I love that moment when I start recording but neither of us like
you know, because we need that silence to like you don't clear
the room noise but this like this, who's got a dumb thing to
say for this just park it aside. You're doing a great job Eric's.
I think I'm doing pretty well. I made a funny noise.
Your daddy. What Hi everybody.
It's me store. It's I loaded via Google and
fresh off. My appearance on the Today Show.
Here I am slumming it on infinite Glory.
Wow, Jesus that's Katie. That's really that's really a
nice thing to say. I know about your business
partner, / Barker pleasure. Also it was on The Today Show
today. So Today, Show today, today I
was one, is the only a today. This is the Today Show The Today
Show. Today's, today's show, whatever.
Weird phone call the wake up to like my aunt just like was that
you know, it was another Kate Osborne who also talks about
ADHD on Tick Tock who has a very similar screen name to me and
looks remarkably similar. Oh shit!
Was it you? It was actually me.
Wow, I thought it was like a Paul McCartney Avril.
Lavigne type situation. What you do that?
Well. So there's this famous
conspiracy theory that Paul McCartney died and they replaced
him with a look-alike. Yeah, she wasn't.
Replaced by Avril. Lavigne.
No no. But there's also a conspiracy
theory that Avril Lavigne. Oh I thought you're saying that
Paul McCartney got released by Avril Lavigne and I was like
that would be very happy I mean, culturally he did.
Yes he even argue that ever-lovin.
Isn't the next with the new public art.
He was a boy. She was a girl and we make it
any more obvious, really proud of their truck.
Why you gotta ask me why I gotta make things.
So constipated, Katie was a Beatles boy.
She said, see you later Bowl. But yeah, there's a concern Very
that Avril. Lavigne also died and they
replaced her with imagine there being like a conspiracy theory
about you. They're probably just got it
like it definitely wouldn't like Avril Lavigne maybe like I don't
know if it's true or not but like I will be nice.
Just like out there like getting like Google searches like you
know just like is that really be dead she's like sitting in her
fucking den watching like Netflix be like no really what
are you gonna do? Like you can't stop a conspiracy
theory we got because the more you deny it the more people I
believe it started conspiracy theory about ourselves.
Oh, can you do that? I don't know.
I heard Eric is a robot. Yeah, okay, that's for in which
sure that's a really borrow. It will work will work on it.
Work on I'll work on it. No know what Kitty, I don't
know. I just knew that.
That was what we were starting to circle around to it.
Some point I was giving you enough because giving I was
trying to I was I was design T and you up should we shoot l
the, the, our dear listeners? What?
What we're going to talk about today.
Yeah. What is it was a smooth shit
I've ever seen. You do in my entire life.
Okay, thank you. I wasn't gonna say anything and
hope you didn't know. Look at you would please put?
Come on. So, I had a very interesting
thing happened to me today in that I told a brand after
agreeing to work with them that I in fact did not want to work
with them anymore because they sent me the pride, I'm not gonna
tell you. What it is, but this company
sent me a product and the first one they sent me was broken.
Like it just it was a was a broken product.
And so I reached out to them and I was like, Hey, so super
awkward. I agreed to like, do this brand
partnership but what you sent me was broken and they were like,
oh gosh, sorry. And so then, they sent me
another product and it was also similarly broken.
And I had this moment where I realized that like, I couldn't
in good conscience basically, rep their company, like Ike, I
didn't feel right about going in front of my followers and
saying, like, I put my name on this brand.
I stand, you know, for this brand or whatever, and I didn't
think that I would be a good like partner / affiliate for
this brand because I'm like, I've had frankly nothing but
like underwhelming experiences and so I told them thank you,
but no, thank you. And it got me thinking about the
fact that like, I don't really say, no concrete lie that often
and that got me thinking about the experience of growing up as
a undiagnosed. Neurodivergent people-pleaser,
who really? I mean to this day struggles
with both giving a no and also if I'm being really honest like,
receiving a know because Also rejection sensitive dysphoria.
And so, I think the, the idea of like, no is something worth
talking about, and just like the experience of saying, no,
hearing no being told no, whatever, whatever, no looks
like to you. The word no has lost all meaning
you've talked now, what is that called?
Semantic satiation. Thank you.
