This is Rumble with Michael Moore and I am Michael Moore.
Welcome everyone. So today on Rumble.
First of all, I'm going to give you some information about a big
announcement that we're going to be making this coming Tuesday
August 19 and I don't want you to miss.
In fact, I want you to be the first to hear it.
So I'm going to let you know how you can be the first to hear it
on that Tuesday morning. So stay tuned for that.
But today, our guest is going to be Jordan Chariton from the
investigative reporting group called status coup and Jordan is
an investigative journalist. And we're going to hear about
his latest exclusive report about the cover-up of the
crimes. The crimes, the water crimes in.
Michigan. There is new news on this and I
want you all to hear it because I can see that the mainstream
media is once again that covering this.
They think everything is now hunky-dory President Obama went
there. He drank the water.
We have Democratic Administration and the state
capitol in Lansing. Everything must be just fine,
it's not fine. And I want you to know about it
because I'm afraid not many. Others are going to help us in
Flint. And with this situation and
you've always been so good about this.
So thank you for tuning in today and listening to this interview
that's that's coming up. I also want to thank all of you
for the incredible feedback on our two-part conversation with
journalist and writer. Rebecca Tracer from New York
Magazine. It's great to have around Rumble
one of her recent pieces from a month or so ago.
Was about Andrew Cuomo and how he treats, women and men in his
office. And just a few days after
publishing that podcast conversation with her Cuomo
announced his resignation, just to be clear.
He said he was not going to step down the quote was I'm going to
step aside, you know, I pay attention to the little things
like that. The English language is an
interesting language. And step aside is different than
stepping down. And I think a lot of people are
concerned that he will give the story a time to some to die off
and then he is going to run again next year because the
governor's election is in 2022. So we'll see but incredible
reporting that she had already done on Cuomo.
And when I say now only how he treated women but also men I'm
not implying Is using his sexual Powers with men, mostly over the
years and Rebecca reported on this basically.
He just used a hammer. He's a Bully and often stood for
all the wrong things and I've I've never liked the guy and
anything I've seen about him. I've never had a sense that he
was there for the people and like Anybody you can point to a
good things that he did same-sex marriage, long before The
Supreme Court in the u.s. allowed it, but good riddance to
that, as Rebecca mentioned, simply punishing, these bad men
is not really going to completely solve.
What the real problem is here, I mean it's good, obviously the
Cuomo is resigning, if that's what he meant by stepping aside
and it's it's also good that Les moonves at sea.
Yes, and Matt Lauer at NBC, and all the others, you know, got
their comeuppance here. But why, and how these men
accumulate so much power gets lost?
Never, he really gets discussed. In fact, how do we even get to
the situation where they can do this to these women?
In other words, how and why are so many people forced to cater
to them to serve them? Them to rely on them for their
jobs, their careers, their livelihoods, why we are forced
to rely on them, to bring us the news.
It's just, the whole thing is totally fucked up.
So, thank you for everybody who wrote to me and spoke to me,
when online social media, whatever about those two
episodes with Rebecca Tracer. And I suggest if you haven't
listened to them to go back and listen to episode 203 and 204.
Two or four is the one where we got into talking about Harvey
and and all this other stuff, but thank you.
And also, if you haven't yet, listen to my conversation with
dr. Peter hotez about the covid
surge, you should check out episode 202 as we've seen.
Now in recent weeks, covid-19 cases have increased tenfold
since June. The Delta variant is 3 times
more contagious than the common cold.
We are in deep shit here, my friends and we've never really
left it as I've tried to tell people and warn people, since
the first month of the walk down, back in March of of 2020.
When I had on dr. Zeke Emanuel, who spent so many
years at the National Institute of Health and where he said on
this podcast, this is going to be three to four year pandemic.
And I remember when he said that my Dropped.
And I think people listen to it. Nobody wanted to hear that.
Nobody wanted to hear. This was going to last three to
four years. And now, another guest of ours
that we've had on the author award-winning author, John M
Barrie, who we've had on the podcast, the author of the great
influenza about the 1918 epidemic, pandemic, and he was
on C-Span earlier this week saying that, that this
Coronavirus This we have strains of it are never going to leave
us that because we have failed to take advantage of the brief
window that we had to get everybody vaccinated and to put
a halt to this that has not happened.
Only fifty percent of the u.s. population is fully vaccinated
so that means that's 160 165 million.
That are not vaccinated. Some of them can't be up because
there is no vaccine for children up to the age of 12.
Not yet soon but from those 12 and older the thing is that the
50 will be safe. If the fit the country's, 50%
vaccinated 81% of that, 50% are people over the age of 65 so
it's not enough. Schools are reopening.
People have been going back to the office and now a number of
companies have announced, they're sending people back
home. and the schools have announced they're going to still
try to do school but There are these masks mandates that are
absolutely necessary and the teachers union came out today
and agreed that teachers should be vaccinated.
You can't send your unvaccinated kids into places, where adults,
teachers and School staff, cafeteria workers bus drivers
are not vaccinated can have the unvaccinated around kids who are
also not vaccinated It's a disaster waiting to happen.
So we're in a deep deep pit here.
I know. And I know we don't want to
think this way and we want to be optimistic and positive and
everything, but I think once you once you heard that Stevie
Nicks, it canceled her tour for the rest of the year there
yesterday. That should be the big clue
right there. That one after another now, are
they're going to close the theaters again concerts plays
Etc? Things, Have been planned
because people gotten hopeful, but we've talked a lot about
opium on this podcast and the danger of Hope when it's a false
hope not based in science, not based in reality.
So my friends please get vaccinated.
Get everybody in your family vaccinated hold their hand.
If they're afraid give them a hug after the vaccinated but get
them vaccinated. This is it.
I don't know what else to say until the government finally
mandates. It, it makes it the law and
that's what's coming, those of you who are afraid, that's
what's coming. So, let's get this done because
we don't want to see what the second wave is going to bring us
now. With the Delta, the Delta
epidemic. But on the good news front here,
as I mentioned at the beginning, I am going to make a big
announcement this coming Tuesday, next Tuesday, August
17th. It's it's good news though.
So don't worry. It's not, it's not bad news, but
I have something I want to share with you about a project and
something I've been working on and it's going to be everywhere
announced on the Next Tuesday, but I would like you to learn
about it first on Tuesday morning.
