My mom is upset that I'm recording this episode, and when
I told my mom that I was recording this episode, my mom
asked me several times in several different ways.
Why, why do you need to talk about sex and ADHD?
Why do you need to put your personal business on the
internet? Why do you need to share stuff
about your personal sex life with people and the answer comes
from dr. Job will come Andy who published
a study in July of 2020, entitled study on sex function
in adults with ADHD. And in that study, he concluded
that women with ADHD experience astronomically, higher rates of
low, desire low arousal, struggle to orgasm lower sexual
satisfaction, and more pain and struggle to become aroused
during sex. Along the same lines.
He also discovered that men with ADHD are struggled to orgasm and
struggle with sex drive and struggle with erectile
dysfunction and struggle with satisfaction at much much higher
rates than neurotypical men. And that is something that I
didn't know until July of 2020. I've struggled with sex my
entire life. I have struggled with body image
my entire life and I say over and over and over again, that
there is just some stuff that they leave out of their
brochure. And sex and ADHD.
And I guess maybe a better way of saying it is a th Dee's
impact, on your sex life is profound.
And so today, I have decided that I don't care.
If my mom is mad at me for airing my personal business on
the internet, because this is something that I am, deeply
deeply passionate about educating Young people about and
I feel like there's so much shame and there is so much.
Anxiety wrapped up in Sex and ADHD, I feel like it's kind of
time to talk about it. Hey everybody, it's me.
Katie asaurus and welcome to episode 17 of infinite Quest.
Before we begin, we just wanted to let you know that this week's
episode is all about sex. We don't get graphic or
anything, but we do believe that consent works both ways and so
we wanted to let you know that this week's episode is
definitely not safe for work unless you're listening on
headphones and have a really good poker face that I suppose
anything could be safe. I work next, we just want to let
you know that we are really close to achieving our goal of
getting 100 reviews up on iTunes by the end of the month.
Leaving us a review costume nothing but a little tiny bit of
your time and it helps us out more than you could ever know.
I'll be back at intermission with a few more announcements
but for now, sit back, relax and let's talk about sex baby.
I just realized that I don't actually know how the song goes
transition. That was a weird wide-open
podcast, but here we are. Hi, Eric Katie, how's it going?
That's good. It was beautiful speech.
Male species. Speech.
That was lovely. That's fine.
But I just like it's been on my mind.
It's been on my lap. My mind a lot lately.
And I was thinking about how how much I have learned since July
of 2012. Like it's it's January of twenty
Twenty-One, happy New Year, happy New Year, but that is,
that's not there. There's not very many studies
about eighty HD insects. My dude, and it's a huge huge
part of the ADHD experience and I feel like we should talk about
it today. Yeah, I think we should too.
I think it took me a long time to realize how much my ADHD
affects my life. And it also took me a long time
to realize how much my relationship with my own
sexuality, and sexual life and sexual identity, affects my
life. And I think in like the same
eight-month period, I both realized how much ADHD affects
my life and how much my sexual identity affect my life and
interestingly enough my coming to terms with each one aided in
the My coming to terms with the other.
I think they're very closely related at least to me and it
sounds like they're very closely related to a lot of other
people. Yeah, I mean the thing that I
was shocked about was I started when I started realizing that
there was such a connection between sexual dysfunction and
ADHD I started talking about it right away like I read like the
first started and I was like yes and then I really became my
hyper fixation for gamma. We throw back to last week's
episode and I was it was fascinating.
It was fascinating to learn that.
There are so much connection that is only just now sort of
starting to get uncovered. And so I thought we should do an
episode on it. Yes.
Well, so, I think I've, for me for my own sexual identity, for
my whole life, there's been a lot of Shame.
Yeah, a rabbit, like, they were so closely related to each other
that when I became sexually aroused or just thought of sex
in any way at any time of any day.
I immediately felt shame a while ago, it was like sexual, you
know, arousal and then a bad sexual experience and then shame
and that happened. So not necessarily frequently
but that, that the impact of that was so profound in my
brain, that my brain just sort of cut out the middleman.
And so, for the last, probably seven or eight years, when I
think of sexuality at all, when I think of sex at all, if I see
a Victoria's Secret commercial, I impart you're going to say
Rich Victorian Widow was like oh no.
What is she gonna be on the only fans Katie?
That's what the fans want. Hello, it's me Richard.
Wait, look at my ankles. I'm sorry I just derailed this
very serious conversation about sex and ADHD.
Sorry. When you see the victim my
Bloomers secret place. Oh my God.
Look at that. Flash.
A little angle. You scandalous.
I don't know actually but So over time, my brain is cut out,
that sort of that middleman. So when I saw like a Victoria's
Secret commercial, I would immediately get depressed and
ashamed and sad, absolutely. Yeah, so much so that I forgot
that that was the case. So I would, you know, let's say
I was 21 and I'm at a bar with, like, you know, I live in
Berkeley California and it's like a college town.
I'm not a student but like, let's just say, I go out with my
friend to a bar. So, and I look across the room.
And I see, like, like I'm straight.
So like a pretty woman and I kind of think like, well, I want
to go talk to her. Whatever there is probably like
maybe half a second between having, like the beginning of
the thought of like, oh, you know, maybe she wants to talk to
me or I should like, send a drinker with like, as soon as
sex becomes anywhere involved in something that I'm doing or
thinking about depression kicks in immediately and it's
Something that I I mean I said for a while I've said to many
therapists that my sexual frustration led to sexual
Detachment where I would I would dissociate basically especially
in in actual sexual circumstances if I, if sex
became a topic of conversation or if I thought about sex like
in other circumstances, I would get depressed and all that.
