Hey everybody, it's me. Katie asaurus and welcome back
to infinite Quest this week on infinite.
Quest. Eric and I are tackling all
things ADHD, and video games. And by all things, I actually
mean a very small amount of things because we only had an
hour, but we talked about Minecraft.
So that's cool. Before we begin.
Eric, and I have a really special, and really cool
announcement and it feels so surreal to even be making This
announcement but we are officially announcing our first
ever live show. I know it's big.
It's kind of its kind of a big deal.
You guys. The live show recording is going
to be just part of our weekend apparent schedule at play on con
which is happening. July 8th to the 11th both online
and in person and Columbiana Alabama at the 4-H Center sort
of a crossover event between summer camp and a convention and
we're really really excited. We do.
Want to let you know that tickets and lodging are still
available. If you're interested, you can
visit play on con.com, but large caveat.
You do have to be vaccinated to attend in person.
So if you haven't gotten around to it yet and you want to come
hang out with us for a weekend, make sure that you do that in
enough time to come see us in July.
So, that's the big announcement. It's our first live show.
It's our first convention appearance.
We are so excited. That's play on con.com.
If you want to check it out. We've also got our appearance.
Dual listed on our website so you can sort of clicky through
the lengths and all of that good stuff.
And if you can't make it in person, no worries.
A lot of the events like I said before, are going to be online.
So make sure to check it out anyway and, you know, we'll just
zoom right into your living room.
So without further Ado, that's the announcement.
Here's the show about video games transition.
Oh well. Hello everybody.
Guess what? It's another episode of infinite
Quest. Welcome to the party.
Welcome to the quest. Hooray, what number episodes?
This, this is 42. Eric, we're gonna have to do
something big for our 50th. Oh, I hadn't thought of that.
We have to do something super cool.
I don't to do. Here's what we do.
We contact all the guests. We've ever had, and we put them
all in one big, Zoom room. No, no.
I'll talk to each other. Yeah, out there me out.
Robert. Downey jr.
Oh yeah, I guess. Oh my gosh.
Robert Downey jr. Stephen Colbert, and Jim Carrey,
three people. I really want to have an
apartment. I could not endure being
perceived by Stephen Colbert. It would be too much for me
because of scary. I would be like Stephen Colbert,
don't perceive me, just be honest.
Like such a, he's such a secret. Like Genius, Like secret
philosopher genius guy. He's so smart.
He's such a smart guy and also, like I kind of wanted to be my
dad but like not In a sex way like and just like a, will you
be my dad? Because you seem like you'd be
like a really good dad. Like, oh yeah, I feel like
similar would be like, the coolest dad.
Oh yeah, Tony all about Tolkien and stuff like that.
And I'm like, it's like, here's the thing.
I would introduce Stephen Colbert to the wood mother.
That would be what I would do. I'd be like, Stephen Colbert, my
friend, the wood mother knows more about tolki and thank you.
Let's go Toki, don't with Stephen Colbert, DD it be
fucking amazing. That's what I would do.
The beacons are lit. God calls for the That Talking
Tom taking the Hobbits to Isengard every kind of cool
Minecrafting to build like a big Beacon and we could like single
stuff to each other L Isengard and Minecraft perfect dude I'm
sure there are some killer eyes and guides in Minecraft.
I can't stop thinking about my crap.
I know me neither I mean I've been watching videos like a
people build and stuff and place to me, it's your fault.
I don't play no games and it's your fault.
Why is he here are your I mean, I don't want to say, like,
you've been doing well, because especially Would like Minecraft
there like you know, there is no like, well you just kind of like
do your thing, you know, I like the the server, the server that
we found is really is cool because you just push the button
and then you can just go on an adventure but it's safe.
I love that. Yeah.
Oh yeah, it's wonderful. Also.
I didn't know that when we first started playing, so the
authority. I felt about losing you was
like, perf Oz. Like, I was suicidal.
I was constantly afraid that I was going to get hopelessly lost
in Minecraft for forever and I didn't know how to do anything
in the game is so stressful. Often sand and single player
like regular mode. Oh it happens.
And it's never play Minecraft in sit, right.
Like, I can be unbearable stress of that.
Terrible stress of that. I just I couldn't.
I couldn't do it. Well, how do you, how do you
feel about Minecraft? You seem to be, you seem to be
enjoying, always be creative. How do you feel?
I have been swayed. Eric, I thought it was really
stupid. I thought that it was like a
blink until like, I don't know why I have like and this is
something that like I need to like, actually, like unpack a
little bit but like In my head, it like my curves like a boy
game which is like stupid. Like that's not a good opinion
to have because things like video games are not gendered.
But I think it's just because like we get a lot of
trick-or-treaters at my house and so all the Minecraft
costumes were like little boys. And so I was like, I was like a
thing that like little boys like, and I'm like, well, I'm
not a little boy, so I'm not going to fucking try it.
And then it turns out that I like, fucking love it.
I was wrong. I stand corrected.
I need to unpack some gender bias and stereotypes.
It's fine. We're out here doing the Work.
I think especially when it comes to well for one.
I'm so glad you've come over to the to the side of enjoy
Minecraft because it is a genuine pleasure playing with
you. I like to build stuff.
I like it because I was always my favorite part of Sims was
like building the stuff into it. Like I would I was I would
always like build really fancy houses and then I would just
immediately murder my people because I didn't care about
people. I just wanted to build like
extravagant house. Yeah, you got to put them in the
pool and then take out the ladder.
Yeah, that's it was just like whatever you guys but it's just
like I just really like designing, like Buildings and
stuff. But the thing that I like most
is, like, going on, like little like, you know, when you go to,
like the different areas, and then you just see like these
incred like that bird cage with the giant bird that was like,
one of the coolest things that I've ever like, I'm just
somebody just, like, got bored one afternoon and like built
that. But, like understanding like,
how much do you know? It's because you need like glass
and sand and shit. It's so it's like understanding
like how much shit he had to like mine to be able to like
make the thing. It's just like, I love, it's so
great. Makes me so happy.
Yeah. It's like, genuinely an example
of like how cool people are and like, I think something that's
super strange about Minecraft specifically when it comes to
ADHD is so many things, so. Alright.
First off, if you don't know what a Minecraft is Minecraft is
I forgot Blaine Minecraft. Pretty people who don't know
what Minecraft is. Was like ten years old now.
I think it's 11 years old now. It's a Minecraft is a game is
hot off the press. 10 year old game.
Minecraft is a game that you can roughly think Of as being like
Lego, if the whole world was Legos.
