1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,650 Absolutely. Anyone who thinks it might be 2 00:00:02,660 --> 00:00:06,430 worth it should do an apprenticeship, because in 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,090 project management, because it's it's the best way to really 4 00:00:10,100 --> 00:00:13,920 understand it and be able to study it theoretically and see 5 00:00:13,930 --> 00:00:16,690 it in practise as well. I think that's the most valuable 6 00:00:16,740 --> 00:00:34,300 part of it. So this is all new and it's part 7 00:00:34,310 --> 00:00:36,900 of the project, yeah. Welcome to episode three of our 8 00:00:36,910 --> 00:00:40,320 series on the National Trust, an APM corporate partner. 9 00:00:40,470 --> 00:00:42,080 I'm Mermaid Evita. I'm your host. 10 00:00:42,090 --> 00:00:46,420 Today I'm back at Durham Park, a 17th century Mansion, House and 11 00:00:46,430 --> 00:00:50,000 garden near Bath which recently underwent A multimillion # 12 00:00:50,010 --> 00:00:52,980 transformation. If you listen to episode one in 13 00:00:52,990 --> 00:00:55,800 the series, you will remember that I spoke to Mike Hudson, 14 00:00:55,870 --> 00:00:58,360 Head of Strategic Planning, Project and Programme 15 00:00:58,370 --> 00:01:01,380 Management, who gave me an overview of how important 16 00:01:01,390 --> 00:01:04,099 project management and the National Trust partnership with 17 00:01:04,110 --> 00:01:06,900 APM is to the success of the organisation. 18 00:01:07,310 --> 00:01:10,620 I also spoke to Tim Camborne, a senior project manager who 19 00:01:10,630 --> 00:01:14,220 oversaw the transformation programme for Durham Park, which 20 00:01:14,230 --> 00:01:18,080 finished in 2023. In Episode 2, I covered a less 21 00:01:18,090 --> 00:01:21,160 well known part of the National Trust's work in urban areas and 22 00:01:21,170 --> 00:01:26,050 its focus on becoming Carbon Net 0 by 2030, interviewing 2 23 00:01:26,060 --> 00:01:29,730 childhood project professionals Joe, Dimitri and Denon to find 24 00:01:29,740 --> 00:01:32,690 out about their work. I also travelled to Dagenham in 25 00:01:32,700 --> 00:01:35,990 East London to meet Emma King, who's helping to run a community 26 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,040 garden the National Trust has set up there. 27 00:01:38,850 --> 00:01:41,740 So we've heard from those at the top of the organisational 28 00:01:41,750 --> 00:01:44,740 project management tree. But let's hear from those who 29 00:01:44,750 --> 00:01:46,620 are just starting out in their careers. 30 00:01:47,270 --> 00:01:50,580 It's time to meet three project management apprentices who all 31 00:01:50,590 --> 00:01:54,860 started at the National Trust in October 2022 and are nearing the 32 00:01:54,870 --> 00:01:57,560 end of that 18 month apprenticeship programme. 33 00:01:57,570 --> 00:02:01,280 After sitting APM's project management qualification, I'm 34 00:02:01,290 --> 00:02:04,000 going to find out from them what it's like to be a National Trust 35 00:02:04,010 --> 00:02:07,280 project management apprentice in an organisation that puts it at 36 00:02:07,290 --> 00:02:10,419 the heart of what it does. What if they learnt so far? 37 00:02:10,430 --> 00:02:13,500 What projects have they worked on and where might their future 38 00:02:13,510 --> 00:02:16,820 careers take them? First up is Rebecca Corcoran, 39 00:02:16,830 --> 00:02:20,620 who works in the National Trust SW region and is based at Durham 40 00:02:20,630 --> 00:02:24,230 Park and Prior Park in Bath. She studied ancient history and 41 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,000 art history at university and always wanted a job in the arts 42 00:02:27,010 --> 00:02:29,080 heritage. Her work at Dyrham Park was 43 00:02:29,090 --> 00:02:32,660 concentrated on its gardens, in particular the recreation of a 44 00:02:32,670 --> 00:02:36,120 formal parterre. I met her on the terrace to find 45 00:02:36,130 --> 00:02:40,310 out more, so I'm here at Durham Park with Rebecca Corcoran, a 46 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,390 project management apprentice at the National Trust, who was 47 00:02:43,540 --> 00:02:47,010 closely involved in the project in the is it formal gardens? 48 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:52,950 Yeah, so it's the formal gardens section of the house as opposed 49 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,800 to the Parkland. We just outside this gorgeous 50 00:02:56,810 --> 00:03:02,120 honey coloured mansion that was designed in the Baroque style, I 51 00:03:02,130 --> 00:03:06,230 think in the late 17th century. We're just walking past the 52 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,990 orangery. Which parts of the house is this 53 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,710 that we're walking through? So this is the we're walking 54 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:17,660 into the formal garden here, OK, And these are not sure the house 55 00:03:17,670 --> 00:03:19,750 was built in bits and pieces. I think this might be a neuro 56 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,250 section of the house with the stables. 57 00:03:23,420 --> 00:03:26,380 So this is a courtyard. Yeah, I think this week we call 58 00:03:26,390 --> 00:03:29,910 this area the stables. And you'll see there's some 59 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,210 evidence of, you know, when there were horses at the 60 00:03:32,220 --> 00:03:37,000 property here on the right. Yeah, Now we come into the 61 00:03:37,010 --> 00:03:39,980 formal garden. OK, we're coming out onto the 62 00:03:39,990 --> 00:03:45,000 terrace, which is how you imagined a formal garden to look 63 00:03:45,250 --> 00:03:49,150 and beautifully kept lawn. Is this the Porter? 64 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,020 I don't, no. So we're going to go on to it 65 00:03:51,030 --> 00:03:53,550 now. So a partier is a formal garden 66 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,110 with enclosed beds and gravel. They were quite popular in the 67 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,750 17th century. So that's what the project is 68 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:04,850 trying to do, is trying to recreate an element of the 69 00:04:04,860 --> 00:04:08,150 garden. So it's not very literal, but 70 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:11,760 it's kind of a 17th century inspired part there. 71 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:14,300 Is there any evidence of what the original party would have 72 00:04:14,310 --> 00:04:15,420 looked like? Yes. 73 00:04:15,430 --> 00:04:20,350 So there's a 1712 Kip engraving, which is one of our primary 74 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,580 sources for the house and it wouldn't have been on the area 75 00:04:24,590 --> 00:04:29,380 as we see it now on the drawing, it's just a depicted AS2 simple 76 00:04:29,390 --> 00:04:33,790 squares of grass and that's what the National Trust did when we 77 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,640 acquired the property in 1950s. We just restored the patches of 78 00:04:37,650 --> 00:04:39,840 grass as depicted on the Kip engraving. 79 00:04:40,050 --> 00:04:44,260 But a different section of the engraving does depict this kind 80 00:04:44,270 --> 00:04:47,980 of part Tear Parterre de Broderie style and to the east 81 00:04:47,990 --> 00:04:52,930 garden which is at the bottom of that hill as we came in. 82 00:04:53,020 --> 00:04:57,950 And so the inspiration has come from that and the Gardens team 83 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,650 designed a style based off of that and. 84 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,290 You want to describe what we're actually looking at. 85 00:05:03,300 --> 00:05:08,010 Yeah, so yeah, in front of us now we have a acanthus leaf 86 00:05:08,060 --> 00:05:13,030 shaped formed from steel very low to the ground, about 150 87 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,200 millimetres off the ground surrounding the perimeter. 88 00:05:17,210 --> 00:05:21,100 We have not yet, but we're going to establish kind of hit low, 89 00:05:21,170 --> 00:05:23,220 low rise head gene around the edges. 90 00:05:23,330 --> 00:05:24,740 Is this what we can see? Here. 91 00:05:24,790 --> 00:05:26,860 Yeah, exactly. Plants, yeah, yeah. 92 00:05:26,870 --> 00:05:29,800 And these will be topiary cones. So once these have become 93 00:05:29,810 --> 00:05:32,920 established, the gardens team will be able to to trim them 94 00:05:32,930 --> 00:05:34,770 into kind of a pyramid shape or a cone. 95 00:05:34,780 --> 00:05:36,680 Shape. Is that what they would have had 96 00:05:36,690 --> 00:05:38,920 at the time? Yeah, I think it was a really 97 00:05:38,930 --> 00:05:42,800 popular type of garden design and it was something that should 98 00:05:42,810 --> 00:05:45,120 have been viewed from above as well. 99 00:05:45,170 --> 00:05:47,930 Ohh so the gardens were designed to be looked at from the house. 100 00:05:47,940 --> 00:05:51,740 So the the exactly what we're looking at, which side of the 101 00:05:51,750 --> 00:05:55,350 house is this and. So this is the W Terrace. 102 00:05:55,470 --> 00:05:59,660 So we're at the West front of the house and and if you see the 103 00:05:59,670 --> 00:06:03,000 first floor here actually gives you a really nice view down and 104 00:06:03,010 --> 00:06:05,640 this is all open to the visitors and they kind of you see it a 105 00:06:05,650 --> 00:06:07,730 lot better from above really. Yeah. 106 00:06:07,770 --> 00:06:12,800 But inside this embroidered pattern it's based the motif is 107 00:06:12,810 --> 00:06:15,690 an acanthus leaf which is a really popular design that's 108 00:06:15,700 --> 00:06:19,570 found on a lot of the embroidery and the textiles around Durham. 