So if you can, please sign up on my mailing list.
I'm going to send a letter out to everybody on my mailing list.
So you'll hear about it first and all you got to do is go to
the link here on my podcast page on the platform page that you're
listening to the Sun and there will be a link to sign up on
Mike's mailing list. Get on that list.
So that you Know about this before the general public knows
about it. I want you because we have had
this relationship for two hundred and five episodes.
So anyways, add your email to the, to my list and you'll be
the first to find out about this new Endeavor that we're
starting. And and I want you, you all of
you personally to be part of this with me.
So just click on that link, sign up to, Mike's mailing list in
and look for this special announcement on Tuesday morning.
Okay, so before Bring Jordan Chariton on to talk about the
latest news on the flat water situation.
I want to welcome a new underwriter.
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Now it's time to rumble in January, this January after more
than six years of no accountability for former
Michigan. Governor Rick Snyder for his
actions leading to the Poisoning of the city of Flint Schneider
was arraigned on two counts of willful, neglect of Duty.
Misdemeanors. He became the first of
Michigan's 49 governors in 184 years to face charges related to
their time in office. Snyder was among nine.
Senior officials in his administration who are now
facing a total of 42 criminal charges for their actions that
caused a deadly Legionnaires disease.
Outbreak in Genesee County and caused permanent irreversible.
Brain damage due to the poisoning.
Mostly lead poisoning of thousands and thousands of blind
children Back when these indictments took place here.
Earlier this year, I was joined on Rumble by Jordan Chariton of
status coup, who also does investigative reporting for The
Intercept of the Detroit Metro Times and other outlets status.
Coup is an investigative reporting and journalism
operation that Jordan and his partner Jen dies formed to Get
to the bottom of stories that the mainstream media simply
doesn't want to cover. Jordan and Jen have doggedly
pursued, the truth about what has happened in Flint.
Trying to make sure that the conspirators face Justice and
that the media never forgets Flint.
He's broken. Many of the key stories about
what has happened there with this poisoning crime and about
its cover up. He's also got a new revelation
in The Intercept of this week with Jen dies and it's titled.
The Flint cover-up wiped phones and the battle for evidence in
former Michigan. Governor Rick Snyder's
prosecution is all of, you know I have been covering this sense.
I first heard about it. This is now over seven years
ago, it's certainly been very distressing To me on a personal
level people, I know people have gotten sick, people whose
children have now, this permanent brain damage and a
city. Obviously, that I was born in
and my first film, Roger. And me dealt with the flood
story that had been ignored by the media for how this place,
that was the birthplace of General Motors.
That was the birthplace of the really the modern labor movement
through the sit-down strike. That got the UAW, its first
industrial contract in the country.
Back in the mid 30s, I'll strike that.
My uncle was in participated in as you can imagine.
This is all been very frustrating to me and very
disheartening thinking that this governor was going to get away
with it. So that's why I once again, I am
very happy and honored to have with me here today on Rumble
investigative journalist and founder.
Co-founder of status, coup, Jordan Chariton.
Jordan, welcome to rumble. Hey, thanks for having me again.
Why don't just to catch people up in case, they may be hearing
about the Flint water situation. For the first time, it's always
referred to in the media as the Flint Water Crisis, like it's
like it. It's something that just kind of
happened or a lot of people think.
Oh yeah. I've heard that about Flint.
They've got lead in the water. Jordan, welcome and and thank
you. And please give people the
basics of the background of, of how a purposeful decision was
made to take them off, clean water and have them drink the
dirty water and the governors were all in them.
So you know, as you showed and you know really Important
documentary, Roger and me, you know, Flint was once really the
Envy of America. I mean, vibrant middle class,
you know, where the Auto industry was born.
But like many cities in America. It was essentially gutted
through, you know, federal policy offshoring of jobs, Etc.
So by the time Governor Snyder, came into office a decade ago,
2011. You know, Flint was basically
broke Badly in debt. A lot of you know, a lot of
people leaving Flint abandoned abandoned homes empty lots you
know really very Stark departure from what it was you know, half
a century before. So the governor who was trying
to present himself as some kind of economic wizard, that could
rescue flailing cities like flint and Detroit along with,
you know, some local officials in Genesee County.
They were Flint is they had the brilliant idea to essentially
try and privatize the water system.
They pretend that it was not privatization, but that's
exactly what it was. So they wanted to take
essentially, take the power away from Detroit's water system,
which was the third largest water utility in the country at
that time and create a brand new Regional water pipeline called
the Kwa Pipeline. And this new Her pipeline was
unnecessary. It was going along the same
exact path as the existing Detroit, Water pipeline, which
you just mentioned at delivered water without issue.
Really fresh clean water from Lake Huron for 50 years.
So, under the guise of saving Flint residents money that they
claimed, that would say, Flint money.
By joining this new water pipeline, they took flintoff of
the Its water Pipeline. And while the construction of
this brand new unnecessary pipeline was, was under
construction. The governor, his administration
based. And the emergency managers,
that's an important Point. Unelected, emergency managers
were put in by Governor Snyder, to take away democracy, they had
more power than the elected mayor and the elected city
council. They decided Well, in the
meantime, while this pipeline is being constructed, will just Put
Flint on the Flint River which as you said, was a cesspool GM
and many others have been dumping its waste in there for a
century and you know, they claim it was accidental but the state
Snyder's Administration failed to add the proper chemicals into
the water supply when they switched that you're supposed to
put in around the country. I mean, underneath the ground,
our pipes are 50 to 100 years old.
So if you Add the proper chemicals in to make sure that
lead in those pipes did not Leach off the pipes into the
water supply very quickly. We're talking weeks, residents
started complaining of rashes, losing hair, discolored water,
foul-smelling water, but that fell on deaf ears in the
governor's office. It should important to note.
This was 2014, the year Governor Snyder is up for re-election.
There was also You know, reporting that he was already
angling to run for president in 2016.
So essentially the Snyder Administration and local city
officials. Basically told the residents,
you know, you're imagining this. Yeah, the water might be brown,
but it's safe to drink the, the data, we're finding shows, no
issues. And this went on for 18 months.
Basically, residents, even, despite residents protesting at
City Hall protesting at the Capitol decider, Administration
claiming nothing to see here as children in Flint adults, drank
toxic water, that didn't only have lead.
