Hey everybody, it's me Katie asaurus and welcome back to
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And now with that on with the show, So before we go into this,
I think one of the things that was like the most interesting
for me to realize was that I spent like so long talking about
executive dysfunction that I feel like it is very important
to note that like the opposite of dysfunction is function.
And so like as we're having these conversations like like
it's important to keep in mind that like not, every person is
going to have the same type of dysfunction.
And also, sometimes your functions just function and
that's okay too. That made a lot more sense in my
head and then I said it out loud and I'm now filled with regret
anyway. So Eric talked to us about
executive function know, I think I know what you and I know what
you mean. I think that's, that's a good
thought to hold in mind, like, going forward, I totally know
what you mean. So what executive, the executive
functions of your brain are essentially two sets of
Processes that dictate what you should be doing at any given
time. It's like, I think of it as sort
of, like, the government of your brain, or like the conductor of
your brain, your brain can do, all sorts of stuff, humans can
do all sorts of stuff. We can do backflips, we can
write poems. We can forget to think of a
third thing. It's, we can do all sorts of
stuff, but we actually should be doing at any given time, what
our priorities should be, how long we should spend on.
What we're doing. Those are dictated by the sets
of processes in our heads that we call.
We Referred to as executive functions and executive
dysfunction is when those things aren't good, if they're not good
at prioritizing, they're not good at figuring out.
What what should be going on at any given time?
It's executive dysfunction comes with time, blindness.
It comes with an inability to allocate resources.
Both time and energy. So basically executive
dysfunction is the inability to decide and settle on what you
should be doing at any given time.
In a bunch of different ways. Yeah.
Well, there's actually seven, Eric, did you know that there
are so I was given five. I'm alright.
I'm behind you. I'm behind you.
That's, that's okay. So the so like the sort of seven
types that they like they Define and sometimes they combine a
couple of these, which is where you might get five.
And I have seven, I just read I think like a different couple of
articles that you did. But so basically like the the
sort of seven types of functions, the seven types of
executive function that we talked about, Out, our self
awareness self restraint, which sometimes get rolled into one
and then non verbal working memory, and verbal, working
memory, with which also, sometimes get just get rolled
into like, working memory and then emotional regulation
self-motivation and planning and problem-solving which also
sometimes get rolled into one or they divide them out.
So just kind of depends on like, who is explaining executive
function in the article that you're reading.
But I It's really interesting because, like, for really long
time, I just thought executive function was like, you either
had it or you didn't. And I didn't realize that there
were like so many different types, but I mean, it totally
makes sense because it's like, your brain is doing so many
interesting and complex and nuanced processes at all times.
Of course, self-awareness is going to be a very different
thing than working memory. Like, of course, like one person
might be really great with Like remembering stuff, but not be
great with self-motivation. And so, as we're having these
conversations, like, they're there are so many different ways
in which executive dysfunction, sort of manifests and shows up,
and it's because there are so many different component
processes that are like happening in your brain.
All at the same time with any given task with any given thing
that you're trying to accomplish.
And I think that is very interesting.
Yeah, absolutely. Going to ask what?
Are. Yeah I was gonna your phone
rang. It was great when I turn that
off buddy. Okay, okay.
All right. I don't even know how this is
the. This is your old burner phone.
I don't know how to do it. You just gonna keep you.
You gotta, you push the button on the side.
And then you go, you put in the code.
Yep. Or you could just turn it off
that also, where it's going to turn it out.
That's what I'm gonna do and this is all really generic.
This is really good podcasting. That's right.
Well actually, I really, I wanted to ask you what parts of
executive function? Like components of executive
dysfunction. Do you have the hardest time
with? Oh, man.
I think that changes like there's some days when I have a
really hard time with like time blindness and sometimes whenever
really hard time with like working memory but like on the
whole which ones would you say like if you could Thanos snap
your problems with these are you know those parts of executive
dysfunctions away which would they be?
Um I mean I think for me a lot of my circles are with working
memory and motivation because I like one of my kind Kind of
shitty superpowers is my ability to like plan and problem-solve.
But that also is really interesting because you know,
like I'm getting I'm going to rush into doing this new project
because of my lack of impulse control and I'm excited or
whatever. But then it's like, oh I didn't
plan ahead and so it's like is that impulse control?
