Hi everybody. It's me.
Hey good. No, it's not.
It's not you. It's her.
I'm hanging it up. We're gonna bury take it.
Hey everybody. Welcome back to request.
I'm hey, goood. I'm also.
Hey, good. Hey, you know what?
I've been thinking about? I've realized of the topics of
our episodes. Aren't really topics.
They're more like jumping off points because we never end up
at the still talking about the top.
Everybody. That's a very good point.
Eric, would you like to explain why you said?
Add that just right now. Well, yeah.
Because in this one, we start talking about working from home.
And then we eventually did start talking about like personal Duty
and feelings of responsibility and you laugh at the word duty
every time every time. Well yeah, we're this one, this
one gets a little a little interesting.
So just just know that one going in but yeah, here's a this
week's episode infinite quests. Also there will be more
information in the middle. Transition.
Hi everybody. It's me.
Katie a source. Hello.
Hi. It's me.
Hey goo. Eric, I was thinking that before
this episode starts. We should introduce ourselves
three times because we've been introduced yourselves twice
before every episode. I was thinking maybe just as a
season goes on. We just keep introducing
ourselves longer and longer and longer until it's nothing, but
an hour of us. Going back and forth.
Going hi. It's Katie circuits is me a good
and this week on a ticket and then we just do that in the loop
for forever. Yeah.
Just every time when we pass it back and forth before we start
talking, yeah. No, it's still.
It's still me. Hey dude it's today on infinite
question. What are we talking about today
on infinite? Well, we did just do that a
whole interstitial thing but it helps us get in the mindset, you
know, whatever. Well I want to talk about
working from home because thanks to all of you patrons patreon
people and people who donate stuff and the paid give the
money. There's so many different random
ways that people give is what I don't know.
But thanks to all of you have been sent microphone.
Yes. Thank you.
Explicitly told me not to care. Let's see how well.
No, it's like it's good practice but thanks to all of you.
I can I know of a streaming computer which is capable of
doing all sorts of cool. OBS stream me stuff that I was
incapable of doing before and so now like we've been working from
home for a year and a half. Oh my gosh, something like that.
Lee has. Yeah, that's really weird.
But now having this computer I have like a command station.
I have like a monitor thing and of thing, you know, like I don't
have to sit down and then clear off my shit over a desk.
And then put my computer down and then figure out, then we,
you know, run the charger to a plug and then Kaylee, you know,
it's just there. It's ready to go and that's
really given me. I feel like I've had sort of a
fresh start. Like I feel like the idea of
working from home is really like, solidifying in my head
because I have an environment now that like, when I'm in my
brain goes, it's work time because like, you know we've had
this office for a year and a half now and that has sort of
helped me. But anyway, my point is, is had
going being in a specific environment.
Really helps me? Get into like the work mindset
and I'm just realizing how much I've really been struggling with
that over the last like year and a half.
Now that I have like a command center set up, you know, it's
sort of like, you know, cooking. But you don't have a table or
counter. You have to just constantly be
setting up little things to put your cutting board on.
How do you mean exactly how I cook in my kitchen?
Exactly. So I cooking like it too but I
think working for home has been really really hard on people
with ADHD. We talked about this a lot of my
twitch stream this morning but work From home was a goddamn
nightmare for a lot of people with ADHD because suddenly like
the structures and schedules and whatnots that we relied on, you
know, we would have hated them but, you know, they helped us be
where we needed to be and do what we need to do when we
needed to do it all of a sudden. Those just went away very
quickly and it's like, hey, run your own life.
Now, put run your own work life. Now you have to figure out what
you're going to be doing, where you going to be doing it and all
the while you have the kids running around in the, you know,
you're in the same environment. It's just been a real struggle
and I don't know. I feel like it's worth talking
about because I feel like I've been on a bit of a journey on it
and I think so if you I have a really weird experience with
working from home and it's in, it's such a specific thing that
like, it's so dumb. It's so silly to talk about.
But like one of the biggest stresses for me is I lost my job
during the pandemic. When I was at the Renaissance
Festival, I had an office and I had a workspace but most
importantly, Eric I had a costume shop at Costco.
Jim shop at the Renaissance. Good.
And when I lost my job at the
Renaissance Festival, I had to move an entire costume shop out
of the Renaissance Festival and into my house in which there was
already a costume shop. So, I went from having the
contents of one costume shop to the contents of having to
costume shops in my house. And the repercussions of that,
I'm still, Feeling on a daily basis, in a way that has created
like quite honestly, like a lot of Shame and a lot of guilt
because like literally like right now, like with and I side
of this office is like a bunch of stuff that like, I just don't
have places for. I don't have room for like there
still a bunch of stuff in my garage and I realize that has
nothing to do with working from home.
But what it does have to do with is the environment in which I
work because what I am learning About working from home is that
kind of like what you were talking about with like having a
workstation like I have to have a workable environment, but the
thing is Eric that my work environment, it doesn't, it
doesn't just go to like what I can see because like I feel like
you like in The Matrix when like Neo can like see everything and
like the, you know, and it just is like the the digital like
readout. Yeah.
That's how I feel about the house.
It's like I'll be sitting in the office and like they're, you
know, like right now you've got like, your computer boxes on the
couch because, you know, you just unpacked your computer.
But I know that like outside the door, there's like the pile of
like costume stuff that I seldom put away, and then next to, that
is like the bins of like the Doom boxes that I like brought
upstairs. And I know, like, down the
hallway is like the table that I still haven't done anything with
and that I know that there's like the craft room at the end
of the hallway and it just constantly stresses me out in a
way that I cannot like, I just, I choose not to acknowledge a
lot of the time because it's just like, it's too.
For me to deal with. Oh yeah.
But I do want to burn my house down.
Well hey don't burn your house down.
I'm on. I'm in here.
How I would take all of your stuff out of the house what?
