1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,300 Welcome to the APM podcast, brought to you by the 2 00:00:06,300 --> 00:00:08,900 Association for project management, the charter body for 3 00:00:08,900 --> 00:00:11,700 the project profession. In this episode. 4 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,800 We look back on 20/20 and reflect on some key project 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,300 management lessons from a turbulent nine months soon. 6 00:00:18,300 --> 00:00:21,300 After the first UK lockdown in March, we found that this 7 00:00:21,300 --> 00:00:24,800 podcast to share the stories of project professionals who are 8 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,700 managing adapting and pivoting their projects to meet the 9 00:00:27,700 --> 00:00:29,500 demands of the covid-19 pandemic. 10 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,300 Because series want crisis talks in each episode was presented by 11 00:00:34,300 --> 00:00:36,600 project journal editor, Emma DaVita. 12 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,300 I hope was that we'd end up with the valuable resource during a 13 00:00:40,300 --> 00:00:43,200 time of Crisis for project professionals who are doing 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,100 their best to navigate a situation. 15 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,100 The almost none of us had imagined happening. 16 00:00:48,300 --> 00:00:50,700 What we ended up with was a Chronicle of work and life 17 00:00:50,700 --> 00:00:53,400 through the covid. Pandemic, the six people, we 18 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:55,800 interview for the podcast structures honestly and openly 19 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,900 about the challenges they faced and the huge lessons. 20 00:00:58,900 --> 00:00:59,700 They were learning along the way. 21 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,800 The pandemic in Jaws, but the advice given in the crisis talks 22 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,000 podcast will be relevant way past 2020. 23 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,800 In this episode. We've picked out the best in 24 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:11,600 nuggets of wisdom. In the first series of this 25 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:15,400 podcast topics ranging from mental health, to delivering to 26 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:23,300 seemingly impossible targets. To start with. 27 00:01:23,300 --> 00:01:25,600 I'm going to take you back to April, probably feels like a 28 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,900 lifetime ago. In episode 1 of Crisis, talks 29 00:01:28,900 --> 00:01:30,800 podcast. Host Emma, interviewed, Lizzie 30 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:33,300 Meadows, a project manager at the quad room Institute for 31 00:01:33,308 --> 00:01:36,600 bioscience. Her biorepository project went 32 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,500 live, just as coronavirus, hit the UK. 33 00:01:38,500 --> 00:01:42,100 The project has since been able to provide crucial resource and 34 00:01:42,100 --> 00:01:44,100 support to the covid-19. Genomics. 35 00:01:44,100 --> 00:01:47,700 UK Consortium. Lizzie's project to launch an 36 00:01:47,700 --> 00:01:49,500 electronic platform to manage. Human. 37 00:01:49,500 --> 00:01:52,300 Tissue samples in collaboration with Norfolk and Norwich 38 00:01:52,300 --> 00:01:56,300 University Hospital NHS and the University of East Anglia went 39 00:01:56,300 --> 00:01:58,700 live on Monday. The 23rd of March the day, the 40 00:01:58,700 --> 00:02:02,000 UK went into lockdown and everyone's World turned upside 41 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,700 down. She described the Monumental 42 00:02:04,700 --> 00:02:07,500 effort of her team members and their dedication to getting the 43 00:02:07,500 --> 00:02:10,600 project over the line when external events of an unforeseen 44 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,900 magnitude threatened to derail everything as a last-minute, 45 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,800 what we didn't envisage with it was that coronavirus would come 46 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:23,200 up and hitters so quickly, blind sizes that we actually had. 47 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,400 You know, I'm so glad that we had our, you know, very rigorous 48 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,900 approach to our raid log that we had also had a very robust, very 49 00:02:31,900 --> 00:02:36,500 thorough robust approach. To contingencies and resilience 50 00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:41,300 planning and that, you know, I felt that people were confidence 51 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,900 in in that knowledge of knowing what the Alternatives were. 52 00:02:44,900 --> 00:02:46,500 What name, what the contingencies were. 53 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:52,000 So when I said jump they didn't just look at me that and say, 54 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,700 okay. They said how high and we got 55 00:02:54,700 --> 00:02:58,600 that we got that from our you know, biorepository team. 56 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:04,800 We got up from the end and then ICT team and And also laterally 57 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:09,800 as we went live from the research nurse who know was we 58 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:14,500 would have been quite happy to work from home, but because her 59 00:03:14,500 --> 00:03:19,500 swivel token wasn't working. She made her way into the Bob 60 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:21,500 Champion building. It was close, but she got 61 00:03:21,500 --> 00:03:24,000 special dispensation to she came in. 62 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,500 And that first Monday morning, when we went live. 63 00:03:27,500 --> 00:03:29,900 She was there for all the hand holding sessions. 