Hi Kitty. Hi, Eric.
How's it going? I don't know why.
I just screamed higher. And to the microbes are so
fucking excited. I am excited contain it.
I'm excited to be back doing a podcast with my favorite person
to do a podcast with oh shucks. Yeah, it is nice.
Yeah I miss they actually got my own head about I'm getting on my
own I'd walk about a lot of the creative stuff.
Well, that's weird. Really.
Yeah, I suppose it is. Yeah, it's cool.
But before we start, hey everybody.
I'm kousouris and I'm here. Goood.
Welcome back to infant Quest. First off, we just want to say
thank you for your patience on new episode.
Been kind of having a, I do want to say a moment because it fits
very long moment but it's been weird Eric and I rolled
individually and together going through some stuff.
And so, I'm gonna be honest, sometimes having to sit down and
make a podcast is a lot and so we haven't been doing that as
much as what we are supposed to. I think I'm this is our literal
actual job is final. Well it's definitely one of
those things where I keep realizing like, wait a minute.
What actually like pays my bills is all of you.
Lovely find. Patrons.
So the podcast and I was thinking like I could just focus
on that but my brain just won't let me do it.
Like, it's always Is always greener pastures.
Always some other thing I should be doing, but it's like a so I'm
trying to keep that in mind. I also feel like I just really
want to speak for you, but I certainly feel like with my
content and my chi, the word content feels so reductive when
I'm, you know, in certain circumstances.
So, I say, the stuff that I make this, my, my my Creations, both
the videos and the Creations in the videos and all that stuff,
just all the creative stuff. I'm doing right now.
I feel like I'm in an era where a lot of it is sort of turning
in on itself. which is I think on it an inevitable and
necessary thing to do when you're like advancing in a
creative field, where I'm lucky enough to wear the stuff that I
get to make people seem to like it because it has some Meanest
to it. It's authentic, you know, it has
some inherent Eric Miss to it. That is a noise cause I like my
brand, but we're by virtue of me.
Making it in the person that I am people are interested in
seeing it. And so, I think I've been doing
this for long enough. Now, where I'm starting to sort
of get into this cycle of trying to think about what I would do,
like, what would, hey, dude, doing to make this video.
What would he do in this video? And it's like, well that's me.
Hey dude is just the name for me when I make sure you know so
ultimately I should just be making the things that occurs to
me to make but I'm sort of turning in on myself or I keep
thinking about what You know, I'm sort of watching myself.
Watch myself, make stuff Minds me of a quote, by a German
philosopher whose last name was Mahler.
He wrote in a letter to his brother.
He wrote, I begin to think of the situation in which I find
myself and I even think that I think of it and divide myself,
into an infinite series of retrogressive eyes that consider
each other endlessly. I do not know what which I just
Pat as the actual and indeed, the moment I do there is another
ayat that stops. IT it I become dizzy as if
looking to the bottom of a black abyss, right?
Those eyes, like I don't know which I to stop at is the actual
me because there's always another me watching me and also
a smaller also the playwright Mahler.
Or is that a different Mall? The reason I didn't say.
Their first name is because there are so many fucking
mahler's and I just heard it quoted as smaller, it was in the
making. Of the atomic bomb.
Actually, interestingly enough, I heard a quote in that book.
Yeah, I definitely I feel that I need to sort of get back to why
I started doing this in the first place.
Are you like, I don't know, are you?
Do you feel like you're you feel like it's burn out or do you
feel it more of like, it's like, now you're thinking too hard or
is it a combination both know? Well, I don't think it's
burnout. I think it's well, I mean yes I
think it's a form of burnout but I don't think it's a burnout and
this 8 and in the sense that it's like terminal, you know,
it's more burnout in a certain realm in a certain direction,
but I should also note that I have an off my antidepressants
for like two weeks and so I made a video about this but my rules
for when I'm off my ended depressants, because I run out
and I can't get an appointment, or my psychiatrist goes into
private practice or whatever, you know, there are periods of
time when you when I can't get my into the presence, my rules
for those times are Hydrated, Andy food, just because my brain
will look for any excuse to find everything.
Awful and being hungry, or being thirsty is really just
ammunition for it. To is distractions, 3 is lower
the bar, but for is, don't make any decisions, don't make any
major decisions because my brain chemistry, when I'm off, my meds
is such that my brain feels a certain way.
Just feels a certain way and we'll look for any line of
reasoning to Five that. So if my brain just feels shitty
because my chemicals are all balanced and it's going to look
for reasons that it find that it that it's shitty.
So it's like, oh I hate doing this and I hate doing that.
