1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,720 For the past few years I've started this really weird 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:08,680 tradition where I race a 5K in Crocs. 3 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:14,040 Now the first year I did it, I think it was 2021 or 2022 and I 4 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:15,760 didn't know the course. Typical me. 5 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:17,560 I didn't look up anything ahead of time. 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,400 But I did buy Crocs and make sure. 7 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:22,160 This is the key. If you're going to race in 8 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,480 Crocs, you've got to have the right socks. 9 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,840 So Crocs and socks, it's the style. 10 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:32,800 But that year I think I ran around a 19 flat or something. 11 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:39,840 And then Runners World went on to write an article titled This 12 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,400 athlete ran or runs five KS in Crocs. 13 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:45,280 But here's why you shouldn't do it. 14 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:51,160 So I, I felt a little bit of the vitriol of big media, big 15 00:00:51,160 --> 00:00:53,680 running saying don't run in Crocs. 16 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,080 So what did I do? I leaned back in, I continued to 17 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,960 lean in, and this past weekend I went ahead and went after my 18 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:07,000 Crocs PR again. Now it wasn't really a perfect 19 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:08,680 build. I didn't really respect 20 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,200 anything. I actually did 3 speed workouts 21 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:12,600 in the seven days leading up to it. 22 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:17,240 I'm in this phase where after the Appalachian Trail and a 23 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,640 quick turn around into volume invert for Berkeley marathons 24 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:26,840 and then into Cocodona training, which was heavy on volume and 25 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:32,120 right into Europe and backpacking over 300 miles there 26 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,640 and running a race as well, I finally went back to the basics. 27 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:40,160 I just finally had a couple months where I didn't need to do 28 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,880 crazy volume and I could really lean into speed because I can 29 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,280 get fitter. It's pretty much it's the first 30 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,960 time in a year, it's been over a year since I started the 31 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:52,600 Appalachian Trail record attempt. 32 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,120 And it's really been the first time for over that year that I 33 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,680 haven't had this really big, what would be like a bucket list 34 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,920 goal for some people looming that I had to immerse myself 35 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,160 into specificity. And in the last episode I kind 36 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,920 of talked about my training philosophy, but I really wanted 37 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:12,040 a period of time where I could focus more on speed and getting 38 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,520 fitter in raising my aerobic ceiling, hitting some DO 2 Max 39 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,320 work. So I've been doing a lot of 40 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,520 track work actually. And I'm I'm not a great track 41 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,360 athlete. I very little experience on the 42 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:24,840 track. Actually in middle school 43 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:29,320 though, I was the fastest in the district at the 100 meter 44 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,600 hurdles. So take that, but I feel like 45 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,760 it's a really good place. I like to once in a while train 46 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:41,400 by distance, especially in the interval setting. 47 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,760 So I've been doing a lot of eight hundreds, some 4 hundreds 48 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,080 worked in just to push some of that top speed. 49 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,400 One reason we're getting in the weeds in a bit of a tangent 50 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:53,560 here, but that's OK. But one reason is there's a few 51 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:59,280 studies out there that show that when you run hard, like you let 52 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,760 go of thinking about form and queues and stuff, your body will 53 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,280 naturally find its most efficient way to run. 54 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,600 And that's why a lot of coaches and a lot of training plans have 55 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,360 strides on them is when you get that turnover, you're pushing 56 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,440 really hard, your body will naturally lean into the most 57 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,680 efficient way that physiologically it can run. 58 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:20,520 And this will differ from person to person. 59 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:22,360 You can see it in how people run. 60 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:25,440 But hitting those queues and getting that reinforcement of 61 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,160 what your form should look can feel like from those faster 62 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,560 reps, even if they're short, even if they're 20 or 30 seconds 63 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:36,560 can be really big as you build longer volume and into more 64 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,560 specificity for whatever event you're doing. 65 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,120 So incorporate strides once a week. 66 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,960 There's your PSA per SE. And if you want to coach, I have 67 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:49,680 a couple athlete spots that open at the OR that opened at the end 68 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,600 of last month. So hit me up 69 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,800 jeff@freeoutside.com. But anyways, this Crocs 5 Ki 70 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,960 just thought it's been a fun way to do something different. 71 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:00,920 I've always thought Crocs are fun. 72 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:02,240 They're comfortable, I've loved them. 73 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,360 I took them on my first Pacific Crest Trail through hike. 74 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,760 They were my camp shoe. And when you're carrying a 55 LB 75 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,200 pack, who cares if you have a couple extra pounds of Crocs on 76 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,519 your back? But this week, this weekend, it 77 00:04:16,519 --> 00:04:19,079 was the anniversary of the first time I went for my PR. 78 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:23,640 And since I I had a pretty big week, I ran about 20 miles the 79 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:27,240 day before with I think it was like 6000 feet of gain. 80 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,360 But anyways, I figured I was in pretty good shape. 81 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,840 I was going to be a little worn down, definitely not rested or 82 00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:36,720 tapered for a 5K, but the goal was to break 19. 83 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:41,760 I actually don't remember what my true 5 KPR was, but I just 84 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:46,360 decided this time would be my new PR moving forward as long as 85 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:52,600 I broke 19. So I put on my Crocs, I got up 86 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,520 the butt crack of dawn and I jogged real slowly down to the 87 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,120 start line with Allison Powell, my fiance. 88 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,760 I always say her last name because the other Allison, 89 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,320 Allison Mercer comes on so much. And I know that it could be 90 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,760 confusing if if you're you're following the Allison's. 91 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:14,720 We need like one of those things with yarn and and pins between 92 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,920 them on who's on what episode. But we jogged down there, she 93 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,360 was doing like a 10 mile run with the 5K as part of it. 94 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,680 So kudos and bonus points to her. 95 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,360 It was pretty smoky. Was definitely feeling the smoke 96 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,440 from the other day. But just knew that I could smart 97 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,960 pace my way to a sub 19. So that's what I did. 98 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:37,240 I started out this is so weird to give a recap of a 5K because 99 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:42,120 it's definitely nothing elite, but I started out first mile you 100 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,960 go about a half a mile and then you turn onto this gravel trail 101 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,600 called the gallagator. What a name right right through 102 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,600 town. It's a great trail and from I 103 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:57,160 ran like a 610 first mile. From there second mile the first 104 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,160 half is still uphill. You gain about 80 feet in this 105 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:05,160 very difficult 5K at 5000 feet of altitude no less. 106 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:10,480 Second mile about, I don't know, 625 or something not not my best 107 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:12,000 mile. I was not feeling good. 108 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,680 So I have 4 pairs of Crocs. Someone recently asked me how 109 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,800 many pairs and I wore my pair that was in the best shape. 110 00:06:18,280 --> 00:06:22,440 But upon reflection, I wish I'd worn my softer, more broken in 111 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,200 pair because I think it would have felt more comfortable in my 112 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,360 feet because within a mile my feet started hurting. 113 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:30,640 I hadn't trained enough in Crocs. 114 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,760 If you're going to race in Crocs, you have to train your 115 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,840 feet for Crocs. Remember specificity. 116 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:40,000 So got through that mile and it was like, OK, if I run a sub six 117 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,960 final mile, I'll definitely be able to get sub 18. 118 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,280 So I ran, I don't know, maybe a 540. 119 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:52,600 Finished in 1852, a sub 19 minute 5K and we're just going 120 00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:56,800 to call it my Crocs PR. Is it that much faster than my 121 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,680 PR would be in regular shoes? Probably not, but I've never run 122 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,800 5K in super shoes or anything performance motivated, but I've. 123 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,240 It's just a. Fun way and I think these are 124 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,240 really key and maybe this is the lesson or take away if you're 125 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:15,360 looking for one, is that incorporating some way to have 126 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,960 enjoyment or a goal that means something to you but doesn't 127 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:19,880 have to mean something to everyone else. 128 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,200 I think it's really key because then you get that piece of your 129 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,680 identity, not that thing that depends on everyone else not 130 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,280 that you're doing something for everyone else, but that it's 131 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:31,920 that fun quirky thing that makes you smile when you think about 132 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:33,880 it but everyone else can think it's dumb. 133 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,640 I think those are key parts of what make us how we are. 134 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:45,040 So that's what the story of running my Crocs PR5K is. 135 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,600 So I think yeah, moving forward I'll I'm going to try to do it 136 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,800 every year. I'm sure I could be in the 137 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,440 seventeens at some point. That would be pretty cool. 138 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:57,120 So that's kind of the the longer term goal. 139 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,560 May probably my a goal for the rest of my life is run a sub 18 140 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,320 minute 5K in Crocs. I think it's very doable on the 141 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,600 right course because altitude adjusted. 142 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,320 I believe mine would have been about 1815. 143 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,400 I think it's so dumb when pros do that because it's like, we 144 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,600 didn't actually run that time, but just because it's a podcast 145 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:19,640 and I have the ability to ramble on here. 146 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,520 So that is the story of my weekend. 147 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,680 Find the goals and don't be afraid to do the things that 148 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,840 don't make sense to your parents, don't make sense to all 149 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:29,560 your friends, don't make sense to anyone. 150 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:34,360 But also lean into the people who are OK with supporting you 151 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,480 doing something that doesn't make sense. 