Hi everybody. It's me, Katie.
It's or hey, this me. Hey dude, and welcome back to
infinite Quest. How we did it.
I think people are going to have to wait and see and we'll miss
sometimes we'll do it. Sometimes we got, you know, like
there's a longer version of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air intro
and sometimes you see the long version you like, oh, it's the
long version. It'll be like that.
I when we say together, I've never heard of that in my entire
life. There's a long version of Yeah,
it's a whole thing like the the his mom is like a character, you
know, just it's a whole thing. Anyways, everybody ik has a
million followers do and you think congratulations.
Well-earned Yates is thank you everybody for for, you know,
your support and your kindness and supporting infinite Quest
along the way. We certainly appreciate it.
And if you're interested in continuing to support our
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We helped produce the podcast. It helps take us on a tour.
It helps us by cool stuff Technologies.
I don't know, it just a lot of stuff that's true.
That is not true sometimes snack sometimes I will admit,
sometimes you buy snacks, this episode we're going to be
talking about something that makes its rounds on Tick Tock
every once in a while and that's the Question is ADHD.
Superpower short answer. No.
It's going to be a controversial episode.
It is, we get a little spicier, we disagree at some point.
I don't want you to know that in my world.
That was I was a fight. Oh wow.
That was a fight to you then. Yeah, I know.
I think we're gonna be fine. Yeah.
All right, cool. Well, anybody's everybody, I'm
going to shut up now. Enjoy this stinger.
And Then followed by the episode, where we say, hey,
goood and Katie asaurus again, because, whatever because we
forgot transition, Hi, you didn't do the thing.
I kind of down. Are you just pointed at me?
I don't know what you wanted. Well, it was like you're gonna
say hi. It's me.
Katie was so I can do that. Pretty good, three, two.
Hi, it's me. Katie Taurus.
Should I also do the thing? Don't think?
Usually not say one. Yeah.
Because we carry two and then they Point.
Okay, ready? Yeah.
Dear listener. Hi.
Hello. I want you to picture me looking
really cool way. Like a headset on like a Liz,
Lemon stage manager headset on and doing the finger things.
I ready? Ready 3.
It's me just whatever you want whenever you're ready.
So now you're not going to do it.
Hi everybody, sweetie. Sorry that's me.
Hey good. Welcome to another seamless
fuckin opening to the podcast, totally clean, every time.
I think we're going to do it clean and it's gonna be really
clean. Let's get stupid.
You said you wanted it to be consistent?
We've never once in a cleanup job, that's true.
We can start now, I guess. That's true.
Yeah, it'd be weird. Be jarring to people.
I'm sure they'd be like, oh my God if they finally got their
shit together. Never come out.
Never, it's true. Well, I mean, I imagine like
Batman right now because I've been dressed as Captain America
all day, so I feel supermanny. None of bad sent to say, said, I
don't know, most of gravity we're gonna have like a voice.
He's like, I'm Captain America. Like, you only have a voice.
So I'm doing if I'm thinking superhero voice, I Think of, I
think if Batman. Yeah, hockey pads hockey pads.
Anyways, in case you dear listener, have not looked at the
title of the steer episode. We've been thinking about the
whole ADHD as a superpower debacle.
I know it was like hot on Tick, Tock a couple weeks ago and we
were going to do it then but we ended up talking about something
else and so today's the day because we have been dressed as
a superhero all day. So we've been thinking about
superpowers, we got it, Captain America costume in the mail and
it looks like they'll put it on and then his entire being
changed with the wearing of a couch.
I've never felt that confident. I've never seen you feel about
confident before. It's amazing.
It was wonderful. It's got those shoulder straps.
You know, where you agree that puts the shield on his bags like
shoot. So like forces you to keep your
shoulders back, you know, it's like pulling your shoulders
back, just you're very confident struttin baby struggling.
We went to Target and you were just like Captain America.
Yeah, it was nice. I got to wait a little kids and
stuff is very cute. Was awesome.
Let's see. You're obstinate refusal to take
out the costume is my favorite new thing about you all my other
clothes are in the laundry. I got to just keep playing, it's
really important. I got can't move very much
because it makes it makes Captain America noises when I
move, I'm literally doing the podcast for Steve Rogers, right?
Yeah, you are. This is our lives.
Look Kitty it. So I have one very, very close
to take you, seriously, I don't know.
Would you take Captain America seriously?
Yeah, there you go. Let's just pretend I'm Captain
America. Okay.
And Captain. America has one very important
question for you Katie. What is it?
Captain America. So two-parter.
Okay, one is ADHD a superpower and to do people have the right
to think of it each day as a superpower.
No one. Yes.
How do you figure? Okay, expand on that.
Well, superhero powers are real. An ADHD is.
That's my that's my first arts fair.
That's very funny because I think like, one of the one of
the big things and one of the things that we see a lot with
ADHD, especially in conversation with neurodivergent see is there
is literally an argument about like ADHD existing like we're
the 80s. She Community as a whole is
still fighting. For legitimacy and recognition
in a way that like a lot of other neurodivergent cease and
mental illnesses. Don't have like, you know what I
mean? Yeah.
And so that's the first part and so like I think that, you know,
the super elegant I'm going to talk about like on the personal
level in a minute but I think like in a world in which an
entire Community is still fighting against the stigma of
oh you're just a bad kid or you're just not trying hard
enough or you're just lazy. Whatever to then come out and
say no it's actually a magical power, it's completely
counterintuitive to them, you know, and I want to I want to
just preface this by saying like I'm really nervous about this
episode because I think this might be one of the First
episodes where our listenership doesn't necessarily agree with
us or me. I don't, I don't know where you
exactly stand. I have an idea but I just, I
want to preface this by saying, like you don't have to agree
with us, it It is okay, it is okay for you to have a different
opinion. It is okay for you to have a
different Viewpoint. This is just where I'm coming
from with my lived experiences of being both a late diagnosis
person with ADHD, and also now, an advocate and educator for the
community. This is my take on it.
So if you're sitting there going like, oh my God, but Katie, I
think of it as a superpower, and you're hurting my feelings, this
is not a commentary on you. It's not a commentary on your
beliefs. This is just me talking about
mine. Why?
