Oh hello and welcome to season 1 episode 22 of infinite Quest.
It's me Eric. Good before we begin this
episode requires a bit of explanation.
You're going to hear is talk a little bit at the beginning
about how this is episode 18. Well, that's because at the
beginning of episode 18, our Q&A episode, we got super off track
because we are pero ADHD years and ended up having a pretty
interesting conversation about systems and routines.
How they work and how they are sustainable, and how some of
them aren't sustainable. It's a good time.
Just a quick reminder. Before we begin, if you would
like to help support Katie and my's mission of the mental
health advocacy and education, you can become a member of our
patreon at patreon.com infinite Quest where you'll have access
to some exclusive content and overall, just our undying love
and affection. And please do consider sharing
the show if you like it. Without further Ado, here's
infinite Quest. Transition.
Hello and welcome to infinite Quest.
Episode 18, Katie. Our podcast is an adult now,
it's an adult person podcast. It is an assistant.
Don't person buy me a city polling.
Morphing into an adult person podcast, anyway, because we keep
being like, let's talk about sex baby.
It's the logic. There makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, it's an adult podcast starting on, but it's not though
it's not all ages podcast because if we, you know, I mean,
I don't know what what ages are pod.
Like, I don't want like seven-year-olds, Need to our
podcast. That be weird.
That would be kind of weird our key demographic that is
seven-year-old with the patience to listen to podcast though.
Narvik seven-year-olds. Listen up.
I don't know anything about children.
Children don't know. Do you think they're any babies
that listen to podcasts like in the womb and they come out
speaking like Terry Gross or something?
Probably, I mean, you know, you like like pregnant ladies, like
put like headphones on there on there.
Yeah. Let me see.
It wasn't like that. Like Bazar and shit.
Mozart. Mozart felt like it's exactly
like the Earth Oven and Debussy. See Claude Debussy really a big
fan of Wagner. So me too.
So this episode we got a really good response.
We're going to we got a classical composer names because
really like the chick chick, I can do, I can was going to turn
into a Tchaikovsky joke that I realized that I only know how to
pronounce it correctly and I didn't want to try and mess, I
don't know how to pronounce it mistaken correctly shot to
snatch caps that was awful. I'm sorry.
What are we doing? I want you to really talk about
what you just did. Katie.
I was I was bad. I'm thinking about it and I'm
just like I know that this is gonna go on the podcast because
so a couple weeks ago we did a Q&A that we got really good
responses about apparently you all really liked it, and that's
awesome. Thank you so much for all your,
your your nice words and what not?
Quite questions and stuff. Yeah, the people have demanded
more, Eric, the people the people have sent us their
questions. We Had so many good questions we
did and it feels bad. We have to mention, we have to
just pick a couple of them and do them, but he's so if you
don't hear your question on this episode Stick Around, we might
have it on the next Q&A because we can only do a couple because
we could hug because we spend 45 minutes of the episode riffing
about ripping at the beginning. Yeah.
Debussy debauchery Debussy. Gary Debussy.
I never thought of that. That's so funny.
So anyways. Katie, Katie, dial it in dial it
in. Come on, I'm sorry dilated.
I forgot to drink to take my meds today and might have it.
Oh, I just took mine recently. I probably even kicked in full
yet, I just like others. This is like the second podcast
in a row where I've like straight up just about like, no,
I'm good morning. And then I haven't taken my meds
and I'm feel like I need to be better about it.
You probably do Katie. Do you have a little pill
organizer? I do have a pill organizer and
actually, I have set myself a little pill organizer Katie.
I like, I want you. This is a real thing.
This is how this is, we can talk about this first.
This is interesting, I've set myself up for Success so hard
and yet it's it's still so hard, which is so annoying because
it's like, I've done everything right.
Like I've put the the little organizer and I keep it in the
spot and I put a little glass of water so I don't even have to
look for water. I can just like be like Gulp and
then I'm good. He's on plus every and then
every morning something stupid happens.
Like, that's like this morning, I My first alarm, I'm sorry,
woke up in a panic thinking that I was late to podcast recording.
I was in fact not but then I got new pans for the kitchen and
they showed up and then I was excited and distracted and so I
was unpacking pots and pans in the morning and then I realized
that in my excitement of unpacking pots and pans because
apparently I'm a very boring adult.
Now I just completely forgotten to do any part of my morning
routine. So actually I don't, I don't
think I've peed yet today. Hey, did you need to take a
second? Go to the bathroom.
Okay. Katie Katie.
Go to the bathroom. Okay, I'm okay.
Are you sure? I'm trusting you?
Yeah, I don't have to be right out.
I think this hand, I can't remember if I Peter Dot I really
don't remember it's fine. Anyway, if I have to pee, I'll
tell you, I trust you. Thanks.
It's well, I gosh that that wasn't one of our questions, but
now I'm I just, I was just thinking a big problem that I
have with routines and I think a lot of people with ADHD have the
problem that a lot of people with ADHD have about what their
routines is that they inevitably, they have to be
modular at some point because there is no like regular
morning. There's never like, just like a
default stock like standard-issue morning.
There's always Something, there's always something that is
a little different and that toe for me, that totally throws off
my routine. Like, if I wake up and I do have
my water and my pills laid out, but it's like, particularly cold
that day, you know, it's like a little thing.
And so when I roll over like my blanket reveals my shoulder and
I'm like oh gosh I couldn't possibly take my meds with a
cold shoulder, I think I'll give them the cold shoulder.
