Hey everybody, it's me. Katie asaurus also known as
Kelly Osbourne everybody it's me.
Hey, goood also known as Erica goood.
Before we begin, we have a couple of housekeeping notes.
First, we just want to remind you that one of the best ways
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That way no one will know. It's me.
Without further Ado here is season 1 episode 15 of infinite
Quest hyper-focus. Overload, welcome to season, 1
episode, 15 of Katie Knox, infinite Quest an ADHD
Adventure. This episode, we're going to
talk about hyper-focus /, hyper fixation.
I'm so excited. So 15.
We're apples over 15 episode 15, Katie that's bananas.
That is bananas. Nearly 100.
That's nearly 100. Yeah. 15 is practically 100. 100
is that's like practically it practically.
I was right my gosh. So good I wasn't episodes good
for us. One good for us, honestly.
Good job buddy. I'm really proud of it.
Okay, I believe you had some super cool thing that you gotta
say telling me. Oh, okay.
So we talked about talking about hyper fixation and Hyper focus,
and I started doing research on hyper fixation and Hyper focus.
And then this happened, I got tagged in a video on Tick-Tock,
send ludes tag me in this video, but the original poster is
actually our a DOT a moonbow. It's rainbow.
Oh cool. Oh, it's really nice name.
Yeah, we love that and like that, I just realized that I've
been saying it is Send eludes but then I realized that the
actual screen name is sent ludes, it's what it's actually
low, send Lutz is there actual screen name is okay, so here is
your question. If you have ADHD you can know
the like horrible experience of your hyper fixation and
something that like genuinely gives you Joy turn into an
assignment in your head which you then procrastinate.
I have experienced this a lot. All of my art projects have
become that but I've never had someone An influence that
process for me, I've been hyper fixating on.
Redoing my room taking down my wardrobe, repainting, everything
and just redesigning, and I could tell my dad was going to
steam roll it and make it also his project because he also has
Perfections. So I decided to do it by myself
the second day, he came in and just yelled at me about how I
was doing it wrong, how this is sturdy and then started giving
me a task to do. As soon as he did that, I went
downstairs and then washed a YouTube video for an hour was
focused and then suddenly Me, I'm procrastinating the
assignment I've been given when it was my idea was a great
question. It was kind of like a
two-parter. Right?
Because when I first watched the video, I thought the question
was going in a different direction.
I thought the question was going to be what do you do when the
novelty of your hyper-focus? Starts to fade.
Yeah, go away. All right.
Those but then there's like that really interesting component
about what happens when external factors start impacting your
hyper Ation or your hyper focus. And I think that's really
interesting because I think that both of us can apply the same,
external factor to our individual, hyper fixations and
I would like to offer you, I would like to offer you a
hypothesis. What's that Katie?
You were a music. I mean, you are, you still are a
musician? Sure?
Right. Yes.
There's fancy boy, loose definition of the ocean, but
sure and and I have been a performer and an actor and all
of the thing for years and years looser definition of performance
Sure. I'm sorry.
Fuck you very much rehearsal. Practice.
Yes, the external assignment creator of the thing that brings
us joy and I think that's really interesting.
And so, that's what I'm going to talk about today.
I want to talk about hyper fixation what happens when the
joy of your hyper fixation goes away, which is like such a real
thing. Like this happen to me so many
times when I feel like Dread but then also like let's talk about
those external factors. So okay, so first though before
like we really get into this, I think one of the things that we
need to To make very clear, is how we use the terms
hyper-focus, and Hyper fixation, because they are kind of two
different things. But ultimately like I tend to
sort of, like, wrap them into the same umbrella.
Because to me, Hyper focus is what happens when you are drawn
into like a specific task. So we'll say like, doing the
dishes or cleaning or sewing or like you know for you, you know,
like coffee store models, you are hyper focused in That moment
on the thing, hyper fixation is more a topic like people use
television shows, or like book series a lot as an example like
Harry Potter or Game of Thrones, whatever.
Like I'm hyper fixated on this. And so I am consuming everything
about it and I am, I am learning everything.
There is no about it like, whatever, but it can be
anything. It be any topic, any subject,
any, whatever? But the way that I tend to think
about it and talk about it, is that hype / fixation is always
hyper focus. It is just a hyper focus on a
topic. So it's like not all hyper
fixations are hyper. Focus is but all hyper focuses.
Are hyper fixation? Yeah, I think of it is to make
sense. Yeah, like hyper focus is an is
an instance of hyper fixation like I am hyper fixated on
bookbinding at all times like during which is true.
By the way, there was a two-month period where I was
just doing it all day every day, it was amazing.
So that whole period I was Hyper fixated on it.
But I wasn't always hyper focused on it because I was at
work and stuff. So the hyper-focus was me
sitting at the desk doing it, I was hyper focused which was
because I was hyper fixated. I was in a Fray a phase of hyper
fixation. So I predict station is sort of
like you hyper fixate on the Hobby and when you're doing the
hobby at your desk, that's when you're hyper focusing.
I also want to point out that these are not the literal
definitions of these words, this is just how Katie and I tend to
tend to use them, we also tend to use them in discriminately So
I guess we'll try to be clear about if we mean the the larger
concept of hyper fixation or specific instance of
hyper-focus. Yeah but so going into the
episode we just wanted to make that clear that we both kind of
independently of each other tend to use that those terms
interchangeably. So just wanted to let you know.
Yeah, so I went together those external factors in rainbows
case. It was, I believe their father.
