1 00:00:16,700 --> 00:00:22,400 This is Rumble with Michael Moore and yes, I am Michael 2 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:40,100 Moore. Today, I'm Rumble. 3 00:00:40,100 --> 00:00:45,400 We're going to be talking about what we must do to succeed next 4 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,400 year in the midterm elections in 2022, and Beyond. 5 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:54,800 And to do that, I've got a great guest, a professor of Law and of 6 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:59,900 history at Yale University. He had a great op-ed this week 7 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,200 and I If you would come on the show and talk about what it is, 8 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,100 the landscape of what we're facing because we were fighting 9 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,200 lots of people on the right. But we're also fighting the the 10 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:14,800 so-called moderate or Centrist Democrats. 11 00:01:16,100 --> 00:01:21,000 And his name is Samuel Moines and he will be my guest here 12 00:01:21,100 --> 00:01:25,400 shortly, the. But before we do that, I have a 13 00:01:25,408 --> 00:01:27,300 big announcement to make something I've been wanting to 14 00:01:27,300 --> 00:01:31,800 do for like 30 years since my first film, I mean, I get asked 15 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,600 about this all the time and I think myself and you got to do 16 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,000 this you when he sees you got to do this because you know people 17 00:01:37,700 --> 00:01:39,800 I keep bugging you and in the end I'm plus I think it's a cool 18 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:45,300 idea and whatever so finally after all these years of not 19 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:50,400 having my own ball caps or t-shirts or whatever to offer 20 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,500 here online and to use it to also help. 21 00:01:53,500 --> 00:01:55,900 Some good causes I have finally done it. 22 00:01:55,900 --> 00:02:01,500 I have pulled the trigger on this and in the last 24, Eight 23 00:02:01,500 --> 00:02:06,000 hours I have opened up what? I'm calling, the more store, the 24 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,699 more store, it's finally launched and it's live in its 25 00:02:09,699 --> 00:02:11,800 online. And all you have to do is go to 26 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:17,400 store dot Michael more.com and I mean I can't say how many times 27 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,500 over these 30 years since my first film I get stopped on the 28 00:02:20,508 --> 00:02:23,100 street or wherever and hey I want to get it. 29 00:02:23,100 --> 00:02:26,400 One of the ball cap for your movie or you know don't you have 30 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,000 like any t-shirts or is it? No, I know. 31 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:31,000 I've never really had time to do. 32 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:32,700 Ooh, that I've been meaning to do it. 33 00:02:32,700 --> 00:02:35,000 I haven't done it and well. Now I've done it. 34 00:02:35,500 --> 00:02:42,100 If the pandemic sitting working at home in lockdown, what can I 35 00:02:42,108 --> 00:02:45,100 do with my time? I know, I can finally open the 36 00:02:45,100 --> 00:02:50,100 more store and sell these hats and t-shirts and coffee mugs and 37 00:02:50,100 --> 00:02:54,800 other cool stuff. And so, we've done it store dot 38 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,600 Michael Morin.com, we've got dog-eat-dog films, hats and 39 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,100 hoodies. We've got Rumble, do it? 40 00:03:01,300 --> 00:03:02,300 Rumble. All over the Billy. 41 00:03:02,300 --> 00:03:05,000 We got Rumble, coffee mugs, we got Rumble t-shirts. 42 00:03:05,500 --> 00:03:08,000 Three different kinds of t-shirts, we have the rumble 43 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,100 ball cap. So if you'd like to get one of 44 00:03:11,108 --> 00:03:14,400 these for yourselves or as a present for the holidays, here, 45 00:03:14,500 --> 00:03:18,300 I'd be happy to provide you with the very very first edition of 46 00:03:18,300 --> 00:03:21,500 all of these things. And a portion of these proceeds 47 00:03:21,500 --> 00:03:26,000 are going to go primarily to help support the progressive 48 00:03:26,100 --> 00:03:28,900 causes and movements that I believe in. 49 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,700 But also to groups that are trying to protect the Arts in 50 00:03:33,700 --> 00:03:38,200 schools to bring back Music. Theater in our public schools, 51 00:03:38,700 --> 00:03:43,100 and also Civics classes, which seem to be disappearing more and 52 00:03:43,100 --> 00:03:45,800 more these days. So, there are groups set up to 53 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,900 help do this. And I will help support that 54 00:03:48,900 --> 00:03:52,300 with the proceeds, from this merchandise. 55 00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:54,700 That's Michael Moore, Rumble, merchandise. 56 00:03:54,700 --> 00:03:58,500 So, now some of you are asking what's a dog-eat-dog hat Doggy? 57 00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:00,100 Dogg is the name of my production company. 58 00:04:00,100 --> 00:04:03,200 We named it though. Somewhere a journey and it's 59 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,800 been the name of our company that we, you know, that we make 60 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:12,200 the film's from for 30 plus years and it's just from the old 61 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,100 saying, you know, it's a dog-eat-dog world, you've heard 62 00:04:14,100 --> 00:04:16,800 that, in this case, meaning you'll see when you see the logo 63 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:21,000 of the two, dogs one's a big, bully corporate type dog, and 64 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,800 the other is a cute little puppy Underdog. 65 00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:26,200 It looks like the bullies getting ready to cause great 66 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,900 harm to the little dog. But if you see the animation of 67 00:04:29,900 --> 00:04:33,000 this, let's just say that. The the big bully or bird dog 68 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,100 does not win. So we just came up with us and 69 00:04:36,500 --> 00:04:40,800 many, many years ago. We made crew hats for the crew 70 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:44,000 back in, you know, in the day, we have these dog-eat-dog hats 71 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:45,800 and we had dog-eat-dog just for ourselves. 72 00:04:46,100 --> 00:04:48,500 And I just said, when we were putting this together here 73 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,800 during the lockdown. What if we, why don't we offer 74 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,300 our crew hoodies in our crew, hats to the public? 75 00:04:56,500 --> 00:04:58,900 I don't think anybody has worked on my movies with mind. 76 00:04:58,900 --> 00:05:03,700 It's kind of, you know, just let some Remembers anybody gets a 77 00:05:03,707 --> 00:05:05,800 ball cap or a hoodie or whatever. 78 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:11,700 They're part of Doggy Dogg films and so, so it'll it, I think on 79 00:05:11,700 --> 00:05:13,700 the hoodie, it says crew, but these are what these we are 80 00:05:13,700 --> 00:05:18,100 crew, hoodies and hats for dog-eat-dog and I really like 81 00:05:18,100 --> 00:05:19,900 it. It's very cool and there'll be a 82 00:05:19,900 --> 00:05:23,400 link to the more start right here in the description of this 83 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:25,900 podcast, on this platform that you're listening to it on. 84 00:05:26,300 --> 00:05:28,900 And if you have anything that you'd like me to offer make 85 00:05:28,900 --> 00:05:32,300 available at the more store semi ideas, I'm open to anything. 86 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,600 Just write me. Send me your ideas at my Kitt, 87 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:38,400 Michael. More.com my Kitt, Michael 88 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,900 more.com, that's how you can always reach me via email. 89 00:05:41,300 --> 00:05:44,900 And there's also a voice mail link on this platform page for 90 00:05:44,900 --> 00:05:47,400 this podcast. Just click on that link there. 91 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:49,500 And you can leave me a one-minute voicemail. 