Before we get into today's conversation, I want to spend a
minute talking about our guest today.
Our guest is Anne Tracin. We had a phone call, recorded it
and you guys get to listen to that today.
But if you're newer to trail and ultra running, or FKTS or the
space in general, or you're younger, it can be hard to fully
appreciate what Anne meant to this sport.
Long before live stream, social media sponsorship, or even many
of the races we take for granted today, Anne was redefining what
was possible in ultra running, not just women's ultra running.
In ultra running in general, she won Western states 14 times, 14
different times she won Western states.
And every year we talk about who might want to win it one time.
That's a lot. A record that still stands
decades later. Of course, that is a lot of
times. She set course records that
lasted for years, completed head, competed head to head with
the best runners in the world, all around the world, regardless
of gender, at a time when opportunities for women in
endurance sports were really limited.
It was it was very different than it is today.
And I think the empowerment's incredible today and hopefully
it keeps going. But Anne was really fighting
against mostly the men up there at the front of races.
She wasn't trying to make a statement, but simply showing
up, running her own race, improving what was possible.
But what strikes me most about Anne isn't the trophies, the
records, or the statistics. It's a even after all these
years, she seems driven by the same curiosity that got her
started, even though maybe it's 100 miles over six days instead
of 15 hours. But I think that joy and that
curiosity is something that persists.
We talked a little bit about having goals and and aging and
things and that same love of trails, community, adventure and
seeing what's possible when you challenge yourself.
In this conversation, we don't spend a lot of time going
through races or race results or championship performances.
Instead, we talked about some of the history, the individual
stories, western states, aging, recovery, community, laughter,
and what endurance means after the records.
You know, age away into history, as maybe my own FKTS are going
to do, which is what I'm realizing right now in the
present as I record this. But as someone who spent a lot
of time chasing big goals myself, I find it really
refreshing to talk to someone who's lived through so many eras
of the sport and still approaches it with gratitude,
humor, curiosity. You may have seen her videos
about Coke a Dona or Coke and Donuts as she put it.
The updates and everything were so fun, so I hope that she
continues to use her voice and put things out there because
she's a fun personality. We had a fun time chatting on
the phone, so maybe look her up a little, a few don't know much
about her or just sit back and listen to our conversation with
Ann Trason. So the thing with this
conversation is for some reason, so we it was on the phone we
recorded a phone call and I'm not an audio engineer and my
audio is actually not very good. I got hers pretty darn good.
But mine, you know, hopefully you're not here to listen to me
talk because Anne's audio is pretty good.
Mine is lacking. So sorry about that.
And if you are a viewer, if you watch this on on YouTube or
wherever I put the the videos up, then you're going to notice
that there is not video because it was a phone call.
So subscribe to the show. We put out episodes twice a week
with so many unique guests. I think the fascinating people
are the unique people. And I try to find them, whether
they have a big following, whether they're well known, no
matter how many Western states they have.
I just like the people who are fun to talk to.
And Anne Tracen's one of them. So here is that episode.
I I just to get things started and we can take this wherever
you want. I'm so curious, how do you
decorate your house when you have to incorporate 14 different
massive cougar trophies? Well, oh, Cougars, I am they, I
loan them out out. Well, my some of my family, like
all my family members, have one, of course.
Yeah, they're gifts. And that, and I mean, it was
really an honor to be quite honest that my brother and half
sister wanted one. I mean, because they're not
runners, you know what I mean? It's like here, I mean, really,
what do you say to someone? It's like, this thing's
priceless to me. It's like this cougar trophy
thing that's out of brass and weighs almost 30 lbs.
Would you like one in your house?
I mean, or you're where my brother lives like a little, you
know, in law apartment thing above his garage.
It's like, and they both were like, oh, absolutely.
So their way they went to Fede. You want to hear 1 funny real
story like I've let them out a lot.
Well, not a lot, but some gay around the mostly on the West
Coast to running stores and what you know, and one's going to
hopefully go in this museum thing, maybe in Auburn.
I don't know. Seriously where one is.
It's in the wild. I see my friend, my friend
wanted to document where they were.
She likes spreadsheets. So I got a spreadsheet out and
it's like this year, this troph, I mean, I couldn't believe it.
I was like, seriously. She's like, well, yeah, yeah.
I mean, she did help design it. But anyway, I honestly, I, I
don't know if she's unhappy. I'm she has to be unhappy with
me. I just laugh with her.
I go well, once in a while, Maybe it'll come home.
So there's a cougar out there you have no idea where.
It is. I have no idea where it is.
Wow, so everyone should keep their eyes out for just a cougar
in the wild. That's good one in.
The wild. I'm sorry, I'm really amusing.
I have a very strange sense of humor, apparently.
Oh well, we love it. So what?
What got you on to Cocodona? How did you discover?
How did you decide that you're going to?
Make Oh, well, I know Anthony Culpepper.
So when he was I met him before they started.
There's this event called beyond limits ultras or something.
It was honestly, it was one of the greatest things.
I mean, I'm in just now because I'm old and and crippled, kind
of not crippled, but you know, like I have mature authority.
I have difficulties, let's just say on my whatever I'm doing.
But anyway, I did this. I now have this unbelievably
affectionate affection for time time events.
And Anthony Koplopp was there. You know who he is, right?
Yeah, yeah. And he, he was talking about
doing this thing with Jamil. Always gets my interest because
honestly, I think that guy's brilliant.
Personally, I just like to be in his brain for like 30 minutes
because he must have like 5 billion things going on at one
time. So he told me he was going to
map off the course. And I I, you know, being a trail
lover and I did a lot of exploring.
I didn't do like you guys do you know, this fastest known thing
and put on strawberry or anything like that.
I just kind of did my own thing. So I knew a lot of those trails
and it's beautiful and I was really intrigued.
And also I was a race director for a while and I'm like, Oh my
goodness, how many permits are you gonna have to pull?
I was just like, holy cow. I mean, 'cause I put on a race
in the East Bay hills and even though it was one permit, there
were five supervisors. So it was like getting 5 for
each park I went through 'cause they're it's East Bay parks,
it's kilometer parks and Oh no, I hope this is not on a my phone
is batteries kind of grim. So anyway, I just was like
intrigued. And also it's beautiful.
And then, you know, it started with this whole live streaming
thing, which I have a love hate relationship.
I got hate. I just like kind of like, I'm
glad I'm not a top runner anymore 'cause I would not like
that, you know, having you know, cameras on you all the time.
I mean, it was bad enough in my day I feel like a dinosaur
anyway so but I loved it. I would hate to have a drone
over me. I'd probably throw rocks at it
or something at least like stick out my tongue.