Cool. That's very good.
That's very, very similar. I don't, I don't usually say, I
don't usually rock the boat. Yeah, no choice.
I mean I post a video on this. The the question of is ADHD
superpower, makes its rounds on ADHD Tick-Tock like once every
four months or so, it comes back around and we all have to make
our videos. Again, I'm going to put staying
our position and the on the most recent go around.
I was the first video I'd ever gotten pushed back on legitimate
pushback namely from I think. Yeah, Lee one of the hosts of
wait, what were we doing a podcast?
They posted. Are they commented under?
Well, the video was basically stating one your video, my
video. This is the video that I posted
stated one thing, which is I think contextualizes everything
that I'm about to talk about, please think about what I'm
about to talk about in this context, which is ADHD is not a
superpower because super powers aren't real.
Nothing is a superpower like you just said, so just first off.
Whole thing is an analogy whether or not it is a
superpower. No, it is not because nothing is
a superpower, so that lets just. On that, what I'm more
interested in it and in is is it okay for a person to think of it
as a superpower? And my answer to that is, yes, I
think it's okay for a person to think of their ID.
E HD is a superpower, but it's fucking soon as they start
telling other people how to think about their ADHD or even
worse. So if they Art thinking of ADHD
as a superpower as like, an objective truth about ADHD.
The DD HD is like a mutation, like the X-Men, and we're like
the next evolution of human beings or whatever.
The hell, which you'd be surprised.
It's a lot of people that think that that's fucking harmful
because ADHD is a goddamn disorder that affects every
single day of my life and every single day of the lives of the
people that have it. That makes things really hard.
It makes me like him to sit on my kitchen floor and cry at 2:00
in the morning or something. It's like, it really sucks in
for someone to say like, oh well, it's a super hot, you're
just not you just suck at having superpowers like fuck you, like
that's not cool. That is way over the like that
is absolutely not cool. So I think if somebody people
have the right to think of their ADHD however they want in their
own head but keep it to yourself like real.
I just keep it to yourself if you want to.
If that helps you like yourself or accept your nerd of urgency
or whatever like you know your mental health is your business.
Miss like whatever you have to think about, but you absolutely
do not have the right to tell other people how they have to
think about their ADHD. That's sort of where I stand on
it. And I think it's really the.
The thing that I grapple with is is it possible to think of your
own a mental disorder that you have your own mental disorder as
being a superpower without sustaining the idea?
That this mental disorder is actually a superpower and other
people who don't think of it as being a superpower or just wrong
or worse at it. Because that idea I think is
really dangerous, even if you're really careful with it.
I mean, I think that's why I think that's my big issue with
it is that it it's like I tend to look at it from like a
community standpoint and I think like the problem is, is that one
of the one of the, one of the things that I find most
frustrating like about Tick-Tock, is that There's not a
lot of room for nuance in a 15, or 30 or 45, or 60 second video.
The same way that we can have an hour-long conversation in like,
really clarify, like our thoughts and our positions.
But like I think one of the most harmful narratives about ADHD
comes from a lot of like ADHD coaches.
And a lot of like, you know, like life coaches like those
type of people and it's always the same thing.
It's ADHD is a superpower and all you have to do is harness
the power of your hyper-focus and you'll be successful.
Your you won't have any more issues, you won't have any more
problems and the problem with that and the thing that I get so
frustrated about is like there is a difference between
struggling with The the most cut, the common part of ADHD
stuff like organization and focus and and you know,
executive function and that kind of stuff.
That in some ways is like sure harness the power of the power
of your hyper-focus and you know you know get more organized
developed a better system like the same stuff that we advocate
for like it's the same thing it's just sort of like in a
different package but where it gets to be frustrating.
For me is like, but I'm still more susceptible to disordered
eating patterns, I'm still more susceptible to like you.
Nobody Focus repetitive behaviors.
My self-harm compulsive picking like addiction addiction,
shittier driving. Like, there is a lot related to
ADHD that has nothing to do with like organization and focus.
And I feel like the superhero analogy, overlooks, all of that
for like, for, you know, in a lot of cases because superpowers
don't exist. But the medical And, and the
medical and mental sort of add ons that a lot of people deal
with with ADHD depression anxiety, like that kind of
stuff. Like, that's not a thing that
you can just harder like harness your hyper-focus.
It's not something that you can just fix by, you know, finding
the right Kryptonite like it's it's it's a lot more nuanced
than that and I think simplifying this convert
conversation to like a black-and-white.
It's either a super-powered isn't is really detrimental to
the people who struggle with the other stuff.
Yeah. Does that make sense?
Absolutely, I think the ultimate, so so many trains of
thought that I have about this eventually arrived at do that,
but but superpowers don't exist in the first place.
So, what the fuck is the point. Maybe like I'm just being too
literal metaphor but vulnerable, I think, well, I think the thing
that's toxic about it or can be toxic about it, is that it puts
fault on the person with the disorder?
Yes, that's the whole, is that? It's you're saying like, oh no,
you don't actually, you know, Doing a PhD work.
Yeah, you're just shitty at it. Like that's why your life is so
hard. Is because your shitty which is
just, which is so antithetical to our entire thing.
Which is that it's not a moral failing, it's just it's a
disorder that you have to deal with it sucks, but it's not a
moral failing in the superpower thing.
Pull totally rips that away. Like no it not only is it not
like more certain. Not only is it not a disorder
it's actually a fucking superpower.
Yeah you could be taking over the world right now.
In but instead, you're crying on your kitchen floor, it that to
animals. It's like the exact opposite of
what, I guess, the method of thinking that were thinking up,
and I also think, I think any given mental disposition any
given you know, brain that a person can be given when they're
born has things that are beneficial about it and has
things that are detrimental about it.
And the question I suppose is, when it comes to like a
disorder, like ADHD is are the things that one might find
useful about it for themselves again for themselves.
