Yes. Hi.
Hello. It's me.
Hey goat today on infinite Quest.
We have Vis Behar who, you know, from under the desk news.
There are also the founding board member of the queer food
Foundation, the executive director of impact for
everything food. The also created the very
successful Harvest RX program which matches chronically ill
patients, with farm-fresh, produce boxes delivered directly
to their home at no fee to the patient.
And they are also now the host of the LA Times.
Channel. I talk to them about how under
the desk news came to be, as well as the mission of the queer
food foundation and just some other stuff.
There are very red person and we finally decide who has the
better hair. Without further Ado, here's my
interview with Vis pay hard. We thank you so much for being
here. Yeah, it's super exciting to be
on. So I wanted to ask first off.
Just how did under the desk news?
Come to be. So I am a person who was finding
myself in a familiar situations, many folks, I'm sure where I was
having a difficult time watching the news and I was more into
like reading newspapers at this point and trying to limit the
amount of like visual stimulation that I had.
Or like just that influx of really intense news was getting
to be quite a bit. And in January I Jokingly
started doing the news from under my desk, to create this
kind of like calm news from a safe space.
The idea being like when you don't feel well or when you're
scared, you're on, you might go under your desk in your office
or something like that, and it started off kind of just as a
joke to do, just do one and, you know, talking about stuff that
was going on in January. And one of my friends was like,
yo, you better get back under the desk and explain the 25th
Amendment? Because people don't know what
it is or you better get back into the destiny.
Explain what's going on now? And so I just kept Speaking
directly to people, without a lot of visual stimulation in the
background. And just trying to create this
like safe space where we could talk about things without it
having to be like heavy heavily editorialized or biased and just
K, here's what happened and then you know go do with that what
you want. So it seems to be very disarming
in a way. Was that intentional?
Yeah it was and it really just came from the way that I talk to
people in the way that I process information which was if you
come at me hot, I'm already panicking so I can't really like
internalize what you're Bang. So, I wanted to eliminate that
in my channel and just kind of be like, here's what happened.
This is going to mean different things to everybody, no matter
where you are in the world, or what your particular, Walk of
Life Is So here are just kind of like the facts of what happened.
Or here's what the bill says line by line without adding in.
And this is what it means. And I think folks really
appreciated that because it gave me an opportunity to think
critically themselves to kind of apply it to their specific
situation. Instead of running it through my
filter, what I think these things that happen mean.
Absolutely. So you describe your audience as
a Really intelligent curious group of critical thinkers to,
what extent do you think you've attracted these curious critical
thinkers and to what extent do you think by consuming your
content you've caused your audience to become more Curious
and to think more critically? I think it's a combination of
both. I think, when you are a
Storyteller or any type of entertainment, Entertainer
journalist, whatever you have to assume that your audience is
thoughtful intelligent and great critical thinkers because
otherwise you risk offending them.
And you know, telling them things that aren't going to be
what they want to hear are going to be the way they want to hear
it. So it's not so much that I
attracted these types of folks or that they became that way
from watching my content so much.
As I just give, I guess the benefit of the doubt that every
single person coming to the channel comes with the best of
intentions. Every single person comes with
an open, heart and mind and wants to learn, and wants to
have a good faith, conversation about it.
And when you do that, that's going to sort of, you know,
that's going to fill either the way that you're giving info in
the way, you're presenting things.
Oh yeah, I absolutely felt. I certainly felt when I was
especially growing up that the news was talking down to me.
I think it's very often. We think of children in
particular as being just not smart enough for worldly enough
to understand some concept. And so whenever I watch the news
with my parents, I could always tell that this newscaster was
not only talking down to me. But also my parents and my
grandparents my gosh, is this really how the news is reported?
So curious, what was your relationship to the news?
Going up and up to now. So growing up in the 80s and
90s. The news was was a little
different right? Like it.
Shut off at a point. I can remember when they would
play the national anthem and then they would shut off the TV,
that would be the end of it. And you typically, the last
thing I would watch in the night would be like, maybe on Friday
nights. We'd watch TGIF.
And then, my mom would let me stay up to watch Barbara Walters
on 20/20. And I loved that because she was
always interviewing somebody, and I thought that you did such
a great job at like being interested in them as a person.
So that's like my early days with the news, my parents, I
didn't watch cable news, we didn't have, you know, the fox
CNN constant type situation going on and in fact, my dad
hated watching the news. So I didn't grow up in a house
where, you know, I've heard a lot of folks, and seeing a lot
of folks were, like, their dad is getting mad at the TV and
getting mad at the news with her parents getting out at the news
and fighting back with the TV. We didn't have that my parents
were like shut that off. That's annoying.
That's trash. We're going to watch two people.
Only one is Barbara Walters on 20/20 and the other one is
Diane. We watched Diane Sawyer and
night. Eric did I Nightly News and she
was our local newscaster, and she was also incredibly gentle
and I remember one time she was reporting on a car crash and she
cried and they just paused and let her have like a little tear
about it and she was like, I'm sorry, but I'm a real person and
I remember thinking that was so like impactful to me and I bird
crying about the car crash in New Haven.
And so I think that that played a lot of a role like seeing
people as folks who were really interested in the stories of the
public and weren't really just putting on an authoritarian are
and using really big words and try to make people feel dumb if
they didn't understand. So I growing up with ADHD and
which which heavily affected by reading.
