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for girls in the Bay Area, snake
All the girls in the bedroom. 

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All girls with a sharpened back.
all girls with a wild Shan all 

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those on the tail. 
All of those things. 

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All girls sitting on. 
One my one flying to fight. 

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Be careful how you been. 
Be careful. 

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Careful. 
That's Patty Griffin with her. 

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On be careful and I'm Michael 
Moore. 

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This is Rumble. 
Said my podcast. 

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Thank you for listening today. 
As I'm recording this. 

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Actually, I noticed on the 
calendar. 

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This is the 75th anniversary of 
the day at Major League, 

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Baseball allowed, Jackie 
Robinson to play the game. 75 

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years ago today. 
There were no black, baseball 

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players in the major leagues. 
There are no black players in 

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the NFL. 
The MBA hockey, of course, golf 

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tennis, and his car, whatever. 
And there were no women. 

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There were no major leagues of 
women or women who played 

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sports. 
But this was a white man's game 

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because it was a white man's 
world. 

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And nobody saw anything wrong 
with that. 

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Well, I shouldn't say nobody. 
I think a lot of women saw 

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something wrong with it and I 
think people of color saw a lot 

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of things wrong with that. 
And then finally, a few white 

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people who I guess had a 
conscience or maybe it was just 

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they decided, you know, we're 
missing out on some money. 

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Are folks only playing white 
people and appealing to white 

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people. 
There are other people in this 

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country and there's money to be 
made, but whatever the reason in

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certainly, in the case of the 
owner of the Brooklyn Dodgers, 

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they decided enough was enough. 
And if you've read anything 

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about that era and this 
particular day this is like I 

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don't know maybe seven or eight 
years before I was born but I 

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only say that to point out that 
I as a child and growing up 

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these attitudes just just didn't
go away. 

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People did not like watching 
white people I mean watching 

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black people playing their 
Sports. and it took some time 

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for that bigotry to die down. 
A lot of it. 

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Never went away, of course, 
because here we are, here we are

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in the 75th anniversary of 
Jackie Robinson and we have a 

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growing movement of white 
supremacist. 

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We have all kinds of crap. 
whether it's the fact that the 

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Voting Rights Act was abandoned,
the one that was enacted in 1965

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voter suppression. 
gerrymandering all the stuff 

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that still goes on to keep the 
black woman and man down to this

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day. 
You've seen it on the news in 

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the last week or two, they're 
getting ready for the midterms 

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in November and they want as few
black people to vote as 

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possible. 
I mean, it's just amazing and it

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gives it is an amazing. 75 years
later. 

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We're still having to deal with 
this crap. 

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Not so much that everything 
Americans playing in the Major 

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League Sports, but look how long
it took just to get a WNBA for 

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the women could have their own 
leagues and audiences and 

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whatever. 
It's a whole bunch of things 

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that are going on right now. 
Things were able to deal with 

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and we've got the November 
elections coming up and there 

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are so much energy and money 
being spent. 

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And on the other side to make 
sure that the voices of those 

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who are not white men are 
suppressed. 

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And so that means that the 
majority, the actual majority of

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us that being women, the 
majority gender people of color,

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some white guys, and a lot of 
young people you put all that 

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together. 
That's the majority. 

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So, will we rule will the 
majority rule will we get the 

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Senate, the way we need it. 
This November will? 

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We lose the house? 
Could that actually happen? 

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You know, I've been fairly 
optimistic about this but with 

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the caveat that we will all get 
involved, we will all 

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participate. 
And we will not let the 

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supremacist in the misogynist. 
Run this country. 

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And we have to be bold and brave
and active to make sure that 

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happens because they will not 
happen on its own. 

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I mean it just look at this last
week. 

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What has happened on the issue 
of abortion? 

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Texas sign their law Kentucky. 
Oklahoma. 

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There are three or four states 
just this week. 

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That essentially, with the way, 
the law is written eliminated, a

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woman's right to choose what to 
do with her reproductive organs,

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what to do with her body, 
they're all getting ready. 

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They're all gearing up for 
something that's going to 

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happen. 
And possibly as soon as six to 

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nine weeks, possibly the Supreme
Court is going to rule I think 

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we all have a good idea of 
what's going to happen and then 

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what are we going to do about 
it? 

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We're not going to Peach Trump's
people off the Supreme Court in 

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the next couple of months. 
I mean they would do that to us 

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but that's not our style you 
know. 

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So so we we have something that 
we really need to be concerned 

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about because what they're 
planning the coup essentially 

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that they're planning. 
It's not gonna be going to be 

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the coup that they tried to pull
off on January 6 of 2020. 

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This is through the way that 
they are hoping to rigged 

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elections, count, the elections,
etc, etc. 

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To do all the things they 
accused Democrats and Biden of 

95
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doing. 
Every time they do that, they're

96
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just signaling what they're 
going to do, or what they're 

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going to try to do. 
And so we need to really be 

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thinking about what are we going
to do about this? 

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What are we going to do? 
It won't be easy. 

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Whatever it is. 
But I want to talk about this 

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today. 
I have a special guest coming on

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here in a few minutes. 
She's written a great book, 

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entitled policing, the womb 
invisible women, in the 

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criminalization of motherhood. 
It's very powerful. 

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00:07:44,900 --> 00:07:46,900
Her name is dr. 
Michelle Goodwin. 

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00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:51,100
She's an award-winning author 
law professor out at the UC 

107
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Irvine. 
She's an executive committee 

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member of the national ACLU, 
American civil liberties Union. 

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She was awarded the 1022 
Margaret Brent award from the 

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00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,100
American Bar Association this 
award. 

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00:08:04,100 --> 00:08:07,200
If you don't know what it is, 
it's given to those who carry 

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00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,200
forward the legacy of Margaret, 
Brent, and it was Margaret 

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00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:16,000
Brent, the first female lawyer 
in the United States of America 

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00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,100
and she has been a tireless 
Advocate and activist for 

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Reproductive Justice. 
And she's going to be my guest 

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00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:27,200
today here on Rumble, and we're 
going to have an important 

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discussion about what to do. 
So dr. 

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Goodwin will be here with us, 
but before we speak to her first

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off a huge, thank you to wonder 
IAM. 

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They are now supporting this 
podcast and supporting my voice.

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00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,400
And what I like about one 
dhyryam is if you knew me 

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00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,100
personally, I've I've never stop
learning and I think a lot of 

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00:08:49,100 --> 00:08:53,000
you are the same way to, right? 
We're curious people we like to 

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00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,200
ask questions. 
We're critical thinkers and 

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00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,500
wondering, is this new thing 
that I I love it's a 

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00:08:59,500 --> 00:09:03,600
subscription video service that 
supports life long Learners like

127
00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:05,000
you. 
And I wonder if he has 

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00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:08,500
everything from tutorials to 
documentaries, it's got courses 

129
00:09:08,500 --> 00:09:13,100
on hundreds of topics and I mean
just the scope of the subjects 

130
00:09:13,100 --> 00:09:15,700
if you go on their site and see 
what they have, whatever subject

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00:09:15,700 --> 00:09:18,400
that you've been curious about 
all, here's an example. 

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00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,500
Actually, I just thought of this
a couple weeks ago, one of my 

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favorite all-time bullets 
Lawrence ferlinghetti, is one of

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00:09:24,900 --> 00:09:27,800
the beat poets he would have 
been 102 this month. 

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00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,600
And so I started thinking About 
him and I'm wondering like, 

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00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:35,300
literally that day or the day 
after a pop documentary called 

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00:09:35,300 --> 00:09:38,400
The Source. 
The story of the beets, it's 

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00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,500
like, wow. 
And this documentary wove 

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00:09:40,500 --> 00:09:44,200
together, a lot of great 
archival footage of the great 

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00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,000
beat poets. 
I'm talking about, you know, 

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00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:49,900
Allen, Ginsberg Jack, Kerouac 
and Burroughs actually seeing 

142
00:09:49,900 --> 00:09:52,200
these beat poets. 
You might have heard about, but 

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00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,700
you've never seen them read 
their poetry, and I got to see 

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00:09:54,700 --> 00:09:56,800
that I'm wondering. 
So, trust me. 

145
00:09:57,300 --> 00:10:00,400
I know that you will love this. 
I know you loved one dream as 

146
00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:01,900
much as I do. 
I want you to sign up. 

147
00:10:01,900 --> 00:10:05,100
Now, through my special URL, 
it'll be on my platform age. 

148
00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:07,800
I'll give it to you right now, 
and you can start a free trial. 

149
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:12,500
It's such a rich reservoir of so
much knowledge and information 

150
00:10:12,500 --> 00:10:14,000
do this. 
Now, you go to one. 

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00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,500
Dream.com Rumble, easy, right? 
Wonder You. 

152
00:10:17,500 --> 00:10:26,000
Misspelled w0n dri, um, Wonder 
IAM.com / G below our, um, ble. 