92 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,000 So please feel free to do that. And it's all, you know, either 93 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:58,300 Union made or printed here in the United States, all done in 94 00:05:58,300 --> 00:06:00,600 the u.s. here and delivered to you. 95 00:06:01,300 --> 00:06:05,500 By only Union delivery people at the United States, Postal 96 00:06:05,500 --> 00:06:09,700 Service and UPS. So we try to make this as much a 97 00:06:09,700 --> 00:06:12,500 union support as possible made in America. 98 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,500 So there you go, there it is. Finally 30 years in the making 99 00:06:16,900 --> 00:06:19,800 launched this week. The more store and I think is 100 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,900 this a good time to make the big announcement here. 101 00:06:22,100 --> 00:06:26,600 So in the last week or so, here we have here on Rumble with 102 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:31,700 Michael Moore we have surpassed the 30 millionth down Download 103 00:06:31,700 --> 00:06:35,400 30 million downloads and we're not even two years old. 104 00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:38,900 This this podcast 30 million downloads of Rumble with Michael 105 00:06:38,900 --> 00:06:43,200 Moore and it's so kind of blown our minds to say the least. 106 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,900 So grateful to all of you out there for all of you who 107 00:06:45,900 --> 00:06:49,800 participate in Rumble with Michael Moore and thanks to all 108 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:53,700 my great guests that I've been, if come on the podcast in these 109 00:06:53,900 --> 00:06:58,800 first 22 months, much appreciation to everyone and we 110 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,600 were so happy that we could announce this Finally today that 111 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:06,300 we've hit 30 million downloads of Rumble with Michael Moore 112 00:07:07,100 --> 00:07:11,500 man, real mind-blower much gratitude to everybody in my 113 00:07:11,500 --> 00:07:15,800 thanks here to the crew bezel, Hamden, executive producer, and 114 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,100 iron editor, and sound engineer, Nick, quas. 115 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:22,600 And our, I think that we've made this your official title down 116 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:25,700 here are the Swiss army knife, slashed jack-of-all-trades, 117 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,200 that'll Bornstein. And here are some milk and thank 118 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,000 you for your research and all your help. 119 00:07:31,100 --> 00:07:34,000 Here. So so here we go. 120 00:07:34,300 --> 00:07:36,500 On to the next 30 million downloads. 121 00:07:36,900 --> 00:07:40,600 If you're not signed up on my mailing list, just go to Michael 122 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,200 more.com right there. And it's it's got my weekly 123 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,100 letter. I sent out to my list and you 124 00:07:48,100 --> 00:07:49,700 should be on that list if you're not already. 125 00:07:49,700 --> 00:07:51,800 So just go to Michael Moore.com. Boom. 126 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,600 There you go. And just put your email address 127 00:07:54,600 --> 00:07:58,500 in there when the page comes up and you can become a paid 128 00:07:58,500 --> 00:08:00,200 subscriber, but you can, it's free. 129 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,800 Everything I do, I write or every podcast. 130 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,700 It's all free. So just hit the free button 131 00:08:06,700 --> 00:08:10,000 there and it's all yours. And in fact I want to I want to 132 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,900 thank everybody for their comments on my letter last week, 133 00:08:14,900 --> 00:08:20,300 I turn my weekly letter over to Herb shankman and herb is one of 134 00:08:20,300 --> 00:08:23,000 the leaders of the moderate wing of the democratic party. 135 00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:26,600 So I thought it'd be good just to see what he has to say. 136 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,600 And boy, was it revealing now? A lot of people thought when 137 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:35,000 they read it, That somehow Urban I had become friends and I was 138 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,400 sharing my my weekly, a letter with him but that's that's not 139 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:42,100 the case at all. I've I find this when I make my 140 00:08:42,100 --> 00:08:47,500 documentaries and if I just shut up and just let the opposition 141 00:08:47,500 --> 00:08:51,800 speak, they will reveal more than I could ever get out of 142 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,800 them by, you know, pounding them with questions or sitting on 143 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:59,500 their chest or whatever. So if you get a chance to read 144 00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:07,400 this past Sunday's Letter there, Michael more.com, it's you'll 145 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:12,600 get a good dose of this guy, herb shankman, and and idea what 146 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:18,000 we're all up against, I also will say to people that are not 147 00:09:18,100 --> 00:09:22,400 fans of satire or whatever. Just, you know, give it a chance 148 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,500 here, you know, Monty Python wasn't all wrong, let me just 149 00:09:24,500 --> 00:09:26,400 say that. Okay, I'll leave it at that. 150 00:09:26,800 --> 00:09:33,900 And speaking of herb shankman and all the Other kind of hacks 151 00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:38,700 that we've had to put up with old-school Democrats. 152 00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:41,400 That's what we're going to talk about here on today's show. 153 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,500 We've got this, as I said, this great guest who will be joining 154 00:09:45,500 --> 00:09:48,100 us here professor of Law and history at Yale University, 155 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:51,000 Samuel Moines. But before we do that, I want to 156 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:54,100 put a shout out and a thank you to our Underwriters for 157 00:09:54,300 --> 00:09:57,300 supporting this podcast. So we have a new underwriter. 158 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,600 There we go. That it is what we like the 159 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,000 people who live in this apartment building somehow the 160 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,400 walls are so thin. They hear this podcast first 161 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:14,000 while I'm recording it and and they just weighed in on the fact 162 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,100 that we have this new underwriter and the new 163 00:10:16,100 --> 00:10:20,300 underwriter is stamps.com, we all know stamps.com. 164 00:10:20,300 --> 00:10:24,500 Well, I am so grateful to them for supporting my voice and 165 00:10:24,500 --> 00:10:28,300 supporting this podcast, as you know, stamps.com it's an 166 00:10:28,308 --> 00:10:32,100 approved licensed vendors, Or of the United States Postal 167 00:10:32,100 --> 00:10:34,500 Service. Of course, I've used stamps.com 168 00:10:34,500 --> 00:10:37,700 over the years. It's a way to sort of skip the 169 00:10:37,708 --> 00:10:41,900 hassle of going to the post office and dealing with holiday 170 00:10:41,900 --> 00:10:45,400 shopping traffic and all the other things that they've done 171 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,900 to make the postal experience. So pleasant there at our local 172 00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:52,100 post office. But how why not? 173 00:10:52,100 --> 00:10:56,000 Just save the time and the money and just already have your 174 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:57,900 stamps? Have your own if your own postal 175 00:10:57,900 --> 00:11:01,500 counter right in your own house, You know, especially if you've 176 00:11:01,500 --> 00:11:04,900 got a business, a small business or you maybe send out more mail 177 00:11:04,900 --> 00:11:08,100 and packages. So, she now during the holidays, 178 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,400 well anyways, my crew and I we use this whenever we're making 179 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,400 our movies and we're doing lots of shipping