Hello, welcome back to infinite quests.
Thanks for being here. So, Kate is sick this week.
We just got back from a convention.
It is not covid. She's tested several times, but
she is not feeling super hot. So on very short notice.
I texted a friend of mine. Tim Ahern from Tick-Tock.
Who is Tim underscore Ahern underscore art on Tick, Tock,
please go follow them. I called them and asked if they
wanted to come chat with me. Podcast this week.
So what follows is my conversation with?
Tim Ahern, we talked about his diagnosis history with ADHD.
We talked about how video games support persistence and
learning. We talked about how failure is
super important to the creative process and to bettering
yourself as a person and what not.
So have a good time. I hope you really enjoyed the
conversation. It starts sort of officially at
about 7 Minutes in. If you want to skip the little
intro where we Bailey, Can I get two fucking seconds, please.
Can I get two seconds? I know a podcast is so far
outside of your realm of understanding, but it for just a
second, we can dr. Dolittle this, that would be
amazing. Thank you very much Bailey.
Anyways, enjoy my conversation with Tim Ahern.
Well, mr. Tim and her, and thank you so
much for being here, dude. Thank you.
Thanks so much for coming on. Such short notice.
I, for those of us for context. I probably said some of this in
the intro, but Katie got abruptly sick and couldn't do
the podcast today. So I just had to call somebody
who I like, who admittedly has ADHD and who I have the contact
for and you checked all those boxes fantastically, especially
the first one you're great. I like you very much.
Thank you. Well, my plan all along has been
to take over Katie's space. Ehsan Tick-Tock.
And so, this is just the obvious next step to take over the
podcast. And, and who knows what happens
next year? Naturally.
Next is, after that the glasses after, that's the dinosaur.
Yeah. Exactly.
I'll start challenging you with some crafting things.
I think that the two masters degrees in Shakespeare.
I think that's going to be the longest time commitment to it,
but you'll get there, you'll get there.
I'm hyper Focus. Anything is possible.
Exactly. Right?
How you doing? What?
You been up to? I'm not.
Well, I mean, I would, I that's not true.
I was about to say not too much. But yeah, I've been, I've been
doing a lot of carpentry and woodworking, which is, you know,
I feel I talk about this sometimes on my Tick Tock, but I
always feel really guilty when I start a new hobby, or whoring
hyper-focus. Because originally, my whole
Tick-Tock in my whole, like, reason for being was, I was
going to make an art. That's why my Tick Tock is Tim.
I heard art. The whole idea was I was going
to make a bunch of art content. And now, now I'm doing a gaming
table and building a deck and thinking about making Dean
decomp content, and I just learned Hero Forge, which I will
do. You have you ever heard of hero
for lunch? That's where you make like the
the models for D and D the little, the little guys, right?
Yeah. Yeah.
It's ridiculously awesome. It's a if you had got any 3D
modeling experience, it mean, If you don't have any, it's like
the best thing ever, because it's very much point-and-click,
but then you can, if you do have 3D modeling experience, you can
basically build your D&D character, 80% of the way,
export an STL and then modify it further and then 3D print it and
make your. So I have a character right now
who's a frog and so and like surprisingly, I was able to make
an entire frog monk character. Who's Got marvelous, magical
paints and looks very timid and and confused.
And yeah, so whole penis to. Yeah, I mean, well actually, you
know, my blog is my frog is intersects because we don't
know, you know, he could change his gender at any time.
Depending on the ratio to mail the females, exactly as frogs
are famous for doing. That's right.
Life. Finds a way.
So, I am building a modular penis that I can attach to them
at some point. Or are you actually doing that?
No, I But they're just boys fucking lying.
That's amazing. The most ridiculous thing.
Like some kind of modular magnetic penis that I can attach
to my frog depending on his gender and and also, you know in
combat situations which oh, yeah, which is when you use the
miniature. So yeah, of course in Mayan
Katie's D&D campaign, we have a talking horse named or talking
Unicorn named Tony whose main weapon is his own penis.
That's nice beats beats. In fact, I think Me saying that
out loud now is the first time we've ever actually canonized
that like it's strongly implied. But we usually try to like, cut
it off. But now it's official, if any of
you were wondering, Tony is just beating people up with his big
ol, massive Bad Dragon, you know, that's that's amazing.
He hey, I'm trying to think there's got to be some unicorn
joke. I mean, it doesn't happen again.
He's a Duo. Corn was born on the corn.
You two horns. I don't know.
I suppose he did do a whole bit in the Getting we're like, he
used like unicorn healing Magic on my character blumpkin, but
he, he was like, yeah, you gotta gotta suck on my horn first and
so he did and it was very funny. Yeah.
Anyways, go ahead circles to digress from fantasy animal,
penises of varying, sizes, and and danger levels.
I would love to ask you about your idea to history if that's
all right, with you. Yeah, yeah, um.
Trying to think of where the best place to start is your
dad's balls. Yes.
So I used to live there, straight back to penises.
Oh my God. I'm usually I usually do this
podcast with with man men. So it's like, oh, I have
another, dude. You're gonna make stupid dude.
Dick jokes, huh? Goddamn.
I did not expect it to be this bad though.
Yeah, Katie leaves for like five minutes, Souls all dicks.
This way around. I can't talk at.
We're gonna start talking about n ftes or something like that
pretty soon. Oh, yeah.
Cryptocurrency. Yeah, dude.
Yeah, totally. If I'm not talking about my
dad's balls. I'm talking about cryptocurrency
and all right. If he wasn't talking about his
dad's balls, talking about cryptocurrency.
Yeah, but my autobiography for sure.
And let's just be clear. He never really talked about
cryptocurrency. I'm here to talk about
cryptocurrency and my dad's balls and I'm tired of talking
about cryptocurrency. Jesus Christ.
Oh, man. So, excuse me.
You're very serious. Mental mental disorder that we
were discussing. Pardon me.
I'm sure. Your dad is a lovely.
You gotta edit all this out, right?
Yeah. It's gonna be one long beep.
Good. Good good.
Yeah, so I was I think like a lot of people you, you see
people with ADHD growing up and living your life and my gut
reaction was always basically like Wow, I definitely don't
have ADHD because I can sit down and like, I learned how to oil
paint, you know, I taught myself how to oil paint and I would do
it for 13, 14, 15 hours, straight and stay up all night,
oil painting. So like that's not ADHD because
ADHD is when a little kid can't sit at a desk and pay attention.
Like that was my only real definition and that was, you
know, I think that's the popular narrative.
A lot of people have is ADHD is just children.
Are hyperactive. And then they take Ritalin or
Adderall and and are somehow lesser than afterwards, which
obviously is patently false or You know, basically never was
part of my narrative, that there are, there's a whole spectrum
and different manifestations and different types of ADHD.
