For the past few years I've started this really weird
tradition where I race a 5K in Crocs.
Now the first year I did it, I think it was 2021 or 2022 and I
didn't know the course. Typical me.
I didn't look up anything ahead of time.
But I did buy Crocs and make sure.
This is the key. If you're going to race in
Crocs, you've got to have the right socks.
So Crocs and socks, it's the style.
But that year I think I ran around a 19 flat or something.
And then Runners World went on to write an article titled This
athlete ran or runs five KS in Crocs.
But here's why you shouldn't do it.
So I, I felt a little bit of the vitriol of big media, big
running saying don't run in Crocs.
So what did I do? I leaned back in, I continued to
lean in, and this past weekend I went ahead and went after my
Crocs PR again. Now it wasn't really a perfect
build. I didn't really respect
anything. I actually did 3 speed workouts
in the seven days leading up to it.
I'm in this phase where after the Appalachian Trail and a
quick turn around into volume invert for Berkeley marathons
and then into Cocodona training, which was heavy on volume and
right into Europe and backpacking over 300 miles there
and running a race as well, I finally went back to the basics.
I just finally had a couple months where I didn't need to do
crazy volume and I could really lean into speed because I can
get fitter. It's pretty much it's the first
time in a year, it's been over a year since I started the
Appalachian Trail record attempt.
And it's really been the first time for over that year that I
haven't had this really big, what would be like a bucket list
goal for some people looming that I had to immerse myself
into specificity. And in the last episode I kind
of talked about my training philosophy, but I really wanted
a period of time where I could focus more on speed and getting
fitter in raising my aerobic ceiling, hitting some DO 2 Max
work. So I've been doing a lot of
track work actually. And I'm I'm not a great track
athlete. I very little experience on the
track. Actually in middle school
though, I was the fastest in the district at the 100 meter
hurdles. So take that, but I feel like
it's a really good place. I like to once in a while train
by distance, especially in the interval setting.
So I've been doing a lot of eight hundreds, some 4 hundreds
worked in just to push some of that top speed.
One reason we're getting in the weeds in a bit of a tangent
here, but that's OK. But one reason is there's a few
studies out there that show that when you run hard, like you let
go of thinking about form and queues and stuff, your body will
naturally find its most efficient way to run.
And that's why a lot of coaches and a lot of training plans have
strides on them is when you get that turnover, you're pushing
really hard, your body will naturally lean into the most
efficient way that physiologically it can run.
And this will differ from person to person.
You can see it in how people run.
But hitting those queues and getting that reinforcement of
what your form should look can feel like from those faster
reps, even if they're short, even if they're 20 or 30 seconds
can be really big as you build longer volume and into more
specificity for whatever event you're doing.
So incorporate strides once a week.
There's your PSA per SE. And if you want to coach, I have
a couple athlete spots that open at the OR that opened at the end
of last month. So hit me up
jeff@freeoutside.com. But anyways, this Crocs 5 Ki
just thought it's been a fun way to do something different.
I've always thought Crocs are fun.
They're comfortable, I've loved them.
I took them on my first Pacific Crest Trail through hike.
They were my camp shoe. And when you're carrying a 55 LB
pack, who cares if you have a couple extra pounds of Crocs on
your back? But this week, this weekend, it
was the anniversary of the first time I went for my PR.
And since I I had a pretty big week, I ran about 20 miles the
day before with I think it was like 6000 feet of gain.
But anyways, I figured I was in pretty good shape.
I was going to be a little worn down, definitely not rested or
tapered for a 5K, but the goal was to break 19.
I actually don't remember what my true 5 KPR was, but I just
decided this time would be my new PR moving forward as long as
I broke 19. So I put on my Crocs, I got up
the butt crack of dawn and I jogged real slowly down to the
start line with Allison Powell, my fiance.
I always say her last name because the other Allison,
Allison Mercer comes on so much. And I know that it could be
confusing if if you're you're following the Allison's.
We need like one of those things with yarn and and pins between
them on who's on what episode. But we jogged down there, she
was doing like a 10 mile run with the 5K as part of it.
So kudos and bonus points to her.
It was pretty smoky. Was definitely feeling the smoke
from the other day. But just knew that I could smart
pace my way to a sub 19. So that's what I did.
I started out this is so weird to give a recap of a 5K because
it's definitely nothing elite, but I started out first mile you
go about a half a mile and then you turn onto this gravel trail
called the gallagator. What a name right right through
town. It's a great trail and from I
ran like a 610 first mile. From there second mile the first
half is still uphill. You gain about 80 feet in this
very difficult 5K at 5000 feet of altitude no less.
Second mile about, I don't know, 625 or something not not my best
mile. I was not feeling good.
So I have 4 pairs of Crocs. Someone recently asked me how
many pairs and I wore my pair that was in the best shape.
But upon reflection, I wish I'd worn my softer, more broken in
pair because I think it would have felt more comfortable in my
feet because within a mile my feet started hurting.
I hadn't trained enough in Crocs.
If you're going to race in Crocs, you have to train your
feet for Crocs. Remember specificity.
So got through that mile and it was like, OK, if I run a sub six
final mile, I'll definitely be able to get sub 18.
So I ran, I don't know, maybe a 540.
Finished in 1852, a sub 19 minute 5K and we're just going
to call it my Crocs PR. Is it that much faster than my
PR would be in regular shoes? Probably not, but I've never run
5K in super shoes or anything performance motivated, but I've.
It's just a. Fun way and I think these are
really key and maybe this is the lesson or take away if you're
looking for one, is that incorporating some way to have
enjoyment or a goal that means something to you but doesn't
have to mean something to everyone else.
I think it's really key because then you get that piece of your
identity, not that thing that depends on everyone else not
that you're doing something for everyone else, but that it's
that fun quirky thing that makes you smile when you think about
it but everyone else can think it's dumb.
I think those are key parts of what make us how we are.
So that's what the story of running my Crocs PR5K is.
So I think yeah, moving forward I'll I'm going to try to do it
every year. I'm sure I could be in the
seventeens at some point. That would be pretty cool.
So that's kind of the the longer term goal.
May probably my a goal for the rest of my life is run a sub 18
minute 5K in Crocs. I think it's very doable on the
right course because altitude adjusted.
I believe mine would have been about 1815.
I think it's so dumb when pros do that because it's like, we
didn't actually run that time, but just because it's a podcast
and I have the ability to ramble on here.
So that is the story of my weekend.
Find the goals and don't be afraid to do the things that
don't make sense to your parents, don't make sense to all
your friends, don't make sense to anyone.
But also lean into the people who are OK with supporting you
doing something that doesn't make sense.
I think that's the fun of all this.