back and forth when 180 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,700 we're out on location stamps.com. 181 00:11:17,700 --> 00:11:21,800 Lets you compare rates print labels and access exclusive 182 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:27,500 discounts both on ups and United States, Postal Service all year 183 00:11:27,500 --> 00:11:30,200 long. You get discounts that you just 184 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:35,400 can't find elsewhere like up to 40% off United States Postal 185 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:40,100 Service rates and Seventy-Six percent off UPS damn and so 186 00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:42,700 they've hooked up with so that so the u.s. 187 00:11:43,100 --> 00:11:47,100 PS is now working together with UPS. 188 00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:51,400 You know what you get with both of those Union, help Union 189 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:56,300 delivery people being paid a decent wage and other benefits 190 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,900 when you are Union, So to save time and money this holiday 191 00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:05,300 season with stamps.com, sign up with the promo code. 192 00:12:05,300 --> 00:12:08,600 More Mo o re don't forget, it's 20's. 193 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:14,400 More4 a special offer that includes a four-week trial, free 194 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,500 postage and a digital scale. By the way, there's no long-term 195 00:12:17,500 --> 00:12:19,200 commitments or contracts, or anything like that. 196 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:24,000 When you sign up with stamps.com using the promo code more, my 197 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:25,600 last name. So just go there. 198 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,200 Go to stamps.com Click the microphone at the top of the 199 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,300 page. And enter the code more Mo. 200 00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:35,700 Re also let me for you, bring out Samuel here. 201 00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:40,800 I want to thank our other long time, underwriter expressvpn for 202 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,800 supporting this podcast, and protecting our privacy using the 203 00:12:44,808 --> 00:12:48,200 internet without expressvpn is just crazy. 204 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:51,300 My friends, we use this, we use a, we making our movies, we have 205 00:12:51,300 --> 00:12:53,700 to have our supper protected. We can't have anybody being able 206 00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:58,000 to hack in or capture any information about what we're 207 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,100 doing. Where we're at all of that. 208 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,600 You can imagine what things would look like for me if I 209 00:13:04,608 --> 00:13:06,700 didn't have something like expressvpn. 210 00:13:06,700 --> 00:13:11,200 So I'm encouraged you to get this every time you log on, you 211 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,700 know, this, if you log onto an unencrypted Network, You're 212 00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:18,100 vulnerable to hackers and God knows what else protect your 213 00:13:18,108 --> 00:13:23,000 work, protect your data, just as we do, and we like it because 214 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,900 it's super secure and easy to use and works on all our 215 00:13:25,900 --> 00:13:31,600 devices, secure your online It today by visiting expressvpn.com 216 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:35,600 / G below. Don't forget the / Rumble, all 217 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,800 right? Because if you put the / Rumble 218 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,500 in there, you get an extra three months for free. 219 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,400 That's expressed expr ESS. Vo P. 220 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:59,600 N.com /. So we're all set here to bring 221 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,200 out our guest on the podcast today. 222 00:14:02,500 --> 00:14:06,300 Let me just set it up by acknowledging that late last 223 00:14:06,300 --> 00:14:10,800 Friday night, the Democrats passed a 1.2 trillion dollar, 224 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,800 physical infrastructure Bill, and this will provide as many of 225 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:19,200 you know, much needed money for roads, and bridges, and 226 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:24,200 railroads, and internet access and some more money to build the 227 00:14:24,300 --> 00:14:26,600 electric car. Charging stations. 228 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,800 Electric school buses. There's a few thousand of those, 229 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:35,100 you know, and some other things, however, they did not Congress 230 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:39,800 did not as promised. Also vote on the build back 231 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,300 better. Human infrastructure, Bill, 232 00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:46,300 build back better. Let's just call Woodbine was 233 00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:49,600 trying to do with a second Bill. The human infrastructure Bill. 234 00:14:50,300 --> 00:14:53,200 And that was going to invest, massive amounts of money into 235 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:58,100 Health Care, Child Care, Elder Care, Medicare expansion and 236 00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:03,000 other Other extremely popular and much needed programs after 237 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:08,400 Nancy, Pelosi and per mil Ajay Bell friend of the show and the 238 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:13,300 progressive caucus Friends of the show, both demanded and 239 00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:16,700 promised that both of these bills would get voted on 240 00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:21,800 together. They all blinked, only the 241 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,800 smaller, physical infrastructure, bill, That has 242 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,300 the backing of corporate America, because, of course, 243 00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:31,700 those corporations. We rely on those roads and 244 00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:34,900 bridges and railroads, and airports that the government 245 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,800 funds so that they can sell their products in run their 246 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:44,100 businesses, only that bill passed and all the leverage that 247 00:15:44,100 --> 00:15:49,300 the progressive caucus, once held to make sure that the build 248 00:15:49,300 --> 00:15:51,600 back better Bill. The human infrastructure bill 249 00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:57,700 would get funded and passed. That Leverage is now evaporated 250 00:15:58,300 --> 00:16:04,300 only six house, Democrats Rasheeda, ALC, Jamal, Bowman 251 00:16:04,900 --> 00:16:08,200 ilhan, Omar khouri, Bush, and Ayana Presley. 252 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:13,000 Stuck to their promise and stuck to their guns, demanding. 253 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:18,100 That the house only vote on both of these bills together and so, 254 00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:22,300 they are obviously taking a lot of crap now from the mainstream 255 00:16:22,300 --> 00:16:26,400 media. And the Democratic party 256 00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:30,800 establishment for bucking their party in sticking to their word 257 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:34,400 and their principals. This all comes in the wake of 258 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,700 last Tuesday's elections where The Usual Suspects are all 259 00:16:37,700 --> 00:16:41,100 calling for the Democratic party to scale back all their big 260 00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:46,300 ideas and moved to the center. This includes chipping away at 261 00:16:46,300 --> 00:16:49,000 Biden's. Build back better Bill and 262 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:54,500 really watering it down now. So that at some point, what's 263 00:16:54,500 --> 00:16:58,000 the point? This, my friends is trouble. 