But if I was in a sexual circumstance, as soon as things
start or initiated, I'd Associated and that led to a
massive spike in my rejection sensitive dysphoria.
Which is so I guess I wouldn't well, I wasn't well, actually,
no holy schnikeys Katie. She's have a glass breaker.
I had a podcast breakthroughs are so heavy with it.
I was Journal. Oh my gosh.
My rejection sensitive dysphoria.
Is what caused my dissociative response because in my had sex
was tied very closely to fail Oh, Yer an embarrassment and
shame and so I checked, I would check out for them because, you
know, when I first became sexually active, I had so many
shameful and embarrassing experiences that my brain as a
defense mechanism started associating.
Holy schnikeys Katie, are you okay to we need to stop
recording? No, no, it's fine.
I just I hope I apologize. If I'm not as articulate about
this is I look like I just thought because I was just
thinking, like, I was just so ciated, but I knew rejection,
sensitive dysphoria, was part of it.
But if you're dissociated, then you're not aware enough of your
surroundings to perhaps be a way to feel rejection.
Yeah. But I realize RSD came first.
Yeah. And again this is tries into how
closely Insanely related. My ADHD has been to my sex life
because I was diagnosed when I was 15 but I didn't.
I wasn't aware of the implications of it.
Until I know I guess would have been July of 2020 when I made a
video about it and then people were like, oh tell me more and I
was like, oh let me learn more. But oh my gosh.
So I guess I guess that is to say the more I learned about
ADHD in my ADHD, the more I learned about my own sexual
identity and the profundity. Right.
Profundity of that is still sort of hitting me in waves.
You just saw wave hit just now but especially as a male who's
expected, you know, I'm a straight sis white male and it's
sort of expected that we were supposed to just want to have
sex all the time, like if you're at a place in like, you know,
and a woman like a conventionally attractive woman
comes up to you and says, hey there.
Big boy. Do you want to take me to the
closet and Bit different compared.
How many times has that happened to you in your life and I want
you to can I count on your toes too?
That's fine. It cool.
Now once or twice honestly all jokes aside once or twice and
it's where we're shown through through media and and all the
story, The immense amount of stories and narratives that were
told on a daily basis that straight men, sis men are
supposed to be able to have sex, the drop of a hat, which is not
the case for me and never had. It's not that I don't think it's
the case. Were most men.
I I suspect that's the case to. I just feel like there and I
don't like obviously I don't have the experience of being a
man, but I feel like you've read you really hit on something with
like, there is like an expectation because that is
what, you know, Society or Media or whatever talks about.
But, you know, so it's I don't think it's feasible for people
to just be ready to go at a drop of a hat.
Even for people who experience hypersexuality.
Which we're going to talk about later in the episode but I think
like that expectation comes from like this weird.
Fictionalization of the practicalities of sexuality.
Yeah, there's seen that one particular scene that just
exists rent-free in my head. Is that the scene in the movie,
8 Mile, with, with Eminem. You seen the movie 8 Mile.
I've not seen eight mile. Hey, you got to get on it, I
wasn't a junior-high. Boy, up the fair enough.
Fair enough, the song Lose Yourself was written for that.
My favorite rap song. About Italian food.
But there's this scene where Eminem's character, but rabbit
bunny red be rabbit. Is that work, he should be
working. I'm sorry.
Eminem's characters named bunny rabbit B-Rabbit.
Yeah I this I was today years old when I learned this it's a
fantastic movie. Katie surprise.
I mean he's a surprisingly good actor to it's very good.
Hi Rebecca. Sorry continue.
There's this scene where he was so exciting Detroit.
He works in an auto Factory basically.
Well it's Detroit and this the Of Interest comes in, and she
like, sees her across the room. And she gives them like this
look, and they like he walks over to her and she basically
gives him this, like, let's have sex right now.
Look. And he like goes his eyes wide.
Me looks around and goes okay, he grabs her out of hand and
they find a little corner and like, in 10 seconds, they stop
start making out. And then like there's penetrate
there are, they're having sex now, and I was just like, oh,
okay. Okay.
That's that's what happens because I mean, I don't know how
old I was like 10 or something like 11 and I just figured like
oh that's what's supposed to happen is in the moment, you're
going to be in a thing and then somebody who you want to have
sex, with says, let's have sex and then you're just like Bing.
All right, let's go. And I quickly discovered that
that was not the case and so profoundly outside of my
experience. How do you figure?
Well, how do you mean that figure?
Like I'm like, I'm trying to imagine like, what my response
to seeing that would have been as a kid because like, it takes
me so long to get in the right headspace to like, be down to
pound. I go for shouldn't just so
kothari, or moms, aren't listening?
I'm just, I've come up with so many clever euphemism.
No. But like, I mean, but that's the
thing is like exactly what you were saying.
Like, I like, I can't do that. Like, that's not a thing like
and and sometimes I will be in the mood.
It and that's cool. Like I'm and when that happens,
I'm like oh shit like I like oh my God what was the stars have?
Aligned the Moon is in the Hat like you know and and that's
really cool but that happens so infrequently that I think that
also contributes to my rejection sensitive area because like if
it is one of those perfect moments where I am like let's go
and my partner is like no I'm not.
No thing, I'm doing whatever like know it's Super Bowl, you
know, whatever. Like whatever might be.