And all the world's plants pile? I would save the plants so the
plants what else would you? Save plugins fuck.
Oh I would save Mother Katie, I'm sure my mom Vicki I was save
Chris is comic book collection. Okay and that's it.
That's nice and well you see and my page from the folio.
Yes. That's of course I'm probably my
wedding day, like there's a lot of stuff.
I would have to say that. What I'm saying is that I have a
lot of stuff that I I don't want and I don't know what to do with
it and it makes me really stressed out which is nothing to
do with working from home. But apparently that's what we're
talking about because this is an ADHD podcast.
I'm incapable of sticking to the assignment.
Well, no, I think it does have to do with working with because
working from home, doesn't just mean, like you were, it's means
work comes home, like, whatever your job was at the beginning of
the pandemic has to come home with you to some extent whether
it's like paperwork or you have a specific set of hard drives or
whatever. Like for a lot of people that
meant Taking shit from their office and bringing it home and
for you those entire goddamn costume shop.
I mean, I couldn't really do cooking work from home, so I was
kind of Lucky in that regard, but I brought a bunch of like
stuff that I kept in my professional kitchen home
because I was not going to work. And so like it was about your
clutter there, but it was really like, for me like the, the, the
big struggle of it is mixing environments because I so rely
on sensory input to sort of dictate the mindset that I'm in.
Like so if I'm in a kitchen, the klinke could Clank, Clank lack,
lack of stuff and the sound of like the the hoods and people
saying kitchen, stuff like that, my whole brain just was okay,
we're cooking. Now we're doing professional
cooking work, get organized yet whatever.
Like it switches it flips the switch Yes, you at you got to
look on your face like you got something to say okay hear me
out. What if you got an environmental
soundtrack of a kitchen? Like you know how like the like
guys like go into the restaurant and he's in there just like you
can just buy the like clone. I don't know everybody.
That's me doing restaurant, fully work opportunities and you
know like you put in the background or your movie like
yeah like that. What if you just had that plague
of the background the office? Do you think there's a lot of
Tom's, a lot of Tums Do you feel like, do you feel like that
would make you more or less productive?
Well, I desperately want to try this experiment, I'm just gonna
start playing kitchen. Moses, sometimes and see if it
makes you more productive. It honestly minor, if it tricks
you into making me dinner it honestly might I mean in a
culinary because it doesn't is silly.
Put me like into work mode so much as it does put me into like
cooking mode, you know. So like I guess that's that's
also I guess true. Is when the pandemic hit, I mean
I did a decent kitchen work. Later on, but when the dynamic
hit, there was no kitchen work to be done.
And I hadn't done like City Downey, computery work, and
years and years, and years and years and then Tick Tock stuff
happened and how this happened. And so, not only am I doing work
like professional work in my own home, like a couple feet away
from my bed, but it's also worked at.
I'm like just genuinely fucking terrible at.
And so I had to like wrap my head around being in
professional mode at home for a profession that I have no idea
how to do that was Oh, fuck. So, how did you develop the
systems and thus, and the Strat this the sweet strats that
you're using now? Like how did you how did you
figure them out? You do you want to know what the
biggest one was? Yes.
Do you know what the biggest thing was Katie?
Yes, it was mise en Place, God damn it.
An absolute classic Stover. Thanks for coming everybody.
This is been infinite quests. Meson plus fucking forever, bear
a median. Well it's true.
I mean it's really true and I talked about this a lot of so
Katie prepare to scoff but I feel like I should I should wear
it's a scarf out loud, but I feel like I should clarify what
mise-en-place means for those who might not know mise en.
Place is a French phrase means to put in place and it's
generally used in kitchens meaning to put out your
ingredients and make sure all your tools are in the blight
right place and making sure everything is in a place that
facilitates the thing that needs to be done.
So like you know if you need to make an omelette that has
chopped onions, bell peppers, whatever in it.
You know, you have all those ingredients Outs with your
scrambled eggs. Before you even start actually
cooking, you have all that ready and set up.
So mise en place in that concept pops up in everyday life all the
time. Like one of the best examples is
if you like put coffee in your coffee maker the night before,
like as you're going to bed, you put coffee.
So when you wake up the next morning, you just press the
button. Meson plus a baby that is some
solid mise en place and incorporating that idea into as
many parts of your life as you can is I think for me has been
essential in my ADHD nests. And I think for everybody is
incredibly useful thing to do So that working from home was
essential. But that being said, like doing,
you know, podcast editing and and all the stuff that we now do
is not stuff that I'd ever done like professionally before and
so, Not only was I, you know, to trying to develop Meson Plus for
podcasting and podcast, editing and Twitch streaming and on and
Tick-Tock shooting and all that stuff, I had to figure out how
to actually do that. And so I was like Building Up
structures to quell my ADHD while learning.
So it's just sort of like an everything on one.
And I'm still not great at it but you know like I keep a
pencil and sticky notes next to my desk and stuff like that.
So I think having everything have like a having everything,
have a default location or a default position that it kind of
goes back to and I was just not to say my desk is super clean
every night before I go to bed. But you know like I roughly make
sure that the things that I know I'm going to need are in a
reasonably consistent way. One of the questions that I get
asked a lot about people. Or from I guess people who are
struggling to work at home is like motivation, like finding
the motivation to like, get up and do something when it's like,
but the PlayStation is right there.
And the Netflix is right there in the Facebook is, I mean, I
guess like nobody checks Facebook anymore but like, you
know, the the Reddit tab Doom, scroll is always like one tab
away. Like so how do you stay focused?
How do you, how do you get your I work done.
Well I want to I'm just going to go ahead and just throw that
question back to you because I'm terrible at that, but it seems
like I don't speak for you but it seems like you've got a
better handle on that kind of thing that I do like because you
when you, you're always on the computer and you get a lot of
work done. But occasionally, I'll see you
look over in you're looking at, you know, whatever stuff so
seems like you, at least found like a balance or something.
