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This is Rumble with Michael 
Moore and I'm Michael Moore. 

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Welcome everyone. 
First of all, I want to thank 

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all of you who joined me last 
Friday night for the free 

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worldwide, screening of 
Fahrenheit, 9/11 and the Q&A 

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afterwards and the little short 
subject of what happened after 

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the film came out, and we had an
amazing turnout received 

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wonderful feedback for many of 
you. 

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So, Thank you very much for 
that. 

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It was the eve of the 20th 
anniversary of 9/11 and felt 

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like a powerful moment and I 
loved watching the movie with 

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you and sharing it with you. 
And and this is something I'm 

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going to do for my sub stack 
members. 

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If you are a member of myself 
stack, I'm going to every month 

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or to do what we call Mike's 
movie night and I will curate 

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this. 
I will pick films That are just 

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personal favorites of mine. 
Some of them are really unknown.

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Some of them didn't get the 
distribution they deserved, and 

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people haven't seen them. 
I'd like to share them with you.

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Some of them are huge Classics 
that I would love to get the 

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director or some of the stars of
the film together after the 

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screening that particular night 
and have them take questions 

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from you. 
So that's going to be Mike's 

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movie night, a new feature on my
sub stack. 

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And you know, You are already a 
free subscriber. 

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Of course, you get every one of 
these podcasts and you get every

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one of my essays and 
newsletters. 

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And any writings, I do, it's all
free to everybody. 

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No pay wall. 
But for those of you who choose 

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to become a paid member and 
support the work, we're doing 

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our next film. 
Our next series, the things that

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we are up to here. 
Now, during this pandemic, we 

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want to have what we have a 
couple little gifts for you to. 

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Thank you for becoming a paid 
member. 

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And one of those is Is watching 
a movie with me every month or 

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so and also every month I'm 
going to do personal Q&A with 

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those of you who are paid 
members and basically we're do 

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the certain sort of a zoom sort 
of way. 

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This is not going to be where I 
you know take questions in 

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advance and read from cards or 
whatever this is you and I 

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personally being on the screen 
with each other to have a 

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conversation for you to ask me 
any question you want to ask me 

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to make a comment, have a 
discussion whatever it is. 

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Is I'm really looking forward to
doing this with all of you. 

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So sign up and be a paid member 
on my podcast platform page, or 

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you can do it when you get your 
next sub. 

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Stack mailing email from me, 5 
bucks a month and you get these 

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free gifts for being a paid 
member and thank all of you for 

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being part of this in this first
month, it's been very special 

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and I'm very grateful. 
Today's podcast episode will be 

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my conversations. 
Twenty years after 9/11 and 17 

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years. 
After we released Fahrenheit, 

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9/11 in the theaters, you're 
going to hear on this podcast 

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today, to conversations that I 
had surrounding Friday's 

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worldwide event to conversations
one with Lila Lipscomb. 

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From Flint, Michigan. 
The mother whose son died. 

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While serving in Iraq and my 
conversation with Abdul 

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Henderson. 
The former Marine Corporal who 

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came with me bravely to Capitol 
Hill to stop members of Congress

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as we try to recruit them or 
their sons, or their daughters 

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to go and fight the wars that 
they were enthusiastically 

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voting for. 
But before we are my 

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conversations with Lila and 
Abdul. 

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I want to thank our underwriter 
for this episode of Rumble and 

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that underwriter is true. 
Bill, thank you very much for 

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supporting this podcast and 
trying to save everybody. 

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Some money true bill is the new 
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You may have heard of it that 
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You don't need want or you've 
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We have all done this, right? 
We have Two things. 

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And if you don't check carefully
to Bucks, 10 bucks, whatever it 

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And it's like, whoa, I forgot. 

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cancel it and then I've been 
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five months. 
Yes, everybody knows this 

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feeling. 
So the true bill app allows you 

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It's just All there in one 

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the ones you don't want, and it 
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My friends. 
True bill has over 2 million 

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That I should have long been 

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dead. 
So for instance, there's one 

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Bill name is Matthew Beyond, 

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give his last name, but he wrote
in to say that quote In a matter

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of seconds I saved six hundred 
and sixty dollars for the year 

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A.com slash Rumble. 
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bill.com. 
And Slash. 

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All right, so as I was saying, 
last Friday I spoke with Lila 

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Lipscomb just before our 
Fahrenheit 9/11 screening, she's

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the mother from Flint Michigan 
and lost her son. 

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Army Sergeant, Michael Patterson
on April 2nd 2003 in Iraq 

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Michael who was obviously also 
from Flint was 26 years old. 

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He was killed in a Black Hawk 
helicopter. 

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Crash in central Iraq. 
Lila and her family are now 

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living in Columbus, Ohio. 
Let's just play a minute from 

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Fahrenheit 9/11, where we met 
Lila Lipscomb. 

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The Army called me. 
And I remember getting on the 

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phone and him saying asking me, 
was I Lila Lipscomb and I said 

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yes, and he said, mother of 
Sergeant, Michael Patterson. 

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And I remember dropping the 
telephone and all I can honestly

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say that I remember is ma'am, 
the United States Army, the 

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Secretary of Defense regretfully
informs you It's all I know. 

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The grief wrapped me so hard. 
That I literally fell in the 

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floor and I was alone, I didn't 
have anybody to pick me up. 

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So, I literally called over to 
my desk and was hanging on and I

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remember screaming, why does it 
have to be mindful? 

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Why did you have to take my son?
Why is it my son? 

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You had to take him to do 
anything. 

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He wasn't a bad guy. 
She was a good that, why did you

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have to take my son? 
While in her family now live in 

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Columbus, Ohio. 
And now, my friends, here it is.

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My one-on-one conversation with 
Lila Lipscomb. 

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Hey Lyla, are you doing? 
Do you know what Michael first? 

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Can I just I don't know if I 
ever ever got a chance to 

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properly, just warm plea, from 
my heart. 

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Tell you, thank you so much for 
giving me a platform for my 

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grief. 
I know it was because of what 

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you gifted me with that gave me 
the strength to continue on and 

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I thank you for that. 
Not everybody had the ability or

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the app, the gift to be able to 
have a platform to share that 

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grief and to receive so much. 
Much love when I needed it. 

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So I want to thank you for that.
Well that's very kind of you to 

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say that there's no way I 
probably could never do enough 

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to remove the pain and obviously
none of us have the power to 

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bring Michael your son back. 
But I was so moved by you. 

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When I first met you we were 
making the film to stand there 

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with you in front of the White 
House. 

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Yeah. 
To stand at the gates or of 

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power in to speak the truth. 
Yep. 

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No you're a religious person. 
And of course, we talked about 

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how I, when I was a teenager. 
I went to the Seminary and but 

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you literally were that day. 
I just was thinking we have 

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John, the Baptist here. 
I doubt that she's just call him

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out and he's on there and it's 
ear. 

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Yep, here come on King Herod. 
Come on down. 

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But you know what I remember so 
much about that day at the White

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House. 
I was I was so angry that there 

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was like a trench built. 
Yes, offense in the trench 

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building. 
All of that. 

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Yes he's so afraid he has to 
just literally lock himself in 

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back there, right? 
I was appalled, I was appalled. 

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It's my white house. 
Just like it's his white house 

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and I couldn't get to it. 
It shocked me there and that was

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really the beginning of of how 
they were trying to under the 

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name of Homeland Security. 
Exactly basically make sure That

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the people can be kept away, and
then we can be heard exemption 

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and there's nothing to worry 
about with us. 

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We're not like the January 6. 
People were, we're going to come

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on now. 
Tell it we're not violent 

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people. 
First of all, were there to stop

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the violence? 
Exactly. 

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What else you remember of that 
time when we were sort of back 

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and forth and everywhere we were
in Flint, we were in Washington.

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D.c.? 
What comes to me is Dover Air 

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Force Base when we went to Dover
that was pretty intense. 

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That was pretty intense. 
Because I was not allowed to go 

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receive my son's casket home and
to be able to go to Dover. 

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It was as though I was able to 
go even though he wasn't there 

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and then to see, when I walk to 
go up to the base. 

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And to see, I didn't realize 
that. 

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So many people were following me
as I walked up to the base, and 

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they told me that I had to leave
and that that hurt me to my 

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heart knowing that my son gave 
his blood for this country and I

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was Not allowed to step foot on 
a military base. 

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All of that time was just so 
emotional for me, obviously, for

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you, for all, I was having to do
was try to, you know, go around 

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the country and try to talk to 
people and try to figure this 

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out, and try to present 
something to the public, but 

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your loss. 
I mean, your, your son, Michael 

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died on April 2nd, which is my 
mother's birthday, right? 

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No, and he was, I think one of 
the first from our area, he was 

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to die in the war because the 
war had started on March 17th. 

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Yep. 19th something like that, 
March 9th. 

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So, it was very early on. 
Yeah. 

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And I think most Americans 
really didn't know why we were 

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there or what was happening or 
what's going on. 

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And well, a lot of Americans 
were trying were actually 

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feeding into the lie that we 
were going after Bin Laden. 

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Yeah. 
Right in Iraq. 

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Exactly. 
Right. 

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Right. 
And then here we are 20 years 

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later, finally, having to come 
out of Afghanistan where we 

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should have. 
If we truly went for bin Laden, 

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we should have been there in the
first place. 

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Yeah. 
And then once Bin Laden was 

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gone. 
Why were we still there? 

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Thank you, Michael, who's that? 
I don't, they've never really 

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explained that and the way bush 
has sort of, now, in the latter 

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00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:55,800
years come off, as this kind of 
goofy, Grandpa type. 

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He's a painter now and he's 
always hugging, Michelle Obama 

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and handing her sticks of gum. 
I mean, I just and once Trump 

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was elected, everybody was like,
oh well, this makes bush look 

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good and I'm thinking, no, 
really? 

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I'm not I mean I'm not prone to 
say anything good about Trump 

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but I'm trying to remember the 
countries he invaded right. 

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You know I mean this guy invaded
two countries. 

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Yep. 
There's a lot of blood on his 

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hands. 
Yep. 

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And money in his pocket, a lot 
of money and his and Cheney's 

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and all exactly the ones that 
sit on the boards. 

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Yeah. 
So I've really never gotten it 

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over it. 
And I have this sense still that

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justice has not prevailed. 
When it comes to washing his 

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crowd, no hunt, I hope that will
happen in our lifetime, me too. 