And you know, my office is too cramped in my, you know, I wish
I was taller, you know, it's just gonna look for anything to
believe that it's wrapping. There's that it's thinking that
way rationally when in fact, it's just a chemical imbalance.
So a lot of my feelings on this like I'm giving.
I'm deliberately giving voice to that because I think it's
Necessary to give voice to that but it's also useful.
Remember that? That's just a voice.
That's not me. So anyways, yes, I think it's a
kind of burnout, but I think it's also chemically induced
because I'm off my meds. But I also think it's a really
healthy kind of burnout because in a lot of ways if difficult,
because I think it's important to remember.
That like the point of life for me at least is to try to live a
pleasant one. This try to enjoy your days,
whatever that looks like, you know, working with horses or
mountain climbing like what is the thing that you would rather
be doing and try to make your life about doing those things.
And also doing that is very much aided by recognizing things that
you don't like things that you don't like being parts of your
days. For example, I fucking hate
emails. Hate him so much.
So in this period where I'm sort of again like turning in on
myself and I'm trying to sort of Jeff Goldblum in the fly it, you
know like try to catalog what's happening and take record of
what's happening and take record of the things that I
particularly hate and take records of the things that I
particularly like so yeah. I think it's kind of burnout but
it's useful perhaps necessary and also I'm off my meds so
grain of salt I mean do you feel like I don't want to speak for
you? Do you feel a certain cyclical
like watching yourself? Watch yourself as you make on?
What content would Katie asaurus?
Make like idea, how are you feeling now, great?
Honestly, I mean, I'm in like a weird reverse foot boat, where
I'm getting on meds mmu meds and so which I just remembered I
forgot I'm doing great. Um, I don't know, like, I guess
like, my thing is, I spent a lot of time worrying about what I'm
supposed to be doing, like, like a lot of time worrying about,
like, what I'm supposed to be doing, like what is the right
optimal thing to be doing right now?
And so I'm moving like and I'm telling this really badly but
because like, my problem is, you know, you're like, well, what do
you want to be doing? And I'm like, I want to be
asleep. I want to just be asleep.
I want to be asleep all the time.
That's what I want to be. I want to be asleep.
Beep. But you do have to answer
emails, occasionally, you have to make a podcast because that's
what people are supporting you to do, you know?
And so I tried really good day. I came up with this idea.
I was like, I know what I'm going to do, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna add lower lower my standards.
I feel like I put a lot of pressure on myself to be like,
super productive every day. So I was like, I'm going to, I'm
going to lower lower the bar and put less pressure on myself and
For a month. That was my goal was for a
month. I'm going to if I do one thing I
do. One thing that like furthers my
career or if one thing you know if I send some emails or I make
a Tick-Tock ER I edit a YouTube video.
That's my one thing that's great then I'm done.
Then I don't have to worry about anything else for the rest of
the day and that lasted literally one day it was one day
and I just, I could not stomach and deal with the idea that I
had so much other stuff that I could be doing.
Or I should be doing or selling myself I should be doing so and
I was so uncomfortable. Like I just I couldn't I could I
literally could not bear it in a very over dramatic way of saying
it but like I just couldn't do it so I gave up on that idea and
that was after the idea I had before that which was like block
time where it's just like okay 9:00 to 10:00 is emails, 10:50
is content like that kind of thing.
And so like I just I can't find, I can't find a solution, I can't
find a way and I think part of it is just the nature of the
work. I think because it's like, why I
hate the word content? Because content can be anything.
And so it's like the idea of just shit something out because
like, you're supposed to be making, I hate that heat that.
So I don't know. I'm just really frustrated and
like, I feel like, in some ways, I've said everything that I ever
want to ever say about ADHD, but also, it's really important to
me to keep educating and keep advocating and keep teaching.
But also like I don't know, I'm just in this like weird and I
think a lot of it too is also chemical but I'm I really am
really having a hard time with content.
I'm really having a hard time literally getting out of bed in
the morning. And now I've got this like
Health stuff going on which dear listeners, I will tell you about
more later as more develops, but they think maybe teaser trailer.
They think maybe they figured out what's been going on with
me. But if they did then, oh boy is
going to be a whole thing and so, yeah.
And I was just, you know, like I was looking at my schedule today
because I had a friend who was like, hey we should do a thing
and I was like yeah great when you know like let's look at a
date and like the first date that I was like looking at was
like December 17th or 18th. Was like my first like, okay.
This is a day that I could do this thing on and that's just
like, it's just a lot. It's just a lot all the time.
Yeah, I'm tired. And I'm tired and I love this
work. And I feel bad because I feel
like at some point. All I do anymore is I just like
go on the podcast and complain. But like I am having a really
hard time. I'm having a really fucking hard
time and it sucks and it's like I feel the burn out.