152 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:37,880 I think that's the fun of all this. 153 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:41,440 I mean, seems like the world's a dumpster fire right now and 154 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,400 we're losing some of the the contact with each other and 155 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,640 there's so much judgement. I saw this one thing the other 156 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,440 day is reading an article about how people just don't really 157 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,720 dance at clubs or nightclubs or bars or music events in the same 158 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:02,160 way that they used to. And the hypothesis was a big 159 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,960 reason was because there were, there's phones and cameras 160 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,760 everywhere and people are embarrassed to get recorded or 161 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,480 made fun of. And I think that's very true. 162 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:15,560 But I think if we uplift or let people do these things that 163 00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:19,320 don't impact anyone else, it doesn't matter how the other 164 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:22,560 person is dressed next to you on the start line, as long as 165 00:09:22,560 --> 00:09:24,520 they're not infringing on your experience. 166 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,920 Just let that be them. And either let that be it or 167 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,640 support them for their ability to be like that. 168 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,160 Let people dance. You don't have to record them. 169 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,080 Take less photos with your phone. 170 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,920 I read another study recently that was like the more photos 171 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:47,080 that you take during a vacation, the less implied happiness that 172 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,040 you you have when you re evaluate that vacation in the 173 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:51,400 future. Like they're really good 174 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,240 reminders and I think they're fun to see and remember stuff, 175 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,000 but not everything has to be a photo. 176 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,720 Some of it can live in that emotional, emotionally guided 177 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:02,560 memory that you have of the event. 178 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:04,800 That's kind of how I explored Europe too. 179 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,800 Is could have taken photos of cathedrals that I saw and stuff 180 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:13,000 like that, but instead I'd want to look at them and then read 181 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,400 the the sign on the history or learn about it, walk inside. 182 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:21,000 Just let the the feeling, the emotion, the the ambiance, the 183 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:25,080 vibe overtake anything rather than just snapping 20 photos of 184 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:29,760 it and moving on. So with that today's episode in 185 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,000 the show we're going well the direction we've always gone, 186 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,920 which is curiosity, interest, adventure and fun. 187 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,520 We have Mack and he's named his trail name is Mack. 188 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,240 His real name is Tyler Fox. For those that are in the ultra 189 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,800 running world and don't like fun nicknames that don't make sense, 190 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,720 go back to their about 5 minutes ago when I was talking about 191 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,160 leaning into those things that may not make sense to you but 192 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:58,000 can be fun for everybody. So Mack, he runs a site 193 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,760 halfwayanywhere.com you should check it out has so much good 194 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,480 info from gear to adventures stuff all over the world. 195 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,080 He's traveled and we kind of talk about that on, he doesn't 196 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,520 necessarily have a home base, but he'll spend like a month 197 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,640 somewhere catching up on writing and kind of comes from that 198 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,400 world of bloggers back in the day, but now has really branched 199 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,440 out. He puts out a survey on a number 200 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,840 of trails at the end of the year on what people took. 201 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,760 So if you're like nervous, what do I take on my first 202 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:27,920 backpacking trip? His website's a great place to 203 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,400 start because it's surveys through hikers and especially 204 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,800 those that were successful and not successful for that kind of 205 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:36,320 info. So we talked to him, but we have 206 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,160 a great conversation about the GR20. 207 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,320 He actually did it about a month before me. 208 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:46,600 And we just talk about like our opinions of it, our expectations 209 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,320 versus reality, and then we get a little deeper and further out 210 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:52,200 from there. So it's a really fun combo. 211 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:56,400 I think you're going to like it. This show is brought to you by 212 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:00,520 John GJANJ, i.com. They have their summer restock 213 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,200 that just launched, and that means that all the stuff that 214 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,480 was out of stock when I was still telling you to go there 215 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,640 and you couldn't buy anything is in stock. 216 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:12,880 I really like the multi shorts. I've run Cocona 250 in them. 217 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:15,600 I've run 100 milers in them. They work really good. 218 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:17,720 They've really reduced a lot of chafing. 219 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,800 I've seen a lot of them just around as well without me 220 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,320 promoting it. And I've also used the Revi pack 221 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,320 around town a lot, just like going to the coffee shop or 222 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:29,960 sometimes I'll like run commute to the library to print 223 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:32,600 something out. I just had to change my voter 224 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,400 registration, PSA register to vote. 225 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:39,600 I mean, there's one way that we think we can make our voice 226 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,840 heard and it's voting. So that's the easiest. 227 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,320 So it's just all start there. It could take 2030 minutes of 228 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,960 your time, but if we can change the course of history, we should 229 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,720 all do that. So the Revi pack, I've just 230 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,080 found it a really good functional pack. 231 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,680 Or when you're going to drive up to the mountains or if you're a 232 00:12:56,680 --> 00:12:59,040 flat land person, drive to a trailhead or something. 233 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:01,000 You just throw everything in your pack you're going to need 234 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,440 for that and also what you're going to want for after the run. 235 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:07,320 So jonju.com, use code free outside for 10% off. 236 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:13,680 OK, here is Tyler Mack box. Thank you guys for listening 237 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:16,000 Smash that subscribe button if you haven't. 238 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,120 It really does help the show and I can keep getting on really 239 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:24,480 cool guess if you keep if you subscribe, subscribe on all the 240 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,000 platforms. You don't even have to listen to 241 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:27,520 them. Go over to Apple podcast, 242 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,960 YouTube, Spotify, even if you just have a free account, never 243 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:33,680 use it. Those numbers, they help me out 244 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,760 and it's free to you. OK, here's Mac. 245 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:43,720 All right, we are live with Mac. How would how would you describe 246 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,640 yourself? What what are you like through 247 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,040 hiker? You've done Smulter running, but 248 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,640 yeah, how would you even describe what you do in life? 249 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,800 No, yeah, I know. It's it's still a question I 250 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,480 struggle with, like not sound. I don't know. 251 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,960 I tell people I like to do endurance outdoor activities, 252 00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:04,120 like anything you can do outside for like a long period of time, 253 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,160 like that's, you know, whether it's rafting or biking or 254 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:12,200 running or hiking, like just the longest versions of things is I 255 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,760 don't know what I'm a previewer of these days. 256 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,720 And so like when you did 100 Miller, it was too short. 257 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:20,400 You had to jump back into the longer stuff. 258 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,160 Yeah, well, I mean, I started with 100 Miller and I was going 259 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,480 to do it. I was signed up for the the Moab 260 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,080 like 240 or 250 or whatever it was. 261 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,560 But then I forget what it was, but something happened that year 262 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,680 and it kind of derailed it for me. 263 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,880 And so that's still on my list. I don't know, that just takes. 264 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,800 So like the thing about that is it's just so much prep, you know 265 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,120 what I mean? Like it's the training that 266 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,640 really, you know, you can't just like, go. 267 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,760 Yeah, it it is a big difference. You can like hike your way into 268 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:52,560 shape on a thru hike versus an ultra. 269 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,000 You kind of just have to show up in shape. 270 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:56,520 Exactly. Yeah. 271 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,240 It's like, here's your one shot, go and do it like this day. 272 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,720 Like so you know, it's a little different, but I know I still 273 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,640 enjoyed it. It was a fun, fun experience 274 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:05,840 getting into that world a little bit. 275 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,000 Yeah, dabble in all the world's. That's what I guess I've decided 276 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,880 to do too. But we're both just incredible 277 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,640 finishers of the GR 20 this year. 278 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,800 So one of probably thousands at this point, maybe 10s of 279 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,560 thousands, but. Congratulations to us all. 280 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,200 Yeah, yeah, exactly. We have our probably finishers 281 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,320 or ticket belt buckle probably sponsors lined up. 282 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,720 Yeah. Do you feel you feel the same? 283 00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:37,160 Yeah, Europe's hardest hike. That's exactly where I wanted to 284 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,000 start. Is it actually the toughest 285 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,880 trail in Europe? What was your opinion? 286 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,880 I mean, it's no has to be the answer. 287 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,520 I mean, I feel like it must earn that reputation from being like 288 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:55,480 simultaneously like a very an extremely popular trail and also 289 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,120 it is a very rugged trail. It is a very steep trail. 290 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:00,800 And so, you know, I feel like if people approach it the same way 291 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,040 they approach like, I don't know, maybe some more, I don't 292 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,840 know, beginner friendly trails. Like it's not necessarily a 293 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,400 trail that you could just show up and do if you'd like. 294 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,000 Literally never backpacked before. 295 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,560 It would be a very hard trail to be like your first big 296 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,400 backpacking trip. So maybe that's where it gets 297 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:18,720 its reputation from. I don't know. 298 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,800 Yeah. And yeah, we come at it from a 299 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:27,240 little different scenario of having done hard things, long 300 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,200 things, but there were a lot of people that look like it might 301 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,600 be their first time tracking a long trail out there. 302 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,720 So I don't know. Did you see a lot of people out 303 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,560 there? Cuz we went about a month apart. 304 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:43,040 I feel like I, I, I mean, for me it was a lot of people. 305 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,720 Like there was multiple times I said to myself, like, there's 306 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,680 already too many people on this trail for me. 307 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:52,560 But I knew that it was nowhere near the level of crowded that 308 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,360 it was going to become. Like there was a couple of 309 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,600 refugios that we stayed at where, you know, there was less 310 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,160 than 10 people there probably at the refugio. 311 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,319 And I talked to people on our very last day, which was also 312 00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:09,040 the most crowded day. And they were like, Oh no, like 313 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,720 this is nothing compared to peak season. 