1 00:00:13,900 --> 00:00:17,200 Welcome to the OPM podcast. OPM is the childhood body for 2 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:20,500 the project profession. My name is Emma divita and I'm 3 00:00:20,500 --> 00:00:24,100 the editor of project apm's quarterly journal and your host 4 00:00:24,700 --> 00:00:27,100 in the hot seat. Today with me Zany hair sign, 5 00:00:27,100 --> 00:00:29,400 the project management brains behind the fabulously 6 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,500 successful, Commonwealth Games and Birmingham. 7 00:00:31,500 --> 00:00:34,400 This summer. The games were filled with color 8 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:37,100 and energy, and were billed as the most sustainable, and 9 00:00:37,100 --> 00:00:40,300 diverse games ever. But what was it like to pull off 10 00:00:40,300 --> 00:00:43,500 this huge undertaking and will the city of Birmingham, be able 11 00:00:43,500 --> 00:00:46,600 to Capitalize on its Legacy. Annie, welcome. 12 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:48,200 I'm delighted to have you here today. 13 00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:49,300 Brilliant. Thank you. 14 00:00:49,300 --> 00:00:51,500 I'm a delighted to be, it's great to be online with you 15 00:00:52,100 --> 00:00:54,600 before we get into the games, I thought it'd be easier. 16 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,300 If you could give us a bit of background on your career and 17 00:00:57,300 --> 00:00:59,900 how you actually got into project management if you don't 18 00:00:59,900 --> 00:01:02,000 mind. Yes, certainly. 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,800 So I originally studied electrical engineering at the 20 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:11,100 University of Cambridge and and as part of that, I spotted a 21 00:01:11,107 --> 00:01:13,600 couple of guys that were working in the Army on a sponsor 22 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,200 Arrangement, which look quite appealing getting involved with. 23 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:20,400 So combining the engineering with sports and eventually 24 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:23,000 training. So I was lucky enough to get an 25 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,000 army cadetship, which then meant I spent six years with the re me 26 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:31,300 in the British Army and sort of traveling the world so to speak. 27 00:01:31,300 --> 00:01:35,600 But on a number of number of different engagements and then, 28 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,600 I was, I did that for six years and at the end of that, really 29 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,200 sort of thought. Okay, what do I want to go to 30 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:45,300 now and look to combining two? Technology management 31 00:01:45,300 --> 00:01:48,700 consultancy with project management, and I ended up with 32 00:01:48,700 --> 00:01:52,000 a small consultancy that did exactly that based in Guildford. 33 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:55,200 And that was really the introduction to project 34 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,200 management for me. From there I stayed in Guilford 35 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,400 or with that company for nearly 15 years. 36 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,600 We were taken over as part of that, moved back to Cambridge 37 00:02:06,300 --> 00:02:09,000 more into sort of consultancy and operations. 38 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,600 And then from there sort of took a sideways step into sports. 39 00:02:13,700 --> 00:02:17,800 Project management. And from there eventually ended 40 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,400 up in Birmingham. Clothes, keep what you enjoy 41 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:25,000 about project management. What is it that kind of engages 42 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:28,700 you about it? I think for me it's I really 43 00:02:28,700 --> 00:02:32,200 enjoy having that oversight from sort of start to finish or even 44 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:36,200 from the initial concept talking to a client understanding what 45 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,700 they want to do and then putting a project together and seeing it 46 00:02:39,700 --> 00:02:43,500 through or leading it through to completion that. 47 00:02:43,500 --> 00:02:46,500 That for me, the entirety of that visibility is is 48 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:49,600 fundamental, but at the same time I've been Been involved in 49 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,200 so many different projects, different sectors, different 50 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:57,600 industry Industries. And that variety is absolutely 51 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,200 fascinating and I could never have imagined when I left the 52 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:03,100 army that I would have been involved in the different 53 00:03:03,100 --> 00:03:05,500 projects. I have over the last 20 years. 54 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,500 Okay? So, and so, you're well, not 55 00:03:08,500 --> 00:03:10,800 your current role. We'll talk about that later, but 56 00:03:11,300 --> 00:03:15,900 your role at Birmingham games. How did you get involved with 57 00:03:15,900 --> 00:03:18,800 that and why did you want that particular role? 58 00:03:20,300 --> 00:03:24,800 So, prior to the game. So, in late 2019, I'd spent a 59 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,200 couple of years with British rowing looking after their 60 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:31,300 technology projects. I saw the opportunity and 61 00:03:31,300 --> 00:03:34,600 Birmingham, come up as director of program, management and 62 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,800 integrated planning. And I simply put an application 63 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,900 in on spec, I had I had been involved in a number of games, 64 00:03:41,900 --> 00:03:44,600 so probably the most significant one obviously being London. 65 00:03:45,300 --> 00:03:48,100 I've been involved in hockey and Technical officiating there. 66 00:03:49,100 --> 00:03:53,100 And so my interest and passion for these large multi-sport 67 00:03:53,100 --> 00:03:56,200 games was just kind of was growing with each and every 68 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,100 game. So I've been to, I've been with 69 00:03:58,100 --> 00:04:01,100 Glasgow Commonwealth Games there, I've been out the 70 00:04:01,100 --> 00:04:06,500 Invictus games in Sydney and 2018 so the opportunity to 71 00:04:06,500 --> 00:04:10,200 combine my career which essentially is how I saw it with 72 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,600 my passion was something that I really I really couldn't miss 73 00:04:14,900 --> 00:04:18,600 and so as I say I put the application in and then very 74 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,700 quickly I found myself in Birmingham and late, twenty 75 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:27,000 twenty nineteen in the role as director taking over the program 76 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:28,500 management for the organizing committee. 