Is it worth the things that they find detrimental about it for
themselves. So for some people they might,
there were there particular lifestyle, their particular
particular place that they live, their particular profession,
that they have their ADHD might be immensely useful in
circumstances circumstances. I mean, my dad was they invite
them. Yeah, exactly mine to my old
job, like It was made me incredible at that job.
And I know that no. Yeah, but it didn't gate, the
struggle and the, and the, and the difficulty that I had
either. Yeah, absolutely.
He's already has a wife, correct?
No, no, Liam. He's a line cook.
Like when I went on the line during service when things were
happening really fast, it was not hard at all for me to keep
up with them. But when things slow down during
prep and whatever that was immensely difficult, I like it
makes me think of Patrick Lawler's take on this.
They said, yes, ADHD is a superpower and superpowers
fucking suck. That's the best way because
that, that also, before Patrick made that video, like that was a
conversation that I had with Chris.
A pony, she's well-liked. So, it was like, like I was
like, I felt very like Justified when they posted that video.
But, yeah, I mean like I think if ADHD is a super power than my
ADHD is, like, gives me like Rogue Powers.
Yeah, where it's like? Yeah, The superhero, the
superhero where it's like, yeah sure.
You have superpowers but you feel incredibly isolated and
alone and you struggle to control them and you are
constantly like faced with this like immense responsibility and
difficulty in navigating through the world.
That's not very fun. Yeah.
That's, that's not a very fun thing and I feel like, I don't
know, I get so hung up on on like, toxic positivity culture.
Yeah, and I'm really nervous. About this episode because I try
really hard to be positive and I try really hard to to be kind
and compassionate but I get so upset with the Cavalier attitude
in which a lot of people talk about how they do it.
Each day is a gift, it's a superpower.
It's your lucky to be ADHD. It's like no my ADHD has ruined.
My mental health. It is ruined my physical health.
I have emotional and physical scars from the repercussions of
living with undiagnosed ADHD that I have to deal with for the
rest of my life. And I feel so negated and unseen
and unheard in this conversation about like, oh well, you're just
not treating it as a superpower hard enough and it's like maybe
maybe if I had gotten diagnosed at 7 or 10 or 12, then maybe my
experience would be different, maybe I would have a completely
different. You point, but like my viewpoint
as somebody who lived my entire life thinking that I was broken
and weird and alone to then find out that I have this thing and
be like, okay well that makes sense.
Now I have like a Launchpad to like jump off and like learn
from and whatever. And then find out that like one
of the narratives in this sort of conversation is but it's a
good thing and you should be so happy to have it because like it
makes you more creative. I'm like, cool but I can't
physically feel hunger. Like, I don't know when I need
to go to the bathroom. Yeah it's a it's a lot of like
real shitty Rogue powers for the exchange of like and yes I'm
very good at running a Renaissance Festival but frankly
like I would rather be worse at running a Renaissance festival
and know how to feed myself and keep my house clean and not be
living under piles of clutter but I'm just not trying hard.
I just need to develop systems and I just need to.
I'm just so lucky. It's I'm just lucky Eric.
No, not only idea was like that was like that was like a real
ran. That's great.
I understand, I really, would you be okay if you just tried
hundred about you haven't, you would be a fucking superhuman.
Like it's so much worse, that way, I don't know like I try
really hard to be open-minded when it comes to stuff like a
lot of the ADHD advice that's out there because I think it's
good advice for some people. I think that there are there are
different like severities of ADHD.
I think there are different like comorbidities with ADHD.
And I think that like for somebody who might be living
with just ADHD and not ADHD and depression, it might be easier
or it might be. And I don't even want to say
easier billing different, it's a different experience.
But like I was on Instagram, and I've slowly started making my
way onto ADHD Instagram and the toxic positivity and the and the
toxic like constant, like girlboss energy that gets thrown
at ADHD especially for like ADHD and women like, it makes me
deeply uncomfortable because I don't feel like I have a place
in the ADHD like The Wider ADHD Community.
What are some examples of that 8hd?
Robots and she's just like a lot of planners.
There's a lot of like there's a lot of planners and there's a
lot of like, you know, unfuck your house type stuff which is I
think great. And I think like, it can be
really useful but it all comes from from a standpoint of like,
and if you do this, your life will be better and you're in,
you like, your ADHD will be like amazing.
And it's like I just, I like, I don't know, like, one of the
things that I get really stressed out about and I
genuinely really question is, do I have a place in The Wider ADHD
Community because, like, on Tick Tock, I've been extremely lucky
to find a community of people who like understand where I'm
coming from, and get it, and, and support us and me, and you,
you know, in, in that way. But then, I move over to
Instagram. I move over to 2.
I'm trying to think of another social media platform and I'm
blanking, but like, those spaces are so full of that, like,
girlboss superhero, toxic positivity, energy that it's
like, can we just acknowledge the fact that sometimes you have
to cry on your floor at 2:00 a.m. like can we just
acknowledge that like some of us struggle with more than just
organization that it's more than just?
Oh, like I'm scatterbrained and I lose my keys like It's so much
more than that for a lot of people.
And so like yeah I just I just constantly worried that like my
position on my gratitude for my ADHD like somehow secretly makes
me an imposter or like an outsider or like I'm never going
to really be able to do this in the way that I want to because I
have such a different take on those experiences.
Yeah. I think I think you said to me a
while ago That Instagram is for you know pictures of like the
life that you wished, you could live the party.
You wished. You can be at or the fucking
Mountain you wished. You could get a top of like this
person. Whereas Tick-Tock is more.
This is what's really happening of.
This is me at doing the morning and and I think it's been I
think that analogy sort of follows with the two types of
communities around ADHD that you've sort of Fide.
There's like the real. Hey, I have an HD.
So sometimes I cry my floor, three in the morning and then
there's the hey, I have ADHD. So I have a superpower in here,
my planners and here, my whatever we have to pretend to
be this kind of thing. And I think that's something
that is made worse by again. Super powers aren't fucking real
there. It's the whole thing is weird.
So by saying, by pretending that ADHD is a superpower.
It's we already moved into the realm of Fantasy.