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00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,900
How do they sleep, how do they 
sleep at night? 

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00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:52,100
You know what? 
I don't know how they sleep 

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00:13:52,100 --> 00:13:56,700
other than just being pure 
ignorant and choosing not to 

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take accountability for their 
actions because I think in their

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00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,600
mind they were doing what they 
They thought they needed to do 

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00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,100
in order to pacify the ones that
put them in office. 

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00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,500
And that that sickens me, that 
just sickens me with our 

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political system. 
How have you dealt with that 

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00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:14,900
yourself now? 
Because it's been so Michael 

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died in 03. 
So that's what is that 18? 

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00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:22,800
18 years 18 plus years. 
Now a lot of counseling. 

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00:14:23,100 --> 00:14:26,500
I worked with the Columbia 
University for the study of 

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00:14:26,500 --> 00:14:29,500
grief for families of Fallen 
Soldiers. 

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00:14:32,300 --> 00:14:36,400
No, just built a little cocoon 
that I stay within. 

226
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,600
And unfortunately, I mean I'm 
very blessed to be where I'm at 

227
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:45,000
right now, but I think I stay 
very close to the defense center

228
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,900
in Columbus. 
Ohio and I have to be very 

229
00:14:48,900 --> 00:14:53,500
careful because when the 
military helicopters start 

230
00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:59,000
flying overhead, I tend to get 
very anxious and start getting 

231
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:03,400
the PTSD flashbacks. 
So, That part has been a real 

232
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,300
struggle for me. 
You can tell I'm still kind of 

233
00:15:05,300 --> 00:15:08,200
dealing with that. 
Of course while Michael died in 

234
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,800
a helicopter, exactly. 
Absolutely. 

235
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,500
And then to find out that his 
head was decapitated is it's, 

236
00:15:15,600 --> 00:15:19,500
you know, I choose not to try to
think about those when I think 

237
00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:22,400
of my son I choose to think of 
the Redbird. 

238
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,200
The Cardinal would comes and 
visits me almost daily. 

239
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,600
And they say, when a red bird, 
visit you with someone from 

240
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,800
Heaven, checking on you. 
So those kind of things are what

241
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,200
I choose to stick with. 
Yeah, yeah. 

242
00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:39,000
But but still I hear you and 
it's you still hear the pain of 

243
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,000
course. 
I mean, I how the, you know, my 

244
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:46,600
grandmother lost, my uncle in 
World War Two in the 

245
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,600
Philippines. 
And now I wasn't born then, but 

246
00:15:50,700 --> 00:15:54,600
growing up was clear. 
He was there were seven kids in 

247
00:15:54,608 --> 00:15:58,700
that family and who's probably 
the favorite brother of my 

248
00:15:58,700 --> 00:16:01,900
dad's. 
Although I only saw him with his

249
00:16:01,900 --> 00:16:05,000
two To living brothers who are 
also in the war and they were 

250
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,200
hilarious and great and he loved
them deeply. 

251
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,600
But the one who died, I think it
was just like, they were just a 

252
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,400
year apart or so, and my 
grandmother never got over it. 

253
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:20,500
She was so affected by his death
that when the war was over. 

254
00:16:20,500 --> 00:16:22,900
And they finally, you know, the 
bodies came back and whatever 

255
00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:27,300
they buried him in the Catholic 
Cemetery in Flint, she wanted to

256
00:16:27,300 --> 00:16:31,500
visit the grave every day and 
did, and then she told her 

257
00:16:31,500 --> 00:16:35,100
husband That she wanted to find 
a house that was in walking 

258
00:16:35,100 --> 00:16:39,400
distance of the cemetery and did
and found a house to rent. 

259
00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:42,600
Just across essentially right 
across the street from the 

260
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,800
cemetery and went there, every 
day. 

261
00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,700
All my God, the grief and the 
pain of it. 

262
00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:51,100
Yeah. 
The well that's that's part of 

263
00:16:51,100 --> 00:16:55,600
the reason that I had to leave 
Flint because I too would go to 

264
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,900
the cemetery and many days, I 
would find myself standing. 

265
00:16:59,900 --> 00:17:02,100
It is great and just screaming 
at the top of my lungs. 

266
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:04,000
Lungs. 
Yeah, because I still don't 

267
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:10,099
understand it. 18 years in and I
still don't understand a man's 

268
00:17:10,099 --> 00:17:15,200
greed that he would send 
children to make him more money.

269
00:17:16,099 --> 00:17:19,099
I still don't understand it. 
Well, you understand that it was

270
00:17:19,099 --> 00:17:22,300
a man's greed, right? 
Wanted to make money and would, 

271
00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:26,599
and would not send his own 
daughters off to whatever, 

272
00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,600
exactly, but would send your son
and all the others have signed 

273
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,400
up in all the others. 
And they said, why did they sign

274
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,600
up? 
They signed up because they were

275
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,100
willing to defend you. 
And I exactly so that we 

276
00:17:39,100 --> 00:17:41,400
wouldn't have to give our lives.
They're willing to give their 

277
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:43,700
lives, right? 
I can promise you. 

278
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:48,300
When my son signed up with the 
military, he never gave up 

279
00:17:48,300 --> 00:17:52,100
thought about being sent some 
place to make money for 

280
00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:54,200
somebody, right? 
A place that had nothing to do 

281
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,300
with the defense a lot to do 
with it. 

282
00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:58,400
My son was all for getting Bin 
Laden. 

283
00:17:58,500 --> 00:18:01,100
Yeah, but he wasn't for invading
Iraq. 

284
00:18:01,100 --> 00:18:04,100
Yeah, what did that have to do? 
With Bin Laden, exactly, right? 

285
00:18:04,100 --> 00:18:06,700
It's like, it's like pop said 
that day in our house. 

286
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,800
And what is it all for 18 years 
later? 

287
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,400
We're still asking and what was 
it for your husband? 

288
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:15,800
Yeah, yeah. 
Well, can I take a stab at 

289
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,900
answering that question? 
Okay, he helped me not only make

290
00:18:18,900 --> 00:18:21,700
it worse. 
I've come to believe that 

291
00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:26,800
Michael and the others who gave 
their lives, but it's personal. 

292
00:18:26,900 --> 00:18:31,300
When I think of your son that he
did not die in vain, right? 

293
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,300
He didn't die for the Since that
bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld 

294
00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,400
were lying to us about and he 
shouldn't have had to die. 

295
00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:41,100
But remember my grandmother 
telling me that we all have this

296
00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:44,900
cross that we have to carry and 
it comes in different forms. 

297
00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:48,400
You lose people in your family, 
my other grandmother lost, two 

298
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:55,100
babies, you know, things life is
hard, life is hard, and it feels

299
00:18:55,100 --> 00:18:58,500
sometimes like a one curveball 
after another coming right at 

300
00:18:58,500 --> 00:19:01,500
our heads, right? 
But the fact that Michael 

301
00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:06,700
Patterson Is with me to this day
after I met him through you some

302
00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:12,200
18, some years ago, the fact 
that that he lives on in that 

303
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,900
way and lives on in you through 
you that we got to tell his 

304
00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:20,400
story that his story, I think 
affected a lot of people, I'm 

305
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,300
sure people just watch the film 
for the first time tonight. 

306
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,200
Has affected them. 
And that means he lives he lives

307
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,900
on, he carries this message 
through his death. 

308
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,800
I just got it Michael. 
Just got it, part of what, there

309
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,400
might be many reasons, but I 
believe. 

310
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:41,000
Now after hearing your words, 
part of the reason that my son 

311
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,200
had to give his life and he was 
willing to do. 

312
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,500
That was so that this truth 
could be told, right? 

313
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,700
I believe that, I believe that 
very strongly and I believe. 

314
00:19:49,700 --> 00:19:51,400
Yeah. 
And it to the people who watch 

315
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,200
in the school. 
Also lost loved ones. 

316
00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:56,300
Yeah. 
I mean, I've gotten letters from

317
00:19:56,300 --> 00:20:00,200
parents this last week after 
Afghanistan, after the end. 

318
00:20:00,700 --> 00:20:02,100
What did he die for? 
What did he die? 

319
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,900
Die for what do you got? 
And I've tried to write back and

320
00:20:05,300 --> 00:20:09,400
and and tell them that that 
answer will be delivered by us. 

321
00:20:10,100 --> 00:20:13,600
If in his death it encouraged 
five people. 

322
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:18,400
Watching this, 10 people 
thousand people to get off off 

323
00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:23,900
the sofa, get active speak, your
mind, vote protest participate 

324
00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:28,300
in this democracy, exactly, 
every whatever we will complete 

325
00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:31,900
his or her life. 
If we all do that and if we 

326
00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:37,500
don't, if we remain silent, if 
we remain a pathetic, if we so 

327
00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:41,500
easily can say, and rightfully, 
just got so much going on, 

328
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,900
please, Mike, I can't take on 
anything else. 

329
00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:49,200
I please, I understand Lila 
understands. 

330
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:54,800
Yes, but we cannot remain still 
and we cannot remain silent. 

331
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,700
No, and we dishonor the dead if 
we do, that's how strongly I 

332
00:20:58,700 --> 00:21:02,000
personally found it. 
But Michael, I want everybody to

333
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:06,600
understand that you start where 
you are, right? 

334
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,700
Right. 
Right with the anxiety, the PTSD

335
00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:13,000
symptoms with everything that 
I've dealt with over the last 18

336
00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,000
years. 
I have the last election. 

337
00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:20,500
I got more young people to 
register to vote that I have in 

338
00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:25,500
my entire life and it was 
because they had the audacity to

339
00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:27,200
start. 
Bitching to me about the way the

340
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,100
world was in America and my 
first question. 

341
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,500
Austin is always well, did you 
vote or do? 

342
00:21:32,500 --> 00:21:35,400
I'm not registered voter. 
Don't say that to me. 

343
00:21:36,100 --> 00:21:40,100
Ask my fun. 
I have gotten more one girl, her

344
00:21:40,100 --> 00:21:43,400
mother didn't vote. 
Her grandparents didn't vote and

345
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,500
her grit and she was an 
African-American young woman. 

346
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,000
Mmm-hmm I can promise you this 
last election. 

347
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,300
She voted for the first time and
she's now getting her family to 

348
00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:58,800
vote you start where you are. 
Stop the excuses, just stop it. 

