Everybody it's me Katie asaurus and welcome back to infinite
bust this week on infinite Quest were talking more about
neurodivergent. See in school with the IEP
strategist AKA Kim cocido. As always.
Before we begin. We've got a few announcements
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It doesn't matter. We watched it.
We watched the movie. It was great.
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patreon.com/lenguin a quest with that shifts kiss of an opener.
Welcome to episode 41 of infinite quest with the IEP
strategist. Kim cocido.
Here we go. Transition.
Kimberly qz, Joe thank you so much for being with us.
So we were hoping you could start with just a little bit
about how you got into IEP and and sort of your journey to get
where you are. Well well for those who don't
know, an IEP is and independent educational program and so it is
a that is the name for the paperwork that follows a child
who qualifies for special education in school.
And that paperwork kind of plans out their education and how
they're going to meet goals and different accommodations and
things that they need to end up to get a free appropriate,
public education or faith, as it were.
And so I have a 15 year old daughter who is autistic and was
diagnosed at probably a little bit after age two.
And one with that, you know, you put your kid in the public
school system and And they're going to teach them and you
know, they have special needs are going to take care of them
and all of that. And sometimes I happens and
sometimes it doesn't and very early on when I was trying to
figure out, okay, which program should she be in?
And, you know, how does this work?
I was felt as if nobody was sharing information with me and
I kept being told, you are an equal Paris.
You'll hear this all the time. Parents aren't equal, part of
the IEP system and I thought, wow.
I don't know what's going on. I wanted to know which program
they Place kids sometimes depending on the state.
So some schools don't have this service or that service.
And so they may say okay well your zone for a DC school but
your child can go to 123 school instead and I wanted a list of
the services so I could look it up.
And they said well this and just little things like that and I
thought this isn't really Good. And so I ended up hiring and
Advocates, which is kind of like the general title that I call
myself. The IE.
I made that up the IEP strategist because Advocate kind
of puts schools on edge, you know, like oh my God somebody's
going to come in and yell at us but I ended up hiring an
advocate to advocate for me and after she came to a meeting with
me, I said, really cool. I'm going to do what you do.
You know, she kind of chuckle. Bring me a few years later and
so I studied under her and we recently moved to a new state
and so I kind of opened my own shop here.
That is me. So what I do now is I kind of
teach said covid, you know, I don't know.
A lot of times I go into the schools and, and sit next to the
parents and help advocate for their kids and go, but happens
sometime. So I kind of explained it.
I do all 50 states now but I also want to teach parents how
How to do this themselves, I don't want them to feel like
they're dependent on me. So, that is kind of a pivot that
I'm doing now and creating ways to teach parents how to do this
on their own, or their Advocate, awesome.
So, I guess maybe this is kind of like a basic question, but so
you talked about what an IEP is, but like, who is an IEP for like
and and what kind of things can you ask for with an IEP
question. A lot of people do.
Understand that so and maybe it's like, so it's just a
document. So it's a, it's a, let's see.
My daughter's is probably about 15 pages but I didn't want that
was 58 Pages the other day. So depending on that child's
needs. But in order to get an IEP,
there are three qualifications. And so the IEP is a federal,
it's part of the federal law, the individuals with
disabilities in Education Act idea.
So, you know, we Like, aren't we like our acronyms, and the
government. And so, if a child has one of
13, classifications, or categories of diagnosis, such as
autism, dyslexia, those types of things, there's different
categories, and the testing of that child, that's done at the
school's expense with the child needs permits that, that
disability hinders or will hinder their child's education,
then they qualify for an AP and I hate the term.
IEP is also interchangeable with specially designed instruction.
So if for instance, the child has a, let's talk about my kid
all the time. She's in here by the way, so you
don't pay your source to her. But she, she qualifies or naep
for autism and what they what that means for her and it
doesn't mean creepy autistic kid she gets.
Specially designed instruction. So she's in regular knife gray
classes because I'm actively her testing show that she could
handle the classes, but autism. As some people know, is a
behavioral can, you know, affect Behavior, can affect social can
affect emotional. And so for her, she needs a lot
of prompting and help with coping with anxiety, coping with
sensory processing. She wears noise cancelling
headphones and executive functioning is huge for her as
we No, of having ADHD are Helm of you have ADHD?
I don't know. Oh yes, oh yes, I do very much
here. Yeah, like for another child
that has that may be dyslexic. That child may be in third
grade, they can handle all of the work of a third grader, but
they would get specially designed instruction in Reading.
And so that, you know, that would be outlined in an IEP.
So it's basically the biggest thing is specially designed
instruction. How can we Design This
instruction to meet the needs of the learner that has any of
those categories of disabilities?
This is this is maybe just a absolutely ridiculous.
Semantics question when you say instruction you're talking about
like, the actual teaching in a classroom, not like you get a
different kind of list of things.
Is to tell you how to do your homework, right?
Both. Okay, okay.
I was confused, I don't mind. Ridiculous questions, a
ridiculous question. I am like the founder of
ridiculous questions. Cool.
So it's instructions and instructions cool.
There's a bunch of different parts and on the federal level,
it has to include certain parts and then there's Different
software companies that have we can make money off of, you know,
selling would try to school so they all have, but they all have
the fundamental. So where's the kid?
Now, what is their disability? How does that hinder?
Their learning? What are the goals?
So one of my daughter's goals because it's ADHD is to work on.
Not interrupting, she has to she's very impulsive.
So she may jump in and answer a question when the teacher is
Nestor jump in. And so and then how is she going
to reach that goal? So they would say, well we want
to reduce that by so much. How are we going to teach her?
And what type of instruction? Are we going to provide?
That will help her with that particular goal?
And then it's measured every year.