Is that a lack of planning like you know, does that like which
category does that fall into would like you know, I Knock
over seven cups of coffee because I was too busy to clear
the floor before I built the Ikea shelf or whatever, you
know. So there's there's a lot of
overlap and that's one of the challenges about talking about
executive function, is that you can take any task taking a
shower doing the dishes, you know putting together an Ikea
shelf and there are so many different minor tiny processes.
Within each of those like tasks that you could honestly study
any of them as like a larger commentary on Executive function
as a whole. And I think that's I just keep
saying, I think that's interesting but I think
Executive function is fascinating.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Because it's one of those things were, you know, if you you it
doesn't matter what you're capable of doing because your
executive dysfunction is what you act, dictates what you
actually do. Yeah.
And so, I can, you can spend all the time in the world learning
to to write really well or sing really well or whatever it is.
But if you never actually get there, if you can't organize
your your everything enough to actually do that when it
matters, then it all kind of feels movement.
Which I think I mean when I think of executive dysfunction I
don't think about behavioral problems or time management.
Although I mean of course those are things that are highly
relevant but my immediate Thought is immense, frustration.
When I think, when I hear the term executive function, when I
think the term executive dysfunction, I think of anger,
and I think a frustration at myself because I experienced
that so unbelievably frequently and incessantly because you, but
I want to stress that in, like every single article that I read
in preparation for this, this podcast, one of the things they
talked about was that handling frustration Is in fact in
executive function and many people with ADHD, have such a
low frustration tolerance that it like it becomes like a
vicious circle of exactly. Yeah, dysfunction.
And I'm just like, come the fuck on, man.
I know it's insane. I mean I think my two really big
ones are time management and time management working memory.
Are my two really big ones and I don't know, like, if an outside
Observer / were to you know study me for a month you know to
watch my behavior. Perhaps don't those aren't
actually the two biggest things that affect my day-to-day life
but those are certainly the ones that I get hit on the in the
face. With the most, the ones that
immediately frustrate me and make me mad like so.
So for all this week we have we have the YouTube content that
needs to go up. We have two extra podcasts to
edit for the next week we have a bunch of like you and I both of
our twitch streams. Need a bunch of like editing and
clickety-clack surrounds. That they work in tandem with
like the light. There's all sorts of stuff going
on and any part of it is useful to work on but what should be
what I should be working on a given time?
What are at least what? I feel I should be working on
and it has given time changes on a, the bed on about 25 seconds,
which I made a video about this, a tick tock about this.
Ironically, when I was supposed to be doing something else,
what? Because because Was an ADHD
person has executive dysfunction.
It's a ADHD is a disorder of the executive functions so when an
ADHD person is doing something I want to I want to speak for
every single ADHD person. But it seems that this
experience is very common is certainly omnipresent for me,
but the list of priorities are constantly shifting around.
If you have a list of a bunch of stuff to do, highest priority
thing, I'm going to start working on that.
And if I can get over the lack of Gov of Engagement that comes
with executive function. If I can start working on the
thing, I only have about 10 seconds 15 seconds before Asgar
going away. Before I realize actually that
isn't the most important thing to do.
This other thing is the most important thing to do.
So I'll switch to that because of course because you know, like
any reasonable person you want to be doing the most important
thing. So I'll switch to that second
thing and I'll start working on that second thing.
And then all of a sudden about 15 seconds later, oh actually no
no, no, no working on that right now is a terrible idea, you
should be working on this other thing, that's way more important
and the cycle continues and the cycle continues.
So then the options become, you can either always be working on
the most important. Important thing or what you feel
is the most important thing like any reasonable person would but
then never get anything done because that what that is never
stays the same long enough for you to actually complete the
task or you can accept that you're not, you know, you could,
you could basically constantly be working on what you believe
to be a lower priority thing and live in that anxiety of.
Oh my gosh, there's something terribly important that I should
be doing right now that I'm not doing but then actually get
something done because that's It takes in order to buckle down
and focus on the test. I have to accept that I know
Midway through doing this task. I'm going to realize that
there's something far more important that I actually should
be doing that. I'm not doing, but I have to
just let that go otherwise. I'll never, I'll never settle on
a task. I'll just keep bouncing and
bouncing and bouncing and never get anything done in the fury
that I feel at myself and the anger that I feel it myself in
the frustration and anxiety. I mean, it's absolutely Bonkers
because there's always, I always, there's always the
chance that that thing that you think of that's actually more
important than the thing that you're working on actually, is
more important. A broken clock is right, twice a
day. And so there's that fear of, oh
my gosh, what if this is the time that I'm right?