264 00:16:58,900 --> 00:17:03,000 It's big trouble for us for the country for the planet. 265 00:17:03,900 --> 00:17:07,000 So to discuss this problem and figure out what to do. 266 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,099 Now, I am joined today, by Samuel Moines. 267 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,800 Samuel is both a law professor and a history professor at Yale 268 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,200 University. And in the guardian this week, 269 00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:23,000 he has an op-ed saying, quote, if Democrats return to centrism, 270 00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:26,099 they are doomed to lose against Trump. 271 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:32,200 Biden was once touted as the new FD r-- that ambition is fast 272 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,800 dying. As our Democratic hopes of 273 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:39,700 remaining in power Sam, Welcome to our humble. 274 00:17:39,700 --> 00:17:43,400 Thanks for having me, Michael. So let's just jump right into 275 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,000 this. Why did Pelosi See blank. 276 00:17:47,300 --> 00:17:51,100 And why did the progressive caucus blank? 277 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,800 Well, it's very hard to understand because the, if you 278 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,600 think the election mattered, it was already over. 279 00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:02,600 If there were lessons to be drawn, it wasn't necessary to 280 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:09,100 rush into them, you know, if the Democrats have to win in 2022, 281 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,700 there's a time to figure out how to do that. 282 00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:16,100 And so it's very hard to understand why it was necessary. 283 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:21,400 Sorry to separate the two bills, and yet the mainstream of the 284 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:27,300 Democrats, and some progressives decided to do it, and as you say 285 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:32,000 losing leverage, over the bigger ticket build back better. 286 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:36,900 They'll so I think, you know, we have to take a guess one is that 287 00:18:36,900 --> 00:18:40,700 this is what a lot of Democrats wanted to happen. 288 00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:46,000 They're still in the thrall of the old ideologies of austerity, 289 00:18:46,100 --> 00:18:50,900 And, and neoliberalism, and they saw an opportunity to, basically 290 00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:56,900 terrorized some progressives into, you know, the wrong, the 291 00:18:56,900 --> 00:19:02,000 wrong course. And, fortunately six said, no, I 292 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:03,300 don't know how to feel about this. 293 00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:07,900 I mean, obviously, I've had a lot of progressive members of 294 00:19:07,900 --> 00:19:13,500 the House out my podcast here. I know a number of them pretty 295 00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:17,800 well and, and Great admiration for them. 296 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,500 And I guess somehow they think and what I'd like to be proven 297 00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:23,800 wrong here like to just trust their judgment on this. 298 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:25,400 They think it's all going to be okay. 299 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,400 They've got a letter or something, from five of the more 300 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,600 moderate members of the House. Who said that, if the 301 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:35,700 Congressional budget office score shows that this doesn't 302 00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:38,400 wreck the economy, then they'll be there, and they'll vote for 303 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,300 this bill. And we're going to get these, 304 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,400 you know, a limited version. Not the original three point 305 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,000 five trillion, but, you know, 1.75 trillion. 306 00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:48,900 We're going to well have the votes at least in the house? 307 00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:52,300 I still haven't heard that. There's anything from Cinema or 308 00:19:52,300 --> 00:19:56,400 Mansion saying that they are going to vote for this. 309 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:01,600 So what do you think here? What's I'm asking you to be to 310 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,700 predict you're asking the right questions it you know we trust 311 00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:09,700 jayapal. I mean she's she's been the 312 00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:16,300 leader of the progressive caucus and she's presented to This 313 00:20:16,300 --> 00:20:21,600 Arrangement, and she must have a level of trust as you mention 314 00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:27,000 some some of her colleagues gave her a assurances, of course, 315 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:31,400 some like Abigail shamburger refused to do so. 316 00:20:32,500 --> 00:20:37,700 But as you also, you know, say they game for build back better 317 00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:43,300 as much more in the Senate and no assurances from any, anyone 318 00:20:43,300 --> 00:20:50,500 in the house, can can I I think provide a lot of optimism that 319 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:55,800 any, you know, significant version of a social spending 320 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,200 Bill, human infrastructure, as you call it. 321 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,500 What can make it through that other house, the Senate? 322 00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:07,800 So I really hope that you know, the, the the cards have been 323 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,000 played well, but it doesn't look like it to me. 324 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,800 We can think of so many, you know, off ramps for the Centrist 325 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:23,000 one is to, you know, take the pricing that, you know, they've 326 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:27,600 said, is they just have to wait for as an excuse to back out of 327 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:32,400 the deal, you know? But without leverage, they can 328 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:38,800 find any excuse or none to Scuttle the build back better 329 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,900 bill or just reduce it, you know, even by you know, the 330 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:49,400 another Thousand Cuts that it's already suffered and even then 331 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:55,100 the Senate is anyone's guess. So, I'm, I'm it was a very 332 00:21:55,100 --> 00:21:59,200 depressing moment because, you know, you called Trump's 333 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,300 election last time around when no one did, I think? 334 00:22:02,300 --> 00:22:09,400 Now we have to see that if we don't mobilize the state, for 335 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:15,300 those who are stagnating, we will incur their wrath and 336 00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:18,500 rightly. So, And yet the lessons don't 337 00:22:18,500 --> 00:22:23,900 seem to be learned from 2016. Even though for four years, we 338 00:22:23,900 --> 00:22:28,200 insisted that we were on the brink of fascism, right? 339 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,800 So a lot of people came out to vote in 2020 who had not voted 340 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:38,100 in a long time if ever and, and so Biden, got more votes than 341 00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:42,100 any president in our history and beat Trump by over seven million 342 00:22:42,500 --> 00:22:45,900 votes. I've had this feeling that a lot 343 00:22:45,900 --> 00:22:48,600 of them came out because these promises were made. 344 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,100 These really basic promises. I'm not talking about the really 345 00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:54,300 radical stuff. Maybe some people. 