Hi everybody. It's me, Katie Source.
Hello. Hi, and it's me.
Who died. Welcome back to infinite Quest.
What can you do that again but just we both say if it was the
same time. Yeah.
Okay ready. Hi everybody.
It's me. Katie asaurus Haynes be a good,
welcome back to infinite quests. So refill most this we gonna fit
a quest. We're going to be talking about
medication, but before we start, we just wanted to let you know
that. Hey, we have a patreon.
It's patreon.com infinite Quest and becoming a patreon means
supporting our mission of education and advocacy.
And if you like what we do, if we've helped you out a little B,
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I'm going to say that, as high as I possibly can top a little
bit of that cheddar cheese is the most radio disc jockey if
it's pretty cool. Okay, so watch what about you
transition? All right.
You know what? It's funny because we decided to
record it all at one time. So, there's no break relate.
Also that sorry. Sorry.
We're solely. It's a long story, but it's also
relevant to the topic of this week's episode is Kate
mentioned. We're going to be talking with
medication, but real quick. Huge disclaimer, neither Katie,
nor I, our doctors do not change your meds.
Don't start taking meds. Or stop taking meds, without
talking to your doctor. Always, always, always go
through your doctor. Do not take anything that Katie
and Ice are about to say as like, oh, I'm going to totally
change my entire thing with my meds because meds or a big deal
and you should talk to him. Qualified professional before.
Making alterations to your medication.
Yeah, we're not here to give you advice about your medication.
What we are here? What we are trying to do with
this episode, is talk about our experience with medication and
our relationship to our medication because we think
that's an important conversation, but we are not
doctors. We don't know how I mean.
Eric knows how much work. But like we, we're not here to
tell you to change your medication, so don't do that.
Anyways anyways. Well Kate so why is it that we
didn't record the episode yesterday?
And well because I spent two hours crying on my kitchen
floor, because there was a little pile of crump's and then
slightly to the left of it. There's another pile of crumbs
and I was sad that the power of crumbs were not together.
It was, it was, I mean, as much as well.
I was saying this yesterday, like I said, this in the worst
possible way but like, I, Seeing you cry.
Looks like this. Like obviously I don't like when
you're crying, but if you're crying that means you need to be
crying. You know, I'd rather you be
needing to cry and cry. The next when I see you crying,
it's like I'm glad that you're releasing, you know, whatever
you need to be releasing. I'm not glad that you're crying
but I'm like cool. I'm glad you feel.
Yeah. I suppose a better way of saying
that sentence would be. I started antidepressants.
That's that's what I was supposed to say about was making
A joke because it was so ridiculous.
I had a full-on fucking meltdown about a pile of dirt on my floor
and it was very silly. Well, I think you're you're
doing. So I take another person's as
well. Like I have a very long and
storied relationship with what you're going to tell her a time
I suppose. Yeah.
With taking medications for mental health, things and
figuring out what to take and how to take them and, you know,
strategies to make them work, the best for me and all that
stuff in, from my perspective, you're doing great.
I mean, your being It's about how you're feeling.
You're dating communicating baby day for baby but I'm really
proud of you for that. It's not easy thing to do.
It's been weird. I think one of the hardest
things about when you're taking a new medication is remembering
that you're taking a new medication.
Yeah. So like if your mood is going up
and then down and then left and then right?
And I'm the big curly q thing. Like when I take when I started
taking like my ADHD medication, it was really hard for me to
remember first of us 15 but was really hard for me to remember
that. Like oh, That's right.
Like I'm going through this whole new thing of discovering.
How this medication is going to work for me or if it's going to
work for me. And so it's really hard for
like, you know, later in the day when I was coming off a
medication or coming down for my medication and I would get like,
really depressed or something like that.
It was really hard for me to remember like, oh that's right.
All these dark thoughts that I'm having are all these whatever
isn't like, I'm taking a new medication.
This is New Territory, this isn't just me you know freaking
out. And all of a sudden that When
who I am? I mean, my feelings are valid.
All feelings are valid, but I think it's really important to
remember like, oh, this is like a test phase.
Like this is New Territory and I think you're doing it really
well and little Gratis well. Okay, so here's my question.
So I have been on medication for significantly less time than you
respectively, three years and four days for ADHD and
depression, where as you sort of taking meds when you were 15,
15, okay? So, what is your relationship to
medication, like, Like God, what is the what is the role it's
played like in your life. Um it's kind of a complicated
relationship like it's a really a storied and complicated
relationship. There have been times when I'm
like holy shit, I can't believe I ever existed without taking
this medication and there are some times when I thought like
this is the worst thing I've ever done when he's charging to
how dare I you know start taking these medications to better my
life but When I first started one of the hardest parts about
taking a medication for mental health thing and I get this
question. A lot is, how do you know what
it's supposed to be doing. Yeah that's because I up until I
forgot medicated I had always had unmedicated ADHD so I had no
connection to what having a brain that is capable of folks.
Like I didn't know what that feels like and so when I first
started taking them Um, I started no lower dose and then
you started ramping it up and there was a period of time.
When I now know, looking back. I was definitely taking way too
much for me of the medication that I was taking but I didn't
know that I just figured oh, you know, this is what it's like to
have. You know, my ADHD be treated but
looking back. I now know holy shit like I was
like my whole day was just contextualized by this
medication, doing what it wants with some with my body and I it
wasn't like a Controlled. I mean it was controlled in that
you know it was very well planned by my doctor but like
you know the analogy of medication being like a power
tool. Like I it was basically like I
was just like dual-wielding like takes you like do I like
chainsaws like shooting fire and like and you don't like my
grades were got much better because you know I was still you
know, it wasn't so much. Like, I couldn't get things
done, you know, but trying to figure out what you're going for
when you're starting a new medication is one of the hardest
parts. And for me, it took cheese.
I mean easily three years. I want to say maybe four to get
to the point where I like my vacation where like I feel my
goal is in terms of taking a mental mental to it.
It's really cold here. I just change my clothes and
then I just choked on my own spit.
When I sat back down, I was so proud of myself for being
sneaky. You did so, well, I had to have
it really proud of myself. Oh, yeah, but it took me like
easily, like 3 or 4 years. To get to where I wanted to be
with medication, or what, my what I now know, to be like a
good place for me. Mmm, is basically I take them
and I just like, don't even notice them.