109 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:21,830 And so that was what gave the garden team the inspiration for 110 00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:23,580 the design. And then we worked with the 111 00:06:23,590 --> 00:06:27,890 landscape architect to actually put that into, put that to paper 112 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,430 and a metal fabricator was designed the whole steel 113 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:35,750 structure which came in and was all bolted together, very nerve 114 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,570 wracking. They lifted from a crane to here 115 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,430 and over the historic balustrade. 116 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,370 Was that one of the biggest challenges of the project it's 117 00:06:43,380 --> 00:06:44,470 actually getting everything into? 118 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:45,630 Place. Yeah, I think so. 119 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:49,230 Because if you can see, so Dan, the approach from the Westgate, 120 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,410 this deal was brought in and then lifted on. 121 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,650 And I think even sourcing that was probably the most 122 00:06:54,660 --> 00:06:56,730 challenging thing because it's not something that a metal 123 00:06:56,740 --> 00:06:59,850 fabricator has, really, would really be doing very often. 124 00:06:59,860 --> 00:07:03,400 And so it's very unique, brief and a very unique requirement. 125 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,270 But we were lucky to have someone who was, you know, 126 00:07:06,280 --> 00:07:09,110 really up for the challenge and they're actually quite local, 127 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,130 they're only down the road. So it's quite nice to have that 128 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,450 local storytelling aspect. As well, it feels like. 129 00:07:13,490 --> 00:07:16,270 I mean, I feel it. I feel very lucky to be here 130 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,240 right now before the house is open to visitors, so you can get 131 00:07:19,250 --> 00:07:23,560 a sense of what it must be like to live here. 132 00:07:23,610 --> 00:07:28,240 In the house. More from Rebecca's tour of the 133 00:07:28,250 --> 00:07:32,680 parter later, but join us in the slightly scruffy Behind stairs 134 00:07:32,690 --> 00:07:36,220 rooms at Dyrham Park to talk more about what it means to be a 135 00:07:36,230 --> 00:07:38,960 project management apprentice at the National Trust. 136 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,970 I want to ask you first of all what drew you to working at 137 00:07:44,980 --> 00:07:47,830 National Trust and particularly its Project Management 138 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,250 Apprenticeship programme? Yeah. 139 00:07:50,260 --> 00:07:53,130 So I guess there, before I came to the National Trust, I was 140 00:07:53,140 --> 00:07:57,420 working at another big heritage organisation and that's yeah, I 141 00:07:57,430 --> 00:07:59,490 think so. So I was working at English 142 00:07:59,500 --> 00:08:02,130 Heritage. And so I guess in that sense, 143 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,100 National Trust was always kind of on my radar because they're 144 00:08:05,110 --> 00:08:09,150 kind of the two big heritage organisations in the UK and I 145 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,050 was joined that in a business support. 146 00:08:11,650 --> 00:08:14,610 And as part of that role, I kind of got an introduction to doing 147 00:08:14,620 --> 00:08:18,140 some project support and that really kind of fascinated me. 148 00:08:18,150 --> 00:08:21,450 It really captured my attention. What did you enjoy about it? 149 00:08:21,890 --> 00:08:25,920 I I I think I just liked seeing the progress and and seeing kind 150 00:08:25,930 --> 00:08:28,560 of disparate colleagues from across the country all come 151 00:08:28,570 --> 00:08:31,200 together with the powers of Zoom and things like that. 152 00:08:31,210 --> 00:08:34,380 And to be able to to work on something and for them to be 153 00:08:34,390 --> 00:08:36,980 experts in them, in their field and kind of come together and to 154 00:08:36,990 --> 00:08:39,740 be able to deliver something. So that what is your appetite 155 00:08:39,750 --> 00:08:42,450 for project management? Yeah, I think so because I don't 156 00:08:42,460 --> 00:08:46,530 think I really knew what project management was even before that. 157 00:08:46,590 --> 00:08:51,230 And yeah, I think seeing the the diversity of projects as well. 158 00:08:51,300 --> 00:08:54,750 So it was working on a big project at Stonehenge and seeing 159 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,850 all the inner workings about that and but then also seeing 160 00:08:57,940 --> 00:09:01,360 kind of small smaller scale projects just to replace the 161 00:09:01,370 --> 00:09:04,510 visitor building and kind of yeah, really is that behind the 162 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,050 scene look into how these properties run, which I thought 163 00:09:08,060 --> 00:09:10,290 was really fascinating. OK, thank you. 164 00:09:10,420 --> 00:09:14,600 What does being an apprentice at National Trust actually involve? 165 00:09:14,610 --> 00:09:18,720 You Give us an idea of the support you get and the benefits 166 00:09:18,730 --> 00:09:21,390 it brings to you would be great. Yeah. 167 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,130 So I think one of the good things about being an apprentice 168 00:09:24,140 --> 00:09:26,970 here is I think it's slightly different for everyone and in a 169 00:09:26,980 --> 00:09:30,650 way because you know, everyone is paired up with a kind of 170 00:09:30,660 --> 00:09:34,750 mentor line manager who is an expert in the in their fields 171 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:36,670 and they're typically project managers. 172 00:09:36,730 --> 00:09:39,330 So I guess your experience is tailored to who you're working 173 00:09:39,340 --> 00:09:41,830 at with and what projects you're working on. 174 00:09:41,940 --> 00:09:45,460 But for me it's it's but like and kind of having the 175 00:09:45,470 --> 00:09:49,010 opportunity to support different projects across the Southwest, 176 00:09:49,340 --> 00:09:52,830 not getting involved but also just shadowing and getting to 177 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,940 see what's going on and. So actually your role as an 178 00:09:56,950 --> 00:10:00,330 apprentice is you're actually doing proper, real work on 179 00:10:00,340 --> 00:10:02,450 projects, but you're also shadowing, yeah? 180 00:10:02,460 --> 00:10:04,930 And then are there other elements of learning and support 181 00:10:04,940 --> 00:10:06,660 that are open to you? Yeah, exactly. 182 00:10:06,670 --> 00:10:10,250 So I do about four days a week either actually working on 183 00:10:10,260 --> 00:10:14,480 project activities or I'm shadowing kind of CPD doing and 184 00:10:14,490 --> 00:10:18,030 extra learning and kind of the heritage field. 185 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:21,360 But then I always block out one day a week for our kind of 186 00:10:21,430 --> 00:10:25,780 formal learning and that is with a kind of formal training 187 00:10:25,790 --> 00:10:29,460 college who provide us with that and that learning. 188 00:10:29,470 --> 00:10:33,760 So we have a a monthly workshop which you know on a topic around 189 00:10:33,770 --> 00:10:38,180 project management, but then we also have coursework and then we 190 00:10:38,190 --> 00:10:40,740 were preparing for the PMQ exam as well. 191 00:10:40,750 --> 00:10:45,440 So yeah, it's nice to have that balance of work, business as 192 00:10:45,450 --> 00:10:48,490 usual work working on projects but also having that time kind 193 00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:51,890 of carved out in your diary for that learning and I think they 194 00:10:51,900 --> 00:10:53,990 really that's really complimented and. 195 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:57,570 So yeah, yeah. So you have support from a 196 00:10:57,580 --> 00:11:01,660 mental and also are you you know, do you get together with 197 00:11:01,670 --> 00:11:03,930 the other project management apprentices? 198 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,040 Yeah. And that's something I wasn't 199 00:11:06,050 --> 00:11:09,410 really expecting, but has been a really nice thing as part of it 200 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:11,930 is just having that kind of community. 201 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,270 I think there's 10 or 11 of us that started in my cohort and 202 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,770 they've been an invaluable source of support. 203 00:11:19,060 --> 00:11:22,950 Some people were already working in the trust and before moving 204 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,600 to the apprenticeship role. So it's nice to have people who 205 00:11:25,610 --> 00:11:29,170 are kind of on the journey with you and and they're who we did 206 00:11:29,180 --> 00:11:31,610 all the workshops with. We did all our learning together 207 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:35,170 and a lot of us sat our PMQ exam around the same time. 208 00:11:35,220 --> 00:11:38,330 So it's been really nice and I feel like we're all, you know, 209 00:11:38,380 --> 00:11:40,190 interested in staying on in project management. 