When a word, you say it too much, and I'll send it to sounds
like syllables. No.
I mean to be honest words if I could if I could if I could I'm
just not call you. It's like the opposite of
calling you because I'm about to commend you.
But like I've noticed uses you setting boundaries more often.
It's the and I think I know I think that's really bad ass.
I've been harvesting, I'm not good at it but I've been I've
been working on it. I can tell it really.
It should. I mean like I'm was it
yesterday? I don't know time but I was I
was over. You were we were I wake up.
He woke up here and then you and Chris left because you had to go
do Ren Faire stuff. Yeah.
And you were like, stay as long as you like me to do, Everyone's
like cool. And so I went to the backyard
and I was doing like, your strap stuff down.
I built it. I built a small village in.
Your backyard, all Village in my backyard and I do not make
content about it because it's just for me for now.
It was and I was still here when you got back.
So you guys got back and you always like only show you
Middletown. I can I can just I can.
Okay, I'm just gonna you're moving it.
Okay, there you go. Peter guys.
Oh yeah. Okay, I had no clean break to
cut that, so I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna leave that in.
It's fine. Building a village.
Yes, I was building is a building knowledge.
You got back in Chris, got back from from doing Ren Faire stuff.
And you said to me, you're like, oh cool.
Then he was like, Hey, like I never really your specific word
at weddings, but you were, like, kind of like, hey, so like I'm
sorry, I gotta kick you out. I like, I told Chris, we would
spend the night, just the two of us and I was like, yeah, sure.
And I went, oh, but I was really proud of you for like, being
able to tell me like, hey, you got my fucking house because I'm
spending time with my husband, you know, I mean, obviously,
didn't Say that. But that must have been really
hard thing to do and you were like, no, because I was really
proud of you and I wasn't, you don't count your different.
I don't think that's true. I mean, cause like I mean, I
like I think a lot of that though comes down to like trust
because it's like I trusted that you would understand that as my
partner, like sometimes it's important for me to spend
private quality time with you, the same way that it's important
for me to spend quality private time with my husband.
And so I don't feel weird about being liked.
I told her silly we would hang out tonight, you know, like
whatever because I trust that you're not going to be like fuck
you bitch like you know what I mean?
Like I trust that but I think that is I mean honestly I think
it speaks more about you than it does to me about me because
you're a trustworthy. Like you're a good partner.
Like you're a good partner and you're somebody that I can be
like no. And you're not going to be like
I hate you forever. It's true.
You know, I guess I guess that's right.
Yeah, like oh there's more there.
Yeah, I don't know. I feel like There's like a lot
of like conditional knows, what do you know, like nose feel
different depending on the people on the person.
Yeah. Because like for you like I'm
never I mean, sometimes I'm afraid to like disappoint you or
something, you know, if you're like I want to go do this thing
and I'm like, nah, because I'm sad or whatever like there's
that, but I mean, it's weird how different nose can feel
depending on who you're talking to.
Because, like, you know, for me me, Me being like, hey can I I'm
going to spend the, you know, the evening with Chris.
So, fuck off. Yeah, you know, like that's a
lot different than my looking at a brand and being like, your
product is shitty and I don't want to work with you, you know,
because that's like that's like professional reputation stuff
that's, you know, whatever, you know.
But the same way is like, I don't know, like it's there's
just so many different nose, feel different every time.
And I think that's one of the hardest things at least for me
is that there's no like no, like no is not a consistent feeling
or it's not a consistent status. Hmm.
Does that make sense? Kind of, I think so.
What are you trying to say that? Like a, no, can change depending
on the response? I know like it feels different
to say no. Two different people.
Yeah, well I think this is there's you know sometimes like
you know only one way I had to say something and it's really
convoluted and snobby or whatever.
Yeah but there's an inverse relationship between how easy it
is to say no and the certainty that that person isn't going to
be a dick about it. Yeah.
Like if you're positive, that they're going to respond, okay?
Then it's much easier to say no. And then but the less confident
you are, that they're not going to freak out the harder it is.