Yeah, who came and told them that they were doing it wrong
and all that stuff. It seems like the external
Factor can be a person, but I also feel like the external
Factor can be something that we create for ourselves.
For example, like say, let's say as a musician and I think I
should really practice more and so I think I'm going to practice
from 10 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. every day.
Now, I've created this schedule this outside thing.
This this is the schedule and now I'm beholden to that.
So that is now, even though I created, it is now the external
thing. That can kind of throw a big ol
wet towel. Is that what it is through a
damp rag on certain up the expression, sure you're hyper
fixation, like, something that always happen to me.
When I was a kid is occasionally, I would hyper
fixate on cleaning and rearranging my room because I
would do it. So it was a wonderful feeling I
would look in my room. Look at my room is like a 13
year old or something and thinking like this is my room, I
live here. This is a representation of me.
This is my space and I want to make it nice just purely
internal modem or internally motivated.
And so I would start cleaning and rearranging things and being
like, That'd be nice. I can sit there and read or
whatever and I would start doing that and I would get really into
it really like you know nesting and then my mom would yell up
the stairs like hey Eric could you clean your room?
And I would just immediately be like that fought.
The 100% of this. We are done with the room.
Cleaning thing exactly what rainbow was talking.
It's what I was going to say that such a like, that happens
to me. So it was it was almost creepy.
How precisely my mom? I feel like she heard me
cleaning and then thought, oh, that's he's going.
Oh that's right. He needs to go into and then
would tell me yeah. But it's so strange.
How it's so different when it comes from inside when you feel
motivated and then all of a sudden, an external Factor can
cause you to almost sort of resent the task, I don't really
know. It's I don't want to
oversimplify it but to me it kind of, it kind of feels like,
you know, at a certain stage. When you're a teenager, you
become rebellious and you're just, you're just questioning,
whatever the reality around you is and so, and which is
necessary. It's totally good to do that.
So if somebody tells you hey I need you to do this, it's
totally normal and healthy. Did you just go?
Well, why wait, who are you to tell me what to do?
And it's really unfortunate when you want the thing and then
because an external Factor pops up and then in dictates that you
should do that and instructs you to do that.
Now, it makes me forget that I was initially.
Initially internally motivated like At first.
Yeah. And I guess that's another thing
to get really mad at me for his II.
My God, I Actively fear. Somebody praising me for doing
something that I'm hyper focused on because then I don't feel
like I'm doing it for me anymore.
See, that's my thing. Like my thing is purely about
expectation. Mmm, because like and and I see
like and I see that pattern of behavior in my life, right?
Because for me like you know me I will like I'm a stage manager,
I'm a professional stage manager, I've been an event
planner, I've been an event coordinator and so like there is
there have been I should say points in my life were like I
will be helping someone. I will be assisting someone and
but my way of assisting someone is like stage management so it's
like I will Pepper Potts for them.
Right. Right.
But it's like the minute that that becomes the expectation is
the minute where I don't want to do it anymore, right?
But what gets hard is when that is applied to like hyper my
hyper fixations and like the really good example is
Shakespeare because like I know I always find a way to shoehorn
this into the conversation but like I have two masters degrees
and Shakespeare and for a very long time.
I was the Shakespeare girl like that was my identity.
That was who I was like, everybody knew that I was the
Shakespeare girl but more specifically.
I was the Titus andronicus girl. Because like my hyper fixation
with in my love of Shakespeare is Titus andronicus and then it
started to feel like an obligation and then it started
to feel like there was this and there was there's like external
thing of my friends and my community and this sort of like
world where I was living. We're like I was one of the
world's foremost experts on Titus andronicus.
So of course my next academic paper was going to be on Titus,
andronicus. Of course I was going to A
conference and speak on Titus. Andronicus of if I was at a
conference, of course, I was there for Titus andronicus and
it's like, no, I also, like Much Ado About Nothing, you know, and
so that hyper fixation and hyper-focus started to Define
me. And I don't know if it was
because I have like a naturally like rebellious streak or
because like I was just exhausted of being hyper
fixated, or just purely because like the hyper fixation were off
at that same time. Time.
But I felt that external expectation of my being the
tightest girl and I just was like I don't want to anymore and
I still love Titus but I don't love it in the way that I used
to because of that expectation. Like I have, honestly I don't
think I've brought up Titus on Tick-Tock at all.
Like nobody knows this about me. And I know so much about like I,
I don't too much about Titus andronicus.
Yeah, I don't know. It's weird.
Well I think People hyper-focus sort of breeds, Its Own Worst
Enemy at some point. Yeah, because you hyper-focus
one. Hyper focus is.
And that causes me to start over committing.
I get so excited about the thing that I'm doing.
And I start over-committing and saying like, yeah, I'm going to
I'll yeah, I can write that article or whatever.
Like yeah, I can all like, shoe all rope a bunch of, like my
friends and to some project and what on Titus?
Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah, will be great.
And then we'll call a bunch of local.
Places to see if they'll let us click use their stage and stuff.
And once all those things are in place, it becomes sort of work.
Yeah, it becomes that expectation.
Like, oh now it's not, you're doing this because you want your
now, you're doing it because it's expected of you and that is
just such like I what's the damp towel, right?
Are wet rag on the. Yeah, there really is to it.
I mean, I remember the day that I woke up and realized that I
was no longer hyper-focused on Harry Potter, Like, I remember
like I was Eric, I was fucking obsessed with Harry Potter, like
I was in the newspaper for how many times I read Harry Potter
as a child, like, I was fixated on Harry Potter and like one day
when I was like 16 or 17, I woke up and I was like oh this is oh
it's fine. And it was like that it was like
an overnight shift in like, it wasn't like I like had some like
Foundational. You know what it was before like
the JK Rowling as a problematic piece of garbage thing?
