Hey everybody, it's me Katie asaurus and welcome back to
infinite Quest. Before we begin this week's
episode Eric and I have a favor to ask all of you infinite Quest
started out as a weird experiment between two new
friends and we had no idea where it was going to lead.
This is a true story the week that we launched.
Infinite Quest 17 people listened to episode one and we
We're so excited that that many people wanted to listen to our
podcast. Last week we posted our episode
with M Schultz of and that's why we drink and in less than an
hour, 1700 people had listened to infant bust.
We are so humbled and we are going to cry now.
We are so humbled, and we are so grateful for the support of this
community. And it really is that we have
created a community of thousands of people who see the importance
and value of Mental Health. Advocacy and education.
Okay. So this is the part where we're
going to ask you for that favor. We need your help to spread the
word about infinite quest in podcast.
Lee and word of mouth is still an incredibly effective way of
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infinite Quest, probably going to cry when I say this next
part. But Eric and I are dangerously
close to being able to say that infinite Quest and educating and
advocating for mental health is our full-time job, that is an
extraordinary feeling and we feel so lucky.
And so Us to be here. So anything you can do to bring
more people to infinite quest to let people know that we exist.
We would be infinitely, infinitely grateful for the
help. And with that here's an episode
about sex by actually went to Juilliard for fully work so oh
really cool. I can also make it sound like
I'm walking down the stairs. I can make it sound like I'm
bored real quickly. This message came for you.
It's my middle finger is the audio medium so they can't see
that. I'm flipping you off, but I am.
Hi everybody. Welcome back to infinite class
time. Hideous, or I'm a goob.
And so, this week's episode is a continuation of the Kink
spectacular that we did earlier. If you have Listen to that
episode. You should because there's some
stances little prequel. Yeah.
We're going to say a lot of things like like we talked about
in the last episode and I don't. So if you don't know, if you
didn't listen to that one, they're going to be missing out.
But once again, we just wanted a very quickly very quickly, just
sort of put a little lead Baseball Hall of Fame astrak--.
If you are our parents, if you know, us in real life, or if
you're just frankly, uncomfortable, listening to
People talk about sex which is totally valid.
We're going to have a very Frank conversation about sex and kink
today. So if you don't want to listen
to that, go listen to the Nevermore episode again because
I'm real proud of that one. And there's just, there's no sex
now that now that not about a sex to be found, there was a
reason I didn't listen and there's no sex and ever more
cool. Yeah.
There's there is a swear in the next one.
But so is there really? There's a couple of squares.
Yeah but there's they're still there.
Implied sex, you're doing the the bridge certain.
I am thing where you consolidate all of it into one.
Yes, I'm waiting for episode 4 and then nothing but jizzing on
blankets far as the eye can see. But shocking amount of blankets
is to two wieners. Yes, lots of dings Lobby, snakey
wieners like a, like, a drain snake.
So anyway, mom if you're listening, maybe don't that's
all. Oh, that's all we wanted to say.
So anyways, I believe in the last episode we talked about
Samuel Hughes has five stages of Kink.
We did do that Kink Kink explosion.
Kink identity process, I guess which is one early encounters.
So that's generally. If they can just go ahead and
listen to the episode her. Well, I'm just gonna go back to
the last episode. We're not going to do it again.
Go, listen, we, that's how we get them for use.
We get them views. Okay cool.
But if early encounters a situation where the
self-evaluation finding others Exploration with others is
really good. Thanks.
There you go, feel very educated on Samuel Hughes now.
All right, fine. So, in that case, I'm just going
to continue right where we left off in the last episode.
Okay, in the last episode, where we talked about Kink you teaser
trailer, do you said that you wanted to bring up a whole new
topic? What was the topic that you
wanted to bring up? Well, so this is a kind of an
eye It's a video on Tick-Tock of its titled every podcast ever.
And it's a guy just saying this is really important to talk
about and I think it needs to be taught and nobody really talks
about it. So I'm really glad that we're
talking about it because I think nobody taught there's such a
stigma and you never actually says anything.
And so, every time I start talking, I'm secretly worried.
I feel bad. I've know exactly that video
that you're thinking about and I think about that today, and
thank you for sharing that with me, that being said, I want,
that's really important that we talk about that.
It's really when we talk about intersectionality and Um,
Synergy is just very just weird. It's these Converse, these
dialogues are just necessary. Oh yeah.
Absolutely well. So and at the very end the last
episode I brought up the fact that so I'ma switch which
basically means I get I enjoy being both dominant and
submissive depending on the the day sometimes at the same time,
sometimes at the same time, especially when it's with 288
see people, it's like two seconds of something to Second.
It gets rough. It gets rough.
Then I then I tighten your apron strap and it's just like a
switch. Excuse me, I didn't come here to
be personally, attacked my own podcast if you guys haven't seen
the video no we haven't released that video.
There is actual footage of Eric accidentally topping me during
the middle of what is not at all?
Supposed to be making bread, we're fucking this is we fight
me or doing an episode of ADHD kitchen, which is also something
that we haven't really said the public yet.
So surprised that's the thing. And he just he was like no put
your apron on better and it's just it got real hot.
This is very embarrassing. So anyways I planted the last
episode I talked about how when I'm submissive, it helps my ADHD
a lot because my brain completely shuts off and I have
relinquished control consensually in the scene.
