually have
machines and things currently at the moment.
So what's the kind of project scope and objectives?
So Ohh scope is replace. The technology is primarily the
biggest thing that we need to do because currently we are quite a
way behind a lot of other car parks.
We don't even have card. Readers.
So you can only pay by. Cash.
And so that's a huge thing and that the machines are failing.
And so that's kind of the basic scope, but also links into the
wider kind of thinking of the trust of looking into our
outdoor spaces and putting a bit more focus and a bit more
attention and care. Because since COVID there's been
a huge rise of people coming to our outdoor spaces because they
realise, wow, there's a National Trust space like in the Lake
District and even the South West Coast.
And there's a huge amount of missed opportunity where we can
get people to engage with us and that we've just not had before.
Because when people think of National Trusts they just think
of old houses basically. But that it's it's so much more.
And even when I first started being an apprentice here, I
didn't realise how complex and how massive it actually really
is. And it is amazing.
It's terrifying, but it is amazing how much the National
Trust actually does cover. Are you mentored at all so you
have a mentor? So how valuable is that been?
It's so valuable. Like I have a I have a mentor
and also my line manager and the project manager I work with.
I can't thank them enough. They have given me so much
support over the last year and a bit with my apprenticeship.
They're constantly checking in on me.
We have regular meetings and it's nice because they also tell
me the problems that they're having with their projects and
things like that. And they ask for my advice.
And I feel comfortable because initially going into it, when
you're with people who've been doing it for so long, it's
really nice that they also respect your opinion too.
Yeah. And they're also seeking for you
to find it for yourself. And I've always had that
encouragement from them. And I'm actually, I'm dyslexic.
So I have a lot of sort of difficulty when it comes to
trying to type up things and I might take a bit longer.
And they've always given me so much grace with it and they've
been there to support me with that.
And and I kept continually asked, what can I do to help you
with that Or if I have struggled, I've never felt like
I couldn't reach out and say please can I have help with
this. And yeah, they're constantly
giving, giving me challenges, but knowing when the challenge
is too much, they they're pushing me in the right
direction basically, but not pushing me off the edge of the
Cliff. It's they.
Yeah. I can't thank them enough for
their support. And they've, yeah, encouraged me
and allowed me to kind of come and even do podcasts here and
also go and visit the other apprentices.
They've said, Yep, straight away, like that's a really good
idea. I'm glad you're taking that
initiative. You, you go with it.
And if it's been my idea, they've been more than happy
enough to support me. And so when you've got that
level of support from lots of different people, does that go
hand in hand with real responsibility working on
projects? You're actually given real work
to do and trusted to do it, but a kind of, I guess, in a safe
environment. Yeah.
So they I will still go and ask for them to check some things
and even though they know that they can trust me and they've
said this to me I still have that little like ohh could you
just check and they're they're more than willing to say yeah
that looks perfectly fine carry on and and yeah my I was really
lucky sort of my project manager and my line manager has given me
work that's specifically mine and I've owned and I've produced
and I've gone out and done sort of the stakeholder comms and
sort of organised my own like little mini project within it.
So with the car parks one I went out and found car parks
solutions. So where people have tried to
overcome challenges in their car park, whether that's sort of
having a park run and they've got to read just how the car
park actually works and maybe change how they sort of run
their car park to allow park runners to come and just park
for that little bit and then go to vandalism.
So someone set up CCTV, Wi-Fi cameras in a particular car park
and just I my aim for that was to just bring a load of case
studies together and contacts for other car parks to then see
and go, ohh, I've got a similar problem and their car park
sounds pretty similar to mine. Maybe I can use that and maybe
that'll just alleviate some of the problems that we're facing.
So at the moment and to sort of go alongside sort of the
replacement technology project that's also happening.
And they gave that to me to sort of own produce and then send out
and distribute. And that was really good because
it did teach me a lot about how to sort of engage with people at
property, setting up meetings and stuff and being sensitive
sort of with information and things like that, because car
parks for a lot of properties are a touchy subject.
Are there any kind of other benefits or opportunities being
on a an apprenticeship programme like this that that you've
really appreciated? I think I've liked the way that
I've learned it's not. How do you mean?
As in, it's been sort of my time to learn and things like that.
