1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,480 Before we get into today's conversation, I want to spend a 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:06,480 minute talking about our guest today. 3 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:11,240 Our guest is Anne Tracin. We had a phone call, recorded it 4 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:12,880 and you guys get to listen to that today. 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:18,520 But if you're newer to trail and ultra running, or FKTS or the 6 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,600 space in general, or you're younger, it can be hard to fully 7 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:25,680 appreciate what Anne meant to this sport. 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:30,280 Long before live stream, social media sponsorship, or even many 9 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,560 of the races we take for granted today, Anne was redefining what 10 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:38,280 was possible in ultra running, not just women's ultra running. 11 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:46,040 In ultra running in general, she won Western states 14 times, 14 12 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,080 different times she won Western states. 13 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,400 And every year we talk about who might want to win it one time. 14 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,920 That's a lot. A record that still stands 15 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,720 decades later. Of course, that is a lot of 16 00:00:57,720 --> 00:00:59,600 times. She set course records that 17 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,200 lasted for years, completed head, competed head to head with 18 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:06,480 the best runners in the world, all around the world, regardless 19 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:10,480 of gender, at a time when opportunities for women in 20 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,440 endurance sports were really limited. 21 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,480 It was it was very different than it is today. 22 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,360 And I think the empowerment's incredible today and hopefully 23 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,240 it keeps going. But Anne was really fighting 24 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,760 against mostly the men up there at the front of races. 25 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,240 She wasn't trying to make a statement, but simply showing 26 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,360 up, running her own race, improving what was possible. 27 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,760 But what strikes me most about Anne isn't the trophies, the 28 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:40,960 records, or the statistics. It's a even after all these 29 00:01:40,960 --> 00:01:44,360 years, she seems driven by the same curiosity that got her 30 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:48,480 started, even though maybe it's 100 miles over six days instead 31 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,680 of 15 hours. But I think that joy and that 32 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,440 curiosity is something that persists. 33 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,720 We talked a little bit about having goals and and aging and 34 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:02,320 things and that same love of trails, community, adventure and 35 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,040 seeing what's possible when you challenge yourself. 36 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,639 In this conversation, we don't spend a lot of time going 37 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:12,200 through races or race results or championship performances. 38 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,120 Instead, we talked about some of the history, the individual 39 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:22,160 stories, western states, aging, recovery, community, laughter, 40 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,760 and what endurance means after the records. 41 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:31,000 You know, age away into history, as maybe my own FKTS are going 42 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,320 to do, which is what I'm realizing right now in the 43 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,280 present as I record this. But as someone who spent a lot 44 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,360 of time chasing big goals myself, I find it really 45 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,360 refreshing to talk to someone who's lived through so many eras 46 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,520 of the sport and still approaches it with gratitude, 47 00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:50,840 humor, curiosity. You may have seen her videos 48 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,000 about Coke a Dona or Coke and Donuts as she put it. 49 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:59,040 The updates and everything were so fun, so I hope that she 50 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:03,080 continues to use her voice and put things out there because 51 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,200 she's a fun personality. We had a fun time chatting on 52 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,080 the phone, so maybe look her up a little, a few don't know much 53 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:15,000 about her or just sit back and listen to our conversation with 54 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,000 Ann Trason. So the thing with this 55 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,040 conversation is for some reason, so we it was on the phone we 56 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:27,120 recorded a phone call and I'm not an audio engineer and my 57 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:30,720 audio is actually not very good. I got hers pretty darn good. 58 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,160 But mine, you know, hopefully you're not here to listen to me 59 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,120 talk because Anne's audio is pretty good. 60 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:40,160 Mine is lacking. So sorry about that. 61 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,080 And if you are a viewer, if you watch this on on YouTube or 62 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:49,200 wherever I put the the videos up, then you're going to notice 63 00:03:49,200 --> 00:03:52,040 that there is not video because it was a phone call. 64 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:57,320 So subscribe to the show. We put out episodes twice a week 65 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,800 with so many unique guests. I think the fascinating people 66 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,760 are the unique people. And I try to find them, whether 67 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,680 they have a big following, whether they're well known, no 68 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:10,440 matter how many Western states they have. 69 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,240 I just like the people who are fun to talk to. 70 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,880 And Anne Tracen's one of them. So here is that episode. 71 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,720 I I just to get things started and we can take this wherever 72 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:23,920 you want. I'm so curious, how do you 73 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,360 decorate your house when you have to incorporate 14 different 74 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:34,080 massive cougar trophies? Well, oh, Cougars, I am they, I 75 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:39,480 loan them out out. Well, my some of my family, like 76 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,880 all my family members, have one, of course. 77 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:47,600 Yeah, they're gifts. And that, and I mean, it was 78 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,320 really an honor to be quite honest that my brother and half 79 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:52,800 sister wanted one. I mean, because they're not 80 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:55,480 runners, you know what I mean? It's like here, I mean, really, 81 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:57,680 what do you say to someone? It's like, this thing's 82 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:01,000 priceless to me. It's like this cougar trophy 83 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,560 thing that's out of brass and weighs almost 30 lbs. 84 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:06,000 Would you like one in your house? 85 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,200 I mean, or you're where my brother lives like a little, you 86 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,400 know, in law apartment thing above his garage. 87 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,560 It's like, and they both were like, oh, absolutely. 88 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:20,960 So their way they went to Fede. You want to hear 1 funny real 89 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,040 story like I've let them out a lot. 90 00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:28,640 Well, not a lot, but some gay around the mostly on the West 91 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,680 Coast to running stores and what you know, and one's going to 92 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,640 hopefully go in this museum thing, maybe in Auburn. 93 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,000 I don't know. Seriously where one is. 94 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:41,840 It's in the wild. I see my friend, my friend 95 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:43,480 wanted to document where they were. 96 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,440 She likes spreadsheets. So I got a spreadsheet out and 97 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,800 it's like this year, this troph, I mean, I couldn't believe it. 98 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,560 I was like, seriously. She's like, well, yeah, yeah. 99 00:05:54,640 --> 00:06:00,640 I mean, she did help design it. But anyway, I honestly, I, I 100 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:02,880 don't know if she's unhappy. I'm she has to be unhappy with 101 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:04,080 me. I just laugh with her. 102 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,320 I go well, once in a while, Maybe it'll come home. 103 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,480 So there's a cougar out there you have no idea where. 104 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:11,160 It is. I have no idea where it is. 105 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,240 Wow, so everyone should keep their eyes out for just a cougar 106 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:18,560 in the wild. That's good one in. 107 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:25,840 The wild. I'm sorry, I'm really amusing. 108 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,960 I have a very strange sense of humor, apparently. 109 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,760 Oh well, we love it. So what? 110 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:35,320 What got you on to Cocodona? How did you discover? 111 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:37,280 How did you decide that you're going to? 112 00:06:37,280 --> 00:06:39,080 Make Oh, well, I know Anthony Culpepper. 113 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:42,760 So when he was I met him before they started. 114 00:06:43,280 --> 00:06:46,560 There's this event called beyond limits ultras or something. 115 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,920 It was honestly, it was one of the greatest things. 116 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,640 I mean, I'm in just now because I'm old and and crippled, kind 117 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,840 of not crippled, but you know, like I have mature authority. 118 00:06:56,280 --> 00:06:59,680 I have difficulties, let's just say on my whatever I'm doing. 119 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,880 But anyway, I did this. I now have this unbelievably 120 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:07,960 affectionate affection for time time events. 121 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,360 And Anthony Koplopp was there. You know who he is, right? 122 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:17,240 Yeah, yeah. And he, he was talking about 123 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:19,520 doing this thing with Jamil. Always gets my interest because 124 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:20,960 honestly, I think that guy's brilliant. 125 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:25,240 Personally, I just like to be in his brain for like 30 minutes 126 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,960 because he must have like 5 billion things going on at one 127 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:30,040 time. So he told me he was going to 128 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:33,720 map off the course. And I I, you know, being a trail 129 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,080 lover and I did a lot of exploring. 130 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:38,880 I didn't do like you guys do you know, this fastest known thing 131 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:40,440 and put on strawberry or anything like that. 132 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,480 I just kind of did my own thing. So I knew a lot of those trails 133 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:46,720 and it's beautiful and I was really intrigued. 134 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,880 And also I was a race director for a while and I'm like, Oh my 135 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:52,880 goodness, how many permits are you gonna have to pull? 136 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,000 I was just like, holy cow. I mean, 'cause I put on a race 137 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,080 in the East Bay hills and even though it was one permit, there 138 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,000 were five supervisors. So it was like getting 5 for 139 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,360 each park I went through 'cause they're it's East Bay parks, 140 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:13,080 it's kilometer parks and Oh no, I hope this is not on a my phone 141 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:17,520 is batteries kind of grim. So anyway, I just was like 142 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,400 intrigued. And also it's beautiful. 143 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,680 And then, you know, it started with this whole live streaming 144 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,400 thing, which I have a love hate relationship. 145 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:27,560 I got hate. I just like kind of like, I'm 146 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,400 glad I'm not a top runner anymore 'cause I would not like 147 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,120 that, you know, having you know, cameras on you all the time. 148 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:38,520 I mean, it was bad enough in my day I feel like a dinosaur 149 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,120 anyway so but I loved it. I would hate to have a drone 150 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:44,880 over me. I'd probably throw rocks at it 151 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:47,080 or something at least like stick out my tongue. 152 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,480 And just like that's annoying cause helicopters used to fly 153 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:53,440 over my head. Blood Ville had flats would go 154 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,520 high, hats would go flying and Oh my goodness. 