But I have to not, I can't go down that line.
Because as soon as I do, as soon as I start following the chain
of my constantly, shifting priorities, I'm gonna get 2% of
everything that I'm doing done, and never finish any of it and
not hit any of my deadlines and then, the world will explode.
Well, it's funny that you said that because I pulled this quote
because it's a pretty famous quote about ADHD at this point,
but Russell Berkeley who is like kind of like one of the foremost
athd dudes said about executive dysfunction, he said it is not
that the individual does not know what to do.
It is that somehow it does not get done.
That is and I love that quote because I feel like that's the
that's one of the most. Most common questions that I get
asked all the time. It's like that activation and
the focus. It's the, how do I start a task?
How do I motivate myself to do the task?
How do I get stuff done? And a lot of times, I don't have
a good answer because I struggle with the same thing.
Like, I absolutely struggle to start the task, you know?
And and do I have a perfect system?
No, like a lot of X. I don't start the task or I put
the task off or, you know, whatever.
And the fact that a lot of that is rooted in executive
dysfunction and it's not Something be like, it's not
something wrong with me. It's not something wrong with
the person who can start the task.
It's just a inherent issue. Like it, how your brain
functions that was. That was kind of
earth-shattering. The first day that I learned
that because that was one of the first times that I really
started to think about like, oh, maybe I'm not broken, maybe
maybe. I'm that maybe there's not
something inherently terribly, you know?
No, wrong with who I am. It's just my brain works
differently and I don't know, I don't know where I was going
with that, but that makes me think of something we talked
about with burritos, an idiot. See when they were on the
podcast. Way, back when we talked about
mental neutrality. Yeah.
How if you're in a position where you don't like your brain,
you don't like yourself going from there to self-love is a
huge dump. Yes, you're going from one end
of the spectrum, all the way to the other.
And so just getting to the middle, just getting to
neutrality about yourself is perhaps the first step and I
would argue necessary, in fact. Yeah.
Because in order to understand in order to sort of to love
something, it helps to know what it is.
And I think viewing viewing, you know, whatever issues are going
on with your brain, in a subjective way.
And, and thinking I I hate them. I don't like them, I wish they
weren't. So how dare I be this terrible
person that I am or whatever? That's not useful in terms of
solving a problem at all and being objective about it and
thinking okay what is actually going on here is I think of an
essential first step towards loving who you actually are not
loving this idea of who you could be, but realizing who you
are now such to accept them and go.
Okay, that's who I am. That's cool.
I was skeptical. No, I don't.
I don't look Scott. I mean maybe I do.
That's probably what my face looks like right now because I'm
disappointed. I was I was looking forward to
digging down effect. No, no, I mean what I was going
to say was I was gonna save this till the end because I wanted to
talk about like okay well executive dysfunction is
problem, how do we fix it? But one of the things that I've
been thinking about a lot is like, how often The, the
solution that we have, has nothing like the the actual
solutions that are offered by experts and therapists and all
of these things. If you look, it kind of has
nothing to do with you. And I think that's really
interesting. What does it mean?
Well, so like, I mean they talked a lot about like, okay.
So you have executive dysfunction, how do you fix it?
And there are some people who say like cognitive behavioral
therapy or just you know, like psychology or Or whatever.
Like they're they're all these different sort of like mental
things. But a lot a lot of the
suggestions about how to overcome executive dysfunction
is about your environment. It has nothing to do with your
brain and I think that says something profound about how
executive dysfunction works, right?
Because for some people like it's so extreme that things like
Patient or therapist or that kind of thing can like help you
define systems and and work around, you know, certain things
for a lot of people like executive dysfunction, kind of
just like a process that like runs in the background at all
time. That is kind of like a but
doesn't necessarily like profoundly affect in a way.
We're like therapy is going to solve the problem.
So the suggestions are things like Post-it notes, or signs or
It lists or apps or clocks or alarms.
And and so it's never, it's this kind of like I like, I don't
know what I'm trying to say, but I think it says something
profound about executive dysfunction that in none of the
reading that I've ever done. Has anybody ever been like, oh,
here's how you. Hi, here's how you fix yourself.