And on top of that or or along with that, perhaps comes, oh,
look at this. I got a planner and now I'm the
CEO of this company. Look at this, I started eating
kimchi and now my ADHD got better, but like once you've
brought up this fantasy element of it's a superpower, so comes
the fantasy elements of. Oh, if you just do this one
thing, then all the bad stuff goes away.
And the good stuff gets Amplified times 10.
And and and you're in whatever and sudden you get a cool
costume and you can change really quickly and phone booths
or something like that. So as soon as soon as the
Fantastical enters, the realm wherein they were in danger of
suddenly promoting these are I guess, I guess, how do I say
this? We're in danger of letting This
this I guess this make believe that a couple little things can
completely rid you of this disorder and make you the super
power that can change the world. We risk polluting the community
with with fantasy basically. And I think ultimately what
helps in terms of mental disorders, what helps solve
problems in general is realism, is acknowledging what's real and
dealing in things that are real. So I think Think it's sort of
strange to me that how I say that, it's strange to me that
something seemingly. So trivial like is ADHD is super
power. I think can open the floodgates
to an entire level of sort of toxicity, the sort of Instagram
things that you've been talking about the planners, the girl bus
energy. All of that into a community
that I think is, it's, you know, I like seeing the occasional
inspiring girl Boss video like yeah in Foreign video, of course
I do, but that needs to happen in in context of the reality,
which is ADHD is a debilitating fucking disorder that, as of now
is not curable, you just have it.
And we have to deal with it. And I think dealing in reality
is the best way to solve problems, not dealing in
fantasy. Yes.
Well my struggle comes from the well one of my struggles comes
from the from the people who were like, but I do think of my
ADHD is a superpower. Like it helps me get through the
day, like I feel like I have this like secret, you know, cool
thing. And like yeah, sometimes it's a
struggle but like contextualizing, it and this
like conversation helps me to feel better about myself and
accept myself. And and so like that's the part
that I really I struggle with because I don't want to
invalidate those people. I don't want to look at them and
be like you're wrong for needing to think this way because that's
just as bad as the people saying you should only think of your
ADHD is a superpower like it's the it's the same thing but from
the opposite end and so that's the one that I really struggle
with because I absolutely think that you know, and I know this
is a real story and I wasn't going to tell the story, but I'm
going to tell the story. When I first started dealing
with my myoclonic dystonia, I absolutely did that.
I absolutely like had like a like a narrative that I used for
a while where it was like, oh well, I'm just like waiting on
my Mutant superpowers. They're starting to show up, you
know, I didn't know what they were going to be, but it was
like, okay, I'm having these like weird physical symptoms.
I'm having these weird things that I can't explain and so like
and it was like and I never told anybody, you know, but it was it
helped me. It helped me be less afraid
especially looking down the barrel of like I didn't know if
I was going to be like that forever.
I didn't know if I was going to be like a wheelchair user for
forever and so I was so scared. And so like my my unsure D about
what was going on with me and and how I sort of like related
to it where I was just like oh my powers are coming in and so I
so deeply empathize and connect with the people who who use that
or like use a gamification or you know, things like that
words, like this helps me get through the day, this attitude,
you know, makes me feel more, more positive.
It gives me self-acceptance like that kind of thing. but the
problem is that those you have to be so careful because the
minute you start sort of talking about it in that way, is the
minute that somebody who doesn't think about it like that way,
could inadvertently be injured or hurt or impacted by that sort
of cavalier idea, you know what I mean?
Like yeah. It's so certainly it's so
difficult to parse through because it's like I would never
look at anybody and being like you're doing your ADHD wrong.
Like that is everything that I'm fighting against in the work
that we're doing. are doing but I also don't think that it's
right to look at anybody besides yourself and say you should, you
should be grateful for your ADHD or you should be what you should
feel lucky, you know, or anything.
And we did that interview where the guy asked us about like well
what about all the good things your ADHD is done on?
Are We There Yet? Yeah.
And I thought that was a really interesting question and I
really struggled with it. because I think, I'm talking for
so long. I'm sorry.
I have a lot of fun. I didn't know your podcast.
You have this many like, feeling like Randy feelings about this,
but I, it's hard because like my Ed, she's intrinsically, part of
who I am. Like, I can't separate myself
from it. Like I can look, and I can say,
okay, well, here's a place in my life, where like, my ADHD makes
my life harder or easier or, you know, whatever.
But I would not be Kate without ADHD my experiences.
My world of you, everything that I know everything that I've
learned everything that I've ever done is contextualized.
Wised by the ADHD by my experiences of living as
somebody undiagnosed for a really long time, by the
experiences of all wake. The sort of like comorbidities
that I deal with in terms of my ADHD.
So When a superhero loses their powers.
There's always sort of this narrative about like how do you
get them back? But it's still super mad because
you know what the end of this you can't seem to get his powers
back. You know that you know I don't
know. Captain America is going to find
a shield or whatever the fuck but like with ADHD it doesn't
work like that. There's the it is so it is part
of who we are and I feel like ascribing like mythologizing
that or or girl bossing that or whatever you want to call it.
I feel like it's some for me, at least.
It makes it I'm separating myself.
I'm purposely drawing a line between myself and my ADHD in a
way that is ultimately like not as helpful to graduations.
You dirty made it to the middle of the consider drinking some
water and celebration. Haha, we tricked you into
drinking water. Hey, Eric, yeah.
You look awfully handsome in those invisible.
Glasses that you're wearing. Where did you get that?
Oh, I got a Benzie little.com. I'm really, I'm really happy
used to notice the really. Yeah, they're very visible but
they're pretty soon. They're going to be not.
That's true. It was heel.
Is going to send me some fancy specs and I can actually see
stuff through and guess what? I have some exciting news.
See, you'll has increased their discount for us, what?
Yeah. Used to be of use code.
Kto. They give you 10% off your order
there permanently adjusting it to 15%.
Sweet. Oh, Isn't that cool?
I get my own cool. Is it going to be, hey, Good or
something like that. Hey G.
I could just be a good. Look at short enough already.
Okay, that's fair. It's fine of the two of us, I
have more pairs of glasses so it has to be us.
