Hello everyone. This is Michael Moore and you
are listening to my podcast Rumble with Michael Moore and
it's it's one of those rare 60 degree days here in the middle
of February. So that can only We mean that,
what were you have to listen to during this podcast?
Alright, is the construction work in jackhammering that goes
on in the city, whenever they can grab a semi decent day.
These are the sounds we listened to, but it seems to have gone
away for a little bit here, so maybe it won't.
It won't be bothering us. I hope everybody's doing well
and hanging in there. Thanks for all the response to
my weekly letter. That I send out on sub stack
much appreciated and today, I thought we'd check in to see
what's going on in Flint. Michigan, there was an article
recently by the investigative journalist, Jordan Chariton in
the guardian about an investigation that he's done
regarding the Michigan, the former Michigan, attorney
general. And, and the current attorney
general, Regarding racketeering charges that were being
discussed against the former Governor, Rick Snyder, who's the
person responsible for poisoning?
The water in Flint. And then once he was informed
that, that's what he done. It took many months, a year and
a half before they did anything about it.
I'm sorry. I can't let this issue rest.
There has been no justice for the people of Flint.
People still get rashes, and hair loss and other things from
the water there. A lot of it, I think is caused
by the fact that all the piping, you know, the plumbing has not
been replaced. And I think there's been
information that's been put out to the public.
That has led some people to believe that everything's okay
now and and, you know, Flint is getting it together that I don't
think that's the case and I hear from people every week.
Week in Flint, it's a sad story. It's not.
It's not like these other water stories around the country where
we have infrastructure problems and lead in the water.
That's not this. This was done on purpose.
By the former Republican governor.
And a lot of people in Flint are asking, where are the Democrats
who have taken over state government in Lansing, where are
they and why isn't this still fixed?
And why is the former Governor still not in prison?
So we're going to get into all this because we have the
investigative journalist who wrote this recent piece in the
guardian is name is Jordan Chariton.
He's been on Rumble before. He will be joining us shortly
and we'll talk about what's going on, what we can do and
what this means to the rest of the country.
So I'm really happy that you've joined me today and stay tuned
for this. Before we actually go ahead and
get into that. I want to take a moment to
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That's wo n Dr. I um.com one dhyryam.com / were humble Well,
so I'm really honored to welcome Jordan Chariton here to rumble.
Thank you so much for coming back on my podcast.
Jordan, thanks so much for having me, Michael.
So, Jordan, I thought it was important to check back in to
see how Flint was doing with the almost eight year long water
poisoning, that has taken place that began back in April 2014,
where the Republican Governor his staff and the mayor that he
Pointed remove the elected mayor and appointed an unelected
person was called the manager of the city and then did the
bidding of the governor's own. I love listening to you as an
outsider who is come to Flint. Now for many years and done so
much. Great investigative reporting
for The Intercept of the Guardian for your own
organization status coup as in. Cou P Jordan for the people,
maybe are finding out about Flint for the first time here
and you give them that sort of the brief history of this and
then we're going to get into what you've recently, uncovered.
Sure, when Rick Snyder became governor in 2011 Flint you know
like a lot of cities in the industrial Midwest unfortunately
was economically a bit of a In Corpse obviously, Michael, you
showed that in Roger and me Flint, was once the Envy of the
rest of the world, kind of one of the birthplaces of the middle
class, the Auto industry, but for many many reasons by the bid
2010s economically, it was near bankruptcy and Snyder.
Ran for governor fancying himself as an economic wizard,
who can save distressed cities. So, as part of his Effort to
save Flint. They came up with a brilliant
idea. The state officials in the
Snyder Administration, City officials and flint.
And that was, we're going to try and erase Flint's economic
problems and debt. By having Flint join a
completely brand new water system.
Flinthead gotten its water for 50 years from Lake Huron, which
is some of the cleanest water in the world.
The Great Lakes. Detroit's water system and Flint
did not have problems with water quality.
When they received Lake Huron water from the Detroit Water
System, but Flint was also broke in 2014.
It actually had no credit rating and it was legally not allowed
to borrow more money. So how does a broke City join a
brand new water system? That's part of what my latest
story is about. How does a broke City borrow 80?
Five million dollars to join a new water system, so we could
get to that. But in a nutshell, while Flint,
while this new water system, the Carroll County Water Authority
was under construction. That Flint would be joining.
They decided we're just going to use the Flint River for free
theoretically for free. So they only had planned to put.
Flint on the Flint River for a year and a half to two years
while this new water system was being built and while they put
Flint on the Flint River, the Environmental department just
forgot to add the proper chemicals into the water
chemicals known as corrosion control Inhibitors.
You know the pipes all across the country are between 50 and
100 years old. So older Water Systems you're
supposed to add corrosion control chemicals into the water
system to prevent lead and other contaminants from leaching off
the old pipes, they didn't do that and very quickly after the
switch in 2014. The switch to the Flint River
residents started receiving brown Water, smelly water
residents, including children, started sporting rashes on their
body, losing hair and essentially both the Snyder
Administration and city of Flint officials.