It was just like I woke up one day and I looked around and like
my whole room was Harry Potter, my mom called me literally, like
two days ago. And was like, do you want your
Harry Potter sheets and your Harry Potter?
Throw pillow and your Harry Potter blanket and your Harry
Potter jean jacket. I was like no she's like but she
used to love Harry Potter so much and I was like, yeah.
I know, well, just for the record.
You said W, hold on to that Harry Potter, jean jacket.
That's just something you should have seen jacket, but like that
was big and like, there's like, there's like such a loss to it
and it's like I get sad. I get sad for those moments that
I've had in my life, where I profoundly love something.
And I profoundly attach myself to an end, it was like a
foundational part of me and my personality and who I am.
And I wake up one day and I don't care about it anymore in
the way that I used to, and it's like, I'm not haven't even seen
the last four. Harry Potter movies, like I just
quit, I just quit Harry Potter, like I was like, okay and I
think that degree of separation and that degree of like leaving
it behind was easier than watching the last few movies.
Because I was like, because I remember, I remember loving it,
I remember that joy and that I watch it now and I'm like, it's
a movie and like that, that At loss and that grief, like I hate
that about myself but like that's happened to me so many
times in my life and sometimes it's really quick, you know, and
sometimes it takes a long time, but I mean, somebody asked me
that question on Tik-Tok, like a really long time ago, they were
like, well, how do you deal with the grief of losing your hyper
fixation? And I realized like it was such
a good question because the anxiety I feel about what about
the day where I wake up and I don't love Shakespeare anymore.
Oh, what about when that happens?
Well, and that is so scary. Yeah, you know.
Wow for me, I think that sense of grief, sort of compounds.
So I have grief in that, I have grief because of the grief,
there's like a secondary emotion that Trails behind.
Yeah. Especially as an adult with ADHD
who was diagnosed at an early age.
I've been watching that pattern happen.
A lot hundreds of times in my life where I become just
obsessed with something for a week to week.
Maybe a month and I just go on and I create this sense of
identity around it and then all of a sudden I just wake up one
day and it's gone and I'm it's really feels like I'm mourning
for the death of my identity is all wake up and I'll feel like,
oh my gosh, I've discovered myself, I've learned myself, I
have learned that I really want to be a blacksmith or I really
want to be attacked a machinist. Katie was a blacksmith for two
years. It's a really interesting story
because Of course she was, but I agreed for that loss of
identity. I feel like I learned myself and
then lost that version of myself in the blink of an eye.
And once that starts to happen over and over, and over, and
over and over again, you start to anticipate it.
One starts to anticipate. I start to anticipate it and so,
I competed merely because I've recognized the pattern, we're
humans are generally pretty good at recognizing patterns.
And so now, when I get hyper fixated on something or hyper
focused on something, there's a lingering stench throughout it.
That is the anticipation of the grief that I will feel when I
don't care about this anymore. And so then when the grief does
hit, if I do lose, focus on that thing, and it goes away, the
grief itself hits of. I've now, lost that sense of
self that I had when I was hyper focused on this thing and then
the secondary emotion behind that is sort of the anger at the
grief is I'm mad that I'm grieving and it sort of
snowballs into itself as I get mad that I'm feeling the way
that I'm I'm feeling and I think that secondary anger at the
grief. I think that's, I think that's
the real devil here. See, it's interesting that you
say that because I literally like, put my nose on my finger,
like a minute ago, because what I was going to say is that I was
late diagnosed, right? I was diagnosed like as an adult
three years ago at this point. So like, for me, I never knew
what hyper fixation or hyper-focus was like I just knew
I would go through phases and so for me, The anger has always
been at myself. It's I've always felt like a
fuck up because I can't commit to anything, and, like, that was
thing. It's because I was like, you
know, like everybody knows the Harry Potter guy.
Everybody knows the, you know, the Twilight girl or the, you
know, the supernatural girl or whatever like everybody knows
that person in their life. And I was like, well, everybody
has something. Everybody has like their thing,
but I've never had my thing. My thing is always been having
things. I was gonna say, The same thing.
Yeah and that has sort of like that has been what has defined
me is? And my friends, you know, make
jokes where it's like, oh, that's Katie.
Yeah. She's a blacksmith I guess.
But also she sorts fight and also she's a magician and also
she's not like and it's just and it's funny to some extent and in
some extent like to some extent, I am I don't to say I'm grateful
but I acknowledge that having those cycles and not knowing
what was going on meant that. I have done so many things and I
have And so many weird skills like I own a fucking hurdy-gurdy
like come on right you do. I'm looking at it now it's too
damn good-looking hurdy-gurdy, very pretty hurting.
That's hurting your knees go. Um but like but that's the thing
is like so now I'm a magician who plays the hurdy-gurdy but
also I'm a trained blacksmith and I'm quantifiably an expert
on Shakespeare like that is not a useful set of career skills
but I'm so grateful for it because it meant that I got to
try new things, but it always came with that law.
Laws. And it always came with that
grief and so, yeah. And so I guess like, what?
I'm just realizing literally, like right now is like, the
anger was never about the grief. The anger was at myself because
I felt like there was something wrong with me, and that was why
I just couldn't settle down. I just couldn't pick a thing.
Like everybody else picks a thing.