314 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,680 Like there could be 4 times as many people here. 315 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:18,480 And I was like, OK, so I can only imagine what it was like, 316 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,040 you know, late June. Yeah. 317 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,480 So how did how did you hear about it? 318 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:28,000 Because it's very people knew about it in Europe, but over 319 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,320 here it seems a lot lesser known. 320 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,360 And as Fat Corsica in general, people don't even know that it's 321 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:38,440 not even a country. You say to people like, oh, I'm 322 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,600 going to Corsica and they kind of do that thing with like, oh, 323 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:42,080 yeah. And I'm like, you know what that 324 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:47,560 is like I'm like spider France, like, OK, like like a silent, 325 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,800 like, OK, I don't know. I had, I had some friends that 326 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,400 did it a while ago. Like it kind of always like, you 327 00:17:55,400 --> 00:18:00,440 know, like when I did the HRPI, you know, that parallels the GR 328 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,520 10 and the GR 11. And the GR 20 is probably like 329 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:08,440 one of the other big numbers as far as popular GR hikes. 330 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:15,080 And yeah, my partner and I were going over to Europe and we were 331 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:16,600 kind of thinking, we're like, oh, it's may. 332 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,000 Like there's going to be a lot of snow in the Alps. 333 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:24,760 Like where could we go do a hike that, you know, would be 334 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,160 relatively snow free? And so we landed on the GR20. 335 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,880 Yeah, I wish I'd done it closer to when you'd done it instead. 336 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,880 That's when I did the Tour to Mount Blanc, so I had some good 337 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,440 snow and not a lot of people on that one. 338 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,760 And then I had a race in Germany and then ended up in the GR 20. 339 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:47,080 But it was just starting to get packed with people by the time I 340 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,600 did it. And also there was the heat wave 341 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:51,200 too, so. I had the. 342 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,320 Double whammy out there. But yeah, what? 343 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,360 What was it? Had you done any hiking like 344 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:00,800 that before? Have you been a big Hut person? 345 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,160 I read about your Pyrenees hike so some. 346 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,840 Yeah, the Pyrenees was kind of like, I did that in the fall and 347 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,320 it was like pretty late in the fall. 348 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,080 So it was also like some of the huts were closed. 349 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,120 A lot of the huts like weren't crowded at all. 350 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,960 You know, the this was the first time I've been on a trail where 351 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:20,800 it's like you're, you have to stay at the huts or you have to 352 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,480 stay around the huts. Which like, at first I was like, 353 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,680 but then like, after being out there and seeing how many people 354 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:28,760 there were in the landscape and stuff, I was like, oh, I get it. 355 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,760 Like if they just let everybody camp everywhere on this trail, 356 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,320 it would, you know, it'd be destroyed. 357 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,480 It bothered me on the 1st day for sure, but then it came 358 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,960 around to like yeah you can't have this much dispersed camping 359 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,800 or everything would be destroyed. 360 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,240 Yeah, yeah. So I mean, it made sense 361 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,520 ultimately, but I mean, it was kind of weird having like my 362 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,080 days planned out ahead of time and sticking to the schedule. 363 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,320 And then the huts, it's like we didn't really take advantage of 364 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:57,400 the huts because we slept in our tents. 365 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,200 Yeah, I'm kind of glad we didn't sleep in the huts. 366 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,600 Like, apparently bed bugs are a really big thing. 367 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,960 And, you know, like, you're sleeping like literally inches 368 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,920 away from another person and people are getting up to pee and 369 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:10,560 people are snoring. And like, I don't know, I'm much 370 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,440 more comfortable in my TUT. Like I'd pay more to not have to 371 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,040 sleep in the Hut. And like, these huts didn't 372 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:19,600 necessarily. I don't know, I guess it was 373 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,320 nice getting a sandwich for lunch or like a Coke for lunch 374 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:23,760 every day. Like we didn't do any of the 375 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,720 dinners at the huts, but. I don't know. 376 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,160 Yeah, it was definitely different from other huts and 377 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:31,640 other hiking that I've done in the past. 378 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,080 Yeah, and you, I message you a little bit, 'cause you just done 379 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:38,880 it and you were the main thing I took away other than some 380 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:42,200 different beta was just like, yeah, take advantage of the 381 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,800 sandwiches. That was such like a nice 1 382 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:48,360 compared to what I could pack. So there were some benefits to 383 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:52,000 the huts. But I also realized like a lot 384 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,560 of the the Europeans would finish their day at a refugio or 385 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,400 Hut or bivouac at like 2:00 PM too. 386 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,240 Did you notice that too? Like the schedule was very 387 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:03,880 different than how I usually hike. 388 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:08,480 Yeah, they'd finish very early and like, you know, cuz it's 16 389 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,200 stages and it's like 112 miles or something. 390 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,120 And a lot of people do like one stage per day. 391 00:21:14,120 --> 00:21:16,760 So it's like some stages are like 6 miles long. 392 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,240 Yep. And so it's like, it's, you 393 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,360 know, even if you went, you know, half a mile an hour, like, 394 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,320 you could still do it in a whole day. 395 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,560 Like, yeah, like, we had this thing happen in the beginning. 396 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,160 Like, people were like, really dependent on the huts. 397 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,560 I felt like, like they weren't bringing anything because the 398 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,640 first two days was super cloudy for us. 399 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,280 And so apparently it was like, right at the beginning of the 400 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,400 season when everybody was first restocking the huts and they 401 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,280 were like, oh, the helicopters, like the people at the huts were 402 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,760 like, apologizing. And at this point it was nice 403 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,600 because our friends started with us who spoke French so we could 404 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:53,760 actually communicate with people. 405 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,000 But so like the helicopters didn't resupply the huts for 406 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,120 like 2 days or something. And people were like, we have no 407 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:02,680 food. They're like we didn't, we 408 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,600 didn't bring any food. I was like, you have no food, 409 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,600 like and like we have no food and we can't buy any of the 410 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,040 huts. And I was like, you didn't bring 411 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:12,320 any food. Like, it was just so bizarre to 412 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,520 me that like, you would go on a hike like this and like not 413 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,040 bring any food like so. Yeah. 414 00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:21,160 Definitely different like attitude about the huts. 415 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,200 Totally. There were people with like 15 416 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,720 liter packs out there because they'd rent the tents that were 417 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,240 set up at the huts as well and they just buy dinner there. 418 00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:34,240 People drank a lot of beer. And there was also like no 419 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,880 English. Hardly anyone spoke English. 420 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,080 You messaged me that. So I downloaded Google 421 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,520 Translate. But that was that was an 422 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,480 interesting, unexpected thing too, because the rest of Europe, 423 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,640 English was everywhere. I know and like, not only did 424 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,240 people not speak English, people only spoke French because 425 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,240 between my partner and I, we have English, Italian, 426 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,240 Portuguese and Spanish. And so we'd like, and so like, 427 00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:59,480 and they'd just be like, no French. 428 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,600 And so like, you know, it was frustrating because, you know, 429 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,080 our buddy got injured. So he left on like, the third 430 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:06,720 day. And after that, it was just 431 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,400 like, we went from being able to talk to everybody to, like, 432 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,320 literally being able to talk to nobody. 433 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,440 It was until the very end when we like, finally, we like, saw 434 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:16,480 some people sitting at a table. And I was like, those people are 435 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,080 German, They speak English. We should go talk to them so we 436 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:20,880 can talk to somebody. Like. 437 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:22,920 But yeah, it was like pretty surprising. 438 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,000 I mean, I guess I don't know, like you said, it's like a 439 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,800 lesser known trail like in France that like not a lot of 440 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:30,440 people know about South. Most of the people out there 441 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,440 unsurprisingly, were French. But yeah, it's definitely, 442 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,560 definitely not catering to the international crowd. 443 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,200 Yeah. What did you think of the actual 444 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,680 trail? Because you said you rented 445 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,200 Crampon, so it was a little snowy tactical. 446 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,440 Out there. Yeah, like, I don't know. 447 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,360 We were like, we knew there was going to be snow And you know, 448 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:54,160 the thing was we couldn't have because even if you can have a 449 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,640 real conversation with somebody, people don't necessarily like 450 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,320 know your experience. And so like if somebody it's 451 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,720 like the first time they've ever been through snow, they'll just 452 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,280 be like, Oh my God, I was like so crazy. 453 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,280 You definitely need crampons. Like we had crampons. 454 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,120 And so like to one find somebody like who kind of understands 455 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:12,000 your level and to understand somebody who's like going to 456 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:16,480 give you like accurate beta like was completely just like, you 457 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,120 know, it wasn't going to happen for us. 458 00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:21,280 So we everyone we saw had like people have like full on 459 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,840 mountaineering boots and like crampons and stuff. 460 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,640 And I'd be like, surely we don't need mountaineering boots. 461 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:33,800 But then we got to like the Hut right before the high point And 462 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,360 we were talking to the guy there who's actually like the nicest 463 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,480 Hut keeper man employee that like we spoke to the whole time. 464 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,720 And he, even though he didn't speak English, was like talking 465 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,360 to us about the crampons. And he was like, no, no, like, I 466 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:49,360 can rent you crampons. And so it was like, I don't 467 00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:51,600 know, it was like €20 for us both to rent crampons. 468 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,560 I was like, whatever, let's take them because I'm going to be 469 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,960 really mad if like, we wish that we had them halfway up that icy 470 00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,760 slope. And then it was great. 