And just like that's annoying cause helicopters used to fly
over my head. Blood Ville had flats would go
high, hats would go flying and Oh my goodness.
But I just I started watching it too and I just I was like the
senior. It's like watching the tour when
they used to have more helicopter shots.
You know, it's just like, yeah, this is beautiful.
And I, you just get addicted to it.
So I've been following it all these years.
I just, you know, I mean, like everyone else, right?
I'm human. Yeah, and then then Coke and
Donuts and the old years. I have these funny friends that
came over and we were just like, I was telling.
She was kind of surprised. Like, why are you so intrigued
with it? And I'm like, well, it's like
Cokes and Donuts and I don't know, just get grew organically.
And then once you start that, it's like, oh man, you got to
finish this. Yeah, you kept adding to it.
You were like wearing funny glasses and stuff by the end
too. Oh well, that's kind of who I am
these days. Yeah, you're the funny glasses
lady these days. Or outfits or, you know,
anything that you can buy at 2:00 in the morning on Amazon.
Well, that's me too. Me and the Acers all finished in
dresses this year so well. That's cool.
Yeah, when it's something so long, you got to find ways to
break it up, make it unique, too.
And the special experience, it's more than just a race.
It's like you're living it for a long time out there.
Yeah, I can't imagine 'cause I used to say that Western states
was a life in a day, although that was used in a movie that
didn't have that context or narrative.
Exactly. But for me, I always felt like
that's why I was so exciting. It was like, wow, I get the
starting lot of Western States and be like, wow, this is like I
am. So I get a whole life in a day
'cause I'd always, I always like to play games in my head and be
like, oh, when you're starting out, you're an infant.
That's why it's so hard to get. You can't even learn how to walk
and you know you're learning to walk.
And then high country, you're an adolescent.
You go through the middle age crisis in the canyons.
Of course, if you take care of yourself, then you're middle
age, for you have a retirement at Forest Hill and you can just
sweetly run to the river if you have a lot of cash and you know
whatever else you're worried about through the canyons.
If you saved all early in the race.
Yeah, if you saved early, man, you got it good.
And then when you're out there at 85 miles and you're kind of
like, why am I so tired? You decide.
Would honestly say I'm 85 years old.
What do you think, Tracin? Like, come on, you're doing
pretty good. Let's go.
And I did that coca dona. You'd be 250 by the end.
I guess that's why I never signed up for one, because I
couldn't live that long. Do you think you would have been
into two 50s or two hundreds if if you were run into death?
Well this is really funny. I don't know, this probably is
not something you should say as a woman, but kind of a
unofficial prenuptial with my husband that I was married to
for a long time. And he honestly asked me not to
do anything longer than 24 hours because he said he didn't want
to take care of me afterwards 'cause I really wanted to do bad
water. And he's like, I don't think you
can break 24. So I crewed bad water and that
was bad enough, but it was just kind of joke with this.
I tried to do a 48 hour once and also I like sleep, especially
when I was young. Not so much now the Amazon
problem but and anything else. But honestly I 2:00 in the
morning. I tried multi, you know, like 24
hours a lot of them two in the morning.
I'm like, where's the hotel? It's not like I'm a Princess or
anything. I just would get my eyes.
I'd be so tired. And I just, you know, these
ideas of a dirt nap just I mean, I don't know, I don't think you.
Although I did this 48 hour and I said 20 minutes.
Maybe it's a headspace. I just wasn't in the right
headspace. How's that sound?
Yeah. But I don't know, maybe I would
have been. Who knows?
You know, he it's a whole different world now.
I mean, I'm talking Rotary phones and everything else you
guys don't know about. Yeah, well, we've heard of the
concepts. Dial ups.
Dial up Internet, Yeah. How about when they work
computers or iPhone? Yeah, we can't just.
Black and white T VS I remember when we got a black and white
TV. Now that ages me.
Yeah, just a bit though, I mean. Just a bit.
Was it? Was it hard dealing with the
attention in your career? You mentioned how you would like
the live stream now. Was was it?
Did the attention take away from the adventure and the journey?
I didn't like it. Yeah.
But to me, it wasn't the racing. I mean, you're only going to get
the attention. I mean, you maybe have to do
interviews. I mean, I was sponsored by Nike.
I loved them. They were really good to me.
And so, you know, you, it was a privilege to have people call up
and want to interview, but I found it very difficult.
I mean, I don't know about you. You're super famous.
How do you deal with it? I'm I'm no end tracing just.
That's not oh, come on, what you've done Like what's this
thing Appalachian? I mean seriously, was that self
support? I can't even they have all these
different categories in my head. I'm too old.
So was it self supported? Self supported.
So like, did you just not eat for 45 days or what?
No, I resupplied so I mailed myself stuff.
You must really like spreadsheets.
No, but my fiance does so hopefully help.
Behind every great man. Absolutely.
Yeah. You know so.
Did she just not see you at all for 45 days?
No, Nope. But that's that's what I'm
saying. We're both the funny glasses
finish and dread. Like these days, you know, we're
leaning into what's quirky and fun.
Follow our personality and, you know, our friends and and
everything have to be the spreadsheet people because I
don't like spreadsheets either. I can't believe that because you
can't not plan for something like that and not do so well.
Well, let's. OK.
What was the most unexpected thing that happened up there
that you really didn't think was going to happen?
Yeah, let's talk about my lack of planning.
So in one of my resupply boxes that was going to be new shoes
and I was so excited for it. I opened it up and there were
two left shoes so. 01 year in states or the United States.
And the worst is I, I'd leave the stuff in our van till the
next day cause hubby would go to work, right?
And that was my job. And I would be so tired, you
know, 'cause I hadn't slept and whatever and eaten or, you know,
one time I couldn't find my shoes for a couple days.
I put them in the freezer. I'm not kidding.
I'm not. Hubby opens it.
Your shoes are here. He was so just by then just
flabbergasted because he had crude and you know everything.
He's pretty tired himself. He's just like, what the hell is
wrong with you? Yeah.
So we both have some shoe problems, some shoe placement.
Oh, so how did that? Did you just run in those other
shoes the rest of the way or did you go to a shoe store?
Yeah, eventually I had to keep going on those shoes, which were
full of. Well if you're doing it self
supported, can you order stuff on Amazon?
Yeah, you can. You can order stuff but I went
to a shoe store about 100. Miles rules up.
What? What?
Makes the rules up. What are what rules?
I mean, this is I'm sorry. Yeah, the.
I mean, can you just make up your own rules?
It's a JG, self supported. Yeah, well, FG or whatever JG
and you could just make a point. Yeah, the the Bulls, they used
to be like more precedent based and now they're they're so
official, just like just like everything else in this world.