Except for the fact that quails my ADHD. / depression symptoms,
like my antidepressants when I take them.
The only thing that I notice in terms of side effects is well,
the only thing I notice in terms of the effects of the medication
is, wow, I haven't been blackening lie in crippling the
depressed 14. Times a day in the last couple
weeks. Yeah.
And that's a good place. And so, similar with the ADHD
meds, when I first started, the side effects were like the main
thing, like, sure. I could focus, but I never ate.
I slept super weirdly. My moods were all over the
place. I hated, like talking to my
friends. I just found them like annoying
and boring. Whereas, now when I take them,
it's just like, oh, I can get my work done.
Now that's cool. And it took me a long time to
get there, and it takes a lot of trust in other people.
Well, a lot of honesty with yourself and other people just
to sort of try to track what you're doing.
It's not, It Ain't Easy Being Cheesy.
But for me, I think it was very much work it worth.
It took a long time to get to a place where I think I have a
healthy relationship with my meds, but it took a while, but
I'm glad I did it. Have you ever gone off your
meds? Yeah.
Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean the American Health Care
system is such Ahead. I mean I haven't in terms of
taking my meds, I haven't had like the same psychiatrist in
the same pharmacy from for like more than a year at a time like
is a cut at once or twice a year.
My psychiatrist will get a private practice.
So I had to find a new psychiatrist that takes my
insurance or my insurance will be different for some reason and
it now no longer covers the this form of the medication.
So I have to go across the city to get to this day out.
It's a whole fuckery thing. So anyways, yeah.
Is there a lot of times when I've gone off my medication and
it's a good reminder of like, oh, that's right.
That's why I did all that work. Yeah.
So to find medication. That works for me, particularly
my antidepressants. Like, if I go off my ADHD meds,
it's not great. But, you know, I'm physically
safe. You know?
Yeah. But if I go off my depression
meds, that's a really big deal like that, that doesn't fly.
I mean, you see, if my I flew to California, Because you were
awesome. I'm so worried about you.
So one of us wide, that's true. Well, how do you how are you?
So you're on day 4 of a new medication and that's, that's a
weird place to be. It's really weird.
I don't like it. Like I feel bad saying that,
because I feel like anybody listening is going to be like
actively discouraged. And I want to be very clear,
like this is one of the healthiest decisions that I've
made for myself in a very long time.
And it's something that I've been considering for a long time
and quite frankly, something that my psychiatrist or mice
Psychologist I guess had been like just like hey so
depression, meds depression meds.
But I had a really, really bad experience when I was in college
a terrible experience and like I like sorry I still.
So I was like really hesitant to start but like it's you know all
the research is like I did a bunch of research adjective
bunch of reading and stuff and like I was like okay like for
like I'm really worried about tomorrow.
I'm really nervous for tomorrow because apparently the
particular Occasion that I'm on. Has like a, like a three to
four-day like honeymoon, period. We're like, okay, like you're
adjusting like whatever and supposedly like day five or six
is like there's like a crash and I'm really nervous for that but
like it's been really interesting for a couple of
different reasons like one because like I'm actually
feeling things which to me is bad which I know is like funny
to say but like I've Either like I'm like fucking flying right
now. Like yes, let's make a podcast
but I also know that and there's something that my doctor talk to
me about. She was like, okay, so here's
the thing, like, you're going to get the meds and you're going to
like really quickly cycle, like, you're going to cycle through,
like, ups and downs and ups and downs.
Just like your, your Chemistry, basically evens out, but it's
like two weeks and so like, I don't know, it's just been
really weird because like I'm going through like a lot of
stuff like all the same time like I'm going through this like
period of like adjusting to like okay I have to remember to take
this med like at the same time every day which I fucked up.
I want to be very clear for days in a row.
I'm feeling things which is sort of new and interesting.
I'm also like feeling things in a way.
We're like the lows are very low and the high is are really.
Are you doing calling my hair? Did?
I saw comb? It's at it's called utilization
bit is over but it's but it's also like.
But what's really interesting is like I'm it feels like it sounds
like I'm complaining and what I'm actually doing is I'm saying
like this is fucking awesome. You know what I mean?
Like I don't word it's hard. And that's the thing is like I
feel like I'm so hesitant to Talk about stuff because I don't
want somebody listening to go like, oh well I'm not going to
take I'm not going to seek out and it presents because you
know, Kate said that it's hard but like, I feel like that's the
point a little like it not the point but like it like it would
be great if it wasn't hard but it is.
And I think like that's like part of the process and like you
know what I mean? Yeah.
I think another weird thing about it is it's not hard in
like, you know, running a marathon Is harsher here.
Sophie now I'm trying to dampen the sound in the room.
I'm adding to the the floof in the rooms really good.
Could you hear that? Go, go down another, where's
Sophie great? But it's not like running a
marathon hard like running. A marathon is super hard, but
it's simple. It's like you have to run 24
miles. Like that's what it is.
But taking a mental health medication, it's weird.
It's because you're basically thinking like a computer that
has malware on it. Yeah.
Trying to diagnose the malware but the, it's the Some itself.
Like it's a broken thing. Trying to think not to say that
your brain is real good. But like no, no, you mean, your
truck, your truck. The thing that is changing is
trying to figure out what the changing about it.
Yeah. In real time and it's fucking
weird and that's why it's really important to have other people
around you, remind you that you're taking a new medication,
remind you of how you felt yesterday or the day before.
That was one thing that was really helpful to me, is when I
start, taking a new medication, I write door either write down
or just take a very fucking strong.
Mental note of what my doctor says is going to happen because
your doctor will say, like, oh, you're in a cycle through a
bunch of different emotions. The first couple days, but when
you're actually cycling through those, those, those emotions,
like your brain is the thing that's having the emotion.
Yes. And so it's hard to for your
brain to rein in any way objective.
I was the wind chimes. I thought it was the doorbell.
I thought it was like a, like a tornado sirens like you to rebut
some podcast. Tornado right now, sweet, as the
wind chimes, know, when I picked up my prescription at the
pharmacy, the pharmacist laughed and was like good luck.