And so, I just grew up feeling stupid and, and had anxiety and
depression and all the comorbidities that come with
ADHD and and it was it was strange because like I didn't
have like a ton of issues with School per se, I was able to
basically, I think I was very motivated because I had so many
hobbies and extracurricular activities, and I knew that if I
my grades had slipped too much. I would lose the ability to do
those things. You know, my parents would meet
up my parents not to villainize, make them sound like overly
strict or anything. But, you know, if my grades were
to slip Beyond a certain point, they really want me to College,
they really had all this stuff. And so, I had this fear that if
I didn't Excel to a certain level, that I would lose my
ability to be in three different bands and also be part of the
drama club and also be part of chorus and also have D&D every
weekend, because I had a D&D group from 6th grade up through
college, same people, and it was really cool.
Yeah, it was actually like a very formative experience in my
life. Is I ended up in a D&D group in
sixth grade. And I, and I like, literally,
I'm planning to get together with them for dinner and I'll
get like, like they live all over the place now, but, but
like they are just like lifelong friends.
Wow, that's frankly, impressive. I have a really hard time doing
stuff like that. Keeping up with groups of
people, or that's really impressive.
Say that that's like categorically good.
There's nothing wrong with not doing that.
But anyway, it's best thing to me.
Well, I mean, in every other part of my life, I've had that
kind of object permanence issue where I just and, and again like
basically, when I got diagnosed, I took a notebook and I wrote
every single thing I didn't like about myself and then I was
like, this is all these, these are all ADHD.
Comorbidities think and a big one was like object permanence
and we as it was relates to people sometimes.
Yeah, like they're there are times where I kind of look back
and I'm like, well, I literally just stopped talking to that
person and and that probably was like really hurtful or I didn't
end that relationship in a very clear way or in a positive way.
And those are like the things that keep me up at night and I
used to really blame on myself and not that I don't.
Not to say that. I'm absolved a blame or
responsibility for how I handled interpersonal relationships, but
it does After I got through the idea that my entire personality
was just a list of negative symptoms related to neuro
Divergence. I was kind of able once I came
to terms with it and went to therapy for a while.
It actually gave me a great language to describe myself in a
way that wasn't pejorative or explain myself, especially to my
spouse. One of my favorite stories.
So man. See this is, I've you ask me a
question. I don't even know.
I have got like three different ways that I want to get to the
end, please basically like Am I talking too much?
By the way, we're not. You are absolutely not talking
too much. This is a podcast.
You ask me a question. I'm just gonna do place.
Also. I just want to tell you.
Have you ever been on a podcast or do you have a podcast?
I don't, I've been on, like, my friends had a podcast but I
don't know if they marketed it or we're taking it very
seriously, but like I'm, this is the first like, like official
podcast I've ever been on. So, thank you again for having.
Oh, you're very welcome. Thanks for being.
Um, but yeah, you yeah. In the beginning, you generally
feel like you're talking too much bigger.
Like, wait a minute. That's the point of this.
That's what this is. So please, if anybody's
listening right now, they're listening consensually because
they want to hear what you have to say.
So everybody listen to me right now.
Okay. So yeah, basically the main the
main catalyst for me getting diagnosed was I'd been working
at a company for a while, as video editor.
Oh, so you were diagnosed later. Yeah.
So, so sorry I was diagnosed.
Most just like two years ago. Actually, right right during the
presidential election, really? Because I remember feeling super
calm. I had just gotten medicated for,
I got an Adderall and I had gotten Lexapro and I remember
sitting on the couch and everybody was kind of freaking
out and I just remember thinking weird.
I feel a lot better than I usually did and everything feel
I know everything. Bad and stressful.
But I actually like my, I'm usually, if I, if my normal
level was like a 10, then I feel like I'm at a three right now
and that created this whole debate of like, what am I?
Am? I a bunch of neurochemicals
firing off and now I've altered them with substances permanently
and I've changed who I am inherently and, and like, and
I'm saying that while taking a sip of beer.
Right now, which was, you know, before I was medicated, I was
drinking 9 cups of coffee a day and then drinking a bunch of
bourbon at night. So it's like at some point.
It's like, why don't you have a doctor do that for you?
If you have somebody like, help control that safely dial it in.
Yeah, so like that, that ended that debate for me.
But yeah, so basically, I had been working as a video editor.
And I was humblebrag very successful at it.
And then I got to a point in my career where I wasn't editing as
much, I was managing a team and help talking to people about
their Career Development and how they could progress further in a
company and trying to do, you know, process improvements for
our workflow, and all of these different things, that weren't
really work creative. We're much.
Or organizational and much more strategic, I guess.
And, and that wasn't my favorite, you know, there was a
lot of Confrontation, a lot of scheduling, a lot of
organization, a lot of meetings and I was realizing that that
wasn't kind of what I wanted. I wanted to be doing, I wanted
to be drying, I want to be painting.
I want to be making videos. I want to be creative and my
wife. At the same time was having the
opposite experience of she was working part-time.
Employee at a company and a stay-at-home mom and she got
this crazy opportunity where they were like, hey, like you
could make this huge jump and get all these new
responsibilities, but you'd have to be full-time.
And so, she came to me and she's like, I've been a stay-at-home
mom for five years. You keep complaining about how
your job is not quite what you want it to be.
What if we switch had originally?
I had tried freelancing at the beginning of my career, but I,
that was the beginning of my career.
And now I had These industry contacts.
So I was like, yeah, like that's a great idea.
So we made, I gave my notice at the company.
I was working at. And then literally the next day,
the economy crashed. And then a day later.
I was taking a week off. So my wife could could fly out
on a business trip and then there was a travel ban and then
and then I never got to go back to my office because the sale
Home order happened. So it was kind of like in the
end. I was like, why did I quit?
My job to stay at home. When, if I, if I had done
nothing, just working from home. But the what, what was really
the moment of of real frustration, or, or Clarity, or
whatever, or Agony was, we made the switch.
And my wife started working full-time and I was taking care
of two toddlers and nobody could come and help me.
Because it was quarantine. I couldn't take them anywhere.
We couldn't go anywhere and, and I In my mind, I knew that I knew
intellectually. I was like, this is what I've
always wanted. Like I have the freedom to work.
Whenever I want on whatever project I want.
I'm being financially supported. I'm in a loving relationship.
I'm getting to spend a lot of time with my children who I, you
know, with a commute to Boston and at where I live, you know, I
was spending hours and hours away from home and getting home
when their kids were going to bed and never really A chance to
see them as like, everything is great.
This is kind of the dilek situation.
I can paint all day. I can be creative.
I can do all this stuff. Why can't I get out of bed
anymore? Why am I feeling so depressed?
I started disassociating and having like some severe panic
attacks and it didn't help that. There is a pandemic and we were
trying to sell our house and we were having to do all of these
different. Things like there was a lot of
other end, you know, the presidential election.
Like I said, like, there's all this stuff happening, but I was
like, I'm so ridiculously unhappy.
And what I started to realize was, even though I didn't
realize it. I had developed.
