Hello everybody. This is an episode of that
podcast that you listen to. We just wanted to do a quick
trigger warning at the beginning that in this second half of this
episode. So after the a drake, we will be
talking about self-harm and we, you know, freely and openly.
So if you don't want to hear that, then listen up to the ad
break, listen to the ad because it's amazing and then we'll see
you next week. But if not, then we'll see you
in the state having a drink. It's yeah, thanks for being.
In here everybody. Yeah, I don't have an exact time
stamp yet because we haven't added added the podcast.
Yes, but it's about, it's about 16 minutes in but yeah, you'll
hear, you'll hear it in the after the outbreak.
Anyways, now, to the episode transition.
Oh yeah. Okay.
T.i., how's it going? Not so good.
That's fine. I'm sorry about your foot.
It's okay. Hi, everybody.
Welcome back to well, okay, I'll do it in a different order, but
so sorry we didn't do an episode on Tuesday, but we were camping
for ares. First day, camp in time.
Hey, and then I sprained my ankle quite quite quite badly
that was kind of in a different order because it was like we we
got out of the car and then I sprained my ankle and then at
least. Okay.
And then we went and then we were sorry.
You did wasn't even unloaded by the time I managed to sprained
my ankle. So that was like fun.
I was, I mean, I'm not glad you sprained your ankle like, I'm
really, I'm sorry. You did obviously, am I glad you
sprained your ankle but it was easier for you to stay like
recumbent and not, yeah, do a bunch of stuff while you're
there because you like couldn't move around.
So great. Which again I'm not glad you
strange right now. It's like it was like that kind
of like for stressed you know like things like I wasn't like
the hammock was I was That was that was good times.
That was good times. Oh man, I set it up in the back.
By the way, I went to the hammock earlier today.
There's birds going, tweedily-dee, eat and stuff,
Audrey's all that mad about it. Tweedily Dee other like
tweedily-dee off. Fuck this fucking guy except a
hammock. Now, we gotta see him perform
for him like him. Tweedily dee deep, fuck.
Oh, that's what they said. Remember, gentlemen spontaneous.
I siloed, it's me a good. Welcome back to you.
Any question finish? Give me a, give me an a
Nicole. Barbershop quartet.
Okay yeah it was. God was God said I was going for
but I've been out of music school for like 10 years so I
forgot to do everything. That's okay.
So I'm sorry you in a lot of pain and yeah I was gonna
downplay it but no, I really heard but that's what I wanted
to talk about today. Haha.
Seamless transition way. In addition, we haven't done
that in so long, so long. Well, I guess we can't now
because we do mid-roll ads. We used to not do minerals.
Now, we do mid-roll ads big way now.
See, transition is better. Yes, transitions better.
But anyway, yeah. So I have been thinking a lot
about ADHD and pain lately because 18 paint is really
interesting topic. That I actually know a lot
about. For those of you who don't know,
aside from having a dumb sprained, ankle.
I also live with a condition called dystonia, which means
that That is a very expensive word for saying, sometimes I
twitch that's basically what happens pretty much but because
of that I deal with a lot of chronic pain and so when I first
got my ADHD diagnosis, I was I was really interested to find
out that a lot of people with ADHD live with chronic pain for
various reasons. It's not like dystonia is
actually kind of a rare one but a lot of people with ADHD have
Eller ello Stan, lers syndrome EDS I said that very wrong but
you're trying all cut out. That's whistling, we'll do a
second one. I'm gonna cut out the first a
lot of people with ADHD. Also have EDS, which, you can
look up the pronunciation of on Google fuck you.
Eric no. Like and so, like a lot of
people with ADHD deal with like joint issues and like over
flexibility and that kind of thing.
And also pain becomes really interesting.
When we talk about hyper fixation, ha ha surprise is
going to be an educational episode.
Y'all father's going to be another bullshit one but here we
go with the wisdom education. Who knows who?
So because pain like when the human body experiences pain,
there's a lot of different things that happen but one of
them is that it makes you more distractible and it makes you
more irritable and it makes you more sort of like focused on
just that experience. So you can imagine when you have
ADHD and you're also dealing with chronic pain and then all
of a sudden You say you sprained your ankle or something, it
becomes very, very hard to function.
A lot of people they need HT will sit there and they will
judge themselves and they'll say, oh well, I hurt my back
like why can't I write an email by just punch the microphone.
I just I punch my microphone at exactly the same time.
You did. That was wild.
That's cool. That was weird.
This is because of where we're just so bonded.
We are wholesome. But yeah.
So like a lot of people that he/she will be like, oh, I have
a Toothache or I have a backache.
Why can't I do anything? And it's like, well, spoilers
your executive dysfunction absolutely collapses.
When you're in pain and then you have ADHD.
And so, then you start hyper fixating on, like the pain or
like what it could be or whatever.
And it becomes this really interesting vicious cycle where
we can sort of scientifically show that people with ADHD
experience, pain differently. Hmm.
Yeah, what are do you You feel that since getting ready?
HD diagnosis. You've have a different
relationship with your chronic pain.
Then, I do want to know one of the big things for me was
learning that people with ADHD tend to have a higher pain
tolerance across the board. And it is because again of that
sort of distractibility element where if you're in pain, but
then you get distracted and you're doing your emails or
you're doing your chores or like whatever.