155 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,680 But I just I started watching it too and I just I was like the 156 00:08:59,680 --> 00:09:01,880 senior. It's like watching the tour when 157 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:03,360 they used to have more helicopter shots. 158 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,480 You know, it's just like, yeah, this is beautiful. 159 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,520 And I, you just get addicted to it. 160 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,240 So I've been following it all these years. 161 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,440 I just, you know, I mean, like everyone else, right? 162 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,120 I'm human. Yeah, and then then Coke and 163 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,720 Donuts and the old years. I have these funny friends that 164 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,280 came over and we were just like, I was telling. 165 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,880 She was kind of surprised. Like, why are you so intrigued 166 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:27,680 with it? And I'm like, well, it's like 167 00:09:27,680 --> 00:09:32,320 Cokes and Donuts and I don't know, just get grew organically. 168 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,400 And then once you start that, it's like, oh man, you got to 169 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,040 finish this. Yeah, you kept adding to it. 170 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,360 You were like wearing funny glasses and stuff by the end 171 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:45,440 too. Oh well, that's kind of who I am 172 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,760 these days. Yeah, you're the funny glasses 173 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,000 lady these days. Or outfits or, you know, 174 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,000 anything that you can buy at 2:00 in the morning on Amazon. 175 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,200 Well, that's me too. Me and the Acers all finished in 176 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:05,400 dresses this year so well. That's cool. 177 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,000 Yeah, when it's something so long, you got to find ways to 178 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,200 break it up, make it unique, too. 179 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,880 And the special experience, it's more than just a race. 180 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,760 It's like you're living it for a long time out there. 181 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:22,040 Yeah, I can't imagine 'cause I used to say that Western states 182 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:24,920 was a life in a day, although that was used in a movie that 183 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:26,640 didn't have that context or narrative. 184 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,120 Exactly. But for me, I always felt like 185 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,880 that's why I was so exciting. It was like, wow, I get the 186 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:36,240 starting lot of Western States and be like, wow, this is like I 187 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,040 am. So I get a whole life in a day 188 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,600 'cause I'd always, I always like to play games in my head and be 189 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,640 like, oh, when you're starting out, you're an infant. 190 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,160 That's why it's so hard to get. You can't even learn how to walk 191 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:49,800 and you know you're learning to walk. 192 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:51,560 And then high country, you're an adolescent. 193 00:10:51,560 --> 00:10:54,320 You go through the middle age crisis in the canyons. 194 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,400 Of course, if you take care of yourself, then you're middle 195 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:01,840 age, for you have a retirement at Forest Hill and you can just 196 00:11:01,840 --> 00:11:07,160 sweetly run to the river if you have a lot of cash and you know 197 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:09,400 whatever else you're worried about through the canyons. 198 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,040 If you saved all early in the race. 199 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,720 Yeah, if you saved early, man, you got it good. 200 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,520 And then when you're out there at 85 miles and you're kind of 201 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:19,160 like, why am I so tired? You decide. 202 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,080 Would honestly say I'm 85 years old. 203 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,520 What do you think, Tracin? Like, come on, you're doing 204 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:25,600 pretty good. Let's go. 205 00:11:27,560 --> 00:11:31,640 And I did that coca dona. You'd be 250 by the end. 206 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:34,640 I guess that's why I never signed up for one, because I 207 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,880 couldn't live that long. Do you think you would have been 208 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:42,400 into two 50s or two hundreds if if you were run into death? 209 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,080 Well this is really funny. I don't know, this probably is 210 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,760 not something you should say as a woman, but kind of a 211 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,960 unofficial prenuptial with my husband that I was married to 212 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,680 for a long time. And he honestly asked me not to 213 00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:00,480 do anything longer than 24 hours because he said he didn't want 214 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:06,400 to take care of me afterwards 'cause I really wanted to do bad 215 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,240 water. And he's like, I don't think you 216 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,640 can break 24. So I crewed bad water and that 217 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,760 was bad enough, but it was just kind of joke with this. 218 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,760 I tried to do a 48 hour once and also I like sleep, especially 219 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,960 when I was young. Not so much now the Amazon 220 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:26,960 problem but and anything else. But honestly I 2:00 in the 221 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,480 morning. I tried multi, you know, like 24 222 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,400 hours a lot of them two in the morning. 223 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,560 I'm like, where's the hotel? It's not like I'm a Princess or 224 00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:38,200 anything. I just would get my eyes. 225 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,080 I'd be so tired. And I just, you know, these 226 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:50,080 ideas of a dirt nap just I mean, I don't know, I don't think you. 227 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:54,680 Although I did this 48 hour and I said 20 minutes. 228 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,240 Maybe it's a headspace. I just wasn't in the right 229 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:58,520 headspace. How's that sound? 230 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:00,760 Yeah. But I don't know, maybe I would 231 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:01,640 have been. Who knows? 232 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:04,480 You know, he it's a whole different world now. 233 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,600 I mean, I'm talking Rotary phones and everything else you 234 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,400 guys don't know about. Yeah, well, we've heard of the 235 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:11,880 concepts. Dial ups. 236 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,600 Dial up Internet, Yeah. How about when they work 237 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:20,280 computers or iPhone? Yeah, we can't just. 238 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,880 Black and white T VS I remember when we got a black and white 239 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:24,920 TV. Now that ages me. 240 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,200 Yeah, just a bit though, I mean. Just a bit. 241 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,720 Was it? Was it hard dealing with the 242 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,480 attention in your career? You mentioned how you would like 243 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,360 the live stream now. Was was it? 244 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,960 Did the attention take away from the adventure and the journey? 245 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:43,800 I didn't like it. Yeah. 246 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,920 But to me, it wasn't the racing. I mean, you're only going to get 247 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,160 the attention. I mean, you maybe have to do 248 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,720 interviews. I mean, I was sponsored by Nike. 249 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,240 I loved them. They were really good to me. 250 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:00,440 And so, you know, you, it was a privilege to have people call up 251 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,600 and want to interview, but I found it very difficult. 252 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,080 I mean, I don't know about you. You're super famous. 253 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:09,120 How do you deal with it? I'm I'm no end tracing just. 254 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,280 That's not oh, come on, what you've done Like what's this 255 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,800 thing Appalachian? I mean seriously, was that self 256 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,320 support? I can't even they have all these 257 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,320 different categories in my head. I'm too old. 258 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,160 So was it self supported? Self supported. 259 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,080 So like, did you just not eat for 45 days or what? 260 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,720 No, I resupplied so I mailed myself stuff. 261 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,400 You must really like spreadsheets. 262 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,720 No, but my fiance does so hopefully help. 263 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,720 Behind every great man. Absolutely. 264 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,200 Yeah. You know so. 265 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,880 Did she just not see you at all for 45 days? 266 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,840 No, Nope. But that's that's what I'm 267 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,200 saying. We're both the funny glasses 268 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,840 finish and dread. Like these days, you know, we're 269 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,320 leaning into what's quirky and fun. 270 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,320 Follow our personality and, you know, our friends and and 271 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,920 everything have to be the spreadsheet people because I 272 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:12,880 don't like spreadsheets either. I can't believe that because you 273 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:17,160 can't not plan for something like that and not do so well. 274 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:18,320 Well, let's. OK. 275 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,640 What was the most unexpected thing that happened up there 276 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,520 that you really didn't think was going to happen? 277 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:26,120 Yeah, let's talk about my lack of planning. 278 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,480 So in one of my resupply boxes that was going to be new shoes 279 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:32,520 and I was so excited for it. I opened it up and there were 280 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:40,840 two left shoes so. 01 year in states or the United States. 281 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,160 And the worst is I, I'd leave the stuff in our van till the 282 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,520 next day cause hubby would go to work, right? 283 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:52,160 And that was my job. And I would be so tired, you 284 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:56,280 know, 'cause I hadn't slept and whatever and eaten or, you know, 285 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,600 one time I couldn't find my shoes for a couple days. 286 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,400 I put them in the freezer. I'm not kidding. 287 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:05,760 I'm not. Hubby opens it. 288 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:10,360 Your shoes are here. He was so just by then just 289 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,960 flabbergasted because he had crude and you know everything. 290 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,720 He's pretty tired himself. He's just like, what the hell is 291 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,800 wrong with you? Yeah. 292 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:22,680 So we both have some shoe problems, some shoe placement. 293 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,200 Oh, so how did that? Did you just run in those other 294 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:30,760 shoes the rest of the way or did you go to a shoe store? 295 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:34,080 Yeah, eventually I had to keep going on those shoes, which were 296 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:35,600 full of. Well if you're doing it self 297 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,520 supported, can you order stuff on Amazon? 298 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,280 Yeah, you can. You can order stuff but I went 299 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:44,480 to a shoe store about 100. Miles rules up. 300 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:45,800 What? What? 301 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,720 Makes the rules up. What are what rules? 302 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,040 I mean, this is I'm sorry. Yeah, the. 303 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,280 I mean, can you just make up your own rules? 304 00:16:54,280 --> 00:17:02,800 It's a JG, self supported. Yeah, well, FG or whatever JG 305 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,480 and you could just make a point. Yeah, the the Bulls, they used 306 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:10,520 to be like more precedent based and now they're they're so 307 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,440 official, just like just like everything else in this world. 308 00:17:15,720 --> 00:17:17,280 I'm just trying to be OK with these. 309 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,240 I'm serious. I've given this some amount of 310 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:20,839 thought. Not a whole lot because my brain 311 00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:22,880 capacity is very limited. This is time. 312 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,240 But I mean, when you're doing some like in race, you should be 313 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,600 running against so that, I mean, I mean, ultras, you can 314 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:32,560 technically, and I would feel that way, you're just running 315 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,320 against yourself. But when you're doing something 316 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:35,640 like that, are you really like going? 