It's always cures, how to, like, put up some Post-it notes and a
clock. Lock in order to assist yourself
because this shit is not going away.
Like you just got to build the system and I think that's Hugely
important and yeah, like be implications of that are very
interesting. I actually did just last night,
I was listening to this podcast called the weekly wuxia.
I think they're much bigger than we are so high, but they're
gonna hear this but they gave on one of their like, they do these
little tiny episodes on one of them, they talked about.
One of the tips for overcoming executive function, was actually
that it was internal No, it was not.
How do you alter your environment such to such to I
suppose mediate the effects of your executive dysfunction?
But how do you actually start to overcome it?
And it's something that whenever something like this comes up my
whole brain, sort of freaks out which is very telling and
something I need to unpack. But what they recommended was
this concept of healing your inner child.
I probably was my sorry. I shouldn't have It at that, I
paused. So you could I know it's okay.
But the idea being that there are deep-seated reasons for a
lot of different things in ways that we behave, including
trauma, including positive reinforcement, negative
reinforcement all sorts of things going on.
And so, Rather than sort of rather than you know,
temporarily altering your environment, such to
momentarily, overcome your executive dysfunction, the
longer-term work is sitting and searching within yourself and
going. Why is it that?
Whenever I look at my bed and go, I need to make my bed my
whole body thinks I'm going to die.
Why is that? Why is it that if I have a work
project that's due tonight at midnight, my whole body, freaks
out and things like everybody's Gonna Hate.
Two if you don't get this done and nobody's ever gonna like you
ever again and you're going to be fired, you're going to live
on the street. Why is that the case for me?
What happened to did? Something happen did a my is
there a cyclical thought going on and doing that work is
terrifying but it's perhaps some of the work that needs to be
done. Hey everybody.
You did it. Congratulations.
You made it to the middle of the episode.
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Okay. I feel like I fundamentally
disagree in like a way that like, I've never disagreed with
you before, and I think maybe just think it might depend on
like the sources that you're looking at.
I posted I'm not saying that I fully stand behind an advocate
for everything this but I just never thought of that.
So I thought it was I thought it was necessary to bring up.
No, no. I mean I think it's super valid
and I think that there is a lot of a lot of folks with ADHD
Carry a lot of trauma for like a lot of different things like
especially people like me who have like late diagnosis but
like executive function is just a process in our brain and so
like, I like I really feel like I'm not qualified to talk about
this. Like I feel like I need to just
stop because like I like from like I listen to that and I go
my inner child has nothing to do with the the fact that like I
struggled to like, Organize tasks.
But making it about my inner child.
I feel like could almost do more damage.
Hmm. Because instead of like creating
a solution and creating a system, I'm now worried about
like I don't like I don't know, I really do feel like it was
just not talking because I feel like I'm gonna die.
Yeah, I totally totally know what you mean, I think because
on the whole we're at it's on at its core executive dysfunction
is a fault. In fundamental processes that
occur in your brain. There aren't their nature.
They're not nurture as far as we know, but perhaps they can be
Amplified and made worse by external factors.
And so, perhaps, my time blindness is a certain level of
bad. But because of, you know,
because of all the times I was, you know, my my I don't give my
call my parents in front of the whole class and tell them why I
was late in high school or something like that.
Perhaps that made it even worse and that can be sort of unpacked
and reduce pressures because well because ultimately, I think
you're right. These are cognitive processes
that we're talking about here. These are these are literal
things occurring in your brain that can't necessarily be have
thought of It's just so weird because like, I just like and
one of the reasons why like I feel like the the gifted and
talented Ravenclaw and me is just screaming because I can't
find, I cannot find a consistent answer, really depends on who
you look at. Because in some of the research
that I read, it's like, it's all systems.
It's all Post-it notes and clocks and, and white boards,
and, and phone alarms. And then some people say, like,
no, it is, is like trauma work, it is, you know, Cognitive
behavioral stuff. It's learning how to have like
and so it's like it's really weird how there's like no
consistent answer and I think maybe that is the answer is that
it really varies person to person and some people have had
better structures and a better environment and better coping
mechanisms to begin with. And so they don't have that like
additional like sort of like latent trauma that other people
might have that can absolutely Lutely impact your executive
dysfunction. Oh absolutely not.