210 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,410 So it's kind of like with the next generation or something and 211 00:11:43,420 --> 00:11:45,590 which is, which is nice to kind of build that network and 212 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,640 community. Own sourced about the other 213 00:11:47,650 --> 00:11:50,970 projects you're working on at the moment or have worked on in 214 00:11:50,980 --> 00:11:53,380 the past 18 months. So you have Deer and Park, yeah. 215 00:11:53,390 --> 00:11:57,340 I have Deer Park and then I also have a prior park in Bath which 216 00:11:57,450 --> 00:12:00,440 I've done some work on. So what's probably park? 217 00:12:00,490 --> 00:12:04,160 So that is a. Palladian Garden and that has 218 00:12:04,170 --> 00:12:10,550 recently undergone restoring the dams there And so I kind of came 219 00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:13,020 in at the tail end of that when they were you know the dams had 220 00:12:13,030 --> 00:12:15,480 been restored and they were finishing up with the 221 00:12:15,490 --> 00:12:18,580 reinstatement planting and some last minute things. 222 00:12:18,780 --> 00:12:22,920 And I think one of one of my early jobs was to delay could 223 00:12:22,930 --> 00:12:26,270 kind of become overgrown with bull rush this type of Reed. 224 00:12:26,340 --> 00:12:29,530 And and a big thing about Prior Park is the fact that the 225 00:12:29,540 --> 00:12:33,070 Palladian Bridge is being able to be reflected in the the lake, 226 00:12:33,380 --> 00:12:36,450 but that had been lost because of this project work and the 227 00:12:36,460 --> 00:12:40,920 lakes have been drained and the they've been created the perfect 228 00:12:40,930 --> 00:12:43,610 conditions for these you know reads to grow and kind of 229 00:12:43,660 --> 00:12:46,150 overtake the lake completely. They're those huge things. 230 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:47,360 They're. Absolutely huge. 231 00:12:47,370 --> 00:12:49,550 Yeah. So the project will kind of left 232 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:53,600 with an issue of like how do we even get rid of these, you know, 233 00:12:53,610 --> 00:12:56,700 like a massive amount of material And we obviously wanted 234 00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:59,900 to do it in a sustainable way as well and we didn't just want to 235 00:12:59,910 --> 00:13:02,550 Chuck them in general ways. Are there any other projects 236 00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:04,080 that you're working at the moment? 237 00:13:04,250 --> 00:13:07,280 Yeah. So I'm actually taking the lead 238 00:13:07,290 --> 00:13:11,880 on a project down in Dorset, which is Hive Beach located next 239 00:13:11,890 --> 00:13:13,740 to a small town called Burton Bradstock. 240 00:13:13,750 --> 00:13:17,220 And and that's been a really great opportunity to kind of 241 00:13:17,270 --> 00:13:21,650 have that experience on on leading, leading A-Team and how 242 00:13:21,660 --> 00:13:26,760 big is your team. It's not very big, 19 and one. 243 00:13:26,770 --> 00:13:29,680 OK. So we there's a project forward 244 00:13:29,690 --> 00:13:32,990 that I set up and reports to them on a monthly basis and and 245 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,100 that's been really helpful and I think they're really encouraging 246 00:13:36,110 --> 00:13:39,330 and supportive as well and they know I'm an apprentice and they 247 00:13:39,340 --> 00:13:42,460 know I'm learning. So it's it's nice to have that 248 00:13:42,470 --> 00:13:46,020 kind of safe space to to make mistakes and to maybe not say 249 00:13:46,030 --> 00:13:48,140 something perfectly. Yeah. 250 00:13:48,150 --> 00:13:50,880 So that site is looking, It hasn't had a lot of investment 251 00:13:50,890 --> 00:13:54,680 in a while, but it's a really amazing outdoor hub and gateway 252 00:13:54,690 --> 00:13:57,250 to the Jurassic Coast. And so we're looking at 253 00:13:57,260 --> 00:13:59,650 improving the visitor infrastructure there, making it 254 00:13:59,660 --> 00:14:01,350 more accessible for visitors there. 255 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,850 We want to add a a changing place facility. 256 00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:06,350 So that's kind of for people with additional needs, it's kind 257 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,480 of one step above a disabled toilet and it's something the 258 00:14:09,490 --> 00:14:11,900 trust is committed to putting into all our properties. 259 00:14:11,910 --> 00:14:15,010 And so, yeah, we're looking at putting that in there and just 260 00:14:15,020 --> 00:14:17,740 making several other kind of improvements that will improve 261 00:14:17,750 --> 00:14:22,150 the visitor experience then. So that's that's amazing and. 262 00:14:22,190 --> 00:14:24,430 So this is the first time you've led on a project. 263 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,680 Yeah, what? Ohh wanted to ask you. 264 00:14:27,690 --> 00:14:30,640 What have been the biggest lessons you've learned about 265 00:14:30,650 --> 00:14:35,450 project management so far, either on the technical side of 266 00:14:35,460 --> 00:14:38,520 things or actually personal skills or qualities you need to 267 00:14:38,530 --> 00:14:40,930 be a good project manager? Yeah. 268 00:14:40,940 --> 00:14:46,020 So I think what was probably the hardest thing when I came in is 269 00:14:46,070 --> 00:14:48,120 I was working on these construction projects to begin 270 00:14:48,130 --> 00:14:49,860 with and. At the National. 271 00:14:49,870 --> 00:14:51,490 Trust. Yeah, at the National Trust, 272 00:14:51,500 --> 00:14:53,500 Yeah. So you know here at Durham and 273 00:14:53,590 --> 00:14:57,640 Prior Park, it was all quite infrastructure focused and and I 274 00:14:57,650 --> 00:14:59,760 guess that was a bit daunting for me because I have no 275 00:14:59,770 --> 00:15:03,040 experience, I don't think I'd ever, ever, ever read like a 276 00:15:03,050 --> 00:15:06,900 blueprint or a a kind of an architect drawing. 277 00:15:06,910 --> 00:15:09,380 Yeah. So I think something I've 278 00:15:09,390 --> 00:15:13,050 learned is you don't have to be an expert in everything and you 279 00:15:13,060 --> 00:15:16,910 just kind of need to be able to bring the right people together 280 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,900 to get what you need. So that that's been the most eye 281 00:15:20,910 --> 00:15:24,130 opening thing for me is that you know those things come with time 282 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,060 and those smaller things. So don't get caught up worried 283 00:15:27,070 --> 00:15:30,190 about the detail and just knowing that you're there to 284 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:35,710 facilitate and to drive progress and to make a plan and and yeah, 285 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,290 so I'm how important relationship building is for 286 00:15:38,300 --> 00:15:41,810 that and kind of winning support and getting people on your side. 287 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,530 And yeah, it's it's something that I've really learned over 288 00:15:45,540 --> 00:15:48,330 the past 18. Months Really important lessons. 289 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:54,090 What are the unique challenges or unknown sources of enjoyment 290 00:15:54,100 --> 00:15:56,590 working for projects in the National Trust? 291 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,810 Because it's a pretty unique place. 292 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:01,010 Yeah, yeah. Like I was saying at prior park, 293 00:16:01,020 --> 00:16:03,520 there's there's always those, you know, nothing is 294 00:16:03,530 --> 00:16:08,270 straightforward, there's always those those access challenges or 295 00:16:08,340 --> 00:16:11,710 you know you're running a visitor business here and you're 296 00:16:11,780 --> 00:16:14,050 and so whenever projects are happening, you need to be so 297 00:16:14,060 --> 00:16:17,630 mindful of that And not only do we need, we want to keep these 298 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,340 places open for people to enjoy, but we also want them to make 299 00:16:21,350 --> 00:16:23,890 them last forever. So sometimes, you know, it's a 300 00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:27,350 balance between those two things is, you know, having these 301 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,060 amazing spaces but also ensuring that you know, we're preserving 302 00:16:31,070 --> 00:16:33,960 them in the right way. And so there's definitely a lot 303 00:16:33,970 --> 00:16:37,250 of unique challenges and anytime you want to do anything to any 304 00:16:37,260 --> 00:16:40,110 sort of building, you know, there's a lot of bureaucracy and 305 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,210 hoops to jump through. And so that all adds time and 306 00:16:43,220 --> 00:16:48,250 adds money and but I think it makes the end result even more 307 00:16:48,260 --> 00:16:51,030 satisfying in a way because you know, you get to the end of it 308 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,110 and they're all there for good reasons. 309 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,660 All these, you know so. A question I wanted to ask you 310 00:16:56,670 --> 00:17:02,300 about Dearham was that I know with your background in kind of 311 00:17:02,310 --> 00:17:06,660 history and art. Yeah, you did art history, 312 00:17:06,670 --> 00:17:07,420 didn't you? Yeah. 313 00:17:07,430 --> 00:17:11,319 Yeah. So to have access to a place 314 00:17:11,329 --> 00:17:13,960 like this where there is important artworks are, there's 315 00:17:13,970 --> 00:17:18,319 delftware here and how, how, what's that? 316 00:17:18,329 --> 00:17:21,140 What's that feel like to be actually working in a place 317 00:17:21,150 --> 00:17:25,440 where you have access to all these beautiful things? 