346 00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:58,600 I know like me would would be voting for if I were in 347 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,900 Congress. These things are not radical. 348 00:23:02,100 --> 00:23:05,100 That old people should be able to get eyeglasses their teeth 349 00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:13,100 checked a hearing aid or to you know the Pre-K all this stuff. 350 00:23:13,100 --> 00:23:15,900 It's not it's not these are radical ideas, why? 351 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,400 Why are we even having to worry about this? 352 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,800 When the American people have made it clear, they wanted the 353 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,300 Democrats in power, both the White House, the house and the 354 00:23:25,308 --> 00:23:29,600 Senate. Well, you know it is a great 355 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:35,800 question because it's it's it's a minor stuff and in the context 356 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,100 of industrial democracies and in fact, what what has already been 357 00:23:40,100 --> 00:23:45,400 stripped out of build back better which, you know, free 358 00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:48,700 free. College long ago, Family Leave 359 00:23:48,700 --> 00:23:54,000 more recently is also standard, you know, Universal 360 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,900 single-payer, health care what wasn't in it at any point. 361 00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:06,900 And these are so basic to what American citizenship ought to 362 00:24:06,900 --> 00:24:13,100 involve that it's it's no wonder that people are, are, are 363 00:24:13,100 --> 00:24:16,900 disappointed. And, you know, I also have to 364 00:24:16,900 --> 00:24:20,900 add to, you know what you said that while Biden got the most 365 00:24:20,900 --> 00:24:25,500 votes of any presidential candidate in US history, Trump 366 00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:31,200 got the second most because it was just that that, you know, 367 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:38,500 mobilized and electorate. And I'm very worried because it 368 00:24:38,500 --> 00:24:45,900 could be the last chance of the Democrats to kind of offer a 369 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,800 Double package to the working people of the country and it 370 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:57,100 seems like they're missing it and that's sad because they we 371 00:24:57,100 --> 00:25:01,700 were warned for years. That if we missed it again we 372 00:25:01,700 --> 00:25:08,000 really might not have a country. Anything like the one with we've 373 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:13,900 had before and then we were told that Biden was FDR saving us as 374 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,000 Roosevelt did in the third. He's from all the terrible 375 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,300 Alternatives of that era, but then to go minimal. 376 00:25:23,300 --> 00:25:27,000 It just doesn't seem like they could have been telling the 377 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:29,400 truth or been serious before. Hmm. 378 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,400 Why don't they understand that, by not delivering on these 379 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,300 promises? That why people went to the 380 00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:38,500 polls and voted for them that if they don't pass this bill, if 381 00:25:38,508 --> 00:25:39,500 they don't do other things for it. 382 00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:41,800 Now, remember, we're not even talking about voting rights 383 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,300 anymore, if they don't do these things, what makes them think 384 00:25:44,300 --> 00:25:47,600 that people are going to come out next year in and vote for 385 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,200 them. I just, I'm beside myself with 386 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:51,900 this. And I read your op-ed and I 387 00:25:51,908 --> 00:25:56,800 thought Yes, exactly. Why don't the Democrats 388 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,200 understand this? Well II you know not to get 389 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,900 cynical but I think they do understand it. 390 00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:08,900 And the Centrist have made a calculation that they can't lose 391 00:26:08,900 --> 00:26:14,600 the support of the Rich and they recognize that, you know, 392 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,200 wealthier suburbanite. See also went for Biden last 393 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,400 time. And they don't like higher 394 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:28,000 taxes, though. They hate Trump and that the, 395 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:35,200 the Centrist can squeak by And that's that seems to be their 396 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:44,500 bet but it's it's an enormous risk to encourage us to keep the 397 00:26:44,500 --> 00:26:49,200 rich happy. And there's a whole nother part 398 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:54,400 of the electorate that f.d.r. had and that the Democrats had 399 00:26:54,400 --> 00:27:00,600 for a generation that you could get back by abandoning the rich 400 00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:05,700 to their own devices. And, you know, doing something, 401 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,000 you know, for working people finally, right? 402 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:15,100 And I really worry that the bet that the Centrist have made will 403 00:27:15,100 --> 00:27:18,800 blow up in are all all of our faces and and do they know 404 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:24,300 something about us though, us on the left that most of us? 405 00:27:24,300 --> 00:27:27,500 It seems some of us will back down. 406 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,900 Will eventually say, you know what, we just got to get we can 407 00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:33,500 get right now and then and we'll deal with it later. 408 00:27:33,500 --> 00:27:37,300 Like like a lot of people said when ObamaCare was passed which 409 00:27:37,300 --> 00:27:42,200 by the way that was past 12 years ago. 12 years ago. 410 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:42,700 Yeah. Whoo. 411 00:27:42,900 --> 00:27:44,700 We'll work on that. Single-payer thing or some of 412 00:27:44,700 --> 00:27:46,100 this other stuff. Let's just get this. 413 00:27:46,300 --> 00:27:48,800 In past 12 years later, where are we? 414 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,500 Exactly. And I have a hard time 415 00:27:51,500 --> 00:27:59,700 explaining some of those who, you know, trusted Biden or were 416 00:27:59,700 --> 00:28:04,300 willing to you know, stop holding this infrastructure Bill 417 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,100 hostage in order to get the human infrastructure. 418 00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:11,600 And that's where I think we have to get into this. 419 00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:18,400 This narrative that crystallized so quickly around And the, you 420 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,300 know, defeat of Terry McAuliffe in in the Virginia gubernatorial 421 00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:29,400 campaign last week because suddenly the Centrist could say, 422 00:28:29,900 --> 00:28:34,900 you're going too far and that's why we lost your supporting 423 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,400 critical race theory in school. When a lot of Virginians were 424 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,800 just upset that, you know, we would react to the pandemic by 425 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,900 closing schools. For so long. 426 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:58,000 And I, I think that there was a sense after after McAuliffe lost 427 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,500 that there was like an emergency, but it just perplexes 428 00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:05,200 me that the response to the emergency would be to return to 429 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,200 the center, when that's what McCall up stood for his whole 430 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,900 career, as a kind of apparatchiks, of, of the, of 431 00:29:13,900 --> 00:29:19,100 Bill Clinton. And A kind of critic of moving 432 00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:22,500 beyond austerity and neoliberalism for decades. 