And I don't have to decide, you know, where to put my arms
because they're restrained. I don't have to worry about what
I'm looking at because it can't see like I do I have to worry
about strange noises because I can't hear sensory.
Deprivation is a enjoy being topping.
Being dominant also very much helps my ADHD.
And why? That is I have no, I have some
thoughts, but I don't know, excited.
I feel like you're going to have a podcast break.
I might have a by Gasper. I really thought I was gonna
have a podcast breakthrough last time and I didn't.
So I'm owed. So I'm excited.
Gotcha, cool. Well, so, It helped beings being
dominant helps my ADHD. Because my again, I don't like I
feel bad bringing this up because I'm not going to give
some great but perhaps because my motivations are not at all.
In question, I am not wondering what I should be doing.
Like I'm not thinking like oh we shouldn't be doing this, we
should be so doing something else or I have work to do or
that kind of thing. I am only doing service to you.
I'm trying to give you the best experience possible and the
Better. I know you and know your Kink
stuff, your kinks I guess would be the noun form of that the
more clear in my head, what I can be doing and I get into sort
of like a honestly, like an artistic Flow State.
Where like, I mean, you are an artist an artiste if you will
well, like, you know, if you, if, if an art, it's a painter's
doing a painting, and they put ass like an abstract painting,
put a splash of red somewhere, like, it's, they probably
weren't just disrespecting. Deciding like ooh, it needs to
be in exactly this vocation and living in what kind of are you
doing? It's just they just that's what
they feel like at the time and when I'm topping, I get into
that state where the scene itself because this is so my
God's most pretentious thing you've ever said it becomes the
canvas on which I'm painting. And so I'm my brain is perhaps
equally quote unquote turned off, because it has now become
like a program, that is just running.
I'm just like in the flow of the scene in the same way that I am
when I'm subbing, it's just now it's not, I don't know, I'm not
sacrificing my Mobility or my senses to you.
I'm sacrificing my I guess my motivations are my autonomy to
you even though you're submissive you're holding the
power because you're controlling what I'm doing in a way although
it's not your decision. What I do, what I'm doing is
always for a very Very unambiguous function function.
You're such a service tap. You're like the most touristy
service time ever. It is charming.
But like, yeah. And I mean I think that she was
like you keep apologizing for like not having like advice but
I think like, one of the reasons why we set out to do these
episodes is because we just want to have conversations to
hopefully maybe make it easier for people to have conversations
of their own. So I don't necessarily feel like
You have to have any brilliant insights.
What we're trying to accomplish is like hey if you want to sit
down with your significant other or others and say hey this is
something that we want to explore whatever, like I think
it's important to just hear the logistical conversations that
happen between two people with ADHD because like, there are a
lot of considerations that need to be made when you're talking
about neurodivergent. See, absolutely.
Do you find that when you're you as a, you are also a switch.
I am also a switch and you've said that, you you already HD
has helped but when you're submissive because your brain
turns off. Yeah.
Do you feel that your ADHD is alleviated or helped or whatever
term you want to use when you're topping?
And if so, do you have any ideas as to why?
Or why not? Do you know, I'm gonna be really
honest. My answer is no, my answer is
absolutely. No, I think they're like, I
don't think my ADHD, Helps my top but I also topping but I
also don't think it's like necessarily hindered and like
one of the questions I get asked so often.
So often. I'm Tick-Tock is like, well, I
have ADHD, can I be a dumb? And I'm like yes, fucking
obviously you can be a Dom like fucking obviously, you can be a
top. But there seems to be, I think
this incorrect assumption that to be a top.
You have to Be able to enter that flow State.
You have to be able to just like into it right now.
If am I fucking make outlines I'm not joking.
Like I have a fucking like little book report formatted on
my phone. That's like okay, like I want to
do this and I want to do this and then after this, I'm going
to do this. And so for me, like it, Topping
dong whatever you want to call. It doesn't necessarily help my
ADHD the same way that, like, my brain turns off when I'm
submissive Aang speaks method of submitting some.
So if I just don't like the terms, I'll try to avoid it as
much as I can because I hate that because I'm Umbra.
Um, but I think that like you it helps me To do something else.
It's a type of service. It's a type of making my partner
ensuring that my partner has a good time.
Has a safe time, has a healthy time and that is really
important to me. And so, like, for me, like,
that's kind of more of what it shows up as, huh.
I'm also just realizing that when I think of like Helping my
ADHD. I often assume.
That I'm referring to, it's subcision.
Subscribe that I'm referring to its subsiding, hmm.
It becoming less, you know, bad or prevalent or whatever.
And I'm just realizing that a lot of activities when I say
that it helps my ADHD. I'm not necessarily saying that,
it's makes it less prevalent or makes it go away a little bit.
I'm just meaning, it's less of a problem.
And so I'm thinking when I'm so Missive.
It helps my ADHD by making it subside by making it sort of go
away because there just isn't enough.
Yeah, there's a diversity of stimulus.
Such that my brain can do. It's bouncing off the walls
thing, but my ADHD can also be quote helped by putting it in
situations where it's either useful or comfortable.
For example, when I'm tinkering, for example, Katie, I'm a
tinker. I like, I like glue and stuff
together. Now, and stuff together, and
duct tape, and Coffee, stirrers, baby.
