1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,840 A lot of people think FK TS are about fitness. 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,440 And while fitness matters, you have to train, you have to be 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,160 ready to go, you have to be healthy, you have to know how to 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:11,840 move efficiently. Experience really matters too. 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,400 But after talking with enough people, coaching people, doing 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:20,640 FK TS, and spending a lot of days in the woods myself chasing 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:25,240 records, I think that the common trait isn't really fitness at 8 00:00:25,240 --> 00:00:27,000 all. It's obsession. 9 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:30,120 You have to let this thing take over your life and be willing to 10 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,320 give everything because there aren't usually crowds. 11 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:37,760 If you're self supported or unsupported, you have to be very 12 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:40,320 internally motivated by what you're doing. 13 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,560 And The funny thing is that obsession usually shows up long 14 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,680 before someone ever learns what an FKT is. 15 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:52,040 So my guest today, Bob Stewart, recently set the Bent Mackay 16 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:56,960 Trail FKT, finally succeeding on his third attempt. 17 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,520 But one thing we didn't get into during this recording that came 18 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:05,480 out later, as we were emailing before FKTS, Bob showed he was 19 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,400 obsessed with things. He was obsessed with fish. 20 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:12,080 Not casually. He's seen more than 200 concerts 21 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,960 since the late 90s. Back then, getting tickets 22 00:01:14,960 --> 00:01:19,920 wasn't like clicking on a Buy Now button to buy money orders 23 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:23,240 followed by complicated instructions, decorate envelopes 24 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,800 and send everything to the right place and just hope you did it 25 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,600 correctly. It was a process that really 26 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:32,640 doesn't make sense to outsiders. But that's what a lot of these 27 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,560 events are. And much like what an FKT is in 28 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,720 general, it's not going to make sense to people who don't get 29 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,080 why you would obsess about going so fast on a trail. 30 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,360 There's a lot of detractors out there, but that's part of the 31 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,080 fun in an FKT. You spend hours studying the 32 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:48,800 logistics. You obsess, test over the 33 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:52,280 details that no one cares about. Spreadsheets, packing lists, 34 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:56,280 resupply plans, weather backup plans, backup backup plans, 35 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,280 backup, backup, backup, backup plans. 36 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,000 And then you go do it and hope it pays off. 37 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,760 And if you're second, if you're the second fastest of all time, 38 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:05,720 no glory. And if you're the fastest, 39 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,800 oftentimes also no glory. But this was a really fun 40 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,440 conversation we had about what it's like being out there, what 41 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:17,640 these 300 ish mile FK TS entail, some sleep deprivation stories, 42 00:02:17,640 --> 00:02:20,600 kind of how it goes, breaking down the bent Mackay trail 43 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,480 logistics. And hopefully it captures your 44 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,520 imagination and maybe why that's so many of you have ended up in 45 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,720 this weird corner of the Internet. 46 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,880 So if you want to support the show, free outside podcast, 47 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,120 anywhere you listen, give it five stars, subscribe. 48 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:40,600 We're also on YouTube. I think we're going to try to 49 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:45,920 put out the FKT film on the Appalachian Trail sometime in 50 00:02:45,920 --> 00:02:48,560 July, maybe early July, maybe mid-july. 51 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,000 We'll see how the birthday party for our country goes. 52 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,960 We don't want to really over shadow that with our release. 53 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:56,920 But anyways, thank you for being here. 54 00:02:56,920 --> 00:03:00,880 The show is brought to you by John GJANJ. i.com use code free 55 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:05,240 outside for 10% off. I'm taking like 2, we'll call 56 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,800 them outfits on my month long pilgrimage to Europe to do some 57 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,800 hiking and run a trail. And I'm going to take the Snappy 58 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,880 Trekker shirt because it'll look casual and formal at the same 59 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,160 time, so it really rides that sweet spot. 60 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,400 The snakeskin print is my favorite. 61 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,320 And also, this is brought to you by Garage Grown Gear, Garage 62 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,200 Grown gear.com. I just got some Farpoint Alpha 63 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:32,080 Direct zip up hoodie that I'm going to be wearing in Europe 64 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,640 because they're lightweight, they're hopefully warm enough, 65 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,080 and I'll just have a good time out there. 66 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,960 OK, here is my conversation with Bob Stewart. 67 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,560 Today we're hoping to learn something about Bob. 68 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:51,320 We have Bob Stewart here, fresh off setting the Benton Mackay 69 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,120 Trail. FKT after this was your third 70 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,440 time on it, right? Third attempt, third time. 71 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,760 Yeah. And you have you have a bunch of 72 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,080 other FK TS. I think you just said like 2000 73 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,600 miles of FK TS. But Panhote Trail, Superior 74 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,720 Hiking Trail, which I've failed at, so kudos there. 75 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:13,520 Mid State Trail, PA, Appalachian Trail, number of stuff on here. 76 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,680 But how does it? Does it feel special that you 77 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:20,760 tried the Ben Mackay trail two other times and then got it this 78 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:22,280 time? Does that one feel a little more 79 00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:23,920 special than the other? FK TS. 80 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,400 It definitely does it, it feels special, but it also definitely 81 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,320 felt the scariest of all my FK TS that I've ever done, which is 82 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:33,640 kind of wild that I I knew what I was getting into, but that was 83 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,840 also part of the reason why it was so scary. 84 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,280 Let's start with the two first two attempts. 85 00:04:38,280 --> 00:04:40,240 What took you off the the first two times? 86 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:46,880 So the first time I made it 175 miles to Reliance, which is like 87 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:51,720 the only town that the entire trail goes through and it's the 88 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,880 trail is super remote. It goes through Nantahala 89 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,480 National Forest and I think it's Cherokee National Forest. 90 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,560 And so I'm used to Pennsylvania remoteness where like you're, 91 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,640 you're in the hills, but you're crossing a road every like 5 92 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:10,440 miles or so out in there, out on that trail, you're, you're going 93 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,360 like 20 miles before you'll cross the road. 94 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,600 You'll go 20 miles of trail, cross another road and you're in 95 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,200 the middle of nowhere. Yeah. 96 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:23,280 And so I got to, I got to Reliance and just before like 5 97 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:26,760 miles before I got to Reliance, I was looking at my ankle and I 98 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:30,760 noticed that it was like super swollen and I had no idea what 99 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:35,160 was going on. And, and so my ankle was like 100 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,480 super swollen. I had no idea what was going on, 101 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:39,880 and I've never experienced that before. 102 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:41,640 And there was no like acute injury. 103 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:45,280 It just came out of nowhere. So I got to this little general 104 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:49,520 store in reliance and I was like, I don't want to get stuck 105 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,680 in the middle of nowhere. I don't know what's going on 106 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:53,440 with my ankle. I don't like this. 107 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:56,880 I don't want to have to get like evacuated from, you know, the 108 00:05:56,880 --> 00:06:00,040 middle of the forest. So I decided to to bail on that 109 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:01,800 one. In hindsight, I've actually had 110 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,320 it happen a few a few times since, but I think it's just 111 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,360 like edema, like just like swelling in your legs. 112 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,440 I've never had it happen. And I had a couple FKTS before 113 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:12,560 that. So it was, it was sort of a now 114 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,680 I know how to deal with it and I I expect it. 115 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,160 So that was the first time, then the second time, and then you. 116 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,240 Wanted to go, you wanted to go back like there is a motivation, 117 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,560 like unfinished business, so you went back #2. 118 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,960 It was like, I was like, am I really not going to go back and 119 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,360 finish this trail? I, I, I don't know. 120 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,920 It's just like I started it. I've already done all my 121 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,800 research because I do it like a ton of research, a ton of 122 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:39,520 background like mapping and route planning and prepping. 123 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,640 And I was kind of like, I have to go back. 124 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:43,560 I can't not. I can't quit. 125 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:47,320 Yeah. So yeah, I went back this the 126 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:52,480 next year, exactly 1 year later, and this time I made it 240 127 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,880 miles I think. I was about. 128 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:56,360 You're getting close. You're almost. 129 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:03,640 I know I was about 50 miles short of the end and my calves 130 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,880 were just like super tight. I'd never again never 131 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:08,240 experienced anything like this before. 132 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,600 I like they were just like knots and I was ascending. 133 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:16,240 I I went to sleep, I slept for like 3 hours, woke up, walked 134 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,880 like 7 miles on flat terrain. Sort of like it's like a little 135 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,400 Rd. Rd. walk section. 136 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:27,640 I started to ascend a like 2000 foot knob and as I was going up 137 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,480 like halfway, I just took a step and I felt like a pop in my 138 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:32,720 calf. And as soon as I felt that I was 139 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,120 like, I know it's over. I didn't know what had happened 140 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,680 and I ended up getting a ultrasound and it was just like 141 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,040 a, a muscle tear. So fortunately no like Achilles 142 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,800 or anything crazy like that. Yeah, wild. 143 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,200 OK. Those are two very real reasons. 144 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,400 But you've had like overall would you say you've had pretty 145 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,600 good luck without injuries on your other attempts on the other 146 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:56,640 trails? Was this just? 147 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,240 No injuries on my other on the other trails, not even like 148 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,440 yeah, it's I haven't even, you know, had anything minor besides 149 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,560 like, you know, torn up beat and blisters and toenails that are 150 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:08,160 smashed. But. 151 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:09,720 Yeah, wow. This was your. 152 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,640 This was your white whale that was taking you down, your 153 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:14,520 weakness. That's exactly, that's exactly 154 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,800 what how I referenced it, yeah. So I want to go back, what got 155 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,880 you into FKTS in the 1st place? Like were you a through hiker 156 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,440 runner? How did you even take a stab at 157 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,800 these? So it's funny, I like sort of 158 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,400 try to analyze this and try to figure out how it happened to me 159 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,600 because I honestly don't really know myself. 160 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,480 So if you want to go like way back in high school, I was a 161 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,840 competitive ski racer. So I went to a ski ski racing 162 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,679 Academy in Vermont. I'd ski like 100 and something 163 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:46,080 days a year and I was like good. But I wasn't Olympic level, but 164 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,640 I was skiing like six days a week doing, you know, training 165 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,800 six days a week. So it was a pretty intense like 166 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,320 physical experience. And so I was into ski racing. 167 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:00,520 So I was like, that's where like my competitiveness comes from. 168 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,840 And I was also really into golf in high school, so I had like 2 169 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,840 weird, 2 weird individual sport, yeah. 170 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:10,680 Both funneled right into FKTS, yeah. 171 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,240 Seriously. And so my wife, so Fast forward 172 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,320 many years, I met my wife in like 2010. 