You can tend to not think about it like your brain will sort of
like dismiss it and so a lot of people with ADHD not everybody.
So Of them actually have a lot lower pain, tolerance for the
same reason, the many, many people with ADHD have a higher
pain tolerance, and it's because of that sort of like cyclical
attention of all. I'm not thinking about it.
But the thing that sucks about that is that say you have a
sprained ankle and you're supposed to stay off of it, but
you're, you know, watching your TV show, you realize, you have
to go get a snack or whatever. You are likely to forget about
that injury and then you step on it and then you make it worse
and then you're in more. And so then it becomes like
another one of those cycles and so is really really interesting
how that ADHD brain sort of like interprets and deals with pain.
Yeah, I was fun. My relationship with pain in
that in that sort of way is sort of like it's either.
You know, when like in the old Looney Tunes, cartoons like a
character would run off a cliff, but they didn't notice that they
ran off a cliff, so they just kept running.
And when they look down, yeah, they'll go.
Oh, and then they fall. Yeah.
I feel like it's either that, or I just forget that I'm in pain,
like four hours, because I'm whatever I might, We're focusing
on Minecraft or something like that.
Yeah. And then I'll just remember and
go. Oh, that's right.
Fuck aw. Jesus.
God damn it. Well, that's what happens with
little kids to, especially, like little kids with ADHD with
injured all the time, like, have like random Cuts, random
bruises, random, like through thing.
That was his exact same thing. Is that, you know, they fall
down on the playground, they go. Oh, oh, that hurt but then they
go off and play with her friends and then they look down in there
like bleeding profusely. And it's like because like our
brain, just don't interpret those pain signals the same way.
It's not like Immediate focus is absolutely.
Just that one and then the other one for me at least is I'll
either that we're all like totally get distracted by their
stuff and I just want remember that I'm in pain which is great
in the moment but also like not the point of pain.
It's supposed to hurt so that you do some little bit.
Yeah unless it's bullshit ass fucking bullshit.
Chronic pain which case is just being a dick but or like, I will
get keep going to distracted by the paint like the fact that I
can't Cause like, you know, if you're, you know, obviously the
point of pain is for your body to Signal like hey, something's
wrong down here and I'm gonna make it unpleasant until you do
something about it. But now unlike modern day it's
like, okay, I get that. My fucking leg is hurt.
I am aware, I'll stay off of it. You can stop fucking hurting.
Now, that's just not our bodies work.
I have a really hard time like convincing myself of that part
where it's like. Okay, my leg is hurt, it's going
to hurt. On with it now.
We're all like try to go about my normal life but the pain key
is just because the pain isn't something that I can
compartmentalize. It's it's the same as all the
other random shit that's going on.
That I have trouble sorting through because of executive
dysfunction. It's like, all right, I've got
dishes and it's hot in here. And why does it smell like toast
and my foot hurts? And I can't be like, okay, but
dishes is the thing that's important.
So like no matter what I'm doing, the pain will always just
sort of sneak back in, or I completely fucking forget about
it. It's never one of the other or
it's never both. Yeah.
Now what and it also there's I'm so interested in pain and ADHD.
I'm sorry. This is like one of my weird
Niche topics but there's also the time perception thing people
with ADHD scientifically, they have tested it perceive time
differently and so exactly what you were saying.
Where it's like if you hurt your ankle, it's very easy to be
like, well, I have felt like this forever and I will continue
to feel like this for forever. When in reality it's like no you
sprain your ankle. You're going to feel like this
for like a week. So there can be that element of
like the timeline of pain can feel much longer than it
actually is or it can be a lot shorter than it is and then you
start like you like yeah, I sprained my ankle like last week
I'm fine and it's like, no you sprained her ankle, two days
ago, you really need to keep saying off of it and so that
becomes part of the conversation as well.
It's, there's so much to it. Yeah.
Who's I mean, it is amazing how whenever I think about, you
know, so you can put my foot on, you know, you may put your foot
down. Oh, sorry, this was like fucking
a call. I'm sorry sweets.
It's called. Damn it.
Aged man. But whenever I've always has
anyone ever, I like, explorers hapag either in my brain or it's
like the research of ADHD and blank.
Yeah. It always comes back to time our
relationship to time. Like so like for example, I
broke my collarbone Did you really 14 years ago?
I didn't know that. Yeah, you can actually see it.
There's a little. Oh, you can tell you can feel it
more than you can see it now. But actually fun fact.
Broke my collarbone and I was young, I was like 13 or 14 and
in my like privileged ass white kids life.
I was always like, you can be anything you want, like all that
stuff? What you know, that's true.
Like I'm not knocking that. Like, yes, if you are a child,
listen to this, you can be whatever you want, fucking go
for it kid, but when I broke my collarbone, it's you can see it.
It like I'm not symmetrical anymore.
My one shoulder sticks out like a little bit further than the
other one. Like you get, if you measure it,
you can see it, but you can't just say it.
But anyways, I remember the doctor joked.
When I was, like in the doctor place, he joked that I could
never be a model. Because doctor was wrong.
Have you seen yourself? Well, thanks pops.
But those are because sitting at home, Eric is very attractive.
Thanks. Oh yeah.
Do you guys you know models don't just have to like look
like models but you know they get close made for them and
stuff and if one shoulder is a different length, it just made
creates all sorts of problems in the modeling industry.