I mean, the media focused on lead.
It had dangerous deadly bacteria, in their known as
Legionnaires disease, which killed an Untold number of Flint
residents, and other heavy metals.
And really, you know, the word crisis like you said is overused
because crisis, means an urgent. Dilemma and Urgent issue, and
that this is not been treated as urgent, essentially for five
years. It is urgent.
I was just in Flint. Again, residents are still
getting active rashes. Residents are still losing their
hair today when they shower residents are slowly getting
sicker and sicker because the effects of lead poisoning gets
worse over as the years go on. And this has basically been
whitewashed by the national and the local me even The local
media in Michigan. Yeah, you've posted on your on
your site and I think it's, I don't know if people can get it
on the intercept side but people, this is in the last week
people that you videotaped of what the sickness that they're
still going through because of the water.
And, and they're being lied to And they want to believe that.
It's okay. Well, maybe I can't drink it but
I can maybe now I can shower in it or I can do some laundry in
it and it's amazing. As you as you interview these
people in Flint and they show right there on their on the on
their arms, on their hit in there are the effect that the
poisoning, you just, I can't even, I can't even believe I'm
saying this, we are seven plus years into this.
And they are still suffering like this.
You know, you come to Flint as somebody who's not from Flint,
but it must have a quite an effect.
When you see this, that this is going on in the United States of
America in the year 2021, in the middle of a pandemic.
Also on top of all this and and people still have this very
dangerous problem. I feel like I'm in the Twilight
Zone. I mean I've been there nearly 20
times in five years and each time I get go.
Back. I mean, honestly people that I
met five years ago are getting sicker slowly dying.
They don't have Medicare for all.
By the way, I speak with, you know, I go into people's homes,
I could smell the water, it is foul anecdotally, I've tasted
the water, it's not, right? And more importantly, these
residents are basically screaming into a cave.
I mean, the state the Can Administration.
And now the gut the Democratic Administration has fed them
numbers and data that I believe are manipulated based on our
reporting to claim that the water is fine.
The national media kind of just you know lazily reports what
they're told by the state we should say.
It's kind of been you know this misleading thing that oh well
they're changing most of the pipes have been changed.
Yeah they've only changed one out of three sources.
Isis that need to be changed. So not to get too in the weeds
but they're only changing the service lines.
Those are the water pipes that go from the curb of your home
into the home, they haven't touched people's interior home
plumbing. It's not like the acid water
skipped over people's pipes inside their home.
And if you live in Flint, the main pipes, in this underneath,
the street, they're bursting all over flint.
And they've been bursting for years.
They never change those, and they told the residents, oh no,
it Affect those pipes, like it just skips over two out of three
pipes. So until they replace all of the
pipes were talking inside the homes.
The main pipes underneath the street, there's also the problem
of the water system in Flint was developed for.
You know, when Flint had 200,000 people living there, it now has
less than 100,000. So there's a lot of steps you
know periods with the water is stagnant because it's not moving
with all the abandoned homes. And things like that.
So this is still very much a disaster.
This is still, people are actively actively drinking
water, that in my view cannot 100% definitively, be said to be
safe, particularly children. There is they never even tested
for the full spectrum of contaminants.
The only tested for letting copper.
So it's still a disaster and it's basically been whitewashed
and buried under the last 56 years of, you know, Trump
reality show, you know, Russia. Now, you know, obviously the
pandemic needs to be covered but it's just amazing to me, you
know. I'm just a guy who cares and I
go there but it's really amazing to me that I've been there 18
times and you can't even get the local paper in Flint to
investigator cover this anymore. I'm sorry your video that you
posted. You see Jordan and really is Jen
holding the camera there. Yeah.
The you you Went to the Flint Journal, which those from Flint.
First of all, thank you for doing that.
You just go right up to their door and you want to just all
you want to do in this video is hand them, your investigative
research and and what others have done to show what the
situation, really truly is. And could they just publish
that? And and of course you get
nowhere. The funny thing to, you probably
know this that the There's that sign on that building and Flame
but it's kind of a fake front like a storefront like a false
front to make it look like the store is open so they have the
fun Journal little sign out there on the on the building.
And and there are some people in there but the Flint Journal it,
it's not in Flint anymore. It's the most of the reporters
and the in the whole operation is in Bay City which is 60 70
miles to the north of Flint part of what.
But I think new house is still owns is still part of the new
house, newspaper chain and and there's like people in Flint
think that there's still like a real Flint operation there.
The paper. I mean the last time I checked
his down being published three times a week, is that right?
It's twice a week. Yeah, it's tight.
Now it's down to twice. Wink out.
There you go. So, line online, 24/7.
You, of course, but it's there, and it claims to To be there and
telling the stories of what's happening, the people in Flint.
But, but it's just it's just not the truth that.
And then you go to the Detroit, Free Press to ask them and on
the front of their building. It says, the it says Detroit
Free. Press on one side of the door
and on the other side, it says, Detroit news.
So these are the two dailies in Detroit, Detroit.
One of the few cities that still has to Dailies and you know, of
course, they're supposed to be competitive, you know, they're
not I'm supposed to, but they've had an opportunity operating
agreement for a long time now, so they heard it, they try to.
They look like, it looks like there's two papers in Detroit,
but there's really there's really one entity that's putting
out both of these papers and you don't even at the Detroit, Free
Press door. What you get when you get from
the person, there is that all the buildings closed.
They just like it sits, so mind-boggling and of course,
this is, this is With another whole episode of Rumble of
what's happening to M to our local media and and how it's
been shut down bought out destroyed so that these stories
that need to be covered locally, don't get covered but thank you
for doing that and thank you for taking all this research and
offering it to them for free in the hopes that they would really
dig in and do something. Why don't you think that the
Michigan media and especially the new democratic
Administration in Lansing in the state capitol in 2018, Democrats
won the four, top offices Governor, lieutenant governor
Attorney General Secretary of State you know and I think
people had a lot of Hope but one of the first things they did was
to dismiss any work to end. Any sort of Investigation by the
state into what was going on, what they promised they were
just ending the Snyder administration's investigation
and that they were going to do. Do their own and then in January
that these indictments these misdemeanor indictments whatever
took place. What's your take on this?
Why aren't the Democrats? Why aren't they more aggressive?