It's I think I've managed to gain experience and also do the
qualification and I can apply them which is nice because I can
physically see it rather than sort of when you're just
studying for an exam say if you do an intensive course and
you've got all the theory behind it but you don't have the
experience. And I think that's what's been
great about this apprenticeship and which why I wanted to do it
because I looked at it and I was like that's the way that I want
to learn on the job. I can apply real situations to
things that I'm learning about in the modules and and other
things like that. And yeah, I think that's what
attracted me to sort of apprenticeship rather than just
doing another qualification. Because sure, I could just try
and study project management, but I don't think I would have
ever fully understood it unless I was actually there.
Yeah, that makes sense. And has it sold you to a career
in project management? Is that where your foreseeable
career lies, do you think? I definitely think so.
But I also like, I'm open to anything.
I think it's given me a lot of transferable skills.
I think at the root, project management just gives you that
sort of place to apply yourself. So in any kind of field, there's
so many skills that you pick up that you can just bring to other
places and things. And especially those people
skills, I think they're hugely misunderstood and they're hugely
important to very loads of jobs and especially sort of
management jobs in general. But currently I think I would
like to stay in the trust and I'd like to stay in project
management. Ohh was she the best of luck for
that? Thank you.
Keep my fingers crossed. Yeah, this is my favourite.
Finally, I meet Maddie Hills, who works in the National Trust
Project and Programme Management Office.
After studying Asian Pacific and North Korean studies at
university, I began by asking her why she wanted to work at
the National Trust. So my whole childhood was going
to National Trust properties, which I think a lot of people at
the same yeah. So I've always known about the
trust and always loved the trust.
And when I was had finished uni and was looking into what career
I wanted to pursue, I started looking into internships at 1st
and then I was looking at the trust because when I was at
university I did a lot of volunteering.
So I thought perhaps in my year off I could start looking at
volunteering, just to get a bit of experience.
So I was originally looking at the trust to start volunteering
and then I saw that they had apprenticeship programmes and I
thought it would be perfect because obviously I'd spent five
years at uni but I didn't have any work experience at all.
So I knew that finding a job was going to be incredibly
difficult, but then the apprenticeship programme, it
offered me such a great opportunity to actually enter
the workforce and be able to learn a trade as well, which I
wasn't expecting. So I looked into project
management and it seemed like it fit quite well with my
personality and the sort of the variation of things that you
could be doing. And obviously thinking further
ahead with my career, I could go into so many different things
with a project management qualification.
So these forces are kind of transferable skills.
Or, yes, exactly. Training you would get.
Yeah, yeah. And obviously having already
loved the Trust for so long and my degrees at uni were very much
history and culture based, so it was something that felt like it
fit very well for me. So I'm incredibly lucky that I
applied and I got the position. I mean, you're based in the
central office in the PMO, the project and programme management
office. I guess, um, that must give you
a kind of opportunity to have an overview of the entire trust
work with it, you know, project management.
How do you find that? Is that it's?
Incredible. I think before I started working
with the Trust, I didn't understand the breadth of the
work that is done. And obviously project work is
such a huge way that the Trust delivers its ambitions.
And being in the PMO that we have insight to so many
different types of projects and obviously with our whole purpose
is to support the project community.
So we get to go and visit lots of different projects to sort of
understand better what they're doing and how they work and sort
of the type of support that they need from us.
So we're able to you know get that kind of insight and we've
we also get to do sort of volunteering.
So we sort of take the opportunity to visit different
properties and actually get a bit hands on with the type of
you know context they're working in.
We've done tree planting and fence building on a beach and we
get just such incredible opportunities.
And it's really you don't understand how complex an
organisation like the Trust is from the outside.
And one of the projects that also the main project that I
work on is the Planning and project Platform Modernization
project. That's a mouthful, not me.
So basically it's looking at the implementation of a digital
solution to help project managers do what they do.
And so it's a PPM tool, OK, really.
But we're really focused on how that's going to be embedded and
what the project community need from it because we don't want to
implement something that isn't going to suit the way that they
work. So that's a hugely IT based, but
it's also got that sort of business management side of it
and everything that we do is about the communities that we're
doing it for which is the staff at the National Trust.
What? What's it like coming in as an
apprentice? And when I first started, I was
doing a lot of sort of supporting the other team
members and what they were doing and a lot of observation.