I feel the massive weight of like the expectations that I put
on myself, but then I'm also sitting here, III, watching,
myself and just going like well what are you?
You're literally living the dream like you literally.
I have the best job in the entire world it to do, you know,
your job fucking rules. So why are you so selfish to
complain about it? You know and I feel bad and then
I'm like okay well I just need to work harder than you know and
so I don't know. I no idea what I'm doing.
Yeah me neither. Yeah and I just, I don't know.
Yeah, I think the, you know, that feeling of there's always
something I'm supposed to be doing this in my water, because
it was the only way I was going to drink it.
So if you hear ice on the podcast, Cast.
I'm sorry. No, it's good.
I'm back I'm doing I'm calling it now.
Every time you hear ice in the podcast to hydration check there
we go. No I can only have to worry
about it because I was like I said the only way I'll drink
water is if it's super cold. So I apologize for nothing right
now because this is just what I need to get through right now.
Please, I love ice water. So much water was a game changer
to me when I was like, whoa, because water is just so boring
but then you just do a little, some little thing.
Yeah. You know it's a good like the
me. Oh and you like but the me oh
yeah many of like super cool like 40 water.
Yeah. I think one of his first term is
that idea of was always something I should be doing and
for me I never fucking know what it is.
It until until I am lying in bed going to sleep at night.
That I know exactly what I should have been doing.
Well no. But I mean will you settle your
know I'm living the dream and frankly?
Yeah like every part of this is amazing when I think of it like
on paper like wow if I today like decided for the rest of the
day I just wanted to make stuff out of aluminum cans, just make
cool stuff, watch YouTube or whatever and sit there just kind
of make a video and post it like that would be a really
productive. So my time you know and that's
all I ever want to be doing is sitting make a little crafty B
but like I don't know if this is like an American thing, I feel
like it kind of is in some ways but I always feel like if I'm
enjoying it that it's not work you know like my work is
supposed to be miserable and so my brain one Thanks, if I'm
enjoying myself, then I'm wrong. I'm doing so I'm not being
productive. But also then if what's the
praising here? It my brain then also assumes
that if it is productive, then it must be unpleasant.
So when I realized I go, I could make stuff out of tin cans all
day. That be amazing, that would be
productive. My brain goes, oh, it's
productive. That means you must hate it
because we're sort of trained to believe that work is supposed to
be awful, which is ridiculous. And as soon as I do is actually
start doing the thing like quickly, remember that?
I like it. Yeah, it's weird.
I just like, I don't know, I'm gonna like, I'm also having this
like moment which hashtag radical honesty but like, one of
the things that I've really been working on in therapy, and this
is something that is very common with neurodivergent people who
perhaps struggled to fit in as kids, very common experience.
Is that you just sort of start. I don't do same asking but like
Masking / morphing yourself into being the person that the people
who are around you want to be with, right?
So, like as like a survival mechanism, as a defense
mechanism, you're like, oh, you guys are into Star Wars.
I fucking love Star Wars. Star Wars is my favorite movie.
Um but what happens is that you get really good at that, you
could really good at whoever you're with whatever situation
you are in. You become this like expert
chameleon. Which in some ways is excellent,
because it means that you're very fun at parties and it means
that you have a lot of like really, you know, you know, you
can have a conversation with anybody, that's great, amazing.
What it also means is that you wind up as a fucking 34 year old
adult who has no idea what you actually like, or what you
actually enjoy doing or if you like Star Wars or not.
You know, and that's weird. That's weird to like be in a
place of, and I think being a content creator has really
Really made me start confronting that in a way that I never
really expected because, like, it's my content.
I get to decide what I want. When I want to do it, you know,
do I want to sit down and make stuff out of tin cans or, you
know, do I want to go research, whatever, and the more that I
have that freedom and the more that I have that flexibility,
the more that I realized, like, I don't know.
What I like, I don't know what I dislike.
I mean, I know what I dislike. I just like sauces.
I know, fundamentally to my soul, I dislike a sauce but
like, there's just so much stuff where I'm just like, I have no
idea. Like I have no actual idea and
then the more that I try and figure that out, then it's like,
okay, well that should be content.
So becomes this like weird Catch-22 of like I'm trying to
like, do the work But my job is content and work is content and
so it becomes this like cyclical thing.
We're like, I'm never really getting anything out of anything
because I'm either Turning it into content.
So I don't get to actually like live the experience or I'm
living the experience and feeling guilty because I'm not
making it content. Yeah.