So you spawn in as like a little person and you have nothing on
you and you're like in the woods it's like many men afraid except
with computers. Exactly.
And your you have little adorable little pixel clothes on
you. But so you walk around and
there's, you're surrounded by blocks like.
So there are like, trees made out of blocks and the ground is
made out of dirt blocks, and then there's like water, that's
blocks and you can punch them and get the block.
So you punch the tree and you get wood and then If you get all
the wood from the tree, you can make little crafting bench and
then you can use the stones from the ground and the wood from the
trees to make like an axe to chop wood better and then you
can like a dig really deep and then find metal in the next up.
Out of that gets so complex. Like it gets monumentally
complex of that. The things that you can build
based on resource Gathering and like construction.
So, people build like massive farms, and people you can make
actual working computers. Like, you can make and Gates and
logic systems enough. Like if the thing flows into
this chest then it's an and or whatever.
I don't know how to computers work but like it gets insane.
How deep like Minecraft goes, what's really interesting about
it? To me is the process of
gathering materials like Gathering up the, you know,
10,000 sand blocks, that, that one person needed to melt to
make the giant Birdcage. Like it is hours and hours and
hours of tedious work just walking around smacking blocks
to break them to get the stones. Like, if you were to tell me to
do that, if you were just to say, Eric your, here's this
video game, I need you to break 10,000 blocks.
I'd be like, please. No.
Oh, God, no, please, no. Thank you know, that sounds
awful, but if you have like a thing in mind that you want to
build you just Flow State, you like, everything makes sense.
I need the thing to make the thing to get the things like
that, that the jungle wood, because I needed the special
wood to make sure I still have it done.
And that's all I want to do like all day.
Meaning to go make the loom but I've been doing like actual work
but like in the back of my ADHD troll brain, it's dead.
Like you still haven't made the loom and then you can make
Underpants with it to make Underpants.
I don't think you can actually make Underpants business.
The fruit. Little Fruit of the Loom is
Alberto. That's somebody maybe a dinosaur
outfit in Minecraft like on the distance but I don't know how to
put it on. My God I'm sorry we should
definitely Make little Minecraft characters that look like us.
That sounds really fun because we have the Katie ADHD Minecraft
server. I just don't know how to work
it. I don't sing a song, scary.
Understand how it works out too. Embarrassed to ask anybody?
Well, so on the idea of like, the weird tedious things that
Minecraft has you do? Like, for me and my ADHD.
It is a lot. It's a lady, has it.
So it has really good parts where it's like, oh, wow!
I've learned that. If I do this thing, I can be
more organized. Or I can, I've learned that if I
have a creative goal in mind that I feel is worth it, I can
do the same thing for long periods of times but I also run
into things where I'm terrible at them.
Yeah. Like because Minecraft Is all
about, I need to do this thing. But in order to do that thing, I
need to get this other thing and in order to get that thing, I
need to get this other thing and it gets so deep that I very
rarely end up actually making my way down that path of stuff to
do. The initial thing that I liked
wanted to complete but I still practice doing that.
So like would you say that the real Minecraft is the last two
learned along the way? Yes, Katie.
Yes, I would the real mine was the Crafts, remind along the
Minecraft. Hashed, that's mine.
That's a hashtag whatever. I just said, that's what's gonna
be our merger 20/20. Stephen Colbert on the show.
We just make hybrid. No, no, that's John Oliver
anyway, sorry either. I got a specific hashtags.
Yeah, you know, is the hybrid. Anyway, what I wanted, I wanted
to ask you like, says you're like, you know, you're not only
new to the Minecraft world, but you're new to the Video Game
World. Like how do you feel video games
have interacted with your ADHD so far?
Weird. Because I really like mixed
relationship to video games because, like, my parents had
Bafflingly a logical rules about video games, like it was really
funny because like I was not a lot like we did not have a
Nintendo, we were not allowed to have like a Nintendo or like a
video game console, but my parents were completely fucking
chill with computer games, which I still have so many goddamn
questions about. Like there is no difference but
we were not allowed to have a Nintendo.
We were not allowed to have like a Sega but like computer games
is fine and so, Like, but I grew up because I'm older than you.
I see I grew up firmly in the age of like video games are for
boys, not for girls. And the only video games the
girls can play are the girl video games.
So like I used to play a lot of like Barbie movie maker at like
Sim I play a lot of the Sims. I was obsessed with this one
game called Titanic Adventure out of time which I've tried.
Oh yeah he did lie and unsuccessfully to On Twitch, but
I can't get it to work on my computer in a fucking sad about
it. But really the only, I mean,
like I played Mario, like everybody plays Mario, like,
everybody has a friend who was an old Nintendo in their
basement, you would go over, you play my like Mario, so like I
was like aware of it. Terry like that for me.
Like, I re I was, I was hyper focused on the Titanic like,
like, just like the boat. And so, like the computer game
was less about like, oh, I'm excited to like, play the game
itself. The mystery, I just like walking
around the Titanic, like, it was more of like a research.
They, I don't want to say research, I could actually walk
around the Titanic in the game. The thing about Titanic
Adventure at a time, was they built a completely scale model
of the Titanic in the game and you could go and you could like,
and they use like reference photos and stuff.
The actual ship so like like you could just walk around the
Titanic like that was the whole, that was the selling point of
the game. That's so sweet.
But it was like puzzle game is like an escape room game.
Where like you go to like the Turkish bath and you had to like
turn the dials on the shower, a certain way and you get a piece
of the puzzle, but the idea of Titanic, in venture out of time,
not that you care at all. Was that you were time,
travelling, agent from like World War Two and you got sent
back to the Titanic during the London Blitz and like you had to
like Stop the Titanic from sinking to like stop Hitler from
taking over the way. It was really weird like the
conceit of the game was very weird but whoa its claim to fame
was that it was like a 3D model of the Titanic and he just like
walk around and I thought that was cool.
But anyway, so I what I found was like I I would get into
games like that where it was like puzzle games or or like
walking around games but like side-scrollers I'll get super
frustrated about because I wasn't immediately, I'd this guy
Shock, you, I wasn't immediately good at that.
So I didn't like them very much and so, so, yeah.
And then, there is another game. It was called black and white.
And it was this like weird game where, like you were a God, but
at some point, in the game, you would choose whether or not
you're going to be like a benevolent.
God or like a mean God and like, that was like I played the shit
out of that gate once ever like, I did nothing.
But sit in my basement and play black and white for like hours
and hours and hours, were you? Gaia I had to, I'd, I was
running two games at the same time, so hopefully the bad guy
and then I would be the good guy.