77 00:04:29,100 --> 00:04:31,000 Okay? So in that role, what were your 78 00:04:31,300 --> 00:04:34,800 what did you set out to achieve and looking back, do you feel as 79 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:39,400 though you did achieve them? So I think it initially this was 80 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,200 this was a big step into program management, but at the same 81 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,800 time, I was very passionate about being involved in the 82 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,500 games and a part of that was almost like this games was going 83 00:04:49,500 --> 00:04:51,400 on. I wanted to be a part of it. 84 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,300 I want to be able to contribute to it and to bring my corporate 85 00:04:55,300 --> 00:04:58,300 skills and sort of the experience from the different 86 00:04:58,300 --> 00:04:59,900 environments that I've worked in. 87 00:05:01,100 --> 00:05:04,000 I really felt very passionate about being able to do that with 88 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:05,800 with the team there in Birmingham. 89 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,900 And the role was, it was not only about sort of leading 90 00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:12,900 program management within the organizing committee, which 91 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,600 starts out of it as a very small organization. 92 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:19,100 So, when I joined, there are probably about 80 or 90 people 93 00:05:20,100 --> 00:05:23,600 through to when we deliver the games close to 2,000. 94 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,400 So it is a very changing organization. 95 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:30,700 You have to keep a pace with that, but in parallel to it, 96 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,900 it's also working with all the partners, all the stakeholders 97 00:05:33,900 --> 00:05:37,300 that are involved in the games and as, as you, Well imagine 98 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,200 there are many people that are involved and even more people 99 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,300 that want to be involved. So had a key role in sort of 100 00:05:44,300 --> 00:05:48,200 that stakeholder management as well and tracking the 101 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:51,800 development, the progress of a number of different programs 102 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,400 towards delivery earlier this year. 103 00:05:54,900 --> 00:05:59,500 And I think Looking Back Now end of July was little bit frantic, 104 00:05:59,500 --> 00:06:04,000 but by the end, well by the 10th of August, when we finished the 105 00:06:04,008 --> 00:06:07,600 games, It was absolutely incredible. 106 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,500 What happened in Birmingham and I don't think we could have 107 00:06:10,500 --> 00:06:14,500 helped have asked for anymore. We had hoped and in my mind, it, 108 00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:17,700 I thought it would be great to create what we did in London and 109 00:06:17,700 --> 00:06:22,200 recreate that in Birmingham. And I do genuinely think that we 110 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,300 achieve that ten years on almost to the day, which is absolutely 111 00:06:26,500 --> 00:06:29,700 incredible. What are you most proud of? 112 00:06:30,900 --> 00:06:33,900 I simply just being a part of it, I think it it all comes 113 00:06:33,900 --> 00:06:37,600 together against time and I spent two and a half years 114 00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:40,700 planning thinking working through various different 115 00:06:40,700 --> 00:06:44,600 scenarios, working with the team's thinking about some of 116 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:46,800 the big risks as part of program management. 117 00:06:47,300 --> 00:06:49,300 What if this happens? What if that happens? 118 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,900 It was fair to say that some of those risks did materialize but 119 00:06:53,900 --> 00:06:58,100 actually to come out the other side and then feel the we had 120 00:06:58,100 --> 00:07:02,200 covered all of those risks and a It didn't materialize. 121 00:07:02,500 --> 00:07:08,800 And we've got appropriate plans mitigation in place to deal with 122 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,200 them, should they have a risk? And that was a real sense. 123 00:07:11,700 --> 00:07:14,200 Sense of achievement for me. Okay? 124 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,200 Me it's inevitable, I'm going to ask you what those risks were 125 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,800 low and also what were the biggest challenges that you 126 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:22,300 faced? And how did you overcome them? 127 00:07:23,500 --> 00:07:26,600 Well to share a little secret on the inside when I arrived in 128 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,600 December, 2019, we had quite a long risk register already and 129 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,000 there was one on there that said how to deal with the event of a 130 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:36,800 pandemic. And I remember looking at that 131 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,700 and going okay, well, well, we're, you know, we're just park 132 00:07:39,700 --> 00:07:44,900 that this was in December, 2019. It's fair to say that by 133 00:07:44,900 --> 00:07:48,900 February 20 20, I was revisiting the risk by just giving out 134 00:07:48,900 --> 00:07:52,300 exactly what had been written. Probably two years earlier. 135 00:07:53,300 --> 00:07:59,400 In a very generic kind of way. And then obviously 3 March that 136 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,800 became very real and I remember the day vividly because we we 137 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,300 said, we would do a test with the organizing committee around, 138 00:08:06,300 --> 00:08:08,200 how we would handle working at home to. 139 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:12,200 We did that on the 16th of March, and we never went back 140 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,200 into the office until the pandemic was over. 141 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:20,500 So it was a real really quick learning curve and a quick 142 00:08:20,500 --> 00:08:23,100 introduction to very rapid rapid risk. 143 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,300 Judgment with regards to that. So that was, that was the 144 00:08:26,300 --> 00:08:30,400 biggest impact on the program. And needless to say that roll 145 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:33,900 through all the way until the games, despite the fact that we 146 00:08:33,900 --> 00:08:35,400 were back in the office, we were working. 147 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,900 But it was the effect on our suppliers on our volunteers on 148 00:08:39,900 --> 00:08:43,900 the medical team. It was just so wide wide spread 149 00:08:43,900 --> 00:08:47,100 that we could never let go of what's the impact of covid. 