Why isn't Snyder in jail? Why isn't he having the then
bail himself out of jail until there's a trial?
What's really, really behind this?
Because it makes a lot of people listening to, this makes no
sense. Snyder's gone Democrats in
charge, let's do this. And then not only our people
safe in Flint with the water still, but the people
responsible for this, there's no real Justice here taking place.
Why? Why there's multiple reasons and
they're going to probably piss you off.
So on one end a lot of people don't know this, but Governor
Snyder. And his political machine, we're
not supportive of Republican candidate, for governor Bill
schuette, who was the Attorney General presiding over the
investigation Into the Water Crisis.
So Snyder, you know, not publicly not publicly but his
political Machine behind the scenes through their way towards
Gretchen? Whitmer, who's now the governor.
So a lot of Republicans actually came out for Gretchen Whitmer
because of Snyder's team doing behind the scenes things to try
and help her former Flint Mayor Karen.
Weaver, has told us that she was shocked.
When she, you know, first met with the governor, Whitmer and
subsequent meetings. She didn't have to really be
introduced to anyone. Because it was all people from
the Snyder Administration including people that were
involved with this water cover up.
So Whitmer kept in a lot of I mean health department,
environmental Department, people that were part of the Snyder
Administration. The frankly poisoned Flint.
So that's on one end there seems to be some political behind the
scenes. Where Snyder in the Republicans
helped, Whitmer. I can't get in the governor's
mind but she has kept a lot of Snyder's Administration intact.
Then there is the, in my view, really scandalous reason, I
always say follow the money. So as we talked about earlier,
you know, this was really a, just a privatization scheme and
this new water pipeline, the Kwa pipeline, well, somebody had to
pay for it to be constructed. Flint to join the pipeline,
would have to borrow early, 100 million dollars to to for their
part of the construction. The problem was Was Flint, was
nearly bankrupt. And in 2014 Flint had reached
its debt limit so legally. It's not allowed to borrow more
money, but the Snyder Administration and local
officials, they kind of plotted to create a fake environmental
emergency and that would be the only exception that would allow
Flint who was almost bankrupt to borrow more money.
So they sighted, you know, the necessary cleanup of a local
Lime sludge Lagoon that would really only cost, you know, a
couple thousand bucks. They created an emergency order
for that and within that they snuck in the construction of the
Kwa Pipeline and that was Bond fraud.
Basically the the bonds for the Kwa pipeline were created under
false pretenses and in fact, the former Attorney, General who
happened to be a republican is team.
He had a special prosecutor, kind of like a Robert Mueller,
invent independent, prosecutor, leading, the prosecution, they
actually charge to of Governor Snyder's.
Emergency managers with financial fraud related to that
Bond fraud. They charge to other local Flint
City officials with the bond fraud.
Based on that fraudulent Financial deal fast.
Forward Attorney, General de nesle.
A Democrat comes in. She drops charges against eight.
State and city officials, including the director of the
health department. Who is charged with involuntary
manslaughter and like you said, she basically said, this doesn't
mean we're not going to recharge them.
It just, you know, she cited flaws in the previous
prosecution. She charges a lot of those
people back, but mysteriously, the people that the previous
administration investigation had charged.
With financial fraud, attorney general Nestle, when she
recharge them, there were no financial fraud charges and The
reason based on my reporting's a lot of sources I have, well,
there's a basic conflict of interest Michael, if, if
financial fraud Bond fraud that led to Flint joining this water
Pipeline and ultimately temporarily.
Using the Flint River, if that went forward in court, even a
pre-trial hearing, you're talking Wells, Fargo wrote those
bonds, JP Morgan wrote those bonds.
A lot of wealthy investors on those bonds for this Active
water pipe. And well, they could demand
their money back. In fact, they could sue the
state and who would be on the hook.
If bondholders flee, the state of Michigan, who approved it?
And that could cost them hundreds of millions of dollars
in liability. I have been told by sources,
literally inside state government, it could bankrupt
the state of Michigan. So I do find it suspicious that
the previous administration investigation was charging.
Real, you know, real crimes, the chief investigator.
He was a former FBI agent, Andy Arena.
He said, at the time that he and the rest of them were fired by
the current attorney general, they were six months away from
additional Financial charges that my sources indicate were
Rico charges. That that's what they charge
Mafia figures with in terms of financial fraud.
So essentially if they went full force charged, Governor Snyder
with financial crimes, charged other people with financial
crimes. It could essentially bankrupt
Michigan and I Leave. That is why what you're seeing
are essentially throwing the book at certain officials.
But not the governor, the Democratic Administration in the
state capitol, are they pursuing these Financial crimes?
The bond fraud, the thing that's really the underlying cause of
all, this was the desire to get into a company.
With these New York Banks who are going to get behind this
privatized water line. Fine, you know, take flintoff
the public water line that Detroit had built for itself and
for communities on the way to Flint, and Flint itself.
Are you saying that that this Democratic Administration is not
pursuing these larger Financial criminal charges so far?
There that all I could tell you is attorney general Nestle?
Who's obviously, you know, razor-sharp?
Intelligent, she did an interview with Michigan Radio
right when she got in there in 2019 and she claimed that she
had never seen any charges related to the Kwa pipeline.
I don't, I don't want to say she's lying but but that was not
true there. As I just said there were four
state and city officials charged with crimes related to the Kwa
pipeline. She said she never saw anything
related to that. Like I said, the previous
investigation had charged for people with Which Bond basically
Bond fraud related to that and when she came in, she dropped
those charges and never brought them back against them.
The top investigator was on the record that at the time he was
fired and the rest of the team was fired.
They were about six months away from additional Financial
charges and the nine officials attorney general Nestle, and her
team charged in January, including Governor Snyder.
There were no Financial charges. So technically, you know, Say
there's still an open investigation but thus far, you
know, it's honestly, it doesn't smell right.
When one investigation is finding financial fraud.
And the second one either has a different opinion or has decided
to, you know, not go after those crimes.
I also should say and we broke this earlier.
This year, the original investigation.
Michael, they were building a case against the governor for
involuntary. Slaughter.
I mean that's about as high as you can go.
They were about they had decided they could charge him with
misconduct in office that neglect of Duty as well as
building a case. They weren't ready to charge him
but they were building a case sources.