Ha ha ha, and it's like but sear likes that is that has actually
happened by the way trees. Story and so I'm like, you know,
like I guess I'll not reach the five feet away to get them
because it's cold this morning, and that'll throw me to all the
way off. I should wear pajamas, is this,
the, the obvious solution to that problem, but so many ways,
perhaps on a later Q&A. I think how, to how to make your
routines modular enough to like adapt to pull audibles to weird
situations. It's weird because like, like I
know this, I know we just said, this isn't a question but I'm
interested in. I want to talk about it, like my
Like before the pandemic like my job was so variable that like I
think I just got used to that modular structure because like
sometimes I was sitting in my office and I was negotiating
contracts. Sometimes I was, you know, like
literally traveling to different Renaissance festivals and like
recruiting sometimes I was like, directing the street, like,
there was like, my job was so different from hour to hour.
Dated, like, there was no structure to it.
It was just like, show up and like, whatever happens happens
and whatever you get down, you get done.
And so, like, I think, Yeah, I learned to navigate in that
structure and then during the pandemic, that struck, that
structure went away that like unpredictable structure went
away, but, but there's still a structure within it.
And now, like, my structure has completely changed to almost be
more the same because it's like, I wake up.
I make an educational Tick-Tock. I talk to you, we work on the
podcast. And so, I have more of like a
regular thing. So, now, smaller interruptions
feel like a bigger deal. Because I'm my brain is getting
used to that schedule. Huh?
Do you think does it make it harder or easier that there
isn't an external thing, causing you to maintain a structure
definitely harder because I just, I have to, I have to rely
on myself and like, I think that is, that's it started helping a
little bit but stuff like meds is harder stuff like remembering
to brush my teeth is now harder because before, like, I would
have liked I kept a toothbrush in my office and like right now,
if I forgot to brush my teeth in the morning or whatever, I might
like remember it like 3 p.m. but it's because I was in the middle
of sampling. Like literally this is a thing
that happened. We were like sampling Mead and
turkey legs in the office. Like that was just a thing that
we would do. How do you land that gig?
Listen, my first day of work at the Renaissance Festival.
My boss rolled into my office with a tray of five turkey legs,
and was like, try these and tell me which one we liked you like,
and it was like 9:30 on Me. And that was the first thing
that I did at my new job and I was like this the weirdest
fucking job I've ever had fucking miss that job so much.
But anyway, so yeah. So I mean, like so having now
this this structure that I've sort of fallen into completely
by accident, it's like make a tick.
Tock do a live call you? We work on the podcast.
I make another tip, you know. Now, since that structure
exists, it's it feels so different to have like a box of
pots and pans. Show up, because before it be
like, oh yeah, box probably go, okay, and be like, I'm gonna go
do this again. This thing and I've got 47
things on my to-do list, but now that becomes Earth-shattering,
whereas, before my brain just went, oh yeah, it's another
thing and it's weird. It's weird how that reversal has
like profoundly affected those like strategies and
methodologies that I had built pre-pandemic.
Yeah, I think for me and it seems like this might be
analogous to you to what you're describing.
If I have an external thing like a job where like I'm on the
payroll and I have to be somewhere to perform certain
stuff. My ADHD is like afraid of that
almost. Yeah.
And it's not like it goes away but if I let's say I wake up and
I have an hour before I have to leave for the bus to get to work
my ADHD. It still is there, it's still I
still feel the urge to go. Oh, but I got a package, I got
open that package. Oh, but I like always, I told my
room and I would do that, you know, the dishes.
I got to do that so it still is up there.
But for some reason, it's easier for me to because I have this
hard line to be like Eric No, you can open that package when
you get home, you need to do this.
There's like an adrenaline to it almost then I have to leave the
the house at a certain time it makes me think of like so
another hold on. Well so it makes me think about
that what naropa nephron does for Focus.
So like if dopamine is sort of a reward based Focus thing, where
if you have a low amount of dopamine your cravings,
Something to happen, you know, to raise it back to normal and
as you as you start the new thing, your brain goes.
Oh, you started to think cool. That's great.
And the sort of keeps you motivated in that way,
norepinephrine, very Loosely speaking naropa, nephron, does
different things. Depending on where your body
it's secreted, fascinating it operates as a neurotransmitter
and an endorphin, which is pretty cool or a hormone, excuse
me. But anyways, it acts in sort of
a fighter flight. This mode.
We're like if you're doing something and then suddenly
you're in danger, your brain goes, oh whatever I'm doing.
Don't care. I'm focusing on this new thing
and so this is I'm not saying that this is true but it makes
me think about the fact that the focus that I feel when there is
an absolute imperative. When I have to leave for work or
else I am in big trouble it's a fundamentally different kind of
focus that I feel like when I'm hyper focused on building a
model or something like that, it's not like a reward-based
focus. It's like an avoidance Of a
consequence almost and I feel like having an external
structure sort of stimulates me in that way.
And then when my structure is all on my own, it's like if I'm
not, nobody's going to punish me if I don't do the thing.
I'm just not like, I, it has to hopefully, be rewarding I
suppose. It's, yeah.
It's, I mean, it's, I feel like it's the, it's a question of
accountability. There's external accountability,
and internal accountability. Like if I don't get out of bed
and make a tick tock, I'm not getting fired.