153
00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,300
So don't wait. 
Get your And today my friends 

154
00:10:30,300 --> 00:10:37,700
with one dream wo ND, R IU, 
m.com / Rumble, thank you very 

155
00:10:37,700 --> 00:10:39,500
much. 
Wondering for supporting my 

156
00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:42,900
voice here, and one other 
underrated we have for today and

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00:10:42,900 --> 00:10:45,800
again, we've had them before and
I want to thank them again for 

158
00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:49,700
supporting us. 
They're called moink Mo iink 

159
00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,400
oink just think wink with an m 
in front of it boink. 

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00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:55,800
And what is more ink? 
Well, this is what I wrote up 

161
00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,800
this, my gut feeling about this,
we all know that. 

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Big agriculture is one of the 
leading sources of pollution on 

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this planet, right? 
We all know this down and given 

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00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,500
the choice for those who do eat 
meat. 

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00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:12,500
We'd all choose to probably help
support the small Family Farms, 

166
00:11:12,500 --> 00:11:13,900
right? 
Who are fighting to survive 

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00:11:13,900 --> 00:11:16,200
against the Behemoth, that is 
big agriculture. 

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00:11:16,500 --> 00:11:19,600
But the truth is, when you go to
the grocery store you don't 

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00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:24,300
always have that choice moink 
gives you back your power to 

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00:11:24,300 --> 00:11:27,800
choose for yourself and for your
family, both the quality, and 

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00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,000
the source. 
Your food. 

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00:11:30,300 --> 00:11:33,600
It's essentially a meat 
subscription service that will 

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00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,900
deliver meat, you know, and in 
whatever you like, but it's 

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00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:40,500
going to be grass-fed and 
grass-finished. 

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00:11:40,500 --> 00:11:43,800
It's beef, lamb. 
Pork chicken raised in pastures 

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00:11:43,900 --> 00:11:46,500
and sustainable. 
They even have wild-caught 

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00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:49,800
Alaskan salmon, and they can 
deliver all this direct to your 

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00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:51,200
door. 
All of it. 

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00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:55,200
Sourced from Family Farms and 
the best part, when you order 

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00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,500
from link, you will know that 
the animals were raised in the 

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outdoors. 
Ears on grass. 

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00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,300
No growth hormones, no 
antibiotics, no confinement to 

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00:12:04,300 --> 00:12:08,800
cages and buildings, and sketchy
growing practices in the fish 

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00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:14,700
actually swim wild in the sea. 
So, stop giving any more of your

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00:12:14,700 --> 00:12:17,300
money to the big guys. 
And I'm talking, I know some of 

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00:12:17,300 --> 00:12:19,800
you don't eat, meat, whatever 
but I'm talking to, let's face 

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00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:21,200
it. 
The vast majority of people 

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00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:25,300
still do and I think most of the
people listen to this podcast 

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00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:28,200
would be glad to know that 
they're not giving their money 

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00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,900
to these wealthy. 
Farming corporations and to 

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00:12:30,908 --> 00:12:33,400
people who don't give a damn 
about any of this stuff. 

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00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,700
Let's keep American Family. 
Farming going by signing up at 

193
00:12:36,700 --> 00:12:41,900
white box, boink, box.com /, 
Rumble and right now, listen to 

194
00:12:41,900 --> 00:12:43,900
the show. 
Also, will get a free filet 

195
00:12:43,900 --> 00:12:48,700
mignon in every order for a 
year, one year of the best filet

196
00:12:48,700 --> 00:12:51,900
mignon that you'll ever taste, 
but it's only for a limited time

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00:12:51,900 --> 00:12:58,300
so it's spelled again, mo. 
I NK moink box.com Rumble. 

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00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,700
That's moink box.com / Rumble. 
Thank you more ink for 

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00:13:03,700 --> 00:13:05,100
supporting me. 
Hear it. 

200
00:13:05,100 --> 00:13:08,100
Rumble and for helping my voice 
to be heard 

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00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:26,500
and we are back So dr. 
Michelle bratcher Goodwin holds 

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the Chancellor's professorship 
at the University of California,

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00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:32,400
Irvine. 
And is the founder and director 

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of the center for biotechnology 
and Global Health policy and its

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reproductive Justice initiative.
She is also the award-winning 

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00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:46,500
author published in the New York
Times, LA Times Politico, 

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00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:50,600
incredible op-eds and essays. 
And writings in her most recent 

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00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:55,200
book is policing. 
The womb invisible women, in the

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00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:59,600
criminalization of motherhood. 
When you read this book, there 

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00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,000
are many books written about 
subjects and issues regarding 

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00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:04,400
what we're talking about here 
today. 

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00:14:04,500 --> 00:14:08,100
But this is I think one of the 
most profound things I've read 

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00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,200
in many, many years and I 
encourage everyone to read it. 

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00:14:11,700 --> 00:14:15,800
Dr. Goodwin is also the host of 
her own podcast for Ms, magazine

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00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,500
on the issues with Michelle 
Goodwin. 

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00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,900
Before we begin with dr. 
Goodwin, I just want to read you

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00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:25,000
just a A little piece here from 
an essay that she wrote for the 

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00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,000
New York Times back around the 
Thanksgiving weekend here. 

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This past November open up the 
times and this was the headline 

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00:14:34,500 --> 00:14:40,200
of the essay by dr. 
Goodwin I was raped by my father

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in abortion. 
Saved my life. 

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And it was hard to get through 
at the time and it was hard, 

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00:14:50,500 --> 00:14:53,600
even earlier today as I was 
prepping for this podcast to 

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00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,900
read it again. 
Here's a portion of this is dr. 

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Goodwin speaking. 
It was the early morning of my 

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10th birthday the first time 
that I was raped by my father. 

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It would not be the last The 
shock was so severe that I 

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temporarily went blind before. 
I began the fifth grade a few 

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weeks later. 
By the time, the school year 

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began, my father had taken me to
see a battery of doctors and a 

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00:15:24,700 --> 00:15:28,200
medical explanation by these 
doctors would paper over. 

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The fact that the trauma caused 
by his sexual violence, had 

233
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caused my body to shut down. 
The physiological suffering that

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00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:41,600
I endured included severe 
migraines, hair loss, even gray 

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hair at 10 years old. 
While other girls may have 

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longed for puberty. 
I loathed the idea of it. 

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My body became a vessel that was
not mine. 

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It had been taken from me, I 
lived in fear of the night and 

239
00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,600
the footsteps, outside my 
bedroom door, Dr. Goodman goes 

240
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:06,300
on to explain out her closet, 
became her Sanctuary to hide, 

241
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:10,800
and unless you think that her 
father was just some 

242
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,200
ne'er-do-well drunk, whatever, 
taking advantage of his 

243
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:15,600
daughter. 
She goes on in the next 

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00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:19,600
paragraph to State, my father's 
predations were hidden behind 

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00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:22,500
wealth, social status and his 
acting. 

246
00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:26,800
The part of a committed, an 
attentive parent I attended 

247
00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:30,900
Elite schools in New York City, 
I studied ballet at a. 

248
00:16:30,900 --> 00:16:35,200
Renowned Academy took private 
violin and tennis lessons. 

249
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,200
My father, never missed a 
parent-teacher conference. 

250
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,300
However, that veneer of normalcy
belied intimate, Family 

251
00:16:44,300 --> 00:16:47,900
Violence, it began years before 
with this physical abuse of my 

252
00:16:47,900 --> 00:16:51,900
mother at times, he was so 
violent that she was 

253
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hospitalized. 
And at age 12, I was pregnant by

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him and I had an abortion. 
And he was able, then I'm just 

255
00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:05,300
going to just skip ahead here to
convince the doctor that this 12

256
00:17:05,300 --> 00:17:09,400
year old gotten pregnant by her 
being fast and loose with a 

257
00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:13,599
reckless boyfriend. 
The doctor just just bought it. 

258
00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:17,500
And so she's sitting there she 
explains with these two men 

259
00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:22,200
looking at her in this shameful 
way, and years later thinking 

260
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,700
back upon that, she talks about,
not just that moment but what it

261
00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:30,400
grew to mean to her as she was a
teenager and then I became an 

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00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,600
adult. 
I'm really honored to have with 

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00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,400
us here today on Rumble dr. 
Michelle good one, dr. 

264
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,500
Goodwin, thank you so much for 
being part of this. 

265
00:17:40,700 --> 00:17:44,300
Thank you for writing that essay
and thank you for writing this 

266
00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:48,000
book policing. 
The womb is the nonfiction 

267
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,000
version in some sense of 
handmaid's tale. 

268
00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:54,400
Thank you for what you've done, 
and thank you for being here. 

269
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,500
Thank you very much for lifting 
up these important issues and 

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00:17:58,500 --> 00:18:03,100
bringing them to your audience. 
Well, Well, we have to because I

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00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:09,900
get the sense that we are just 
months weeks away from our new 

272
00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:14,700
Supreme Court 1/3 appointed by 
Donald Trump of declaring that 

273
00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:18,000
the government is going to say 
what women can do with their 

274
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,900
reproductive, organs, with their
bodies and that row v Wade, the 

275
00:18:21,900 --> 00:18:24,600
Supreme Court case that 
essentially made it legal for 

276
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,500
women to be able to choose 
whether or not they want to have

277
00:18:27,500 --> 00:18:31,200
a baby that that is possibly 
going to be overturned. 