318 00:17:25,510 --> 00:17:27,010 Yeah. And learning about them, they've 319 00:17:27,020 --> 00:17:30,700 been any surprises or? It feels yeah it definitely 320 00:17:30,710 --> 00:17:34,920 feels surreal to kind of be when you're walking through the and 321 00:17:34,930 --> 00:17:36,660 you see the collection items in the room. 322 00:17:36,730 --> 00:17:40,640 And I think I've learned a lot from the that the volunteers. 323 00:17:40,650 --> 00:17:43,850 So Durham will have kind of room guides in every room and they 324 00:17:43,860 --> 00:17:45,480 are some of the like fountains of knowledge. 325 00:17:45,490 --> 00:17:49,660 They know so much and I've had volunteers point out little 326 00:17:49,670 --> 00:17:54,040 aspects of a picture like fine details and where there's like a 327 00:17:54,050 --> 00:17:56,810 man or if you look really closely, you can see a man 328 00:17:56,820 --> 00:18:00,690 gardening in these huge massive pictures. 329 00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:02,600 And. And I think that's been really 330 00:18:02,610 --> 00:18:05,380 enjoyable, just to be able to meet and talk with people who 331 00:18:05,390 --> 00:18:08,660 are there every day and kind of who make Durham happen and. 332 00:18:08,700 --> 00:18:12,870 I guess the artworks in in situ. Yeah, exactly. 333 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,090 As they were like meant to be enjoyed. 334 00:18:15,100 --> 00:18:16,560 In a way. We're just kind of removed from 335 00:18:16,570 --> 00:18:20,250 the context of the museum and it kind of, you know, it adds to 336 00:18:20,260 --> 00:18:22,250 the room. It's, it creates that 337 00:18:22,260 --> 00:18:24,280 atmosphere. And so I think it's quite a 338 00:18:24,290 --> 00:18:26,960 different experience from seen in a museum and. 339 00:18:26,970 --> 00:18:29,420 Personally, what? Which objects or artworks have 340 00:18:29,430 --> 00:18:32,940 impressed you the most, or that you've loved the most here? 341 00:18:33,210 --> 00:18:36,130 And well, with the one that's probably the most interesting, 342 00:18:36,140 --> 00:18:39,330 we do have like a I'm going to get the terminology wrong, but 343 00:18:39,340 --> 00:18:42,040 there's a King's estate room bed. 344 00:18:42,050 --> 00:18:46,040 So basically a lot of period houses would have had a room 345 00:18:46,050 --> 00:18:50,140 dedicated if to try and entice the king to come and visit. 346 00:18:50,210 --> 00:18:53,250 And we have that that bed that was never used. 347 00:18:53,260 --> 00:18:55,880 I don't think the king ever came, but it's where he would 348 00:18:55,890 --> 00:18:57,770 have stayed. And it's on the ground floor in 349 00:18:57,780 --> 00:19:00,310 the house. And yeah, I find that like a 350 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,330 really interesting part of the story and it it kind of 351 00:19:02,340 --> 00:19:05,610 humanises and the people who used to live here a little bit. 352 00:19:05,670 --> 00:19:08,190 And yeah, I really, I really loved that story. 353 00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:14,570 Yes, and welcome to the. Park the late. 70s We'll rejoin 354 00:19:14,580 --> 00:19:17,490 Rebecca later on to discover more about her work on Durham 355 00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:19,970 Park. But next let's meet Flora Smith, 356 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,790 another apprentice who works at the National Trust Central 357 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,650 office Heelis in Swindon, where she sits in its support and 358 00:19:26,660 --> 00:19:30,050 revenue department. It's the bit that makes income 359 00:19:30,060 --> 00:19:33,150 from the trust, she explains. So that means food and beverage, 360 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,130 shops, holidays, and more importantly for her, car parks. 361 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,510 I began by asking her what it's like to be plugged into her 362 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,020 network of project professionals within the National Trust, with 363 00:19:44,030 --> 00:19:46,620 an open invitation to visit projects at Pico. 364 00:19:46,630 --> 00:19:51,310 Interest anywhere? Influence. 365 00:19:52,220 --> 00:19:53,820 Sounds great. Yeah. 366 00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:56,750 And this is what the Trust is so well. 367 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,430 Everybody I've spoken to in project management in the trust 368 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,810 is so willing to tell you about their journey, what they're 369 00:20:04,820 --> 00:20:09,470 doing, the challenges, the the good times and bad times, and 370 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:13,630 also just take that time to be interested in your development. 371 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,610 And I found that with every, every single e-mail that I've 372 00:20:17,620 --> 00:20:20,390 fired off, they've always come back and they've been. 373 00:20:20,570 --> 00:20:24,340 Just some of the most lovely people that I've met and so 374 00:20:24,410 --> 00:20:27,680 willing to give up some of their really busy schedule just to 375 00:20:27,690 --> 00:20:31,460 spend some time with me to explain different areas of the 376 00:20:31,470 --> 00:20:35,820 trust and different approaches when it comes to project 377 00:20:35,830 --> 00:20:40,260 management as well and how they kind of came into project 378 00:20:40,270 --> 00:20:42,900 management and the different ways you can come at it. 379 00:20:43,270 --> 00:20:47,100 So when I first started we were I was looking at booking an 380 00:20:47,110 --> 00:20:52,890 events and holidays and that was looking at the website and so it 381 00:20:52,900 --> 00:20:58,810 was very more IT based which a lot of the support and revenue 382 00:20:58,820 --> 00:21:02,990 projects do run alongside it. How did how did you find that? 383 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,830 Did you have any IT experience before that? 384 00:21:05,900 --> 00:21:08,790 No IT experience. So you see kind. 385 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,890 Of it was a jump in the deep end. 386 00:21:10,900 --> 00:21:11,290 And. Yeah. 387 00:21:11,300 --> 00:21:15,810 But it's been really great to get that side of it because 388 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,600 there is just slightly different challenges versus if you're 389 00:21:19,610 --> 00:21:24,740 doing a construction project or a conservation of a like 390 00:21:24,790 --> 00:21:28,520 rewilding A wetland, it's completely separate and 391 00:21:28,530 --> 00:21:31,020 different and there's like slightly different processes 392 00:21:31,030 --> 00:21:33,840 when it comes to it. So it's been really great 393 00:21:33,850 --> 00:21:37,220 getting that exposure and I've been really unique in having 394 00:21:37,230 --> 00:21:41,350 that because none of the other apprentices, apprentices have 395 00:21:41,410 --> 00:21:45,520 experienced that. So it's been really good, but 396 00:21:45,530 --> 00:21:49,600 initially I didn't know very much about it and I I still say 397 00:21:49,610 --> 00:21:56,970 I know surface level IT, but yeah, so I sit more on the 398 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,970 business side. So I sit underneath business 399 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,610 project managers, but it's really interesting to see how 400 00:22:02,620 --> 00:22:05,640 they work with it, project managers and what the 401 00:22:05,650 --> 00:22:09,250 relationship is there. And it's taught me a lot about 402 00:22:09,260 --> 00:22:13,330 sort of how to manage those kind of relationships because it's 403 00:22:13,340 --> 00:22:16,270 sort of equal power. But there's also a lot of 404 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,530 communication and a lot of sorting out roles and 405 00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:23,040 responsibilities in terms of having two people on one project 406 00:22:23,050 --> 00:22:27,280 that are project managers. But it's it's amazing when it 407 00:22:27,290 --> 00:22:30,720 works really, really well and it makes sense that there is two 408 00:22:30,730 --> 00:22:37,560 people because sometimes the IT side is very complex and and it 409 00:22:37,570 --> 00:22:41,480 does take someone who does know a bit more of that side. 410 00:22:41,550 --> 00:22:45,000 And for the business it's good because they connect back in 411 00:22:45,010 --> 00:22:47,100 with the people. So then you've got that sort of 412 00:22:47,110 --> 00:22:52,260 link between IT and people. That's hugely important for a 413 00:22:52,270 --> 00:22:57,080 project to be successful. Can you tell us maybe about one 414 00:22:57,090 --> 00:22:59,200 project that you found particularly rewarding or that 415 00:22:59,210 --> 00:23:03,160 you learned the most from? Yeah, so I'm currently on the 416 00:23:03,210 --> 00:23:07,460 car parks technology replacement project and. 417 00:23:07,470 --> 00:23:09,200 Is this for Cox across the whole? 418 00:23:09,210 --> 00:23:11,960 Across the whole trip so. I can't imagine how many coal 419 00:23:11,970 --> 00:23:16,200 pots. Are there it's like about 230? 420 00:23:16,210 --> 00:23:17,140 Car. Parks. 421 00:23:17,190 --> 00:23:20,300 So in total, but that includes laybys and things like that. 422 00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:23,080 It might even be more. I might have got that completely 423 00:23:23,130 --> 00:23:28,300 wrong, but it it's definitely over 200 technical car parks and 424 00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:30,680 then there's only a certain amount that actually have 425 00:23:30,690 --> 00:23:33,100 machines and things currently at the moment. 