I'm not officially dyslexic, but I'm learning as I get older and
sort of going through my past. I've always had an immensely
hard time reading, I always felt the news is being very
inaccessible because the news TV shows, they had things scrolling
under the screen and big cool animation things.
And so I could generally focus on one, Those things and but
what the person was saying, was sort of patronizing and the
words on the screen, where concerning all sorts of things
print news, which much the same way because it was reading.
Do you feel that you're in some way, trying to fill a need?
That wasn't meant for you throughout your life?
Concerning the news, since you have ADHD and dyslexia, I think
we all try to make things easier for folks like ourselves and we
think like, I wish I had this and I don't know that I intended
on it being this way. Like I went into it with a plan
to say like I'm gonna, you know, be able to provide services to
folks with ADHD and dyslexia, but it's just the way that I
communicated and it made sense and with Tick-Tock because I
didn't have an editor over me, I could do what I wanted to do and
what made sense to me? That often times folks are like
that's dumb, don't do that. That's not going to work.
You can't not use a video. Package.
You can't just sustained eye contact with your camera.
You can't do this. You can't do that.
If you don't have pictures, they're not going to stay
involved. You can't do a three minute
video. You can't do a single topic.
You can't just do a headline. And I was like, well no I
actually I think I can. And so what I did Growing Up is
I learned early? I could either pay attention to
a lecture or read the book. I couldn't do both something
about doing both me to very difficult to learn because the
information the way that it filters through the teacher,
right? That bias added to what was in.
The text just didn't work in my brain to how to understand
something. So I can remember watching TV
shows with my eyes closed. When I was young or watching the
news with my eyes closed, or only reading and then not
watching the movie or just watching movie, not read it.
I couldn't do both. And so I wanted to create this
thing in which you could just listen to it or you could watch
it. But it wasn't so overly
stimulating, like you said, because for some folks, You
know, I'm looking at the picture of the car over here and I'm
like, oh, there are police cars, don't look like that and then
they're talking about a murder. And then I'm reading on the
bottom that like schools closed tomorrow.
Like it just didn't work for me and it would cause a lot of
frustration. So yeah, I think Hmm.
I also. So for kidding me, infinite
Quest started to sort of an amorphous side project and is
now become a name, Morpheus full-time job.
So how is your understanding of the significance of not just
under the desk news? Because I don't want to to going
to say bucks you in but I suppose your desk is already
doing a pretty good job of that. But how is your relationship to
you being an active figure in communicating?
The news changed since you started doing it?
Was it sort of a you It was sort of a small silly thing.
You did that suddenly became more important, how is your
understanding of its significant change from then to now?
So what we spent a good communicator and I've always
been a person who could interpret things well and see
very clearly, big picture and then also change like the way
that my brain was configuring to see the brushstrokes of
something, where I struggled in this journey, is that I don't
have a strong journalist background.
I have a strong like facilitator, performer key, Note
speaker, explainer program, managers had background.
So when I started to get a lot of attention for the account I
started to have people ask me well, where did you go to
school? And I hate that question.
It's like in d.c. They ask you the first time,
where do you work, right? Oh yeah.
Like that really has very little to do with what your talents are
your skills or your potential is.
And so, you know, they just announced this morning, I'm
joining the LA Times and so many of my friends were like, did you
just walk onto the LA times? And I'm like, no.
Path. To, this particular role may not
have been the traditional one but it doesn't mean that it's
any less viable Avenue to where I got to.
There is a need to perform the news.
There is a need to bring an entertainment style to it or if
unification style to it, that isn't just the traditional it's
7:00 and this is what I'm saying, right?
With authority sitting behind a desk in a very fancy suit
getting under your desk in a very fancy suit.
Really disarms people then they're really you know, they're
willing to listen. You're On their level.
And so I think that that is definitely helped with the
biggest. And hardest thing was not having
the pedigree that other journalists have that I am in
company with now. Hmm, I certainly hear that
you're talking to a three-time community College Dropout.
Now gets often put on the same list as people with Neuroscience
degrees and like no we're not the same thing, that's
different. Different ways of getting to the
same place as you feel that. Did you ever ever have any
moments of sort of Doubt, as you were getting to this position
now at the LA Times, was that what you were aiming for 41?
Or were you just sort of trusting the feel of moving
forwards? And did you ever have any doubt,
trusting that feeling of just keeping going and moving
forwards? The LA Times came in a very like
Universe gift, beautiful way and I do think that there is a need
to Anchor the news and anchor, the news papers for the public
in a way that cable news has Has its own benefits and its own
problems, right? The journalism that you get from
a newspaper reporter is so strong and detailed and unique.
And often times that same type of reporter, might not be the
person who is going to deliver that story visually or on Tick
Tock or on the news or whatever. And I think that this gives us a
chance to go back into print news and go back into that old
school style, journalism, but also still have it performed in
an authentic and credible way. So that Everything isn't just
like screaming from one side, or the other, like, we're telling
the story, you know? I think it's why podcasts are so
popular people like to be told stories and they like to be told
them in a like wheezing way that's not screaming and just
kind of allows, folks to time to reflect and think about what
they're learning. Hmm.