471 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,680 You know, we took them all the way up, super happy to have them 472 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:04,960 use them on the way down. And we return them at the next 473 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:06,280 Hut. And it was like, no, not a 474 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,480 problem at all. But there was also the section 475 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,160 before that that was snow covered, which I don't know. 476 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,320 Was there snow only on the high point for you, or was there also 477 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,720 snow in another section before? There was, yeah, there was more 478 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,720 snow, but it was only on the the north slopes of things, so 479 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,920 possibly not on the climb like because it was 98° when I 480 00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,120 started. So we had the heat wave melting 481 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,760 everything. Yeah, like there was, there was 482 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,040 one section, I want to say it was Section 7. 483 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,800 It was South of the refuge that was called like Manganu. 484 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:43,360 It was north of Ethra Piana and that section was like almost 485 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:47,680 entirely snow covered for us. But like, it wasn't necessarily 486 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,040 like steeper sketchy. So it was fine. 487 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:51,920 But I was like, oh, well, if there was this much snow here, 488 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,200 we're going like 1000 feet higher for the high point. 489 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,840 Like, maybe it'll be a good idea to have, you know, something 490 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,000 substantial on her feet. Yeah, I and I kept going through 491 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,080 a lot of those areas in the afternoon and I just thought the 492 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,080 sunsets and things were fantastic. 493 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,400 So I was trying to be out there for them. 494 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,840 But I had so many people concerned for like my well-being 495 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:17,040 like, you know, it's like 10 kilometers to the next bivouac 496 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,040 and it's like, Yep, I'm, I'm aware, like I'm going to make it 497 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,480 like don't don't worry. But there was so much of that. 498 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:29,240 And I think it is interesting you saying that coming from both 499 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:34,200 the PCT like 15 years ago when there weren't the resources that 500 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,360 exist today, unlike the the fear mongering or the fear going into 501 00:26:38,360 --> 00:26:42,320 things like leading into like, well, I don't you can't be up 502 00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,640 that high at 6:00 PM. No one does that. 503 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,640 Or like you're going to need crampons. 504 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,480 And but yeah, there were so many people with heavy boots and 505 00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,480 mountaineering pants on especially. 506 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,520 And it'd be like 100°, but they're dressed like they're 507 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,480 they're doing Everest or something. 508 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,760 Oh yeah, no, we were definitely like, everybody be like shorts 509 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:04,840 like, yeah, yeah. So it's nice out here. 510 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,280 Like we actually hit like, with the exception of it being cloudy 511 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:09,560 the first two days, the weather we had was like absolutely 512 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,120 beautiful. Like we had no storms any days, 513 00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:15,880 like just a little spot of rain on the first day, like. 514 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,200 And then, yeah, the last day dropping down to the ocean was 515 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,520 like it started getting hot. And that was another thing. 516 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,720 I thought I was like, man, I can't imagine being here when 517 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,640 it's any hotter. And then especially in a heat 518 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,640 wave like must have been so. But there's water everywhere. 519 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,960 Like I think that was the biggest surprise of like I could 520 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,840 get in creeks or swim and then all the huts had water too. 521 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,320 It was a very different aspect. Having done a lot of desert 522 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,960 hiking too is water was never an issue out there and I had a 523 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,360 filter but I never had to use it. 524 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,120 Oh yeah, We literally only got water from the huts. 525 00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:52,800 We never got water from a natural source, like at any 526 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,240 point. It was so bizarre. 527 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,960 I kept being like, oh, I wonder if today's going to be the day 528 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,520 we're finally going to have to like filter water and like we 529 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,640 never had. And it would be just like, like 530 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,480 a stone structure with the hole in it and water flowing out. 531 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,280 And it's like, I guess it's good to drink. 532 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:07,880 I've no idea. I don't know. 533 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,400 Yeah, I'd be like, there'd be a sign if this wasn't potable, 534 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,080 right? Yeah, that's how I treated every 535 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,040 water source. They look like they were 1000 536 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,000 years old too, but I don't know. Trustworthy. 537 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,280 I mean, I didn't get sick so. Yeah, me, me neither. 538 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,040 How? How do you hike these? 539 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,000 Do you have to hike them with a bunch of notes? 540 00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,920 Because you usually write up some resources or a trip report 541 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,400 or something after the fact? I'm curious on that aspect. 542 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,600 Most I'm actually like in the process I I like got behind on 543 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,440 my GR20. But what I do now is, and what I 544 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:46,320 just did for Peru is just like record a voice note every day of 545 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,120 everything and just have it transcribed. 546 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,160 And that I feel like is what I do at the end of every day. 547 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,440 And I'm like that plus the pictures plus the maps. 548 00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:57,480 Like, I don't know, there's something about backpacking or 549 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,560 hiking or even just like, you know, being active outdoors that 550 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:06,080 like I can remember so much compared to just daily life. 551 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,800 Like if you ask me, like in 2013 when you were like hiking into 552 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,000 Kennedy Meadows, like what time of day was it? 553 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,760 And like how many people were on the porch when you got there? 554 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,800 And like, wait, I can like tell you everything that happened. 555 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,560 Like, and it's not like I made an effort to remember that day, 556 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,760 but it's just like, so we're but then if you're like O2 days ago, 557 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,200 like, you know, what'd you have for lunch? 558 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,360 I'm like, I don't know. But like, I can remember rolling 559 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,280 up a, you know, a hot dog and a tortilla like, it's South of 560 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,280 Burney Falls. Yeah, so true. 561 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,920 I I think it just, I don't know, maybe it's just like eliminates 562 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,840 the distractions or something when you're out there. 563 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:39,400 But yeah, it, it is so much more vivid. 564 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,920 So how does this hike sit kind of in your mind compared to 565 00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:45,880 because you've done stuff all over the world? 566 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:47,600 What, what was your opinion of it? 567 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,080 Did you, Was it good, bad. Otherwise, somewhere in the 568 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:51,800 middle. I don't know. 569 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:53,160 I liked it. I would say I would. 570 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,040 I mean, if somebody said to me like should I go hike the GR20, 571 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,040 I'd be like, yeah, but like I probably wouldn't recommend. 572 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,240 I'd probably say hike it early season or late season for sure. 573 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,560 You know, it was, it was, it was nice. 574 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,360 Like it was beautiful. It was that place that I 575 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,320 wouldn't have gone to otherwise. Probably like the one thing 576 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,960 everybody, or at least all the French people that we met like, 577 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:18,040 or people who we talked to not on Corsico would always be like, 578 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:19,560 oh, you're going to the beach. Like you gotta go to the 579 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:20,680 beaches. The beaches were like, no, we're 580 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,800 like going everywhere except for the beaches. 581 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,360 Like, so I don't know, I feel like maybe we missed out on the 582 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,480 beaches, but like, I'm not really too big of a beach guy. 583 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,640 But yeah, I mean, course, I mean the landscape, you know, you saw 584 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,200 was just sometimes I'd be like, oh, I feel like I'm in the 585 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:36,960 Sierra. And then I'd be like, oh, now 586 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,240 it's like you're in this like it's just like a change so much 587 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,520 like from the altitude and from the South to the north. 588 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:48,920 And yeah, I mean, definitely don't definitely sits higher 589 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,400 than other hikes, but definitely I don't think I'll go back and 590 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,960 repeat it anytime. Yeah, I I really enjoyed the 591 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:57,360 landscape. I love the views. 592 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,120 I thought it was so cool seeing the Mediterranean and stuff 593 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,800 while on like a mountain peak. But the culture was different 594 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,320 than I expected. I think just in how Europeans 595 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,520 hiked or the parties at the Refugios and just a little 596 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,960 different coming from a West Coast hiker deep in my soul. 597 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,400 We, we only met one other person. 598 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:23,680 I don't know, because I'm sure you know, you'd have the same 599 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,000 thing. You can look at somebody and be 600 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,240 like, oh, that person's like a through hiker or like that 601 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:29,960 person's like hiked a long trail. 602 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,080 So like there was one day when we were like leaving somewhere 603 00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:34,520 and we turned around, we saw this guy. 604 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,120 We're like, that's the first through hiker looking guy that 605 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,160 we've seen. And then we didn't see him again 606 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,680 until the next night. He showed up at the same refugio 607 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,320 as us. And then I saw like peeping out 608 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,560 from his his shirt sleeve. I was like, I think that guy's 609 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,280 got a PCT tattoo. And then I was like, have you 610 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,360 liked the PCT? And he was this French guy who, 611 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,640 like, spoke like decent English. And he's like, oh, yeah. 612 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,520 So like, I was like, oh, OK. Like, cool. 613 00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,400 Like, so. And he was the first, the only 614 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,040 person we talked to that was like, you know, also hiking it, 615 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:05,760 like, you know, had all this stuff with him, you know, 616 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,440 brought all this food was, you know, hiking it And, you know, 617 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,080 not 16 days. Yeah, exactly. 618 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,720 Like carried food didn't depend on the huts for everything. 619 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,520 Yeah, little background and stuff. 620 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,760 Yeah, not a lot of people like that out there that we found. 621 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,200 Yeah, OK. OK, so you said not somewhere in 622 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,360 the middle. What's the worst through hike 623 00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:28,240 you've ever done? What's the worst trail you've 624 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,320 ended up on? Oh, Trail. 