Hey everybody. It's me.
Katie asaurus. Welcome to episode 16 of
infinite Quest. This week's topic Comes To Us by
popular demand. When we asked what all of you
wanted us to talk about a lot of you said sometimes I forget to
brush my teeth and shower is that weird?
So this week we're going to talk about it before we begin though
I have a couple of announcements.
First we've said a couple of goals for infinite Quest this.
Week. We really want to try and have
100 reviews up on iTunes by the end of the month and with your
help, we can do that. It only takes a couple minutes
of your time. It doesn't cost anything and it
helps us out more than you can ever know along those same
lines. We've set a patreon goal of
getting 50 patrons by the end of the month, you can check out
patreon.com/crashcourse a quest for more information.
We are so close to both of these goals.
So if you don't mind helping us out, we'd really appreciate it.
And now without further Ado, and episode about how often we brush
our teeth. Transition.
Hello and welcome to season 1 episode 16 of Katie Knox,
infinite Quest and ADHD adventurous is now old enough to
drive. Our cast is driving a car.
I bet it's like a beige Volvo. It's like a, it's a it's a
Subaru. If our podcast was a car, what
would our podcast? Be Subaru, Outback.
I think our podcasts would be a 1957 Chevy.
Bel Air with wings cherry red. Okay, well obviously we're going
to go with that. That's a perfect car.
Looks way better. I've wanted that car.
My entire life. No, no.
Did everybody if anybody out there has a 1957 Chevy Belair
that they're willing to part with for less than five thousand
dollars? I will buy from you cash and
that's not a joke. Yeah, I also will just get her
the bigger p.o. box and that way you can just cram it in there.
Anyways. Today, we're talking about what
we're talking about. Hygiene in the ADHD, Katie.
We are, you know, why we're talking about that today?
Is it because you found out? I haven't showered in five days.
Katie, do you have showered in five days?
No, I showered, literally like 20 minutes ago.
I was making a funny joke. I'm glad to hear.
Well, I've just, I've just realized I haven't brushed my
teeth today. Oh, I haven't either.
Oh my gosh. Oh no.
So we have like when you first need to brush your teeth in the
morning you know that terrible taste in your mouth but then you
get used to it and so like your breasts still smells like that,
but you can take aa. Oh, excuse me up at night but I
and a lot of other people with ADHD have a lot of trouble
keeping up with regular old. Personal hygiene, not like the
major stuff, just like the brushing, your teeth every day,
and the showering, and keeping your clothes clean and sleeping.
Katie's, raising your hand. Her hand, what's up?
What is the major stuff? If not showering brushing your
teeth? Oh dude.
Going to the doctor regularly going to the dentist regularly
getting your eyes checked, not to mention, mental hygiene.
I figured are things like making sure your car registration is up
to date. Making sure you have insurance
that hygiene Eric. I would say it helps with mental
hygiene. Yeah.
I mean, I guess Whole lot of it. But all of those things you just
said, are things that, like, I don't do me, neither, I just got
a new glasses prescription this year and I, counted, and it had
been eight years since I've gone to the eye doctor.
I've just been skating by on the same prescription since I was
19. I really need to get my eyes
checked. I, I need glasses.
So I know, I don't really know what you look like.
I assume your Pretty because everybody says, you're pretty so
well, according to the internet, I'm pretty.
Subscribe to my only. She's not kidding.
So Katie, what are things that you do to try to keep better
hygiene? No judgment.
Here are just genuinely want to know what's really interesting
because literally like as we were planning recording, this
podcast, you talked about sleep as part of hygiene and I was
like, that's not hygiene and you really, yes, it is idiot.
I was like and then I Googled it because I didn't believe you,
and I was like and I guess like, yeah, like sleep hygiene.
That's I'm terrible at sleep. Hi, I hate that phrase.
Sleep. Hygiene sleep hygiene.
It doesn't make sense in my head.
Like it doesn't feel correct and it's funny because like, if you
if like I literally read a bunch of studies about sleep and most
of those studies refer to like, getting enough sleep or like the
process of getting enough sleep, as like, sleep hygiene.
But in my head, like, it's something so completely.
Separate from the concept of what I know to be hygiene that.
It's like, I struggle to make it make sense.
That didn't answer the question at all, but I wanted to say that
because I feel like for the purposes of this episode, we
should Define hygiene because I feel like hygiene could mean a
lot of things to a lot of people because to me, hygiene is like
taking a shower. Washing your hands, brushing
your teeth. Yeah, I think it is like
cleanliness. Yeah, but making dirty things
clean, boys. Like I'm interested.
Well, so according to the New Oxford American Dictionary,
hygiene is defined as conditions or practices conducive to
maintaining health and preventing diseases especially
through cleanliness. So I think the word hygiene
implies like a cleaning Behavior but I don't think it's, it
doesn't listen to that. Yeah.
Like cleaning yourself is part of hygiene but like not all
hygiene is clean. Clean yourself.
Yeah. What do you what kind of
emotions do you feel really when you hear the word if I'm being
We're really honest, like annoyance and Dread?
Yes. Yeah.
Because I have a separate neurological condition that
makes showering really hard. And so, like, it's part of my
ADHD in that I forget to shower, or I will like run out of time
to shower but also shower the act of showering itself.