So was wearing, a seems like there's sort of a very broad
scope of of things that a child might need to that might might
help a child and I imagine it it's it might be difficult for a
parent or the child themselves to Out what they can ask for.
And so I was wondering if you could talk about other any sort
of lesser-known things that can be asked for with an IEP or
uncommon things that can be asked for with an IEP that our
listeners might want to know. Yeah.
And it's interesting because you can ask for anything.
Anything. I but my father, there's a lot
of if you are familiar with some of the behaviors of autistic
kids, a lot hat will have deflation Even on chewing them,
so they may be chewing on things.
So my daughter for the longest time, was the second or third
grade, because I don't remember, but she had a pencil and like,
so she had her own counsel box, you know, because hers has all
the bite marks and, you know, when I was a kid, you had your
own little school supplies, you share with looks of now they got
share so, so no cheat our own little boxes.
Nobody wanted the pencil that she chewed on, and I found out
about that. Oh my God, that's the food.
My kid chewing on, pencils all day.
No. And they suggested that we
provide her with these Chewy's. So, there's these necklaces that
have little rubber things on them or whatever.
And then she could chew on Boone,
Elementary School was great. We give her a piece in the
morning and after lunch, we provide you the teachers with
the gum and you give her a piece in the afternoon and they were
like okay, and we did that for the longest time.
I think one of the wish you went to middle school, they were
allowed to have gum but that and there's some of the things that
I asked for that get-get fought. I like for kids to be able to
record classes, especially if you.
About sensory, sensory issue and you may or ADHD, you may have a
slower processing and I usually get around that by saying you
can be in control. So we have a tape recorder if
you can see that little mini David Porter and we provide that
so this signature so it's like okay I know there's teachers the
teachers a tight and always wonder what's going on in your
class that you want my kid just randomly.
Yes. But I'll say, we will provide it
to you the teacher, Mike. He doesn't just get the turn it
on and on you turn it on. When you're going to your
lecture, then you turn it off and just upload it to us, you
know. It's a little, it works like
that. I've had to fight.
This doesn't happen too much anymore, but you know, we used
to have books for school and now everything's online.
But I always wanted an extra set for home because kids lose
things or they forget to bring something home.
But there's all So different things.
There's some kids, you know, you don't get to eat in school and
public school was much anymore. So there's kids that really need
like a boost a snack. I have no idea why they don't
like to do that, but if I write it in the IEP, you can, a lot of
times, you can tell the difference, a big difference.
If a kids sometimes, some of these kids have lunch at like
10:30 and I'll get out of school till 3:00, you know what's so
funny? So it's just like you know kind
of like out-of-the-box ones. Usually you'll hear more about
special me. There's a kid that kids that
have cognitive impairments and so, their special education has
to do with making sure that they are learning in the best what
they way that they can at their level.
And but the way the government is designed, they have something
called the least restrictive environment, meaning, they want
those children to be learning alongside their non-disabled,
peers, as often as possible. So how we make that happen is,
you know, how can we put this child who may not be able to
function at the same level as a ten year old and is maybe not
able to read or whatever any other is my can we put them in
those environments as often as possible?
So, And we set it up so they get to take art class with the kids,
or can we set it up, so they get to take PE, or recess or those
types of things. And so, The I stay employed
because there are plenty of schools out there that do not
either understand the law. And they just kind of we've
always done things this way. And this is how it goes, and
then I get a client may tell me and I'm just like that's not the
law but I've kind of explain it to the school and we do it or
they're just saying it because they don't want to do it.
Well, it's interesting that you talked about the law because one
of the things that we run into the most and the feedback that
we hear a lot from parents is that because ADHD is not
specifically classified as a learning disability.
It makes getting IEPs for your ADHD kid often.
A lot more difficult especially if they don't have like a
learning disability like dyslexia or something on top of
it. Do you have any advice for like
our ADHD parents? Who are maybe a week?
Maybe like seeing their kids struggle?
And but like the law says that it's not a learning disability.
So you're out of luck. Well, the law also said, this
is, I get a piece of people that are listening.
I'm tapping. I did, I please like that for
kids that have. But, um, yeah, the the main
thing that I like to tell parents is what you are seeking.
Testing. So in order to get an IEP, even
if you get a diagnosis from a doctor, the doctor uses that
DSM-5 booklet and they go through, check, check, check
check company, you know, and that's it.
And then they get a code that code goes to the insurance
company. And every time, for instance, I
say 299 autism. That's, you know, we're going to
pay for medicine under this coach.
When you go to the school, you take that piece of paper and
say, hey, I've got this. ADHD diagnosis and school says,
so in your life, I want to get services.
And so, the school says out, We have to do our own testing, so
parents will axis it's all over again, but it's all parents to
lead with nothing gnosis, but the symptoms.
So and this is, I'm speaking in particular to ADHD.
If you can have a diagnosis of other than ADHD, you can say,
hey, we just got this dyslexia diagnosis.
But if you are looking for the school to do any sort of testing
Google, the symptoms that everybody knows.
Everything that they D HD and then say, oh she doesn't, she
doesn't, she doesn't think she's especially girls that are like.
That was me, not hyperactive but in a set of that you can just go
check. Check check, check check and
tasty. Plea is I've spent, you know,
these three or four things and as a result our great seem to
really be something. You know can we or as a result
her grades are not where they could be because If they did
that, to me, they would say what she's capable.
She's not doing it, you know? So that is so we just want to
get in the door to get the testing to see what's going on,
what ends up happening. What I also end up doing is
explaining to parents that if the child is, it does have ADHD
but does not need. Specially designed instruction.
A 504 will be fine for them. You run into the situation like
my youngest, our kids are seven years apart.