That really goes a goddamn, could you be a little bit more
ominous? Please like Cheese's?
I was like, I was like, all right, but like, yeah, I don't
know. It's weird.
And and I think part of it, too is because like, even like my
relationship to my ADHD, meds is so Resting because I started off
taking my ADHD meds, like, every single day like I was like, you
know, my doctor's. Like, all right, take them every
single day. Here we go.
Then we realized that like that wasn't working in the
conventional way because my schedule is so hard as an actor
because like my schedule wasn't 925, my schedule was 9 to 10 or
11 or 12 or 1 or 2 or 3. So we had to like figure out a
different system and that basically just meant taking meds
twice a day for my ADHD, but then it was like, well, okay,
that's so much ADHD medication so can you take days off?
So then I was like taking weekends off for a while.
Then I then it was like, okay well I don't like I hesitate to
say this because again, I am not a doctor.
Talk to your doctor in conversation with changing your
meds. But what I realized was that I
was actually more comfortable not taking meds every single day
and so like in conversation with my doctor, we figured out a
system that works for me, which is that I most of the time, take
like an extended-release rather than like the regular kind
because then it means that like I've got like I have assistant
throughout the day but it's less of like an immediate thing which
is which is sort of like what we settled on but it took two or
three. oh, three tries, you know, to get there but in
conversation with that like, that was, that was that was like
a lot to like handle all at one time because it was just
consistently like a week of like, okay, this is working her
a month of like, okay, this is not working or whatever, so it's
just been, it's been really weird all of a sudden now having
to start that process completely over but with something that's
so much profoundly more about like how I feel You know what I
mean? Because like with like with like
ADHD meds, it's like, okay I'm getting stuff done and then I'm
crashing or I'm not crashing and my sleep schedule is all fucked
up because like I'm just on like stimulant medication.
Whereas like with depression medication it is absolutely
predicated on like being depressed and so it's been
really weird. Yeah it's much less like that is
any sense at all? Yeah.
Like I just like yammered know not every it's much less
measurable. Yeah.
HD. Like, you can look at my grades.
Yeah. And they change my started
getting Medicaid. Yeah.
Both depression. Like you can measure depression,
you know, you can write down how you feel, score your days on one
to ten and all that, but it's less measurable in that.
Like it's not like lists of things that you get done.
It's just like how do you feel which is entirely subjective?
Like for example, what I before I got medicated for depression,
a good day was a day where I didn't actively want to.
Kill myself. That's like a good day and then
when I started taking my antidepressants my understanding
of what a good day was changed. Yeah.
So so the scale was changing and then when I get up and go off of
it, my medication if my, if my, you know, Insurance flux off, or
if my psychiatrist fucks off, then might that might do the
scale with which or by which I measure my mood then changes.
So will go off my medication and Stark difference and is
immediately. Wow, I'm really depressed now
but then I get like used to that and then I'll start getting back
into that mode. We're like oh a day where I
don't actually want to kill myself is a good day and then
I'll be like, oh why was I even taking depression meds, I feel
fine. And I have to remind myself.
No, you do not. This is not what fine looks like
dude do you there's a better world out there and that was
another thing with medic with within a person's is like I
remember I asked my I was referred from depressions by my
therapist. At the time, I remember asking
them and the psychiatrist, how much of this medication working
depends on my belief that it's going to, you know, if I take
his meds really interesting. Yeah, and I was really scared
that. Like what if my cynicism which
has been like, you know, my Nemesis in life is yeah.
Cynicism like what if my cynicism is so strong that even
if this medication is doing what it's supposed to like I deny it
and I'm like, no this is just You know, because depression is
sneaky motherfucker, you know you can feel good but like
that's bad too because you're like, oh I feel good but soon
I'm not. Oh God.
Yeah, like I don't trust Joy. Um but that fuck.
Where was I was I saying cynicism cynicism station?
Oh yeah. And so like with depression
meds, which is in my case remembering that like there's
more out there, you know, like You don't have to just like
think of as a good day. As not wanting to kill yourself
all day. Like it's possible to have like
a good day. That's better than zero like a
good day. That's actively really good.
Not just not bad. Yeah.
And maintaining that belief remembering that that's out
there. Helped me a lot when I was first
taking anti-depressant medication.
Like remembering that like oh I'm not just trying to be okay.
I'm trying to be good you know and depression meds just
shouldn't be listening to us. I've heard this a couple times
in my life and it's really, it really It's one of those things
that somebody kind of says to be like sort of dismissive and
funny but really just makes them look really dumb but when we
will called depression medication happy pills it's like
that is not gonna work, you don't take them and then you're
happy, that's not what happens like it for me.
The way that I describe it is like if I'm off my medication
for depression, I know there's an ADHD podcast but it's all
related, it felt sort of like like a platform jump.
Pin game. We're like, I was constantly had
to spend like 40% of my energy jumping from like, okay?
Oh gosh and all around me, are there these like deep holes that
I'm liable to fall into at any moment?
And suddenly, my day is just, dude, I'm like depressed for the
next fucking four years or whatever, the depression meds
just make those holes, much smaller, you know.
So like now I don't have to spend so much energy, just
trying to be okay all the time and I can focus on spending.
That energy doing things that I like, and like doing things that
make my life good. Not just like passable.
Yeah. And I think that's really
important to bring up. It depression meds aren't just
like, at least for me I got it. I want to you know medications
are very complicated, human bodies are very complicated but
generally speaking. I was worried that I was gonna
like lose part of myself when I started taking antidepressants.
Yeah, and I really didn't, I just wasn't.
So I didn't have to spend so much energy all the time just
being Breathing person. What am I questions?
And this is something that I've been thinking about a lot is
like, so Monday for and like I said earlier, like I have
religiously fucked it up four times in a row and and so what
I'm realizing is like one of the biggest struggles for me with
ADHD is like getting into a new system, like having a new system
and, and like habits and stuff are really hard for me to
develop with ADHD. But like one of the things I
think is like even more daunting is like, they're like, ADHD is
absolutely. Well, at least my ADHD, like
really relies a lot of times and like, instant gratification,
like, I'll get something done or I'll do something because like,
I know I'm going to get that like immediate dopamine, hit up,
like all I sent the email or finish the task or whatever.