Told him, don't believe your lying skin or hair and told them
your water's fine. And they that went on for 18
months, from April 2014, through October 2015, Flint residents
were receiving Poisoned water with lead, as well as bacteria
and other contaminants in, when did the governor or his staff
first, get an indication. That there was something wrong
with this Flint River water, they were now being forced to
drink Governor Snyder claims that he didn't know about the
lead problem until 2015, there's plenty of reporting out there
that he knew before then and I Broke for the intercept that
although the governor went public to the world about the
legionnaires outbreak in Flint in January 2016, legionnaires is
the deadly waterborne bacteria. That was bred from that water.
He says he didn't know about until January 2016, but my
reporting revealed. He knew about it as early as
October 2014. So 16 months early and he did
not notify residents, he did not notify.
The public and this, what are you first learned about?
It just so happened to be a couple weeks before his
re-election for governor. This was in a time a galaxy far,
far long ago before Trump at that time in 2014 Snyder.
Reporting indicated. He was angling to possibly run
for president in 2016. So he knew about the
legionnaires as early as 20 October 2014, that's what
prosecutors and investigators. The Gators had concluded which
indicates he allowed residents to drink water, that he knew was
unsafe for a year and a half. And the reason is whole thing.
You mentioned this other pipeline.
So I perfectly fine pipeline that gave us clean, drinking
water in, Flint or 50 years. Maybe some banks got involved,
Wells, Fargo, JPMorgan Chase and and decided there was money to
be made by building a second parallel.
Pipeline that just one directly didn't have to pass through the
Detroit Water System. Just go directly from Lake Huron
to the Flint but but there was no need for this it, right?
I mean, this was, this was done, I am guessing or some people to
become wealthier than they already were Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, the reason given was that Detroit's water system,
which Flint was the biggest customer Flint had received, its
water from the Detroit, Water pipeline, City officials and
Genesee. County officials Flint is part
of Genesee County, they claim that Detroit had been raising
the rates to Flint for, you know, ten years and that if they
were to build their own water system separate from Roit then
essentially their water Destiny would be in their own hands and
they could set the rates. However, they would like the
problem with that is Detroit. You know, Detroit really
couldn't afford to lose Flint. As its biggest customer.
So there are emails that indicate at the lab at the, you
know, the 11th Hour Detroit offered Flint to cut its rate in
half, 50% and Flint still left and they were engineering
reports done. That indicated if you compared
Flint remaining with the Detroit, Water System versus
joining this brand-new system that it would actually be
cheaper for Flint to stay on. The Detroit, Water System, yet
the state and city officials went ahead with Flint joining
this brand new water system, which your documentary you
showed the map, it's literally on the same exact parallel path
as the existing water pipeline. So To build a parallel one that
again, the the the reason given was Financial, we're going to
save money by creating our own water system that ended up being
false and also Flint. The difference between the water
that Flint received from Detroit, and this new water
system that Flint was joining Detroit.
Water being delivered to Flint was, was finished water.
It had already been treated by Detroit's water system.
So by the time, it got to Flint, It needed no more no additional
chemicals or anything like that. The water treatment, the the new
water system. The Carroll County Water
Authority. That Flint was going to be
joining. That was raw water.
So by the time it was delivered to Flint, it would then have to
be treated by the Flint water plant, which Michael, you know,
the Flint water plant was basically dilapidated.
It had not been used as a primary water plant to treat
water for decades and at the time, I'm that Flint switched to
the Flint River, it needed, tens of millions of dollars in
upgrades just to put in the right equipment and that had
that was not done right? If you were to walk inside the
plant, water plant, this, this old ancient thing.
It's if you wanted to shoot Zombieland 3, in Flint, you
would use the Flint water plant. That's one of the great
locations for this, but in all seriousness, though, Just to put
a fine point on this when people share Flint Water Crisis.
I now whenever I see something on TV or something in the papers
it's always were lumped in with all the other cities that have
the real legitimate problems with lead and old pipes.
And, and all this stuff. This was not what happened in
Flint. We did not all of a sudden, have
a lead problem or whatever it was a political decision made by
the Republican governor. Order to try to bring taxes down
and then he tells his henchmen and flanked and other cities,
you've got to do X Y and Z to cut costs.
Right? And and so this was a means to
cut costs to run a scam on people while building a second
pipeline that could make the bankers at JPMorgan and Wells
Fargo Rich richer. And so when I just Probably when
they hear this about Flint, we're not.
We're not part of some environmental problem.
This was a fraud that was committed and then when they
found out the damage that they were doing to the human beings
and client that I say human beings.
I'm not black people because that's why how they got away
with this, because they could do this to a majority-black city.