I mean, seems like the world's a dumpster fire right now and
we're losing some of the the contact with each other and
there's so much judgement. I saw this one thing the other
day is reading an article about how people just don't really
dance at clubs or nightclubs or bars or music events in the same
way that they used to. And the hypothesis was a big
reason was because there were, there's phones and cameras
everywhere and people are embarrassed to get recorded or
made fun of. And I think that's very true.
But I think if we uplift or let people do these things that
don't impact anyone else, it doesn't matter how the other
person is dressed next to you on the start line, as long as
they're not infringing on your experience.
Just let that be them. And either let that be it or
support them for their ability to be like that.
Let people dance. You don't have to record them.
Take less photos with your phone.
I read another study recently that was like the more photos
that you take during a vacation, the less implied happiness that
you you have when you re evaluate that vacation in the
future. Like they're really good
reminders and I think they're fun to see and remember stuff,
but not everything has to be a photo.
Some of it can live in that emotional, emotionally guided
memory that you have of the event.
That's kind of how I explored Europe too.
Is could have taken photos of cathedrals that I saw and stuff
like that, but instead I'd want to look at them and then read
the the sign on the history or learn about it, walk inside.
Just let the the feeling, the emotion, the the ambiance, the
vibe overtake anything rather than just snapping 20 photos of
it and moving on. So with that today's episode in
the show we're going well the direction we've always gone,
which is curiosity, interest, adventure and fun.
We have Mack and he's named his trail name is Mack.
His real name is Tyler Fox. For those that are in the ultra
running world and don't like fun nicknames that don't make sense,
go back to their about 5 minutes ago when I was talking about
leaning into those things that may not make sense to you but
can be fun for everybody. So Mack, he runs a site
halfwayanywhere.com you should check it out has so much good
info from gear to adventures stuff all over the world.
He's traveled and we kind of talk about that on, he doesn't
necessarily have a home base, but he'll spend like a month
somewhere catching up on writing and kind of comes from that
world of bloggers back in the day, but now has really branched
out. He puts out a survey on a number
of trails at the end of the year on what people took.
So if you're like nervous, what do I take on my first
backpacking trip? His website's a great place to
start because it's surveys through hikers and especially
those that were successful and not successful for that kind of
info. So we talked to him, but we have
a great conversation about the GR20.
He actually did it about a month before me.
And we just talk about like our opinions of it, our expectations
versus reality, and then we get a little deeper and further out
from there. So it's a really fun combo.
I think you're going to like it. This show is brought to you by
John GJANJ, i.com. They have their summer restock
that just launched, and that means that all the stuff that
was out of stock when I was still telling you to go there
and you couldn't buy anything is in stock.
I really like the multi shorts. I've run Cocona 250 in them.
I've run 100 milers in them. They work really good.
They've really reduced a lot of chafing.
I've seen a lot of them just around as well without me
promoting it. And I've also used the Revi pack
around town a lot, just like going to the coffee shop or
sometimes I'll like run commute to the library to print
something out. I just had to change my voter
registration, PSA register to vote.
I mean, there's one way that we think we can make our voice
heard and it's voting. So that's the easiest.
So it's just all start there. It could take 2030 minutes of
your time, but if we can change the course of history, we should
all do that. So the Revi pack, I've just
found it a really good functional pack.
Or when you're going to drive up to the mountains or if you're a
flat land person, drive to a trailhead or something.
You just throw everything in your pack you're going to need
for that and also what you're going to want for after the run.
So jonju.com, use code free outside for 10% off.
OK, here is Tyler Mack box. Thank you guys for listening
Smash that subscribe button if you haven't.
It really does help the show and I can keep getting on really
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use it. Those numbers, they help me out
and it's free to you. OK, here's Mac.
All right, we are live with Mac. How would how would you describe
yourself? What what are you like through
hiker? You've done Smulter running, but
yeah, how would you even describe what you do in life?
No, yeah, I know. It's it's still a question I
struggle with, like not sound. I don't know.
I tell people I like to do endurance outdoor activities,
like anything you can do outside for like a long period of time,
like that's, you know, whether it's rafting or biking or
running or hiking, like just the longest versions of things is I
don't know what I'm a previewer of these days.
And so like when you did 100 Miller, it was too short.
You had to jump back into the longer stuff.
Yeah, well, I mean, I started with 100 Miller and I was going
to do it. I was signed up for the the Moab
like 240 or 250 or whatever it was.
But then I forget what it was, but something happened that year
and it kind of derailed it for me.
And so that's still on my list. I don't know, that just takes.
So like the thing about that is it's just so much prep, you know
what I mean? Like it's the training that
really, you know, you can't just like, go.
Yeah, it it is a big difference. You can like hike your way into
shape on a thru hike versus an ultra.
You kind of just have to show up in shape.
Exactly. Yeah.
It's like, here's your one shot, go and do it like this day.
Like so you know, it's a little different, but I know I still
enjoyed it. It was a fun, fun experience
getting into that world a little bit.
Yeah, dabble in all the world's. That's what I guess I've decided
to do too. But we're both just incredible
finishers of the GR 20 this year.
So one of probably thousands at this point, maybe 10s of
thousands, but. Congratulations to us all.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. We have our probably finishers
or ticket belt buckle probably sponsors lined up.
Yeah. Do you feel you feel the same?
Yeah, Europe's hardest hike. That's exactly where I wanted to
start. Is it actually the toughest
trail in Europe? What was your opinion?
I mean, it's no has to be the answer.
I mean, I feel like it must earn that reputation from being like
simultaneously like a very an extremely popular trail and also
it is a very rugged trail. It is a very steep trail.
And so, you know, I feel like if people approach it the same way
they approach like, I don't know, maybe some more, I don't
know, beginner friendly trails. Like it's not necessarily a
trail that you could just show up and do if you'd like.
Literally never backpacked before.
It would be a very hard trail to be like your first big
backpacking trip. So maybe that's where it gets
its reputation from. I don't know.
Yeah. And yeah, we come at it from a
little different scenario of having done hard things, long
things, but there were a lot of people that look like it might
be their first time tracking a long trail out there.
So I don't know. Did you see a lot of people out
there? Cuz we went about a month apart.
I feel like I, I, I mean, for me it was a lot of people.
Like there was multiple times I said to myself, like, there's
already too many people on this trail for me.
But I knew that it was nowhere near the level of crowded that
it was going to become. Like there was a couple of
refugios that we stayed at where, you know, there was less
than 10 people there probably at the refugio.
And I talked to people on our very last day, which was also
the most crowded day. And they were like, Oh no, like
this is nothing compared to peak season.
Like there could be 4 times as many people here.
And I was like, OK, so I can only imagine what it was like,
you know, late June. Yeah.
So how did how did you hear about it?
Because it's very people knew about it in Europe, but over
here it seems a lot lesser known.
