Everybody it's me Kate azureus and welcome back to infinite
quest in this week's episode Eric and I take more questions
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Sit back. Relax and enjoy episode 19 of
infinite Quest. Transition the preacher wore
buttless chaps. Hi everybody.
Welcome to infinite Quest. Today we're only making bird
noises cacao. I can't roll my RS.
Good bird sound. Okay, so just hello and welcome
to episode 18, Katie Katie, hello and welcome to episode 18
of infinite Quest. Welcome back to the show.
How are you doing? Katie who's really?
I was like, we've really come into the bird noises better like
that was a that was not a big cave that's a way of life Rising
along bird noise sex. One of the other question I
guess we're sponsored by wild feed and then I don't respond
sir by birds birds and general sponsor.
Reminder that birds aren't real or not real but that real birds.
That's right. So Katie we get this question a
lot. So it's not attributed to any
one person because I thought I was supposed to ask the first
question. I feel left out.
No, I'm asking the first question, Katie.
Okay. Do you take the first question?
Thanks, I decided it when, when you were scrolling through Those
things like, okay, I definitely got to take the reins on this
one. Okay.
Okay I appreciate you. Taking the reins.
The question is, how do you explain ADHD to people who don't
have it? Which is I think like a question
that I spend a lot of time thinking about and I've arrived
it like a million different answers and I don't know.
What do you think Katie I'm setting the timer.
Okay I think that it has a couple of different answers
because it depends on your goal right?
Because I am in a unique position of like I am Now now
like a mental health, Advocate and educator.
And so my goal is not necessarily to like explain ADHD
to my friends and family but explain ADHD on a level to
where, like, we're starting like a whole conversation about it
just like in the general General, right?
So I have a couple of different answers because when I'm
explaining like what it's like to have ADHD, I can only also,
From my own experience. Now, I can talk about the
symptoms of ADHD. I can talk about, you know, like
the DSM, what the DSM says about ADHD.
But the, but the example that I always use is that, you know,
how you have that, like, crappy old laptop, and you've had it in
your closet for years, and it's still boots up, but like it's so
slow and it's so slow. Because like every process takes
a ton of memory and every process takes a ton of ram.
That is what? Having ADHD?
He's like your your brain computer is constantly trying to
process everything that is going on.
All at the same time. It's like you've opened 500
different tabs and you're running Photoshop and Lightroom
and all of those like, really, like memory have heavy tasks all
at the same time. And so it can be really, really
hard to focus. It can be really, really hard to
remember stuff. But it's not because I'm not
trying, it's not because I don't want to.
It's not because I'm not Stood in what you're saying or, you
know, being a good friend. It's because my computer
processor, literally does not have the memory space to
efficiently, run those programs. That's kind of the analogy that
I use. Most, most of the time.
Yeah, I think of it, very similarly, yeah, like an ADHD
person's brain is like a computer, but random files are
just popping up opening at a given time and And new tabs are
opening and other tabs are closing.
And somewhere in there is what I'm actually trying to work on
which is, you know, listening to the person who's talking to me
or trying to fill out the paperwork that's in front of me.
And so it has nothing to do with how important or how much we
care about the thing. It's just everything is existing
in this chaos of the fact that we have very little control over
what's going on in our working memory at any given time.
And I think the idea of what is your goal is really important
because if I'm to going to explain it in like a general
way, just Is ADHD actually, then you can talk about dopamine and
all these symptoms in the DSM. But ultimately I think if you're
trying to explain to somebody what ADHD is, then you're trying
to sort of explain functionally to them what it means.
And I think that's a wonderful analogy.
I also thank you. I very simply say like imagine
having a rambunctious toddler in the backseat of your car and
you're trying to drive but in the backseat of your car,
there's like a kid. Who's yeah.
What about stuff and saying? Hey look at that and look at
this. Hey can we go get ice?
Cream and you have to occupy that kid so that you can focus
on the road and not crash. And so, you'll say here, here's
an iPad or here's a to your some keys jingle those around, or
something like that. And that keeps the kid occupied
so that you can focus on the road.
And so that's why an 82 % D, person might fidget, or have to
Doodle, or like a big one for me, is, you know, if somebody's
just looking at me and I'm just listening to making eye contact
that rambunctious toddler starts getting bored.
And it's like, so I have to be Going elsewhere in order to
listen to somebody because I need to be able to occupy that
rambunctious toddler in the back of my head.
So yeah, I think the idea of scope is are you are they asking
what ADHD is in a diagnostic sense?
Like a neurological sense or are you just do?
They just want to know what's going on up in that Cabeza of
yours? Such that they can deal with
you, you know, or hang out with you or work with you, okay?
So then secondary question because we have time.
So then how do you approach like So if you're just having the
conversation like just you know with somebody that you know who
doesn't understand ADHD how then and that because this is a
secondary question that we get all the time which is how do you
combat this idea that like ADHD is just an excuse or you're just
being a shitty friend or you're just being lazy.
You know how do you approach that mindset?
Because like that's a thing that like I have to deal with with my
own mother. Like my mom doesn't really
believe that like Eh d has any bearing on like, you know, sleep
or disorganization or that kind of thing.
And so, you know, it's just well you just never want to get up
like, you know, like that kind of thing.
How do you, how do you, how do you combat that?
I will generally say that. Well, one that's a very angering
question and so the first step is to like, breathe and be like,
okay, you know, I have this very like this mental illness that
makes every moment of my life harder.
This person saying That's just an excuse.
So you don't have to fold your laundry like and so what I try
to say to them as like, Hey, listen, like ADHD doesn't just
make it harder to do things that I don't want to do.
It doesn't just make it harder to do, chores and do taxes and
fill out paperwork. It also makes it much much
harder to do things that I do want to do.
So watch, you know, I would say to that person the next time you
see me, you know, starting to do something that, you know, that I
like to do painting drawing playing.
Playing video games. Anything notice that.
It's also really hard for me to focus on that.