I'm just trying to be OK with these.
I'm serious. I've given this some amount of
thought. Not a whole lot because my brain
capacity is very limited. This is time.
But I mean, when you're doing some like in race, you should be
running against so that, I mean, I mean, ultras, you can
technically, and I would feel that way, you're just running
against yourself. But when you're doing something
like that, are you really like going?
Well, Scott Jerrick did it in this section or whatever.
That other guy from Utah did it in this section.
So I need to do better. Are you always concentrating on
someone else, or are you concentrating just on the best
you can be, or something in between?
It's very much on why I like FKTS is it's very much about my
style, like how I do a best. And so that's worrying less
about what other people's times and splits were and doing it my
way, which I think it's been actually hard in the ultra
running or trail space because it is like the person's right
next to you. It's harder to stick to your
game plan. But yeah, I'm very much get the
best out of myself and see where that well man, let me.
Ask you that then why do you need to put it up out there
anyway, 'cause I did a lot, I did a lot of runs in my day that
I don't people even know about. And sometimes people make up
time to go. Yeah, she did the Ray light
loops and then someone posted a time I'm like, I didn't even
have a watch when I did the Ray light loop.
I mean, I knew when the sun came up, I went it down and I just
would look at the sky and go, you better pick it up.
You had no headlamps back then. Oh, we had headlamp.
Well, no, we didn't. As a matter of fact, I ran
before headlamps. They were the I don't even like
them myself, but I used to go to diving store 'cause they were
the brightest lights, but they they'd only last very short
time. OK, so I would just exchange
flashlights. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. I mean seriously, I just was
like I you always have a backup pack, a couple of flashlights,
no matter anytime you go on the Sierras, that's a given.
As a matter of fact, I hiked with this guy before I had this
little RA getting worse. But when we were hiking, he'd
always bring 2 lights with headlamps, 'cause he said when I
go out with you, sometimes we're out here till 2:00 in the
morning, right? Just hiking.
I mean, I mean, it was hysterical and we used them.
I was like, I just got used to it.
He was like, you know, security blanket.
I don't need the lights 'cause he'll John will have a light.
Yeah, so you just knew he'd have enough lights for you too.
Well, there were a couple times, 01 time I went out and I, my
bike did go dead and luckily I found these backpackers and they
didn't lend me a flashlight and they told me what their car was.
So I told them when they where I finished, 'cause that's where
they start too. I would leave the flashlight on
their their windshield. Yeah.
That was his, and I had my dogs. You know, it's really bad when
you have other animals that you're taking care of.
You're trying to explain to them, but they can see better
than you. So sometimes it was great.
I just follow the dogs and hope I didn't trip and fall and kill
myself. Yeah, well, they got 4 feet to
depend on. You only got 2.
I think they they definitely saw better than I did, that was for
sure. Yeah.
That's kind of interesting 'cause yeah, all this stuff
about people doing these times and if you cut switchbacks and
not switchbacks, I mean. Yeah.
What do you think of this world with all these rules and
different things out there now, where it feels way more
complicated than a couple decades ago?
The thing I'm not really used to is, is content, social media,
gravitude to everything is you grab your phone and you just
film it and then put it on subside or another.
I went out to dinner with this woman at running store, asked me
here. I privilege really, really,
really good brother. I'm very famous in Spain.
Apparently she showed up with a videographer and a photographer
for dinner. I'm like, isn't that boring?
Like, are you kidding? I mean, you're embarrassing.
It is. I go to this place all the time.
And I'm like, they didn't even know who I was.
And you're like, why do you have these people here?
I'm like, I don't know. It's her.
She's a professional runner. That's how she introduced
herself and I have no idea. This is very weird.
I just hid in the corner and talked with this other guy
going. I cannot believe this is
happening. Find myself saying that a lot.
Little overwhelming there, too. I have these friends that showed
up here and they wanted to be movie night at my house 'cause
they're practicing when they go to their running festivals and I
don't know what else they're doing, you know, backyard stuff.
So they put a white screen they and they posted it and I'm like,
I guess I'm having movie night at my house and then they're all
going up and down and had to be costumed.
So they're up and down and they're inflatables.
My inflatables really on my street, having one of my
neighbors, my near neighbor who's 10 years older than me,
film them. And I just kept saying, I can't
believe this is happening. I love them dearly.
They make me laugh so hard. It's like, it's like free
entertainment. They just show up and I'm like,
I sit on my couch and watch them.
That's really weird. So I'm curious what took you to
back to across the years this year and that's kind of where,
you know, you exploded back onto the scene.
I needed a break from life for a few years, so I did that.
And then I guess I really miss the community.
I wanted to see if I could challenge myself.
I mean, it's a joke really. I mean, come on, 100 and
whatever miles I did. But I'm, I miss that headspace,
that's my happy place where you just have a goal no matter what
it is, and that's what you're on, You're in the present.
I really like, I think it's why I enjoyed Western States running
ultras 'cause I would just focus on that moment and all the other
noise just disappeared. It was awesome.
And honestly, I'll start crying here.
I didn't realize at all that anyone would care.
It was a little overwhelming to be quite honest, and I'm
grateful for it. Yeah.
Did you get that same mindset that you had back in your
Western states days It. Oh, absolutely.
It was insane. I didn't know that was going to
happen. You don't know till you try.
Yeah, I mean, it was so funny. I just wanted to go there and
just be. There was a couple people I
wanted to see and yeah, I just went with that mine.
And I told my doctor seriously, I would never, I thought, if I
hadn't hiked honestly more than a 5K at one point in over six
years. Wow.
Yeah, I was pretty inactive for about 6 years.
Like really inactive, which kind of surprised me.
I was happy. I enjoyed it, but but then once
the switch, you know, I was like, wow, I miss moving, I miss
people, I miss my community, which I don't know if they feel
I'm in their community, but it's an honor to be there.
And anyway, yeah, it was, you know, it was really a nice.
There were just so many great moments in that six days.
I can't tell you. My head still can't comprehend
it. Yeah.
Were you nervous at the start of it?
Not really, 'cause I was excited.
It was so funny. So I start and I'm like, OK, I'm
gonna do a lap and I'm gonna sit for two hours.
You know, I got 5K or whatever I had planned every day.
I don't remember how much it was 8 miles a day I think or
whatever to get to 50K and I start doing 2 laps and I'm
already thinking I have 6 days. I'm doing like whatever mileage,
you know, it's pathetic. I'm doing the math in my head.
I'm like, I can get a buckle and like then someone comes up to me
like 2 hours later and I'm just contemplating.