278
00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:34,900
Or restructured in some other 
way, to the point where women 

279
00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:37,600
are going to lose this, right? 
Do I have that right? 

280
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,000
Or am I? 
No, I just think you're right. 

281
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:44,600
And that so the case before the 
United States Supreme Court 

282
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:49,900
comes out of Mississippi, it's 
the Dobbs case and it's a case 

283
00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:54,000
that involves a 15 week. 
Abortion ban that provides no 

284
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:57,300
exceptions for cases of rape or 
incest. 

285
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:02,800
This is a modern feature of the 
anti Abortion campaigning 

286
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,200
something that we wouldn't have 
seen a decade ago. 

287
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,000
We wouldn't have seen five years
ago, we wouldn't have seen pre 

288
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,800
Trump. 
Now the state with this new 

289
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:16,500
composition on the Supreme Court
has fought not only its 15 week 

290
00:19:16,500 --> 00:19:19,500
abortion ban because of the 
current composition of the 

291
00:19:19,500 --> 00:19:21,400
Court. 
It is ask the court to do away 

292
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:26,100
with Roe v-- Wade all together. 
Is that going to happen. 

293
00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:31,600
Many people are saying that we 
should prepare for that to 

294
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:37,800
happen because the Supreme Court
has a very vocal majority that 

295
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,900
has articulated both in terms of
personal leanings. 

296
00:19:41,900 --> 00:19:48,200
And also prior adjudication that
they have no sympathy towards 

297
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:52,800
Roe v-- Wade or Reproductive 
Rights generally and Chief 

298
00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,600
Justice, John Roberts who very 
recently. 

299
00:19:54,700 --> 00:19:57,800
Bentley has been siding with 
liberals on the court, his vote 

300
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:03,100
no longer matters to that five 
Justice majority that has shown 

301
00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:07,200
a lack of regard for Roe v-- 
Wade Planned Parenthood V Casey 

302
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,400
and the various laws that have 
protected Reproductive Rights. 

303
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:15,300
Is there a chance that one of 
those five will have an epiphany

304
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,700
before June? 
And the court won't get rid of 

305
00:20:18,700 --> 00:20:21,900
Roe v-- Wade? 
This is a really good question. 

306
00:20:21,900 --> 00:20:26,300
So over time there are those of 
us who've said that it's been a 

307
00:20:26,300 --> 00:20:31,500
death by a thousand strikes. 
This kind of movement that we 

308
00:20:31,500 --> 00:20:37,300
saw speed up come 2010. 
So between 2010 and 2013, there 

309
00:20:37,300 --> 00:20:41,200
were more anti-abortion anti 
contraception laws that were 

310
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,100
proposed and enacted than the 30
years prior combined. 

311
00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:47,900
And the important point to note 
there is that this was with the 

312
00:20:47,900 --> 00:20:51,600
rise of the Tea Party. 
And it's important to understand

313
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:56,300
that this movement is not only 
one that seeks to trample and 

314
00:20:56,300 --> 00:21:00,300
seeks to get rid of, if you will
Reproductive Rights. 

315
00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:03,700
But this is a movement that is 
also behind voter suppression 

316
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,600
gerrymandering all of that. 
It's all a part of a narrative 

317
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:13,600
of a kind of America of Jim Crow
and America, that was, you know,

318
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,400
pre 13th Amendment as is what 
these people have the taste for 

319
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:22,700
and to put that in context, Roe 
v-- Wade. 1973 opinion and it 

320
00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:27,300
was 72 to the votes. 
In that case, five of those 

321
00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:32,000
seven justices were Republican 
appointed, wasn't the opinion, 

322
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,000
the actual opinions of written, 
by one of the Republican 

323
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,100
appointed. 
That's right, you're absolutely 

324
00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:39,800
right. 
Michael by Justice blackmun who 

325
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,000
was put on the court by Richard 
Nixon, right? 

326
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:47,900
The father of George h.w. 
Bush Prescott Bush was the 

327
00:21:47,900 --> 00:21:50,800
treasurer of planned. 
A hood. 

328
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:57,400
So what we see these days that 
parades itself as Republican, 

329
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,400
it's important to note that it 
is not the kind of traditional 

330
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,300
Republican values. 
This is more of a kind of tea 

331
00:22:04,300 --> 00:22:08,800
party mix with even jealous ISM.
That is not part of the 

332
00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:13,800
Republican tradition. 
That at least was the 1950s 60s,

333
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:20,000
70s, 80s, 90s, and 2000's. 
But as part of this very me, 

334
00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:24,800
Spirit at wave that we've seen, 
which is not too distant from 

335
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,100
seeing children being locked in 
cages and having the federal 

336
00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:30,600
government argue against 
providing them soap and 

337
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,800
toothpaste for the people who 
are listening to this, what can 

338
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,000
they do? 
What can we all do between now? 

339
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,100
And let's say when they release 
their judgment here in June, 

340
00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:44,100
maybe July, maybe May, it's not 
far off here. 

341
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:45,700
No. 
And I think, you know, there's 

342
00:22:45,700 --> 00:22:48,400
so much going on in the world 
obviously with the pandemic that

343
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,000
we're still in the middle of the
war. 

344
00:22:50,100 --> 00:22:53,400
In Ukraine, so many things. 
And I think that there's a lack 

345
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,900
of focus amongst people that 
maybe we should be talking about

346
00:22:55,900 --> 00:22:58,900
this more and maybe we should 
get ready and what if anything 

347
00:22:58,900 --> 00:23:03,200
can we do to encourage the court
to do the right thing? 

348
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,700
So there are no more things to 
do right. 

349
00:23:05,700 --> 00:23:10,300
Now, one happens to be 
supporting funds abortion funds 

350
00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:14,900
that help people to be able to 
have the means to go out of 

351
00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:18,400
state and get the health care 
services that they need because 

352
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,300
it's important that people. 
Are that there are people who 

353
00:23:22,300 --> 00:23:26,900
need abortions to save their 
lives, to manage miscarriages. 

354
00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:29,900
And of course, to remember that 
it is a constitutionally 

355
00:23:29,900 --> 00:23:32,800
protected, right? 
It's important at the state 

356
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,800
level to contact state, 
legislators in states, where 

357
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,200
there are trigger laws that may 
go into effect such that if the 

358
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,500
Supreme Court upholds, the 
Mississippi Law, then there are 

359
00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:47,600
over two dozen states that have 
ready to go similar laws and 

360
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:49,500
it's important that in those 
States. 

361
00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:55,500
They Understand that voters are 
opposed to those kinds of laws. 

362
00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:57,900
And then I think that they 
really need to be prepared for 

363
00:23:57,900 --> 00:24:02,600
what I call the new Jane Crow, 
which is newer forms of 

364
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:08,700
surveillance of policing of 
criminalizing women and girls as

365
00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:11,600
they seek reproductive 
Healthcare and this may have 

366
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,100
nothing to do with abortion. 
I mean, the kind of policing of 

367
00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:18,400
people who want to carry 
pregnancies to term, but who may

368
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:23,500
be used Marijuana to calm their 
nerves before Labor or used a 

369
00:24:23,508 --> 00:24:27,200
Valium to calm their nerves 
before Labor, the policing of 

370
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,200
those women because we've 
already begun to see those kind 

371
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,600
of arrests taking place. 
These are just simply not safe 

372
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,500
times for anybody who has the 
potential to become pregnant in 

373
00:24:38,500 --> 00:24:41,100
the United States. 
And it's not just then the 

374
00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:44,600
policing one has to be concerned
in these states. 

375
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,800
That would seek to coerce people
into taking pregnancies to term 

376
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,000
that the United States has the 
highest maternal mortality. 

377
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:52,300
Ality rate in the developed 
World. 

378
00:24:52,300 --> 00:24:54,700
These states are the most 
dangerous places in the 

379
00:24:54,700 --> 00:24:57,000
developed world to even be 
pregnant. 

380
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,000
So there's a lot to pay 
attention to in these spaces, 

381
00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:01,500
right? 
Something you just said that, 

382
00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:02,800
people what does she mean by 
that? 

383
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,800
That it's got the highest 
maternal mortality rate. 

384
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,200
You're talking about women who 
died in childbirth. 

385
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,200
That's why you go to the third 
world. 

386
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,100
A mother giving birth in 
Turkmenistan has a greater 

387
00:25:15,100 --> 00:25:18,600
chance of surviving giving birth
than a mother in Cleveland. 

388
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,200
That's right. 
Then a mother in California. 

389
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,600
That's absolutely right. 
Yes. 

390
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,500
It's an. 
It's stunning to look at the 

391
00:25:24,500 --> 00:25:25,600
data. 
Yes. 