Like that, it's really hard for me to do things that I want to
do as well. Now, there are in most cases of
ADHD, according to Thomas E Brown, there is there's usually
something that an ADHD person can focus on like their brain
just fits with it. But with all the things like for
me specifically playing music like I love playing music is a
huge part of my life and my identity but my ADHD makes it
extremely difficult and for Is never very tenuous relationship
with music. So I would try to communicate to
that person that my ADHD doesn't just make it harder to do things
that I don't want to do it. Also makes it harder to do
things that I really do want to do so that and then also just
this the quick like card that you can just pull out.
Is there's a, What's called the international consensus
statement on ADHD which was signed by hundreds over it's
over 100, I don't know. Say 100's, but it's over 100
psychologists psychiatrists from around And the world who all
signed this like document just saying, ADHD is real.
If anybody tells you that it's not real, they're fucking wrong.
Like we're scientists, we have no, we're like, we're just
saying, yes, it is absolutely real.
So you can keep that in your back pocket, just be like boom,
talk to these. Scientists not me.
Take that early just like that. In my Tick, Tock bio the other
day. Like I don't like all I need to
put that in there. But then after I got attacked by
that like super shitty troll, like, I best like the first link
now. And might because I was just And
I'm done. Like I was like, no, no, no.
We are not just lazy like no. Yeah.
What do you what do you say? Because I know most of the
people in my life are genuinely pretty generally pretty
accommodating. What do you say?
I mean, I think for me like I always try because like my like
I always find a way to shoehorn this in but like, my background
is in Academia and so I get really excited about like
research and that kind of thing. And so for me, like I always
kind of feel that like I always kind of field it as like a JH of
like education. And so like when somebody comes
to me and they say, oh, you're just being lazy.
I'm like, well no, like I'm not but let's talk about like the
comorbidities of ADHD. Like let's talk about like the
the different effects of ADHD that are not just being a
rambunctious toddler in the backseat, you know, because
especially for my type of ADHD combined like I have a lot of
inattention like and and ADHD looks so different.
Every person that that's kind of where I started from is from a
place of like, well, maybe you just don't understand ADHD,
which is totally okay. Because, like nobody, you know,
is Born Into the world, having a complete and concrete
understanding of any mental illness, it has to be learned,
it has to be taught. It has to be re-evaluated and re
understood is like, new Sciences, is brought to the
Forefront and developed. And so like also Times I'm just
willing to walk away from a fight.
Like that's also it was like, I've sort of like acquiesce to
the fact that like, I think my mom is just always going to like
kind of not believe me and like that sucks.
And and it's hard sometimes because the questions she asks
are usually geared towards like Are you full of shit?
Because I'm pretty sure that you're full of shit, you know?
But I'm actually grateful that I have that experience because
like I've processed I've dealt with it and all of that kind of
stuff, but it's really useful to have a person that I'm so close
to, and I love so much in my life, have that attitude because
it means that when people come to me and they say, hey, I'm
struggling with my parents. What do I do?
I can go. I know what that feels like.
I know how much that sucks. I see you.
I hear you your valid and here are some interesting resources
that you might want to share it. So I think that's kind of what
I've done. Yeah, I think that's really sad.
I think a lot of the times it might be in imperative.
It might be beneficial to explain to somebody what ADHD is
functionally speaking. But I also think it's important
to somewhere deep down know that it's not your job to explain it
to people. It's your job to accept yourself
and love yourself and so that's the thing.
Yeah, absolutely. Oh, did we just nailed that one?
We actually, like, I'm really impressed with how much we know
about. That was all good.
Okay. So actually it's really
interesting that we kind of ended on that note for that
question because of the next question that I totally had
prepared and ready to go is from the very amusingly named Doula
Parton, which I'm obsessed with and they wanted to know how has
ADHD affected your ability to form and maintain Oops.
Just very different thing than farming friendships.
Maintaining friendships is a very interesting?
No. Yeah.
On that question. So Ready set go.
That's right. I think the word maintain our
maintenance makes like if my ADHD was like a little Gremlin
that lives in my head, it makes the little Gremlin go like like
run into his little cave. I think one it's important.
To understand that friendships. Just generally do Evan flow,
they're going to be times when you see somebody all the time
then they're going to be times when you don't really talk for a
couple months and that's natural.
Some firm. Some friendships just do
dissipate you'll be relevant in each other's lives for a while
and then you'll grow apart and do your own thing and we'll see
each other five years from now to you know at a gas station in
Montana or something like that. So it's important to know that
relationships do have their own lives.
And it's not always either of your faults sometimes.
That's just the way that it is. But to just that being said, I
think it's important to understand what the other
person's love language is there's this concept of
languages which in short, everybody has a way that they
express and the way that they receive affection, physical
touch acts of service words of affirmation are some of them.
So understanding what communicates to that That you
care about them and care for them.
Erica what's it? What's your love language?
What's my love language Katie. Yeah French.
Fuck you. But so I think it's important to
understand on a communication level, what matters to them.
Another one big one is time spent so some people feel
affection from spending time with them, some people don't
need that to to understand that you love them and care for them.
And so understanding like oh if I just say hello to this person
once a week that maintains That's that communicates to them
that, I still care for them. Still think about them, some
people, it's like, oh, if I if I send them like a hey, I saw this
thing online and I thought it might be useful to you, so I
sent you the link or something like that, or I bought you one.
So like acts of service, those kinds of things.
So, understanding, sort of what, what, how a person receives
affection and indeed communicating to them.
How you receive affection Katie. You're looking at me funny that
I think I'm stupid impressed with how hard you dodged that
question. It was good, right?
I was really solid. I um I don't know what mine is.
That's a true story about me. Hmm I could I have a couple
guesses. See here's the thing.
Oh God this is not at all answering the question but it is
talking about a reality of living with ADHD.
Is that I have been a just a deeply deeply, traumatized
people pleaser for so long. That like I have no concept of
like what actually makes Me happy, hmm, I just like, because
I've consistently like and it's something that I've really been
like, working on lately, like once I started realizing that,
but I think that like is part of the reason why I struggle so
much with friendships because, like, I, like, I've taken the
test, I've taken the test a bunch of times, right?
And every time I've taken one of those like love language tests,
my answer changes. Hmm.
And like, my kitty, are you trying to please the test?
Yeah. I mean I was half sarcastic.