All these coping mechanisms for ADHD kind of as a like a A way
of surviving and they all depended on isolation.
So I would be on the train and I would get a bunch of writing
done because I was always trying to write a novel or something.
And then I would binge my podcast on my 45-minute walk
from the train station and then I would drink eight cups of
coffee a day. Sometimes probably more and I
would I would go for long walks. I would go for a long thought,
full walks. I'd go for walks to get coffee.
Um, and if I had a hyper-focus like I hyper-focused on chess,
I'd go, I'd be to chest book where I'd play chess online at
eat my lunch by myself and kind of recharge.
I would I'd had a little watercolor kit in my backpack.
I'd go in somewhere and I would paint people and do people
watching and sketching and then when you're home with kids in
theory, you can create your whole routine, however you want,
but they are always there. Like they, they tend to need a
lot of help when they're toddlers.
They can't just go to the grocery store and it's not like,
but I mean, there's like you everybody knows that being a
stay-at-home parent is hard and that managing a household is
hard and keeping it clean and going grocery shopping and meal
planning doing laundry. All those things are hard but
there is a flag for the first three weeks.
I was the happiest guy in the world and then I sort of came to
this. Addition of like, there's no
break. There's no weekend.
This will never end. I will never finish the laundry.
I will never finish cleaning this kitchen.
I will never even poop by myself again because every time I try
to go to the bathroom, there is someone kicking the door in
quite literally and saying, like, somebody broke my
thingamajigger or like I can't make this work, you know, and I
love my kids and like, I'm so grateful that I get to be with
them, but there was a There's just this glass shattering,
like, oh my God, I cannot manage never-ending long-term projects
and manage my own routine every day with no break.
A no reset time and my wife was super supportive and she was
like, take your time figure this out.
But after a few months she was like, yeah, what's up?
Okay, are you doing, okay? And so I went to therapy and and
I honestly I think at some point I was on I was figuring out and
learning Tick-Tock and looking at Tick-Tock sighs.
I probably saw content by k.t. And by you and some other
creators. And I did that thing that I
think is typical of a lot of people with undiagnosed ADHD.
When they say everybody goes through this, everybody laughter
uses. Everybody picks something up,
and then turns around and it's gone.
Everybody, you know, does has all these problems where they
feel like, they're lost all the time and can't remember anything
and and I really struggling with mundane things kit and you know,
No, feel stupid depressive, pushes.
The Piano Man of ADHD Skeptics. Yeah, a free bird or something.
And finally, my wife was like dude.
No, I don't relate to a single thing that you are saying.
Do you really feel that way? You really feel that strongly
that this is like a common experience and I was like, ah
you okay. And so then I talk to somebody.
I got diagnosed. I didn't believe them.
So I went I was like, really I was like, you're obviously this
person's a hack and so, I went and got a second opinion.
I got diagnosed again and I was like jeez.
Okay, that's crazy. Because I just I just like
really felt this kind of initially.
I just felt this defeat in a way like, oh like this confirms.
There's something wrong with me. Hmm.
This confirms that like It was really hard at first, for me to
like. Celebrate and being their
neurodivergent. Because I had spent kind of my
whole life trying to prove to people that I was as smart as
them and feeling kind of inadequate, and having
self-esteem issues, and all these things, and then learning
learning that I was different for real.
Really, like, hit me in a way that wasn't great.
And then I and then I started taking medication and then and
then I had a second. Like morning of like dear Lord.
Is this? How is this?
What it is? Like to be normal?
Like I took Adderall and I was like, yeah, I'll God, it's like
someone went into the my brain settings and switched.
Everything. I was like the toilet is so
disgusting like I gotta clean this.
So did you know, what do you mean morning?
M ourn ing? Yes, like I was grieving all of
the time that I lost and end and I remember telling my wife, I
was like, I now know that I'm actually pretty smart.
And I can do all of these things that I'm capable of
understanding and focusing and interpreting and having
conversations with clarity about complicated topics, but
literally, no one else will know that.
Like everybody has this expectation of me.
That is so low because of how I functioned my whole life and I
just felt this like really yeah like this grief of like, I
always I always felt like, Like, somehow simultaneously that I
was smarter than everybody. I knew.
And the also, the dumbest person that's that had that hits really
close to home because I always sort of felt that to, like,
throughout High School. I was always like, I'm the
smartest fucking guy other but I'm failing all my classes and
I'm like, so clearly even if I'm that smart.
I'm pretty stupid to not use it, you know, or something like
that. It was, it was always some
mental gymnastics that eventually ended in me thinking
I was a piece of shit. And, and, you know, it just
turns out that like, there's a diversity of intelligences and,
and skills. And like, I have a lot of
weaknesses. Like I have trouble perceiving
time. I have trouble organizing myself
in a in a very like, clear way. And, and geography, and names,
and numbers. Like, if I took a history test,
or somebody asked me, like, even it's a joke that like, I live in
a town and I couldn't really tell you where all the other
towns that I go to all the time are in relation to my town.
That's like, well, that's pretty common.
That's a lot of people can't do that.
Do you? Do you have a Fantasia by any
chance? Can you picture things in your
head? What kind of well, I'm as an as
a visual artist, I can definitely Picture things in
that way and envision them and I often will do, but I will often
rely on tools like Photoshop and, and like, and kind of do
photo bashing to plan out, a painting to sort of help because
I'll see how I have a vision of how I want things in my head,
but it's not clear. It's very hazy.
I have to kind of iteratively work it out which turns out to
be my learning style and what I've I didn't ever feel
confident in growing up. look like, For some reason, when
always Pops in my head, first is mowing the lawn.
Hmm. My dad wanted me to mow the lawn
when I was a teenager and he had this very specific way.
He wanted me to mow the lawn and I would get so nervous and
anxious about failing or disappointing him or doing it
wrong. That I wouldn't be able to have
a it incredible working memory, but a terrible long-term memory,
but by working memory doesn't work.
Great when I'm like in fight or flight mode.
And so I would do think I would just would never quite figured
it out and what I've and he and then he eventually just was
like, okay, like never mind. I'm not I don't think you're
going to figure this out and and you know, that kind of pattern
of things contributed over time to me having super low
self-esteem feeling. Like I just couldn't get things
that other people could get. I didn't know how to drive from
my school to my house because I was always reading Being in the
car and didn't really care. I was like a GPS will tell me if
I need to. Like I have other things that
are more important and I want to remember.
But what I've discovered light too late in life is that failure
is such an important part of progression.
And, and I like, even like this. I'm rebuilding my deck right
now. I've never built a deck.
I've just, I keep finding wrought.
All I had I was going to just replace some And I realized the
railings were dangerous. So I took all the railings and
and I learned what a balusters was and I was like, now I'm like
a expert at the code of our state on how this deck should be
and and I refuse to ask anybody to come over and help me do it.
Like, talk, like people. Keep offering.
Okay, I'll come over and help you.
And I'm like, no, no. Don't come over because I need
to screw this up a lot. And if you're there, Giving me
advice or preventing me from making the mistakes.