392
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:29,600
You know, our rates of death are
closer to Saudi Arabia than they

393
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,400
are to England. 
I mean, we rank between 50th and

394
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,800
54th in the world in terms of 
maternal mortality. 

395
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:40,500
Meaning that it's more dangerous
to carry a pregnancy to term in 

396
00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:43,100
the United States because of 
risk of death, and it is in 

397
00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:46,900
Bosnia, former war-torn country 
that experienced genocide. 

398
00:25:47,100 --> 00:25:50,000
And when we look at the data 
black, women are three and a 

399
00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:53,000
Five times more, likely 
nationally to die than their 

400
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,400
white counterparts. 
Carrying a pregnancy to term in 

401
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,000
this is not because black women 
have faulty genes or things like

402
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,000
that, right? 
It is not that it is systems of 

403
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,200
implicit and explicit bias in 
the delivery of healthcare. 

404
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:11,800
But when we drill down, even 
more closely in the states that 

405
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,900
have enacted, the most Draconian
types of abortion bans, we see 

406
00:26:16,900 --> 00:26:19,900
that black women are 10 times 
more likely than their white 

407
00:26:19,900 --> 00:26:21,400
counterparts. 
On our parts to die in some of 

408
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,700
those counties 15 times more 
likely than their white 

409
00:26:24,700 --> 00:26:26,700
counterparts to die in those 
counties. 

410
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,100
And so we have to keep that in 
mind when we hear this rhetoric 

411
00:26:30,100 --> 00:26:33,700
about, we care about women. 
And we're enacting these laws 

412
00:26:33,700 --> 00:26:36,800
because we care about pregnant 
women or because we care about 

413
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,500
the babies in these very states 
that refused to expand Medicaid 

414
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:48,200
coverage that refused to provide
adequate care for people who are

415
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,600
on assistance. 
Or who are receiving food 

416
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,300
stamps. 
Mean, this is real kind of harsh

417
00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:58,300
and cruelty. 
That is life and death for many 

418
00:26:58,300 --> 00:27:01,000
women who were coerced and 
States like Texas and 

419
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:05,000
Mississippi and Alabama to carry
pregnancies to term that they do

420
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,500
not want. 
This is forced birth, you have 

421
00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:11,400
your forgiving benefits it is 
and that's why I referenced 

422
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:14,400
earlier. 
The handmaid's tale, which is 

423
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,900
where the women who are chosen, 
who are still fertile are held 

424
00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:23,500
down first. 
Being raped by the commanders 

425
00:27:23,500 --> 00:27:27,800
and then held down and forced to
give birth to carry that 

426
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:32,200
pregnancy to term and then 
forced birth and coupled with 

427
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,800
what we just were talking about.
The only way I can figure out 

428
00:27:35,808 --> 00:27:38,000
how to call this. 
We just described about the 

429
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:42,600
maternal mortality rate. 
Certainly more so amongst black 

430
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:46,800
and brown women is that? 
This is death by motherhood. 

431
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,900
Well, it is, that's not an 
exaggeration. 

432
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,000
I know I'm trying to find a 
different way to say it, but I'm

433
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,400
just where it snowed. 
I think that part of the 

434
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,300
struggle Michael with finding 
the right words, is that this is

435
00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:01,000
staring Us in the face and, and 
it's dumbfounding, right? 

436
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:06,800
People who are elected to 
protect to serve the people of 

437
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,500
their state and community and 
that they would show such 

438
00:28:10,500 --> 00:28:15,100
disregard for the women for the 
girls for the people in their 

439
00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:19,400
state who have the capacity for 
pregnancy is just mind-boggling.

440
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,800
It is Absolutely cruel and let 
me help to set the stage a 

441
00:28:23,808 --> 00:28:25,900
little bit more with data that 
we know. 

442
00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:30,300
So a person is 14, times 1 is 14
times more likely to die by 

443
00:28:30,300 --> 00:28:34,100
carrying a pregnancy to term the
World Health Organization. 

444
00:28:34,100 --> 00:28:38,900
For decades has deemed an 
abortion as safe as a penicillin

445
00:28:38,900 --> 00:28:41,400
shot. 
We know that pregnancy isn't 

446
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:46,300
that, you know, no matter how 
passionate one is about their 

447
00:28:46,300 --> 00:28:49,900
anti-abortion stance, we will 
never get over. 

448
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:55,200
Over the fact that a pregnancy 
can be dangerous and is 

449
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,500
dangerous. 
And this data that we have at 

450
00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:00,900
stares Us in the face in the 
United States, that you would 

451
00:29:00,900 --> 00:29:05,600
think in any other context, if 
we knew that a person was 14 

452
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:10,500
times more likely to die by the 
state pushing its hand and 

453
00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:14,100
forcing them to do that. 
Well, we would see intervention 

454
00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:16,300
from Congress. 
We'd see intervention from the 

455
00:29:16,300 --> 00:29:19,000
Supreme Court. 
We'd say no, you can't do that. 

456
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,800
You just simply We can't put 
people to a death sentence and 

457
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,800
that is a essentially what it is
when one has that kind of data 

458
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,900
and the state says, we're going 
to force the hand in this 

459
00:29:31,900 --> 00:29:33,700
domain. 
Now it's one thing for a person 

460
00:29:33,700 --> 00:29:35,700
to say, I want to be pregnant 
and I want to have multiple 

461
00:29:35,700 --> 00:29:37,700
kids. 
I'm a mom, you know? 

462
00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:41,000
I mean, and I wanted to be a 
mom, but that was really my 

463
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:45,900
decision to take that on when I 
did and I happily took that on, 

464
00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:52,900
but I fear and I grieve for For 
the women in the state of Texas 

465
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,200
or those who already are in the 
state of Mississippi where there

466
00:29:56,200 --> 00:30:00,100
is only one, abortion clinic 
that remains and I have 

467
00:30:00,100 --> 00:30:02,800
interviewed staff at that 
clinic. 

468
00:30:03,700 --> 00:30:06,800
And here's what I can tell you. 
There are people who show up 

469
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,700
with machine guns outside of 
that clinic. 

470
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,800
They show up with bull horns. 
They take down people's license 

471
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,900
plate. 
Numbers, the clinic regularly 

472
00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:22,600
receives threats. 
Since row v Wade in 1973. 

473
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,400
This has not been a peaceful 
movement despite what Senator 

474
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,200
Marsha Blackburn mentioned in 
the confirmation hearings of 

475
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,500
Judge Jackson. 
Instead, what we know is that 

476
00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:37,800
over the last 50 years, there 
have been nearly 50 bombings of 

477
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,600
clinics that perform this 
constitutionally permissible 

478
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,500
service. 
There have been mass shootings 

479
00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:49,900
and killings of doctors. 
There has been arson. 

480
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,600
There have been threats made on 
people's lives and the lives of 

481
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,900
their family members and that 
this continues. 

482
00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:01,600
And I think that's also an 
important part of this narrative

483
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,800
as well. 
There's this kind of backdrop of

484
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:06,800
that. 
This is about peace. 

485
00:31:06,900 --> 00:31:10,000
It's about love, it's about 
protecting life. 

486
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,100
It's hard to see that in the 
wake of so much Carnage and 

487
00:31:15,100 --> 00:31:19,900
death caused by people who In 
any other context, we would say 

488
00:31:19,900 --> 00:31:23,300
would be terrorists, right? 
Or a movement that has been 

489
00:31:23,300 --> 00:31:26,000
bounded and terrorism. 
Any, if we said that there's a 

490
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,100
movement that identifies itself 
associated with the bombings of 

491
00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:31,700
50 clinics, we'd say that's 
terrorism. 

492
00:31:31,900 --> 00:31:35,000
Hmm, if you name a specific 
group and you said that that was

493
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,900
carried about out about X group,
that happened to be non-white. 

494
00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:41,900
We would say, well that's 
terrorism. 

495
00:31:43,300 --> 00:31:46,800
And it is within this space that
we have to begin to articulate 

496
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,100
and name. 
Just what it is, that doctors 

497
00:31:50,100 --> 00:31:54,800
nurses Clinic, staff patients, 
their friends and family members

498
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:58,600
have had to endure just by 
exercising a constitutional, 

499
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,100
right? 
It's then we need to really do 

500
00:32:03,100 --> 00:32:04,900
just are calling it. 
What it is? 

501
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,300
I'm just so afraid of what the 
court may do here. 

502
00:32:08,300 --> 00:32:12,400
And if they do, if they just get
rid of Roe v-- Wade entirely, I 

503
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,000
can't a man. 
And I say this to one comedian 

504
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,100
refers to Men of men of my own 
gender. 

505
00:32:18,500 --> 00:32:22,300
I say to them. 
Can you imagine that there would

506
00:32:22,300 --> 00:32:25,500
be a law or something that would
prohibit us just because we're 

507
00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:30,000
men to do anything, to do 
anything with our bodies with 

508
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,400
our whatever, we would never 
tolerate. 

509
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,800
First of all, such a law I would
never exist. 