But the the thing is, is the only reason I played this game.
The only reason was because there is this part of the game
where there's this guy, it's just such a stupid story.
It is nothing new in this podcast.
There are these guys. There's these guys and they were
like, on this little, there was like a it was like a little, you
know, this is like a resource management gave basically, but
There was like a like a little island and there is these
Sailors who wanted wood for their ship.
So they can build a ship. And if you like did a certain
series of tasks, the guys would sing you a song like and it was
like this really fucking catchy song.
And so, I used to play the shit out of this game, so I can make
the guys sing the song. Can you, do you remember the
song? Can you sing the song?
It's like, oh, we got this notion that we might like to
sail the ocean. So, We're building a big shit to
leave here for good, but we've gotta stick it.
So there is something and then I would be like, but we need some
more one, but we're building a big ship and we need more wood
and then they were just like, I'm so their signal song, it's
AA, get really excited. I would give them like all the
wood so they could build their self because I was a kind and
benevolent. God said that's the whole story.
Really glad I didn't realize our podcast for 15 minutes to talk
about this. How did you get the wood?
You would you just pick up trees because you're only like, you
just like, I know. But like there's like a thing.
You like turn it into like plan. I don't remember.
But like you just hand him a tree, basically, but it was also
really funny because you could just like people.
You could just like pick up a guy and throw him and like it.
I would just do that all the time.
You have like this old, God hands that would come down and
pick up people, he would throw them and then there's like this
weird voice and it would just go.
Like in that looks like how you move it.
You would like kill the guy. So giving these people the wood
and hearing them sing the song was motivation enough for you to
gather all that, would it? Well, yeah, I was just like
handled by piles and piles. Piles.
It was thinking that I would delete the game and then I heard
that but like day and I would just go back and I replay it.
So they would sing me the song again, just over and over, and
over. I love that's all.
Get ready for a bunch of people sending you covers of them doing
that. So please do please, I'm sure
that has to exist. Like I haven't thought of Song
any cures but I guarantee like I'm gonna fuckin, I don't even
care. I know recording podcast, I'm
looking it up right now. I don't even care.
I'm okay. Shipbuilding sock.
Why should my gosh Oh man. The yeah, the bike ride Sailors
dark. There's least a couple of videos
of it, so but I don't know if anybody's covered it.
So let's find, I mean, you know, I wouldn't hate it if you played
it right now. Okay.
You want to hear it? Yeah, I wouldn't.
Yeah. Okay.
To baby and we've run out of way that's really impressive.
And then yeah, they're like little Pirates, they had like a
little accordion and shit. Oh sorry, that's delightful,
that's what I remember. I can't remember my banking
password that I set last week but I can remember the Sailing
Song from black and white from when I was 12 fucking years old,
because that's what I do with My time.
Cool. Cool.
Well, do you find nowadays when you're playing the Minecraft?
When we're doing the things, what, what do you find is
difficult because of your ADHD and or what do you find is, is
easier. Oh man.
Well, okay. First off, I want to know about
your relationship to video games.
That's a question that I have. But okay, don't answer your
question. First, I don't play video games,
really? Because of my ADHD.
Like that's, that's really it. Like Minecraft is one of the
first Games that like I've started playing.
Because what happens to me is that I like instantly.
I'm like, this game is going to consume me.
And even as we've been playing Minecraft, I've had to be like,
I mean you were there when Chris came home and I was like, yeah,
I'll be, I'll play for like 20 more minutes, and he came up
like, two hours later and he's like, where the fuck have you
been? And so, like, that's the thing.
It's like I really tend to lose track of time and I really tend
to get like really invested in like, you know, if there's like
a bunch of Different stars or prizes or whatever like I want
to get them all and so yeah. Like people always think it's
really weird but like I don't have names on my phone, I don't
have a single game on my phone. It's all like functional app
stuff that I use because of like if I put a game on my phone that
is all I am going to do for the next week or two weeks or
whatever until the dopamine wears off.
So yeah, I really don't play a lot of games because of that
Yeah, it's risky. I mean like because video games
especially when it comes to ADHD people with ADHD I have a much
higher likelihood of becoming addicted to stuff in general but
also video games and I think it's because video games, give
those little dopamine checkpoints, they give you
lights and colors and they reward you in stuff.
Which I think is incredibly useful, if you like, think about
it, if you break it down and think why, why am I able to do
this thing that in any other circumstance would be insanely
boring, you know, pressing the same button?
Button over and over, and over again for two hours.
Why am I now so motivated to do that?
And how did the video game get me to do that?
It's really interesting. Well, it's a number, it comes
down, it'll kind of to behavioral ISM, like a BF
Skinner, the father of Behavioral ISM inventor of this
Skinner boxes which is trigger warning, not very nice to
animals, but you would put like a rat in a box and you put a
button in the win, the bat box with the rat, and it would press
the button and get food it very quickly.
Learns to The button in order to get the reward of food.
However, you can also do interval-based rewards.
So like every three times it hits the button, it'll get food.
You can also do variable Rewards or just any random amount of
times that it hits the button. It will get food.
So maybe five times maybe 10, maybe, two, maybe three, so
Tick-Tock cool. Oh yeah, it's very Tick-Tock
very tick tockia. But the idea is that that first
one where it presses a button gets the food every time once it
Cops getting the food. It will immediately, stop well,
not immediate, but people very, very quickly.
Stop pressing the button and learn that like that stupid.
Now, I'm not doing that anymore. It'll not do the behavior.
The second one, where it's interval-based, it'll for a
little bit longer, it'll keep pressing the button but by far
the one that stuck the most was the random one where randomly
gets food every time. It's when it will keep doing
that behavior for a very long time, even after it hasn't
gotten food forever. Attacked I know, right?
As a rat's, we'll talk about Tick-Tock.
That's just literally describe Tick-Tock.
Cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool cool.
Yes I did, but video games work in Castle somewhat the same way
where we get rewarded variably for the things that we do.
You know you there's a big boss then you attack the boss.
Hopefully, it drops something good, sometimes it doesn't.
And I think the way that video games reward us can tell us and
how they motivate our Savior as people with ADHD can really
inform us about how we can help motivate our own behavior.
Like the idea that making this Birdcage in Minecraft, like
pressing the same button over and over and over again, for
hours and hours, and hours is on its face.
Very boring. Not to mention collecting all
this and that you have to use to make the glass to do the thing.