433 00:29:22,700 --> 00:29:29,600 And yet the response has been to take the that race as a warning. 434 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,700 Not to move left, not to think about a more generous social 435 00:29:33,700 --> 00:29:37,100 contract for for our fellow Americans. 436 00:29:37,100 --> 00:29:40,400 And it's not just Virginia. Look at what a horrible loss in 437 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:46,600 Jersey loss, he won the governor won every election has Winners 438 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:50,300 and losers that I just boy they just went overboard on this 439 00:29:50,300 --> 00:29:52,500 though. Look at the, you know, the 440 00:29:52,500 --> 00:29:56,500 Democrats lost in the this and that and man Boston's got a 441 00:29:56,500 --> 00:29:59,800 great new mayor. I mean, I can I can cite races 442 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,000 all over the country last week that actually turned out quite 443 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,000 well. And and yet they pounding away 444 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,500 and then they brought out the big guns Mark pain. 445 00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:14,000 The you know, the the old-school guy that rang the clintons 446 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,500 campaigns Etc. Sarah the New York Times. 447 00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:22,400 Editorial board came out, chastising progressives and 448 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,000 saying that the Democratic party doesn't get to get more moderate 449 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,200 than we're going to lose. And it's like, this is the great 450 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,400 liberal New York Times. I'm just like, wow, they're 451 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,100 pulling them all. They must be really afraid of 452 00:30:34,100 --> 00:30:38,000 the progressives and of the country which has become 453 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,500 Progressive because again, people listen to rumble. 454 00:30:40,500 --> 00:30:45,000 No, I say these polls all the time that the majority of 455 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,400 Americans take The the the liberal left Progressive 456 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:54,900 position on just about every issue and and supported by wide 457 00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:58,500 margins of 6070. Sometimes, 80% done controls 458 00:30:58,500 --> 00:31:03,000 90%, it's they are misreading the country because they don't 459 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,900 want to lose their power. That's how I look at it. 460 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,100 What do we do about this? Well, I think there's there's 461 00:31:09,100 --> 00:31:13,000 got to be a short-term strategy and a long-term one. 462 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:18,400 I mean because as you know we are We are seeing change and 463 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:23,900 we're seeing more resistance to the military spending and the 464 00:31:23,900 --> 00:31:30,300 endless Wars and Democrats have have begun to internalize and 465 00:31:30,300 --> 00:31:33,900 even some Republicans that you don't just fight a war because 466 00:31:33,900 --> 00:31:38,300 it's there and and on domestic policy. 467 00:31:38,900 --> 00:31:45,400 I think it's it's it's it's it's just you know, terrifying to 468 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:51,300 some of these Centrist that they could be forced into baking in a 469 00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:55,600 kind of new entitlement because they know that once that happens 470 00:31:56,100 --> 00:32:01,100 as with Social Security in the 1930s you can't get rid of it 471 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,800 because people come to expect it as like a basic, right of 472 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,100 citizenship. And so all of these things that 473 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,900 the Democrats began to offer on that the progressive support. 474 00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:18,000 And that as you say, the American people, I want in in by 475 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,800 huge margins. You know, we're coming up to the 476 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:28,000 brink and there's just Terror that they'll actually be forced 477 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:34,000 to give them out and then pay for them through taxation and 478 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:38,200 that's what these old Centrist. You know, have to forbid at all 479 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,200 costs. And so it was amazing that the 480 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:45,000 New York Times wrote this editorial. 481 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:52,500 Handing that Democrats accept a Centrist political reality. 482 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,200 All right. Because what what that meant 483 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,800 was, you know, returning to the center. 484 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:08,800 Not just on one or two issues like critical race Theory or 485 00:33:09,900 --> 00:33:14,800 police abolition but on these economic matters on bread and 486 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:20,000 butter, you know, No popular entitlements to that, you know, 487 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,100 so many Americans not just deserve but say they want and 488 00:33:24,100 --> 00:33:27,700 no, they want. So we've got to run more 489 00:33:27,700 --> 00:33:33,700 Progressive candidates and do it outside cities and begin to 490 00:33:33,700 --> 00:33:39,500 reconstitute From Below. You know, FDR's Coalition which 491 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:48,700 was was so popular for so long and In the short term, I think 492 00:33:48,700 --> 00:33:53,500 it just means keeping the pressure up and supporting our 493 00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:56,200 progressives. You know, if they're, if they're 494 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:01,500 being Cami and Machiavellian and maybe Jaya Paul is doing that, 495 00:34:02,500 --> 00:34:06,600 maybe she's mistaken but definitely supporting those that 496 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,900 won't take no for an answer like AOC and the rest of the squad. 497 00:34:10,900 --> 00:34:15,000 That so heroically said that, if you give up your leverage, you 498 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:22,800 give up the Salt and so I think we've got a, you know, we've got 499 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:28,300 a count on the emergence of a new generation that is beyond 500 00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:33,699 neoliberalism that fears. The you know, the ecological 501 00:34:33,699 --> 00:34:38,400 crisis that is already upon us. That doesn't understand doesn't 502 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:43,000 understand that. Why they're rich have you know 503 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,600 gained ownership of our political system. 