510
00:32:35,100 --> 00:32:38,600
But the fact that we think that 
we can impose this on the 

511
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,700
majority gender, that's right. 
And women 51, 52 percent of the 

512
00:32:42,708 --> 00:32:48,000
population majority gender where
the minority us men. 

513
00:32:48,300 --> 00:32:52,400
And when I say us, I'm talking 
about as I point out, often 75% 

514
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,900
of Congress is still made up of 
men men. 

515
00:32:55,900 --> 00:33:00,000
Hold the vast majority of CEO 
positions in the Fortune. 500 

516
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,700
you go down any Titus, disparate
power. 

517
00:33:02,700 --> 00:33:05,400
Yes. 
Any piece of our society, men 

518
00:33:05,500 --> 00:33:11,300
have their hands on the steering
wheel and the throttle of power.

519
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:16,300
And imagine a world where if, if
the majority gender had the 

520
00:33:16,300 --> 00:33:21,600
power and they said to us, That 
you can't do x with your 

521
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,100
reproductive organs. 
You it would just I mean just 

522
00:33:25,100 --> 00:33:27,300
saying it out loud. 
People are listening this in 

523
00:33:27,300 --> 00:33:30,600
their life, the Supreme Court 
case that address is that to 

524
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:35,000
your point Michael. 
And it's one that has in some 

525
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,800
ways Fallen away about it. 
There's Supreme Court precedent.

526
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:43,200
So in 1942, there was a case 
called Skinner V Oklahoma, the 

527
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:48,000
state of Oklahoma had enacted a 
law that provided for the cash. 

528
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:52,900
Raishin sterilization of people 
who are Petty criminals, it was 

529
00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:58,100
targeted at men and the person 
who became the subject of this 

530
00:33:58,100 --> 00:34:03,100
law sued because the law applied
only to people who were Petty 

531
00:34:03,100 --> 00:34:07,600
thieves and he had stolen a 
chicken, but it did not apply to

532
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,699
people who commit white-collar 
crimes explicitly written within

533
00:34:11,699 --> 00:34:14,900
the law. 
When the Supreme Court reviewed 

534
00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:19,100
the case, the Supreme Court was 
adamant about About how this 

535
00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:23,000
case, how the law itself 
represented the worst of 

536
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:28,199
lawmaking that the law was not 
only unconstitutional but the 

537
00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:32,199
law itself was a violation of 
Human Rights and human dignity, 

538
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,400
and that such a law should never
be an enacted and would never be

539
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,800
upheld in the United States. 
I mean, it's a very strong case 

540
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,500
and it's actually a case that 
third, you know, it's 30 years 

541
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:46,300
prior to Roe v-- Wade and really
sets the stage for Reproductive 

542
00:34:46,300 --> 00:34:49,800
privacy autonomy. 
And so And it comes in that 

543
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,400
case. 
So to your point about if 

544
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:58,500
they're being a very rigorous 
defense of male autonomy and 

545
00:34:58,900 --> 00:35:03,900
with regard to reproductive 
health and rights, there it is 

546
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,800
1942 and a case that remains 
good law where the Supreme 

547
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,500
Court, very clearly very clearly
says that laws like this shall 

548
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:17,000
not be upheld. 
And, you know, there are ways in

549
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,800
which I like in the times that 
were in to the draft, right? 

550
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,000
And Congress got rid of the 
draft, we understand that the 

551
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,800
state cannot push one to put its
body. 

552
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,000
Even for the sake of defending 
the nation, you cannot be 

553
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,100
coerced to do that, right? 
Forced to do that by the state. 

554
00:35:35,100 --> 00:35:38,600
The draft is over and done. 
We pay people, if they want to 

555
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,800
fight on behalf of the United 
States because we understand 

556
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,200
that the state cannot have 
control of people's bodies that 

557
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,900
people deserve their own 
autonomy and privacy. 

558
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:52,400
Regard to their bodies and 
especially when it is something 

559
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,500
that can threaten their health 
and safety. 

560
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,800
And I see that as an analogy 
here, except that it's one. 

561
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,900
In which the state says, we will
draft, you know, women and girls

562
00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:06,600
bodies. 
And people are the capacity to 

563
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,300
be pregnant, will draft your 
bodies into this service that 

564
00:36:10,300 --> 00:36:13,300
you don't want. 
And we will pay no attention 

565
00:36:13,300 --> 00:36:19,100
essentially, if you die in the 
literal labor of Of that and 

566
00:36:19,100 --> 00:36:23,600
that I think is what is so 
disheartening for people who 

567
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:27,300
realize, what's really at risk 
and what's really at stake with 

568
00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:29,600
laws, such as those being 
enacted today? 

569
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:33,300
Yeah, that's a great analogy. 
You comparing it to the draft 

570
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,700
because that's exactly what it 
is that if you get pregnant. 

571
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:42,100
We as a society we the United 
States government will declare 

572
00:36:42,100 --> 00:36:45,700
you drafted into motherhood, you
will give birth. 

573
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,400
You will birth that child even 
If it's against your will, 

574
00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:52,000
that's going to be the new law 
of the land. 

575
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,600
Here's what I'm afraid of with 
this Mississippi case that we 

576
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,500
started talking about the 
beginning that possibly they may

577
00:36:58,500 --> 00:37:03,400
not have the the strong 5 that 
they need to go all out and all 

578
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:09,700
in on on taking way women's 
Reproductive Rights. 

579
00:37:10,100 --> 00:37:13,700
What if they come back and say 
okay, yeah we do. 

580
00:37:13,900 --> 00:37:17,000
We don't like Roe v-- Wade and 
abortion blah blah blah but we 

581
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:23,800
cannot Force a teenager, a 
child, an adult woman to give 

582
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,300
birth after they've been the 
victim of rape or incest. 

583
00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:32,700
And so they come up with a new 
law that says abortion is 

584
00:37:32,700 --> 00:37:37,500
illegal with the exception of 
rape and incest. 

585
00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:40,600
You don't really believe that 
you don't believe it's a human 

586
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:41,900
being. 
You don't believe any of that. 

587
00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:46,200
What is it really about them? 
Michelle, what is behind this 

588
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,400
passion? 
Because I don't think it's any 

589
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,400
of the things that they say, I 
think that a lot of it has to do

590
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:57,900
with power and control. 
It's just like a cases of rape 

591
00:37:57,900 --> 00:38:02,600
where the justifications, you 
know, I do it out of, you know, 

592
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,300
I love her so much. 
I'm so sorry I beat my wife 

593
00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:09,100
because I just get blinded by 
love know. 

594
00:38:09,500 --> 00:38:12,400
These are really expressions of 
control. 

595
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:18,800
And of power, and when we try to
seek some logic out of it, other

596
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,600
than that, it becomes, deeply 
confusing. 

597
00:38:21,900 --> 00:38:26,700
If you look at the Arc of how 
this plays out, not just in this

598
00:38:26,700 --> 00:38:30,700
moment but across a kind of 
historical art of politics 

599
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,100
associated with reproduction in 
this country, you see it, right?

600
00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:39,400
So the earliest vestiges of it 
were laws that were enacted when

601
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,700
there were just colonies after 
colonizing lands that Are, you 

602
00:38:43,700 --> 00:38:49,700
know, indigenous lands laws, 
that protected white men after 

603
00:38:49,700 --> 00:38:53,100
the raping of black women. 
Those laws were matrilineal T 

604
00:38:53,100 --> 00:38:54,900
laws. 
And basically what that means is

605
00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:59,600
that the children born of 
enslaved, women would take on 

606
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,900
the status of their mothers. 
Well, so there we have one of 

607
00:39:02,900 --> 00:39:06,400
our first Reproductive Rights 
kinds of laws that explicitly 

608
00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:10,500
protects white men in cases of 
rape and they don't have to 

609
00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:12,600
worry about their offspring 
being able. 

610
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:16,500
How to claim that they are their
fathers and therefore Elevate 

611
00:39:16,500 --> 00:39:20,600
themselves out of the confines 
and bowels of slavery. 

612
00:39:21,100 --> 00:39:24,900
And there are a number of other 
laws that were similar to that 

613
00:39:25,300 --> 00:39:28,100
out of the colonies, very 
earliest laws and 1600s in the 

614
00:39:28,100 --> 00:39:30,700
United States. 
We could fast-forward a few 

615
00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:32,900
centuries. 
And we see at the turn of the 

616
00:39:32,900 --> 00:39:37,400
20th century, the strong 
appetite that the United States 

617
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,800
had for eugenics upholding, a 
law that provided for the 

618
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,900
compulsory sterilization. 
They ssion of people who are 

619
00:39:44,900 --> 00:39:49,000
considered to be unfit. 
Now that was just a proxy for 

620
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,400
your poor and your white and we 
believe at the turn of the 

621
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:58,800
century and the early, you know,
early 1900's that the United 

622
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,500
States can be a country that 
practices whiteness and white 

623
00:40:02,500 --> 00:40:04,100
supremacy. 
That's really what the law was 

624
00:40:04,100 --> 00:40:06,600
about. 
But of a particular kind of 

625
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,300
whiteness. 
There was this thought that the 

626
00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:11,600
United States could cleanse 
itself from poor white people. 

