Welcome to the APM Podcast. AM is the chartered body for the
project profession. My name is Emma De Vita and I'm
the editor of Project APM's Quarterly Journal and your host
in this podcast. I'm speaking to three women
about menopause in the workplace, specifically working
in projects with me a 2 project professionals, Rachel Jackson, a
lead planet, Anglo American, and Joe Roberts, Head of Strategy at
the Department for Transport's. Also joining us is Ali Dilkes, a
nurse specialising in menopause. We'll be sharing experiences and
advice for everyone who wants to find out how to best deal with
being menopausal and how to best support a colleague who might be
experiencing this. Dalton 2023 issue of APM's
Project Journal also covers this topic, so please do make sure
you grab a copy. Welcome everyone.
Thanks for joining me. Why don't we begin with everyone
giving a brief introduction about what they do, the work
they do, and their interest or experience in the menopause.
So, Ali, let's begin with you. So my name's Ali Dokes and I've
been a nurse for 38 years. Most of my career husband and
Women's Health. I used to be a midwife and I've
had a special interest in the menopause for the past 15 years
since my own menopause. I'm gonna subscriber.
I'm a member of British Menopause Society and I'm
British Menopause Society accredited specialists and I
have my own private menopause clinic based in Leicester and
also in Ely and Cambridgeshire where offer women consultations
to discuss their own menopause journey.
Explain about menopause, then come up with a plan and I see
moment either face to face my clinics or do virtual
consultations as well. My interest in the menopause
started when I was 40. Actually I was working.
Was in Advanced Nurse Practitioner in a busy GP
surgery. I was recently divorced and I
had an emergency hysterectomy and nobody ever mentioned
menopausal HRT to me. I went more or less straight
back to work because I couldn't afford to have any time off work
and I had three teenage children and I just suddenly started
struggling doing a job that I've been doing for about 9 years.
I had no memory, I couldn't concentrate, I lost all my
confidence. I felt really anxious.
I couldn't remember simple jokes that I've been describing for
several years and if I could have afforded to, I would have
given up my job and changed. But a lower paid job.
But as a single parent I had to keep working.
And the surgery that I was working in had three male GPS,
so most of the women with health problems tended to come to me.
And I saw a bit of a theme really.
There was lots of women around my age or older, they were
complaining of similar things because I haven't had any hot
flushes so I hadn't really hadn't crossed my mind it.
Could be the menopause but. Then we're going to think, well,
there must be something a bit more to this.
So I did a little bit of research, went to see my GP and
said I think it might be menopausal and kind of have some
HRT which she prescribed for me straight away.
And within weeks I felt better. You know, I've got my memory
back, I've got my confidence back and I could function again.
So that's really where my interest in the menopause came
from, because I realised. Far too many women were
suffering in silence, so I joined fishermen across the city
and then eventually I settled my my own clinic about five years
ago. Joe, do you want first bit about
yourself and your work and your interests or experience in this
subject? I'm Joe Roberts.
So I'm currently head of strategy at Department for
Transport. I've been working in project
management for the last 18 or so years of my life.
My interest in perimenopause kind of happened during the
pandemic when one period stopped altogether.
I was 39 and I was just really confused and just thought I put
it down initially. So not having any female contact
us. I live with my husband and my
son and after about 8 months they started to come back.
But they came back even more painful than they've ever been
before and I just knew something wasn't quite right.
I began taking this. My symptoms, I had friends say.
I think it's the menopause, but you're way too young.
Only 39 and I was like age isn't anything to do with it.
I think it's you know happening and it was only just after 10:40
that I managed to get access to HRT.
I'm still kind of trying to trying lots of things out,
tweaking because I'm not the person that I used to be.
But when when it's right for the month or so that it's all the
stars are lying, I feel like 25 year old Joe again, not achy,
creepy, brain fog, everything. So I'm particularly keen to kind
of really emphasise any problems I come across because I figure
if I'm if I'm having difficulty with menopause then it's.
Highly likely that my peers are too.
Um, so I'm not afraid to talk about it at work.
Even with male colleagues, they all know that I'm perimenopausal
and get really hot and get really forgetful.
Because I think that we need to be having these conversations.