Apparently so anyways, that was the first time I was ever told
in my life that I straight-up could not be something like that
is off the table for you. Who knows if he was like right
or not but like, you know, that was a weird moment where I was
like, oh shit, like I'm aging I'm not immortal.
Jesus Christ. I mean, I was 13 or whatever,
but anyways, I broke my collarbone and I still to this
day will be like doing something and go be careful on your
collarbone. You know.
Like you just broke your collarbone but not like an idle
thought of like, you know, haha silly me.
I got into the habit of being cautious about my collarbone
because I broke it. Like I'll sink it for like a
minute like you know, Bobby how I can't really do that because
my colleague, huh, like dude, that was so long ago, like
you've jumped off of things since then, like it is fine.
But It is amazing, how it always comes back down to time because
everything is intrinsically related to time because it had
time is what is necessary for anything to occur and so if your
relationship to time is fucking weird, then your relationship to
everything is fucking weird, including pain?
Yeah, as I think, like, one of the things that I hear a lot
from, well I'm going to say myself first, because I hear it
a lot for myself, but also just from like a lot of people with
ADHD is the The the sort of like double-edged sword of like being
in pain but then you're like you're only really like
perceiving that pain part of the time.
And so then the Imposter syndrome and the rejection
sensitivity comes in and you're like, oh well I must be faking
because I'm not thinking about my ankle 100% of the time like
oh I must be making it up or over exaggerating I must be
being overdramatic which is something that a lot of
neurodivergent people here. Anyway, a lot of neurodivergent
people hear about things like sensory issues that they're just
being Overly sensitive or they're being overdramatic or
they're exaggerating or whatever.
And so for a lot of people with ADHD there is also a note to
say, I don't want to say trauma because I won't want to give
that word. It like it's appropriate weight.
But there is a lived experience to experiencing things like pain
where a lot of times we will push through and we will we will
push ourselves harder than we. Should because of that sort of
internalized, they're just going to think I'm exaggerating or
they're just going to think. I'm making it up especially for
the people with ADHD who have a lower pain tolerance, you know?
Hmm. I always liked as a kid.
I got injured a lot. Like just didn't, you know,
ranging from small to big but like I joked when we were
camping in you wear your foot that like I'm just surprised.
It wasn't me because it was it was like a joke through my in my
family that like, whenever we went on vacation, Eric is going
to the It's sometimes it was like because I did a dumb thing,
sometimes it was like it turns out I'm allergic to a certain
type of tide or whatever that they used in a hotel or
whatever. But as I was always like just
getting vaguely injured. Also in a DHA thing also an ADHD
thing, very much so. And so part of I think part of
me, I mean I'm way better about it now because I'm like an adult
and Evan you know working on it for a decade Plus or whatever.
But when I was a kid whenever I was hurt, it was usually my
fault. I'm sorry.
Level it was usually I wasn't getting enough dopamine or
stimulus out of a given situation that I was in.
And you know what would really bump up the stimulus but doing
stick in my eye. Well sometimes I mean I suppose
we'll get to that in the second half of the episode but like
yeah, sometimes it was literally deliberately inflicting pain on
myself such that I would just have some more stuff going on
and wouldn't be bored, but a lot of it was like just doing an
unadorned ill-advised Like I wonder if I could drop in off of
that thing with my skateboard even though I've never tried
once and it's really tall but there are people watching and it
would make them laugh and then I would like it was just yeah I
mean I was a Class Clown of in ways which I used to think was
like a negative term. It's like no, you just like
making people laugh but it's a lot of it was self-inflicted.
So I there was a sense of guilt around it where like if I was
hurt you know sure somebody all you hurt your foot or whatever
it's like yeah but because I was being an idiot you know it
wasn't because like some I was I wasn't unfortunate like I did a
stupid fucking thing. And so now I still feel that
whenever I get like injured or hurt my hand or hurt, my butter,
my whenever I have to like look through the situation and go
like was that because I was being Reckless, you know, which
spoiler you can paint is still paying even.
If it's quote, unquote, your false, you know.
But I still noticed that like because of my ADHD as a kid and
how often I would get, you know not like huge crazy bone
breaking injuries but you know I would land on my shoulder weird
or I would scrape. The shit out of my whatever, you
know? Just because of the frequency of
that eye, I definitely feel the urge to hide pain more because
it's like, was probably my fault.
Even if it wasn't, that's just my initial Instinct.
It was probably my fault. That's a really interesting
Insight transition a panicked. I'm sorry.
Okay. Now seems like as good a time as
any to talk about our new sponsor even geek therapeutic.
That's the very same one. You mean the fine folks who
offer evidence-based certifications to clinician
social workers professionals parents teachers and students on
how to use geek therapy to unlock the best version of the
your clients and yourselves by Bridging, the Gap between Geeks
and therapist, to create practical and Innovative
therapy, sessions that anyone can Implement, in their
practice. You had that just write all
memorized. Red hot, go.
That's a pro right there. Yeah.
That's exactly what I'm talking about.
But in all seriousness, I Eric and I are super, super excited
to announce our official partnership.
With geek Therapeutics, they're an organization that we are
fascinated by an excited by, and we want 100% believe in the work
that they do, and it really is not just for fancy therapist.
Folks it is for teachers, for parents for educators for
Teacher RPG, players for DMS who just want to learn more about
geek stuff and how to incorporate it into the lives of
their family and their friends, and their kids.