You said earlier that you used to watch your parents used to
watch very specific newscasters. They would only watch to how do
you feel now becoming one of those people.
Do you what type of figure do you see yourself as being?
I mean, you've stated The Importance of Being sort of
unbiased and just stating the facts.
How do you want people to see you as a presenter of the news
and how do you, how do I say? How do you get them to trust
you? But how would you like them to
trust you? How would you like them to
arrive at trusting you? I think they arrived at trusting
me because we're in the same room.
We're sitting at the same table. I don't want to be nor will I
ever be? Let's take a look Jake Tapper as
a figure, right? I'm not going to be somebody who
is an authoritative Pulitzer prize-winning like journalist,
right? Who's like coming from this
certain particular space, my audience is like sitting in the
room with me and we're talking about it, we're reading the
things together and then we're talking about it again.
And were able to just have those kind of open conversations and I
really like that. When I was growing up.
The other thing that I used to watch a lot of with Sally Jessy.
Raphael, write it. Like, I loved her.
I really did and want to talk about like a tabloid show.
It wasn't, it wasn't right. She had the ability to talk to
people who are some of the worst people in the world and still
get their story. And some of the best people deal
with the motion deal, with the real human experience and I
always liked that the talk show hosts were in the audience
because to me, that's where I wanted to be.
You're here, you're in the audience with the people, we're
opening the curtain, two. Her learn about this particular
person or this particular thing that's going on in the world and
they were kind of closing the curtain and then we're going to
go maybe talk about it at lunch with our friends or something
but it's not it's not the be-all end-all.
It's more like a place of exploration and learning and
then taking that and applying it to your life wherever else you
want to. So I think for me where I want
to stay is in the audience like I want to stay on the side of
the people who are also learning because a lot of times I'm just
learning about the thing I'm reporting on.
What would you say to people who believe that?
The presenter of the news is above the audience.
I think a lot of people want that, you know, and I think
there's a place for that to write like there are sometimes
when somebody being an expert in being authoritative and coming
from a place above the audience is very calming, it gives you a
sense of safety, right? That's what we want from
politicians or what we used to want from politicians is sort
of, like, feeling of, like, a parent, or like a hero or like
somebody who knew what was going on and they were going to get
you through it and you were safe.
So, I think there's some place for that.
What I worry about with the news is it is very easy.
Need to be animated and wrong and just go with it.
I'm not even saying they're compromising your integrity or
their credibility. I'm saying when you get
attention from an audience for doing a certain kind of trick,
it's hard to not do that trick anymore.
That's sometimes that trip runs out and then you've got yourself
to a place where you're sort of boxed into being this
whatever-it-is character that you've created.
But It can't go any further than that and a lot of ways you've
damaged your ability to go in another Direction.
Hmm do you feel? That's what I want to say that
that is happening or has happened to you with on being
literally under the desk but do you worry about that?
How do you what does that mean in Context of you under the
desk? I worry about being wrong.
Sometimes I read the articles like four and five times, I read
the exact opposite. Like if I'm reading something,
let's say in the Washington Post, I'm also going to read
that same. Or even Washington examiner or
something, which you know, because you've got far right
leaning far left leading and then, I can kind of discern like
what the truth is in the middle. If you're reading both sides,
you get where the bias came in so that you can eliminate the
bias from the facts. My I'm not worried about getting
boxed into under the desk because I think it's a fun great
place and I am doing other things in the world and folks
can see that sort of trust and personality come out from
underneath the desk physical space.
What I worry about is ever reporting, something that is
wrong because you really don't get a chance at retractions
anymore. The second you say something
that really is it goes too quickly.
You've got Duets. Flying off.
You got stitches flying off. You really you can never get it
back if you say something wrong. So I try to be so careful with
what I say and that's my biggest fear is that somehow some story
will be Published widely and then turn out to not be true and
then you can't get it back or that fact changed or something,
you know? Yeah, I certainly feel that way
to with with ADHD related content where there there's
something called the international consensus
statement on ADHD which is basically everything that
scientists around the world have all agreed.
Stamped we know this to be true about ADHD but there's always no
research being done, which is great but reporting on a study
that may or may not find some Ian is very different than
saying this is certainly true. And so I met sort of at a point.
Now we're reporting on the studies is what I want to be
doing, but I'm so terrified that somebody's going to say.
Oh, Eric said, you know, I don't know.
Doing Rubik's Cubes will cure my ADHD and it's like, no, no, no,
I didn't there was a slight correlation in one study done by
one thing. So, I totally understand that
fear. I'm curious how you said that
you want to be in the audience, a member of the audience.
You've also seen That people seem to look for some sort of a
calming presence, Steady Hand, how do you think a newscaster
whether they're print or or visual Media or you know,
broadcast media can achieve that sort of same Steady Hand, trust
me. I know what I'm talking about
type or a while still being in the audience.
And do you think a person who's not a newscaster?
Just a person who knows other people as people tend to do.
Do can have that same air because it's often really hard
to talk about the news. These days with your friends
without just basically hitting a bunch of panic buttons.
You either have to completely ignore it or freak out about it.
So do you think you being a member of the audience?
But also speaking with such a steady clear voice could be
useful for people in everyday situations.