Yeah, I mean, I have a really weird relationship with
motivation and it's something that I realize has started sort
of like, oh, Is coming to a head in terms of how I feel about
motivation and how I think like the rest of the wide world, the
use motivation, and I think a lot of it comes down to the fact
that I don't need motivation to do things, which sounds really
trite. But the fact of the matter is,
is that I have always worked or unconsciously take it on.
On high-level responsibilities and and jobs that require a lot
of balance and a lot of detail work and like that kind of
thing. Because if I fuck it up there's
repercussions. And so like for me, you know,
like I get like a question I get all the time is like how well
how do you find the motivation to make a tick tock you know
tick-tocks every day and I'm like I'm not motivated to make
thick socks every day like I'm not motivated to do it, a lot of
the time. But I know that if I don't, My
Views will go down and it will hurt the podcast and, you know,
I'll, you know, I won't show up on the furry you page or
whatever and so like even on the days where I'm like, really
struggling like I still try and make something or do something
because that is the expectation that I put on myself.
I don't necessarily want to I'm not exactly like I'm not always
excited and I know that a lot of times like I'll post, you know,
some Like shitty shit post because it's just like I just
want to put something to like know that I did.
But like I really struggle with conversations about motivation
because like I don't know, like I feel like I have a really
don't want to say unsupportive but my relationship to
motivation is like I have to be an adult.
Sometimes I have to pay my bills, sometimes I have to take
out the garbage sometimes and I'm not motivated to do it and I
don't want to do it. But if I don't take the garbage
out to the curb today, then the garbage Are going to come
tomorrow and take my garbage. And now I have two garbage cans
full of garbage and I have to stack garbage, you know, bags in
my garage and I'm speaking from experience and it and it feels
unkind and it feels unsupportive but like I'm not motivated.
But if I don't work hard and I don't do stuff, then we're not
going to continue to get the opportunities that we've been
given. I'm not going to, you know what
I mean? I don't like.
I don't feel like I'm saying anything of use right now.
No, I completely agree. I mean I think a huge question
for me. Like one of the things that I
think I'm going to spend the rest of my life figuring out.
You know, one is the thing that you always laugh at me for
saying that I wholeheartedly believe in is, May you always
afford yourself the same Grace and kindness that you so easily
afford others? Because we're it's so easy for
us to like, know what another person should do or forgive
another person, but it's so hard for us to forgive ourselves and
know what we should do. So that another one is when I'm
at work. I think I'm exactly like that.
I don't give a fuck about motivation like if I'm if I'm in
a professional kitchen and something needs to be done, like
it doesn't even enter my brain, how motivated I am to do it.
Like it just doesn't occur to me nor does it occur to me and how
much I would enjoy it or how gross it is.
Or it just doesn't occur to me to think about that kind of
stuff, but the second I'm not that anymore when I'm home, or,
you know, just not in that environment.
Suddenly I'm complying the constant game of measuring.
How much motivation? I I have and is that motivation
sufficient to do the thing that needs to be done?
And if it's not enough motivation to do the thing, can
I like White Knuckle through the the difference that's needed the
the Gap in motivation that I have versus motivation needed to
do the thing. And I mean, I'm still terrible
at that, you know? I mean, I've I think it's like
in a kitchen setting in a professional kitchen setting.
I've done literal tons of dishes, like, hundreds and
hundreds of hundreds of like by weight tons of dishes.
But when I get home and there's Two dishes in my sink.
That is Monumental, that is a huge fucking task and clearly,
it's just a mental thing that goes on for me.
And so, like, again, working from home, like I often find
myself Tick-Tock specifically. I don't know why Tik Tik.
Toks, have gotten my head lately, but I'm like measuring,
how much how motivated I am to do?
Like The Tick Tock, but like the podcast is different for some
reason. The podcast, I don't care how
motivated I am to do the podcast.
It's my job. Like it just doesn't occur to me
if I like, if it's 11:30 in the podcast posts at midnight and I
realized I forgot to do something.
I don't care if I'm in bed or in the shower or out and about
like, that's what I have to do. I have to stop what I'm doing
and fix that just because it's my job.
And so that mindset is like creeping into areas of my life,
but what bothers me is that it doesn't seem to be intentional
and I don't know what causes it? Sort of like if something is
broken and it just suddenly starts working, it's like it's
nice that it's working but you don't Still don't know what the
problem was. I feel sort of like that, so I'm
so I'm getting better in certain areas of like, disregarding
motivation and just being like, I don't fucking care how
motivated I am to do the podcast.
I have to because it's my job, you know, what does that say?
That I don't enjoy. But, you know, there are moments
when you have to muscle through it.
But anyways, you look like you had a question.
I actually saw her. I just know you're fine.
Like, I actually wanted you to talk more about that.
Like I wanted to hear more about that.
Experience. Yeah, well, I mean that question
of how, how do I get that same? Dutiful mindset is how it feels
like when I'm in a kitchen. There's a sense of Duty about it
that I am a part of a machine. You want to laugh at me saying
He was in the middle of the kitchen.
Or was it mostly like on the counters in the kitchen?
Did you? No.
No, no gross. No.
No Duty know. Steve Duty side.
I'll say dutiful. I guess is it's full of Duty.
That's worse. It's Duty full baby.
Hi, we're professional podcast for a serious, very serious.
Serious, very serious, serious podcasters, making series
podcasts but that sense of Duty that I felt at work or as I were
laughing about Duty and now I'm totally off.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, the question of, how do I
have that same dutiful mindset in?
I would say like, I want to say a domestic setting but by that I
mean just like my own life just managing my own life, things
like paying bills and doing taxes and taking out the garbage
and keeping my house from getting infested with bugs.