173 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,360 She got me into backpacking and I was just doing like weekend 174 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,240 warrior trips. I'm sort of like checking out 175 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,600 like, you know, just figuring out what I liked and I fell in 176 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,480 love with backpacking. I was like, this is super cool. 177 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,840 You can like put everything on your back, you know, just 178 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,280 survive in the woods for a few days. 179 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:39,920 I mean, as a kid I loved wandering around the woods and 180 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:42,120 building forts. So I just am basically doing 181 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,720 that as an adult now. Yeah, just an expensive 4th that 182 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,680 you buy ahead. Of time seriously exactly my 183 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,960 dynamic tarp that I have and so I got into that I got into just 184 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,720 general backpacking and then I realized that Pennsylvania has 185 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,240 18 state forest backpacking trails. 186 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:03,960 And so I was like I I like, you know little sort of challenges. 187 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:06,400 So I was like, oh, I'm going to backpack all of these trails and 188 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,000 then I'll get like the Pennsylvania backpacking award. 189 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,280 And so the mid state trail in Pennsylvania is 327 miles and I 190 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,640 was working a full time job and I was like I can't I had a my 191 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,040 daughter was just born too. So I was like I can't take a 192 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:23,920 month to hike this trail and somehow I stumbled upon so I 193 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:28,560 yeah, I stumbled upon John Zaharian's Colorado trail FKT 194 00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:31,640 video and I was like, wait a minute. 195 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:36,000 I was like people hike like 50 miles a day for multiple days 196 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,480 and I was like maybe I could do that I was like maybe I could do 197 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,920 like 30 miles a day or 35 miles a day or 40 miles a day. 198 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,600 I'm like pushing myself. So I just started like training 199 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,680 and getting into it. And so when I did the the mid 200 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:52,760 state was like my first sort of like when I dip my toes into 201 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:58,240 like real FKT experiences and I actually hung a bag at a food 202 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,160 bag at mile like 200. So I was like, I don't even know 203 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,880 if I can do this in 10 days or 12 days. 204 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,000 Yeah. Because yeah, so I hung a food 205 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,320 bag and I was like, I can do the self supported if I if it 206 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,120 doesn't work out with the food I have in my pack. 207 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,160 And I ended up passing that bag and ended up doing the whole 327 208 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:18,680 in like sub seven days for my first FKT. 209 00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:21,240 So. Yeah, less than 7 days and 210 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:23,160 you're worrying if you're going to do it in 10. 211 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:26,360 Yeah. It's so funny because I got into 212 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:29,880 I don't even know what we call this sport, but this like 213 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,840 greater niche the same way because it was like, I want to 214 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,640 climb all the Colorado fourteeners this summer, but I 215 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,000 have a full time job and I have to like squeeze them all in on 216 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,280 these like 10 weekends. And so that's kind of how I did 217 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,520 it of like, well, I have to go faster out of necessity for my 218 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,520 job. It sounds like kind of how you 219 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:51,120 were backpacking or squeezing stuff stuff into and and kind of 220 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,760 the the ideas formed and then and then they enlighten you that 221 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,200 people setting these records aren't running every step. 222 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,560 And then it's like, maybe they're more approachable. 223 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:01,440 Exactly. Yeah. 224 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:03,400 I was like, I I just have to walk a lot. 225 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,880 I was like, I can just walk. That's how hard is that. 226 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:08,440 Yeah. And did that like break the seal 227 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,960 after that were you like I can do a lot more of these and I 228 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,160 want to try some more of these after you hit the mid state 229 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:14,840 trail. So it was it, it was a really 230 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,400 interesting sort of trajectory after after the when I finished 231 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,320 the mid state, I was like, that was cool. 232 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,520 That was an awesome experience. I don't know if I'm going to do 233 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,400 that again. And then I also had to hike the 234 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,080 Tuscarora trail as part of like the Pennsylvania, like 18 235 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,200 trails. And so I was like, obviously I'm 236 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:34,000 going to do the Tuscarora as an FKT. 237 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,840 And so I did the Tuscarora and that took AI think it was like a 238 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:43,320 year, maybe a year or two later, just because the, the the mid 239 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:44,680 state kind of broke me a little bit. 240 00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:47,000 And I was like, this is, you know, it was it was a fun 241 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:48,680 experience, but I don't know if I want to do it again. 242 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,840 But then after I did the Tuscarora, I was like, I just 243 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,280 sort of like fell into the addiction and I'm like just like 244 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,200 doing FKT after FKT. I don't. 245 00:12:56,680 --> 00:13:00,960 Know yeah, yeah, they seem to stack up, but also that four day 246 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,880 FKT is such a good length like it pushes you in every way yet 247 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,560 it's not one of these. It's unimaginable, the end or 248 00:13:08,560 --> 00:13:09,640 something. Exactly. 249 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:11,840 Yeah, it was. It was a good distance. 250 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:12,640 Yeah. OK. 251 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,800 So you start stacking these up, gaining experience. 252 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,200 Are you kind of aiming at more and more competitive harder and 253 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,000 harder trails over time too, as you get confidence? 254 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,760 Like how does it work choosing what trails you're going after? 255 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,840 Because you're jumping around a bit like Minnesota pit Hodi that 256 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,520 makai eventually. Yeah, so that so the 257 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:35,960 Pennsylvania ones, I was like I ran out of the Pennsylvania 258 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:37,240 trails. I don't have any more. 259 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:38,520 So what else am I going to do now? 260 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:43,120 And also my my FKTS. But they were they were, I was 261 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,720 happy with them, but they were also some like the Tuscarora 262 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,720 didn't there was a supported time before at the mid state 263 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:50,960 didn't really have a FKTB before it. 264 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,080 So they're all sort of like first known times. 265 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:58,800 And the even the so the Ben Mackay had Ivy Smith had a six 266 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,480 day, 17 hour time, which is, you know, it's a awesome, really 267 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,640 impressive time. But I was like, if I if I could 268 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,440 just do my average time, I should be in like the five day 269 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:13,640 range, but I didn't want to. So I decided on the Superior 270 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,920 hiking trail because everybody said do not hike the bent Mackay 271 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,400 in like June. It's so overgrown, it is so hot. 272 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,280 It is not going to be a fun experience. 273 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,400 And so I've always, I've heard a lot about the Superior hiking 274 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,040 trail. I've heard it. 275 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,560 It's actually possibly my favorite one so far for many 276 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,360 reasons. But it was, I've seen a lot of 277 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,120 people hike it. I've seen a lot of YouTube 278 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:38,400 videos on it and it had a really stout time. 279 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:40,680 And so I was like this, this, this is a time I can like really 280 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,560 race and push myself and sort of test my limits. 281 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,360 So that was that was one of the reasons why I decided on the 282 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:47,920 Spirit Hiking Trail. Yeah. 283 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:49,480 And did you, did you find your limits? 284 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,560 Did you find what you were looking for or did it just make 285 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,880 you wanted to more and go harder? 286 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,640 It so it definitely tested my limits. 287 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,040 I was, so I was basically like racing the FKT. 288 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,880 So I was every day I was, I don't know what the deal was 289 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:06,440 with that trail, but I couldn't move fast. 290 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,280 It's not a lot of elevation, but I was just like, I don't know. 291 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,520 I just couldn't, couldn't keep pace that I wanted. 292 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,840 I just pretty slow like on a 24 minute miles or 23 minute miles, 293 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:16,760 which is I wasn't super psyched with that. 294 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,480 But every night I'd sleep like 3 hours less than the previous 295 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,480 guys FKT. And so I was like sleeping 3 296 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,240 hours less and then making up three hours, and then I'd lose 3 297 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,560 hours the next day. And then it finally got down to 298 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:33,800 the final day and I was like, all right, I cannot sleep for 299 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,520 the next 100 miles. And so I basically was like, all 300 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:41,000 right, this is it final push. And I think it was 103 miles and 301 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,560 38 hours. I just went through straight and 302 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:48,000 I lie down face down in the dirt for a dirt nap with my pack on 303 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:50,000 for. I set my alarm for 10 minutes 304 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,160 and my hips hurt so bad. After 6 minutes, I fell asleep 305 00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:54,720 for 6 minutes. And then I woke up and I was 306 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,000 like, all right, let's just keep moving. 307 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,040 It's always the hips during the dirt nap, like they start 308 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,480 hurting and you just got to find a way to get vertical. 309 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,480 Yeah, it. There's like no way to escape 310 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:06,880 it. It's almost like claustrophobic. 311 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,000 You just like like trying to move around. 312 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,240 But the hips are, yeah, they're the worst. 313 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,560 Yeah, because it's so much. I mean, it's more weight than, 314 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,160 you know, all our running listeners would know, but it's 315 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,400 over for so much longer, too. It's such a repetitive pattern 316 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,880 that, yeah, I don't even know. I haven't found a good way to 317 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,840 train hips so that they're not the main thing that's sore at 318 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:26,880 the end of these. Yeah. 319 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,160 And it I don't experience like I run, my training is like, I 320 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,440 don't know, I'll run like 2025 to 30 mile training runs and 321 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,240 there's no way to replicate that amount of like force and 322 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,760 repetitive motion on your hips. So I don't even know how you 323 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:42,360 would train for that. You have to train for it by 324 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,200 doing other FKTS, that's why they're so hard. 325 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,480 Seriously. So was this your first like 326 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:52,600 sleep deprivation hallucination thing on the on the Superior 327 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:54,760 hiking trail? I mean, the Tuscarora trail, I 328 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,280 definitely was sleep deprived. I I mean, I've always it was 329 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,440 definitely the most extreme by far and it was the most fun I've 330 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,480 had with hallucinations. Like I was in on like another 331 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,880 planet after I went through the through the night. 332 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,000 The night wasn't a big deal. I was just like, you know, your 333 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,319 usual like, is that a stump or a bear? 334 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,079 Is that AI don't know something crazy. 335 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:22,440 But the next day I was having like full like seeing people and 336 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,160 like faces and I was taking pictures and sending them to my 337 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:26,720 wife. And I'm like, that is a super 338 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,280 villain. Like a villain for like a super 339 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,560 and like on a tree, like, like the knots in a tree. 340 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:36,680 Lots of like smiley faces and then frowny faces and like, I 341 00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:38,440 don't know, and like the blazes on the trees. 