349
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,000
I don't I don't have any I don't
deal with excuses well and I 

350
00:22:02,008 --> 00:22:07,300
don't deal with ignorance. 
Well, well that is well, thank 

351
00:22:07,300 --> 00:22:09,600
you for doing that with these 
young people and getting them to

352
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,000
register to vote. 
But I, when this film came on, I

353
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,700
got so many emails and things 
from people that saw the film 

354
00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:20,400
that had that sentence in there,
I decided to vote. 

355
00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:24,600
I haven't voted yet. 
I'm going to vote now and the 

356
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,800
powerful way that you convey. 
This message, you know, I 

357
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:33,900
remember somebody who worked on 
the film saying after she, you 

358
00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:38,500
know, we saw the final film 
said, this is really a, this is 

359
00:22:38,500 --> 00:22:42,900
a film about about two mothers. 
Ultimately, if you want to boil 

360
00:22:42,900 --> 00:22:46,200
it right down to the core of 
this film, the soul of this film

361
00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:52,100
is brought To Us by the mother 
from Flint Lila Lipscomb and the

362
00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:55,000
Iraqi mother who has just lost 
her child. 

363
00:22:55,100 --> 00:22:59,200
After we bombed the civilian 
Population there in Iraq and the

364
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,000
she's carrying the dead child. 
And you know, people were no, 

365
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,000
the scene in the movie and she's
crying to God. 

366
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,600
Why have you let these Americans
do this? 

367
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:13,700
Why are you there? 
You know, can you punish them 

368
00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:16,500
for this? 
Can you contact me to bring back

369
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:19,400
my child? 
But it's why I'll tie it in. 

370
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,300
And so I thought this was really
great when she said this because

371
00:23:22,300 --> 00:23:26,700
it was like that the sort of 
guttural scream from the soul 

372
00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:29,500
from Woman in Iraq and from you 
and Flint. 

373
00:23:29,500 --> 00:23:33,900
Michigan is the is the heart and
soul and the glue of this film, 

374
00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:37,600
and it really, I think it just 
watching it tonight again, just 

375
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,700
feel like the same emotional 
reaction to this. 

376
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:46,800
Well, my 18 year old grandson, 
who was actually born on my 

377
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,200
son's birthday. 
Amari on. 

378
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,200
He was a baby that Howard and 
Michelle had at the time of the 

379
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,900
filming. 
He's getting ready to watch it 

380
00:23:55,900 --> 00:23:58,300
for the first time. 
Wow. 

381
00:23:58,300 --> 00:24:01,300
Wow, he's been, he's been 
shielded from it. 

382
00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:05,800
Only because we needed to make 
sure that he was mature enough 

383
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,300
to be able to receive what was 
really going in it. 

384
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:13,100
Because knowing what has 
happened to his uncle that he's 

385
00:24:13,100 --> 00:24:15,800
born. 
And Michael knew that a Mariana 

386
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,000
was born on his birthday, prior 
to him dying. 

387
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,100
And he was so proud that his 
first nephew was born on his 

388
00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:23,900
birthday. 
So this is going. 

389
00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:26,900
I truly want him to be with me 
when he watches. 

390
00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:31,100
And I think that was the thing 
that we needed to wait for. 

391
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,600
Wow. 
Well, I'm so happy to hear that 

392
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,100
and let me know what his 
response is. 

393
00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:41,400
I will, is that an in-house 
Michael's daughter. 

394
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:44,900
How old would she be? 
Now, she's 24. 

395
00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:46,700
I believe. 
Now, she just left. 

396
00:24:46,700 --> 00:24:51,400
She, she comes and spends the 
summer with us and her mother 

397
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,200
through all of it, actually has 
done such a beautiful job, 

398
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:59,500
raising her, I have to go. 
I have to give her mother her 

399
00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:02,300
props. 
She has done absolutely fabulous

400
00:25:02,300 --> 00:25:05,300
with Michael's daughter. 
She's loving. 

401
00:25:05,300 --> 00:25:09,900
She's kind, she's still, you 
know, she's special needs but 

402
00:25:09,900 --> 00:25:14,600
she's just an absolute joy to be
with you as your husband doing 

403
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,900
pops. 
How xia pops is pops is doing 

404
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,500
fairly good. 
He's recovering from prostate 

405
00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:25,900
cancer. 
Hmm, he is recovering from knee 

406
00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:31,300
surgery due to Getting hit by a 
hit-and-run driver ouchies. 

407
00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:35,400
So, you know, like just kind of 
tries to kick you down and you 

408
00:25:35,408 --> 00:25:39,500
just get up and go. 
But the one thing that I learned

409
00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:44,800
is the power that grief has over
your physical body, right? 

410
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:51,300
And he's 77 now and me just 
turning 68, we both have, you 

411
00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:55,500
know, surgeries and might 
happens, right, right. 

412
00:25:56,100 --> 00:25:58,700
Wow, well, Tell him, I said, hi 
for sure. 

413
00:25:58,700 --> 00:26:02,100
I will and everybody else there 
and you're in Ohio. 

414
00:26:02,100 --> 00:26:05,500
Now, you know, the mortal enemy 
of Michigan, as you know, 

415
00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:10,900
popular on game day. 
No and your you have to live 

416
00:26:10,900 --> 00:26:13,700
your near Columbus, right? 
So I am in Columbus. 

417
00:26:13,700 --> 00:26:16,600
You are in Columbus. 
OH yes, yes, yeah. 

418
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,700
And we really do love waving our
Michigan Flags. 

419
00:26:19,900 --> 00:26:22,900
Oh my God, man. 
You're that's what you're a 

420
00:26:22,908 --> 00:26:25,600
brave person doing that in 
Columbus Ohio. 

421
00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:28,700
I'll tell you, well, just like I
have a right to go for Ohio, I 

422
00:26:28,708 --> 00:26:32,300
have a right to go for Michigan.
Yeah, but you're in you're in 

423
00:26:32,300 --> 00:26:37,300
the heart of the of the and when
a by side away, Michael. 

424
00:26:37,300 --> 00:26:41,400
I know I'm just going to say, 
why am I even saying that it's a

425
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,400
challenge to me? 
I think that's probably why we 

426
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,800
do it. 
You ever get backed up the 

427
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:46,100
Flint. 
Yes, we do. 

428
00:26:46,100 --> 00:26:50,500
We do and yeah, I wanted I tried
this year but we didn't get a 

429
00:26:50,508 --> 00:26:54,300
chance to make it because I try 
to go up and visit the Michigan 

430
00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:56,800
own military museum in 
Frankenmuth. 

431
00:26:57,100 --> 00:26:59,600
As you know, that's what 
Michaels display is, but we 

432
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,400
didn't get up there this year. 
So great, right? 

433
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,700
Well, anybody in Michigan, if 
you're in Michigan or you visit,

434
00:27:04,700 --> 00:27:07,600
Michigan Frankenmuth Mi 
everybody Michigan. 

435
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,800
Ellsworth Frankenmuth is because
it's where you go to get a 

436
00:27:09,808 --> 00:27:11,200
chicken dinner. 
Yep. 

437
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,300
But the other side, this 
Michigan Military Museum where 

438
00:27:14,308 --> 00:27:18,400
they honor those from Michigan 
and served and given our lives 

439
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,700
and all that. 
So I have not seen it yet, but I

440
00:27:21,700 --> 00:27:25,000
definitely will be there because
somebody's always dragging me to

441
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,300
go there to get a chicken 
dinner. 

442
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:30,200
I will be in Frankenmuth in 
check right now Labor Day they 

443
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,500
closed Labor Day for the rest of
the season until Memorial 

444
00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:36,000
weekend, right? 
So for those who don't 

445
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,900
understand what that meant, it 
starts, it starts snowing just 

446
00:27:41,900 --> 00:27:46,100
after Labor Day in Michigan. 
And usually right around 

447
00:27:46,100 --> 00:27:47,600
Memorial Day is when the snow 
ends. 

448
00:27:48,100 --> 00:27:52,900
So, yep. 
Because we like, three months of

449
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:55,100
sunny weather. 
Yeah. 

450
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,900
But our friends and our family 
And Flint man. 

451
00:27:57,900 --> 00:28:01,000
What they've had to suffer 
through these years. 

452
00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:05,500
Yes, really, really something. 
How are you, how are you feeling

453
00:28:05,500 --> 00:28:07,800
about President Biden? 
What's your, what's your take 

454
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,700
on? 
Always so far? 

455
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,200
I am so pleased. 
I am so pleased, you know. 

456
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,700
So please, I am so thankful that
he just took everybody out of 

457
00:28:17,700 --> 00:28:20,400
Afghanistan. 
Wow, I am so thankful that he 

458
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,100
just ripped the bent. 
There was no good way to do it, 

459
00:28:23,100 --> 00:28:26,300
right? 
And he had to do it and I stand 

460
00:28:26,300 --> 00:28:27,700
with them, 100%. 
Then on that. 

461
00:28:27,700 --> 00:28:30,700
Yeah, and I'm so thankful that 
he's stepping up and doing 

462
00:28:30,700 --> 00:28:32,600
everything he's doing for this 
covid stuff. 

463
00:28:32,700 --> 00:28:37,600
I know, so thankful and I love 
love, love, love that. 

464
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:41,700
He's so into the military to 
take care of them and to make 

465
00:28:41,700 --> 00:28:43,300
sure everything goes, good with 
them. 

466
00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:45,500
Right? 
And, you know, he means it, it's

467
00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:48,900
something fake politician thing,
you know, right. 

468
00:28:49,100 --> 00:28:54,400
It's like, you know, the impact 
that his son and his son's death

469
00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:55,700
head on him. 
Yep. 

470
00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:59,100
In the way he went to Dover. 
Over there last week and stood 

471
00:28:59,100 --> 00:29:01,200
there. 
Yeah, and Bush. 

472
00:29:01,300 --> 00:29:05,200
Not only didn't go there. 
He would allow No cameras. 

473
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,400
He would allow no family. 
Yep. 

474
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,600
He wanted to try to sweep it 
under the rug. 

475
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,900
A lot of people didn't realize 
that because my son was killed 

476
00:29:13,900 --> 00:29:17,100
so early. 
On those of us that lost our 

477
00:29:17,100 --> 00:29:20,900
children early on really paved 
the way for the other families 

478
00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:24,300
to be able to go to Dover and 
receive their children coming 

479
00:29:24,300 --> 00:29:26,300
home. 
Yeah, he can. 