Yeah. But like but the other thing is
like I like I have very specifically remember a lot of
it had to do with the person that I was with at the time
because they would have a love language and I would want to
like like make that person happy and so I would change the way
that I naturally interact in order to keep that person happy.
And like, that's not good, like that's not a thing that you
should do. Don't recommend that.
But it means that like I'm amazing at making friends and
that's one of my, my things that I'm actually like I really take
it as a point of Pride, like, I am great at making friends and
there's something about my face that says, please tell me your
entire life story, stranger at the bus stop, and that happens
to me. You've been there.
Yeah. When that crazy happened to me.
Remember that guy Costco? Yeah, it was the first, it was
within like, 20 minutes of the first time we were ever
physically together. You like, pick me up at the The
airport and you're like, oh, let's stop by Costco and he's
like, okay. And we got like 30 feet in
before this guy stopped us and was like, you look just like my
cousin. My cousin's name is Beverly and
not detected on us like, oh my God.
This thing that like happens to me because I feel like, I don't
know if like some people are like, you know, like the science
behind like being an empath is very like dubious.
But like I think that I've always kind of like, naturally
approached like making friends will like my friends are cool,
but I really struggle with Maintaining them because the
circumstances in my life change, and then my relationship to how
I relate to that person changes and is really, really hard.
Like, I don't have a lot of close friends and like, I've
always been a person who struggles to stay in touch and
like to the point where, like, I've always felt a little dirty
because like I have like calendar reminder set.
Like, I literally have calendar reminders where it's like, hey,
you haven't reached out to, you know, Kelly and A while, message
Kelly or like message Sara Lee you like these people who are
really important to me in my life and I deeply love and I
deeply care about but my fucking stupid piece of shit.
Brain, first off tells me constantly that nobody likes me,
my piece of shit. Brain tells me all the time that
like they're not actually my friends.
They just feel bad for me and they're putting up with me.
So I have to constantly fight that and then on top of that is
like the ADHD factor of like time blindness and I guess it
has been six months since I message that person.
I thought I'd been a week and a half and and, and just like the
emotional permanence of friendship.
Like, it's something that I really struggle with, and it's
really embarrassing to admit. Like it's really embarrassing
that like, I have so many people in my life that like, I don't
talk to anymore because I'm too embarrassed.
Like I'm too embarrassed to like message them three years after I
fucking ghosted them. Cuz I perceived some slight and
be like, hey, so remember how I disappeared off the face of the
planet. Sorry, I'm less busy now.
Are you just yeah, like friendships or something?
That like ice, i super super struggle with, and I think it's
like a like, for me, it's not necessarily just my ADHD, but a
lot of it is like tangental to my ADHD like the rejection
sensitive dysphoria and like the people pleasing and the Just
like internalized, shame and guilt that I feel for having
struggled with so many things for so long without
understanding myself that just got way more vulnerable than I
thought that was going to be. I like I plan to make a joke
about how I need to text my friend back and then I just got
super real. I apologize.
I feel very similarly, I in in like early High School.
Interesting enough, just before I was medicated for the first
time I was like, when I walk down the hallway, I was like,
people were high-fiving me and I was like, I just I could make
friends with any Clique of people.
That's not to say that I was quote-unquote popular.
I mean, I guess I literally would be but I wasn't like one
of the cool kids or anything. Yeah, but I would talk about art
with the art kids and talk about nerdy stuff with the Nerds and I
would talk about metal with the metal heads and was great.
But then I started to feel like I was manipulating them and I
started to feel like, oh, I'm just really good at lying to
people and pretending like, Take care.
In fact, I'm so good at pretending like I care about
stuff. I've convinced myself that I
care about these things and I got like resentful at myself for
that and so I swung to the other side and I was like, okay, I'm
not going to be friends with anybody unless they are my
soulmate and that's how I've been kind of since then.
I mean, I enjoy, I'm better than now because I've realized that a
couple years ago, but I think it's important to understand
that, you know, there are a lot of different kinds of
friendships and You know, it's never too late to ask somebody.
Hey, how do you, what's your name again?
You know like, you know when you know somebody and you it's
you've known them for too long. Now to realize too that you
forgot their name you know like a new co-worker something like
that. It's always just just ask just
ask and so if it's been like so long that you feel bad that you
haven't texted them, they would still like to hear from you.
I think that's important too. Yeah.
We have a minute left. Do you have anything else that
you want to say? Um, yeah.
Probably, we can descend early. We can just have a bonus minute
for another question. Whoa, no.
I feel like I did have something.
Because I'm trying to show, I was better at friends like that.
Yeah. Because like, I'm so good at
like making friends because I make friends like super fast but
I just I wish I was better at keeping them.
Yeah. I know what you mean.
I know what you mean and it just yeah.
ADHD is this. There's an Insidious quality to
ADHD were. It's just sort of it touches
everything. It's not always obvious, but
it's got its hand in everything. And so like emotional,
permanence time, blindness out like Quote, unquote object in
permanent or permanence like the fact that you haven't seen in
somebody in like a week means they just don't exist anymore
like in your head insensitive this for you.
Oh my God. Anyway right and so it's it's
like no one thing is so obviously because of ADHD but
but it all it has its hand and everything.
Forgive yourself, love yourself, love others.
Everybody. You did it.
Congratulations. You made it to the middle of the
episode. We're really proud of you.
You should have a glass of water to celebrate normally at this
juncture. We would do a quick commercial
break but instead we wanted to take the time to let you know
that the next 12 ish minutes of the episode do contain a pretty
profound trigger and content warming.
We got a wonderful question about self-harm and ADHD and
spoilers. Since Eric and I have both dealt
with it in the past, we decided it was important to talk about.
We wanted to raise awareness and break the stigma and also just
inform about some of the science behind, self-harm and ADHD.
However, we also understand that this content might not be right
for everybody to listen to right now, and that's okay too.
Eric is working on editing a podcast together, while I record
these interstitials. So, in a minute, Eric from the
future is going to pop in to tell you the precise time stamp
to fast-forward to, if you would like to skip that conversation
altogether. everybody, the self-harm section will end at 38
minutes 15 seconds just so you know, So, the next one will
slow. You ready for a tone shift?
Katie reefer tonal change? Oh boy, sure yeah.
A rough day. So we'll see how this goes.