625 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,440 The worst thing I ever did was definitely ride my bike across 626 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:39,760 the middle of Australia. That's like the one that stands 627 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,880 out is like, why did I do that? And I would never do that again 628 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,960 and never recommend for anybody to do that. 629 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,840 Like as far as longer hikes go, like I don't know. 630 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,520 They've all been perfect. They haven't been perfect, but 631 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,080 they've all been pretty good. Like they've all, they've all 632 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,520 mostly been things that I would definitely recommend to people 633 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,560 if somebody like came to me and was like, hey, should I do this 634 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,240 hike? OK, I. 635 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:09,320 Don't know. Yeah. 636 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,920 I feel like I invest enough time ahead of time to generally know 637 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,360 like that it'll probably be worth it. 638 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,000 Yeah. I mean, I think there's always 639 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,360 like an aspect that is worth it or a moment or a day, and that's 640 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,400 probably why we do this kind of stuff too. 641 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,640 But yeah, I think there's like this, these kind of things can 642 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,120 build up in your head too and maybe disappoint on certain 643 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,400 levels at the same time. So it's give or take. 644 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,880 Actually, you know what, maybe hot take, but I'd say least 645 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,400 favorite hike and you know, the shorter hike but not the Ruby 646 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,680 Crest trail was a little disappointing. 647 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,520 OK, yeah. It snowed on us. 648 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,920 We did it out and back. So it was actually an incredible 649 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,200 experience because it was like an adventure. 650 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,000 No one was there. We woke up in a foot of snow and 651 00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,360 was like, this is so stupid. We love it. 652 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,120 I mean, that's cool that yeah, we did it. 653 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:07,320 We did it northbound and like, I think just two days and I don't 654 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,800 know, I heard everybody talk about how beautiful it is, like 655 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,000 the Sierra, blah, blah, blah. And then you get to the northern 656 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,719 section, like Lamoille Canyon or whatever. 657 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,480 Like this is what everybody's talking about on the rest of the 658 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,320 trail. I was just like, what is walking 659 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,080 in the desert? It's not really. 660 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,000 So I think that was the time I was like the most disappointed 661 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,600 in in a hike, I would say. It's so we did it out and back, 662 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:32,760 but the, and then we went northbound, I guess, and then 663 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,400 turned around and came back. But the first half of the trail 664 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,480 is like pretty lackluster. So knowing we had the other half 665 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,400 of that waiting at the end was like, OK, we'll just get through 666 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,159 it. But I'm so with you. 667 00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:47,120 The the good part of that trail is not the whole trail. 668 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:52,639 Exactly, Yeah. So OK, I want to go back in in 669 00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:57,520 time a little bit. How did you kind of start making 670 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,400 this through hiking website and everything your life? 671 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,840 How did it how did it become more than just your your hobby? 672 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,960 You save up vacation time for I. Mean it. 673 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,440 I studied abroad in Brazil in 2011 and I just like literally 674 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:19,000 started one step above a Geocities website for, you know, 675 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,560 people who still know what that is like. 676 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:22,880 That was just like, I'm going to write about funny things in 677 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,000 Brazil. And then after that, you know, I 678 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,680 just kind of kept writing on my little blog. 679 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,040 And, you know, then when I started hiking the PCT, I was 680 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,480 like, I guess I'm going to write about the PCT on my little blog 681 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,080 now. And, you know, like you said 682 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:40,600 earlier, there's, there was no information online about the 683 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:41,920 PCT. Like I was hardly even 684 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:43,520 convinced. It was like a real trail. 685 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:47,160 Like I told my dad I was like, Oh, yeah, I'm going to go to the 686 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:48,800 Mexican border. And apparently there's this 687 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,800 trail and you just walk and then you get to Canada. 688 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,240 And he's like, what? I was like, yeah, I think so. 689 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,200 So, you know, I started writing about that. 690 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,920 And, you know, as the PCT became more popular, like, people 691 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,640 started finding my website via the PCT. 692 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:07,960 And I don't know, I just kind of kept working on it. 693 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,720 You know, I moved to Japan and started writing about hiking in 694 00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:13,920 Japan because there was no information in English about, 695 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,400 you know, any of the mountains out there. 696 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:20,200 And for a while I was like, I'm going to have a travel website 697 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,840 or something. And then eventually I was like, 698 00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,520 I think I have like a hiking website actually. 699 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,880 And so yeah, it just kind of slowly evolved. 700 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:33,160 But I mean, you know, I started it in 2011 and then it wasn't 701 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:38,200 until like 20/17/2018 that like it actually became my full time 702 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:39,960 job. So I was. 703 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,120 Do you remember post holder? Yes. 704 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,800 I do. I was like, yeah, I was still. 705 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,160 I was, yeah. Was that like a journal website 706 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:57,400 or like a snow website or like? It did everything bad like it 707 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,560 had like, but it was good for the time. 708 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,640 I that's what I used in 2011 to plan the PCT, but it would have 709 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,920 like resupplies. It had like really rough snow 710 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,000 data. It had some links to journals. 711 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:13,240 So it's just like compiler? I don't know, maybe it still 712 00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:18,440 exists but long since dated. But do you remember the PCTL? 713 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:21,840 Was that a listserv or something? 714 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,760 Yeah, the PCT listserv. No one's even gonna know what 715 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:27,760 those are. I know, I know. 716 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,720 It's like, it's such a, it's like this is, this is how things 717 00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:34,400 used to work. You know, you tell people I'm 718 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,120 like, I carried paper maps on the PCT. 719 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,360 I'm like, there was no, there was no far out. 720 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,480 Like there was this app called half mile that would tell you 721 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:42,840 whether or not you were on the trail. 722 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:44,840 But my GPS didn't even work on my phone. 723 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,640 So like it didn't really help me very much like. 724 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:51,480 Yeah, I remember being in the Sierra and we had like a stack 725 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:55,640 of 60 maps and it's like 4 idiots trying to figure out how 726 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,320 compass works. Like which notch is Forester 727 00:37:58,320 --> 00:37:59,800 pass? Like where should we even be 728 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:01,840 walking because it was so snow covered. 729 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:04,840 But yeah, those are the the times. 730 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,840 I'm curious, how did how did the the survey start? 731 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,440 Because I think that's, is that what you're most well known for? 732 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,640 Are you the survey guy? That's I think that is what I'm 733 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:16,800 most well known for. Definitely. 734 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,120 I mean, I started it right after I hiked the PCT in 2013, like 735 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,040 the first because you know, like, like I said, there was no 736 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,040 information. And it's like everything you 737 00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,320 would read, I'd be like, well, I don't know if this information 738 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:32,000 is coming from like some 70 year old dude or like some like 20 739 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:33,880 year old girl. And it's like, obviously these 740 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,120 people are going to have two very different perspectives on 741 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,240 things. And so, you know, I was just 742 00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:40,840 kind of like, wouldn't it be nice to kind of know the average 743 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,360 answer to a lot of these questions, like especially 744 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,200 starting date? Because you know, back then it 745 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:47,520 was like you just start whenever you want and there was no, you 746 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:49,520 know, permit lottery and everything. 747 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,720 So you know, when to start was like a big question. 748 00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:54,560 So it was kind of like, oh, I wonder what like the average 749 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,080 starting date was. And yeah, that's kind of like 750 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,320 just how it came to be. And you know, 2013 I had, you 751 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,760 know, it was, it was a far cry from what it is today, but. 752 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,480 Yeah, it's funny that the question that led you to start 753 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,600 it is the most irrelevant question now. 754 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:15,120 Yeah, yeah. Like when do you start Whenever 755 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:16,640 you can get a permit is. Literally. 756 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:22,280 Yeah, exactly. Man, so so back then it was like 757 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:27,800 start date and then was it gear? But how did you find people to 758 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:29,960 answer it? I guess is like my biggest 759 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,520 question in 2013. I mean, in 2013, you know, like 760 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,760 I messaged people who I had met on the trail. 761 00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:39,400 I must have. Maybe I sent it out to the 762 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:40,960 listserv. I don't remember. 763 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:42,560 Like, you know. That would have been scary. 764 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,240 You never know how people are going to respond. 765 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:50,240 There's probably a Facebook group that I posted in, like I'd 766 00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:53,200 have to look and see, but I feel like I got, you know, maybe 100 767 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,440 responses the first year, which I feel like would have been 768 00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:58,240 pretty good. Like now it's like close to like 769 00:39:58,240 --> 00:40:02,800 800 or 900 a year. But you know, it's also turned 770 00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:05,120 into, you know, it's pretty comprehensive. 771 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,360 Like my partner works in like surveys and data science and 772 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,120 stuff and she's like, it's amazing. 773 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,920 That, you know, you have 800 people voluntarily filling out a 774 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,480 survey that takes them like 2 hours and. 775 00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:22,120 It keeps growing. Yeah, you you keep adding to it. 776 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:24,760 It does. And every, you know, I ask for 777 00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,240 feedback on the survey from people who take it every year. 778 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:31,200 And the probably the two most popular things that people like 779 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,200 to tell me are the surveys too long and the survey is not long 780 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,640 enough. So it's like it's very divided, 781 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:39,880 like, you know, I, I try, I try to improve it like, you know, I 782 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,920 have like logic jumps and conditional questions and stuff. 783 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,920 So I try not to present people with questions that you know, 784 00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,760 aren't applicable to them. But but yeah, it it gets, it 785 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,080 gets a little messy. Like the, the platform that I 786 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,040 use really wants me to upgrade to like their new system because 787 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,640 I'm like grandfathered into an old plan, But I don't think I 788 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,720 ever will because it's like 10 times the price. 