480
00:29:26,300 --> 00:29:31,100
I tell you, it's just When we 
showed Fahrenheit 9/11 in the 

481
00:29:31,100 --> 00:29:35,400
can film festival, we'd already 
come back home to the United 

482
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:38,600
States you know, halfway through
the Festival which on the film a

483
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,500
couple times and that was that 
and I got a call the day before 

484
00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:45,200
the award ceremony to say. 
You need to fly back to France. 

485
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,700
I said, kidding me why? 
Well the jury is indicating that

486
00:29:49,700 --> 00:29:52,700
they might give you some kind of
an award and so I said, well 

487
00:29:52,700 --> 00:29:56,000
show it, should we go? 
Yeah, okay so we got back on a 

488
00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,100
plane. 
We went back there and where 

489
00:30:00,100 --> 00:30:04,300
they're at the awards ceremony 
and we are completely shocked by

490
00:30:04,700 --> 00:30:10,500
Quentin Tarantino announcing and
Charlie's Throne holding up the 

491
00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:14,200
award that the top prize would 
was going to go to Fahrenheit 

492
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,600
9/11 and we were, like, I go up 
there. 

493
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,700
I take the award from him and 
her and afterwards. 

494
00:30:22,900 --> 00:30:27,700
After the ceremony was over, he 
comes up to me and He said, I 

495
00:30:27,700 --> 00:30:32,000
want you to know, on a personal 
level this film, really, really 

496
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:36,200
affected me deeply and he 
mentioned you a couple of other 

497
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:42,200
people in the film. 
He was so crushed and angry and 

498
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,200
everything. 
And he said to me, and I know 

499
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:50,800
it's okay to reveal this 
publicly because I get asked him

500
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:56,400
a couple years ago if I could He
said to me, I've never voted in 

501
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,600
my life. 
In fact, I've never registered 

502
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:06,400
to vote, this is at that time. 
He's late 30s, early 40s and he 

503
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,500
said, but this film, and the 
people in this film, first 

504
00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:13,800
thing, I'm doing when I get back
to LA, I'm registering to vote 

505
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,500
and I'm going to vote. 
And and then when the election 

506
00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:21,600
time came, he sent me a thing 
that he was very happy and proud

507
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,000
to that. 
That what you just said it? 

508
00:31:24,100 --> 00:31:26,400
Terms of how you got these young
people to vote. 

509
00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:30,700
It's made me think a lot about 
the power of art whether it's 

510
00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:37,300
film or anything, where those 
who can do this communicate to 

511
00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:39,100
their fellow citizens. 
Yes. 

512
00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:41,800
Whether it's a book, whether 
it's a play, whether it's a, 

513
00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:44,900
maybe it's a painting, maybe 
it's a whole bunch of great 

514
00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:48,400
photographs, maybe it's a 
podcast, maybe it's a podcast. 

515
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:51,800
Yes, yes. 
I know I'm I'm I'm trying to put

516
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,300
them all in ice capades. 
I haven't done that yet. 

517
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,200
I've not skated in ice capades 
or Disney on Ice. 

518
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:03,300
So I'll put that on the bucket 
list, but no, y, Le what I'm 

519
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,500
saying, here is that, we don't 
know, sometimes the impact and 

520
00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:10,900
the effect that we have and what
we do. 

521
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,200
And sometimes, it's even in the 
smallest thing. 

522
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,900
Smallest way, you don't have to 
be Quentin Tarantino or Michael 

523
00:32:15,900 --> 00:32:19,400
Moore, whatever if you just did 
this in your neighborhood, if 

524
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,400
you just did this in your 
apartment building, right? 

525
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,700
Just a point yourself, the block
captain. 

526
00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:27,300
Warren, just one Street start 
where you are. 

527
00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:30,400
Yes just start where you're at. 
You don't have to think you got 

528
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,600
to change the world if you 
change the world on your street 

529
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,900
and and if a thousand or a 
hundred thousand do that. 

530
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:38,700
Boom. 
Right. 

531
00:32:38,700 --> 00:32:39,800
We're going to live in a better 
country. 

532
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,000
A better world as one is going 
to touch one that one is going 

533
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,600
to touch too. 
Yeah. 

534
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:49,400
It's the Domino. 
Like before we close I just I 

535
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,400
want to just kind of turn it 
over to you to speak to these 

536
00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:57,200
thousands and I don't know, I 
haven't checked the counter yet 

537
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,400
but you know this will be seen 
by hundreds of thousands of 

538
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,400
people. 
Let me just put it like that if 

539
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,300
it hasn't been already it will 
the film itself back in the day 

540
00:33:07,300 --> 00:33:09,100
when I was released was seen by 
millions. 

541
00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:14,500
But you have the for now the 
camera and the microphone to say

542
00:33:14,500 --> 00:33:18,000
whatever you'd like to say to 
all of those who are watching 

543
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,300
right now, who have seen you in 
heard your voice. 

544
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,300
And I know who were very moved 
by what they saw on the Film. 

545
00:33:24,300 --> 00:33:26,900
But here we now are now in 2021.
Yeah. 

546
00:33:26,900 --> 00:33:30,200
And here you are the 2021 Lila. 
Yeah. 

547
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:35,900
Great granny it's a great great 
grandpa greatest gift at the 

548
00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:40,000
moment. 
The grandparents stage first, I 

549
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:46,000
just I want to, I want to just 
relay how grateful I am because 

550
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,300
of being chosen to be a part of 
the, the movie. 

551
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,000
It gave me the platform, but it 
also gave me the opportunity. 

552
00:33:54,200 --> 00:34:01,100
For tunity to touch other lives.
And it gave me the lesson of 

553
00:34:01,100 --> 00:34:06,300
learning to accept love because 
it at times, it became very 

554
00:34:06,300 --> 00:34:12,199
overwhelming, but the love that 
was given to me by people that I

555
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:15,100
didn't know. 
But that the story had touched, 

556
00:34:15,100 --> 00:34:19,199
strengthened me and kept me 
going day after day after day, 

557
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,400
and even today, I still get 
reached from across the world 

558
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,300
people In touch with me through 
Facebook and things. 

559
00:34:26,500 --> 00:34:31,400
I had an actress in La not long 
after the documentary came out 

560
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:36,100
that I actually went to LA and 
and gave her points because she 

561
00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:40,100
was playing a mother that had 
lost a son in war in a play in 

562
00:34:40,100 --> 00:34:43,500
LA. 
So being able to be used in 

563
00:34:43,500 --> 00:34:48,699
those Avenues is is really a 
gift that you've given me to be 

564
00:34:48,699 --> 00:34:53,000
able to go forward and to be 
able to use my voice to get 

565
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:58,500
others to vote. because, I get 
so tired of hearing people say, 

566
00:34:58,500 --> 00:35:00,500
well, my vote doesn't count 
anyways. 

567
00:35:00,900 --> 00:35:04,400
Yes it does. 
And it's clear that it does 

568
00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:08,900
through the last election. 
They now what we need to do is 

569
00:35:08,900 --> 00:35:12,100
start looking at the things that
they keep shoving in all these 

570
00:35:12,100 --> 00:35:15,000
bills that they're trying to 
pass because people don't 

571
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:19,400
understand that, yes, this might
be a bill on abortion but what 

572
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,500
other things are going through 
the lines with it? 

573
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:28,800
And keeping people afraid gives 
them the power keeping people 

574
00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:33,200
held back gives them the power. 
But when you use your voice to 

575
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,500
speak out, you take their power 
away from. 

576
00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:40,700
I mean, you stand in your own 
power, don't let people silent 

577
00:35:40,700 --> 00:35:42,800
you. 
I tell my kids all the time. 

578
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,200
If you don't have the answer to 
the question, somebody does, I 

579
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,700
had to go to the White House 
through Michael Moore to get the

580
00:35:50,700 --> 00:35:54,400
answers to my questions. 
And I was able to teach my 

581
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,700
family, don't stop. 
If you're not satisfied with the

582
00:35:57,700 --> 00:36:00,700
information that you're given, 
they can't speak. 

583
00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:04,100
They can't keep its eye on it. 
They might be able to black out 

584
00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:07,700
the lines and not tell you 
everything, but eventually 

585
00:36:07,700 --> 00:36:10,600
somebody's going to have to step
up and tell you what really what

586
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,300
you really need to know. 
But you have to find the courage

587
00:36:13,300 --> 00:36:19,200
within and you have to start 
where you are and I just want to

588
00:36:19,207 --> 00:36:22,100
encourage everybody that as you 
go through. 

589
00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:26,200
Your day, Pay It Forward smile 
at somebody, because you don't 

590
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:31,100
know what they're going through.
All right, I smile at people and

591
00:36:31,500 --> 00:36:34,100
there might be a little kids 
after school trying to buy a 

592
00:36:34,100 --> 00:36:35,700
snack and don't have enough 
money. 

593
00:36:35,900 --> 00:36:39,100
Buy it for them. 
What harm is that to you? 

594
00:36:39,300 --> 00:36:42,900
You have to pay it forward and 
if you get sick and tired of all

595
00:36:42,900 --> 00:36:46,400
the negativity surrounding, you 
have to break it and you have to

596
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,500
turn the light on and you have 
to surround yourself with the 

597
00:36:49,500 --> 00:36:52,000
light and the piece the 
fireplace. 

598
00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:56,400
You just you have to find peace 
within and in order to find 

599
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,300
peace and strength from within, 
you have to step out of yourself

600
00:36:59,500 --> 00:37:01,400
and you gave me that 
opportunity. 

601
00:37:01,700 --> 00:37:05,900
Well thank you for saying that 
but I sometimes I wonder 

602
00:37:05,900 --> 00:37:07,300
sometimes you don't have a 
choice. 

603
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:11,000
What brought us to your living 
room in Flint that night? 

604
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,500
You know, we were given a list 
by that time. 

605
00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:17,800
There have been a number of 
people in the Flint area given 

606
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:23,300
their lives in Iraq Afghanistan.
And we I came to you first 

607
00:37:23,300 --> 00:37:26,900
actually and when we left well, 
first of all we knew we didn't 

608
00:37:26,900 --> 00:37:31,900
need to really go speak with 
anyone else because I think it 

609
00:37:31,900 --> 00:37:36,300
really took us a while to 
recover from meeting you, your 

610
00:37:36,300 --> 00:37:40,400
family, we felt like, when we 
left, we we knew who Michael 

611
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:46,400
was, those of us on my crew, who
grew up in Flint, Flint area. 