Is awful for me. And so sometimes it's just
about, like, navigating the spoons of like showering, what
are what are spoons? So okay, so there's this idea
and it was coined by Christine was and Rino and I believe 2014
but that feels like a lie right now.
But I know her name was Christine Ms and Reno and
basically she invented this idea that like every day Or given
people who deal with like chronic illnesses and chronic
pain. This kind of like this this
phrase that she made up and the idea is like every day you get a
certain number of spoons or certain amount of energy, right?
So your spoon stand for energy, and taking a shower, takes away
a spoon or going to the grocery store takes away a couple of
spoons or like doing x y, z task.
And, for some people with chronic pain, it can be
something as simple as like going downstairs to get a cup of
coffee for other people. It's Larger tasks, you know,
like a complete shopping trip. It just depends on you and your
personal situation, but everybody gets like a finite
amount of spoons. And once you've used your spoons
for the day, then you're out of spoons and you're exhausted, or
your psychologically exhausted or both physically and
psychically, a logically exhausted.
And then you're kind of like out of commission for the rest of
the day. And for me, taking a full
shower, like washing my hair conditioning my hair because I
Also doing the curly girl method which is a nightmare like all of
that. Like that honestly tends to take
away a lot of spoons because of the way my body feels
afterwards. But like again the problem the
problem is is like I feel like none of this is relevant to this
podcast because I get such a specific chronic illness
situation. Like we are literally recording
this podcast in my guest room. And I'm lying on the bed because
I hurt too much to sit up right now.
Like that is that is how we are recording this podcast.
And so I feel like I don't know. I don't know where I'm going
with any of this. I just feel like none of this is
useful. No, I think it's good.
I like will use the term that I think is essential to bring up
in the the hemisphere the realm of the topic of hygiene which is
muscle through it. Yeah.
Because there are absolutely like techniques that you can use
to remember things and all that. Yeah, that the end of the day,
it just it kind of sucks. It sucks that whenever I wake up
in the morning and I have to brush my teeth again, I think
every time Not just do this and I did but it's time to do it
again. So every time I showers the same
thing. So what do you do?
Well, I so there's sort of a two-fold thing when it comes to
my ADHD and hygiene one is just remembering, just remembering
that it needs to be done in the first place.
And the second is active, sort of activation energy is which
executive function makes very difficult.
Yeah. What is activation energy?
Well, that's not a clinical term but basically, It sounds like it
could be a sounded, very official laughs.
Thanks, well, the official term as far as I understand is Task
initiation, okay? So your executive function.
Well, I guess we might as well explain this a little bit what.
So, when I use the term executive function, or executive
dysfunction executive functions are basically the set of
processes that go on in your brain, that makes your brain,
decide what it should be doing, what it should be focusing, its
energy on, and what your body should be doing at any given
time. Because humans can do all sorts
of things. Great, we can take showers, we
can write Symphonies, we can eat pasta, we can go fishing,
there's a million different things.
There's literally infinite amount of things that you can be
doing at any given time, your executive functions are the
things that narrows it down and decides what you should be doing
at any given time, right? So for example, if a bear is
chasing, you know, whatever that has risen to me, you write a
symphony. Of course, that's the natural
respond. Natural progression of events,
the big running away from that bear Chef's, your executive
function goes. Okay, that's the new tab.
The list, we need to get out of here.
Well, people with ADHD experienced executive
dysfunction, or basically you can think of it as your brain,
never settles on what the priority order is.
So if you start a task and you're doing something and
you're cleaning the, you're doing the dishes or something
like that, those priorities are still shifting around.
And so, all the sudden, who, oh, wait a minute, this isn't what I
should be doing right now. Cleaning the counters is what I
should be doing right now. And so you go over and you start
cleaning the counters and dented up to die.
But then halfway through that you're like, wait a minute, this
Is what I should be doing right now.
This is what I should be doing right now.
So, for one people with ADHD have trouble, starting that
process starting anything really?
Because our brain is constantly shifting around priority.
That's that's where I run into trouble.
Is the starting of test. Yeah, it's, it's, it's one of
those things I think there are too well.
So, I think there are techniques to help me remember to do
things. For example, when I, after I
brush my teeth, I put my toothbrush.
On the side of the sink with the head, like sitting over the
thing. Just, so when I like, go to the
sink, it's not like tucked away. It's like right there and I like
might knock it over. What?
I wash my hands so that clicks off this.
Oh, I need to do that, but then the doing of it and the
initiating doing it. Those are things that just kind
of suck, there's, there are ways of making it easier.
Like, I like hum when I'm brushing my teeth a lot.
My toothbrush is So it makes like a booze so I like will go
boo boo boo to all, I come to it and that makes it better but at
the end of the day, it's maintenance, it's not exciting,
it's just kind of boring and I think it's just I would be
remiss if I didn't bring that up.
If I pretended that I had some secret.
That makes all these annoying, hygiene hygienic things that we
have to do suddenly exciting and fantastic.
Because that's just not really going to happen.
There are things you can do to make it easier.
I Commend. For example, there are a whole
range of different waterproof speakers.
You can get nourish our which I within like the month learned
about like I have lived. My I mean I know that they
haven't been around for that long but I have lived my entire
adult life was like it never occurring to me like, what if I
put music in my shower and then I was like may do and I was
like, oh my god, well, it's one of the best, my God.
That's, that's, that's one of my biggest tips is there was a
period of my life when I like Don't know, nice things, I don't
because I have ADHD, and I'll lose it, or break it or
accidentally sell it on eBay or something like that.