Just take your fucking thing. Make up your mind and I couldn't
do it. And then, that just became who I
was. Yeah, I think the term that I
use or I use because I've always heard it this way is moral
failing. Yeah, so for example, we now
know that addiction for example, addiction isn't a moral failing,
it's not just because you're a bad person and therefore, you're
addicted to this thing. It's there are measurable things
going on in a person's brain. That they cannot control that
they've had since birth that is causing their brain to.
Now take this non-essential thing and consider it essential
which is essentially what addiction is that is also
exacerbate Rated by ADHD that is which, by the way, is also all,
we could do a whole episode, I'll be shooting a dick,
honestly, I'm running it. Yeah, right.
That's that's that's a whole thing.
A person with ADHD is inability to commit to things on these
long time, scales and other people seem to be able to commit
to with ease. It's not a moral failing, it's
not just because you're bad, it's there are chemical
imbalances in your brand that cause that to be immensely
difficult. And so I think being able to
recognize stuff like that, these symptoms that we have as not
being moral This rule like drilling into your head, they're
understanding, these are not moral failings, it's not just
because you're a bad person, there's a, your brain is
physically different. So, that's important.
Also, it's worth noting that people with ADHD tend to be more
creative, which is a really loaded thing for me.
Like, when I hear that, that kind of charges me out, because
I feel like prickly about you, I'm like--'cause well for one, I
think creativity is sort of a skill that you can practice and
get better at. So everybody is creative.
Some people nurture that creativity and some people
don't. Which you know neither right nor
wrong. You don't have to do that.
It's been it's not a moral failing.
Exactly. Whereas people with ADHD, just
sort of have a more natural aptitude and if you consider
David Brooks has definition of creativity from his book, The
Social Animal, which I cannot recommend highly enough.
It's fascinating, I don't agree with his politics, but wow, can
that guy right? He defines creativity as the
blending of gists. So for example, in your head
right now you have an understanding of what a tiger
is. Yeah.
Just like in your head, you just have like, The straightest, I
know what a tiger and they're furry and there's my favorite
ones name is Hobbs like we that kind of stuff.
You have a gist, just the concept is floating around.
You also have a concept of say Winston Churchill like that
concept is just flowing, right? You smoked a cigar and he was he
was popular person who was a Gruff guy.
So that's like, what is your children?
Good right here. And right here, you can blend
the concept of a tiger and Winston Churchill together and
think of a tiger in a cool, in a cool suit with a long cigar.
Like I was talking about Normandy, I just With a sweetest
Ed Hardy jacket of all time. They would be a pretty sweet at
already jacket. But the, our ability to do that
to take to two or more gists and just sort of smash them together
and see what happens. David Brooks defines that as
imagination creative imagination, people with ADHD.
Do this practically compulsively?
I, I sort of think of my brain is immensely unorganized.
All the things that I know and all the things that I think
about are just in one big pile. On the floor.
Like if the neurotypicals persons rain is roughly a filing
cabinet. Mine is like if you're to just
dump out a backpack and it's all just sitting in the floor, which
is really bad. If I need to quickly recall a
piece of essential information, however, completely unrelated
things are rubbing up against each other at all times.
Yeah, things that wouldn't logically go together.
Are sitting right next to each other and interacting.
And so you, for example of hyper focused on blacksmithing and
Shakespeare and magic and the whole list.
I don't Want to you know, use don't want to Define what those
were to you. But in your words and it doesn't
really seem why those are use what like it's.
So it's sort of annoying that I have all these seemingly
unrelated skills, until you have to be the entertainment director
of a Renaissance Festival. That means that shit comes
together baby. Well, so I guess what I'm trying
up tempting to say is that our worldview ends up being really
strange and Vivid and unique because of all these strange,
Things we have floating around in our head.
So, for example, I was a musician for quite a while.
So, when I think of certain things I can think, oh, that's
just like how this music thing works.
Even though what I'm looking at is, you know, fiddling with
electronics or something like that.
The analogies just sort of Come Together by accident.
And so that's one of those things that it might not be
obvious the ways in which that bears fruit or builds Bridges.
But it's, that's kind of the superpower of it is, is that we
We mix mix Concepts together. Do you have to say superpower?
I get it. Just wanted to see the look on
your face. It was beautiful people and I
know you feel that it will do an episode on it at some point and
then my second point just to tie off this section I suppose we
should start talking about the science is there's a person
named dr. Ken Robinson.
He was actually knighted. So he's doctor Sir Ken Robinson
or Sir dr. Ken Robinson which I think is
hilarious and he studies look roughly speaking.
In creativity, he wrote a book called The Elements, which I
also cannot recommend highly enough, but I went to a lecture
of his and he was telling a story about how his son first
when his son went to college. He wanted to study philosophy
and he makes the joke. He says, oh, I'm sorry, I don't
believe the major philosophy of her.
Firms are hiring these days and then he quit that and he goes
all I want to study art history, actually.
And he studied art history and then he was like, I'm gonna quit
that. So he quit that.
And then he ended up, I think getting a degree in business
because he just sort of, we went through presumably.
What we Kind of dances like, oh I'm gonna fix it on something
and then. So I might as well get something
quote, unquote useful and then he ended up being an art
purveyor. I believe is the term where he
would basically just travel around the world and what's the
word for just deciding how much that thing is worth?
Oh, like a appraiser appraiser. So his his his philosophy
knowledge sort of allowed him to understand very precisely what
like the larger concepts of the artworks were his are History
knowledge was up, was useful for obvious reasons and then he had
a business degree, so he knew how to actually work it.
Now, the thing is, the point is, is that you can't reverse
engineer that he didn't think I'm going to be an art dealer.