Tell me what they were about 75 percent there against him for
involuntary manslaughter. And the current attorney general
who, you know, basically said these people messed up for three
years before us, she charged with a misdemeanor.
And the people of flint and the people of Michigan and the
people of America. The truth is we have no idea
what evidence they even presented because it was done in
a one-man grand jury, which is a secretive process where a judge
serves as the grand jury and you don't know what evidence the
attorney general and her team presented to him because it's
secretive and we won't know until you know trials you do
understand how distressing it is to anybody in Flint in the state
of Michigan. And I hope anybody who's
listening to this. That the hope that the new
Democratic Administration would somehow take up the mantle here
and Forge ahead not just with the criminal prosecutions of
Governor Snyder and his team. But also to truly truly fix the
problem. So that people are not still
confronted with poison water in Flint, these two main pieces of
the story. The cover-up and the inability
of the current Democratic Administration in the state
capital for taking this on. And the fact that quietly behind
the scenes, whatever, and then, maybe not so quietly Snyder.
People were hoping that the new governor would get elected.
She then, as soon as she was elected, Trump went after her
viciously and the Michigan militia types were all You know,
threatening her the plot to kidnap a all of the.
So I think most people when they, when they hear about
Governor Whitmer, if they're not in Michigan, you know, everybody
felt instant, empathy, and support for her because of what
Trump and his Trump stirs wanted to do to her create create
literal harm to her. That there's no kind of
bandwidth in people's heads to dig into this, or to be critical
of it. Simply because Was Trump had
practically declared her Public Enemy.
Number One. So that makes everybody wanted
just rally around her and support her but your stories
Create a more complicated picture and your stories remind
us. Sometimes how little difference
there is. You know people put these party
labels on themselves or we put them on we put labels on them in
terms of whether they're on the right or the left or whatever.
But but the truth is maybe just a little more nuanced, sometimes
more complicated and and sometimes sadder than what we
want to believe and just listening to you.
Describe this. It's just You know, I'm, you
know, I'm sort of at my Wit's End in terms of what what to do,
but you've got this new reporting now, just to just to
just to pile on everything else that you've reported on in these
20 visits over five years and thank you for doing that.
Thank you very much on behalf of everybody in Flint.
It's like, you know what, you have done and thanks to the
Metro Times And The Intercept for publishing your work.
But I'm sorry to put this on your shoulders.
Feels like we're down to you to do the actual work so that we
can figure out, you know what's really going on.
And so you have this new story that's out this this past couple
weeks here in end of July and your follow-up reporting this
week, just tell us about that. We've learned now that the cell
phones phone, records of the former Governor Snyder and
people who worked for him have been wiped clean.
Yeah, so just so your audience knows if they don't know in
January of this year myself and my reporting partner.
Jen, we broke that prosecutors had obtained.
Governor Snyder's phone calls with his chief of staff and
health director. They obtained their phone calls
from October 2014, which obviously a long time ago, very
important because October 2014 6 months after the water was
switched in, Flint a couple Before Governor Snyder's
re-election and prosecutors obtain.
They spoke on the phone 22 times over two days and it was
rapid-fire, governor calls, the chief of staff, they hang up
Chief of Staff calls to health director and and so on and so on
over two days and at this time as they were on the phone with
each other rapid-fire, Snyder's health department and
environmental Department we're going back and forth about the
waterborne Legionnaires disease which ended up Seeing a whole
lot of people in Flint, it's a bacterial disease.
It kind of mirrors the ammonia but it's much worse.
So prosecutors concluded. The governor and his chief of
staff. And health director were
basically on the phone, trying to stop this from going public,
a couple weeks before his re-election.
Obviously, if they would have made it public, they could have
saved lives at that time. So, that was kind of a big
Smoking Gun that prosecutors found.
So after that story, which, by the way, I actually handed to an
The Detroit Free Press before, we published it at The
Intercept, they said and I quote, we regret not doing more
on Flint. I said, great, here's your
opportunity and then they passed three days later but fast
forward after that, it's just it's an endless tsunami.
Once you find, you know, open door number one of corruption.
Many other doors open up then we found that prosecutors when they
got phones from Top officials in the governor's office.
Office. They were erased.
Governor Snyder's, press secretary.
So one of his top officials when she left office in November of
2015, she left her job with Snyder.
Her phone was wiped and this happened right before the launch
of the Flint criminal investigation.
Other officials top officials in the health department.
When prosecutors got their phones mysteriously, they were
no messages on them for all of 2014.
In all the way through October 2015, which was the entire
period Flint was on the Flint River.
So obviously how does a prosecutor investigate, who knew
what? When, if you don't have access
to what they were saying, what they were talking about?
Environmental officials, their phones were allegedly dumped off
at in state it, the state it Department soon.
After the governor announced or finally admitted that Flint's
water was toxic, he held a press conference in Flint and October
of 2015, announcing the high lead levels and you know that
Flint would immediately move off the Flint River and less a week
and a half. Later all of a sudden phones are
dumped off at the IT department, wiped clean.
They technically worked but there was no messages, no phone
logs of History, so you got the governor's office is health
health department, the environment that department
either, you know, complete Erasure of phones or Partial
Erasure, with no messages. On top of that we found, we got
access to documents from the investigation showing that
essentially, the governor refused to hand over documents
for three years, he would not give prosecutors his daily
briefings, so he got daily briefings, from all his
Department's, you know, put into a packet, wouldn't hand them
over wouldn't hand over briefings, he got from the
environmental Department, he would not hand over notes from
conference calls about. Flint.
So again, this is a digital. It's a digital crime.
You know you you will know who knew what when who was notified
when through emails phone calls, text messages, Etc.
So essentially you have what is very clearly a cover-up.
I mean I just put it simply, can you imagine Michael if President
Trump's press secretary Chief of Staff, Health officials
environmental officials if their phones were erased in January
2020 or February, 20 20, or March 20 20 before coronavirus
went Global. I mean, the media would be
absolutely a pot apple. Apocalyptic rightfully.
So well, this is basically what happened.
They erase their phones before a criminal investigation, they
deleted their messages. Schneider himself wouldn't
cooperate, and there were other things of the story including
Snyder's, basically his right-hand man.