612
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:52,600
So, in that way, as a fellow 
Flintstone, we knew Michael, 

613
00:37:53,100 --> 00:37:57,400
when you and thank you for 
giving me. 

614
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,500
I guess, the privilege of being 
able to carry your voice 

615
00:38:00,500 --> 00:38:01,500
forward. 
Yeah. 

616
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:06,300
And to, and to have millions 
here at, I've got to believe, 

617
00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:09,800
it's done some good, it has and 
yes I believe it. 

618
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,000
Well and you've encountered 
people who told you that and 

619
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,600
what it meant what it what it 
did. 

620
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:19,100
So Michael would you gave our 
family is that our son will 

621
00:38:19,100 --> 00:38:23,300
never die Troy has 500 years 
from now. 

622
00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:25,100
Somebody's going to click on a 
link. 

623
00:38:25,700 --> 00:38:27,600
Yes. 
And there are Sun is going to be

624
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,300
I love you, Michael. 
I'm so thankful for you in our 

625
00:38:31,300 --> 00:38:35,800
life, man. 
I will when my best friend's 

626
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,700
lives in Columbus, Ohio. 
So I, when I'm through their 

627
00:38:38,700 --> 00:38:42,600
next, we will get together catch
up and thank you for the good 

628
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:47,400
words that you've given people 
here tonight and just keep on 

629
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,500
doing what you're doing. 
Lila, it's smart. 

630
00:38:49,500 --> 00:38:53,800
It's important to you too and be
safe, Michael, please be safe. 

631
00:38:53,900 --> 00:38:56,500
Oh yeah, no, no, don't worry 
about anything. 

632
00:38:56,900 --> 00:38:58,900
He said, just Before it 
happened. 

633
00:39:00,700 --> 00:39:03,000
And thank you for that. 
What you've got on that screen 

634
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,800
behind you before we were live. 
Here. 

635
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:10,100
I see you put that on there. 
It's a fire on a beach. 

636
00:39:10,100 --> 00:39:12,500
Yes. 
Ed and and she said it's for 

637
00:39:12,500 --> 00:39:15,000
you. 
I said nobody thinks of me on a 

638
00:39:15,008 --> 00:39:19,800
beach with a fire and you said 
it's the help. 

639
00:39:20,100 --> 00:39:23,200
Relax. 
Yes, and create peace. 

640
00:39:23,500 --> 00:39:27,100
Yeah. 
And and then I instantly relaxed

641
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:32,700
and Felt so great that you were 
here tonight, you turn the light

642
00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:34,900
on Michael. 
You stay in the light, stay in 

643
00:39:34,900 --> 00:39:35,900
the light. 
Yeah. 

644
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,200
Wow. 
And Still I Rise. 

645
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,600
Yes. 
That's right everybody here that

646
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,300
yes, please, everybody think 
that. 

647
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,500
Yeah. 
All of us do that. 

648
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,800
We're going to be in pretty good
shape. 

649
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,800
I'll just smile just smile at 
somebody. 

650
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:52,700
Yes. 
Well, I've always been a big 

651
00:39:52,700 --> 00:39:55,700
believer that humor is maybe the
best medicine. 

652
00:39:55,700 --> 00:39:57,900
Yes, to be able to laugh. 
They have a sense of humor. 

653
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:01,000
You know, that's one thing. 
I didn't tell you that, in the 

654
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:05,300
very beginning, is how we 
actually survived the news of 

655
00:40:05,300 --> 00:40:11,100
our Michael dying was Tyler 
Perry is the Madea. 

656
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:15,200
Yes, Lord. 
And I put it on, literally had 

657
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,400
to pause it. 
We fell off the bed laughing so 

658
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:20,600
hard, that we both wet 
ourselves. 

659
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,700
Oh my God, and I have the 
opportunity. 

660
00:40:23,700 --> 00:40:25,600
When Tyler was in Flint to meet 
him. 

661
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:29,200
He brought me backstage and met 
my Laurie as well. 

662
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:32,800
And that was, that was before 
the movie actually. 

663
00:40:33,300 --> 00:40:36,700
No, I think it was after it came
out when we finally got to meet 

664
00:40:36,700 --> 00:40:40,400
tire. 
But he is such a jewel and he's 

665
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,300
such a personal to me the Flint.
Yes. 

666
00:40:43,300 --> 00:40:46,800
All of that, yes. 
Well, I did not know that story 

667
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:51,800
and but it's the truth. 
Watch a funny movie laughter. 

668
00:40:52,100 --> 00:40:55,100
Whatever can get, it's a healing
power. 

669
00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,600
And, and even just like, You 
said, just that smile on your 

670
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,200
face, can sometimes turn that 
day around. 

671
00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:05,900
Yes. 
So I'm a big believer in that 

672
00:41:05,900 --> 00:41:11,000
and and being raised in this 
Irish Catholic Family, humor, 

673
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,300
humor is very important and will
I used to say, I used to say to 

674
00:41:15,300 --> 00:41:17,600
people. 
It said, what, you know, you 

675
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,200
don't drink. 
I said, yeah, I'm somewhere 

676
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:20,600
because I'm supposed to drink as
I'm Irish. 

677
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,600
But I said know why I know that 
that it's either their choices, 

678
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,700
either laughter or drinking and 
I chose laughter. 

679
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,300
But any time I say that or 
anybody who's Irish they going, 

680
00:41:30,700 --> 00:41:34,100
dude, we do both, which you can 
do pop. 

681
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:38,600
It's okay. 
Have a drink on me and keep 

682
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,500
laughing. 
So anyways. 

683
00:41:40,500 --> 00:41:45,900
Alright, probably love you babe.
So thank you for joining us. 

684
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,200
Much love to you and your love 
you, too. 

685
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,000
Yes thanks, we'll see you soon. 
Ok bye bye. 

686
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:52,900
Take care. 
Wow. 

687
00:41:52,900 --> 00:41:57,900
It was really great to hear 
laila's voice and the strength 

688
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,600
in her. 
After all these years of all 

689
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,800
this loss, this grief it's very 
powerful. 

690
00:42:06,100 --> 00:42:09,800
We got thousands of emails on 
Friday night and on Saturday 

691
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,800
morning at people wanting to 
share their love and strength 

692
00:42:13,900 --> 00:42:18,100
with Lila. 
And we also receive thousands of

693
00:42:18,100 --> 00:42:21,000
emails over the weekend. 
The first part of the week here 

694
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:24,800
from people who Loved hearing 
from former Marine Corporal 

695
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:32,500
Abdul Henderson who appeared in 
my film Fahrenheit 9/11, here is

696
00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:38,300
my conversation with Abdul. 
He was a Corporal in the United 

697
00:42:38,300 --> 00:42:44,500
States Marine Corps. 
He served in Iraq, in 2003, and 

698
00:42:44,500 --> 00:42:50,000
one of our producers of this 
film, Nikki Lazar was looking 

699
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:55,300
for people and covering a A 
panel of military families speak

700
00:42:55,300 --> 00:42:58,600
out against the war that had 
members of Congress. 

701
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,900
There congressman John Conyers 
from Detroit Maxine Waters from 

702
00:43:02,900 --> 00:43:09,700
LA and Diane Watson from La so 
that's to LA and one Detroit on 

703
00:43:09,700 --> 00:43:14,700
the panel if you're keeping 
score at home but he gave a sort

704
00:43:14,700 --> 00:43:20,000
of an impassioned speech. 
Talk comment there and Nikki 

705
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,800
went over and talked. 
To him and then came back. 

706
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:28,100
And we thought we would ask 
Abdul if he would like to be in 

707
00:43:28,100 --> 00:43:31,000
the film. 
And so we talked to him, we 

708
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,700
interviewed him on camera. 
We did a lot of shooting around 

709
00:43:33,700 --> 00:43:35,300
Capitol Hill and then I asked 
them. 

710
00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:39,200
I was going to ask members of 
Congress as they went in out of 

711
00:43:39,207 --> 00:43:42,400
their Congressional buildings. 
If they would be willing to send

712
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:48,300
their son or daughter to Iraq 
and and see what they would say.

713
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:53,500
And I asked Abdul if he would do
this, With me and so I'd like to

714
00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:57,200
bring him on right now, are you 
retired or do we say former 

715
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,600
former Corporal? 
Former Marine former Marine 

716
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,500
former Marine mr. 
Abdul Henderson Abdul. 

717
00:44:03,500 --> 00:44:05,400
Thanks so much for being with us
tonight. 

718
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,800
No, no problem is good to see 
you again, Michael. 

719
00:44:07,900 --> 00:44:11,300
So why don't we talk about the 
story of that day where I asked 

720
00:44:11,300 --> 00:44:14,800
you, if you would join me in 
this search for a member of 

721
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,800
Congress, or senator, who would 
be willing to have their kid in 

722
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,600
a wreck because I had read 
somewhere prior to that that 

723
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,900
there. 
Is only one Senator and no 

724
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:29,600
members of Congress who had an 
offspring, the daughter or son 

725
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,500
in Iraq. 
Except for one, there was one 

726
00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:35,100
Democrat. 
And that was it. 

727
00:44:35,700 --> 00:44:38,900
So I asked you if you wanted to 
join me and and then I thought 

728
00:44:38,900 --> 00:44:40,900
immediately, I'll choose I don't
want to get you in trouble 

729
00:44:40,900 --> 00:44:44,500
because you know, your, your 
your first of all you're you're 

730
00:44:44,500 --> 00:44:49,000
still in the Marines, you are 
doing this with me, that's 

731
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,000
important. 
Marshall, below fence, right 

732
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:53,900
there. 
If there ever was One and and 

733
00:44:53,900 --> 00:44:55,600
you were doing it, you had your 
uniform on. 

734
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:58,900
Yeah, and I thought, you know, 
my dad was a marine, so I kind 

735
00:44:58,900 --> 00:45:02,400
of know the rules and I thought,
oh, this is really going to get 

736
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,900
you in trouble. 
Just want me back to that to 

737
00:45:04,900 --> 00:45:06,500
that moment. 
There were, we were discussing 

738
00:45:06,500 --> 00:45:10,400
this before we decided whether 
or not, we should risk your 

739
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,300
entire career. 
Yeah. 

