Welcome to the IPM podcast. OPM is to Childhood body for the
project profession. My name is Emma Devita and I'm
the editor of project apm's quarterly journal and your host.
In this podcast. I speak to hey, coding Unison,
Professor project management at the University of Reykjavik, he
can't invite me over early, in the year to visit Iceland and
find out more about the The projects being undertaken there
and how the university specifically through its Masters
in project. Management course is helping
create the project professionals needed to take the country
through its latest transformation.
You can read all about it in the spring issue of the journal, so
don't miss that. But now he could talks to me
about his unusual entry into project management and how the
Icelandic mindset is something we could all benefit learning
from. Welcome hair, curlier in
Reykjavik. What's it, like, in Reykjavik at
the moment? It's really nice.
It's quiet. It's not raining or not, knowing
at the moment. It's a quiet.
Beautiful morning in Reykjavik. So it was wonderful to visit
earlier in the year and I was so impressed by what you're doing
at the University and helping to shape the next generation of
project professionals, which there seems to be a very strong
demand for in Iceland at the You have a little bit of an unusual
background coming to project management.
Could you talk a bit about how you you found yourself teaching
the Masters in project management at the University of
Reykjavik? Yes, that's true.
I my background is rather unusual in the School of
Technology. So I'm a theologian.
I have a strong background in Psychology or so and philosophy
but since Early on I was always doing things so I'm very
practical in everything I do. I remember when I was a kid, I
worked in a farm. When I was 9 to 17 years old, in
the summertime, that was regarded as a something that was
good for children to do. So I built houses, I have I know
how to smelt. I can do all kinds of different
things. So, throughout my life, I've
always been very keen on. Getting things done.
So when I came back from my PhD studies in New York, I went into
theology. I also have some background in
economics and but I pursued a career like in theology with a
focus on psychology. So my PhD is in the field called
Psychiatry and religion and I worked as a hospital.
Chaplain at Lenox Hill Hospital in New York and I also did
Training as a psychoanalyst. And when I came back to Iceland,
I hooked up with my good friend, health authority in cash own and
we had, he had gotten very interested in this new field
project management and we wanted to do something together.
So we sat down and he explained to me, briefly what project
management is and and actually with a senior engineer that had
kind of been his mentor in project management.
And a man with a very long experience in the field and kind
of kind of The Godfather of project management in Iceland.
So after a very interesting encounter where we were three
sitting together, I said to them, let me go home and think
deeply what I can bring into the field.
Two days later we met again and I came back with ideas about
let's say self-management how to cope with stress Negotiations,
how to engage people in the conversations interpersonal.
Communications, Conflict Management crisis management
cultural implications of of our works ethics and I could go on
and on. So we kind of brought all of
this together and we created a program called project
leadership and product management and Leadership and
that became a great success. And out of that grew this
Master's Mpm program at Reykjavik University, is a place
for professionals who have experience and want to kind of
renew themselves or take it further.
I teach four courses, it's a product leadership self growth
and development. I blend in to it.
A lot of insights from the humanities and from philosophy
and from social sciences. There's a course on the group
dynamics and and project teams. There's a course on Project.
Negotiations, conflicts and crises.
And then there's a course on project management in diverse
cultural settings. And I'm not eating all of this
on my own there at, I bring in Talent from all over the world.
Well, impress me was to kind of very deep exploration of you.
As an individual, how that informs your style as a project
leader, and the idea of how responsible you are, as a
professional from your experience, both inside and So
the project profession. What qualities do you make your
students aware of? That makes for a successful
project leader. Well, I've sometimes said, I'm
very proud when my students that have been with us for two years.
I meet them few years laters and they say, well, I mean, the
course was very interesting, but I'm still kind of digesting all
of the things that you touched upon, and I think it kind of
Boils down to the idea that we are.
Kind of, we are cultivating them.
We are not just teaching them method to deliver project
objectives or things like that. We are really cultivating them
to take a stand as a true professionals within Society,
within the industries within government.