64 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:34,600 The team demonstrated, you know, everybody was So committed to 65 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,100 this going live, you know, we had friends and allies in place 66 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,800 the shared vision and commitment success. 67 00:03:41,100 --> 00:03:44,500 And boy, did that underpin everything? 68 00:03:45,300 --> 00:03:48,400 Is he also spoke about her view. The project management style is 69 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:50,400 highly personalized. Each individual. 70 00:03:51,300 --> 00:03:53,000 She also explained her willingness to do things 71 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:55,200 differently to meet changing circumstances. 72 00:03:55,700 --> 00:03:59,000 She and her team had to think on their feet, like, never before 73 00:03:59,900 --> 00:04:02,300 she admitted the getting things done required her to be a bit 74 00:04:02,300 --> 00:04:05,000 unconventional. This reflects the changing 75 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,800 profile of the project. Professional a Core theme of the 76 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,200 past few months. Gone are the days where the 77 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,900 project manager can, simply follow process in a systematic 78 00:04:12,900 --> 00:04:15,400 way. Modern project professionals are 79 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,200 Dynamic willing to adapt and comfortable with navigating 80 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,100 unexpected crises. It's taking that flexible 81 00:04:22,100 --> 00:04:26,200 approach to project managing being aware that sometimes you 82 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,800 have to do what it takes to get the work done. 83 00:04:29,100 --> 00:04:32,000 Bring an agile approach. It's being able to think. 84 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,200 We'll what if And again, it comes back down to fundamentals 85 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:40,800 of planning having assumptions having scenarios and just 86 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:42,700 thinking you know, what if that happens. 87 00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:46,200 But a lot of it I think is you know project management can also 88 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:50,200 be a very individual approach. You can be very personal if if 89 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,500 that makes sense. My way of doing it might be very 90 00:04:53,500 --> 00:04:57,400 different to someone else but I think it was being able to think 91 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:02,100 on our feet and that that really did come down to me thinking on 92 00:05:02,100 --> 00:05:04,900 my feet and say, no, this This, we are going to do it this way 93 00:05:04,900 --> 00:05:07,100 and luckily having the commitment and the support from 94 00:05:07,100 --> 00:05:11,300 the team to say, yeah, and being probably don't know. 95 00:05:11,300 --> 00:05:14,800 I've been unconventional. Is that the right word thinking 96 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,200 at 8:15 at night? How am I going to get this to go 97 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,200 live? I'll just email somebody who 98 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,700 might be able to help and then and where we are now then. 99 00:05:24,700 --> 00:05:26,500 Also, beginning to think, hang on a minute. 100 00:05:26,700 --> 00:05:30,800 We've got this resource. How can this add value to know 101 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:32,800 what the wider teams are trying to do? 102 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,500 Sonia Sharma, head of planning and corporate pmo, a broadcaster 103 00:05:36,500 --> 00:05:39,600 channel for was, someone working in a completely different sector 104 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,000 of the economy and a highly ambitious project manager. 105 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,800 Prior to lock down in March Sonia, been working on building 106 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,100 up the Enterprise's pmo while in February channel for 107 00:05:49,100 --> 00:05:51,500 kick-started a significant transformation program. 108 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,400 When the pandemic hit the organization experienced a 109 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,500 chaotic, few weeks with staff. Unsure, how to react The Wider 110 00:05:59,500 --> 00:06:02,600 picture for the broadcaster. Look challenging major events, 111 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,300 such as the Paralympics for Spohn to leaving. 112 00:06:04,300 --> 00:06:07,200 Channel for facing a revenue, hit the task of rescheduling 113 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,600 through the summer. After difficult few weeks, Sonia 114 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,300 found, that staff managed to adapt, effectively to new ways 115 00:06:13,300 --> 00:06:16,000 of working. She related to the podcast, how 116 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,100 her team approach, the prioritization of their 117 00:06:18,100 --> 00:06:21,600 portfolio shift in the pace of work, the challenges of a 118 00:06:21,608 --> 00:06:25,600 virtual Workforce and more through the crisis Sonia has 119 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,600 kept a focus on achieving a lien State and maintaining it at the 120 00:06:28,608 --> 00:06:31,100 broadcaster with senior Executives growing in their 121 00:06:31,100 --> 00:06:33,700 awareness of the importance of project management. 