627
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,200
Carrie Buck herself had been In 
a poor white girl, 16 years old,

628
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:17,700
had been raped. 
Had a baby out of wedlock. 

629
00:40:17,900 --> 00:40:21,600
The state of Virginia, rounded 
her up and her mom for, you 

630
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:26,500
know, coercive sterilization. 
And Carries case was a test case

631
00:40:26,500 --> 00:40:28,900
before the United States. 
Supreme Court, the person who 

632
00:40:28,900 --> 00:40:31,300
represented her was a eugenicist
himself. 

633
00:40:31,300 --> 00:40:33,700
And so it was really about, 
let's go and get this done 

634
00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:37,200
before the United States Supreme
Court such that other states can

635
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:41,500
pass these Eugenics laws and the
United States Supreme Court 

636
00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:45,200
upheld. 
Virginia law and Justice Oliver 

637
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,000
Wendell Holmes, said, three 
generations of imbeciles are 

638
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,100
enough. 
He said that better than to let 

639
00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:53,000
them starve for their imbecility
Society can prevent those who 

640
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,500
are manifestly unfit from 
continuing, their kind and he 

641
00:40:56,500 --> 00:40:58,900
closed out the decision. 
That said that the power that 

642
00:40:58,900 --> 00:41:02,000
the state has to impose 
inoculation is Broad enough to 

643
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,000
cover cutting the Fallopian 
tubes. 

644
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:09,000
After this thousands of poor 
white women and girls as young 

645
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,400
as 10 and 11 years old were 
coercively sterilized and then 

646
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,900
Germany He literally directly 
borrow the language of the 

647
00:41:15,900 --> 00:41:19,900
Virginia law imposing. 
Its own Eugenics, law and Nazi 

648
00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:21,100
Germany. 
Alright? 

649
00:41:21,100 --> 00:41:24,900
And u.s. lawmaker said that the 
Nazis are beating us at our own 

650
00:41:24,900 --> 00:41:29,200
game speed it up, how do you 
make sense of that? 

651
00:41:29,300 --> 00:41:31,100
You know. 
It's so we've seen these waves 

652
00:41:31,100 --> 00:41:34,300
and none of it is consistent. 
But what we do know is that all 

653
00:41:34,300 --> 00:41:39,400
of it has been about power and 
control and it has been the 

654
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:45,200
power and control over people 
who Are vulnerable and people 

655
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:49,800
whose civil rights and civil 
liberties have been trampled 

656
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,900
over time. 
Poor people, people of color, 

657
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:58,200
this has been part of a thread 
that is really never been broken

658
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,300
Michael in so many ways. 
Is there nothing we can do 

659
00:42:02,900 --> 00:42:07,600
before the next month or so to 
try to put pressure on the 

660
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,300
Supreme Court. 
I don't believe that there's you

661
00:42:10,300 --> 00:42:14,500
know, a time where it's ever 
Thing that we can do, and I do 

662
00:42:14,500 --> 00:42:17,700
believe that in state, you know,
all across the country and 

663
00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:20,700
States like Missouri and 
Oklahoma, where the governor has

664
00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:24,100
just signed a law saying, that 
abortions are banned there and 

665
00:42:24,100 --> 00:42:27,900
taxes and Mississippi and 
Georgia, and all of those States

666
00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:32,800
people can support voting rights
because it's also the case that 

667
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:38,100
in these states, there are 
legislators who are seeking to 

668
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:42,100
basically gerrymander their way 
into keeping those seats that 

669
00:42:42,100 --> 00:42:44,700
they have. 
And suppressing voting rights 

670
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,700
and the way in which folks 
across the country who care 

671
00:42:48,700 --> 00:42:51,300
about these issues will be able 
to Center. 

672
00:42:51,300 --> 00:42:56,200
These issues is through electing
people that will fully represent

673
00:42:56,300 --> 00:43:00,500
all of the people in those 
States and not simply just sort 

674
00:43:00,500 --> 00:43:05,300
of see these patterns as you 
mentioned of white men, being 

675
00:43:05,300 --> 00:43:10,000
re-elected and the holding on 
these kind of monopolies if you 

676
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,700
will of power. 
And I want to be clear here. 

677
00:43:12,900 --> 00:43:16,100
Hi, this is not Justice is not 
attack on white males. 

678
00:43:16,100 --> 00:43:21,000
But the reality is that, as you 
mentioned, the overwhelming 

679
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,500
majority of people who hold 
power in Congress, happened to 

680
00:43:24,500 --> 00:43:29,000
be white men, and Texas, 
overwhelmingly that legislature 

681
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,700
happens to be white male 
comprised. 

682
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,500
And it is not because there 
aren't people seeking to run for

683
00:43:36,500 --> 00:43:38,300
office in those states that are 
women. 

684
00:43:38,700 --> 00:43:42,300
It is true though that voter 
suppression efforts have made it

685
00:43:42,300 --> 00:43:45,600
very difficult. 
Called for people to be able to 

686
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:48,700
win campaigns. 
And so, I would say voting is 

687
00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:51,600
Central to all of this and 
supporting people who are 

688
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,100
running for office, who care 
about these issues. 

689
00:43:54,100 --> 00:43:58,000
And that includes a lot of white
guys, as well, who are trying to

690
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,100
fight back against these kinds 
of laws. 

691
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:08,200
So, if we do lose, and they get 
rid of, or most of get rid of 

692
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:11,000
Roe v-- Wade, you mentioned 
earlier that there is something 

693
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:16,100
we can do, because they probably
won't take away a States, right?

694
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:21,100
To decide whether or not a state
wants to make abortion legal in 

695
00:44:21,100 --> 00:44:25,100
before Roe v-- Wade. 
As I recall having lived in that

696
00:44:25,100 --> 00:44:28,600
era as a teenager, it was legal 
to get an abortion in 

697
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:30,600
California. 
It was legal in New York, couple

698
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,700
other places. 
And and I told the story here on

699
00:44:33,700 --> 00:44:37,100
the podcast before about when I 
was in high school friend of 

700
00:44:37,107 --> 00:44:42,700
mine, she got pregnant and she 
and her boyfriend and myself as 

701
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,500
You know 17 year olds, we were 
trying to figure out how to get 

702
00:44:45,500 --> 00:44:49,200
the Buffalo so that she could 
get an abortion, couldn't get 

703
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,600
the Buffalo, didn't have a way 
couldn't afford it, she ended up

704
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:55,200
in what is referred to as a back
alley. 

705
00:44:55,200 --> 00:45:00,200
Abortion in Detroit nearly died 
ended up in the hospital and for

706
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,900
us at 16 or 17 years old, it was
quite a traumatic. 

707
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,900
I'm sure that was traumatic and 
horrific type of an expandable 

708
00:45:07,900 --> 00:45:11,200
obviously for her because she 
had to go through it. 

709
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:15,100
It's a traumatic experience. 
But I also say Michael that in 

710
00:45:15,100 --> 00:45:18,200
Congress, there has been the 
effort to codify Roe v-- Wade. 

711
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,800
And now when you say codify, in 
other words, if Congress, if we 

712
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,300
actually had a law that said 
that this is legal, that's 

713
00:45:25,300 --> 00:45:27,500
right. 
That's why the Supreme Court has

714
00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:32,300
this wiggle room to step in and 
and essentially make the law or 

715
00:45:32,300 --> 00:45:34,800
get rid of the law or whatever 
because it's fine because our 

716
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,100
own Congress hasn't had the 
courage to do the right thing. 

717
00:45:38,100 --> 00:45:41,200
So, where where is that at? 
Is there a bill is there 

718
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,600
something people can support? 
That's the Women's Health 

719
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,500
protection act. 
It would certainly be a start. 

720
00:45:46,500 --> 00:45:50,000
It is actually passed through 
the House of Representatives but

721
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:54,800
the votes haven't been in the 
Senate yet and so that's another

722
00:45:54,800 --> 00:46:00,000
place for people to let their 
lawmakers know that they want, 

723
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:04,400
the Women's Health protection 
act to be enacted and passed and

724
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:07,400
basically what that would be is 
that there would be a federal 

725
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,700
law that would protect the right
to be able to terminate a 

726
00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:13,900
pregnancy and to be able To have
an abortion. 

727
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,900
The legislation is hadn't the 
most support ever. 

728
00:46:16,900 --> 00:46:19,500
There have been several years in
which there's been an effort to 

729
00:46:19,500 --> 00:46:23,800
try to get this legislation 
passed and this is an urgent 

730
00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:27,200
Time for getting this enacted 
and one could say, you know, why

731
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,600
not after 1973. 
And I think it easily could have

732
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:35,000
passed after 1973, but it is 
worth noting that I think that 

733
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,100
you know after Roe v-- Wade. 
There wasn't this thought that 

734
00:46:38,100 --> 00:46:42,600
we would be in 2020 to seeing 
what we see right now. 