I don't know what was super bowl-like then I feel like I
have done something wrong by making me approach.
Well seems kind of analogous in some ways to how I think of
hyper-focus. I can't control when I'm going
to hyper focus on something. Usually, a certain things, I
always hyper focus on, but oftentimes like it have a focus
on something entirely arbitrary. But when I get hyper focused on
something that I think of as being an objectively good thing
to do, the stars have aligned, oh my gosh, I need to go do the
dishes right now because I have the motivation and I'm like, oh
I just thought of a new method or whatever.
I need to seize that right now. And so similarly with sexuality,
I have no control over when I am in the mood in a sexual mood.
When I'm aroused, whatever will I'm leaving all that stuttering
in it right now. That's that's what a mighty she
looks like a lots. Okay.
But it's in some ways, analogous in that we have no control or,
you know, and there's there's a guilt that I feel when I'm in
the mood when another person isn't because I feel like I'm
wrong in them because I've spent my whole life watching Men posed
to church, and lust over women, and I never wanted to be that
guy, but I also feel bad when my partner is in the Food.
And I'm not, I know that it I'm well, I'm within my rights to do
that. Which, by the way, dear
listener, it is okay to not be in the mood.
If your partner is at all times, it is okay, but it's sort of,
it's, it's an interesting sort of lack of control.
Analogous to our lack of control of of our attention.
I don't know if it's entirely analogous because there is of
course hyper and hypo sexuality but let's say what it is though.
Like I'm sorry I didn't mean to cut you off but what's really
interesting that you say that That because so lots of people
with ADHD experience hypo sexuality or low sex drive but I
but I smaller contingency experience hypersexuality which
is a higher than usual, sex drive.
But the problem with both of those is that those are kind of
Subjective terms, right? Like if all of a sudden all you
can think about is sex, are you experiencing hypersexuality or
are you just in the mood? You know what I mean?
Like and so there's like a lot of like wiggle room within the
definitions of hypo and Hyper sexuality.
But they both come down in conversation with ADHD.
They both come down to focus and attention ring.
Yes, for a lot of people low sex drive is a like, I'm so nervous
about recording this episode because I keep saying, like for
a lot of people like I speak for the ADHD Community but I want to
be clear. Like, as I keep having these
conversations there are four or five really great studies, that
have been done about ADHD and sexuality, and I have studied
them and I have read them. So, we're going to post all of
those on the website so you can check those out if you want.
But when I say, lots of people with ADHD, I'm referring to the
people who have participated In the studies.
If that is make sense. Yes.
And, um, an equals and say, for the mask grills, people who have
been involved in ADHD studies / myself, because I'm also
counting myself as a reference point.
But so, so, hypo sexuality and hypersexuality both come down to
attention and, and inattention / impulsiveness /, everything that
comes with ADHD and So for many people, the low sex drive comes
from the fact that there is, there is a definitive struggle
to focus on sex. There is a definitive struggle,
to get into the proper headspace.
Whereas people who experience hypersexuality that is, all they
can think about is their attention is, an is again, it's
not an attention deficit. It is a tension, directive,
right? Attention Direction.
And then there it gets, so it gets so Science you so quick.
I don't know how deep to go down the rabbit hole.
Hey dude, go for it. Be rabbit.
Okay. You're like, are you saying Eric
that I should lose myself? I think in the moment she lose
yourself in the science. The moment.
You wanna start mom's spaghetti. All right, I'm sorry.
I like apples control. Um, but yeah and so that it,
that's part of it. But then also you have to take
into consideration all of like the comorbidities that often
come with ADHD. So lots of people with ADHD.
Also have depression or anxiety or both many people.
Struggle with addiction. And so there's all of these sort
of, like, outside external factors that are not
specifically just ADHD even ADHD medication can, you know, affect
both ways hypo and Hyper sexuality, which is really
interesting. And then even more complex is,
there's a very interesting phenomena that hasn't really
been studied at all except in the Community.
So within the king Community, there's this conversation about
a term called drop and what drop is is that after a kink seen,
some people experience drop and, and drop is basically once all
of your sort of Serotonin and dopamine have been depleted,
because you've sort of burned through it during this like,
heightened experience in this heightened range of emotions.
The next day you can feel like shit and it can happen to the
top or the bottom. Like it is sort of
non-discriminatory it just depends on like how your brain
processes the sexual experience and and emotions and
experiences, right? But that is a thing that happens
to everybody across the board when you orgasm, because when
you orgasm your body releases certain endorphins and
chemicals, like serotonin and dopamine.
So for a lot of people who have a low Than average sort of rate
of dopamine like, huh? Perhaps someone with ADHD?
Hey the act of orgasming depletes that dopamine and you
can start to resent sex because you feel shitty afterwards
you're just naturally experiencing drop.
So it basically winds up happening is that many people
with ADHD who experience lower rates of dopamine and serotonin
already feel like shit. It after they have sex and, but
unconsciously, because they're not educated, and they don't
know of application. That's so rude.
They're not educated about. They're not educated.
They're all dummies, that are big dumb dummy, faces and
educate about that educated about this specific component of
how orgasm affects your brain and your chemical levels.
And so they start to unconsciously associate sex with
feeling crappy afterwards and that show he's up in these
studies that I'm talking about because the number one sort of
theme among all of the people who are studied in all of these
different studies because there's been several done, like
I said before is that universally people with ADHD are
more sexually active but they are less satisfied with sex,
huh? Yeah.
Put that in your brisket and smoke it.