317 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,720 Well, Scott Jerrick did it in this section or whatever. 318 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,080 That other guy from Utah did it in this section. 319 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,560 So I need to do better. Are you always concentrating on 320 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,920 someone else, or are you concentrating just on the best 321 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:49,280 you can be, or something in between? 322 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:55,280 It's very much on why I like FKTS is it's very much about my 323 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,960 style, like how I do a best. And so that's worrying less 324 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,160 about what other people's times and splits were and doing it my 325 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,280 way, which I think it's been actually hard in the ultra 326 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,840 running or trail space because it is like the person's right 327 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:11,920 next to you. It's harder to stick to your 328 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,920 game plan. But yeah, I'm very much get the 329 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,880 best out of myself and see where that well man, let me. 330 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,320 Ask you that then why do you need to put it up out there 331 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,800 anyway, 'cause I did a lot, I did a lot of runs in my day that 332 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,320 I don't people even know about. And sometimes people make up 333 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:29,280 time to go. Yeah, she did the Ray light 334 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,480 loops and then someone posted a time I'm like, I didn't even 335 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,760 have a watch when I did the Ray light loop. 336 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,600 I mean, I knew when the sun came up, I went it down and I just 337 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,280 would look at the sky and go, you better pick it up. 338 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:46,560 You had no headlamps back then. Oh, we had headlamp. 339 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,320 Well, no, we didn't. As a matter of fact, I ran 340 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,280 before headlamps. They were the I don't even like 341 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,760 them myself, but I used to go to diving store 'cause they were 342 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,720 the brightest lights, but they they'd only last very short 343 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:02,720 time. OK, so I would just exchange 344 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,880 flashlights. Yeah. 345 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,480 Yeah, yeah. I mean seriously, I just was 346 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:12,200 like I you always have a backup pack, a couple of flashlights, 347 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,440 no matter anytime you go on the Sierras, that's a given. 348 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:20,480 As a matter of fact, I hiked with this guy before I had this 349 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,760 little RA getting worse. But when we were hiking, he'd 350 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,120 always bring 2 lights with headlamps, 'cause he said when I 351 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:29,440 go out with you, sometimes we're out here till 2:00 in the 352 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,160 morning, right? Just hiking. 353 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,320 I mean, I mean, it was hysterical and we used them. 354 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,120 I was like, I just got used to it. 355 00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:37,680 He was like, you know, security blanket. 356 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,320 I don't need the lights 'cause he'll John will have a light. 357 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:45,640 Yeah, so you just knew he'd have enough lights for you too. 358 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:52,440 Well, there were a couple times, 01 time I went out and I, my 359 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,960 bike did go dead and luckily I found these backpackers and they 360 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:00,320 didn't lend me a flashlight and they told me what their car was. 361 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,000 So I told them when they where I finished, 'cause that's where 362 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,120 they start too. I would leave the flashlight on 363 00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:07,680 their their windshield. Yeah. 364 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,680 That was his, and I had my dogs. You know, it's really bad when 365 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,360 you have other animals that you're taking care of. 366 00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:17,800 You're trying to explain to them, but they can see better 367 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,240 than you. So sometimes it was great. 368 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,880 I just follow the dogs and hope I didn't trip and fall and kill 369 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,480 myself. Yeah, well, they got 4 feet to 370 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:25,720 depend on. You only got 2. 371 00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,760 I think they they definitely saw better than I did, that was for 372 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:30,640 sure. Yeah. 373 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:34,640 That's kind of interesting 'cause yeah, all this stuff 374 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,800 about people doing these times and if you cut switchbacks and 375 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,840 not switchbacks, I mean. Yeah. 376 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,680 What do you think of this world with all these rules and 377 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,040 different things out there now, where it feels way more 378 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:52,240 complicated than a couple decades ago? 379 00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,720 The thing I'm not really used to is, is content, social media, 380 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:02,920 gravitude to everything is you grab your phone and you just 381 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,280 film it and then put it on subside or another. 382 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:12,600 I went out to dinner with this woman at running store, asked me 383 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,080 here. I privilege really, really, 384 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,640 really good brother. I'm very famous in Spain. 385 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,080 Apparently she showed up with a videographer and a photographer 386 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,360 for dinner. I'm like, isn't that boring? 387 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,920 Like, are you kidding? I mean, you're embarrassing. 388 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,760 It is. I go to this place all the time. 389 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,080 And I'm like, they didn't even know who I was. 390 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,000 And you're like, why do you have these people here? 391 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:37,360 I'm like, I don't know. It's her. 392 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,760 She's a professional runner. That's how she introduced 393 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:44,680 herself and I have no idea. This is very weird. 394 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:46,560 I just hid in the corner and talked with this other guy 395 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:48,000 going. I cannot believe this is 396 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,520 happening. Find myself saying that a lot. 397 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,920 Little overwhelming there, too. I have these friends that showed 398 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,800 up here and they wanted to be movie night at my house 'cause 399 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,800 they're practicing when they go to their running festivals and I 400 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,080 don't know what else they're doing, you know, backyard stuff. 401 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,920 So they put a white screen they and they posted it and I'm like, 402 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:16,200 I guess I'm having movie night at my house and then they're all 403 00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:18,560 going up and down and had to be costumed. 404 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:20,480 So they're up and down and they're inflatables. 405 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,760 My inflatables really on my street, having one of my 406 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,240 neighbors, my near neighbor who's 10 years older than me, 407 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,800 film them. And I just kept saying, I can't 408 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:39,200 believe this is happening. I love them dearly. 409 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,880 They make me laugh so hard. It's like, it's like free 410 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,040 entertainment. They just show up and I'm like, 411 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,240 I sit on my couch and watch them. 412 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:51,880 That's really weird. So I'm curious what took you to 413 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,280 back to across the years this year and that's kind of where, 414 00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:57,840 you know, you exploded back onto the scene. 415 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,880 I needed a break from life for a few years, so I did that. 416 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,560 And then I guess I really miss the community. 417 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,320 I wanted to see if I could challenge myself. 418 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,800 I mean, it's a joke really. I mean, come on, 100 and 419 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:16,400 whatever miles I did. But I'm, I miss that headspace, 420 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,560 that's my happy place where you just have a goal no matter what 421 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,800 it is, and that's what you're on, You're in the present. 422 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:29,920 I really like, I think it's why I enjoyed Western States running 423 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:35,520 ultras 'cause I would just focus on that moment and all the other 424 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,520 noise just disappeared. It was awesome. 425 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,560 And honestly, I'll start crying here. 426 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:48,360 I didn't realize at all that anyone would care. 427 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,560 It was a little overwhelming to be quite honest, and I'm 428 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,720 grateful for it. Yeah. 429 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,280 Did you get that same mindset that you had back in your 430 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,880 Western states days It. Oh, absolutely. 431 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,000 It was insane. I didn't know that was going to 432 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,040 happen. You don't know till you try. 433 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,760 Yeah, I mean, it was so funny. I just wanted to go there and 434 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,880 just be. There was a couple people I 435 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:23,520 wanted to see and yeah, I just went with that mine. 436 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,720 And I told my doctor seriously, I would never, I thought, if I 437 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:31,800 hadn't hiked honestly more than a 5K at one point in over six 438 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,400 years. Wow. 439 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,720 Yeah, I was pretty inactive for about 6 years. 440 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,960 Like really inactive, which kind of surprised me. 441 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:46,600 I was happy. I enjoyed it, but but then once 442 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:50,600 the switch, you know, I was like, wow, I miss moving, I miss 443 00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:56,400 people, I miss my community, which I don't know if they feel 444 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,240 I'm in their community, but it's an honor to be there. 445 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:07,080 And anyway, yeah, it was, you know, it was really a nice. 446 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,080 There were just so many great moments in that six days. 447 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,360 I can't tell you. My head still can't comprehend 448 00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:14,840 it. Yeah. 449 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,560 Were you nervous at the start of it? 450 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,800 Not really, 'cause I was excited. 451 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:24,920 It was so funny. So I start and I'm like, OK, I'm 452 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,040 gonna do a lap and I'm gonna sit for two hours. 453 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,800 You know, I got 5K or whatever I had planned every day. 454 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,440 I don't remember how much it was 8 miles a day I think or 455 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:37,040 whatever to get to 50K and I start doing 2 laps and I'm 456 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:44,280 already thinking I have 6 days. I'm doing like whatever mileage, 457 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,280 you know, it's pathetic. I'm doing the math in my head. 458 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:52,400 I'm like, I can get a buckle and like then someone comes up to me 459 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,080 like 2 hours later and I'm just contemplating. 460 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,280 I'm like, you know, don't push it. 461 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:02,440 You have rheumatoid arthritis. You, your feet are really a 462 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:04,640 mess. They want to do this surgery on 463 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,200 him. I'm in crazy and I'm just like 464 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:10,160 getting more and more excited internally. 465 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:12,080 Like I don't want to say anything and jinx myself. 466 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,760 And then I have a client. I still have some coaching 467 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,640 clients and he put it on Facebook, but he knew me and I 468 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:25,440 was going for the buckle hour 4I and someone comes up and goes, 469 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,320 hey, Ken, put on there. You're going for the buckle. 