I just got really excited for the robot puppet.
I'm building, I'm just realizing.
That's what I'm gonna do after you finish recording.
Beautiful. Thank you.
Um, oh gosh, I lost it. Wait, now, I got it.
I come back. I got it.
Oh, what I'm doing? Those things?
I think of those things as quote, helping my ADHD, but not
by making it subside, but by making it comfortable and
flourish. Because now the fact that mime
having a million different ideas at once and thinking of a
million different ways of doing something is a Actually very
beneficial, and I'm just realizing that might be the same
dichotomy between top and bottom rows.
When I'm topping, the fact that I'm having a million different
ideas, allows me to approach a scene from a bunch of different
angles. And then when the right one,
well, the quote unquote, right? Yeah.
The one you choose. The one I choose comes up it
like, is brighter than the other ones.
It's more. So it's not.
I'm not just making a decision in a hoping.
It's right. I'm comparing it to a million
different other things that have already come up.
And it just for some reason stands Out Among the other ones.
And then that's the thing that I do.
Which is I mean I think in some ways like I don't want to make
too much of a generalization but you know ADHD people are often
thought of as being very creative and I think that
perhaps might be somewhat of a mechanic that exists sort of
under the hood that when we have an a weird creative idea for a
painting or something. It's it's we're not just
designing one painting, we're designing a million.
And this one stood out. And so perhaps in a king seen
that same Dynamic is at play. I'm just, I'm a little bit
thrilled at like the realization that when I'm referring to
helping my ADHD. There's wow.
Oh God. Okay Park s break through this.
That's so weird one because I know but we'll just, we gets
asked so much because of our line of work.
Like, how do I basically help me with my ADHD?
And I've noticed that, Those usually fall into two formats
one. How do I make it go away and
two? How do I make it comfortable
news? And I think It's not it's not an
either/or thing in terms of what you, how you want to design your
life. It's not like I either have to
make my life completely suited to my ADHD, such to make it
comfortable and useful or make it completely go away.
And I think kink in a lot of ways, is a microcosm of a bunch
of stuff of life. I'm just trying to avoid saying
that because it's kind of pretentious, but, but Kink is,
is in a lot of ways. Exactly that microcosm and the
difference between sobbing and dominance subbing makes me okay
with my ADHD because it alleviates it dominating helps
with my ADHD because it makes it useful.
And there's a lot of this realizing that applies to a lot
of different things. Yeah, namely coffee, stirrers no
ice. Yeah, tight.
Oh, I had a question for you. It was Oh yeah.
There any skills that you've learned from Kink that have
helped you with your nerd? Emergency and I don't mean
skills necessarily just technical skills, like tying
knots. I was just, I was like, if
anybody needs a fucking first, mate, I can.
Fucking sail. A sailboat, man.
So, I mean, literal technical skills.
But also like emotional or, or interpersonal skills?
Yeah, I mean, oh God. Like, there's so many, like, I
think. It is funny too because like
there are some things that I like I am very good at as a top
that I'm really bad at as bottom like that.
That's a thing that I need to say right away like because I
don't know, like, I feel like I feel like a lot of the time I
have this like guilt complex about like Tick-Tock and
Tick-Tock lives because people will come on and they'll be like
what do I do? And I'm like here's what you do.
But do I take my own advice? The answer is no, but like I'm
I'm very good. I think at sort of objectively
looking at a situation, you know, things like my partner
doesn't believe I promise this point it's going somewhere.
Like you know my partner doesn't believe that I have ADHD or you
know doesn't accept my neurodivergent see.
What do I do? Like that shit to Red Flag.
Fucking bail. Like, what are you do it?
Like you know, and I'm like I'm so good at like advocating for.
Like you have a right to express your needs.
You have a right to ask for the things that you want like do it
fucking go right? Get off this live and you know
go have that conversation. Where is like in my own life?
I constantly struggled ask for what I want and like and I think
like if I was being very uncharitable to myself, I would
say that it Spock recei, but I think that Pulling a democracy
is being charitable to yourself uncharitable.
I'm being uncharitable. But I think if I'm if I'm being
honest, what it is is the fact that as a top I desperately
desperately want my partners to have a good time and I want them
to be safe and I want them to be okay and I want things to be
negotiated and clear and prepared and You know, never
ever put you or anyone I play with In Harm's Way.
And so like, I'm able to approach like kind of advice
giving from that mentality, but in terms of working through a
lot of my own issues with asking for what I want and, and
articulating, my own needs that comes from a very different
place and that comes from a place of myself being rejected
by partners and being Hold that I'm not enough and like that
kind of thing and so it's kind of like living in these two
dualities at all times that I think is really interesting and
it's something that I'm that I'm actively working on I think
because of like my top half like you know, like it's because if
it was like if I would think, I think if I was like always
submissive, I think I would be far less motivated to be healthy
in my communication and be healthy in how I approach.
Each things but because I know what it's like top.
I try to at least work on it. I often fail.
I ought, you know, I often fail, but I try to at least hold that
cognizance in my head of like, well, if you were a top, what
would you want? What would you need?
Well, like, how would you approach this?
And I think that is valuable I feel like that was going
somewhere else in that I meandered into a completely
different point. What the original question was
like what are butter skills? What?