Sorry, I said you don't you smoke the brisket itself?
I've never made a brisket, I don't know how it works.
Oh, what are you doing tonight? I've watched mrs.
Maisel a lot but that's that's all I got.
Well, I think the thing, you know, we're going to do a whole
episode on, can't get some point, so we won't get shot with
so we can't get in. It's so complicated.
That's too much for one episode. But King I think is A notable
enough experience like it's It looks interesting and involves
different tools. It's, you know, it's notable.
So that might perhaps then cause one to realize trends that occur
because of it, for example drop. Yeah.
In the king community that everybody knows about drop
because they well because they're just a wonderful group
of people in general as far as I know as far as I know.
But in more, I guess the kingdom would be vanilla sex.
Sex that doesn't involve kinky. It's if those it might not seem
as notable, you might not think of it as being something that's,
you know, endorphin the least significant enough to cause
something like Drop. So especially for a person with
ADHD who already has a non typical relationship dopamine.
Just again go over real quick. Low arousal Theory, this is not
sexual arousal. This is brain around July
arousal, people with ADHD, have a smaller amount of dopamine
active in their brain in a given time.
Your brain has an amount of dopamine that it releases and
then takes back up so you can think of it as like if you had
10 darts to throw you there only so many darts you can throw
before you have to stop and go and get them and reloads.
There's only so much dopamine. You can have at one time.
I love your analogies are always so good.
Well thanks and so if you have a massive orgasm let's say you've
just thrown all those darts at the thing at the same time.
I'm and then you got to go grab them and take them back.
So for if you were to think of like darts on the board at a
given time as being like, the amount of dopamine active in
your brain, for a period of time, when you go grab all the
darts and walk back, your brain is depleted of dopamine, which I
suppose in this case, we would call drop.
And for a person with ADHD, whose brain is very used to
having to be very attentive to the amount of dopamine, flopping
around it. And in a given time, I really
wish there were more studies. Perhaps, I shall spend the rest
of my life doing these studies, but I can certainly say from
personal experience. The types of things that I feel.
When my ADHD is running off the loose, like, I'm hyper focused
to all hell on something and then suddenly I finish the model
or I have to stop or whatever. And all the sudden, my brain
just goes boom, and I get depressed.
And I experienced drop same as the case for, if I have an
intense sexual experience afterwards, I experienced drop
Because I've just thrown out all of my dopamine, and I also think
it's worth noting or talking about I suppose, because I don't
know really what I make of it yet.
But so in my everyday, life non-sexual situations in my
everyday life. My brain.
Craves phasic. Dopamine the dopamine that your
brain releases when something happens, when new stuff goes on.
So, I'm constantly switching topics and getting bored with
topics and doing new ones, it's called ADHD that is also
happening during a sexual encounter.
So my Is doing all the sex, dopamine stuff, but I am also
simultaneously doing all the ADHD, dopamine stuff, and it
feels strange. And in my, in my experience,
when I'm in a sexual realm, it's sort of binary, I am either
dissociated or I am thinking about everything that's going on
at all times. You know, the sexual Sensations
that I'm experiencing the sound of the light, the creepiness of
the bad, my feet are getting sweaty and so it's basically
like I either not cute into anything at all.
I'm fully dissociated or I'm cute into so many things that I
cannot at all focus on, you know, experiencing pleasure,
giving pleasure, and all the stuff that occurs intimacy.
I can't focus on intimacy, and that sort of gives validation to
the feeling of drop because the drop is occurring because of
chemical things. Yeah, but it gives that Place
that I go to during drop a lot of stuff to toss around in my
brain absolute like oh you know you made them tired because you
kept having to start over because you were like hold on I
got to go turn off that light it's bright or whatever and so
then when I experienced drop, I can think back to all these
occurrences that occurred during that experience, due to my ADHD
and my drop has like, oh gosh, Eric we are going to go nuts
with all this stuff that you just did and it makes it worse.
I feel like I don't know if it's worse because I'm going to
compare it to because I'm only one person but Bill.
Hey, guess what you did it, you made it to the middle of the
episode. Congratulations!
Have you had any water today? First, we just want to say thank
you at the beginning of January. We set a goal of having 50
patrons by the end of the month, and we did it.
It happens. And so, because we think it's
important to keep growing, we are expanding that goal to 60.
However, we also wanted to take a little bit of time to let you
know why every single dollar that we raise is going towards
helping Eric move to Atlanta. So we Can continue infinite
quests, mission of spreading advocacy and education about
ADHD and mental illness. This has become something that
means more to us than we can ever say.
And with your support, you're helping turn this into a reality
and we are so grateful every little bit helps.
So if you're interested in supporting infinite Quest, visit
patreon.com slash infinite quest for more information, Hey
everybody. It's me Katie asaurus and we
just wanted to let you know that this week's episode is brought
to you by our good friends over at honey.
Playbox what is Honey? Play box, you might ask well,
I'm gonna give it to you straight, they sell sex toys,
but here's the thing. How do you play box believes
that pleasure play health and accessibility are necessary for
positive experiences of sexuality.
And, you know what, here it infinite Quest.
We agree, especially in conversation with how tough sex
and sexy times can be when you're struggling with ADHD, or
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conversations about sex and sexuality are really, really
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That's like honestly not a bad. You guys, I'm not gonna lie
also, just because I think this is very funny.
Honey. Play box was kind enough to send
over just a ludicrous amount of stuff for me and Eric to look at
and talk about. So in the next couple of weeks,
you're going to see some content over on the YouTube.