I'm just like I just have Done my job, my job for the world,
but nobody on Tick, Tock knows except for me, whereas like, if
I don't show up to work until 11:30 because I was unboxing
pots and pans in my kitchen. Like, my boss is gonna know and
notice that and so that like yeah, I think I just said the
same exact thing as you. You're welcome.
Did you agree with me? Katie Mike?
Ah, she didn't, well, how this is it?
It's historic moment I've never ever agree.
Somebody write it down. Well, so this is me actually
asking you like, actually me Eric asking you Katie because I
want to know how would you have any stress, okay?
To you better be nervous. You're in the hot seat, you and
you, and baby Yoda there in the hot seat.
Hi, Welcome to our new segment called the hot seat with Katie
unary. What?
How like, how genuinely, how do you do it?
Like, do you have strategies in place?
Like, I know you have certain criteria that you meet like
posting three times a day. Making sure you do like an
educational one and like a, but How how do you what techniques
do you use to get yourself to follow your own structure as
much as you would follow a structure that has been
externally put on You by say a job?
Goddamn, that's a good question and I don't know if I have a
good answer and actually I do have a good answer but it's
going to require a lot of like Meandering.
So just know please School in baby.
I got nowhere to be, shut up Brian.
I refuse to move on to talk about.
This has Brian been vetoed. Things that we were supposed to
get to the Q&A like 10 minutes ago, but I've decided to to veto
Brian in this, I act your size my executive right to be, oh my
gosh. Wow.
Okay now we're going to we're destroying The hierarchy of this
show, that's dangerous. The slippery slope you.
I only do. I only get one of those a
season. So I just I just use my
executive veto. It's a 60-member majority in the
house to in the Senate and he said, yeah, it's people Jag.
What are you doing here? It's not a set of ever me and,
uh, us what Senator? I don't know why he was like the
first person that came to mind but I just thought it would be
funny. You got a son named my daughter
really plugged in. I got anyway.
So, what was the question? Again, question was, how do you
keep the question was Katie? How do you keep yourself?
How do you hold yourself to your own standards?
Basically, right? How do you keep yourself on a
schedule that you yourself have set.
I have an answer, but I don't know if it's going to be useful,
but my answer is that I wasn't diagnosed until I was 30.
And before that, in the Before Time, When I Didn't know what
was going on with my brain and I didn't have the terminology in
the understanding. What I did know, was that my
self-worth and my success and my failure was wrapped up on doing
the thing. Particularly, because my
background is in performance and my background is in Academia,
and the Sinister, and Insidious combination of performance
Academia is awful because you have to do the work.
Or the work doesn't happen. And so I think that a lot of my
strategies and a lot of the ways that I cope and a lot of the
ways that I deal with, how do you internally and externally
motivate yourself are very unhealthy and I know that like,
I know that about myself but because those are the strategies
that the systems that I built, Those are the systems that I
know how to navigate it and so that is why I like when I talk
about systems and and I educate about like building your own
systems. I always try really hard to to
educate from a place of like, but make sure that they're
healthy, make sure that there are system that works for you.
Because there's a difference between a system that works and
a success and a system that is successful.
Hmm. And a system that works can be
very psychologically damaging. Being a system that works can be
exhausting and, and awful and contribute negatively to your
mental health. Whereas a successful system is
one that solves the problem that you're having but also doesn't,
you know, tip the scale in the other direction and as I've been
sort of like working on on unpacking that and like working
through my own systems, I'm realizing how many of my systems
Are based on a system that works not a successful system and
that's not good. And so the answer to the
question is because I have placed much of my much of my
self-worth and my self-esteem in my success as a performer and an
educator and an Entertainer. Because that's something that I
care about deeply. And so, in the morning when I
wake up and I'm sad and I don't want to get out of bed, it's not
necessarily A system that is based on the internal motivation
of, but you're going to feel good about yourself if you post
a video because a lot of times I'll make a video and I'll go
it's garbage. That shit.
And I'm a terrible person and no one should ever look at my face
because I'm horrible. But then I check back, you know,
two hours later and 10,000 people have seen that video and
people have commented like, oh my gosh, I never thought about
this way or wow, like you really showed me something valuable and
you taught me something valuable about myself.
And so, I'm not necessarily getting out of bed for myself.
I'm getting out of bed for the people who need to hear about
the Action between ADHD and eating disorders or ADHD and
depression or whatever. I happen to be talking about.
And so the structures that I'm building our very tenuous and
I'm trying to be careful because their systems that are built
around communicating information to help other people and so I
know that that's not the best thing but it's like the thing
that I have right now and as infinite Quest has Come more
stable and more viable and as people are sort of like
supporting what we do and seeing what we do and saying, yes, I
see you, I see what you're trying to do.
We believe in you, we believe in the podcast like all of that
stuff. That is what is starting to turn
the tide for me. Like that is what is starting to
become the moment where I go? Oh I feel good about this
because like now, instead of like getting out of bed to make
a tick, tock I'm getting out of bed to do this.
This thing with you and I take pride in it because like, I'm
seeing the value in our work and I'm seeing the value in my
contribution to infinite quest in a way that I think.
Sometimes I can't see in other places that was a very
long-winded answer, and I'm very sorry.
Oh my gosh, Katie, it's a podcast.