But like when I started, you know, when I had the
conversation with my doctor she was like I need you to
understand that like you have to Check with this, for at least a
couple of months like this is not like a, you start taking
them in a week or fine. Like this is a, your body needs
at least two to four weeks to, like, even out get your levels
like to where they will be on this medication.
And then after that, like, if it's working or not working, we
can like adjust the dosage. But it's like you have to stick
it out and that's so daunting to me.
Yeah. Like that's the part that I'm
the most freaked out. Out about because it's like, you
know, it's like I know that right now I'm in that like,
really early, like my shit is just evening out, whatever.
But it's like they're there is no instant gratification with
antidepressants the way that I think there is for ADHD man's.
Because like, I remember the first time that I took my ADHD
medication and it was like 20 minutes later my life changed.
Yeah. Oh yeah, you know, it was like
oh this Lee works I instantly under like I was like this is
what it's like to function and I can fight God like so.
So that is something that I'm really struggling with, right?
Yeah, yeah. Absolute like, with with ADHD
medication, when I first heard Jake, mmmm, I think you sort of
just touched on this experience. But you're, you're observing the
process of a day? Yeah, every day is a new data
point. Yeah, you know.
So it started taking effect at this point.
But then it didn't wear off until too late.
So I didn't get to sleep until what it really like you know,
every little every day is a new little thing that you get to
watch happen. Which is absolutely not the case
with depression medication, which is why I think it's really
important to have people around. Yeah, thanks carrying and
getting those folks. This is my pleasure.
I'm so sorry that I just keep crying on you.
Hey, no, dude. All right on you so much.
Soak a little wet spot on your shoulder for actually do.
I can feel it actually do. But I think is especially if you
have depression and ADHD like oh my gosh I'm not just going to
take this and then feel but like that is a terrifying experience
awful and having other people around to you know, to tell
things to who can remember the things is really helpful because
like you might not notice not, you specifically kidding you but
one might not notice that, you know, you have way more energy
now than you did this, you know, past week or something like that
because you're the person who's changing Aging and so having
people outside, including your doctor too much to watch you and
monitor you is, I think vitally important when it when it comes
to specifically especially when it comes to medication that are
going to take a long time to take effect.
You want to know what the weirdest part is?
What's that is that I feel, okay?
Like that's the weirdest part is is like and it's like and it's
very much like cops and downs like it's not like it's by no
means even out at this point. But like yesterday we went to
Ikea, there was this there there's that moment where you're
like riding on the cart and I we were just being like Jack.
Yeah Kia and I like I had this like very real profound moment
of like I'm gonna cry because like I said it's a cycle but I
had this like very Real profound moment of like I'm so happy.
Like I'm so happy to be here. I'm so like and I was like
laughing and it was like I haven't laughed like that in
years like in years and like that was part of.
It was like I keep having these moments of like I'm so happy and
I know that it's like The the, you know, the peak before the
valley of like and then I'm going to cry about how happy I
am or whatever and have a breakdown on a, as is couch
because they're out of sofa legs.
But like, you know what I mean, like that has been that has
honestly, it's been eye-opening. Like it's, it hasn't been that
long but just that like holy shit like I forgot that like I
can be happy and that's almost like It's like Bittersweet, you
know what I mean? Like it's just been it's just
been really interesting. Yeah, I might sort of my mom has
depressions where I get it from and she Has talked to me about.
She didn't realize how much of an absent mother she was before
she got Medicaid. I didn't notice how I just
remember. No, my mom as being a loving.
Wonderful person, your mom's the best.
She's pretty great, but she said like, as she was feeling better
from her / from starting her medication, she realized, like,
holy shit. I've been so fucking sad for so
many years like she missed out. Ah, no, she feels that I don't
want to say you know, say that these things are objectively
true. But she feels that she missed
out on certain like years of mine.
My brother's life because she was just fucking depressed.
So depressed, she couldn't get out of bed and that is really
Bittersweet. And I think that was sort of
part of my fear when I first started taking depression meds
was so my mom is depression, my dad is ADHD, they were
interviewed on our podcast last Go check it out.
It's one of my favorite episodes of ever.let's great, your
parents are so cool. I hope they start their own
podcast. I hope you to hug on the road
with Dorsey and Carl. Yeah.
But my dad, the analogy, they sometimes use is like my dad was
sort of like my mom's cheerleader.
You know when her depression become rear its head, my dad
would be like let's go to Prague look Susan hey you ever go to a
minor league baseball game before, they're called the lug
nuts and that's true. Two-story Lansing Lugnuts, go
lug nuts. I fucking love of minor league.
Baseball game, that's a true story.
Sweetest baseball game is secondary to all the weird
activities. There's like hot dog races and
shit. So much fun.
I love it. But my parents relationship is
very strong which I'm very grateful for it.
I'm lucky to have been born to them.
My their relationship is very strong but the one time when
they really had to like restructure their relationship
and figure, Stuff that serious stuff out was when my mom
started taking antidepressants because now that function that
my dad served to being a cheerleader was was less
necessary, which was great. But it required, something is
required re-evaluating, you know, their roles in each
other's lives, which they did because they're wonderful
people. But that was terrifying.
Like, I've always known my parents marriage as being very
strong, very complicated and it like it was worked for to be as
strong as it is. But knowing that these
antidepressants Shook, my parents relationship was like,
fuck. That's right.
Oh well boobs. I mean, all for the better, you
know, everything takes work. Growth takes work, I do when I'm
scared, I didn't even think about that.
But you're right like, oh man, fuck fuck.
Hey, bubs. It's gonna be okay by now.
The okay, we should do a commercial break or something.
Yeah. Hey, everybody.
Did you know that Katie? And I both have twitch channels,
twitch.tv slash kto Source but the 0 is 0.
Its some mother Fucker, sleep, Katie Source.
If you're out there, I'm Coming For You.
Stating I said, I think it's me and I'm twitch.tv slash.
Hey, goood, we stream every weekday.
Katie at 11:30 Eastern and me at 12:30 Eastern.