342 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:40,120 Yeah. Wow, So what? 343 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:42,280 Yeah. What is she thinking when you 344 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:44,640 she's getting those? Did you find out after the fact? 345 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:46,760 And she's home with kids and stuff too. 346 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,600 So she's always amazed. She's like, how are you so 347 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,760 coherent? She expects me to be like, I 348 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,120 don't know, like totally incoherent and just like 349 00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:55,880 stumbling around. But I'll, I'll be like walking 350 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,640 along and I don't know. I'll just text her like very 351 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,520 coherent stuff. And she's like, I'm amazed that 352 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,920 you're able to like do this after you haven't, you haven't 353 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,280 slept in 30 hours. I don't know. 354 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,440 Your texts have like perfect grammar and everything once 355 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:11,080 you're just hallucinating. Yeah, it was funny on the on the 356 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,840 Bent Mackay trail. One of our kids, this is like 357 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,280 like TMI. But one of our kids, she's like, 358 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,200 hey, Caroline has lice. And I'm like, oh, no. 359 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,600 And I'm like, so I was like, make sure you use this, this 360 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:25,920 like lice stuff. It works better than the 361 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,480 Permethrin stuff because the Permethrin stuff doesn't work 362 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:29,920 anymore. And she's like, how are you 363 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,040 doing this at 2:00 AM? You know, after you, you're on 364 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:35,080 like day three of your Bent Mackay FKT. 365 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,520 Oh man, yeah, it it never, never stops for you. 366 00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:42,160 Let's dive into the Bette McKay because it's really fun and you 367 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:46,480 have a really good, what do you call it FKT report, I guess here 368 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,680 too. So was it did you have like fear 369 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,240 or nerves going into this third time attempting it. 370 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,000 We talked through the 1st 2:00 but had it like grown in your 371 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,480 head? Absolutely. 372 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,720 And it's weird because I've done other FKTS since then since I 373 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,320 tore my calf, but this one I was like, I mean it. 374 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,880 First of all, it's got 65,000 feet of for over 289 miles. 375 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,160 And so it's it's not as much as the long Trail, but it's it's 376 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,200 more than you know, more than the Panhone, more than Spirit 377 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,720 hiking trail, more than I don't know, I think it might be even 378 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,760 on par with John Muir Trail, but I'm not I can't, I don't 379 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:22,960 remember that the feet. Yeah, John Muir I think has 380 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,000 less, but it's a little bit shorter too. 381 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,440 So maybe soon per mile, but yeah, a little different. 382 00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:32,560 Yeah, and I knew. So I was a little anxious about, 383 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:37,280 you know, that and then I knew because my previous years I'd 384 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,560 attempted it in March and that in March, the trail isn't really 385 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,680 there's no overgrowth. There's no like it's, it's in 386 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:45,760 pretty good shape. And this year I was doing it in 387 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,440 May. I actually had AI strained A 388 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,760 calf. I strained my a different the 389 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,160 other opposite calf about two weeks before I was supposed to 390 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:56,320 start my attempt in March. Yeah. 391 00:19:58,120 --> 00:20:01,280 Wow the mental gymnastics even get to the start line and feel 392 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,840 confident. Seriously, I was like so bummed 393 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:05,800 out. I mean, I've been planning, like 394 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,200 waiting a year prepping planning and then two weeks before I, it 395 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,760 was just like a super easy fifty mile run. 396 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:15,120 And I just like developed this weird knot in my calf that, you 397 00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:18,960 know, I, I assume was like a mild strain, but I was like, I 398 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,480 can't dive head first into it, into the Ben Mackay FKT with 399 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,720 like with not being 100%. Yeah. 400 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,320 And so, so that heals up and then get together pretty 401 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:29,720 quickly. Yeah, so it healed up. 402 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:32,400 I felt good. And then yeah, I was, I was 403 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,600 ready to go. I was, I was definitely nervous 404 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,880 though, because I was like the the trail is going to be super 405 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,080 overgrown. It's going to be, it's just 406 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:41,880 going to be like there's more variables that I haven't 407 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,000 experienced that I'm adding into an already difficult trail. 408 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:50,240 And in, in hindsight it, it really the trail, I mean it was 409 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:52,760 a little overgrown, but it didn't really the, the 410 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,040 additional daylight that I gained from doing it in May was 411 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,280 much more of an advantage than any any overgrowth. 412 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:03,480 And it was actually the, the trail crews trimmed a bunch of 413 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:05,560 the blow downs. So there are even fewer blow 414 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,560 downs now than there were last March. 415 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:12,280 So my concerns were not really. But yeah, so luck is going your 416 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:13,800 way. I thought it would be fun as we 417 00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:17,160 like go through it and hit some of the points. 418 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:21,320 But also like I want to hear or let people hear too. 419 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,120 What kind of your strategy or plan is and then when kind of 420 00:21:25,120 --> 00:21:28,240 you have to sway from it? So I mean, it looks like the 421 00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,920 plan from the beginning was a pretty beefy day, one you ended 422 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,800 up with like over 60 miles, about 14,000 feet of gain. 423 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,280 And then it looks like you only slept one hour that night. 424 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,800 Was that the plan to just jump right in and send it? 425 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,720 So that's always my plan. I got, I, I sort of glean that 426 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,520 from John Kelly. I used to try to do the opposite 427 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,320 where I was like, let me bank a bunch of hours in the beginning 428 00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,040 and not, not like devastate myself and like be sleep 429 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,280 deprived on day 2. And I've heard John Kelly say 430 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,720 you got to just go. Like you have the most rest on 431 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,720 day one. So you need to take advantage of 432 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,800 that and just go straight through the that first night. 433 00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,440 And so I've switched I think every, I think the Pinhote 434 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,080 Superior hiking trail in this one, I've all I've done one 435 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,760 hour. And so I just do like one hour 436 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:22,000 rest that first night. And usually it's like 1/2 hour 437 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,880 before and 1/2 hour after. So I ended up stopping for about 438 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:27,400 two hours, maybe a little less, maybe an hour, 40 minutes. 439 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:29,480 But yeah, that's so that's my strategy. 440 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,160 First night is to yeah. And do you do you have planned 441 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,800 when that hour is going to be or is that all by feel on that day 442 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,600 one? It's usually so I every every 443 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,800 FKTI have like my sleep spots sort of pre planned and I know 444 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,560 like where's a good spot to stop this one. 445 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,040 So that was actually another the the very first year I did the 446 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,440 bent Mackay, I had booked like a flight. 447 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,480 So I booked a flight down to Atlanta. 448 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,920 I got, I rented a car, came to the northern terminus and so I 449 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:00,960 had a flight booked down and a flight booked back. 450 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,560 And so I, I couldn't, I couldn't adjust the date when I started. 451 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,840 And so I learned I will not do that ever again. 452 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,320 Because when I started the Ben Wakai the first time, it was 453 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,360 like torrential downpour like an inch and a half to two inches of 454 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:18,360 rain the first day. And so I started raining at, I 455 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:21,360 think it was like 2:00 PM it started raining and I hiked in 456 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,360 like torrential downpour and thunderstorms from 2:00 PM until 457 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:26,920 midnight. And this is March in the 458 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,360 Smokies, which are at like, you know, 4000 feet. 459 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:34,520 And I was so cold that I, I stopped about, I think it was 460 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:38,240 like 8 or 9 miles before my plan stopped because I, I, it was 461 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,480 like, I have to get warm. I'm like going hypothermic. 462 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,960 And so that first, that first attempt I quit before I wanted 463 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,600 to the last two, I stopped at the same spot. 464 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,800 So I executed my my plan but. Yeah, it's such an interesting 465 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,960 lesson to learn and I'm right there with you. 466 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,600 I actually plan to do the Arizona Trail. 467 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,600 I don't even remember starting someday. 468 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,960 And it was just like so overwhelmed, wasn't feeling that 469 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,600 I just waited till the next day and I was like a new human. 470 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,800 It's that that flexibility is basically why FK TS are so 471 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,480 great. You can pick the time of year, 472 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,480 the direction of what you're taking, all those things and 473 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,440 giving up some of that by like the regimented travel schedule 474 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,880 can just like take away some of that enjoyment of it. 475 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:21,720 Exactly. And that's that's part of the 476 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,520 reason why I do FKTS and how I got into them is because I 477 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,560 really despise running and just like being I can backpack in the 478 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,320 rain totally fine. But like doing FKT in the rain, 479 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:36,720 it's already very uncomfortable as it is then then to be in the 480 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,280 rain and like you can't take out your phone to navigate, you 481 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,800 can't listen to podcasts, your hands are freezing. 482 00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:43,920 Like everything is just more difficult. 483 00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:47,360 So after that experience I'm like never again will I like 484 00:24:47,360 --> 00:24:50,280 lock myself into a start date. I just need to be able to be 485 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,880 flexible. Yeah, there's like rain 486 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,320 paralysis where you don't want to get things out of your pack 487 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,120 or more calories, you don't want to take your phone out and 488 00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:01,360 you're just like walk in hunched over, trying to stay as warm and 489 00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:03,920 dry as possible. It's it's really the worst thing 490 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,800 on an FKT. You can't do anything. 491 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,800 That and that that happened on my Pinhote FKT in, in November 492 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,760 on like the fifth day. It was like there was a, there's 493 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,240 a 27 mile Rd. walk and that it, it would like rain a little bit, 494 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,560 then it would stop and then I'd get hot and I have all my rain 495 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:21,360 gear on. Then I'd stop, take my rain gear 496 00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:24,280 off, put in my pack, and then then it would start raining 497 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,600 again. And so I was like hoping to make 498 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:27,920 up all this time on the road walk. 499 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,920 And I ended up was was like slower than I wanted because I'm 500 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,520 like taking rain gear off, putting it on my feet are like 501 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,440 totally macerated. Yeah. 502 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,920 So yeah, rain. Rain is not make things easier. 503 00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:42,120 No, especially down there too where you're usually greeted 504 00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:45,520 with humidity after, so everything that you let get wet 505 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,000 is going to stay wet the rest of the FKT. 506 00:25:48,120 --> 00:25:51,680 Exactly, Yeah. OK, So execute day one really 507 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,440 well and then it looks like like a more manageable bite with like 508 00:25:55,440 --> 00:26:00,840 11,000 plus feet, 53 miles is that yeah, I guess like what's 509 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,240 the the strategy here? Are things feeling good and then 510 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,760 eventful stuff starts happening around this day too forward. 511 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,600 Yeah. Yeah, so this this section is on 512 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:12,560 the Lake Shore Trail and the Smoky still. 513 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,960 It's like 30 miles. It's kind of boring. 514 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,520 It's you're just basically like it's it's flat and it's nice in 515 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,840 the in March because you're getting like views of the lake 516 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,600 of Fontana Lake that it was just kind of like walking through the 517 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,880 woods and you like you're on the lake a little bit. 518 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,360 You go into this like further into the the National Park, but 519 00:26:30,360 --> 00:26:31,760 you you're on that for like 30 miles. 