Could not do this to Ann Arbor, could not do this to Bloomfield
Hills or Grosse Pointe, or any of the places in Michigan that
were white and And Wealthy, they could get away with it in this
majority-black city and and these other cities and school
districts that the governor took over and installed his henchman
or also majority-black cities and or school districts.
So I just want to keep reiterating this that that
racism plays an important role in this because they do bye.
Going to get away with what they got away with that the African
Americans of Flint, Michigan. Did not hold any power, they
don't make campaign contributions and, and, and
Snyder. The governor knew that white
Michigan wasn't going to worry too much as long as it wasn't
their water that was involved here, right?
So I also I also want to be clear just to look at the
dollars and cents of it because Governor Snyder, you know, this
is what happens when you kind of run government like a business.
He and his folks, they were just simply looking at the balance
sheet. So in 2014, Flint had an annual
deficit of 12 to 13 million dollars.
Meaning they were losing 12 to 13 million dollars a year.
So what they were paying to the Detroit Water System per month
was a million dollars that over a year equals.
They're basically their entire deficit so Snyder Snyder and his
economic braintrust fashioned if We just get flint off the
Detroit Water System, we would basically erase the deficit and
then we'll just use the river for free.
We just we will just we just forgot.
Oh well it requires millions of dollars in upgrades to the water
plan so they just looked at the dollars and cents.
Hey Flint has 12 million dollars in deficit.
They're paying twelve million dollars a year to Detroit Water,
get rid of that. I could say, hey, I turned Flint
around and help his political Ambitions with that messaging.
And how close is the former Governor to going to jail?
Wish I had good news for you. Michael essentially, the former
Governor and several other defendants that have been
charged are actively trying to get the charges dismissed.
Under a variety of legal Maneuvers and judges have been
hearing those arguments one of the Events that Governor Snyder
and his you know pretty high-powered team of attorneys
have been using is that the prosecution team under Michigan
Attorney? General de nesle did not use
what they call a tank team. I don't want your listeners eyes
to gloss over but a tank team is essentially independent and
independent legal people who go through Discovery and documents
to make sure what the Execution has is not attorney-client
privilege, so Snyder and other defendants claimed that the
Attorney General's prosecutors did not use attain team and
therefore, have attorney-client privileged documents.
That's one thing that is basically delaying even snot
even Snyder from going forward to an actual trial.
Other defendants are claiming that the current prosecutors
Charges after the statute of limitations, which, for many of
these crimes and Michigan is six years.
So, these things are being heard in court in various settings.
And by the way, we should say Snyder.
He was only charged with a misdemeanor.
So if he was convicted, he would face a thousand dollar fine and
potentially a year in jail. Okay.
That's not happening. All right.
So tell us. Us what you have recently
learned and what you reported on in the guardian.
Absolutely. So essentially, you know, the
media story about Flint like you said, was this was kind of just
a horrible accident. Right there was not much
reporting on to follow the money.
So we myself tralala, Duff at a Michigan.
Great reporter. I worked with on this, we
discovered that that brand new water Blind.
That we were talking about that Flint was joining.
Well Flint didn't have the money to join that water pipeline in
the year 2014 it was broke we just discussed how much of money
they were losing every year. So Flint was allowed to borrow
85 million dollars, even though it had no credit rating.
And it was broke legally actually stayed a Michigan law.
Flint had already reached its debt limit.
So the, you know, the sixty-four Thousand Dollar Question, how
does a broke City borrow 85 million dollars to join a
totally unnecessary water system.
So that's what prosecutors and investigators.
That were trying, this trying this in case and investigating
in the early years 2016 through 2018.
This these were the original Flint water investigators when
attorney general Nestle came in she kind of cleaned house and
restarted things. But what we found was the
original investigation team they found Nificant financial fraud
behind that deal, the bond deal. That allowed Flint to join this
new water system, and they were building a racketeering case,
which is known as Rico. If you ever watch Sopranos or,
you know, some of these mob movies, Rico was developed in
the 1970s primarily to go after organized crime, Mafia figures
Jews for other things, too. But that's those with the big
guns that Rico and racketeering staff laws were used.
It against. So they were building a RICO
case to go after State officials who were behind this fraudulent
Bond deal, that allowed Flint to join the, the, this water system
in the first place, and they were advancing it.
I would say, you know, in football terms may be on the 5
to 10, 10, yard line, actually, one of the investigators had
gone, public his name's Andy Arena.
He was fired by attorney, general Nestle, and he said at
the time that he and His, the rest of his team were dismissed.
They were about six months away from chart from filing
additional financial fraud. Charges we learned through this
story that those charges were going to be racketeering Rico
charges over corrupt transactions that were involved
in this Bond deal, potential bribery false pretenses.
Essentially a scam Financial deal that resulted in Flint
joining this new order system and ultimately because Flint
join this New water system, the city being poisoned because to
join this new order system, Flint use the Flint River in the
interim. Yeah.
So there's two separate issues one.