122 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,300 Like many project professionals have spoken to the APM podcast. 123 00:06:37,900 --> 00:06:40,900 Sonia told us that the pandemic was accelerating changes within 124 00:06:40,900 --> 00:06:44,000 the organization that would help Propel project management 125 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,000 upwards and outwards. The first couple of weeks. 126 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:51,400 We really quite chaotic. So people weren't really sure 127 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,100 what to do. So there was a sort of period of 128 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,000 do. We keep doing what we were doing 129 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,100 before or you know, how do we adjust? 130 00:06:58,100 --> 00:07:05,400 So I think it took about a week or so to get into some Some form 131 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,700 of order. And actually, what we did is use 132 00:07:08,700 --> 00:07:13,500 the transformation director and her experience of working with 133 00:07:13,500 --> 00:07:16,700 crisis situations and very, very quickly within a week. 134 00:07:16,700 --> 00:07:20,000 Actually. We set up some covid-19 135 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,200 governance. So we got even running now for 136 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,700 work streams. People Finance procurement and 137 00:07:27,700 --> 00:07:31,200 Tekken projects, and we kick them off within a week twice a 138 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,700 week. So eight calls in a week. 139 00:07:34,100 --> 00:07:37,900 For an hour with a quite a clear agenda in terms of what we were 140 00:07:37,900 --> 00:07:40,900 trying to achieve within each one and who was going to be 141 00:07:40,900 --> 00:07:43,400 involved in that and then that governance started running. 142 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,400 And then alongside that there was some reporting to the exact 143 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:50,200 that went up to help and enable them with their decision-making. 144 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,200 So I think that was really key at that time a crisis. 145 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,900 So there was a lot of work that was being done. 146 00:07:55,900 --> 00:07:58,400 Then I think the other thing we had to do was really look at 147 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:02,800 then our priorities and our portfolio and then start to 148 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,700 think about how do we actually To manage that Hannah Gledhill, 149 00:08:06,700 --> 00:08:09,100 senior project manager, a British chocolatier Hotel 150 00:08:09,100 --> 00:08:12,000 Chocolat meanwhile shared her experience of working in a 151 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,400 retail environment. One of the hardest-hit sectors 152 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,000 of UK business. The British chocolatier has a 153 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,200 small project team focused primarily and product 154 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,600 development. Just prior to lock down the 155 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:24,300 hotel. Shakalaka had begun a process of 156 00:08:24,300 --> 00:08:26,700 transformation. Working closely with the Kaizen 157 00:08:26,700 --> 00:08:29,700 Institute, to foster a culture of continuous Improvement and 158 00:08:29,700 --> 00:08:33,100 greater efficiency that commitment to transformation is 159 00:08:33,100 --> 00:08:36,200 continued throughout lockdown and Beyond despite the mounting 160 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:40,400 challenges as Hannah explained. Hotels, chocolate experience the 161 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,200 same initial challenges as many businesses unfamiliarity with 162 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,700 Virtual Technology and practices and a period of uncertainty 163 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,200 around which projects will be affected and how? 164 00:08:50,900 --> 00:08:54,800 However, as Hannah explained the team was already geared up to go 165 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:57,600 through an element of pain in her own words, as it kick 166 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,200 started, the Kaizen Transformations become a Slicker 167 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,700 operation. They hadn't bargained on a 168 00:09:02,708 --> 00:09:06,200 pandemic perhaps but the period of uncertainty has provided a 169 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:10,200 test of their new culture. We're trying out different ways 170 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,500 of tracking projects. If you like. 171 00:09:12,500 --> 00:09:15,800 So the Kaizen principle that we agreed. 172 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,500 The beginning of the year was that we would have almost a 173 00:09:18,500 --> 00:09:22,100 project control room, a physical space and everyone had to be 174 00:09:22,100 --> 00:09:25,200 physically present. This was a place that we could 175 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,800 track the status of our projects, almost like a NASA 176 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,000 control room. So you could all you could walk 177 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,400 into that room. And you could know the status of 178 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,600 of your project just by looking at the wall. 179 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:38,600 We can't do that now. So what we've done is, we've 180 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,000 created a virtual project control room through Trello. 