470 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,680 Are you going to get it? And I at first I was kind of 471 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,560 angry. I have to say inside at first I 472 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:37,240 was like, I was like, why would you do that to me Ken? 473 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,760 And then I just couldn't stop laughing 'cause I was like, I 474 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:49,880 would have done that to him. You know, I've had a coat 1314, 475 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,400 something like that. You know, we know each other so 476 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:59,160 well and it just that warmth that I got from that, that just 477 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,680 was like the kindling to the most awesome 6 days I think I've 478 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,240 had in a long time. Wow, that's so cool. 479 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:08,560 I don't know. I mean, for me it was. 480 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,040 I didn't even know. Well, I think that's the 481 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,040 beautiful thing about it is, you know, wherever you're at in the 482 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,800 binding this community and getting those feelings again. 483 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,160 And maybe it's not first at Western, but you're still 484 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,960 getting the feeling of chasing that you're out there doing 485 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:27,760 doing mileage math in your head. You're you're back. 486 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:30,960 Well, did you feel different after the Appalachian Trail? 487 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,520 Yeah, definitely. I'd say I felt different. 488 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,640 What is the most major thing you learned out there? 489 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:48,800 I think it's just a whole new level of giving myself a chance 490 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,720 or never writing it off because I was pretty far behind at the 491 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,640 halfway point that just harnessing everything and never 492 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,280 letting my mind click over to thinking I didn't have a chance. 493 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:04,120 That's a a lesson that could take pretty far in life of, you 494 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:05,920 know, it could be not going your way. 495 00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,920 But if you still think you have a chance, the brain's pretty 496 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,640 powerful and the body's going to follow. 497 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,920 That's one thing I think is complete I wish I had given more 498 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:19,760 thought to, is how powerful the mind. 499 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:21,800 And that's the thing that intrigues me most about 500 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,000 ultroning right now is the headspace people can put 501 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,600 themselves in. I mean, you talk about, I even 502 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,480 can't believe it, you talk about pain like a pan cave and 503 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,880 everything. Well, I never got there, but I 504 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,880 mean, what does a pan cave look like? 505 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,680 I mean, does it feel different? I mean, do you? 506 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:46,840 These are these are called the hard questions with Anne tracing 507 00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:47,600 here. Wow. 508 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,240 I I think it's that feeling where maybe the best way to 509 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,320 describe it is the end feels far enough away that you don't feel 510 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:57,320 like you're just gritting it out. 511 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:00,720 You just have to make peace with you hurt quite a bit, but you're 512 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,040 gonna continue forward in this pain per SE. 513 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:09,200 I I try to embrace a little different style of like the 514 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:13,480 enjoyment of what I'm doing, but you certainly do feel awful and 515 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:19,280 have to keep going at times too. But is it discomfort or pain? 516 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:22,960 Probably more discomfort. I don't know. 517 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,400 I mean, yeah. What would it feel like for you 518 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,560 in mile 70 of 100 Miller in your heyday? 519 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,960 There was a line. I wouldn't cross it. 520 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,080 Yeah, he'd just be done. No crossing. 521 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:41,920 Well, no, I I would look at it be kind of like you're only one 522 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,720 time. When I ran Comrades the last 523 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:49,360 time I finished, I crossed it and it was unbelievable. 524 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,280 I ran harder than I ever thought possible. 525 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,480 I ran really well the last 5K last maybe 9 K really. 526 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:01,440 But now I would get to a point I used to say pain gets to a point 527 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,480 it doesn't get any worse. So that was a choice you know 528 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,440 you get I mean it wouldn't even be painful, be kind of 529 00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:13,280 discomfort, you know, or maybe stomach or I would back off. 530 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,360 I didn't want to throw up. I mean, I did it early years, 531 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,040 but then I'd get to a point I'm like, you know what that is just 532 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,000 not taking good care of your body if you're out here throwing 533 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,280 up for hours or, you know, just can't take any calories on. 534 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,480 To me it was like in Tevis, you have things called the best 535 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:37,080 condition when the next day they take their hoses out and they 536 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,520 trot on the top ten and you could be 10th in the race, but 537 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:46,160 you might look the, you know, be as it sounds, best condition. 538 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,400 And to me, I, I guess coming from Western states with the 539 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:54,280 Tevis, I don't know why I always felt like there's a little bit 540 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:59,520 of that is like some pride in taking care of yourself, finding 541 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,640 out not to just drive yourself into the ground and slither in. 542 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,880 I mean, I want to enjoy the last 10 miles. 543 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,240 I also, you know, I just wanted to be present to me. 544 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,480 If you got to that point, you were so engulfed and just looked 545 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,080 that it wasn't, you weren't even present. 546 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,520 But maybe that's me and that's what's intriguing talking to 547 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,960 you. I'm asking, do you feel present? 548 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,480 I mean, I don't know. It's a mystery to me. 549 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:33,960 Yeah, I, I feel quite present. I I mean, I first I want to say 550 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,640 they should just trot every the top 10 finishers around after 551 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,640 coconut the next day and vote on. 552 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,320 Some things, you know, what they should do is make em eat all the 553 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,240 coke. You have to drink a Coke. 554 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:49,480 And I told Jamil that before the race next year or this year when 555 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,600 I'm I guess it's next year that they should have one for crew 556 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,800 and Pacers and it's a Coke and you have to eat drink so much 557 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,120 Coke and have a couple bites of Donuts every mile. 558 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:00,200 And so there's beer mile nonsense. 559 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:03,240 Let's get it real. Yeah, it can be like. 560 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:08,360 AI mean this should be an event. Yeah, run a mile the next day, 561 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,960 eat 12 Donuts, drink a Coke. Good luck. 562 00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:14,560 Or I think before the event for all the cream Pacers, you know, 563 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,480 have them vent for them, you know, the day before while you 564 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,720 guys are all being nervous and putting your numbers on whatever 565 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:25,680 piece of equipment. I mean, I don't know what you 566 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,200 guys do before 250. I don't sleep a lot. 567 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,440 But yeah, they could have that. I heard nothing from him. 568 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:38,120 I sent did send that to him. So, Jamila, is he a response on 569 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:44,920 this great idea? I couldn't even enter this ATY 570 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,160 right. I couldn't believe it. 571 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,600 I have cataracts so bad I'm basically blind. 572 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,960 I think I'm trying to so this friend like the rates of the 573 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,600 fees going up. I was like, OK, I guess I should 574 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,200 enter. I entered the 100K. 575 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,440 It's like one line below it. I'm like Oh no. 576 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,400 So then I just say forget it. I try and cancel it. 577 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,520 I see that it's pending on my credit card. 578 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,840 I'm like, oh, I got it. So now I I'm like dealing with 579 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:15,600 trying to get that covered. So I entered the 100K and the 580 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,920 6th day. What a moron. 581 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,240 And then I tell my friend who works at ultrasound and I said 582 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,000 maybe I should wear my glasses when I sign up for races next 583 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:26,840 time. What do you think? 584 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,640 Is this right at 2:00 in the morning after buying some? 585 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,480 Yeah, it's dead. Yeah, 2:00 in the morning after 586 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:37,080 buying some. Oh, I got a really good hat, a 587 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,040 couple good hats, so I was really happy. 588 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,800 Yeah, cone hat. Like a construction cone hat. 589 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,520 Wow, that's that's got to look good. 590 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,800 Do you have plans for that if? It's not windy, it's windy. 591 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,680 That thing's history. But yeah, it looked kind of fun. 592 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,760 For your night out in the town. So what? 593 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:01,720 What did the pain caver, if we're calling it that, feel like 594 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:06,280 for you at Comrades? Oh, it was intense. 595 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:11,920 I mean, and I was on fire. I was behind by I was having a 596 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,920 bad day, terrible day, just. And this woman, Maria Bach, he 597 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,120 did get pusted for steroids that you have to say, went flying by 598 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:23,960 me up this big hill. And I was just like, wow, man, 599 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,440 that's incredible. I used to beat her. 600 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,400 She looks a little different too, but whatever. 601 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:32,560 And she and I keep there. You get before the days of 602 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:34,360 Strava and all. I'm aging myself again. 603 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,480 They'd hand you an index card and tell you, well, I had a 604 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,600 little bottle with me with a goo with the rubber band and an 605 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:45,560 index card every 5K. I'm not kidding. 606 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,120 Little Anne the Princess, that's what Nike had for me. 607 00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:52,120 Awesome. It was the rugby team, the rugby 608 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:53,920 team. So all these big ass guys, you 609 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,239 just can go to a 5K, you can't repeat. 610 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,200 So I'd have to have that many people on my, they're called 611 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,240 seconding team. So I'm 2 minutes, 2 minutes, 2 612 00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:05,680 minutes behind her and there's a place on the downhill where you 613 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,240 just drop off the face of the earth. 614 00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:08,880 It's like a toll Plaza or something. 615 00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:14,120 And I got down to 15 K to go and I was so sick of two minutes. 