And I think at a certain point, especially in a professional
setting, I mean ideally, you'd be able to say no no matter what
the person how the person is going to react because it's your
prerogative to say no, but it certainly does get harder if the
less and less certain you are that it's not going to end with
you. No imminent, death or whatever,
an angry email. I mean, you know, who I aspire
to be is, Alan Rickman. Like, I don't aspire to be, I
aspire to be like your mom. Your mom can say no like a guy.
Goddamn champion. She is a pro and it's one of the
coolest things. The like, I've like, I've like
Takin notes unlike just the like assertive, self-confident know
like, oh my God, it's beautiful. It is.
Well it, I mean, I've known em for 27 years, I suppose it
wasn't always that way like she the reason she's that.
Good at it, is because she used to be fucking awful at it.
Yeah, she had to train yourself to do that.
See that's where that's what I'm working on.
I think we're, and I think you're doing fucking great.
The door sea level? No, get the door.
So, you know, well, it also makes me think of like, some of
the most organized people, I know or know of not that I know
personally necessarily, but all are organized because they used
to be horrific lie, disorganized.
So, there's hope for us yet. Well, like in a culinary sense.
I'm extremely organized. Yeah, because Well, depends on
y. If I'm cooking for myself at
home, it's a different story. But like if I'm cooking like
Thanksgiving or something like that.
Yeah. But that was all training like I
used to not be that way. Yeah.
And I would every day, I would go in and I would be bad at
being organized and I had to work on it.
Yeah. And so now I'm good at it and I
think I proposed in a culinary sense.
I have a more, I have a good appreciation for organization
because I used to suck at it. But similarly, the with being
able to say no and set boundaries because I think
saying now is a form of setting a boundary Being bad at saying?
No does not mean that you can't be good at it.
It does mean that once you're good at it, it's going to feel
really good. It's it is also really
interesting to me too and and some of this I think is just
coming out of like the therapy that I've been doing and stuff
but like fundamentally realizing how broken my sense of like
boundaries was and and like where my autonomy begins.
Is fascinating. It is absolutely fascinating to
me because like for a very long time, and I don't mean this in
like, an Insidious way. But like I wasn't allowed to say
no. Like, they're like no wasn't an
option growing up. And so it's like if I didn't
want to do something too fucking bad.
Like if you know the whatever the you know the thing we were
eating for dinner. If If it was something that gave
me horrific sensory issues too fucking bad, you're not allowed
to say no. And so like thinking about like,
how, like how I how I look at the concept of no is still
something. That is, If like it no still
feels like a guilty thing like saying, no is something that I
still feel bad about, you know, like no is still something where
I'm like, oh like, am I being am I being like bad, or, like
selfish or greedy or like whatever?
But it's always negative. It's I never think of no, as a
positive thing, even in the moment, where I'm like, I'm
proud of myself for saying no, you know what I mean?
Like, like for like that brand today.
I was proud of myself for saying, no, because I feel like
I stuck to my sort of morals and I stuck to my principles and I
said, no as a Creator who deeply cares about their Community.
I'm not going to represent a brand that I don't believe in.
So no, but there's still part of me that's like I feel bad about
that. I feel like an inconvenience
because like, you know, the brand, you know, we've been in
contract negotiations for months at this point, you know, like I
I told them that I would make the content, they sent me the
stuff, you know, all the stuff. So it's like it still feels bad,
like, it doesn't feel good. And so that's the thing that I I
think is really interesting, is that there there's no place in
which saying no ever makes me feel good.
I still feel bad. And I think a lot of that is
based on the experience of being a neurodivergent people-pleaser
with a profound sense of what Section sensitivity.
Well, I I think there's also an interesting relationship
between. The fact that being
accommodating is a virtuous thing to do.
Yeah. So to is being honest.
Yeah. And if I asked you, do you want
to do X Y and Z thing? And you fucking totally didn't,
but to be accommodating. You said, yes, you're lying.
Yeah, you're being dishonest, yeah.
So by saying, yes, when you mean no, you're being dishonest, and
I'm not saying it's inherently negative thing and it's an
immoral thing to do, because we obviously the word Honesty
sounds like you're assigning a moral judgment to it.
But at a certain point when a person asks you a yes-or-no
question or if you're a person asked you to work with them
professionally or whatever ultimately what I think I'm
saying this I think ultimately what?