426 00:23:33,150 --> 00:23:36,000 So what's the kind of project scope and objectives? 427 00:23:36,330 --> 00:23:44,690 So Ohh scope is replace. The technology is primarily the 428 00:23:44,740 --> 00:23:49,610 biggest thing that we need to do because currently we are quite a 429 00:23:49,620 --> 00:23:51,590 way behind a lot of other car parks. 430 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,380 We don't even have card. Readers. 431 00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:56,970 So you can only pay by. Cash. 432 00:23:57,140 --> 00:24:01,590 And so that's a huge thing and that the machines are failing. 433 00:24:01,900 --> 00:24:05,340 And so that's kind of the basic scope, but also links into the 434 00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:09,210 wider kind of thinking of the trust of looking into our 435 00:24:09,220 --> 00:24:12,480 outdoor spaces and putting a bit more focus and a bit more 436 00:24:12,490 --> 00:24:15,580 attention and care. Because since COVID there's been 437 00:24:15,590 --> 00:24:19,560 a huge rise of people coming to our outdoor spaces because they 438 00:24:19,570 --> 00:24:22,570 realise, wow, there's a National Trust space like in the Lake 439 00:24:22,580 --> 00:24:25,760 District and even the South West Coast. 440 00:24:25,990 --> 00:24:30,760 And there's a huge amount of missed opportunity where we can 441 00:24:30,770 --> 00:24:36,300 get people to engage with us and that we've just not had before. 442 00:24:36,310 --> 00:24:38,840 Because when people think of National Trusts they just think 443 00:24:38,850 --> 00:24:42,620 of old houses basically. But that it's it's so much more. 444 00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:46,220 And even when I first started being an apprentice here, I 445 00:24:46,230 --> 00:24:49,920 didn't realise how complex and how massive it actually really 446 00:24:49,930 --> 00:24:52,220 is. And it is amazing. 447 00:24:52,230 --> 00:24:55,460 It's terrifying, but it is amazing how much the National 448 00:24:55,470 --> 00:24:59,160 Trust actually does cover. Are you mentored at all so you 449 00:24:59,170 --> 00:25:02,980 have a mentor? So how valuable is that been? 450 00:25:04,350 --> 00:25:07,890 It's so valuable. Like I have a I have a mentor 451 00:25:07,900 --> 00:25:11,470 and also my line manager and the project manager I work with. 452 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,630 I can't thank them enough. They have given me so much 453 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:20,350 support over the last year and a bit with my apprenticeship. 454 00:25:20,420 --> 00:25:22,830 They're constantly checking in on me. 455 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:27,450 We have regular meetings and it's nice because they also tell 456 00:25:27,460 --> 00:25:30,990 me the problems that they're having with their projects and 457 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,000 things like that. And they ask for my advice. 458 00:25:33,010 --> 00:25:35,600 And I feel comfortable because initially going into it, when 459 00:25:35,610 --> 00:25:39,040 you're with people who've been doing it for so long, it's 460 00:25:39,050 --> 00:25:41,920 really nice that they also respect your opinion too. 461 00:25:41,930 --> 00:25:44,380 Yeah. And they're also seeking for you 462 00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:47,420 to find it for yourself. And I've always had that 463 00:25:47,430 --> 00:25:52,240 encouragement from them. And I'm actually, I'm dyslexic. 464 00:25:52,250 --> 00:25:56,540 So I have a lot of sort of difficulty when it comes to 465 00:25:56,910 --> 00:26:00,300 trying to type up things and I might take a bit longer. 466 00:26:00,310 --> 00:26:04,120 And they've always given me so much grace with it and they've 467 00:26:04,170 --> 00:26:06,320 been there to support me with that. 468 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:11,070 And and I kept continually asked, what can I do to help you 469 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,450 with that Or if I have struggled, I've never felt like 470 00:26:14,460 --> 00:26:18,170 I couldn't reach out and say please can I have help with 471 00:26:18,180 --> 00:26:20,470 this. And yeah, they're constantly 472 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,890 giving, giving me challenges, but knowing when the challenge 473 00:26:24,900 --> 00:26:27,820 is too much, they they're pushing me in the right 474 00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:31,370 direction basically, but not pushing me off the edge of the 475 00:26:31,380 --> 00:26:33,790 Cliff. It's they. 476 00:26:33,850 --> 00:26:36,430 Yeah. I can't thank them enough for 477 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,160 their support. And they've, yeah, encouraged me 478 00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:44,680 and allowed me to kind of come and even do podcasts here and 479 00:26:44,690 --> 00:26:47,440 also go and visit the other apprentices. 480 00:26:47,450 --> 00:26:50,480 They've said, Yep, straight away, like that's a really good 481 00:26:50,490 --> 00:26:52,250 idea. I'm glad you're taking that 482 00:26:52,260 --> 00:26:54,800 initiative. You, you go with it. 483 00:26:54,810 --> 00:26:57,550 And if it's been my idea, they've been more than happy 484 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,000 enough to support me. And so when you've got that 485 00:27:00,010 --> 00:27:03,440 level of support from lots of different people, does that go 486 00:27:03,450 --> 00:27:07,370 hand in hand with real responsibility working on 487 00:27:07,380 --> 00:27:11,330 projects? You're actually given real work 488 00:27:11,340 --> 00:27:14,850 to do and trusted to do it, but a kind of, I guess, in a safe 489 00:27:14,860 --> 00:27:16,450 environment. Yeah. 490 00:27:16,460 --> 00:27:21,050 So they I will still go and ask for them to check some things 491 00:27:21,060 --> 00:27:23,460 and even though they know that they can trust me and they've 492 00:27:23,470 --> 00:27:27,170 said this to me I still have that little like ohh could you 493 00:27:27,180 --> 00:27:31,310 just check and they're they're more than willing to say yeah 494 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:37,860 that looks perfectly fine carry on and and yeah my I was really 495 00:27:37,870 --> 00:27:42,300 lucky sort of my project manager and my line manager has given me 496 00:27:42,350 --> 00:27:46,160 work that's specifically mine and I've owned and I've produced 497 00:27:46,170 --> 00:27:50,600 and I've gone out and done sort of the stakeholder comms and 498 00:27:50,650 --> 00:27:53,880 sort of organised my own like little mini project within it. 499 00:27:53,890 --> 00:27:57,620 So with the car parks one I went out and found car parks 500 00:27:57,630 --> 00:28:00,920 solutions. So where people have tried to 501 00:28:00,970 --> 00:28:04,680 overcome challenges in their car park, whether that's sort of 502 00:28:04,690 --> 00:28:08,440 having a park run and they've got to read just how the car 503 00:28:08,450 --> 00:28:13,950 park actually works and maybe change how they sort of run 504 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,200 their car park to allow park runners to come and just park 505 00:28:17,210 --> 00:28:22,800 for that little bit and then go to vandalism. 506 00:28:22,810 --> 00:28:28,680 So someone set up CCTV, Wi-Fi cameras in a particular car park 507 00:28:28,750 --> 00:28:34,280 and just I my aim for that was to just bring a load of case 508 00:28:34,290 --> 00:28:38,930 studies together and contacts for other car parks to then see 509 00:28:38,940 --> 00:28:42,410 and go, ohh, I've got a similar problem and their car park 510 00:28:42,420 --> 00:28:46,340 sounds pretty similar to mine. Maybe I can use that and maybe 511 00:28:46,350 --> 00:28:49,330 that'll just alleviate some of the problems that we're facing. 512 00:28:49,340 --> 00:28:55,180 So at the moment and to sort of go alongside sort of the 513 00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:59,260 replacement technology project that's also happening. 514 00:28:59,350 --> 00:29:04,670 And they gave that to me to sort of own produce and then send out 515 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,560 and distribute. And that was really good because 516 00:29:07,570 --> 00:29:11,750 it did teach me a lot about how to sort of engage with people at 517 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:16,040 property, setting up meetings and stuff and being sensitive 518 00:29:16,050 --> 00:29:20,660 sort of with information and things like that, because car 519 00:29:20,670 --> 00:29:24,960 parks for a lot of properties are a touchy subject. 520 00:29:25,030 --> 00:29:29,970 Are there any kind of other benefits or opportunities being 521 00:29:29,980 --> 00:29:34,850 on a an apprenticeship programme like this that that you've 522 00:29:35,660 --> 00:29:39,690 really appreciated? I think I've liked the way that 523 00:29:39,700 --> 00:29:42,020 I've learned it's not. How do you mean? 524 00:29:42,180 --> 00:29:47,080 As in, it's been sort of my time to learn and things like that. 525 00:29:47,140 --> 00:29:53,110 It's I think I've managed to gain experience and also do the 526 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,810 qualification and I can apply them which is nice because I can 527 00:29:56,820 --> 00:29:59,860 physically see it rather than sort of when you're just 528 00:29:59,870 --> 00:30:03,240 studying for an exam say if you do an intensive course and 529 00:30:03,250 --> 00:30:05,380 you've got all the theory behind it but you don't have the 530 00:30:05,390 --> 00:30:08,150 experience. And I think that's what's been 531 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,500 great about this apprenticeship and which why I wanted to do it 532 00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:14,940 because I looked at it and I was like that's the way that I want 533 00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:19,520 to learn on the job. I can apply real situations to 534 00:30:19,830 --> 00:30:23,580 things that I'm learning about in the modules and and other 535 00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:28,190 things like that. And yeah, I think that's what 536 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,810 attracted me to sort of apprenticeship rather than just 537 00:30:31,820 --> 00:30:35,090 doing another qualification. Because sure, I could just try 538 00:30:35,100 --> 00:30:38,400 and study project management, but I don't think I would have 539 00:30:38,410 --> 00:30:41,730 ever fully understood it unless I was actually there. 