But because the goal in mind is like a internally set, go like
it's worth it to have this freakin bird cage thing
somewhere that player. Out there and we're just like
showering that Birdcage with compliments.
If you're, if you're listening to this Birdcage Builder is good
with your giant Spirit. We see you.
But I think it's really informative like how do and how
like it make it always makes me wonder, like, how can I get that
into my own life and I do in some ways?
Like with my coffee stirrer models, like sitting here,
cutting 100 equal, length, coffee.
Stirrers to make a thing. Like, if I was doing that for no
reason, I would it would be excruciating.
But because I have this goal in mind.
I'm willing to do it. And I think, Video games in some
ways taught me that that like wow, there's a pow.
There's like that. So insanely powerful that this
video game can get me to sit here and press the same couple
buttons over and over and over again and not only like act, it
can get me to do it but I'm Flo stated like I lose track of
time. I'm like, all engrossed in this
task. It's fascinating.
And I think trying to like hack that system is, I mean, just
that's so powerful. Like, imagine if Sonny was like,
hey, Eric, I'm going to get you to sit.
Chair and press the same button, thousands of times for two hours
and you're going to love it. I'd be like, okay yeah BS But
Here Comes Minecraft and just dunks on me like ah yeah.
That would you loved collecting? Yeah.
Well, I was like, I don't know. The other problem that I have is
like especially in stuff like Minecraft.
Like if I was going to build the birdcage, right?
Like I also know and this is something that we haven't
encountered yet but like I would have a very hard time walking
away and Being like it's done like even with our house like I
keep fucking adding like Windows and shit because I was like,
nah. I was like, I last like
literally last night at, like, 2:00 in the morning, I woke up
and I was like, I'm going to make an upstairs because I just
realized like I could make it upstairs because you could stay.
I didn't, I just did. I was like, fuck it.
I would make upstairs. So I was like, excited.
I was gonna build a little but I was like, that's that's the
problem for me is like, as like that was thinking like The Sims
2 is like, it's just like, there's never like a finality.
Do it, you know? Yeah, where is so it's like, I
think, like I spend a longer time like chasing the do paid
which, you know, it is what it is.
Yeah. I guess that makes sense.
Well, it's interesting that we're, you know, thinking about
like the variable reward where you're getting inconsistent
rewards for behaviors, like with Minecraft, which is largely a
creative game. I mean, there is like a story,
you could play it, but, you know, it's largely a creative
game, those rewards, the reward of seeing Seeing your finished
Bridge, get Birdcage or seeing like the beautiful second floor
to your little cottage. We're creating those for
ourselves. We're creating those goals and
those dopamine rewards from seeing the finished product.
We're creating those ourselves out of nothing.
We're just inventing a creative Endeavor and deciding that it's
worth working towards and then doing, yeah, and all the sudden
like it's just incredible and especially with Minecraft so
many times, you'll think I need to build this thing.
And in order to build this Aang, I need this other thing in order
to build that other thing I need this other thing in order to get
that thing, I need this other thing and so now you're getting
that fourth string thing. So that when you get it you can
do that third-string thing and finish up.
And you have to remember management this task management.
Exactly. And I am garbage at that in
Minecraft garbage at in Minecraft.
Let's good practice. Yeah, well it's funny that it's
worth doing all that stuff to get to that creative reward at
the end that I've set for myself which is something that's I try
to replicate in my own life but But not always successfully.
Congratulations. You did it.
You made it to the middle of the episode.
Well done. Well done.
You indeed, before we get to the part where I awkwardly shoehorn
in an ad for zillow.com that see ELO al.com and if you use code
kto, they'll give you 10% off your order.
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Back to the episode. Bye Can we do a science quarter
with Katie? Because you just talked about
something really interesting. Oh, most definitely cake.
I'm gonna do it. This is a thing that we do.
Well, if you're if you're new, if you're not new to implement
best practices thing that we do every single time and I'm not
just doing this on the spur of the moment, ready science
quarter with Katie. Okay, there you go.
That's a real thing that we've done recurring segment every
time. Yeah, we're Clockwork.
I didn't make that up on the play but okay, so We kind of
talked about like, maybe during a video game episode and I feel
like we're like Meandering and do.
It was things that I thought was really interesting is that for a
very long time, there has been debate about whether or not
video games, make your ADHD works like is screen time bad
for you and it is a very controversial.
Thing which I think is really interesting because pretty can
create Lee. They are now like they science
is able to say that like there's no evidence that video games
cause ADHD like if your kid plays a lot of video games early
on, they're not like more likely to have ADHD but then like the
conversation very quickly gets very nuanced and very
interesting because for ADHD kids there's a lot of benefits
to Playing video games and there's also a lot of like cons
to playing video games and so like it's really interesting
balancing those two conversations because kind of
like what you talked about earlier like kids with ADHD are
are like statistically more likely to struggle with like
video game addiction and that kind of thing.
But at the same time played in moderation video games like help
kids, build Skills. And one of them like you
specifically, talked about is task management.
Like video games can help with task management and a list that
I definitely prepared didn't prepare ahead of time.
This is all off the top of it and it's not I this is all
written out but it helps with like Visual and spatial skills
and hand-eye coordination strategy and problem-solving
like prioritization and like task management in general.
And a really interesting one collaboration and teamwork.
And I read a really interesting study about how a lot of kids
with ADHD struggle with social relationships because of like
just the challenges of navigating Life as a
neurodivergent kid and video games and especially like large
multiplayer games were like you can meet people and you're
sharing these common goals are actually really good for
socializing kids who might not, otherwise get that same type of
like support and community and friendship and I think that's
fucking interesting is shit. Shit like that is really, really
interesting to me, but I don't know, like it's one of those
things for like I grew up in the generation of like video games
will rot your brain and they're bad for you and you can't ever
let your kid look at a screen. Whatever.
And now we're starting to see like these places where like, no
video games are actually like pretty good for things like like
weirdly social skills and things like time management and that
thing where conversely like, also sometimes time management
out of game goes, Out the window because you're so hyper focused
on like getting your jungle wood for your loom and Minecraft, you
know. I just so it's super
interesting. Yeah I think what it seems to be
is a really powerful tool and like all really powerful tools,
it can hurt you like, it can do a lot of really good things, but
if not moderated and used in a deliberate way, it can do some
really bad things. Like for example, I'm I think
Minecraft is for me, one of my the best Examples because it's
the video games. I play the most, but also
because it really, really leans hard into that sort of task
management thing, like, where you have to, you have a larger
task that you then break down into smaller tasks.