When attorney general Nestle came in, you know, she claims
she recused herself from the criminal investigation, meaning
she wasn't involved and she hired, you know, she appointed
the solicitor general of Michigan and another prosecutor
to co-lead it. Whether she's involved at a day
or not. It's obviously under her
purview. So what we Was they not only
basically, you know, by all intents and purposes buried the
racketeering case. But in addition to the uncharged
meaning, the racketeering case was was going.
Those charges were going to be pressed, but attorney general
Nestle and her team never followed up on it.
In addition to that. They actually dismissed already
filed Financial charges against two of the emergency managers
that were appointed by Governor Snyder.
Are the original prosecution team had charged to emergency
managers? You had you had mentioned the
emergency managers were basically appointed by Governor
Snyder to run, Flint in place of the elected mayor, the elected
city council. Basically Stooges that were
basically running Flint as proxies for the governor.
So, essentially Snyder was running Flint through these
Stooges, two of those. Emergency managers, they were
charged with false pretenses and Conspiracy to commit.
False pretenses for that. Fraudulent Bond deal.
Those charges were filed in 2016 by the original, Flint water
investigation, team attorney, general Nestle, and her team
dropped, those charges in 2019 and they then recharge those
same officials in 2021, but the financial fraud charges were
gone. They recharge them with lesser
crimes, but the financial fraud charges were gone.
So what you have here is Major racketeering case.
That basically just was cut off, you know, dress cut off on the
vine and then you have other Financial charges that were
charged but dismissed by the Attorney General.
Hmm. Why?
Why did a Democrat, why did she do this?
You know, I can't get their head needless to say she has not
answered any of my questions but you know there's a lot of
there's several moving Parts here, number one attorney,
general Nestle Democrat or not, did something very unusual as a
candidate. She was running to be attorney
general and she was publicly, you know, criticizing the
investigation, calling it, politically charged show,
trials. That's on.
Unusual based on lawyers, I spoke with because she had no
access to the evidence. All she knew was what the public
knew. So she was already before, she
became attorney, general previewing that she was going to
clean house and it's, this was taking too long and etcetera,
Etc. So I don't know what was behind
that motivation. There was reporting that you
know, she, you know, wanted her own team.
I've spoken with sources who said she didn't want, you know,
this was a political thing, she didn't The people that the
previous attorney general had put in place to get the credit
they were Republican. So whatever her motivation is.
She got in there, she cleaned house and buy sources.
I've spoken with as well as investigators.
Who went on the record. They said there wasn't even
really much of a debrief between Nestle's team and this team that
had been investigating for three years.
So I don't know if this was simply incompetence, I don't
know if this was simply You know, political thing when new
people come in and think they know better but they basically
cleaned house of the special prosecutor who had been who had
filed those financial fraud charges against top officials
and the Snyder Administration, the chief investigator who used
to be the head of the FBI in Detroit and essentially most of
their team, the other element is if these financial fraud charges
went forward, the state of Michigan would be on the hook.
The potentially hundreds of millions of dollars in liability
because they approved through the Attorney General's office,
they approved the an environmental order that
basically gave Flint the green light to issue these bonds.
So because the state of Michigan had approved it the state of
Michigan. If the financial fraud charges
go forward they're on the hook for hundreds of millions of
dollars. Then you bring in Wall Street,
JP Morgan Wells, Fargo and a third.
Financial institution, they underwrote the bonds, meaning
they financed the pipeline construction deal.
So, JP Morgan and Wells. Fargo sources indicated, they
too were facing similar liability hundreds of millions
of dollars, because as part of the environmental order that
gave Flint the green light to borrow this money.
JP Morgan, Wells, Fargo. They were supposed to do their
due diligence as part of that environmental or To make sure
that the Flint Water Treatment Plant was ready to go.
That the, the equipment upgrades were made and that the Flint
Water Treatment Plant had the wherewithal to safely treat the
Flint River water. Clearly, that didn't happen.
So actually, JP Morgan Wells. Fargo were sued in 2020 on
behalf of 2400. Flint children.
Civilly not criminally for, what, what?
I'm discussing for their basically pushing this Bond
deal. Oh, through without doing their
due diligence. So I can tell you, I can't get
any attorney general's, mind, I can't State as a fact that this
is why they killed the racketeering charges, or this is
why they dropped the financial charges.
But what I do know is there's seems to be a bit of a conflict
here because on one end you have the state of Michigan claiming,
they're going to go after the potential criminals and bring
Justice to Flint. But on the other end, if they
threw the book for financial fraud At Schneider to, I mean
the bill for the state of Michigan they got they got away
with a 600 million dollar settlement.
Civilly, the Flint last year, you talk to most residents my
opinion. That's not, that's not enough
but essentially there was a lot of liability.
It was not a lot of liability here.
Explain why? That's not enough.
Well, essentially a 600 million dollar settlement to the people
of Flint amounts to about a used car for every child in Flint.