150 00:08:47,100 --> 00:08:50,000 And it's fair to say that was not something that was on my 151 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:54,900 radar in, in December, 2019, when I took the job, I can't 152 00:08:54,900 --> 00:08:58,700 help but think that you're training in the military and as 153 00:08:58,700 --> 00:09:02,600 an officer you must have drawn on that for this particular 154 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,000 scenario. Am I correct in thinking that 155 00:09:06,100 --> 00:09:09,000 Yes. Hugely I think the Army and 156 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:10,000 certainly the training. I did it. 157 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:12,800 Sometimes he's very good at kind of putting you in stressful 158 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,500 situations and throwing a lot of things at you. 159 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,900 And so that was, it's that sort of Stress Management crisis 160 00:09:21,900 --> 00:09:25,300 Management in that kind of environment was a great 161 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:28,600 training. And I think sort of building on 162 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,600 that you just then become or you build into your skill set, the 163 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,900 ability to prioritize things and they were What actually is 164 00:09:36,900 --> 00:09:40,200 dealing with? And the Army has a particular 165 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,100 approach to leadership probably based on the idea of servant 166 00:09:45,100 --> 00:09:49,300 leadership how much does that influence your leadership style? 167 00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:52,400 Very much. So I remember, again, the 168 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,800 mozzarella salad was served to lie and that was the way that we 169 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,700 were, we were trained and sort of all the exercises we did 170 00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:03,300 there. And I think that certainly is a 171 00:10:03,308 --> 00:10:08,000 part of my leadership style in terms of really working really 172 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,700 closely with the team, almost sort of pulling up alongside 173 00:10:11,700 --> 00:10:14,500 them understanding, what their challenges are, what their 174 00:10:14,500 --> 00:10:18,200 issues are, and then helping them to work through those 175 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,800 challenges. I think one of the impressive 176 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,000 things about the games that was its diversity in sustainability. 177 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:26,900 Could you tell us a bit more about that? 178 00:10:26,900 --> 00:10:31,000 And it, and whether that was informed, by the, particularly 179 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:36,700 short amount of planning time. You had more Birmingham had for 180 00:10:36,700 --> 00:10:38,700 the games because it did step in for Durbin. 181 00:10:38,700 --> 00:10:44,300 So you had less time than usual. Yeah, I know that was a really 182 00:10:44,300 --> 00:10:46,400 interesting challenge. So the read set out, I think we 183 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,700 had, they had the team had four and a half years from when it 184 00:10:49,700 --> 00:10:52,500 was awarded, which has, as you rightly say, is much shorter 185 00:10:52,500 --> 00:10:56,700 than we would normally normally plan for and then on top of 186 00:10:56,700 --> 00:10:58,200 that. So we're playing a little bit of 187 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:02,100 catch-up but on top of that we then set some really ambitious 188 00:11:02,100 --> 00:11:07,300 sustainability and diversity targets and also sort of 189 00:11:07,300 --> 00:11:09,900 thinking about what does that mean for Birmingham. 190 00:11:09,900 --> 00:11:12,100 And I think burning was very unique in the makeup. 191 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,100 Of the city and the region that we had to, we had to build on 192 00:11:16,100 --> 00:11:17,600 that. And so that's what the games had 193 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,400 to be about. It had to be the games for 194 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,300 everyone. And so, as a part of that, we 195 00:11:22,300 --> 00:11:25,500 had, we set some really ambitious, strategic objectives, 196 00:11:26,700 --> 00:11:30,200 which it is fair to say, through covid and through working 197 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,800 remotely, then became really challenging because that changed 198 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:37,000 the whole Dynamics around how we're preparing for the games 199 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:38,800 and how ultimately, we're going to deliver the games. 200 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:44,000 But I'm delighted to say that that Again looking back we 201 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:48,500 achieve those objectives and we really did ensure that 202 00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:50,900 Birmingham was the games for everyone and that everybody can 203 00:11:50,900 --> 00:11:53,900 be involved and we hit those sustainability and those 204 00:11:53,900 --> 00:12:00,000 diversity diversity targets. Did you use a particular program 205 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,500 management approach to the Commonwealth Games? 206 00:12:04,700 --> 00:12:10,400 I would say a very typically, it was probably a waterfall program 207 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:15,000 management approach, but at the same time as we get close to the 208 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:19,100 games, the whole, the whole dynamic of planning detail, 209 00:12:19,100 --> 00:12:22,000 planning, and procurement, kind of changes as we move into our 210 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,900 Readiness and our operational phases. 211 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:27,600 And as a part of that, when you're going through that, 212 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,500 everything becomes a lot more agile. 213 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,300 And we have to the time lines, become a lot, a lot tighter, so 214 00:12:33,300 --> 00:12:36,200 we're turning around. And turning around deliverables, 215 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,000 turning around actions a lot quicker. 216 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,200 So I think it's fair to say. We see that transition certainly 217 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,500 from a maybe a very standard waterfall approach through to a 218 00:12:44,508 --> 00:12:48,600 much more agile way of working. Really curious to find out what 219 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,500 your Lessons Learned are from the project. 220 00:12:50,500 --> 00:12:54,000 Not only in your kind of work capacity, but also personally, 221 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:56,800 what did you take from it? And what you bring to your 222 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:01,400 current role, I think the first thing for me in this this just 223 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,100 goes back to the really complex sort of environment. 