And as Fat Corsica in general, people don't even know that it's
not even a country. You say to people like, oh, I'm
going to Corsica and they kind of do that thing with like, oh,
yeah. And I'm like, you know what that
is like I'm like spider France, like, OK, like like a silent,
like, OK, I don't know. I had, I had some friends that
did it a while ago. Like it kind of always like, you
know, like when I did the HRPI, you know, that parallels the GR
10 and the GR 11. And the GR 20 is probably like
one of the other big numbers as far as popular GR hikes.
And yeah, my partner and I were going over to Europe and we were
kind of thinking, we're like, oh, it's may.
Like there's going to be a lot of snow in the Alps.
Like where could we go do a hike that, you know, would be
relatively snow free? And so we landed on the GR20.
Yeah, I wish I'd done it closer to when you'd done it instead.
That's when I did the Tour to Mount Blanc, so I had some good
snow and not a lot of people on that one.
And then I had a race in Germany and then ended up in the GR 20.
But it was just starting to get packed with people by the time I
did it. And also there was the heat wave
too, so. I had the.
Double whammy out there. But yeah, what?
What was it? Had you done any hiking like
that before? Have you been a big Hut person?
I read about your Pyrenees hike so some.
Yeah, the Pyrenees was kind of like, I did that in the fall and
it was like pretty late in the fall.
So it was also like some of the huts were closed.
A lot of the huts like weren't crowded at all.
You know, the this was the first time I've been on a trail where
it's like you're, you have to stay at the huts or you have to
stay around the huts. Which like, at first I was like,
but then like, after being out there and seeing how many people
there were in the landscape and stuff, I was like, oh, I get it.
Like if they just let everybody camp everywhere on this trail,
it would, you know, it'd be destroyed.
It bothered me on the 1st day for sure, but then it came
around to like yeah you can't have this much dispersed camping
or everything would be destroyed.
Yeah, yeah. So I mean, it made sense
ultimately, but I mean, it was kind of weird having like my
days planned out ahead of time and sticking to the schedule.
And then the huts, it's like we didn't really take advantage of
the huts because we slept in our tents.
Yeah, I'm kind of glad we didn't sleep in the huts.
Like, apparently bed bugs are a really big thing.
And, you know, like, you're sleeping like literally inches
away from another person and people are getting up to pee and
people are snoring. And like, I don't know, I'm much
more comfortable in my TUT. Like I'd pay more to not have to
sleep in the Hut. And like, these huts didn't
necessarily. I don't know, I guess it was
nice getting a sandwich for lunch or like a Coke for lunch
every day. Like we didn't do any of the
dinners at the huts, but. I don't know.
Yeah, it was definitely different from other huts and
other hiking that I've done in the past.
Yeah, and you, I message you a little bit, 'cause you just done
it and you were the main thing I took away other than some
different beta was just like, yeah, take advantage of the
sandwiches. That was such like a nice 1
compared to what I could pack. So there were some benefits to
the huts. But I also realized like a lot
of the the Europeans would finish their day at a refugio or
Hut or bivouac at like 2:00 PM too.
Did you notice that too? Like the schedule was very
different than how I usually hike.
Yeah, they'd finish very early and like, you know, cuz it's 16
stages and it's like 112 miles or something.
And a lot of people do like one stage per day.
So it's like some stages are like 6 miles long.
Yep. And so it's like, it's, you
know, even if you went, you know, half a mile an hour, like,
you could still do it in a whole day.
Like, yeah, like, we had this thing happen in the beginning.
Like, people were like, really dependent on the huts.
I felt like, like they weren't bringing anything because the
first two days was super cloudy for us.
And so apparently it was like, right at the beginning of the
season when everybody was first restocking the huts and they
were like, oh, the helicopters, like the people at the huts were
like, apologizing. And at this point it was nice
because our friends started with us who spoke French so we could
actually communicate with people.
But so like the helicopters didn't resupply the huts for
like 2 days or something. And people were like, we have no
food. They're like we didn't, we
didn't bring any food. I was like, you have no food,
like and like we have no food and we can't buy any of the
huts. And I was like, you didn't bring
any food. Like, it was just so bizarre to
me that like, you would go on a hike like this and like not
bring any food like so. Yeah.
Definitely different like attitude about the huts.
Totally. There were people with like 15
liter packs out there because they'd rent the tents that were
set up at the huts as well and they just buy dinner there.
People drank a lot of beer. And there was also like no
English. Hardly anyone spoke English.
You messaged me that. So I downloaded Google
Translate. But that was that was an
interesting, unexpected thing too, because the rest of Europe,
English was everywhere. I know and like, not only did
people not speak English, people only spoke French because
between my partner and I, we have English, Italian,
Portuguese and Spanish. And so we'd like, and so like,
and they'd just be like, no French.
And so like, you know, it was frustrating because, you know,
our buddy got injured. So he left on like, the third
day. And after that, it was just
like, we went from being able to talk to everybody to, like,
literally being able to talk to nobody.
It was until the very end when we like, finally, we like, saw
some people sitting at a table. And I was like, those people are
German, They speak English. We should go talk to them so we
can talk to somebody. Like.
But yeah, it was like pretty surprising.
I mean, I guess I don't know, like you said, it's like a
lesser known trail like in France that like not a lot of
people know about South. Most of the people out there
unsurprisingly, were French. But yeah, it's definitely,
definitely not catering to the international crowd.
Yeah. What did you think of the actual
trail? Because you said you rented
Crampon, so it was a little snowy tactical.
Out there. Yeah, like, I don't know.
We were like, we knew there was going to be snow And you know,
the thing was we couldn't have because even if you can have a
real conversation with somebody, people don't necessarily like
know your experience. And so like if somebody it's
like the first time they've ever been through snow, they'll just
be like, Oh my God, I was like so crazy.
You definitely need crampons. Like we had crampons.
And so like to one find somebody like who kind of understands
your level and to understand somebody who's like going to
give you like accurate beta like was completely just like, you
know, it wasn't going to happen for us.
So we everyone we saw had like people have like full on
mountaineering boots and like crampons and stuff.
And I'd be like, surely we don't need mountaineering boots.
But then we got to like the Hut right before the high point And
we were talking to the guy there who's actually like the nicest
Hut keeper man employee that like we spoke to the whole time.
And he, even though he didn't speak English, was like talking
to us about the crampons. And he was like, no, no, like, I
can rent you crampons. And so it was like, I don't
know, it was like €20 for us both to rent crampons.
I was like, whatever, let's take them because I'm going to be
really mad if like, we wish that we had them halfway up that icy
slope. And then it was great.
You know, we took them all the way up, super happy to have them
use them on the way down. And we return them at the next
Hut. And it was like, no, not a
problem at all. But there was also the section
before that that was snow covered, which I don't know.