Like it just did because I had a depression, major depression
week, how did how to get that same mindset into those areas is
like a problem but I've been solving but like I said like in
certain areas like with the podcast specifically I do have
that same sense of Duty and and I could like try to
intellectualize why I like you know the fact that people say it
helps them. So I feel like I'm you know
giving something to the world, you know it gives me
satisfaction to know that whatever experiences I've been
Through or whatever experiences you've been through there,
helping people. So, there's like that immediate
understanding of why I feel that sense of Duty, but ultimately, I
don't know why. I feel that sense of Duty about
the podcast, but not about making tick-tocks and not about
a no making my, my twitch page, like reasonably organized.
So, people know what the hell is going on, and because that has
happened with the podcast, but not those other things, and I
don't know why. I think it seems like for me, I
think part of it is just goddamn doing it because it's sort of
like a it's, it's sort of interesting and sort of like a
secondary sense of the duty problem, which I'm now going to
call it because it's funny is I keep trying to find the
motivation to be dutiful. Yeah.
And therefore not need motivation.
So what if I just start with the fuck motivation?
And it's just like whatever I'm going to treat things with a
sense of Duty. I'm gonna treat my job with a
sense of purpose and Duty even though I don't know why or even
if it's going to work. I think that's essential I think
perhaps for me I don't know I don't I know what it is for me,
what's that? It's because I don't want to let
you down. Oh I feel like I really care
about him. Think West.
And like I want this to last and so for me, a lot of the times
when I'm not motivated and a lot of the times when I'm like, oh
my God, the last thing I want to do is like this.
Interviewer like whatever I go. Yeah but we built this thing
together, you know and and so that's what it is for me.
But I think the problem then becomes like for you know the
random person on our you know Tick-Tock lives you come in and
say like, oh my God I'm struggling so hard.
Hard to like, wake up in the morning and go into my, you
know, fucking kitchen and do my job for the next you know, 8
hours. Like that's that's like that's
the that's what I think that the challenge is is because it's
like if you don't have like an accountability buddy or you
don't have like because I'm going to say it like we like I
feel like it's something that we we honestly need to acknowledge
like the privilege that we have in terms of like our Jambi is
being twisted. Dreamers and podcasters and
content creators. Like a lot of people wake up in
the morning and they go to a job that they hate, you know, a lot
of people wake up in the morning and they go to a job that
they're not excited to do and doesn't involve a lot of
community and involves a lot of autonomy.
And, you know, having to be responsible for managing your
own workload. And that's something that a lot
of neurodivergent people can really struggle with hmm,
especially if like, there's no dopamine in the task and I think
that is that's hard because, you know, It's hard.
That was those the most smartest thing I've ever said on the
package. So it is right?
Absolutely. I mean, how well for one I just
just quick resource. Shout out to a friend of mine.
If anybody wants to go to ADHD Hive.com, a friend of mine, who
I met about a year and a little bit ago, he and I were going to
start a podcast that I was going to host but then we met in all
this happen. And so that was like, ooh,
buddy. I'm really sorry.
But there's like I do and, you know, it's fine.
Anyways, we're still friends. He's great but he And ADHD Hive
hosts, basically, massive body. Double studying parties are
framed is studying parties, but you don't have to actually
because that's where it how it started.
But basically they're Zoom meetings, I believe where you
sign up for time slots and you go and it's a big Zoom meeting
with a bunch of little boxes, but nobody's, nobody talks.
It's just you just sit there and it wasn't, but they're all just
doing their work. Whatever their work is.
Maybe there are PhD student, maybe there are collar or a high
school student, may be there, you know, a data analytics
person, whatever. But everybody's just doing their
work and they're all just sort of sitting there together, and I
feel like that would help a lot. And, and in terms of, you know,
I don't know if body doubling is the word or accountabilibuddy is
the word but of putting me in that mindset.
Like, when we were first starting this, when I was still
in California, it was a lot easier for me to work.
If you were on like a Facebook Messenger call even if we
weren't talking or even doing similar things, just the fact
that you were there helped me Miss those days a little bit.
I do I'm just starting for those days but I do not miss that your
reach across the desk distance. Yes having to get on a plane in
the middle of a pandemic distance.
That was that was shitty and I hate it.
I was really shitty. But anyways, quick shout-out,
ADHD Hive. We're also on their podcast.
Are We There Yet the other week? So anyways, listen that but what
what have you done that you found to help?
I guess, I mean because you've always been your stage manager
you were Coordinating literally just about to start talking
about the fact that like I'm having this, like, a massive
amount of imposter syndrome right now about this episode
because like I don't have anything.
I don't have anything to contribute.
Dude, once I really think you do, I just I don't though
because I have a really unhealthy relationship with work
and like I know that about myself but like Really, and
truly. I white-knuckle everything like
I don't have a lot of motivation in my life, but what I do have
is the ability to overextend myself and make everything an
emergency and to be super stressed out all the time and to
do nothing but work, like, I'm very good at that, but that's
not healthy, and I'm not going to tell anybody to do that.
In fact, I would was very strongly advocate for the other
way because it's a lot healthier and you get to have a cool
thing, like, work-life balance and that kind of thing.
Yeah. But like I don't.
Don't feel like I can like it's and it's genuinely something
that I struggle with so much because it's a question that I
get asked over and over and over again.
And like I talk so much about how unhealthy and toxic the
ideas like well just do it like because I really truly believe.
Like it's very toxic idea, especially in can in
conversation with neurodivergent especially in conversation with
like the struggles and And and issues that people like us with
depression face and ADHD face in conversation with executive
dysfunction. But that's just what I do.
I just do it and I don't necessarily want to, I don't
necessarily feel like you know, I'm not I'm not excited to, you
know, do everything that I do, but I do it because it has to
get done and if it doesn't get done, nobody else is going to do
it. And so like Become incredibly
self-reliant, I think to a fault and I've become incredibly
demanding of myself and demanding of my time.