I mean like maybe that is the answer but I just want I won my
brain wants it to be very black and white.
But problem with talking about any sort of like neurodivergent
e is like there's literally no such thing as black and white.
But I just I just want the answer, like, is it systems or
is it counseling? Or is it therapy or is it boat
like what is it? What fixes it but then also,
that is like, there's not a fix. There is a a Adapting and
building and and living with and managing.
But there's not like a magic button that you push and then
one day you wake up and you have time management skills like it's
really hard. You know.
Oh yeah. And I think I think every
instance of for me personally, I think every time when I can
directly recognize executive dysfunction and pairing my
performance on a thing, every time I can recognize this This
initial fundamental structural thing, like, the fact that I
actually had, don't know how much time has passed, or the
fact that this task that I'm working on that.
You know, a minute ago, I thought was the most important
task. I now no longer think is the
most important test? It's actually, this other thing,
those sort of basic occurrences. But then immediately after that
builds, frustration and anger and anxiety, and wish that this
weren't so and those make it worse, Worse.
Yeah, it was tend to make my perception of time.
Even more flawed and those tend to make my ability to prioritize
even more tenuous or my my connection to my priorities,
even more tenuous. Yeah, and that sort of I also
want to bring up the pursuit of brings me onto my life.
I feel like what might be the next section of the podcast ad
break? And we're back.
Sorry that's I just I just made it so I have to cut that out
later. Renamed that did I really?
Yeah, sorry. Am I really loud to everybody?
But I there are a couple of things that I do that.
I think helped. I by no means want to present
myself as being somebody who has wholesale overcome, their
executive dysfunction. Because absolutely that's not
true but there are a couple of things I do that.
Help that I don't hear a spouse very often and I was wondering
if we could talk about those things for a little while if you
would be all right with that dear podcast partner.
Yeah. I'm just like I literally like
in this moment just realize how frustrated I am about this whole
last topic. Really like.
Yeah because it's like I know a lot about executive dysfunction
like I know a lot about it but this is the first time I think
that I have true. Uli ever felt out of my depth in
speaking about it because in like, that's interesting. but
like, Literally all I can focus on is like I have no idea what
I'm talking about. I didn't like I had like I have
a lot of idea what I'm talking about because like, I like I
fundamentally understand and maybe this is executive
function, I don't know. But it's like I absolutely
understand the symptoms of executive dysfunction.
Like, I understand how it manifests in people, I
understand, especially like in the ADHD brain like I Yeah, I
could talk about that. I can confidently and very
confidently, be like, okay, like let's talk about the breakdown
of a task and what executive function does in the breakdown
of that task. All of that, I've got all of
that on lock, but the minute, the minute I start talking
about, like, how do you help? I'm like, I'm not a therapist.
I'm not a counselor. I'm some fucking asshole on
Tick-Tock who talks about sex in.
ADHD and I feel so woefully under qualified that like I just
like, I don't want to talk about this anymore and so maybe that's
executive dysfunction, or maybe that's rejection sensitive
dysphoria or maybe I'm just like Not.
Okay, but like I genuinely am freaking out right now.
Like I just I want you to know that.
That is like, I'm like I'm crying, you can't tell this
because I'm the lighting is good, but I'm getting like
anxiety about talking about this, and that's very weird and
that's never happened before. So take that inner child.
Fuck you. I don't know, I don't know
what's happening. This is weird.
Gosh I'm sorry like I don't apologize.
I think this is fascinating like I don't like it's an it's the
opposite of a podcast break through to podcast breakdown.
We've gotten one of the next level.
Yeah, I don't like, I don't know why this, I think it's just
because sorry, I didn't mean to derail this.
I'm so sorry. No.
But I think it's because Like live time.
I'm realizing how frustrating it is to have to kind of accept
that sometimes there isn't one answer.
There's, it's not, like, writing a paper, right?
Like it's not like, oh, pick a topic and pick a thesis and then
you do your like there's no steps.
There's no process. It's just you and maybe a good
therapist, or some Post-it notes or a whiteboard like, trying to
like, Cope and manage but like I think sometimes I get so
resentful of having to just manage of having to just cope of
having to just have nine phone alarms and and you know, have
the Whiteboard and have the post notes that I'm like upset about
it because it's like, it's just it's always it's a, this is a
really bad example. And now, I'm just ranting and
I'm very sorry, we can cut all of this out.