People need to know about it. Everyone is affected, whether
you are male or identify as female, because you have a woman
in your life and Rachel. I'm Rachel Jackson.
I work in mining at the moment. I've been working in project
management for over 20 odd years now.
In my late 30s, I was diagnosed with cancer and I had
chemotherapy. And then I went very rapidly
into the menopause and I I really suffered a sense of
identity crisis. First you've got cancer and lose
your hair and all that, and then you go out of that and you're in
the menopause much longer than expected.
And symptom wise I, you know, memory loss, lack of
concentration, poor sleep. I was very fortunate because I
was already in the medical system to get a lot of help HRT
wise. But I did find in work partly
because I was having an identity crisis, it was difficult for me
to talk about in a very male dominated environment.
And what I also found quite frustrating was to hear people
say, oh we're losing women left, right and centre, particularly
the senior women. And yet there's not really much
done at this moment in time, in my opinion, to to open up the
conversation, certainly at the senior.
Levels to say, well actually most of the women at that level
will be of a of a menopausal age and they've got a challenge of
all of these symptoms. So sort of having experienced it
myself, got quite passionate on the subject.
Well, hopefully this podcast will go some way into kind of
enlightening people and spreading the word about how to
support women. So I think it would be useful
for listeners if we could go back to basics and Get the facts
about the menopause and what it actually means and what its
symptoms are. So Ali, if you could briefly
explain what what happens to you in the menopause?
So the money, of course it is an option.
It will happen to some women at some point in their lives.
The average age of the menopause is 51, and life expectancy for
women in the UK is 83. So women potentially spend a
third of their lives postmenopausal.
And menopause is when you've gone 12 whole months without a
period. So you actually have a menopause
day. You go 12 months without a
period and that's your menopause.
You wake up the following day and your post menopausal.
But there's a time leading up to the menopause called the
perimenopause, and that's when the hormones start fluctuating
and that's when the symptoms begin.
And that's on average somewhere in your early 40s.
Symptoms can last anything from several months to several
decades and the average. And the symptoms is 7 years, But
one in 100 women will go through the menopause under the age of
41. In 1000, women will go through
the menopause under the age of 30, and one in 10,000 women will
go through the menopause under the age of 20.
And then of course, there's other reasons why women have the
menopause. There's a chemical menopause if
you have chemotherapy or radiotherapy or drugs to stop
your periods for different medical reasons.
And of course, there's the surgical menopause.
When you have your ovaries removed, typically what symptoms
surround it? The Simpsons.
I mean, there are 64 different menopausal symptoms and every
woman's menopause journey is so different.
Some women have all 64. I think I've met women that have
had 65 symptoms and some women don't have any.
So everybody is just so different.
And because hormones are fluctuating during the
perimenopause, symptoms come and go as well.
So I think women often think, oh, I'll get better or oh, it's
gone away now, so I'm OK. I'm sorry.
I've got over it. Ohh.
You forget because of poor memory, you actually forget
about the symptoms. So when you finally do go to see
your GP and talk about it, yeah, just forget half of the symptoms
that you had anyway. Things like brain fog, poor
memory, lack of concentration. Low self esteem, mood swings,
low mood, tearfulness, anxiety, dry eyes isn't really common.
Menopausal symptoms, Tinnitus, heart palpitations, joint pain,
dry skin, dry hair, vagina, dryness and saunas, lack of
libido. The list is endless, really.
Why do you think this sudden interest in the menopause?
Especially talking about it at work and how it affects working
women. Women's Health has always been
the sort of the Cinderella subject in medicine anyway.
It's always been something that's been very overlooked and
women often just get on with it because they're so busy putting
everybody else in their family at a higher priority than their
own health, so they often ignore the symptoms as well.
But I think the big difference, which is, is that the average
age of retirement is being pushed back.
Women are working potentially until they're six or seven
before they get their pension. So women are potentially working
for 17 years post menopause. Cost of living is really going
up. So lots of families do have to
have everybody in the household working because they can't
afford to not work or to work. Part side, a lot of women have
elderly parents look after because they're living longer.
Children may go to university but can't afford to buy houses,
so they come back and they're in the household.