Was there snow only on the high point for you, or was there also
snow in another section before? There was, yeah, there was more
snow, but it was only on the the north slopes of things, so
possibly not on the climb like because it was 98° when I
started. So we had the heat wave melting
everything. Yeah, like there was, there was
one section, I want to say it was Section 7.
It was South of the refuge that was called like Manganu.
It was north of Ethra Piana and that section was like almost
entirely snow covered for us. But like, it wasn't necessarily
like steeper sketchy. So it was fine.
But I was like, oh, well, if there was this much snow here,
we're going like 1000 feet higher for the high point.
Like, maybe it'll be a good idea to have, you know, something
substantial on her feet. Yeah, I and I kept going through
a lot of those areas in the afternoon and I just thought the
sunsets and things were fantastic.
So I was trying to be out there for them.
But I had so many people concerned for like my well-being
like, you know, it's like 10 kilometers to the next bivouac
and it's like, Yep, I'm, I'm aware, like I'm going to make it
like don't don't worry. But there was so much of that.
And I think it is interesting you saying that coming from both
the PCT like 15 years ago when there weren't the resources that
exist today, unlike the the fear mongering or the fear going into
things like leading into like, well, I don't you can't be up
that high at 6:00 PM. No one does that.
Or like you're going to need crampons.
And but yeah, there were so many people with heavy boots and
mountaineering pants on especially.
And it'd be like 100°, but they're dressed like they're
they're doing Everest or something.
Oh yeah, no, we were definitely like, everybody be like shorts
like, yeah, yeah. So it's nice out here.
Like we actually hit like, with the exception of it being cloudy
the first two days, the weather we had was like absolutely
beautiful. Like we had no storms any days,
like just a little spot of rain on the first day, like.
And then, yeah, the last day dropping down to the ocean was
like it started getting hot. And that was another thing.
I thought I was like, man, I can't imagine being here when
it's any hotter. And then especially in a heat
wave like must have been so. But there's water everywhere.
Like I think that was the biggest surprise of like I could
get in creeks or swim and then all the huts had water too.
It was a very different aspect. Having done a lot of desert
hiking too is water was never an issue out there and I had a
filter but I never had to use it.
Oh yeah, We literally only got water from the huts.
We never got water from a natural source, like at any
point. It was so bizarre.
I kept being like, oh, I wonder if today's going to be the day
we're finally going to have to like filter water and like we
never had. And it would be just like, like
a stone structure with the hole in it and water flowing out.
And it's like, I guess it's good to drink.
I've no idea. I don't know.
Yeah, I'd be like, there'd be a sign if this wasn't potable,
right? Yeah, that's how I treated every
water source. They look like they were 1000
years old too, but I don't know. Trustworthy.
I mean, I didn't get sick so. Yeah, me, me neither.
How? How do you hike these?
Do you have to hike them with a bunch of notes?
Because you usually write up some resources or a trip report
or something after the fact? I'm curious on that aspect.
Most I'm actually like in the process I I like got behind on
my GR20. But what I do now is, and what I
just did for Peru is just like record a voice note every day of
everything and just have it transcribed.
And that I feel like is what I do at the end of every day.
And I'm like that plus the pictures plus the maps.
Like, I don't know, there's something about backpacking or
hiking or even just like, you know, being active outdoors that
like I can remember so much compared to just daily life.
Like if you ask me, like in 2013 when you were like hiking into
Kennedy Meadows, like what time of day was it?
And like how many people were on the porch when you got there?
And like, wait, I can like tell you everything that happened.
Like, and it's not like I made an effort to remember that day,
but it's just like, so we're but then if you're like O2 days ago,
like, you know, what'd you have for lunch?
I'm like, I don't know. But like, I can remember rolling
up a, you know, a hot dog and a tortilla like, it's South of
Burney Falls. Yeah, so true.
I I think it just, I don't know, maybe it's just like eliminates
the distractions or something when you're out there.
But yeah, it, it is so much more vivid.
So how does this hike sit kind of in your mind compared to
because you've done stuff all over the world?
What, what was your opinion of it?
Did you, Was it good, bad. Otherwise, somewhere in the
middle. I don't know.
I liked it. I would say I would.
I mean, if somebody said to me like should I go hike the GR20,
I'd be like, yeah, but like I probably wouldn't recommend.
I'd probably say hike it early season or late season for sure.
You know, it was, it was, it was nice.
Like it was beautiful. It was that place that I
wouldn't have gone to otherwise. Probably like the one thing
everybody, or at least all the French people that we met like,
or people who we talked to not on Corsico would always be like,
oh, you're going to the beach. Like you gotta go to the
beaches. The beaches were like, no, we're
like going everywhere except for the beaches.
Like, so I don't know, I feel like maybe we missed out on the
beaches, but like, I'm not really too big of a beach guy.
But yeah, I mean, course, I mean the landscape, you know, you saw
was just sometimes I'd be like, oh, I feel like I'm in the
Sierra. And then I'd be like, oh, now
it's like you're in this like it's just like a change so much
like from the altitude and from the South to the north.
And yeah, I mean, definitely don't definitely sits higher
than other hikes, but definitely I don't think I'll go back and
repeat it anytime. Yeah, I I really enjoyed the
landscape. I love the views.
I thought it was so cool seeing the Mediterranean and stuff
while on like a mountain peak. But the culture was different
than I expected. I think just in how Europeans
hiked or the parties at the Refugios and just a little
different coming from a West Coast hiker deep in my soul.
We, we only met one other person.
I don't know, because I'm sure you know, you'd have the same
thing. You can look at somebody and be
like, oh, that person's like a through hiker or like that
person's like hiked a long trail.
So like there was one day when we were like leaving somewhere
and we turned around, we saw this guy.
We're like, that's the first through hiker looking guy that
we've seen. And then we didn't see him again
until the next night. He showed up at the same refugio
as us. And then I saw like peeping out
from his his shirt sleeve. I was like, I think that guy's
got a PCT tattoo. And then I was like, have you
liked the PCT? And he was this French guy who,
like, spoke like decent English. And he's like, oh, yeah.
So like, I was like, oh, OK. Like, cool.
Like, so. And he was the first, the only
person we talked to that was like, you know, also hiking it,
like, you know, had all this stuff with him, you know,
brought all this food was, you know, hiking it And, you know,
not 16 days. Yeah, exactly.
Like carried food didn't depend on the huts for everything.
Yeah, little background and stuff.
Yeah, not a lot of people like that out there that we found.
Yeah, OK. OK, so you said not somewhere in
the middle. What's the worst through hike
you've ever done? What's the worst trail you've
ended up on? Oh, Trail.
The worst thing I ever did was definitely ride my bike across
the middle of Australia. That's like the one that stands
out is like, why did I do that? And I would never do that again
and never recommend for anybody to do that.
Like as far as longer hikes go, like I don't know.