So my youngest is 8 where she's ADHD hyperactive but I did not
realize how inattentive she was until like first grade and I was
just like you paid no attention. And you know,
Because the government requires that a the so faith-based and
Faith sap like party e stands for free appropriate, public
education and the a is appropriate.
Well you know appropriate that just means we get you in the end
you pass, you get out there if you want better inappropriate
you better pay for pop private school.
That's really what it is. And so you'll hear Pastor asked
for a little Katie to like the basis of a thousand dollar a
day, private school, we're going to give you appropriate, you
know. So there's Parents get
frustrated because Kim's bring home sees, gives big sisters are
bringing home AIDS and a pluses and the parents know they can
was you know, just on the same par but what's going on?
And yeah, they lost those that if the child is exhibiting any
sort of thing that could impede their learning, the school needs
to provide an evaluation. And that is, what's going to
drive the need for an IEP. Hmm.
So I was thinking with the word appropriate.
Priya it just sort of hit me like a ton of bricks because
that just explains so much throughout like by all public
schooling experience. Like, oh my God.
So much of it was just appropriate.
Look, it was just like is fine here.
You know what? In terms of?
Yeah, exactly. Right.
It'll just movie on. And I was wondering in terms of
ADHD specifically what types of accommodations or specific IEP
properties. I suppose I guess have you found
And our most frequently asked for with people with ADHD, or
with children with ADHD, what seems to help the most, what are
just some common practices for IEPs for ADHD students, either a
hyperactive or inattentive. Well, now, let me, let me go
back a little bit and tell you that.
There are two things that a child with ADHD in the school.
So they could eat her qualify for an IEP and that's typically
where we have to modify the education.
So, That child has a math class, for instance, like my child who
did not display a number. I mean she just was not picking
up ABC's and you know, right? It's not you have to first grade
I would say and she be like 80, but she does love it, had picked
it up. So she needed the instructional
piece. So for an IEP for a and IP
students that need that does not have a learning disorder, but
may need to catch up. Cuz maybe the parents in catch
it, then those would be academics and that's fairly
easy. That would be kind of like,
okay, we see where they're learning on this grade level.
We're going to work with them to get up to speed, but for the an
IEP also has something called accommodations and that's kind
of what you're referring to. So accommodations are what
accommodations level the playing field?
I was like, say accommodations are like access.
So you have a kid that has a wheelchair.
I was he going to get in? Where's he going to sit?
You know what? And are we going to make for
this kid to be able to sit with all the other second graders and
take school? Does he have a special desk.
These are all the things. What are we going to provide?
So a kid with ADHD as executive functioning issues, how are they
going to take the material that the teachers, teaching it in
their journal, or whatever? For homework.
So we would have a lot of help on the front end.
So the younger the child is, we're going to do a lot of help
teaching that child, and that's where I fight for the IEP,
because that That requires specially designed instruction.
You will just tell a kid that has ADHD, okay?
You've got an accommodation for writing your homework.
Let's see. You write it.
No, you are not inherent. And so the extra time on tests
is a big one, but it also requires teaching at yourself,
you think? So it will just be finishes at
test for Hearst might give them your finished, you know, really
cool late and she's going to make mistakes, you know.
So it's like, okay, I still need to find some way to teach her
that number one, it doesn't who cares?
If you took you twice as long to finish the big thing is that
you're getting the better, you know, a good grade.
So extra time on tests. If the parent is telling me this
child needs to be taught these things and that's where I will
be like, okay, we need an IEP We can't just assume it.
A lot of breaks goal has changed, as I will be 52 next
year. So I went to school from 74 to
87. We had like recess not
functioning today based on all the stuff, the kids have to
learn now gym every day and do all these great things and Good
luck. So brakes were built in.
But when you have that HDMI just sitting there listening and the
way are, you know, we've got electricity, does makes you just
want to go quick quick quick. So your kid with ADHD may need
extra break. So those are things that I build
in, and I also tell parents, we've got a, not only do we have
to build a need extra rights, we have to build in and advocacy
goal. They my connection is unstable
but it let me know and advocacy goal where the child learns, how
to ask because these kids can have my kids over here.
Huh. Chanting Fastpass what she
would. Hold up her little thing which
you need separation. Never used it when you're
feeling like perhaps or whatever ask for it.
How do you teach that to a child?
You know? And so I think there's a big
education that is there's a big part of Education that's lacking
with our general education, teachers full, two feet of the
teacher. I've taught I don't want to hear
this old, you don't know what it's like.
Yes, I have a middle school. Okay.
The kids are you know, they're all hormonal and they don't know
their name and those crazy, but these kids are the teachers.
They go to school for four, they wanted.
I want to teach my teacher, Miss Johnson in the first grade of
the best for I love her and then they get out.
They've never done any sort of special education.
And now the way Society is, and the way the law is, these kids
are in the class because they can tolerate the curriculum, but
the behaviors are more for a special education teacher.
So the the general education to do is like explore further and
so there's a disconnect between what's happening in college with
these curriculum and teaching easy, those teaching teachers,
how to be teachers. And then once they get out, they
have a class were depending on where they're serving.
May have twenty to thirty percent of kids on IEPs that are
in what those government defines as the least restrictive
environment. So it's all a matter of how are
we going to help these kids? That have a disability it well,
and how are we going? To have these teachers recognize
ADHD as a disability that I'm not choosing choosing to not
show you what's behind it. I'm not chewing tobacco.
You want to? It's just on my list of things
to do. It's it's I think it's a
learning curve that really has to happen and I just do it one
by one with when I go into these meetings.
I just kind of reset the tone in the room and explain.
But this ability a little bit more.
Hey, everybody. You did it.