And and just do this really useful.
Useful stuff, they activate specialize in things like
Supernatural, Pokemon, Zelda, Final Fantasy, meme culture,
Dungeons & Dragons. If it's nerdy, they do it.
And several more that we can tell you about.
But we know about, because, and working with them, and we're
really excited. I'm gonna be super cool.
If you want to learn to be a therapeutic game master, if
that's your thing, they can do that for you, too.
That's a great way to learn how to build a better Adventure.
Keep people safe. Encourage personal growth that
your table ulcer to good stuff and if you are one of those
fancy affirmation to therapists and they Have certifications
that are accredited by the APA. The nbcc, the AC, the APT.
They offer cultural competency courses to encourage, diversity
and inclusivity. They offer courses on
problematic gaming. They offer just the whole geek
therapeutic certification Ace. It's worth scrolling through
this. I'm pretty amazing classes on
there and if you're looking for therapy yourself, they also
offer therapy that you can find on their website, you can even
find a geek therapy certified therapist near you find
yourself. Therapist who understands love
for Sam and Dean. Okay, team this, you were calm.
For more information, please take a look at their website.
They're an incredible organization.
We're so excited to be working with them, and for books, and
for courses, and for videos and all that good stuff, that is not
therapy. You can get 10% off your order
with code infinite Quest. I'm so excited to do all this
stuff for about to be doing what we're going to be hearing a lot
about us and geek Therapeutics in the coming while and I'm so
stoked about, it's gonna be amazing.
But hey, we should keep talking about that thing that we were
talking. Oh yeah.
This episode. It's really it's going the best
one I've ever long. Hard to chew on the chugging
train. Let's go get back to it.
Okay, here we go. Let's go.
Do, do do, do do. Wow, that was a really good
advertisement. That was what a gold-plated
sponsorship. We have whiskey therapeutic
sashka Therapeutics. Oh, I love it so much, so cool.
I that add it, sounded crisper and bouncier than last week.
Did it? Maybe that's all in my head.
It didn't I didn't do anything yet.
It's the same at a crisp hard transition.
So we're about to start talking about.
I did not It says it's a really good transition but when we
there was a trigger warning at the beginning of the episode but
just another reminder when we're talking about pain sometimes you
make yourself in pain on purpose and we call that self-harm.
So we're probably going to talk about that a little bit and if
that's not something I want to hear about, don't listen to the
real listening. Yeah up here.
Stop here. Goodbye.
Anyways, you love you remember to you snag.
Remember drinks water? Remember to take a reservoir.
We kind of stuff. Be kind of others.
The Tweek, I don't want to say I feel bad.
I feel like they're they're you know, we appreciate you being
here. Yeah.
Okay. We will pause for a second.
Okay. Now we're going to start.
Yeah. So okay, so pain, so pain.
Well yeah. I mean sometimes pain happens to
us track down sometimes pain happens.
Well, it still happens to you but it's a pain.
Can be a choice. Yeah, I think it can be an
unhealthy choice, but it also, It says the king had to cater.
It can be a healthy choice. And so there's line that line is
very into that line is episode and I don't have 12 minutes to
unpack them. But yeah I mean I there's no way
I mean outside of just ADHD there's no way for you and me
you Katie and me Eric to talk about pain without addressing
the fact that a lot of the times that I've been in excruciating
pain, I've been deliberate. I did it on purpose.
I wanted to be an excruciating pain so I did it has been
studied and which I also think is really interesting, but the
rates of self-harm in people with ADHD especially adolescent
girls with ADHD are much much higher than the general
population. It is it is a striking
percentage and it is and sort of like looking at those studies
and looking at some of like the research that's been done.
It's a dopamine thing. It is a serotonin thing.
It is a wanting an immediate situation to deal with rather
than sort of like languishing in that like ADHD paralysis Bailey.
Okay bails. I'll cut it at paralysis from
there and so I think it's a really uncomfortable topic but I
think it's one that is really important to be aware of if you
have ADHD or you you know you love and care for somebody with
ADHD because like it's a it's a real issue that affects a lot of
people with ADHD and it's one that we don't talk about a lot
because it can be really sort of like I don't to say embarrassing
but it can be difficult to talk about and frame in a way that
doesn't seem like it's being encouraged.
You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, I mean for the record
we are not. We are not, I'm not.
Yes, please do not please, do not sell Farm outside of a very
controlled Kink environment which again, is just a different
episode entirely. If it happens, is that sounds
confusing. But if, you know, you know,
yeah, I mean, I it's this phrase gets tossed around a lot. but I
got the there it you know for good reason, I'm going to use it
here but I think it's important to try to break this thing about
around self-harm because A lot more people than you think do it
a lot more people than you think do it.
And a lot of times, it's what's the word?
It's sustained its perpetuated by the fact that it's secret.
I think a lot of times unhealthy secret sort of fortify
themselves because their secrets and everyone.
I my relationship to self-harm sort of started.
My self harming was very I would say maybe 10 to 15 percent of
the time and that was later in life.
Like in my 20s, maybe ten forty to fifty percent of the time was
actually out of like depression and anger towards myself and
wanting to hurt myself because I was angry at myself or thought I
deserved it or something like that, most of the time it was
out of boredom. It was that it was just out of
boredom. There wasn't anything going on
and you know, it would be interesting if I was bleeding
badly from the laki, you know? Like that's, you know, one It it
helped. How is it?