And we're also going to talk more just about sex toys and how
they can help your ADHD relationships.
So we will be posting that content soon so you have that to
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order over at honey, please. A box and have have fun.
Okay, bye. Oh, man.
Did I just haven't podcast breakthrough?
I think I just had the one charged with it, my my struggle,
because I guess like we haven't talked about me yet.
So let's just talk about me for a second.
I don't care what he's our cares, who cares?
I care, I think that's my real problem.
Like I tend to be more submissive.
I gravitate more towards like bottoming.
Scene was bottoming being submissive.
I just hate the term submissive like to thank me, too.
I don't like to think of like, when, if you're cuddling, if
there's one person who's like, I want to be the little spoon.
Yeah, yeah. Little spoon is bottoming.
Big serious topic. It's a very Loosely defined term
but like, yeah, it's like, I don't know.
I just, I hate the term submissive because it's like in
the Kink Community. I would be what is defined as
like Heavy impact probably bratty submissive but I hate the
term submissive. I hate the term brat and it's
like I don't know it's just I can't really hung up on labels
because I'm just like labels came to find me man.
But anyway what the fuck I was talking about was that I have
always felt like an inconvenience and it's because I
have ADHD. And it's and so like my entire
life has been about trying to Keep the people around me, happy
and trying desperately to not be an inconvenience and, like,
people-pleasing and bending over backwards to make people happy,
which is separate from being submit.
Like, I want to be very clear about that.
Like, it's not like oh, you're a people pleaser.
Therefore you must be submissive, but for me I've
always felt like an inconvenience and that
especially started coming up during sex.
As first I was I was super late bloomer which is surprises.
A lot of people and actually runs very kind of like my
personal experience runs contrary to a lot of studies.
There's a really interesting study done about ADHD and risky
behavior in women with ADHD and across-the-board.
It kind of talked about the fact that women with ADHD tend to
engage more in like risky partners and risky.
Actual behaviors and like the number of sexual partners and
like substance abuse as it relates to sex and that city was
done in 2006. But that was never my
experience, like, I lost my virginity when I was 21 and the
only reason I lost it when I was 21, which and also, I want to be
very clear. Virginity is a societal
construct and I don't even blink.
That's a whole another box to impact.
But like my first sexual, Since came, when I was 21 came, and it
was because I just decided like, this is something that I need to
get over with. Like I just I need to I need to
have this experience. I might as well get on board.
Like let's go and it was really bad.
It was very, very bad sexual experience because like I had no
idea what I was doing, and I think kind of a little bit what
you're talking about, like I had a bad experience, I internalized
that as I was being an inconvenience because it took me
a really long. Long time to get in the mood, it
took me a really long time to sort of respond to anything that
was happening. And that kind of became how I
thought about sex. Like, I was just inconvenient
because it takes me so long to orgasm.
It takes me so long to focus. It takes me so long to get in
that headspace. And so sex wasn't particularly
something that I enjoyed when it was Like it just is like, is I
always say, like pizza? Like if you offered me pizza or
Saks, I will always choose pizza because at least Pisa is
consistent. And I know what I'm in for,
right? And that's so frustrating.
And it's so frustrating to be lying there and like, wanting to
be intimate with somebody, and wanting to share this time in
this space and like experience like those emotions of like
closeness and intimacy. But the whole time you're going
oh my God like his hand getting tired.
Like is he getting tired? Like it's been a really long
time is like this is it A reasonable amount of time.
I don't think this is a reasonable amount of time.
Like this feels like a really long.
Should I say something? Should I not say something?
Because if I say something like is it going to put him out of
the mood and then like that, I'm going to feel bad because I got
ruined it like that is my monologue.
Every time I'm having sex like I want to be very clear like every
time across the board universally and so when I am
again this is probably going to circle back to a lot of this on
the Kink episode. But like so the first time that
I experienced a Like a partner who was very like dominant and
was like, no this is what we're doing.
I was like oh shit. Oh shit.
Like I don't have to like it's
fine, it's okay. And like having that permission
and having that freedom to be like, it's okay to take that
time. It's okay to need the time that
you take but like, you really have to have an understanding
partner. You really have to have somebody
who it's like. I don't care if it takes, you 15
minutes to orgasm. I don't care if it takes an
hour, you know? Like If it doesn't, it's about
the time that we're spending together.
And so that is something that I try to bring into my own sexual
experiences. Now is like it really doesn't
matter. You know, like it shouldn't
matter. It should be about the time that
is being spent, but if the ceiling fan is clicky, or the
air conditioning is on or the music is weird or whatever.
It's just it's just all circles back to that.
That moment of like I'm being an inconvenience like I'm The other
person is not enjoying it and it's my fault and like that is.
Yeah, I guess I guess that's yeah.
It it's a trailed off of the other side it's a positive or A
negative feedback loop. Because the more worried you are
about how if their hand is tired or whatever, like the more your
RSD is acting up and you just want to be less inconvenient you
know, whatever the longer the the I don't want us, I guess I
guess worse, I don't to say worse because I don't imply that
they're bad, but the things that are Causing you to think that
way will become compounded. Yeah.
They like it's just, it becomes a vicious cycle.
Exactly. So if I'm thinking like, is
there hanging tired? I am now Less close to the like
that. What will cause them to be able
to stop and throw, you know, like it's yeah, exactly.
And it's just God, it's just this frustrating spiral and
that's of course. Why it helps to have an
understanding partner. Because when you have no
understanding partner, you can answer those questions in your
head. All right?