616 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,760 I was like, I just want 1:45. I am just going to get on my 617 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,440 toes. I'm going to Sprint down this 618 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,520 hill. I don't care what it hurts like 619 00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,560 I want 145. And I just started sprinting 620 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,600 like a freaking maniac. I mean, I couldn't believe it. 621 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:35,040 I kept it up till the finish. When I entered the stadium, they 622 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,920 announced me as Maria Bach. Wow. 623 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,200 And the seconding team, you know, their Nike, they were all 624 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,960 disappointed. I was going to get second, which 625 00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:49,200 is unfortunate, but that's just how life is. 626 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,400 And when I they were so excited, I think they busted through 627 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,320 security. We had the best time. 628 00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,200 But honestly, I can believe I ran that. 629 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:04,360 But it hurts so bad. I couldn't believe it and it got 630 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,800 addicted. The more it hurt, the better I 631 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,960 felt. In a way I'm like, good, you're 632 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,680 trying harder. It was weird. 633 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:18,160 But never went back there. No, no, no, you have to be in 634 00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:19,680 the. I don't know how I got there 635 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,160 'cause I'm not that kind of person. 636 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,920 Yeah. It was, it was bizarre. 637 00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,640 Yeah. And I didn't give it a lot of 638 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,040 thought. I think now I would. 639 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,880 When I watch people like Courtney and and you and all 640 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,240 these other people and what Rachel did, they're just like 641 00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:40,680 how you handle it mentally. There's a lot to be learned 642 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:43,520 there, and also nutrition and a lot of other things. 643 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:48,880 But the mental aspect I find kind of interesting. 644 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,080 Yeah. Did you do anything special on 645 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,440 the mental side when you were near hated? 646 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,400 Tried to just, I was very shy. So my whole thing was how do I 647 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,880 not have to talk to anyone before the race? 648 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,720 You'd wear a disguise. I should have. 649 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,600 A mustache. Now that's what I do. 650 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:15,320 It looks really well. Yeah, yeah, you just disguise. 651 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:20,280 Yourself, except, except honestly, a couple months ago I 652 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,000 was walking to get my hair cut, which I do have to do 653 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,400 occasionally to a new place with my Walker. 654 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,320 And OK, it's a day after Saint Patty's Day. 655 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,920 I had a procedure done that day on Saint Patty's Day, so I 656 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,240 couldn't. Someone gave me the Saint 657 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:34,000 Patty's hat. So I'm like, I'm gonna wear this 658 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:39,440 to the hairdresser place. Someone saw that and thought I 659 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,600 was some friggin old woman walking around Auburn with a 660 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,000 didn't know today was not Saint Patty's Day, so they called the 661 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,240 cops. I am not kidding. 662 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,160 I get honestly, I arrive with my Walker to this place I've never 663 00:37:55,160 --> 00:38:00,440 been before, Hair place, two cop cars with sirens and everything. 664 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,360 4 cops jump out. Are you under distress, ma'am? 665 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,920 I'm like, I and the people in the hairdresser place jump out 666 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,800 and they're like, who are you? And I'm like, if I could have 667 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,720 just disappeared, believe me, I would have. 668 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,240 I couldn't believe it. And they're acting like, do you 669 00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:20,320 know what day it is? And I'm like, yeah, now, like, 670 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,200 you know, today isn't Saint Patty's Day. 671 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,320 I'm like, yeah, it was yesterday. 672 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,520 It was so wild. I was so embarrassed. 673 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:34,800 I couldn't believe it. So after I get my hair done, I 674 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,800 say I'm going to go the because it's near there, a police 675 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,960 station and just say should not wear hats and funny hats in 676 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,280 Auburn. Honestly, this cop who looks 677 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,720 like 20 years old, he was there. Yeah, like a child says that's 678 00:38:47,720 --> 00:38:49,680 OK. And you can wear whatever hat 679 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,360 you want to in Auburn. Just be you. 680 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,240 He said that just be you. And I was thinking my life. 681 00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:03,360 Wow, who am I? I could not believe it. 682 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:07,560 It was hysterical, I thought. Yeah, just. 683 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,360 And also a little frightening, like, well, what if they did get 684 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,680 out the butterfly net and put me in like, I don't know where? 685 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,840 Yeah, we might have never heard from you again. 686 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:21,920 It could happen. Yeah, don't celebrate a holiday 687 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:23,560 the day after, man. Cops again. 688 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:28,360 Oh, no Lot going on in Auburn. Oh man. 689 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,320 Would you hide from me attention or like what? 690 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,920 How would you deal with the attention after winning or doing 691 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:36,760 well at these races over the years? 692 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,000 Would you try to get out of there as quick as you could or 693 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,040 did you have to abrasive for sponsor obligations? 694 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,160 I guess it's something in between. 695 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:52,840 I guess I tolerate it as much as I, I was very fortunate in that 696 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,400 my husband at time was really good at that kind of stuff so I 697 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,320 could hide behind him and he, I mean, that sounds horrible. 698 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,560 It didn't matter that he was my husband or not. 699 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:08,080 There was just someone in my corner and he enjoyed it, it 700 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:13,280 seemed like. So it was like kind of, we were 701 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,560 a team. It wasn't like husband and wife 702 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:20,800 or wife and husband, whatever. We were just a team doing 703 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:24,040 something. That's why I find all this joy 704 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,440 and like what Courtney and all these other people are doing 705 00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,360 that. Women are doing when they have 706 00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:30,440 the support behind them because it's not easy. 707 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,880 I mean especially these women have kids and everything. 708 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,280 Hats off. Like more admiration than you 709 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,160 can imagine. And it's hard enough in a lot of 710 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:44,080 ways to be a female and have the time to fit it in. 711 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:46,240 I mean it would be nice if it wasn't. 712 00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:48,880 It was equal 5050 all the time with everything. 713 00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,640 But that's just my perspective being a female. 714 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,320 And also I'm pre title 9 so I know I'm a little wacky. 715 00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:58,680 We're all a little lucky if we're in this sport. 716 00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,960 But I don't know, it's just different. 717 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:07,640 So how was 45 did so like your fiance drop you off and just 718 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,120 pick you up and go, OK, I'll see you when you're done. 719 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,120 I mean, I guess you track like your little dot she could follow 720 00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:16,720 you on. Did you do in reach? 721 00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:20,120 How did? Yeah, ask all the any question 722 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,760 you want. Yeah, basically had the dot and 723 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,400 then we could text or talk a long way too. 724 00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:32,000 So wasn't. Now if I was rule maker, no 725 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,080 texting because if you really trying to compare it to the old 726 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:36,800 ages, we didn't have none of that. 727 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,040 Yeah, I mean. I'm just joking, you know? 728 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,880 You do realize I'm just kidding? Yeah, yeah. 729 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:49,040 I realized you were sending smoke signals to your your 730 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,280 fellow competitors. I know it back in your day. 731 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,360 He never knew where anyone was. It was pretty funny. 732 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,800 Wow. Yeah, I took the inreach when I 733 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,280 went to Bhutan and I did all my coaching clients from that. 734 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,520 It was crazy. But yeah, it's a great device. 735 00:42:07,720 --> 00:42:09,920 Yeah, I had the real big one. I don't have the mini. 736 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:12,640 He probably have a mini. I borrowed a mini. 737 00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:17,480 I'm cheap, so yeah. Where do you live? 738 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:25,040 I live in Bozeman, Mt. Bozeman Oh, oh, do you know 739 00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:26,680 Aaron Warnham? He's a doctor there. 740 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:29,840 No, I don't. My circles don't have a lot of 741 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,280 doctors in them. Oh, if you ever want to, he did 742 00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:36,520 Western States when he was like, he was the youngest finisher 743 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,160 when I met him. He would be a great person to 744 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,000 have on your podcast. I'm not kidding. 745 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:44,560 One of the most interesting people I've ever met in my life. 746 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,840 And he lives there in Bozeman. Oh wow, what was his name again? 747 00:42:48,240 --> 00:42:50,280 Aaron Warnham. OK. 748 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:52,480 Yeah. I. 749 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,960 I could not he he he was the one that introduced me to the 750 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,600 Western States Trail. Wow. 751 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,120 I I after I ran AR50I swore off ultras because they were stupid, 752 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,480 of course, and kind of dumb and too far. 753 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,680 I was going to become a marathoner and I met this guy 754 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:17,080 Aaron, and he was from Berkeley too, and he took me kept for ARS 755 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:19,680 in April, kept saying you go to get on the 1st 30 miles of 756 00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:21,120 Western states. What do you see this? 757 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,520 And I'm like, no. And we'd go back and forth. 758 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,320 So finally Labor Day had an extra day. 759 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:30,080 And so I, he took me on the 1st 30 miles. 760 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:31,680 As a matter of fact, I dropped him. 761 00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:33,080 I can't believe I didn't get lost. 762 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,160 I was having so much fun. I just took off, fell in love 763 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:38,680 with the course and it was all because of Aaron. 764 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:44,800 And also he taught me a lot. And him and Kathy Donofrio, 765 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,160 which people probably never heard of before, he won states 766 00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:52,880 twice when she was very young, like 21 or something. 767 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:54,760 There are a lot of great stories. 768 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,360 I especially people like her. I wish things wouldn't get 769 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,280 forgotten. He went to medical school, 770 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,720 became a doctor, moved to Alaska, help there. 771 00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:11,520 He did a lot of wonderful things and I think he's head of medical 772 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,040 establishment there in Bozeman. There's a lot with Native 773 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,200 Americans. That's why he was in Alaska. 774 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:23,840 He was doing stuff with he got into a public health and MD 775 00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,760 program at, at Berkeley. He didn't even graduate. 776 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,080 He got his GHGD. He's just like one of these 777 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:37,920 people who once it he decided that he he met Jim Howard. 