There's a couple questions in one but it's okay if you teach
the podcast on which is first, first question, I don't think
that everybody can do it. Honestly, I don't think that
everybody is an authentic, curious listener, and I think
that's okay. Some people listen more quickly
than others. Some people like to have things.
Repeated. Some people like to have a fact
in a strong opinion and want to get passionate about it, because
that's the way they communicate. So I think understanding who you
are as a communicator naturally is really important and then
auditing. The things you don't like about
your communication style to improve upon those things.
But overall trying to like her, Be a style that you you like
probably won't work as well as saying like well these are the
things I like to listen to. These are the ways that I
naturally get excited in a conversation.
How do I prioritize those parts that are good and then what else
do I want to work on to decide? And then when it comes to
friends and family, That is a hard one man.
I wish I had an answer for that. There there are a lot of studies
that show the escalated investment people have in
something that they believe and since the 1970s politics has
gone from being something that you are or agree with, right?
I am a Democrat. And I agree with these laws to
something you believe in, and that changed the way that people
are going to interact with. Legislation which is troubling
and I wish there was a way to go sort of reverse that but there's
not, but when you are dealing with somebody's belief set,
they're not going to be as a minimal to critical conversation
about it. So keeping that in mind for
yourself deciding how much of your energy, you're willing to
expel on educating this person understanding if the person
wants to be educated or if they just want to debate you or fight
you and then you know, I try to neutralize that.
Kind of stuff as much as possible because it's never
going to be a good use of our time and no one's going to feel
good walking away from it. We have walked away from lots of
friends and family over the last five years or so some of walked
away from us like they're just some things.
Now that we have ingrained religion in politics as your
beliefs, your moral compass as a person as opposed to having them
be separate civil or religious. It's harder.
So I think we can't deny that it's harder and we can serve
That's the truth of and how people are responding you
saying. I don't agree with the decisions
that the governor of Montana is making for some folks is just as
bad as you saying that, you know Jesus isn't real.
It is on that level of commitment and it's on that
level of right or left and right or wrong.
And that that is something that I truly do hope that we break
down, I think generationally we have a good chance to do that.
The same people have been in power since the 60s are the same
people that are in power now, and a lot of their grudges, and
their habits, and their values are still driving legislation.
And I think that the, you know, Gen-X and younger definitely
have a possibility here to say, like we're just tired of that.
We just We were raised in a different time that was taught
how to share your toys was taught how to critically think
like was everything was about not being selfish and doing
different stuff. So, I think once we actually
achieve some level of political power, as Gen-X and younger
Generations will see differences.
But until then It's tricky because you're essentially, when
you've got Pelosi and McConnell has been in power since 1986.
So it's been their way or the highway for all of this time.
Yeah, I think if I ever got The Infinity Gauntlet I think the
First thing I would send out snap into existence would be
Congressional term limits. I know, and my on the list and
they Cheatham, you know, and then in 2012 they changed the
ways that Congress could invest in the stock market.
This is the thing is, like, there's so many things that are
out front social issues because those are the easier ones to
understand, right? Those also align more closely
with religion and as we're all focused on these social issues
which are of course, very important.
We are not seeing them past the seven hundred sixty billion
dollar military budget. And then you're not asking what
did they spend it on, right? Because troops are very poorly
paid, and military. Grade equipment is the biggest
joke going and anybody in the military will tell you military
grades, not great. So, it's not like, you know, you
would think we would have all this great stuff.
You don't see that in 2012, they change the laws to show, so that
people in Congress could invest in the stock market, which is
obviously, that is a very big problem and should be a problem.
We just saw a secret ballot in July reported on it last night
that the Federal Election Commission has decided now.
Well, Operations, can't directly support a candidate, but they
can support a ballot initiative. So foreign corporations can
support a ballot initiative in America.
That is dangerous man, but it's hard to understand.
And so, if politicians are keeping us, all very, very busy
with all of the different use social issues than your sort of
like out of time and breath and reflection and reading power to
think about those things. Yeah, Kate said something to me,
that one of the benefits of having the ADHD brain is that
That everything is right next to each other.
Everything is just sort of a big pile of papers and are all next
to each other. Kate said that, Shakespeare,
Kate has two masters degrees and Shakespeare said that
Shakespeare used boringness as a literary device, he did it
intentionally very frequently and it seems that American
politics uses. Boringness, as a weapon, they'll
make the really important thing really boring really boring.
And then behind the scenes, they'll, you know, burn
someone's house is down, so Of course, we have to go put out
that fire, you know, but it's really terrifying.
And that's why I try with the bills.
What I'm explaining, the bills are legislation, that's passing.
That's also written in a certain kind of language and a certain
kind of cadence. It's made to reflect like the,
you know, their style guide for DC and the way that laws are
written and it's very confusing and there's a ton of stuff, you
don't need to do and growing up in Connecticut at the time.
I did, I was very lucky enough. They taught me how to speed read
this was Connecticut's, and Answer to the talented and
gifted children, who all are burnt out, and have a TD right
now. So, and with the dyslexia on top
of it, it was a mess but they taught you to essentially speed
read through the middle of the page and look for high-level
Concepts. That's something that people
will like pay extra to learn how to do now.
That's how I learn to read. So I can go through and I can
learn, I can see like, what the concepts are.