Should be aspired to outside of personal boundaries and all that
stuff is honesty and existing in an objectively accurate world.
Yeah, for example if I were to say do you want to go watch?
What's a new movie? That just got our flag means
death are flying means deaths. Yes I do.
I want to do that very much. I'm so excited.
Dear listener. If you're listening to this and
you're like but I don't have any shows about Pirates being
Wholesome and delightful starring, take over TD as the
Blackbeard, the pirate, my friends to have a show for you.
It's come off like me stuff, it's so good anyway.
Sorry continue with your point, starring Korg during the
quarter. But I've already asked you, if
you wanted to go watch, our flag means death and in this reality,
or you ask, I'm trying to make this convoluted.
But like if you, if I say, do you want to go?
Watch your flag means death. Our flag means death.
Arf, arf like mean step and you don't and you say yes.
So we go do. Do we are now operating under
false pretenses. Yeah, I'm existing in a reality
that is not accurate. I'm existing a reality in which
I believe that you want to and which you actually don't, which
is not ideal. Yeah, so when I when somebody
says no to me, I am reassured that when I'm with this person,
I'm operating within reality. Yeah, I'm not operating under
false pretenses with this person.
So I find know when somebody says no to me Between sanely
comforting because it means every time after that I don't
have to worry about whether or not.
Frankly, they lied to me and said that they did want to do
something. When in fact, they didn't or
they did like a thing that I made when in fact, they didn't.
However, we also have to balance that with accommodation.
Like if I'm at a party like it's like, let's say I'm at my
grandmother's birthday, 80th, birthday party or something,
she's 83 but 80th birthday party a nice round number and you
know, we're there for a while but I'm getting bored or
whatever. Like if we've been over three
hours, I've caught a Converse. And I'm getting tired.
And I want to go home, but then my grandmother comes up to me
and says like, hey, you having a good time?
Well, I'm not going to say no. Actually, I'm fucking bored and
I don't like there's of course I'm not gonna do that.
Yeah, I'm gonna say I'm having a great time, of course.
So I think it's a weird bounce to be healthily accommodating
and not just be fucking mean to people all the time.
Yeah. And tell those little white lies
that keep Society Running but also not constantly existing in
the Persona that you've now Created after years and years
and years of completely neglecting your own boundaries
for the sake of accommodating others.
I think that's a dangerous place to be because after a lifetime
of doing that all of a sudden you wake up and you're like, who
the fuck? I'm not like I have no idea what
I actually want or what I want to do because I've just been
trying to accommodate everybody else all the time.
For more information on that topic.
See last week's podcast? I didn't mean it.
I was like oh shit. That's exactly.
We talked about last week. Well I mean that's like that's
like why I'm I've been thinking about it so much is because So I
really have been realizing how unhealthy my relationship with
no is, you know, just like and it's and it's just it's
interesting to think about like I don't know if I have any like
Solutions you know I don't know if I have any like profound like
and he is how you fix it. But I it's it's really Telling I
think that well that's a lie but I think I think it's a luster
t''v of like sorry I'm really just trying to.
I can hear the pain or some stairs and I just realized that
I forgot to give them money today and so now I don't know
what to do. Well they're still here.
I know it's fine. I'm sure did anyway.
Um but so is like I don't like I just might my relationship is.
No is so fundamentally based on this idea that I'm constantly
terrified to be an inconvenience.
And it's like I'm significantly older than you.
And I'm just now beginning to like, consider the the idea
consider the idea that I might not be an inconvenience, if I
don't do things that I don't want to do sometimes.
Well, that's what I thought. That's all I have to say about
that. I don't know where I was going
with any of this. Well, for one you're not
significantly older than me sweetheart.
My grandmother is significantly over the mesh, or, and two, I
think If I had a second one, oh God, she's 20 like if oh and I'm
an immense, I'm lucky enough. Just straight-up genetic luckily
and I'm lucky enough to be born into a pretty healthy family.
Yeah. Like the reason they're Healthy
Families because my parents parents were not the healthiest
people ever. They grew up in both grew up in
a very dysfunctional families and they were like their
response to. That was to not do that, which
is great. But either way, I'm just
straight up Lucky it. Like, I had examples of these
things so it's not not your fault.