But hey everybody, if you want to buy some glasses, you can do
that. But faith is example.com and CEO
all that calm. And if you use cocaine to go,
they're going to give you 15 percent off your order.
And also I'm going to be partnering with Z little later
this month to do a fundraiser for the Trevor Project over on
Twitch. So we'll be announcing those
date soon but deal is a pretty awesome, cool company and they
are really great about supporting porting the causes
that I care about. So we're going to do a little
fashion show. We're going to raise some money
for the Trevor Project, it'll be a great time.
So when I announced that date check my Instagram, I'll let you
know. End of interstitial if used to
coat hey dude, nothing will happen.
So don't do that transition. well, I think we're sort of
circling around a question of Is there a way to think of your own
ADHD as a superpower without in some way?
Harming the community I suppose. And I think, I think there is, I
think there isn't, it just takes a lot of you, go ahead.
Well, I think, I think you use the term a second ago, you said
an attitude. And I think the, the line
between thinking about your ADHD superpower in a way that is
harmful versus in a way that could be beneficial to you in
that harmful to somebody else is attitude versus belief.
Like, if I believe that my TT superpower if I believe that
that is true, Rue. Then it will stand to reason
that it would stand to reason that I believe all everybody's
idiots. This is super.
I'm just lucky enough to know that or lucky enough to be able
to integrate that fact into my way of thinking, whereas an
attitude, you're acknowledging, that this is an analogy.
This is a method of thinking, this isn't about truth, this
isn't about what ADHD is, this is about how I'm deciding to
approach a situation or my life in general.
For example, you when you were waiting to get your super
Powers. You didn't actually believe that
you were going to and if you did, then you would need to
fucking stop at some point. Yeah.
Because you're not going to get super power but of course of
course you having that attitude is a perfectly valid way or was
a perfectly valid way and you navigating that incredibly
difficult situation and anybody who tried to would try to take
that from you is a piece of shit.
Yeah. And so I think the difference
is, is the person who thinks their ADHD superb.
Or is that just an attitude that they have that helps them except
themselves and and appreciate the good parts of them sort
animals are the good parts and bad but you know appreciate the
things that they like about themselves and embrace the
challenge. Yeah, embrace the challenges
that kind of thing are they is is that what they're doing or
they using a model of thought? Or they do they think that ADHD
is factually actually a superpower and they just know
that to be true because even if a person That factually that
believes that ADHD is somehow factually is super happy, super
power. The next stage in human
evolution, even if they think that and keep it to themselves
and don't say it to anybody else.
And just never let it, you know, let it come out of them.
Yeah. They're still increasing the
overall amount of delusion and and wrongness about ADHD.
And I think that in itself, it would be impossible for that to
not come out in some way. Whether maybe that's in the form
of Instagram posts. Are saying like hey look at me,
I'm in each Dean, I'm amazing. I think that's honestly like I
think that's maybe like you hit on something.
I think that's maybe one of the reasons why I struggle so much
with sort of like the girl boss energy for ADHD is because the
implication is, if you just tried hard enough, you could be
as successful as me and I don't think that's true.
Like, you know what I mean? Like, first off success looks
different on everybody, you know.
But I think like one of the reasons I mean, I like people
ask me for advice all the time and I never liked and I never, I
always like triple and quadruple overthink it because I'm like
well what works for me? Isn't going to work for you and
so this is sumption that if everybody uses the same planner
or if everybody, you know, goes through the same life coach
program or whatever. Then like that will make
everybody, like, give somebody the equal ability to do the
thing. But then you can.
You buy the planner and you buy the book or whatever.
And then you can't do it in the way that you know, you're
supposed to be girl, bossing then, are you a failure?
You know what I mean? Because everybody else knows how
to use their superpowers and everybody, you know what I mean?
And for those people, you know, for whom that exact planner does
work, they're all going to post and tag the thing.
And then, there's gonna be more posts saying that this exact
planner which then furthers the narrative that like, oh, if you
only use this planner, you idiot or whatever, which of course, is
false. I think just sort of analogy
that an analogy that I don't know what's going to work, but
here we go. That's the today th podcast, I
think, when people deal in conspiracy theories, conspiracy
theorist, people were all into that whole thing.
I think sometimes it's because the truth that things are messy
and don't always make sense and don't always happen for reasons
is scarier because of its complexity.
So it's easier to think that all the bad things happen in the
world because There's a group of evil people making them happen.
Then to realize, like, oh, the world is an immensely
complicated place. Like sure there are absolutely
some bad people out there, making bad things happen, but
then also, some people get fucked over for no reason to
tsunamis habit like just some, it's simpler for a brain to just
think. Oh it's all this one person's
fault or something like that. Yeah.
Similarly I think it's simpler to think of ADHD as being a
superpower that I haven't harnessed yet then being an
immensely fucking complicated disorder.
That has As parts that can be useful in parts that can be
detrimental and in all the weird disc, you know, messiness that
it actually is, it's simpler to think of it as being a
superpower that. I just haven't learned to use
yet, and there's hoping that, you know, because maybe one day
I will harness it. But again, I think it comes down
to. Do you believe that to be
objectively? True?
Or is, are you thinking or you acknowledging that, that method
of thinking is useful? Because, I mean, I can imagine,
I can imagine a person with ADHD saying, to another person with
ADHD, ADHD is not a superpower. No, it is not because nothing is
but to pretend that it is and see if that helps you.
It might not. I'm not saying it's objectively.
Correct to think this way. I'm not saying you know, the
only thing that's stopping your life from getting better.
Is not thinking this way but I can see that as being a thing
that might work for somebody. And if it works for them to say,
I am acknowledging that ADHD is not actually a superpower.
I superpowers don't exist. I'm aware Are all of that I am
acknowledging that, it's not like a decision that you can
make to, suddenly think of your ADHD superpower and all of a
sudden, you're, like, girl, boss, CEO of whatever I'm
acknowledging that, but perhaps it can be helpful to sometimes,
just just pretend that, that it is a superpower.
I mean, I walked around all day in a Captain America costume.