224 00:13:04,100 --> 00:13:07,100 The complex number of stakeholders that were involved 225 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,300 is making sure that everybody understands their roles and 226 00:13:10,300 --> 00:13:13,400 responsibilities. And in particular in a, we were 227 00:13:13,408 --> 00:13:16,300 coming into a city where there's established relationships 228 00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:19,400 established, established partners, and we will leave the 229 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,800 city as the organizing committee with those Partners as well. 230 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:26,900 And they've got very established ways of working and it's almost 231 00:13:26,900 --> 00:13:30,100 unpicking those and making sure that That everybody understands. 232 00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:32,000 What does this mean during games time? 233 00:13:32,900 --> 00:13:36,600 And I think if I had my time again, I would have spent more 234 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:41,300 time up front or when I arrived really unpicking that in more 235 00:13:41,300 --> 00:13:46,000 detail and making sure that everybody understood what their 236 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:47,900 responsibilities would become games time. 237 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,300 I think the other thing for me and again this is part of a 238 00:13:51,300 --> 00:13:55,700 complex project is the level of governance and assurance that 239 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:00,100 that we experienced was huge and I think it's that Asshole for 240 00:14:00,100 --> 00:14:03,700 large large projects and large programs, but you have to be 241 00:14:03,700 --> 00:14:06,600 really smart around how you manage that governance and that 242 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:11,200 surance and the audits the internal external audits the the 243 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,300 project reviews, everything that is being thrown at you. 244 00:14:14,300 --> 00:14:17,800 So that so that actually, you put together a shed a schedule 245 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,300 of of what that governance. Looks like what those reviews 246 00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:23,600 look like, so that you're not duplicating, you're not 247 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:28,100 burdening. The teams with asks in 248 00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:32,100 triplicate Month in month out, and that we had to be really 249 00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:35,400 smart about that around how we were reporting, and then also 250 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,500 how we were scheduling those, those reviews. 251 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,000 If you got any practical tips around those two things that 252 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:44,400 you'd pass on to other program leaders out there. 253 00:14:46,100 --> 00:14:48,800 Practical tips, I would suggest it's around roles and 254 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:50,700 responsibilities. You have to get people around 255 00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:54,300 the table early and simply get things mapped out. 256 00:14:54,300 --> 00:14:56,500 Again, start with an Excel spreadsheet or whatever that 257 00:14:56,500 --> 00:15:01,300 looks like and start mapping it out with a raci matrix, best way 258 00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:04,200 to start those discussions and then obviously that leads on to 259 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:08,100 more detailed discussions with regards to the governance. 260 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:14,200 We what we tried to do was almost get a year's plan ahead 261 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:15,700 in terms of just what's the governance? 262 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,800 What meetings, what board meetings were audits, what other 263 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:24,700 maybe government, reviews are taking place so building a year, 264 00:15:24,700 --> 00:15:30,500 ahead, calendar, and then sequencing the governance. 265 00:15:30,500 --> 00:15:33,700 So that we're not having to duplicate reporting in different 266 00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:35,500 forms. So, actually, if we need 267 00:15:35,500 --> 00:15:38,900 approval, or if we need decisions, made that we can 268 00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:42,200 quickly work up through those governance chains. 269 00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:47,500 Okay, brilliant. And I want to ask if he what you 270 00:15:47,508 --> 00:15:49,400 enjoyed most about working on Boeing. 271 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,600 Did you get to see any of the sporting action? 272 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:56,200 Did you get seals, you'll spawn on stage, I did there. 273 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:00,000 I think there are so many favorite moments and I was very 274 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,800 lucky. And and certainly with my hockey 275 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,000 background, the CEO. Ian Reed was very generous in 276 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:10,100 suggesting that maybe I attended a few of the hockey sections and 277 00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:13,700 did some hosting. So I was very lucky I saw Both 278 00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:17,000 of the hockey finals and then also similarly in a, in a 279 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,200 hosting role I was at the opening and closing ceremonies. 280 00:16:22,100 --> 00:16:25,200 So whilst we didn't know about Ossie, we knew that something 281 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:31,700 very exciting was coming and to see that materialized than that, 282 00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:35,100 that be delivered in the way that it was just fantastic. 283 00:16:35,100 --> 00:16:38,000 It was just incredible. Could you give us an insight 284 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,600 into what it was like to be in Birmingham during those weeks? 285 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,000 Because yeah, I watch it on TV and there seems to be such a 286 00:16:44,008 --> 00:16:47,000 buzz around it so much energy, so much color. 287 00:16:47,500 --> 00:16:50,100 What was it like to be in the city during that time? 288 00:16:50,300 --> 00:16:52,100 And actually, let's talk about Legacy. 289 00:16:52,100 --> 00:16:56,900 How can Birmingham capitalize on on the games? 290 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,600 Yeah, I'll talk about the excitement building. 291 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,500 It was just incredible. Obviously, I was in the city 292 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,700 every day and we had a daily countdown and we saw the City 293 00:17:07,099 --> 00:17:11,099 coming to life. So all of the all of the are all 294 00:17:11,099 --> 00:17:13,500 of the graphics went up on some of the buildings. 