But I quite quickly sort of took on my own work, which.
Was is that encouraged? Yes, yeah, it was really
encouraged. And my team are so supportive
and they've always been really eager to help me learn and to
sort of push me gently to take things on myself And but the the
sort of breadth of the things that I've been able to
experience like I've I've it's only been just over a year and
I'm in such a different place now.
Like I've got so many more skills and experience in
different areas. Do you think that's one of the
advantages of working in the PMO?
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Because we've looked at because
obviously we own a lot of the tools that our project managers
use and that covers you know, more sort of scheduling and sort
of day-to-day running, but also like finance management.
So stuff that I never would have even thought that I need
experience in. But it's been so useful in sort
of my overall understanding of what project management is and
everything that it entails. Is it what you imagined it to
be? No.
What did you imagine project? Management.
I don't think I really had an idea to begin with, yeah,
because I I'd never really even heard of project management as a
career. And obviously thinking that I
was coming into the Trust, then I sort of had this picture in my
head of what I thought the trust was originally.
What? What was that picture?
Which was historic houses, yeah. And I thought, ohh, the projects
must be all to do this, This is historic places.
And then obviously understanding more about the expanse of what
work that involves, I don't think I ever could have
understood. I don't think many people really
appreciate, unless you work for the National Trust, just how
much goes on behind the scenes. Yes, yeah.
It's such an extensive place and it's incredible really to think
that everything that they do on the surface, that's got so much
that has to support it and we, I don't think anyone would realise
how big of an organisation it is, but it needs to be to
deliver what we're trying to deliver.
So yeah, it's so interesting. Because you're on an
apprenticeship programme, there's obviously a structure
and a framework and which, which OPM, you know has laid out.
How beneficial has that been for you to have that structure in
place? What advantages has it brought
you and are you sold on the idea of being a project?
Manager Yes, I am sold. The structure has been
incredibly useful because like you said, I had no experience of
project management at all. So having it broken down so that
I could really understand it sort of step by step and in a
logical process. I think coming into project
management, if I was sort of presented with everything at
once, it would have been way too overwhelming.
But being able to go into it in a really clear, sort of
methodical way and sort of build up that understanding through
the stages and understand it that way has been so much better
and easier for me to actually be able to comprehend what project
management is. And does it give you a clearer
definition? Yeah, definition of a career
path that you can envisage. Yeah, yeah.
And. What are your ambitions for your
future? Career.
That's a good question. Well, I think first and
foremost, staying with the Trust is probably my priority because
I just love the National Trust so much.
But um, project management definitely as well.
I would love to be able to continue project management here
because there's just so many opportunities and if I I could
be doing 1 project on a coastline and then move to doing
something more in a historic house or the opportunities are
really sort of endless. What's it meant to you to get
your project management qualification?
It's been a huge, yeah, it was such a milestone of thinking.
Ohh, wow. I actually do.
I do know project management and I I can do this and.
The good thing? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
To go from not knowing anything to now having a qualification, I
mean it's going to be a huge just step in my career that I
can have that on my CV and say, look, I I do know things.
I have done this for a year now. Can you imagine one day going
for childhood? I think that would be a way off
yet, but that would be an incredible step and several
members of my team are charted Hmm.
And so to see them sort of go through that process has been
great and sort of understand what steps are are open in the
future and it's it's great to see that it's not just sort of 1
qualification and that's it. There are so many steps that you
can take to like improve and grow yourself as a project
manager. So it's it's great to see that.
What do you enjoy most about your apprenticeship or the work
that you've done so far? And I think learning, which I
don't know if that's a good answer or not but yeah,
absolutely. Yeah, I'm, I love learning.
I mean, I did five years of university because I love
learning, but that's been such something that I really enjoy.
And especially being in the PMO, every piece of work that I do,
I'm learning something new about either the Trust or project
management. Especially within the trust
itself. Learning is really valued and
and being an apprentice, it means that I'm always
comfortable asking questions. Yeah, or like, I don't feel like
I'm the only one who doesn't know this.
So because it doesn't matter, because it's so emphasised in
the Trust that everyone has something that they could learn.
This is the harpsichord, and sometimes there's a volunteer.
Playing it thanks Samadi and her parting words about always
having something to learn because her attitude reflects A
voracious appetite for knowledge.