Your, it's your job is to do, long-winded answers, and that
was wonderful, you know, but like sometimes I just, like, I
get like really wrapped up in an idea and then I just like go
off. Because I have ADHD and I just
start like ranting excitedly so I just I'm sorry that I talked
for so long. Also a quick side note, if
anybody has any suggestions for how to get Katie to stop
apologizing for existing, we are please email us at infinite
Quest podcast at gmail.com. We've tried a sorry jar, that
doesn't work. We just end up spending all of
our money in the sorry jar. Anyways, back to the topic, I
think act. Oh my God.
You remember like I feel like the Um with the sorry jar is
that like when you started going to the bank to withdraw money in
ones because you know that by the end of the week you're just
going to have to have like put your entire paycheck in a jar
for saying. Sorry that's when he realized
that it's more of a like a. It's not like a cute problem
anymore. It's like an actual problem, but
I don't know how to fix it. I've worked so hard on it and I
genuinely have no idea how to fix it.
Oh yeah. I mean, I'm serious.
We're taking suggestions, I really mean it.
We need help, but I think on terms of following systems,
Creating your own systems to follow them.
I think what you talked about like a what you called A system
that works very good versus a system that is successful.
I think the successful system inherently is sustainable.
I think there's an element of sustainability.
Yeah. For example.
For example, if I'm hungry and I order like, $70 worth of sushi,
which is a terrible thing that I do occasionally like that has
successfully solved my Hunger problem.
I'm not hungry anymore, but that is not a sustainable way.
I can't do that every time. I'm hungry.
It's not sustainable. And so a more sustainable would
be going to the grocery store and buying groceries, like a
regular person and all that, which is but still Fascinate.
I'm still wrapping my head around that concept, but so do
we just so I think there are ways to get yourself to do
something in a non-sustainable way.
And I think what sort of interesting about what we're,
what we specifically are doing, is that I find a lot.
I find it a lot easier to keep myself accountable because I
feel accountable to the people who consume the things that I'm
producing and so, rather than me just thinking, you know, I have
to do this for me. You know, I have to clean the my
kitchen for me, it's you know, whatever I'm thinking I'm doing
this for these people because they get something out of it.
They they've claimed to get something Of it and I believe
them. So I think it's sort of
interesting that at the end of the day it is still in I guess
for me it is still being accountable to other people but
it is. It is sustainable it is we've
built a community like that's what happened for me is like I
started tick-tocking for myself, I started like making technique,
you know, just like shitposting or whatever.
But like I really do feel like the infinite Quest family has
become a family and it's like and it's like like I wake up in
the morning and I'm excited to be like I learned this new thing
or like let's record a podcast with this cool person or
whatever because we are we're part of that community and and
like that it means something to me you know, Yeah, it's it's
it's just said it's like, five times.
That's okay. I find it really hard to do
things for myself. I think.
And so a lot of the times routines, such good friends.
I know, I never do anything for myself.
Unity to do anything for you yourself, but between the two
but I will do anything for you and I think you do quite a bit
for Maine's but we're obviously our powers combined kitty pop me
groceries this week. Yeah, because you fucking will
refuse to take care of Yourself. And if you're not going to take
care of yourself, I will take care of you for you.
So drink your Lacroix and shut up.
Oh, hello. You've made it to the middle of
the episode. Congratulations, I thought I'd
take this opportunity to announce a guest.
We're going to be having on that were super excited, about
co-host of the Paranormal and True Crime podcast.
And that's why we drink em. Shoals has recently been
diagnosed with ADHD and they're coming on to talk about their
diagnosis experience and what Else comes up.
Look out for that episode. Also for all you ADHD and D
lovers, we have new merch available at our red bubble
shop. You can find it at a red
bubble.com infinite Quest. We also have new Tony the
Unicorn merch sent in by Mike. Lee Productions.
Thanks Mike, just a warning, it is explicit.
Anyways, back to the show. Transfusion.
Hey everybody. It's me Katie asaurus and we
just wanted to let you know that this week's episode is brought
to you by our good friends over at honey.
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gonna give it to you straight, they sell sex toys but here's
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Play box was kind enough to send over just a ludicrous amount of
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So in the next couple of weeks, you're going to see some content
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And have have fun. Okay.
Bye. Our producer.
Brian is telling us that we have to move on to the Q&A.
So well, Kitty. I don't know if you've been
paying attention, but I believe I still have one veto.
Spent your veto. I have a veto.
I'm vetoing Brian. I'm vetoing.
Brian. I want to talk about the double
veto. Episode is a double veto.
I know. We're supposed to do.
A Q&A. Brian has never felt so
unapproved, like look at how droopy and said his tentacles
are right now. Brian.
Just like just like schlump the way he feels.
No, I'm sorry and I love you, I heard him.
Slither away all dejected. Sorry Brian.
It's nothing personal. Well like I genuinely one of the
great mysteries of my life is that under certain circumstances
like my ADHD still existed always exists but I can just
slam like a pro at at just doing the stuff like me being a
professional cook. Like when I walk into my kitchen
like you know you walk in through the back door, you walk
in everybody, like this is working and they look up and
they like not at you and you're like hey and you're like hey you
like hang up your coat and you hang up your knife Roll and you
wash your hands for like a half an hour.
And then, you know, now that you put you at, make sure your mask
is nice and tight and all that stuff.
You put on your apron and you go to your station and like, then
my whole brain, like I just become an avatar of process
where it's like I just suddenly become this like superhero where
I'm like okay what do I need to do today?
And I make one list and I dump everything that I have to do
that day. Like I have to blanch this, I
have to cut that. I have to mix.
Do I have to shape? Do I have to do all the stuff?
And then I'll make a second list.