So just the whole cost of living and family dynamics are really
changing and women are doing all these things and struggling with
menopausal symptoms as well. What do you think has changed
over the past five or ten years? Even to me, we can have open
conversations about this at work and don't have to suffer in
silence, which is what I think lots of women did before,
certainly, you know, my mum's generation.
Does anyone want to give their view on that, Joe?
Yeah, so go back to the pandemic and remember the lives that we
lived where we're all, you know, petrified of our own shadows,
Didn't want to leave the house. Now that we've come out of that
and we are in the new normal or whatever, I think there's a
large generation of people my age, you know, early 40s now
saying I don't care. I'm going to live my life how I
want to live it. And I'm going to tell people
that I'm suffering. I'm going to be honest about why
I'm off sick this day. I was off sick on Friday.
I had the worst period pain in the world.
It was actually like labour pains.
It was that bad. I I felt so nauseous and I was
just like. Sorry, I'm not going to be able
to do anything today, so see you next.
Week. And I don't think I'd ever been
able to do that before. I'd just been like, ohh, I'd
just feeling got flu or I've got a tummy bug or something.
But now, you know it, it affects me not just physically but
mentally. There's so much that is impacted
by the perimenopause, which is what I'm going through at the
moment, you know, got the brain fog.
I can never remember people's names now.
I used to be so good with names and faces and now I'm just like,
hi, how are you? And that just makes me feel
quite sad sometimes. I have to write everything down.
Absolutely everything. Down, you know, so work wise,
you know everything. I go through so many notebooks
and highlighting and what people are saying to me.
So I I don't kind of miss things and I'm not missing out on
delivery or something because I just have to remember
everything, even the doctor's appointment.
I literally sit there and I take pages of notes into my doctor
and she's just like, Oh my goodness me, because I know I
forget. And you need to know all of
these different things. What ways has it affected your
project work, and how have you found workarounds?
And how do you manage your situations so that you can get
what you want, which might be a day at home or more flexible
working? I I'm pretty honest as a person.
I'm, I'm terrible at lying. So when I first sat down with my
my boss, he was talking about something and I went, don't
worry, no risk of another child with me.
I'm going through the perimenopause.
And he just looked absolutely aghast and I went, you know, and
this is how it affects me. And I think he just was
genuinely really interested to understand how he could support
me, but also quite flabbergasted.
He's incredibly supportive. I've kind of had mentioned in
the intro of kind of going through different iterations of
HRT and how that affects me or disinfects me and means I'm off
sick for whatever reason. Them I had what I thought was a
kidney infection. Earlier in the year and it
wasn't it was actually vaginal atrophy.
And I need pessaries now because I've always literally cannot
function. I was in bed for three weeks.
Yeah. So you'll have to be really
honest now about these things. Well, I don't have to be a part.
I am because I think that I owe it to myself and to people that
are coming behind me to know that actually it's OK to have
women's problems and know that it does really hurt and
sometimes you feel terrible. And actually if it was a man
having these kind of pains they they wouldn't be at work like
being in an ambulance on the way to hospital, so and and
reasonable. I've had to kind of say when we
have the really great big heat earlier in the year and last
year when it was just so I was like there's no way I can come
into the office at all. I'm sorry, you're not getting me
into the office. As government we have to be in I
think 40% of our time, but they're just like that's totally
fine. It's it's unreasonable to ask
anyone to do that. You know, it's it's basics like
that. But also we're talking about how
we organise and how I can actually do my job.
A lot of it is writing everything down.
Chatting with people in the round conversations that we're
having, a lot of my work at the moment is around influencing
people's government. So I'm definitely using my
superior skills of emotional intelligence and kind of working
through what people are thinking, what they want and and
all of that. But equally following up with
facts and having to kind of feel like I'm working doubly hard,
double check the actual facts of a situation, how many tonnes of
material we're using or something like that.
Have to work really, really hard to make sure I have that.
OK, Rachel. I mean, your situation is a bit
different. How did going through this more
sudden menopause affect your work and how you're working it?
How did you manage that at work? How was it for you?
And also once I fortunate because I'd already been sick,
people were already quite gentle with me, so I didn't really have
to explain that much. And I was going through
menopause because I I also ended up having a transplant.