And I hold myself to an incredibly high standard that is
unmatched and impossible to to expect anybody else to work that
hard. But I do it because that's how I
get by. I get by by doing the thing.
You know, it's the same reason why I don't have.
I don't feel like really good advice about grad school.
School because people ask me about grad school.
The time, you know, they go, well, how did you get two
masters degrees with ADHD? And I'm like, I fucking
white-knuckled that shit, dog. Like, and, and I burned myself
out, you know, and it's like, so I don't know, like, I'm really,
really shearling with this episode because, like, my answer
is, I just fucking do it. I do it, and it's hard, and it
sucks, and I hate it sometimes, and I mess up a lot of stuff and
I put a lot of stuff off because I go old, I'll do it tomorrow or
whatever and then I forget and it's been, you know, six months.
and we talk to, you know, People that were supposed to talk to
you six months ago but yeah. I mean that's my answer and so I
don't I honestly don't feel like I have anything to contribute to
this conversation and I feel really guilty and really toxic
and really like gross about it because my advice is like we'll
just do it. But that's so counterintuitive
to our entire fucking message in our entire fucking platform.
But I don't know how to contextualize it now.
I'm having like a whole fucking existential crisis.
Well, that's fine. I'm okay.
You're doing great. And I love you and you're my
favorite person glasses off for this.
That's how strongly I felt about it.
But also for one, I love you, you're amazing.
And you always always have something to contribute and your
masks but a question. But I actually want to know the
answer to this question that I'm about to ask.
So I'm going to ask it. All right, I think.
White knuckling is only an option if you know what you're
trying to what you're supposed to White Knuckle, right?
You know like if I know I need to do the dishes but I don't
have the quote unquote motivation to do it, right?
I can White Knuckle that what's hard, what you can't
white-knuckle is figuring out what it is.
That's when the whole executive dysfunction is not a fucking
Choice, comes in right. Where there are times when I'm
like, all right, I've I'm in it. I'm ready to work but I sit down
in my brain just can't figure out what to do or more often
it'll figure out. To do in as soon as I start
working on that. I'll figure out.
Oh, actually, it's this other thing.
Oh, actually it's this other thing.
Actually, it's this other thing and so white-knuckling doesn't
work, unless you know what to do, what it is, you kept saying
you know you just do it. Well knowing what it is, is the
first step and I think that's what I and I imagine a lot of
other people struggle with and I think you one of the reasons I
think you perhaps feel that you don't have anything to
contribute is because a lot of the things that you do have the
contribute are so intuitive to you that you're not aware of
them. So So the question I have for
you and good luck, I guess is, how do you know what it is?
How do you know which email to send?
How do you know if you're not gonna like this answer?
Well, I had, it's very unhealthy.
Uh-huh, I have a rotation that I go through.
Yeah, that's it. That's the entire.
What do you mean by rotations? I do the same thing over and
over and over and over and over and over and over every single
day. I have a very specific thing
that I do wake up. I check my tick-tock.
Make a tick tock check the comments, check my messages, I
go upstairs. I check my email answer the
emails and the order that I get them, then I like do Instagram.
Then I do another Tick Tock thing, then I twitch stream.
Then, like after the twitch stream I check emails again.
Like so I just I have it like and it goes on and on and on,
and on, and on from there, but it's just it's like a Rolodex
that I've I've just come up with in my head.
So like in the cycle repeats at a certain point.
So at a certain point, Point. Like if I missed an email in the
morning or like, oh, I didn't have an answer for that email or
whatever. Then I then that's one, you
know? Okay.
So I missed the email like the, you know, 10 a.m. check.
I don't have like a time schedule, you know, like that
kind of thing, but I just go. Okay, here's the order in which
I do things. So, you know, if I missed an
email, I don't have an answer. The email is going to take like
a really, really long time to send.
Then I catch up with that email like on the next email Loop.
And then I catch up with like the other thing that the thing.
But that's why stuff falls through the cracks.
Like, that's that's like when and and like a really good
example, is the paperwork for the, the book for the, for the
agency is we drop that ball. Well, I dropped that ball
because I'm the paperwork person, but I dropped the ball
for like two weeks because I couldn't get the DocuSign thing
to work, right? And so every time I would cycle
through it would still not be working, or I couldn't do it the
way that I needed to and then I realized like, okay, I have to
completely interrupt this sketch.
Jewel, that I have set out for myself and spend like an hour
solving this problem and involved, like downloading like
two separate, PDF forms and like, re-uploading it and doing,
like a whole bunch of shit. And so I got like super
frustrated but like, that's how I do it.
So like there's never an it, there's never there.
I don't, I don't give myself the opportunity of choice.
I just have a rotating docket of tasks that that I go through
over and over and over. Congratulations.
You did it. You made it to the middle of the
episode. We're so proud of you.
Smack dab in the center. Hey, also, we have some very
important information for you. If you are in the Atlanta area,
we have just received the very exciting news that we're going
to be doing three panels. We're gonna Frolic on.
Yep, it's gonna be great. We're gonna be there doing
stuff. Come on by, we can be doing
three panels. We're doing nerd of urgency and
kink. And as well as neurodivergent
subs, and neurodivergent Dom's are two separate ones.
So two separate workshops. And at some point on one of the
nights will be doing ADHD and D of some capacity kind of thing.
We're still working on what that's going to be, but it'll be
cool. Be fun.
And also, if you see us at one of the parties know you did,
it'll be great. What happens?
If Ali Khan stays there Frolic on, so we'll see you there.
Yeah. Transition.
It's sort of incredibly unhealthy is well what you just
described as a schedule. I mean it's an it's a scheduled
but it's a schedule driven by a fucking Madness.
Well I don't, I don't need it to be diminutive when I say what?
You just described as a schedule.
I mean, I think I just sort of that is sort of the pajama
principled schedule. What is the pajama?
Principal you ask well one time quick tangent.
One time I was in bed in the morning and I didn't want to get
out of bed and it's a consistent problem for me.