735
00:46:43,300 --> 00:46:45,200
Yeah, there's a part of your 
book. 

736
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,900
I think it's in chapter 10 where
you talk about how we need, like

737
00:46:48,900 --> 00:46:54,900
a reproductive Bill of Rights, 
or a new deal when it comes to. 

738
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:59,100
Yes. 
Such an amazing forward-thinking

739
00:46:59,300 --> 00:47:01,200
idea. 
Could you explain this to the 

740
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:04,600
people of thing? 
So I propose a reproductive 

741
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:09,000
Justice, New Deal and the book. 
And the reason why I do is that 

742
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,900
we stand on this precipice right
now where there are high rates 

743
00:47:11,900 --> 00:47:15,500
of maternal mortality T. 
Infant mortality sex, education 

744
00:47:15,500 --> 00:47:17,200
has been got it from our 
schools. 

745
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,600
The US has not only the highest 
rates of maternal mortality of 

746
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:24,200
the developed World. 
It also has the highest rates of

747
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,900
infant mortality. 
It has a highest rates of teen 

748
00:47:26,900 --> 00:47:31,100
pregnancy as a, highest rates of
teens who have contracted 

749
00:47:31,100 --> 00:47:34,400
sexually transmitted diseases, 
which we Now understand. 

750
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:39,300
And know cause cancers later in 
life that cause death, these are

751
00:47:39,300 --> 00:47:43,900
alarming and glaring statistics 
that we get from State and 

752
00:47:43,900 --> 00:47:47,400
federal data is through, this is
not something that people on the

753
00:47:47,408 --> 00:47:50,200
left are making up. 
This is from data that is 

754
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:54,900
generated in each state. 
And so given this, this is a 

755
00:47:54,900 --> 00:48:00,000
time to protect through federal 
law through the Constitution 

756
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:05,000
reproductive health and it's 
important to understand this as 

757
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,800
Beyond just abortion. 
One of the points that is 

758
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,600
important for me. 
And that is made through this 

759
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,200
book. 
Is that we Understand that the 

760
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:19,000
attacks that we see now within 
the space of reproductive Health

761
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,200
happens to be on everything, 
right? 

762
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:24,500
It's this surveillance and the 
criminalization of people who 

763
00:48:24,500 --> 00:48:29,100
are carrying pregnancies to 
term, but not doing so perfectly

764
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,900
in some states where you see, 
women have been arrested for 

765
00:48:32,900 --> 00:48:36,700
falling down steps, while 
pregnant threatened with arrest,

766
00:48:36,700 --> 00:48:41,700
for refusing, C-section and 
arrested, for refusing 

767
00:48:41,700 --> 00:48:45,300
C-section. 
And You that know, we've seen 

768
00:48:45,300 --> 00:48:49,500
cases of women being prosecuted 
for attempting suicide. 

769
00:48:49,800 --> 00:48:53,000
During pregnancy, there are more
than 30 states that have 

770
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:56,500
enacted, what are called 
pregnancy exclusion laws, which 

771
00:48:56,500 --> 00:49:00,900
deny pregnant women, the ability
to control what happens to them 

772
00:49:01,700 --> 00:49:05,000
at death such as do not 
resuscitate orders States, just 

773
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,200
take that away. 
If you happen to be pregnant. 

774
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,500
I mean, it's across all of this 
space where the alarm Bells 

775
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,200
should be ringing. 
And so I propose this 

776
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:19,300
reproductive Justice, new Dill 
to help reset that so that we 

777
00:49:19,300 --> 00:49:24,000
protect this space so that 
people can make sound 

778
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:29,300
independent judgment and be 
protected from civil incursion 

779
00:49:29,300 --> 00:49:33,700
and criminal charges for what 
they do during the space of 

780
00:49:33,700 --> 00:49:37,700
pregnancy and before, right? 
Right, have you discussed this 

781
00:49:37,700 --> 00:49:42,400
with any lawmakers or what kind 
of movement could be started to?

782
00:49:42,900 --> 00:49:45,800
Something like this and how sad 
that we need even need to do 

783
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,000
that? 
Well, I think the people who are

784
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:52,900
part of your listening, audience
can be part of articulating this

785
00:49:52,900 --> 00:49:57,300
at the state level and also at 
the federal level because we can

786
00:49:57,300 --> 00:50:01,500
have reproductive Justice, new 
deals at state level as well as 

787
00:50:01,500 --> 00:50:04,600
at the federal level. 
And we see some of that right in

788
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:09,100
the state of California, with 
the efforts to make California, 

789
00:50:09,100 --> 00:50:12,400
a sanctuary State, and even 
protect people who are coming 

790
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,000
from out. 
Of town to be able to have the 

791
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:18,200
reproductive health care that 
they need with dignity and 

792
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:22,300
compassion. 
And so this is where the rubber 

793
00:50:22,300 --> 00:50:26,600
really meets the road and needs 
it for everybody. 

794
00:50:26,600 --> 00:50:30,700
I think it's a shame, Michael 
when we could have, in the 1970s

795
00:50:30,700 --> 00:50:33,600
young people knowing and growing
up having a better sense about 

796
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,200
their bodies about what a 
pregnancy is. 

797
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:39,000
How do people become pregnant 
and in 2022. 

798
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,100
It's got it from schools or 
there's abstinence-only 

799
00:50:42,100 --> 00:50:44,600
teaching. 
And in those red states where 

800
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:48,800
that is occurring, the higher 
rate of teen pregnancies, it 

801
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,000
doesn't work. 
Hmm. 

802
00:50:50,300 --> 00:50:52,700
And can I say something about 
what that represents? 

803
00:50:52,700 --> 00:50:55,700
Yes, you know, where the rubber 
meets the road? 

804
00:50:55,700 --> 00:51:03,100
What we know through empirical 
studies is that when a person 

805
00:51:03,100 --> 00:51:09,500
when a girl has had a pregnancy 
and birth before 18, only 2% of 

806
00:51:09,500 --> 00:51:12,700
those girls will even have 
graduated from college. 

807
00:51:12,900 --> 00:51:16,800
And by the time that they are 
30, it really sets your life. 

808
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:21,000
In a particular course that 
makes it even harder to be able 

809
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:26,400
to reach that American dream 
when you have no idea about your

810
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,000
body become pregnant. 
Because you didn't think that, 

811
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,900
you know, what sex is creates 
pregnancies. 

812
00:51:31,900 --> 00:51:34,600
And then in those states where 
it's difficult for you to be 

813
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:36,500
able to then terminate a 
pregnancy. 

814
00:51:36,508 --> 00:51:41,300
Chances are that by 30 will not 
have graduated from college and 

815
00:51:41,300 --> 00:51:44,700
then chances are, you're going 
to be Be in a low-wage job as 

816
00:51:44,700 --> 00:51:48,400
well and it's going to be 
intergenerational cycles of 

817
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:50,000
poverty. 
That are a part of that. 

818
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:52,700
And this is what we know, this 
is what the data shows us. 

819
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:57,200
And so the way for us to be able
to interrupt that at the very 

820
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:02,100
least is to be able to inform 
kids young people at age 

821
00:52:02,100 --> 00:52:06,400
appropriate stages and 
especially in high school About 

822
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,300
what sex is and about their 
bodies. 

823
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:13,000
And it is a part of a, it is 
part of biology. 

824
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,400
And the fact that kids in high 
school will learn about the 

825
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:20,000
biology of frogs, and pigs and 
toads, and everything else, and 

826
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:23,200
not themselves is absolutely 
absurdist. 

827
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:28,100
And we are the only country in 
the developed world that has 

828
00:52:28,100 --> 00:52:31,100
that kind that's doing that 
right? 

829
00:52:31,500 --> 00:52:34,700
No, I know, I know friends in 
other countries, they shake 

830
00:52:34,700 --> 00:52:37,300
their heads, they Laughs. 
They don't they do not 

831
00:52:37,300 --> 00:52:39,900
understand us. 
I want to ask you something. 

832
00:52:39,900 --> 00:52:42,700
Before we go about the essay 
that I read at the beginning of 

833
00:52:42,700 --> 00:52:46,700
this that you wrote for the New 
York Times and how powerful it 

834
00:52:46,700 --> 00:52:50,200
was and how devastating and how 
hard it was to get through re 

835
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:52,600
reading it. 
Yeah, that's just the reading of

836
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,500
it, you lived it. 
I think the way that we would 

837
00:52:55,500 --> 00:52:59,700
think those who have a we have 
an edge experiences with would 

838
00:52:59,700 --> 00:53:02,200
just think, well, that would be 
the end of me, my life would be 

839
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,000
over. 
And yet, I've also seen so many 

840
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:10,600
people victims of incredible 
cruelty. 

841
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,400
Violence discrimination 
etcetera. 