So they are not only like people who are just asked to do and
deliver but there are also people who Who can contribute
and influence and transform. Let's say how things are done.
How we think about things and what what it constitutes to be
professional and be a profession and what professionalism means
and this has all kinds of implications for, I'm teaching
them critical thinking ethical thinking creative thinking
Earnest. I basically teach them also
things that are usually only taught in in clinical education.
Meaning how to deal with complicated people and demanding
human situations? Because that's kind of very much
when things get complicated often untie cultural awareness
how to respect people who are different, who think differently
and I see when we when we are going through all of that in the
program, it's stimulating bit. For some it's also very
challenging sometimes because they want things to be just
simple. But I think was Einstein who
said, let's make things as simple as possible but not
simpler, you know, I think that's what that's a good
reminder, you know. Yeah.
When I came to, thank you, because I noticed how much
construction was going on. I mean, they were just cranes.
Everywhere and there are seems like a very exciting time for
projects. Could you give us an overview of
what it's like in Reykjavik at the moment and the number of
projects happening and and the demand for project professionals
now I'm born 1966, and the Reykjavik and Iceland was very
very different 1966 or when in my childhood from what you see.
Now when I was growing up there were very few foreigners here.
The road that we drove to the south coast of Iceland that was
a mutt wrote when I was a kid and if you see pictures from the
70s 80s from Reykjavik City, it's very Very it's a very it's
like a small town, very few people on the streets kind of.
But now it's this has transformed and it's in a major
transformation, I started Society.
So there's a, this immigration. So we need to really catch up
with regards to infrastructure. I mean, we are 380,000 people, I
think, and I think we have now two million tourists a year. 10
years ago, they were maybe like, 200,000 something, Like that.
I mean it has really taken off us modern society and so we are
kind of catching up. We are building a new house.
A new Mega project. That's the new University
hospital. They are building bridges, all
around the country made when I was a kid, the you couldn't
drive around the island because they were not pretty is
everywhere and technological infrastructures Say internet,
you have a, you have a fiber Connection in all households in
Iceland. It's a very big island, but we
are very few. So, yeah, and power plants and
road construction, sand apartment houses.
But I remember also, before 2008, they were also a lot of
cranes. And I, then we kind of some
people said, well, hey, you should be careful if there is
like all of those construction cranes, they know something.
Is off. You know, you might be heading
for disaster, kind of a thing, but the Reykjavik city is
growing at a lot. So we really need to very strong
demand for housing here. It's a very vibrant place and
there is the many things going on.
So the demand for project professionals must be high, who
are the people in your courses? And where do they end up going?
They come from all sectors of society.
I mean, we have We have Engineers who have been building
power plants in in Iceland, aluminium smelters in Georgia or
Aunt in the Russia and in Iran. And we have people who have been
involved in geothermal Enterprises in Africa.
And in South America, we have people from an aviation, we have
Educators, Teachers, Health Care Professionals it people,
business people, if you have also actor Hours.
And now they're actually two ballerinas that are kind of
changing their careers. So on the they are very
dedicated. Make excellent material for good
product managers because they are very dedicated and very
disciplined and it's interesting to see how they work.
Do you detect a changing attitude towards project
management? It's something that is a big
profession and attractive profession to consider.
Now I kind of came into this field.
When it was the notion of something specific called
project management or professional product management
Kind of force gaining momentum. When I, when I entered the
field, since then we have been really producing and certifying
people with the knowledge and the skills and the competence to
go out and prove themselves and to me until key and and our
programs have been absolutely in the Forefront.
And this now some other up starting to Provide education
and project management as well. But but what's happening now is
also that our students are coming back with a loaded with
experience. And so I think we are now at the
threshold of Alaska and you've New Era and product management
in Iceland where we have loads of people that know what project
management is they It see themselves as Property
Management professionals, and and now it's all its kind of
harvest time when when we are really seeing the, the the
flourishing of the profession in the, in the fields, or so to
speak, or we need to kind of also be at the Forefront.