All three apprentices showed and whose enthusiasm for their
careers in project management really shine through.
Now let's go back to where we began this podcast with Rebecca
Corcoran standing on the terrace at Durham Park as she gives her
take on what it means to be an apprentice.
What was your actual involvement with the project?
So what? What were your particular
responsibilities? And yeah, so I came in at an
early stage when we were just starting to talk with the
landscape architect about translating this design idea
that we had into reality. And so I played a big role in
liaising with them and kind of getting the designs right and
the requirements of the house as well.
We're also going to add in a ramp on the either side so that
accessible visitors who come out will be able to come out and
experience the party for themselves.
I would walk around it. So beauty into those kind of
requirements and developing that brief was a big part of my role.
So actually, as an apprentice, you're given proper, responsible
duties here. It's, yeah, yeah.
And I think that's something I really enjoyed is that, you
know, I've been able to had a tangible impact and that I know
that obviously the Gardens team have done so much with sourcing
the plants and doing the actual work.
But I feel it's nice to feel connected and to have known that
some way I've played a part in. It yeah.
So every time you come back here, you can say that.
Exactly. Thought that was my work.
Yeah, because I remember even when we got the quote, or we
were, I was going out to people looking for the quotes to
actually do this deal. And the kind of relief when we
finally found someone who was able to do it and that you know
it, it was logistically gonna gonna work out.
And so, yeah, it feels really nice to have been part of that.
What did you learn first hand about project management from
working on this project? So I guess the big thing that I
learned was that things take time and as you'll see, it's not
totally finished here. We still have a bit to go and
there has been a few delays and things that were a bit out of
our control. And so I think with project
management sometimes there can be that desire to kind of
proceed at pace and do things quite quickly.
But in reality, you know, good things take time.
And I don't think, you know, I think the result will be better
at the end because we've taken that time and really had those
discussions with the house and and with the architect and
letting the metal fabricator have some more time to to, you
know, actually produce it and has been really beneficial.
And I think, yeah, just building that flexibility into your
projects and has been a huge session for me.
And yeah, it just would mean when it's finished, then it will
be, yeah, even greater and gotten even greater results.
It's wonderful what a wonderful project to work on is we're just
on the Gaspara Strade, yeah, overlooking the formal gardens
and these very much a work in progress still or is this
complete? So this yeah this area is as is
this the Sphinx court. I think they there has been
talks about adding a plinth or doing some sort of feature in
the middle but if you're if you go beyond beyond the hedging
there and that was all recently reestablished as part of the
transformation project. And so I think the design idea
for the garden scene was to create a 21st century garden
with flavours of 17th century and you have to to kind of
reestablish that the historic avenues and to do as those
people are doing right now like to go for a walk and kind of
immerse yourself in that nature and it's something that changes
quite seasonally as well. We get a lot of tulips here.
The the, the team plans. I think around now they're
planting tips for for next spring and like the garden kind
of transforms at different times of the year.
Do you come back regularly to work on projects here?
Is your? Is your work done here?
Yeah, I get I I come here for some meetings and to be on site
and honestly it is. It does seem a bit different
every time I come. Yeah, with as the seasons change
Really. Yeah, it's it's quite stunning
really. From reconstructing Palladium
gardens and ornate parterres to improving car parks and
introducing new project management systems, the
apprentices at the National Trust I met at Durham Park
impressed me with their enthusiasm, sense of purpose,
and appetite for their work. This episode I've learned how
Maddie, Rebecca and Flora are part of a cohort of early career
apprentices who are important people within the project
management team at the charity. They're being set up for a
successful career in something they've loved to learn about,
and I wish them all the best of luck and wherever their journeys
take them next. This episode completes our
three-part series that has taken us behind the scenes at APM
corporate partner the National Trust to understand how the
project management puzzle fits together at the charity and how
it's been supported by APM to create a professionalised team
of people whose work is at the heart of how the charity runs
itself. I've loved being given a
backstage pass at historic House during park and meeting a bunch
of people who are buzzing with enthusiasm for their work.
Thanks again to Rebecca, Flora and Maddie and everyone else
I've spoken to over the three episodes and to you for
listening. As ever, we want to hear your
comments, feedback and suggestions at
apmpodcast@thinkpublishing.co.uk.