I just can't understand. Let's for something for sale on
eBay. Oh no, I tripped and I listed it
on eBay. Oh no.
Now Jeff is coming over to pick it up in an hour.
You know, Eve age every day that you met Jeff, but I so I'm not,
I am not the kind of person who would buy a shower speaker, but
one of my roommates did and I have never enjoyed shower.
Buying more, I still didn't really, like, I would still like
I have to get out of bed shower, but but, but then, once you're
in there, it's like, oh, this is kind of nice.
So it was still hard to engage and it was still kind of
annoying to like, have to do it but it made it better made it
easier. Shower speakers.
I think part of the issue too, though, is that we talked a lot
about executive dysfunction. We talk a lot about You know,
the struggles of living as an adult with ADHD, but they're
still sort of like a. I don't know if you feel this as
much as I do. But I feel like there's like a
stigma about some of like the more nitty-gritty details of
being an adult and it's stuff like and I'm going to get the
like hashtag content warning, but it's it's stuff like
remembering to change your tampon and it's tough like
remembering to brush your teeth and To take a shower and
remembering to wash your hands and remembering to pee.
Frankly you know, and there's like this stigma to it or the
shame to it in that like well I have to be the only person who
forgets to change their tampon or I have to be the only person
who forgets to pee and like IUI. Very jokingly made a video on
Tic Tac about forgetting to pee because that's like a really
common thing with people with ADHD.
And everybody in the comments was like I thought I was the
only one I was so embarrassed. I was like nah.
If I am like I forget to be all the time and then I'm like oh my
God I have to be right now and I think discussions like this are
interesting because you realize both that you're not alone and
that people are going through the same thing that you're going
through but the approach is very different like I am proud people
are going to be like super grossed out about this but this
is your I don't brush my teeth in the mornings.
I have never brushed my teeth in the mornings.
Nobody taught me too. My teeth and more or less my
parents really brush your teeth when you go to bed, but they
apparently forgot or assumed that I was just doing it in the
morning. And so, like, I never learned
that as a habit and so, like, most of the time, I don't, I
brush my teeth like once a day, which I'm sure like everybody's
gonna be like that's fucking nasty and I'm sure that it is
but like that is how I have lived, the majority of my life.
And so very recently, I went to the dentist and this is actually
like I could go off on a whole I'll change it because there's
been dozens and dozens and dozens of studies done about the
quality of children's teeth versus quality of children's
teeth. If those kids have ADHD and like
across-the-board kids with ADHD ADHD have shitty teeth and it
is. But they like butts, like
literally they can't decide they can't decide if it's if there's
something like inherently different about our biology that
makes our teeth shittier or if because as kids were not
spending. The appropriate amount of time
like brushing your teeth or taking care of your teeth and
science is literally, they can't come to a consensus.
It's like half of 16, you know, six of the other.
That's not the right phrase. Fuck you.
I think you were doing. They were doing 601 and I said,
six, I was trying to say six of one half-dozen of the other but
then I panicked in the middle because you looked at me funny.
Well, that would also wouldn't that also stand to reason that
if it if the reason children with ADHD have worse, Teeth is
because it is much harder for them to maintain good teeth
brushing habits. Wouldn't it also stands to
reason that they shower less often and I suppose that's
probably something but that like what have worse skin perhaps?
What? That's like.
But that's the thing where it's like that's it's harder to
study. Yeah.
Because you can like study the rates of plaque on key right
teeth degradation of enamel and stuff and like across the board,
they found that kids with ADHD have More plaque kids with ADHD
tend to just have more, but then it's like, well, is it because
like you're supposed to brush your teeth for three minutes,
and most kids do it for 30 seconds and then they're done.
Is it because, like, there's something about the biology of
having ADHD that makes you more. Like, they don't know.
And I think it's really interesting because it's like
what is the cause versus what is the correlation, right?
I totally forget where I was going with this but I got
excited because I was really interesting.
I really like five really cool Dental studies today and it was
just like really weird to think about that like science
literally can't figure out if kids are bad at brushing their
teeth or if we just have more plaque, like I think that's
really cool. I think.
What's that kind of? That sort of fills me with this
wondering of, like, we can measure enamel, Decay and plaque
buildup. I'm so it's like it there's like
it's like I sort of Time Capsule.
Like you can tell, you know, whenever I go to the dentist, my
Dennis can just tell me, hey you've been brushing your teeth,
not enough what's up with that? So I'm wondering if there are
are Myriad other things that people with ADHD are just so bad
at but you can't measure them. So for, you know, for example,
maybe we generally have worse skin because we don't showers
often or remember to use whatever the heck perhaps our
hair degrades more quickly because we forgot I mean I hope
not I sincerely hope it is so fabulous.
Thank you, this will be his hair and all that.
But that's those are question. I haven't been able.
I might even be able to find any studies other than those Dental
studies, which I saw, but didn't read.
But I was like, oh, that's probably really interesting, but
then I opened it. I was like, whoa!
Gosh, then curious, if there are other things that perhaps might
be affected, I remembered where I was going with it.
Oh, I went to the dentist very recently because I hate I hate
going to the dentist because I have horrible gums.
Now again I just publicly confessed only usually brushing
my teeth once a day. So like here we the fuck are But
they actually like it was really interesting because the I had a
different dental hygienist that I normally do.