I'm like, you know, don't push it.
You have rheumatoid arthritis. You, your feet are really a
mess. They want to do this surgery on
him. I'm in crazy and I'm just like
getting more and more excited internally.
Like I don't want to say anything and jinx myself.
And then I have a client. I still have some coaching
clients and he put it on Facebook, but he knew me and I
was going for the buckle hour 4I and someone comes up and goes,
hey, Ken, put on there. You're going for the buckle.
Are you going to get it? And I at first I was kind of
angry. I have to say inside at first I
was like, I was like, why would you do that to me Ken?
And then I just couldn't stop laughing 'cause I was like, I
would have done that to him. You know, I've had a coat 1314,
something like that. You know, we know each other so
well and it just that warmth that I got from that, that just
was like the kindling to the most awesome 6 days I think I've
had in a long time. Wow, that's so cool.
I don't know. I mean, for me it was.
I didn't even know. Well, I think that's the
beautiful thing about it is, you know, wherever you're at in the
binding this community and getting those feelings again.
And maybe it's not first at Western, but you're still
getting the feeling of chasing that you're out there doing
doing mileage math in your head. You're you're back.
Well, did you feel different after the Appalachian Trail?
Yeah, definitely. I'd say I felt different.
What is the most major thing you learned out there?
I think it's just a whole new level of giving myself a chance
or never writing it off because I was pretty far behind at the
halfway point that just harnessing everything and never
letting my mind click over to thinking I didn't have a chance.
That's a a lesson that could take pretty far in life of, you
know, it could be not going your way.
But if you still think you have a chance, the brain's pretty
powerful and the body's going to follow.
That's one thing I think is complete I wish I had given more
thought to, is how powerful the mind.
And that's the thing that intrigues me most about
ultroning right now is the headspace people can put
themselves in. I mean, you talk about, I even
can't believe it, you talk about pain like a pan cave and
everything. Well, I never got there, but I
mean, what does a pan cave look like?
I mean, does it feel different? I mean, do you?
These are these are called the hard questions with Anne tracing
here. Wow.
I I think it's that feeling where maybe the best way to
describe it is the end feels far enough away that you don't feel
like you're just gritting it out.
You just have to make peace with you hurt quite a bit, but you're
gonna continue forward in this pain per SE.
I I try to embrace a little different style of like the
enjoyment of what I'm doing, but you certainly do feel awful and
have to keep going at times too. But is it discomfort or pain?
Probably more discomfort. I don't know.
I mean, yeah. What would it feel like for you
in mile 70 of 100 Miller in your heyday?
There was a line. I wouldn't cross it.
Yeah, he'd just be done. No crossing.
Well, no, I I would look at it be kind of like you're only one
time. When I ran Comrades the last
time I finished, I crossed it and it was unbelievable.
I ran harder than I ever thought possible.
I ran really well the last 5K last maybe 9 K really.
But now I would get to a point I used to say pain gets to a point
it doesn't get any worse. So that was a choice you know
you get I mean it wouldn't even be painful, be kind of
discomfort, you know, or maybe stomach or I would back off.
I didn't want to throw up. I mean, I did it early years,
but then I'd get to a point I'm like, you know what that is just
not taking good care of your body if you're out here throwing
up for hours or, you know, just can't take any calories on.
To me it was like in Tevis, you have things called the best
condition when the next day they take their hoses out and they
trot on the top ten and you could be 10th in the race, but
you might look the, you know, be as it sounds, best condition.
And to me, I, I guess coming from Western states with the
Tevis, I don't know why I always felt like there's a little bit
of that is like some pride in taking care of yourself, finding
out not to just drive yourself into the ground and slither in.
I mean, I want to enjoy the last 10 miles.
I also, you know, I just wanted to be present to me.
If you got to that point, you were so engulfed and just looked
that it wasn't, you weren't even present.
But maybe that's me and that's what's intriguing talking to
you. I'm asking, do you feel present?
I mean, I don't know. It's a mystery to me.
Yeah, I, I feel quite present. I I mean, I first I want to say
they should just trot every the top 10 finishers around after
coconut the next day and vote on.
Some things, you know, what they should do is make em eat all the
coke. You have to drink a Coke.
And I told Jamil that before the race next year or this year when
I'm I guess it's next year that they should have one for crew
and Pacers and it's a Coke and you have to eat drink so much
Coke and have a couple bites of Donuts every mile.
And so there's beer mile nonsense.
Let's get it real. Yeah, it can be like.
AI mean this should be an event. Yeah, run a mile the next day,
eat 12 Donuts, drink a Coke. Good luck.
Or I think before the event for all the cream Pacers, you know,
have them vent for them, you know, the day before while you
guys are all being nervous and putting your numbers on whatever
piece of equipment. I mean, I don't know what you
guys do before 250. I don't sleep a lot.
But yeah, they could have that. I heard nothing from him.
I sent did send that to him. So, Jamila, is he a response on
this great idea? I couldn't even enter this ATY
right. I couldn't believe it.
I have cataracts so bad I'm basically blind.
I think I'm trying to so this friend like the rates of the
fees going up. I was like, OK, I guess I should
enter. I entered the 100K.
It's like one line below it. I'm like Oh no.
So then I just say forget it. I try and cancel it.
I see that it's pending on my credit card.
I'm like, oh, I got it. So now I I'm like dealing with
trying to get that covered. So I entered the 100K and the
6th day. What a moron.
And then I tell my friend who works at ultrasound and I said
maybe I should wear my glasses when I sign up for races next
time. What do you think?
Is this right at 2:00 in the morning after buying some?
Yeah, it's dead. Yeah, 2:00 in the morning after
buying some. Oh, I got a really good hat, a
couple good hats, so I was really happy.
Yeah, cone hat. Like a construction cone hat.
Wow, that's that's got to look good.
Do you have plans for that if? It's not windy, it's windy.
That thing's history. But yeah, it looked kind of fun.
For your night out in the town. So what?
What did the pain caver, if we're calling it that, feel like
for you at Comrades? Oh, it was intense.
I mean, and I was on fire. I was behind by I was having a
bad day, terrible day, just. And this woman, Maria Bach, he
did get pusted for steroids that you have to say, went flying by
me up this big hill. And I was just like, wow, man,
that's incredible. I used to beat her.
She looks a little different too, but whatever.
And she and I keep there. You get before the days of
Strava and all. I'm aging myself again.
They'd hand you an index card and tell you, well, I had a
little bottle with me with a goo with the rubber band and an
index card every 5K. I'm not kidding.
Little Anne the Princess, that's what Nike had for me.
Awesome. It was the rugby team, the rugby
team. So all these big ass guys, you
just can go to a 5K, you can't repeat.