So there was quite a lot going on with me medically that I
could actually put it under the radar and people were quite
sympathetic. So that was quite good.
But I I found it was more like how it affected me personally.
I found it probably because I was young.
Younger and I hadn't had children and I had to deal with
that aspect of, Oh well, you know, that ship sailed.
I found the identity crisis I had incredibly challenging and
that was it then impacting him my confidence.
I felt like I wanted to be a wallflower and and that's not
particularly easy in an environment where you're already
made to be a wallflower because you're in the minority.
So you've got to stand up and speak for yourself in in
situations. I found that quite.
Hard like I was already struggling with who I was.
Who am I, you know who few weeks ago or a few months back I was
this woman who could have children who was in a
relationship, all sorts of things.
And then it is gone and coming to terms with that.
And also I think society still has a certain view of women in
menopause and a certain age and it's it's getting your own head
around that and thinking now I'm still an attractive female.
I'm not on the shelf or you know, it's it's all it's dealing
with that negative attitude. As well with yourself because
it, you know, my mother wouldn't talk about it.
I asked her before I went into menopause, when did she go into
menopause and all. She told me she was in Ireland,
so I don't know ever go to Ireland and she just didn't want
her generation. She just did not want to talk
about it at all. So I think something I would say
is that people educate yourselves because because I
went into early, I was totally ill prepared.
I didn't know like even more than two symptoms, never mind 64
and I think. That was quite difficult.
So for me, work wise, I was able to work from home to a certain
extent and be flexible with it. I just found it quite difficult
when I would look at somebody and I think I know who you are
and I don't know why don't you know, don't know your name at
all. And and they could tell I didn't
know the name and you think, Oh yeah, I can't explain this.
This is embarrassing physically. Again, being younger, people
don't think that's what it could be why you might be struggling,
you know. Now the age I am, they'd
probably be thinking. That's why.
But when it happened to me, yeah, you're younger people
don't. Just don't think about it as
something that could be happening to you.
How have you been able to find support?
Or have you been quite private? But I know that that people knew
you kind of were sick anyway. I think I've just been fortunate
that I've had line managers who are probably younger and more
more modern thinking, who probably have wives who tell
them plenty that they wouldn't if they were 10 years older.
There is, I do feel there is a generational shift, whereas Once
Upon a time, you know, maybe that was a good way to get a day
off and say you have like period pains and they just look at you
and run. Now I'm dealing with people who
are probably in their 30s and 40s who are line management and
they're much more open. To the subject it's they don't
necessarily want to know the details, but this they're
sympathetic and they're just a different generation thought
wise. So I've been quite fortunate in
that respect, I think. And have you gone about sort of
helping yourself at work? Something good to do is journal
your symptoms. Because then you can go to your
line manager and explain this is how this is impacting me
particularly. Again in a modern workforce we
have like hot desking policies. So you don't have the same desk
every day. So you might find you're in the
hot corner of the office and you like it or not or you don't have
a fan on your desk. So if you can journal and and go
and say this is what I need, give them solution.
Most of the time they'll be quite happy to help you and.
That, I think is a big thing. Put the case to them rather than
go and they seem and you think you're having a moan.
That's a great piece of advice, Joe.
Any other advice, Freddy? Give him some.
But anything else that's kind of springing to mind that you wish
you'd known or someone had told you?
I think if you can find others who are also going through
similar, we have a a different kind of couple of networks that
Department for Transport. We do have a women's network and
we also have like a menopause network and I have found that a
really valuable place to meet others to have a quick chat
about, Oh, I can't work this out.
Can anyone tell me how to get an occupational health referral or,
you know, anything that is made? You know medically and work
related, but equally we we've just kind of shared how we found
different offices, different ways of travelling to different
offices and what works, what doesn't and it's just a place
where you can. I definitely feel I can be
really really myself there and go I'm having a really rubbish
day can anyone help me with this and and stuff and it's for me,
it's about yeah just having that safe space to be able to say
that And again I'm fortunate that I've had a really great
line manager. I've got a really good team
around me where I feel I can say to them or, you know, I'm having
a really terrible day, I'm having a bit of a shocker.
You're going to have to step up and lead that.