Then I won't make those mistakes and then I won't have a, I won't
have internalized the error. Like I with painting, I had to
paint so many things badly and learn.
How long does oil paint needs to dry before.
You can do another layer. How much medium do you need to
mix into it before? It becomes a transparent gloss
and he to ruin You need to ruin so many things before that,
those lessons internalized because otherwise otherwise just
watching tutorials and having someone tell me, I just don't
pay attention. Just goes in one ear and out the
other. So like, I've become, I've
started off as a terrible, terrible Carpenter and and
ruined so many things. And, but through all of those
mistakes, I have now become like very competent at a lot of
different Hobbies. Because I know that that smile,
Learning style. I know, I have to make all the
mistakes and find all of the roadblocks that I'm going to
face. And then when I'm watching
tutorials, I know exactly what information I need because
there's so much information out there.
But if I know like, I just can't figure out why my posts are
wobbly. And I've tried doing this.
I've tried doing that and I've tried these screws on try, this
technique. Now.
I know now I have a problem actively that I am trying to
solve a very short term goal. I'm not trying to learn how to
build an entire deck. I'm trying to learn how to do
one small, baby step and I went. Oh, he needs two carriage bolts,
and that's not what you have right now.
So I go by those and I put them in and I do it wrong.
Like, okay. Well, why why did that not work?
And then I go and find more tutorials and that's and that's
been a style of learning that I think is kind of demonized in
our culture. Like if you fail at something a
lot of people will give up. Yeah and and like the lawn
mowing such a scenario. Like when I failed I was met
with disappointment and I was met with kind of like, okay,
never mind you're not. Good at this.
We're not going to do this. And so now, when I'm playing
game video games with my kids or, or they do something and
they, they don't quite meet their own expectations.
I'm trying so hard to make a point to them.
I'm like, it's so cool. How hard you're working.
I like, and I'm so glad that you you went outside of your comfort
zone and like reached out to try to achieve this thing that you
did not already know. Like, why would you try to learn
something that you're good at? You know?
Yeah, but it doesn't, if you're good at it.
You don't need to learn it. So like you are doing Something
brand new and exciting. And, and that's what failure
really is. Yeah, and I think too many
people turn it into this self-worth conversation.
Internally. Yeah, it's almost like it's a
measurement. Like, I'm measuring my worth
with this task, and by failing at it.
I have received a measurement that I'm a piece of shit or I'm
in invariably bad at this, no matter what.
Right. Exactly.
And and the secret that I've learned through have, Having
thousands probably a hyper focus is at this point is that there
is almost nothing that you can't learn with enough patience.
Like I never thought I was smart enough to do electronics because
I saw something like Ohm's law and I was like, no, I'm not good
at math. I can't do this.
I started playing chess really aggressively because I because I
was like, I've never been good at chess, and I know that I'm
bad at logic, like I'm not good. Taking the next logical step.
I'm not smart enough to plan multiple steps ahead and and
that's sort of Talk is very limiting and very prophetic.
Like, what's the word? It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Like, I can talk all day about how bad I am at logic, but the,
the actual obvious answer when you pull yourself back from
these societal Norms as well. That's where you should be
leaning into that. You should be leaning into what
you perceive as a flaw or a shortcoming because Practice is
what makes progress. And so by learning chess.
I started to be able to think three or four moves ahead during
chess games and I started learning all these chess
openings, which then made it easier for me to learn scales on
my guitar because I was like, wait, that's kind of cool.
The scales of my guitar kind of feel like chess openings all of
a sudden because there's a bunch of different patterns that I'm
learning on the board. And there's a bunch of patterns.
I'm waiting on my fretboard and they are all Malleable I can
change my guitar scale slightly to change its mode and I can
change my chess opening to compensate for what my players
do it. Like, I'm playing this type of
Sicilian now, instead of that type of Sicilian in chess.
And and then from there, I was like, well, now that I have all
of this East new memory skills and logic skills and and
patterns skills. Why don't I go back and try
programming again? Because last time I tried that,
I sucked at it and, and lo and behold Old taking a long break
from that Hobby, and and learning about learning, which I
think is really the true hobby that that I have.
Yeah. At this point, if I'm being
honest with myself, like what I love is learning, most of all
when I went back to programming there are a bunch of
shortcomings that I had perceived in myself that no
longer felt like shortcomings because I had exercise those
muscles. So now it was like, Oh, like, I
can actually logically think through how this programming
Loop might work, or how these these different patterns work.
And so it's just kind of, it's interesting how all these
different things eventually play into.
Sorry. Like I hear my son crying and it
completely shattered, my my thought process.
Okay. Do you need to do you need to go
do a son related? No.
My wife is there.
It's just children have emotions.
He's totally safe and finding Justin to.
I'm glad I'm glad you feel. Free to express his emotions.
That's important. Yeah.
I also think a couple things one about first about video games,
something. I always thought was
fascinating. I thought I started thinking
about this, when I was around 12 years old, playing the video
game. I think it was Jack to of the
Jak and Daxter series. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. One series.
If anybody's looking to get into some PS2 games, what I was, I
was trying to fight this boss and I was just getting my shit
rocked, every time just getting blasted.
Every fucking time. But I kept going back and going
back, and going back, and going back, and going back and
eventually I want. And after that the feeling of
satisfaction after winning and all that was great, but then I
kept thinking like no matter how strong any given boss is in any
video game and no matter how weak, any given character is
like whatever character. You're playing matter.
How weak they are. The boss is 100% of the time,
hopelessly outmatched. Mostly outmatched so long as you
keep going back. It's like a dormammu situation.
Like you can get defeated as many times.
But if you just keep coming back, it doesn't matter about
the differences in the strength and whatever its persistence is
the main strength and I always found that fascinating.
It's what I see like kids like getting your shit rocked in a
video game, but they just keep going back.
It's like, you know you the boss only ever wins.
If you quit, if you stop lying right?
You quit playing then the boss wins, but if you keep going
back, you inevitably Ali will win.
Have you ever played Celeste know?
It sounds familiar. I feel like that's been
recommended to me before. Maybe was you, I would Nikolas.
It's it's um, I think you know, everybody talks about Elder
during and dark souls and all these games that provide this
challenge similar to what you're saying, but Celeste also kind of
thematically integrates that idea into itself.
And I think I cried at the end of that game.
So the game is, is it Platformer, kind of like it's
got some metroidvania elements to it.
But it's also it's like if you mix Metroid with Super Meat Boy,
it's like just a ridiculously painful, jumping puzzles.
That you keep gaining abilities. And keeping like, oh my God, now
that I have this new ability, the entire thing is change and
now I can do all these things with that now.
Yeah, it's this like, very Apple mechanic very amazingly dialed
in physics for the jumping. But the story is also about a
person trying to climb a mountain and everybody's telling
them this mountain is impossible to climb.
You're not going to make it to the top of this.