So I'd have to have that many people on my, they're called
seconding team. So I'm 2 minutes, 2 minutes, 2
minutes behind her and there's a place on the downhill where you
just drop off the face of the earth.
It's like a toll Plaza or something.
And I got down to 15 K to go and I was so sick of two minutes.
I was like, I just want 1:45. I am just going to get on my
toes. I'm going to Sprint down this
hill. I don't care what it hurts like
I want 145. And I just started sprinting
like a freaking maniac. I mean, I couldn't believe it.
I kept it up till the finish. When I entered the stadium, they
announced me as Maria Bach. Wow.
And the seconding team, you know, their Nike, they were all
disappointed. I was going to get second, which
is unfortunate, but that's just how life is.
And when I they were so excited, I think they busted through
security. We had the best time.
But honestly, I can believe I ran that.
But it hurts so bad. I couldn't believe it and it got
addicted. The more it hurt, the better I
felt. In a way I'm like, good, you're
trying harder. It was weird.
But never went back there. No, no, no, you have to be in
the. I don't know how I got there
'cause I'm not that kind of person.
Yeah. It was, it was bizarre.
Yeah. And I didn't give it a lot of
thought. I think now I would.
When I watch people like Courtney and and you and all
these other people and what Rachel did, they're just like
how you handle it mentally. There's a lot to be learned
there, and also nutrition and a lot of other things.
But the mental aspect I find kind of interesting.
Yeah. Did you do anything special on
the mental side when you were near hated?
Tried to just, I was very shy. So my whole thing was how do I
not have to talk to anyone before the race?
You'd wear a disguise. I should have.
A mustache. Now that's what I do.
It looks really well. Yeah, yeah, you just disguise.
Yourself, except, except honestly, a couple months ago I
was walking to get my hair cut, which I do have to do
occasionally to a new place with my Walker.
And OK, it's a day after Saint Patty's Day.
I had a procedure done that day on Saint Patty's Day, so I
couldn't. Someone gave me the Saint
Patty's hat. So I'm like, I'm gonna wear this
to the hairdresser place. Someone saw that and thought I
was some friggin old woman walking around Auburn with a
didn't know today was not Saint Patty's Day, so they called the
cops. I am not kidding.
I get honestly, I arrive with my Walker to this place I've never
been before, Hair place, two cop cars with sirens and everything.
4 cops jump out. Are you under distress, ma'am?
I'm like, I and the people in the hairdresser place jump out
and they're like, who are you? And I'm like, if I could have
just disappeared, believe me, I would have.
I couldn't believe it. And they're acting like, do you
know what day it is? And I'm like, yeah, now, like,
you know, today isn't Saint Patty's Day.
I'm like, yeah, it was yesterday.
It was so wild. I was so embarrassed.
I couldn't believe it. So after I get my hair done, I
say I'm going to go the because it's near there, a police
station and just say should not wear hats and funny hats in
Auburn. Honestly, this cop who looks
like 20 years old, he was there. Yeah, like a child says that's
OK. And you can wear whatever hat
you want to in Auburn. Just be you.
He said that just be you. And I was thinking my life.
Wow, who am I? I could not believe it.
It was hysterical, I thought. Yeah, just.
And also a little frightening, like, well, what if they did get
out the butterfly net and put me in like, I don't know where?
Yeah, we might have never heard from you again.
It could happen. Yeah, don't celebrate a holiday
the day after, man. Cops again.
Oh, no Lot going on in Auburn. Oh man.
Would you hide from me attention or like what?
How would you deal with the attention after winning or doing
well at these races over the years?
Would you try to get out of there as quick as you could or
did you have to abrasive for sponsor obligations?
I guess it's something in between.
I guess I tolerate it as much as I, I was very fortunate in that
my husband at time was really good at that kind of stuff so I
could hide behind him and he, I mean, that sounds horrible.
It didn't matter that he was my husband or not.
There was just someone in my corner and he enjoyed it, it
seemed like. So it was like kind of, we were
a team. It wasn't like husband and wife
or wife and husband, whatever. We were just a team doing
something. That's why I find all this joy
and like what Courtney and all these other people are doing
that. Women are doing when they have
the support behind them because it's not easy.
I mean especially these women have kids and everything.
Hats off. Like more admiration than you
can imagine. And it's hard enough in a lot of
ways to be a female and have the time to fit it in.
I mean it would be nice if it wasn't.
It was equal 5050 all the time with everything.
But that's just my perspective being a female.
And also I'm pre title 9 so I know I'm a little wacky.
We're all a little lucky if we're in this sport.
But I don't know, it's just different.
So how was 45 did so like your fiance drop you off and just
pick you up and go, OK, I'll see you when you're done.
I mean, I guess you track like your little dot she could follow
you on. Did you do in reach?
How did? Yeah, ask all the any question
you want. Yeah, basically had the dot and
then we could text or talk a long way too.
So wasn't. Now if I was rule maker, no
texting because if you really trying to compare it to the old
ages, we didn't have none of that.
Yeah, I mean. I'm just joking, you know?
You do realize I'm just kidding? Yeah, yeah.
I realized you were sending smoke signals to your your
fellow competitors. I know it back in your day.
He never knew where anyone was. It was pretty funny.
Wow. Yeah, I took the inreach when I
went to Bhutan and I did all my coaching clients from that.
It was crazy. But yeah, it's a great device.
Yeah, I had the real big one. I don't have the mini.
He probably have a mini. I borrowed a mini.
I'm cheap, so yeah. Where do you live?
I live in Bozeman, Mt. Bozeman Oh, oh, do you know
Aaron Warnham? He's a doctor there.
No, I don't. My circles don't have a lot of
doctors in them. Oh, if you ever want to, he did
Western States when he was like, he was the youngest finisher
when I met him. He would be a great person to
have on your podcast. I'm not kidding.
One of the most interesting people I've ever met in my life.
And he lives there in Bozeman. Oh wow, what was his name again?
Aaron Warnham. OK.
Yeah. I.
I could not he he he was the one that introduced me to the
Western States Trail. Wow.
I I after I ran AR50I swore off ultras because they were stupid,
of course, and kind of dumb and too far.
I was going to become a marathoner and I met this guy
Aaron, and he was from Berkeley too, and he took me kept for ARS
in April, kept saying you go to get on the 1st 30 miles of
Western states. What do you see this?
And I'm like, no. And we'd go back and forth.
So finally Labor Day had an extra day.
And so I, he took me on the 1st 30 miles.
As a matter of fact, I dropped him.
I can't believe I didn't get lost.