And that's the beauty of having a team, right, is that it's not
all on you, is that you can kind of let others do that as well.
So that has been another kind of another thing I would recommend
is kind of making sure that you're not doing all the doing
because some days you're not going to be there to do it all.
Ali, is there anything, any advice he'd pass on, sort of
thinking about all the women that you've helped and and how
they've coped with it at work? Yeah, I think The thing is to
have an honest and open policy within the workplace and let
people talk about menopause. A lot of companies appoint
somebody called menopause champions.
So somebody that you can go to and talk about your menopause
which may not be your line management, might be somebody
else within the company and may not be of management level, but
somebody that could that you can go to and support and talk about
the different symptoms and how you can help and support each
other. I think flexible working is a
big thing. It's you know, again, since
lockdown, lots of the younger generation are are going towards
this more flexible work because it fits in around their family
lives. If it's good enough for them,
it's good enough for us to. You know, if you've got poor
sleep and you've been awake all night, you don't fall asleep
till 5:00 in the morning. You long goes off at six, you're
not going to function at work. So why make women go into work
at 9:00 if they're not functioning or longer breaks?
You know, going to the morning, work from home in the evening.
Just be more flexible to fit in around.
There's there's no point in staying at work till 5:00,
staring at the screen. If you're not being productive.
You'd be better to have a longer lunch break and then work later
into the evening. You're just sitting around your
symptoms. We're APM, the only chartered
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apm.org.uk. Because when projects succeed,
society benefits. Is there anything specifically
about project work? I guess this is for Joe and
Rachel that that it's trickier to manage when it comes to sort
of also living with menopausal symptoms.
So I'm thinking about tight deadlines.
I'm thinking that I think there is very much a culture within
the project profession, certainly when I've interviewed
people, that you have to be not necessarily extroverted, but
you're the one in front of the client.
You have to have a lot of self-confidence.
There's a lot of presentation being the one to fix things.
Is there anything tricky? About project work that has been
a challenge or that you've found good ways of dealing with.
I think the confidence issue is is a challenge and I think
another thing with project work, certainly sort of where I am, I
guess I do get to work flexibly, but I'm on the client side.
I know if I was not on the client side I would probably be
expected to be in the office. Much more on site particularly
because it's a construction project there would be that but
also projects are not often that long in nature.
You may be moving on. So therefore you're then going
back and if you know Ali mentioning symptoms can go on
for you know seven years on average.
So you're then having to say all against somebody else.
So it's it's that that you with projects and and Pete the churn
of people on projects, a lot of people don't stay on big
projects. More than a couple of years.
So you were often having to have the same conversation 18 months
later. And it said if you're expected
to go on site, which a lot of people are, unless you speak up
and then it's like, well, the spotlights on you, why are you
not doing that? Why did you get off the hook?
And that's not a comfortable conversation to have.
Is it sometimes because you don't want to be the one
standing out in the crowd of everyone else that's going on
site? But actually, sometimes you're
far too hot to put on all that like this.
Is it then just a matter of being brave and doing it and
having that conversation? It's also individual.
I felt at times when I was going through it, a lack of confidence
and a poor night's sleep. Everything else.
I was probably the worst person to advocate for myself because I
probably would have chewed the head off and, you know, just
have pure tiredness. So I think that's why it's not
just menopausal or postmenopausal women.
We all have to advocate because you know, we're all going to go
through it collectively because it's it's not, you're not always
in the best position. On that, with the greatest
amount of confidence to speak up for yourself in that moment when
you're challenged and you've got, you know, 12 men looking at
you and the only person in the room or any woman in the room,
it's a little bit like, oh, I don't really want to tell you
all of that right now. What?
Advice would you give to If you're in a project and a
project manager or team leader wants to do the right thing and
is perhaps thinking about these issues for the first time, and
Rachel, I've asked them to think about it.
What is helpful for them to do? What is it about creating a
particular kind of culture? Is it about the practical
things? Is it about the language you use
when talking about it? I think it's down to company
culture and about talking about all sorts of medical health
issues from mental well-being. So if we keep bringing all of
these up, I think it's about culture.
There's practical things here on the mine.