504 00:34:46,300 --> 00:34:49,300 And so it's a matter of time. I just hope it's not too late 505 00:34:51,699 --> 00:34:57,600 given where you know the Trump or some other Republican could 506 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,800 take the country and 20-24 when the discussion comes up over 507 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,000 Thanksgiving dinner in a week or so. 508 00:35:05,300 --> 00:35:10,600 And and the more moderate Democrats at the table are 509 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,700 chastising the rest of us for. We may be blowing at you're 510 00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:17,700 blowing this sort of, This is sort of, they've bought the 511 00:35:17,700 --> 00:35:21,200 they've took the soup here and they bought the this kind of 512 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,200 misleading characterization that progressives are going to be the 513 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,800 death of us. And, you know, if you were at 514 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,700 that table and somebody, you know, maybe more conservative 515 00:35:31,700 --> 00:35:35,000 than you, but, you know, still a Democrat would say that to you. 516 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,100 What would your answer be? Well, it's a great question, 517 00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:41,400 Michael, because I will be at that table and it's a good 518 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:42,800 thing. I didn't know that I need, I 519 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,500 need, you know, some of your ideas but what I'll tell you is 520 00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:53,800 that it's unclear how we can return to the policy that caused 521 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:59,800 the situation. To get out of it and yet that's 522 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:04,100 what the Centrist are, you know, insisting, on. 523 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:12,000 And it's, it is, it's just, it's hypocritical that so many of 524 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:18,300 them watching MSNBC, you know, said that we really needed 525 00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:25,700 emergency action and we do because we've gotten a respite 526 00:36:26,100 --> 00:36:30,500 From the far right for four years really to given. 527 00:36:30,500 --> 00:36:33,100 What what's likely to happen in 2022. 528 00:36:33,700 --> 00:36:39,400 And if we don't act, then just as they said, while Trump was 529 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:46,400 President, we may lose the country and and yet then to 530 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:51,900 return to this, to the same, you know, kind of talking points 531 00:36:51,900 --> 00:37:00,500 about inflation and Taxation. And, and frankly, you know, the, 532 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:07,400 the welfare state itself that were so common for so many 533 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,100 years. Alienating the working class 534 00:37:10,700 --> 00:37:17,300 from their old, you know, their old party, then we will deserve 535 00:37:17,300 --> 00:37:21,000 to lose. I don't want that to happen. 536 00:37:22,300 --> 00:37:24,700 I think, I think all of us should just double down right 537 00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:27,000 now. A lot of work to do this year 538 00:37:27,500 --> 00:37:30,800 this coming year and it just trust that the majority of 539 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,800 Americans agree with us. They want help with childcare 540 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:36,300 with taking care of their parents. 541 00:37:37,300 --> 00:37:39,100 They want they want an expanded Medicare. 542 00:37:39,100 --> 00:37:41,200 In fact, they want to for everybody, like you said, the 543 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,600 single parents, not even on the table yet. 544 00:37:44,500 --> 00:37:47,400 All of these things, when you ask the pollsters, ask the 545 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:48,900 American people. Do you want this stuff? 546 00:37:49,300 --> 00:37:51,100 Do you believe women should have the right to control their own 547 00:37:51,100 --> 00:37:54,300 bodies? The vast majority of Americans 548 00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:56,300 are on our side. This is not the Time for us to 549 00:37:56,300 --> 00:37:59,400 give up or to be thinking O Mansion and Cinema, they've 550 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,500 wrecked it for all of us. This is this is we have to get 551 00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:05,300 smart, we have to think differently, you know? 552 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,200 We have to float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. 553 00:38:09,300 --> 00:38:12,800 I mean we just that's how I'm looking at it right now in 554 00:38:13,100 --> 00:38:16,400 Andover upcoming episodes. As we get into the new year, you 555 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,300 know, people I will talk about some of the specifics, but 556 00:38:19,300 --> 00:38:22,500 before you go and I know you have a lecture to give I figured 557 00:38:22,500 --> 00:38:24,800 today, Boston College is that right? 558 00:38:25,300 --> 00:38:27,900 Yeah. And in some day. 559 00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:29,800 So we explain to me the difference between Boston 560 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,400 College and bu and BC Boston University, I just you know, 561 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,700 made a Midwestern. I don't I don't understand why 562 00:38:35,700 --> 00:38:36,500 we need both of them. Em. 563 00:38:36,700 --> 00:38:38,300 And I only understand what they do differently. 564 00:38:38,300 --> 00:38:42,000 But I've been told they're very different so but that's not. 565 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:43,400 That's not my last question here. 566 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,100 My last question is that you have written about and spoken 567 00:38:46,100 --> 00:38:50,300 about and I think teach in your history classes are at Yale 568 00:38:51,500 --> 00:38:56,300 about the Supreme Court and and things that I thought, I knew 569 00:38:56,300 --> 00:38:59,600 that were in the Constitution, aren't there about the Supreme 570 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,600 Court or about the so-called three co-equal, branches of 571 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,600 government, all that stuff, we were taught in school, that Kind 572 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,200 of stuff isn't really quite stated that way in the 573 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,900 Constitution and you've written recently of how we must not 574 00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:16,000 despair that we can't do anything about the Supreme Court 575 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:21,000 that we're stuck with now until you know, dazzles grandchildren 576 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,000 are born. So I'm just what tell us and 577 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,500 just the brief amount of time that we have here, what, what 578 00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:31,100 can be done to fix this awful situation? 579 00:39:31,100 --> 00:39:35,800 So you know, you and I took Civics back in the Cold War and 580 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,200 we were Were told that the Supreme Court is indispensable 581 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:44,800 for justice, but it turns out it's not and it's it's trade 582 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:49,300 beyond the purposes that it should have in the Constitution 583 00:39:49,300 --> 00:39:52,700 gives it which is just to enforce the law that the 584 00:39:52,700 --> 00:39:58,000 legislature makes and to give people a place to you know get 585 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:03,700 protection from the law that the legislature makes and so what we 586 00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:06,200 have to redo it, do is cut it down to size. 587 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:11,200 Eyes and protect our rights as they've mostly been protected 588 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:18,200 through Congress and it's it's not that you know the Supreme 589 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:24,600 Court has never done good things but it was its it was rare and 590 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,700 it's not coming back. It's the most business-friendly 591 00:40:28,700 --> 00:40:33,400 Court in a century and as you say it's no longer protecting 592 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:37,000 African Americans and women especially when it Comes to 593 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:41,400 abortion rights which have already been you know, treated 594 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,600 to death by a Thousand Cuts. And so I think what we have to 595 00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:51,400 do is kind of teach a new civics class to ourselves and our 596 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:58,800 fellow citizens where we say we can't rely on the the court to 597 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,300 save us we have to save ourselves and then let it let 598 00:41:02,300 --> 00:41:07,800 it, you know, have have the roll it ought to have Just, you