You know, little under 10 grand, it is, you know, the children,
obviously. Most of the money is going to
the children, that's great. I got a flint nearly 20 times,
is a lot of adults slowly dying in Flint to, and most of the
money went to Children, obviously.
We don't want to pit between children and adults, but there
should be more money to go around for everybody children.
Not only the physical harm but the mental harm learning
disabilities, behavioral problems, learning delays,
women, who lost babies miscarriages.
So six hundred million dollars for this kind of humanitarian
crime crime against humanity. Humanity to me is a drop in the
bucket. What it should have been.
At the minimum, in my view over a billion dollars.
And again, if you know if Snyder, the part of the reason
that from sources, I spoke with and my own reporting part of the
reason they wanted to get the civil settlement done before
advancing, the criminal charges was because once the Civil
settlements done, that and the bill is done, you can't
retroactively go back and ask for more once all parties have
agreed. So that's why It was so
important for them to get the state to get the civil
settlement done because let's say you come out with heavy-duty
crime, charges after that against the governor or others.
Then the state's liability would have been even higher.
Mmm, When I run into people and they ask, how's it going in
Flint? They think that all the pipes
that have been replaced, that ought.
They know they heard in the news that all this money will send to
Flint undo the damage and explain to them.
Well, there are some of the main line pipes out underneath the
streets that have been replaced, but all the pipes that go from
the main line from the street to the house and then all the
internal Plumbing Systems and everybody's home What's their
appliances? Whether it's a washing machine,
or dishwasher, or whatever. Their shower is all been
corroded and contaminated other. That's replaced.
I don't think people understand they hear, you know, the state
of Michigan. Somebody puts out a piece of
good news, we've replaced all these pipes, while you've been
there, tell people what you've seen.
Well, first of all, it's even worse than that and this got
buried. Partially, if I'm being honest
by Newsweek 2018 myself, my reporting partner.
At the time, Jen dies, we went to Flint because we were being
told by residents that Snyder and his environmental Department
were cooking. The Data.
Meaning they were cheating on the water testing to basically
produce artificially lower lead levels.
So we just did something radical and started knocking on doors.
And we knocked on almost 400 almost 400 doors in the summer
and fall of 2018 and we found that Snyder's environmental
Department. Had been sending officials into
residents homes and collecting samples but running their water
right before taking the sample, not the night before I'm talking
minutes. Or that's completely against EPA
regulations. So, they were cooking the data
by Arctic. You know, if you run the water
for several minutes, you're going to flush out potentially
high levels of lead copper. So that's how they got those
levels and Snyder and his team never denied it.
They play dumb but we were working on that story for
Newsweek for some reason they killed it that week, we broke
it, we just self published it in 2018, it got a lot of Buzz, this
and that but Basically because it got killed by Newsweek, it
was able to be swept under the rug you advance past that the
the testing that has been done. They test very you know, small
number of homes in the city. They are testing, you know, kind
of cherry-picking neighborhoods in many cases testing
neighborhoods that weren't as negatively affected.
So in some cases, they're testing, you know, 50, 60 homes
and declaring the whole city fine.
But any engineer you speak They have not changed all of the
pipes, they have not touched the main pipes underneath the
street. They've only been replacing the
service lines which are the pipes from your curb into your
home. So the main pipes, which, for
years, they've been breaking all over Flint because they were
busted by this toxic water. They are not there.
They're only being replaced when they bust and you mentioned the
interior Plumbing. It's not like the water just you
know, skip Over people's interior Plumbing, that is not
being replaced. In fact, the former mayor Karen
Weaver told me on the record that she went to Governor.
Whitmer, the current governor to ask for help funding to start,
tackling Flint residents interior, plumbing and the
governor. This is what the mayor said,
told her there's Flint fatigue in the state legislature and I
can't get any more money for that.
So essentially, yeah, you've had media really just serviced in
Agra Firs either. Girja tating.
The numbers that Snyder was putting out there or the numbers
that are currently being put out there.
But the numbers that are being put out there, I'm not a
conspiracy theorist but I could tell you having been to Flint
many times including less summer.
There's residents still receiving getting rashes from
that water. I mean, I've spoken with them.
I've seen it. Yeah, there's there's residents
that still are losing hair in the shower and not to mention
the long-term health effects that are not being addressed.
Flint doesn't have Medicare, for all they had Short-term Medicaid
expansion, which is pretty much up.
I've talked to Residents who are near bankruptcy trying to afford
environmental doctors because regular internists aren't the
best for heavy metal poisoning and things like that.
So this is not over and it's still very much whatever the
word you want to call it, I would call it a catastrophe but
it's been normalized and kind of in, you know, mission
accomplished so to speak. Because the numbers that are
being put out, claim to be meeting, he PA regulations.
And it's the fun. It's the Flint Water Crisis.
This is some hey, it sounds. So like, what's the, what's the
word they use for the climate, the climate crisis, right?