And then such a specifically difficult thing for people with
ADHD, where one person sees like doing the dishes as being like a
singular task people with ADHD, that task is a series of a
hundreds and hundreds of smaller tasks.
I have to put on an apron, I have to reach to the left to
grab the thing and, you know, All that kind of stuff in
Minecraft is built on those types of things.
But so video game, like, that is really good practice for
practicing doing a multi-step tasks and stuff.
It's good for it's practicing organization, you know, having a
chest for your wood stuff, having a chest for your stuff
made out of stone and whatnot. It's really it's like a, you
know, it's like lifting weights or something for task
management. However, because of the nature
of video games, because Video games are not built to be
practice sessions for real life necessarily they're good on
their own. They're not satisfying only.
If you take the lessons that you learn from the video game and
apply them to your real life, that has to be done manually,
you have to decide to do that. You have to decide.
I'm going to think about what makes, you know, this game.
So, rewarding to me, and what makes it so that I'm willing to
do these complex, task management exercises.
Do you have to do that and extrapolate?
Annually. Because if you don't then well,
I mean have to might be a mystery, you might have some
thought but like, yeah, you know, I think because if you not
in honestly, because how I say this, because it is a contained
system, the video game, you can go into the video game.
Get a whole bunch of dopamine for a bunch of different reasons
for completing tasks. For working hard towards goals,
big rewards little rewards, lights colors music, the whole
Shebang and then you can just stop and be like that was great
and move on. You don't have to think.
Why did that do so well from you?
Why was I able to hyper focus on that for three hours four days,
six months? Why do I enter such a flow State
and how do I try to get to try to figure out how this game is,
motivating me such so that I can like Hack That and motivate
myself in the real world in that same way you can just have this
little other world that you go into and get all bunched ohmic
which is fine, there's nothing wrong.
That I'm not talking shit about that.
Yeah, but I think that's what causes it to be such a
dangerous, albeit powerful tool. See I just, I think that's
really interesting because I don't, I don't know if I
entirely agree. Like I definitely think that
like you can actively choose to like apply lessons but I also
think like as weird as a comparison.
Is this going to be? I think there's also like an
internalization of things you know because like like I didn't
play a lot of video games when I was a kid.
But I I sure as fuck did a lot of theater and like, I don't
know if I ever like actively woke up in the morning and went,
the lessons that I've learned in theater are applicable to the
lessons. I learned in life, you know.
But like I know that I learned how to solve problems on the Fly
more competently and I know that I am like, obviously much better
at talking in front of people. Like, I'm just throw me in front
of any size crowd and I'm fine, you know?
And so like for me I also wonder if The internalization of
success for people who naturally struggle with that kind of thing
could just sort of like bleed over into real life without
having to actively make the choice will like Endeavor.
Like I like I talked about Endeavor on Tik-Tok the other
day. I'm like that's the whole sort
of premise behind Endeavor for those of you who might not know
what Endeavor is. It's fucking fascinating but it
is the world's first scription video game that is designed for
kids ages 8-12 to help them with their ADHD symptoms.
And there's a lot of controversy and a lot of debate and a lot of
discussion about whether or not it works and Leslie Society
actually did a great follow-up video to my video talking about
like, wine. Maybe the research isn't exactly
there yet, but the premise behind it, is this idea that
like they built a game that is Typically designed to like light
up the problem solving and sort of like dopamine reward
receptors and a kids break. And so this idea is like you
play this game for like 25 minutes a day or whatever for
like four months or three months or whatever.
And at a certain point, the the doing of that the the using of
those neural Pathways strengthens them and makes you
more likely to be able to like apply those things in reality.
The problem as Leslie brought up in her video, is that it is
purely gauged based on like a computer ization, attention test
and so fundamentally, like one of the issues is like, you're
giving a kid a computer game and then testing them on a computer.
And so, like naturally, they're going to learn to be more
attentive to a computer. So like it's hard to say whether
or not those skills are being like applied, but the, but the
idea is really interesting. In combination with this idea of
like, do you or do you not choose to or like not choose but
like learn that you can take those like time management
skills and apply them elsewhere. It's super interesting and also
completely unrelated. But I forgot to tell you this.
I have ADHD somebody from the fucking company came to my
twitch stream today and they're like I saw your videos like
thanks. Like I said, it's like everybody
I could in the company and I was like I will give you $20 if you
give me a game code because I desperately want to try this
game and just see what it's like.
Like I just think it's so funny that they like they like know
who out there like aware of me. I'll stake heard you were
talking shit was like listen like I'm not gonna pretend to
like vouch for your thing if like the research isn't there
but it's certainly interesting you know.
Yeah most definitely I mean I think it the question is sort of
a how locally are specific school or skills useful.
Yeah, like how precise is Their usefulness.
Like there are people on Tick Tock, who I don't remember the
name of the Creator, but he calls he calls like his
followers like brain brain Builders or something like that.
I don't know. But he teaches a bunch of manual
exercises that usually have to do with your hands.
So like you make a, you make a pointy finger with one hand.
So you point with one hand, like such with your right hand, you
make a pointer finger and you point to the left.
So you're putting like in words are just Self.
All right and with your left hand, you do a thumbs up.
So you like pointing at your own thumbs up, okay?
And then the idea is you just switch.
So now you're going to do a thumbs up with your right hand
and point with your left hand and then switch back.
It's really hard, it's surprisingly difficult, right?
And that hard. But the idea is that and this is
a according to this person, I'm not saying this is all the way
through She's fact, as I can tell she's good.
Oh, there we go. All right, I got it.
I got a little bit here. Let.
Okay, it's perfect. I can move on V.
Whoever's the, the you dear listener are trying this
wherever you are. I hope you get a quickly.
The Restless podcast could be a wash for something, just gonna
be sitting there, doing that the whole, but if you're driving,
don't try it. I don't you guys like driving,
please, please don't do that but what the person who's teaching
these exercises, what he espouses, Is that your
strengthening neural Connections in your brain that are by
default weak? Like you will the part of your
brain? That does the pointy thing is
very different than the part of your brain that does the
thumbs-up thing. So it's hard to switch back and
forth between those things. And by practicing doing that,
you're strengthening the neural pathway between those danks know
again, this is what this person says.
I'm not standing fully by that because the the controversy that
always emerges in the comments is like you're not teaching
people's brains to just be better.
You're just teaching their brains to be better at that.
Specific thing at the pointy thumb e exercise like whether or
not that's better for your overall.
Brain is who the hell notes? Yeah.
But right now, you're just teaching people to do that thing
and I think that's roughly analogous to the video game
thing. Yeah.