That groups those tasks by location that way.
I'm not physically move because I have hyperactive fide ADHD.
And if I let myself, I will run around the kitchen all day.
And so I'll thank, oh, all of that can be done on this station
and so rather than same thing. Do you really I do?
We'll cuz like the Renaissance Festival was 35 Acres.
Yeah. And there's seven different
there. Seven different stages and like
for pubs or whatever, Plus like the office in the costume.
Like you know all the different like backstage stuff.
And so yeah. Like when I was making like, my
suit, my to-do list for like every single day was usually
like at least one piece of paper if not two but I would always
divide it by location. So I wasn't like running back
and forth and I had like I mapped out the most efficient
route to get around the festival because there's like you know
pass-throughs and there's like little paths and stuff that you
could get to. And so I figured out like if I
have to go to every single stage like what is them like that?
Was my mind that you did the same thing, but like in the kit
like that never like that. Never occurred to me to do just
in real life because like the festivals like the size of an
actual town. And so it made sense to me but
like, that makes so much goddamn sense.
Well, it came out of being or like, that's so like, how did I
never think about until right now?
Well, it came out of absolute necessity.
Because so when I was so quick story time we're still on the
topic of how do we keep ourselves to Iran?
The system's, when you know, just so that, but systems that
work versus successful system, would you like?
I need a better. We need a better, like
distinctive term. I think it's, I think it's
sustainable systems versus like, assist a system that is like a
sustainable system versus like a functional system.
But I honestly like, that's what I called it in The Tick-Tock
that I did about this. I feel like I said sustainable
system. So like that's I'm thinking of
like, I'm thinking of like sugar versus like, protein like Both
have a lot of calories in them. They will both cause your body
to put like to survive, but you can't just eat sugar every day.
Says, you challenge accepted Eric.
So when I was quick story time, so I used to work in the nicest
restaurant I've ever been inside, it was like like
Ratatouille level like insanely nice restaurant.
I was not qualified inch laundry.
What was in that it was like a couple week.
I shared a zip code with the French Laundry.
It was it was in Napa California.
Yeah, yeah. So this is like a fancy boy.
Oh yeah, I want you the name of the restaurant but we and I also
want to give too much because I want people to be able to
backtrack it but like we had our own farm.
So like, when we were chopping vegetables, it was vegetables
that we grew on our Farm, like, not me specifically, but it was,
it was incredible. I mean, looking back.
It was the nicest produce I've ever seen in my life.
It was insane. Like, every tomato was just like
the most perfect tomato nuts. Anyways, I was woefully
unqualified for this job. Just woefully unqualified.
No I got it. Through is like a mixture of
connections and white privilege like really like really looking
back, it's like holy shit. That was a huge example of male
white privilege that. I like could just walk in there
and be confident and they would hire me.
It's a whole thing. Anyways, so I have this job and
I am is so far out of my depths like so catastrophically far out
of my depth that the only way that I could make it through a
shift without getting screamed at by my chef.
Who was a screamer Was by organizing everything down to
like the 32nd time interval, like it obsessively.
And so, I would the day before I would write out the tasks for
the next next day. And when I was at home, I drew a
map of the kitchen and so, I would think, okay.
So I have to make, you know, Remillard, I have to make tartar
sauce, I have to make hollandaise, I have to make dice
this do that and I would draw a map of exactly the route that I
was going to take around. Kitchen looks like and what I
was going to grab at each location and so I had to develop
systems like that, just to not get screamed at at work
basically, which was not a sustainable system that was all
in. Pursuit of not getting yelled
at. So I had to like break my
fingers to try to get all that stuff done.
But anyway, feel like out of that says I sorry I didn't mean
to cut you off but now I'm curious.
I have a real question for you Eric.
Oh yeah. Okay, so please enjoy my ASMR
couch noises because yeah please, it hurts so bad and I
keep having to move around. Um do you think that out of that
unsustainable system came a functional system because you
taught Self that system out of necessity.
Yeah, I think it was sort of an extreme when when Patrick Lawler
was on. We talked about the concept of
bracketing, the target, which is kind of morbid.
But like, if you're shooting a mortar at a Target, you shoot a
little too far than a little not far enough and that a little
less too far. And then a little less not far
enough. So you're off shooting either
side of it until you eventually Hit the Target.
And so, that whole experience was an exercise in too far.
Like, What if I I have to organize every 30 second, time
interval. What if I have to, if I can't do
anything without meticulously planning it, and one I realized,
That my brain is built in a way that is not conducive to that.
It was useful to know just about myself, but it also taught me
just technically how to do that. I was aware of what that looked
like and that has helped me in every aspect of my life.
Like, for example, editing this podcast, the first time I did
it, it took me a certain amount of time and now that I'm doing
it, I have developed processes and specific techniques because
of my kitchen experience, that allow me to have my mise en.
Plus KT and do things that I just really, really interested
in how like 15 and a half hours. We're just casually calling a
certain amount of time. Well, I didn't want to drop
this. It was a long time.
Katie was a really think it's important that people hear that
though too, because it's like, like, kind of hate saying to
piggyback off of what you said, but like to piggyback off of
what you said, like I think one of the things about sustainable
systems is like, they become Sustainable over time and as you
streamline and strategize and re-evaluate the parts that
aren't working. Like some of the systems that I
have in my life are really, really sustainable systems but
they're ones that I've been like.