And that's why we have been constantly being making a deal.
Judgments to the program and we are always looking for new or
exploring new opportunities. I am almost to talk to you about
something. I found fascinating when I was
in Reykjavik, which is the exposure to the Icelandic
mindset, which is very just do. It, can you can you tell us a
bit about that? It was something we talked about
a lot when I was there, but what's the phrase you have you
know, about getting stuff done? Because it is very much.
Let's just get on with it. And how does that?
How is that an advantaged when it comes to project management
and then also what are the Advantages that need to be
counted. Yeah, well I think when when you
were here, I try to inject you with some ideas about how
brilliant and bright. And we are, I mean in many case
we are just like other people and there are certain things
that are not so maybe mature, so to speak.
I mean, we are, we are still learning.
We are sometimes not overly organized.
We are sometimes a little bit ignorant.
We are Lil Bit, sometimes too sure about ourselves that kind
of the Islanders mentality. I mean, there is some kind of
people are, you know, greedy and, you know, people are trying
to get away with things like anywhere else I guess.
But if we, if you look at the of the positive sides, I mean there
are few things that I think really are good when it comes to
project management. I mean, you don't need to teach
us to be Archie. I'll, I think we are very Iati.
I'll we are also very very cell tile.
We can if we we think it's not working, it's easy for us to
turn around and explore new options.
But that might also be because we have very small and there's a
relatively much trust in like Social Capital trust in society.
It must also be informed by the environment in which you live,
even you live on volcanoes. That must inform the way you
think as well. Yeah.
I mean that's why I plan to much when we you have to be like you
have made plans, then there's an eruption and then there's a
blizzard then there is this a lot.
I mean, I was in London, London bonjour.
I think I know obviously New York and all the train system in
the UK is shut down. And I was surprised.
It didn't feel like, you know, nothing to watch.
We send our kids to school in blizzards, you know.
So we are very adjustable. We are Very flexible.
We are, we are we can we have a lot of stamina for change?
I would say we are curious. We are witty.
I think in our own way, we are relatively.
We are pretty respectful and very accommodating.
I mean we will we will always try to help everyone.
That all of those qualities can be really good in project
management and the ability to just get on with.
I think that was what impressed me as well.
That's right there phrase that you're asking about this this
that that red dust separatist because you know people might
say oh my God this is now this is going to be a this is a
disaster you know, it would be awful in this doesn't work, you
know you and we will say oh no the that path that this will be
okay, come on, that kind of thing.
We will figure it out somehow. And I think that's I mean, like,
Positive cited, its kind of optimism, but the downside is
that it's like, you know, lack of planning sometimes and, and
lack of willingness to comply to objectives or, you know, we just
want to do it our way. I mean, we are independent
people. We are like an independence.
Here means to be that that you might, it basically means that
you don't have to deal with anybody.
You know, you're just doing things.
On your own in your own way and and highly highly self-reliant.
That's right. Yeah, I'm resilient.
And I mean, I mean you're involved with to actually talk
to us a bit about the work, you do is DM the rescue service
because that must reflect an awful lot on the kind of
challenges of working in a night of living in Iceland as well.
The athletic search and rescue services are volunteer.
It's a big Association that is there like it's like clubs all
around the island. Island and we can be called out
anytime and we go out and we just do our best to accommodate
on be of help and it can be the farmers.
It can be people running working in the facing Factory.
So it can be any, Orchestra people, the carpenter the
professor whomever. So we just try our best to help
and the help is for free. That's also quite Thing, it has
been for free because we want people rather to call us rather
than to be afraid of being being persecuted or having to deal
with their insurances and things like that.
We just want to let answer that kind of equality, that social
what you say. It's a very, it's a very
beautiful thing that, you know, we are not gonna leave you
alone, we will try our best to help.