His top adviser was approaching Administration officials before
their testimonies with prosecutors to basically tell
them what to say, what not to say, which is obstruction of
justice. So, you know, it's a massive
government government. Cover-up to me, I put it on par
with Watergate. I think this this would
Watergate if the president was Involved.
Nobody would have sneezed at it. But this is a cover-up that
killed people. It's a cover-up with destruction
of evidence tampering of evidence and, you know,
unfortunately, even though we broke this, it's been swept
under the rug National media has ignored it as well as Michigan
media. Well, here's somebody who hasn't
ignored it. The US Congress, the house
oversight committee, read your story and they want No, what the
hell is going on. And in fact, I believe the chair
of the committee congresswoman Maloney from New York has been
demanding some answers about this because she seems pretty
mortified having read your reporting on this.
What has what could tell us about what has the reaction been
in? In Congress about this?
Yes. Oh After we broke this, you
know, obviously we contacted the oversight committee, chairman
Maloney issued a statement really frankly, scathing against
Governor Snyder. Saying he obstructed their
investigation there federal investigation since day.
One obviously saying, you know, any, any, any possibility that
evidence was destroyed or tampered with is a very serious
issue and And you know we spoke with the committee and they say
they were investigating it. There's also the issue you know
separate from the state criminal investigation you know, Governor
Snyder based on our reporting perjured himself in front of
Congress I believe that's still a crime in America.
So as far as we know, they're currently investigating, I
believe, you know, part of their investigation would have to be,
you know, asking the Attorney General of Michigan's office,
you know. Elaboration there to find out
certain things which, you know, I find also odd because again,
the Attorney General's office when they charge people in
January, they did not charge. Anyone related to what we found
and this is not our opinion. This is from documents we
obtained from the criminal investigation and a lot of
sources. So again it gets back to, you
know, I just don't know, I don't know what the attorney general
or office is doing because, you know, if you read the story,
It's overwhelming. I mean, it is overwhelming to
the point that you know as a journalist you usually get
government officials or corporations, kind of spinning,
coming up with you know ways to rationalize things.
It was Silence of the Lambs, Michael, the health department.
When I said, do you have, you have an explanation for these
messages being done? They just said, quote and I, we
don't care to comment and others would not comment either
including Governor Snyder's team.
So as far as we know the house, Is investigating it.
We're going to follow up with them and make sure they're
actually doing so rather than just saying.
So, yeah, let me just let me just read the quote from
congresswoman Maloney after she read your your piece here.
Recently, about the wiping of the phones and hiding evidence
etcetera. And again, she's the chair of
the house oversight Committee in the United States Congress.
This is what you said regarding your reporting.
Quote, it would be deeply troubling if any of the
officials involved in the poisoning of Flint's children,
destroyed evidence of their misconduct Governor Snyder.
Obstructed, this committees investigation from the outset
and set the tone that his decisions were above
accountability. Governor Snyder, made the choice
to put money over the lives of children in Flint and he must be
held accountable, man. That is a that's a serious
statement in reaction to your reporting.
And yes, it's absolutely incumbent upon you and the rest
of us to make sure that her committee and others follow
through on this. What?
So for congratulations, for getting the, you can't get the
attention of the local officials or the people in Lansing.
But, but you certainly, Have got the ire of the chair of the
house oversight Committee in the United States Congress.
Is there, is there any reason that the Attorney General in
Michigan can't subpoena or can't?
I mean, I mean maybe I don't know the technology as well as I
should about when you wipe a phone but it seems that
somewhere that information is stored somewhere.
There's a way to get it but it would require the attorney
general or others of that stature to take some sort of
action or or not. Not is is it is this evidence
that has now permanently been vanished?
That's a great question. One, we ask that they will not
answer every time we reach out to them, it's just you know,
can't comment, there's an ongoing criminal proceedings.
But you know, the Year this is the year 2021, there's forensic,
technology to retrieve messages and data from phones.
Absolutely. We, you know, honestly, we don't
know. If they did that.
But what we do know is when the attorney general and her team
came in and cleaned house of the previous investigation, they
said, the basic reason they were doing so is because evidence was
not thoroughly obtained or the previous investigation.
Had not gotten all the evidence and they claimed there were
millions of documents that were not obtained.
Etc, etc. So if that's the case, Which I,
you know, based on sources I don't think is entirely true.
You would think they would have gone, the extra mile to get the
forensic, experts technology, you know, subpoena phone
companies to retrieve anything that was erased.
And, you know, you would think they'd as this story was coming
out if that were the case, it would behoove them to tell us
that. So, you know, obviously it would
be less, not that it would be. Is scandalous that they did this
and they tried to cover their tracks in a race things.
But at least people would have the benefit to know, you know,
they might have tried to get away with it but the Attorney
General's office has it, but that has not that has not
happened. And you know the other thing is
you know at a certain point you really the people of flint and
frankly, the former mayor of flint in an interview we just
did last week said and I quote the Attorney General was not
truthful with the people of flint and she she went a strong
to say as you know, attorney general Nestle's helping the
governor get away with murder. So I'd love to be wrong.
I would love to, you know, maybe they'll have egg on my face and
they're building a case against Snyder for more.
But from what it stands right now, it's mind-boggling.
Even just from, I mean, Michael, you know, politics, even just
from a political perspective, forget what's right?
Or wrong? It would be great politics to
throw the book at Schneider and, you know, the That's came in and
write it this wrong, but it's silence.
I mean silence across the board from elected, Michigan, and
Flint officials from as we spoke about the media and the Attorney
General's office, you know, obviously it's a criminal
investigation. I understand.
There's certain things they cannot say, but the people of
Flint, you know, trusted them when they came in to Flint and
said, we had to restart this investigation.
Citing, everything that went wrong, or they claimed went
wrong with the previous investigation.
And, you know, Flint residents, put, put their belief and faith.
In this, in the Democrats that were restarting.
This thing and, you know, two and a half years later, you
know, there's a misdemeanor charge against the governor and
a settlement, you know, civil settlement that most residents
I've spoken with feel is way way, you know, way way too
little Hans was going to end up. You know, I don't love making
political predictions but I always try to be honest with my
audience, you know, right now it does not look good there, you
know, Governor Snyder's got an army of lawyers and all the
money in the world. As we know in the criminal
justice system, it's really about how much money you have
that, that helps, you know, outcomes to get off with crimes
right now. A judge has paused the criminal
proceedings and is hearing Motions to dismiss against top
officials and the governor's lawyers are trying to get you
know put forward a motion to dismiss.