Congratulations. You've made it to the middle of
the episode. I'm so proud of you.
You did such an awesome job, buddy.
Oh, man. Oh, man, I'm so proud of you.
Good job. So, we don't have what to
announce this week, but we did want to remind you that infinite
Quest is brought to you in part by our good friends at Z,
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you know that is official, both Eric and myself will be
appearing at DragonCon. So that does mean that we're
going to try and do some kind of meet up, some kind of say hello
situation. We are currently working with
dragging kind. See how we can make that happen,
but yeah so if you're going to be a Dragon Con, we're going to
be at Dragon Con. So I will figure out a time to
swing by and say hello that's it for the middle of the episode.
So uh, yeah, back to the show transition.
It's so interesting that you talked about teaching kids to
advocate for themselves like within within this like
conversation, particularly because I know that like I mean
that's something that I struggle with to this day is asking for
help and asking for accommodations and even knowing
the right questions to ask. And so I know that earlier, you
also talked about the fact that like sometimes schools get like
a little and Advocate. Oh no.
Like, but do you think that this type Those work could do you
think it like helps to advocate for like the inclusion of
neurodiverse kids like just in like the school system and and,
you know, I don't say Society because that's pretentious.
But do you think like having this sort of like, ready
accessibility to things like IEPs like ultimately helps
neurodiverse kids. I think yes.
And no, I'm gonna say yes. Know, every Advocate is not the
same. So if you watch my Tic Tacs or
whatever, you see how much I'm not like that, the worst of the
worst, you know, they they the one story I was telling about a
kid that was gonna cuff, you know.
So now you're a little girl and it's a horrible story but when I
go into, I've been doing this for over 13 years and so I can
read a room like, you know, and it's Okay, these people do not
want to help or these people do not know.
And so I've had to weather the past week or one where they just
had no idea no clue. Why did you do its work?
They just you know kind of pushing with kids long any other
where it was clear that they knew they just didn't care and
so I handle to they them differently and sometimes when
an advocate goes into one of these meetings, how they treat
the room is going to shape, how those teachers move forward with
those kids and almost every IEP meeting I do and I don't always
go into IEP meetings. Like I said I do you know part
of my services to a parent and they know what they're talking
about. They just aren't quite sure and
I'm like, look, you don't need to pay to have me sit in the
meeting. I can you know, you can pay me
services to Q. I'll read through all of your
stuff and tell you what, I think you should say, but save your
money. Or I will say, oh no, honey, you
need me there because you're just not gonna say when I tell
parents. I'm like, you know, When it's
all of us sitting in a room and there's no kid there, I always
tell the parents to bring their kids but if they don't want to
bring the kid but a the focus goes away from the kid and onto
the egos. So it's like, okay, the
principal about, you know, you don't know who you're dealing
with personality wise. And so, if you go into a meeting
and you say, think anybody in here we're all on the same page
that we want to help Kim. I think we're all on the same
page that that meltdown that she had last week where she kicked
you and I'm so sorry Miss Susie and I'm glad I'm happy that the
baby's. Okay.
Okay you know I'm happy that she's like I'm so sorry but we
know that behaviors are I'm not making any excuses, we did she
had and she has ADHD and with that comes, you know, game a
meltdown. And we kind of were looking at
maybe, you know, Deedee diagnosis or something.
Behavior is communication. And she while the while she does
not test poorly in terms of cognitive abilities, her social
emotional and behavior abilities are, they're housed in that will
prefrontal cortex that, you know, for none of us are going
to be fully developed until 25 26, whatever.
And unfortunately the teachers who know the kids have a
developed, prefrontal cortex, the ADHD kid And we know when
there's a good feasible so I hope that you know that that
action by my child kicking you or whatever was not so it was
due to her inability to express herself with her words.
And how can we, as a team work together to figure out the best
way for her to identify her feelings?
To use the words that are kind when she is having a problem to
apologize, if she's having problems.
So we can keep the physical stuff from happening at or for
my kid. She would cuss.
So that was the third grader saying like the f word, I get a
call, her a teacher. I'm just like she go for the
jugular, you know, we we go, we're out of 10.
We go for Whatever It Is. Well, when I attend, I'm I still
don't trust anybody out, but I am.
Now I know how to use my words. Like, okay, how can we not take
this slowly recognize that this child needs help and provide her
with their help? Hmm.
And I think that resets the room when they realized, you know,
this kid needed know his kid needs help where you're in this
position because you want to educate children, this is a
tough nut to crack. She loves you.
Whether she loves a teacher or not, but she loves me, she loves
School. How can we help her better?
Communicate her needs. So, a lot of times will home
everybody down. I'm, I'm really impressed with
how much of what you do seems to be like this room, reader, sort
of social, like, Master thing. It's really it's really
interesting. I wouldn't have expected that.
So let's say there's there. There's a parent listening to
this Right now, they're listening to this interview and
they're thinking my child needs some form of IEP or special
attention in that way. What are the first things that
they do? Like as soon as they stop
listening to this whether they have a child with an Autism
diagnosis or perhaps undiagnosed ADHD whatever they have what is
like the first couple things that they do to move in that
direction? I'm all about them getting help
as soon as possible and while I would say call a doctor, first,
you're going to be on a waiting list, especially with autism.
So and not only, like I said, the doctor is going to provide a
nice. So this but then you take that
to the school and they've got to do their own testing.
So that parent is going to get on though the emailer email to
the. And this is a parent that is
whose kid is at home school private school.
It's goal ideas, a federal law, your taxes pay for it, whether
you are paying for sheshe Foo-Foo private school, your
public school can address some of these issues.