540 00:30:41,780 --> 00:30:47,970 Yeah, that makes sense. And has it sold you to a career 541 00:30:47,980 --> 00:30:51,910 in project management? Is that where your foreseeable 542 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,970 career lies, do you think? I definitely think so. 543 00:30:55,980 --> 00:30:58,190 But I also like, I'm open to anything. 544 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,370 I think it's given me a lot of transferable skills. 545 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,790 I think at the root, project management just gives you that 546 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:11,330 sort of place to apply yourself. So in any kind of field, there's 547 00:31:11,340 --> 00:31:14,230 so many skills that you pick up that you can just bring to other 548 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:17,260 places and things. And especially those people 549 00:31:17,270 --> 00:31:21,750 skills, I think they're hugely misunderstood and they're hugely 550 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,940 important to very loads of jobs and especially sort of 551 00:31:25,950 --> 00:31:31,370 management jobs in general. But currently I think I would 552 00:31:31,380 --> 00:31:34,030 like to stay in the trust and I'd like to stay in project 553 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,200 management. Ohh was she the best of luck for 554 00:31:36,210 --> 00:31:37,240 that? Thank you. 555 00:31:37,250 --> 00:31:41,850 Keep my fingers crossed. Yeah, this is my favourite. 556 00:31:42,290 --> 00:31:45,190 Finally, I meet Maddie Hills, who works in the National Trust 557 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,320 Project and Programme Management Office. 558 00:31:47,410 --> 00:31:50,240 After studying Asian Pacific and North Korean studies at 559 00:31:50,250 --> 00:31:54,350 university, I began by asking her why she wanted to work at 560 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:59,580 the National Trust. So my whole childhood was going 561 00:31:59,590 --> 00:32:01,850 to National Trust properties, which I think a lot of people at 562 00:32:01,860 --> 00:32:04,770 the same yeah. So I've always known about the 563 00:32:04,780 --> 00:32:06,710 trust and always loved the trust. 564 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:11,420 And when I was had finished uni and was looking into what career 565 00:32:11,430 --> 00:32:17,250 I wanted to pursue, I started looking into internships at 1st 566 00:32:17,260 --> 00:32:21,480 and then I was looking at the trust because when I was at 567 00:32:21,490 --> 00:32:23,290 university I did a lot of volunteering. 568 00:32:23,660 --> 00:32:26,860 So I thought perhaps in my year off I could start looking at 569 00:32:26,940 --> 00:32:29,150 volunteering, just to get a bit of experience. 570 00:32:29,860 --> 00:32:33,770 So I was originally looking at the trust to start volunteering 571 00:32:33,780 --> 00:32:36,630 and then I saw that they had apprenticeship programmes and I 572 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,870 thought it would be perfect because obviously I'd spent five 573 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,130 years at uni but I didn't have any work experience at all. 574 00:32:43,180 --> 00:32:45,980 So I knew that finding a job was going to be incredibly 575 00:32:45,990 --> 00:32:50,100 difficult, but then the apprenticeship programme, it 576 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,490 offered me such a great opportunity to actually enter 577 00:32:53,500 --> 00:32:59,190 the workforce and be able to learn a trade as well, which I 578 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,440 wasn't expecting. So I looked into project 579 00:33:02,450 --> 00:33:05,230 management and it seemed like it fit quite well with my 580 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:10,990 personality and the sort of the variation of things that you 581 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,870 could be doing. And obviously thinking further 582 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,410 ahead with my career, I could go into so many different things 583 00:33:17,740 --> 00:33:19,730 with a project management qualification. 584 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,050 So these forces are kind of transferable skills. 585 00:33:22,060 --> 00:33:24,490 Or, yes, exactly. Training you would get. 586 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,310 Yeah, yeah. And obviously having already 587 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,210 loved the Trust for so long and my degrees at uni were very much 588 00:33:33,260 --> 00:33:37,190 history and culture based, so it was something that felt like it 589 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,170 fit very well for me. So I'm incredibly lucky that I 590 00:33:41,180 --> 00:33:44,300 applied and I got the position. I mean, you're based in the 591 00:33:44,310 --> 00:33:49,150 central office in the PMO, the project and programme management 592 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:54,580 office. I guess, um, that must give you 593 00:33:54,630 --> 00:33:58,880 a kind of opportunity to have an overview of the entire trust 594 00:33:58,890 --> 00:34:00,800 work with it, you know, project management. 595 00:34:02,330 --> 00:34:04,040 How do you find that? Is that it's? 596 00:34:04,050 --> 00:34:07,010 Incredible. I think before I started working 597 00:34:07,020 --> 00:34:10,770 with the Trust, I didn't understand the breadth of the 598 00:34:10,780 --> 00:34:14,350 work that is done. And obviously project work is 599 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,020 such a huge way that the Trust delivers its ambitions. 600 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,900 And being in the PMO that we have insight to so many 601 00:34:23,909 --> 00:34:29,290 different types of projects and obviously with our whole purpose 602 00:34:29,300 --> 00:34:30,850 is to support the project community. 603 00:34:30,860 --> 00:34:34,889 So we get to go and visit lots of different projects to sort of 604 00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:39,199 understand better what they're doing and how they work and sort 605 00:34:39,210 --> 00:34:41,179 of the type of support that they need from us. 606 00:34:42,100 --> 00:34:46,949 So we're able to you know get that kind of insight and we've 607 00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:49,670 we also get to do sort of volunteering. 608 00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:53,210 So we sort of take the opportunity to visit different 609 00:34:53,219 --> 00:34:56,570 properties and actually get a bit hands on with the type of 610 00:34:56,940 --> 00:34:58,670 you know context they're working in. 611 00:34:59,330 --> 00:35:05,240 We've done tree planting and fence building on a beach and we 612 00:35:05,250 --> 00:35:07,820 get just such incredible opportunities. 613 00:35:07,830 --> 00:35:12,040 And it's really you don't understand how complex an 614 00:35:12,050 --> 00:35:15,220 organisation like the Trust is from the outside. 615 00:35:15,290 --> 00:35:19,150 And one of the projects that also the main project that I 616 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:24,930 work on is the Planning and project Platform Modernization 617 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:28,740 project. That's a mouthful, not me. 618 00:35:29,130 --> 00:35:33,100 So basically it's looking at the implementation of a digital 619 00:35:33,110 --> 00:35:37,440 solution to help project managers do what they do. 620 00:35:37,730 --> 00:35:40,240 And so it's a PPM tool, OK, really. 621 00:35:40,250 --> 00:35:45,850 But we're really focused on how that's going to be embedded and 622 00:35:45,910 --> 00:35:49,620 what the project community need from it because we don't want to 623 00:35:49,630 --> 00:35:52,220 implement something that isn't going to suit the way that they 624 00:35:52,230 --> 00:35:58,590 work. So that's a hugely IT based, but 625 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,490 it's also got that sort of business management side of it 626 00:36:01,500 --> 00:36:05,710 and everything that we do is about the communities that we're 627 00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:10,250 doing it for which is the staff at the National Trust. 628 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,250 What? What's it like coming in as an 629 00:36:12,260 --> 00:36:14,730 apprentice? And when I first started, I was 630 00:36:14,740 --> 00:36:17,310 doing a lot of sort of supporting the other team 631 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,650 members and what they were doing and a lot of observation. 632 00:36:20,660 --> 00:36:24,210 But I quite quickly sort of took on my own work, which. 