You can set, or are they tired? It's like, well, if you have, if
you are Very comfortable with your partner.
You're very communicative, then you can know.
Oh, if they were they would say I'm going to I need a break from
this or if they weren't like they'll they'll tell me.
So having an understanding partner is just absolutely
Paramount to I mean in my case, satisfying sexual experiences
and that also goes for sexual compatibility.
Frankly, yeah, being able to communicate what your needs are
for my might big butt. Big Journey that I'm still on is
figuring out what those needs are.
Such that I can find a partner, who can satisfy, who is can
satisfy my needs, and who has it?
Who also has needs that I can satisfy.
And so you know, you can't ask for something if you don't know
what it is. And so having a partner that
you're also comfortable enough to explore with.
Perhaps there are new things that you know, there were
certain sexual practices, that stop my ADHD, right?
In its tracks because all the thinking Ceiling fan.
And then, you know, I want to get, we can get it, we'll get
into it at the Kink episode, but the ceiling family going on,
like all the ceiling fan. Oh man, like this are there is
that, you know, as their leg in a weird position.
Am I putting too much on my sitting to like my leaning on
their leg too hard or whatever and then all of a sudden
something will happen and also my brain just goes, screw
everything that you were just thinking about this is what's
happening now and being able to have a partner that you can one
ask for whatever that thing is of ask of whatever that thing
is, and have a partner that you're comfortable enough to
explore with, such to find what that thing is, is just of a
Paramount importance. Yeah, well, and I think, I mean,
I say this all that's like, literally all the time comes up
so often, but I think the number of problems that can simply be
solved by sitting down and having a conversation.
Is shocking. Frankly like especially when it
comes to navigating like ADHD relationships and like I can't
remember the episode but where we talked about like defining
terms, you know, like that. So yeah.
Well he's Gypsy. Yeah.
But like that, like that, expands I think more into the
sexual realm as well. Because like, there, there's
nothing wrong with sitting down and looking at the person that
you're about to be intimate with and be like, hey, if I check
gout like, can you do this thing to bring me back?
Like it would be really helpful like if the ceiling fan isn't
on, like you can ask for those things and you can vocalize
those things you're not doing anything wrong.
When you, you vocalize those needs and you express those
needs in those wants. She said an absolute fucking
hypocrite because that's the thing that I struggle with the
most like it is like I'm so bad at it.
Because when I first started having I didn't necessarily have
communicative Partners, I didn't necessarily know that it was
okay, to ask for things. And I had a string of Partners
who quite frankly were not interested in me, or my
experience, being a good one, it was about their experience.
And so because of that, like I internalized again I don't want
to be an inconvenience. Hmm.
And like, I'm not. Not kidding.
When I say like if there was music playing right just
hypothetical situation. If there if there's like music
playing and I didn't like the music.
The the fear and the shame and the the impossibility of just
saying can we turn the music off that is terrifying to me?
Because like to me that is such a huge request because I'm
looking at it and I'm thinking, I'm here, I'm spending my time
with this person, they have been thoughtful enough to put on some
music to set the mood or whatever.
And now I'm coming in and not only am I saying, oh I don't
like this music and I don't like the parameters that you have set
in which we are being intimate, but now I'm also being
inconvenient enough to say. Can you change this?
Can you stop what you're doing to you know tell Alexa to stop
playing music or whatever and like but that's how hung up I
get on it because I am so scared of being an inconvenience and
And it's so frustrating and it's like I've like therapy helps to
some extent but honestly I think a lot of it comes down to the
repetition of having an understanding and communicative
partner who not only can say yeah that's fine.
If we need to turn the music off no big deal but having the
presence of mind to also say and thank you for saying something.
It's okay that you said something like that was good.
You did a good thing. Good job.
Yeah, I mean there's no overstating, the importance of
being on the same page. Yeah.
As your partner, whatever the page is.
It it's sort of interesting enough.
I think communication and being on the same page as your partner
is immensely convenient. Because it reads both of you, of
the of the fear of having to wonder.
What do they want? Am I doing the right thing?
To they like what I'm doing, are they offended by what I'm doing?
Is the music. Okay.
Yeah, it you know if If you had a partner that knew you and knew
that you can't stay focused or like in the moment, if there is
music playing, they wouldn't have played music in the first
place, which then wouldn't. But that's the problem though,
is because sometimes I want music, sometimes I want music
and sometimes they don't want music.
Yeah, sometimes I want classical music and sometimes I want like,
you know slow motion Casino Heist music like which is a very
specific genre. Oh yeah mustard but it's my
George Is my favorite, like, genre for, like heavy impact
scenes, but sometimes I'll be doing, like, a heavy impact me,
and I don't want any noise like, and it's just, and it's just
like where my brain is at that day.
And that's why I get to fucking frustrate and because it's the
variables always change variables.
Are always changing based on infinite Issa, Mille
differences, like and literally sometimes it's like, did I eat
lunch? Mmm.
It's like if I ate lunch, then nine times out of ten, I'm gonna
like have a bunch of body image issues because I had the
audacity to feed myself today and my fucking eating disorder.
Brain tells me that I'm a disgusting fat piece of shit and
so how dare I have a body? How dare I enjoy what's going
on? I don't want to be seen because
like, you know, like now I'm in my head about like, what I look
like. It's so dumb are It's so it's
not dumb Katie at all. I mean, it's just, it's not
don't like, it's valid because it is what goes on in my head.