This character is having all these doubts about their ability
to do it. And that's happening.
Concurrently with you dying, literally a hundred two hundred
times in a row trying to beat these.
It very, very difficult jumping puzzles.
And the further you get into the game.
The more, the, the main character in the game is sort
of, I'm trying not to spoil anything, but there's there's a
whole is like a dark version of the main character that
eventually becomes a focus of the game and, and depression and
overcoming. Obstacles, both real and
emotional. And I mean not to say emotional
and mental obstacles aren't real because our life is all just
experienced from our brain. But but it's, it's a game that
that takes that idea of like, You have infinite chances to
learn. How do you have?
It's Groundhog Day. You can live this day over and
over again until you succeed. The only way to lose is to stop
playing and and it integrates that into the story and into the
character progression within the game in a way that's incredibly
satisfying and very cathartic. And another realization.
I had that that you made me think of was at one point.
I was playing like dark souls or and I was losing over and over
again. And I just had this sudden
revelation of like, They designed this game to be beaten.
Yeah, like like a bunch of designers sat down and they were
like we need to make the game hard.
But nobody in that room was like, let's make a game that end
and this is impossible. Also, we're going to design will
prefer context. Hello, dear listener.
If you don't know what Dark Souls is, Dark Souls is a video
game series has been out for a while now, but it is notoriously
difficult is insanely difficult there.
No difficulty setting is it is just as difficult as it is, and
that's the end of it and the whole game you're just losing
Losing over and over and over and over.
And you have to memorize exactly the pattern of like a bosses
attacks and know exactly how many times you can cast a
certain spell before having to drink a potion that you've put
in a certain slot. So it's accessible and it was,
it's a game that you have to try exceptionally hard in order to
beat, it's become synonymous with difficult to know.
And people will be like, oh, this is the Dark Souls of like
programming language. God.
This is the Dark Souls of mountain biking.
When people use an analogy, when people say, you know, it's the
Dark Souls of, I don't know guitar pieces or something like
that. I want to go.
Okay, so it's really fucking hard but I also go.
Oh, but it's doable and immensely rewarding, right?
And and like, yeah, and that's like the whole idea.
And that's that's something that I think video games actually
taught me. Growing up, was that it was sort
of this. Like I was saying earlier that
failure is part of the process. You can't beat any bus and Dark
Souls. I think, if we're being honest,
without losing a few times, you have to see what the next boss
stage is going to be, you have to get familiar with the moves
and see what unexpected things are going to happen.
If you could beat every bus and Dark Souls the first try there
and well, yeah, that too. It would not be a fun game.
And I think that's something people miss out on to is like,
difficulty is actually sometimes the most amazing part of our
experience. Oh, yeah.
In life. Like, there are a lot of things
where I'm, it's when things get easy.
I'm I abandon them. Yeah, because because there's
there's this inherent conflict that I think everybody craves in
the world and and if you're not Because I mean like all every
story, every movie, every book you read the whole point of that
is, there's a contract and there's somebody growing and
facing a challenge in overcoming it and was soon as your I don't
know if I've just read too many books or watch too many movies.
But as soon as I find my happy ending with a hobby or a video
game, like I was I got obsessed with Call of Duty recently out
of nowhere because I've always hated that culture and that game
but then I was like, wow, I can't stop playing this and I
like I like beating these people online that I And I'm facing.
And then as soon as I unlocked all the guns that I wanted to, I
was like, I have no ambition to play the second.
It seemed everything I wanted to and now moving on to talk to me.
Well, I'll and that's it. Sorry.
Go ahead. Oh, well, one more task.
You've brought up a couple times.
But I love just about the importance of failure and
failure. Practice, as I sometimes call
it, you know, like in Elden ring, which is one of, is a Dark
Souls game, your listener. Yeah.
They're a lot of times when I go into a new boss like I know,
He's a big boss area because they gave me a bunch of health
and shit. Before any Lego shits about to
be a big bad? The first ten easily, ten, or so
attempts at the bus. I intend to fail.
Like I don't even try to wit. I just see what happens or what
happens if I just stand here and do so, like the default move set
of this boss. What do they do?
Okay, then I die. When I go back and I go, okay,
what happens if I maintain a constant distance from the boss?
What if I just try to stay as far?
Okay. I don't do as much, and then
they do this move followed by this move.
And if I'm at this distance away, when that second happens,
they'll do this third one. Okay, and then I died again and
the okay, what happens? If.
And so the first, however, many times failure is the goal.
I'm just trying to get information, and I'm often try
to, I often, you know, say as advice, but I try to live by it,
when intending to do something scary that, I know I'm not
particularly good at. I'm sometimes, I deliberately
set out to do a bad job. Bob, like, if I have to clean a
room or do dishes or settlement, like I'm just going to do a
shitty version of it because even if I do a shitty version of
it, one is better than doing no version of it.
And do I get to know what doesn't work about it like in
the in the culinary world. I was a cook for eight plus
years, The Culinary world was all about doing things, right?
The first time in the only ever doing them correct, which is
fine. Yeah, you know, it makes sense
because you have to sell the food but I always wanted to see
what happened. If it was fucked up so chef.
You have to do this this way and I'm like, okay what happens if
it doesn't and I would get some form of, it doesn't work or you
just don't or something, but why did you know why?
I'm so I would if you know if the boss was ever not looking
and I sort of had the time and whatever I would just like
deliberately fuck something up and then I would go.
Okay. That's why.
So now I'm not just like doing this thing because it's gospel.
I know what I'm trying to get to not happen.
So if I clear my desk off in a shitty way one, it's clear than
it was before, but I also got to know.
Asado this doesn't work because my pens are Out Of Reach or this
doesn't work because the garbage can is too far away.
It's All Information Gain and it's difficult to apply that
kind of thinking, you know, take it from video games or take it
from like, keeping your desk clean and then applying it to
emotional skill that you might not have or emotional literacies
that might not have those curious of asking you are there
any instances in your life where you find it?
Notably difficult to take that failure, practice mentality and
apply it. I mean, yeah, everywhere.
I mean, like, there's, there's no way to be when I don't I have
not found a way to 100% be comfortable with failure.
No, I think it is discomfort. And I think it's necessary
because, yeah, ultimately the, I mean, well, the goal is to not
if to not fail at some point, I spoke.
Well, I don't want to get too far ahead of myself here, but I
get your one. I think, I think what it is.
I think you. You said it perfectly in that
you built. You need to build it in as part
of your process. So like it took me forever to
figure this part out because I eventually internalize the idea
that failure was important, but then I would still come upstairs
from the basement after a day of painting and be like, Kate
fucked up a painting. I can't paint faces.
I'm never doing this again. I'm a failure I suck at life and
I should I've tried and you know what the universe is going to
implode anyway, and all this will be burned and everybody who
ever remembers me will be dead. So like why even bother trying
to do anything at all, and she'd be like, you know, is Art fun
for you like should you maybe stop doing healthy things?