Well what if instead of putting my hair brush here I put it here
and I save a minute you know and then the next time I save you
know 20 seconds or whatever and so they become Far more
streamlined and far, more practical.
And and like a real world example, is editing the
podcasts. Like, we have gotten so much
faster and better at editing this because like we understand
what it, what we need to make this sustainable because like I
mean we we both know like we've stayed up until 3:00 4:00 in the
morning editing the podcast for the next day and that's not
sustainable, right? But that's like the system that
we have been working in. It's like, that's the system
that we built and so finding ways to make it more sustainable
and not taking 17 hours to edit is, I think it makes it so much
healthier. But you can apply that to any
system is, you can streamline it and you can and you can make it
more practical and more efficient.
It's you don't have to scrap the whole thing.
You just have to find those moments of improvement.
Yeah, I think we learn. I think we learn different
techniques in different. Use of our lives, like, all all
experience. Everywhere is applicable.
You can learn different things in systems from everywhere else,
and apply those to the systems you have.
And I think for a person with ADHD, who has a strange
relationship with time, I think the idea of sustainability is
intrinsically connected to the idea of time and duration to, in
order to figure out whether or not something is sustainable, it
has to persist for a certain amount of time.
And I know I in perhaps you Katie, I have a hankering that
you do. I always want to create the
Perfect system on the first try and I probably never have.
I just have to, to change it, you know, over time which is
frustrating. But I think it's important to
just start a process and just see what how it works and how it
doesn't work like you have to have somebody of data.
So I also want to talk about like what what is a system that
we're talking about? You're like what are we
referencing? I'll be referencing is going to
ask you that are weary Fencing. Like I've I keep thinking of
like your morning routine like my current system for my morning
routine was one not a morning routine.
I rarely get up in the actual morning.
I do. I do on podcast days but on
kitchen days. I generally don't, but I get up.
I know if I get up an hour before, I have to leave for the
bus, that gives me enough time to wake up to shower, to brush
my teeth in the shower, to get dressed to like, check my Tick.
Tock check my patreon and make sure all those things are like,
All right for the day and leave for the bus and it leaves me no
extra time. Like I have exactly enough time
to do that and it's not sustainable in that if something
happens then I'm a little screwed but I'm operating in an
ADHD body that won't do something unless it's urgent and
so I have to create that urgency for myself in order to get it
done. So I think that's like that's an
example of a system where I'm not sure if it's like the good
kind of system or the kind of system that works but is perhaps
unhealthy. Like I would love to be the kind
of person who wakes up five hours before I leave for work.
And I have all this time to like do a bunch of stuff and clean
and go shopping and and then go to work.
But as of now, I have to wake up with exactly as much time as I
need to leave like to do the stuff I need to do before I
leave for work or else, I'll dilly-dally and end up screwed.
Yeah. I mean I do the same thing like
a like it's like it's weird because like my morning routine
has changed so much because instead of having to like drive
to work I walk into my kitchen but like I thought like I mean
at the Renaissance Festival people used to give me shit all
the time because I live, right? Like we when we moved here, we
moved. / close to the festival because like, that was the sure
job that I had. And so like we moved here, like
so, we're so close. So it's less than a 10-minute
drive to the festival, which is great.
But that meant, Eric, what that meant was that if I had to be at
work at 9:00, I wouldn't get out of bed until 8:45, right?
I have my morning routine down to such a science that I can be.
Make dressed out of bed and out of the house, in less than seven
minutes in my car and at the festival by like 901 2903
depending on the traffic light, you know what I mean?
And it was so like I do the same thing.
But then like I would fuck myself if like, oh shit, I
forgot that I needed to run to the post office.
So like gasps, I forgot I like, I would constantly be late to
work because I forgot that I needed to get gas because it was
such a short commute that I wouldn't even like occur to me
that I needed to put gas. Gas in my car because I'm dumb.
And then, you know, and so then I'd be like, oh no, I'm out of
gas and I have to go to work and I'm going to be late.
And like thankfully, like it was a flexible enough job where like
nobody cared, you know, it was just like you just went in and
you did it work anyway because we were all staying until 8 p.m.
at night anyway but yeah. I mean like so like that is
always how I've approached things like morning systems.
Yes, the the peak maximum efficiency like I And I'm going
to say this and I truly mean this with no judgment or know
like pettiness, but but I have never understood people who take
two hours to get ready in the morning like that as a concept
fascinates me and baffles me. And I'm so interested in it
because because like because like you know, what's the
thinking? Like and like I like I love
watching makeup tutorials on YouTube because makeup is
something like I don't wear makeup.
Makeup like ever. And if I do, it's maybe lipstick
and like, I half have some eyeliner, like I don't do makeup
and so watching people spend two hours to put on makeup to go out
in the world. What it takes me quantifiably, I
have timed it on a stopwatch seven minutes.
Like there is such a disconnect there but like that's a system
that works for them. I like they feel good about
themselves and they're going out in the world like feeling their
best and looking their best and that's awesome.
And that makes me so happy. B.
But then also like I look at it and I'm like this like at a I do
not like I put on a shirt today, I win.
Yay. Well so for one, I want to amend
my system of getting ready for work real quick, the system that
I described of getting up showering, checking take talking
about it. That is the ideal version of the
system and I have I know in my head when I'm waking up that if
I wake up one hour before, I have to leave for the bus, I Can
do all those things. So that's the shower, the
patreon. The Tick-Tock, the brushing of
the teeth, all that. Then every morning I do this
thing. I bargain for time.