842
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,100
Etc. 
Not only in a sense won out over

843
00:53:17,100 --> 00:53:22,500
it but went on to have a good 
life and a life that made the 

844
00:53:22,500 --> 00:53:29,300
world a better place and you are
such a prime example of doing 

845
00:53:29,300 --> 00:53:34,200
this and and maybe it's just 
naive on my part to even ask How

846
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,200
how did you get to that that 
place and if you don't mind, 

847
00:53:37,300 --> 00:53:39,500
just for the people who are 
listening and for those who 

848
00:53:39,500 --> 00:53:43,000
maybe have gone through their 
own Terror and their own trauma 

849
00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:46,500
that even in the worst of 
situations that there's possibly

850
00:53:46,500 --> 00:53:50,300
a way out. 
It's a very good question. 

851
00:53:50,300 --> 00:53:53,300
And I think that the framing 
about the people who are 

852
00:53:53,300 --> 00:53:58,200
listening, who are wondering 
about, how they make a way out, 

853
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:03,300
I want to First acknowledge the 
tremendous pain. 

854
00:54:03,400 --> 00:54:09,000
Pain and Devastation. 
That one goes through, not just 

855
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:12,200
on the individual level. 
But how this is internalized 

856
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,600
with thinking about other family
members for people who are 

857
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:21,300
victims of abuse, who survived 
abuse, worry about how other 

858
00:54:21,300 --> 00:54:25,200
family members will cope with 
them, coming out about their 

859
00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,400
abuse. 
So it's multiple layers of fear 

860
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:33,200
and of trauma, and shaming, and 
guilt that can come about for 

861
00:54:33,500 --> 00:54:39,300
Who seeking to just break the 
ties, I and to be able to seek 

862
00:54:39,300 --> 00:54:45,700
some Independence and support. 
So I want to express that there 

863
00:54:45,700 --> 00:54:49,000
is light. 
There can be light at the other 

864
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:56,900
end and that one can find 
wholeness and find happiness and

865
00:54:56,900 --> 00:55:02,100
love and support from people 
that you make your family and 

866
00:55:02,100 --> 00:55:06,100
maybe even from some People who 
are biologically connected to 

867
00:55:06,100 --> 00:55:12,400
you, but I would say that the 
first thing to do is to 

868
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:16,600
Galvanize oneself. 
I left home at the age of 15 at 

869
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,100
the age of 12, I began thinking 
about. 

870
00:55:19,100 --> 00:55:22,400
Well what does it take to be 
independent? 

871
00:55:22,500 --> 00:55:25,000
What does it take to take care 
of yourself? 

872
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,500
I began thinking about that 
because the trauma was so 

873
00:55:28,500 --> 00:55:32,800
significant and so severe. 
And, you know, there is a will 

874
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:36,600
to survive. 
That is endemic in all of us and

875
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:40,900
I had that will to survive and 
at 12 I was thinking what just 

876
00:55:40,900 --> 00:55:44,300
what in the world does it take? 
Because it was so painful what I

877
00:55:44,300 --> 00:55:49,400
was experiencing and by the time
that I was 15, I was just 

878
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,600
through with it all and what the
plane ticket and ten bucks in my

879
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:56,000
pocket. 
I left home. 

880
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:00,900
And I know that that's not 
something that a lot of people 

881
00:56:00,900 --> 00:56:05,800
feel that they can do. 
But I will say that there's 

882
00:56:05,800 --> 00:56:09,400
light at the end of the tunnel 
and I think being able to 

883
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:13,900
confide finding the people that 
you can confide in makes a 

884
00:56:13,900 --> 00:56:17,100
difference. 
And then beginning to chart, 

885
00:56:17,100 --> 00:56:21,900
one's way of leaving abuse and I
don't want to make that seem 

886
00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:25,100
simple. 
I know that it's not, I know 

887
00:56:25,100 --> 00:56:29,800
what that's like from having 
watched my mother be abused by 

888
00:56:29,900 --> 00:56:31,900
my father. 
So I know that those things are 

889
00:56:31,900 --> 00:56:35,500
not easy and I know from Own 
personal experience that it's 

890
00:56:35,500 --> 00:56:38,000
not easy. 
And I know that even after 

891
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:42,800
people leave traumatic abusive 
circumstances, they can be 

892
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:48,800
haunted by that abuse and it can
follow them in the form of 

893
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,900
nightmares every night. 
It can. 

894
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,300
But I will say, you know, the 
first is finding our own 

895
00:56:55,300 --> 00:56:59,900
Redemption within to be able to 
recognize our own Humanity, our 

896
00:56:59,900 --> 00:57:03,000
own dignity, and our own worth, 
and that's an important step. 

897
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:07,000
With then carrying out what 
comes next communicating with 

898
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:11,100
others leaving that dangerous 
situation and more and I would 

899
00:57:11,100 --> 00:57:15,600
strongly suggest that we include
information at the end of this 

900
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:19,900
podcast about where people can 
get help, we will do that and in

901
00:57:19,900 --> 00:57:22,100
anyone who's listening, who 
needs that help. 

902
00:57:22,500 --> 00:57:25,600
If you're a teenager right now, 
I know a lot of young people, 

903
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,200
listen to this. 
There are adults who will help 

904
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,500
you out and who will help you 
find the way out. 

905
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:33,200
And you are not alone. 
You are not alone. 

906
00:57:33,600 --> 00:57:36,400
I think that that's also really 
important as well. 

907
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:40,900
Michael is that with the way in 
which domestic violence takes 

908
00:57:40,900 --> 00:57:46,800
place and sexual abuse, is that 
people who are abusers isolate 

909
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:53,000
people that they abuse such that
it's possible to feel as if you 

910
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,000
know, you're the only one who's 
experiencing this trauma, by the

911
00:57:56,000 --> 00:58:00,300
person abusing you and such 
that, you feel really isolated 

912
00:58:00,300 --> 00:58:03,200
from the rest of your community 
in the rest of the world. 

913
00:58:03,300 --> 00:58:07,900
But you really aren't alone. 
And as part of writing, the 

914
00:58:07,900 --> 00:58:12,100
piece that I did in the New York
Times is that I really felt the 

915
00:58:12,100 --> 00:58:17,100
need to express this for the 
sake of so many others, who 

916
00:58:17,100 --> 00:58:20,400
suffered as I did, you 
experienced what I did and the 

917
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:24,700
importance that the people who 
are legislating in this domain, 

918
00:58:24,700 --> 00:58:29,600
the people who are Judges the, 
the everyday folk who you feel 

919
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:31,900
as if these are stories that 
they've not heard, they don't 

920
00:58:31,900 --> 00:58:34,900
know people who are affected by 
by this, I figured that I could 

921
00:58:34,900 --> 00:58:38,100
stand such that they could 
understand. 

922
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:42,800
This is what that kind of pain 
looks like, and it's possible to

923
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,600
make one's way out, but it's not
easy and there. 

924
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:52,900
Lots of traps along the way. 
Well, you got out and you went 

925
00:58:52,900 --> 00:58:56,800
on to do some wonderful things 
for all of us, and I'm grateful 

926
00:58:56,900 --> 00:58:59,500
for that. 
I encourage people to read your 

927
00:58:59,500 --> 00:59:02,800
book. 
It's so powerful that link here 

928
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:06,500
on my podcast page where you can
go to get Michelle's book. 

929
00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:11,200
It's called policing the womb 
invisible women in the 

930
00:59:11,207 --> 00:59:16,200
criminalization of motherhood. 
Thank you for writing this and 

931
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,300
thank you for the inspiration to
all of us. 

932
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,200
We All know that we've got our 
work cut out for us here in the 

933
00:59:21,207 --> 00:59:24,200
next few months. 
And then after that, to make 

934
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:26,700
sure abortion is legal in as 
many states as possible. 

935
00:59:26,700 --> 00:59:30,500
Whatever support we all can give
to that, we I think have a moral

936
00:59:30,500 --> 00:59:34,300
responsibility to do that, dr. 
Michelle, good one, thank you so

937
00:59:34,300 --> 00:59:37,400
much for coming on my podcast. 
Thank you for having a podcast 

938
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:39,900
yourself. 
I encourage people to listen to 

939
00:59:39,900 --> 00:59:41,200
it. 
We're all in this together. 

940
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,100
Thank you for having me on your 
show means a lot. 

941
00:59:51,700 --> 00:59:53,900
Well, that's it for today here 
on Rumble. 

942
00:59:54,300 --> 00:59:57,100
My thanks to our executive 
producer, bezel Hamden, the 

943
00:59:57,100 --> 00:59:59,700
producer and editor of this 
wonderful episode. 

944
00:59:59,700 --> 01:00:02,800
Angel of Argos, and everyone 
here on the rumble team. 

945
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:07,200
Nick was Donald Bornstein and 
all who have helped me out over 

946
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:10,400
the past two years with Rumble 
much, much appreciation. 

947
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:14,300
And most of all thanks to all of
you who listen, and who share 

948
01:00:14,300 --> 01:00:16,800
this with your friends family. 
Neighbors. 

949
01:00:17,100 --> 01:00:20,700
I will sign off. 
Now I'm Michael Moore and this 

950
01:00:20,700 --> 01:00:27,600
is Rumble. 
Begin 

951
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:49,000
Begin.