I'm like, I'm like the chaos after show.
That's a really great time. We hang out, we talk about your
eye open for. You depends on how you look.
I can see how it's done. I like to consider.
I'm I'm your opener. Yeah, no.
Yeah, come on by. I'm also going to start
streaming more Minecraft lately. So Eric, so good at Minecraft
you guys. Oh shucks, I love watching.
Eric play Minecraft, I'm getting there.
Thank you very much, but come on by, it's a really great time.
Also, we have a patreon patreon.com infinite Quest if
you want to come help support us and make it so that we can pay
for things like salmon panels and and microphone for we do.
Stable is so squishy. It is a very squishy table.
A very squishy table, very squishy.
Tables are all also. Did you know K that we're going
on tour? What?
Yeah. I mean we're going to the Quad
Cities in a week. Oh my gosh.
We are two weeks a week or so my ADHD is is in such denial about
that. Like it's I'm not going to
actually feel like that's happening until we know, we're
gonna be like on the plane and I'm gonna be like I'll fuck
shit. We're gonna to do we have to do
this, it's gonna be great. I want to see when and where
we're going to be head on over to infinite Quest podcast.com
and click on toward egg that we're doing the commercial
break. I know it feels weird that we're
in the middle. These afterwards but he's going
to do it all at once. It's fine we'll do it live.
Okay well okay so it's about I don't know actually it could be
15 minutes it could be 45 on how long you think we've been
recording for. 40 minutes. Oh, very close 33.
Okay, that's pretty close. Um, so I think it would be cool
if we talked about medication strategies because again, we are
not doctors, we're not doctors, we don't know things.
Do not change your medication without talking people, um, but
like I don't, I feel like that we should just swap the Habs
around because, like one of the things that I want to talk about
is just like like the approach to medication.
Because somebody commented some you know when somebody comments
sometimes like on one of your videos and it just like sticks
with you and you just like, think about it.
Oh yeah, somebody caught the sea.
So I did this video about medication is a tool is a tool
that is right for somebody. Some people and it is not right
for other people in there. Different, kinds of medications
in there are different ways of using medication and like it can
be in conversation with therapy or support groups or like
there's so many different ways to use medication as a tool, but
It is just that it is a tool. It is a morally neutral tool is
not admitting failure. It is not admitting weakness.
It is just a tool that some people need in order to like
live there most effective life and somebody commented on that
video and it was like one comment out of like quite a few
comments. The video was a hit but the
comment was I don't. Want like so I made the metaphor
that I was using was like, it is a literal to I was talking about
like, a reciprocating saw and I said, you know, like it's right
for some jobs, not right, for others.
And this person commented and they said, well, I don't want to
have to use a reciprocating saw to get things done for the rest
of my life. So, I want to build up my
muscles so I can do it myself and I cannot stop thinking about
that comment. Like that comment just stuck
with me. This idea that like I don't want
to take medication for the rest of my life.
So I'm going to choose to not take medication even though can
improve my quality of life because I don't want to have to
have that like commitment and I don't I don't I don't know what
what I think about that. Yeah.
It's strange because I also know that was the worst explanation
I've ever given. No it was not, it hurts my ear
hurts. Like behind my ear and it's all
I can think about is like those are wonderful X.
My glasses are pushing on the part that hurts.
It also breaks down the metaphor a little bit because if you're
trying you can't saw a board without a tool right now.
Like you can't do a sawing thing.
Like I guess what they were trying to say was I want to
build muscle so I can use a hand saw I guess rather than which is
still a tool. So he's still using a tool like
props for sticking with the analogy here.
Commenter. But you know, but also I mean, I
fundamentally get the idea. That you one might not want to
have to rely on an external thing because you might not have
access to it later or whatever and certainly you don't have to
take medicate. Like nobody should force you to
to take, you know, antidepressants but well I guess
I have a question is just Why, you know why what's the point?
It's like you're trying to prove something yeah, why wouldn't you
do the thing integrated Again, I'm not saying this person
should be but they're not, you know, that's not up to me but
it, honestly, you know, honestly, I'm just going to, I'm
just going to go ahead and fucking say it.
It reeks of toxic masculinity. Exactly what I was like it reeks
of Tosca. Toxic masculine, and boy.
And that's the thing is like the, the more that I've sort of,
like, started this process of, like, talking and educating and
advocating about mental health, and I realizes this is like,
honestly what I'm about to say is just it all it just reeks of
fucking privilege because I just Didn't know things for too long.
But like just the weird object stigma of medication when it
comes to mental health. Yeah.
It's like, if you have bronchitis, you go and you get
antibiotics. If you have a heart condition,
people happily take medication, but the minute it's a
conversation about mental health, it's like, oh well,
you're just not trying hard enough or your your week or
you're giving up or you're looking for an easy way out and
it's like do you know how hard I had to work to get on
antidepressants like yes, the asking part was easy because I'm
an adult and I just had a conversation with my doctor but
like the personal growth required to get to the point
where I was able to like sort of like unpack.
My own like internalized ableism and be like oh fuck I'm not okay
and like I need this. Tool this boost like it takes a
profound amount of work I think. And it, and it just baffles me
that there is still this like, prevalent attitude.
That it's like, well, anybody taking mental health medication
is just like given up or lazy or just not trying hard enough or
whatever and I'm like, dude what?
Yeah, it's straight doesn't make any like the logic behind.
It is just so strange to me. Yes, I'm gonna hear all the time
to is the goal is to get off the medication which again,
especially as an alcoholic. I understand not wanting to have
to be reliant on an external thing that can go away.
Yeah. Like that's there's a
vulnerability inherently involved in that like like, you
know, Iron Man without his suit, you know, it'd be cool if Iron
Man just had superpowers, but you needed a suit.
It's like I get that but I hear a lot about the goal being to
get off the antidepressants or to get off the ADHD medication
like you need. It for a little while like a
cast on your leg until it gets better, but that's we don't
apply that. Same logic to other things.
Like if you have high blood pressure or whatever, or if you
have a heart, murmur, whatever you're taking medication for a
physical ailment, like sure, if at some point in your life, you
end up being like oh looks like my blood pressure is fine
without a medication that like that's but we don't think about
that will like you just take the medications that you need to be
okay. It's weird that we apply that to
mental health medication and I think it's very strongly rooted
in. Just the idea of weakness.