They've all been perfect. They haven't been perfect, but
they've all been pretty good. Like they've all, they've all
mostly been things that I would definitely recommend to people
if somebody like came to me and was like, hey, should I do this
hike? OK, I.
Don't know. Yeah.
I feel like I invest enough time ahead of time to generally know
like that it'll probably be worth it.
Yeah. I mean, I think there's always
like an aspect that is worth it or a moment or a day, and that's
probably why we do this kind of stuff too.
But yeah, I think there's like this, these kind of things can
build up in your head too and maybe disappoint on certain
levels at the same time. So it's give or take.
Actually, you know what, maybe hot take, but I'd say least
favorite hike and you know, the shorter hike but not the Ruby
Crest trail was a little disappointing.
OK, yeah. It snowed on us.
We did it out and back. So it was actually an incredible
experience because it was like an adventure.
No one was there. We woke up in a foot of snow and
was like, this is so stupid. We love it.
I mean, that's cool that yeah, we did it.
We did it northbound and like, I think just two days and I don't
know, I heard everybody talk about how beautiful it is, like
the Sierra, blah, blah, blah. And then you get to the northern
section, like Lamoille Canyon or whatever.
Like this is what everybody's talking about on the rest of the
trail. I was just like, what is walking
in the desert? It's not really.
So I think that was the time I was like the most disappointed
in in a hike, I would say. It's so we did it out and back,
but the, and then we went northbound, I guess, and then
turned around and came back. But the first half of the trail
is like pretty lackluster. So knowing we had the other half
of that waiting at the end was like, OK, we'll just get through
it. But I'm so with you.
The the good part of that trail is not the whole trail.
Exactly, Yeah. So OK, I want to go back in in
time a little bit. How did you kind of start making
this through hiking website and everything your life?
How did it how did it become more than just your your hobby?
You save up vacation time for I. Mean it.
I studied abroad in Brazil in 2011 and I just like literally
started one step above a Geocities website for, you know,
people who still know what that is like.
That was just like, I'm going to write about funny things in
Brazil. And then after that, you know, I
just kind of kept writing on my little blog.
And, you know, then when I started hiking the PCT, I was
like, I guess I'm going to write about the PCT on my little blog
now. And, you know, like you said
earlier, there's, there was no information online about the
PCT. Like I was hardly even
convinced. It was like a real trail.
Like I told my dad I was like, Oh, yeah, I'm going to go to the
Mexican border. And apparently there's this
trail and you just walk and then you get to Canada.
And he's like, what? I was like, yeah, I think so.
So, you know, I started writing about that.
And, you know, as the PCT became more popular, like, people
started finding my website via the PCT.
And I don't know, I just kind of kept working on it.
You know, I moved to Japan and started writing about hiking in
Japan because there was no information in English about,
you know, any of the mountains out there.
And for a while I was like, I'm going to have a travel website
or something. And then eventually I was like,
I think I have like a hiking website actually.
And so yeah, it just kind of slowly evolved.
But I mean, you know, I started it in 2011 and then it wasn't
until like 20/17/2018 that like it actually became my full time
job. So I was.
Do you remember post holder? Yes.
I do. I was like, yeah, I was still.
I was, yeah. Was that like a journal website
or like a snow website or like? It did everything bad like it
had like, but it was good for the time.
I that's what I used in 2011 to plan the PCT, but it would have
like resupplies. It had like really rough snow
data. It had some links to journals.
So it's just like compiler? I don't know, maybe it still
exists but long since dated. But do you remember the PCTL?
Was that a listserv or something?
Yeah, the PCT listserv. No one's even gonna know what
those are. I know, I know.
It's like, it's such a, it's like this is, this is how things
used to work. You know, you tell people I'm
like, I carried paper maps on the PCT.
I'm like, there was no, there was no far out.
Like there was this app called half mile that would tell you
whether or not you were on the trail.
But my GPS didn't even work on my phone.
So like it didn't really help me very much like.
Yeah, I remember being in the Sierra and we had like a stack
of 60 maps and it's like 4 idiots trying to figure out how
compass works. Like which notch is Forester
pass? Like where should we even be
walking because it was so snow covered.
But yeah, those are the the times.
I'm curious, how did how did the the survey start?
Because I think that's, is that what you're most well known for?
Are you the survey guy? That's I think that is what I'm
most well known for. Definitely.
I mean, I started it right after I hiked the PCT in 2013, like
the first because you know, like, like I said, there was no
information. And it's like everything you
would read, I'd be like, well, I don't know if this information
is coming from like some 70 year old dude or like some like 20
year old girl. And it's like, obviously these
people are going to have two very different perspectives on
things. And so, you know, I was just
kind of like, wouldn't it be nice to kind of know the average
answer to a lot of these questions, like especially
starting date? Because you know, back then it
was like you just start whenever you want and there was no, you
know, permit lottery and everything.
So you know, when to start was like a big question.
So it was kind of like, oh, I wonder what like the average
starting date was. And yeah, that's kind of like
just how it came to be. And you know, 2013 I had, you
know, it was, it was a far cry from what it is today, but.
Yeah, it's funny that the question that led you to start
it is the most irrelevant question now.
Yeah, yeah. Like when do you start Whenever
you can get a permit is. Literally.
Yeah, exactly. Man, so so back then it was like
start date and then was it gear? But how did you find people to
answer it? I guess is like my biggest
question in 2013. I mean, in 2013, you know, like
I messaged people who I had met on the trail.
I must have. Maybe I sent it out to the
listserv. I don't remember.
Like, you know. That would have been scary.
You never know how people are going to respond.
There's probably a Facebook group that I posted in, like I'd
have to look and see, but I feel like I got, you know, maybe 100
responses the first year, which I feel like would have been
pretty good. Like now it's like close to like
800 or 900 a year. But you know, it's also turned
into, you know, it's pretty comprehensive.
Like my partner works in like surveys and data science and
stuff and she's like, it's amazing.
That, you know, you have 800 people voluntarily filling out a
survey that takes them like 2 hours and.
It keeps growing. Yeah, you you keep adding to it.
It does. And every, you know, I ask for
feedback on the survey from people who take it every year.
And the probably the two most popular things that people like
to tell me are the surveys too long and the survey is not long
enough. So it's like it's very divided,
like, you know, I, I try, I try to improve it like, you know, I
have like logic jumps and conditional questions and stuff.
So I try not to present people with questions that you know,
aren't applicable to them. But but yeah, it it gets, it
gets a little messy. Like the, the platform that I
use really wants me to upgrade to like their new system because
I'm like grandfathered into an old plan, But I don't think I
ever will because it's like 10 times the price.
But I don't know, maybe I'll have to if it if it keeps
growing like. Yeah.
Do you get more responses every year?
Like is it growing or the peaked?
It's it's kind of leveled out, which, you know, I feel like
makes like on paper it makes sense because on paper
technically there should only be X number of people who hike
through hike the PCT every year because of permits.