We're Beyond crisis. This is a catastrophe, you know,
I just, I want you to come on today in part 2 because I wanted
you to help pull me and people who still live there out of Of
our despair because mayor Weaver said that Lansing has Flint.
Flint OT. Right.
And you know, you know, if this
was again a white City that had some money, you don't talk about
fatigue when you're talking about a white City.
All I don't want to I really don't want to hear about Ann
Arbor anymore. Please.
I have fatigue right? No.
Yeah, you know I think that Obviously Snyder and the
Republican regime, they they carry the weight of the original
sin here. But as, you know, there's a
whole lot of people in Flint really excited when Gretchen
Whitmer was elected, same thing with Dan and Nestle as attorney
general felt. You know, Democrats coming in,
obviously, they were not getting the help that they needed.
They were getting a cover-up under Snyder.
And the Republicans, and one of the things Governor Whitmer had
said during the Governor's debates was that she was going
to reopen the water stations, the free water stations that
Governor Snyder. Had shuttered claiming oh the
numbers are good. Flint's Waters back to normal.
We could shut down these water pods, which residents depended
on for bottled water. That's what you ran on.
She never did that attorney general Nestle, my reporting
indicates. There's just a lot of bizarre
things going on. There's a lot of bizarre things.
In terms of purging the entire investigation, In team that had
investigated this for three years that had already charged
15 state of Michigan and city of Flint officials.
Then dropping all the charges claiming deficiencies in their
their their investigation even though that original
investigation had already resulted in two of the top state
officials, the health department director and the chief medical
executive. They were they were Were a judge
ruled that they both had to go to trial after a year-long
pre-trials. So, the first investigation
couldn't have been that deficient, if a judge had agreed
to of the top officials had to face the music in front of a
jury, and then you have again, what?
I've outlined the dropping of financial charges with no
explanation. Why not following through on the
racketeering charges? Now you have kind of the
governor and top defendants citing deficiencies in The
prosecution, the new at the second, and prosecution under de
nesle. So you just have whatever.
The reason is, whether it's incompetence, whether it's, you
know, there was not enough political will to go for the
follow the money in my story. Eric, Mays, who is blind city
council chairman? He actually says that Nestle.
Let It Go. That's the Attorney General.
She let it go. She said I'm just quoting.
It was it a lack of political or legal will I cannot say, but it
bothers me to this day. Her team hasn't addressed that
speaking about the financial fraud here, and I think that's
what it comes down to. Because for people not from
Flint listening to this as a journalist.
I'm always telling people follow the money, these things don't
happen by accident. There's usually greed involved.
There's usually landowners involved, investors involved
Banks involved, pop politicians involved and the people of
Flint. Nerve to know, what was the root
of this. Because we know the original
narrative what they fed us but who why was Flint on the Flint
River in the first place. Why was Flint joining this new
water system? Who broke the law through
financial fraud. Let's just call it a scam to
Fort to basically, you know, Hoodwink the people of Flint
into joining this new water system, the people of Flint
deserve to know and they deserve those people to be held
accountable. Well, unfortunately, the current
attorney general and her team are not following the money.
I mean, I would love to have egg on my face, Maybe Tomorrow,
they'll announce these discharges.
Who knows, but they're not following the money and the
other problem. And you, and I have talked about
this Michael previous reporting. I did, the Attorney General's,
press its predecessor the original team.
They were building a case against the governor for
involuntary manslaughter to be clear that they were not ready
to charge him with that, but that's the case they were
building. They Felt they had evidence
against him for involuntary manslaughter.
So these are major discrepancies between the original
investigation, who was building, a racketeering case, you know,
gunning for involuntary manslaughter against the
governor, which obviously would be a very seismic event and this
prosecution who did not follow through on any of those things.
So what do people do now? What, how do we not want to
strap how, how do we? Deal with the fact that now that
the Democrats are charged in the state capital, it's a whole lot
more of the same old thing. I mean, you know, this gets just
so depressing to with people, they people give up a certain
people, just decide The whole system is rigged, why bother?
And then that's when the bad guys win, right?
Yeah, I mean as a journalist I've tried my best one of the
problems and, you know, this is your State's media doesn't seem
to have an appetite for this anymore.
I literally have broken four stories in two years based on
Didn't, you know, very strong sourcing documents from the
criminal investigation? The Detroit Free Press won't
touch it. The Flint Journal won't touch
it. When Detroit News won't touch
it. Why that's the most frustrating
part. I go to Flint, and I'm talking
to Residents that don't even know what I broke.
Because they're not seeing it on their TV, and they're not seeing
it in these news outlets. So, number one, you know, if
there's a riff there, if the residents of Flint have any
more, you know, rally in them. I would start circling the
wagons around these The outlets, you know, non-violently
obviously, but because these media Outlets are normalizing
this by burying what's actually going on and burying the truth.
I would not stop there though. Again, these residents are
tired, I speak with them all the time.