I know I'm not Captain America. I'm aware that there is no
Captain America, but goddamn it. But I felt more confident that I
was gonna say. I was like, I feel like The
Captain America costume is really great analogy.
Mmm, because like, I watched you be more confident.
I watched you carry, like, physically carry yourself in a
way that I was like, oh my God, like Eric is like feeling
himself right now and I was like, and and so like I feel
like that is maybe like weirdly like a really nice sort of like,
parallel in, like if it helps you be more confident if it
helps you, you know, if wearing the Captain America costume
makes you more confident than B. All All means go to Target in a
cock. Okay, Captain America costume
because you know, it's important to feel good about yourself and
embrace yourself and love yourself for all of your
followers and all of your feelings.
But the minute that you start believing that you're actually
Captain America and and expecting others to treat you as
though you are actually Captain America.
That's when the issue happens, you know?
Yeah. So I guess that's that's sort of
a weird like Sherry frustration I have about this is every
conversation about whether or not ADHD is a superpower.
I think needs to start with no because super powers aren't
real. So, let's just start there.
No, it is not, if you cannot agree on that, then that's a
whole other problem. Okay, then we need, that's okay
that's different because after that then it's can thinking of
it as a superpower. Even though, of course it
objectively is not because super powers aren't real.
Can that be useful? I think that can be very A
productive conversation and be a, very productive thing to do
for yourself. And perhaps, perhaps, even.
And I mean, perhaps because I honestly don't know where it's
all. I've been thinking about this
for a long time and I still don't know where I felt fall on
it, but perhaps, it could even be a useful piece of advice to
give somebody if done. Very delicately.
And you choose your words very carefully because you,
obviously, you don't want to communicate to somebody like,
oh, no. Not only are you do not have a
disorder. You have something amazing.
But you're fucking it up. I'm like that's so much worse,
but I can't imagine having a friend who struggles with a lot
of things that I struggle with and I can imagine a version of
myself who would find use in thinking of my idea to use a
superpower sometimes and giving that advice to somebody else.
But let's imagine you are in a depressive episode, right?
Going through some shit and Iraq up to you.
I don't like, hey man. Like I know, it's a struggle
sometimes feel like depression is a superpower.
Well, no, because that's not what I'm not saying.
Tell them that ADHD is a superpower.
I'm telling them to pretend sometimes that it's a super
power, even though it of course is not because I want to see you
and I told you pretend you're depression as a superpower.
What the, what? What?
Yeah. I can imagine that.
Wow. Yeah.
Well, spout. Well, there's some your, the Sad
man. Hello, happy the sad.
But I will move through the darkness and then bang oversized
hoodie. I can be invisible leaving these
social is wherever I will never get lost.
I mean, well, for one, I would say that depression is a
different disorder than ADHD depression doesn't have the same
problem when it comes to people claiming that.
It's a super power than a deep breathe.
That's my whole point is like why why have we latched on to
this idea of like 80? T is like, do the superpower but
like other other disorders and things are I think athd will
one. Well, a couple of reasons.
One, Eighty HD. I think it's just simply is more
useful than depression. I mean, I know that's an awful
thing is that? Because these are both mental
disorders, we're talking about here, and neither of them are
great. But, you know, My THD is
sometimes useful. My depression is almost never
fucking useful. Yeah.
Unless I'm like physically ill, and need to rest.
Rest and it's easy for me to lie in bed for ten days straight
then. But most of the time I diversion
is not useful into I think as much as there absolutely is a
stigma about ADHD because some people don't believe it exists.
And well mainly that I think depression is how about this
dangerous also? Because I've been thinking about
toxic masculinity a lot but depression can be seen directly
as weakness as oh no I'm just weak which of course is not true
but perhaps that's not why we like I Openly necessarily tell
my boss that I have depression but I might openly tell them
that I have ADHD. If I die, I like this might be
the first time that we've ever disagreed.
Eric, mmm. But like, I feel like that's the
thing is like there are people who view, ADHD has eyewitness.
There are people, certainly, yes, occasion thing.
You're just not trying hard enough.
You're just being lazy. You just need to apply yourself.
You just need to buy the planner, like, you just need it.
Think of it as a superpower and like, you know, it goes all the
way to the whole thing that we're talking about is like, you
know, No like whatever. And so like I don't know.
William like I think, I think the thing that we're disagreeing
on is is it ever? Okay.
Is this our first podcast fight? I don't I don't know if I'd call
it a fight but yeah, I think so. And that will cause one.
I think we generally agree on stuff and also if we disagree I
think we're both decent at articulating specifically what
we think. You know, and so, very rarely do
we actually arrived at an exact line and go.
Oh, I like I'm on this side of the line.
You're on the other side of the way.
But I think the question that we're trying That that were I
want to say sorry, I just sort of hovering over myself and
started listening to things that I was about to say, it happens.
It's not anything of a word for that, metacognition to make that
follows sick bird. Shout out, Leslie side, you go
follow them. Oh, I think the question were
circling or I believe the question that we were originally
disagreed on is, is it ever a reasonable thing to do to
suggest to someone else? Else that they should pretend or
that it might be useful to them to pretend that their ADHD is
superpower. Again I said, pretend and under
very precise circumstances. I'm not saying, is it okay for
that to be a piece of advice that a person gives freely to
everybody? Certainly the fuck not, but I
can imagine a relationship between two people in which one
person uses very precise language and again, they know
each other. This isn't a random person on
the street or on the Internet. This is a person that they know
Might take this advice. Yeah well or find you some this
advice to pretend that it needs to use a superpower.
I mean similarly if you're you know, you if you while you were
waiting for your superpowers, imagine if you were to see
somebody now and that exact same circumstance, you might say, hey
you're not going to get superpowers because super powers
aren't real. But to get through these days.
What helped me was pretending that this was going to happen or
pretending that this was the case again.
All of this lies firmly Only in the context that super powers
aren't real. So of course you're not going to
get super powers and of course, ADHD isn't a superpower but
pretending that it is you know, sometimes when I go to sleep at
night, I pretend that as I'm breathing, I pretend that energy
is getting shot out the top of my head like all the energy that
is causing me to overthink stuff, is going to blast it off
the top of my head. That is not true.