If you I want but like it was like the day where I realized
that I liked might myoclonic, dystonia was not going to go
away. Like I think that's it's kind of
like that. It's like that moment where you
realize like, this isn't something you fix.
This is something you live with for the rest of your life.
And like, I don't think about that a lot.
Like, because like most of the time, like I just kind of like
exist with ADHD and depression. And and executive dysfunction is
kind of like that background process, but when we talk about
it and we bring it To the Forefront, like the anxiety.
And the, the sadness may be of like, realizing that like, oh
there's no off but there is no, there is no.
Part where like this ends. Like it's just, this, this is
what I get and like, I feel like maybe that is where some of this
is coming from is from that like moment of like, I'm always going
to struggle with tax, like I can, I can get better, I can
build systems, I can build structures, I can.
I can do cognitive behavioral therapy and and get better.
But all of that is for a baseline that other people just
wake up with in the, in the middle.
Like they just wake up in the morning and they can just go do
the thing and sometimes that is very overwhelming to me.
I think that's what I think. That's what that is.
I just work. Through that.
Just work through that right here on the podcast, I'll stop
talking now. No, Katie, I love you so much.
Oh please, you're always talking II think I I sorry I broke the
ice guest. Know you did you didn't you just
you to get changed the podcast, get you done changed it and
that's fantastic. No, that's fantastic.
I think, you know, I know the last couple times when we've
been trying to figure out what we're going to talk about, I
write up executive dysfunction a couple times.
Haven't done it until now and I think I think.
Geez. Oh my gosh.
This, I think I think it's
because part of me is doing the same thing.
Part of me is realizing that I am always going to have to work
to do, what other people wake up already doing organizing their
their, their day and their mind and, and understanding how time
passes, I'm always going to have to work hard to achieve, what
other people have is Baseline. And I think honestly there's a
there's grief in that. I'm part of me is morning.
The idea that one day, this will all be gone.
And one day, I'll be such a something person, an Uber match,
like some mental superhero, who can, who can organize their
whole day and stick to the the schedule that they written out
and made the phone calls and done the emails.
I that's never going to happen. I mean, I can get to something
that looks like that, but it's going to take A lot of work and
effort over time and that's not my strong suit because I think
part of it is genuinely grieving.
And yeah, for the freedom that I would have.
If I didn't have to deal with executive dysfunction all the
time. Also, the fact like, I don't
know if you have this but again, we fundamentally change this
entire as podcast, but like I can't, I can't stick to a
schedule, like I have been a professional stage manager for
years. Like, I'm excellent at sticking
to it. Schedule.
I'm excellent at showing up at work on time.
I'm excellent at, you know, paperwork and filing and all the
shit that like a person with ADHD is not supposed to, but the
energy cost and the expenditure and the stress of of doing that
of doing the thing that I think for a lot of people who don't
deal with executive dysfunction, come so easily.
Like, that's where I start to get really resentful.
Because it's like, yeah, I'm very successful.
I'm very good at what I do but you have no idea how much it
cost me on the back end. You have no idea.
I mean, you do like you Eric personally do but like the
proverbial, you the Royal you like they like I don't think
people see it and I think that's one of the hardest things about
having a neuro Divergence e is is weak.
When we have our shit together when we are functioning, when we
are overcoming that executive dysfunction, the huge energy
cost, the huge amount of effort that we expend just to get
through the day like a functioning, human being is so
much higher. But like, we don't we don't talk
about it a lot. We don't we don't address it a
lot, you know. Yeah, it's me, just me, just go.
Oh yeah, let's I don't know. I mean I think perhaps part of
the reason we don't address it and talk about it a lot is
because it's not just hard to talk about with other people.
It's hard to think about just with yourself within yourself.
It's hard to think about a dress because it's infuriating a lot
of the time. It's in, it's angering and it's
frustrating and it's fucking unfair.
And so, Every time I swear for the first time in a podcasting,
like, oh, we can't put clean on this episode, okay, I'm pretty
sure is going to be the one but know, I always started way
before you. It's fine, that's true.
But I think perhaps part of the reason we do talk or perhaps,
the reason I won't speak for other people.