They're physically tired. They're mentally exhausted.
They've been fighting for eight years then then you have the
pandemic on top of things. But I mean, I think good
old-fashioned protest outside Governor wit Bear.
Yes. She's a Democrat.
But at this point Democrat, Republican alien, they're not
they're not giving Flint residents Justice, they should
be protesting outside, whitmer's office outside Nestle's office,
not only for justice, but where is their Healthcare?
Use you. And I spoke about this
previously, Libby, Montana is 96% white.
They had an asbestos disaster, that killed a lot of people.
And for Libby Montana snuck into Obamacare was medicare-for-all
for the Six percent white residents of Libby, Montana they
deserved it. Why do, why doesn't the 53
percent black residents of Flint deserve medicare-for-all for
being poisoned wide? And by the way, there's a lot of
poor white people in Flint to. So it's very I think you know to
me we're fighting a lot of battles, climate crisis, you
know, and creeping, creeping authoritarianism, white
supremacy covid. You know, creeping so much
anymore, right? But at the end, End of the day,
the end of the day, not just the people of Flint but the rest of
the country. If you let this go and Flint, if
you don't rally for Flint, if you don't join protest for
Flint, what makes you think this could not happen in your city?
If the people that did this, the Flint are not held accountable
Right. Well, I've believed that, you
know, having lived there for a big chunk of my life that Flint
in the past, has been the canary in the coal mine and I've when I
made my first film, I was trying to really tell the rest of the
country that this isn't just Flint.
This is coming to your hometown and we all better get.
Get busy on it right now. And I remember having a very
hard time making that case, people felt bad for Flint but
they they didn't see that. It would be coming to there.
Their state to their city and then it did and people trying to
just fight and live through the endemic.
It's hard to wrap your head around all the other things
we're fighting for, right? And so to those who are
listening, I, you know, where can they go to be brought up to
date on the latest in Flint. And that silly and to
participate in trying to create some sort of Justice here.
Yes. Oh my Outlets that is cou, cou P
or on YouTube, it's under status quo news.
I probably at this point, I have 200 to 300 videos just on the
Flint, Water Crisis, the cover-up.
I've been on the ground reporting in, Flint nearly 20
times. So definitely subscribe to my
channel. That status cou cou p.
We cover other things, too, but at the time, if you haven't read
this story, please read it. It's in the guardian.
It's at the top of my And yet I would tell people honestly, you
know, at the end of the day, like you just discuss, people
are overwhelmed with multiple fights, but at the end of the
day, this is to me based on my reporting.
This is the biggest government cover-up of this Century.
I think it's bigger than Watergate, Watergate didn't kill
anyone. If there wasn't a president
involved in Watergate, nobody would have blinked twice.
I mean, not that Watergate isn't scandalous but you're talking
about a governor who literally new To his constituents were
drinking contaminated water for a year and a half and said,
nothing and a cover-up of that. You're talking about previous
reporting, I did that Governor's top officials their phones were
erased, their phones were erased messages, deleted shortly before
the launch of the criminal investigation.
You're talking about a governor who's top advisor known around?
Michigan is kind of his henchmen was going around the city of
Flint offering payoffs to sick residents to keep them quiet.
It I mean there are so this is a massive government cover-up in
addition to a humanitarian crisis.
So you would think for journalists they would never
give up on this because it's the story of a lifetime.
But to me, people need to get involved because this is not
just happening in Flint. There are Financial deals
happening all over this country, through the issuing of bonds.
And other measures Mech mechanisms, they're being sold
to you as economic development, you know, urban renewal these
kind of Things. But there's a lot of shortcuts
being taken and there's a lot of quote-unquote public-private
Partnerships happening between the government and private
corporations that are selling you no pun intended down the
river. And if, if this just kind of
becomes normal will will, you know, will recognize it every
April 25th. This April 25th is eight years.
Well, you know some news coverage will have news stories
about Trust all the news stories for major Outlets other water's
fine. Now, it's just about trust.
It's like, they're all in the same meeting.
Pushing the same angle and rebuilding trust among the
residents. Well, I don't think it's just a
trust issue because I was just there and I'm talking to
Residents who are still getting rashes, who are still losing
their hair residents telling me when their shower, it smells
their eyes burn in some cases. So, to me, even though this is
eight years later, you have to kind of trick your mind into
thinking. This, this this is, this is
never. Maybe it's a little better than
2016 but it's still a major disaster and wouldn't you want?
If this was your community, wouldn't you want the rest of
the country, the world, to still care?
To still act? So I really hope not only Flint
residents, but outside, Flint residents, start, flooding the
governor's phones. The Attorney General's phones
showing up for protest. You know, I'm a journalist
you're supposed to just be neutral and be a robot, but I
think you'd be a sociopath if you're just neutral to a city
being poisoned and then a cover-up of these.
People being poisoned and then then left to slowly die.