I was having so much fun. I just took off, fell in love
with the course and it was all because of Aaron.
And also he taught me a lot. And him and Kathy Donofrio,
which people probably never heard of before, he won states
twice when she was very young, like 21 or something.
There are a lot of great stories.
I especially people like her. I wish things wouldn't get
forgotten. He went to medical school,
became a doctor, moved to Alaska, help there.
He did a lot of wonderful things and I think he's head of medical
establishment there in Bozeman. There's a lot with Native
Americans. That's why he was in Alaska.
He was doing stuff with he got into a public health and MD
program at, at Berkeley. He didn't even graduate.
He got his GHGD. He's just like one of these
people who once it he decided that he he met Jim Howard.
He was a climber. They're just so many good
stories, aren't there? Yeah, yeah.
What? What more?
What other fascinating people that people won't know about you
do you have in your quiver here? Oh, that would be a good one,
just 'cause you're in Bozeman. Yeah, yeah.
So if you hadn't run those first 30 miles, you might never have
run another ultra. That's probably true.
Wow, think of that sliding doors moment.
Well, that in that 30 miles, I also decided I wasn't going to
get married. I was pretty much engaged at
that time. And I also, in that first 30
miles, decided I wasn't going to apply to get a PhD in
developmental biology, which is where I was working at the time
at Cal at Berkeley. And I cannot, I, I'm not.
When I look back, I cannot believe that really happened.
But it's like yesterday. That 30 miles was so magical and
influence. I, I remember falling on the
course that I just felt like that the course accepted me and
I could talk to it in a way, 'cause I was asking questions
like, should I get married? No, I don't think that's a good
idea. And I was like, well, what am I
going to do with my life? Well, life's a mystery and look,
you've run out of water. I've just dive, just dove my
English is so bad into Duncan Creek and just drank like a with
my mouth wide open and it, it was on.
I mean, I ran with Aaron to what used to be Hodgkin's cabin,
which is like mile aid or there was water there.
And then he's like, don't take the Jim King cut off 'cause
that's where Jim King got lost. For people who don't know the
history of it. And he took a right hand turn
going down into Red Star. And so he's just saying we'll do
this, this and this. You won't get lost.
And I just took off like an idiot.
I mean, there wasn't anyone out there.
I mean, it was just insane. You didn't have your paper map
to guide you a lot. I didn't paper map, I was
following Aaron Aaron, but he wasn't in that great of shape
'cause he was trying to get into.
He had decided he wanted to become a doctor.
Oh that's a good one. He decided to become a doctor
because he went with Jim Howard cause Jim Howard was having knee
problems to meet a a surgeon and he hadn't graduated.
I don't think he had got his GED then and he liked the surgeon so
much and just thought it was great what he did for Jim.
He decided he was going to be a doctor and became one.
If that's not the most amazing story.
Yeah, I mean, I think every story you're telling right now
is the most amazing story I. Don't know what you hate for
food today, but no, it's life. If you get old enough, that's
the truth. You have stories.
Yeah, totally. So so this run goes really well
and you decide to change the entire direction of your life.
Well, yeah, I don't know. I wasn't timing it or anything.
I just fell in love with it. I was like, man, this is like
backpacking. So I did a lot of backpacking,
but we're going to go have pizza now and then I'm going to go
home. I get to take a shower and go to
sleep in my bed and I can do that distance, which would take
me like 3 days, maybe 2 if I pushed it.
And I do it in like a cup, you know, 7 hours, 5 hours,
whatever. Yeah.
The whole day it was like, who wouldn't fall?
And it was so beautiful. Yeah, I love the Sierras.
I love mountains. Oh, they're my favorite mountain
range. I've spent so much time.
They're like where I grew up because I hiked the Pacific
restaurant when I was 20 and I had to learn real lessons in
life like budgeting and buying enough food and surviving out
there. Yeah, I mean, so you were 20
when you first did it. Yeah, Yep, 20 years old.
I had the similar moment I was going to school for to become an
engineer and I backpacked the Pacific Crest Trail and
somewhere in the Sierras, the Sierra Nevada.
As I had this group of friends that I, it was like the first
true group of friends where we were all different but really
cared about each other. And it was just like the
outdoors is magical. I need to do more of this and
less learning about engineering. Yeah, you can almost touch it.
It's so this it's amazing. Yeah, it's.
And then what? What did you decide to do with
your life after that one run was.
Well, that was a problem. OK.
'Cause it's called money and responsibility and just I took
some other jobs for quite a while.
I ended up at Community College, interestingly, where my mom took
her first job and I then was pulled.
Should I? My mom had a my mom get a my
mom, of course, I think my mom is the most amazing person ever.
She was, she got a PhD in 1959 in zoology from UC Berkeley.
She was the only woman in her class and she dedicated her life
to teaching at Community College.
But anyway, her first job was at this place, Contra Costa
Community College. So I saw a job opening there and
I worked in a lab and I think it taught maybe some microbiology
lab classes. Did that for quite a while and
then decided I was going to go to PT school maybe.
And then I got in to physical therapy school in my early 30s.
But I had a Nike contract and the school I got into is
private. Anyway.
It's kind of a decision we made was just go with it.
Yeah. Would I do it again?
Probably not. I'd probably go to PT school,
but that was a decision I made. Yeah.
Did it feel like you were giving up being APT by just going with
it in the moment? Yeah, a little bit.
And also just the stability and having something else not being
consumed by just one thing. Yeah.
And I don't look, I don't have review mirrors in my life.
But I mean, it is one of the things probably, like I said, if
I was mentoring someone in my situation, I was going through
that situation, I'd be like, no, especially then where there are
probably, maybe I'm hoping more opportunities now.
But anyway, it's a choice I made.
And like I said, I try not to be any regretful person.
So I'm just go forward. Yeah, What was your Nike
contract like? Well, they really like me to go
to Comrades, but I didn't. I always wore Nikes.
I love Nike. I don't know when Steve P von
Dyne died. I mean, when I was in high
school, that's all that was there.
And plus they were just such a great story.
But my, I wasn't married at the time, but he was personally, I
ended up marrying, said hey, you should write to Nike after I ran
this AR50 I'm like, why would they do anything for me anyway?
He was bugging, bugging, bugging, bugging persistent.
I'm a typewriter agent again. I wrote Nike and asked him, you
know, told him a little bit about my life and I got like 6
pairs of shoes. I could not believe someone
reminded me, remembered my name from high school or something.
I couldn't believe it. So it allowed me to do things I
wanted. I mean, how could that not be
like incredible? I couldn't believe that I loved
it that much. I mean, I really loved my
friends, my group that I ran with.