Are you teaching you know, the skills that one learns in say
Minecraft or Endeavor of task management?
Do those skills by default, whether, you know, it or not,
bleed into your everyday life, perhaps to some extent, they do.
I I think for everybody, it's different like for me, you know,
whenever I'm at a boring job, my my impulse was always like how
do I make this useful elsewhere? Like it would make the job less
boring. So like I sort of by default do
that like without knowing it. So I think for everybody there's
like a some people might extrapolate the the lessons that
they learned in a video game to their everyday life
subconsciously where some people have to do it more manually.
But I think the question is is how much do the skills learned
in video games? Bleed into your everyday life.
By default and how much has to be done, I guess manual, because
certainly learning stuff in video games can be applied to
your everyday life. Because everything is that way,
every single thing that happens to us as like lessons to teach
us that if we think about, we can apply them to the rest of
our lives. Let's like a firm belief of
mine, and I think the idea that video games do it in a subtle
way that like slowly pushes our brain towards being better at
task management. I think that as the research
comes out Out that I'm really curious to watch it but I am
very skeptical that like if you get good at this game then
you'll be good at life. Like now getting good.
At that game means. You got good at that game.
Yeah, you know you had to develop skills in order to get
good at that game and that's cool as hell.
Perhaps you can figure out what those skills are analogously to
some other real-life thing can apply it there.
That's crazy. But I think the idea of a video
game where, like if you get good at the video game, then you're
good at life. I would love to see that video
game. I can't wait.
Maybe come out and get by Eric and I have I told you my second
life story. Isn't that the game that like
you can spend like real must spend and make real money in
something like it's you know, like the the like Ready Player,
One sort of like it's like basically that but like I played
second life for I was writing an article for it.
I used to write for Escapist magazine.
Not a lot of people know this about me but I used a magician
magazine. I used to write I used to write
for a Gaming magazine and you're telling me this 39 minutes into
the video game besides. Yeah, I wrote I used to refer
Escape as magazine. I would like, I wrote a lot
about like Star Trek and like Star Wars, like that kind of
thing. Like I didn't write about, like,
gaming per se, but there's like a nerd magazine.
But yeah, I wrote like several articles for Escapist, you can
look them up. I think there's still a website
or everybody's gonna think that I'm a liar, but I promise I did.
But I was they wanted me to do because I had to About Sims.
And so they like, they wanted me to write an article about second
life. And so I played second life for
precisely two hours, and what happened to me in that two
hours, I fucking dipped so hard on that game that I almost
didn't write the article because I rolled into second life.
This is such a dumb story, but I'm going to tell her anyway.
So I rolled into second life and I had no idea what I was doing.
There's like all these people walking around or whatever and I
happened to meet this couple and this couple was like just Decked
Out. In this like vampire e,
goth-like Kink fetish, where thing and I was like, okay,
these people can party and so I'm like talking to the one guy
and he's telling me I'm right. This is all in game.
This is all in game and like, you know, my guys like I'm like
the black T-shirt, like basic bitch.
She like new kid in the game, whatever.
And so they like showed me the ropes and I tell them like, very
honestly, like I'm I've just I'm just checking this out because
I'm writing this article and I want to kind of understand like
what's going on. And so this this the lady the
lady vampire starts telling me this.
Story about how like she's like met the like love of her life in
this game and it's just like so wonderful if she can't believe
and they like connected and it's just like the best thing ever
and hooray. Hooray, hooray.
And then the other person like pulled me aside was like oh I
want to show you something over here come in.
So then this person very like tearfully confesses to me that
like this person is madly in love with them and they think
that they're like a you know 25 year old guy from like New
Zealand or whatever but he's actually like 40 and he lives in
California. Born.
And he has no idea what to do. He's like this, like lie.
Go on, and on, and on, for like, way too long.
And like, this is how I don't remember the details, but like
it was like, one of them had like, just absolutely lied about
who they are like just like going into it and then they were
like in too deep and I was like, okay, that's enough.
Second life for me. Like, I'm out.
Like, no, absolutely not. Oh my gosh.
About those people like dislike. Was banana, like it was just
like I cannot imagine and so it's just like, I don't know.
So like I did that show story. That's just a story to tell.
No I you know, I something that I found really interesting is
you brought up earlier about how social skills are improved and
cooperation and empathy, and stuff like that are improved by
mediums certain studies set. I don't want to say that as
being like, completely all the way through but seriously
suggest that that's the case studies.
And I find that delightful, I was reading a study whose name
is very long. So it's the video games in ADHD
and non ADHD children: modalities of use in association
with ADHD symptoms of turning you to the academic side.
I love this for us. Oh, I've been on the academic
side, I just really write down the name.
They're always so long and I'm like awesome study.
That's name was like 14, daddy words long but basically
children with Lesser pro-social skills, pro-social skills, being
things like cooperation empathy. Like, you know, the stuff that
you would make you good in like a class project like that kind
of shit. Yeah.
Sharing some children who whose parents reported that they lack.
Those things were more likely to see increased video game use
Over time. However, not necessarily in the
category of excuse me. So Games, they didn't measure
that in the study and so I find that I am really curious about
how people whose pro-social skills are quote unquote, you
know? Like lacking.
Yeah. How social interaction in video
games changes because you're in a common world with these other
people with common goals. Like for example, my brother and
I, we were my brother. I have a brother.
That's two and a half years older than me.
Hi Cole. We we didn't really get along.
We were kids, we didn't. I hate each other but we were
very different. He was a sporty Sports person.
I was like a weird artsy kid. We gonna fight sweet brother
stuff but the first time that we ever like stayed up late by
talking to each other just as people as friends was about the
game, RuneScape RuneScape is an MMORPG.
It's a massive multiplayer online role-playing game when I
just messed that up basically he Nails it it's like it's sort of
like World of Warcraft you build your character, you specialize
you do go on a quest and stuff it's great and My brother was
big into RuneScape. I was kind of into RuneScape,
but one night we stayed up really late.
And we were sitting here talking about like, if I were to build a
new character, like what should I do?
And he was like, well, if you got really into archery you can
sell this and I can meet introduce you to this other guy
that can show you the stuff or whatever.
And like my might like my current relationship with my
brother now which is great. I love my brother like started
at that moment. I remember specifically I
remember the room we were sitting in.