295 00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:19,000 The, the building Centenary Square was going up the clip 296 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,099 that the game's clock which was counting down was attracting 297 00:17:22,099 --> 00:17:24,700 attention as well. And so it was just incredible 298 00:17:24,700 --> 00:17:27,300 seeing all of these things activate as the Queen's baton 299 00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:31,000 relay came into the city. That was another opportunity for 300 00:17:31,700 --> 00:17:34,800 the city to really come together and crowds to start building. 301 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,400 But then actually during Names. Absolutely phenomenal. 302 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,000 We had no idea what was going to happen in the city center. 303 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,500 I'd love to say that we did, but when the ball was brought into 304 00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:49,700 Centenary Square again, somewhat of a surprise to me. 305 00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:53,200 But could you explain what the Bull is for some listeners who? 306 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,500 Perhaps didn't see it? Sorry, so there, the ball which 307 00:17:56,500 --> 00:17:58,900 was used in the opening ceremony, which was one of the 308 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:04,600 is, obviously the key symbols of Birmingham, the Birmingham Bull 309 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,100 and this Huge. I think it was about 10 meter, 310 00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:12,000 high bull been constructed and used in the opening ceremony and 311 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:17,200 and was a key part of it. We naively thought or I naively 312 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,500 thought that might be the end of the bull at least for a few 313 00:18:19,500 --> 00:18:20,600 days. We're going to have a little bit 314 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,700 of a rest perhaps, but what actually happened was overnight 315 00:18:25,700 --> 00:18:28,900 after the opening ceremony, the bull was moved and there are 316 00:18:28,900 --> 00:18:33,100 there are videos sharing the ball driving down through the 317 00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:35,700 streets of Birmingham into the city center. 318 00:18:36,300 --> 00:18:41,500 About 3:00 in the morning and then so 6:00 for the morning 319 00:18:41,500 --> 00:18:44,400 when I walk through the square it was just incredible to see it 320 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,000 there. And I'd like to think that I was 321 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,500 probably one of the first people to see it but people then came 322 00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:54,300 into the city centre in their thousands to see the ball and to 323 00:18:54,300 --> 00:18:57,200 see the live site and to visit the shop. 324 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,400 But they were in the city centre of Birmingham. 325 00:19:00,100 --> 00:19:03,000 What did the game Steve Birmingham the city and actually 326 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:08,200 the region of West Midlands I think, I mean, a huge, a huge 327 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,500 amount. We talked about the Legacy for a 328 00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:13,300 number of years and and looked at various different 329 00:19:13,300 --> 00:19:15,900 opportunities. So if we look at the different 330 00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:19,300 programs, I mean not only have we refurbished Alexander 331 00:19:19,300 --> 00:19:23,600 Stadium, which is now a well recognized International 332 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,900 Athletics venue for future meets. 333 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:30,600 We've also got a brand new Olympic swimming pool in a 334 00:19:30,608 --> 00:19:35,300 residential area in sand. Well, the throne Paul's being, 335 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,000 In somebody's absolutely incredible and that in its 336 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:42,700 legacy mode will be a full Suite of fitness center available to 337 00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:46,100 the public of Sandwell and the local community, with various 338 00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:50,900 programs running to really promote health and well-being in 339 00:19:50,900 --> 00:19:54,200 that region with in Birmingham. And that's just, that's a couple 340 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,400 of the capital projects. But in addition to that, there 341 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,800 are various Legacy programs that are still running around 342 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:04,800 engaging youth, engaging schools making sure that they understand 343 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:08,100 what the common Keynes was all about but then taking that 344 00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:10,100 forward and taking that Legacy forward. 345 00:20:10,100 --> 00:20:13,200 So making sure that they understand the benefits of 346 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,300 health and well-being, but they are also going to access ability 347 00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:20,100 to new skills. They've got access to new jobs. 348 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:25,800 So there's been a real focus on how do we really engage the 349 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:28,800 youth community and create opportunities for them? 350 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:32,700 Whether they be in sport or whether they be in in jobs and 351 00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:35,700 skills and really leaving those skills with them. 352 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:39,200 And that, that not only sort of that, Not only was organized by 353 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,300 the organizing committee, but all the contractors that were 354 00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:45,300 involved in the games had various programs that were 355 00:20:45,300 --> 00:20:50,500 running to really encourage and embellish that promotion of 356 00:20:50,500 --> 00:20:53,900 skills and jobs. Okay. 357 00:20:53,900 --> 00:20:56,800 Thanks, you talk very much about the specifics of the Legacy. 358 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:00,100 I'm wondering at a kind of Vega level, just around the 359 00:21:00,100 --> 00:21:04,500 perception of Birmingham as a city, both nationally and and 360 00:21:04,500 --> 00:21:07,400 internationally has has the game's changed. 