Yeah you give the like you're weak.
Therefore you need. This thing suit will eventually
if you have the the balls or whatever you'll be strong and
then you won't need them. I just don't understand that
argument like, either I understand that argument, but it
and it's it is, I think it's rooted so much in.
I don't want to say like, toxic masculinity, but like just talk.
Sexism like as a whole, like, it is just a wholesale, toxic idea.
Like the other day, I got an email from somebody who has ADHD
like they're they're absolutely sure that they have ADHD and
they also are suffering from like depression and they wanted
their, they don't want to go get screened.
And I was like, okay well, why not?
And they said the reason why I don't want to get screened is
because I Thinking about leaving my husband.
And if I get screened for depression and ADHD, my husband
is going to use that against me in trying to get the kids.
Whoa, and I looked into it and apparently that is really
common, like, taking mental health medication is often used
against people in situations like that.
That's so weird because they're taking the medication, you know,
like If you had untreated the thing but like the by nature of
them, taking the medication its treated, but it's, but it's one
of the reasons why people are unwilling to seek diagnosis is
because mental health diagnoses are often used against people in
court, huh? Especially it is like, and it's
like, once you start going like, and it's honestly, like, I swear
to God. So I've been looking at schools,
right? I'm looking at schools because I
want to go back and maybe become a But I found I started doing
research and I went down this long Rabbit Hole of like, all
these different court cases and and I found out that there's a
specific program that is just about policy and like, advocacy.
And I was like, I think I was like, I'm only, I'm literally
thinking about switching Majors just to become like a
professional like advocate in like legal situation.
That's cool. A friend of mine.
Shut up Melissa. Hi Mel.
Bow. If you're listening I that you
are but hi. She She used to be the owner of
the LARPing. LARPing company, a community,
whatever that I involved with. But she's from, she's a lawyer
and her passion. Our is immigration rights.
Yeah. But the skilled of place where
she felt thought she could be most useful as like.
Oh if I have the skills of a lawyer that I can use those
skills to help, you know, immigrants be treated fairly.
And well I think that sounds very similar like I think your
passion is mental health advocacy but like you're getting
more Tools in your Toolkit. That's cool.
Also, I can't become a lawyer though because Lon, my mom will
finally have gotten what she wanted.
Most you one of my whole life. Another thing will little topic
change, but I want to talk about it.
One of the really hard things about taking a medication for
mental health. Is that there are so many
variables that change that can change your mental health.
How much you're eating, how much you're sleeping, how much you're
drinking the weather. Like, there's so many different
things that can have an effect on your mental health.
And if you're doing any given sciency thing, you want to
isolate your variables, you want to figure out specifically what
variables have what effect. And so when taking a medication
something that I think is very important is trying to I mean
these are things are always important but particularly for
Gamification is making sure that you're eating regularly sleeping
reasonably regularly. Doing other things which are
already really fucking hard. Especially if you're getting
medicated for something, that makes those things very
difficult, but I think that's crucially, important is, you
know, whatever the amount of food You're supposed to have in
your stomach when you eat when you take the pill, you know,
make sure that that's consistent.
I think that can be really, really hard but for me,
especially with ADHD, it was kind of funny.
I remember when I first started got Medicaid for ADHD.
Is November 9th 2009, love that you know the deal us a
life-changing day I mean I know the date but I was also just
because it was my birthday, let's chose really remember but
I was taking I would take notes. I would take the morning and
then class I was doing the class stuff but I would take notes on,
what's Happening? I was like okay, it's you know,
8:30 because high school starts ridiculously early, you know,
it's 8:30 and you know, I'm sitting in class and German
class and I'm interested in a detention and chewing like good.
And then I would do the next one.
Like, all right, now it's 10 like still feeling good.
Like I, you know, I know I'm hungry, but I don't feel the
urge to eat. That's weird.
You know, I'll be take notes and then, at some point, during the
day, I would stop taking notes. And that's how I knew that the
medication was wearing off. So, it was a really weird thing
of your, the thing that is changing is monitoring itself.
The thing that's changing. Yeah.
And that is so fucking weird and anything you can do to minimize,
external factors complications hunger.
And then in hydration and stuff. Like when I first started taking
ADHD minutes, one of the things that took the longest for me to
notice was a lot of them, decide effects that I thought were
from, the medication were actually like tertiary side
effects. You know, the fact that I wasn't
eating was what was making my brain feel fuzzy at five.
Yeah. And so, over the years, I
learned, oh, I have to eat consistently, I have to make
sure I'm drinking water first thing in the morning instead of
coffee and like, all that kind of stuff.
And that though that was sort of the process of getting This tool
to work as best for me is possibly could in.
After Jesus over a decade, holy schnikeys now it's a sort of
second nature like now like I have a different relationship
with the feeling of hunger now because like, it's very strange,
but I think trying to keep those things consistent is vitally
important and doing those things alone is much more difficult
than doing them not along. So having like a confidant or,
you know, a therapist, something like that to talk to you about
those things can be really helpful.
Will having an external thing that's not changing with the
medication? I I just got like so sciency
about this for a second. Well like one of the things that
I think is really interesting though about that conversation
is how many people with ADHD and other neurodiversity diverge?
Oh my God. Fuck anyway, the word that I say
all the time every single day in order to understand that that's
the one but also I can't talk good now, like that's fine.
I keep forgetting words. Real that's like a new thing
like yeah. What did I forget?
This morning. Architect.
Yeah, I couldn't remember the word I keep forgetting like
words, it's weird. Thanks for letting me know.
Yeah, I just I just noticed that like I was just like, fuck but
anyway, interceptive like just senses like what's going on
inside your body? Like that's something that a lot
of neurodivergent people really struggle with anyway and I
struggle with that so much like the like, especially hunger like
feeling hunger, I like feeling hunger and feeling full is
something that I just like, I don't.
It's my my sense of that, it's like all fun.
Stop. And so like in conversation with
with like, especially stimulant meds.
I'm always like, why do I feel like garbage?