633 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,830 Was is that encouraged? Yes, yeah, it was really 634 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,780 encouraged. And my team are so supportive 635 00:36:29,790 --> 00:36:35,230 and they've always been really eager to help me learn and to 636 00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:44,640 sort of push me gently to take things on myself And but the the 637 00:36:44,650 --> 00:36:46,480 sort of breadth of the things that I've been able to 638 00:36:46,490 --> 00:36:51,300 experience like I've I've it's only been just over a year and 639 00:36:51,750 --> 00:36:53,880 I'm in such a different place now. 640 00:36:53,890 --> 00:36:56,920 Like I've got so many more skills and experience in 641 00:36:56,930 --> 00:36:59,300 different areas. Do you think that's one of the 642 00:36:59,310 --> 00:37:01,780 advantages of working in the PMO? 643 00:37:01,950 --> 00:37:03,320 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 644 00:37:03,330 --> 00:37:06,050 Yeah. Because we've looked at because 645 00:37:06,060 --> 00:37:09,420 obviously we own a lot of the tools that our project managers 646 00:37:09,430 --> 00:37:13,550 use and that covers you know, more sort of scheduling and sort 647 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,200 of day-to-day running, but also like finance management. 648 00:37:17,830 --> 00:37:20,760 So stuff that I never would have even thought that I need 649 00:37:20,770 --> 00:37:23,470 experience in. But it's been so useful in sort 650 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,540 of my overall understanding of what project management is and 651 00:37:26,550 --> 00:37:29,040 everything that it entails. Is it what you imagined it to 652 00:37:29,050 --> 00:37:30,080 be? No. 653 00:37:30,370 --> 00:37:31,940 What did you imagine project? Management. 654 00:37:31,950 --> 00:37:35,140 I don't think I really had an idea to begin with, yeah, 655 00:37:35,150 --> 00:37:39,560 because I I'd never really even heard of project management as a 656 00:37:39,570 --> 00:37:42,350 career. And obviously thinking that I 657 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,450 was coming into the Trust, then I sort of had this picture in my 658 00:37:45,460 --> 00:37:48,310 head of what I thought the trust was originally. 659 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:49,690 What? What was that picture? 660 00:37:49,740 --> 00:37:53,050 Which was historic houses, yeah. And I thought, ohh, the projects 661 00:37:53,060 --> 00:37:56,610 must be all to do this, This is historic places. 662 00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:02,390 And then obviously understanding more about the expanse of what 663 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,510 work that involves, I don't think I ever could have 664 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,810 understood. I don't think many people really 665 00:38:07,820 --> 00:38:10,400 appreciate, unless you work for the National Trust, just how 666 00:38:10,540 --> 00:38:13,090 much goes on behind the scenes. Yes, yeah. 667 00:38:13,100 --> 00:38:17,680 It's such an extensive place and it's incredible really to think 668 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,510 that everything that they do on the surface, that's got so much 669 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,990 that has to support it and we, I don't think anyone would realise 670 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,930 how big of an organisation it is, but it needs to be to 671 00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:34,510 deliver what we're trying to deliver. 672 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:38,430 So yeah, it's so interesting. Because you're on an 673 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,890 apprenticeship programme, there's obviously a structure 674 00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:46,980 and a framework and which, which OPM, you know has laid out. 675 00:38:48,900 --> 00:38:54,720 How beneficial has that been for you to have that structure in 676 00:38:54,730 --> 00:38:56,720 place? What advantages has it brought 677 00:38:56,730 --> 00:38:59,390 you and are you sold on the idea of being a project? 678 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,520 Manager Yes, I am sold. The structure has been 679 00:39:03,530 --> 00:39:07,670 incredibly useful because like you said, I had no experience of 680 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:12,070 project management at all. So having it broken down so that 681 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,830 I could really understand it sort of step by step and in a 682 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:17,650 logical process. I think coming into project 683 00:39:17,660 --> 00:39:20,670 management, if I was sort of presented with everything at 684 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,030 once, it would have been way too overwhelming. 685 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,390 But being able to go into it in a really clear, sort of 686 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,910 methodical way and sort of build up that understanding through 687 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:36,050 the stages and understand it that way has been so much better 688 00:39:36,060 --> 00:39:39,770 and easier for me to actually be able to comprehend what project 689 00:39:39,780 --> 00:39:44,240 management is. And does it give you a clearer 690 00:39:44,620 --> 00:39:47,330 definition? Yeah, definition of a career 691 00:39:47,340 --> 00:39:51,670 path that you can envisage. Yeah, yeah. 692 00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:53,470 And. What are your ambitions for your 693 00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:54,100 future? Career. 694 00:39:54,110 --> 00:39:57,490 That's a good question. Well, I think first and 695 00:39:57,500 --> 00:40:01,400 foremost, staying with the Trust is probably my priority because 696 00:40:01,410 --> 00:40:03,340 I just love the National Trust so much. 697 00:40:04,210 --> 00:40:09,430 But um, project management definitely as well. 698 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:13,210 I would love to be able to continue project management here 699 00:40:13,220 --> 00:40:19,730 because there's just so many opportunities and if I I could 700 00:40:19,740 --> 00:40:23,130 be doing 1 project on a coastline and then move to doing 701 00:40:23,140 --> 00:40:27,780 something more in a historic house or the opportunities are 702 00:40:27,790 --> 00:40:31,880 really sort of endless. What's it meant to you to get 703 00:40:31,890 --> 00:40:34,390 your project management qualification? 704 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:41,250 It's been a huge, yeah, it was such a milestone of thinking. 705 00:40:41,300 --> 00:40:42,670 Ohh, wow. I actually do. 706 00:40:42,980 --> 00:40:46,510 I do know project management and I I can do this and. 707 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:48,910 The good thing? Yeah, yeah, exactly. 708 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:53,070 To go from not knowing anything to now having a qualification, I 709 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:58,830 mean it's going to be a huge just step in my career that I 710 00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,920 can have that on my CV and say, look, I I do know things. 711 00:41:02,930 --> 00:41:07,020 I have done this for a year now. Can you imagine one day going 712 00:41:07,030 --> 00:41:09,810 for childhood? I think that would be a way off 713 00:41:09,820 --> 00:41:12,810 yet, but that would be an incredible step and several 714 00:41:12,820 --> 00:41:15,730 members of my team are charted Hmm. 715 00:41:16,100 --> 00:41:19,430 And so to see them sort of go through that process has been 716 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:23,570 great and sort of understand what steps are are open in the 717 00:41:23,580 --> 00:41:27,930 future and it's it's great to see that it's not just sort of 1 718 00:41:27,940 --> 00:41:31,450 qualification and that's it. There are so many steps that you 719 00:41:31,460 --> 00:41:35,330 can take to like improve and grow yourself as a project 720 00:41:35,340 --> 00:41:37,470 manager. So it's it's great to see that. 721 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,690 What do you enjoy most about your apprenticeship or the work 722 00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:47,930 that you've done so far? And I think learning, which I 723 00:41:47,940 --> 00:41:50,110 don't know if that's a good answer or not but yeah, 724 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,790 absolutely. Yeah, I'm, I love learning. 725 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,290 I mean, I did five years of university because I love 726 00:41:55,300 --> 00:42:01,330 learning, but that's been such something that I really enjoy. 727 00:42:01,340 --> 00:42:05,550 And especially being in the PMO, every piece of work that I do, 728 00:42:05,660 --> 00:42:08,980 I'm learning something new about either the Trust or project 729 00:42:08,990 --> 00:42:13,610 management. Especially within the trust 730 00:42:13,620 --> 00:42:17,360 itself. Learning is really valued and 731 00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:22,650 and being an apprentice, it means that I'm always 732 00:42:22,660 --> 00:42:27,090 comfortable asking questions. Yeah, or like, I don't feel like 733 00:42:27,140 --> 00:42:28,670 I'm the only one who doesn't know this. 734 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,200 So because it doesn't matter, because it's so emphasised in 735 00:42:32,210 --> 00:42:35,270 the Trust that everyone has something that they could learn. 736 00:42:36,720 --> 00:42:39,140 This is the harpsichord, and sometimes there's a volunteer. 