I can kind of see, like, big pictures almost looking at one
of those magic eyes. We're like, okay, well if I hold
it here, I can see this. And if I hold it, here, I can
read For brush Strokes. So I can do that, get that high
level of the bill. I know who the politicians are,
what their motivations are. You can then apply what?
You know, their biases are to that bill.
And then you can say, okay well, what are they trying to get out
of this? As a talking point, is this just
something to stomp on the floor about is the something they're
actually going to pass? Is this something?
They're trying to hide stuff in. So when I do those bills, unlike
here is HR 1. This is exactly everything.
It says right here, is this bill that Never going to go anywhere
in the whole entire world and it's about why just think of
something absurd and I'm like, okay well they're just trying to
get their talking point out. That's never going to happen.
There's never going to be a time where we do, whatever thing is
that they're saying. So I wish I had an example of
one right now, but there is frequently people will Just
because it's the only one in my example that popped into my mind
right now. But I'm not making fun of her
and I'm not criticizing this particular party.
Marjorie Taylor green introduced a bill both to Fire dr.
Fauci and to impeach Joe Biden. She knows that she doesn't have
the votes to do that. It's not about having the votes
to do that. Those are two actions that allow
her to talking points that she needs to continue to fund, raise
and push her particular agenda get her base.
Riled up. Those are bills that a
congressperson whenever responsibly submit It because
they know that it's going to waste floor time.
It's never going to get the votes.
It's, it's political theater, right?
So again, not picking on her. The Republican party in
particular. It's just that the easiest one
for me to remember right now is something that's like, very
clearly for alternate purposes. Hmm.
Now I can imagine that somebody might have heard what you just
said, basically a breakdown of this bill was introduced, not in
order to be passed, but as a device for some, you know, other
game that's being played as Move basically, I think something
that often gets confused or two things that often get conflated
are biased and legitimate Insight from a qualified person.
How do you think? Well I suppose, how do you deal
with that distinction for example you just gave me I would
not describe as biased at all but it is from a specific
perspective which is the perspective of a person who
understands these things. How do you walk that line or how
do you draw that distinction in your content?
Because I believe you do that quite successfully.
It's something that I'm very grateful for is that you do give
that Insight but you don't do it for a purpose.
You just stayed at sort of as true.
How do you plan to maintain that balance going forward?
I think you have to recognize that other people's biases.
When they're looking at me as well.
I get a one of the biggest comments I get is, I don't think
we agree politically, but I like the way you talk and I'm like,
okay, but I haven't said any of my opinions on politics and I
think if you knew what they were, you would be rather.
Christ who I've worked for in like what I've done in the past
and they will come, they're coming into it their own bias.
Often times, I have to tell them up front, it's okay to listen to
me. So I'm like, I am not, I don't
have an agenda here to say at the end of what I'm about to say
to you. I'm going to tell you something
else, the opposite is correct. When Marjorie Taylor green,
introduce this law. It was done like this.
It happens all the time often times.
Then I'll say, it's like when Pelosi tore up, Trump speech.
There are things that they do because they need press
attention. Because when they get that
press, Detention. They have different call to
action, right? So we've got like the bait.
It's the just happens everywhere.
It's exactly what happened. So I think people then recognize
that because they're like, oh yeah, okay, I understand the
bait. I've seen her then do that on
the house floor. Okay, whatever.
Get out of here and then go immediately outside and talk
about fundraising and talk about which Camp candidate.
She needs to be supported. That's running for election
right now or talk about something that Trump wants to
say that he can't get his point out because he doesn't have the
Twitter like you can see very clearly.
You know, that these are the things that everybody does, all
I want folks to do is be able to recognize it.
So, like, when Cory Booker does it, or when Marjorie Taylor
green, does it, or Jamie Raskin or Pelosi, or any, one of a kind
of McCarthy, whoever it is, then you can say, okay, I just
watched the bait and call to action switch.
So now I know and it's sort of, I just want people to feel
involved in the process and understand.
A lot of this is normal and once you recognize the plays from the
Playbook, it's like watching your favorite sports team.
You're like, oh, Good move. All right.
You know or whoa, that's an illegal move.
I don't like that, you know. So you can I just think it helps
people understand and then they're not coming at me and
going like, oh you're being biased.
You're tearing up this side or the other side.
They're like, okay, I don't like what you said.
But I understand why that's true.
But I still believe what she says and I'm like, okay, you can
simply what she says. It's totally.
Okay, I'm not telling you to believe or not believe.
I'm just telling you. These were the Motions that
bills never going to go anywhere.
That's why I'm not reporting on it.
So, what do you think that? Do you think the rise of short
form content Tick-Tock you YouTube shorts, Instagram reels.
Do you think overall, they've been good for public
relationship to news or bad? Probably a bit of both.
But overall, what do you think the trajectory is, do you think
it's a net positive - what's the vector there?
I think it's really cool that people can connect with each
other in a way that we've never been able to before and
different Talent can break through in circumstances that
they would never have been picked.
The, I would never ever be picked to do what I do.
If someone else had to come up with under the desk news and was
casting it, they've never would have picked me.
They would have picked somebody else who went to Walter Cronkite
School of Journalism or something.
Like they would have picked somebody else, right?