I don't know, I didn't help that's not the word, but in a
way it was refreshing to have something.
So, immediate that had such an immediate solution because if
you're like finances are not in order which might never are like
the way to solve that problem is a lot of incremental, little
things virtually, none of which have any dopamine in them.
But if you're like injured and now, you're you've wrapped the
thing and you've treated the whatever, like, Like that's a
very immediate solution to a very immediate problem that has
definitive benefits. Like, I'm bleeding and I would
like to not be bleeding anymore or I'm burned and I don't want
to get in fact, like, it's a very immediate thing.
Like suddenly task prioritization, is not something
that you struggle with anymore, because duh, you that's the
thing you have to do right now. So you a lot of my self harm is
based on that. And the reason I didn't want to
bring it up because I didn't want to explain that to people.
I didn't, you know, if I was 15 and Get taken to the counselor's
office because they find a whatever on my body.
It was very understandably, I'm glad they handled it very well.
But they assumed it was because I was going through depression
or going through her, which I was, but that's not where the
self harm came from. And it was really hard to
explain to like therapists and stuff.
Like, no, I don't do it because I am angry at myself.
I think I deserve it. Although, later that what
happened. It's just because I was fucking
bored. Like I was bored and I wanted
something to do and something interesting.
I'm stimulating something, you know, that would really Peak the
amount of stuff going on in my brain at any given time.
And it took a long time to sort of get people who understood
that. And I didn't realize that that
was probably due to my ADHD was just, I was dopamine start and I
needed something to be going. I needed a release of chemicals
in my brain. Well, that's, that's literally
what I was about to say, is, like, one of the challenges with
self-harm is that it can become addictive.
And Actually, to the ADHD brain because I'm two years clean, by
the way, just over Harrison's. Thanks, really proud of you.
And I just, I didn't mean I wasn't gonna like it, but I was
just thinking, I was like, holy shit.
It's been over two years now like that's pretty cool for you.
Cheers, how long have, you know, me too?
But yeah, like self-harm can become an addictive thing
because of the chemicals that are released when your body is
Is in pain, right? So you get like the dopamine,
you get the, the oxytocin out, you get the, you get the
adrenaline, like all of that kind of stuff.
But also Eric, what is something else that we know about ADHD
brains? They tend to be very skewed
towards addictive behaviors. Yes, very much.
So 50% of people with ADHD will experience some sort of
addiction and problems in their life.
Yes. And so again general population
it's such Such a bigger problem than just like the self-harm
itself. It becomes The Addictive
Behavior becomes, the dopamine seeking.
It becomes like the solution to that boredom, and then it
becomes a self-perpetuating cycle.
So rough 12, because you need a thing to do it.
We really don't do this. Yeah, and I mean, just speaking,
I think very candidly maybe for the first time about this, I
don't speak for you but I definitely have experience with
self-harm. And yes, yes very much certainly
do a. So and so we both that was like
one of the things that I remember talking about really
early on when I met you was that kind of like experience of like
yeah there's a thing that you know, used to happen.
Yeah. Well it's it is one of those
things you know, when you're a I don't want to say like an addict
because the, you know, but when you when you indulge in
compulsive Or frequently and start to lose control of it.
Holy shit talking to somebody who gets it.
Who knows is just a best fucking thing in the world.
Oh my God. Like, when I started meeting
people who had a history of self-harm but just for the
novelty of it, just because they thought the scars looked cool or
because they were curious what it would feel like, or whatever.
And not have it. Be a depression thing was So
refreshing to me, because it was like, oh, I'm what, I'm not
alone, but also, this isn't. Well, no, well, I'm not alone
like because in in movies and TV and all the stuff whenever
somebody self-harming. It's because it's because of
depression, or something horrible happened.
And that's very real. And the thing too, but I always
felt like, my self harm was like fake.
Self-harm. Like it was, you know, it wasn't
like the cool kids self-harm because of something that
happened or whatever. It was just bored.
Self harm and like meeting other people.
That did that I think was like, sort of the path to me realizing
that I didn't have to do that, you know, because I figure out,
you know, add more data points. I talked to them about why they
did in there. Like, you know, they would say
very similar things to me are like, oh well, you know, it's
just something to do and it's you know, interesting and
whatever and it's like well there are other things to do
that are also interesting. You know, I mean it's you know
we talked earlier about like breaking the stigma and I think
like it's a really uncomfortable.
Inaudible conversation to talk about like are topics to talk
about, you know, like I don't really like discussing my
history with it because one, I don't want to be seen as
encouraging it. I don't want to be seen as like
advocating for it, but I keep like talking about the studies
but it's something that I've really looked into and like
looking at the studies looking at the research been done.
It is a really common experience for people with ADHD and then
you sort of get into that. That like the overlap of ADHD
and autism, where a lot of people also struggle with things
like interception and proprioceptive.
And so sometimes whether the paint, like, whether it be
self-harm or whether it just be like, oh, I don't know where my
hands are in space because I struggle with spatial awareness,
it can be really easy too. Like injure yourself and it can
be really easy to experience like pain in that way as well.
And so yeah it's a really it's like a it's a messy or topic
that I think You like, you know, you sort of pull the thread of
like how I sprained my ankle and then you start thinking about
like this and that the other thing and then when it gets
really big really quickly it doesn't mean something.