740
00:45:12,300 --> 00:45:15,400
No. 
When I remember, we had the 

741
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,900
conversation about wearing my 
uniform. 

742
00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:20,900
I was just like, let me, let me 
think about that one. 

743
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,100
Right. 
So yeah, you were worried about 

744
00:45:24,100 --> 00:45:25,400
it. 
Oh yeah, yeah. 

745
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,800
I knew gentlemen, legitimately 
it was that was going to be 

746
00:45:30,900 --> 00:45:33,900
life-changing because, you know,
I have to make a decision that 

747
00:45:33,900 --> 00:45:37,300
that was virtually going to end 
my military career. 

748
00:45:37,300 --> 00:45:38,700
Right. 
Right, right. 

749
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:40,600
You trevan cement, and you 
thought about. 

750
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,800
Maybe you would stay in the 
Marines or originally. 

751
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:49,500
I wanted to, I want to be a 
pilot man. 

752
00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:53,000
I'm doing 20 years. 
But after all, Rach, my whole 

753
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,200
disposition changed. 
It's just, you know, they called

754
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,000
Iraq, the sandbox. 
And I didn't want to play in the

755
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,800
sandbox anymore. 
I remember when we were talking 

756
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,900
there, before we started 
approaching members of Congress,

757
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,300
I asked you, you know, if called
because you're still in the 

758
00:46:09,300 --> 00:46:13,200
Marines, would you go back after
everything you'd seen in Iraq? 

759
00:46:13,700 --> 00:46:18,300
And you said know, if you get 
called up, you go back to Iraq. 

760
00:46:18,300 --> 00:46:21,700
No. 
You know what? 

761
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,500
What repercussions do you face 
is possible? 

762
00:46:25,500 --> 00:46:28,100
Jail time? 
That's one possible thing. 

763
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:32,000
Are you willing to risk that? 
Yes, it's sad. 

764
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:40,500
I will not let my person. 
I will I will not let anyone 

765
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:45,700
send me back over there to kill 
all the poor people especially 

766
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,900
when they pose no threat to me 
and my country. 

767
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:57,300
I won't do it. 
Then I remember stopping and 

768
00:46:57,300 --> 00:47:01,400
saying you want to, you want to 
say that on camera and you 

769
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,600
thought about it? 
You said yes I do because it's 

770
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,300
the truth. 
I'm not going to go back and 

771
00:47:06,300 --> 00:47:09,800
participate in and you would 
already I think told us to about

772
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:12,800
how you felt about what you saw 
there in Iraq. 

773
00:47:13,700 --> 00:47:18,600
So I said, okay, well then I 
guess worrying about wearing 

774
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:23,200
your uniform is not your biggest
concern now Yoo-hoo, Just you're

775
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,400
going to say publicly that you 
are going to disobey an order if

776
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,900
you have been ordered to go back
and do whatever we were doing in

777
00:47:31,900 --> 00:47:36,500
Iraq. 
Yeah no yeah wasn't going to go 

778
00:47:36,500 --> 00:47:38,800
back, you know, interesting 
enough. 

779
00:47:40,100 --> 00:47:43,900
I hadn't decided that until in 
that moment right? 

780
00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:47,900
I had had you had not decided 
until that moment. 

781
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:52,200
Yeah I hadn't thought about it. 
Like I knew it was potentially 

782
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,400
going to Get me in trouble but I
had not thought about it but I 

783
00:47:55,400 --> 00:48:00,800
knew how I felt and so when you 
when you ask me it was really 

784
00:48:00,900 --> 00:48:06,000
simple for me at that point like
nah not going back like it's 

785
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,300
it's not ripping and you explain
a little bit the film before the

786
00:48:10,300 --> 00:48:13,500
people watching here. 
Right now, the reason you were 

787
00:48:13,500 --> 00:48:18,200
not going to go back and 
participate in what you felt was

788
00:48:18,200 --> 00:48:22,200
this immoral. 
Illegal War me just explain. 

789
00:48:22,500 --> 00:48:24,500
How you got to that that 
position? 

790
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,400
Yeah. 
Just from what I saw is that 

791
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,400
Iraq posed. 
No immediate threat to America. 

792
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:38,400
What we were told was all false 
and this dangerous imminent 

793
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:42,000
threat that had weapons of mass 
destruction and have the 

794
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:46,500
capability of launching attacks 
on Americans was wasn't real 

795
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,000
like that country had no 
defenses. 

796
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:53,300
We ran through there with 
Movies. 

797
00:48:53,300 --> 00:49:00,400
And for my unit, in, in the 
beginning of the conflict, you 

798
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:04,700
know, we secured the oil fields.
That was our first objective was

799
00:49:04,700 --> 00:49:09,500
to go into the room oil fields 
and, you know, I think, you 

800
00:49:09,500 --> 00:49:13,000
know, we have a concept as 
Americans that the Middle East 

801
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:17,200
has a lot of oil but when you 
get on the ground you actually 

802
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,400
said you like oh my God, this 
stuff comes up out of the ground

803
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,900
like it's on its own. 
Right? 

804
00:49:24,100 --> 00:49:27,800
Yeah, it does Lakes of oil and 
it's just, it's like, wow. 

805
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,600
So, you know, you kind of get 
the gist of what this war was 

806
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:36,500
about. 
And, you know, I just didn't 

807
00:49:36,500 --> 00:49:39,900
want to have any part of having 
to kill anymore. 

808
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,800
You know, people that didn't 
pose a threat to my country 

809
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:48,400
because they clearly didn't ya, 
it's that famous quote from 

810
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,400
Muhammad Ali. 
When they tried to draft him and

811
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:56,300
he refused to go To be a noun. 
And and he made that famous 

812
00:49:56,300 --> 00:49:59,300
statement about you. 
No, no, no Vietnamese ever 

813
00:49:59,300 --> 00:50:02,400
called me the n-word. 
Yeah, you know, it's like I 

814
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,600
don't have a fight with them, 
they're not a threat to me so 

815
00:50:06,500 --> 00:50:10,400
but I'm I was actually thinking 
of his statement when you said 

816
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:14,800
that on camera and I thought 
geez you know, Muhammad Ali was 

817
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:18,100
like a really famous and beloved
person body. 

818
00:50:18,700 --> 00:50:23,600
You know, at least half the 
country and he I mean, they 

819
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:27,000
essentially, they arrested him, 
they booked him and his case 

820
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,100
went all the way to the Supreme 
Court, you know? 

821
00:50:29,100 --> 00:50:31,300
So if Muhammad Ali had to go 
through that, I could only 

822
00:50:31,300 --> 00:50:33,400
imagine what they were going to 
do to you. 

823
00:50:33,700 --> 00:50:36,800
Because, you know, we were 
living in. 

824
00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:38,800
We've always been living in 
these times. 

825
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,000
I want I keep saying, I think 
right now what we're going 

826
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:42,900
through and I think, geez, I 
think we've been through this 

827
00:50:42,900 --> 00:50:44,700
before. 
Yeah, you know. 

828
00:50:44,900 --> 00:50:46,800
So, but okay. 
So anyways. 

829
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:51,800
So then you agreed to be a 
recruiter with me there. 

830
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,300
Yeah. 
Of the members of Congress and 

831
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:58,300
tell me what you remember about 
that scene. 

832
00:50:58,300 --> 00:51:01,400
Because we were there for a good
hour to yeah, you only see it 

833
00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,700
kind of a bit of it in the film,
but but I'm just, I'm curious 

834
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:07,200
how you were maintaining through
that. 

835
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,200
And what was how you were 
processing this? 

836
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:15,200
Because these were like really 
powerful, I think men, mostly 

837
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:22,300
all men that we were costing 
non-violently, but just tell me.

838
00:51:22,500 --> 00:51:26,000
He just what I've never asked 
you this just what, what was 

839
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:30,200
going through your head and and 
were you thinking of maybe 

840
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,500
adding something else to the 
scene? 

841
00:51:33,700 --> 00:51:35,800
I was thinking like, man, this 
is crazy. 

842
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,200
We give my ass of serious 
trouble. 

843
00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:42,600
Yeah, yes. 
Why did I let this guy talk me 

844
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:47,700
into this but now it was 
interesting, you know, I found 

845
00:51:47,700 --> 00:51:52,200
it interesting that only a few 
members of Congress. 

846
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:57,000
Engage most of it all. 
Yeah, run away. 

847
00:51:57,900 --> 00:51:59,800
But that's, you know that they 
ran. 

848
00:51:59,800 --> 00:52:01,200
And didn't they? 
Some of them ran? 

849
00:52:01,300 --> 00:52:03,500
Yeah. 
I think it was Congressman 

850
00:52:03,500 --> 00:52:06,000
Doolittle at the time. 
He got it, right? 

851
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,900
Ran away and then we start after
him. 

852
00:52:08,900 --> 00:52:11,100
But then I'm thinking. 
Why is he running? 

853
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:15,100
He could, he could literally 
Escape me, just threw a casual 

854
00:52:15,100 --> 00:52:17,500
walk. 
Well, I mean, I every American 

855
00:52:17,500 --> 00:52:20,000
at some point in their life 
should be able to have the 

856
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:24,400
experience of a congressman. 
Seeing them and running from 

857
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:29,500
them, wouldn't it be a great 
shared American experience but 

858
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,500
do you remember any of the 
others or their their response 

859
00:52:32,500 --> 00:52:34,200
to us? 
One gentleman. 

860
00:52:34,700 --> 00:52:37,600
Think he had served in a maybe I
don't remember his name. 

861
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:42,600
He actually stopped and and 
chatted with this and I think he

862
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:47,200
shared some some similar 
sentiment in terms of that other

863
00:52:47,200 --> 00:52:49,600
members of Congress need to have
some skin in the game. 

864
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:54,400
You know, why not their children
be on the Lines for these these 

865
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:59,100
these Wards, you know, why don't
they have that shared sacrifice 

866
00:52:59,300 --> 00:53:04,500
like many of us other Americans 
that volunteer right, right. 

867
00:53:04,500 --> 00:53:06,800
Either some of them didn't get 
the point where they really got 

868
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,400
the point and wanted nothing to 
do with us. 

869
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:12,000
There were a couple that were 
friendly. 

870
00:53:12,300 --> 00:53:15,200
If I remember correctly, though.
I think we saw that just one of 

871
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,300
them maybe this there. 
I just thought well, you know, 

872
00:53:18,300 --> 00:53:20,800
they're politicians, there's a 
red light on the camera. 