Okay? So you can send an email to
assuming you go to the school. So send an email to the teacher
that your child has the assistant principal and if you
want to, if there's a head of special education you would do
that as well. If you're not at the school and
this is for school aged kids, there's a different process that
your child is younger than that. At, but, um, if you're not at
the school, then you can just go to your District, whatever the
district is for your house, for where you live.
And look up special education coordinator.
I always say, send it to at least two people, hopefully
three because emails, get lost. And you just want to say I think
that I would like to have Kimberly assessed, for special
education because and then you list the symptoms.
You do not say I think she's dead.
Like sick, when you say dyslexic, the school will pick
up their panties and run. I don't know what it is.
What it is. They just say here can assess
for dyslexia, but they just do the we don't do it.
We don't. And so do not use the word
diagnose. You're just going to say assess,
I would like to have Kimberly tested because she seems really
distracted. She may get home.
Like she seemed like she had a great day at school all day.
The minute she gets home. She has a meltdown.
She is Is when we go over homework, she falls all over the
place screaming and crying and she doesn't want to do it.
She is having a very hard time. Telling me what they did in
school that day, these aren't, you know?
Again, you can Google some of these some of ADHD.
We know a lot of them, but a kind of obscure that we don't
necessarily know. It's like, well, I don't know
that was ADHD and even though she's doing that, she's doing
that, she's obviously. And then you want to end the
email with when can we meet to discuss this?
We love, we love that initiative.
We love an initiative statement. A lot of times they will those
okay that's really nice. You know, and they might email
you back. No I want to meet.
If you're going to deny me, I want to see you face to face on
Zoom or in person so we can talk about it.
And then what happens from there, they need to get back to
this a little all requires that the state's get back to the
parent within a reasonable amount of time.
And then the law further says that they do testing within a
certain amount of days. Days.
They provide the IEP within a certain amount of days and I'm
not giving a specific days because the idea says gives you
a guideline of 60 days. So from the, if we all agree in
the meeting, we're going to do an assessment on Kimberly the
day that I signed, that consent form.
As Kimberly's parent, they have 60 days from that day to sit
down with me with the final evaluation, the decision, and
all of that. That's from the federal law, the
state I'm in, is 90 days, so they leave some of that up to
the Date California's 30 days. But so you know if that but the
highest is 90 days the lowest in 30 days and then from that day
and maybe five days for an IEP depending on the state 15 days,
that kind of thing. So, that would be the first
thing. So the parent would send that
email. I would not let that email set
without an answer for more than five days.
I, my My Philosophy is I send the same email, second request.
And then I carbon a few other People that are higher up.
Nice. Nice nice.
It's going to the school board or something.
I don't usually get to number three, but I have parents who
have asked for this in verbally. The oh no.
We think she's fine. Well, it's not being in writing
is the issue. So if it's not in writing, then
they don't have to say, well, we didn't, you know, it was in
within this particular, particular amount of time.
But the other thing that I would want a parent to know That if
Then Fall. So you want that meeting?
Even if they're saying, well, we don't, we're still have the
meeting. I want 24, it is called an IEP
meeting, whether the child is going to get an IEP or not,
okay? So you're going to meet that
initial meeting. They're going to sitting there
going to talk, what happens, a lot of times of the school say
well we have enough data, let's let's look at him, you know, get
in this tutoring program, this intervention program, that's
kind of unofficial for a few weeks and then we'll see.
They can't do that either. Because I was like, my first
wife No video on jukebox. You cannot does the law say
states that you cannot delay or deny assessing a child that
hasn't that possibly has a disability.
You can do to response to intervention at the same time,
but at the same time you need to be extinct.
So what I want the parents to know is when you send in that
meeting, even if they have that, they have enough data and
they're not sure or they're saying what you're saying, you
know, well, the kid doesn't have any cognitive issues or they're
Grades are fine. They still need to deny you with
a process. So that's why I say it wants to
be. You wanted to have a Fishel that
all America. We have due process.
So there at any point that the school says, no, they have to
provide you with something called a prior written.
Notice kind of a misnomer because he's like, prior prior
to what is the prior written? Notice of what comes after every
item come before the IEP meeting comes after the IEP meeting, but
before service. To start or don't start.
So after my daughter's IEP meeting, I will get prior
written notice. And it will say these are, this
is what we talked about. Here's what's going to start
when we start her IEP and it's usually within a day.
So we're going to you going to get this piece of paper that
says, what we discussed at the IEP meeting and it will say the
district proposed or refused. So, for my daughter, we might
have said, well, you know, I really would like for her to
have a chocolate shake every day and because she's great.
You know, what's going on? Have to provide her with a
chocolate shake it, you know? So the district refuse and next
have to provide research based information as to why And so so
many times I will say well, I said no, because teacher
observation says that his behaviors are fun.
Great. However, the law states that we
need more than one evaluation, we need a variety.
We need research-based, I respect you as a teacher and as
a professional that has an education, however, you are one
person. And we consider the school one
entity so it can't be five teachers in the school.
All said that, he doesn't need it needs to be this.
Cool. And then we also need to have
testing done from a psychologist.
So that's what we're going to do testing.
It's super interesting. I didn't know that point but
they ain't no, no, no, we don't think, you know, we don't need
to okay. Well, please put that in the
pwn, which is the prior written notice.
And so, I won't have schools. Look at me like this all the
time. Like I want it because I know
that you have to document. Why?
You're saying no and you have to tell me why you can't just say,
well can you said that? He was really cute.
So how are you? I love how similar so much of
this is to getting an ADHD diagnosis of like having to like
Note refusals and Note like bullshitter e and like I like
and just fascinates me anything to me.