181 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:48,100 So Trello is that an online app? Essentially a place to log lists 182 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,600 of activities. So we log all the activities to 183 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,000 needed to place this week and the following week and it's 184 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,600 accessible by all the development team. 185 00:09:57,700 --> 00:10:01,400 So we encourage individuals to go into the Trello board. 186 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,200 To update their actions. That's the way that we're trying 187 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,700 to keep control of a number of projects at the moment that 188 00:10:09,700 --> 00:10:12,800 paired with with some other tools that we're developing with 189 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:14,700 guys. And I guess the challenge we're 190 00:10:14,700 --> 00:10:17,900 facing at the moment is we're trying to develop tools whilst 191 00:10:17,900 --> 00:10:22,200 trying to run live projects all Hilton program director 192 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,800 management and development company, Mott, MacDonald lives 193 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,800 in, Singapore and oversees the delivery of 13. 194 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,500 Future cities projects, across nine cities in six countries. 195 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,300 Over southeast Asia. The program aims to promote 196 00:10:35,300 --> 00:10:38,300 inclusive, and sustainable, economic growth, full and 197 00:10:38,300 --> 00:10:41,300 productive, employment, and decent work for all it. 198 00:10:41,300 --> 00:10:44,600 Prioritizes the needs of girls women and the most excluded 199 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,900 people in these communities and is aligned to the un's 17, 200 00:10:47,900 --> 00:10:51,800 sustainable development goals. Poor begun work on the program 201 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,600 when it kicked off in, 2019 has carried on leading it through 202 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,300 the covid-19 crisis. While Singapore has been locked 203 00:10:57,300 --> 00:11:01,100 down and is local teams in the Philippines Myanmar, Vietnam. 204 00:11:01,100 --> 00:11:05,200 Malaysia Thailand and Indonesia have been contending with the 205 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:09,700 pandemic, the 13 projects range from a smart ticketing transport 206 00:11:09,700 --> 00:11:11,400 system. In Ho Chi Minh City to 207 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,000 earthquake and tsunami warning system in Surabaya. 208 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:17,000 Paul related, the challenges of managing the program. 209 00:11:17,900 --> 00:11:21,200 As the world heads towards New Normal, how being an expat has 210 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,800 made him more resilient to the trials with the covid crisis, 211 00:11:23,900 --> 00:11:26,300 the trick to getting the best out of people. 212 00:11:26,300 --> 00:11:29,100 He said, was simply to learn to listen to them. 213 00:11:30,300 --> 00:11:33,200 It's completely about people, manager is about getting the 214 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:36,700 best out of people, but equally you avoiding risks by getting 215 00:11:36,700 --> 00:11:39,200 the best out of people by understanding what's going on 216 00:11:39,500 --> 00:11:42,800 listening. And a lot of those skills, the 217 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,900 tools and the harder things program management risk, sort of 218 00:11:46,900 --> 00:11:49,600 schedule management, risk management, change management. 219 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,300 They're all necessary to keep it all tidy in the background, but 220 00:11:53,300 --> 00:11:57,900 they're not, I wouldn't say they're the the underlying good 221 00:11:57,900 --> 00:12:00,800 stuff that's required to Seed really. 222 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,300 I think project manager. It's quite an interesting 223 00:12:04,300 --> 00:12:08,600 discipline because those who are experienced often anchor back to 224 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,100 these skills. And those who are inexperienced 225 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,900 often believe that the tools will save the day and get them 226 00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:17,100 through their problems. So you can quite easily reflect 227 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:21,100 on where success lies. And I think that reflecting on 228 00:12:21,100 --> 00:12:23,800 it is is of is a key learning processes. 229 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,800 Is why a person a believer that, you know, you need to be 230 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,900 constantly fresh and constantly learning and refresh yourself. 231 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,200 I don't think leadership is a, is a Inherited property. 232 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:37,100 It's a thing that you have to work on all the time and keep 233 00:12:37,100 --> 00:12:40,700 reminding yourself of and the techniques you use. 234 00:12:40,700 --> 00:12:44,200 So and a lot of those techniques are about managing perhaps your 235 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:48,200 own personal mood because it is a people and sort of interaction 236 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:49,400 skills that you're off to deploying. 237 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,700 It's about managing how you're coming across, how your 238 00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:55,900 temperaments is about what your mood inside is stuff. 