I remember where he was sitting armored where I was sitting It
started with that moment because now we had a Common Language to
talk with to talk about common goals and understandings of
things and like in a lot of the people in my Discord in your
Discord who play like Minecraft and stuff like they, they now
have this reality that they can interact with other people and
where stuff makes sense, and they can talk using common terms
and stuff like that. All because of this video game
world that they exist in together, and I think that's
fucking beautiful. Like out of all the things that
video games could possibly do for no Divergence, like task
management and shit. I think that social aspect is by
far the most exciting by far the most exciting a while ago,
little. Here's all right, you got, you
told you to video game stories. Here's a video game.
Story of the loves a good for you.
Going to be sir. Can I just say for the record
that was goddamn, wholesome thing that I've ever heard in my
entire life. That was fucking, thank you for
sharing that story, because that was good.
Lovely, proceed. Thank you also got Guitar, Hero.
Was the first thing I was ever better at than my brother asked.
Why can't anybody out here with older siblings?
You know, when you're like growing up there like everything
you do, they like just get better at it and they're like,
oh, great. Now I have that guitar.
Here was the first time. The thing I was ever better at
than my brother was great healthy competition.
But for example, so so there's this game called Red Dead,
Redemption to you've probably heard of it.
It's one of the most successful video games of all time.
It's a beautiful game. It's a, we started walking
around the whole Western petting dogs.
So exactly, it's wonderful gate Beauty get on a horse and you
will find out and I know exactly how you make friends and that's
it and nothing bad ever happens. We got to start doing that kid
here you and me game where we just go around the entire map
and make friends with all the dogs people.
But there's also there's online plays while there's like a story
when there's online and you create your character, you make
like a like a person thing and you can interact with other real
people in this game world. So I started doing that.
That and it's a long story, don't worry about it.
I ended up being what was that device president or something of
this Guild? This Discord Guild of like
hundreds of people super cool. Super cool.
We were called, the Hanover Hanover hold over his.
I think they still around but they were organized like they
did this design game Vents and they would invent games in the
game as really, it was awesome. But anyways, that being said I
was playing video Consistently with a large group of people all
over the world for like a year and the friendships I made.
There were real, like I want to just say for the record real
quick, that sometimes somebody will say something like my
friend, who I play video games with, I've never met them in
real life, but I play video games with them online.
It's really easy to discredit that because it's kind of funny,
like, how they met on Xbox. But like, those are real serious
friendships, they talk to them. Like, imagine if they were some
of they talk to somebody on the phone for like, Like, you know,
six hours every day. How closely we go with that
person. Imagine I met people imagine
that I can't possibly imagine what kind of friendship would be
formed by somebody. Who you talked with five hours
every single day. Oh my gosh.
That's right. That's what we do.
Katie, I keep forgetting that you're not like in my house
because you're just always on a screen in my house.
So I'm like, that's right. My twin my phone dies, I'm just
alone. Now, it's terrible.
Anyways, in this game, like, dude, be with a you'd be like
doing Thing, you need spawn in and be like, hey, are you a hand
over? Hold over and you'd like and,
you know, like, holy shit. We're part of the same group and
then you would walk around and walk around in the woods and go
hunting or go sailing with this kid.
And there I remember I don't want to say his name out loud
because in case he's still around but there was this kid
who like you know when you're playing a video game you can
have a mic or not you know. So if you walk close to somebody
you can bake and talk to you but some people don't have Mike's.
So there they just communicate with body language.
So I walked up this kid and I was like, hey Hey, you know,
you're a holdover person whatever.
Let's go to a thing and he didn't say anything.
So I just assumed you didn't have a mic and we walked into
the woods and be sure to do on a bunch of stuff together or just
cooperatively hunting and stuff. And after like an hour, he said
something like nothing. He just said, like there's a
deer over there. Something this whole thing, I
was like, oh my gosh, you have a mic.
That's so cool. And he just said, yeah, we kept
playing and we kept doing it and ever.
He slowly started to say more nothing like crazy deep, but he
just slowly started saying, like I think if we go over here,
there's some turkey's. Like that and we played we
played we played we like added each other as friends and at the
end of it he was like hey yeah, I don't really see people.
Very often like in real life. He's like really socially
anxious. Like I don't really like talking
to people. I don't have very many friends
at school, you know, like, I don't have a lot of friends in
like, that was really nice, you know, just like, I know you like
saying, like it was a really big deal for him to be with another
person and like, talk to them. In this video game, gave us a
common goal and gave us like a Judge to talk with each other
and it was like one of the most beautiful things I've ever been
a part of and I think in the newer version communities stuff
like that is just, I mean, it's beautiful.
It's just fucking beautiful like, whatever it can do in
terms of like task organization skills, great.
But when you're playing multiplayer games in, you're
interacting with people. A lot of really lovely.
Lovely things can happen that can give you confidence in your
everyday life. You know, the idea of talking to
strangers or, or doing something nice for someone.
Else it's really delightful especially Minecraft servers
because you can like you can just walk up to somebody and be
like here's Four Diamonds, you know and then you make a friend
and then one day you come back to your base and they give you
some cold because they know you needed call and you make
friends. It's a wonderful way to getting
people all the stuff for House. Have You Been Just like, oh
really totally. Well, that's how I got, you
know, the Star Wars the Star Wars picture.
Yeah. I like I went into town and
like, asked like, does anybody know where I can get?
Denny, you know, wool in this one guy was like follow me and
he took me on this huge Adventure.
That's amazing. He was like a high level player.
You'd like diamond, everything didn't.
So he just gave me some stuff that's super nice.
Like you're a new player. So here's some stuff, five
people on that server. So I feel like probably everyone
has like their kids, the kids. Hello.
I mean, I think you're right. Like, I think what's really
interesting is like The the constant balance that like the
research like just purely from like making it boring again but
like one term that comes up like all the time is like problematic
usage, like it's not, they're not necessarily calling it like
an addiction, but they're calling it problematic usage.
But I think that like, it's it's it's something to be aware of,
but I also think that like, in some circumstances, like the one
that you talk about, like what even is problematic usage and
like, you know, I don't want to put it like that, but it's I
think that there's such a balance between like What
outside observers might consider you know problematic like
parents reporting kids, problematic usage.
But if your kid is having like a lot of problems at school and
doesn't have very many friends and you can go log on to Red
Dead Redemption and like have like a real you know
conversation with somebody like you might think it's problematic
because he's holed up in his room for five hours but like for
them like that might be really helpful but at the same time
like also How do you your kid outside and make sure that
they're like healthy? So, it's like, I don't, there's
no like perfect solution, but I think that it's really
interesting to think about the dichotomy there of like, what is
being helped? And what is being hindered?