And like, I would go in these spirals, but then what I
eventually figured out by watching people, you know, I was
hitting these blocks and I was like, I am definitely the only
person who's ever tried to paint something and had not work out.
Like anybody who's good at painting will paint something.
It'll just be perfect. Right?
But then what you find out is that painters do the same thing
you are doing in Dark Souls, they sit down and they take the
biggest paintbrush. They've got and they paint the
face in the most basic stupid way possible with the biggest
strokes and the fewest colors that they can and it looks like
a blocky blurry blob and and they're like now I can Exit,
like the important part here is to now, fix it, and refine it,
because before I had a blank canvas, and if I had made the
perfect eye and then made another perfect.
I they might not be perfect in relation to each other.
They V2 perfect eyes pointing in different directions and it
would make a terrible painting. But now that everything is
simple. I don't have to undo any any
effort that I put in, I can just fix things forever, until they
are perfect, the way that I want them.
And, and that Is the cross training that I think you
benefit from learning, many different.
Hobbies when you are writing a novel.
If your FB, if your goal is to do, like what Kurt Vonnegut
claims to do, which is to just write a page until it's perfect
and then go to bed and just, like finish your book, and it's
done or like Stephen, King's was just like dumb.
Like you, you're what most authors do, is they write a
terrible book as their first draft.
They write a terrible terrible. Look.
And then they put it away and then they come back in six
months and they read it as if it's a brand new book that
they've never had before. And then they say, wow.
This is a shitty book and then they think about it now, like,
why is this shitty? What would I change if this
wasn't my book and I was just somebody who wanted to enjoy
this book. Oh, like there's a, There's No
Kata conflict isn't personal enough.
And the, the character needs to have a bigger conflict overcome
and their character Arc sucks. Then they rewrite the whole
thing. Thing.
And then they send it to an editor.
And the editor is like, know this book still sucks.
You need to fix it again and then they make all those notes
and it becomes this whole collaborative process.
And when you video at it, you do a whole scratch edit, you, you
record your own video, even though a professional will come
in and read it later and you do what's called an assembly edit
where you just take the cuts from b-roll that you think are
kind of cool. And some of the shots from the
commercial that seemed kind of nice and you put a few assembly
Cuts together. And then The creative director
and producers come in, they say these are terrible.
This is not at all. What I imagined like when I was
on set. I thought this was the best take
and you have to learn to not take that personally because You
are there to fail. So that you can iterate and
improve. Yeah, and if and if you just
stop at that first part you would be, you would be missing
out on what is an essential part of the creative process.
Like, and that's why I think, like, when people get too much
creative control, that's when a lot of the quality of their
creative work drops, because you definitely need a lot of people
to come in and be like, no, no. No, you've, you have failed.
And then you need to be able to Realize that and be like great.
So how do I you need to be able you need to be knowledgeable
enough to say, what is this feedback mean?
Because when people tell you that you failed, are that
something's wrong. They're not always right.
And sometimes they don't even know what is wrong.
They might try to be prescriptive and tell you like
what you should change and that might not be at your just.
You just know that you're not. If you're not have any impact
that you want to have with your art or your video, or your novel
or whatever. I think it's About sort of
collecting data and data points. Every experience in thing, that
happens is a data point, whether it was pleasant or unpleasant at
the time. So, like whatever, I make
something creative, whether it's a video, or a thing, I built or
anything and, you know, your to talker.
So, you know what? It's like to get a comment that
goes like this is done. Fuck you.
I hate you. Like, that's like my whole life
on Tick. Tock for me.
I always say that, like, all criticism.
Is useful, but not all criticism is valid.
It was that or was the other way around.
But like, so if somebody comes up to me and says, you know,
somebody who doesn't know anything about what I'm trying
to do and says that sucks for X y&z reason.
Yeah, I don't have to give a shit and I don't have to change
it. But I do.
Now have the data point that. Oh, this person doesn't like the
thing. So if I'm looking, if I'm trying
to make something that's going to please, this person or people
like this person, then that might be necessary for me to
know but it's all About trying to take it as data points and I
think yeah, artists times to do that, you know, get practicing
taking notes on stuff and and creative Pursuits and I consider
life a creative Pursuits. So let's go ahead and include
that taking other people's advice and or hearing other
people's advice in deciding whether to tell them to go fuck
themselves or not, or take the know because they know what
they're talking about. You know, that at least has this
hard line of X being external. Thing outside of me and my brain
has said this thing, or given me this feedback about this thing.
When it gets much fucking harder, I think, is when it's
you, when you were the one giving herself he back and
you're like, is this a moment when I need to tell myself to go
fuck myself, you know, am I being too hard on myself.
Am I being too nice? Like like a myself.
Am I being too forgiving of myself?
Did I really fucked that up or am I just socialized to believe
that I fucked up? Then it gets much fucking
blurrier and much fucking harder.
Well, I think when you can accept that failure and feedback
are part of the creative journey to a destination and you can
stop taking it personally, which and I'm saying those steps is if
they're like an easy one to thing, but it's taken me my
entire life to, you know, go to a meeting with other creatives
and have them tear my work apart and not leave feeling like I'm a
piece of dogshit. Like once you stop doing that,
then it just becomes about. Well, who is my audience?
Hmm, who am I actually trying to speak to?
Because if these people don't like it, who cares, and what am
I getting out of the creation of this intrinsically?
Because what, I had to discover with Tick-Tock was, What I did
discover through Tech because I never intended to be a tick tock
Creator. I actually went on Tick-Tock
initially to vent about my ADHD experiences because nobody
there, I didn't know anybody there.
I knew a lot of people on Facebook and Instagram and
Tick-Tock I had zero friends 0 followers, and everybody I ever
talked to you was like, it's just for people who are children
and they like to dance and I was like great.
So if I go on and Tick-Tock and talk about ADHD, like it's fine
and then and then things went viral.
And then my I texted me and he's like, wait, you have ADHD has a
crush it, like what I did what I learned through that was that
the more authentic and risky and vulnerable and, and batshit.
I was on Tick. Tock the more, I every time I
posted a video, or I would say, literally, nobody will relate to
this. And I'm the only person who
probably feels this way. Those are always the videos that
It up like blowing up or going off, and that kind of was the
first time I ever felt, like I had a tribe or an audience that
wasn't, it wasn't an audience that I was begging to be with
me. There's a come on, cool kids
like accept me in your popular club.
Like it was like, oh my God, like the more me that I that I
share the more acceptance I'm getting and and then I had to
carefully. Think about am I just falling
into the Again, of getting extrinsic value from
people-pleasing. Am I just performing like a
monkey and getting likes and meow?
Meow beans and feeling really good.
Because other people tell me I'm good.
Or am I expressing something authentic about myself and
feeling a sense of belonging for one?
I don't think those are mutually exclusive.
Sure, but you can definitely I think there's a trap that that
you can you can try too hard to be performative and fit what
other people want or try to predict what other people want
and give them what you think they want rather than risking.