Like I don't feel bad about. I mean, thanks.
Good Will Hunting. I know that.
But like, it was, it was Robin Williams character.
That's it that Good Will Hunting.
You would be Good, Will Hunting in this case.
Cool. Eric, you want to get that?
Who is it? Hello.
Oh shit. Hey John.
Sorry I am literally recording a podcast, right, this very
moment. It's John, it's Shanty.
Clause thought maybe I like your Tic Tacs Kyocera so she likes
you take talks. Loves yourself to.
This is this is what I have to deal with your listener.
Eric literally takes a phone call in the middle of a goddamn
Punk. Yeah, for sure thing.
All right, I'll see you later. I'm sorry.
Little guy is really sad. If you cut that, everybody go do
follow Shanty clause on tick tockia.
He creates very wholesome content.
Greg basically surrounding maple syrup and Irish jigs.
Yeah, it's great. He's my alright, anyways, sorry,
it was one of those things where, like, I expected it to
be, like, CVS being like come pick up your fucking meds, but I
was like, That's from where I used to live.
It's a number that like didn't seem sketchy.
I was genuinely curious. There you go.
I forgot what we were talking about.
I know what I'm thinking about. Is that your coffee right there?
Says sugar-free vanilla l dot written on the thing.
L, four lattes III assumed but by writing L they've clearly
acknowledged that they value abbreviation and efficiency.
So why would they write sugar-free vanilla out and then
abbreviate deal They also wrote a DOT after the L, to indicate
that. It is abbreviated that one, the
other, the other Coffee Company to go coffee cups.
And then one, two, three, four, five, five of our coffee.
I'm gonna bring a trash bag upstairs.
I know we got to do some of the office.
Oh yeah, no, I got bored. So there is more there's a whole
novel on this Co my gosh, sugar-free vanilla L period, a
aim all. My extra sweet with that's got
to be from. Yeah, it is.
All right cool. Yeah it's the Baristas are
totally look like people that would write out in very lovely
handwriting. Thanks very.
It's strawberry properly. Yeah, but there wasn't really
like wholesome things on the coffee sleeves.
Mine says, you have purpose. Useful.
Should I not have? I'm sorry.
Derailed the whole thing while. Answering that phone calls.
Okay, well, I have a sharp back on the rails here.
If I said to you, let's go bowling, like I want to go
bowling. I would for one we did.
I'm not saying I want to go bowling.
This is not me, like Freudian, like, putting it into the
conversation, but like if I said, I will anything but let's
just take bowling that I wanted to go.
Bowling, do you wanna go bowling?
I wouldn't want to go bowling with somebody who didn't want to
be bowling. Like could you imagine like
imagine doing anything with somebody and you who you knew
didn't want to be there? That would suck like that would
fucking suck. Like, that's why I don't
understand why people try to convince other people to, like,
go, see a movie that they don't want to see.
It's like really want to go to the movies with somebody,
knowing that they would very much rather not be there.
Like doesn't make any sense. Anyways, like if I ever ask you,
do you want? Let's go do something.
You want to go do something. I only want to do that thing.
If you also want to do that thing.
So it's not that. Like if I were to ask you, you
want to go do something, you're telling me whether or not I can
whether or not I want to is informed on whether by whether
or not you want to and by being an accurate in your response.
Now I'm offering to false pretenses now.
I'm not doing the thing that I wanted to do, which was go
bowling with a person who wanted to go bowling well with you who
wanted to go bowling. So there's there's a there's a,
there's an objectivity to it, a lot of a lot of Senses.
So not only is it personally healthy to be able to say no to
things. It's beneficial to those around.
You to give them an accurate understanding of what your
what's going on with you. If you feel they deserve to know
your enemy but then also bounced back with accommodation.
I'm not going to tell my grandmother.
I don't want to be here. Fucking party or whatever, you
know? Yeah.
It's a weird. It's spelled.
I have a lot of feelings and I don't know where I ultimately
follow up on the end of it, because I feel like and it might
be, you know, I don't usually play like the gender card, but
it might be, it may be gendered a little bit.