789 00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:02,760 But I don't know, maybe I'll have to if it if it keeps 790 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:04,640 growing like. Yeah. 791 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,040 Do you get more responses every year? 792 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,560 Like is it growing or the peaked? 793 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:13,440 It's it's kind of leveled out, which, you know, I feel like 794 00:41:14,240 --> 00:41:18,440 makes like on paper it makes sense because on paper 795 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:22,400 technically there should only be X number of people who hike 796 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,280 through hike the PCT every year because of permits. 797 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:30,160 And so I feel like it's reached like the critical mass of that 798 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,560 number of people who hike because, yeah, I feel like the 799 00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:36,680 last, like, you know, since COVID, it's kind of hovered 800 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,000 around like the same like within like 100 responses or so. 801 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,840 So, you know, I don't think I'm ever going to get like 5000 802 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,840 people filling out the survey. But, you know, I mean, from a 803 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,840 like a percentage of the entire population standpoint, like it's 804 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,520 a huge sample size. Like that's the other thing. 805 00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,480 Some people like to send me messages and yell at that. 806 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,120 They're like, well, this isn't what I saw like on the trail 807 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,480 when I was on the trail. I'm like, well, that's why we 808 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,080 call this like anecdotal evidence and it's not really the 809 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,920 same. Yeah, it's exactly the point of 810 00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,920 doing the survey is so that you don't just have the people 811 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:10,720 around you. Exactly. 812 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:16,960 What so in doing it now for a decade plus what since our since 813 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,320 our days back on the trail, what's been like the biggest 814 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:23,480 change that you that people kids do these days, these young kids? 815 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:27,320 Out there. Well, from a strictly anecdotal 816 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:32,400 point of view, I just did trail magic for three days at Onion 817 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:39,280 Valley and I, I was very surprised at how few people 818 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:44,680 appeared to be like ultralight. Like lots of people had big 819 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,280 backpacks. Practically everybody I felt 820 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,600 like had like a giant pair of camp shoes like Birkenstocks or 821 00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,800 Crocs or like big sandals. Like I don't know, I don't know 822 00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:57,240 if there's a, you know, I'm, I'm interested to see in the data 823 00:42:57,240 --> 00:42:58,200 this year. Like, I don't know if there's 824 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,480 like a trend away from, you know, just like super ultralight 825 00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:04,400 everything. Or if like maybe it's just 826 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,320 because all those people weren't coming out over Kearsarge to 827 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,920 resupply and they were just pushing through to BVR Mutual 828 00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:14,120 Ranch or Mammoth or something. But I thought that was pretty 829 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,600 interesting. But you know, the gear is 830 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:21,560 probably the thing that's evolved the most and I think I 831 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,520 started doing gear in like 2016. So it's like 10 years of gear 832 00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:25,840 data now. But you know, just like the 833 00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:29,960 trend towards quilts, the trend towards non freestanding tense, 834 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,440 the trend towards, you know, just like lighter weight 835 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,640 backpacks, like frameless backpacks, no hip belts. 836 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,200 But I don't know, maybe, maybe that's maybe it's swinging the 837 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,560 other wind this year. Do people use boots still? 838 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,000 Hardly anybody. And that's, you know what, it's 839 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,920 so frustrating because people don't people, people don't. 840 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,240 Lots of people that I've learned don't really understand what 841 00:43:53,240 --> 00:43:56,560 their gear is because I ask people in one question what kind 842 00:43:56,560 --> 00:43:58,120 of tent they had. And then I'll ask people in 843 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,640 another question if their tent was freestanding, semi 844 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,200 freestanding or not freestanding. 845 00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:05,400 And the number of people who don't know what kind of tent 846 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,520 they have is like shocking because I always have to go 847 00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,440 through and just like do it manually anyways. 848 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,880 Or like the people who like will say they use this type of shoe, 849 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,000 but then they, they're like, oh, I use the Ultra Lone Peak. 850 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:17,440 And then they'll say they use the boot. 851 00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:18,680 I'm like, OK, this is not a boot. 852 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:22,880 Like so, but nobody, it's, it's, it's like nobody uses boots like 853 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,080 less than 1% of hikers. OK, what? 854 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:31,200 What's the one topic or thing that you're most interested in 855 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,600 every year? Is there one that you're really 856 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,600 keen to to learn what happens out there or how it changed? 857 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:43,160 Like a question or topic? I don't know, I, I feel like for 858 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,360 me, the most interesting thing every year is just like, I like 859 00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:50,280 reading people's free response questions like because I, I ask, 860 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:53,640 I ask a lot of free responses about like things that surprised 861 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,240 you or things that scared you or, you know, best moments on 862 00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:58,560 trail. And I don't know, I feel like 863 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,000 those because those change the most year to year, I feel like. 864 00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,120 Do you have a good what? What scares you when you 865 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,600 remember reading? I don't know. 866 00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,200 It's been, as you see, it's, we're coming up on almost a year 867 00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,840 now since the last survey. So I, it's all my, my brand's 868 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,200 been emptying out and refilling with, you know, GR 20 869 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,800 information since then. Yeah, fair. 870 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:21,280 OK. Another. 871 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,600 I'm curious though, how much does it cost to to hike say, the 872 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:27,320 PCT now? Because that's got to have 873 00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:29,600 changed a ton since. Pre. 874 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,600 Inflation. Yeah, I keep meaning to break 875 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,080 that down a little bit too. I remember like back, you know, 876 00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:37,440 when I hiked, people would be like, oh, it's like $1000 a 877 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,760 month. So, you know, if you hike in, 878 00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:41,960 you hike in four months, it's $4000. 879 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,280 And now I think the average from domestic through hikers is 880 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,840 something like 10 or $11,000. Whoa. 881 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,560 We said like a dollar a mile you could get by on. 882 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:59,000 So that has changed a lot. A dollar a mile is ambitious and 883 00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,280 very optimistic. That's a deal. 884 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,240 Well, the hostels were still like there's some like $15 885 00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:07,560 hostels and stuff back then. You get by on not a lot. 886 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,480 And, you know, like all the trail angels haven't turned into 887 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,760 trail businesses. Like, people are still just 888 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,120 like, what are you doing? Like the Pacific Coast Trail. 889 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,120 Like, oh cool. Yeah, yeah. 890 00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,160 Have you done a lot of hiking on the major trails in the US 891 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,880 recently? I mean, I did 1000 miles of the 892 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:33,640 PCT in 2019 and then you know, I'm around the PCT at least once 893 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,880 a year somewhere in the Sierra I'll usually be. 894 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:41,200 But like, I haven't really done any long hiking on the CDT or 895 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:45,600 the PCT or anything recently. It seems like trail, the trail 896 00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,520 Angel term or style has changed as well. 897 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:53,760 Like there's businesses that dabble in trail magic but also 898 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,520 make money on it too. It seems like that's a changing 899 00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,360 aspect of the trail. Has that been? 900 00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:01,000 Have you noticed? Yeah, I yeah. 901 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,400 And I really, I don't know, I feel icky about like people when 902 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,440 I was doing trail magic for people, people be like, oh, so 903 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:08,280 you're a trail Angel, like people who weren't hiking. 904 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:09,600 And I'd be like, no, like, I don't know. 905 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,120 I don't. You don't don't call me like 906 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:13,840 that. Feels like a tainted word 907 00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:16,640 nowadays, like I'm just the guy out here trying to help support 908 00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:19,760 the hike. Yeah, and my, my parents have 909 00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:22,520 sectioned hiked it over the last few years, so I've heard a lot 910 00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,320 from them. But now a lot of people will 911 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,720 like, message someone on the Facebook page for a ride instead 912 00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:30,080 of hitchhiking. Like it's just a totally 913 00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,160 different experience, I think, than back in our day. 914 00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,760 Yeah, I know. I try my best to like, not like, 915 00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,600 harp on like how it used to be, but I don't know, I feel like it 916 00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:49,440 really used to be. Yeah, I, I, I mean, it was more 917 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,440 I really like the unknown and I like the because I had a blog 918 00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,400 too. It was really fun to just read 919 00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,600 blogs, like you get a full picture of what happened versus 920 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:04,080 maybe now it must all be on Instagram or TikTok or social 921 00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:06,280 media. But even just the method of 922 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,240 research for all these trials, even just being in Europe, has 923 00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:13,840 changed so much. Yeah, I know I I would, I kept 924 00:48:13,840 --> 00:48:16,320 it like some people who would hang out like at, you know, my 925 00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:19,800 trail magic, you know, eventually start talking about 926 00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,880 the trail and stuff. And I encourage a lot of people 927 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,360 to delete Far Out. I'm like, if you want a 928 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,840 different experience of the trail, like delete far out like, 929 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,280 and it's like, you know, I don't know, I think Far out's great. 930 00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:36,560 They do a great job, but like, it's, you know, when you have 20 931 00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,560 different people leaving comments for waypoints, like, 932 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:43,440 you know, every half a mile, it's like there really is like 933 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,000 there's no surprise or no nothing. 934 00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:47,120 And it's like they're like, but then how will I know how much 935 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:48,720 water to carry? And I'm like, well, then you 936 00:48:48,720 --> 00:48:51,880 look at the map and you see where the next reliable water 937 00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,320 source is going to be. And you'd think, OK, well, it's 938 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,640 20 miles to get to that river. How many, how many liters of 939 00:48:57,640 --> 00:48:59,720 water do I need for 20 miles? So like, that's a lot of water. 