We also have been brought up here as impulse control.
Oh yeah, where the the the path between thinking about doing
something and doing something is a much shorter path.
If you have ADHD the significantly shorter path and
what's the what's the task or no correlation?
Oh task utilization? Yeah, exactly.
Behavior like holding Thing that cuts stuff like yeah, what can I
cut that? Surround me, you know.
Yeah, and also well this might be a bit but also cortical
inhibition, where just when your brain thinks body do this
normally like a neurotypical person's nervous system will go.
Are you sure about it? I don't know, you're nervous.
And we'll try to stop is always trying to stop you from doing
everything that you do. And if you really want to do it
enough, your brain will override that and you'll end up making a
sandwich or moving your Armand, the way that you were going to
move it or whatever person with ADHD is nervous, system doesn't
do that as well. So when we think I'm going to
move my arm, there's a lot of less checks and balances before
we actually do and we knock shit over all time.
I want you to know that in this moment.
Every fiber of my being wanted me to just reach over and smack
you in the face. I thought that too.
I was like, that's, it was something tomorrow.
Absolutely. Just talking over for the bit
rate that I didn't because I love you.
Cortical and ambition achieved. Yeah.
But yeah, I mean I had a I had a I had a fucking to that to that
today. Yeah I mean II like to talk
about it more but I don't, I I genuinely get nervous that I'm
Making it more likely that anybody listening to this or
watching a video that I make about it.
I'm making it more likely. That old delegation self-harm.
Behaviour. Don't Don't ya just don't do
that. You know, there are other things
to do, there's anything and frankly like a lot of the
strategies that are used in terms of like breaking the
self-harming cycle are things that are actually really useful
as well for like neurodivergent brains.
Like I know a lot of people have heard this one but like the Ice
Cube thing where you like holding ice cube really tight
but that's that's like really that's like really useful for a
lot of like neurodivergent people.
It's really grounding it's Like sensory oriented like that kind
of stuff. As you, there's other the rubber
band snap thing to that one. I don't hear advocated for as
much by like professionals dice que o.
The thing about the ice, I feel like we should but something you
might hear a therapist or mental health professional recommend to
somebody transom. Self-harm is to just put an ice
cube in their hand and just hold it there.
Yeah because one it doesn't like hurt immediately if you hold it
for a while, it kind of starts to hurt but it doesn't do tissue
damage and it's can sort of replace that part of your You
know, the thing that you eat it, can, it can replace it in the
moment. It can help you get past an
urge. But something that I think is
probably not the thing to bring up at the very end of the
podcast. That's okay, but I know some of
y'all are thinking it because I'm thinking it and I thought it
for a long time is well, what's the difference between like
self-harming and tattooing and it's my fucking body and I'm
only hurting myself and I consent so why can't I?
Well fact the matter is, you can it's not illegal to you can The
way that. And so for years and it's from
when I first started, self-harming at like 12 to know
me. Early 20s.
Probably the sentiment for me was that.
It's like it's my fucking body. I consent to it.
I'm not hurting anybody else. You know, even if it's unsafe.
Like I know it's unsafe and I'm concerned you.
So fuck you who are you to tell me?
Not to which. Okay but the way the thing that
I eventually landed on was is it Anna?
Expression of respect and love for your body, or is it, or is
it an expression of disregard or contempt for your body?
So thanks so for me, you know, even when I was self-harming
just out of boredom, it certainly wasn't showing respect
to my body. It wasn't out of degradation.
I wasn't actively trying to tell my body to go fuck itself but it
was certainly wasn't a respectful thing to do to my
body. I wasn't respecting it, you
know, whereas something like a tattoo, you're decorating your
buddy or expressing that you love.
Body or have of relate, you know, your decorated decorating.
Something is inherently a sign of respect for it.
Or if you're into like a king seen in, there's some pain
involved in that like you're having respect for your
partner's body and your own body.
And you're engaging in a loving consensual essential, of course,
consensual celebratory thing, yeah?
Because ultimately the harm in, self-harm one can be purely
physical, it can be dangerous. If you're using tools that
aren't sterile, you know, like it can be literally, physically,
dangerous, so, First and foremost, obviously that but
let's say like, well I'm using super sterilized stuff and I'm
being very safe. In fact, let's just say you're a
fucking trained surgeons like you know the body's inside like
you are very aware of how you could physically hurt yourself
without actually doing / serious permanent damage.
Go off Hannibal Lecter, he wasn't a surgeon.
Well you probably could have been a surgeon if he's one of
those guys, he's like secretly a surgeon, you know, whatever.
But So let's say all that is the case.
So this is zero chance of of unanticipated permanent physical
damage or or impermanent physical damage.
So let's just say that when you consistently disrespect your
body in a self-harm, each I provide or at worst, you know,
deliberately denigrate your body, it just slowly chips away
at how much you value your own safety and how much you value
yourself. Ultimately doesn't feel like At
the time at the time, you're just like, I'm bored on a
Saturday and I mean, for me, one time I literally just needed
paint for a model that I was doing, but it was like, 2:00 in
the morning and I was like, I just needed to be a different
color. Sorry.
But that is a true story, you know, at the time you're not,
like, I'm not angry at my body, not just, but over time, you
start to associate your body, as being something that's
Expendable as being something that, you know, you could take
or leave it being something that's worthy of disrespect.