In every ladies toilets there's sanitary wear available, a
variety to you. So if you have an accident you
don't have to worry and go searching for another female to
ask if she's got anything. It's there.
Simple little hacks like that from a practical perspective,
but ultimately it's culture so that you you feel you can speak
up without being embarrassed about something.
That actually is very normal. What about you, Joe?
I was just reflecting on this. I have something called a
Wellness action plan, which I share with people I work with
closely, which when I'm well, this is what I look like and
this is how I will work. But if if there are things when
I'm not well. And Rachel, you were just saying
that when you've had no sleep and you're feeling super
perimenopause or menopause or you're not your best advocate,
sometimes you can't see it yourself.
When you're in the thick of it. I get really, really angry and
get really, really hot angry and confused and it just takes them
to kind of. There's a couple of phrases that
I have that I use that to say, Joe, are you feeling OK today?
And I know when they say that, but I think, oh, hang on,
they've noticed that something different about me.
Maybe I'm not being myself, but I think that that that has taken
a lot for me to put myself out there and say here's what I look
like when I'm well, here's what I look like when things may not
be going as well. But want you to help me either
recognise that I'm not doing as well because sometimes you just
can't see it, but also help me get better.
And that's something that's really personal to me.
But I do think that everyone should kind of consider what
they look like when they're, you know, at their 90% laziness.
And then when they're kind of sliding down and thinking, oh,
I'm really tired, I've got a newborn baby or I've not been,
you know, sleeping very well, etcetera.
I think there's lots of things that we can all learn from this
because as we've all said I think previously, we're here
until we're at least 60-7 at the moment working.
We might as well kind of make our time at work reasonably
enjoyable or livable while we're here.
I think that's really important. And is there any advice you
would give to people who are in the senior positions at work
about making sure that they do things the right way and that
they support women in the right way?
Yeah, I just. Think it's being flexible and
being understanding really. And we all know the NHS is very
overstretched at the moment and it's actually quite hard to get
a GP appointment. So a lot of GP surgeries only
offer appointments on the day. You can't have to camp book
appointments anymore. And so that might be a day that
you're at work. So you can't necessarily book a
day's holiday for your appointment.
So if you do need to go and see a menopause specialist, then
make sure it's and it's in work time.
It might not be you doing it on purpose, it might be that you
that is the only appointment that you can get.
A lot of GP surgeries do have. And somebody that specialises
within their surgery as well, you know a nurse practitioner or
GP who has a special interest in manifest and they may be part
time, they may only work certain days.
So it might be that you can only get an appointment on a
particular day and it might be a day that you're at work.
So it's just allowing women to be flexible and access the right
care and treatment so that they can get the the correct help and
advice and and to help them to function long term.
Just thinking about the future and project work.
I guess it's for you again for Joe and Rachel about it.
Could things still be done in a better way when it comes to
project work that means that menopausal women can thrive?
There's definitely room for improvement.
I mean, if you about how much effort is made to support
pregnant women, they're going through a tough time, but
there's a room that they can go and rest in.
There's much more flexibility allowed.
All right. You could argue it's a short
period, but even when they come back, as mentioned, sleepless
nights. So I think there's a lot more
room. But I think one of the biggest
things is to make sure that you retain women.
At the moment they're not retain women and those women who can
then help the next generation. And advocate they're losing
them. Yeah, without those people then
you would each generation is just going to come up and only
chip away a little bit. Do you feel sensitive kind of
responsibility to be role models to the women beneath you?
Because you mean Rachel, you talked about your mum and saying
she never talks about it and perhaps this generational is the
one that is can talk about it at work.
Do you ever feel that sense of, you know, you're kind of
changing things need to be seen to be doing this for the women
coming up, you know, underneath you?
Definitely. If if I don't speak up, then you
know the generation, but behind won't.
You know, we've got, we've just got to have that conversation
because as we've discussed, I'm going to be here till I'm 67.
That's a long time. You got to try and make it
easier for yourself and there are women in generations ahead
who made other things for us easier.
So if I can do my little bit, I will do, you know, 100 percent,
100%. It's it's so important, isn't
it, to lift as you climb, to make sure that as you're
advancing in your career or in in your menopause that everyone
else understands it and that they have space to kind of
follow behind you. I think it's just really, really
important. Any last things you want to pass
on to listeners or anything? Any advice you'd give that we
haven't had a chance to kind of mention, I think Rachel said
earlier about journaling everything.