But I like from an outside perspective of someone listening
to this podcast who just has sex and lives their life.
I sound ridiculous. No, no.
You really don't. And I don't mean to say, I mean,
yes, those feelings are valid but honestly, no, it isn't.
I mean, the think yesterday, when we were getting ready, See
to do a live. Yeah.
When you were carrying a thing you knocked over, you spilled
something on the table, right? And you're really mad at
yourself, I was, I was so mad and I didn't care.
I was like, I will grab a towel, it's fine.
And I asked you, if I had knocked over the thing, how mad
at me would you be, how would be like, how dare they, how much
would you feel that towards me? And you immediately without
hesitation said not at all. That's how other people
generally are there. Not Ellen is tangentially
related, but Eleanor Roosevelt said that, you wouldn't care.
About what people thought of you.
If you realized, how seldom they actually do.
And so all the stuff that's going on in your head of or will
they be terribly offended? If I asked them to turn the
music down, it's so stupid to me because all this is happening,
because of I stubbed my toe yesterday.
And this particular way that I'm standing is putting fresh all
that stuff. They all they see is that you
are giving them information to cause their insecurities to go
down because then they know what you need.
That's what I worry the most about during any section is am I
giving this person what they need and if I don't know what
they need then I'm just guessing and that is dreadfully
inefficient and if they don't know what they need, then
neither of us. And so you need to be able to be
comfortable enough to explore and figure out what both of you
want. So I think it's kind of ironic
that the I Think, in your case and I am no expert at all.
I mean, I'm just a person who has experiences who is
apparently not embarrassed to talk about them?
I'm there for it. Ironic that I think the things
that you worry about in terms of offending, the other person or
making the other person uncomfortable would actually
make them more comfortable to tell them, hey can you turn down
the music or hey can you shift your weight in this or that way?
And that also sets the precedent that you will tell them Like,
I've noticed that I tend to get along with people that other
people described as being assholes it and because assholes
will always tell you what they're thinking.
And so, you know, I have a relative, I won't say their name
in case of them, but I have a relative who if you're standing
in an inopportune spot, she'll just go Eric.
Don't stand there, stand there and I'll just go.
Okay at all, and I'll move over there.
If that why are you turning to John Mulaney?
What do you do it? Okay, that's pretty good.
And a lot of people kind of get if I'm like.
All right fine. But for me, I'm like I'm so
comfortable around her because I know I never have to worry that
she's thinking something that I'm doing and I don't know about
it. If I'm doing something that she
doesn't like she'll just tell me matter-of-factly like, hey,
could you turn that down? I'm on the phone or whatever.
Yeah. And so it's sort of ironic that
in your attempts to make the other person.
I guess not offended like what's it's asking?
This is guessing Behavior. Yeah, yeah.
Is what it comes down to you. And for those of you who don't
know, like I think this topic is like absolutely fascinating, but
it a lot of it has to do. It doesn't have anything to do
like ADHD or being neuro-diverse or whatever.
It literally just kind of comes down to like, how you were
raised and how you communicate because let's say you need to go
to the airport. If you are an asker you would
say, hey Eric, can you give me a ride to the airport on Thursday?
Hmm. And Eric would say yes or Eric
would say no and it would be his right either way to do that but
guessers would go. Oh man I hate traffic and like I
like I gotta go to the airport on Thursday and like parking at
the airport is such a pain with the hope that Eric would pick up
on that and say, oh I could give you a ride to the airport.
Airport. And like both of those are both
of them have their pros and their cons.
But the big problem with it is that people who are guessers
tend to think of askers as in conscionable assholes, and
people who are askers tend to think of guessers as passive
aggressive monsters. And so like when you, when you
put that in context of sex, if you are an asker and your
partner is a guesser. Wow.
Is there a lot of room for miscommunication and if You
know, you are a Gasser and your partners and ask her, then you
can feel like your partner is being really demanding or trying
to like top from the bottom or like whatever.
But in reality, your partner is just expressing what they want.
But getting on the same page about even how you ask and how
you communicate that becomes really, really important as
well. And I think because I am so
resolutely a guesser like I'm a guesser and it is such a problem
and I recognized it as a Problem.
Because a lot of times, it's not a problem.
Like, sometimes you can just be like, I sure would like steak
for dinner and then somebody goes, oh, well, we could have
steak and I go, yeah, I got what I wanted, her a, but in the
context of sex, it's a lot harder to be.
Like, I sure hope that, you know, my partner reads my mind
and figures out that this is a really bad angle and I'm in a
lot of pain right now, they're not like, but your partner's
can't read your mind. Your partners can infer that
unless you express that, but I'm so come uncomfortable expressing
a lot of that stuff like it is it is often to my own detriment
and I see that pattern of behavior in my life and like I
work really hard to fix it but I'm not a perfect person.
I just play one on TV and I think I think ADHD is very
related to that in that guessing is a lot of stuff for brain to
think about. You know, if I'm with a person
who is exhibits guessing Behavior who will imply that
they need something and hope that I respond My ADHD can grab
that, and all of a sudden has a bunch of stuff to think about it
and go. Well, wait a minute to look in
their eyes said that, they really wanted steak for dinner,
but then they kind of were like, oh, I want steak for dinner, but
I would feel bad if I ate steak, so, maybe they don't want steak
for dinner or whatever. My ADHD is like, oh my God, I
have so much stuff to think about that.