They are. Citing errors that were made by
attorney general Nestle's teams. I don't want to get to in the
weeds but, you know, errors that were allegedly made in terms of
not making sure attorney-client, privileged documents and
information were released. So technically, Ali.
And I've spoken with lawyers that tell me Snyder could get
off on this technicality and what we say off.
We're even just talking about the the absurdity that it's only
a misdemeanor. I mean, I just go with my
reporting in facts and the facts are, there's a lot more against
this Governor than a misdemeanor.
And I think honestly, you know, people have asked me, why do you
stay on this? Why do you keep going back?
Because this is not just to me about one city, it's about
America. Because if a governor and his
whole Administration, Raishin can get off, and there's no
accountability with poisoning, a city leaving them to die.
Basically, then, you know, what makes you think your Governor is
going to think twice or your mayor's going to think twice
whether its water fracking mining.
I mean, the list goes on of what it could be.
That makes people sick kills people.
I mean, Libby Montana, there was a disastrous asbestos crisis
that killed. A lot of people.
Go look at West Virginia, I mean, the coal.
Coal, Coal, pollution, call disasters that have killed.
You talking, tens of thousands of people down there through
corporate greed, cutting corners.
And if this is allowed to stand in Flint, you know, I really
fear for the precedent that's that sets up and I'll also just
say from a human level, you know.
I understand that there's a lot of threats in this country you
have right now, you know, to me, very dangerous people, you know,
refusing vaccinations Pushing lies about, you know, the vax
vaccines and coronavirus you very dangerous.
People, we talked about the white supremacist that you know,
tried to kidnap the governor are, you know, making threats
all around this country against whether it be black people or
other vulnerable communities. There's a lot of threats but I
got to tell you something. Michael, you know, we can't live
without water. That's the number one need.
And if this goes on On without true accountability.
I really, you know, to me, That we don't have a country anymore.
We have a multi-trillion Dollar corporate conglomerate that will
look the other way as Citizens are poisoned.
Right? Right.
So what do we, what do we do? What do the people who are
listening to us right now? What can they do?
Is there anything they can do for the people in Flint?
Please don't send more bottles of water.
That doesn't fix the problem who's advocating for the people
in Flint right now. I've been Audiences for a long
time, you know, I'm not saying don't protest outside the
politicians office or protests outside of BlackRock and, you
know, protest everywhere you can within, you know, within health
and safety because obviously there's still a pandemic.
But to me, the main reason, this has been covered up is because
the media has been complicit in the cover-up.
If you had, I mean, to be clear, Michael the New York Times.
They know about this. Story, we just broke.
We've gone through Detroit, Free Press, Flint Journal.
Washington, Post knows the Associated, Press knows other,
local Michigan outlets now, because I've sent it to them and
I've gotten responses from a lot of them.
Okay. So they are The Gatekeepers, I
mean, what's outrageous and infuriating to me.
Michael is, how do people stand up and demand action,
particularly people in Flint if they have no idea?
I just interviewed Ariana Hawk. She is a mother, her son.
I was on the cover of Time. Magazine in 2016 with his body.
Rash has a young African-American boy and I sat
down with her to interview her and she was hearing about this.
What we just broke for the first time for me, because where they
going to find it, it's not coming from Michigan.
Media is not reporting it, and National media is not reporting
it. So how can Flint residents,
stand up and demand action? If they don't know about the New
Revelations of this cover-up, the New Revelations.
Of corruption. And basically, you know, for
these wealthy white folks to save their hides, they knowingly
allowed these people to continue drinking toxic water.
So to me, what can we do? Well, you know, the New York
Times has an address. The Washington Post has an
address, Flint Journal, Detroit, Free Press.
I'm talking civil disobedience, nothing more than that, but I
think people need to start protesting outside their local
media. These folks should not be
comfortable as they. This is not simply you know, oh,
you say tomato. I say tomato.
And you think there's a major story here and we don't I mean
the hell Congress, just reacted and they're investigating.
That's a major news story that they Media is ignoring Flint,
media is ignoring National media, is ignoring.
So I tell people, obviously, everyone's situation is
different, not everyone can get out there and protest.
Particularly Flint residents who are mentally and physically
exhausted from all of this for seven and a half years.
But I say shame, the media Force, the media, to cover this
forced the media to Jen, and I would love it.
If we weren't the only ones, the New York Times has a lot more
resources than we do, and they could be digging much further,
and finding even One more share you know if necessary get
outside the Attorney General's office again to be clear.
We're not we're just talking about Civil Disobedience and
protest but if people just nonviolent, yeah non-violence.
But at the end of the day, the media are The Gatekeepers that
are that have declared this over that have basically Hoodwinked.
Well-meaning people all around the country into thinking this
is over I get responses all the time.
I'm what are you talking about? I thought this was fixed.
So, to me, that's the biggest thing of what people could do,
stand up and demand accountability outside the media
outside, the Attorney General's office.
And, you know, don't let up. Because again, it's not just
about Flint. It's about all of us.
I think that's a very important thing to do and then and if
people will post this on social media, if you can if you see
can't make it to Flint or Detroit or Lansing, I've noticed
in the past few days, you have received attention and support
from Mark Ruffalo from Susan, Sarandon from Erin Brockovich,
and other members of Congress row, Kana Rasheeda Talib has
been vocal about this. So this This is so.
So the more, the better not let attention die on this.
It's I agree with you so much in terms of if we let them get away
with this, whether it's the Republican Governor that
initiated the poisoning and then covered it up, Rick Snyder or
whether it's the current Administration that has been
dragging their feet on this and not Really going after the
people there. It's, you know, how I mean.
I in my last film, I put in that scene of President Obama coming
to Flint And drinking the water publicly at this rally to tell
the people of Flint, the water was safe and clean.
And then, of course, we find out later that he was, well, you can
see in the footage, I put up, he was fake drinking.
Any didn't actually swallow any water smarter than that, but
they brought they brought the water in from Air Force One.
There was no water in that school in that.
High school is a closed down. They close down the whole Water
Systems of The kids wouldn't drink the water in the school,
so it was very, very disheartening to see, President
Obama do that. People were shocked.