Your own self expression. Like I think it they're not
mutually exclusive, but there is sort of It's important in the
Genesis of an idea. I think if you're starting off
trying to appeal to everyone, you will probably end up with
something that's a little bit mundane or muted.
But but like my favorite one of my go-to examples is like
ridiculous movies like The Room by Tommy Wiseau.
I will argue to the end of my days that that movie whether it
is critically acclaimed as a good film or not.
It has such a point of view. It is such a distilled version
of someone's perception of reality that I find it.
So, fascinating and can't look away.
The original Total Recall with our own Schwarzenegger.
That movie is batshit, be re watch that movie or like, this
doesn't make any sense and it's crazy and they shouldn't have
made this, but it's also really good.
And then they, then they remade it for the masses with the, the
intention of like, well, we're going to make this something
that everybody will enjoy a nobody like, Like that.
So like one guy made this crazy, insane thing.
And everybody was like, this is cool.
It became a cult classic. And then somebody said, let's
remake this, but for everyone and then when you make it for
everybody, it's for nobody at the same time.
And so I don't remember what my original plan was.
But oh, No, I don't remember when I.
Yeah, I think I think I think that what I was trying to say
was I had to be, I've learned that the more you can just the
moment when you find your audience.
Well, that was getting too. So, I've got this hat.
If you go on my Tick, Tock Channel, you'll actually see the
hat that I'm wearing, but it's a hat that I've basically, I
painted all my favorite things. Are you got it?
Mario star looks. Like yeah, it used to just be a
blank hat with a white star on. It looked almost like a Dallas
Cowboys, huh? And also it's just got is this
got all these things on it now from time going on up there?
Yeah. Pokemon like all sorts of stuff
and and and I was talking to my wife about this the other day.
I will go out in public wearing this crazy hat that I've drawn
all of my passions on and some people will give me kind of side
eye and be like, hey, this guy's a weirdo.
Wearing this crazy hat and then some people will come up to me
and be like, this is the coolest hat I've ever seen.
You are the coolest person I've ever met.
Did you draw this stuff? Tell me all about how you did
that? How did you get so good at dry?
And and then I get really socially awkward and and like,
I'm like, you know, I don't know, and then I leave and run
away. But what, what, what that tells
me, I could take that two ways. I could be like, the people
giving me side eye. Are telling me that I'm not
doing something socially acceptable, and I should change
myself to fit. It in better, but what I like to
think is it's a forcible way of finding my tribe really fat.
Yes, the people giving me side I are probably not people.
I'm going to get along with and they're telling me right away.
They're just telling me right away.
Like no, I don't like any of that stuff, and I think you're
weird, and it's good. Fine.
I don't want to people, please you.
I don't want to be part of your tribe.
We're good. I don't need to.
I don't need you to like, there's a lot of time.
Frankly. It seems so much time.
And and now when I meet people who like my hat on like can we
be friends? And give me your phone number?
Let's hang. Like let's do this.
Yeah. I mean, I think that's why, you
know, people can live their lives.
However, they want and so far. They're not hurting anybody
else. But I do think being as vividly
and unapologetically yourself as possible is just the way to do
it, you know, you might make less friends because a lot of
the people who, you know, like you a little bit until they
found out you're weird and then it up letting whatever, but the
friends you do make are going to be the fucking shit.
They're gonna like you for precisely who you are.
And I think, That's really valuable.
And yeah, I spent way too much of my life trying to do the
wrong thing and try and like we just wishing like, oh, I how
come these people don't like me. I should, I should do everything
I can to make them really like me.
I should I should start learning football and like, maybe I'll, I
remember like, I even was, I was a vegetarian, but I was still
like, Dad. Maybe I'll go hunting with you
and I think he was like, that's that's bullshit.
Like, no, don't go hunting with me like you I'm going to like it
and I was like, but but I want to have more in common with you
and like it just doesn't work. Like, you have to be yourself.
And ultimately like that leads you to the better relationship,
when people see you shine because you're genuinely
enjoying yourself in genuinely, you know, making the world
better because every I think everybody has that potential to
just give something awesome to the world.
I think be yourself be Sorry, what was the second one?
Be yourself. Be don't do drugs or drugs.
That's right. Be yourself.
Don't do drugs. Stop, drop and roll.
Um, I had a whole, I had a cool thing.
I was going to sound. So fucking smart.
God, damn it. Sorry.
No, no said it. This is me.
I interrupted myself. Something happened in my brain.
It was a, Oh, be persistent, be patient and be yourself.
I think he's persistent. Just keep going.
Keep going, keep rolling the dice every day.
I know you get a bunch of shitty roles in a row.
Sometimes you might get some good ones, be yourself and and
be patient. Sometimes it takes a while.
But yes, an answer your question.
That's how I got diagnosed with ADHD.
Oh, wow. Wow, that's so I'll start with
my dad's balls and it ended up with dark souls, I guess.
But we do have to go. We're profoundly over time, but
it has been lovely. But I did want, we I always ask
one. There's a question.
I always ask all of our guests that Katie thinks is dumb, but I
love it. So I'm going to keep doing it.
Okay, but I have one question for you, my friend.
If you could wave a magic wand and all of a sudden be able to
speak every language in the world fluent, or be able to play
every instrument in the world masterfully.
Which would you choose? Oh, I think music for sure.
I don't I don't like to talk to people that much.
I mean I like to talk to certain people when I when I find people
who are cool. Like you I obviously can talk
for hours non-stop, but most of the time I just want to be in my
basement fiddling with things. And if I could play guitar
masterfully or play instruments masterfully, you'd probably
never see me again. I probably just be in my Garage
forever, recording, cool stuff. It doesn't make you immortal,
you would still be there for the duration of a human life.
You don't know that learning how to play instruments masterfully
wouldn't eventually lead to some version of immortality.
Yeah, maybe it's like Infinity Stones or something like that.
You, if you play the fiddle long enough, the devil will challenge
you to a duel and then you can win a mortality and live
forever. And then, I mean, it's so
obvious to me what and then and then I can learn languages.
Every language and warming up for the rest.
Imagine Unity center in a in a universe where learning every
instrument masterfully leads to immortality.
I'm imagining like so, you know, some protagonist is out there
and they've collected every single one except for like the
tambourine and like all said, it's their final Tabor Ian
lesson and they go deleting and all of a sudden like the sky
opens up and like there's electricity in there.
Like I'm going to some tambourine instructor like what
the fuck just Tap and they had no idea what they just
witnessed. I'm pretty sure I just gave you
the best answer. You've ever got a question.
This is pretty good. One.
I learned all of the instruments and all the languages and I'm
Immortal now true. So I went to my favorite answers
was that's like name-dropper were but we had been Brainerd on
a year and a little bit ago and we asked them that question and
he said language and at some point I was being kind of snooty
and I was like, well, come on man, like music is the universal
language. He's like no Eric literal
Universal. Language is the universal.