I was like when I may want to get out of bed, oh, I realized
because it's fucking cold. That's the whole, the core of it
is because it's cold. So I was like hmm.
I should wear a specific set of clothing to bed.
That's reasonably warm. So that when I wake up I'm
already wearing clothes. Oh shit, I just invented
pajamas. But that being said, I now
appreciate pajamas in a way that I didn't before or after that,
after I had that thought and I think you just sort of pajamaed
scheduling, is for an ADHD person at least, is that
scheduling rid you of having to figure out what it is such That
you can white-knuckle it if you have to.
It's, it's it's what allows white-knuckling to become an
option. Basically.
Because there are a lot of times when I'm, like, perhaps that
motivated, but I'm willing to White Knuckle.
But when I sit down, I don't know what to do.
I mean I have 100 things to do but I indeed the moment I start
doing one, I realized another one is actually more important
than another one after that. And so you're scheduling is an
answer to that problem and that you've I want you to open block
things out like this. Lie down but what it is is
always reasonably clear. Yeah well and I think to I think
part of it comes down to the fact that I do have a background
in stage management and so like it's really weird because it's
very counterintuitive to a lot of people's ADHD and I think
it's that I think that's one of the more interesting things
about my neurodivergent experience is that because of
the career path that I chose for a Long time it forced me to get
very, very good at things that I've normally been very, very
bad at until like my capacity. To remember small details is
really like a really good. Like, you've been with me, you
know, in bed spoilers, they're going to know that, you know,
like 1:00 in the morning when I'm going.
Okay. I need to do this thing tomorrow
and I need to do this and I know it's super annoying but like,
that's how my brain functions is.
I'm really good at remembering. The small tasks but the problem
is, is when the small tasks don't sort of like fit into the
daily rotation. Like that's when stuff can get
mr. Dropped or whatever.
And so then what winds up happening is it sort of like a
like a funnel system almost where like, you know I'm able to
sort of like catch the tasks as they're coming out of the funnel
until there's like a big backlog and then that's when I get
overwhelmed and I go okay, like, you know, everything was really
great until I got hung up on this one thing, which hung NG up
this thing and hung up this thing and hung up this thing.
And so now like my, you know, my evening or whatever is just
fucked because I have like 100 extra things to do and I need to
do them today. Otherwise, they're going to be
left over tomorrow and then that's when I get into like
overwhelm and task paralysis and that kind of thing.
But the thing is Eric, is that task paralysis is not an option.
When you are a stage manager, right, there is no option for
that, like you, you can't, you can't.
And so like, I think a lot of my productivity and a lot of my
ability to sort of like function is based on the idea that like,
for me, task paralysis shows up in like around the house stuff.
It shows up in like you'd like my craft room like every time I
walk into that room, I am instantly overwhelmed and I'm
like not today and I just leave you know and I've been doing
that for almost what like a year and a half now but with work
stuff. It's work.
Its work. There are repercussions like
nobody on Tick-Tock cares. If I clean my craft room or not,
is it slowly ruining my marriage also?
Yes, but like for me I'm like one is work and one is
Superfluous to getting my work done and so I worry about the
work stuff and a lot of times like my like the thrust of It
suffers and that's been a trend for a really long time.
I'm great at work. I'm very bad at everything else.
Well, I think you and I What the fuck am I talking about?
Well, you know what bad? No I was just thinking is the
topics for episodes. I realized let's start framing
those as jumping off points. Today's jumping off point is
working from, who knows? Where we go from there, but
that's the Jaffa got I just, I don't know.
I still feel like I don't have anything useful to say about
working from home because my advice is like, hey, kids burn
yourselves out and make yourself miserable all the time.
I don't think it's true. I mean for one have a cautionary
tale. Well that's well.
I mean one, everybody's a cautionary Tale.
Tail. Because nobody's perfect.
That's the thing. And two, I don't think I'm
certain I don't want to say all people, but I'm certainly not
interested in learning from anybody who's perfect that Eric,
if I try just a little bit harder, I probably could be.
That's problem. Hey, Katie, you know, you won't
know I'm sorry. But that's what my ship at
grades is just tried a little bit harder.
I could be perfect. I know I could Eric, I know I
could well if I could be a little bit harsh to both of us
more Hearts to me than you, but still both ways.
You can be I think you and I both avoid the Problem of
work-life balance and very similar but opposite ways.
What do you mean? Well, I think to roast me, I
feel like, no, no, I'm about to be very honest about a problem
that both of I of us have okay, but I think the problem is more
problematic with me than it is with you.
But okay, also I want you to know that if I start crying
right now, it's not because you roasted me is because I have
really bad cramps. All those.
I'm sorry. It's okay.
Do you want a little nevermind? I'm gonna lose like Let's do
other thing that we do and it never mind.
I'm going to talk about that. Anyways.
Wow, Eric I'm gonna fuck Jesus, I don't know.
I just spotted it in. That's what an ADHD spotter.
Looks like you talking about. Are you go find a heating past?
When somebody eats the spotters out like that, always laugh at
them and makes them feel much better.
I'm sorry. Sorry, I know what you're
talking about, but I think you and I both approach or avoid the
problem of work-life balance and very similar, but opposite ways,
okay? Whereas with you, Well for
large. So with for me, the Leisure, the
fuck everything. I'm just going to be as
comfortable as possible, because ultimately I think that's what a
major problem for me, is that I seek Comfort a lot of the time.
It's a depression thing. It's a bunch of stuff, but I
seek comfort and it's really pleasure.
Yeah. And that, that that Leisure
never leaves me as I'm working. It's always there that, like,
you could totally just stop doing all of this right now.
Like and I play the tape out. Like, what happens if I never
worked another day in my life? Well, I'd eventually lose my
house. I would lose everyone with my
friends and I live on the street, but I could do that, you
know, like I play that. Anyways the word the Leisure
never leaves me even when I'm working and that often causes me
to work far less than I think I should be.