Therefore, I'll spend two years on philosophy, two years on art
history and two years on business.
He just did what occurred to him to do with the time and it just
sort of came together later. I inherently in deeply,
understand that story to my very core every cell of my body.
Renaissance Fair, Katie understands that there you go.
Go. So, I just want to point out,
although it might not make sense to you at the time.
No doubt. The universe is unfolding as it
should deep. Hey everybody.
He did you made it to the middle of the episode.
Just want to let you know that we're really proud of you also
do drink any water today. That's important.
I have been drinking water. Kenny.
Thank you for asking. I have some right here.
Also, we have a red devil shop where we have our cool merch.
Our merch stuff that's perch. Hey here.
It would you like to tell people how to find Our Roots?
Yeah, we're just should I just guess Rebel.com / people /
infinite Quest, right? Yeah.
And also if you go to our website, which is infinite
Quest, Dot-com. There's a link right at the top.
You just click evil button and it'll take you right to our cool
store. Sweet.
Yeah. And you know what else you can
do? On our website, where you can
send us an email and ask us your questions for the next Q&A
episode. Oh cool.
Yeah, that's great. Everything.
All these episodes of a whole Secret website it's called only
transition. Hey everybody.
It's me Katie asaurus and we just wanted to let you know that
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Sand have have fun. Oh okay bye.
Okay so now that we've both been doing research on one of the
things that I thought was the most interesting was that hyper
fixation like hasn't been studied until very very recently
like there was just a study published in September of this
year like that was when it came out.
Well that really sort of like outlined the rates of hyper.
Ian, but it was all like, self-identified, like the people
that they studied literally just really.
Yeah, I have hyper-focus and so that like, wound up having like
some really profound implications but the most
important thing is that hyper fixation is not part of the
clinical definition of ADHD and is so.
And so therefore a lot of clinicians and people who are
diagnosing, ADHD will mistake Hyper fixation and hyper-focus
as a well, you can pay attention and you can, you know, do the
thing when you need to, you're just not applying yourself.
But in reality hyper fixation is like a very specific thing that
has to do with dopamine in your brain and Eric to make this
point. I would like you to explain ADHD
and how dopamine Works me right? Because you're better at it than
I am. Oh well, thank you very much.
That's when I saw when I put that my back pocket and just
play that again in my head, it Eric, you're better at it than I
am. Right, at that, I am are getting
your dopamine. So basically a person with ADHD
has low dopamine levels in their brain.
Any given time they have low tonic dopamine, but your brain
releases little little blue, Keebler, bursts of dopamine.
When something new happens, something new and interesting,
like Sound Outside, you have a new thought, just new stuff
basically. And so since people with ADHD is
a ton of dopamine, level is low, the urge to experience new
stimulus. Such to release that those
little blue sedan. I mean is just irresistible
because our dopamine levels are low in our brain, really wants
to get it back to normal. So we're constantly trying to
get those little bursts now for me since hyper Focus has been
studied not very much at all. Which let me tell you just doing
research for this episode of a first-rate.
It makes me want to be like, all right, I'm going to school now
because I'm going to do this research, Eric.
I'm looking at you as your friend and someone who loves you
very, very much. Like if you I'm not telling you
how to live your life but you would be Amazing at this.
Well, most of, you know, thank you very much.
I appreciate your education. I will I'm going bowling with
your permission. I mean, I meant on the podcast
but also what you want. Thanks can go to school live
your best life. I support you.
So my understanding of what hyper focus is when I experience
it is now. So I have hyperactive type ADHD
predominant. What what did you know that
Katie's likely are guy had two black Wrangle you physically
into this? Going to record today.
I know. So I'm hyperactive uptight ADHD
which causes me to seek new stimulus like physically like I
will physically move around to experience new stimulus.
I'll have a new I thought or a while ago I'll go over there.
My brain is I do want to say addicted because there's a very
specific definition of what a dicted is addiction is but it's
compulsively. Does that?
Now when I hyper focus on something to the outside
Observer? It looks like my ADHD just up
and went away. Like oh my gosh I thought you
had ADHD but there you are focusing on that thing for four
hours. Clearly you're faking clearly.
You're faking for the for the Tigers over because we all know
there's so many accommodations available for few with ADHD and
release cooling system because so many that was sarcasm there.
There's, there's a cut there, a couple years like to the
different episode, but there are a couple.
So what I'm hyper focused on something from the up to the
outside Observer? It seems like my ADHD went away.
When in reality, I'm just as ADHD is I've ever been my brain
is still constantly seeking those little bursts of phasic
dopamine. It just so happens that I'm so
interested in. And doing that.
That one task is new enough and interesting enough.
And I'm constantly turning over a new Stones.
Within this task that I'm getting those bursts of phasic,
dopamine the task in essence, doesn't lose its newness.
It always has that sort of new quality which is interesting
that you say that because it's absolutely in line with this
study that I just read because they talked a lot about the fact
that you don't have control over it.
Like there's no magic. Hyper Focus switched.
That you can hit. And so a lot of ADHD people
reported being, I don't want to say upset, but the study showed
that people with ADHD couldn't hyper focus in school, you know
what I mean. So it's like there's no, there's
no switch. There's no like turning it on
and off it happens. Unconsciously for instance, if
your first episode of Doctor Who you're like, oh wow, my brain
like that. I'll watch another one.