So I think that there is such a cool opportunity that comes for
people. And on the other side, anybody
can be an expert, anybody can say anything, and they have
watched enough of this short form content and they can move
their accounts around enough that like I said once you get
that point out, that's what it is.
We watched it. I watched a video a couple
months ago and I work in food supply chain and food security
that was my main thing before I was doing this and folks were
tagging those Farmers account, he was saying, how he had to
destroy his crops the Berman was paying him to destroy his crops
and that there was going to be a food shortage turns out that was
a satirical video of somebody who was like making fun of the
Doomsday Preppers. But you've got a farmer on a
John Deere tractor, mowing down corn, and it looks like and he's
shaking his head and it looks like real, right?
So why wouldn't people believed it?
Of course, they believe that I would.
It looked real, you know? And it wasn't real the
government doesn't, you know, the only time that we would ever
pay somebody to destroy crops is when they tell us that those
props were already destroyed and there are subsidies for farmers,
in place, to make sure that farmers can continue to put food
on their own tables. When their crops fail, that is
the USDA standard it has been for hundreds of years.
So, that's not true. It's true, and it's not true,
right? It's the way that the truth is
being told you just provided me, an excellent segue.
I was wondering if you could talk, actually a bit about the
queer food. Station your a founding board
member of the crew thunderation. I'd love to hear just what you
have to say about it. So, you know, like everyone who
wanted to end up on Broadway, which was my original Dream as a
youth. I ended up with a career in food
and so, recently, I was working for the James Beard Foundation
and I was there director of impact James Beard Foundation
for folks who don't know, is like the Oscars of chefs.
So, like, this is the award that they win, it's like the highest
honor you can get It has a long history of being like the
Arbiters of excellence and all this kind of like LED stuff and
then they decided that they wanted to care about the
environment and food and people. And so they brought us in as
this impact team to manage things like lgbtq inclusion and
restaurant culture. Women's leadership in the
kitchen sustainability and seafood sustainability.
And crops they worked with the hill on the black food farmers.
Preparation stuff. Like there's a ton of cool stuff
that this organization was doing.
And at the time, the pandemic hit, they ended up cutting an
awful lot of these impact programs because it was like,
okay, well, who's funding it? And all the restaurants are
closed, and everything's crazy. So, this woman that I had worked
with previously, Gabrielle lehnert, found a queer food
Foundation asked me to be a board member.
There's a bunch of folks from the scene in it, and the idea is
to advocate for queer inclusion in an authentic way and tell
those stories. Or he's there are a lot of
organizations that were working for like, women's equality or
working for by POC recognition. There was a lot of organizations
who were telling better stories about colonization of food and
there wasn't really a lot about the queer journey in food and
their importance within this ecosystem.
And so that's what we work on now is Raising people up and
talking about queer food culture.
Queer food Pathways in a way that you might talk about Jewish
food or Asian food. It or black food because it is
its own little niche world and there's a lot of importance to
it and there's a lot of pain that has come from queer people
in the food World, there used to be a joke, but all the waiters
in New York City were gay and it was a joke and it wasn't a joke
because that was really the only job that we could get back in
the 60s and 70s. And so, for queer men who were
out a lot of times your job was in Food Service.
It's the land of the Misfits for a reason and it remains that way
and we want to protect some of that, but we also want to bring
some more Aspects to the industry in a way that's like
because this is the journey we came from.
This is where we want to go and this is how we actually
authentically include people without exploiting them.
Hmm. So use the term twice
authentically include them. Yeah, what is authentically
include the mean versus in authentically.
It means that week. We're is one of the things that
a chef might be. It's not the first thing that
they are they are French trained or they are Fusion or they are
self-taught or their, whatever the case may be and they are
also queer. What happens?
A lot of the time is June rolls around and everybody gets a
call, right? It's pride month and I want to
do everything with you and then I don't hear from you the rest
of the year. So we wanted to do was talk
about trans inclusion when it comes to setting guests
expectations in the restaurant. If you're going to hire a trans
person to work at the as the reset your counter or something
like that, you have a responsibility to that person
both as the employer, but also the entire atmosphere and who
you're serving what types of guests are you going to allow
are you going to say? Well, I can't do anything about
the guests will, then you really shouldn't hire that person
because it's more damaging than the DIA.
You think it is. So authentically, including
means understanding the queer Community their habits.
The needs that they have the social structures.
They grow up within the family that they have.
It's different often and requires different
accommodations, and just helping people figure out what those are
and do it the right way. Could you clarify what Dia
means, diversity, equity, and inclusion.
So often times we get included but we don't get like
authentically include it will get invited to the dance, but we
will still be a spectacle in some cases.
So the idea here is to normalize the fact that we are people
exist in the world. And it doesn't have to be a
thing where it's like, high as my gay friend, and there's a
chef. It's like, I'm, this is my
friend there Chef, that's it. And then if they're queer, Like
that's okay too but it doesn't have to be just like leading
thing to prove that you are you know doing the right work or
your inclusive. Hmm.
So I think I think we certainly both agree and I'm sure the vast
majority if not all of the listeners of this would agree
that queer. People should be included and
the hospitality industry just because of course they should.
So just that by its own Merit but I'm curious.