Well, so an anonymous user, a person.
Will ya person who asked to remain anonymous wanted us to
talk about self-harm and ADHD and there's a number of there
are a lot of different ways that these things are related people
with ADHD have poor impulse control.
Which can lead a lot to Once tendency to self-harm ADHD often
leads to comorbid depression. There's low fat low self-esteem
from poor school performance. All these things can can create
sort of a perfect storm, but I don't know.
I like, I don't know how much advice I guess I have, but I'm
certainly willing to talk about my experience and Katie, are you
been? We've both agreed so, well, I'm
sorry, I didn't realize that I've never really talked about
this, some kind of stumbling Thing right now but it's a
great. Do you want me to go first?
Sure. Go for it.
So, I mean, self-harm is top, like I literally just video
about this today. I want to talk but one of the
things that I I didn't know was how much science is being done
on the like science is being done on the rate of self-harm
and suicide and people with ADHD and like the statistics that I
pulled just to answer. This question are quite frankly,
very startling but like the the rate of kids and adolescents who
are hospitalized due to suicide and self-harm like the rate of
ADHD and those people is like Four times higher rate.
Yeah. And like, especially women, and
this is this is where I felt very personally attacked women
with combined type ADHD have the highest rate of self-harm and
suicide of any other type of ADHD group.
So if you look, yeah, so if you look at like, you know,
inattentive type whatever like they did, specific research on
combined type in women. An adolescent women with
combined type, ADHD are far more likely to have attempted
suicide, usually multiple times. But also out of that have
depression and eating disorders, engage in self-harm behaviors.
And a lot of them also have sexual trauma by the time that
they're adolescents, because of lot of the like risk-taking and
like impulse control things that they deal with.
And I guess this is the part where I say this, like I am one
of those people. Self harmed.
As a kid kid, I was in high school and in college and out of
college, it's fine. But that is like, it's another
thing. Like you were talking about ADHD
being Insidious and I mean I can talk about it for my own
experience but like the studies that are being done our job like
it's so obvious when you when you look at what is happening is
that ADHD is being missed and it's being under-diagnosed.
And so then you Internalize this idea that you are a failure
there. Something wrong with you, you
are broken, you should be ashamed, you should feel guilty
but because you don't have a healthy outlet for those
emotions and you want a modicum of control and he want a modicum
of, you know, emotional health, you take it out on yourself.
And you say well if I take it out on myself, then nobody else
is going to know, I don't have to bother anybody.
I don't have to make it a big deal.
And so we see the The rates of people who are suffering in
silence, like Silence with ADHD and self-harm are much much
higher and people aren't talking about it a lot.
And quite frankly, it's really hard to talk about on places
like Tick-Tock because it's like well you can't say self-harm and
you can't say suicide and I'm like, but people need to know
this. Like people need to know that
like not like refusing to get your kid diagnosed with ADHD,
like the rate of kids, who don't get diagnosed early enough, like
depression. Eating disorder.
Self-harm suicide, like all of those things they like they add
up and and they're provable their quantifiably
scientifically provable. And like I have absolutely
self-harm, I think self-harmed within the month.
Like I'm not proud of that, like I'm not, I'm not happy about it,
I'm not excited about it. But that is, that's the reality,
you know, of living with ADHD that a lot of people aren't.
About and I am I lied for years about my self harm scars.
Like I have this. I think I told you the lie.
I think I lied to you. Eric real about like I think I
told you the LIE have I told you the lie about the fucking Hot
Topic magazine in Chris's basement.
I don't think so actually. Okay well then that makes me
feel slightly better but I have like this very elaborate and
like just enough details to be believable but also like wacky
and adorable and like relatable, but it is a like scripted story
that I have perfected over the years because I'm so embarrassed
about my self harm, scars, like that.
And I've never told anybody that, like, I've never admitted
that like, that has been my story for like 15 years at this
point and it's like, I haven't memorized.
I have the whole like the, the spiel about like, oh my God,
silly, we were high school and like now, I was fucking arrest
anyone. Yeah, you have Told me that
story. Yeah, because I didn't know you
well enough at the time and I was scared.
You were going to see them and so I preemptively told you a lie
and I'm sorry I lied to you, Eric.
That's all right. I just want I just love you and
want you to be okay. That's the long and short of it.
So anyway, I talked for a really long time so I'm going to give
us bonus minutes for this one but do you want to talk?
Yeah sure let me know. I've course just want to say
like not just like for the podcast or whatever but just
because you Katie I love you and You just said all that.
I just you know I love you and I want you to be okay and you
deserves all the happiness in the world.
Thanks for being really nice to me.
Of course, I like you so much, so it's the relationship between
atsc and self-harm is one of those things where once you
learn about it, it seems so obvious.
It's like it just makes so much sense.
ADHD causes comorbid conditions, namely ADHD, or namely, anxiety,
and depression. Because if you're a kid in
school, You're not diagnosed with ADHD and you're doing
poorly on tests. And you can't sit still when
everybody else is able to just sit there and read you think
you're stupid, you think you're wrong, you think you're bad.
And so, you get depressed or you talk a lot and blurred out
stuff. And so you get anxious because
you're worried that you're going to act out when you don't intend
to. So all of a sudden, now you have
anxiety, those things lead to instances of, possibly not
liking yourself very much. Also ADHD makes impulse control
something really So difficult we have poor cortical inhibition.
Our brains. Don't go through these checks of
like do do we really want to do that?
That it does with neurotypical people?
We just tend to like act on impulses and so if you have the
impulse to self-harm you're way more likely to just go ahead and
do it because you're just, why wouldn't you you know?
Well, that's what your ADHD brain is.
Telling you is, why wouldn't you?
Yeah. And that's exactly, let's
largely how it started with me. So I, yes, I have a long history
with self-harm and just to say I won't get and I meant to say
specifics, but it started as It started as.
I just noticed that it got a rise out of people.
I was looking for attention. I really like making people
laughed. I really liked it.
Liked entertaining people. Just in general, whether I was
making them laugh or telling a sad story or something.
I just always liked attention, basically, I still do and I
noticed that I didn't particularly care.
If I was experiencing physical pain for a, you know, a period
of time, if it got people to go. Whoa!