239 00:12:56,900 --> 00:12:59,900 Under Hickson the project manager at Baalbek a specialist 240 00:12:59,900 --> 00:13:02,900 in the repair strengthening refurbishment and protection of 241 00:13:02,900 --> 00:13:06,000 buildings and civil structures is an expert in both project 242 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,400 management and mental health. He manages the successful 243 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,400 delivery of infrastructure projects including at the time 244 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,600 of recording. Our interview Palatine Road 245 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,800 undertaken on behalf of Highways England. 246 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,700 The project involves significant temporary propping to facilitate 247 00:13:20,700 --> 00:13:24,800 critical repairs to 15 peers. The carry both carriageways of 248 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,000 the M60. Motorway. 249 00:13:26,300 --> 00:13:29,700 Across the river mersey in Greater Manchester, but Andrew 250 00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:32,300 is also a key Mountaineer and founder of the black dog 251 00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:35,600 Outdoors mental health charity, which promotes the benefits of 252 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,700 outdoor recreation and mental well-being. 253 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:40,700 In his interview with the APM podcast. 254 00:13:40,700 --> 00:13:42,700 He explained why now more than ever. 255 00:13:42,900 --> 00:13:45,900 It's important to spend time in nature and to allow your mind to 256 00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:47,900 wander. Hopefully, this doesn't come 257 00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:52,200 across as preacher because, you know, it's easy to say hard to 258 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,500 do sometimes, but I definitely recommend that people. 259 00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:58,000 People get that like that work-life balance, right, 260 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,100 especially spending time at home, you know, just just half 261 00:14:01,100 --> 00:14:04,000 an hour of exercise. A day can have a massive effect 262 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,100 on your well-being, her positively and it doesn't have 263 00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:09,500 to be high in perhaps our insurance you To go out running 264 00:14:09,700 --> 00:14:13,700 with, we're not all athletes, but had it out for a steady work 265 00:14:13,700 --> 00:14:17,200 and you in your local area. So it's a great way to unwind 266 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,900 and leave your phone at home and just let your mind wander. 267 00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:24,400 There's also exercises you could do, like, what, yoga, or even 268 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,400 coloring in her great for for just checking your mind 269 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,100 elsewhere. I know that a number of people 270 00:14:30,100 --> 00:14:33,400 that have been contacts with, they've they're actually 271 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,500 exercising when ordinarily big to be in a commute to work. 272 00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:38,600 So if they're at home, the distinguished. 273 00:14:38,700 --> 00:14:40,600 Akin to a routine, the still getting up early. 274 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,400 But instead of sitting in the in the car behind the wheel, they 275 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,200 are going up some morning exercise, which is a great idea. 276 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,000 And I think, another thing that I would recommend is if you've 277 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,600 got children at home and again, it easier said, than done, block 278 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,300 out and out in the day, and spend some real quality time, 279 00:14:55,300 --> 00:14:57,900 because there's the be stresses in the back of your mind that 280 00:14:58,000 --> 00:14:59,900 you're not home, and your children, want your attention 281 00:14:59,900 --> 00:15:03,300 and you should give it to them. Yeah, why not be strict about 282 00:15:03,300 --> 00:15:05,700 it. We all need, we all need our own 283 00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:08,200 time. Work work can still happen. 284 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,900 Would all work. More flexibly now, so just just 285 00:15:10,900 --> 00:15:13,300 just find a different way of working fine to find a way of 286 00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:16,500 introducing, some, some quality family time in the day. 287 00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:19,500 That means that that means doing a little bit more at night when 288 00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:22,200 the children are asleep. Well, try and make it happen. 289 00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:25,500 Just being able to think about the needs of others and ever bit 290 00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:29,500 more empathy, and allow the teacher to leave work, early to 291 00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:32,400 take work home and spend some time with their families up that 292 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:37,100 I think is important in in, you're just building that trust 293 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:39,300 and getting the best out of Of them as well. 294 00:15:39,300 --> 00:15:42,500 He'll keep people happy less stressed. 295 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:47,600 It's a really positive thing. So, yeah, the I'm quite quite 296 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,400 flexible with a sightseeing. If this is work that can do from 297 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,000 home. I don't need them to travel down 298 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,600 the motorway to sit in an office. 