Yes I'm looking at you for confirmation David.
Oh yeah it was. Well I think we talked about
this a bit in the sexuality episode or that the sex episode
but it's it's it's a bit ironic that when you're in a submissive
situation whether it like you know in vanilla sex there are
still there can be still submissive dominant sort of
thing going on. Perhaps not as obviously.
Um but very often times, when the person who is in who is I
guess sort of don't stay in control the situation but
dictating the situation. It is incredibly useful for that
person to know what the other person wants to have more
information rather than less from the other person.
And I think it's a bit ironic that by expressing what for you
specifically. The as you just just expressed
but a lot of people including myself it can feel selfish to
tell the other person what you want specifically when in fact
you're doing them a huge favor. Yeah.
And I think in Kink Kink being, you know, such a high octane
experience its net. It's absolutely necessary to
say, specifically like that hurts to what extent that I'm
not comfortable with or. Yeah, not so much that this and
so it's good. It's good practice, right?
It spread. Cated on the notion of consent
and communication, right? Exactly.
Which I think is really important.
I mean, well, I mean, I don't know, like, all my skills are
like, I don't know, I'm really good with a flogger, like,
that's not useful. Like, it's not a useful skill to
have except in very specific circumstances.
Well, you you read very well like, you know, I mean,
obviously, I will tell you, if something, if I need something
changed or want something changed.
Yeah. The very often times they don't
have to because, you know, No. We're emotionally intellectually
and physically, intimate enough that you can tell when my head
is moving in a not in a way that indicates that I'm not super
awesome about what's happening. Yeah, well I think that also
maybe has to do a little bit kind of circling back to to
questions like I think some of that has to do with my ADHD
being a being helped or being made comfortable in that.
I'm so used to constantly scanning Room.
I'm so used to constantly having to like take it a million
different things all in once in like process, those like I can
sort of, I don't to say cheat code it because that seems very
dangerous but like I'm able to like be fully present in the
moment and you know paying attention to what I'm doing.
But also noticing like okay is his hands grabbing the sheet
because he's enjoying himself or because this is too painful.
Or you know his head moving that way, you know, whatever.
And so like I'm picking up little details and that kind of
thing. I think that actually I think it
makes me a better top because I think a lot of times new new
tops, new king stirs people who are sort of like just developing
their skills are solely reliant on things like safe words and
verbal cues but the real truth of the matter is like people are
imperfect And I think that's something that you always have
to keep in the back of your head when you're when you're doing
Kink stuff, is that people are imperfect and things are going
to go wrong and just relying on a safe.
Word can be very dangerous. Especially if your partner is
neurodivergent, like I go nonverbal, I go super nonverbal
and I go nonverbal much much quicker than one might assume
like, if all you knew about me. Right.
Like, if you didn't know me, Katie and you knew me as Katie
of Soros and you had listened to all of infinite Quest and you'd
seen all of my tic tocs. The impression that you might
get is like, oh, this bitch knows what's up, like, she's
fucking talker, she's confident, she's articulate.
She knows what she's talking about, whatever.
But the real fact of the matter is, is that like, especially in
Kink especially when I am, submissive, I go nonverbal very
early. And like, you know, this because
like sometimes we do king stuff together but like, you, you have
to be able to notice that kind of stuff.
And you have to be able to, like process that kind of stuff in
real time and check in, and make sure that like the person is.
Okay and relying, just on the one thing, like, just the safe
word that can get that can get really dangerous for.
Oh, Divergent people because like stuff can change in an
instant in the moment and you need to be astute and Adept
enough at playing with that partner to know.
OK, his head is moved a little bit weirder than it normally
does. I should check in and I overly
check it and I'm sure it's annoying.
Sometimes really shut the fuck up.
I want to enjoy myself, but I would rather err on the side of
like, checking in with you constantly being like, are you
okay? Is this okay?
Is what like do you need me to stop?
Then leave room for that. Of like, I should have asked,
but I didn't because I didn't want to ruin the moment.
Yeah. Well I also I want to point out
what you have. I think you and I suspect that
you and I disagree on something concerning safe words.
I don't know exactly what we disagree with about but I
suspect that we do. My God hurry and have our first
podcast fight? No pocket park is conflict.
Yes, maybe no. Well, I think the what your
warning about is relying on the safe word or save signal as
being the only Indicator of the person that the submissive
person at the bottom needing something changed, right?
But I don't think it is. I think it's the failsafe, it's
no, no, absolutely not noticing those things.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You may have to clarify for a
partner like literal versus figurative, like stuff like
that. And that's important to keep in
mind because some people are not as Adept at reading body, bodily
cues or physical cue. Some people are not as Adept, at
think Ed hearing things. Figuratively.
And they need that like literal Miss.
I don't if they spelled out but clearly articulated.
And I think that is that's absolutely something to keep in
mind. Yeah, definitely.
I I it's weird being and I think being in Scituate, a situation
where words don't mean, what they usually mean is already, it
does you situation, it's strange.
And if you have trouble with, you know, we got people who
message us about their understanding of like reality is
difficult for them which is something that I don't feel
qualified to really speak on. But I can imagine that for a
person who already has a tenuous grasp with with reality and
what's real and what is, you know, truth and what's not being
in a situation where please stop doesn't mean please stop that.