Holy what the hell, you know. And so when I started
self-harming, Ring. It had nothing to do with
depression and self-loathing. I just didn't particularly care,
and it got a rat reaction out of people.
And so, you know, there was a time I won't, I won't get
graphic with like the graphic ones, but one of the stupider,
ones was a teacher in, like, seventh grade or something, was
passing around a stapler so that we could staple are like, these
sheets of paper together. And so is getting passed around
the room, and when it got to me, I just took it in, just stapled
it directly into my arm and then just kept passing it along.
And it hurt for a second but it made the person next to me.
Go whoa, what the fuck did you just do?
And I like that I like the attention and so it was like to
me it was a low cost because I didn't I felt like I wasn't
hurting anybody but just me, so, whatever.
And that just sort of opened the door to.
That's just an okay thing to do. I'm just hurting myself.
It's my body, fine. And so then later on, when my
depression did start making me want to self Arm.
I already had a precedent for that.
I already had a whole relationship with it and so it
was not very hard to just switch it into.
Now, this is something I do compulsively.
Now, it's not just for attention now, it's because well, because
I, it's a compulsion. It's like, I have this, I
resisting the urge to beat like a becomes addictive, it becomes
as if part of the problem is like especially in ADHD brains
like that's another component is like the lack of impulse.
I'm sorry to Cut you off. But like scienced about it like
like ADHD brains already deal with like a lack of impulse
control. But then also like there is a
certain dopamine Rush that comes with that particular activity
because you are making like, it is an emotional release and so
because ADHD brains are also. So predisposed to addiction is
much much easier to get hooked. On the emotional release of
self-harm and then it just becomes a self-perpetuating
cycle. And yes, another fucking thing
is like Addiction in ADHD. We separate episode about that
later. Yeah my gosh it also it serves
its served and serves. I mean I'm it's been a couple
months I suppose right on but it serves as a way of quieting my
brain because my brain is just Running it with her all the
time. Darting here darting there and I
feel an immense lack of control but once if I just don't, I
don't want to trigger anybody with me by being too specific or
anything. But if I like have an injury
let's say for one there's the initial endorphin rush when it
first happens and your whole body goes like oh whatever was
just happening now, it doesn't matter.
Now this is happening and that giving up of All of 0.now I
don't. Now it's very clear to me what I
need to do. I'm not bouncing off the walls
trying to figure out if I should be painting or drawing or doing
my homework or reading that thing, I said it would read or
responding to friends. Now the answer is I need to tend
to this wound that I have on my body.
And that would quiet my brain, which is another thing that was
a direct response to my ADHD. Now, I was lucky enough to get
diagnosed early on but I didn't realize it's the ubiquitousness
of my ADHD and how prevalent it was in every factor of my life
until like this year. And so looking back, it was also
directly related to my Deeds, to none of it was really obvious
lie. Blatantly like I self harm
because I have ADHD but it was always there.
It always had its hand somewhere in all those self-harm
behaviors. And so in city like you I know
we keep saying Insidious, but like it's so interconnected and
it's so Insidious and that's like, I don't know like I just I
get really Frustrated about it sometimes because I'm just like
I wish I mean we're doing it right now but it's like people
don't know. They don't know that.
That's like part of it. Yeah.
I I'm really genuinely frustrated with myself looking
back. Oh well, well no, I will thank
you. But I mean what I'm what I'm
frustrated about is that I didn't understand that ADHD
wasn't just a school thing. Like I was lucky enough to be
diagnosed when I was 15. Which is a very different from
you who got diagnosed much later.
But I didn't understand the gravity of it at all.
Until like, a year ago, I thought it was just, oh, this is
a label that they've given me because I can't do that.
I can't jump through the Hoops that the man, the system wants
me to jump through. So, I just took it as sort of an
insult from the people in charge.
I didn't realize that it's, it's a serious issue of executive
function in your brain that affects every part of your life.
And so, I'm frustrated, I didn't understand that earlier.
I'm glad I Now, but I'm really frustrated, I didn't understand
that earlier. That was a really good answer
nurse to sweets. Thanks, I just called you sweets
here. I'm leaving it in maybe, I don't
know. That's how you can call me
sweets. I like it when you call me
sweets. Hey, that's it.
Tonal shift tonal shift. Wait, is it my turn to ask a
question? I believe.
Yes, it is question for. Okay, great.
Okay, so we got the nearly identical question from two
different people, so that means that there's probably more
people who want to hear it. So Ashley and Kayla would like
to know, how do you remember to do?
Small tasks stuff. Like I'm going to send you that
email link or respond to an email or go get an oil change.
Pay your phone bill? Like that kind of thing like
those little minutiae daily tasks.
How do you? The mosquito task that mosquito
tasks. I just want to say first off are
you picturing? Ashley and Kayla as being like
identical twins, for some reason she remembers being like
roommates. Oh yeah.
And they were roommates and they were roommates, fine.
But also like, I'm just I'm not gonna lie to you, not feel like
really weird and vulnerable from the last question and so I don't
know how, like, totally shifted to like, have you considered
posted notes? Like I feel really do.
She being like, yeah. I'm like, here's like my like
heartfelt story but like self-harm, Then also like yeah.
So I spent a phone reminder like this is strong, like I realize
I'm not answering the question, but like that is such the
problem with ADHD. I think like that's that's what
I get so frustrated about is like there are these like huge
encompassing life problems of like my eating disorder and
depression, right? And then it's like, also, I
haven't got an oil change into Two years like and it's just
like and it's just like there's there's so much of it feel so
silly and so trivial. But then there's other parts of
it where you're just like, oh my God, like my mental health is
like, constant. Like I don't know how, I don't
know, it's really frustrating. It's so weird to think about,
but you know what I mean? I think it also, it's to the
detriment of the understanding of the overall condition to,
well, like, like, for example, the whole squirrel thing, you
know what I'm talking about. The instance Coral floral wall,
its own people are allowed to understand their own mental
health, however, that you know, but don't you each their own.
But did anybody who doesn't know there was a scene in a movie up?
I think it was from this movie, I just don't like being compared
to a Labrador Retriever, even though I compare you to a
Labrador, Retriever all the time and all the time.