Whereas for you, the work never leaves you when you're doing
Leisure things, when you're were watching, Lego Masters and
stuff. I'm so uncomfortable.
The work never leaves you. It's always with you and I think
that's I don't want to die. I found it before.
That's how we avoid the workload, but I think you and I
both have problems with work and play in our in our balancing of
them. But in exact opposite ways,
where I have a really hard time shutting out, the the constant
awareness that I could just say, fuck all this and go lie in bed
for the next 10 years or whatever whereas you are always
like, if I just work harder, I could be doing more, I could be
getting more done and that's a voice that you can't show up in
the same way that my leisure thing is, of course, that I
can't shut up. And together, we make one
functioning company. It's a this like and together
we're almost a whole person. Well for me my Saving Grace,
with all that is always been hyper-focus.
That's the only time that the Leisure goes away is its when
I'm getting enough dopamine from the the project that I'm working
on that. I now seek the the pleasure of
working on this project and seeing it come out better and
better. And seeing the finished project
sort of emerged from the marble or whatever.
That's more pleasant to me than the comfort that I could be
seeking is And I think so, for example, you know, if I have to
edit a podcast like I have in my head I have what I want the
podcast to be before, as like, right now as we're talking, like
I know how I want it to sound and know where I'm going to put
the interstitials. I'm going to like, all that
stuff. And so once I'm editing, I'm
just in float State. Like, I just, I'm getting closer
and closer to that finished product.
And then the Leisure leaves me. But it's the stuff that's not
exciting. That's, that's really difficult.
And that's again, like I think one of the most important things
to understand about ADHD that like, if I could Snap my fingers
and have everybody understand this.
It's that the executive dysfunction that comes with ADHD
is not a choice or a result of laziness.
It's just not, it's, you know, there are plenty of times when
it's like, I'm willing to work. I'm willing to White Knuckle.
I'm willing to be uncomfortable, but I just don't know what it is
or if I do know what it is, it only lasts for about five
seconds before. I decide it's actually something
else and there's no amount of white knuckling that can get
around. That those are, that's when
systems come to play. And I think that's what this you
do. You know, the function of your
schedule is and prep lists, and Like I think I think that's why
I feel so guilty. Like, about this episode is
because like, I don't ever want anybody to feel like they're,
they're being, you know, lazy, like when they're Paralyzed by
indecision, or they're just like, overwhelmed by a task, or
like that kind of thing. Because like, I can even begin
to count the number of times that I've put off something that
I could have done 30 seconds because it was just like too
big, you know? But then it's like, okay, well I
haven't sent the email in two weeks and I would be awkward.
So I'm going to put it off for another week and then at some
point I'm going to like, you know what I mean?
And it just like it could be going to be comes at like
impossible task. And so that's like that's like
the real struggle that I have like genuinely is because my
relationship with motivation is is I mean dysfunctional e
functional, I think like up to a point but then at a certain
point like I realized like I just like exactly what you said.
I don't have the same compassion for myself that I have for other
people, you know, because it's like, you know, if you are
having a bad day and you can't do your dishes.
Sir, whatever. Like I will help you, I will
support you. I will find a solution like, of
course and like you're not a bad person and you're not lazy.
And I do, I'd like motive, like, well, why weren't you motivated
enough to do your dishes like that?
Thought, never a curse to me to have but the minute, like, I
walk out of the office and I see the pile of boxes that have been
sitting in my hallway for a year because I've been so wrapped up
in my work. That's when I feel like a piece
of shit and I'm like, well, it's so easy for me to just like go
into my office. And you know, just submit to 100
conventions or whatever the fuck that I'm doing that day.
But like, why can't I just walk this box into my craft room?
Well, because the answer is the minute of that going at the
craft room, I freaked out because my craft room is so bad
that like I like I just go I can I'm not I'm going to just go
back to work where it's safe, you know, and so that's sorry,
you go ahead. What do I?
I just I think one of the the secondary benefits of Doing a
task that's overwhelming or feels overwhelming.
I think one of the secondary benefits of that is the
reassurance, that it's actually not that bad.
You know, or oftentimes, it's actually not that bad.
I mean, you've seen my craft as well.
That's why I'm naked too often. It was like know that that one
is a big. But like, you know, for me, if I
have, like a couple dishes in my sink, I think doing stuff like
that. It has the immediate benefit of
now you're you now. Your dishes are clean, so that's
great. But it has the secondary benefit
of being a under that like oh it really does only take a minute
and a half you know because when as sort of like you know texting
a friend that you haven't texted back or well that's a I'll leave
it at one example or a solar levels are making a list the
longer we put that stuff off The more our brain is going to
assume that it's just fucking awful because I've been putting
off for so long, it must be terrible.
You know. It they're the only reason I
would put it off for so long. Is if it is, monumentally
difficult and when we do those things we remind ourselves that
often times. They are not.
And I just think that's that's important to clarify.
So like, oftentimes when I do my dish which you know, I have a
really hard time with dishes Kitty, you you just hide your
listener yesterday. We put all the dirty dishes in.
My sink into a trash bag and took them outside of Katie's
house and sprayed them with a hose before running them twice
through her dishwasher. So I'm not great at dishes all
the time, but I think I know why, and I know what I'm good at
dishes. I also think I know and you want
to know what Eric, I still think just as highly of you as I did
before we host on your dishes in my backyard because I love you
and I know that sometimes you struggle to do the dishes and
that doesn't change the way, I think about you because I'm
nicer too. People that I'm I'm to myself.
Well thank you, I probably would have broke up with you if it was
the other way around because I wouldn't have been able to look
you in the eye so that you're not breaking, please don't break
up with me. If I helped you with your dishes
he's will try really hard not to thank you at least we'll talk
first but anyway. So you know same to you.