940 00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:03,200 I'm like, yeah, I carried like 7 liters of water many times on 941 00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:06,520 the BCT, like yeah, 7:00 I'm like, yeah. 942 00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,440 Yeah, and, and the other thing is like, campsites are 943 00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,200 everywhere too. I there's not the days where 944 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,720 you're like walking along, it's getting dark and you're like, I 945 00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:17,320 sure hope I find a campsite soon. 946 00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,680 Now you just know where you're going to camp. 947 00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:21,560 It's changed. Yeah, I know. 948 00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,720 It's, it's, I don't know. It's definitely a much, much 949 00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:27,440 different experience than it once was. 950 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,160 Yeah. Analog PCD, hiking, That's 951 00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,040 that's the isn't that what Gen. Z likes now? 952 00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,640 Analog isn't everybody going analog with things like. 953 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:38,000 So yeah, you know, ditch the phone and bring your paper map. 954 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:42,040 Yeah, so the the map set where you'd be hiking with just like a 955 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,000 thick thing of maps or mail my head and resupplies, then 956 00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,120 resupply gets lost and you don't have your maps. 957 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,200 Those are the good old days. Yeah, I remember calling my dad 958 00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,080 from a Ridge because I like dropped my map and I like gave 959 00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:56,720 him instructions on like how to navigate to the maps online 960 00:49:56,720 --> 00:49:58,000 because I didn't know where the next water. 961 00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:01,640 I was like, I was like, thank God I have service because 962 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,000 otherwise I don't know how I'd have to carry so much water 963 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,920 because I had lost my map. Yeah, yeah, they, they were like 964 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,400 worth their weight in gold. It's what everyone had. 965 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:14,480 It was you had the you'd like go to Kinko's, print out like 70 966 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,880 double sided maps and that's what you're going to navigate 967 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,080 with no idea how to use a map. It was a fun time. 968 00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:25,800 Yeah. Just backpacking or through 969 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:30,440 hiking in these adventures, does it have the same meaning or 970 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,560 feeling now that you've been doing it for over a decade? 971 00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,200 Like do you feel more pressure? Do you still get that same like 972 00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:40,120 wonder and awe and enjoyment of stuff? 973 00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:45,760 I kind of feel like I need to reach more for those kinds of 974 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:51,640 things like, you know, do something that really doesn't 975 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:55,880 have a lot of information out there about it or hasn't really 976 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:57,400 doesn't have. You know, when I did the Hey 977 00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,360 Duke, I kind of felt that way again, like it was a lot more 978 00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,600 like I don't know what I'm getting myself into sort of 979 00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,160 thing. And in September, I'm going back 980 00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:08,360 to Japan to like, repeat a route that I put together through the 981 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,480 Japanese Alps that like, it's kind of just like something I 982 00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:15,880 put together and like, I literally have no beta or no way 983 00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,560 of getting lots of the beta. So like, I don't know, I feel 984 00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:21,520 like I still look for like, that the challenge of not just the 985 00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:26,120 actual physical act of doing it, but just like of the whole trail 986 00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,120 itself, like the logistics of it, the, you know, the unknowns 987 00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,840 of it, the yeah, I don't know, I feel like I kind of have to 988 00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:34,400 reach for more of that sort of thing. 989 00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,480 Yeah, I'm, I'm with you. That's why I think it's like 990 00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,400 it's so hard because you're 1st through hike. 991 00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,360 Like for us, the PCT sits in your mind in such a different 992 00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:48,000 way because if you did the PCT again the year after that, like 993 00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,200 it would still have a different meaning because you'd already 994 00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,240 learned all these things. It's almost like that learning 995 00:51:53,240 --> 00:51:56,120 aspect or trying to figure things out on the fly or not 996 00:51:56,120 --> 00:52:00,560 knowing anything about anything is sort of the, it's such a cool 997 00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:01,560 experience. I don't know. 998 00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,160 Did you feel the same way on the on your first through hike? 999 00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:06,280 Yeah, yeah. It's like, you know, it's like 1000 00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:07,800 it's because you're learning something. 1001 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:08,760 I feel like, you know what I mean? 1002 00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,400 Like if my hike isn't teaching me anything, it's like it could 1003 00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:13,720 still be nice. Like the GR20, like didn't teach 1004 00:52:13,720 --> 00:52:15,640 me anything about hiking. Like I never had any. 1005 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,600 I was never like, oh, I don't know if I'm going to finish the 1006 00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:20,320 GR 20. I was just like, Oh yeah, like 1007 00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,440 we'll do this nice little hike on the GR20. 1008 00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,000 It'll be fine. You know, I learned a lot about 1009 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,760 France and Corsica and like those sorts of things, but from 1010 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,920 like a outdoor point of view, it's like, you know, there was 1011 00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:35,320 never any real unknowns. So yeah, I feel like if I, if 1012 00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,280 I'm not like pushing myself or learning something, then it's 1013 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,720 kind of like, you know, it can still be enjoyable, but it 1014 00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:43,400 doesn't reach that same level of, you know, sort of 1015 00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:45,120 fulfillment. Yeah. 1016 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,520 Do we have to change sports now to get that again? 1017 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:49,880 That's what I'm saying. That's that's one of the cool 1018 00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:52,000 things about, you know, switching, doing long distance 1019 00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,000 biking or rafting or running. It's because like you're just 1020 00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:57,680 throwing yourself back into that like, oh God, now I'm like 1021 00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:01,000 completely out of my element again and everything is new and 1022 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:03,880 you know, let's see how it goes. So yeah. 1023 00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:06,680 Yeah. What it What do you wanted? 1024 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,320 What haven't you done that you want to do to get get that 1025 00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:13,360 feeling again? It's kind of, I don't know, one 1026 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,600 of the things that's been like kind of scratching my brain for 1027 00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:19,800 a while that's a little different, I guess, but could be 1028 00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,440 incorporated somehow, is like, I really want to start paragoning. 1029 00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:25,840 I that wasn't when I was asking the question. 1030 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,600 I was going to like make a joke about something like that, but 1031 00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,480 really OK. Yeah, I don't know, Like, it's 1032 00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:37,240 like, it just seems so cool. And you can do like, ultralight 1033 00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:40,280 paragliding and get just like a tiny wing and like, fly up to 1034 00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,040 like a Ridge and like, you know, hike and then fly back down. 1035 00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:46,200 And just, it seems like a really cool way to, like, open new 1036 00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:48,760 terrain to yourself. I don't know, it seems, and my 1037 00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,720 buddy actually from France who started the GR20 with us, he 1038 00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:55,360 just started doing it as well. And it was so funny because he's 1039 00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:56,480 like, you know what I want to start doing. 1040 00:53:56,480 --> 00:53:58,640 And I was like paragliding. He's like, yes, I was like what? 1041 00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:00,840 I was like, wow. I was like, let's do it. 1042 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:04,840 So I don't know. It's, it's definitely, it's on 1043 00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:06,680 the list. It's and that's kind of how 1044 00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:09,240 things that I do come to be. They're kind of like just start 1045 00:54:09,240 --> 00:54:11,720 as an idea in my head. And then if they stick around 1046 00:54:11,720 --> 00:54:13,880 long enough then I sort of end up following through with them. 1047 00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:16,800 Wow, how? How do you even start 1048 00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:18,520 paragliding? Do you have to know someone? 1049 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,920 Do you take lessons? Do you just start praying? 1050 00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:24,960 You got to go to a school, you really have to, you know, like 1051 00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:26,800 go somewhere and have somebody teach you what to do. 1052 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,160 And there's like, you know, different certification levels 1053 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:32,760 and, you know, I don't think it's the kind of thing you just 1054 00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,480 buy a buy a shoot and then start going. 1055 00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,320 But. That's tough. 1056 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:38,960 Because that's my favorite style. 1057 00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,800 I like just buying the gear and figure it out, but this seems 1058 00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:43,640 like not the activity to do that with. 1059 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,680 I'm kind of running out of activities to do that with I 1060 00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,000 feel like. How about long distance 1061 00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:51,120 swimming? It's like swim across the 1062 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:54,640 English Channel. I've thought about it before, it 1063 00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,680 just sounds so boring, like I don't know. 1064 00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,880 Yeah, you wouldn't do it for the views, that's for sure. 1065 00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:06,080 No, no, but I don't know. I've talked to people who have 1066 00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,200 done big swims and I'm always like, that's cool. 1067 00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,040 And like, you know, that's the kind of thing that makes me want 1068 00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:12,160 to do something is like, if somebody tells me about it and 1069 00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:14,200 my reaction is like, oh, that's cool. 1070 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,720 Like then I'm like, oh, OK, well, maybe, maybe I want to do 1071 00:55:16,720 --> 00:55:18,040 that too. But yeah, swimming. 1072 00:55:18,920 --> 00:55:22,720 I don't know. OK, yeah, I don't know. 1073 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,360 I think it's, I think I would be doing it for the wrong reasons. 1074 00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:27,760 The more I think about it. I just want to say I did it 1075 00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:31,520 rather than the experience of just staring into the endless 1076 00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:35,760 depths of the of the sea. So I don't know, be a tough 1077 00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,720 sell. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I've 1078 00:55:38,720 --> 00:55:41,000 been doing a lot more snow stuff recently too. 1079 00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,320 Or I mean last winter and then this winter again. 1080 00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:47,080 I'll be up in Canada all winter, so snow stuff's been fun. 1081 00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:49,960 So stuff's a little scary though because I'm scared of 1082 00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,160 avalanches, but. Yeah, as you should be. 1083 00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,400 So what? What's next? 1084 00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:58,080 What do you what do you have on the docket and how does your 1085 00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,240 year shake out? Do you ever spend time living in 1086 00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:07,560 a the same place for a while? Not probably by most people. 1087 00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:09,800 Like, by most people's standards, it's like I either 1088 00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,720 have very long vacations or I have like, very short permanent 1089 00:56:13,720 --> 00:56:17,720 living situation. Yeah, Like right now I'm in 1090 00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:22,800 Brazil for the next month, mostly just working and then 1091 00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:27,520 heading to Japan for what's probably going to be like 4 1092 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,640 weeks of hiking across, you know, the main island of Japan. 1093 00:56:31,240 --> 00:56:36,800 And yeah, hopefully I have a wedding to go to right before we 1094 00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:38,520 fly out there. Otherwise I'd be going a little 1095 00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:40,720 bit earlier. But that's another unknown is 1096 00:56:40,720 --> 00:56:43,360 like we're kind of going to be racing against the winter. 1097 00:56:43,360 --> 00:56:45,480 Like if Japan gets an early winter, then we're either going 1098 00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,360 to have to bail or I don't know, figure something else out 1099 00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:53,400 because the Hudson, Japan aren't going to be open when we're 1100 00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,000 hiking past most of them. So that'll be interesting. 1101 00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,320 So you have to carry food. That'll be tough. 