I say all the time, I'm sorry. It's okay.
But there's a scene in the movie Up who's not sponsoring this
episode, where there's like this dog who like embody like Persona
4 is ADHD personified or dog. If I'd And there's just a scene
where it's talking and it's like talking talking talking, then it
goes squirrel because it just sees a squirrel and has to
acknowledge it, and then it goes back to what it was doing.
And so there's this whole idea of like that's ADHD is squirrel,
like that kind of thing, and dude, like to a lot of people
that like, it helps them trivialize, we're not
trivialize, it helps them deal with the immensity of it, and it
helps them, you know, bring back down, to bring it back down to
Earth. But to me, it's like, you know,
ADHD causes, you know, suicide and self-harm and a bunch of
awful. And so it's yeah, like I
shouldn't trivialize it, but I think it's just like, I hate it
because like I'll start talking about ADHD and invariably
somebody about that squirrel. Am I right?
And I'm like, one in three women with ADHD have eating disorders
and they've tried to kill himself by the time they were
18. But thank you for your comment
like because that's just like I like have that knowledge in my
head now and I'm just like and that's why I get frustrated
because I just like I don't know.
Like I need. Yeah.
I think it's because I think I think it's easy for people.
From the outside people who don't have ADHD to look in and
see that as being the whole thing.
A like, oh, I forgot where I put my keys, but her, but I do.
But like, so and so, but it's in, that's to the detriment of
like these might lie, fucking mind-blowing statistics about
eating disorders, and self-harm particularly about women in
Eating Disorders, in women and self-harm.
Like, it's to the detriment of the furthering of the education
of those things and that, yeah, that's fucking super
frustrating. I About to go on a whole thing
about ADHD representation in media.
But that was a different question.
That somebody else asked, did we decide to answer that one?
I don't think we did, but we can't because I was just sitting
here thinking about the fact that like, the too much most
ADHD characters that I can think of her.
Both Labrador. Retrievers dug from up and then
mr. Peanut butter from BoJack
Horseman? Like yeah, both laughing
towards. That's true.
So it wasn't on the list but I feel like we're right in the
middle like I thought, well let's try to answer the first
question. I know shit point out.
All right, remembering to do small tasks you do when you got
low through my list. Yeah, what do you got?
Okay, so here's my list. Keep a list on your phone and if
you're like oh but I lose list. Keep a list on your phone and do
like a like an auditory list like because sometimes like you
lose list because, like, you're bad at, like, writing down
information or like, you know, losing pieces of paper or
whatever. Figure out the system that works
for you, like if you need auditory like set a phone
reminder and Reminder like posted notes plate, put things
like visually in places where you need it.
The other thing is like if a task is going to take you four
seconds just fucking do it and then it's the hardest thing in
the entire world when you have executive dysfunction.
But like for me the most useful thing in the history of the
world was when I just started putting reminders in my calendar
immediately. So like I would go get an oil
change and then I would immediately like while I was
sitting in the waiting room of that oil change, I would put in
a reminder in My calendar for next and use repeating reminders
like, you only have to set it up once like if you forget to get
your haircut, which is something I do all the time.
Like set of repeating reminder for four weeks or so, you know,
whatever. Like there's so many, like
different reminder systems, but like, you have to find the one
that works for you. And that's the thing is like I
can sit here all day until you to use Post-it notes but you use
whiteboard and that works better for you.
And so we just well I mean we haven't released the episode yet
but we have a So coming up effective systems and systems
that work for you. And that's the thing is like I
can give advice all day but if it doesn't, if it's not how you
synthesize and interpret information, it's fundamentally
useless. Yes, I think you.
Oh gosh, I just totally like bounced off the walls of my head
for a second there. My gosh but I think I have much.
So my ones are creating creative room.
Minor on your phone or like, a to-do list on your phone.
So if you have a to do list, you're making right on your
phone, then screenshot the note and set the note as your lock
screen background. That way.
Every time, your phone like wakes up, it's immediately just
the to do list. So that one another one is,
yeah, if it's easy, do it. Now, when I was working in this
really high-level kitchen and of struggling so hard, my like,
Mentor in the kitchen just said, if it takes less than one
minute, do it right now, like do it immediately, And that's a
hard thing to start doing, but it becomes a habit pretty
quickly, you'd be surprised and so I like I have in my head just
if it's easy, do it now like like those syllables like are
set in my head so if I'm like, getting up from my desk and
there's like a dirty dish on my desk, my brain wants to go like,
oh, there's an illness, that's such an easy task.
I'll just do it whenever like, it doesn't even matter.
It's nothing. And that's how it ends up
sitting there for three months. And so I think, oh, it's so
easy. I'll do it right now.
Before and I like before I even have time to hesitate, I'll just
start doing it and just like force your body to start doing
it and then before, you know, it's over.
So that's a big one. And that goes for setting
reminders on your phones for like oil changes and stuff like
that. Like, like you were just saying
do it when you're in the oil change office.
Like what the oil change office? I think just how much I know
about cars. Like, I mean, they have offices,
I know, but it's not the oil change.
Its the Jiffy Lube office or whatever.
But so if you're thinking about like, oh, I need to do that this
like set the reminder. Right then.
And so basically a big one, the theme of all of it is a video
that I actually made it to talk about today.
If you ever find yourself thinking, oh, I'll remember
that. Just like when you think that
when you think, oh, I'll remember that.
No, you will not. I know you won't write it down
somewhere. And so like training, my brain
to have like these trigger phrases.
So like, if I think to myself, I'll remember that my it's a
trigger phrase. It causes my brain to go in
this, find a piece of paper right now or go to the
Whiteboard right now or make that phone call right now.
So it's like I don't it's just if you think that thought that's
the next thing, the next one is if it's easy, do it now.
So if I see something in a little like, oh, it's so easy
would take 10 seconds to do that.
If it's easy, do it right now. So I'm just trying to set up
those trigger. Thoughts in your head basically
sorry I interrupted you, I lack impulse control.
I was gonna cut it out but now I have to leave it in.