She's wonderful woman and she like, kind of she was like doing
it. And she's like, wow, your gums
are like really bloody and I was like, yep.
Like that's just that's how my gums are and she sat down like
it was just it was his moment. We had like this moment together
and she like sat down like in the little chair and she's like,
honey, how old are you? And I said, I'm 32, she goes.
It's anybody ever shown you? How to brush your teeth like
Literally this wonderful sweet little woman was like, has
anybody ever and I thought about it and I said no nobody has ever
shown me how to brush my teeth. She goes well, show me what you
do and she had me brush my teeth.
And she's like, okay, first off. She's like, I'm gonna stop you
right there. She's like, I don't know where
you got this, but that's not how you do it.
And the the the dentist came in and the hygienist came in and
then another hygienist came in and I had three women And there
and teach me a grown-ass, adult, a better, and more efficient way
to brush my teeth that I had. This was less than a month ago.
Eric, this is what happened. And they were like, well, how do
you floss your teeth? And I went that's hilarious.
Well, Kitty, you, you have the capacity to change some lives
right here. How, how do you brush out?
What do you do? Tiny circles?
Tiny sir, not supposed to you're not supposed to like go like
back and forth. You're supposed to do tiny
circles. But here's the other thing,
you're supposed to be half on your gums.
So you like go like okay what yeah I'm not shit like this
fucking changed my life so that you don't go like now like that,
right. You don't like back and forth?
Not cast. I know.
I realize this is our table. Now, I'm just telling you,
right? We'll do a YouTube video about
how to brush your teeth with the abbreviation hashtag.
Subscribe to our YouTube channel, but like, you take it
and you make tiny little circles, and that's what you do.
But then you like move up and you do it, like, across your gum
line and you're like, you're supposed to be brush.
Like gently, like you're not and that was.
The other thing is I was fucking like, oh yeah, rocking that shit
in there cuz I was like the faster I go.
The faster I'm done in there. Like please stop please stop
doing it this way. And so, yeah.
So you do like tiny little things and then, but you were
like making fun of my water pick the other day, but that was the
other thing is like, they were like, well, if you don't, if
you're not able to floss your teeth, which was also like one
of the first times that rather than looking at me and being
like, you're a fuckup for not flossing, your teeth twice a day
like Because that's usually like the Approach at the dentist's
office. They're like, well, just floss
and I'm like, I have executive dysfunction, it's boring.
She went get a waterpik. She's like, it's a little too
Water Bay. So it's this little machine and
they're like, like, I'm not gonna like they're kind of
pricey. Mine was like 100 bucks, but
like, it's like a little machine and it has like a little it's
basically like a very expensive water gun, but rather than
floss, it shoots water between your teeth.
Cool. And so, like, as you're like,
renting out your mouth with a thing.
Fundamentally flossing. But with this like, with like
this stream of like, highly pressurized.
A little power washer. Yeah.
It's a little power washer for your mouth.
And so she was like, well, if you can't floss, if it's hard
for you to Foster this hard for you to remember to floss, like
that's not a big deal, get yourself a waterpik.
And I said, okay, so like I tried it and honestly, like it
was kind of fun. It is.
It's like a little stupid pressure washer for your face
and like it's and it and so like that honestly, like really
helped because like that It was honestly the first time like in
my whole life that rather than going to the dentist and feeling
like judged or feeling like a fuck up or whatever because I
can't do the thing, right? They were just like, not fam.
Like will teach you, like, it's fine.
And I thought that was like, really neat.
I think one of the biggest hindrances towards getting
better at a thing in general is shame and guilt about it,
embarrassment about it because then you don't say to anybody.
Hey, I'm bad at this. Can you please help me get
better at this? It just doesn't hat like shame.
Embarrassment is just the, just the death of improvement and
that absolutely applies to hygiene as well.
Like, I am 26. I didn't know that you were
supposed to make tiny circles on my teeth just circle for one.
There's no class in high school. That's like, hey, these are the
things that nobody talks about about adulthood that you really
need to need to know, what makes you think of, there's a quote
from Stephen Fry British actor, writer overall Hero Of Mine.
Stephen Fry go please. Stephen Fry.
We want. I know you don't miss your
friends Kitty. You said it in a way that made
me concerned that you didn't, but I appreciate your clarify
hitting. I'm talking to the whole world
who might be part of today's lucky 10,000.
It's true. Exactly.
If you are just now, learning about Stephen Fry, you should go
read everything that he's ever written and watch everything he
has ever said. Oh, yeah.
Well, he has a, he is a series, a documentary, a two-part,
documentary called The Secret Life of the manic-depressive
because he's bipolar Super interesting.
Anyways he said in an interview I'm paraphrasing that I I think
we all feel like before we were born there was some class that
All Souls went to in which how to be a person was taught?
How life was to be done? We didn't get the money and we
slept in that day like we had a doctor's one week ago.
I do feel like that he'll fry. But this the here's the thing.
There was no class. Nobody really knows what they're
doing. And some people are getting the
like and so when it comes to things like, hey, I haven't
showered in a week. Holy schnike is like being able
to admit that to yourself and perhaps other.
People is a good step towards remedying that situation.
And so I think in a soul especially when it comes to
being physically clean like nobody wants to admit that they
only brush their teeth once a day.