1102 00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:03,320 Yeah, carry food, carry food, carry fuel, carry water. 1103 00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:06,560 Yeah, All right. The last thing I want to hit on 1104 00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,640 is we talked about like a bunch of adventures, what you do, but 1105 00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:14,720 like, how is your life set up? Like I want to like, it must be 1106 00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:17,880 a lot of work to do what you're doing or organize the next thing 1107 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,240 too. And I think that's often lost 1108 00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,000 upon people when it's like a someone gets to do all these 1109 00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,280 cool things. But I think before this we 1110 00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:29,680 talked how when you're not doing something or between, there's 1111 00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:33,240 like a bunch of work involved. So how do you structure this so 1112 00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:36,560 that you can create this life that involves cool stuff, but 1113 00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:39,720 it's not without work too? Yeah. 1114 00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,120 I mean, it's basically just extended periods of work and 1115 00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,440 then extended periods of play. Like I said, I'm going to be in 1116 00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,640 Brazil for the next month, but I'm not going to be. 1117 00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,280 I'm probably just going to be 90% of the time sitting in a 1118 00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,880 Airbnb, you know, writing articles about the things that 1119 00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,880 I've done for the last couple of months and about the things I'm 1120 00:57:56,880 --> 00:57:59,880 going to be doing for the next couple of months and hopefully 1121 00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:02,960 get enough stuff, you know, scheduled in the queue that, you 1122 00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,000 know, then I can not worry about writing while I'm in Japan. 1123 00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,560 And then I come back from Japan and Oh my God, everything that 1124 00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:11,680 I've written has already been posted and I'm back at square 1 1125 00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:13,360 and let me just sit around for another month. 1126 00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:15,000 Just like working in front of my computer. 1127 00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:25,400 So I don't know, I get kind of yes, kind of no, It's it it I 1128 00:58:25,400 --> 00:58:28,720 did actually look my partner earlier, like the last month and 1129 00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:33,440 I was like, I feel like we need a vacation, like a like a 1130 00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:38,600 vacation like where we're not like doing some long, you know, 1131 00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:40,360 some physical challenge every day. 1132 00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:43,040 And I was like, I don't like go somewhere we can just like sit 1133 00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:45,480 at the beach or something. And, and so I was like, oh, 1134 00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:47,440 maybe we'll go to Hawaii. And then like I caught myself. 1135 00:58:47,440 --> 00:58:49,560 The first thing I was doing was like researching like how to 1136 00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:52,120 circumnavigate like the Big Island of Hawaii and like, and I 1137 00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:54,640 was like, wait, wait, no, like that's not stop, stop doing 1138 00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:56,640 that. That's not that's not a vacation 1139 00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,280 like so. Yeah, you could have just done 1140 00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:01,280 that in Corsica. It's known for their beaches, 1141 00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:03,880 don't you know? I know, Yeah, I know. 1142 00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:08,520 Actually we did meet people who were riding something they 1143 00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:12,360 called the GT20, which is like a bike packing route across 1144 00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:13,720 Corsica. That actually I was like, oh, 1145 00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:18,000 actually like, I don't know, we took the train back from the 1146 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,400 northern, you know, the northwest side back to Bastia on 1147 00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:24,360 the east side and looking at like all those little roads and 1148 00:59:24,360 --> 00:59:26,240 dirt roads and stuff. I was like, this actually might 1149 00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,720 be a pretty cool place to come and do like a bike tour. 1150 00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:32,320 Yeah, traveling with a bike would be rough, but I guess it 1151 00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:34,080 is a ferry so it's not a big deal. 1152 00:59:35,240 --> 00:59:37,280 Yeah, no, I've flown with the bike a couple of times. 1153 00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:41,800 It's definitely adds another layer of, you know, pain in the 1154 00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:43,800 butt, but it's, it's, it's doable. 1155 00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:48,760 Yeah, OK, So halfwayanywhere.com, that's the 1156 00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:49,520 spot. What? 1157 00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:52,360 What's coming out soon? Your GR20 at some point. 1158 00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:55,960 My GR20, yeah, right up. I'm like halfway through I think 1159 00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:57,400 today. I just finished the right up for 1160 00:59:57,400 --> 01:00:01,400 day six. Yeah, I don't know, GR 20 stuff, 1161 01:00:01,480 --> 01:00:04,840 Japan beta stuff, stuff. I just, I just got done. 1162 01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:10,360 I can improve some Peru stuff. You know, just whatever, 1163 01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,880 whatever I have like, you know, it's actually maybe I do get a 1164 01:00:12,880 --> 01:00:14,960 little bit of burnout. I have like 30 half finished 1165 01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:16,920 articles. You know, I'll get like halfway 1166 01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:19,400 through something and I'll just be like, oh, I can't think about 1167 01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:21,040 this anymore. And then just completely switch 1168 01:00:21,040 --> 01:00:22,280 and start writing about something else. 1169 01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:24,680 And then I'll be like, OK, now I need to do something about my 1170 01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:29,240 drafts folder because this is. Yeah, and the pressure to finish 1171 01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:33,080 it before the next adventure. Oh my God, I still, I still 1172 01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:37,040 haven't, I've made the mistake of starting like a, a weekly CDT 1173 01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:39,440 journal on the website. Like, you know, back in 2017 1174 01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:43,880 when I did the CDT and I, I never finished the write ups for 1175 01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:47,920 like week 17 and 18, like the last two weeks and people still 1176 01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,640 e-mail me like where are week 17 and 18. 1177 01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:52,680 I'm like, I'm sorry. Like I know it's my greatest 1178 01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:55,520 shame. Like I promise one day I will 1179 01:00:55,520 --> 01:01:01,520 maybe get back to writing. 10 year anniversary next year is 1180 01:01:01,520 --> 01:01:05,040 when you put those out finally. That's a good idea, yes. 10 year 1181 01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:07,120 anniversary. Put a deadline on it. 1182 01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:09,040 That's the only way it'll get done, yeah. 1183 01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:13,200 Yeah, exactly. Well, thank you Mac from It's 1184 01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:16,520 Always Sunny for joining It's. Yep, don't worry. 1185 01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,760 I know you don't think you look like him, but apparently you do 1186 01:01:20,760 --> 01:01:22,800 if that's your trial name. Do you? 1187 01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:26,560 I not that much honestly, but. What? 1188 01:01:26,560 --> 01:01:28,520 What about 14 years ago when I got my? 1189 01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:33,440 Yeah, I I'd have to, I'd have to read your blog to read the 1190 01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:37,080 intense detail you go into about your appearance to really 1191 01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:38,720 decide. But exactly. 1192 01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:43,560 Yeah, I don't know, Trail names are so funny, but you know, they 1193 01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:47,600 they stick with us forever. Yeah, it allows me to have for a 1194 01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:48,920 while. I was, you know, people would 1195 01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:50,880 e-mail me and they're like, oh, I was talking to Mac and I was 1196 01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,120 like, oh, no, that's me. Like we're the same person. 1197 01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,840 Just act like you have a incredible amount of staff on on 1198 01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:00,040 board to Mac's just learning riders. 1199 01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:03,680 That's just more work, actually. Yeah. 1200 01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:07,680 Well, thanks for joining. I appreciate you putting up with 1201 01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:09,960 the questions. Little Corsica, little survey 1202 01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:14,880 stuff, little other stuff, bike packing and I hope your your 1203 01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:16,520 time working in Brazil goes well. 1204 01:02:17,280 --> 01:02:20,240 Yeah, no, thanks for having me. This is my whole life so I love 1205 01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:24,320 talking about it. That's crazy but also fun, but 1206 01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:26,400 also could be burnout. Yeah. 1207 01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:30,680 Thank you guys for listening to the show. 1208 01:02:31,280 --> 01:02:33,240 The show's also brought to you by Garage Grown Gear. 1209 01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:36,920 Garage Grown gear.com. What do I love over there right 1210 01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:39,160 now? Well, I'm getting Allison a 1211 01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:42,000 backpack for her birthday, a new one because she's been using an 1212 01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:46,720 old one of mine and she's proven that she likes to backpack. 1213 01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:50,120 So I think it's really big when before you jump in. 1214 01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:53,120 Like if you're new to trail running, I wouldn't say go buy 1215 01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:57,280 all the new stuff, new shoes, expensive everything. 1216 01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:00,800 I'd say like run in what you have and make sure you love it 1217 01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:05,160 and then just scale as you decide how much of your life you 1218 01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:07,200 want it to be. I think that's how things should 1219 01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:09,800 be. So Allison, it's been proven and 1220 01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:11,240 we've had a lot of great backpacking trips. 1221 01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:14,560 We're going to go backpacking next week too that. 1222 01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,440 She. Is into it so now it's time 1223 01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:21,160 let's get some more specific better gear that's more suited 1224 01:03:21,160 --> 01:03:25,320 to her and her size. Not my 6 foot 2 frame that you 1225 01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:27,440 know. World beater over here for FK 1226 01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:32,440 TS. Just kidding, but sometimes so 1227 01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:35,200 getting a pack over there. They also have footwear socks. 1228 01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:39,400 I really like the exo skin socks and yeah, go over check out 1229 01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:43,920 garagegrowngear.com. I am going to be in the Sierra 1230 01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:46,720 next week and it's going to be fantastic. 1231 01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:49,760 It's truly one of my favorite areas, mostly become because it 1232 01:03:49,760 --> 01:03:53,000 comes with those emotional memories of my early days of 1233 01:03:53,000 --> 01:03:55,480 backpacking, learning to backpack on the Pacific Crest 1234 01:03:55,480 --> 01:03:58,840 Trail, figuring it out when I didn't have a home and I didn't 1235 01:03:58,840 --> 01:04:01,960 have a car. I spent months training in the 1236 01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,320 Sierra. I would just use all my money to 1237 01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:09,800 go to what's it called, Grocery Outlet, bargain Market. 1238 01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,760 That's where I'd resupply a lot because it was the cheapest. 1239 01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:16,640 And that's what I did for my FK TS in 2019. 1240 01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:19,680 That's sort of how I trained for everything and it just has a 1241 01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:23,800 special place in my heart. So as we go through these times 1242 01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:26,760 where we see a lot of negativity and stuff, just think of the the 1243 01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:29,600 special times or the special memories or special activities 1244 01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:32,000 that you've had throughout your life, even if it's childhood, 1245 01:04:32,440 --> 01:04:35,880 maybe revisit those. Get a little bit of that like 1246 01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:41,360 self inspiration that that pull back into, OK, I have had these 1247 01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:44,280 really cool times. I should revisit them or maybe 1248 01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:48,440 that race that was really cool. It's OK to live in the past a 1249 01:04:48,440 --> 01:04:51,320 little bit, especially if it's going to guide how you're going 1250 01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:54,840 to make these decisions into the future and what you want to be 1251 01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:57,800 when you grow up. But also you never have to grow 1252 01:04:57,800 --> 01:04:59,480 up. I've always thought the Peter 1253 01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,240 Pan mantra was pretty cool. We can have a little bit of kid 1254 01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:06,520 in us all the time as long as we take care of our 1255 01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:09,760 responsibilities to society. But tone at the top, it doesn't 1256 01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:11,200 look like our president is doing that. 1257 01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:13,920 All right with that. Not going to get political on 1258 01:05:13,920 --> 01:05:16,560 you yet. Stay elite, my friends.