778 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,240 He was a climber. They're just so many good 779 00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:43,080 stories, aren't there? Yeah, yeah. 780 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,120 What? What more? 781 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,840 What other fascinating people that people won't know about you 782 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,680 do you have in your quiver here? Oh, that would be a good one, 783 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,000 just 'cause you're in Bozeman. Yeah, yeah. 784 00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,440 So if you hadn't run those first 30 miles, you might never have 785 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,400 run another ultra. That's probably true. 786 00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,640 Wow, think of that sliding doors moment. 787 00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,480 Well, that in that 30 miles, I also decided I wasn't going to 788 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,240 get married. I was pretty much engaged at 789 00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:15,000 that time. And I also, in that first 30 790 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,160 miles, decided I wasn't going to apply to get a PhD in 791 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,880 developmental biology, which is where I was working at the time 792 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:27,120 at Cal at Berkeley. And I cannot, I, I'm not. 793 00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,040 When I look back, I cannot believe that really happened. 794 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:35,560 But it's like yesterday. That 30 miles was so magical and 795 00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,240 influence. I, I remember falling on the 796 00:45:38,240 --> 00:45:45,560 course that I just felt like that the course accepted me and 797 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,800 I could talk to it in a way, 'cause I was asking questions 798 00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,040 like, should I get married? No, I don't think that's a good 799 00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,320 idea. And I was like, well, what am I 800 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:58,360 going to do with my life? Well, life's a mystery and look, 801 00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:05,600 you've run out of water. I've just dive, just dove my 802 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:10,000 English is so bad into Duncan Creek and just drank like a with 803 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:14,000 my mouth wide open and it, it was on. 804 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,880 I mean, I ran with Aaron to what used to be Hodgkin's cabin, 805 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:19,080 which is like mile aid or there was water there. 806 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:22,320 And then he's like, don't take the Jim King cut off 'cause 807 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:24,480 that's where Jim King got lost. For people who don't know the 808 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,760 history of it. And he took a right hand turn 809 00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,480 going down into Red Star. And so he's just saying we'll do 810 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,240 this, this and this. You won't get lost. 811 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,880 And I just took off like an idiot. 812 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:38,960 I mean, there wasn't anyone out there. 813 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:44,400 I mean, it was just insane. You didn't have your paper map 814 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,240 to guide you a lot. I didn't paper map, I was 815 00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:49,600 following Aaron Aaron, but he wasn't in that great of shape 816 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:50,960 'cause he was trying to get into. 817 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,240 He had decided he wanted to become a doctor. 818 00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,960 Oh that's a good one. He decided to become a doctor 819 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:58,840 because he went with Jim Howard cause Jim Howard was having knee 820 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:04,680 problems to meet a a surgeon and he hadn't graduated. 821 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:09,560 I don't think he had got his GED then and he liked the surgeon so 822 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:11,600 much and just thought it was great what he did for Jim. 823 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:13,600 He decided he was going to be a doctor and became one. 824 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,640 If that's not the most amazing story. 825 00:47:18,720 --> 00:47:22,240 Yeah, I mean, I think every story you're telling right now 826 00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:27,640 is the most amazing story I. Don't know what you hate for 827 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:34,120 food today, but no, it's life. If you get old enough, that's 828 00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:35,560 the truth. You have stories. 829 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:40,120 Yeah, totally. So so this run goes really well 830 00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:42,920 and you decide to change the entire direction of your life. 831 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,080 Well, yeah, I don't know. I wasn't timing it or anything. 832 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,600 I just fell in love with it. I was like, man, this is like 833 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,040 backpacking. So I did a lot of backpacking, 834 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,720 but we're going to go have pizza now and then I'm going to go 835 00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:55,160 home. I get to take a shower and go to 836 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,560 sleep in my bed and I can do that distance, which would take 837 00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:02,720 me like 3 days, maybe 2 if I pushed it. 838 00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:07,440 And I do it in like a cup, you know, 7 hours, 5 hours, 839 00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,080 whatever. Yeah. 840 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,360 The whole day it was like, who wouldn't fall? 841 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:15,520 And it was so beautiful. Yeah, I love the Sierras. 842 00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,600 I love mountains. Oh, they're my favorite mountain 843 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,360 range. I've spent so much time. 844 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:22,760 They're like where I grew up because I hiked the Pacific 845 00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,960 restaurant when I was 20 and I had to learn real lessons in 846 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:31,080 life like budgeting and buying enough food and surviving out 847 00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:35,960 there. Yeah, I mean, so you were 20 848 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:39,920 when you first did it. Yeah, Yep, 20 years old. 849 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:44,280 I had the similar moment I was going to school for to become an 850 00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,400 engineer and I backpacked the Pacific Crest Trail and 851 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,000 somewhere in the Sierras, the Sierra Nevada. 852 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,840 As I had this group of friends that I, it was like the first 853 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,960 true group of friends where we were all different but really 854 00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:59,480 cared about each other. And it was just like the 855 00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,400 outdoors is magical. I need to do more of this and 856 00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:10,720 less learning about engineering. Yeah, you can almost touch it. 857 00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:16,120 It's so this it's amazing. Yeah, it's. 858 00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:19,640 And then what? What did you decide to do with 859 00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,840 your life after that one run was. 860 00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:24,840 Well, that was a problem. OK. 861 00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,200 'Cause it's called money and responsibility and just I took 862 00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:30,840 some other jobs for quite a while. 863 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,360 I ended up at Community College, interestingly, where my mom took 864 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,880 her first job and I then was pulled. 865 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,560 Should I? My mom had a my mom get a my 866 00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:43,600 mom, of course, I think my mom is the most amazing person ever. 867 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:49,000 She was, she got a PhD in 1959 in zoology from UC Berkeley. 868 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:54,520 She was the only woman in her class and she dedicated her life 869 00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:56,600 to teaching at Community College. 870 00:49:56,600 --> 00:50:01,080 But anyway, her first job was at this place, Contra Costa 871 00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:03,760 Community College. So I saw a job opening there and 872 00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:08,880 I worked in a lab and I think it taught maybe some microbiology 873 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,240 lab classes. Did that for quite a while and 874 00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:14,560 then decided I was going to go to PT school maybe. 875 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:21,040 And then I got in to physical therapy school in my early 30s. 876 00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:27,400 But I had a Nike contract and the school I got into is 877 00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:28,040 private. Anyway. 878 00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:34,840 It's kind of a decision we made was just go with it. 879 00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,200 Yeah. Would I do it again? 880 00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:41,120 Probably not. I'd probably go to PT school, 881 00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,800 but that was a decision I made. Yeah. 882 00:50:45,720 --> 00:50:50,560 Did it feel like you were giving up being APT by just going with 883 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:53,560 it in the moment? Yeah, a little bit. 884 00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:58,400 And also just the stability and having something else not being 885 00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,840 consumed by just one thing. Yeah. 886 00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,040 And I don't look, I don't have review mirrors in my life. 887 00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:09,840 But I mean, it is one of the things probably, like I said, if 888 00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:13,040 I was mentoring someone in my situation, I was going through 889 00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:17,800 that situation, I'd be like, no, especially then where there are 890 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:20,440 probably, maybe I'm hoping more opportunities now. 891 00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,040 But anyway, it's a choice I made. 892 00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:27,680 And like I said, I try not to be any regretful person. 893 00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:31,160 So I'm just go forward. Yeah, What was your Nike 894 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:36,160 contract like? Well, they really like me to go 895 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:43,000 to Comrades, but I didn't. I always wore Nikes. 896 00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,000 I love Nike. I don't know when Steve P von 897 00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,600 Dyne died. I mean, when I was in high 898 00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:48,880 school, that's all that was there. 899 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:51,760 And plus they were just such a great story. 900 00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:57,800 But my, I wasn't married at the time, but he was personally, I 901 00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,520 ended up marrying, said hey, you should write to Nike after I ran 902 00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:05,680 this AR50 I'm like, why would they do anything for me anyway? 903 00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:07,800 He was bugging, bugging, bugging, bugging persistent. 904 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:12,560 I'm a typewriter agent again. I wrote Nike and asked him, you 905 00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:16,000 know, told him a little bit about my life and I got like 6 906 00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,920 pairs of shoes. I could not believe someone 907 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,960 reminded me, remembered my name from high school or something. 908 00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:24,640 I couldn't believe it. So it allowed me to do things I 909 00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:29,760 wanted. I mean, how could that not be 910 00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:34,200 like incredible? I couldn't believe that I loved 911 00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:36,600 it that much. I mean, I really loved my 912 00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:38,960 friends, my group that I ran with. 913 00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:41,760 It was like a lifestyle. I mean, now you have these 914 00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:45,120 dirtbaggers and everything. But then had AVW van. 915 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,720 We camped on the weekends. I mean, it just there were a 916 00:52:48,720 --> 00:52:50,840 group of people camp and training on the trails. 917 00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:55,840 It just became a lifestyle and I just like pinched myself and go. 918 00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,440 I cannot believe my life turned out this great. 919 00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:04,440 Yeah, and it it seems like such a like a different or a 920 00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,600 different style community than where you'd like get to show up 921 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:10,960 at these events and see all your same friends at them too, 922 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:13,160 camping up and that or and catching up and stuff. 923 00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:18,120 Well, yeah, I mean, it's people ask me, you know, like, what 924 00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:20,600 about the changes? But yeah, it's totally 925 00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,000 different. I mean, I'm grateful that I had 926 00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,840 what I had. I mean, probably if I was living 927 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,000 life now, I'd probably go, how did those dinosaurs survive? 928 00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:33,360 But I, all my friends did Western states because everyone 929 00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,080 could get in, you know, either that or they were crewing or 930 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:41,960 they were pacing or, and you and you had to do volunteer hours. 931 00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:44,520 There was just kind of a different vibe, different kind 932 00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,440 of community, and you didn't really give it a lot of thought 933 00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:49,680 because that's who I was surrounded with. 934 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,280 Yeah. And I loved them. 935 00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:56,160 I mean, they're, they're still my best friends from 1985. 