That was the goal could be just I mean, just a an overwhelming
experience for I think the safe word accounts for that.
Yeah these are the safe word is this is the one word that exists
completely outside of this scene.
Yeah. Everybody did it.
You made it to the middle of the episode.
You know what that means? Time for a water break.
I guess that's a thing. Now cool.
Just real quick. Before we move back into this
week's episode, we want to remind you that if you need
stylish, cool, affordable glasses, you can get them from Z
little.com that Ze, L, o0 elle.com.
And if you use code kto that Cati EO, you get 10, Sun off
your order, that's not bad. We also want to let you know
that we've got some super cool, new merchandise available in our
red, bubble shop. So, if you go to red,
bubble.com, people / infinite Quest.
I know it's long but it's what it is, get some super cool, new
ADHD and merge, really. Crushing these horses were here,
I know do a really good job sooner.
We can buy some cool stuff that that's it.
All right, that's it, I think back to the episode transition.
They're getting more expensive. I mean, when we started playing
together, I insisted that we had a safe word.
You were like, no, well, Eric stop is my safe.
Well, I was actually going to want to say stop without me
stopping. Well, that's the thing.
I was going to talk about this because I feel like I owe you an
apology on the podcast because I want to use it as a learning
moment because like, I'm gonna say use it as leverage.
Oh no, I really I want to use it as a teaching moment because
like I have been in the community for a really fucking
long time and so I was I was very Very Cavalier and a time
when I shouldn't have and I was, like, love stopping stop.
Because, like, that is for me, I don't do that.
Like, I am not a person who goes like, Oh no stop.
But like, I mean, don't stop. Like, I don't because like, for
me, I don't know if it's like a linguistic thing or a consent
thing or something, but something about me and how I
operate in seen, stop means stop.
No means no, you know what I mean?
And so I wrongfully assumed and that was not cool of me like
that was not cool with me to do that.
That you would implicitly understand that and have that
same mentality and expectation and so I was like we don't need
a safe word. My safe word is stopped.
And I mean that, like, if I say stop, I mean, fucking stop.
Do you know? But like for you and I don't
like out you to make you uncomfortable, like, but for
you, you wanted the ability to have that kind of I don't even
want to say game but that like that flexibility to sort of play
Within. No stop not meaning actually
stop hard. Stop hard limit and having that
language exists within the scene meant that we had to find an
alternative, safe word, but like that figuring that out and
getting to that Journey. Like that was a moment where
like, I messed up, like, I messed up and I incorrectly just
assumed that you would Understand it from the same
Viewpoint and I was wrong and so, I'm sorry.
Oh well, thank you very much. No, no, no offense was taking or
anything like that. I'm just going to be reconciled
are like, oh I know but I mean I think it's important to I wanted
to talk about it because I think it's like a really interesting
neurodivergent thing. Yeah I would never say stop if I
didn't mean stop right like ever which I which like again I'm
just points back to the importance of having
negotiations and discussions beforehand.
Because if If I didn't know that going in it me, especially since
I'm new to King. I may have thought I don't think
I would have, but I may have thought.
Oh, the person saying stop is just part of it.
And I would keep going. Yeah.
And no matter how much you said, which is, I mean, like in my
head again due to Kink. So this is all coming from a
place of reasonable naivity, like the worst One of the I
don't want to be too many superlatives, but one of the
worst possible outcomes of a king seen or situations that you
could be in is when you really do want this thing to stop as a
sub and saying like no I'm serious and the top assume good
possibly with with totally good intention.
Assuming that that's part of it and not hearing would you not
literally not having language? I think of like when you're
having a dream. Yeah.
And you try to scream for help but you I mean that's a thing
that is happening. Animal do like that's that's
what I'm saying is like that is a thing that has happened to me
more than once and more than twice is my being in a scene and
saying no stop and people not stopping.
She's so and so and like I have like permanent physical damage
because of like those instances. And so I think like that is why
for me, stop means stop and like, I don't I honestly and I
know. God, this is my fucking
upsetting trauma podcast Revelation, but I think that's
why I tend to never say stuff like no stop.
If I don't mean no stop because there have been times in my own
Kink experience where no, stop didn't mean, no.
Stop even though I wanted it to. And so like, that's why I don't
like that. I don't like it when people are
like stop but they actually don't mean.
Stop. Huh.
Does that make sense? It does.
That's really interesting. Yeah, you should talk to
somebody more qualified without really interesting.
Yeah. I mean it's just like and it is
what it is. Like, it's not like well my
trauma but it's just like, I think that is why my head goes
to that but like that is something that if you don't know
that and I haven't articulated it clearly which I did not with
you, which is why I'm bringing it up is like it makes your
like, oh well safer to meet ya stop.
I also want to bring a week when we were having that specific
conversation that you referring to.
Well, it would be, it would have been after the first time we do
this thing together or at least after the first time I talked to
you, I talked about how like I think one of us joked like we're
not a safer because I'm not like, I'm not gonna like, I
don't want to use the word but I think we said like, because I
ain't no bitch fully in jest, of course.