So that when other people do it, you go, well, I fuckin do it
too, you know, sure. And that's I think the real bad
part of self of long-term. Self-harm is that it's slowly
erodes. Your, the respect you have your
body and irosian that isn't present.
When you talk about things like tattoos or even like deliberate
scarring like you know brands or whatever it was a trendy singer,
whatever scarification, exactly like that's like a celebration.
That's that's a sign of respect for your body which is again,
not to say that I completely condone anybody listening this
to self-harm as long. Long as it's respectful to their
body. Like I don't want to say that.
But anyways, so that's sort of how I got around the fact that
like, it's my body. Fuck you.
Who are you to tell me what to do with it?
It's like, well, you're right. They can't tell you what to do
with it. But, you know, also, you don't
want to just slowly degrade your own respect for your physical
form as yeah, it's the only one you got bud.
Every single said, thanks, I hope so, I don't know.
Well, thanks for listening to this episode that started up and
about so far we were starting to do this episode in cases.
Like yeah, I'd love to talk about like pain because I'm in
pain all the stuffs like yeah. And right before we started
recording a little dingy went off in my head and I was like,
wait a minute. If we're talking about pain,
there is zero fucking chance though.
We're not gonna bring up self-harm at some point and so
we're like fuck it. Let's just do the second half of
the episode. I feel like I talked a lot
through that but that's okay. I have more experience with
self-harm that I usually talk about.
Oh look, I am grateful for you sharing.
I'm sure our listeners are two. Thanks, I hope so couple of
announcements, but one up for one last thing.
Unless thing I'm just because this is really quite an
incredible thing to have in your back pocket.
If you are experiencing self harm, or if you are having
problems of self-harm and you're showing you feel like you can't
control. It is really scary and I'm
really sorry but try to picture yourself as a child as like a
five-year-old and imagine hurting that five-year-old in
the way that you're about to hurt yourself.
Would you ever do that? Hopefully the answer is now but
that is stopped me a good many number of times.
Although one time, Eric asked me what he thought, what I thought
five, real Katie would think of my dog, and I still cry about
that every time I think about it.
I just want to throw that into the pile.
It's really useful for a lot of things, really just fun.
It really is, if you're ever, you know, like, would you would
you, you know, if you're able to get in the car drunk or
something? Like, if your five-year-old self
was in the back seat, would you fucking put your yourself in
that situation? Like no, you wouldn't you?
That's still you. Like you're doing the same thing
but it's still you you're just older now.
Anyways yeah there's and I also just want to say like there,
you're really not alone. That was something that I really
struggled with two, because I was the same way in my periods
of self-harm. I felt very isolated, I felt
very embarrassed, I felt very ashamed and so I speak for both
of us. When I just want to let you know
that you're not alone, if that's something that you're struggling
with and you're not a bad person if you're struggling with it.
We will link some resources and stuff in the show.
Notes that may or may not be helpful to you, but we just want
to encourage you, like we do always to treat yourself kindly
because you are worthy of love and you are worthy of care.
And you are worried worthy of respect and don't keep it
secret. Talk to somebody about somebody
who's never be your parents, although pure but just talk to
somebody about it Secrets fortify.
Yeah. Now I'm going to very awkwardly
transition to the announced and like super heavy and it also,
but Ann's also just a few reminders, one, Eric and I are
going to be appearing in two weeks at the convergence at
Evermore Park in Utah. If you want to come and play
some D and D, if you want to come hang out at Evermore Park.
If you want to see Eric build a trebuchet, all those things are
happening. Similarly in May, We Eric and I
have been offered the opportunity to partner with a
fantastic ADHD organization that is doing a retreat in a Mexico.
And several spots have opened up for that they are we can offer
them at a discounted price to you.
So if you are not doing anything at the end of May, or you would
like more information, email us a skit.
Infinite Quest podcast.com there's really a lot of info and
I don't know, like spend the next like 10 minutes explaining
the whole thing but there are a few seats available and we'd
love to see them filled by folks from infinite Quest Nation.
So if you're interested again TM TM TM, feel free to reach out to
us at every was podcast. No, just kidding asked at
infinite cost. Podcast.com also, do you like
boats? Do you like really big boats?
I do like boats here because you know what's going to happen?
What is we're going to be on one.
The Titanic I want to be on the Titanic, although I did just
watch a video on the old tactic. I talk talk, I talk of the
people who restored, the salvaged whistles so they like
brought him up from the ocean and they're sort of and then
restore them to make them go off so you can hear it.
Yeah. And it was spooky they're like
wow like they were like they kept talking about like it was
just a job to us, you know, we wanted to wear restorers, but
right before we like tested them all together for the first time
we were like holy shit. Nobody has heard this.
That's That's wild in nobody love live as heard these both
these well actually no there are still two attendings around.
Maybe 100 know, I think 111 now I don't write checks or
survivors anymore. I believe Rose was the last
question. The last of them died trying to
get the fucking necklace. But yeah that was funny.
I was that was pretty good. The last ones I try to get the
necklace bios. Okay.
You bunch of like octogenarians just like scuba gear and up like
all right all right we're good who's gotten through?
Again, goddamn it Rose, goddamn it Rose sitting on the dead
guys. Passing out sketch of.
All time was announced catch his weary like she got a loo, look
at the end and then I think it's like Kenan Thompson comes out.
He's like, we have a dive team. We're just going to go get, you
didn't have to do that. Like this.