Katie, I bargained to stay in bed for a little longer.
So I think, uh, hmm. If I don't shower, I could sleep
for another 25 minutes. So then my 35-minute getting
ready for bed, plan is wake up quickly, check Tick Tock, like,
brush my teeth, maybe eat something real quick.
And then if Mike the one that happens most frequently is Like
to 7 to 10 minute one. We're like, I wake up, I have I
have what I call my oh shit alarm and that's the alarm that
goes off where it's like, okay, Eric, like you Absol, there is
no way or you absolutely need to get up right the fuck now.
So, I like multiple alarms, basically, like if you get up
now, you can do all the stuff and I go.
Nope, and then another alarm goes off and goes, if you got up
now, you can do some stuff. Nope.
And then the last one is like, Eric.
Please get out of bed and I think a lot of it but but the
thing is, as they all work and so far, they Have been
sustainable and so I think I would like to not be, so to not
be ashamed of that to just be like, hey, that's my system.
It works like I show up with I show up to work like, with cold,
in my eyes, and my eyes are all Brinkley still.
And I always feel like a shame but it's like, hey, you know
what? I showed up to work and I did I
the system works, I did it. Get at me dawg.
My bargaining Fort. I love that you say that because
it's still Martin's term, by the way.
That's not my term. I built my time bargaining into
my morning routine to the point where it very nearly ruined my
marriage. This is a true story my gosh
because I like for like first off like oh we need to do a
whole another episode on on sleep and ADHD because like oh
yeah. Sometimes my entire like, I'm In
one of those moments where, like, my entire body is filling
with rage about all the things that I didn't know about ADHD
growing up, like and I'm just angry about it.
But one of the big things is how hard restful sleep is for people
with ADHD and like, I cannot stress enough how I am always
tired, like there is never been a day in my life, where I wake
up and I'm like, good morning. Oh look.
A cartoon bird. I don't know what I'm like, when
on an awake fully rested, I have no idea.
I don't know, I've never had that.
Like, I've literally never had that experience and it
fascinates me. Like it's just fast anyway, but
so I like waking up is so hard for me.
Like it is, it is physically exhausting to wake up, which is
a very weird experience if you've not experienced it.
But so I know that. And so what I like, if I had to
be out of out of bed at 8:40 to get to work on time, I have an
alarm set for 7, 40, + 8, + 8 10, N and 8:15, and 820, and
8:30, and like 9 times out of 10, I would sleep through the
first three and finally, like, and we like finally, Chris had
to look at me and be like, I need you to get out of bed, when
your alarm goes off because your alarm, wakes me up, and I can't
deal with it anymore because like my alarm would be going off
and I would just be sleeping through it.
So he would be laying there, listening to fucking Tom Jones.
Singing fucking we can work it out because that's a great
fucking Banger to wake up to and and would just be like resentful
because Chris gets up like Chris.
Like he falls asleep, clock of midnight, The Stroke of
Midnight, crystals asleep and he like good morning a little
cartoon bird flies and fucking kisses him on the head at 7 a.m.
And that's how Chris gets me. Actually that's I'm the bird,
but I need at least five or six alarms to be cognizant enough to
realize that my alarm is going off.
And so that time bargaining became part of my routine of
like, I'm going to ignore bees nine.
Alarms, until the last three when my, oh, shit alarm goes
off. Which, by the way, is Jean-Luc
Picard saying Red Alert all hands to Battle Stations because
I'm cool. That's cool.
That's really cool place. So because of that, I had to
rebuild my system like after Chris came to me and what it is
a very valid request. Like hey, you're fucking alarms
are ruining my life. I had to restructure.
And so like, I have three alarms now, I've got, you know, like
I've got like the nine, the nine fifteen in the 9:30, but then I
like so then, but I had to retrain myself, like, you don't
get five alarms anymore. You don't get seven alarms
anymore. Now, you only have three, we got
three chances and like this morning, I slept through all
three dead ass, like I woke up in a panic because my alarm
didn't go off and I was like oh no my alarm didn't go off and I
checked the time and it was like fucking 10:45 and I was like
cool. Like yeah, so it's like I felt
so cool. You go, you go.
I felt, I felt so cool when you said that, you were going to
call me at 9:00 my time so that we could be ready to record.
And like, I got up and put, like, I woke up before my alarm
went off, which is a strange thing.
Because then it's like, oh, gosh, do I go back to sleep?
Or do I? Oh, I don't know.
And then I texted you and I was like, I'm getting in the shower,
I'll call you when I'm out. Like, I felt so cool.
Like, I beat you to the, to the deadline, like, oh, I know you
thought you were going to like wake me up when you called me,
but like I was timezone. Time zones.
Genuinely really proud of you. Like I was thinking, so I was
too. That's really awesome.
Very like, good job. Like I've like, I was proud of
your accomplishment and I feel like that's why we're friends.
Yeah, I showered brush my teeth and ate breakfast today.
It was a late breakfast. I definitely pushed it pretty
far. I was like starving by the time
I ate but I made eggs and eggs and sausage that you bought me
on insta cart. Avocado was a good as an avocado
with some smoked paprika on top. By the way, if you're not, if
you're not salting your Your avocado and perhaps seasoning it
you're missing out tomatoes to it's the same up a nice piece.