And so I feel like it's reached like the critical mass of that
number of people who hike because, yeah, I feel like the
last, like, you know, since COVID, it's kind of hovered
around like the same like within like 100 responses or so.
So, you know, I don't think I'm ever going to get like 5000
people filling out the survey. But, you know, I mean, from a
like a percentage of the entire population standpoint, like it's
a huge sample size. Like that's the other thing.
Some people like to send me messages and yell at that.
They're like, well, this isn't what I saw like on the trail
when I was on the trail. I'm like, well, that's why we
call this like anecdotal evidence and it's not really the
same. Yeah, it's exactly the point of
doing the survey is so that you don't just have the people
around you. Exactly.
What so in doing it now for a decade plus what since our since
our days back on the trail, what's been like the biggest
change that you that people kids do these days, these young kids?
Out there. Well, from a strictly anecdotal
point of view, I just did trail magic for three days at Onion
Valley and I, I was very surprised at how few people
appeared to be like ultralight. Like lots of people had big
backpacks. Practically everybody I felt
like had like a giant pair of camp shoes like Birkenstocks or
Crocs or like big sandals. Like I don't know, I don't know
if there's a, you know, I'm, I'm interested to see in the data
this year. Like, I don't know if there's
like a trend away from, you know, just like super ultralight
everything. Or if like maybe it's just
because all those people weren't coming out over Kearsarge to
resupply and they were just pushing through to BVR Mutual
Ranch or Mammoth or something. But I thought that was pretty
interesting. But you know, the gear is
probably the thing that's evolved the most and I think I
started doing gear in like 2016. So it's like 10 years of gear
data now. But you know, just like the
trend towards quilts, the trend towards non freestanding tense,
the trend towards, you know, just like lighter weight
backpacks, like frameless backpacks, no hip belts.
But I don't know, maybe, maybe that's maybe it's swinging the
other wind this year. Do people use boots still?
Hardly anybody. And that's, you know what, it's
so frustrating because people don't people, people don't.
Lots of people that I've learned don't really understand what
their gear is because I ask people in one question what kind
of tent they had. And then I'll ask people in
another question if their tent was freestanding, semi
freestanding or not freestanding.
And the number of people who don't know what kind of tent
they have is like shocking because I always have to go
through and just like do it manually anyways.
Or like the people who like will say they use this type of shoe,
but then they, they're like, oh, I use the Ultra Lone Peak.
And then they'll say they use the boot.
I'm like, OK, this is not a boot.
Like so, but nobody, it's, it's, it's like nobody uses boots like
less than 1% of hikers. OK, what?
What's the one topic or thing that you're most interested in
every year? Is there one that you're really
keen to to learn what happens out there or how it changed?
Like a question or topic? I don't know, I, I feel like for
me, the most interesting thing every year is just like, I like
reading people's free response questions like because I, I ask,
I ask a lot of free responses about like things that surprised
you or things that scared you or, you know, best moments on
trail. And I don't know, I feel like
those because those change the most year to year, I feel like.
Do you have a good what? What scares you when you
remember reading? I don't know.
It's been, as you see, it's, we're coming up on almost a year
now since the last survey. So I, it's all my, my brand's
been emptying out and refilling with, you know, GR 20
information since then. Yeah, fair.
OK. Another.
I'm curious though, how much does it cost to to hike say, the
PCT now? Because that's got to have
changed a ton since. Pre.
Inflation. Yeah, I keep meaning to break
that down a little bit too. I remember like back, you know,
when I hiked, people would be like, oh, it's like $1000 a
month. So, you know, if you hike in,
you hike in four months, it's $4000.
And now I think the average from domestic through hikers is
something like 10 or $11,000. Whoa.
We said like a dollar a mile you could get by on.
So that has changed a lot. A dollar a mile is ambitious and
very optimistic. That's a deal.
Well, the hostels were still like there's some like $15
hostels and stuff back then. You get by on not a lot.
And, you know, like all the trail angels haven't turned into
trail businesses. Like, people are still just
like, what are you doing? Like the Pacific Coast Trail.
Like, oh cool. Yeah, yeah.
Have you done a lot of hiking on the major trails in the US
recently? I mean, I did 1000 miles of the
PCT in 2019 and then you know, I'm around the PCT at least once
a year somewhere in the Sierra I'll usually be.
But like, I haven't really done any long hiking on the CDT or
the PCT or anything recently. It seems like trail, the trail
Angel term or style has changed as well.
Like there's businesses that dabble in trail magic but also
make money on it too. It seems like that's a changing
aspect of the trail. Has that been?
Have you noticed? Yeah, I yeah.
And I really, I don't know, I feel icky about like people when
I was doing trail magic for people, people be like, oh, so
you're a trail Angel, like people who weren't hiking.
And I'd be like, no, like, I don't know.
I don't. You don't don't call me like
that. Feels like a tainted word
nowadays, like I'm just the guy out here trying to help support
the hike. Yeah, and my, my parents have
sectioned hiked it over the last few years, so I've heard a lot
from them. But now a lot of people will
like, message someone on the Facebook page for a ride instead
of hitchhiking. Like it's just a totally
different experience, I think, than back in our day.
Yeah, I know. I try my best to like, not like,
harp on like how it used to be, but I don't know, I feel like it
really used to be. Yeah, I, I, I mean, it was more
I really like the unknown and I like the because I had a blog
too. It was really fun to just read
blogs, like you get a full picture of what happened versus
maybe now it must all be on Instagram or TikTok or social
media. But even just the method of
research for all these trials, even just being in Europe, has
changed so much. Yeah, I know I I would, I kept
it like some people who would hang out like at, you know, my
trail magic, you know, eventually start talking about
the trail and stuff. And I encourage a lot of people
to delete Far Out. I'm like, if you want a
different experience of the trail, like delete far out like,
and it's like, you know, I don't know, I think Far out's great.
They do a great job, but like, it's, you know, when you have 20
different people leaving comments for waypoints, like,
you know, every half a mile, it's like there really is like
there's no surprise or no nothing.
And it's like they're like, but then how will I know how much
water to carry? And I'm like, well, then you
look at the map and you see where the next reliable water
source is going to be. And you'd think, OK, well, it's
20 miles to get to that river. How many, how many liters of
water do I need for 20 miles? So like, that's a lot of water.
I'm like, yeah, I carried like 7 liters of water many times on
the BCT, like yeah, 7:00 I'm like, yeah.
Yeah, and, and the other thing is like, campsites are
everywhere too. I there's not the days where
you're like walking along, it's getting dark and you're like, I
sure hope I find a campsite soon.
Now you just know where you're going to camp.
It's changed. Yeah, I know.
It's, it's, I don't know. It's definitely a much, much
different experience than it once was.