873
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:25,500
It's very Seductive to them 
because they are always looking 

874
00:53:25,500 --> 00:53:29,300
for the red light to be on 
camera, to be on TV. 

875
00:53:30,900 --> 00:53:33,900
But at the end of the day, it 
was really kind of a, kind of a 

876
00:53:33,900 --> 00:53:36,200
real kind of at some point. 
It wasn't funny anymore and it 

877
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:37,500
was just kind of a kick in the 
gut. 

878
00:53:37,500 --> 00:53:39,600
Wasn't it? 
Just like, yeah, of course, send

879
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:43,200
everybody else's kid, but no, 
no, no way not yours, right? 

880
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:44,900
Right. 
So, since then, how he been 

881
00:53:44,900 --> 00:53:48,500
doing, I mean, obviously, you 
left the Marines did you get in 

882
00:53:48,500 --> 00:53:51,500
any trouble? 
They did investigate me. 

883
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,400
I think they, I truly wanted to 
court-martial me and throw me 

884
00:53:55,900 --> 00:54:00,700
under the prison, but none of 
that happened. 

885
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:06,400
I end up having to go back to my
unit and I kind of just some 

886
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,700
just floated kind of under the 
radar as much as possible until 

887
00:54:10,700 --> 00:54:15,100
my time right out. 
So fortunately nothing happened 

888
00:54:15,100 --> 00:54:19,600
that I did my time. 
I was honorably discharged and I

889
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,600
went on with my life. 
Hmm. 

890
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:23,900
Wow. 
Well that's that's guy. 

891
00:54:23,900 --> 00:54:27,600
No, we offered you before we 
left there that day that we will

892
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:30,800
get you an attorney and pay for 
it if there's you know any 

893
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,400
trouble. 
So maybe when the film came out 

894
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,400
to it they probably maybe they 
thought. 

895
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:37,000
You know what? 
This is going to be more trouble

896
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,500
that we need. 
If we go after this, this young 

897
00:54:40,500 --> 00:54:44,400
guy, you know, let's just, let's
just hope nobody sees the film. 

898
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:50,000
And I, when I, when I had 
conversations with my command 

899
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:53,100
staff at the time, once the 
movie came out, I'm out and I 

900
00:54:53,107 --> 00:54:56,900
was just like, yeah, won't be 
doing anything in uniform again,

901
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,700
right? 
I was kind of just like, but 

902
00:55:00,700 --> 00:55:04,100
that's not going to prevent me 
from speaking out as a, you 

903
00:55:04,100 --> 00:55:08,200
know, as an American at this, 
won't be representing the Marine

904
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:12,700
Corps in uniform because as an 
American, I have a right to 

905
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,800
express. 
My my opinion, I do have the 

906
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,100
right to free speech, right? 
When we have the premier there, 

907
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:24,300
the Washington DC premiere There
are a number of members of 

908
00:55:24,300 --> 00:55:30,000
Congress and Senators. 
They came to that screening and 

909
00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:33,800
more than ones, you know, pulled
me aside and said, if that young

910
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,200
Marine needs any help, just let 
us know. 

911
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,800
And I said, you know, I will but
so you got out of the Marines 

912
00:55:41,100 --> 00:55:43,700
and what's your life been like 
since then? 

913
00:55:43,700 --> 00:55:48,400
I've I met you and we've run 
across each other numerous times

914
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:52,600
in past years. 
In fact, you were working for Or

915
00:55:52,900 --> 00:55:56,800
a member of Congress at one 
point you weren't you like the 

916
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:00,200
person that was like the the 
civilian person that that sort 

917
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,400
of helped run the Congressional 
Black Caucus in my right in. 

918
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:05,500
Remembering that? 
Yeah yeah. 

919
00:56:05,500 --> 00:56:08,500
So the first represent I worked 
for Diane Watson. 

920
00:56:08,700 --> 00:56:10,900
Hmm. 
Ultimately became her chief of 

921
00:56:10,900 --> 00:56:15,000
staff and then retired. 
And then I work for Karen bass, 

922
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,300
who replaced her for a very 
short period. 

923
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,700
Really, really went on to work 
at the Department of Veterans 

924
00:56:21,700 --> 00:56:23,400
Affairs. 
Why I read home? 

925
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:26,900
Let the Department's 
International and engagement 

926
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:32,900
working with are our allies, 
mainly Canada, Australia, and 

927
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:35,500
New Zealand and the United 
Kingdom. 

928
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:41,400
Actually, there's some really 
good work in helping veterans in

929
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,400
that space. 
Did that for a few years. 

930
00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:47,900
And then I went back to Capitol 
Hill as the executive director 

931
00:56:47,900 --> 00:56:51,700
of the Congressional Black 
Caucus and okay already this is 

932
00:56:51,700 --> 00:56:53,100
better than being In a movie 
starring. 

933
00:56:53,100 --> 00:56:56,600
Yeah. 
Everything you just said is so 

934
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,600
and makes them far greater 
contribution to our society. 

935
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:03,000
So wow. 
So that's right. 

936
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:08,600
I remembered that and I thought 
damn Abdul's done well but we 

937
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,500
sort of knew that about you. 
Anyways that that day there in 

938
00:57:11,500 --> 00:57:16,500
d.c., you were a very special 
person and had guts and the 

939
00:57:16,508 --> 00:57:20,000
courage to do this to do this on
camera, all of that. 

940
00:57:20,500 --> 00:57:23,700
So how's life been since The 
executive director of the 

941
00:57:23,700 --> 00:57:28,000
Congressional Black Caucus was, 
it's been interesting. 

942
00:57:28,300 --> 00:57:31,300
I'm just kind of watched this 
transition that our country is 

943
00:57:31,300 --> 00:57:34,700
going to because I left after 
two years into that. 

944
00:57:34,700 --> 00:57:39,600
So as the as the as a trump 
train pulled in, I moved out and

945
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:44,300
so I found to Georgia to be 
closer to my son's because 

946
00:57:44,300 --> 00:57:46,800
they're in high school. 
My oldest son, Alex is now a 

947
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,700
senior in high school so we're 
getting ready for him to bring 

948
00:57:51,500 --> 00:57:54,700
my youngest son. 
Son, he's in the 10th grade and 

949
00:57:54,700 --> 00:57:57,100
doing well. 
So I came to Georgia to be 

950
00:57:57,100 --> 00:58:00,300
closer to them. 
I was here for a couple of years

951
00:58:00,300 --> 00:58:05,300
and then left the San Francisco 
and then I end up working with 

952
00:58:05,300 --> 00:58:08,900
Tom steyer and I was his Deputy 
campaign manager for his 

953
00:58:08,900 --> 00:58:12,400
presidential campaign in 2010. 
Wow, yeah. 

954
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,200
So a lots been going on. 
But nah. 

955
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,900
Now I'm back in Georgia, I'm 
running a mental health 

956
00:58:18,900 --> 00:58:22,200
nonprofit called Mental Health, 
America of Georgia. 

957
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:27,200
And we're trying to get Georgia 
from being last place. 

958
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:31,100
In terms of access to mental 
health care and making sure that

959
00:58:31,100 --> 00:58:34,900
they enforce the parity law, to 
make sure that insurance is 

960
00:58:34,900 --> 00:58:39,200
going to cover mental health and
substance abuse care that people

961
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:44,400
that are paying for insurance, 
you know, expect so right. 

962
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,000
I now we have to get to that 
place. 

963
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,000
Where when we talk about 
Healthcare, we're not just 

964
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:49,900
talking about medical right 
here. 

965
00:58:49,900 --> 00:58:54,800
We're talking about mental and 
dental, All or mental Dental is 

966
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,000
what I would put on my bumper 
sticker, If I was running for 

967
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,200
anything. 
But no, we need all of this 

968
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:02,800
because it's all connected and 
I'm glad, I'm so glad to know 

969
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,800
that you're doing this there in 
Georgia that such important work

970
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:10,100
Abdul and everybody knows that 
now I just, I hope I denotes 

971
00:59:10,100 --> 00:59:13,800
that knows it because when 
they're ready to push forward on

972
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:20,100
the, you know, getting Universal
Health Care for everyone, you 

973
00:59:20,100 --> 00:59:21,400
know, that's got to be part of 
it. 

974
00:59:21,500 --> 00:59:23,400
Yeah. 
I hope so too. 

975
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:29,000
We have a long way to go this 
this pandemic has definitely 

976
00:59:30,100 --> 00:59:35,300
showed some some huge fissures 
in the you know them and 

977
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:40,500
unfortunately we weren't 
prepared to deal with it and 

978
00:59:40,500 --> 00:59:43,100
weird suffering from the 
consequences of not being 

979
00:59:43,100 --> 00:59:46,800
prepared, right? 
How have you and your family 

980
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:51,400
been with covid, everybody. 
Okay, everybody's fine 

981
00:59:51,500 --> 00:59:53,400
interesting. 
Being enough. 

982
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:59,600
Everyone had got covid at some 
point but me me and went all 

983
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:04,800
night Nate who is now deceased 
he had passed away from 

984
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:09,100
Parkinson's dementia related 
stuff. 

985
01:00:09,300 --> 01:00:12,900
Michael, I'm sorry but 
everybody's fine, where were all

986
01:00:12,900 --> 01:00:15,200
vaccinated. 
We're just taking measures to 

987
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:19,700
stay safe and right. 
Maintain a good balance, right? 

988
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,800
Well, we all have to get through
this because we have, A lot of 

989
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:26,400
work to do, is there anything 
you like to save, just to give 

990
01:00:26,400 --> 01:00:30,600
you the final word here to just 
speak directly to all these 

991
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:33,500
people who are very concerned 
about. 

992
01:00:33,500 --> 01:00:38,000
I think a lot of the things that
are going on right now and the 

993
01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:42,500
various fights ahead of us and 
those who want to stop, 

994
01:00:42,900 --> 01:00:46,200
President Biden from enacting 
the things he's trying to do. 

995
01:00:46,500 --> 01:00:48,600
I'm just curious what your take 
would be and what you'd like to 

996
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:50,900
just. 
I just open up the floor to you 

997
01:00:50,900 --> 01:00:53,900
and speak directly. 
To all the people out there. 

998
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:57,700
Yeah, I appreciate that one out.
Just like to. 