520 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,400 I made I made really good pace compared to last year. 521 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,680 I was pretty psyched. You pop out on Fontana Dam and 522 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,720 then you basically follow the AT for I think it's like 2 or 3 523 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,880 miles. And then from there, you just 524 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,480 hop out, you follow a ridgeline, and then from there you go into 525 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,720 the National Forest where that's when it it starts getting super 526 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,440 lonely and super remote. Yeah, and there's not a lot of 527 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,440 people on this trail in general, right? 528 00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,240 No, I passed 2 through hikers. I don't even know. 529 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,120 I didn't pass a lot of people. I'm not, I think 2 through 530 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:07,560 hikers and maybe a couple other day hikers in the Smokies, but 531 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:08,560 that's pretty much it. Yeah. 532 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:09,920 You're not seeing a lot of people. 533 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,160 And one of the one of the three hikers, he was coming at me and 534 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:14,960 he's like, are you a real person? 535 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:17,920 He's like, am I seeing something? 536 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:19,880 And I'm like, now I'm real. He's like, I haven't seen 537 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,240 anybody in like 3 days. Wow, do you have a trail name? 538 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,360 Just Bob. I was thinking that was it. 539 00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:28,000 It's on some things. So that's good. 540 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:28,920 That's a good one. Yeah. 541 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,160 OK, So what? What kind of strategies or how 542 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,520 are you? How do you deal with these FKTS? 543 00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,880 Are you headphones or what are you? 544 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,840 What are you doing when there's no one around too? 545 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,520 So it's so I just basically listen to podcasts. 546 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:46,440 I can't, I don't know what it is. 547 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:47,680 I can't. I love music. 548 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,600 I like, you know, I see tons of concerts and stuff, but I like 549 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,560 if I just can't listen to music because I I almost get like 550 00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:57,760 annoyed with stuff really easily. 551 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,800 It's it's hard to explain, but I'm like, I don't want to listen 552 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,640 to this and I have to save battery power. 553 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,000 I have like a little tiny MP3 player from like 1995 or I. 554 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,040 Don't. Know 2005 or something? 555 00:28:09,360 --> 00:28:11,960 Yep, I have one in in middle school, yeah. 556 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,240 Yeah. So I can't even like choose what 557 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,800 I I can just do like shuffle. I can't even like choose what I 558 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,880 listen to, so I just listen to podcasts and they're all, yeah, 559 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,720 they're all basically like FKT or ultra running podcasts cuz I 560 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,720 can, it helps me like I'm like, there are other humans out there 561 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,360 that are experiencing the same things I am and I feel a little 562 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,360 more connected, I guess. That's funny. 563 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,000 That's that's an interesting style. 564 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,480 I mean, so I'm wondering this, do you get to the end and you 565 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,720 have like a bunch of half listen to podcasts, like one will annoy 566 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,000 you. You'll skip it. 567 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,640 You can't find it again. So I I, I have, I download so 568 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,760 many. I had like 130 gigabytes of 569 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,640 podcast downloaded, which is I don't know, I could I could 570 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,240 probably through height the entire AT and not listen to all 571 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,240 of them. Yeah, probably out and back. 572 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,800 That's so many podcasts. Yeah, but yeah, so yeah, I, I 573 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,680 don't know, I, I like, will skip one if I'm not, if I'm not doing 574 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,720 it or I'm not feeling it. But I mean, usually if they're, 575 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:09,640 I mean, they're, I listen to like the FKT podcast. 576 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,560 But funny, funny story. Speaking of sleep deprivation 577 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,160 and podcasts, I was listening to one of yours. 578 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,520 It was one of your podcasts when you were getting ready for the 579 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,720 AT OK self supported. You were talking about like top 580 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,720 five sleep deprivation experiences. 581 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,200 Yeah. And so and I so I'm like, Oh 582 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:30,760 yeah. Like I love these because I can 583 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,560 relate and it makes me like think. 584 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,160 And so you were talking about the trees look like witches 585 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:37,640 hats, right? Yeah, Yep. 586 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,440 And so I was like, Oh yeah, that was like in the back of my 587 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:41,720 brain. And I'm like, whatever. 588 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:46,840 So on the Bent Mackay trail, I don't know, day three or 4, I 589 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,520 was coming down, there's like a waterfall area and I was coming 590 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,360 down off the waterfall. And so I'm like, it's day 4. 591 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,440 I'm like pretty sleep deprived. I'm like, it's the end of the 592 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:56,680 day. And I started to get tired 593 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,600 around like 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon And I'm walking down 594 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,160 and I, I see like 3 people. There's two adults and like a 595 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:03,920 little kid. And I'm like, that's so weird. 596 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,320 I was like, that guy is wearing a witch's hat. 597 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,720 And I'm like, I was like, I, I guess I'm starting to see stuff. 598 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,760 I was like, that's crazy. And so I'm like, well, whatever 599 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,080 you know, this is, this will be fun because talking to people is 600 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,520 always so challenging when you're like like zoned out. 601 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,640 So I walk up and the dude is that wearing a witch's hat. 602 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,520 He had like a, or maybe a wizard hat, I don't know. 603 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,040 I didn't ask which it was, but it was like a 2 foot tall 604 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:30,920 witch's hat with lightning bolt on it. 605 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,640 I was just like. That is real life, yeah. 606 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:35,960 You weren't hallucinating. You weren't pushing hard. 607 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,080 I know I was like, that was a little little sad, but that 608 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,640 actually was a real thing. And I I like took a picture from 609 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,680 like 200 yards away. I tend to do that when I'm 610 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,800 hallucinating to like look back after the fact and be like was 611 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,400 this real or was this not so? Yeah, that is such a funny, that 612 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,360 was real story. Yeah. 613 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:54,920 It's kind of disappointing, actually. 614 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,960 I was a little upset. I was like, I was like, I wanted 615 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,080 to know the story, but I was like, I'm not. 616 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,240 I'm just going to keep going at this. 617 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,960 Point Yeah, let's stay on this tangent for a second. 618 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,000 What other good hallucinations have you had through the years 619 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,520 other than the faces and the bark and stuff? 620 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,320 Have you have you seen witches? What's What's your top five? 621 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:17,000 South, another good one was so the superior hiking trail. 622 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,280 I was just like, it's hard to describe. 623 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,440 There's been a few times. So the Pennsylvania Appalachian 624 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,160 Trail. It's it's not like 625 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,560 hallucinations, but it's like when I'm deep in the FKT and 626 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,800 like stuff is getting strange. I start getting these like 627 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,240 feelings of like elation and euphoria and it almost makes me 628 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,560 scared because I like start to, I'm able to like run and like 629 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,160 energy comes out of nowhere. But so that was happening on the 630 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,040 Superior hiking trail and I was just like cruising along feeling 631 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,080 really good. And I was seeing like, you know, 632 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,440 folk chalets, like in the woods, like, like, you know, like Swiss 633 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:55,000 chalets with like all the intricate artwork, like 634 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,320 intricate carvings and stuff. And I had like this really 635 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:02,240 distinct feeling that I was, I like, I was so sleep deprived 636 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,600 that I kept thinking like, oh, no, I'm forgetting the person 637 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:07,160 that I'm hiking with, like where are they? 638 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,640 I like, I had this feeling that I was with somebody and I kept 639 00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,120 like losing them. And so it wasn't like a, a 640 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,200 visual hallucination. It was more of like an emotional 641 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,320 hallucination. And I was like, I like, I felt 642 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,840 like I had this like companion that I was like cruising along 643 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,560 with. Yeah, I've had, I've had a 644 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:27,280 similar one where it feels like I'm like supposed to do a task 645 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:29,800 or like I'm on my way to do something and I can't quite 646 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,520 remember what it is. And yeah, it's some type of 647 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,400 hallucination. I guess Emotional 1 is a good 648 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,400 way to put it, 'cause it's like, I know for a fact I'm on my way 649 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,160 to like, I don't know, fix something or be a handyman, but 650 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,800 it's like I just can't quite remember what I'm supposed to be 651 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,280 doing once I get there and I'm just moving on the trail. 652 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,440 It's the weirdest thing. Exactly like it's like your 653 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,000 brain is trying to like process something or I don't even know. 654 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,520 It's it's doing crazy stuff behind. 655 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,640 The scenes, it's like we can't possibly be trying to do a 300 656 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:01,880 mile trail in like 5 1/2 days. We must be on our way to do 657 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:03,800 something way more logical than this. 658 00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:05,320 So it's just trying to fill that up. 659 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,120 Exactly. Like you can't just be walking, 660 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,800 you got to be doing something. Yeah, there's got to be a reason 661 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,160 to this. Come on, we have cars. 662 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,680 Yeah, but so on that, so at the very end of the Superior hiding 663 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,880 trail, you, you, you hop out onto a road and then you go back 664 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,720 into the woods and it's so you have to hike into the woods for 665 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,760 like 3 miles and then you hit the Wisconsin border and then 666 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,720 you have to come back out to the trailhead. 667 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:32,400 So I popped into the, so I went past the, the trailhead, went 668 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:37,040 into the woods and I, my brain, I was like seeing all sorts of 669 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,680 stuff and I saw, I was convinced it was a Mylar balloon. 670 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,640 So you know, like a big Mylar balloon floating, so not like on 671 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,840 the ground. And it was a great white shark. 672 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,760 So it was, it was off like life-size great, great white 673 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:50,840 shark. And the only thing I can think 674 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,720 of is that I saw like there's a bunch of ferns in that area. 675 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,840 And maybe my brain saw the ferns and saw like said, like those 676 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:00,840 are gills on a shark or something crazy. 677 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,640 Yeah, maybe. Yeah. 678 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,360 Or from prehistoric times, like the origin of sharks. 679 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:08,480 Who knows? Yeah. 680 00:34:08,600 --> 00:34:12,440 Could be, yeah. Balloons are so fun to no, I 681 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,880 don't know if you've found many just in the middle of nowhere. 682 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,600 It just feels like a big, yeah, these things do come down 683 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:20,520 somewhere. It's it feels like a real treat. 684 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,800 It was actually funny when I I just unpacked my my bent makai 685 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,960 bag and I have like a bottom pocket and I was like pulling 686 00:34:26,960 --> 00:34:28,880 all the stuff out and I was like, oh, I forgot I picked up 687 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:30,719 this Mylar balloon in the middle of the forest. 688 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,600 So I tossed it. Yeah, you should get like extra 689 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,360 points for balloons like -5 minutes or something. 