And then he watched another one and the, your brain like More
right? And then all the sudden it's 15
hours later and your entire house is covered in Doctor Who
cosplay is not that I would know anything about that but that is
the reality of it is like. And so then that is I think,
partly where that frustration comes in for people who don't
understand the realities of living with ADHD.
It's like, well, why can't you just focus on your school the
way you focus on your models, why can't you just focus on
school the way you focus on Doctor Who or whatever it
becomes his Catch 22, where the things that I really enjoy our
things that I'm able to hyper-focus on and Hyper fixate
on and get a lot of dopamine and pleasure from but the things
that don't become more boring because I know I could be
watching Doctor Who right now, right.
That's one of the reasons that the term attention deficit
disorder kind of rubs me the wrong way.
I mean I'm not offended but I just I'm partial towards things
like making sense people with ADHD, don't have a deficit of
attention at all. I got attention coming out of my
ears like I have so much attention.
It's a trick. It's a deficit in the one's
ability to regulate that attention and Hyper focus is
just a shining example of when ADHD sort of rolls over and that
dysregulation of attention. Sort of goes.
Oh, that's right. It's not that they don't have
attention. It's that they can't control it
because that person has been doing the same thing for 13
hours and they had a bunch of other stuff too to.
Yeah. Which is also like, that's the,
that's the downside of it is, you know, the, the hyper
fixation. We like, I do this all the time.
I forget to pee, I forget to be all the damn time.
Do you know where you're just like for me it's especially when
I'm building costumes that is like the most that I get hyper
fixated because like my brain is engaged and my body is engaged
because I'm like physically making something and so it's
like I will sit down at my sewing machine to make, you
know, the first part I'm just going to do the first part and
then literally I look up. It is the next day.
The sun is rising and I'm like, where did the time go?
What happened? I haven't eaten or peed in 12
hours like that's not healthy. That's not an okay way to live
your life. But that is the reality of
getting lost in that hyper fixation.
Yeah, absolutely. That's the only thing that I was
able to find in terms of downsides of hyper-focus.
I was, I thought, maybe there's, you're depleting some sort of
neurotransmitter or something like that, but the only thing I
could find is that because of a person with ADHD is lack of
ability to deliberately go. Stick shift tasks.
It can wreak serious havoc on a person's ability to like stay
nourished or stay hygienic but But shifting tasks I think that
is the downside. Like I think that's the that's
the part where things really get screwy because hyper fixation
and I want to be like very clear for people who might be
listening, who don't have ADHD. It's not just like 17 hours like
we're not necessarily talking about like it's only ever 12
hours at a time or 17 hours at a time.
Sometimes it's 15 minutes and sometimes a really good example.
Is the other day. I was trying to clean.
And I Owns a pile of papers and rather than be like, okay, I
need to set this pile of papers aside, I was like, when I was
really good time too, hyper fixate on like, perfectly
organizing this pile of papers. But that fucked my whole
schedule for the rest of the day.
Because instead of spending, you know, five minutes sorting the
papers. Like I thought it took me two
hours. My struggle to shift from task
to task is such a documented part of ADHD.
But in combination with hyper-focus and in combination,
with that, desperate need to, like, find that dopamine, that's
when it can like really impact your day-to-day life, is those
small moments of hyper focus in very inconvenient times.
Yeah I've noticed that my hyper fixation comes with or I guess
my hyper fixation or hyper focus on that type of time scale of
like the 15-minute time scale when you have something else to
do but I just really got into like clearing my counters.
One of the reasons that I feel that I allow those tasks to I
guess, run long to start butting into the other stuff that I had
to do today is because I don't want to generalize too much.
But when one has ADHD and knows it, there's a Our city of
attention to a given task. So there are certain times when
it is nearly impossible impossible for me to
deliberately shift, my focus towards say, clearing off the
kitchen counters. And so, if there's a time when
I'm into it, I need to catch that train, right?
Then because it's leaving the station.
So if I suddenly look at my, you know, the dishes in my sink, and
I'm my brain wants to hyper-focus on it, that's
scarce. I need to take advantage of this
opportunity and so I'll run over and start doing it.
It and allow myself to hyper, focus on it.
Because I know, I won't be able to deliberately shift my focus
towards it later. That's so interesting because
I'm completely the opposite, really?
Yeah, and I think maybe some of that comes from, like, stage
management. Maybe, because, like the thing,
with the reality of my life is like, in, you know, my resume is
so complicated, if you haven't actually looked at it but like
event management, whatever, and then I went from that, I mean I
didn't watch it. Matter.
So event management, and then stage management, and then
large-scale, entertainment. Directing, there is a modicum of
like I can float around from task to task to task but there's
also like rehearsal starts at 3:00 if I'm not at rehearsal at
3:00 not only am I doing a bad job but I'm in trouble and my
professionalism and my reputation as a stage manager is
now on the line because I'm a stage manager who can Ain't get
to rehearsal on time because I was just going to do the dishes
for 15 minutes at 12:30 or 2:30. You know what I mean?
I have absolutely beaten those urges like out of myself because
I can't risk. I can't risk having those
moments in my life and I think it is a, it is a sort of, I
don't say repercussion, but as it is a reality of being a
performer, you are expected to be on time, you are expected to
know your lines. You are, you know, there's a lot
of Personal responsibility that comes from being a performer.
And so for me, I go all I want to do in the whole world is do
the dishes, I will do the dishes later.
Now, I know the dishes are not going to get done later, but I
have to be on time to rehearsal. And so I and so a lot of times
like and just being very vulnerable because this is a
circle of trust like often at the detriment to myself, or my
living situation or you know, the realities of Showering being
clean, right? I will skip those because I know
that I have to do the thing at 3:00 and that's why I get so
angry and so frustrated, you know, and at this point like I
know how to manage my ADHD pretty well.