I don't think you should be neutral to that.
You should want to get to the bottom of it.
Hold people accountable help in any way possible to deliver some
justice. So that's what I've been trying
to do. It's not easy because frankly,
the media Just kind of berries it.
I mean, I know for a fact, the outlets I've outlined know about
the stories. I've broken.
No, the information, some of the editors of you've been responded
to me, but they don't report it and they don't follow up on it.
So yeah, definitely check out our Flint reporting at status.
Go on YouTube. You know, we talked about we're
all worried about the potential death of our democracy.
It's not just about Trump. It's stuff like this where
people lose their faith in their, in their government of by
and for the people and and when they give up, that is the death
of democracy. When Democrats say that,
therefore the people and then they take office.
And then this still goes on. That's the death of democracy
President Obama came to play. In this, this poisoning began
during his last two years in office.
Last three years. And he and he comes there.
We filmed in there. He wanted to put the whole thing
to rest so he faked drank water at a rally here at a high school
and people the water was. Okay?
Why would you tell them? It's okay.
Wouldn't you knew it? Was it okay?
And then people give up. And so I you others were all
we're not giving up. So thank you for the work that
you continue to do Jordan and, you know, if I can speak on
behalf of people in Flint, we're very grateful that you keep
digging keep investigating and that even if the spotlight finds
itself on the Democrats that we don't care, We are going to go
after anybody who is harming people in cities like Glen and
everybody was thing. I'll have links to all these
things. We talked about and phone
numbers to call the Attorney General's office governor's
office email Etc, please. Silence in this case is It's
really, it's really a form of violence in the sense that if
we, who are not suffering, don't say anything, don't do anything
about it, then then we become part of the problem.
So thank you, Jordan and keep up the good work.
Thank you, Michael. Well, that was great talking to
Jordan. And I have a couple other
things. I want to just tell you about
here, but first, I want to acknowledge our final
underwriter today. It's Netflix and it's for the
film, don't look up. I, if you haven't seen this
film, you've got to watch this film.
It's rare that we get such a brilliant satire like this,
don't look up, it's directed by the great comedy Legend.
Adam McKay. Who's brought you everything
from Vice to The Big Short to Talladega Nights.
The legend of Ricky Bobby so much good comedy.
Something we need right now but also a great story in this case
for what were all living through on this planet right now don't
look up is also co-written. The story of it is a good friend
of mine and a friend of the show.
We've had them on before David. Sirota, it has an All-Star cast
of Leonardo DiCaprio Meryl Streep Jennifer.
Lawrence Mark rylands Jonah Hill, Rob Morgan.
Timothy sha'lame Kid Cudi and to many others to count.
Don't look up. Is the story of two scientists
who discovered that a comment is hurdling its way towards Earth.
And what they attempt to do is try to warn everybody on the
planet of this danger with. Well, let's just say mixed
results. You know, not everybody wants to
hear the bad news sometimes though, if that's your attitude,
it is too. All of our detriment.
So few films this year. My friends have tapped the
Zeitgeist and reflect our current moment.
Like, don't look up, don't look up, me paint, a dire portrait,
but it's also hopeful because it puts things in perspective and
lets us know. It's not too late to change
things and the motion picture Academy agrees.
Don't look up, is racked up a whole bunch of Oscar nominations
for Best Picture. Best screenplay, the score.
Our best editing on and on its this is Adam.
McKay is second best picture nomination.
Also use also nominated for vice, the story of Dick Cheney,
and it's his third nomination for screenplay, which he had
been nominated before for vice, and the big short for which he
won the Oscar. So don't miss out on.
Don't look up here during this Oscar season on Netflix or on
any smart device of your choice. Don't look up from Adam McKay.
My many thanks again to Jordan for joining me here.
Again on Rumble and for all of his work covering, this heinous
Injustice toward the people in Flint Michigan.
Please be sure to read his latest piece in the guardian.
I've got a link for it here on my podcast site, and be sure to
check out his on the ground, investigative reporting with his
investigative group called status cou cou p and it's
available on YouTube. Again, one more reminder, before
we go that this Sunday, if you're a paid member of my
Subspace ack, Michael more.com, it's just five bucks a month.
I'm going to have it, I'm going to be having my occasional qa4
paid members. It's this Sunday, February 20th
at 3 p.m. eastern time, so be sure to sign up for it if you
want to be a part of the zoom here, and we'll be sending out a
form on this on a Friday or Saturday here to are paid
subscribers. So if you want to be part of
that Zoom call and even if you don't want to be on screen,
you'll still be able to submit questions via the comments that
are on my Subs there, just as we've done in past Q AIDS.
My thanks to executive producer, bezel, Hamden, our editor and
sound engineer. Nick was our jack-of-all-trades,
Donald Bornstein, and everyone who has helped us put together
this podcast and to all of you for listening to it.
I'm Michael Moore. This is Rumble.
Thanks for tuning in.