I only brushed ratio times a day, do it the morning I never
brush my teeth at night because the only way I can get myself to
sleep is just by doing stuff until I'm so exhausted.
That I have to just, you know, flop onto the bed, which is a
whole other thing, but it's hard to admit that we as adults.
Don't do these things that children do.
But here's the thing, when you're a kid, if you're lucky,
you have parents or guardians or people in your life, who remind
you to shower and make sure, you know, where to be, and make sure
that you're brushing your teeth and making sure you have a
doctor's appointment schedule with reasonable regularity.
I mean, if you're lucky, you'll have that.
Yeah. But then, once you're an adult,
all that goes away. So I feel like my ADHD as much
as it affected me as a student, I think it is affected me far
more as an adult, because now I have to manage my own shit.
So I think it'd be cool if there was like some camaraderie around
adults who have trouble with personal hygiene.
So rather than be like embarrassed about it, we could
be like, yeah, like let's help each other out.
Oh sure. Well, it's interesting that you
say that because now this feels like Shameless advertising but
this is a real thing. On my Discord server that became
a thing a really, very and very organically.
Like I remember like right when I started the Discord somebody
was like, can we have a reminders Channel?
And I was like, yeah, sure, fam, whatever.
And I like maybe a little Channel and then, like, one day
I went in there like months after it had been born and
literally, it was just that it was just people would be like,
hey, I'm gonna go take a shower, who showered with me and like,
five people be like, I'll take a shower and then other people be
like, I'm going to go brush my teeth like whatever, and it
became this like really organic Thing where people would just be
like, I showered today and people be like fuck.
Yeah, you did. Good job buddy.
And like if you ever kind of my wives there's a tick.
Tock tick tock. There's a tick talker Max, the
snail Lord. And everybody on my Discord
server checks to make sure that Max drinks enough water and eats
enough food. And so I always ask Max,
whenever Max comes into my Tick Tock live, like Max did you eat
today max? If you had water say, and we
alter Maxon because like X. Max needs that reminder.
It's one hell of an event frankly like when I'm in your
life I get so I love it because then you're like, you're and
then when he says, yes if he's is yes, which hopefully you
does. Everybody just blows up.
Let It Go man. It's my favorite thing.
But like that is a thing that is like organically happening in
this sort of like community that we have built because I think
for the first time, a lot of us are able to talk about the fact
that like it's really hard for me.
A shower. It's really hard for me to
remember to brush my teeth. Like I have like a, like a.
I have a lot of vanity associated with it though.
Unlike I will fully admit it because like, I'm a performer,
and I'm an actor. And so, like, my face is my
business. And so, like, I'm really
protective of my face and I'm really protective of my teeth
quite frankly. Like, I have a lot of anxiety
around like having cavities, and like, having stuff wrong with my
mouth. Like, I have dreams, really, you
know, like my teeth will fall out and stuff.
And so I think because of that like I have taken a lot of steps
to make sure that a modicum of personal cleanliness is sort of
involved in my routine, but there are two huge butts.
One of them is mine but you mine, you do have a dump truck
Eric just letting you know, thank you.
Um, but the first is that, and this is something that we have
not talked about yet is that we both have depression.
Oh, that's And depression. Yes, changes everything it does.
The second I forget what the second one was that was going to
be such a good point. God fucking damn it.
Let me know if it comes back who will?
So I I don't think I hope people don't expect.
Oh, I know it was it was that the pandemic happens.
That was the other thing and the pandemic was quite honestly, the
first time in a really long time where I think I went and again,
this is me admitting something really disgusting publicly but
like I shouldn't say that because I'm sure there's
somebody out there go Like when I say, what I was about to say,
was like, I didn't wash my hair for almost three weeks.
Like I was just like, fuck it. Like I don't have anywhere to be
and I'm tired and my arms hurt and I don't want to and there's
a pandemic and I'm sad and depressed but like I'm sure
there are people who have gone longer than three weeks and so I
should not be judgy about it and I should say, you know what,
that was my personal struggle and that's okay.
So I'm sorry I said that everybody but yeah like like the
pandemic happened but then also depression happens and I feel
Like depression, Katie is such a different person, too.
I don't think normal Katie because Normal Katie doesn't
exist, but like, depressed, Katie is an entirely different
entity. It's me, Katie sores.
Welcome to the middle of the episode.
You did it here. You're halfway through Eric is
taking a nap while I record this.
So I'm trying to be real quiet. He's asleep, he's sleeping boy.
I just want to let you know that we just added a bunch of cool
new merchandise to her, Redbubble shop in particular.
We just partnered with my clique designs.
He was kind enough to design as a beautiful map of Loft for ADHD
and D. Now you can buy it on stickers
and stuff. Also I started in only fans just
in case you want a little spicy content.
Oh one last thing y'all are loving our Q&A episode so make
sure to send us your questions. You can do that by sending them
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website which is infinite Quest podcast.com.
Okay I'm going to go put some shaving cream on Eric's hand and
then tickle is faced with a feather back.
To the episode. Hey everybody.
It's me Katie asaurus and we just wanted to let you know that
this week's episode is brought to you by our good friends over
at honey. Playbox what is Honey?
Play box, you might ask well, I'm gonna give it to you
straight, they sell sex toys, but here's the thing.
How do you play box believes that pleasure play health and
accessibility are necessary for positive experiences of
sexuality? And you know what heretic Quest?