Of course that's not a literally happening but it's useful for me
to think that way. So anyways I think if we
disagree I think we're Disagreeing over that line is, I
believe that there could possibly be a circumstance in,
which is a reasonable piece of advice to give to somebody that,
you know. And, you know, might find the
advice useful to say perhaps try pretending that your ADHD is a
superpower. See if that helps you, if it
doesn't, then don't do it. You know, I think, you know
what, I think it is is the fact that And again, it's like one of
the reasons why I struggle a lot with feeling like, my advice is
not good enough for like my content.
A lot of times isn't isn't right?
Or perfect. It's because, like, I really
feel like you have to know the person.
And like the problem with Instagram is like these, these
people who are who are advocating for this, like idea
of these, like, you know, these like life coaches or whatever,
they don't know you, they don't know your specific circumstances
they do. Know how hard somebody might be
struggling or not be struggling. And so in conversation with
that, I think that's why it's dangerous and harmful to speak
to a community rather than to the individual, you know?
Yeah. Because it's like you don't know
what's going on and you don't know like what other
comorbidities or things that they might be struggling with.
And so, especially in conversation with that idea that
like, oh, you're just not super powering hard enough or you're
just not super, super heroing right with your ADHD, that could
be dangerous. Oh yeah.
For the wrong person to hear like that could be hurtful in
like cause like permanent permanent sort of like trauma in
terms of feeling like you're you are not, you know, quote unquote
doing ADHD, right. And I think that's my hang up on
me. Like I I really struggle except
you know, very maybe specific circumstances.
I really struggle with the Cavalier way that it's thrown
around. Yeah, you know, totally but like
yeah I mean if I meant some kid with Mal clonic dystonia who was
scared and Afraid and didn't know what was going on with
them, like I think I would tell him that story and I would be
like, you know what? I used to do is pretend like
dogs, maybe it was going to be an X-Men and I would just had to
find out what happened. And, you know, I knew that it
was silly. I knew that it was Was not real
it was pretend but it gave me something to think about it.
Gave me something to daydream, and it gave me something to sort
of like, you know, think about more than like the paint not to
like totally bring down the room.
You know, I might tell that kid that story, but I would never
make a video that 1,000 kids could see that says, ADHD is a
super-powered. And if you don't think of it
that way, then you're wrong. Yeah, I don't know those kids.
That's really interesting. I think, It's almost how it is.
Because if I'm claiming that it, perhaps could be useful to
someone to have, you know, to give a piece that piece of
advice to somebody that you know, very well.
Which I do believe is true, but I also completely agree that,
that is a terrible player. Terribly dangerous thing to
Justice Powell is to a crowd because to, you know, sure it
might help a couple people but it also might hurt the shit out
of a lot of other people, which and I, of course, believe that
we shouldn't do that. I think the question is then,
can we be trusted with it? Can we be trusted with thinking
of ADHD is a superpower if it is perhaps Useful in his precise
set of circumstances. However, the circumstances that
you most often see ADHD being called a superpower and is when
it is being said to a crowd, perhaps in order to get it to
not be said to crowds, we should just kind of go let's just not
do that. Yeah you know and I don't know
that's that's a judgment call. I don't know.
I don't like I mean the real thing is like we don't speak for
the ADHD Community. Absolutely are two people with
vastly different experiences even like between ourselves.
Selves like with our ADHD. Yeah.
And frankly, like I don't like my ADHD very much like, you know
what I mean? Like and so I think there's
maybe some people who do and I think they're men maybe those
people are right and I'm wrong. Like that's also entirely
possible because like the the sort of Devil's Advocate of the
situation is like okay. Well if telling people ADHD is a
superpower is wrong then is it wrong to tell people that ADHD
is struggle and common ADHD? Is a challenge.
Yeah because then we're perpetuating like a negative
stereotype of ADHD. I mean what a great idea
examples like. So my dad who was on the podcast
last season. Yeah.
It was actually one of our most popular episodes.
Go check it out. It's a really good.
My dad who has ADHD? He didn't know you.
Do you see until he was? I think it was 54 years old.
Yeah, and he and I have talked about this not like on a
recording but And we have what we've wondered, it would his how
would his life have played out differently if he had been
diagnosed when he was 20? Because by most measures by,
that is a very successful person.
Yeah. You know.
Success is not some objective quantity but you know he's
succeeded in his Endeavors. Generally.
Yeah. And all the while having / like
severe ADHD the, when he was eventually diagnosed only.
He was only diagnosed because I was getting diagnosed and they
were like, oh, just let Just check the pair, you know,
because it is due course was a strong hereditary component.
So let's check the parents to and my mom was like, no, you
don't have it Carl. Holy shit.
Okay, cheeks. And we had to make a bigger
chart for you. Like, my God is, he is very
severe, hyperactivity HD. But what it would have been
harmful Jim, I think to go back in time and say, oh, Carl, you
actually have a debilitating mental can just order.
Yeah. That would have robbed him of
something that would have robbed him of.
You know, living his life in the way that he saw fit.
And I think that's just that's really interest because we buy
what I do want to say that you are but I think I certainly am
guilty of Claiming that it is objectively true that ADHD is a
bad thing which isn't up to me. And so I kind of, well it's up
to you in terms of its you, your PhD?
Well, exactly. And so five, the Wormy Mighty,
she is a bad thing, right? I think for other people to,
maybe it's not, then maybe it is a superpower.
Oh, God, did we just come full circle?
He's a swell. What a?
Well, yeah, well I guess I, well, that's it.
I think that's the point that you made, and I want to put
words in your mouth, but if we have the right to think of
already HD is being a disorder. Because I do.
Yeah. Then it would stand to reason
that another person has the right to think of it as being a
superpower. Yeah, the difference being that
super powers aren't real but disorders are, but, you know,
whatever. And I mean, honestly, that's
that's, I feel like that's sort of where I land on can a person,
think about their own identities?
Yes, they absolutely can their own because they have the right
to think about well anything, however, they want, but they
have the right to think about their mental health away.