And it's like, I think that it's, I think just like across
the board. Like, I think video games are so
much more of a help than a hindrance, you know, for like a
lot of people, But there's still such like a kind of like ADHD.
There's still such like a stereotype of like what it is
and what it looks like and how it works and everything that
it's just, I don't know, it's totally, I don't know where I
was going with that. I was trying to say something
deep and I just completely lost it.
Halfway through not. Well no I think he did.
I think from the outside perspective like it's easy to
look at somebody playing video games and assume they're doing
one thing. Yes.
Like, oh, you know, Eric sitting there and he's been playing
video games for five parts like, well, no, I I've been doing all
sorts of different stuff during this five hours, what it looks
like from the outside is that I've been doing the same thing
but that's not necessarily the case.
I could be you know making friends in friggin Spain or
something like that. And I mean I think ultimately
what it comes down to to repeat myself again, we see that comes
out of communication. Every time I say that I'm like,
am I really saying that again? But it's just absolutely so true
in every realm. I think if your Ed is playing
video games a lot. I think there are a lot of
different ways to play video games, I think, if you're
playing video games alone and you're, you know, just doing the
same repetitive, non, I don't know.
You can do anything to access in an unhealthy way.
Yeah. For sure, you can do anything.
You can exercise too much, you know, but understanding what
your kid is doing in this game, you know, to go up to him and
ask like what? So who's that guy?
Why do you have to go do that thing?
Like what what's you do? You have any friends?
Who's that? Oh cool.
Tell your friend. You know, skull boy is 72.
I said hello or something? Like, I don't know just but just
understand that what they're doing is actually very
complicated and can be very helpful.
It needs to be moderated, like everything does, but it can be
very helpful, that's fast. I'm sorry.
You can see the bagel and for like 30 seconds.
Well, obviously, you know, like people could do stuff to watch
and my first instinct was like, Oh, you mean like when somebody
place too many scratchy lotteries he eats cake too much
cake. Oh, when somebody smokes, too
many cigarettes when somebody yeah, that's all I could think
about and I'm sorry but then my bread like latched onto it
because I couldn't say because I didn't want to interrupt him
that I feel awkward but I just can't figure like about it
because it's like shout-out. John Mulaney new in town.
Go watch it, everybody. It's fantastic.
When somebody smokes, too many state.
When somebody play's do many. Yes, you got it, man.
I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to be real.
That I just got. So that was about.
That was a whole ass ADHD moment.
That's very funny. What's a closing?
Thoughts Katie. What do you what do you think?
What do you think? Closing thoughts, I think
eloquent on the spot. Oh fuck, I'm just being a jerk
you know, I think that having a cognizance of the problems that
video games can present when played to access is really
important. Because over and over and over.
The research shows us that people with ADHD are pre to
predisposition pre. Fuck me predisposed to
problematic video game usage, whether or not that spirals into
full-on like video game. Addiction is like a whole other
conversation, but the fact remains that like, consistently
across the board. We see that people with ADHD
tend to play too much too long, that kind of thing.
However, on the completely other and very much more wholesome
side, The coin is all of the, the things that video games can
help kids with, and adults even, you know?
And so I think that an awareness of issues that might arise going
in is really important, but they're also kind of, I don't
say simple to circumvent especially if you're sort of, in
the depths of like, oh shit. I'm playing way too much
Minecraft. But things like timers and
screen. Limitations and like that, kind
of thing can really go a long way in order to help you get the
benefits of it without completely burning yourself up
because you've done nothing but play Minecraft for 18 hours.
Yeah eloquent yeah so good. So goddamn eloquent Katie my
gosh pocket eloquent II completely agree.
I think it's worth monitoring making sure that you're you're
using this thing in a non-problematic way.
You're making sure that your shoes To do the thing.
You're not compulsively doing this.
A that's big in Addiction in general, like are you deciding
to do the thing, or do you have to do the thing?
So monitoring that and making sure that you're aware of time
in general, because video games tend to Flow State.
You and then all of a sudden that's been, like, 10 hours and
you forgot your, to pick your kid up at the baseball practice,
or whatever, something like that.
So paying attention to that is deeply important.
Whether that's the use Of an actual timer or just taking the
collected. I just set up to depressing of a
tableau. No, it's okay.
I was very specifically. Picture guy had one of those
like cinematic moments where I was picturing like little Jimmy
and he was in like his baseball uniform with the combat, and
it's like, raining. He's like sad.
And he's like, say he's like kick a rock and then like, yeah,
um, bad dad, like drives up. Like start Jimmy guys, and I run
a raid, it's cool dad. Is really important to you.
It's okay. And then and then and then
Charlie Brown Christmas Thursday is what color was the uniform by
the way I was like it was like white and blue is like those
excited. Let's picture yells at me.
Like come to you from like little whole picture and blue.
He's like, he's like a little, like his knees.
Like a little grass stains on it and like most boys, Dad.
Yeah. And then sue me grows up to be
like an adamant. An anti video game like, what -
kids like a schedule, like Dad, what happened, and he's
immediately pictures that rainy day in The Dugout, I don't want
to talk about it. No video games not in my house,
but also the other side of the coin.
I think they could be incredibly useful, they can.
When you're, when you're when you find yourself completing
multi-step tasks in a video game when in Retreat and in everyday
life that's actually very difficult.
Take a little peek at that. Put it aside for a second ago.
Hot. That's really interesting.
Just did a multi-step tasks to achieve a goal.
That why is that? Did I set that goal?
Myself? Did the video game?
Set it for me. What was the goal?
Was it a creative goal? Was it?
Who knows? And try to see and try to
recognize when that occurs in your everyday life, I think
that's big. And then the social aspect of
it, pay attention to how a video game is treating you socially.
Are you meeting people because of it or you like, not talking
to anybody for days and days, and days on end, which there's
not necessarily anything wrong with, but they can definitely
become Um, the problem very quickly.
So I think paying attention to those things are, you know, you
know, worth worth, checking out worth, checking out.
You know what I'm saying? They do now Katie, the real
question is, do you want to play some Minecraft real quick?
Or do you want to do that? A little bit of Minecraft?
Yeah. Ya wanna play a little bit of
Minecraft. All right.
All right, every we're gonna go play Minecraft.
Thanks everybody. Stay tuned for Katie's awesome
outro. Build the shit out of this Loom
so hard. You don't even know.
Ya can't get some fruits of those looms.
I'm really on the underwear joke.
I don't know why we are into it weird.
That that's where you go. Well, everybody that's it for
infinite Quest this week, but before we go, I'm sure, you
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