Yeah. Analog PCD, hiking, That's
that's the isn't that what Gen. Z likes now?
Analog isn't everybody going analog with things like.
So yeah, you know, ditch the phone and bring your paper map.
Yeah, so the the map set where you'd be hiking with just like a
thick thing of maps or mail my head and resupplies, then
resupply gets lost and you don't have your maps.
Those are the good old days. Yeah, I remember calling my dad
from a Ridge because I like dropped my map and I like gave
him instructions on like how to navigate to the maps online
because I didn't know where the next water.
I was like, I was like, thank God I have service because
otherwise I don't know how I'd have to carry so much water
because I had lost my map. Yeah, yeah, they, they were like
worth their weight in gold. It's what everyone had.
It was you had the you'd like go to Kinko's, print out like 70
double sided maps and that's what you're going to navigate
with no idea how to use a map. It was a fun time.
Yeah. Just backpacking or through
hiking in these adventures, does it have the same meaning or
feeling now that you've been doing it for over a decade?
Like do you feel more pressure? Do you still get that same like
wonder and awe and enjoyment of stuff?
I kind of feel like I need to reach more for those kinds of
things like, you know, do something that really doesn't
have a lot of information out there about it or hasn't really
doesn't have. You know, when I did the Hey
Duke, I kind of felt that way again, like it was a lot more
like I don't know what I'm getting myself into sort of
thing. And in September, I'm going back
to Japan to like, repeat a route that I put together through the
Japanese Alps that like, it's kind of just like something I
put together and like, I literally have no beta or no way
of getting lots of the beta. So like, I don't know, I feel
like I still look for like, that the challenge of not just the
actual physical act of doing it, but just like of the whole trail
itself, like the logistics of it, the, you know, the unknowns
of it, the yeah, I don't know, I feel like I kind of have to
reach for more of that sort of thing.
Yeah, I'm, I'm with you. That's why I think it's like
it's so hard because you're 1st through hike.
Like for us, the PCT sits in your mind in such a different
way because if you did the PCT again the year after that, like
it would still have a different meaning because you'd already
learned all these things. It's almost like that learning
aspect or trying to figure things out on the fly or not
knowing anything about anything is sort of the, it's such a cool
experience. I don't know.
Did you feel the same way on the on your first through hike?
Yeah, yeah. It's like, you know, it's like
it's because you're learning something.
I feel like, you know what I mean?
Like if my hike isn't teaching me anything, it's like it could
still be nice. Like the GR20, like didn't teach
me anything about hiking. Like I never had any.
I was never like, oh, I don't know if I'm going to finish the
GR 20. I was just like, Oh yeah, like
we'll do this nice little hike on the GR20.
It'll be fine. You know, I learned a lot about
France and Corsica and like those sorts of things, but from
like a outdoor point of view, it's like, you know, there was
never any real unknowns. So yeah, I feel like if I, if
I'm not like pushing myself or learning something, then it's
kind of like, you know, it can still be enjoyable, but it
doesn't reach that same level of, you know, sort of
fulfillment. Yeah.
Do we have to change sports now to get that again?
That's what I'm saying. That's that's one of the cool
things about, you know, switching, doing long distance
biking or rafting or running. It's because like you're just
throwing yourself back into that like, oh God, now I'm like
completely out of my element again and everything is new and
you know, let's see how it goes. So yeah.
Yeah. What it What do you wanted?
What haven't you done that you want to do to get get that
feeling again? It's kind of, I don't know, one
of the things that's been like kind of scratching my brain for
a while that's a little different, I guess, but could be
incorporated somehow, is like, I really want to start paragoning.
I that wasn't when I was asking the question.
I was going to like make a joke about something like that, but
really OK. Yeah, I don't know, Like, it's
like, it just seems so cool. And you can do like, ultralight
paragliding and get just like a tiny wing and like, fly up to
like a Ridge and like, you know, hike and then fly back down.
And just, it seems like a really cool way to, like, open new
terrain to yourself. I don't know, it seems, and my
buddy actually from France who started the GR20 with us, he
just started doing it as well. And it was so funny because he's
like, you know what I want to start doing.
And I was like paragliding. He's like, yes, I was like what?
I was like, wow. I was like, let's do it.
So I don't know. It's, it's definitely, it's on
the list. It's and that's kind of how
things that I do come to be. They're kind of like just start
as an idea in my head. And then if they stick around
long enough then I sort of end up following through with them.
Wow, how? How do you even start
paragliding? Do you have to know someone?
Do you take lessons? Do you just start praying?
You got to go to a school, you really have to, you know, like
go somewhere and have somebody teach you what to do.
And there's like, you know, different certification levels
and, you know, I don't think it's the kind of thing you just
buy a buy a shoot and then start going.
But. That's tough.
Because that's my favorite style.
I like just buying the gear and figure it out, but this seems
like not the activity to do that with.
I'm kind of running out of activities to do that with I
feel like. How about long distance
swimming? It's like swim across the
English Channel. I've thought about it before, it
just sounds so boring, like I don't know.
Yeah, you wouldn't do it for the views, that's for sure.
No, no, but I don't know. I've talked to people who have
done big swims and I'm always like, that's cool.
And like, you know, that's the kind of thing that makes me want
to do something is like, if somebody tells me about it and
my reaction is like, oh, that's cool.
Like then I'm like, oh, OK, well, maybe, maybe I want to do
that too. But yeah, swimming.
I don't know. OK, yeah, I don't know.
I think it's, I think I would be doing it for the wrong reasons.
The more I think about it. I just want to say I did it
rather than the experience of just staring into the endless
depths of the of the sea. So I don't know, be a tough
sell. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, I've
been doing a lot more snow stuff recently too.
Or I mean last winter and then this winter again.
I'll be up in Canada all winter, so snow stuff's been fun.
So stuff's a little scary though because I'm scared of
avalanches, but. Yeah, as you should be.
So what? What's next?
What do you what do you have on the docket and how does your
year shake out? Do you ever spend time living in
a the same place for a while? Not probably by most people.
Like, by most people's standards, it's like I either
have very long vacations or I have like, very short permanent
living situation. Yeah, Like right now I'm in
Brazil for the next month, mostly just working and then
heading to Japan for what's probably going to be like 4
weeks of hiking across, you know, the main island of Japan.
And yeah, hopefully I have a wedding to go to right before we
fly out there. Otherwise I'd be going a little
bit earlier. But that's another unknown is
like we're kind of going to be racing against the winter.
Like if Japan gets an early winter, then we're either going
to have to bail or I don't know, figure something else out
because the Hudson, Japan aren't going to be open when we're
hiking past most of them. So that'll be interesting.
So you have to carry food. That'll be tough.
Yeah, carry food, carry food, carry fuel, carry water.