361 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:12,400 That has it given more confidence to the West Midlands 362 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,800 to project itself in a different way? 363 00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:19,100 Definitely. Yes, I think without question 364 00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:23,800 Birmingham has transformed and and talking to contacts, in 365 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,300 Birmingham, city council, they are so proud of what's happened 366 00:21:28,300 --> 00:21:30,500 in terms of their. They would always say that 367 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,200 Birmingham was probably quite shy. 368 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,400 We knew that they knew that Birmingham had had things to be 369 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,300 proud of, but it's had this opportunity to speak to the 370 00:21:39,300 --> 00:21:41,700 nation, to speak to the world, to Showcase everything that's 371 00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:45,100 going on. And and now very much the light 372 00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:48,200 is Is shining on Birmingham and in addition to that, we there's 373 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,300 been sort of business and tourism programs running as well 374 00:21:51,300 --> 00:21:54,300 as part of the games. So, looking at, how do we bring 375 00:21:54,300 --> 00:21:58,700 more businesses into Birmingham? How do we promote, what's going 376 00:21:58,700 --> 00:22:01,400 on in Birmingham to International businesses as 377 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,100 well? So that putting Birmingham on 378 00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:07,000 the back has been absolutely fundamental part of the games 379 00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:12,000 and I really do think that that we've taken significant strides 380 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,200 forward in terms of doing that. But what's made Birmingham 381 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,900 unique? As a host of Commonwealth Games, 382 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,500 and what do you think could be remembered for? 383 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:26,100 I think burning this certain unique in terms of the diversity 384 00:22:26,100 --> 00:22:29,900 of the city and the region. And this was something that Sony 385 00:22:29,900 --> 00:22:33,500 Commonwealth Games Federation picked up on when Birmingham was 386 00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:36,800 being appointed. Because believe it or not, there 387 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:41,300 are probably representatives of the whole Commonwealth in 388 00:22:41,300 --> 00:22:44,500 Birmingham, representative communities and making those 389 00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:47,100 links. And fostering it has been a real 390 00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:51,900 sort of pillar that we've been able to build on and really sort 391 00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:54,700 of Help people to talk about the Commonwealth stories. 392 00:22:54,700 --> 00:22:57,600 Talk about the history of the Commonwealth but also really 393 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,500 look forward around. How do we build on that 394 00:23:00,500 --> 00:23:04,700 diversity and include all of those communities in everything 395 00:23:04,700 --> 00:23:06,700 that's going on in Birmingham in the future? 396 00:23:08,700 --> 00:23:11,500 It's clear, you've got a strong interest in sports, the road for 397 00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:14,000 Cambridge. In you've been involved in 398 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,900 hockey what it sounds like for most of your life but I'd like 399 00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:21,900 to ask you what has sport taught to you about working in teams. 400 00:23:21,900 --> 00:23:24,700 What have you brought from that world into the world of program 401 00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:28,200 management? I think, for me and I've 402 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,700 probably been involved in team sports in the main through 403 00:23:31,700 --> 00:23:34,300 hockey and and Rowing. And I also did swimming but 404 00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:36,000 that's maybe not team sports so much. 405 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,100 But just working in that environment, particularly in 406 00:23:39,100 --> 00:23:44,300 rowing where when you were in an 8, if you don't get things in 407 00:23:44,300 --> 00:23:46,800 sync with the rest of the crew, the boats going to go nowhere 408 00:23:48,300 --> 00:23:51,300 and and it really is fundamental and that those kind of lessons, 409 00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:56,000 but also then more, cerebrally how do you engage Age with the 410 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,200 team. How do you work as a team? 411 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,300 How do you bring the best of a team to an event to a 412 00:24:01,308 --> 00:24:04,400 competition? And that equally applies in the 413 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,300 workplace. So looking at the team that I 414 00:24:07,300 --> 00:24:09,800 had and again, everybody that was involved in games, probably 415 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,600 had some interest in sport, maybe not quite as much as me. 416 00:24:15,700 --> 00:24:21,300 But really, you can really use that and build the team work in 417 00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:23,900 a similar way and we had a number of sessions as part of 418 00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:27,200 the organizing committee sort of looking at Team Dynamics, 419 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,100 looking at leadership. How do we bring that bring that 420 00:24:31,100 --> 00:24:34,500 to the fore and what are the lessons learnt from sport? 421 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,300 At Association for project management. 422 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,900 We know your most important project is your career but as a 423 00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:45,500 project manager, it's not always easy to make project me happen. 424 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,800 That's where our membership can help. 425 00:24:48,100 --> 00:24:51,200 We offer exclusive training qualifications and learning 426 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,000 resources to keep your development on track. 427 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,000 Join our 35,000 members and become part of the only charted 428 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,200 membership body for the project profession. 429 00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:04,100 Open up your future, but a p.m. Dot org.uk. 430 00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:10,000 Allah, ask you Annie. If you have any practical tips 431 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,900 or pieces of advice, you've got the other project managers could 432 00:25:13,900 --> 00:25:16,900 use in leading a team on managing a team. 433 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,000 What's worked for you particularly well, That's that's 434 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,100 a good question. I think in terms of sort of 435 00:25:23,108 --> 00:25:27,900 leading the team is is being present, being engaging being 436 00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:30,600 available to your team. You have to remember that all 437 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,800 your team members will be a different stages of their 438 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,800 journey of their of their experience in project 439 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,300 management. And this kind of then goes back 440 00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:41,900 to getting to know your team getting to know them in the 441 00:25:41,900 --> 00:25:46,000 workplace but also socially and understanding what makes them 442 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,900 tick. How do you get them involved? 