690 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,360 Yeah. So, OK, so back, back to the bet 691 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,120 in Mackay. So one hour the first night 692 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,800 looks like you up it to three hours, is it? 693 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,560 What is kind of your sleep strategy through these 5:00-ish 694 00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:50,920 day FKTS? Because you seem to be to be 695 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:51,800 nailing it. Yeah. 696 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:55,120 So the middle days I try to get 3 hours and then I'll like add 697 00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:57,680 or subtract depending on what's going on. 698 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,920 The second, the second night was really not good sleep on my hips 699 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,720 were killing me and I kept my pad was like sort of on a slant 700 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,000 my sleeping pad. So I just kept sliding down off 701 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,400 the pad and I eventually I was like 300 yards short of a 702 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,720 parking lot area. And I, I always try to avoid 703 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,960 like hanging out, you know, I don't want to sleep in a parking 704 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,880 lot #1 I don't want to get like run over in the middle of the 705 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,880 night or something. Like just messed with like 706 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,240 people coming and seeing me. But after like an hour, I was 707 00:35:26,240 --> 00:35:28,000 like, I'm just going to go sleep in that parking lot. 708 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,360 So, and when I say parking lot, it's like 30 miles from the 709 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,560 nearest paved Rd. So it's nothing around. 710 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,120 So I picked up I, I have a like little bug bitty that I sewed. 711 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,440 So I had everything inside the bug bitty. 712 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,000 I just picked it up, walked 300 yards with it, put it on the 713 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,280 ground and then crawled in and fell back asleep. 714 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,080 It is the saddest thing when you have to move the campsite. 715 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:53,840 It's tough. I was like, I'd like put my 716 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,720 shoes on and I didn't put socks on and my blisters are getting 717 00:35:56,720 --> 00:35:58,880 torn up and I'm just like, this is miserable. 718 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,960 And, and, and you know, I'm like, cool, I have another hour 719 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,680 and 40 minutes before I have to get up. 720 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,520 It's like whatever. Yeah, the, the weighing the 721 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,920 decision like this is going to suck versus I want a good couple 722 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,560 hours more of sleep. And then just like moving down 723 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,120 the trail trying to like just hold all your stuff. 724 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,760 It's it's probably the lowest moment you can have on the trail 725 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,560 where it's like campsite choice was was poor. 726 00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,520 Now I'm just dealing with the consequences. 727 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,200 Things are awful. Exactly. 728 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,640 And I'm like hoping that I'd not I didn't like drop something in 729 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,280 the in the campsite and I like will like realize later. 730 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,600 But yeah, I mean, it was, it worked out, it was fine. 731 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,480 Yeah. And so 3 hours usually, do you 732 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,200 do that through the end of the trail and then maybe a final 733 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:41,680 push? Is that usually the status? 734 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:46,320 Yeah, so I did three, I did 3 hours, 3 hours and then the 735 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:51,720 second to last night I did 2 1/2 hours because the so the second 736 00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:54,640 night or I'm sorry, the yeah, the the I'm sorry. 737 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,680 The third night into the 4th morning, I don't know, they all 738 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:01,640 blend together, but one in the mornings I went to charge my 739 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:08,000 phone and I love this story. Yeah, I had AI had a 20,000 740 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,520 Milliamp. So on the on the Panhote trail, 741 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:12,360 I bought it. I was like trying to go super 742 00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:15,200 light and I was being an idiot and I brought a 10,000 Milliamp 743 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,240 battery bank and I'm like, I'm not going to touch my phone. 744 00:37:17,240 --> 00:37:18,400 I'm not going to mess with anything. 745 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,120 I'm going to see how like little battery I can use. 746 00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:24,160 And it did not work out. I I ended up needing to charge 747 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,480 my phone like in the last like 60 miles. 748 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:30,800 So this time I was like, I want, I want to listen to podcasts. 749 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,600 I don't want to listen to my own thoughts like that is just 750 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:35,880 absolute torture. So I was like, I'm going to 751 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:40,240 bring a 20,000 million battery. And so I my like this is a bunch 752 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,960 of numbers and annoying stuff, but the battery bank. 753 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:45,680 Yeah. Yeah, so the battery bank was at 754 00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,840 40%. It's a 20,000 battery, so it 755 00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,560 should charge my phone fully like at least twice more. 756 00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:56,520 My phone went from 30% to 50% and then the battery bank went 757 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:00,080 from 40 to 0. And so I was like, that is not 758 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,880 good. I still have, you know, 100 and 759 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:05,360 30 miles left to go. You got to stop buying your 760 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:09,240 stuff off TikTok. Seriously, So I, I told my wife 761 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,400 I was like, hey, if you ever get a text from me because I have AI 762 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,760 have a Garmin in reach and I've got three pre preloaded 763 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,040 messages. And so 1 is like I'm safe. 764 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,160 Number 2 is I'm a camp and #3 is I'm, I'm at the parking spot 765 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,880 heading into the woods just for normal backpacking. 766 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,960 I was like, if you ever get the message that I'm at the parking 767 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,920 spot and heading into the woods, that means my phone is dead 768 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,040 until you're not going to hear from me until I finish the trail 769 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:35,640 and so. It's your safe word, yeah. 770 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:37,680 I was like, I was like I got my watch. 771 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,880 All I need is my watch to get. As long as my watch can last 772 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,080 till the end, I'll be fine. So. 773 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,920 Yeah. And then so let's do this story 774 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,600 on. So you'd stop and charge for a 775 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,400 little bit and then you, just like me, like to do everything 776 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,760 unsupported or self supported. So yeah. 777 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,440 And that sets the stage. I'd love to hear this story 778 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:58,240 about stopping to charge for a bit. 779 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,000 Yeah. So there's a campground. 780 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,640 It's a national, I think it's a National Forest campground 781 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,400 called Thunder Rock. And so it's like super rustic, 782 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,080 but there's like a bathroom there. 783 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,800 I actually stopped there to fill water at like the spigot last 784 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:13,280 year. So I knew it existed. 785 00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,440 And I was like, I was like, you know what, I'll charge my phone 786 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,920 for 30 minutes. It's I was like, it'll just 787 00:39:19,240 --> 00:39:21,320 relieve a little stress. I was like, I hate to stop for 788 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:22,600 30 minutes. It's such a waste. 789 00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,560 You know, I could be a mile and a half down the trail, but 790 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,240 whatever. So I I stopped to charge and I 791 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,600 unplugged my stuff in and I'm sitting there and this guy 792 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,560 walked over and he's like, hey, he's like, what are you doing? 793 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,080 And I was like, I'm hiking this trail and he's like, what trail? 794 00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,360 And I'm like, oh, the Benton Mackay goes right through this 795 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:39,880 campground. He's like, what, where does it 796 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,720 come from? And I was like the Smokies. 797 00:39:41,720 --> 00:39:44,880 He's like, you mean like in like North Carolina? 798 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,080 And I was like, yeah, he's like, well, how far is that? 799 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,600 And I was like, I think it's like 200 miles. 800 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:52,640 And he's like, how long did that take you? 801 00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:56,120 And I was like, I like, I don't, I don't even know. 802 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,280 Three days. And he was just like, so 803 00:39:58,280 --> 00:39:59,880 confused. And he's like, where are you 804 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:01,480 going? And I'm like, I have to, I'm 805 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,720 going to finish the trail. And he's like, all right. 806 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,680 So he goes into the bathroom and comes out and he's like, you got 807 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:08,560 to come over and tell my wife the story. 808 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,440 And this is. Not what you want to have happen 809 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:15,040 when you're doing an FKT. I'm just like, I can't like I 810 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:17,600 love talking with people. I love like interacting, but 811 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:20,360 it's, it's really, I mean, you know, it's, it's difficult to 812 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,800 like have conversations and think like linear thoughts. 813 00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,920 And like, your main job is to get things charged so you can 814 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,000 keep going. Now you're getting these side 815 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,240 quests on a tired brain, which you're like really easy to throw 816 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:34,360 things off. And I was, I was actually 817 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,320 planning on sleeping. I was like, you know what, I'll 818 00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,960 take a 15 minute nap and I'll set my watch and I, and then he 819 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:41,760 came over and started talking to me and I'm like, whatever. 820 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,920 I was like, worse. I was like, I'm not going to 821 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,240 sleep. So his, his wife, he's like, you 822 00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:48,400 got to tell my wife. He's like, she's, she's going to 823 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,480 love this story. I'm like, I was like, I'll see. 824 00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,360 And I was like, I'm not going to walk over there. 825 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,080 So then she walks over and like, no judgement, but she's been, 826 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,920 they've been like clearly having a good time and you know, having 827 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:00,800 a few cocktails at the campground and it's like good 828 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,520 for them. But she was like, she like got 829 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,000 her the whole thing. She's like, you got to come 830 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,760 over. You got to, you got to, she's 831 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,000 like, I'll make you, I'll make you some food. 832 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,280 And I'm like. Right now, right now, your brain 833 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,880 is like, do I explain unsupported rules or do I just 834 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,840 find a way out of this? I'm like trying, I'm like, I'm 835 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,800 cannot get into like unsupported or self supported versus 836 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,560 supported. I was like, this is the nuance 837 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,720 would not like go over well with her. 838 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:27,600 And so I was like, everything's in my bag. 839 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,000 I got all my food, I'm all set. And she's like, you don't have a 840 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,920 home cooked meal in there. And I was like, I know I would 841 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:35,000 love one. I was like, I really is like so 842 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,720 kind to you. I was like, that's really nice. 843 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:38,560 And she's like, well, how far are you going? 844 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:40,920 And I'm like, I'm going like another 100 miles. 845 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:42,800 And she's like, well, you're not going to get there by dark. 846 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:44,880 And I'm like, Nope, I'm definitely not going to get 847 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,200 there by dark. And she's like, well, what are 848 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:48,760 you going to do? And I'm like, I have a headlamp. 849 00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,360 I'm going to just keep walking. She's like, you can't do that. 850 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:53,520 And I was like, I was like, I'll be fine. 851 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,400 And so eventually she's just like shook her head. 852 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,200 She's like, she's like, you should come over. 853 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,880 We got plenty of food. You just like ruin their 854 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,240 evening. Like what? 855 00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:04,840 Why is this guy not want to hang out with? 856 00:42:05,240 --> 00:42:08,240 Us she she was so bummed out. She was just like, I don't know, 857 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,520 but yeah. And then I so I charged my 858 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,440 phone, threw everything back in my bag and I head out and the 859 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,000 guy, I think they must have been like camp campground hosts 860 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:18,640 because he was in like golf cart with his buddy and his buddy 861 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,440 yelled he's like, he's like, hey, Bob, he's like, good luck. 862 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,480 Hope you get the record. I was like thanks. 863 00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,920 Isn't it such a relief? I mean, interactions are great. 864 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,080 Sometimes it can empower you, give you energy. 865 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,400 But ones like this where you're like stressing, trying to get 866 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,320 like something charged, maybe take a nap when you walk back 867 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,560 into the woods, can't you just feel the stress like releasing 868 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,160 like your back? It, it, the part of it also is 869 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,640 that like when you, when I'm doing, like when I'm trying to 870 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,280 focus on that when you're so sleep deprived, like one of the 871 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,440 main side effects I guess is like my short term memory 872 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,760 completely disappears. So if like, I, if I don't keep 873 00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:55,680 track of something, I'll be like totally forget that I'm doing. 