And both of those things are I think disastrous to Anybody's
well-being. And also like, why am I talking
like this? Like, I've never once talked,
like this on the podcast and I'm doing this weird like NPR like
pretentious interview voice. Like, what are we?
What are we doing here? This is Jonas into the void.
Like, I just was like, why are you saying it like that?
That's a weird. Let's it, one of my favorite
things like that, where I just thought I was like, fuck.
That's really how to think of that was in.
It wasn't in Bo Burnham's inside, it was in.
Thing he posted on YouTube. That was all the app takes like,
yeah, which was also I mean it required reading.
If you think you've seen inside that, you haven't seen the thing
that Bo Burnham posted on this YouTube channel is yeah,
watching good. Yeah, but he did a bit in that
where it's like our YouTube reaction thing.
So there's a little thumbnail, the little picture in picture on
the corner and he's sitting there and he's watching.
I can't remember what the original thing was, but he was
sort of doing like a parody of a YouTube reaction.
Yeah. Then, at a certain point after
about a minute, suddenly, the original frame of him with the
little picture, picture becomes the picture-in-picture, I
thought you, I thought that was in the original, maybe it wasn't
the original inside. Yeah, so hit the original thing
of him, reacting is now the picture-in-picture and so, but
it's fluid, it's one solid thing.
So it was it was all one take clearly it set it up so that
whatever he did after a minute, would then become the thing and
it would create a new. And so, Starts reacting to him,
reacting to the thing. He's like, oh yeah, so I thought
of this bit, I just thought it was really interesting how, you
know, such a phenomenon and YouTube and there's always
certain beats that always appear in all of them.
I kind of want to do a riff on that and then that becomes the
picture-in-picture. And so now he's respond reacting
to himself, reacting to himself, reacting to himself.
So on, he goes, oh yeah, well I kind of wanted to make this bit
more meta. We're like, you know, I was
commenting on, you know, because I didn't think the parity was
good enough to stand alone. So I thought if I then reacted
to it would be like a double, you know, bit kind of thing
where I was bidding on the bit and then it happens again
picture-in-picture. And now there's five or six or
whatever it is iterations and he goes yeah, this point I was just
really insecure about the bit like I didn't know where it was
going. And so I just sort of started
throwing more layers at it and it keeps happening like eight or
nine iterations. And every time he has to keep
getting more and more abstract of like I've always feared that
you know, people didn't think that I knew Actually, what I
was, you know, it just starts getting more abstract.
Anyways, that's what it's like all the time.
Yeah, it's just watching myself, watch myself.
I mean, I literally watch myself all day long.
Like I like, I've, it's weird because you, like, sit on to it
for like three, four hours, you're watching yourself
holding, you know, you're making the video.
You're watching each constantly watching yourself.
Yeah, not to mention. If you're gonna, you know,
notification, whatever somebody commented on your Tick, Tock in
order to see that comment in the thread, you have to go to your
video. So you're watching the video
you're watching. Watching, you know, you're just
like weird. Like yeah, it's just like and
it's I don't know. Like it's just it's such a
unique. Place to be in especially when
you're maybe not necessarily doing great.
That's culture-wise watching it in the end.
Yeah there's also the urge to publicize it, you know, I always
whenever I get really like I have a really bad depressive
episode, I always think like Jeff Goldblum in the fly like
just take account of what's Happening Here and I do that
occasionally, we're all just be really depressed and I'll just
say like This is what this feels like this is what?
Because a lot of people like, for example, my dad who doesn't
have depression is married to my mom who does have depression and
they have amazingly healthy relationship that I'm very lucky
to have been hard like, you know, around for but But he
doesn't know what it's actually like to have depression.
Similarly, he has ADHD. My mom doesn't and so of course,
she does everything she can to like care for me but she all she
doesn't ultimately known. So, any time I'm really in a in
the thralls of either my ADHD or my depression, there's always
this urge to like publicize it try to try to get some good for
some people out of it. Yeah.
But you can always do that. Sometimes you're too fucking
depressed right now. But also when you said, you
know, the chameleon thing, I got me thinking about something, my
dad said, so my dad was a professor pressed to a lot of
students and it was a pretty common thing that a student
would come up to him during office hours or something and
say, hey I actually fucking hate journalism.
I never want to do it. I wasn't blind.
Enter making me and he had this sort of speech about it or he
would say about us about people in general that were all an
amalgam of other people's expectations.
And he would, sort of say that as, like a truth, like old like
everybody on a fundamental level, that's just sort of what
we are, but I don't think that's the case.