I think even if you're not thinking you're perimenopausal
or even if you're a woman who is having regular periods, journal
or your symptoms and get to know your own cycle, how you work,
what your peaks and troughs are. Because I think that that will
help no end. Not just for when you hit the
perimenopause and the menopause, but it actually help you right
now to know that maybe having a big presentation the day before
your period is due, that may not work for you.
But if you can flex around that because actually you you aren't
feeling your best physically and probably mentally as well.
So why not make it easier for ourselves in knowing who what we
are, who what our bodies are doing to us and our minds, so
that we can then present ourselves in a better light at
work when we need to? Rachel, anything you'd like to
add? I just say, you know, to women
of all ages, learn about the menopause, understand what
what's coming at the moment. Most of us just hear about hot
flushes, really. And then there's a whole raft of
other symptoms. Also, I understand that people
from different ethnic backgrounds experience different
symptoms. So I understand hot flushes and
impact Caucasian women more. So you know, learn about it so
that when it comes, you've got an idea that it's.
What's happening to you? Ali, anything you'd like to add
everything? Is don't suffer in silence
really. You know everybody's menopause
is quite different and if all your friends appear to self with
menopause and you're struggling and don't feel ashamed, it
doesn't mean that you're a failure.
It just means that you you have different symptoms to your
friends. And there is always treatment
options are available to all women whether it be HMRC or
other medication or diet and lifestyle as well.
This is a chance to to look at the triggers that being observed
and often alcohol, caffeine, things like that can bring on
hot flushes. So just be aware of your.
Person has been aware of the triggers and get the right
medical help and advice. Are there any resources you'd
recommend? Any books or podcasts or
anything that you would point women to to want to educate
themselves about this or or find some help?
I really recommend Doctor Louise Newsome's website, which is
called Balance. I find it's a really big kind of
treasure trove of information. And if I think people want to
find out a bit more about menopause and perimenopause, she
did a podcast with James Smith who's like a personal trainer,
about a year or so ago. I did kind of get my line
manager to listen to that because James Smith is a very
alpha male, but he completely kind of goal perimenopause and
menopause. And for me, that was quite
revolutionary and groundbreaking because he's so alpha male and
and young and actually was thinking about perimenopause and
menopause and your exercise and diet and stress and how that
impacts everything. And I'm Ali, obviously your next
phone in this field. How can people find out about
you and the resources available to them?
So like in this course, simply menopausal.
So I have my own website simplymenopausal.co.uk.
There's lots of information on there and you can also follow me
on social media. I've got Facebook group called
the Simple Menopausal Community which is a safe space that just
has women in there. And obviously I don't give
medical advice on social media, but it's it's nice to help
support each other and so you don't feel alone.
And if you are in a workplace where you're not supportive, at
least you can get support from other women in a similar
situations. And I also do lots of stuff on
Instagram and Facebook. Generally as well.
And I've also got something called the Mighty Networks which
is more of a corporate type platform which is myself and
Cathie Hasty who is the HR consultant that together we give
lots of corporate help and advice to help and support women
in the workplace is called It's Mighty Networks and it's called
Menopause working with simply menopause.
Also lots of device on there as well.
OK. Brilliant.
Thank you and and and finally, Rachel, any books or podcasts or
resources that you've been helpful for you?
Davina McCall, She has done a lot with it.
I can't remember the name of the doctor that has done a lot of
her Instagram posts recently and.
Yeah. It's just it's just very human.
Discussing how difficult things are and what happens, I found
that very relatable. I think we've covered a lot of
ground here. And so nice to hear that you're
experiencing what all that person's been sounds pretty
tricky and challenging, but the fact that you feel supported and
have been treated and in the right way and being brave enough
really to talk about this openly is, is really a great thing to
hear. So I want to thank you again for
your time and uh, wish you best of luck with everything and
then, yeah, thank you again. Thank you.
My pleasure. Thank you.
Thank you for inviting me. Thanks again to Rachel, Joe, and
Annie for joining us, and to you for listening to the APM
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