999
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:03,800
Thank everybody who supported me
through a very difficult time 

1000
01:01:03,800 --> 01:01:06,400
and going through that process 
because at the time when the 

1001
01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:12,900
film did come out, everyone 90% 
of everybody was in support of 

1002
01:01:13,700 --> 01:01:16,400
the war on terror, right? 
Right, yeah. 

1003
01:01:17,200 --> 01:01:22,300
And so for those who supported 
me through that and taking that 

1004
01:01:22,300 --> 01:01:30,200
step Yes, I really do appreciate
and love you all, you know? 

1005
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:37,600
I I think, you know, as I think 
about the last 20, plus years of

1006
01:01:38,900 --> 01:01:43,700
what's been going on in the u.s.
I think we have to do a little 

1007
01:01:43,700 --> 01:01:46,800
bit better and holding people 
accountable, right? 

1008
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,600
We still have an issue of 
accountability in this country. 

1009
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:57,300
We've allowed elected officials 
to to go on, to just move that 

1010
01:01:57,300 --> 01:02:01,000
as quo. 
When the American people are 

1011
01:02:01,100 --> 01:02:05,300
clearly moving in a different 
direction, our country is a lot 

1012
01:02:05,300 --> 01:02:11,000
more diverse but we still see, 
tremendous, lacks, lack of 

1013
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:17,700
diversity and Equity. 
You know, we just people need to

1014
01:02:17,700 --> 01:02:21,800
stay involved in Civic 
engagement. 

1015
01:02:22,900 --> 01:02:26,200
Is the Bedrock and Foundation of
our Republic. 

1016
01:02:26,700 --> 01:02:32,300
And in order to maintain that 
one, we have to be engaged one. 

1017
01:02:32,300 --> 01:02:38,200
We must demand and seek the 
truth and we have to stay 

1018
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:43,200
informed. 
We can't just re clickbait and 

1019
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:47,500
decide that it's fact, we have 
to go a little bit deeper than 

1020
01:02:47,500 --> 01:02:50,200
that and we need to question 
that question. 

1021
01:02:50,200 --> 01:02:54,400
What people tell us You know, 
there's there's ways to do it 

1022
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:57,400
with civil discourse. 
We don't have to hate one 

1023
01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:59,900
another. 
We can do it where we can agree 

1024
01:02:59,900 --> 01:03:05,600
to disagree but you know we have
to challenge the system to do 

1025
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:11,400
better because if we continue at
this rate, I feel that we could 

1026
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:15,900
assume just you know, end up in 
the north or south or east or 

1027
01:03:15,900 --> 01:03:20,500
west situation. 
It's we're coming out of 

1028
01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:28,300
stereos. roads right now, but 
the good thing is, I always 

1029
01:03:28,300 --> 01:03:32,000
believe I'm very hopeful in 
people. 

1030
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,400
There are a lot of great people 
that are doing a lot of great 

1031
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:44,500
things and I will continue to 
work with you Michael and others

1032
01:03:44,500 --> 01:03:48,600
that are promoting fairness and 
justice for everybody. 

1033
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:55,600
And I've been committed to that 
fight even before we met and 

1034
01:03:55,600 --> 01:04:00,900
that I'm committed to that. 
And as a middle-aged adult now. 

1035
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:03,400
Right? 
Right. 

1036
01:04:03,900 --> 01:04:05,900
Yeah. 
It's not time to retire from 

1037
01:04:05,900 --> 01:04:09,500
that not yet, not yet. 
All of us, have that 

1038
01:04:09,500 --> 01:04:12,000
responsibility. 
Well, thank you for those. 

1039
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:15,800
Good words to people out there 
who are watching this right now.

1040
01:04:16,100 --> 01:04:18,900
And thank you so much for being 
in my film. 

1041
01:04:18,900 --> 01:04:22,200
Thank you for taking that risk. 
I was grateful. 

1042
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:27,500
Then I'm grateful now and 
watching this this film, now all

1043
01:04:27,500 --> 01:04:30,900
these Years later. 
Yeah, so proud to have been able

1044
01:04:30,900 --> 01:04:37,200
to stand there beside you and 
disrupt that that particular day

1045
01:04:37,500 --> 01:04:40,500
for certain number of members of
Congress. 

1046
01:04:40,500 --> 01:04:45,100
So thank you and I really 
appreciate you it some of the 

1047
01:04:45,100 --> 01:04:50,400
time that we even spent even 
doing the 04 election cycle. 

1048
01:04:51,300 --> 01:04:55,600
Yes, going around the 
Battleground States and I was 

1049
01:04:55,600 --> 01:04:57,500
great. 
That was that was that was 

1050
01:04:57,500 --> 01:05:00,400
great. 
So I appreciate the work that 

1051
01:05:00,400 --> 01:05:07,300
you and your team does to keep 
people engaged and it's it's 

1052
01:05:07,300 --> 01:05:11,400
been one of the proudest moments
of my life to stand by you and 

1053
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,000
that fighting back at you on 
that one. 

1054
01:05:14,300 --> 01:05:18,500
Thank you so much. 
And let's make sure we stay in 

1055
01:05:18,500 --> 01:05:21,300
good touch and let me know if I 
can help it down there. 

1056
01:05:21,300 --> 01:05:25,800
In Georgia, we all are thinking 
about Georgia for the last year.

1057
01:05:25,900 --> 01:05:29,600
Grateful, the people of Georgia.
You for saving us. 

1058
01:05:30,500 --> 01:05:35,200
They're not quite completely 
saved yet, but man, it would 

1059
01:05:35,200 --> 01:05:39,300
have been much worse without 
those two senators being 

1060
01:05:39,300 --> 01:05:42,600
elected. 
So man, something is rocking 

1061
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:45,400
there in Georgia. 
I'm glad you're part of it, so 

1062
01:05:46,300 --> 01:05:50,000
be well and take care of tool 
and let's so let's talk soon. 

1063
01:05:50,300 --> 01:05:57,900
Yeah, it's good seeing you. 
Wow, so so great to hear from 

1064
01:05:57,900 --> 01:06:02,200
Abdul and by the way, you can 
watch both of these 

1065
01:06:02,200 --> 01:06:07,900
conversations with video with 
both Lila and Abdul on YouTube. 

1066
01:06:07,900 --> 01:06:11,700
And we'll have the link for it 
right here on the podcast 

1067
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:14,700
description page. 
You can also watch Fahrenheit 

1068
01:06:14,700 --> 01:06:19,200
9/11 on YouTube and links. 
Again, we'll be here in the 

1069
01:06:19,200 --> 01:06:21,500
description. 
We decided there's so many 

1070
01:06:21,500 --> 01:06:24,800
people that couldn't watch it 
Friday night for this reasons, 

1071
01:06:24,800 --> 01:06:26,700
especially if they lived in 
Europe, it was 3:00 in the 

1072
01:06:26,700 --> 01:06:29,200
morning. 
So I promised you that we would 

1073
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:33,300
find a way so that you two could
watch a free version of 

1074
01:06:33,300 --> 01:06:37,400
Fahrenheit 9/11. 
And now you can do that at your 

1075
01:06:37,400 --> 01:06:40,800
leisure just by going to the 
link here on the description 

1076
01:06:40,800 --> 01:06:44,000
page for this podcast. 
Thanks to all of you who have 

1077
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:47,800
become paid members to our sub 
stack in the past few days. 

1078
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:52,200
I encourage you to sign up if 
you can, so that you can 

1079
01:06:52,200 --> 01:06:56,600
participate in my first If Q&A 
which will be coming up next 

1080
01:06:56,600 --> 01:07:02,700
week, also participate in my 
next Mike's movie night and 

1081
01:07:02,700 --> 01:07:07,100
other great upcoming events. 
So please sign up for a paid 

1082
01:07:07,100 --> 01:07:09,300
membership, if you can. 
And if you can't no problem 

1083
01:07:09,300 --> 01:07:13,700
because everything I post on sub
stack, whether it's my 

1084
01:07:13,700 --> 01:07:19,000
newsletter, my letter, my essay,
this podcast, it's all free, and

1085
01:07:19,000 --> 01:07:22,500
it will always be free. 
So if you're signed up your in 

1086
01:07:22,500 --> 01:07:28,200
this is, I'm only asking Those 
who can and want to be 

1087
01:07:28,500 --> 01:07:32,600
supporters, sort of our 
co-producers of our next work. 

1088
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:35,700
Be it film or streaming series, 
or whatever. 

1089
01:07:35,700 --> 01:07:38,100
We're going to be doing here in 
the coming year. 

1090
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:41,100
Be part of it. 
We welcome you, we need you. 

1091
01:07:41,700 --> 01:07:46,200
And we'll have fun together 
doing the Ruckus that we're 

1092
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:49,700
going to create. 
So everybody, thank you so much 

1093
01:07:49,900 --> 01:07:53,800
for participating in today's 
podcast Rumble with Michael 

1094
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:54,700
Moore. 
Right. 

1095
01:07:54,700 --> 01:07:58,000
Thanks to our executive 
producer, basil hamdan our 

1096
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:02,600
editor and sound engineer. 
Nick was a researcher Harrison 

1097
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:07,000
Malkin are jack-of-all-trades. 
Donald Bornstein, my friends, 

1098
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:10,200
thank you for tuning into this 
Rumble with Michael Moore. 

1099
01:08:10,200 --> 01:08:13,000
I'll be back with next week's 
podcast. 

1100
01:08:13,500 --> 01:08:16,300
There's a lot going on. 
Become a paid member by Friday 

1101
01:08:16,300 --> 01:08:18,300
midnight. 
If you can, that would be super 

1102
01:08:18,300 --> 01:08:20,399
cool and you could be a founding
member by doing that. 

1103
01:08:20,700 --> 01:08:23,399
So thank you for that. 
Thank you for all the work that 

1104
01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:25,899
you're doing out there. 
There every week, man. 

1105
01:08:25,899 --> 01:08:28,700
It's something, isn't it? 
And we had a victory this week 

1106
01:08:28,700 --> 01:08:30,899
in California. 
Very cool. 

1107
01:08:31,399 --> 01:08:37,399
More victories, more work, more 
the fight so that we can protect

1108
01:08:37,399 --> 01:08:39,500
and preserve our democracy. 
Thank you. 

1109
01:08:39,508 --> 01:08:43,000
My friends be well and enjoy the
weekend.