Like let's like putting it up against literal universal
language. That was like, okay wait though.
Are you including programming languages?
And I suppose I do and like mathematical like math is sort
of the language like the actual fundamental language over the
universe because physics suppose that's true.
But I mean, then you could also say that leg is music theory
language. And if you're going to say that
math is language or programming, then I would also argue that
music theory is a language own which case you would have.
So if I'd chosen language, As I would have also had control of
physics and math. We're also sort of like face and
music, you know, identifying a line here between the ability to
think and understand in a language versus the ability to
speak it. Because if you you, if you spoke
fluent music theory, you would still have to have the physical
dexterity to realize that theory through the instruments.
So you could also losing ironically know all the
languages but not be able to pronounce shit.
You know, maybe that's the monkeys possible situation.
Okay. Yeah, this sounds like a curse
like I can, I know what I want to say, but I have like, like
what in syndrome or something like, I could talk to this
Turtle, but I can't miss the Saddles.
I could, I could communicate with whales, but I can't make
the frequencies necessary under water God.
We just got wild. Shout out to The Wild
Thornberrys. Well, I'm reading, I'm reading
the Animorphs real obsessive. And another ignoring this did
like the little cages where they turn into the guy.
What's up? Okay, I know that I'm a well,
it's my life. This is my last thing today.
You're good. I just want to take up your
time. I I just I anytime I can
evangelize the Animorphs. Anybody I have to because they
really freaked me out. When I was a kid.
Everybody thinks that they're these goofy books, but they
literally are the most intense action books that a ten-year-old
could read all the characters have PTSD by like book five.
Like they are having psychological.
Traumatic things occur. I was reading, I was reading the
third one to my daughter who's, like, seven and I had to start
editing what I was saying out loud because spoilers one of the
characters gets trapped as a hawk forever.
Whoa, and they start trigger warning, basically expressing
ideation. Wow, of ending things because
they Are trapped as a hawk for and they still thinking like a
human language, right? And, but, but when you transform
as an animal in these books, part of the animal brain, is
there. So, like when you transform as a
bird or something, there's there's an animal brain that you
can let take over to help you learn to fly and like heavily
instincts of animal which is like 20 a catch-22.
Because like if you become an ant, you could immediately get
Consolidated into the hierarchy of the social insight.
Um, world, or if you become a wolf, you might have like, some
hierarchical issues with a posing Wolfpack.
And, and so, he's like trying desperately to not eat mice.
Won't. And he's like, he's like, I'm a
hawk forever. I'm no longer technically a
human. So, should I be fighting aliens
to protect Humanity? Because I'm not human.
And I'm not an animorph, because I can't morph anymore.
I'm just a hawk. Talk and like should I eat nice
or will that turn the into a full Hawk?
Will I lose all of what's left of my humanity and then he has a
mental breakdown and tries to fly into a glass window and I'm
like, hey seven-year-old daughter is this okay, his book,
they get soaked right? That's book 3 and there's 50 of
that cheese and the affair. It's been, you know, however,
many years since I've written an entire book.
Well, so remember it has it also touches a lot on sort of other
innocent it. Like, I remember there would be
like aliens that would come down.
That were like vilified, but through like learning and they
like learn like, oh shit, like this guy's just trying to get
home or like this guy's, you know, something like that.
I think the coolest thing I learned from this books, reading
them as I grew up, was one that Adventures are not good.
Like, you know, you read all these Adventure fantasy books.
Me like I wish something cool would happen to me and then you
read the Animorphs and it's like, oh God, like they're
trying to hold their intestines into their Guerrilla bodies
while like running for their lives and And they've achieved
almost nothing. And like this is terrible.
And then, and then by, like the middle of the series, they blur
the lines very hard. Like, everything is kind of
black and white at the beginning, like the yeerks are
bad, and they're taking over Humanity in.
The Animorphs are good. They have to stop them but it
doesn't pull back from this idea of like most of their enemies
are slaves being mind-controlled by brain slugs.
And so every person that they Or hurt or injure is also a
non-consensual bystander of this war.
And so, if you are trying to escape with your life from this
alien base, and you have to make a choice between being captured
and infested and having all of your friends identities revealed
as the brain slug takes over your body, or you have to kill a
bunch of innocent bystanders that are being controlled by
these aliens. Like what is the morale?
It's basically the tram problem over and over and over again.
Every book until the characters are basically all completely
shattered as and their child soldiers, in an Intergalactic
War. But bike.
Everybody sees them in there. Like, oh cool.
They can transform into animals. The covers are weird and I'm
like, no, their school books ever, man.
You gotta read them. And that's my, that's my pitch.
They'll make you super depressed and you'll be like, why were
these are in for 10 year olds, but also, I'm so thirsty
incidental. Famous book series animal Spike
or a karmic Cormac McCarthy. Naturally, he wrote the road and
then really any ghosts with the animals this trouble for Ghost
Riders, just like, as I was wondering why they were no like
capital letters and population. It's just really weird choice
for a young adult novel. Tim.
Thank you so much for being here.
I do. Appreciate it.
Are you can you okay? Thank you for watching.
You want to do a plug? Where can people find you my
friend? I'm on Tick-Tock at Tim Ahern.
Art. Sometimes I'm an Instagram.
I was this was all supposed to be about my art.
I used to, I did, I do art sometimes now, I just like I
just ramble about a Animorphs and and so look for me there and
and yeah, I hope I hope Katie feels better, me too.
Sorry. Thanks.
Thanks for inviting me on but also double edged sword.
I hope Katie feels better soon. Well, yes, of course.
Thank you for being on cheese. And I don't mean to benefit from
her her Misfortune. But as soon as the zoom lens
like, you, like, screw a flask, like a poison or something like
that, put it on your ear. You're like shelf of the bunch
of poisons labeled, like, Katie. Asaurus.
Hey goo, everything has gone. As I have foreseen.
This was poison. Um, thank you so much for being
here and I'll talk to you by. Thanks again to Tim Ahern for
being here on such short notice and being such a lovely person.
If you enjoyed this episode, please, do go follow him on all
of his stuff. Again.
It's t IM underscore ahe. RN underscore art on Tick Tock.
You makes fantastic content. He's building robots.
He's building decks. It's a good time.
Anyways, thank you so much for being here.
I do appreciate it. Oh also, did you know that we
have a patreon patreon.com infinite Quest.
So if you'd like to help support the podcast, it would mean the
world to me. If you thought of going 200, we
got a ukulele coming on up all over by and the Patriot we're
going to the patron song. Okay, so we can Mark.
Yes. I'm so sick.
I'm going back. That was a mood.
That was a goddamn Anthem dating.
I almost, I almost burned our house down with with the lighter
that I was furiously, waving in the air.
I didn't. Please don't write a letter to,
to that song. Although you will likely feel
the urge. Anyways.
Thank you so much for being here, and we will see you next
week. Bye.