What do you think the hospitality industry is missing
out on by By not including them as authentically as they could
or as it could. So it's more of a conversation
of who gets priority and the impact that has on the taste of
this nation. What the food of this nation is
and what the general public gets to have because taking queer,
folks are women or other minorities of any type are less
likely to get funding for their restaurants.
They are less likely to win an award.
They are less likely to get a write-up and those things
influence, what food is available to you in this nation
and that I think is actually the bigger issue here.
So What we're trying to fix. And what we want to continue to
build conversation around is it's not just like, okay, well
it's June. So let's support gay owned
restaurants. It's this person has an
incredible idea and convincing the banks and the powers that
be. And the folks in the award
circuit that just because they don't look like you were there,
not what you're used to or they're not cooking French,
European food, they are still worthy of your time and your
investment and that is something that we were.
Really hard on because that's really what's going to make the
difference if we continue to Center and prioritize, French
American culinary, which is like, you know, from like way
back in the day, what people decided was like fancy food
here, you just missing out on so much other food, and so many
other dining experiences and like it's a, it's a bummer man.
It's a bummer. That the American Diner really
has very limited options when it comes to social dining, which is
such a core part of society. Hmm.
So I think it's interesting. So you said you wanted to be a
Broadway actor, you wanted to be a bra, a star.
Yeah. I like the theater and
everything. I think that's probably why part
of why I'm a good communicator and imagine I do call it
performing the news so well. Oh yeah.
Well I mean, when Kate and I know for sure that, you know,
our mission is to Advocate and educate about ADHD, you know,
Divergence. But people are going to listen,
if you are entertaining, you have to perform, you have to
present it. So, you were Going to go to
Broadway, ended up become going to the hospitality industry.
Worked your way up from being a dishwasher, from what I've read
in my research, my first job. Well, my very first job in the
whole world was working at a dry cleaners, 12 years old.
And I worked for my grandmother who actually have the job there
and I helped her and it was like, the greatest moment of my
life. I remember the first time I got
a paycheck, I mean, it was like completely under the table.
Definitely child labor, and illegal.
But family, doesn't do you remember how much it was I do.
I got four dollars and twenty-five cents an hour.
I remember everything about it because the very First time that
I got by envelope of money was a Saturday when I finished working
and that Monday my dad used to work at like 4:00 in the morning
and I got up to tell him I didn't need lunch money and I
was like I mean I was like so excited about this.
That I had like worked and I didn't lunch money and then my
little brother was like, you're so dumb.
You should have just taken the lunch money and have your money.
Alright? Younger brothers.
There I'm the oldest. We're always like the most
responsible in life, that was dumb.
I hate the phrase. There are two types of people in
this world because, ya know, there are not two types of
people in this world. But that is where I would say,
there are two types of people know more people who took the
lunch money and people who are proud of the liver.
Yeah. But so, you worked your way from
dishwasher to actually being the director of impact for the James
Beard Foundation, which is one just amazing.
And then pandemic happened Meister was much the same way.
I was, I was a trained musician for a while, and eventually that
stopped being to thing. And I went to the hospitality
industry. I worked as a cook /, f,
whatever people want to call it for a long time.
I eventually got pretty high up in what I was doing and then
pandemic and then Tick Tock which sounds like it was a
similar thing for you. I sort of landed and got
traction. Being the ADHD hair guy, you
know about the hair and whatever the hair really helps them Tick.
Tock anyone listening you got to have good hair on Tick-Tock,
what does? Well I was going to ask actually
people have told Kate and me well more specifically me
unprompted my day. Add that you and I are tied for
the best hair on Tick Tock. So my question is, do you agree
with that assessment or do you think they're just trying to
spare my feelings? No, I definitely agree.
No, great hair. You have a good curl.
Good volume. Totally agree.
In a lot of good hair on Tick-Tock.
There really is the really is but so I had sort of a similar
sort of thing. I mean I think not to compare
each other something like that but but but the fields were
similar and I gotta say, I'm scared List all the time at
terrified all the time that if I stopped being the HD hair guy,
then I'll fall off. So I'm curious when you
inevitably get your own show, are you worried more that
they're going to make you stay under the desk or you worried
more that people aren't going to Care once you're not under the
desk, No, because I've been aware of that from the very game
and I think that came if there's one thing I learned in theater
school, that was it is that you cannot get yourself type cast
into a place where that's the only thing that you are and I
had that problem in theater school and I had that problem
when I was performing professionally, I always got
cast as a bad boy from the Bible.
I am not. I cannot tell you how many times
I have played like the narrator or cane or Judas, or always
right always always always playing. this particular type of
character, which worked But when you are creating a character for
Tick-Tock and you, you want it to be your thing, it will become
who you are. And so you have to know that is
who you are. Like, you can't change that.
That is a fact that is a truth, you will always be ADHD hair
guy. I will always be under the desk
and that is a joyful safe home, but then we start to show them
other sides of us. Now within the, under the desk
Tick, Tock Channel, I will never not be under the desk.
I will always be that I love being that people love, that.
That's not going anywhere. Been mindful to build outside of
that Tick Tock was always a jumping-off platform.
I don't think it's like, if you get, you know, like I don't have
a YouTube that I know people who do and they're like, yeah, when
you get a YouTube, I mean, that's really your thing.