Some states are different. I would have done probably any
one of those scratch. I think that that many things
this year in about 12 States and it's okay, they're like Oprah
with the keys to the car. It's like I'm just like, what is
going to have not had a meeting once where I haven't gotten a
child and IEP but that's because I because you're great at your
job. Say that again I was because
you're awesome at your job, you know, there's I have a I have a
lot of this weekend. I'm just like might even your
top because IEP and she was just like, you know, I've heard it's
better than a 504 and it doesn't I'm just like okay well what do
we need? So it's a pot explained to her
that we could get all of the services that she was asking for
on a 50 for her. Child did not need specially
designed instruction for Todd. Does that what and IEP has a
difference between ADHD and autism?
My boo. My autistic kid is also a HD but
really care about what people think around her.
Yeah, it's Friday even and I know she'll pick her nose and
put, you know, just had to give it just have ADHD May ingest as
ADHD as from an adult who just has ADHD will decay occurs, you
know, there. And they look at special
education. They may have a stigma attached
to it, you know? And they should be the
daughter-in-law to be in special education.
So my but what were you pushing for your kid?
Do one of these? She's 13.
Is one year away from being able to attend the IEP meeting virus,
you know, with her mom legally or whatever.
And she was like, I don't know. Yeah, yeah.
Also it was like that, there's an understanding of what it is
and what we can do with them. And I can make a 504 almost as
good as an IEP. They just are different
structures and they're under different laws bullets, really?
Interesting that you talked about the stigma with an IEP
because so we told our listeners that we were going to do an IEP
episode and we got, you know, like a lot of amazing comments.
If you were like, yes, I want to learn about this, but we also
got what I was really surprised about was like, oh, like a big
number of comments that like, kind of like raised concerns
about IEPs and like, obviously we are not, he's a strategist or
Specialist or Advocates, we're like, well, we happen to have
one on the podcast. So we were wondering, like if we
could maybe like, use this opportunity to kind of like,
like, talk to you about those questions and you could clear up
those like misconceptions and like and that kind of thing if
you're up for it, I'm up for it. Cool.
Okay. So the first one that we heard
was that like a criticism of IP's is that they can put a
label on kids. So like that becomes the focus
or the target of unwanted attention.
Like you are autistic, you have ADHD like whatever And the kid
will be labeled as you know just the autistic kid or just the
ADHD kid or whatever and then even sort of further down that
train of thought. Is this idea that like if your
kid is labeled Autistic or ADHD then it's like they've got a
Target on their back and their you know the like if they're
ever misbehaving they're going to be held to a higher standard
because of these these standards.
So like how do parents work with teachers and work with with
their kid in order to like use the IEP?
Good. But, like not let it be the
thing that like defines their kid.
Well, you know, it's interesting that I'm going to talk first
about autism and because I have a th see, you might have to rein
it back in because I'll go off on a tangent.
We we deal with that with each other all day.
My child is not autism. She has autism.
She may one day be cured from autism, so we don't want to say
she has autism. And I've got my butt handed to
me from an autistic adult. Like what is wrong with saying
that she's autistic? I'm like, well, I'm choosing to
say that she has autism. And really, this is probably
wasn't have like six or seven years where heavy I had to
really focus on what specific adults were saying, which was
Makes fun with me autistic like this is a part of me it's not
separated from me and so but it took me a minute when parents
ask me about that. The first thing I say is I
probably get me some kind of parrot issue with it.
I'm like, okay, do you finish you with that child?
Having the label? Because I know I did because I
you know, I can when I'm speaking to these parents allow
us to get to these teachers. I there's nobody that can tell
me. You haven't been wearing em?
Yes, I have. I taught Yes, II have autistic.
It was about some like I can tell you, you know, I don't have
everything but so I say to them. Okay well what is the issue and
so we kind of talked about it from that standpoint because
being the old lady that I am there.
What, you know, the r word was a, it was on the side of buttons
when I was a kid. You know, these were the kids
that were sent to facility. I had no idea and that was the
word that we used for kids. That had a slower development
that are typically known as kids that have gone.
The syndrome and until it became used as an insult and it was.
So there was a stigma for my generation, some Generation X.
I don't know what that is but it's good for my generation of.
Oh my gosh, special needs a a specialist.
And so I usually will say to the parent, well, the label, there's
a couple things number one. You have annexed, Any teacher
that is has, at least to eat one or two years of experience will
know. The only Act is the autistic
kids, whether they have a diagnosis or not.
Our kids stand out. Okay.
And so when and for the longest time I diagnosed mine, I'm not a
doctor, but I diagnosed my daughter at 10 months, you know,
we had to go to a few different places to make sure that she got
a good diagnosis, but she didn't get a diagnosis until 28 months.
I thought autism at 10 months and I would tell her preschool
teachers, I think she's autistic and I would have these priests
do this to two different preschool teacher said, I'm so
glad you know, these horrible Exemptions, I had to get over
where features were just like we usually on the opposite end, we
know, but the parent doesn't know and so at least, you know,
you know, and so you're telling us all of the things that she
needs help with. Okay.
If you do it this way or work this way, you know, that kind of
thing. And so I will talk to the parent
Alex. I'm like a, what is your
daughter thing? Well, they don't know.
So you don't think that they know, they don't know that all
these other kids are doing something this way.
And they're do, you know that? You don't think that they don't
have an idea or anything. But I just tell them what we do
in our house. I'm like, look, we have three
AAS and our house. We have an option, our youngest
is adopted autism and ADHD and we're not ashamed of them.
And so we lead with them, it is what it is.