We already went down there like this whole thing was, like, this
is we've already been down there.
We're just gonna go get it. Like now, you just made a bunch
of extra work. Good job, Rose like, it was
really funny. No, be really mean if she just
claimed to have misplaced it. Yeah, sorry, I lost it.
I lost it in the last five minutes.
I had email us. Actually know hashtag.
I'm going to make a new podcast hashtag.
Oh, yeah, if you're still listening and if you are thanks.
Hi. Please tag, infoquest podcast
and use the hashtag I to owned the Heart of the Ocean because
if you were like me, when you were in junior high and you
watch Titanic, and then he went to Claire's and you bought the,
the duplicate Heart of the Ocean, and you thought you were
the hottest fucking It Eric, I really like how you have your
phone on during our podcast recording, everybody from me.
Now, I am going to be running three games across three
different nights, none of them are D&D.
We're going to be running, I think for the queen microscope
and I want to say quiet year, I Haven't really decided yet but
it's going to be great. No, prior experience is
necessary, the group of DMS and people who are coming out as
just it is it is a veritable who's who in the TT RPG space.
So if you like to come hang out with some very cool people on a
boat, you can do that to really big bone, I will also be there.
I'm not doing anything in any official capacity because they
were like, hey do you want to be at the table?
And I was like, yeah but they're like, okay.
But it's going to take up the spot from somebody who could
also be at the table and I was like so Eric is gonna hit the
buffet. So I'm going to be just eating
and probably crafting out of various things that I can find
all over the ship and trying to convince them to let me see
like, the galley and stuff. I've had that.
Well, I'm pretty good at getting places to get really freaky on
getting to see kitchens that you're not supposed to say.
I literally can't even say which kitchens I've seen, because the
people who showed me were like, please, seriously.
Don't tell anybody we showed you this, because we're in trouble,
because secret kitchen excess. So God damn it phone Rick.
Okay, let's see. This.
We're at like 35 minutes. That's well hey everybody, thank
you all so much for listening. We will be back next week.
Maybe with some more Senoia Springs.
Whole, I'm excited for it. I'm nervous and excited.
We need a table in our new Booth.
That's what do we need? Oh, that's real you all we could
do is have like a board. Spend the rest of the fucking
day doing that. Goddamn.
Hey, we can you make me a snack first?
Yes, thanks from all of us. What is a podcast?
Really good in the last like, five minutes.
Kind of this region a bullshit stride.
We don't. Yeah we really try to be like
smart educational and then step aside, I don't think about
starting another podcast on the infinite Quest Network that's
like us but it's just there's no point to the podcast.
It's not an idiot Steve I guess. And then it's just yes, I was
digging around in who's that's what most like, people most
podcasts to that. And a lot of them are quite
successful Katie, but successful while we're also thinking about
splitting the podcast into. Yeah, this is yeah, I feel like
this would be a listener. Feedback thing.
We'll do a poll on Spotify. Oh yeah, I'll put a link.
You listen on Spotify will do a poll but it's not still
listening. That means you like to show.
Smell us a task. It in request podcast.
Also, I hope your wife is going well, and I hope your dishes are
almost done. I hope the drive is going well,
and I hope your I wonder also email us and asking and for
quest.com, if you were sitting in your driveway right now,
waiting for the episode to finish in which case, I'm sorry.
But oh we're thinking of splitting the podcast into two
podcasts because we do In episodes and we do not gaming
episodes and so we find ourselves like at conventions
and stuff when they're like, oh, do you have a gaming podcasts?
Like, yes. But you have to scroll through
all of them to find the ones that are coming up us Odes.
And so we're thinking about starting a completely separate
podcast, that will it's still like infinite Quest Network, so
it'll have like the watermark on it.
So it's still us but that's just the gaming episodes so that you
can listen to those without having to scroll through the
other ones. I don't fucking know.
Anyways, if you think that's a good idea you'd like us to do
it. Answer accordingly in the poll.
If you think is bad idea and you don't want to do it, fuck you.
No, I'm kidding. Um from all of us here in
infinite crust podcast eat a snack.
I remember the order but I'm gonna try to get out.
I mix up the order, sometimes a fresh.
Remember to eat a snack. Drink some water.
Take your meds, huh? Huh?
I was curious what you're gonna say.
Uh, after I said, I was just like, you know, that you're
cracked so far. I figured you just take your
meds be kind to yourself. Be kind to others.
I know I'm missing one. There's obviously there's a
remember that we love you is the ending but like know you had
them all. I got that's all.
Oh and remember that we love you, thanks for listening.
Everybody will see you next week.
Bye. Thanks again, to Geeks
Therapeutics for sponsoring this episode.
Just a reminder, you can get 10% off your order on their website
geek Therapeutics.com by using promo code infinite Quest.
Please do check them out. What they do is really amazing
and we're just so stoked to work with them.
They have a new book. Look on the psychology of Elden
ring coming out and you just might see a little forward from
yours truly in there. Maybe, hmm knows.
If you'd like to help support the podcast, you can do.
So by visiting patreon.com infinite Quest and signing up to
be a member. And if you do, you get your name
in a song, Eventually, you can also get a bunch of infinite
Quest merch, that we forgot we made at Redbubble.com.
People /, infinite Quest. There's there's some stuff on
there, anyways. Bye everybody, thanks for
listening, bye.