You can live off of that. You cannot live off of the to
talk Creator fund. I want so clear with people, you
cannot live off of tick-tock. You need to have a diversity of
other products. So is that like, for you this
podcast, that's something that is going to be built out.
For me. I was doing keynote speeches.
I Still do. I do facilitating, I do emceeing
interviews, all kinds of stuff like that.
I was always building that I never stopped thinking about
that. So that whatever Channel I had
I'm V from under the desk but it's an exciting and fun thing.
And like, oh my God, it's like, seeing teacher outside of
school. You have to make it cool to the
outside of your Universe. To otherwise, it is really,
really difficult and it is scary.
Because Tick Tock is fragile, man.
It is a fragile platform, you could lose your account in a
second. It, they don't care.
So My advice to, anybody would be be dedicated to your thing.
Make sure that's what you really want to do and where you want to
be and then understand what you're building outside of.
It is always got to be running, parallel to your main thing, but
it won't be integrated into your channel.
I had this question for people when I wanted to do shit talking
and speculating because my whole thing is about not having an
opinion, but I was like going to do an Elizabeth Holmes trial
Channel, or like a burner Channel and people were like,
oh, please don't do that. I just want it all here.
I like to visit you here. I was like, okay.
So then I had to create that delineation of, I'm taking off
the suit and above the desk. I changed the lighting, I change
the way, my hair looks, sometimes they even changed my
glasses to make very clear. That this is not an under the
desk episode. This is a moment with me hanging
out and we're Buds and we're just talking because we do have
this relationship and that way you can build alternate
characters into your channel, but you gotta always be looking
for. I was always looking for
something in the real world. That Tick-Tock would be the
jumping off platform to get. Hmm.
Now I have one final question that I always I always ask our
guests. I've asked Kate to as well, but
it's hard for to ADHD people to be on the same page ever.
But for you, I actually have two questions.
One, do you ever do the V introduction speech from V for
Vendetta when you introduce yourself?
I don't. But I said I should, I
definitely haven't you as a performer.
That might be an awesome thing to have under your belt just at
any given time, just to throw out at a cocktail party.
At some point but also first off before I ask this last question,
it's a Whimsical one. It's more of a getting to know
you sort of James Lipton type questions.
So before that, I just wanted to thank you again so much for
being here. And is there anything you'd like
to? I don't want to say plug but I
clearly just did. So what are you working on?
Where can people find you? And you know Tick Tock is still
my main gig. So definitely check out The
Tick-Tock I'm doing the I'm now hosting the LA Times Tick-Tock,
so I'm going to do a couple pieces of content for them per
week, and Then be bringing in some guests to talk about
specifically not just LA but the California perspective.
So West Coast perspective on things happening in d.c. stuff
that's happening with the environment.
A little bit of entertainment but not really and the whole
vibe there is two similarly build out that channel is a
place where you can kind of like chill, listen to what's going
on. It's not the Washington Post.
Nothing New York Times is that the intense intensity of the
East Coast papers? But it's just as credible and
just as important and that's why I said yes to them and I was
really excited about them because it is this All kind of
safe. Space for news.
Yeah, those are my two main things right now, man.
Really excited about those one of them.
Congratulations. Very much just congratulations.
Now, so if you could magically just all of a sudden be able to
play every instrument in the world masterfully or speak every
language in the world eloquently fluently, which would you choose
Well my wife is a cellist so I'm going to choose the speak every
language because she can play almost every distress.
I feel like I feel like that was a ringer question.
Definitely speak every language. I think that that would be just
so incredible. Think of like what a expansive
life you could have, if you could just talk to people in
their own native language and like just all the idiosyncrasies
that come with that and just the experience of that I think would
be really, really cool. Yeah, a very deep sadness within
me that I try not to think about just before bed is If a person
just a random person on Earth were to magically appear in
front of you, there is a very high likelihood that you
wouldn't be able to speak the same language and talk to each
other. Isn't that wild?
Yeah. It is a bummer.
Well, the thank you so much for
being here. I really appreciate it.
Thank you for teaching me everything.
You've taught me just thank you very much for everything that
you do. Yeah, I appreciate Eric.
And I wanted to come out and talk to you.
Because I think that folks, often times have a false idea
that the people that they admire, who are Martyr academic
or journalists have this like they're reading all the time and
it's easier for them. It's not.
I've broken build this like thing with, like I have to
either watch TV with my eyes closed or read.
Like, it's wild, man. But you'll find your own
accommodations and you really can do.
You can go where you want to go. You don't need an expansive
vocabulary, you don't need an Ivy League degree.
Just a few like talking to people figure out how you want
to talk to him or also. And if you'd ever like to come
back and talk, About more of a neurodivergent focused
conversation. The news focused conversation,
we'd love to have you. Yeah, sounds great.
Thanks Eric. All right, thanks me.
And that's it. That's the end of the episode.
Thank you so much for listening. I really hope you enjoyed it.
Thank you again V for being here.
It was just a pleasure to have you.
This is normally the time when we would do the patreon song.
But Kate couldn't be here at the time of this recording and it
just wouldn't be the same without them.
So, expect a super-duper long one next week, it's going to be
great and we're probably going to say Sarah Huff's name about
10 million times. Anyways, please be kind to
yourself, take your meds, drink some water, eat some food, we
love