We agree especially in conversation with how tough sex
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How do you play box and have have fun?
Okay. Bye.
My depression in my ADHD were very good friends.
If you think of the maliciously, they are.
I try not to think of the party together, but yeah, we really
try to think of the maliciously, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Do you like? Okay, I'm gonna completely
derail this but this fascinates me.
Like do you actively try not to yes?
Why. Because one they're not there a
moral there is there as moral as As the rocks that we walk on
there. It's an amoral.
Are you walking on rocks? I was going to say tree but then
I was like well trees alive. So it's not a perfect analogy
and 10. Anyways, it's an amoral thing.
Well, I mean, I'm not religious. So perhaps one might believe
something else, but I think of them as just Facts of Life.
I have. My nose is a certain shape, my
ears or a certain shape. My eyes were a certain color and
I have ADHD and depression. They're just they just exist,
they just are. And so once I realized that, It
then any opinions I have about them, are the thing of the ones
that I put on them because they themselves will.
I'm literally personifying no. But, you know, my ADHD and my
depression themselves are literally a moral there.
Nothing. They're not good.
They're not evil, they're neutral and everywhere they just
are. And so if I think about them,
positively, that's my choice, if I think about a negatively,
that's my choice. And I don't mean to say like, if
you're mad about your depression, you've chosen to be
mad. That's not exactly what I'm
trying to say. Say it's just when it comes to
the my PhD in my depression. It's up to me how I want to
consider them because they aren't they don't have an
inherent goodness or Badness. So I get to decide how I think
of it because neither of them are right.
Anyways. Yeah that makes sense.
And honestly, do they take you a long time to work towards?
Like, how long did you spend? I don't see resenting because I
don't like speak for you. But like is that is that an
attitude that you developed over time?
So for what, I don't want to, I don't at all claim to have
arrived anyway. So it's not like and now I am
good. Now, I'm friends with my HD.
It's an intention that I maintain or attempted to Maine
or intended to maintain, but I think I've arrived at this
intention out of necessity because my See in depression
aren't going anywhere. So it's just, I had something
that I have to learn how I'm going to accept.
I can accept it bitterly. I can go.
That's just the way it is and life sucks, or I can just go,
that's just the way it is, and whatever my ADHD, my depression,
accompanies me throughout life in the same way that, you know,
my clothes do and my friends do, they're just things that exist
alongside Us in the universe and frankly, Nothing exists
consensually, nobody consented to be born, the rocks, and the
trees and the, all the none of those decided to exist.
They just do they popped in here.
So we're all existing here, non-consensual lie, together,
including my HDMI depression. If we're personifying, they
didn't ask to be the depression that lives in my head or the
ADHD that lives in my head and they're responding in the way
that they are inclined to respond.
And then also, the reason I had I intend to maintain the
intention of Of my depression and ADHD with reverence is that
ultimately I think I'm beholden to things that are practical
things that are useful. Yeah.
And so resentment towards my ADHD depression is not useful,
it's just not useful, whereas having compassion towards my
ADHD, and depression is useful, because it's so fucking wise,
Eric, that's so goddamn wise. Well, thanks like I definitely.
Want my mental illness like really hard, but I use it to
like find the fuck's to shower like that.
Like I'm and I'm just, I'm literally just realizing that
like in this moment because I'll, at some point, I just get
mad and I'm just like, it's been two weeks since I washed my
hair. This is regard damn dick.
Ulis. Like I'm better than my brain
telling me I'm not worthy of a shower.
I'm gonna go shower. Fuck.
And so like I use that anger but like I wonder, I mean, I
absolutely know that it would probably be you more efficient
to, just not do it that way because it is just constantly
like getting bad enough. And you have to, like, wait to
get mad enough to get over the hill.
But lemon, if you think of you as being, you know,
diametrically opposed to your ADHD and diametrically opposed
your lotion, both of them, so I guess would be sorry.
Can you say diametrically opposed one more time,
diametrically opposed foes? Thank you.
That was a Hamilton rather continue.
You said diametrically opposed like three times and I was like,
listen, okay I got it, hold on, I got it.
I'm leaving this in. I got it.
I was. So if you consider yourself to
be diametrically opposed with your mental illnesses, then
you're constantly winning or losing.
And that's not fun. And so if I need to shower and
either my depression or made HD or more likely, both are making
it extremely difficult to do that, and then I don't end up
showering. I lost and they won.
And that sucks losing sucks and it makes you resentful towards
the person who wins or it's easy to feel resentment towards the
thing. Yes.
So I try to think of my ADHD in my depression also need to
shower and they would feel bad if they didn't shower too,
because they're inside me. If I shower there, showering, Is
there like some Game Changer shit?
I hope so. This is some Game Changer.
Like, you are Game Changer in your friend Katie right now.
I want you to know, I'm not even bullshitting you.
Like this is never occurred to me, like, I like fucking talk
about, like being kind yourself all the time.
It is never once in my entire adult life occurred to me, to
just be nice to my depression. I've tried to murder my
depression with hatred and was like, holy shit.
Eric I feel like I just went to therapy a little bit well
because if you it's it you have to do it manually at first.
I think that's that's one of the better pieces of advice that has
ever been given to me by a therapist was she said you have
to do this stuff manually at first we were talking about
something very specific at the time but I think it applies to
everything. Yeah.