Where is he? You just remember that there's
mashed potatoes in the fridge because you said steak and now
I'm happy about that. It has nothing to do with this
episode but I just wanted to let everybody know that that's the
reality but they But you put parmesan cheese in your mashed
potatoes, everybody PSA, whereas, if you're with somebody
who is a, who is a, what is it asking versus guessing?
So these were with a NASCAR and use in the asker, says, can you
make mistake for dinner - TJ? My age ADHD, can't do anything
with that? It's just well, my HD would then
think, oh my God. There's a million ways to make
sake of crazy but I'm at least furthering what's happening.
So if I'm in a sexual situation and I am not sure if If what I'm
doing is liked by the other person, or I'm not sure if the
person knows that, I don't like what they're doing or whatever,
that's all guesswork, that can make my ADHD spin out like
nobody's business. And then I'll get frustrated
that I'm spinning out and I'll just so C8 and everything stops
and asking is is a really good way in my for me to sort of make
my ADHD go, okay? It's like it's just it's less
fuel for my ADHD to spin out with I suppose.
As yeah. It's really interesting.
Similarly I have you know if you're a submissive versus
dominant I find that being a bottom or a more submissive
sexual partner, it rids me of a lot of decisions.
Yeah, so if I'm in charge, then I have to decide.
Where am I going to go? Where they going to go?
What are we going to do all these things that might HD?
You know, a tasty, people are generally good.
Prospectors were really good at thinking, of a million different
ways of doing something. But we're not very good at
deciding, which one to do. So, when I'm in, A dominant
situation that is liable to happen.
Whereas if I'm a submissive, I have one piece of information
that I need and that is what do you want me to do?
And that is it. I literally so because I'm a
switch right? I don't talk about a lot but I
am of switch. Sometimes the top, sometimes the
bottom and when I taught I literally write it out lines.
Like I'm writing a goddamn book report and it's so funny because
people will be like, what? Because I have like a little.
I have notes. I will like notes because it's
like my ADHD does the same thing.
I've started Prospecting and I go, oh, I could do this thing or
I could do this thing, or I could do this thing.
And I found that the most effective way for me to top is
to specifically, take away those those options.
So, I just make the list and like, we're sticking to the
list. I like, you know, like there's
places where you can like creatively deviate or like
something if something is working for your partner or
whatever. But like that is something that
Like I've always been kind of embarrassed about, because,
like, I have to be so clinical to be a good top because I have
to work within the parameters of my ADHD.
So it's little, like I literally have on my, like, Notes app on
my phone. I have like the book report
outlined of, like, scenes that I've done because it right, you
know, I'm like, oh yeah, like the well, they liked this thing
last time so like I'll put it in the, you know, this next time.
Yeah. I mean I think just like
navigating the the challenges of ADHD mean that you kind of have
to prospect both like in the moment.
But you also have to prospect for ideas about how to
creatively problem, solve around your own neuro diversity, and
those challenges. And for me, it means Writing
outlines or getting over the fear of being like, please turn
down the music or whatever and it's a lot.
And I don't think I'm always successful.
Like I like, I know, I know that I'm not always successful, but I
think the cool thing is that because of tick tock and because
of this podcast and because of the position that I am now in, I
have the opportunity to learn how to do better.
I'm actively Learning every day, how to work on these failings
that I have internalized for so long.
Because I'm finally realizing that I'm not the only person who
struggles to orgasm. I'm not the only person who
struggles to focus like I'm it's everybody take a drink.
It's not a moral failing and it I'm not inherently a bad person
because sex is hard and complex and complicated for my brain.
But it's also something that I'm passionate about and it's like I
mean and it's something that when I When, you know, the stars
align and I'm with a partner who I'm very compatible with it is a
wonderful experience and it's like a type of thing that I
really want and I really need in my life in order to stay
centered and on in order to feel good about myself.
And I think that having the opportunity to constantly be
reminded that, you know, like 43 percent of women and 39 percent
of men with ADHD Since this like I am quantifiably not alone,
science has proven that I am not alone and I think that is such a
gift that is such a gift to know that and so I don't care if my
mom is mad about this episode. Because maybe part of that 43
percent, or that 39 percent of people who didn't know that
until today, will know that now and they will feel a little bit
less alone. Here, Katie here, here here.
Yeah, we make me stay for dinner.
No. That's all for a request this
week, but before you go, we've got a couple more things to let
you know about first. Don't forget to check out our
web double shop. We've got a bunch of cool merch,
including some brand-new ADHD and D designs, which were really
excited about this past Monday. Eric and me and Chris were
invited to play May label on Lark, Network hosted by D and D
core. So it was a ton of fun like holy
shit, we had so much fun, you guys.
It will be available on their twitch stream at Twitch TV /
Lark, Network for the next two weeks.
So make sure you go check it out and watch us get our asses
kicked its Dungeons and Dragons sportsball.
Lastly, we just want to give a huge shout-out to our new
patreon supporters. So thank you very much to Erica
and Kathy and Michelle and Penny and cherish and Nicole, and
Malice and zero, welcome to the infinite Quest family.
We are so grateful and humbled by your support, and we look
forward to seeing all of you next week, until then remember
to drink some water. Remember to be kind to yourself.
Elf and remember that. We love you.
Hello, this is mr. Brooks coming to you live from
my remote location in North. Western North Carolina, wanted
to say congratulations on the podcast, hope you both are doing
well. And I got so involved in it.
Once I started listening that I almost burned my cookies.
So, please take that as a high compliment.
Good luck. Break a leg do well, get in the
first punch. All right, I'll see y'all later.