And I brought up the point that because because of what I wanted
from the scene, like I don't want to say for it because I
don't want it to go very far and I want to have quite the
opposite. Like I want the safe word
because I want it to be able to go really, really far, but still
have it be safe because I know I have that word and that was
because that's because I'm still very much so in an exploratory
phase. Yeah so I didn't perhaps I do
want it. To get that far perhaps I don't
but I wanted that option in order to safely have that option
I needed to say for it. So I wanted to say particularly
I mean there's a lot of things that I want to say to the
straight men in this who may be listening, but one of them is
just that's safe words. Don't mean that you're scared or
are a sure sign of or also lack of masculinity know, they're
also not the goal. They're also not the goal.
Yeah. They're there until Sarah
failsafe. There's something you might may
never have to use. Like I don't think I've ever
said her safe, you've not. But we have one like, you just
because, you know, we have one and so like I'm trying to I'm
trying I want to speak on that in masculinity.
Out reinforcing that like, masculinity is like inherently
good. But frankly, for a lot of people
that is important, maintaining that masculinity for better for
worse, that it is important for them to do that.
And who am I to judge? That should be driving of your
honor. We're gonna let me talk to you -
going to do is real and that's a whole separate thing.
But basically having a safe word isn't a sign of weakness.
It's a sign that it's a sign of your seat back.
It's a sign of respect. It's just yeah, it's a sign of
respect. Absolutely.
But it's also frankly. Like it's it's it's saying that
you think you can take a lot basically, like it's not saying,
like I'm afraid. This is gonna hurt too much
there for a while. Safe word, you're saying, I want
it to be able to hurt a lot while still being safe about it.
Like, I know I it sounds like I'm dancing around something
because I frankly am I like, I'm just so nervous about
reinforcing masculinity as being like something that is
inherently good or necessarily any circumstance, but I do know
for a fact Acts that there are men who are curious about Kink
and sexuality and stuff, but they're worried about being
feminized or being emasculated and I am terrified.
That a man is going to engage in a king seen, in an unsafe way
because they think having a safe word is like pussy shit.
Pardon my language. But like, I genuinely worried
about that and I think, I mean, I've met those people, like, you
are not, you are not off base in that.
Know what I mean? Yeah, I apologize for screwing
on my language so much but I just yeah I really worried about
men and kink because I've met a lot of men who would not
practice safe Kink stuff for fear of being perceived as weak
or feminine or something like that.
Well, I also think it's very interesting that you're saying
this as a male switch. Yes.
Because like I don't know if I'm gonna have to be the person to
break this to you right now in this moment.
But like there is a real stigma against male submissives.
Yeah. Like there is like a real, very
toxic. Very unhealthy idea that like
you are somehow less of a man. If you are interested in
submitting, like it's like that's the girls job and it's
like not the case. But like it's very and it's very
prevalent and it's like, but it's weird too because like the
other Side of that, like sort of toxic masculinity coin is like
the fetes is that is his relation?
Fuck it of like the femdom and and like and that's been that's
the thing that I have to deal with as well as like yes, I am a
woman and yes, I am a top but like I don't necessarily want to
top you Chad, you know? And so it's like this weird
thing where it's like A lot of guys will objectify women in
that way but then at the on the other side like oh you're like a
bitch or you're a pussy or whatever because you are a dude
and you are submissive and it's like they're both problematic
and so many facets and so many aspects that it gets like it's
like really frustrating to navigate, I think.
Oh, yeah, I was reading you couldn't read.
It was a hilarious joke. Okay I was reading a comment
chain on Tick-Tock earlier about somebody made the claim that men
are more sexual Lee, their sex drive is greater and then more
sexual than women and this woman commented under that saying like
perhaps that's to perhaps it's not, but I understand what
you're saying. And I think the reason that a
person like you might think that Is because men are in fact just
touched start because if you look at like like think of like
straight Tick-Tock, so I don't mean to speak for like this,
fuck it growing up as a boy and now being what one might call a
man because of my age but certainly not because of my
mind. When we touch each other, it's
either physically, it's either aggressive or accidental it or,
or maybe a high-five, but hugging and and just like
Padding somebody on the back or whatever it's feminine and it's
bullshit. And you shouldn't do that
because man up or whatever the fuck don't fucking cry.
And so the only situations and when a man can receive touch,
that's not either violent or accidental is sexual and so
that's what we're fucking out for, not to mention all the
societal implications, that that's what we're taught to be.
And so, similarly I think being submissive just I think human
ins generally seek balance in a certain ways and I think feeling
that you need to be dominant all the time and being control and
be whatever this understanding of masculinity, you have is
trying to be that all the time is fucking exhausting and
frankly, unhealthy and I think our bodies crave a balance to
that and because Men are treated the only way that we can receive
like physical affection is in a sexual situation perhaps.
So to do we believe that that the only way to be acceptably
submissive or whatever, not everyone was able to be
submissive is in a similar sexual situation, which is where
this whole fem dom, like, but Crush my balls kind of things
comes. It comes into play because they
think the only way that being That submitted can be is in some
extreme scene, which is fucking fine to do.
I just I just I worry that there are a lot of men who have this
pitch to be submissive they have that they needed to be
scratched, perhaps they're like a, you know, a CEO type or some
shit. And they have to be managing
and, and dominant all the time in call shots or whatever are,
you know? Like I said, etre, I'll get it
out of you. I'm never going to tell.
Never tell. Everybody, let's get this out of
her. Anyways, is in a sexual
situation and I think there's a lot of tension being a man that
is created by the societal expectation.