936 00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,320 Wow, 20 years of friendship over now. 937 00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:02,920 Wow. I mean, they will. 938 00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,040 I'd do anything for them and they do anything for me. 939 00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,480 And they're not, I'm not talking, you know, elite 940 00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:09,360 runners. That's what was so wonderful 941 00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,080 about it. We had a really eclectic group 942 00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:18,520 of people we ran with every Wednesday night and run and it's 943 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:21,040 like it. We became a family and they are 944 00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:22,600 family. They're my family. 945 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:26,720 Yeah. And it's all because of Ultra. 946 00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:28,880 You, you spend that. I mean, you've got to know. 947 00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:31,760 Yeah. And then you spend that many 948 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:36,200 hours on the trail with anyone but the you're going to become 949 00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:38,800 friends. And the oddest people become 950 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:43,320 best friends. Yeah, that's where all my best 951 00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,240 friends have been made on the trails. 952 00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,440 And the unique thing and the hard thing today is just like 953 00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:53,120 that story of dinner and a videographer showing up is it 954 00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:57,120 feels like so much is captured or someone has their phone out 955 00:54:57,120 --> 00:54:59,760 when that feels like it takes away from the experience. 956 00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:02,880 I didn't make all my friends when we were like videoing each 957 00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,720 other. It is a different and I was 16 958 00:55:05,720 --> 00:55:10,240 years ago, so 15 years ago. It's different in even my time 959 00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:12,760 in this trail world and community. 960 00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,280 Well, you're doing a good job crossing over, I'll tell you 961 00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:19,800 that. It's it's been fun to follow 962 00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:24,480 these kind of things like what was it all the I don't even know 963 00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:27,240 these. I just see people online and my 964 00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:30,800 little bit of following like on the Arizona trail with string 965 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:34,200 Bean and whatever the other guy was and they and they started 966 00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:40,560 different directions and. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a little 967 00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,000 different, a little more showy than it probably was in your 968 00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,520 day. Yeah, but it's, and then you 969 00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,920 have Killian or whatever going and running like every mountain 970 00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:52,120 molehill between here and, I don't know, Norway. 971 00:55:56,720 --> 00:55:59,760 So another. It's like, why are these people 972 00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,560 come up with these ideas? Yeah, people are very creative 973 00:56:03,560 --> 00:56:06,160 these days and feels like for their adventures. 974 00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:12,880 What was it like being a woman in the sport back 20 years ago? 975 00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:14,880 Was it was it a lot, was it difficult? 976 00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:19,680 Was it really a lot different? Well, I don't know how it is for 977 00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:21,880 women now 'cause I just do my own thing. 978 00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:27,120 I think being it was easily to be misunderstood. 979 00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:33,240 I think I still am in a lot of ways, 'cause I don't really 980 00:56:33,240 --> 00:56:37,600 believe in this. Men are are the goal posts. 981 00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:40,920 I never did. I didn't think they were the 982 00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:44,320 gold standard. And I understand why there was 983 00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:48,400 all this push to to say, hey, women do better and endurance 984 00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:54,280 and men like that isn't. I know what I'm saying. 985 00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:58,080 People don't want to hear. But I would look at my street 986 00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:02,960 and I'd see my neighbor's kids be playing brother and sister 987 00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:05,800 and I'd say, I hope her mom isn't saying you have to do 988 00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:07,560 better than your brother to feel better. 989 00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,760 I, I just really is something that just goes up my spine. 990 00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:18,400 It's like, like I said, I worked really hard through Title 9 and 991 00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:24,040 all that just to be able to have a girls team just for our own to 992 00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:28,800 see what we could do as individuals, not against anyone 993 00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:32,200 else. I mean, I guess that's maybe 994 00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:35,000 where it came from because I ran when I ran the first three years 995 00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:36,520 in high school and cross country. 996 00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:41,800 I ran on the boys team and I never, I just, I just ran. 997 00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:46,800 I compared myself against myself and they accepted me if I worked 998 00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:49,720 hard. There were a couple girls on the 999 00:57:49,720 --> 00:57:51,960 team, maybe three of us. We didn't even have a full team 1000 00:57:51,960 --> 00:57:53,760 my senior year when they were allowed. 1001 00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:57,280 But then they said girls could only run half the distance that 1002 00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,360 the senior boys were. So then I'd run on senior boys 1003 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:02,920 varsity team so I could run 3 miles and not 1 1/2. 1004 00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:04,560 And then the other coaches would get mad. 1005 00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:07,720 They say, we push so hard for you to get women's right and 1006 00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,960 like girls rights. I'm like, then make it 3 miles. 1007 00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:15,760 But you know, those are little, I don't know, a little different 1008 00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,200 wars or, you know, battles that don't really. 1009 00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:26,000 It's just, I don't know, a different perspective. 1010 00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:29,480 I just want people to feel good about themselves and not always 1011 00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,240 be so judgmental. Yeah. 1012 00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,920 And I just honestly, people were like, why did you run or do all 1013 00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:39,840 that? Like I said, it was because all 1014 00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,480 my friends were doing it wasn't because I was good at it. 1015 00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:46,240 But then you became good at it, or you were good at it. 1016 00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:48,280 You know, I never looked at it that way. 1017 00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,840 I mean, I just looked at if my friends finished. 1018 00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,080 That was great. I mean, I was more excited. 1019 00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:54,880 I mean, I don't know if you felt that. 1020 00:58:55,200 --> 00:59:01,640 I've gotten more warmth and feeling of gratitude and help 1021 00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:08,120 and just pride when some of the people I've coached or my 1022 00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,920 friends that I've crewed or paced have finished. 1023 00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,240 That feeling isn't the same as winning. 1024 00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:18,120 That's better to me. I agree, I had an athlete win a 1025 00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:22,320 race over the weekend and I am over the moon for for him and 1026 00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,760 his finish. I think it's so rewarding to be 1027 00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:28,760 a part of someone. Yeah, rewarding, I guess is. 1028 00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:35,680 Yeah. So that's, I guess that's 1029 00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:37,240 something I've learned in life, but. 1030 00:59:39,440 --> 00:59:43,760 Did you feel like you didn't get the same attention, I guess, as 1031 00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:48,160 the men too, through through kind of the 90s and early 2000s? 1032 00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:50,960 No, I didn't look at it that way. 1033 00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,640 I was kind of embarrassed about the attention I did get. 1034 00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:55,440 I know that it did 'cause strife. 1035 00:59:55,720 --> 01:00:01,120 I mean, there were guys that really not always would say nice 1036 01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,360 things along with the lens, you know? 1037 01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:07,640 And you got it easy, 'cause she's got a scholarship, you 1038 01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:10,560 know, she got Nike sponsorship, so. 1039 01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,320 She's not equal to us. Of course it's going to run 1040 01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:15,640 better. You know, things like, you know, 1041 01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:19,080 just nasty little jab things to me anyway. 1042 01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:25,720 But people are human and I would just say try not, you know, go 1043 01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:30,160 home and hide, go under a rock and feel bad about myself 'cause 1044 01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:32,120 then I feel, well, maybe they have some, right? 1045 01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,280 Maybe that's true. You know, it's like, yeah, you 1046 01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:38,200 don't want that in your head. So mostly, to be quite honest, 1047 01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:43,080 everyone was incredibly supportive and I'm grateful. 1048 01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:46,680 Yeah. I mean, you can always look for 1049 01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:51,320 some niche thing that didn't work out right, or someone who 1050 01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,040 might have said something and misunderstood things, but 1051 01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:59,880 honestly, it was unbelievable. Yeah, big time. 1052 01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:04,560 What the other thing before I keep you forever, but what is 1053 01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,480 it? How has it been with like aging? 1054 01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:09,880 Has that been a difficult processes? 1055 01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:13,760 Oh. It's not I have a chronic 1056 01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:15,560 disease. I have rheumatoid arthritis. 1057 01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:19,840 I got I something was going on for a while, but then one day I 1058 01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:24,040 just woke up in 2017 and honestly, I couldn't move. 1059 01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,360 I was in so much pain. I I had to have a friend 1060 01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:30,880 basically carrying me to the car and to the doctor's office. 1061 01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:35,960 Took a year to get diagnosed. It's not it's it's there are a 1062 01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:39,440 lot worse things in this world to get, but it's not fun. 1063 01:01:40,240 --> 01:01:45,920 And trying to live with that gracefully, that's my goal. 1064 01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,760 Yeah. And I when I first was, when I 1065 01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:53,200 first was diagnosed with it, I thought my life was over. 1066 01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:55,600 I really did. I thought man. 1067 01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:03,760 And now this year I, I guess aty made me realize I still can have 1068 01:02:03,760 --> 01:02:07,080 goals. My life is not over and I just 1069 01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:10,000 want people to know with chronic diseases, don't give up. 1070 01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:16,040 It's a different kind of ultra. But I want to climb Akankagwa. 1071 01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:19,680 I know it's crazy. I just broke my hip. 1072 01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:24,600 I'm hopefully on the mend. I didn't want to get surgery 1073 01:02:25,160 --> 01:02:28,920 because if I did, the doctor, the surgeon said where he put 1074 01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:32,120 the rods in, which would have been a lot less painful than 1075 01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:35,120 when I went through. I'd feel it every step of the 1076 01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:37,160 way downhill. And I was like, well, how am I 1077 01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:40,840 going to do Akan Kagua that way? It might be a pipe dream, but 1078 01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:44,280 I'm taking it really seriously. I've hired a climbing coach. 1079 01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:45,720 I've never had a coach before. Yeah. 1080 01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:48,560 And he also will organize stuff. He's a real deal. 1081 01:02:48,560 --> 01:02:50,840 Summit, summit, summit, summit kind of guy. 1082 01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:54,800 That's yeah, that's awesome. Even hearing you talk about 1083 01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,840 across the years of still doing that, the math out there having 1084 01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:03,800 the goals and yeah, I think that it's a huge take away and and 1085 01:03:03,800 --> 01:03:05,600 lesson that the goals never have to stop. 1086 01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:10,160 Well, I mean, everyone's different. 1087 01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:17,360 I'm very goal oriented and I flounder if I don't have goals. 1088 01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:21,520 But I guess they're people who that's their space. 1089 01:03:21,520 --> 01:03:25,160 But for me, it's bringing me a lot of pleasure. 