874 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,240 I'm like trying to keep track so, so hard that I'm like, I, I 875 00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:01,560 cannot leave my phone. I cannot, like I have stuff 876 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,000 charging. I need to remember that. 877 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:04,760 I need to remember this other stuff that I have to do. 878 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:06,720 Like I need water before this thing. 879 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,520 But then, yeah, once I went back into the woods, I was just like, 880 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:12,480 like I felt a little guilty that I was like, was I too rude to 881 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,120 her? Like maybe I should have like 882 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,320 been a little nicer. But I was like, I don't know. 883 00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,120 I just cruised on. I was like, I I feel so much 884 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:21,920 better now. And I think something that 885 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:26,560 people won't get is maybe like when you're in an FKT, you don't 886 00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,840 really pack the comforts that you get when you're backpacking. 887 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:33,240 Like your comfort is just knowing what's in every pocket 888 00:43:33,240 --> 00:43:36,160 that you have everything that you're just set like you have 889 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,080 the food, you're you're good to go unsupported is a beautiful 890 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,640 thing because it like eliminates a lot of those things. 891 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,000 And then you get in like a small talk conversation, trying to 892 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,400 figure out and keep track of where everything is. 893 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,320 It's just overwhelming. Like mentally you've just you've 894 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,920 just lost your flow. And part of it is also like, you 895 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:58,480 know, Joe McConaughey, he he got into that situation on the Long 896 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,480 Trail where he was just like having a conversation with 897 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,240 somebody, accidentally took some water and. 898 00:44:03,240 --> 00:44:06,040 Oh yeah, yeah. And so like he like he totally 899 00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,760 space out for a second and then I'm like, I, I have to make sure 900 00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,520 that I do not take anything from this like woman, even though 901 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,520 she's like super nice. And I'm like, so yeah, I'm like 902 00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:18,320 trying to like I and also like I relooked up the rules because I 903 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,560 was like, I can definitely charge my phone unsupported, 904 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:22,280 right? So I like had to get, I went 905 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,960 back into the FTT website and it explicitly says like you are 906 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:26,240 allowed to charge a public outlets. 907 00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:29,120 And I'm like, OK, I'm like, wow. So. 908 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:31,720 OK. And then so let's jump into the 909 00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:34,280 the final push here. So you've survived keeping it 910 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:38,080 unsupported, but I mean it did feel touch and go there for a 911 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,320 bit and then you're back in the woods and you're pushing through 912 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,160 the final 90 miles. What's kind of your strategy in 913 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,800 the final push? So final push I am, I was trying 914 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,960 to decide if I wanted to. So I, I, I do basically the same 915 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,040 thing as like night one. I was like, do I want to do a 916 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,760 one hour nap? Do I want to do 230 minute naps? 917 00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,280 Like what, what do I want to do? And so I didn't really have a 918 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,880 strategy and I was ahead of the like records. 919 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,280 So it's like, how much do I want to destroy myself just to like 920 00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,960 get a couple extra hours? Like if I'm chasing it, chasing 921 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:12,960 a record, then I'm like, sure, it's worth it. 922 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,240 But it's like, do I really want to just like completely have 923 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:19,720 like, I don't know, destroy my brain in the process? 924 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:23,440 So I decided, I don't even know if I made a conscious decision 925 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,320 because I can't thinking back, I don't know how it happened, but 926 00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:28,720 I just decided to just walk as much as I could. 927 00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:35,200 And so I eventually lie down for 10 minutes at 11:00 PM, like 928 00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:38,000 center of the trail. And I was, I treated myself. 929 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,920 I actually took my pack off and put it in the middle of the 930 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:41,320 trail and lied on top of the pack. 931 00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,360 That's so good. I can just feel the comfort 932 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,640 knowing how it was. It was just like nice and like 933 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:53,280 lumpy underneath me and yeah, but so my, but my knee, my knee, 934 00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:55,920 like something was funky. So I slept for 10 minutes and 935 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,040 then got up and started moving again and then cruised through 936 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:01,840 the night. I was doing my thing. 937 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,600 And then I noticed that I was like, so I have my watch, like 938 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,560 beeps every mile. It's like a double edged sword. 939 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,800 My stuff. Yeah, that is like, it's like, 940 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:14,720 it's, it's crazy, but I could tell. 941 00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:17,840 Like it was beeping and I was like 27 minute miles, 26 minute 942 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,320 miles, 20 minute miles. And I'm like all over the trail, 943 00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,800 like stumbling and kicking rocks. 944 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,680 And my toes, both my big toes were like look like cadaver 945 00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:29,240 toes. They're like purple and like, 946 00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,080 yeah. So I was like. 947 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,200 East Coast baby. Seriously. 948 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:35,240 Oh my gosh. So I was like, you know what I 949 00:46:35,240 --> 00:46:36,680 need? I was like, I'm probably going 950 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,560 to make up more time if I lie down for 1/2 an hour and sleep. 951 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:44,760 And so I decided I actually accidentally went past a spring 952 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:46,560 too. And so I didn't, I don't go like 953 00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:48,880 another 6 miles before I had water and I was, so I was out of 954 00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,360 water. And so eventually I was like, it 955 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,040 was, I don't know, three in the morning or something. 956 00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,040 And I'm like, I, I'll set a 30 minute timer or I'd set a 20 957 00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,640 minute timer. And so I don't even do alarms at 958 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,320 that point because my brain can't do like the math of time. 959 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,280 I'm with you. So you get to a point when you 960 00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:06,920 just do timers because so it says exactly what you get right 961 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:08,280 there. You don't got to do time. 962 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,040 Yeah, exactly. So I just set a 20 minute timer 963 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,440 and then I, it was funny. So I set the 20 minute timer. 964 00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:17,440 I woke up 20 minutes later and I was like, I'm doing a 10 minute 965 00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:18,840 timer. I was like, I'm going to sneeze 966 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:20,800 for 10. And so I set the 10 minute timer 967 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,080 and I don't even know what came over me, but the 10 minute timer 968 00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,800 went off and I just like woke up, lied there for a second and 969 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:32,000 then just like screamed into the black void because I like didn't 970 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:33,560 have my head up head lamp on or anything. 971 00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:38,280 And I was just like yelled out and I was like, all right, time 972 00:47:38,280 --> 00:47:42,520 to go and just stood up and got my water at the spring and then 973 00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,200 kept moving and. Then you were good the rest of 974 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,160 the trail on that tenant. There, Yeah. 975 00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,760 Yeah. So like one of my superpowers, I 976 00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:53,320 guess is that once, once dawn hits and like the sun rises, my 977 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:57,160 brain just like, turns back on. And so I, I know that like, as 978 00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,520 soon as I make it, if I can make it to Daybreak and like the 979 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,640 sunrise, if I just like, stare at the sun, it like, wakes up my 980 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,000 circadian rhythm. I don't know what the deal is. 981 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,360 OK, But as soon as the sun came up, I like felt, you know, 982 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:11,440 everything was reset and I was, I was wide awake. 983 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,960 So I knew like at 3:00 I was like, I, I have 3 hours, I can 984 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,560 make it 3 hours until, until the sun comes up and then I'll be 985 00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:18,640 good to go. Yeah. 986 00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:22,240 And then as you're kind of going through the final stretch, are 987 00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:26,280 you thinking like hitting that point where it ended last year 988 00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:27,880 too? Are you like, if I get through 989 00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,200 this, I'm going to be good? Is this in your head at all that 990 00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,360 attempts have ended this close? No. 991 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:36,240 Well, so I passed the point that it was crazy. 992 00:48:36,240 --> 00:48:40,120 I was so far ahead of my time from the previous year that I 993 00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,000 hit the point. So the last year when I quit, I 994 00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:46,120 hit, I quit exactly 5 days and 240 miles. 995 00:48:46,240 --> 00:48:49,840 I was like 8 or 9 hours ahead of the previous year. 996 00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:52,480 Yeah, it was kind of wild. I had no idea why I was so much 997 00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:56,120 faster this year, partly because it was more daylight, but I, I 998 00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:58,600 was just moving a lot better, more, more efficient. 999 00:48:58,720 --> 00:49:02,680 And so I passed that point and I really, I really didn't think 1000 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:04,400 about it. I was going to like take a 1001 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:05,760 picture or something. And I was like, you know what, 1002 00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,160 I'm not even going to acknowledge this. 1003 00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,920 I'm just going to keep moving and just get on the trail. 1004 00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,760 And then once I got within like 10 miles, I was like, I can 1005 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,040 basically crawl from here to the end. 1006 00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,800 So at like 10 miles to Springer, I was like, I, I will accept 1007 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,040 that I finish, but it's also that last 10. 1008 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,680 Miles, it gets hard, yeah. I was, I was going to say 1009 00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,320 because like 10 miles is like, you know, that's super easy when 1010 00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:30,160 you've got 200 to go. The last 10 miles you're like, 1011 00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:33,600 this is still like many hours. Hiking left, it's like 1012 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,640 frustrating to your body. You're like, we have to keep 1013 00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,680 doing this for three more hours, like we've already got it in the 1014 00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:41,200 bag. This is the worst part. 1015 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,960 And, and it's like, yeah, like I've already done 280 miles. 1016 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,800 Like how bad can 10 miles be? And then you're just like, this 1017 00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,040 is so slow. I I'm like so bored. 1018 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:51,800 I would need to get need to get this over with. 1019 00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,840 It's like maximum boredom. I'm sure like every podcast 1020 00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,160 wasn't interesting anymore. It's just. 1021 00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,480 I I do wouldn't I couldn't even listen to any podcasts anymore. 1022 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:02,000 I was, my brain was like totally fried. 1023 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,080 I was just like, it's time to just like think about, I don't 1024 00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:06,840 know, just enjoy the hallucinations. 1025 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,000 Date. I love daytime hallucinations. 1026 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,320 I like bring them on nighttime ones. 1027 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:12,560 I'm like, I don't want to deal with that. 1028 00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:15,680 I don't, yeah. And so you finish and is this, I 1029 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:19,360 mean, you said this was by far the hardest FKT yet. 1030 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:22,120 So yeah. What are you feeling at the 1031 00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:23,680 finish? Are you like, relieved that you 1032 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:27,000 finally did it or you just stoked because you beat all the 1033 00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:30,720 FKTS all the times? I mean at least the men 1034 00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:33,520 supported and self supported as well. 1035 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:35,080 So yeah. How are you feeling at the end? 1036 00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:39,920 It's such a weird feeling because it's so so I actually I 1037 00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,080 recorded this one. I mean like a video, like a 1038 00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,200 YouTube video. Or I was gonna bring that up. 1039 00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:46,240 That might be why you lost some battery power. 1040 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,080 Yeah. And so it was funny because I 1041 00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:53,080 like showed my wife because she's like she she knows what I 1042 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,000 do, but she's never like seen the finish. 