know, 599 00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:12,000 enforce the law rather than overturn it, you know, Obamacare 600 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:18,700 multiple lawsuits the Supreme Court on in the first of those 601 00:41:18,700 --> 00:41:21,100 lawsuits. As you know, cut out the 602 00:41:21,100 --> 00:41:28,600 Medicaid, expansive expansion, which Congress approved and 603 00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,800 consign some of the poorest Americans blacks in the South 604 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:41,300 mostly to to, you know, No lesser program and so across the 605 00:41:41,300 --> 00:41:46,200 board, I think we're entering a new era when we can revisit what 606 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:51,000 powers, the court ought to have and stop censoring our laws or 607 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:56,800 throwing them out altogether. Is one of the solutions, adding 608 00:41:58,100 --> 00:42:01,000 four more justices to the Supreme Court so that the damage 609 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,900 that prompted to it is at least for now. 610 00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:08,000 I think it here it's worth considering because you know 611 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,500 especially if we think there was skulduggery and Mitch McConnell 612 00:42:11,500 --> 00:42:16,500 is no stranger to skulduggery. But you know, right in the long 613 00:42:16,500 --> 00:42:21,200 term, who's on the court is a separate question from what 614 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:26,900 powers they ought to enjoy. Remember across partisan lines, 615 00:42:26,900 --> 00:42:32,600 these justices including you know the notorious RGB and other 616 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,800 liberals have been very business-friendly you know, 617 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,700 because they're close to the Democratic party and its old 618 00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:44,400 Incarnation and so I think ultimately we need to change the 619 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:49,200 role of the court and changing who's up there on it who gets to 620 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,100 rule from on high is is not the answer. 621 00:42:53,700 --> 00:42:56,200 Well, I know we don't talk about much about the Supreme Court 622 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:58,200 these days because we had so many other things we're dealing 623 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,100 with. We're in the middle of a global 624 00:43:00,100 --> 00:43:05,300 pandemic, but I'll post a couple things here that you've written 625 00:43:05,300 --> 00:43:07,000 and encourage people to read them. 626 00:43:08,100 --> 00:43:12,000 And also your book that's out right now, I'll put a link to 627 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:17,100 that here on our podcast page but I don't want to give up on 628 00:43:17,100 --> 00:43:20,200 this idea that we have to fix the damage. 629 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:23,800 Brutal damage that's been done to the court over the years. 630 00:43:24,100 --> 00:43:27,900 And the long-term thing that you've raised here which is just 631 00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:30,300 the power that the Supreme Court has and getting that 632 00:43:30,300 --> 00:43:33,900 straightened out. It's somewhere in the last 633 00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:36,800 century, we fell into a different way of thinking about 634 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,900 the Supreme Court and I'm sure it's the way that Corporate 635 00:43:38,900 --> 00:43:42,100 America wanted us to think and it benefited them, but that's 636 00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:45,200 that can't continue. So I know everybody's listening 637 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:46,300 on Mike. Not another thing. 638 00:43:46,300 --> 00:43:48,400 I got to think about, yes, I know it's hard. 639 00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:52,100 It's hard but you know what? The people were in the French 640 00:43:52,100 --> 00:43:53,900 Resistance, do that must have been hard. 641 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:58,000 Hard, you know, they didn't get to go to a soccer game at 5:00 642 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,000 in the afternoon. They didn't get to do any, I 643 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,500 mean, this is the way it happens. 644 00:44:01,500 --> 00:44:05,900 This way, history goes, sometimes, it's hard and Sam. 645 00:44:05,900 --> 00:44:09,200 I'm so appreciative that you took the time today to, to come 646 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,100 on and talk about what's happened in the last week and 647 00:44:12,100 --> 00:44:14,900 how we must not give in or give up. 648 00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:18,800 And that always trust and know that we represent the majority 649 00:44:19,100 --> 00:44:21,300 of the people in this country. Well, it's a real privilege to 650 00:44:21,300 --> 00:44:23,900 be with you. Well, thank you very much. 651 00:44:24,100 --> 00:44:27,200 Please come back on and talk to us again and I shall not 652 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,600 despair. Let's talk just close on that. 653 00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:33,300 Thank you so much. Samuel Moines, Our Guest here 654 00:44:33,300 --> 00:44:36,400 law professor history, professor at Yale University and 655 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,500 occasional lecturer at Boston College. 656 00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:43,100 Not Boston University. All right, thanks so much Sam. 657 00:44:43,100 --> 00:44:47,100 All right thanks bye bye. All right people Okay, so that's 658 00:44:47,100 --> 00:44:49,700 it here on Rumble with Michael Moore. 659 00:44:50,100 --> 00:44:51,800 I want to thank my guests, Samuel Moines. 660 00:44:52,100 --> 00:44:56,200 And I really want to thank the 30 million of you out there who 661 00:44:56,200 --> 00:45:03,100 have downloaded episodes of this podcast over its first 20 21, 22 662 00:45:03,100 --> 00:45:06,600 months, much appreciated. And please share it with your 663 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,500 family and friends. And please know that I have 664 00:45:08,500 --> 00:45:13,300 extreme gratitude for you joining with me in this podcast. 665 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,800 Thanks also to See who in the first day or two, here have 666 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:22,800 gotten your ball caps and t-shirts and hoodies and coffee 667 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,000 mugs and stickers, and everything else. 668 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,200 We got at the more store. It's very cool to watch this 669 00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:34,800 happen and we will be able to provide some good funds to the 670 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,300 different groups that I support Progressive groups and 671 00:45:37,300 --> 00:45:42,100 movements, and also those who are fighting to get our music 672 00:45:42,100 --> 00:45:45,900 and Theater Arts classes, back in our public schools, and 673 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:50,700 Civics classes. This is a just a big man, big 674 00:45:50,700 --> 00:45:52,500 thing. That's bugging me for a number 675 00:45:52,500 --> 00:45:56,100 of years now, and we can't let this happen to the Next 676 00:45:56,100 --> 00:45:59,000 Generation. So thanks everybody for tuning 677 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:00,700 in. Thanks to basil and Dick, and 678 00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,900 Donald and Harrison for helping me out here. 679 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,400 And I will see you again next week here on Rumble. 680 00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:09,800 In the meantime, join me on my sub. 681 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,100 Stacked column letter my weekly letter. 682 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,800 Just go to Michael more.com for that Joy. 683 00:46:15,900 --> 00:46:20,500 Amy, I'm Michael more.com and my new letter will be up this 684 00:46:20,500 --> 00:46:22,000 weekend. Okay. 685 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:27,100 Be safe. Be well, do good work and thanks 686 00:46:27,100 --> 00:46:30,500 for being part of this. This is Michael Moore in this is 687 00:46:30,500 --> 00:46:30,900 Rumble.