And so things like you know maintaining developing and
maintaining routines in the beginning, you have to do it
manually. You have to like, move your legs
to walk to the place but after over time I mean you're
strengthening neural Pathways So eventually you'll just kind of
go run sequence. So like for example, if you've
ever had bouts where you go to the gym all the time, I have me
too, it's been a while. But me too.
Here comes to do CrossFit. Oh wow, it's awful, it's pretty
cool. But the coolest part of my day,
if going going to the gym right now, if I were to go to the gym
right now, it would be. I mean, it would be awful the
whole time. Or maybe not, but it would be a
lot of fucking spoons, but I think things like that, take
less spoons over time because you just yet more your brain
gets used to doing them with the process is part of it, too.
Yeah, you know like I mean using your example like the gym.
So okay today is the first day I'm going to the gym so I have
to find a bag and then I have to find some shoes and then I have
to find some clothes when I have to pack a change of clothes and
that I have to pack some like cleaning stuff so I can Ideally
shower at the gym and then when I come home, I have to put my
dirty laundry and I had like, there's so much shit involved in
going to the gym. That is not going to the gym.
Yes, a lot of Music Plus, whereas once, and it's the same
with showering, you know, it's a, you have to go to shower and
find a towel and get this shampoo in the body wash and the
conditioner like the fancy stuff.
If you do the fancy stuff I don't know what the fancy stuff
is. I'm a basic bitch um you know
but like over time it just becomes my gym shoes are in the
bag. I've already got a bottle of
shampoo in there like I can just pick up my bag and go to the
gym. Yeah, it's just the thinking
about it ahead of time, becomes less, and less and less.
Yeah, I think I mean, I'm getting ready for your eye roll,
but it really is a lot about Meson plus, I mean it because
physically fight the urge to I rolled is so you're not
Vindicated. What do you think?
I said that, um, It's about having, it's about facilitating
the action. For example, if you run out of
toothpaste you have no toothpaste.
Let's say you have no toothbrush toothpaste and no toothbrush
brushing your teeth. The first step of towards
brushing your teeth at that point becomes get in your car,
go to the store, go to the things.
And then we get each day, you're like, okay.
Well, what else do I need to CVS, or I'm there, but, so, did
I had a list somewhere on my phone?
I'm looking for my friend, I can't find any really need to
organize my notes. Let Me organize my notes.
So on One's own someone, the realist and the realist.
However, if you have toothpaste and you have your toothbrush and
they are next to the sink, then your mise is n.
Plus, you can even go one step further and, you know, the night
before put toothpaste on the toothbrush and set it down and
that way you just stumble into the into the bathroom and just
grab the thing and put it smells piece would be all dried out
though. It might be.
Uh, no. No, I'll do some tests and get
back to you test test that, but you want to facilitate these
things, you can do a lot of work over time.
You can turn it into Into a slow sort of burn of effort.
Rather than one like, oh, get out of bed, do all the stuff
right now. It makes me think of the word,
facilitate weird. Facilitate literally means to
make easy. It's fussy, you facil?
Yeah. Like Festival in Spain in
Spanish, grunts easy. So, in French difficile means
difficult. So to facilitate something
you're literally making it easy, a facility is a place where
things are made easy. So you want to turn your the
respective locations, where hygiene hygienic things, And
into facilities places that make processes easy in.
This can be done in a whole bunch of different ways and sort
of requires experimentation like put well for example, me when I
shower if my towel isn't in the bathroom I'm not going to
shower. I don't know why it's just for
some reason in my head, I don't know where my towel is even if I
do know where it is I'll like condensed convince myself that I
don't because it's like well I can't drive around a towel so
whatever. So I keep my towel on the door
handle to the thing. A thing.
But then it's like, okay, there we go.
A lot of times I won't shower because I don't like the feeling
of stepping out onto the, like, little floor mat after the,
after the shower I have like, I just cleaned my feet and I'm
stepping on this like thing. So, I got a pair of slippers and
I put my slippers in front of the little tub thing next to
each other facing out. So that when I get out of the
shower, I can put them directly into my clean slippers problem
solved. So I would encourage you
listener. To really think into y processes
are difficult. Like, like, the minutiae like
all well. Like, for example, me getting
out of bed to shower and brush my teeth, all that stuff was
very hard because I don't like being cold in the morning.
And the bed is warm. And, you know, there's this
thought of like the bed is warm, the shower is warm, but the walk
to the shower is not warm. And so then I was like, huh?
I should have like a certain set of clothing that I wear when I
go to sleep so that Wake up. I'm already wearing clothes and
it'll keep myself warm. And then I realized that I just
invented pajamas. I called the pijama principle
well, like assembling a concept yourself versus having a talk to
you. I call that the pajama
principles that reason it's the greatest thing ever, right?
So examine the minutiae of why certain tasks are hard in think
of solutions to those problems. However, while you're doing that
maintain awareness, that, at some point it's still work, it's
still something he just have to do and you're not going to be
able to solve. Every problem is not a trick to
everything. That would be my advice, Meson
plus facilitate CI in pajamas. You know what I do?
And this is like a really silly thing.
I get all sorts of different hair stuff.
Like I like that's one of the things that I do, because it's
like, I know that I have to wash my hair.
I have so much. I shaved off half of my hair and
I still More hair than a lot of people.