1043 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,120 But she's like, that's so anticlimactic. 1044 00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:58,360 She's like, there's nobody there. 1045 00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,920 There's like you just by yourself and then you finish and 1046 00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:02,920 then it's over. And I was like, yeah, I was 1047 00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,120 like, but it's it's about it's like so cliche, but it's like 1048 00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,280 about the journey. It's about like the planning. 1049 00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:12,040 It's about like the like execution like once, once you 1050 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:14,840 finish, you're like I cool, like let's move on to the next one. 1051 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,960 If you finished into like an Olympic Stadium, do you think 1052 00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:20,320 you'd still be like, it's about the journey it's about? 1053 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:22,200 I wouldn't like that. I don't. 1054 00:51:22,240 --> 00:51:25,920 Know I think it's yeah, it's just such a different sport like 1055 00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:29,480 you other neither of us have done supported so we don't 1056 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,120 really know. But like you suffer alone, you 1057 00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:35,000 do this alone and you finish alone and it's like it would 1058 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,840 change dramatically if right at the end you had a big crowd 1059 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:40,800 cheering. You had to like stand on a 1060 00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:44,560 podium or something. Exactly, like I don't know, it 1061 00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:48,680 feels more fitting to to just like finish alone because I 1062 00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,240 don't know, it's just you're just there with you're there by 1063 00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:52,720 yourself and you're there with your own. 1064 00:51:52,720 --> 00:51:55,400 Like, I don't know. And I'm also always so tired 1065 00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:57,640 that I don't really want to like talking to people is really 1066 00:51:57,640 --> 00:52:00,320 challenging. I would like always like warn 1067 00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:02,360 that the shuttle drivers when they pick me up, I'm like, I'm 1068 00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:04,800 going to be like talking gibberish and it I'm going to 1069 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,000 like stop mid sentence. So like, I'm cool, but just be 1070 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:09,800 aware. That is funny that you finally 1071 00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,760 got to show what it's like at the end to get an outside 1072 00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:14,320 perspective. I haven't really thought about 1073 00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,080 that, but I guess in terms of people being interested and 1074 00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:22,120 following along and stuff, the end is not what you'd expect for 1075 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:24,640 people being interested in success. 1076 00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,760 It's like, yeah, OK, it's over. Yeah, it's like, all right, 1077 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,080 there's the sign. All right, let me wander down. 1078 00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,800 And it's always so funny when you like, I was hiking down from 1079 00:52:33,240 --> 00:52:36,000 from Springer and you're like passing people and they're like 1080 00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:38,080 saying like, hey, like enjoy your hike. 1081 00:52:38,240 --> 00:52:40,600 You're like I Yeah, I just. Enjoyed that. 1082 00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,840 Yeah, I did it. It's over maximum enjoyment. 1083 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:49,040 OK I have a a few other topics. I'm curious on a couple that are 1084 00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,800 quick. So we both have done a lot of 1085 00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,720 FKTS in glasses but I'm sure a lot of people have questions. 1086 00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:57,800 Does that present challenges for you? 1087 00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:01,160 It not really. I actually, I got fitted for 1088 00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:06,080 contacts to like see if I would like them and I did not say I 1089 00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,760 don't like them in my eyes, but I mean they fog up. 1090 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:11,520 They're kind of a pain. Especially down there where it's 1091 00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,720 like humid. I mean, it's, it's always like 1092 00:53:13,720 --> 00:53:17,280 smudged and smeared and I don't know, like it's tough to get 1093 00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,480 them clean. Yeah, it is. 1094 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,720 But you get, you get used to it. I did, yeah. 1095 00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:23,640 Yeah. I mean, it's it's just part of 1096 00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,400 the the thing. Yeah, OK. 1097 00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:27,800 And then so we talked about sleep. 1098 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:31,040 What is your food strategy? What do you eat out there? 1099 00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,960 People are dying to know. So food strategy is I do half 1100 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,960 solid food and then half is liquid nutrition. 1101 00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:43,240 So my solid food is I do 1 backpacking meal and it's cold 1102 00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:47,160 soaked and I actually like shook it and like showed my wife like 1103 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:48,360 in the video, like the video I took. 1104 00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:50,800 I like shook it and I'm like, I get to treat myself with this 1105 00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:54,480 biscuits and gravity at the top of the hill. $17.00 down the 1106 00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:56,120 Hatch cold. Yeah. 1107 00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:57,920 And so I was like, I get to treat myself with this. 1108 00:53:57,920 --> 00:54:00,320 She's like, are you seriously like looking forward to that? 1109 00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,120 She's like, is that like? And I'm like, yeah, I don't 1110 00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,080 know. And so I do a backpacking meal. 1111 00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:10,760 I do M&M's, cookies, chips, peanuts, so solid regular food 1112 00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:12,880 that's like 2200 calories. And I don't. 1113 00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,480 Like all the stuff you all the stuff you don't let your kids 1114 00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:17,840 eat. Well, they, the kids absolutely. 1115 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,600 Like they're like, oh, dad's going on a backpacking trip 1116 00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:24,080 because I like, you know, I, I don't, I'll fill up my, my bags 1117 00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:25,840 and then I have like all the leftover bags and they're like 1118 00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,120 Cheetos. Like they love it. 1119 00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:29,840 They just like Cheetos and Chips Ahoy. 1120 00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,560 They think backpacking is where you go to like eat really bad 1121 00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:35,960 and just escape having to eat vegetables. 1122 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:38,440 Seriously, they're just like this is awesome. 1123 00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,600 Like sodium and sugar. Like give it to me. 1124 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,000 They're going to be like when can we backpack? 1125 00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,600 This sounds awesome. Yeah, they or they want to come 1126 00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:46,280 with me. They're. 1127 00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:49,560 Yeah. But so, yeah, half is solid food 1128 00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,760 and then the other half is maltodextrin. 1129 00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:54,360 I buy. This is another crazy thing that 1130 00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,760 I do. I buy 50 LB bags of maltodextrin 1131 00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:58,960 and I go through it like every two years. 1132 00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,520 Wow, yeah, you got to brush your teeth with that stuff too. 1133 00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,240 Oh my gosh, yeah. Actually I think yeah. 1134 00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:07,080 So I carry. That's a good tip as I have my 1135 00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:11,080 my toothbrush in my front of my pack because makes your teeth 1136 00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:14,600 like grow fur. Yeah, everything does. 1137 00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:17,680 And brushing your teeth is like a free reset of your body. 1138 00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:20,640 Like you feel you're in no way clean, but it feels like you're 1139 00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:22,440 a little clean when you brush your teeth. 1140 00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,680 So the two things that I love is #1 brushing my teeth, it like 1141 00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:27,840 wakes you up. And then the other thing is I I 1142 00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:30,840 look forward to putting my sunblock on every day because it 1143 00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:34,280 just smells a little different and it like it's like a treat. 1144 00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:38,720 Cold soaked meals, sunblock and brushing your teeth. 1145 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,360 Man, don't tell the kids this part of it, Yeah. 1146 00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,120 Yeah. So the so I do 2200 calories 1147 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:48,360 solid three 2200 and it's maltodextrin and then like a 1148 00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:52,680 ratio with multi dextrin fructose and then either I will 1149 00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:56,240 add like Gatorade powder or different electrolyte powders. 1150 00:55:56,240 --> 00:56:00,000 And then I also do one bag of Roctane, which I really like 1151 00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,200 that like the goo Roctane stuff. Yeah. 1152 00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,880 Yeah, so that's my. Are you mixing on the go like 1153 00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:10,640 when you get to a source pour? Like do you have a scoop? 1154 00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,280 Are they individually bagged up? How do you navigate? 1155 00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,520 Powder everything is individually bagged. 1156 00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:19,000 It kind of pains me because I've like do my best to minimize 1157 00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,440 waste and like normal life. Yeah. 1158 00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,200 And this is like, I just like, hate going to the grocery store 1159 00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,720 and buying like Ziploc bags and filling it with my food and then 1160 00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:29,720 wasting it all. But I figured I'd do it. 1161 00:56:29,720 --> 00:56:32,560 Single use, yeah, yeah, yeah, OK. 1162 00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:36,840 And so yeah, yeah. So mix it on the go and then is 1163 00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:39,680 all your food like pre portioned out by day? 1164 00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:41,720 How do you stay organized? Yeah. 1165 00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:44,720 Yeah, so again, listening to podcasts and gleaning 1166 00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:48,640 information, I, so I used to use gallon Ziploc bags and I heard 1167 00:56:48,640 --> 00:56:52,280 you say one time you're like, I use the, the, like the produce 1168 00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:56,040 bags at the supermarket. It's like the, the like bulk 1169 00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:57,640 bags. And I was like, that's 1170 00:56:57,640 --> 00:56:59,360 brilliant. They're like they're lighter, 1171 00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,640 they pack down smaller. So I go and when I pick up my 1172 00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:05,160 food I grab like 6 bulk bulk bags and. 1173 00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:07,840 Yeah, they're free too. So you just walk out with a 1174 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,440 pocket full of poor plastic bags. 1175 00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,400 Yeah, it was this hack because sometimes there's like holes in 1176 00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,920 them, so they like push down really well too. 1177 00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:17,320 So they're. Exactly. 1178 00:57:17,320 --> 00:57:18,400 You can squeeze all the air out of them. 1179 00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:19,560 I was like, this is so brilliant. 1180 00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:21,200 This is so much easier than Ziploc bags. 1181 00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:23,760 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, life hack for anyone 1182 00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:25,240 out there. When they organize their food, 1183 00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:28,480 just get the the produce bags that fall apart in a stiff wind. 1184 00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:29,920 Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 1185 00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,360 And So what, what's next for you? 1186 00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,760 You got the one that's been eating at you for I guess that'd 1187 00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:38,840 be like 2:00-ish years. What does that make you want to 1188 00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:40,920 shoot for next and and aim at in the future? 1189 00:57:40,920 --> 00:57:45,800 So I had like, I don't know, out on the trail, I, I always, 1190 00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:48,840 there's always like the, the feeling of like, why am I doing 1191 00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:51,480 this? Like, like I'm just destroying 1192 00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:53,160 my body. Is this really something that I 1193 00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:55,440 really want to do? And then as soon as I finish, 1194 00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:59,160 I'm like, let's do this again. Like I don't like, we, we got to 1195 00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:01,720 plan the next one. And I don't know what, what it 1196 00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,960 is or what the feeling is, but it's just like, I don't know. 1197 00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:09,320 I just love the planning. I love the sort of like the 1198 00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:12,480 execution, like going through it when you're in the midst of it, 1199 00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,840 it's a kind of a nightmare, but it's that's part of the the fun 1200 00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:17,680 of it. The last three hours is the 1201 00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,840 nightmare, or the last 10 hours, whatever it may be, once you 1202 00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,480 think you're going to get it, your brain doesn't want to get 1203 00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,400 it anymore. Yeah, so part of so I'm, I was 1204 00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:28,920 like, I don't know, I'm like running out of 300 mile trails 1205 00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:31,040 to do. Like I'm like, do I really want 1206 00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:32,560 to just keep doing 300 mile trails? 