737 00:42:39,150 --> 00:42:42,020 Playing it thanks Samadi and her parting words about always 738 00:42:42,030 --> 00:42:44,760 having something to learn because her attitude reflects A 739 00:42:44,770 --> 00:42:46,360 voracious appetite for knowledge. 740 00:42:46,370 --> 00:42:49,680 All three apprentices showed and whose enthusiasm for their 741 00:42:49,690 --> 00:42:52,280 careers in project management really shine through. 742 00:42:52,730 --> 00:42:56,100 Now let's go back to where we began this podcast with Rebecca 743 00:42:56,110 --> 00:42:59,500 Corcoran standing on the terrace at Durham Park as she gives her 744 00:42:59,510 --> 00:43:01,660 take on what it means to be an apprentice. 745 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,960 What was your actual involvement with the project? 746 00:43:05,970 --> 00:43:07,310 So what? What were your particular 747 00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,450 responsibilities? And yeah, so I came in at an 748 00:43:10,460 --> 00:43:13,400 early stage when we were just starting to talk with the 749 00:43:13,410 --> 00:43:15,940 landscape architect about translating this design idea 750 00:43:15,950 --> 00:43:19,590 that we had into reality. And so I played a big role in 751 00:43:19,720 --> 00:43:23,190 liaising with them and kind of getting the designs right and 752 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:24,950 the requirements of the house as well. 753 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,450 We're also going to add in a ramp on the either side so that 754 00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:32,360 accessible visitors who come out will be able to come out and 755 00:43:32,430 --> 00:43:34,090 experience the party for themselves. 756 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,550 I would walk around it. So beauty into those kind of 757 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,620 requirements and developing that brief was a big part of my role. 758 00:43:40,670 --> 00:43:43,980 So actually, as an apprentice, you're given proper, responsible 759 00:43:44,050 --> 00:43:45,880 duties here. It's, yeah, yeah. 760 00:43:45,890 --> 00:43:48,020 And I think that's something I really enjoyed is that, you 761 00:43:48,030 --> 00:43:52,400 know, I've been able to had a tangible impact and that I know 762 00:43:52,410 --> 00:43:55,080 that obviously the Gardens team have done so much with sourcing 763 00:43:55,090 --> 00:43:57,540 the plants and doing the actual work. 764 00:43:57,550 --> 00:44:00,760 But I feel it's nice to feel connected and to have known that 765 00:44:00,770 --> 00:44:02,520 some way I've played a part in. It yeah. 766 00:44:02,530 --> 00:44:04,260 So every time you come back here, you can say that. 767 00:44:04,270 --> 00:44:06,050 Exactly. Thought that was my work. 768 00:44:06,060 --> 00:44:08,250 Yeah, because I remember even when we got the quote, or we 769 00:44:08,260 --> 00:44:10,500 were, I was going out to people looking for the quotes to 770 00:44:10,510 --> 00:44:13,730 actually do this deal. And the kind of relief when we 771 00:44:13,740 --> 00:44:16,990 finally found someone who was able to do it and that you know 772 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,510 it, it was logistically gonna gonna work out. 773 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,590 And so, yeah, it feels really nice to have been part of that. 774 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,350 What did you learn first hand about project management from 775 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,850 working on this project? So I guess the big thing that I 776 00:44:29,860 --> 00:44:33,910 learned was that things take time and as you'll see, it's not 777 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,750 totally finished here. We still have a bit to go and 778 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,410 there has been a few delays and things that were a bit out of 779 00:44:39,420 --> 00:44:42,280 our control. And so I think with project 780 00:44:42,290 --> 00:44:44,720 management sometimes there can be that desire to kind of 781 00:44:44,730 --> 00:44:47,280 proceed at pace and do things quite quickly. 782 00:44:47,330 --> 00:44:50,930 But in reality, you know, good things take time. 783 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,150 And I don't think, you know, I think the result will be better 784 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,770 at the end because we've taken that time and really had those 785 00:44:57,780 --> 00:45:00,910 discussions with the house and and with the architect and 786 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:04,270 letting the metal fabricator have some more time to to, you 787 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,630 know, actually produce it and has been really beneficial. 788 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,370 And I think, yeah, just building that flexibility into your 789 00:45:10,380 --> 00:45:13,350 projects and has been a huge session for me. 790 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,020 And yeah, it just would mean when it's finished, then it will 791 00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:20,100 be, yeah, even greater and gotten even greater results. 792 00:45:20,110 --> 00:45:23,640 It's wonderful what a wonderful project to work on is we're just 793 00:45:23,650 --> 00:45:27,820 on the Gaspara Strade, yeah, overlooking the formal gardens 794 00:45:27,870 --> 00:45:30,740 and these very much a work in progress still or is this 795 00:45:30,750 --> 00:45:35,520 complete? So this yeah this area is as is 796 00:45:35,730 --> 00:45:38,560 this the Sphinx court. I think they there has been 797 00:45:38,570 --> 00:45:42,140 talks about adding a plinth or doing some sort of feature in 798 00:45:42,150 --> 00:45:46,300 the middle but if you're if you go beyond beyond the hedging 799 00:45:46,310 --> 00:45:51,200 there and that was all recently reestablished as part of the 800 00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:54,430 transformation project. And so I think the design idea 801 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,410 for the garden scene was to create a 21st century garden 802 00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:03,010 with flavours of 17th century and you have to to kind of 803 00:46:03,020 --> 00:46:07,870 reestablish that the historic avenues and to do as those 804 00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,290 people are doing right now like to go for a walk and kind of 805 00:46:11,300 --> 00:46:14,870 immerse yourself in that nature and it's something that changes 806 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:17,920 quite seasonally as well. We get a lot of tulips here. 807 00:46:17,930 --> 00:46:20,920 The the, the team plans. I think around now they're 808 00:46:20,930 --> 00:46:24,110 planting tips for for next spring and like the garden kind 809 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,290 of transforms at different times of the year. 810 00:46:26,780 --> 00:46:29,330 Do you come back regularly to work on projects here? 811 00:46:29,340 --> 00:46:31,010 Is your? Is your work done here? 812 00:46:31,060 --> 00:46:34,230 Yeah, I get I I come here for some meetings and to be on site 813 00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:36,350 and honestly it is. It does seem a bit different 814 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,550 every time I come. Yeah, with as the seasons change 815 00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:42,680 Really. Yeah, it's it's quite stunning 816 00:46:42,690 --> 00:46:48,870 really. From reconstructing Palladium 817 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,050 gardens and ornate parterres to improving car parks and 818 00:46:52,060 --> 00:46:54,990 introducing new project management systems, the 819 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,530 apprentices at the National Trust I met at Durham Park 820 00:46:57,540 --> 00:47:00,270 impressed me with their enthusiasm, sense of purpose, 821 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,880 and appetite for their work. This episode I've learned how 822 00:47:03,890 --> 00:47:07,490 Maddie, Rebecca and Flora are part of a cohort of early career 823 00:47:07,500 --> 00:47:10,100 apprentices who are important people within the project 824 00:47:10,110 --> 00:47:13,600 management team at the charity. They're being set up for a 825 00:47:13,610 --> 00:47:16,500 successful career in something they've loved to learn about, 826 00:47:16,590 --> 00:47:19,320 and I wish them all the best of luck and wherever their journeys 827 00:47:19,330 --> 00:47:22,580 take them next. This episode completes our 828 00:47:22,590 --> 00:47:25,780 three-part series that has taken us behind the scenes at APM 829 00:47:25,790 --> 00:47:29,120 corporate partner the National Trust to understand how the 830 00:47:29,130 --> 00:47:32,780 project management puzzle fits together at the charity and how 831 00:47:32,790 --> 00:47:35,900 it's been supported by APM to create a professionalised team 832 00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:38,800 of people whose work is at the heart of how the charity runs 833 00:47:38,810 --> 00:47:41,640 itself. I've loved being given a 834 00:47:41,650 --> 00:47:45,440 backstage pass at historic House during park and meeting a bunch 835 00:47:45,450 --> 00:47:48,440 of people who are buzzing with enthusiasm for their work. 836 00:47:49,150 --> 00:47:52,800 Thanks again to Rebecca, Flora and Maddie and everyone else 837 00:47:52,810 --> 00:47:55,880 I've spoken to over the three episodes and to you for 838 00:47:55,890 --> 00:47:58,300 listening. As ever, we want to hear your 839 00:47:58,310 --> 00:48:00,300 comments, feedback and suggestions at 840 00:48:00,390 --> 00:48:03,820 apmpodcast@thinkpublishing.co.uk.