That's because I feel like I have been much more socialized
to be agreeable. And I've been much more social
like, socialized to like go along with things and like not
complain or like, you know, if everybody else wants to go
bowling, you know then let's go bowling because it's going to be
less of a hassle than trying to figure out like something else
that we can all do because you know, like In my mind, you know,
there's always gonna be one person who's, like, less
enthusiastic about bowling, you know, obviously, that person can
can be, you know, can opt out. It's actually said, you say no,
obviously, everything can go fuck themselves.
No, no. I know it's out here and that is
what my brain was mean, but it's like, like and I don't know, and
then it starts like and it's hard to get like way more
complicated than more that you think about it.
And I think honestly like what ultimately comes down to is
like, I don't have any Like I'm just fascinated.
I'm just, you know, it's just a really interesting thread to
pull because it's like I don't like bowling but I also know
that I like you and I like spending time with you.
And so if you ask me, do you want to go bowling?
I don't necessarily even interpret the question as like,
do you like bowling? Do you enjoy, bowling and would
you like to accompany me on a bowling trip?
I hear. Hey, I have an activity that I
enjoy. And I'm inviting you to come
spend time with me and share in this experience with me.
Would you like to do that? And I'm like, yeah, fucking hate
boring. I mean physically, I can't go
bowling because it will fuck up my life with my dystonia, but
like, but that's how I think of things is I don't think about
them as, like the yes or no of do you want to watch, you know,
the extended edition of Return of the King because, no, I
don't, it's a four and a half fucking hour movie.
But I do want to spend time with my husband because I love him
very much. You know?
Yeah, it's like yeah, it's the Lord of the Rings is a perfectly
good. Movie.
But like, I'm not particularly enthusiastic about like, you
know, like a lot of times, I'm not enthusiastic about the
thing. I'm enthusiastic about like, who
I'm spending time with. Yeah, I think that's why, I, you
know what I mean? Like, it's interesting, I don't
know, it's maybe just how we think about stuff.
No, I think that is. I think it's fair.
I think I I factor all that in to whether or not the answer is
yes. To I want to go on.
Like, if you were to say, do you Eric, do you want to go do this
thing that I don't, particularly like that you do?
I might No, I don't like that thing, but I do like seeing you
happy, that's really fun. So therefore, yes, I do want to
go, but I also think it's something worth and I'll
acknowledging it like seriously, thank you for bringing it up.
Like I as a man. Like, if I say no, like, that's
like, oh, what? A strong young man who ever,
Parker? I don't fling it, you know,
it's, it's, if I know I'm a bitch.
You're an uppity or whatever the fuck, you know, like, in that's
horrible. And obviously, but I think
that's, I mean, that's, I think that's that's straight up here.
Village right there. Yeah, like that.
I get to do that. I get to say no and have people.
Still respect me in fact, probably respect me more because
now they're like wow I can't fuck with him but Tada whereas
whereas a woman. That's different.
Yeah. And well I also like a lot of
times the assumption is that if I keep asking like and this is
more of like a sexual nature but like you know, if I keep asking
over and over and over again, then maybe it'll turn into a
yes. Oh yeah, another thing that
happens to women a lot that is gross and not.
Okay. Yeah.
But speaking of things that you don't want to do, but that would
make me happy hair shed. What are you gonna do?
You want to go first your teeth? What Are you seriously at when?
No, I don't want to go wash my teeth.
Okay, I'm proud of but I will because God damn it.
It's a middle of the day. Why would I go boyfriend right
now? I don't know, I just wanted to
trick you into doing anything. Ha ha, that's fair.
Oh yeah, it's 7:31 that we gotta be done with pockets to
interruptions, and I was the door closing and the phone call,
but there's no clean break on either end of a Vegas.
Got to stay. And there's a lot going on in my
house right there is. Yeah, and there's going to be
even more tomorrow. So Oh, hey, there's that we
recorded when we could record. This is little prior to any
budding podcasters out there. If your heart of broadcast, and
there's an interruption, make sure that I get a little one
moment of silence before in a moment of silence afterwards.
If you can and helps in the editing process, maybe wait,
until after your house, is being renovated to record a podcast.
That's not you, that just, you're right in the middle of
it. It'll be great.
All right. Stay tuned for well, well, well,
well, Did you hear it? Just any went and it did the
thing it went where I want a while, I told you.