And I think that It compiles down into the project
management, you know, we we try to accommodate, we try to figure
it out, we try to all that attached to it, we will figure
it out somehow, no matter how Bleak, it becomes it really, it
will be okay. You know.
I think that's the, I would, if I was in a crisis situation at
work or in a mountain, then I definitely think I'd want.
And I slander there to tell me that everything is going to be,
all right? I mean, I'm just thinking about
the crisis that the crises that people might face a while.
Work or just that situation when everything starts to go wrong,
have you got any words of advice?
If you suddenly find yourself in a crisis situation that that you
can pass on from your work working, you know, not only
teaching on the Masters but also from dealing with rescue
situations, any advice you would pass on to people We'll have a
plan, that's very important. You should have a plan and and
you should stick to the plan. As long as you decide.
So, let's stick to plan a all the way until you decide to go
to plan B. And then, if that doesn't work,
you go to plan C. So be organized, have a plan but
also be flexible, if it doesn't work, so that is one thing I
would also say try to do what is interesting and gives.
Give you Joy, you know, rather than to you know, don't waste
your life or your talent or whatever, in something that is
miserable. So this is more general advice.
I mean, the advice you give to your students to make a
successful career in project management.
So I mean do do do what you enjoy?
So any other advice you would give for those setting out on a
project management path. Be critical in.
In what you are asked to do try to understand well what you want
to do, and when you are defining, what you want to do
and then think of it from different angles and and really
try to accumulate as many insights into it beforehand
before you start them too. Plan and then, execute your
plans. And this sometimes demands that
you look out of your convention out of your box.
So, to speak. And I do.
It also means that you try to be aware of biases, and noise, and,
and politics and all the aspects that might be influencing.
You without you realizing it. So I think that's something that
I'm trying to make people be aware of because I think a
professional has a very dire responsibility, not only to
themselves but also to the team and the organization and to
Society at large and even to Future Generations.
So, so put things into like an ethical perspective or into a
think the Beep, when you're doing things, you know, and then
all of the use, all the methods that are at your disposal
disposal in from the discipline you, their property management
is a is loaded with tools and techniques, but it's also a
philosophy of life. I would say, I mean, when you
look around and you can actually see, oh, I can look at this as a
project and there's a prototype are the supported here and And
that has some implications you you want to Define and plan and
execute and see things happen. And then you want to be able to
finish it and move on and do something new.
I think that's a very good way to look at live.
Also, in general, speak to people rather than speak about
people. You know, try to always be
encouraging rather than undermining be.
Be kind and accommodating. Be open and listen, deeply, let
others, teach you also, think of it this way.
I mean, what you give out is what you get back if you if you
are happy and and kind and you. That's what you get back and
also be assertive in the in a constructive way, something like
that. I mean it's not it's just wanted
to advise not only did Only for project management for living
life in general. So thank you.
I feel as though I've got a nice insight into the Icelandic
mindset there and into the exciting times that are
happening in Reykjavik at the moment.
Was there anything else you wanted to add?
I think the future for project management is very bright.
I think it's actually the method or the philosophy that will
prevail in the new era. That is a very living, very
Citing times. I mean, artificial intelligence
technological, autonomy Sation the international cooperation
between universities and in research something Industries
and it's very living. Very, very exciting times but we
don't know what it will mean to all of us.
And I think the profession that will be very capable of
navigating this If people do things, right is the profession
of product management because they will always be projects and
there will always be problems that need to be solved with
projects. They will always be innovations
that need to be designed and implemented.
I think I say I will do many of the cognitive skills better than
most and many of the behavioural skills.
But in essence, what does it constitute to be a human being?
And what does it constitute to be a mean to be a professional?
I think that's. That's something that we should
really are questions that we should really take to our hearts
and try to answer in a creative way.
That's a wonderful way to end our conversation today.
Thank you. How could that was?
So interesting, thank you for your time.
Thank you, too. Thanks again, take her for
joining us and don't forget to look out for more episodes of
the APM podcasts in to rate and review as wherever you get them
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