299 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,900 You know, it's a song as that in contacts and they getting on 300 00:15:56,900 --> 00:15:59,400 with what they need to do is dump for more than happy for 301 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,800 people to work flexibly. Rounding off the crisis. 302 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,900 Talk series was an interview with Joanna Roland director of 303 00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:09,700 hmrc's covid-19 Response Unit, which is responsible for the 304 00:16:09,700 --> 00:16:11,900 Department's strategic approach to the pandemic. 305 00:16:11,900 --> 00:16:15,600 Joanna, is a senior responsible officer in charge of delivering 306 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,000 the Chancellor's Flagship economic interventions. 307 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,800 The job retention and self-employment Income Support 308 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,600 schemes as well as the eat out to help out and job retention 309 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,300 bonus schemes. Joanna is also the head of the 310 00:16:27,300 --> 00:16:30,200 project delivery profession for hmrc and a fellow of a p.m. 311 00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:33,000 She's been at the heart of the government's response to the 312 00:16:33,008 --> 00:16:36,000 pandemic and in her interview with the APM podcast, you 313 00:16:36,008 --> 00:16:37,800 explain the value of controlled yet. 314 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,400 Adaptive governance to carry her team through the crisis phase of 315 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:46,600 the initial covid response. There were a few elements in the 316 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,700 early days. That was certainly crisis 317 00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:53,500 management. But I think the first thing I 318 00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:57,400 recognize coming into the real was actually this was going to 319 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,800 stay with us for quite a while and in a way. 320 00:17:00,900 --> 00:17:03,600 The last thing we needed was Crisis management. 321 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:08,200 And what instead what we needed was very controlled leadership 322 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:11,700 and management of this being a project person through. 323 00:17:11,700 --> 00:17:13,700 And through, I love a bit of governance. 324 00:17:13,900 --> 00:17:16,200 We all do governance is your best friend. 325 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,900 It keeps you in control. So one of the first jobs of that 326 00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:25,500 Friday, was to set up the governance structures both for 327 00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:31,200 the projects, but also the wider organization to make sure Sure 328 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,700 that we could coordinate this in a way that was very controlled 329 00:17:35,700 --> 00:17:40,200 and not reactive or crisis management. 330 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,400 Can sometimes mean that you know, you're all headless 331 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:48,500 chickens and and and high octane and and that generally doesn't 332 00:17:48,500 --> 00:17:51,500 drive the best decision making that said, the governance was 333 00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:56,600 kept light touch. So it was really important, but 334 00:17:56,700 --> 00:18:02,200 neither was there time for for our meetings, so, I needed to 335 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:06,200 put in place the governance structure that was able to be 336 00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:12,100 highly adaptive really, really efficient fairly light touch but 337 00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:16,900 have a iron grip of control around our projects and 338 00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:20,100 responses. Joanna, also shared her approach 339 00:18:20,100 --> 00:18:22,900 to Bringing together a wide array of Specialists, dubbed 340 00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:25,200 accountable, owners and empowering them to make 341 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,000 decisions for the project. One of her, long-term Ambitions 342 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,400 is to establish a project structure that transcends 343 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,500 boundaries. These and retained a razor sharp 344 00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:35,600 focus on Simplicity to keep Minds focused on the core 345 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:37,700 concept. Underpinning, the project and 346 00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:39,400 ambition. She was able to realize with 347 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,500 this project. She was Keen to to extol The 348 00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:45,500 Importance of Being assertive to prevent distractions from taking 349 00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:49,100 over. There were three things that 350 00:18:49,100 --> 00:18:53,200 were very deliberate choices in those early days. 351 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:59,200 So the first was to set up what I call a hub-and-spoke model. 352 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:04,500 And this is where I literally grabbed from all corners of 353 00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:06,900 hmrc. Just a handful. 