It was like a lifestyle. I mean, now you have these
dirtbaggers and everything. But then had AVW van.
We camped on the weekends. I mean, it just there were a
group of people camp and training on the trails.
It just became a lifestyle and I just like pinched myself and go.
I cannot believe my life turned out this great.
Yeah, and it it seems like such a like a different or a
different style community than where you'd like get to show up
at these events and see all your same friends at them too,
camping up and that or and catching up and stuff.
Well, yeah, I mean, it's people ask me, you know, like, what
about the changes? But yeah, it's totally
different. I mean, I'm grateful that I had
what I had. I mean, probably if I was living
life now, I'd probably go, how did those dinosaurs survive?
But I, all my friends did Western states because everyone
could get in, you know, either that or they were crewing or
they were pacing or, and you and you had to do volunteer hours.
There was just kind of a different vibe, different kind
of community, and you didn't really give it a lot of thought
because that's who I was surrounded with.
Yeah. And I loved them.
I mean, they're, they're still my best friends from 1985.
Wow, 20 years of friendship over now.
Wow. I mean, they will.
I'd do anything for them and they do anything for me.
And they're not, I'm not talking, you know, elite
runners. That's what was so wonderful
about it. We had a really eclectic group
of people we ran with every Wednesday night and run and it's
like it. We became a family and they are
family. They're my family.
Yeah. And it's all because of Ultra.
You, you spend that. I mean, you've got to know.
Yeah. And then you spend that many
hours on the trail with anyone but the you're going to become
friends. And the oddest people become
best friends. Yeah, that's where all my best
friends have been made on the trails.
And the unique thing and the hard thing today is just like
that story of dinner and a videographer showing up is it
feels like so much is captured or someone has their phone out
when that feels like it takes away from the experience.
I didn't make all my friends when we were like videoing each
other. It is a different and I was 16
years ago, so 15 years ago. It's different in even my time
in this trail world and community.
Well, you're doing a good job crossing over, I'll tell you
that. It's it's been fun to follow
these kind of things like what was it all the I don't even know
these. I just see people online and my
little bit of following like on the Arizona trail with string
Bean and whatever the other guy was and they and they started
different directions and. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a little
different, a little more showy than it probably was in your
day. Yeah, but it's, and then you
have Killian or whatever going and running like every mountain
molehill between here and, I don't know, Norway.
So another. It's like, why are these people
come up with these ideas? Yeah, people are very creative
these days and feels like for their adventures.
What was it like being a woman in the sport back 20 years ago?
Was it was it a lot, was it difficult?
Was it really a lot different? Well, I don't know how it is for
women now 'cause I just do my own thing.
I think being it was easily to be misunderstood.
I think I still am in a lot of ways, 'cause I don't really
believe in this. Men are are the goal posts.
I never did. I didn't think they were the
gold standard. And I understand why there was
all this push to to say, hey, women do better and endurance
and men like that isn't. I know what I'm saying.
People don't want to hear. But I would look at my street
and I'd see my neighbor's kids be playing brother and sister
and I'd say, I hope her mom isn't saying you have to do
better than your brother to feel better.
I, I just really is something that just goes up my spine.
It's like, like I said, I worked really hard through Title 9 and
all that just to be able to have a girls team just for our own to
see what we could do as individuals, not against anyone
else. I mean, I guess that's maybe
where it came from because I ran when I ran the first three years
in high school and cross country.
I ran on the boys team and I never, I just, I just ran.
I compared myself against myself and they accepted me if I worked
hard. There were a couple girls on the
team, maybe three of us. We didn't even have a full team
my senior year when they were allowed.
But then they said girls could only run half the distance that
the senior boys were. So then I'd run on senior boys
varsity team so I could run 3 miles and not 1 1/2.
And then the other coaches would get mad.
They say, we push so hard for you to get women's right and
like girls rights. I'm like, then make it 3 miles.
But you know, those are little, I don't know, a little different
wars or, you know, battles that don't really.
It's just, I don't know, a different perspective.
I just want people to feel good about themselves and not always
be so judgmental. Yeah.
And I just honestly, people were like, why did you run or do all
that? Like I said, it was because all
my friends were doing it wasn't because I was good at it.
But then you became good at it, or you were good at it.
You know, I never looked at it that way.
I mean, I just looked at if my friends finished.
That was great. I mean, I was more excited.
I mean, I don't know if you felt that.
I've gotten more warmth and feeling of gratitude and help
and just pride when some of the people I've coached or my
friends that I've crewed or paced have finished.
That feeling isn't the same as winning.
That's better to me. I agree, I had an athlete win a
race over the weekend and I am over the moon for for him and
his finish. I think it's so rewarding to be
a part of someone. Yeah, rewarding, I guess is.
Yeah. So that's, I guess that's
something I've learned in life, but.
Did you feel like you didn't get the same attention, I guess, as
the men too, through through kind of the 90s and early 2000s?
No, I didn't look at it that way.
I was kind of embarrassed about the attention I did get.
I know that it did 'cause strife.
I mean, there were guys that really not always would say nice
things along with the lens, you know?
And you got it easy, 'cause she's got a scholarship, you
know, she got Nike sponsorship, so.
She's not equal to us. Of course it's going to run
better. You know, things like, you know,
just nasty little jab things to me anyway.
But people are human and I would just say try not, you know, go
home and hide, go under a rock and feel bad about myself 'cause
then I feel, well, maybe they have some, right?
Maybe that's true. You know, it's like, yeah, you
don't want that in your head. So mostly, to be quite honest,
everyone was incredibly supportive and I'm grateful.
Yeah. I mean, you can always look for
some niche thing that didn't work out right, or someone who
might have said something and misunderstood things, but
honestly, it was unbelievable. Yeah, big time.
What the other thing before I keep you forever, but what is
it? How has it been with like aging?
Has that been a difficult processes?
Oh. It's not I have a chronic
disease. I have rheumatoid arthritis.
I got I something was going on for a while, but then one day I
just woke up in 2017 and honestly, I couldn't move.
I was in so much pain. I I had to have a friend
basically carrying me to the car and to the doctor's office.
Took a year to get diagnosed. It's not it's it's there are a
lot worse things in this world to get, but it's not fun.
And trying to live with that gracefully, that's my goal.
Yeah. And I when I first was, when I
first was diagnosed with it, I thought my life was over.
I really did. I thought man.
And now this year I, I guess aty made me realize I still can have
goals. My life is not over and I just
want people to know with chronic diseases, don't give up.
It's a different kind of ultra. But I want to climb Akankagwa.
I know it's crazy. I just broke my hip.