That you cannot be submissive you have to be dominant.
And one of the ways that the tension can be released is
through being kink in a submissive being submissive, in
the king setting. and so, I think encouraging men to be
vulnerable in any capacity is good and I think Kink is one way
that that can Can occur and perhaps if we learn that being
submissive in a sexual or King setting is, okay?
Then perhaps being submissive and vulnerable and quote-unquote
feminine in a societal situation is perhaps acceptable.
I know that was a lot. I my thoughts are still forming
on that but three, I followed it.
I followed the train was, it was weird train.
I don't know. I mean, it wasn't even really I
think it was. I think it was honestly like
really nice. Like I think it's like a lot of
times, the Kink conversation is left out of the conversation
about like the society in which we live and the expectations
that are put on different genders and also just like toss
toxic masculinity as a whole. Like we talked a lot about like
fake Dom's and like my hat. Fake times or whatever but like
there's a lot of toxic masculinity wrapped up in ideas
about submission and stuff as well too.
It's not just like oh well have to be assured gamla Dom like
there's a lot but like I yeah I mean I get it like I don't know
if I have a lot to contribute because I am not a dude.
But well I just remember being like in my first couple sexual
encounters when I was 14 and 15 or so and feeling like I had to
like so. Much of my nerves about that
was, I have to decide what should happen here?
You know, I have to be this man about yes.
And you know, every move you that I'd ever seen involved some
scene where like the man like walks up to the woman and she
goes, uh, and then he like picks her up, and she's like that.
Uh, and they like go up against and it's this whole fucking
bullshit thing and the fact that I couldn't do that because
that's not just, that's just not who I was, was a real insecurity
of mine for a very long time. And to, to imagine being like
that. Now, with the agency that I
have, I have my own money, I can go wherever I please.
I, and I'm large enough to hurt people.
The idea of being that emotionally unhealthy fucking
terrifying. Yeah.
And without being to Grant about it, like that's why Wars get
started and shit is because men are unhealthy and makes stupid
fucking decisions because we can't cry.
Anyways, we can do a whole episode.
But no, I mean, it's a really good point, like, I think being
aware of That is really important.
I feel like we're very close to like yes, this topic is really
important and we're not talking about it.
Like that's that's what I have in the back of my head right
now. I don't think I think I'm having
a hard time talking about it, but I don't know.
I just I I feel like an agent, like a deep-cover agent or
something. Sometimes we're like straight,
men will talk to me. Like, I'm just going to agree
with the misogynistic bullshit that they say.
Yeah. And so like, I don't know.
Now that I have a platform to say like, hey guys, It's okay to
cry. It's okay to hug each other.
It's okay. If you like, you know, getting
pegged like it's okay it's all okay.
And I think Kink is as king being such a microcosm of like
Human Experience getting okay with doing things that you might
consider to be feminine or masculine and being okay, with
not being in control and submitting to a woman.
And and then again, I mean I'm talking critically about, you
know, straight Mass And King can be really helpful to that as
it's been helpful to me. Okay, well then here is my next
question for you then. So you are newer ish to the
Kingston than me. I've been, I've been active in
the scene for belly. I don't know, 10 years, maybe 12
or something like that. I'm elderly Eric, you must not
forget this. I'm so much older than you.
I had like one of the most one of the questions that I get
asked most frequently is I want to talk to my partner about
trying cake stuff or I'm interested in King stuff.
How do I get started? And like, I have my answers
which are very, like, stock answers at this point because
like, I have answered that question.
Approximately 9,000 times on take time live at this point.
So, Bullock, what for you, like, for somebody who is much, much
newer. What advice do you have for
somebody? Like, just starting out like,
especially for like dudes and in like a position like yours where
they're like, maybe they are a little bit more submissive or
they're just trying to like figure out, like where they fall
sort of in like the identities in kink.
Like how like, how what would you say to those people?
How do you, how do you get them started on that Journey?
Um, I think one just a lot of the things that you think you're
going to like, you're not going to end up liking and a lot of
the things that you think you're not going to like you are going
to end up like which is really jarring.
But so I think go into that. Like if you express strong
interest to your partner in trying something, you do not
have any obligation to continue, enjoying it, you can say, oh,
wait, never mind like that. Is that, was that it's well.
How do you start the conversation?
Your partner because I like very specifically.
Remember how you brought it up with me?
But I would like you to tell the story because it's not my story
to tell. Wait, wait, which where physic,
I'm trying to hurt because we had a lot of conversations we
were in my car and your car. Yeah, I remember, I think, I
don't know that we were talking, I basically said, like, Oh I
wanted like a sampler course I think.
Is that the conversation is very well?
Yes yeah cuz like I had a lot of ideas about why I would like
because there a lot of things that like the idea of are you
know, hot to me or interesting to me, but to have them
physically happen to you as a different story.
And so I think I asked to to design like sampler courses of
different things. So, like, when we started doing
impact play, you gave me the rundown of like.
So there's stinging impact, you know, like getting like like a
Kane is very sticky and then there's 30 which is like a
fucking bat, you know. And so I was like cool.
Like, let's just give me a little assu song of this fat
like that, you also absolutely, and immediately defaulted to
Kitchen terms, that was something that I thought was
very funny. Like yeah, you know, a little
sampler course, like, just a little sampler platter, just a
little Chef's tasting menu when I was like I got it, Eric your
cook well, in our particular case, like I know that you're
very experienced. Inkay ink.