Yeah. But I mean so but the thing
about sex with the circling all the way back to what the fuck
were actually talking about, one of the things that I think
People tend to overlook like I'm always very cognizant of
speaking for the group, but like one of the things that I think
people don't realize is that so much of what we do as a system
like systems, don't have to be these like heavily constructed
like well-thought-out things. It's as simple as like, do you
keep a pen next to your phone, you know, or do you keep a piece
of paper next to your nightstand?
Like, that's a system that's a system for helping you remember,
you know, when you come in the house, do you put your keys
someplace specific? If o'clock that's a system, do
you put your mail someplace specific like all of those
things like our small little tiny systems.
They don't have to be fancy. They don't have, you don't have
to, like, sit down and say, you know, like what, what, I'm going
to walk myself through the process of getting my mail, but
on the other hand, if you need to do that, that is totally
okay. You know, yeah, and I think it's
worth pointing out that Everything is a system,
everything is a system, it's all art know, it's all just
entering, and it's all energy. But like, so, for example, if
getting out of bed at the very last second, such that you can
still get to work, but you get to work.
That's a system that is a system, like it is.
It's a thing that causes it to happen.
Or like, you know, when I was a student, I would start essays
like the day before they were due and it was miserable.
I'd stay up all night writing essays.
It was terrible, but it was a system awesome.
And so I not a sustainable system but it was it was not a
sustainable system. And so I think it's worth
thinking. Not in terms of, do I have a
system or do I not have a system?
You do. If you're a person who is alive,
you have some system for like eating and drinking and drinking
water and not dying. Like there you have system by
nature of being alive. So, rather than thinking of it
as like, I don't have a system for that.
I have to make one Try to figure out what your system already is,
and we're go from there. So rather than creating one from
scratch, you're just tweaking the ones that you already have.
So for example, making breakfast, I usually don't eat
breakfast until I'm so hungry that I'm like oh my gosh, I need
to eat before I do anything else today or else I'm going to like
pass out which is not ideal but then I can think.
Okay? That usually ends up being
around, say 11:00. And so rather than pushing it so
far. What if I just make it a little
bit before that before? Like the absolute last seconds,
that's way easier to me than thinking, I'll build a system
from scratch, which involves me waking up at 8:30.
And then like drinking coffee and doing 10 push-ups.
Because I tend to try to make like this perfect Immaculate
system when I start from scratch, and it's sort of
intimidating. And then I have to get mad at
myself when I don't do that. And so I think, recognizing what
your system actually is whether It's a sustainable one or not,
just recognizing what that is and, and sort of trying to
sculpt that into something that works rather than like thinking,
you know, building some Castle in the Sky of what your ideal
system would make. I put my hairbrush in the
shower. That was, that was like, like
that changed my life because like, you know, I started doing
like, Curly girl method and they're always like, don't brush
her hair and less it's wet. And so that I would always
forget to brush Here. Anyway, and then I was like, oh,
but if I put my brush in the shower, then I'll be thinking
about it, and then I'll do it. And like, that's that wasn't
like a castle in the sky. That was just a.
What if I moved it? A foot and a half over from
where I had been keeping it, but it dramatically improved, my
quality of life, like it dramatically improves like my
ability to care for myself and stuff like that small or like I
used to keep my toothpaste in the drawer but now I don't
anymore. I keep it next to the cup where
I keep my toothbrush. No, because I would like, always
be like, oh no, I can't find my toothpaste.
And then I wouldn't brush my teeth.
But now I'm like, I'm just looking at it.
Like it's that it can be that simple, you know.
Oh yeah. I mean I keep my toothbrush and
toothpaste in the shower. Which, which, by the way, a lot
of people think it's, like, more efficient, because you're doing
two things at once. But you're really not, you're
just brushing your teeth in the shower, like I guess if you had
to like, let your conditioner sit for a little while and you
did it while that was happening, I guess that would be more
Vision. But the reason I do it is just
to just Task. So, I don't forget, so it's
like, I just get in the shower and then run sequence, and then
get out of the shower and that now includes brushing my teeth.
So, it's little things, it's little tweaks to the things that
you already do. And I think forgiving yourself
for not being whatever you think perfect is.
I think is essential towards becoming or developing healthier
systems in more sustainable systems.
I think you're right. And I think the most important
thing is that like I get questions all the time, and I'm
sure you do too, but, like one of the questions I get, Asked
all the time is. I keep my ex my ex my blank by
whatever I keep that here and then it's always followed up by
is that weird or like I do this thing?
Oh yeah, that weird. I like my answer is always the
same and I'm like, if it works for you that it's not weird.
I'm like maybe it's weird but like I'm not like that's the
thing. It's like and I feel like
there's such like this, this perception that our systems have
to be perfect for everybody else.
And We have to get ourselves into these systems where it's
completely the opposite. It's like nobody gives a shit
where you keep your toothbrush. Nobody gives a shit where you
keep your hair brushed but if it works for you, maybe it is
weird. Maybe it's super weird that I
keep my hair brush in the shower, but I don't care because
it's a system that works for me and like, having the patience to
like forgive myself. When I forget to brush my hair,
having the patience to forgive myself for the years of like,
neglecting self-care because I didn't have those.
Seems like, I really think that is the first step in creating
the sustainable systems, is letting go of all of the rest of
it, letting go of the, is it weird?
Letting go of the water people. Going to think letting go of the
shame and whatever. And just saying this works for
me, and that's okay. Here here here.
Here I'm picturing. My mom would always exercise
while the microwave. And that's it.
Thanks so much for listening. Stay tuned next week for our
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