Oh, that's fine. The other one is I was his most
obvious thing in the entire world, but automatic bill pay
has my life. And like, even like in there
have been specific times were like a company that I like our
trash company. For example, doesn't technically
speaking offer bill pay, but after they repossess my garbage
cans for the second time, which is very embarrassing as an
adult. They, I called the company and I
was like, Listen, I have ADHD. It's really hard for me to
remember to pay my bill on time. Is there any way that you guys
could send me like an email reminder or set me up in the
system for like and they're like, oh yeah we got you.
And so, like sometimes solving a problem involves sitting on
customer service for like 15 minutes, which is also in
itself, a special level of hell for people with ADHD.
But a lot of companies are willing to work with you because
like, they want your money and they want your business.
And so like they are there are accommodations that businesses
will make with you. You just sometimes have to call
and ask and that's something that I was honestly surprised to
learn. I just have to just point out
real quick. Did you say trash company?
Yeah. Is trash collection.
Privatized in Georgia? Yes, that's why we don't have
recycling, what? Yeah, we don't have recycling
because like the trash companies are all privatized and you can
choose between like three or four different trash companies,
but like the trash companies charge like a A crazy fuck ton
of money, like it's like a whole thing.
Like yeah, it's not through the city, we don't have City trash,
we got somewhere somewhere out there.
Rand Paul, just got a raging hard-on.
Yeah, political jokes, that's why I like.
And also that's why everybody on Tick-Tock keeps making fun of my
garbage cans because it looks like they say come on the side.
That's the that's the garbage can company that we have it,
CLM, but it looks like I'm glad you can just take one line.
It is turn it into come. That's really funny.
There is in my hometown. There is a road called flicker
FL AA. You know Flicker and so if you
just connected the capital L and capital I would say fucker.
It's amazing. Beautiful.
Okay. Do you want to do is next
question? Yeah our oh well this is proof.
All right we have 10 minutes left but I could still use.
I'm sure the question was have you ever lost a job from ADHD?
I have I've not, I've struggled with jobs because of ADHD.
I also learned Very upsetting Lee and very much the hard way
that I can. I'm not a good classroom
teacher. Like that was all I wanted to be
was that was why I went to grad school was because I had full
intention of graduating from grad school and then getting a
job like teaching theater or like Shakespeare it like a
college and I had to learn through just I cannot stress
this enough failing at that job. So Horribly and so completely.
And so thoroughly that I was like, well at least I know
before I dedicated the rest of my life to it and so that kind
of sucked when I realized that, but I've never been like fired
for. I've never been fired.
I lost my job during the pandemic, but I still wasn't
fired. They just like couldn't keep me
on so we're laid off. There's a difference like as in
like fired fired as a stepbrothers joke.
The way hot out white-hot. Up to press relevant.
Wow. Oh my gosh.
Remember. Last week when that movie came
out that Will Ferrell is always relevant.
Okay, I've never been fired from a job for I've never been well.
I quit before I was would have gotten fired basically.
So I was in this kitchen in Napa California.
That was like a crazy high level quite kitchen.
I got the job just off of like Charisma and white privilege and
white male privilege and I was just getting my I was.
So in over my head I was getting my ass kicked every day and the
thing like high-level Cooks like think like Ratatouille.
That high-level Cooks like that their mental superheroes, like,
they have an immense amount of technical skill and it's
incredible. But the thing that was
absolutely mind-boggling to me is just the amount of tasks that
they could just keep in their head at any given time.
Like, they could like 30 seconds, they could nail
perfectly like they could just go, I'll grab it in 30 seconds
and then in almost exactly 30 seconds.
They would, they can just at any given time.
They're just they're like computers bird.
Same food. Yeah.
It has actually been three minutes.
All right. So there's insane.
And so keeping up with them, I had to develop a lot of the
organization techniques that I use today just to try to keep up
with these people. And so I was I mean it was it
was unhealthy, it was a really unhealthy time in my life.
I mean, I was like, I quit. So anyways, no matter how hard I
tried my ADHD wouldn't let me. Where's next thing?
You can't be high level cooking, have ADHD, of course you could.
But that combined with the fact that I just wasn't skilled Tough
to be there. I couldn't.
I couldn't keep up. I could just barely on my best
day. I could just barely keep up and
so I ended up quitting that job. I quit because I was so afraid
of going to work because my chef at the time was a screamer, he
would just publicly scream at you in front of everybody and it
happened multiple times a day and like I would it was insane.
He would walk up to me when I was on my Prep Station working
and he would just go Eric. What do you think you're doing
wrong, right? Actually, you didn't say Ark.
He would say junior because I was the youngest person in the
kitchen soon. Say jr.
What do you think you're doing wrong right now?
And I would just be like sweating and going as fast as I
can. I would say, I don't know.
Chef news huh you really don't know, huh.
And then we just walk away. This is brutal.
But anyways, I was so afraid of going to work that one day I was
I was about to try to break my fingers so that I wouldn't have
to go into work. Um, phrase here and so that's an
I was like I need to quit this job right now.
Like I can't it's not healthy because I just kept pushing
myself so Anyways, that job I didn't I wasn't fired, but I
eventually probably would have gotten fired, but I quit that
job because I think if I didn't have ADHD, I think I probably
could have managed. But I mean, I wasn't qualified
to have that job in the first place.
Like, which isn't a rebuke of myself.
It's just true. Like, if somebody asked me to
plan the, you know, London Symphony, Orchestra, I couldn't
do that either. And so who's to say, whether if
I didn't have any HD, would I be have been able to keep up it
would Easier. So I don't know if I directly
lost that job for my ADHD but it certainly helped and certainly
helped. So I'm going to do something
bold so we are helping me lose my job.
Not helped me with the job. Okay.
So we have like five minutes left and I feel like we answer
that question because I think that was more of just like a
question. I feel like you can answer that.
So I'm going to commandeer the last five minutes to ask you
this question. This is a really cool question
that I want to read out loud. So Katrina wanted to know, how
do you talk yourself out of making rash?
Impulse decisions and that came specifically out of the video
that I had made the other day where I was talking about how I
really want to get like a full sleeve tattoo and I told the
story of my bad shitty impulse decision tattoo.
So how do you, how do you talk yourself out of clothes because
it decisions. Eric I usually don't.
Frankly I mean the oh no honesty of than.