Perhaps reason I don't talk about it is because I
immediately get really mad and really frustrated and I start
spinning out and I feel like I look like an idiot.
And And and I feel like I'm making it worse for the other
person or some reason. Like I feel like by knowing I
mean I think it's part of it is self-aggrandizing like I'm
worried that I'm going to describe it in such a
wonderfully accurate way that it's going to get worse for
them, you know. So I like I keep it to myself
because I don't want to like which is stupid.
I mean that's so like I'm not that good of a writer but part
of me is afraid of that. But I think just the amount of
energy that That it takes. I mean also.
So I haven't talked about this on the podcast yet.
I talked about it once on Tick-Tock, but I'm also an
alcoholic. And so an enormous amount of
energy spent every day for me resisting, the urge to drink
like it or not like it like half of all of my energy goes into
resist at any given time. Right?
Now, as we're recording this, I'm putting an enormous amount
of energy into not drinking and to not thinking about how I'm
going to drink. Done recording into all of it.
I won't go into the Grim details of it, but enormous amount of
energy is going into that. And so once I've got that sort
of on lock for the next minute or so I can then spend the
remaining energy trying to figure out how I'm going to
spend this next minute. An enormous amount of that is
trying to conceive of what a minute is and what can be done
in a minute. Because my understanding of time
is so shitty and we're just you just constantly as you Whittle
away at the available. Energy.
And the more neurodivergent sees you stack on top of each other,
or mental disorders, whatever you want to call on top of each
other. The smaller that margin of
available energy left is and I think through training, both in
the both in the culinary world and in the classical music
world, I've learned that well, Jesus, I think that's why.
I'm so why I care so much about efficiency.
Holy shit. I think that's why I care so
much about efficiency years have, I guess break.
This is a very lucky break through.
I mean, I don't want a cheap in that term, but maybe but a lot
of the times when I can't start a task is because I know I'm not
going to do it the most in the most efficient possible way and
I have a number ways that I deal with that but a lot of times I
don't do things because I know it's not going to be the most
efficient possible way, and I think that, This from my
perceived scarcity of ample energy of expendable energy.
And so if I only have 5% of my available energy at any given
time into the creation of things and to and to the, you know,
accepting the world as it is in giving back to it or whatever
the hell enjoying the world calling to me, then I have to
make sure that all of that energy is spent efficiently and
the idea that I don't is terrifying and it absolutely
makes my executive dysfunction worse because if I'm not going
to do it the most efficiently than I should just not do it and
spend that energy elsewhere. If I'm not going to clean my
room the most efficient possible way then I should just not clean
my room and just put fuck that and then spend my time doing
something else that I perceived to be important editing a video
or editing a podcast, or something like that.
And I had something. So I mean some of those
something or to perhaps be useful for one second, something
that I do to combat that is to just deliberately do things in
efficiently. Think like, I'm going to do this
in officially, all right. Screw it.
Like I'm just going to deliberately do this on
inefficiently and that at least gives me some semblance of like
a feeling of control but that helps a little bit.
I also want mom while I'm being useful, I suppose.
One of the biggest helpers with that is I put aside the notion
of becoming motivated. I think I hear a lot from from
people messaging me in comments on my videos and stuff and
people emailing us about getting motivated and I think Sometimes
in my response to not being motivated is to put aside the
importance of motivation to just completely table the concept of
motivation, which I believe is a Shakespearean word to table is a
verb. I don't know, why did I say that
to put that notion aside and just think how long can I do
this unmotivated? How much can I just, how long
can I white-knuckle this task doing the dishes?
So completely on, how much can I just physically force my body to
do this task for how long 15? Ends maybe, 30 seconds, whatever
it is, the smallest possible unit of time that, you know, you
can physically force yourself to do a task for, and set a timer
for that, about a time and do it for that amount of time.
So if there's a bunch of dishes and shit in your room for 30
seconds, I'm just going to experience the discomfort of
bringing those dishes back and then doing it for 30 seconds and
then at that point sometimes you might have enough momentum to
keep going. Anyways, I was talking about.
Excess energy and Expendable energy, understand stuff.
I don't know. I'm I'm just really I think I
don't want to I don't want to speak for you Katie but I think
I know you well enough to know that we're I think we're both as
we're discussing this realizing how much like I don't want to
say deeper this goes. Whoa but whoa how in the city is
this is it's it's sort of like there's that joke.