443 00:25:48,900 --> 00:25:52,000 How do you help them? How do you help them progress? 444 00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:57,600 Because if the team is working together, the project will just 445 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:03,200 will work so much so much easy, more easily and it is, it's 446 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,700 around building, that's Energy. Building the energy in the team 447 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,000 that actually makes going to work to work on your project fun 448 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,200 and enjoyable and and people don't notice what they're doing 449 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,800 and I, you know, I'm in the game's world. 450 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,200 It's very easy because people are very passionate. 451 00:26:19,900 --> 00:26:23,900 About delivering the games but it's then sort of taking though 452 00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:26,400 transferring that into another environment and thinking okay. 453 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,500 How do we embolden the team to really work together and, and 454 00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:33,200 really sort of synchronize and go forward? 455 00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:37,300 I'm just wondering what the flip side is that, you know, when 456 00:26:37,300 --> 00:26:40,200 you're dealing with a team, there's inevitably conflict 457 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:45,000 either within the team or with outside, stakeholders, have you 458 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,300 learned anything over the years that has proved helpful in 459 00:26:49,300 --> 00:26:52,400 dealing with conflict in the right way and getting everyone 460 00:26:52,900 --> 00:26:57,400 on board together? Yeah, absolutely time and time 461 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,500 again, no project will be without this and I think it is 462 00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:04,400 very easy to put your head in the sand and hope it goes away. 463 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,300 But what you have that you have to be able to do is sit down and 464 00:27:09,300 --> 00:27:11,900 have a conversation, understand what? 465 00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:16,200 The conflict is, what is the issue and then work with the 466 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,400 individuals or work with the team, and that might mean a 467 00:27:18,408 --> 00:27:21,900 number of different conversations but really sort of 468 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,500 making sure that people can then start. 469 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,900 Pulling in the same direction and sometimes that ultimately 470 00:27:27,900 --> 00:27:29,800 does mean that you have to have some pretty difficult 471 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:34,100 conversations as well. But again, it's it's fundamental 472 00:27:34,100 --> 00:27:38,500 to not shy away from those and Tackle them as early as 473 00:27:38,500 --> 00:27:43,300 possible, because if you let them sit, the problem will only 474 00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:45,100 get bigger. The conflict will only grow. 475 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,600 So you have to you have to nip them in the bud early. 476 00:27:48,700 --> 00:27:51,700 And any advice on handling difficult conversations. 477 00:27:52,500 --> 00:27:56,700 Again, it's don't be afraid of having the difficult 478 00:27:56,700 --> 00:28:00,500 conversation. I've tried various techniques. 479 00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:03,600 Some of work, some some haven't, what's worked? 480 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,000 It's easier said than done, right? 481 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,500 I mean, it's one of the hardest aspects of being a manager or a 482 00:28:07,500 --> 00:28:11,100 leader. But what have you found works? 483 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,900 I think the key is that you have to be upfront and and I would 484 00:28:14,900 --> 00:28:20,100 say don't beat around the bush but To getting getting the nuts 485 00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:23,300 and bolts of where you want to go or what what needs to be 486 00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:25,200 said. So that people understand 487 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,300 clearly what the situation is. And if there are decisions to be 488 00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:32,400 made, they know what the landscape is and they can make 489 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,300 an informed decision. It is very easy to sort of hide 490 00:28:36,300 --> 00:28:43,300 behind and and try and avoid using various words or putting 491 00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:45,500 things in black and white and actually put it in 492 00:28:45,508 --> 00:28:49,400 black-and-white early and people going to understand, Where they 493 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,300 where they stand? Okay, that's great. 494 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:57,000 He recently left your role at Birmingham which is always the 495 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,100 plan. Can you tell us a bit about the 496 00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:00,700 role? You've just taken on what your 497 00:29:00,700 --> 00:29:02,900 responsibilities are? What you think, the biggest 498 00:29:02,900 --> 00:29:06,900 challenges will be and what you take from the Boeing and games 499 00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:09,600 to this new role. Yeah, absolutely. 500 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,700 So I finished in Birmingham at the end of September, so that 501 00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:16,300 was essentially the end of that games contract. 