Yeah I mean I usually don't I don't want to pretend like I'm
some Paradigm of success. Is that a helpful phrase made
sense? I mean on the off chance that I
do the hardest part is noticing that you're being rash because
it's like you have to observe yourself and that's hard.
Like if you're the one being rash, then how do you know that
it's difficult as fuck. But I would say just hesitate
more when it comes to making decisions just like do manually
hesitate. You like weights, really fine?
How do you do it? Well, it depends on what it is
because like, I have a bag like impulse spending problem.
Like, I spent too much money this month because I was very
sad. And so one of the things that
I've tried to do is like, if I'm like, really like oh I want this
thing. Like I want this thing and I
want this thing now because that's the thing that my brain
does is I go oh you should buy this dress because you could
make a tick tock or like whatever.
Leave it in my cart for 24 hours.
Like that is something that I'll do is like I've started kind of
trying to be better and like training myself.
That way with tattoos I have a strategy and because after like
you like you really have to learn the lesson of getting a
deeply regrettable tattoo before you like really learn how to
deal with it, like, after that. But for me, what I do is if I
get it, if I have an idea for a tattoo, I set up a calendar,
reminder And the first reminder is for six months and then the
second calendar, reminder is for 12 months, like, after that
date, like I'll go. Oh, I should get that as a
tattoo. So, I immediately get out my
phone, I put it in my calendar, and then six months, go by, and
then six months after the day that I've completely forgotten,
I look at that, I go, do I still want that tattoo and then I go
okay, or whatever. And then 12 months goes by a
year to the day, my phone goes off and I go.
Uh-huh. Do I still want that tattoo?
And so, Is why I am very, very happy with all of the tattoos
that I have now because I quantifiably knew that I wanted,
every single one of them for, at least a year.
Nice, that's rock-solid. Then actually, that reminds me.
I actually do have one little strategy that works.
Sometimes at the end of the day you have to, you have to have
some self. Can you have to will yourself to
not do the thing? But when I like my big thing is
ordering, takeout, like if I'm really sad one night or I'm
having a bat-like, I'll just impulsively.
I buy or like $60 worth of sushi or something.
But what I do is I think if somebody paid me $60 to not get
sushi right now, would I take that money?
Abso-fucking-lutely I would take that money.
Well, it's exactly the same thing.
I would have $60 more. If I didn't order sushi, then if
I did, it's exactly the same thing.
And so if it's a monetary thing, I think if somebody paid me the
cost of that dress to not get that dress, Would I take the
money? Yes, I absolutely would.
Well, perhaps the answer is yes. Perhaps answers.
No, that's a really good strategy.
Yeah. I also, what will I do it?
When I, when going home from work early, like, if somebody's
gonna send somebody home, you know, if you're making, you
know, ten bucks an hour and somebody says, hey, you want to
go home two hours early? It's like, well, would you pay
$20 to go home right now? No, maybe answer is yes.
But I also like I, I've found like like healthy Moments for
quite a few activities that are surrounded by impulse control
because like one of the big things is like, I am bulimic.
And so I struggle with like binging and purging and so one
of the things that I started doing was like I keep a ton of
fruit around my house because having fruit around like,
especially like watermelon and like like where you can just eat
a shit ton of watermelon and it doesn't really matter.
I do that because then like if I'm like impulsively like I To
eat. I need a binge.
I need to like, do something then I'm not like pounding an
entire chocolate cake, which is something that like I will do if
I'm not treating myself kindly and so keeping like healthy
alternatives around the house is like, it's challenging because
you have to remember, like go to the grocery store.
Get fresh fruit like that. It's a whole fucking thing.
But I feel like the investment and the hassle of like keeping
my body safer than I would be. If I'm it's like eating and
purging an entire cake is worth the investment of like
remembering to have to buy Clementines and watermelons
times. Yeah.
Totally. Well, I believe that's all the
time. We have kto Soros yet.
Yes. Hey dude, I was like those
you've never done it like that before it was that was really
weird and I hated it. I was trying.
Well, that's all the time. Death like a dumb, like a disc
jockey. I want to have.
We should start having sound effects wedding.
DJs ya in the shower, this is moose in the Raptor coming at
you live. It's not life.
Harley are like, DJ named moose in the Raptor.
It's, it is within the Raptor. They sometimes, I forgot about
that. Yeah, we were having been moose
in the Raptor. Thanks, really?
City Quiz. Well, Jesus Christ morning
shock-jock DJ's live with themselves cocaine Katie.
Okay. And that's it for another
episode of infinite Quest as always from me.
And from Eric, thank you so much for supporting us.
Thank you so much for believing in us and thank you for being
part of the infinite Quest family.
Before we go, we just want to give a shout-out to our newest
patreon subscribers. So thank you to Claire and
Gabrielle and Ben, and Mariah and Kate, and Rebecca and Connie
and Ashley. Thank you all so much.
For your support. We are so grateful for your
belief in infinite Quest and if you're sitting at home and
you're interested in supporting infinite Quest, you can do so by
checking out patreon.com slash infinite Quest until next week.
Thank you all so much. Remember to be kind to yourself,
remember to drink some water, and remember that.
We love you. Hey everybody.
It's me Katie asaurus and we just wanted to let you know that
this week's episode is brought to you by our good friends over
at honey. Playbox what is Honey?
Play box, you might ask well I'm gonna give it to you straight,
they sell sex toys but here's the thing.
How do you play box believes that pleasure play health and
accessibility are necessary for positive experiences of
sexuality. And you know what?
Here it if request we agree especially in conversation with
how tough sex and sexy times can be when you're struggling with
ADHD, or Nor any sort of neurodivergent, see having open
honest conversations about sex and sexuality are really, really
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They also want you to save a little bit of money while you're
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use code infinite quest to get 20 percent off your order.
That's like honestly not a bad. Deal you guys.
I'm not gonna lie also just because I think this is very
funny. Honey.
Play box was kind enough to send over just a ludicrous amount of
stuff for me and Eric to look at and talked about.
So, in the next couple of weeks, you're going to see some content
over on the YouTube. And we're also going to talk
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relationships. So we will be posting that
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So again, use code infinite Quest.
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Ox and have have fun. Okay, bye.