Like I don't think I'm not interested in learning from
somebody who's perfect, which doesn't matter because nobody's
perfect. So I don't have to worry about
that. But you know what?
Any advice. Sure, anytime I talk about these
sorts of things, I'm absolutely not coming from a place of like
I am incredible at it. It's that it's my job to just
think about it all day. Try to figure out why I'm bad at
the things. I'm bad at and why I'm good at
the things that I'm good at when I'm good at them.
I just had a podcast breakthrough.
Oh shit. Yeah, I can see it on your face.
I think. Well.
I have feelings, but I think that part of it for me is
because I was diagnosed so late that I had to come up with my
own systems, and the guilt that I feel is because for me, I had
to like, develop systems on my own.
I had to develop those strategies on my own and I
developed them thinking that I was alone and broken and a fuck
up. Etc, and on and on and on and on
and on and so. Now for my actual job people
come to me and they say, well, how do I make an efficient
system? And the answer is I don't know.
I don't I don't know how to do it because I'm not you.
And so I feel like every time somebody goes, well, how do I
find the motivation to take out the garbage?
I go, I don't know, because I'm not you and I can tell you what
I do. It's that I just take out the
garbage but that's not helpful. Because the people who come to
us, who are looking for answers, are looking for an answer,
they're not just asking to ask, you know, what I mean?
And so like, I feel, I think this like weird sense of like
guilt and imposter syndrome like at the same time because my
answer is I didn't I'd like, I didn't know it was okay to ask
people for help and so people come to me asking for help and I
go, oh, I don't, that's not a thing that I do.
So I don't know how to help you and I think that's weird.
Hmm I don't know what the fuck. I just said can we just delete
this entire episode? I will you want consents
important? Now I know this but you know
what I mean? Yeah.
It's like the weird feeling of being like I want to help you
but I have no idea how to help you because the way that I help
Self was just figuring it out on my own and it's like, I don't
want to ever look at somebody and go, we'll figure it out on
your own, but that, but a lot of times, like that's what you have
to do, because the system that works for me may very well, not
at all work for you. But then it's like, well is it
helpful to just hear, you know, Kate and Erik talk about the
systems that they do use so you can listen and go?
Oh wow, that sounds like a terrible system or oh, hey,
maybe that's a system that I could try.
Oh no, well feel so weird about it.
You know what? I keep saying that.
Well, you can try and talk. Well, you know, the quote, I
don't know to distribute tribute to, but I think it was Edison,
but he was a piece of shit anyways.
But anyway, he said I didn't fail at making a light bulb.
I just figured out 99 ways to not, make a light bulb and I
think that's the same thing as every time somebody gives a data
point of how they do something, whether that thing would work
for you or not, it's another data point, were you to go?
Oh now I know that that's not going to work for me.
So it's all information, you know?
And also secondly I think This is perhaps my brain like craving
order because sometimes it's my brain is so chaotic.
But I think as you zoom out of a person learning to manage their
ADHD, which again I just want always want to clarify.
That's not a place that you reach.
You never just finish that and you get the the you know the
credits roll at the end of the game.
That's not how it works but in everybody's journey of learning
to manage their ADHD and live with their ADHD, I'm convinced
that there's some In common with all of them, I don't know what
that is. Some people benefit from making
rigid schedules. Some people benefit from not at
all making rigid schedules. Like my dad, for example, has
had a very on at least on paper successful life.
I don't speak for how we fulfilled.
He feels as a person because that's not up to me but he's
been very successful professionally at least and he
never had his schedule. He just his brain works the way
it worked and when he had to do stuff he would sure he would put
it out but eventually it would be crunch time and you know but
his method worked for him it would stress my I'm the fuck
Island because it would never work for her but it worked for
him. So anyways, I think I'm
convinced that all those things have something in common and for
example an easy one is just the urge to be have a better life, I
guess whatever better means to you.
And Oh gosh, you're going to hate me when I say this, you're
going to hate me. You're good, Eric, these
microphones. I know, I know I know what is
it? Eric one thing that I suspect
I'm not claiming all the way but I suspect that everybody who
everybody who has on their journey of trying to manage
their own HD has in common one thing that I suspect it is
Katie, what is Hope? Yeah, truly I mean I'm out I
don't have a problem with that. All right.
No. Well, you should stop saying
things. I like literally went to the
Kennedy Center. In read a poem about Hope one
time true. I'm big on Hope and then Gaddafi
got killed. Yeah, no unrelated.
But I so like I had a very cynical fate like I was very
cynical person and still in a lot of ways and you know, one of
my, you know, life's Journeys is trying to combat my own
cynicism, but as very cynical about the idea of hope I fucking
hated that word, it was just a thing that was like, embroider
on pillows and should I hated it?
Until somebody said something to me in a way that really he
clicked with my brain. I think about all the time he
said hope is just the belief excuse me.
Did he say, believe? He said, hope is just the
realization that there's a greater than zero percent
chance, that things will get better.
If you can acknowledge that, there is a nonzero chance that
you will learn to manage your ADHD and you will learn to love
yourself, and you will learn to be better, whatever that means
to you, then you by definition have hope.
And it is a rational to believe that there is a zero percent
chance. Because, of course, there's not
because the universe is infinite.
So, of course, there is a chance that you will get better.
That you will be more loving towards yourself.
And I think whether we're aware of it or not, if we are on a
journey of self-discovery, which if you are listening, To this
podcast. I suspect you the kind of person
who is then you have hope it's not, it's not it's not up for
debate really. I mean I believe you dear
listener would acknowledge that there's a greater than zero
percent chance, that things will get better because that's true
in there is. And by that definition you have
hope and I think that's what, what, all people who are
managing their own mental illness, have in common, what do
they call it? Hope or not.
That's really nice. Thanks and of pot.
That's yeah, that's fine. Everybody that's it.
That's the end of the episode boy, but as is now tradition.
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