So I knew you were qualified to do that so I guess one I think
it was worth waiting to be with a partner that I was comfortable
doing that stuff with not to say that I was deliberately waiting
like I you know somebody came up to me and said you know I want
to do king stuff with you. I'd be like yeah sure which
would not have been safe but it's it was worth.
I'm just so glad that I have that conversation with you you
specifically and not just someone Um, and so I think
weirdly sweet. It was really nice, but then
also, it's a really a two-way thing while I was reading.
I was really surprised that not surprised, but was interested in
when you spoke that, like, it's easy to think that like the sub
is the only person that needs to give consent.
But the person doing the thing also needs to be comfortable
doing that thing. So, be aware that when you, if
you bring something up to your partner, they might be like
that's totally Fine, that you want that but I'm not
comfortable doing. So be aware that the well one
remind them that they can do that.
But I would also be specific because if you say to a partner
like I want to try King stuff. That's that's the that's
broadest thing of. Yeah.
So say specifically like I would like would it be okay if you you
know hit me with a wooden spoon kitchen stuff?
But I don't like honestly, in terms of advice, I think, I
think you would probably work, although, like I'm more proximal
to having had that experience because it was like two months
ago. I had an experience with you and
I know that you were experienced.
So I was more, I was asked, I was talking to like a professor
on the subject whereas I'm thinking like a couple where
neither of them have really had very many.
Yeah. If any kid experiences.
Yeah. How might one partner approaches
mean? You know the real thing.
The real thing. That and I'm just going to be so
infinitely practical. The real thing about Kink is
that there is like and I think maybe it's so no another podcast
breakthrough but like one of the things that really draws me to
Kink is that like there is work that needs to be put in on both
sides constantly and consistently, you know?
And so like I get these questions all the time about
like well how do I talk to my partner like whatever?
And I'm like, You just have the Caillou just sit down.
You have the conversation but with that conversation and I
can't I can't tell people how to have that conversation because
like every relationship is different.
Ours came out of like a separate conversation that we were having
like in my car on the highway and it happened to come up and I
was like, yeah, sure family. I got you and I was like happy
to do that for you because I love you and I care about you
and I want you to like be fulfilled, you know?
But for other people like it might be coming out of a.
I'm very dissatisfied with my relationship and might be coming
out of a We're in a new relationship, you know, or we're
in an old established relationship.
And we want to, like, spice this up, or like, whatever.
Like there's so many different ways to come at it, that I don't
think that there's, like a script, but I think what it
comes down to is vulnerability authenticity.
And then, circling back to the point that I lost track of is
fucking research like, and it sucks.
It sucks to have to look at somebody and to be like, oh, you
want to do heavy impact play? Well, I need you to go read
about fucking Deep tissue bruises and go research like
different implements and liked out.
Come back and tell me like, what you'd like to be hit with like
that is boring, it is boring. And it's frankly, not that sexy.
It's not that sexy to have to go in like FetLife and read a bunch
of, you know, like how to guides on, you know, how to do single
column knots and like that kind of thing, but it's necessary.
It's necessary for safety. It's necessary for
communication, and kind of like the tick tock.
Do you made about apple juice versus vodka?
Like, even terminology like, if I say a paddle, what does that
mean? Like, for some people, they
picture like something real, small and cute, and whatever.
Some people picture, something a lot, less fun, and cute, you
know? And so being on the same page
involves just so much communication and specificity in
that communication. And I don't know, like this is
going to be read, this might be the shittiest thing that I ever
say on this podcast. But I think one of the things
that have been a has become abundantly.
Clear to me as both like a king talker, sex educator mental
health, Advocate is how many people are in shitty
relationships? And like that sounds harsh and
it sounds mean and maybe it is, but like I'm shocked by the
number of people who come to me and say things like, I can't
talk to my partner about my ADHD.
I can't talk to my partner about my depression, I can't talk to
my partner about wanting them to tie me up.
I can't talk to them about A B C or D and it's like, I understand
that it can be challenging. I understand that it can be
uncomfortable. But I think it's so important to
build those skills and for exactly what you're talking
about earlier, like it's not just about being like Eric, I
would like it very much if you tied me up and choked me.
It's about being able to look at you and say, Eric, you forgot to
take out the garbage for the third time, this this month and
it really hurts my feelings. Those are both uncomfortable
conversations in their own kind, but being able to have one means
that you can more easily have the other and, So yeah.
I mean like if you don't have a supportive partner, if you don't
have a partner who is willing to listen, if you don't have a
partner who is willing to at least listen, even if they're
not at all interested. Even if the they quietly and
respectfully, listen to host feel and they go, absolutely
not. I am not interested in spanking
you or whatever. There should, you should be able
to come to your partner with that kind of stuff.
And trust that they will at least hear you.
And listen, and if you're not like that's that's a red flag
for me, dog. Thanks for being that kind of
person Katie, you know, being a being a person, I can talk to
you about the kind of stuff, you know?
Proud. I can't imagine what my life
would be. Like now if you want, I can't
imagine my life without you. Aw, Hey everybody.
Congratulations, you did it. You made it to the end of the
episode. I just want you to know that I'm
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