Like I have a stupid amount of hair and so, taking care of my
hair is really hard. And like, actually, right now,
as you know, me like this is the longest, my hair has been in
like almost 15 years because I had a pixie cut for so long
because I just couldn't stand to take care of my hair.
Like, I just chopped it, and I was like, and then I was like,
but I like the way having long hair makes me feel.
And so, what I started doing is, I just started buying random
hair products and the like it's not A great solution but it
makes my brain go oh it once you get through that bottle of
shampoo that is in the shower right now.
Then you get to try that new stuff that you bought.
Yeah. And so it motivates me for both
now. Katie and then future Katie till
I get the reward of like, the new hair product.
Yeah. Um, also I buy bath sheets
instead of bath towels because sheets bath sheets.
Yeah, Have you ever have? You noticed that?
All of my towels are huge. I haven't showered since I've
been here. Oh, wait.
Yes. I have.
Well, I have. Yes, I am.
I forgot that I showered. Yeah.
I get bath sheets instead of bath towels, because they're,
they're larger and like so you can just like wrap them all the
way around you. And so then you're like cozy,
once you get out of the shower and it's like, really nice.
Know we should invent is like some sort of, like large garment
that's just made out of a towel. It's called a bathrobe, Eric Oh
hashtag pajama principle, any closing, thoughts on hygiene
things, that help things that might make people feel less
embarrassed or whatever, you know.
Eric, I'm not gonna lie to you. I feel like I went into this
episode wanting to be like, here's how to brilliantly
manager hygiene. And then, as we talked, I
realize I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm just trying to get
by as best I can. But honestly I mean I think the
big thing is just getting over the shame of it, like getting
over that. Of like, I'm the only person who
struggles to wash my hair. I'm the only person who
struggles to find the motivation to brush my teeth like because
you're not like you're just not like as much as I say You are
not alone over and over and over and over.
I think. Hi Eugene is really a place
where you're not and it's something that like a lot of
people struggle with and a lot of people Consistently struggle
with because of so many different reasons and so I think
just like acknowledging that and kind of what you're talking
about. Like just with being kind to
your ADHD and your depression. Like it's being kind to yourself
and recognizing that like it's not a moral failing, you're not
a bad person. You have executive dysfunction
and showering is a lot of work. Yeah, it really is, and it's a
lot of a lot of it involves being cold and that sucks
fucking hate being cold. I guess I would say Too Close
turn. Turn your bathroom into a
facility. Turn it into a place that makes
things easy. Try to make these things as easy
as possible. Try to identify stuff that you
can do ahead of time. Like, I can't explain how much
buying slippers changed my life. It was such a little thing, but
I realized that in the morning I Walking on the cold floor in the
morning, I hated it, but I didn't.
Like, I didn't notice that I hated it, but that was why I
didn't want to get out of bed this, because I hate that
feeling and I hate just being called in general, hence, the
pajama principle. So identify what those things
are that are that are causing friction and try to facilitate
those that behavior. Knowing again, that at some
point there's nothing else you can do it.
It's got a muscle through it and try to to treat your neuro
divergencies with kindness because they are amoral, they're
not, they're not evil, nor are they benevolent?
They're just nothing there. Just exists alongside Us in the
universe and you might as well make friends with them because
they're here to stay before we close.
I want to read something that really kind of blew my mind when
I heard it, because I wasn't expecting it.
But me being a straight white male.
I I'm obligated to like Rick and Morty.
You are, I have to, can I raise Point that you should just find
the video on YouTube. Oh, and play it.
Yeah. Because I feel like the way that
it's in, the show is like really important.
Okay. Like the inflection of it is
really important. Sure.
All right. Well everybody thanks for
listening and here's Susan. Sarandon Susan.
Sarandon is our guest today Rick.
The only connection between your unquestionable intelligence and
the sickness destroying. Your family is that everyone in
your family. You included use Intelligence to
justify sickness, you seem to alternate between viewing your
own mind as an Unstoppable force and as an inescapable curse.
And I think it's because the only truly unapproachable
concept for you is that it's your mind within your control.
You chose to come here. You chose to talk to belittle my
vocation. Just as you chose to become a
pickle. You are the master of your
universe and yet you are dripping with red blood and
feces your enormous mind literally vegetating by your
own. And I have no doubt that you
would be bored senseless by therapy the same way I'm bored
when I brush my teeth and my my ass because the thing about
repairing maintaining and cleaning is, it's not an
adventure. There's no way to do it so
wrong. You might die.
It's just work. And the bottom line is, some
people are okay, going to work and some people.
Well, some people would rather die.
Each of us gets to choose That's it for us this week here at
infinite Quest. Will be back next week with
another episode. But until then remember to be
kind to yourself, remember to drink water, and remember that.
We love you. Oh, and we do have one more
favor to ask. We hope, you know, by now that
Eric and I are so passionate about this and so excited about
what infinite Quest is turning into.
We know we talked a lot about the patreon and the merch
because that's what helps financially support us, but we
need your help to spread the word about the fact that we
exist. Tweet about us, share us on
Reddit, send us to your grandma on Facebook, tell your therapist
that you're listening to a cool new athd podcast.
Also, if you happen to be a producer at Sesame Street, let
Katie come on and talk about ADHD.
But seriously, thank you all so much for your kindness.
Thank you all for your support and we'll be back next week with
more infinite Quest. I forgot the name of the podcast
because I have a PhD