I'm hopefully on the mend. I didn't want to get surgery
because if I did, the doctor, the surgeon said where he put
the rods in, which would have been a lot less painful than
when I went through. I'd feel it every step of the
way downhill. And I was like, well, how am I
going to do Akan Kagua that way? It might be a pipe dream, but
I'm taking it really seriously. I've hired a climbing coach.
I've never had a coach before. Yeah.
And he also will organize stuff. He's a real deal.
Summit, summit, summit, summit kind of guy.
That's yeah, that's awesome. Even hearing you talk about
across the years of still doing that, the math out there having
the goals and yeah, I think that it's a huge take away and and
lesson that the goals never have to stop.
Well, I mean, everyone's different.
I'm very goal oriented and I flounder if I don't have goals.
But I guess they're people who that's their space.
But for me, it's bringing me a lot of pleasure.
And I have to say, I haven't been this excited so silly since
the first day I signed up for Western States when I sent in my
hard copy. That's so cool man.
If only you could figure out how to sign up for the right across
the years. I know, oh, I'm worried about if
I enter any other races, I'll be like, I learned my lesson on
that one. I couldn't.
I was so embarrassed. And then this Leslie, my friend
who's been texting me, we've been going back and forth on
this. She did an AD 12.
I said I messed up. She's like, you are going to
take care of this or something like that.
And it's like in the middle of the night we're like texting
like 2 old ladies. Like, are you going to enter?
I'm like, I don't know. It's kind of pricey.
Plus it's a long way. She's like, yeah, it's a long.
I mean, we just went back and forth on this for days.
It was hysterical. My kind of comedy.
And then I think we, but I don't even know.
I'm hoping she entered. She'd better tell her end of the
bargain. Yeah, no kidding.
She had knee surgery, so she's on the mend too.
Yeah, ma'am. So what kind of stuff makes you
laugh these days? Where?
What is the end into on the Internet?
What do you like watching or listening to?
You know, I've been so busy, I've been working on my house
that my friends are the things. I really just enjoy the
friendships I have. And it seems like with every
good conversation I have these days, there's a lot of laughter.
I'm so blessed. Yeah.
I ran, I met up with Emma Davies in the land Park.
They ran in the old days when I did or whatever ancient history
of Western States and honestly we just laughed.
It was great. I can't even tell you what we
just the old days or I mean Lu Ann found has found 3 diamond
rings. I mean him.
People like engagement rings and I mean just the craziest things
you know about people. But it just made us laugh.
And you know, getting old is funny if you look.
I mean, he better either laugh or cry, I'll tell you that.
The two of me two ways to take everything would laugh or cry.
My friend has a mother who's 110.
OK, I'm not kidding. And she says her goal in life is
either to annoy or make people laugh.
And I'm like, that's and tracing in a nutshell.
I love it. Yeah, and I didn't know what to
get her for under 10. So I have this like singing
practice thing. I wasn't sure she'd get it and
she loved it. It repeats what you say.
I don't know if you've seen them on Amazon.
Anyway, either it'll sing songs and it dances and it lights up,
or it repeats what you say. Wow, that's.
For noise in the room, but I don't know, I just thought if
you're 110 that might be kind of fun.
Yeah, that's the the age-old question.
That's why you're on the line. We're asking what to get people
when they turn 110. Although I have to say some of
the other ones, like maybe if someone likes pandas there's a
singing panda too. Wow, there's whatever your
favorite animal. There's a singing.
Oh, it's, it's horrible. And then I keep giving him away,
'cause some kid will come up and like, oh, I like that lion.
I'm like, here you go. And I'm like, oh God, they're
just 30 more dollars. I'm just kidding.
The joy. It's priceless.
I'm. Not kidding, it is just the joy
of giving. I'm I'm with you.
And also just genuine laughter carries even more weight these
days. I think it's just so fun to get
someone to genuinely laugh at something to do.
Well, what were there any points?
When you're doing all these FKTS or whatever they're called, do
you just find yourself just laughing like it's?
Not, yeah, like if I like falling down or something, or
sometimes I'll be talking to myself and come around the
corner and there's some family or something walking down the
trail and it's like just laughing to myself.
Like I sound like I'm just, I've, I'm off my rocker out here
and just talking to myself. Been in the woods for 40 days
and this family's like, OK, stand closer, kids.
Yeah, I think. I think Alda's like really pure
or maybe just intense experiences are, I don't know,
so fun and unique and they just forged such strong friendships
and bonds too. But.
And emotions. I don't know about you.
I get very emotional. Yeah, it's the what drew me to
these really hard things is it was this way to unencumbered
feel all these really strong emotions without really being
scared of what other people were judging me for and stuff.
Because high school, I was so nervous of people seeing the the
real me that it took being out on the trails to really let
loose and it let myself be who I actually want to be.
How did you do the crossover from the hiking to the running?
That is a good question. I think as the FKTS got shorter
the they became a lot closer to to running.
Why? Didn't they get shorter?
Is it a time commitment or what? I don't know.
I so I just started. I did some 7-8 thousand mile
adventures in my mid 20s and then I did Nolan's 14.
I did the Arizona Trail, then the John.
Merrick, not Nolan's 15. Yeah, yeah.
And then so eventually it was just like, well, this is
basically the length of a ultra marathon, why don't I sign up
for one of these? And my first one was Barkley,
actually, so. I got to meet the famous Lazarus
Lake. I got some secondhand smoke for
him. I was just.
Was he, did he give you any whiskey or anything he drinks?
He didn't, but I'm sure he would have if I asked.
I'm not sure, he probably isn't. I just when he first put on our
style one out there and I do believe he might have been
partaking but I'm not sure of me.
It was my imagination, but he definitely was smoking.
I was so honored. He walked a mile with me.
I was like I was on heaven. Yeah.
And so I don't know, I just sort of fell into it.
And you know, when you're doing FKTS alone, you're not getting a
lot of community. So I think the running side, the
community aspect really was addicting.
Probably, I don't know, can't say, but I I feel that way with
the timed events because it's very social.
Yeah, totally. Well, thanks so much for for
joining. I've already spent so much of
your time. I just really appreciate.
Oh, I, I have so many questions asked you, but maybe sometime if
you're out or Crosswell, ask all the questions I've dying to ask
about all this stuff. I find it really fascinating.
Thanks for having me. Yeah.
Hopefully I'm not an easy person to do an interview with or doc
or whatever this is a conversation with.
You're plenty easy. I just I, I really love the
mindset and leaning in and what we have in common is, you know,
the world needs a little more laughter.
So if it's a singing cactus, whatever it may be, dip to
laughter there. Thank.
Thank you for listening to the show.
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a in a lot of sense of the word. So this was Anne.
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