354 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:12,300 I think no more than about 10 or 15 project people to run the 355 00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:16,200 central project for seedrs. And then the equivalent for 356 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,700 self-employment. But then we reached out across 357 00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:24,700 hmrc to get what I called accountable owners for all the 358 00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:28,000 different specialisms. So you'd get somebody who 359 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,600 specialized in compliance. You'd someone who specialized in 360 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,800 operating, our contact centers. You'd get a lawyer. 361 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,500 You'd have obviously, they're very important and very talented 362 00:19:38,500 --> 00:19:41,300 digital teams. All of those accountable owners, 363 00:19:41,300 --> 00:19:46,200 were were responsible for doing their bit completely empowered. 364 00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:50,900 Be trusted but they could not make decisions anywhere other 365 00:19:50,900 --> 00:19:52,900 than, as part of that Central project. 366 00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:55,800 If they were designing an element, they would need to come 367 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,000 back to the project just to make sure it matches the other 368 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:00,500 elements. So that was the first thing, 369 00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:05,800 this Hub and spoke model where the people actually doing the 370 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,300 delivery. We're empowered, but the control 371 00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:11,000 remained with the central project. 372 00:20:11,300 --> 00:20:15,200 I'm a great believer that projects should transcend normal 373 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:20,000 structures and For not be pigeonholed into structures that 374 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,600 they should work across an organization, because that's 375 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,000 where you get the whole organization. 376 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,600 Partaking as head of project, profession for hmrc. 377 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,400 It's been a long-running ambition of mine to set up 378 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,700 projects in that way. And here was my chance. 379 00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:40,300 He was my opportunity, the, the other two elements to how we 380 00:20:40,300 --> 00:20:44,000 approach. This was the ruthlessly simple. 381 00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:46,700 That was actually a phrase coined by RC. 382 00:20:46,900 --> 00:20:51,400 EIEIO he was fantastic at keeping us, all on that 383 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:55,300 principle of ruthlessly simple. And it meant that we did not get 384 00:20:55,300 --> 00:21:00,300 scope creep. What we did notice is in the 385 00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:04,200 early days, when four weeks to set up a major 386 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,300 multibillion-pound scheme like this felt impossible, keeping. 387 00:21:08,300 --> 00:21:11,000 It ruthlessly simple was actually quite easy. 388 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:16,100 People got the concept as we started to sort of, you know, 389 00:21:16,100 --> 00:21:19,600 make a stand. In leaps and progress, that's 390 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,600 when people started to that sort of. 391 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,500 Can you just syndrome started to nip in Mark? 392 00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:29,400 And I had to be all over that. And actually that was our third 393 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,000 principle. You need to bulldoze out the way 394 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,300 the blockers sometimes, you know, it's a ask politely 395 00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:40,700 sometimes. It's actually just really quite 396 00:21:40,700 --> 00:21:45,800 assertive structures in place to make sure that you are not 397 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,700 letting anything. It distracts you from getting 398 00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:54,300 the job done. We hope you've enjoyed the 399 00:21:54,300 --> 00:21:55,600 advice. We've picked out for you in this 400 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,400 episode. Listen to The Crisis talk series 401 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,200 and full simply search for the APM podcast on your platform 402 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,800 choice. You can find us on Spotify Apple 403 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,100 Google and more will find plenty more content there to including 404 00:22:08,100 --> 00:22:10,200 our second series project innovators. 405 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,500 When we look at how project professionals doing things 406 00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:14,500 differently to meet the ever growing challenges and 407 00:22:14,500 --> 00:22:18,000 complexity of our changed world. This podcast has been brought to 408 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,500 you by APM the charter body. For the project profession more 409 00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:23,100 information on how to join a p.m. 410 00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:24,900 Is at 8 p.m. Org.uk.