I'm glad you brought up the racial part of this, the white,
the rich, white people, who are making money off the Flint water
privatizing. The water poisoning the people
in the process. This is a black City.
It's it's majority black residents.
I've said, many times if this water situation, this poisoning,
it happened to Bloomfield Hills or Grosse, Pointe or Ann Arbor
in Michigan or any wealthy anyway, Community majority White
Community. This just wouldn't have even
happened at all and and we don't discuss this enough in terms of
the racial implications behind all of this.
But if you want to poison a city, that's these days probably
less than Sixty percent black more than 40% white, but the
white people there as you, I'm going to put your video up here
on my, my platform page. So that people can see, you talk
to the people of flint and the the poor white people, the
people who are white who live there, there are people who used
to have, you know, middle class, jobs and homes out in the
suburbs have had to move back into Flint because they can no
longer afford the the So-called middle class.
Lifestyle. So you see you see a
majority-black city with thousands of poor way people in
it and I want people listening to this if you could just please
take a couple minutes and watch the video here of interviewing
people in Flint and then having them show you what still
happening to their skin. They can't show you what's
happening to their insides and they are mentally beaten down
after seven years of this. So I'll just I'll just say also
in that video and you can find it on our YouTube status.
Cou cou p literally I interviewed seven to ten people
residents. I know that I've interviewed
over the years just in a circle a woman who had to have a trach,
a tracheotomy after drinking this water, a woman who has a
very rare form of cancer was healthy before drinking this
water. Men, who develop Parkinson's
after drink of this water, a woman who her children had met
extremely high lead levels and she was pregnant during this
Water Crisis and her child was born with high levels.
Man whose liver is failing and it was never a drinker.
This is just in a circle with 7 to 10 residents another A woman
who has lost 70 pounds and his bone thin, and she was showing
me the rash, is she still getting?
That's just seven people if I went throughout Flint, I've met
people that have no teeth anymore because the water that
people who have no hair, the list goes on.
So for people, I think we started by talking about this
term crisis, but it's been used so much that people don't get.
It's still an active crisis. I mean, it is Active disaster
with people still getting rashes, losing hair teeth,
falling out residents, tell me their eyes burn when they take a
shower. So, if you watch those videos,
you know, this is, these are the victims of the cover-up, were
exposing their, their, the living victims.
And I really hope people when they see these videos when they
read these stories. And thank you so much for
elevating. It take action because I'm
telling you Not that, you know, Trump, and, you know, the
radicalization of the right and covid.
They're all important. But, you know, we need to walk
and chew gum at the same time. This is still one of the top
stories in the country and it needs to be covered and
responded to as such. Well thank you Jordan for
covering it. And thanks also to Jen for doing
this important journalism and keep doing it.
I encourage people The to follow you guys and I will do my part.
I will keep covering it. I will keep raising my voice on
this. And, and again, when I say,
don't send bottles of water, I just, I mean, I know this makes
people who are on our side of the fence and liberals, whatever
it feel good. And I appreciate everybody in
the beginning, when this was revealed sending, literally
cases and cases, in cases of bottled, Of water.
But those 16 ounce bottles of water plastic bottles, forget
about, just the environmental issue of that much plastic being
used, but the average human in the United States of America
uses about 50 to 80 gallons of water a day that's for drinking
and showers and baths, and for your dog and to cook and the
brush your teeth and everything else that we use water for.
So if you just do the math of let's say, 50 gallons a day and
you got less than a hundred thousand people, I'm going to
sixteen-ounce bottles of water are needed every day.
Millions, millions the day. To provide the water that human
beings need in Flint. Michigan.
There's no way you could send anybody can send millions of.
That's not the solution. The solution is Jordan said, is
to replace all the pipes. Including the internal piping in
everybody's home and the appliances, the the washing
machine, the dishwasher, they're all wrecked.
The appliances that use water in people's homes.
Have been wrecked been destroyed.
This, this is a This problem is nowhere near being fixed.
And I know a lot of people think that something happened,
something good happened. Well, there are some things
happening and the other rest of its cosmetic.
So that you don't think about this.
In Jordan. I think I'm so happy that you
point out that nobody should see this.
Just as a flint issue and the issue isn't that?
We've got lead in the water around the country, we've known
that, for some time. The issue is is that those in
charge? Think they can get away with
this. That they can cause this kind of
death and destruction. And Michigan is proving.
That maybe just, maybe they will get away with it.
So, thank you, Jordan, for staying on top of this.
Continue to do this work, please, I'll do my part.
Everybody else listening to this.
Do your part, make your voices, heard get on social media, talk
about this, share this episode, and Jordan and pass this on to
Jen your partner there. Many thanks, thank you very much
from those of us who grew up there, who are from there who
still live there. I'll be damned if I let them get
away with us. Thank you, Michael.
It really means a lot that you elevate this because obviously,
you know, this is your hometown and you have a big voice.
So I thank you for continuing to stay on it.
Well, thank you and please come back and be a more humble here
in the future and let us know further developments.
Absolutely. Well, thank you for listening to
Jordan and myself on this very serious issue.
I hope you're not tired of listening to it.
The people of Flint are more than tired right now and they
deserve our help and support and, and we need to speak.
We need to speak up to the Democrats and others that we
believe are on our side. To do the right thing here and
the Governor Rick Snyder needs to atone for his crimes.
So please do what you can to help out.
And thank you for listening today, and get ready for our big
announcement on Tuesday, this coming Tuesday.
August 17th, be sure to sign up here on the podcast platform
page. There's a link there to sign to
be part of my mailing list, get on the meat.
Ling list because you're going to you're going to get the
announcement first and I'm so anxious to in excited, to share
this news with you and what we're going to be doing.
We've worked on this for many, many months since 65 ad impact.
And and I think you're really going to like this new thing
that we're going to be adding on to what we're already doing.
So sign up, sign up in Tuesday Morning, look for what look for
a look in your mailbox and see what we've got for you.
Okay, my friends, thank you for this and thanks to our executive
producer bezel, Hamden, our editor and and sound engineer,
Nick quads, and everybody who helps me put this podcast on.
Thank you very much and we'll see you on Tuesday in the
mailbox. And next week's podcast will
come days after that. So be.
Well, my friends. This is Rumble and I am