Yeah, All right. The last thing I want to hit on
is we talked about like a bunch of adventures, what you do, but
like, how is your life set up? Like I want to like, it must be
a lot of work to do what you're doing or organize the next thing
too. And I think that's often lost
upon people when it's like a someone gets to do all these
cool things. But I think before this we
talked how when you're not doing something or between, there's
like a bunch of work involved. So how do you structure this so
that you can create this life that involves cool stuff, but
it's not without work too? Yeah.
I mean, it's basically just extended periods of work and
then extended periods of play. Like I said, I'm going to be in
Brazil for the next month, but I'm not going to be.
I'm probably just going to be 90% of the time sitting in a
Airbnb, you know, writing articles about the things that
I've done for the last couple of months and about the things I'm
going to be doing for the next couple of months and hopefully
get enough stuff, you know, scheduled in the queue that, you
know, then I can not worry about writing while I'm in Japan.
And then I come back from Japan and Oh my God, everything that
I've written has already been posted and I'm back at square 1
and let me just sit around for another month.
Just like working in front of my computer.
So I don't know, I get kind of yes, kind of no, It's it it I
did actually look my partner earlier, like the last month and
I was like, I feel like we need a vacation, like a like a
vacation like where we're not like doing some long, you know,
some physical challenge every day.
And I was like, I don't like go somewhere we can just like sit
at the beach or something. And, and so I was like, oh,
maybe we'll go to Hawaii. And then like I caught myself.
The first thing I was doing was like researching like how to
circumnavigate like the Big Island of Hawaii and like, and I
was like, wait, wait, no, like that's not stop, stop doing
that. That's not that's not a vacation
like so. Yeah, you could have just done
that in Corsica. It's known for their beaches,
don't you know? I know, Yeah, I know.
Actually we did meet people who were riding something they
called the GT20, which is like a bike packing route across
Corsica. That actually I was like, oh,
actually like, I don't know, we took the train back from the
northern, you know, the northwest side back to Bastia on
the east side and looking at like all those little roads and
dirt roads and stuff. I was like, this actually might
be a pretty cool place to come and do like a bike tour.
Yeah, traveling with a bike would be rough, but I guess it
is a ferry so it's not a big deal.
Yeah, no, I've flown with the bike a couple of times.
It's definitely adds another layer of, you know, pain in the
butt, but it's, it's, it's doable.
Yeah, OK, So halfwayanywhere.com, that's the
spot. What?
What's coming out soon? Your GR20 at some point.
My GR20, yeah, right up. I'm like halfway through I think
today. I just finished the right up for
day six. Yeah, I don't know, GR 20 stuff,
Japan beta stuff, stuff. I just, I just got done.
I can improve some Peru stuff. You know, just whatever,
whatever I have like, you know, it's actually maybe I do get a
little bit of burnout. I have like 30 half finished
articles. You know, I'll get like halfway
through something and I'll just be like, oh, I can't think about
this anymore. And then just completely switch
and start writing about something else.
And then I'll be like, OK, now I need to do something about my
drafts folder because this is. Yeah, and the pressure to finish
it before the next adventure. Oh my God, I still, I still
haven't, I've made the mistake of starting like a, a weekly CDT
journal on the website. Like, you know, back in 2017
when I did the CDT and I, I never finished the write ups for
like week 17 and 18, like the last two weeks and people still
e-mail me like where are week 17 and 18.
I'm like, I'm sorry. Like I know it's my greatest
shame. Like I promise one day I will
maybe get back to writing. 10 year anniversary next year is
when you put those out finally. That's a good idea, yes. 10 year
anniversary. Put a deadline on it.
That's the only way it'll get done, yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Well, thank you Mac from It's
Always Sunny for joining It's. Yep, don't worry.
I know you don't think you look like him, but apparently you do
if that's your trial name. Do you?
I not that much honestly, but. What?
What about 14 years ago when I got my?
Yeah, I I'd have to, I'd have to read your blog to read the
intense detail you go into about your appearance to really
decide. But exactly.
Yeah, I don't know, Trail names are so funny, but you know, they
they stick with us forever. Yeah, it allows me to have for a
while. I was, you know, people would
e-mail me and they're like, oh, I was talking to Mac and I was
like, oh, no, that's me. Like we're the same person.
Just act like you have a incredible amount of staff on on
board to Mac's just learning riders.
That's just more work, actually. Yeah.
Well, thanks for joining. I appreciate you putting up with
the questions. Little Corsica, little survey
stuff, little other stuff, bike packing and I hope your your
time working in Brazil goes well.
Yeah, no, thanks for having me. This is my whole life so I love
talking about it. That's crazy but also fun, but
also could be burnout. Yeah.
Thank you guys for listening to the show.
The show's also brought to you by Garage Grown Gear.
Garage Grown gear.com. What do I love over there right
now? Well, I'm getting Allison a
backpack for her birthday, a new one because she's been using an
old one of mine and she's proven that she likes to backpack.
So I think it's really big when before you jump in.
Like if you're new to trail running, I wouldn't say go buy
all the new stuff, new shoes, expensive everything.
I'd say like run in what you have and make sure you love it
and then just scale as you decide how much of your life you
want it to be. I think that's how things should
be. So Allison, it's been proven and
we've had a lot of great backpacking trips.
We're going to go backpacking next week too that.
She. Is into it so now it's time
let's get some more specific better gear that's more suited
to her and her size. Not my 6 foot 2 frame that you
know. World beater over here for FK
TS. Just kidding, but sometimes so
getting a pack over there. They also have footwear socks.
I really like the exo skin socks and yeah, go over check out
garagegrowngear.com. I am going to be in the Sierra
next week and it's going to be fantastic.
It's truly one of my favorite areas, mostly become because it
comes with those emotional memories of my early days of
backpacking, learning to backpack on the Pacific Crest
Trail, figuring it out when I didn't have a home and I didn't
have a car. I spent months training in the
Sierra. I would just use all my money to
go to what's it called, Grocery Outlet, bargain Market.
That's where I'd resupply a lot because it was the cheapest.
And that's what I did for my FK TS in 2019.
That's sort of how I trained for everything and it just has a
special place in my heart. So as we go through these times
where we see a lot of negativity and stuff, just think of the the
special times or the special memories or special activities
that you've had throughout your life, even if it's childhood,
maybe revisit those. Get a little bit of that like
self inspiration that that pull back into, OK, I have had these
really cool times. I should revisit them or maybe
that race that was really cool. It's OK to live in the past a
little bit, especially if it's going to guide how you're going
to make these decisions into the future and what you want to be
when you grow up. But also you never have to grow
up. I've always thought the Peter
Pan mantra was pretty cool. We can have a little bit of kid
in us all the time as long as we take care of our
responsibilities to society. But tone at the top, it doesn't
look like our president is doing that.
All right with that. Not going to get political on
you yet. Stay elite, my friends.