Like I still have a lot of moments of like Katie put down
the pile of papers. You don't need to sort this but
also like I don't have a job right now.
It's the middle of the pandemic. Like I'm not going out and I'm
going anywhere so it doesn't If I sort the papers, but I get mad
at myself because I do know if you sort the papers right now.
Then the next time you have to be at rehearsal, you're going to
give yourself permission to sort these papers.
Hmm. And then you're fucked.
And so, like that, like, regimentation of needing to
never give in to those urges and like, never give in to that
hyper-focus except when I can, that is, for me.
Like, that's how I've had to do it.
That's how I've had to manage. How does that feel constantly?
If I'm awful, it feels funny. Terrible, it's awful.
I'm always itchy. I'm always itchy.
I just really, I got the urge to reach over and scratch you.
I mean joke, but like, I was gonna ask you this later because
I thought it would be a fun podcast prompt.
But now I want to do it right now, okay?
Describe to me using whatever words.
You need to, what the inside of your brain feels like, well,
physically all the time, like what it feels like physically or
like, you know, whatever. But like, how would you describe
what your brain feels like? Something of this in a couple of
ways. One is the like the literal
physical sensation. What does it physically feel
like? Yeah in which case I would say,
it feels hot or warm but also ijen organically I'm going I'm
going to say it feels like a motor that's just rev.
That's just all the time. Like imagine if you're in a car
and you're in first gear but you're trying to get to 30 mph.
So you just have to take that to get there.
That's sort of how it feels. It's building up a lot of
friction and heat. The reason I qualified that.
So How much is it is actually one of the questions that is
asked when diagnosing ADHD about Newt normally about about
children. Let's say they often seem to
have too much energy, quote, as if driven by a motor diagnostic
criteria, this is how we fucking diagnose this.
Oh, that's all episode. But so anyways, it is literally
a diagnostic criteria that you are.
Your brain can be described as being run by a motor.
So I was kind of scoffing at my own analogy, but anyways, Katie
chance your question. It feels like A motor good,
that's a good answer. What is your brain?
Feel like Katie, you know, those machines that they have at like
casinos and sporting events where you get into the little
box and then a fan turns on. Oh yeah, honey, it was around My
brain feels like that but all of the dollar bills are made out of
wool, huh? And so the inside of my brain is
constantly itchy oh, I see what you're saying.
It's just it's and so I like I have this like, very specific
like, mental image that I came up with when I was a kid and
it's like, my brain is like a big cave and I'm standing in the
middle of this cave. And it's just like one of those
like dollar bill machines, but all the thoughts in my head, all
the things I have to do are just blowing around me in the like
empty, Blackness of this cave and I'm like, reaching out and
I'm trying like desperately to find, you know, like if your
knowledge is a pile on the floor, mine is floating around
above me but like, everything is scratchy.
Everything is scratchy. And so like we haven't talked
about this on the podcast, but I know we've talked about this,
right? But still, like, everybody gives
me shit for saying this and I know how fucking pretentious
it's about to sign sound, but that's why I built the fucking
goddamn mind Library. Oh, yeah.
That's why I built it because my house - yeah, but I call it a
library because it's slightly. Less pretentious slightly.
Okay, but like that's what happened was.
Like, I remember I was in, maybe like, High school or something.
And I heard about that concept and I was like, well, what if I
put a library in the cave and then every time I find a thought
I could just take it to the library and I could put it
somewhere where I know that it is, and it started helping.
But like any way to Circle all the way back to like, what the
fuck I was talking about. Like, the fact that I always
feel like, I'm constantly scrambling and I think maybe
it's like a, the differential between like hyperactive and
inattentive where Like I'll spend 25 minutes sitting and
staring into the middle distance because I'm just waiting for the
right thought, you know, hmm and then I find it I'm like oh
huzzah hooray except that if I'm sitting and staring into the
middle distance for 25 minutes. Now it's 325 and I'm late to
rehearsal and so I had to shut that shit down, huh?
That's deeply sad, I'm sorry. No, no Katie.
I don't want one, it's not up to me whether or not it's sad.
If you're not sad about it, then it's not sad.
But the idea that you have to that, you do not that you have
to the idea that you have been fighting these urges for
completely legitimate reasons. It's just kind of no, no, I mean
yeah, it's awful. Okay, don't like it.
So anyway, our producer, Brian is telling us that we have to
do. Is he that tentacle havin some a
bit material? Forward antler.
We're in the notice. I didn't say antler have and
he's wearing them like the Christmas.
Antlers that you got. He's wearing those two.
I want to be very specific in this moment.
Are you picturing like the felt? Yes, yes.
Yes. Or are you picturing like like a
dark? Like Gothic horn?
Like the fedak, the felt one. Okay.
That's very different than when I bet.
Yeah, that's fine. That's fine.
I just wanted to verify our okay.
So tonight, I think to Circle all the way back all the way,
all the way back to the very beginning, which was rainbows.
Annal question was twofold. It was a question about what
happens when you're hyper. Focus is interrupted by external
factors and then also, what happens when you're hyper Focus
or hyper fixation, start to feel like a job.
Hmm. You know.
Yeah. And so I think that ultimately
though they kind of depending on how you look at it, the kind of
Squish together into the fact that either way, you're hyper
fixation in your hyper focus is being interrupted.
And that thought Modern and that dopamine flow is being
interrupted by either thing and I don't have any other thoughts.