But when the child needs services to help them, Why not
give that to the child? And I don't see the in my
experience and, you know, we've got our kind of million reasons
to be marginalized and like fat, you know, lots of other ways
that you can, you do to label me, but might have not
experienced my daughter's, autism being something that is
blamed or something. And it is, I lead with my ADHD
all the time, so I say it is not an excuse, it is the reason it
is. The reason why I completely
forgot this or whatever and I'll add learn how to apologize, you
know, it's another thing also. I am, I was diagnosed pretty
early with ADHD. I was 15.
I had no idea. The actual implications of that.
I thought it was just a school thing.
And like, what if I wasn't in school and I didn't have any HD,
which is obviously not correct, but and I had mild Oh, baby old
problems. I wasn't punching kids or, you
know, lighting stuff on fire. But mild behavior problems.
I was always running around, trying to get people.
That's the gold standard that you come up slightest.
Fuck fire. I don't know.
Is that not an example of a behavioral problem?
1984, bullied a 1980s. Both.
Anyways, the idea I didn't know, it is an ie B @a P at the time.
I don't even know if that's what it was called at the time.
But I know that it was sort of the idea Of me getting some sort
of altered experience at school, whatever that may be whether it
be you no breaks or extended time on tests or whatever.
And I as the student always vociferously said, no, I would
go on rants. I was I never wanted it because
I was terrified that my parents and teachers were going to get
along and that my eye and my teachers wouldn't get along and
I'm forcing him to do more and looking back.
I really wish that I had just thought, you know what, that's
their job is to teach students and I wished I had gone for it.
So I just was wondering in case. There are any students now,
listening, who are now starting to hear this sort of thing, come
up in their lives, how would you address those concerns about
driving a wedge between the student and teacher or the
parents and the teacher? And, and what would you say to
those? Those students themselves?
Well, first off idea and I will for have both been around since
the 70s. So yes, it was a weird question
answer there. So we built a nation active of
1974 is where the 504 came from, and then idea was called
something else, but it started in 1975.
So therefore, they were around. Yeah, I thank you for saying
that. I say to parents is, I don't
care if your kid is nonverbal, needs a feeding tube.
You've is not doesn't seem like she's understanding where the
math that meeting because I want them to.
First of all I want to see how the this is a two-fold.
I want to see how the teachers are behaving around my kids but
I also want my child to learn what types of things that they
need so that they can begin to advocate for themselves and if
not If you feel like part of it, the reduction sensitive
dysphoria and different parts about ADHD, you don't want to be
a burden. Once you realize, oh gosh, you
know, this teacher might have to do a little extra for me.
You there is a little bit of guilt that comes with that.
However there's also the understanding of what ADHD is
can really Empower a kid. So, when you explain to a child
but and you explained it to them not in a negative way, like, you
got ADHD, you know, that this is look.
So I for my eight-year-old, I am always saying to her that's part
of your ADHD. Oh Molly.
I can't. You know, I just don't want to
do. It's almost like, okay, well,
let's do now. That's just part of your ADHD.
Well, I don't want to have ADHD. Well, neither do I guess, what?
And I bet you your father doesn't Want to, you know, be
going old, you know, earlier where it'll be a lot of things
that we don't want. So it's kind of humanizing this
and it's not, you know, we grew up in a generation where I don't
want to eat my spinach and watch Popeye of my God.
How old am I Lord anyway? And that was supposed to help
kids feel like he's dumb. Raised with, there's Starving
Children in Ethiopia, you know? And I'm like, well, I'll be
happy to nail them. I play, you know, the as we get
smarter, so kids get smarter and more able to kind of, explain
away things as they get older. And so, I think the best way is
to be just as honest as you possibly can.
You have this thing called ADHD? Let's figure out what it is and
how it works for you and the more they learn about.
Look, this is not there this Is not the end of the world.
This is not the worst thing to happen.
You got it for me. Yep.
James meet, you know, like you got it for me or you gotta from
Daddy, or whatever. And this is how you learn, you
learn best with this or you learn best when you are, you get
to watch a video first or for me?
I didn't know I had, you know, again I even though I grew up in
the, which I started kindergarten 1974.
So this idea came about a year ago.
It yet then is happening this weekend.
But anyway, there's hope for the longest time, you know, like, I
didn't know it, I didn't know, it didn't know my parents, and
my mother was a teacher. So I make her feel guilty all
the time and I'm like, no Mom. But in college Those might sit
there and listen to these lectures and walk out
electrolyte. I'm not able to do sit
and you know, how old am I really a j or whatever?
They're on good time, like with a belt and all that, you know,
little like, you know, am I don't get out of college, you
know, in four years because that was my dad using for years or
you're paying for it yourself, you know, and if I'm not able to
understand what this guy is saying in class, and so, what I
start, I started to figure it out on my own and I use some of
the same techniques techniques with my kids but it was, I would
read I get. Okay, they're going over the
economic. Whatever took don't have spots.
Get economics. But I read the chapter on
Saturday and I took notes on Saturday night.
So then we went over the it through the week.
I'm looking out the window. I'm coming back, like some
others. I know I got to know, I didn't
have to pay full attention and so those are things that I do
with my kids. Now just like okay, look, I'll
part of your autism from a legitimate daughter.
Her reading comprehension socks. These reading on, he was
reaching for something called hyperlexia which they did.
She was reading. Fluently, like she can sit there
and read them in the plane, in Spain, whatever at age 4 and
because she's tiny would be in the grocery store and she'd be
like reading the, the magazine the year that changed the world
activist journalist and ours. You know, I never liked his
two-year-old kid. You know, she look like she was
stupid. But, um, but she did not ever
pick up that comprehension until later.
So she's the reading is divided into decoding words and then
comprehending what you've read or comprehension is great.
Level. But for the longest time it was
really something for you. It is and have to ask you what
happened and you're telling me you don't know.