That they want in the same way that I have the right to think
of my ADHD is being a disorder that I managed.
But the trouble comes, when you start putting on other people,
which is really kind of giving me a mind.
Fuck right now because that's what we've been doing for 40 53
minutes now. Yeah, but but I also think I
mean like it's just it's just like where do you draw the line?
Well I think for every, you know reaction there's an equal and
opposite reaction science bitch. So like Are we just as bad or
you know, just as incorrect I guess is maybe a better way of
all the saying that unequivocably ADHD is bad or you
know, causes struggle, mmm, no, I genuinely don't know the
answer to that. Yeah, why I constantly
second-guessing myself, because I feel, you know, what I mean?
Because it's like, yeah, I like I read a lot of comments
sections, a real, uh, comment sections on tick-tocks that are
not mine. And there's a lot of
conversation on. You know, other ADHD take
talkers like comment sections about like oh well a lot of
people, you know, on ADHD chip truck early really - for like a
lot of people with, you know, they only talk about the bad
things and I'm like, I feel I feel seen by those comments and
like maybe a little called out but it's like for me talking
about the struggle is the important part, like voicing the
struggle and and, and being able and honest enough to say, like
sometimes I forget to pee, like it is hard for me to shower like
that kind of thing. Like for me, opening up about
that has allowed me to not necessarily think more of my
ADHD, but think more of myself. Find self-acceptance and
self-kindness and self-compassion.
Because I don't feel so alone because there's a lot of other
people in the comments who also go on.
That's also me that's also my experience.
So yeah, I don't know like I mean I guess we should delete
our accounts. Well I think the difference lies
in what you just described which is We are describing ADHD in the
way that we described a DHD after immense amounts of thought
and consideration about exactly what we want to say.
And I don't know if a lot of people who claim that it each is
rather have done the same thing. I doubt, I don't, I mean I
haven't taken many surveys, but I doubt the people that make
those Instagram posts about it. Eh d being a superpower, I doubt
they've had lengthy discussions and long, you know, armchair
thought sessions about whether or not it's ethical for them to
do that. So if a person did have those
things and arrived at the conclusion, that it is ethical
for them to do that. We would disagree but it would
be thoughtful. Yeah.
So one, I think the fact that we're doubting whether or not we
have the right to claim that it each D is objectively, anything.
I think puts us on better footing, Mast with.
Of course, the fact that scientists on our goddamn side,
we take, when we do studies about ADHD, we perform worse at
the things. That's the whole idea perhaps
Perform better on other things and we're not taking those
studies because we perform better on them which that's a
topic for a different episode. I'd love to see, I'd like to
take some studies when I about the fuck.
I'd like to take some studies the hypothesis of which is that
ADHD people will perform better on this task than other people.
I don't need a special counsel really, which and, I can't
remember what it was for, but I remember.
It was like a is some Kind of thing where they were he was
like a choice thing. HD people want up like being
like really good at it because like, we could handle like the
processes, I gotta find that study because I was just sounds
like I'm making shit up. Like I think I don't know like
ultimately at the end of the day I think I want to close on the
point of like you don't have to agree with us, you know?
Like if you if you fervently believe that your ADHD is a
superpower and that thought brings you comfort and
self-acceptance And self love in a way that considering it a
disorder. Doesn't that is okay.
That is this doesn't mean that you're a bad person.
It doesn't mean that you're doing ADHD wrong.
But my truth and my aspiring I frame of reference is grounded
in my experience. And so the reason why I talked
about the struggles and the difficulties and and that stuff
rather than constantly talking about the positive side of ADHD
is because the struggle Eels and the negative parts are really
the things that have defined me. The things that I have a hard
time with are the are the are the things that I sort of carry
with me. And so in my sort of sample size
of one, I can only talk about my experience.
And my experience is that my ADHD makes my life extremely
frustrating. It has brought a lot of good
into it, I've done a lot of things while weird shit had a
lot of wonderful experiences but it's an intrinsically part of
who I am and so I don't consider it a superpower.
At best, I consider it a new trend like a neutrality in my
existence but I sure know that what comes with.
It has done me a lot more harm than good.
And that's it. That's the end of our most
controversial. Yeah, we got I was, I was about
to throw a chair. I was up on the top rope
uncomfortable. Were you really?
I was, I'm very bad at fighting the way it will for what we
were. Not for we're having a very like
a fight, she really well, I'm sorry, I hope I didn't get
really scared that. I heard people say, oh you
certainly do not hurt my feelings.
And I'm terribly. Sorry if I did I hurt your
feelings. Okay.
Very nice opinions were respectfully stated.
They were respectfully stated in precisely stated in all that is
held for. You know, you go.
I think the more the story was don't be a dick to other people.
Yeah. It's basically don't tell people
how to think about this stuff. I worry so much about hurting
people's feelings. You want to do this sick,
patreon song, singing people who didn't hurt our feelings this
week. This is all the new patrons
because once again if you join our patreon, which is Cam /.
Infinite Quest. We put your name in a song.
It's like a whole thing. It's become a tradition.
I forced Eric to learn to play the guitar, just for this.
We've been rehearsing this song all week.
So here we go. Ready, I forgot.
And treasure and token. Where you started before you're
supposed to hear. Let's see.
Let's do it. A complete.
Let's just do. We got here?
Start you start, you got to follow your lips.
Feel the chord progression. I know it's a good one.
Thank you. Sarah is in trouble and token
mermaid, Kristen to and Kashmir Holloway Sarah, I'm a fucking
often. But different.
Ever. Zooey Deschanel cover everybody.
Thank you so much for being here.
Thank you so much for your continued support of infinite
Quest. Thank you for 1 million, fucking
followers. And from all of us here at
infinite Quest, remember to eat a snack.
Remember to drink some water, remember to Take your meds,
remember to be kind to yourself, be kind to others, remember that
we love you and we'll see you next week.
Hit that transition Brian there's no transition to what
it's over. I don't transition to, I guess,
whatever you're gonna do. Now pedantic, semantics in this
moment, that's my band name just because you're dressed like
Steve Rogers doesn't mean that you're the boss of me.
It definitely does.