Well, I think, yeah, I think no idea where that was going.
I think we're all comes together is ultimately, the pond re is
the quadrant II mixed punter and quandary together.
I saw it happen and I wanted Ponder is honestly, like, I want
to start working that, screw it. The palm tree we have calling it
right now. Quandary to ponder upon during
the quiet. Yeah, put it on a t-shirt doing
right now. So ultimately, I think what the
court order the the quandary to ponder the pond re if you will
Katie Court, holding that term right now.
Hashtag quandary is, how do you reconcile hyper-focus with the
outside world? Whether it's interrupting you,
or whether it's telling you that you have other stuff to do or
whether it's this, like, all these things that are turning
your hyper-focus into something. That's now a job, how do you
Now, that what is this? What does it all mean?
How can I be, okay? Given the circumstance and I, of
course, have not figured that out, but I would say that I've
noticed that there are certain things that I consistently
hyper-focus on. There are certain things that I
unpredictably hyper-focus on. So, there's sort of two
categories things that I know cause me to hyper focus and
things that I don't know, just random other shit.
Yeah, and something that I try to do well sort of like in our
partnership editing audio. Is like that for me music and
and podcast watching you at it. If I cast is some of the most
stressful shit in the entire, I'm not a blast I know, but you
don't look like you're having a blast.
Like you are an Agony and I sort of feel like, it's fine, it's
fine, it's fine, leave it. And then you're just like, no,
well, so there, I would basically try to say recognize,
which ones you can predict, which hyper-focus is you can
predict are going to happen and try to make it so that your life
is benefited, The fact that you hyper-focus on that thing.
So, for example, right now, the fact that I have to focus on
editing audio is quite incredibly useful, because after
we're done recording this, I'm just going to be you and just go
through the whole thing and make it nice and pretty and Al all
the stuff. So, I would say, yeah, try to
try to facilitate try to get yourself in a position in which
that hyper focus is beneficial. Not just in a professional way
because that also, you know, becomes a job and can sort of
taint. The whole thing.
You said to me, I did Katie, I did say tank, you said it again,
but also like my As my grandfather would say, my sanity
maintenance practice, at the end of the day is I'll do coffee
stirrer models and that is another thing that I
consistently hyper-focus on. So that is also very useful to
me to know because it keeps me saying like at the end of the
day after get home from work, we finish doing a bunch of work
here. I know that I can like, just go
poof in my brain will just go coffee.
Stirrers that deal. They're all there is our coffee
stirrers. So it's useful in sort of a
recreational way because when it's again overnight, You don't
have to worry about the fact, you have to work, you, don't
worry about going to sleep. And that's one of my big things
is all, make copies during model.
Some type of I've watched that happen you have but so basically
try to recognize So basically try to recognize the benefits of
it, which sounds sort of try like a sort of like a cop out of
an answer, but it does have its uses and also my second part
would be just just forgive yourself.
Nobody's Perfect. It's just some things kind of
suck. They just do and the fact that
you, you know, are, you know, the fact that you're hyper focus
is often inconvenient or or Convenient.
But interrupted or whatever. It just kind of sucks.
And it's made worse by being mad at yourself for how you're
treating it. So, however, you're handling it.
It's okay. You're doing great.
You don't need to get mad at yourself for it.
I think my thing and this is something that like, I wish
somebody would have told me sooner.
Because, like, I talked about earlier, like I used to get so
angry at myself. Like why can't I pick a thing?
Like, why can't I stick to a thing?
But the fact of the matter is, is like every single thing that
I have ever done has Force. Some moment or some amount of
time brought me immeasurable Joy.
Hmm. And even after the fact even,
you know, like all of my blacksmithing stuff is in
Virginia. I haven't touched an iron in two
years, maybe even more. But like I still look back on on
like, the memories that I made learning how to make armor.
I still look back on like the experiences that I have because
I learned how to make armor like I got my job at the Renaissance
Festival because I casually threw in like, oh well, some
like Smith. And they're like, what?
But like those moments there is so much joy in the world and
there are so many beautiful things and some of them are
episodes of Doctor Who and some of them are the nights that you
spend just binging Grey's Anatomy with your college
roommate as a person who does not often feel Joy.
And as a person who struggles It's so much with depression and
loneliness, and I've felt so broken for so long.
The fact that within all of that hyper fixation and Hyper Focus
has allowed me to feel Joy, and find, joy and share Joy.
With other people that I think is maybe what makes the grief
worth it in the end. I was such a better answer than
mine gating. That's so good.
I was like trying to make it useful.
All right everybody. You were like the world is a
cruel place but I find it or glimmers in Maya, but I also, I
completely agree with that. I think, ultimately hyper-focus,
for me at least is a joyous experience, and although it's
fleeting like everything is you get to take your joy where you
can get it, And that's it. Thank you so much for listening
to this episode of infinite Quest.
We had a great time. Recording.
It didn't we Katie. We do is the best.
We definitely reported it. Just now, that's right now.
And we definitely are recording this part over again because we
forgot the music that would be silly.
I'm sorry. So.
Okay, could you just let me work?
Okay, I'm tired. My back hurts.
All right, are you just going to shake that, right?
Okay. Okay.
Well, if you want to support this nonsense, we do have a
patreon patreon.com infinite Quest.
It really goes a long way towards allowing us to work,
more on this, and spend less time, doing other things that
aren't related to this. We really appreciate it.
Thank you so much. And we'll see you next week.
When we talk about hygiene is more interesting in a sense
transition. There's no, it's not transition.
It's over.