So now we figure it out for her. She's got to get the book on
Audible. So she's got the book she's
following along, and she's got to listen to it at the same
time. The your old is here, laughs.
All she wants to do is play, but she needs what they call I call
pre-loading. So she needs pre-loading.
And so there's for her. And I think what happens when
you're a kid and you're just like, I don't want to do this
and I don't, you know, I, I how do I advocate first myself or
how do I make the most out of this ADHD is by understanding
what it is recognizing that it's not.
There's nothing that you did or anybody else did to get it?
And then what are the best ways that you can do to overcome it?
And as a parent, a, my eight-year-old doesn't want to
do it. It's the success.
You get the afterwards helps her to go back to.
Okay, fine. I'll read the Chinese people,
15-20 minutes because they want to get on the
moon first is that, you know, just like that, we're all trying
to make it fun. And it really helps them to
recognize. Okay.
You need this in a different way than maybe everybody else.
Am I on the same topic that we're supposed to do?
It's an idiot a podcast. It's it's it's your fine.
We just, we just let it happen. Just as we wrap up.
Do you have any websites Resources?
Phone numbers to call for for parents who are listening to
this or of age students who are listening to this?
They can go find more information and and that kind of
stuff or even if they can set up her consultations with you.
This way, do like a 15-minute free console where I just shut
up, which is really hard, and listen, and I'll say, oh, you
know, we're really having a hard time.
And then I say, okay, this is what I think I can do.
When I do a workshop, or, you know, do something for someone
else, I will set up a code where those people that are there can
log on and get Any minute free consultations.
I'm happy to provide that. I don't know if I would just
email it to you. I've created this because a PhD,
I don't have a creative beforehand, but I figure I'll
email it to you afterwards, and so they would just, you would
just give them that link. Cool.
What we'll do for the folks listening at home is, we will
set up an extra page for kazuto and Associates and that will
have all of Kim's. Links will have everything ever
all the places that you can find her.
So, you can set that up for our listeners.
They'll be able to find you that way.
And then if you have a, you know, I did write a book.
The book is called, I used to hate IEP meetings.
It's on Amazon, Jim kizzy, do and kiz it0 and then I'm the IEP
strategist on Tick Tock and Instagram.
I'm not on Twitter, I probably am on Twitter because I created
a Twitter account. This is too much TV.
I tried to do Twitter, it's just too hard.
It's just there's something about Twitter that just makes my
brain. There's a grammar thing with.
There's this perfectionist thing we're just like I don't want to
write you are I want to wipe, right?
Why do you apostrophe re rate hike?
It hits my ears weird. It's like you're you know, it's
like someone's Whispering it right in my ear hands to the
Twitter people out there, another six different states,
and the reason I can handle all 50 states.
There's another, there's no licensing to become an advocate.
I, the idea is a federal law. Law and what I do when I get
someone from a different state as I just pull up their state
information to figure out what's different and it's typically not
that different there. I'm the maybe 45 days instead of
60 days or that kind of thing and so I can usually provide
coaching or be right there at the IEP meeting with them.
That's awesome. Fantastic.
We have one question that we forgot to ask you earlier.
This is a question that we ask everybody who comes on podcast,
it's very serious question. Very important.
Take your answer. Very seriously.
Eric if you would, please, thank you very much II.
We insisted. We do, we started doing this in
the very beginning. I'm so happy.
We did duping well, Kimberly, if you could magically snap your
fingers and become fluent in every language ever, Getting or
masterful at every instrument ever invented.
Which would you choose language? No hesitation really, why is not
a single that I had? We love we love a confident
answer. They took 10 years 13.
So many years of French and never got to use it.
My daughter is part for the weekend.
So I'm been trying to learn Spanish and it sucks when you're
my age but I think that Learning languages gets you everywhere
you want to go and I love to be I'm just a I'm the meet the
person in the shopping line, make a friend type of person.
And so someone speaking Arabic and I'm like, you know, and I
can speak that and I can just broaden my network of friends.
I think that would be awesome. Hmm.
What if I love music? But no, well, Kimberly Kesey do.
Thank you so much for being with us today.
It was just a lovely time. It's always nice when we have a
guest on and they too have ADHD just like a big ol ADHD party.
Appreciate it. Thanks Katie and I just kind of
like fell backwards into each other.
I'm just like this chick really like want to be bothered with
me. We absolutely are honored to be
bothered by you. Thank you very much.
I have D chopped myself I'm just regular liver now, her liver
with onions and Like a nice pad tag.
All right. Well thanks again.
Can relate and I will talk to you later.
Have a great rest of your day. Thank you.
Well, everybody that's it for us this week at infinite Quest.
Once again, we'd like to extend a huge.
Thank you to the IEP strategist Kim because he do for sharing
her wisdom and her expertise with us here at infinite Quest.
And as always, we'd like to remind you that, if you're
interested in supporting invented Quest, you can do that
by visiting patreon.com slash infinite Quest.
And as promised, if you subscribe to infinite quest in
May or June this year, You get your name in a song so um,
here's this week's song. My chair so squeaky.
Thank you to Shannon and Theresa and also Jonathan next.
Thank you too Louise who paid in British pounds and due to thee
exchange rate, we get an Extra 62 cents a month.
God Save the Queen next. Thank you too Frankie.
And to David you guys are great. Thanks to all of you.
We get to do this every week. We're so grateful.
And I wish I knew more than three chords because maybe with
four or five, I could find a way to say thank you for all of
this, but this is what I got. So, from the bottom of our
hearts, thank you so much for supporting us.
And as always from your friends at infinite Quest, take your
meds and drink, some fucking water will see you next week.
Be kind to yourself and to others.
And, for me, and Eric, and our DDM.
Chris, and Our invisible producer, Brian!
We love you.