I think that's an option of being an amalgam, everybody's
else's expectations and I think for me, I think a big sort of
goal is to not be. That is to be aware perhaps in
other people's expectations and aware of my own expectations,
but just sort of capital B Be Then try to please everybody
because especially in this line of work and I feel like we
talked about this line of work. So this cut out guys has gotten
very meta but I lost my train of thought and be among everybody
else expectations. Oh my God.
Like totally. I'm hungry.
But if you are really feeling. Oh yeah.
Because If you continue like, I know you actually do like Star
Wars. But like, let's just pretend you
didn't actually like Star Wars and you just prefer.
I know that's not the case. But let's just pretend if you
didn't like Star Wars and you profess to constantly and when
people, you know, send you Star Wars stuff, you make a video
wedding. Oh my God.
So and so sent me this cool thing and that's going to mean
more people are going to send you stuff and you're going to
make more reaction videos. People things that people send
you which will make more people send you more stuff, pretty
soon. You get invited on panels to
talk about Star Wars. You get to, you know, pretty
soon you're getting invited to go to the bippity boppity
premiere of the Shmoop at each map for Star Wars or something.
But the more we leaned into that chameleon nests, the more, the
more we're in it, you know, if you like, let's if I were
pretending don't you know the more ADHD content I make the
more people expect it each D content from me.
The more crafting Hudson, they make the more people expect.
Crafting content for me and that's why.
I think it's so important to recognize the things that we
don't like in life and what we don't want in our lives because
chances are the more you we do, the things that we don't like a
now I'm not talking about the necessary things like you know,
taking out the trash. I mean, you know, I don't know.
I mean I mean trying to satisfy other people's expectations over
and over and over again will eventually just breed more of
that. Tation from other people,
whereas if we're sort of caught on true to ourselves, the only
expectations that are going to grow and things that we would
want to be expected from us things that we like also Bailey,
you can you can be in the podcast next time.
Promise. Okay.
I feel bad Bill. He's bluffing.
Yeah, it's a comment and be a podcast dog.
Give me a podcast on gets a whole thing, right?
Like podcast dogs. Phillies.
I just had a little image of the little cartoon us with our
headphones in the mics on. And we're recording the podcast.
And Bailey is also at the table with a mic and said, really,
that's what? Well, because we didn't have
Billy when we did our first promo shot.
That's true. Yeah, I guess we didn't.
We have the opportunity to be like that thing with the dogs
holding cards. I was like, all right buddy,
this is just become a discussion of our dog, very serious fuckin
Shake. He probably does have to go out.
She is then she's been, she's been being gone real hard on the
one you want. And then we go and she just
can't stand stare. And she's like, buffets, she's
not used to fall. Whether he doesn't know what to
do with it. That's true.
Hey buddy, no hot iPod. I mean, I don't know, I think
like ultimately end of the day, I think.
It's I think one of the things that I always really get in my
head about is when we're doing shows like this where we're just
being more like sort of honest about our experience.
This isn't like who is this for? No is this for us?
You know is it's just like a weird, I don't know.
Like catharsis then I think you're right.
Like I think it I think it is in some ways like I think it's
important to just kind of Jeff Goldblum it, you know?
And just say hey this is my experience because I think one
of the worst Parts about Being in this headspace is feeling
alone in it, you know? Yeah, like watching, you know,
because I have a lot of friends. I have a lot of friends who were
like creators now and podcasters now and stuff.
And I feel like they never struggle, you know, they never
struggle, like, mmm. Never struggles to make a
podcast. I'm just makes their of our
cast, and it's good every time, you know, and it's like, but I
know that there has to be a struggle, you know?
And so like I suppose the moral do this episode is it's okay if
you're struggling because You're not alone except if you're
Bailey. I don't know what you're doing,
but I'm just gonna let you be alone in that meeting.
So I guess, amazing, I suppose in closing because this dog is
about to eat this entire room. Stephen Fry said, I think we all
sort of feel that is, if before we were born, there was a class
in which, how to be a person how to live was taught, and
everybody went to that class, but we didn't.
We had a dentist appointment, there was no class.
Nobody fucking nuts. And I think that's, that's the
sort of North Star for me. He is just we're here we have
these set of days that we get to wake up and then go to sleep
for. We don't know how many of them
there are this. Try to fucking enjoy doing
stuff. You know.
Just try to enjoy doing stuff. Whatever the fuck that is.
You're not supposed to do anything.
Just don't hurt anybody. You're out what that is.
But all right, we're going to go.
Take our lovely dog out but we do.
Hey, remember to drink some water today.
Remember to take Meds, remember to eat a snack.
Remember to be kind to yourself, remember to be kind of others.
I remember that. We love you.
I see you on Thursday and Thursday.