1090 01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:30,200 And I have to say, I haven't been this excited so silly since 1091 01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:33,720 the first day I signed up for Western States when I sent in my 1092 01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:37,600 hard copy. That's so cool man. 1093 01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:40,360 If only you could figure out how to sign up for the right across 1094 01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:46,480 the years. I know, oh, I'm worried about if 1095 01:03:46,480 --> 01:03:50,160 I enter any other races, I'll be like, I learned my lesson on 1096 01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:51,000 that one. I couldn't. 1097 01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:55,160 I was so embarrassed. And then this Leslie, my friend 1098 01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:57,400 who's been texting me, we've been going back and forth on 1099 01:03:57,400 --> 01:03:59,040 this. She did an AD 12. 1100 01:03:59,840 --> 01:04:02,000 I said I messed up. She's like, you are going to 1101 01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:03,480 take care of this or something like that. 1102 01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:05,840 And it's like in the middle of the night we're like texting 1103 01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:10,200 like 2 old ladies. Like, are you going to enter? 1104 01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,600 I'm like, I don't know. It's kind of pricey. 1105 01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:14,960 Plus it's a long way. She's like, yeah, it's a long. 1106 01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:17,760 I mean, we just went back and forth on this for days. 1107 01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:22,240 It was hysterical. My kind of comedy. 1108 01:04:22,640 --> 01:04:24,280 And then I think we, but I don't even know. 1109 01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:27,280 I'm hoping she entered. She'd better tell her end of the 1110 01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:30,320 bargain. Yeah, no kidding. 1111 01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,520 She had knee surgery, so she's on the mend too. 1112 01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,600 Yeah, ma'am. So what kind of stuff makes you 1113 01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:39,760 laugh these days? Where? 1114 01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:41,920 What is the end into on the Internet? 1115 01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:44,000 What do you like watching or listening to? 1116 01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:49,040 You know, I've been so busy, I've been working on my house 1117 01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:55,520 that my friends are the things. I really just enjoy the 1118 01:04:55,520 --> 01:05:00,640 friendships I have. And it seems like with every 1119 01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:03,640 good conversation I have these days, there's a lot of laughter. 1120 01:05:03,640 --> 01:05:05,840 I'm so blessed. Yeah. 1121 01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:10,000 I ran, I met up with Emma Davies in the land Park. 1122 01:05:10,280 --> 01:05:14,400 They ran in the old days when I did or whatever ancient history 1123 01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:19,360 of Western States and honestly we just laughed. 1124 01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:21,320 It was great. I can't even tell you what we 1125 01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:25,720 just the old days or I mean Lu Ann found has found 3 diamond 1126 01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:26,480 rings. I mean him. 1127 01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:30,200 People like engagement rings and I mean just the craziest things 1128 01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:33,120 you know about people. But it just made us laugh. 1129 01:05:33,120 --> 01:05:37,160 And you know, getting old is funny if you look. 1130 01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:42,080 I mean, he better either laugh or cry, I'll tell you that. 1131 01:05:43,240 --> 01:05:46,040 The two of me two ways to take everything would laugh or cry. 1132 01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:51,240 My friend has a mother who's 110. 1133 01:05:51,240 --> 01:05:54,600 OK, I'm not kidding. And she says her goal in life is 1134 01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:56,800 either to annoy or make people laugh. 1135 01:05:57,480 --> 01:06:00,720 And I'm like, that's and tracing in a nutshell. 1136 01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:07,400 I love it. Yeah, and I didn't know what to 1137 01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:10,280 get her for under 10. So I have this like singing 1138 01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:14,880 practice thing. I wasn't sure she'd get it and 1139 01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,040 she loved it. It repeats what you say. 1140 01:06:17,040 --> 01:06:18,520 I don't know if you've seen them on Amazon. 1141 01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:23,200 Anyway, either it'll sing songs and it dances and it lights up, 1142 01:06:23,520 --> 01:06:27,520 or it repeats what you say. Wow, that's. 1143 01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:31,640 For noise in the room, but I don't know, I just thought if 1144 01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:33,640 you're 110 that might be kind of fun. 1145 01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:35,960 Yeah, that's the the age-old question. 1146 01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:38,440 That's why you're on the line. We're asking what to get people 1147 01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:43,880 when they turn 110. Although I have to say some of 1148 01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,560 the other ones, like maybe if someone likes pandas there's a 1149 01:06:46,560 --> 01:06:50,240 singing panda too. Wow, there's whatever your 1150 01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:51,600 favorite animal. There's a singing. 1151 01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:56,000 Oh, it's, it's horrible. And then I keep giving him away, 1152 01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:59,200 'cause some kid will come up and like, oh, I like that lion. 1153 01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:01,080 I'm like, here you go. And I'm like, oh God, they're 1154 01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:02,680 just 30 more dollars. I'm just kidding. 1155 01:07:06,160 --> 01:07:08,240 The joy. It's priceless. 1156 01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:13,120 I'm. Not kidding, it is just the joy 1157 01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:17,000 of giving. I'm I'm with you. 1158 01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:21,280 And also just genuine laughter carries even more weight these 1159 01:07:21,280 --> 01:07:23,240 days. I think it's just so fun to get 1160 01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:25,680 someone to genuinely laugh at something to do. 1161 01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:27,960 Well, what were there any points? 1162 01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:31,360 When you're doing all these FKTS or whatever they're called, do 1163 01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:34,760 you just find yourself just laughing like it's? 1164 01:07:34,920 --> 01:07:40,960 Not, yeah, like if I like falling down or something, or 1165 01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:43,240 sometimes I'll be talking to myself and come around the 1166 01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:46,600 corner and there's some family or something walking down the 1167 01:07:46,600 --> 01:07:48,720 trail and it's like just laughing to myself. 1168 01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:52,280 Like I sound like I'm just, I've, I'm off my rocker out here 1169 01:07:52,680 --> 01:07:55,880 and just talking to myself. Been in the woods for 40 days 1170 01:07:55,880 --> 01:07:59,120 and this family's like, OK, stand closer, kids. 1171 01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:07,640 Yeah, I think. I think Alda's like really pure 1172 01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:12,480 or maybe just intense experiences are, I don't know, 1173 01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:16,640 so fun and unique and they just forged such strong friendships 1174 01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:18,080 and bonds too. But. 1175 01:08:18,279 --> 01:08:20,399 And emotions. I don't know about you. 1176 01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:24,840 I get very emotional. Yeah, it's the what drew me to 1177 01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:29,160 these really hard things is it was this way to unencumbered 1178 01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:33,479 feel all these really strong emotions without really being 1179 01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:36,720 scared of what other people were judging me for and stuff. 1180 01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:40,520 Because high school, I was so nervous of people seeing the the 1181 01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:44,760 real me that it took being out on the trails to really let 1182 01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:48,200 loose and it let myself be who I actually want to be. 1183 01:08:50,279 --> 01:08:53,560 How did you do the crossover from the hiking to the running? 1184 01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:59,760 That is a good question. I think as the FKTS got shorter 1185 01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:02,760 the they became a lot closer to to running. 1186 01:09:03,399 --> 01:09:05,000 Why? Didn't they get shorter? 1187 01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:07,680 Is it a time commitment or what? I don't know. 1188 01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:12,120 I so I just started. I did some 7-8 thousand mile 1189 01:09:12,120 --> 01:09:17,800 adventures in my mid 20s and then I did Nolan's 14. 1190 01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:19,760 I did the Arizona Trail, then the John. 1191 01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:24,200 Merrick, not Nolan's 15. Yeah, yeah. 1192 01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:26,319 And then so eventually it was just like, well, this is 1193 01:09:26,319 --> 01:09:29,720 basically the length of a ultra marathon, why don't I sign up 1194 01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:32,080 for one of these? And my first one was Barkley, 1195 01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:39,479 actually, so. I got to meet the famous Lazarus 1196 01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:42,120 Lake. I got some secondhand smoke for 1197 01:09:42,120 --> 01:09:42,800 him. I was just. 1198 01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:46,240 Was he, did he give you any whiskey or anything he drinks? 1199 01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:49,399 He didn't, but I'm sure he would have if I asked. 1200 01:09:50,680 --> 01:09:54,080 I'm not sure, he probably isn't. I just when he first put on our 1201 01:09:54,080 --> 01:09:56,440 style one out there and I do believe he might have been 1202 01:09:56,440 --> 01:09:58,000 partaking but I'm not sure of me. 1203 01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:00,440 It was my imagination, but he definitely was smoking. 1204 01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:03,760 I was so honored. He walked a mile with me. 1205 01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:07,400 I was like I was on heaven. Yeah. 1206 01:10:07,400 --> 01:10:10,720 And so I don't know, I just sort of fell into it. 1207 01:10:10,720 --> 01:10:14,880 And you know, when you're doing FKTS alone, you're not getting a 1208 01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:17,240 lot of community. So I think the running side, the 1209 01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,720 community aspect really was addicting. 1210 01:10:22,240 --> 01:10:26,400 Probably, I don't know, can't say, but I I feel that way with 1211 01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:28,440 the timed events because it's very social. 1212 01:10:28,840 --> 01:10:32,960 Yeah, totally. Well, thanks so much for for 1213 01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:35,240 joining. I've already spent so much of 1214 01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:37,120 your time. I just really appreciate. 1215 01:10:37,360 --> 01:10:41,360 Oh, I, I have so many questions asked you, but maybe sometime if 1216 01:10:41,360 --> 01:10:46,240 you're out or Crosswell, ask all the questions I've dying to ask 1217 01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:48,440 about all this stuff. I find it really fascinating. 1218 01:10:48,440 --> 01:10:50,320 Thanks for having me. Yeah. 1219 01:10:51,480 --> 01:10:56,360 Hopefully I'm not an easy person to do an interview with or doc 1220 01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:58,280 or whatever this is a conversation with. 1221 01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:02,080 You're plenty easy. I just I, I really love the 1222 01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:05,560 mindset and leaning in and what we have in common is, you know, 1223 01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:07,360 the world needs a little more laughter. 1224 01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:10,480 So if it's a singing cactus, whatever it may be, dip to 1225 01:11:10,480 --> 01:11:13,120 laughter there. Thank. 1226 01:11:15,200 --> 01:11:17,120 Thank you for listening to the show. 1227 01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:22,400 It is brought to you by Jonji JANJ i.com, the clothing brand. 1228 01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:26,080 I love the sun chaser hoodie. They got visors over there. 1229 01:11:26,680 --> 01:11:29,240 It's not really glove season, but I do love their gloves. 1230 01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:32,360 I think they're so underrated. So go over there, check it out. 1231 01:11:32,360 --> 01:11:35,960 Past season deals is a great entry point for some past season 1232 01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:40,600 deals up to 5060% off. Use code free outside for 10% 1233 01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:44,520 off and tell them I sent ya. Thank you guys for being here. 1234 01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:48,520 I hope you enjoyed this just conversation I had with Anne 1235 01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:51,680 that I got to put out there. I think it's so fun and I've 1236 01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:54,880 been really on a mission searching down some of the 1237 01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:57,600 greats because I think they have fun stories and offer this 1238 01:11:57,840 --> 01:12:02,280 insight into the past that we don't really have these days in 1239 01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:06,280 a in a lot of sense of the word. So this was Anne. 1240 01:12:06,440 --> 01:12:09,080 This was also brought to you by garage ground gear Garage ground 1241 01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:12,440 gear.com marketplace for small businesses for all things 1242 01:12:12,440 --> 01:12:14,360 outdoors. Just go over there, check it, 1243 01:12:14,480 --> 01:12:17,760 check it out. Tell them I sent you yeah, 1244 01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:20,600 subscribe 5 star ratings reviews really helps. 1245 01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:24,600 And if you have other people you think I should try to get on, 1246 01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:28,320 shoot them over. I I, I love the challenge. 1247 01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:33,800 I love finding the unique people and some of the 225 ish guests 1248 01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:37,360 that we've had on have been suggestions by you guys. 1249 01:12:37,440 --> 01:12:43,000 So don't be shy because willing to work to have the people you 1250 01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:45,760 want to hear on. All right, thank you guys for 1251 01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:47,960 listening. Appreciate you guys being here 1252 01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:50,840 and with that stay elite my friends.