1207 00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:35,960 Like I, I sort of want to chase. I want to push myself, like 1208 00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:37,720 chase records, see what I can do. 1209 00:58:37,720 --> 00:58:41,120 So #1 Actually, on the trail, I was like, you know what? 1210 00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:42,320 I'm going to sign up for Coca Dona. 1211 00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:45,240 I was like, I've been like, apprehensive about it. 1212 00:58:45,240 --> 00:58:46,920 And I'm like, I don't know if I want to. 1213 00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:48,720 Yeah. But I decided I was like, you 1214 00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,000 know what? I want to experience that once 1215 00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:52,480 in my life. I want to do it. 1216 00:58:52,680 --> 00:58:54,680 So I entered the lottery. We'll see if we get in. 1217 00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:59,560 And part of it is also I've, I've always wanted to do an FKT 1218 00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:03,040 out in the like Arizona area, like in the American Southwest, 1219 00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:06,080 but there's, there's really not a lot of 300 mile trails like 1220 00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,120 you have the Arizona trail, but that's going to take a lot 1221 00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,800 longer than, you know, a week, which is tough for me to get 1222 00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:14,040 away for that long. And so I was like, Kokodono is a 1223 00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:17,240 really good sort of, you know, it's a crazy thing to say, but 1224 00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:23,200 like an entry point into. Yeah, well, us FKT people, we're 1225 00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:25,600 dropping down in distance to show up at Coca Dona. 1226 00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:27,120 I am and I'm like, this is crazy. 1227 00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:29,400 I can like sleep in a cot and like it's already set up for me 1228 00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:31,240 and I don't have to blow up an air pad and you know. 1229 00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:34,800 Please, please at the start line or when you're running with 1230 00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:37,080 people, tell them you're a 300 mile specialist. 1231 00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:40,040 Yeah, it's kind of my sweet, my sweet spot. 1232 00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:44,280 Yeah, you'll see how 250 feels, but usually you're good at 300. 1233 00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,440 Yeah, so I sign up for coconut. I'll see if I get in. 1234 00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:52,240 I have 100 mile race eastern states 100 in August which I 1235 00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,760 love doing. It's that area. 1236 00:59:54,760 --> 00:59:58,160 It's North Central Pennsylvania and it's it's I have FK TS on 1237 00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:01,520 like 3 of the trails that it it connects. 1238 01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:03,640 So it's like a special 100 mile race. 1239 01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:05,600 It's the only race I've ever done. 1240 01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,600 And so which is kind of funny, but so I've got that. 1241 01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:11,600 And then people always say they're like, are you like, do 1242 01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:14,680 you like to keep like your, your plan secret? 1243 01:00:14,680 --> 01:00:18,240 Do you, do you want like people to know like what your, what 1244 01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,440 trails you're, you're going for? And I'm always like, if there's 1245 01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:23,680 somebody that's going to be faster than me, I want them to 1246 01:00:23,680 --> 01:00:27,600 go before me rather than go out there, set a time and then have 1247 01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:29,480 them beat me. I'm like, I'd rather have. 1248 01:00:29,600 --> 01:00:31,080 I'd rather have it the other way around. 1249 01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,480 You want your records forever. Or at least to push myself 1250 01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:37,680 harder than I would if the other record didn't exist. 1251 01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:41,680 I agree it is such a thing of the bar, like it gets set 1252 01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:43,720 somewhere and then people eclipse it. 1253 01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:47,200 So I think it like it certainly is competitive in a way, but 1254 01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:51,320 also you get to aim your sights and goals higher once the higher 1255 01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:53,080 bar is set. I think that's the cool thing 1256 01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:56,680 about FKTSI mean I've done some that I was terrified that I 1257 01:00:56,680 --> 01:00:58,720 couldn't do that, and that's the beauty. 1258 01:00:58,760 --> 01:01:00,280 Yeah. And so that's, that's part of 1259 01:01:00,280 --> 01:01:02,960 The thing is I, I kind of enjoyed the fact that I was 1260 01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:06,200 really scared about this FKT. And it's just like a different 1261 01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,520 feeling than going into it and being like, I just as opposed to 1262 01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:11,040 being like, I just have to finish, which this one was. 1263 01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:13,080 I just have to finish. But it was a little more intense 1264 01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:16,640 than that because there's a lot, a lot more at stake because it's 1265 01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:18,520 not just like walking through the woods. 1266 01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,000 It's ton of elevation, ton of a lot of other factors. 1267 01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:26,000 But yeah, the the my like thing that my like year of failure 1268 01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,920 where I'm like, I want to try and it's OK if I fail, but the 1269 01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,040 long trail has always called for me. 1270 01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:33,040 I was actually planning on doing it. 1271 01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:36,280 The year that Will Peterson, he said his set that unsupported 1272 01:01:36,280 --> 01:01:40,640 FKT, which is like an epic time. There was a huge hurricane that 1273 01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:42,400 went through and I was planning on heading up there. 1274 01:01:42,400 --> 01:01:44,320 The hurricane came through and I was like, you know what, I'm not 1275 01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:46,480 going to add more, more stress to that area. 1276 01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:49,640 Will lived up there. And so he went out and ended up 1277 01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:51,920 hiking the trail and setting like a ridiculous time. 1278 01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:55,840 And so like, if you do all the math, it's like if I hiked my 1279 01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:59,160 normal pace, my normal like 25 minute miles over the entire 1280 01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:03,160 trail, I would need to cut off 11 hours to beat Will's time, 1281 01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,760 which is like, where do I make up 11 hours? 1282 01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,160 Like but. Wow, Yeah, when you put it like 1283 01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:12,320 that, it's a very impressive. So if you have any tips where I 1284 01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:13,960 can make up 11 hours let me know. 1285 01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:19,200 Yeah, no, 11 hours maybe. Maybe if we cut out cold soaking 1286 01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:22,520 that can save you a couple out, a couple minutes of fiddling 1287 01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:25,120 with stuff a day. So we've saved you 8 minutes. 1288 01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:28,120 I don't know, This might take a while to come up with 11 hours. 1289 01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:32,120 Yeah, and I want to hike the Long Trail regardless, so it's a 1290 01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:34,600 it's a win win. I I want to just hike that 1291 01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:36,280 trail. So I was like, you know what, 1292 01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:37,880 maybe I'll give it a try. Yeah. 1293 01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:39,200 So we'll see. We'll see. 1294 01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:43,920 Last question because I think it's really cool and maybe not 1295 01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:46,480 highlighted enough. So you have you have a family 1296 01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:48,400 and stuff too. How do you balance it all? 1297 01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:52,760 Like what is your life look like to train for these multi day 1298 01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:56,000 FKTS? But also like we had to schedule 1299 01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:57,760 this because you had kid activities going. 1300 01:02:57,760 --> 01:03:00,760 I think that's pretty awesome, but not a lot of people know you 1301 01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:02,760 can fit some of these things into your life. 1302 01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:05,800 Yeah, it's kind of funny that. So I have my daughter Caroline, 1303 01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:08,160 7 and my daughter Addie is she'll be 4 in a month. 1304 01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:11,200 And it's kind of funny that like before the seven-year old, I had 1305 01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:13,800 like infinite amount of time or I could do whatever I wanted 1306 01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:16,320 whenever I wanted it. And I did not do FKTS, which are 1307 01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:20,040 like extremely time consuming the most. 1308 01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:22,160 Yeah. So it's like, wow, you really 1309 01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:27,720 plan that one really well. And so it's a lot of. 1310 01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:30,680 So my wife is amazing. Laura is incredible. 1311 01:03:30,680 --> 01:03:34,720 And so it's a lot of, hey, on Saturday, I'm going to wake up 1312 01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:36,800 at 4:00 in the morning. We're going to do a long run. 1313 01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:41,560 I'll be back by 11 and so or, you know, this weekend I'm going 1314 01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:44,320 to do a, a shake out hike. I'm going to do, you know, I'll 1315 01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:47,440 be gone for three nights just to, you know, do a, do a 1316 01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:49,440 backpacking trip with some big miles. 1317 01:03:49,560 --> 01:03:52,680 It's a lot of like planning around family vacations and 1318 01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:55,560 stuff and then coordinating with Laura. 1319 01:03:55,560 --> 01:04:01,320 She's she's very understanding of my passion and helps she, she 1320 01:04:01,320 --> 01:04:03,760 takes a lot of the the kid load. So yeah. 1321 01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:07,720 Yeah, you're not like parenting hard from Day 4 on the Bette 1322 01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:09,240 McKay trailer or anything. Yeah. 1323 01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:10,400 Exactly. Yeah. 1324 01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,240 And when and when I get back, she's great because it's like, 1325 01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:15,520 she knows that it takes me like a day or two where I, like, 1326 01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:17,280 can't jump right back into parenting. 1327 01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:19,960 So she's like, yeah. Do you get back in like they 1328 01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:23,800 want to play or run and jump on your arms and you're like, my 1329 01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:27,080 body doesn't work yet? They well, they know they're 1330 01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:30,640 like my little 4 year old daddy Today was like dad, she's like, 1331 01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:32,640 I'm, she's like, I promise I won't step on your toes. 1332 01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:35,840 I'm like, it's OK. I'm like I'm good now. 1333 01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:39,120 It's been a week. It it's so funny because they're 1334 01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:41,480 like at the ages where they'll tell their friends stuff too, 1335 01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:44,360 and they're going to be like, daddy has really fragile toes. 1336 01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:47,240 Yeah, but it's funny, their perspective is like, I don't, I 1337 01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:51,320 don't know if this is good or bad, but I ran like 31 mile race 1338 01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:54,280 a couple weeks ago. And so I was talking with my my 1339 01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:57,040 7 year old Caroline and she was like, I was like, I'm going away 1340 01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:58,480 this week and I'm running a race. 1341 01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:00,520 She's like, how many days is it going to take you? 1342 01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:03,600 I was like, oh, I was like, it's going to take me like 5 hours. 1343 01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:05,800 And she's like, wait, you're not even. 1344 01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:07,800 It's only that I've been a full day and I'm like, no. 1345 01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:09,600 So her perspective is like, yeah. 1346 01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:13,160 She's disappointed in you. You gotta get those numbers up. 1347 01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:15,800 Man, she's like, seriously, She's like, what's the point? 1348 01:05:16,040 --> 01:05:18,720 I'm like. Our family doesn't do things for 1349 01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:20,160 less than a day. Come on. 1350 01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:22,720 Yeah, it's less than a day. Well, thanks so much for joining 1351 01:05:22,720 --> 01:05:24,240 us. So you have a YouTube? 1352 01:05:24,400 --> 01:05:27,040 Yeah, I think you only have a couple videos on the the 1353 01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:30,160 YouTube, but you have a good one on the Bette Mackay trail. 1354 01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,760 So yeah. So people can go check that out. 1355 01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:34,880 What else? Where else can they find out 1356 01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,760 more? I read the report just on FKT 1357 01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:40,040 under Bette Mackay, but I don't know where else do you want to 1358 01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:42,600 point people. So I really don't have much 1359 01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:45,840 going on. I just I just have typical. 1360 01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:47,600 Thru hiker, yeah. Seriously. 1361 01:05:47,720 --> 01:05:50,920 Yeah, it was. So I I just have if you, I mean, 1362 01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:52,520 if you want to go read my trip reward, it's on 1363 01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:57,200 fkd.fktfastestknowntime.com. My YouTube videos up there. 1364 01:05:57,200 --> 01:06:00,720 I just do it to, I don't know, I just want to mostly just show my 1365 01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:03,360 dad and my family like they're always curious. 1366 01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:05,400 I'm like, yeah, I'll make a video. 1367 01:06:05,440 --> 01:06:07,160 Yeah, you got extra battery power. 1368 01:06:07,160 --> 01:06:09,120 You're like, might as well just film some more stuff. 1369 01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:10,960 Seriously. Yeah, that was also the reason 1370 01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:13,520 why I brought a 20,000. I was like, I'll make a video. 1371 01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:16,480 It worked out well. Yeah, it's pretty hard to put 1372 01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:18,120 those together after the fact. Yeah. 1373 01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:20,080 Well, thanks for joining. This is great. 1374 01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:23,240 Thanks for having me, it was fun to chat, I could talk about this 1375 01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:27,320 stuff for days and days so. Thank you for listening to the 1376 01:06:27,320 --> 01:06:29,360 show. I appreciate you guys being 1377 01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:31,720 here. A lot goes into these and I seem 1378 01:06:31,720 --> 01:06:36,160 to be writing my own intros. Look at that putting time and 1379 01:06:36,160 --> 01:06:39,160 effort and creative passion into this project. 1380 01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:43,240 A lot of good episodes coming. The schedule will continue as 1381 01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:45,960 I'm on my travels and I'm thinking I'll pop in with an 1382 01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:48,880 update live from across the pond too. 1383 01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:52,360 So smash to subscribe if you want to support it will just go 1384 01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:56,520 to filling the void of how much free stuff I put into the world. 1385 01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:59,760 There's a Patreon, there's a sub stack, there's all kinds of 1386 01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:01,880 stuff. But anyways, just appreciate you 1387 01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:04,240 guys being here and listening for free. 1388 01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:05,840 All right, stay elite, my friends.