And it's like, oh because I haven't eaten in three days,
like, it's really challenging and I think that like what you
said is really good solution, is just like you, you got it, you
got it. Just think about it, in terms of
like, scheduling out your day, even if you don't feel hungry,
gotta be something. Got you will snacks back, you
gotta drink water like whatever. Hmm, But yeah, I was just
thinking about like, how hard it is like as a neurodivergent
person who already struggles like to like really like freed
those internal signals to like Manage the new challenges of
like medication with the goal of the medication, ultimately to
make you feel better and to be better.
It's weird, man. Yeah, truly strong.
Also, I just got real weird. Just so, you know.
You want him. You got it.
I just I just have no idea. What's happening.
Whoa, what are you doing to do? What do you feel?
What do you feel on your body? I mean, I feel fine.
I'm just not. Sure.
Huh, about the reality of the situation props for recognizing
it. I mean I keep I keep realizing
it like in the mall. I'm just like whoa.
Yeah well it's good I think I mean I think the mindset with
which you're approaching it is really good.
I think you know when you taking any medication you kind of
turned get you got to turn into like a self scientist.
You actually going to turn to Jeff Goldblum funds, a fly.
You got to turn into Jeff Goldblum from the fly.
You gotta just like watch yourself and just be as my mom
would say remember that. You're that.
You're not the feeling you're the The feeler of the feeling.
Yeah. You know, if you're feeling
angry or sad or scared or anxious, it's important to have
some part of you. Be stepped back from that.
Yeah. And go like, oh, look at that.
I'm anxious now I because that's what, lets, what allows you to
notice? Oh, I get anxious at 4:30
exactly every day. Huh?
And that's really hard and really difficult to do.
And I think you're doing is its, I think you're, I think you're
doing it, especially, you know, since You're telling me these
things. Yeah.
Well, and when I, when I started the antidepressants, I we
decided me and my doctor. We decided that like I was not
going to take like the Adderall. Oh really.
Um, just to because, like just to admit like to isolate the
variable right isolate the variable.
But so it's weird because like I keep like I keep getting like
really fuzzy, like I'll start the sentence, but by the end of
the sentence, I can't remember the start of the sentence and
soul. Like I sort of just like, like
hoping that I sort of like get to a point and so yeah.
So that's been like really weird.
It's just like figuring out like okay.
Well, is that because, like, I'm taking less of my like regular
ADHD medication or is it because of like something?
You know what I mean? It's just like, it's all just
some new still. Yeah.
So I'm really interested to see what it's like next week.
Like I'm just I'm, it's gonna go one of two ways.
I feel like, I'm either gonna be like in a pile on the floor or
not. Also, I did just realize that
neck. Week.
Will be on a plane, so I'm playing Quad Cities.
How do you feel about that having being having the
medication? Wow, I'm so worried about, it
really was so worried about what kind of work like, how does it
because it's like, I mean, you saw me yesterday, why you think
I can't do that at a convention? Like I have to be on, like, I
have to be on and, like, thankfully, like, on Friday, we
only have like one panel and then we've got, you know, it is
neurodiversity at the gaming table, so it just is a
conversation that we're, you know, No, and I'm excited, but
I'm really worried because it's like, if I start to melt down,
like I can, we can go back to the hotel room like that will be
fine. But it's like a very different
experience of like, being in the safety of, like, my kitchen and
having like you, and Chris sitting there next to me being
like you're not dying your fine. Till like, now I'm at a
convention and surrounded by hundreds of people and like, you
know what I mean? It's just it's I'm thrilled
fucking stressed out about it. Yeah, I'm sorry.
Sweetheart, it's not be there. Thanks.
I think it's I think I was at us.
At all times for. I think, forgiving yourself, and
giving yourself some slack. Yeah, I mean importantly they
are. The people who are coming to see
us are so kind and so gracious. It's like I feel I don't feel
like anybody is going to begrudge me like, okay, he
didn't come out to the bar after whatever like I'm very publicly
on new medication. Like it will be fine but it's
just that internal sort of like guilt and like expectation that
I put on myself to like be fine all the time.
Anyway, That is like, I'm just I'm really worried that like,
you know, we're going to be the middle of like the podcast.
I'm just gonna start like weeping and I'll be liked by
everybody. You gotta go to be like
super-awkward and weird, you know.
Yeah. Well here's what we'll do.
I'll memorize some very long monologues.
Okay. You know, so if you if you go
down in the middle of the thing, then you'll give me a little
signal, you'll tug on your ear, like a first base coach or
something like that or third base coach, which one has the
coach both, both of them do know.
There's their face, the surveys. There's no first base coach.
Ouch now, it's not a thing. Thanks the way we'll do some
cool hand signal and then I'll I'll go into like kingly or
something like that. You know what?
I can't like. That's a playwright.
Yes, I'll give you a dollar if you can tell me a line from Cake
layer right now. Hey, King Lear, how you take
your coffee King Lear, who's in this play?
It's actually amazing. Those pretty good as the opening
deck 33 Ali. Yeah really.
It's the only departure from iambic pentameter or forward
forward forward really bones. I am I'm proud of you.
Taking medication is really hard, not just like, well,
you're taking it, the things that happen during like that's
really hard but just deciding to do it realizing that it could,
it might be able to help you batting away all the fucking
bullshit. The of people telling you that
it's a show of weakness or whatever, I've got a couple of
main emails. Have you really Instagram
messages from people who were disappointed in me for giving
into big Pharma? I was like black.
Like like I don't think like it's in a conversation of I'm
considering killing Myself or I'm going to take some meds and
maybe hopefully not want to do that.
Like I would think that maybe you would support my being alive
but you okay that's fine. Why don't you write this email
to your local representative or something?
You I don't email Mitch McConnell instead, tell them
that you're mad at him because I'm Jenna, don't care.
I'm Gonna Keep whatever I think. Overall my, I'm my Journey with
medication has been worth it. Oh absolutely.
Mine is absolutely been worth it.
Like I am nervous. I'm apprehensive but like yeah
like I'm I regret nothing like I regret I don't have any regrets
about like my ADHD meds. Like it took me a long time to
realize how badly I needed antidepressants but like I don't
regret it at all. Like this is this is a really
good decision for me and like a really good decision.