502 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,000 I'm now working for the Commonwealth Games Federation, 503 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,600 which is the overseeing body for all Commonwealth Games and that 504 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,800 includes the youth games, which has been rescheduled to next 505 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,200 year. So, he's games in Trinidad and 506 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,800 Tobago in 2023. I'm the Project Lead for the 507 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,500 Commonwealth Games, Federation and working with The new 508 00:29:39,500 --> 00:29:42,600 organizing committee, which is it, which is located in Trinidad 509 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,600 and Tobago. So, the immediate challenge is, 510 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:49,300 how do I work with a team that is few thousand miles away? 511 00:29:49,300 --> 00:29:55,000 And a few hours time difference, not having that sort of daily 512 00:29:55,300 --> 00:29:59,500 eyes on perspective, around progress and and that will be 513 00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:02,600 one of the biggest challenges over the next eight months as we 514 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,500 prepare for that. Okay, pretty. 515 00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:11,400 And it just leads me to ask you for any career lessons that 516 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,600 you've thought about looking over the, your career, so far 517 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:20,000 that you would perhaps pass on to project managers, starting 518 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,300 out. Now, any secrets to your success 519 00:30:23,300 --> 00:30:28,000 that you wished, you'd look new when you are first starting out. 520 00:30:30,100 --> 00:30:32,900 Again, a good question, I would suggest. 521 00:30:34,100 --> 00:30:38,000 So, When I, when I was younger, I was naturally quite shy, and I 522 00:30:38,008 --> 00:30:41,900 think that that still stays with me, and I have to proactively 523 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,300 encourage myself to speak up to get my voice, heard to take the 524 00:30:47,300 --> 00:30:51,800 opportunity to present. And I think it's again it's very 525 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,500 easy to sit in the background to be silent. 526 00:30:56,100 --> 00:30:58,400 If you want to be noticed, if you want to progress, you have 527 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,200 to speak up. You have to be heard. 528 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,500 And that is maybe one of the key lessons to my Of and I like the 529 00:31:05,500 --> 00:31:08,900 one that again certainly off the back of Birmingham is very close 530 00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:12,500 to mind at the moment is just not to take things too seriously 531 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,400 and enjoy it and relax a little bit. 532 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:19,600 It's very easy in. In project management to get 533 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:21,900 tied up with reviews and governance and I talked about 534 00:31:21,900 --> 00:31:25,400 that earlier but actually just relax a little bit and enjoy it 535 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,200 and enjoy the opportunity that you have with the project. 536 00:31:29,700 --> 00:31:34,200 And my final, final question I promise is you're one of a kind 537 00:31:34,300 --> 00:31:39,500 A few female leaders within program management within the 538 00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:44,300 profession is, is that something that is impacted on your career? 539 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,900 And do you have any advice to women, younger, sort of female 540 00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:53,400 professionals, who are planning their career or early on in 541 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:57,400 their career and you know, would appreciate some advice around 542 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,600 this. I think it's whether it's 543 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,400 impacted on me, but I've worked through a number of areas and 544 00:32:04,408 --> 00:32:07,500 number of sectors so started off in engineering and then 545 00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:11,500 electrical engineering which was very male dominant then worked 546 00:32:11,500 --> 00:32:15,000 in the Army where the statistics were probably similar in terms 547 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,300 of the representation of women and then really sort of going 548 00:32:19,300 --> 00:32:23,300 into a technology space. So I've spent a lot of time 549 00:32:23,300 --> 00:32:27,000 working in a male-dominated environment and I'd like to 550 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:32,300 think that those environments have Prove significantly over 551 00:32:32,300 --> 00:32:38,100 the last 25 years and the balance has changed, but in 552 00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:41,200 terms of some aspiring for leadership positions. 553 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:44,500 Again, it goes back to what I said earlier, around needing to 554 00:32:44,500 --> 00:32:50,400 speak up needing to be heard and establishing good relationships 555 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,600 across the teams that you're working with, and making sure 556 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,200 that people recognize you in the value that you're bringing this 557 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,000 to the team now. It would be my key word of 558 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,400 advice is just make sure that you are heard and playing 559 00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:08,500 playing the role that you deserve to be playing within the 560 00:33:08,500 --> 00:33:12,000 teams that you're working in but brilliant way to wrap up our 561 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,900 conversation. That's some really thoughtful. 562 00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:18,400 Excellent advice thank you. And it just leaves me to say 563 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,600 thanks again for your time it's been brilliant to get a 564 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,000 behind-the-scenes, kind of view of something, such a public 565 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,300 event and just leaves me to say. Thank you and good luck in your 566 00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:30,200 new role. Brilliant. 567 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:31,900 Thank you very much. Really enjoyed it and I thank 568 00:33:31,900 --> 00:33:36,400 you. Thanks again, Tony for joining 569 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,800 us and to you for listening to this episode of the APM podcast. 570 00:33:40,300 --> 00:33:42,700 Don't forget to look out for more episodes or to write a 571 00:33:42,700 --> 00:33:44,600 review us. Wherever you get your podcast, 572 00:33:45,100 --> 00:33:47,900 we'd welcome you to get in touch with your comments feedback and 573 00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:52,700 suggestions by e-mailing us at OPM podcast, at think publishing 574 00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:56,100 .co.uk. This podcast has been brought to 575 00:33:56,100 --> 00:33:59,100 you by APM the chart of body for the project profession. 576 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,900 For more information on a p.m. visit a p.m. dot-org. 577 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:03,800 UK. UK.