One of my favorite jokes that there are two young fish
swimming along in the ocean. When an older fish swims past
the older fish says to one of the younger fish.
Hey Hey boys. How's the water?
After a moment? The two young fish swim along
and one turns to the other and says, what the fuck is water?
I think I love that joke cetera. Thanks well, because it's to
paraphrase, David Foster Wallace, I gotta pull out my
straight white male card. Sorry, it's a thing that we
talked about do plaster walls, the purpose of that joke.
Is that the things that are the most ubiquitous in the most
consequential are, often is so ubiquitous that they take a
lifetime to even know Notice that they're there and they're
very difficult to talk about and I think my executive dysfunction
is very much that way, is it so everywhere, it's so much.
So the water that I swim through that it's hard to even identify
and talk about, it's a really, really good way to put that like
honestly Is, yeah, just the the amount of energy and focus that
it takes to just like work through the dysfunction in order
to function. A lot and like one through
molasses. Yeah.
Well and I mean like and I think like we both have exceedingly
complex sort of mitigating factors like you are an
alcoholic and I deal with chronic pain and so every day I
wake up and my hands feel like they're on fire and that takes a
lot of energy, you know, like that sucks when you're just
fucking spine, feels like it's melting out of your body and so
like the the mitigating factors make it so much More complex
because it's like, how much energy are you spending thinking
about drinking, how much energy am I stinking thinking about
like my hands? Not working, you know, and and
it's, it's it just gets to be so much sometimes that I feel like
conversations about executive function, turn into
conversations about just So much more that very quickly here
because of all the water that surrounds us all the time.
Yeah that I really like something that my mom and I do
is we've named our depression and that helps us sort of
identify it and and perhaps come to terms with it - name is
Mildred which is kind of cool. So you know, if I'm depressed as
I go Mildred's here, which is fun, it sort of adds some levity
to this. Situation.
But also I mean ultimately words are just things that I did
Circle Concepts. So that when we want to refer to
a concept, we don't have to describe it.
Every time we can go. Okay, this thing, let's call
that an elephant that thing over there.
The elephant we don't have to say that big huge thing over
there with the trunk. We can just say elephant, cool.
And so with executive dysfunction, I mean, the term
executive dysfunction already exists but that's sort of a
wordy weird thing. And if you, I mean, if you do if
you do Search, dear listener. If you do research on Executive
dysfunction, you're going to find so many different.
There's no, there doesn't seem to be like just Cannon.
Like, this is what exactly you're going to find articles
saying, the eight types of executive functions or this of
the five types of executive dysfunctions or like is ADHD
inherently part of executive dysfunction, or is it executive
function? A result of ADHD, it's a
wormhole. And so, anyways, for that
reason, I think To yourself, even not just to talk with other
people but to yourself in your own head, it's useful when you
arrive at a huge concept. That's so that's very ubiquitous
and therefore hard to talk about like like the water like water
to name it something so that you can go that because a lot of
energy gets expended just arriving at that concept again
such to sort of think of it and deal with it.
But if you can think of your executive functions as You know,
as being Stephen or something like that.
I don't know perhaps perhaps if you're great.
Accept my depression it is the name of my great actually have a
naming contest for my depression.
Oh gosh Agatha. Now that's rich.
Victorian widows name. Oh that's right.
Um far enough let's let's keep farkles Tim pure.
I like the mechanical. Stone has a lot of potential
there. Hey Eric.
You know what we never did? What's that second attended
video? Executive dysfunction.
Gosh, all right. Well, everybody that episode
turned into something very different than what we intended
and that's totally okay. And if hanging and I think kind
of awesome. I'm not, I'm not sorry.
So there you go. Katie sorry I'm not sorry so
that Nets that Net Zero but anyways yeah I don't know my
guess. I'm gonna I'm gonna sit and
think about life for a little while now.
So I feel like I need to stare into the middle distance for a
second. Yeah, me too.
All right, well, enjoy the enjoy, the outro music.
Bye everybody transition. Well everybody that's our show
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We know that this week's episode got a little bit vulnerable at
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and feel safe and supported and know that maybe somebody else
out there is feeling the same way we do, and that really means
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thinking about that this week and that we appreciate you a
lot. Oh no.
I made the closer vulnerable to that's I feel like that's
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