I think for like my future, like our future, the future of the
party. Cast like I'm zero regrets nice
me either. I think looking going through
some of the things that I went through particularly with my
Deeds, you know, it's my niece. She meds were really hard to get
a hang of my depression meds, I looked out on super hard.
My the first one I tried worked and then we raise the dosage.
I think twice in that worked and those great log.
Very, lucked out there but with ADHD meds it was a tumultuous.
Voyage and I still have a lot of trouble with it sometimes, but
it is a tool in my Arsenal which is really nice.
If I, you know, it helps me do things like, you know, filling
out paperwork and whatnot. The fear and anger and shame.
I would feel around, paperwork was staggering and so not only
do I just get the effects of You know, having the medication that
helps me, do the paperwork and stuff, but also the secondary
benefit of the knowledge that those things no longer are as
big of an issue as they used to be.
Yeah, is amazing. Like what it's done for like,
even my like anxiety, you know? Because before if before I was
taking it, easy medications, if I had a bunch of stuff that is
particularly hard for a person with serious executive function
issues about a bunch of stuff like that to Do, Not only would
that suck but I would spend Hours days weeks leading up to a
freaking out about it but now I know like okay when that comes
I'm still not great at it. But I know that I have.
I have tools in my Arsenal, one of which is medication to get
those things done. It is freed up a lot of my
energy to like pursue having a happy and fulfilling life, not
just comfortable and tolerable life and those are, that's
those. I think the biggest things that
medication is done for me is, is realize that My life can be
enjoyable and good in fulfilling not just not terrible and
wanting that is difficult. What is?
I think it's worth pursuing lightning round before we go.
Yeah, somebody listening to this podcast is wanting to talk to
their doctor about starting medication.
How would you ask your doctor? Because I was one of the most
popular question we get is like, I don't know how to talk to my
doctor because I can tell you exactly what I said to my
doctor. Yeah, I said I'm really
Struggling with depression and I want to have a conversation
about antidepressants that is word for word.
All I said like that was it and she was like, okay and that was
it. What would you say?
I would say always having a having a written down thing
beforehand is super helpful because it's easy to like on the
car ride over to the doctor think like this is what I'm
going to say, but then when you're actually sitting in the
room with them, it can be really hard to maintain that same level
of veracity in terms of advocating for yourself.
Yeah. As you did in the shower earlier
that day you know so like having a thing written even if it's
just like a little something on your phone or whatever would be
looking like making sure you have those pieces.
You're going to hit is really important, having a list of just
like with ADHD and depression, having a list of symptoms their
onset and specifically how they're affecting your life.
Like having examples of like not just necessarily like, oh, it's
hard to focus but be like I have to fill out this report every
day at work and every time it takes me five tries because I'll
sit down and then realize I don't have a pan and then I'll
run across the room and I'll sit down again.
But then I wear the fan across the room is pointing in a weird
Direction at like so give them specific Vic things like that
and also make it clear that you're interested in pursuing
medication because Just, it's easy to feel like that's
implied, you know, like, obviously I'm looking for a
medication, you know, solution to this, but specifically saying
like and I've heard that medication is worked for a lot
of people like that kind of thing.
And also not being honestly, I'm going to tag on like, not being
a like, there's such a fear of being perceived as like a drug
seeker. Oh, yeah.
But like, that's so like, that's okay to advocate for.
For yourself, in terms of like, yes, I am looking for medication
because like, I really think that I need the assistance that
medication can provide like, yeah, I still feel like we have
to do a whole episode just about, like, how to talk to your
doctor about stuff because like, there's so much bullshit in
terms of like, oh well, you're just here for like Adderall or
whatever like yeah. Yeah, really yes.
I mean, I still feel that way. I just my insurance is Chained
over. It changed over and I had to
have like an intake, whatever with a doctor.
Is it go yesterday? I don't remember.
What did you do that already. Oh, I have like the first one.
I have another one scheduled. Okay, fill it.
But this was just like the intake triage 10.
Sure. But still, when I say to get a
sense for ADHD I'm so excited. Yeah, I'm gonna do it again.
Can we have a quarter for the podcast?
Well, no. It's going to be at some place.
Oh, you know, but I still feel weird saying, well, when I got
my eyes checked the other day and they asked the guy was like,
hey, do you know you take medications and I said yes and I
told him what it each team is. I'm taking.
I still feel like he's thinking druggie or whatever.
Yeah and I have I actively have to be like wait that is no you
don't know that. That's what this person is
thinking and honestly if they are they can go fuck themselves.
Like this has, you know, it's a hard thing to deal with and I
know just remembering that you have bodily autonomy and you
were allowed to ask her what you think you need, but also
remember unless you are, you're probably not a, you're not a
doctor. So, being trying to focus on,
I'm trying to solve this problem, not necessarily, you're
searching for a certain outcome is also good to keep in mind,
really useful. Yeah.
Anyways, Katie, do you want to do our outro right now?
Yeah. But here's the thing, my ukulele
is Out Of Tune and I find it in this moment to be hopelessly
sad, so I don't want to cry but my out of tune ukulele.
Okay, so we just won't do the song this week.
We'll do a mega Song megasonic this week, which means that if
you're like, hey, but I was supposed to be the second
speaker, like, wait a second. I didn't get to be in the song.
What's the song? Well, usually every week, except
for this week because I'm sad about my out of tune ukulele, we
make up a song for the new patreon sponsors.
So if you want to get it on that, if you want to be part of
next week's, super mega song had on our the Patriots patreon.com
slash. I'm so sad about my parking my
little it's fine huh? It's it's patreon.
That comes /. Infinite Quest.
Eric, please help me. I'll tune your ukulele.
It's infinite quest.com or, no, it's fine.
Even the solid it's patreon.com slash infinite Quest.
Please, consider helping support us, it would really mean the
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Thank you so much for joining us again.
Apologies at this episode is a little late.
But remember, drink water, eat food.
Get some sleep, we love you. That's not how that goes.
It's not how it goes. I think that's how it goes.
Remember drink some water. Take your buzz, you suck.
You kind yourself be kind to others.
I remember that. We love you.
Okay.