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Now, I'm awake to the world. 
I was asleep before until we let

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it happen. 
When they slaughtered Congress, 

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we didn't wake up when they 
blame terrorists and suspended 

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the Constitution. 
We don't wake up then either. 

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They said it would be temporary.
Nothing changes instantaneously.

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And it gradually heating 
bathtub, you'd people to death 

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before you knew it. 
Hello. 

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This is Rumble with Michael 
Moore and I am Michael Moore. 

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And we are listening right now. 
To the soundtrack from the 

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series, The handmaid's Tale. 
If you haven't read the book by 

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Margaret Atwood, if you didn't 
see the original movie back in 

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the 80s, or if you haven't 
watched the series, starring 

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Elizabeth Moss on Hulu, over the
last, maybe four years. 

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It's never too late to start. 
It's one of the most frightening

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stories. 
I don't know if they classified 

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as a horror movie. 
It should be It's a tale 

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supposedly set in the near 
future when the United States 

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becomes a religious fascist 
country, the religious, right 

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takes over. 
Renames. 

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The United States of America, 
the Republic of Gilead. 

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And women lose all of their 
rights, those who are still 

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fertile because there has been 
some unexplained environmental 

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disaster that has made the vast 
majority of women infertile. 

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So the fertile ones are 
essentially kidnapped by the 

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government and sent to camps 
where they are trained to be 

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essentially raped and then made 
pregnant by the Commander's the 

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elite. 
Eat of the right-wing. 

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And then when the baby is born, 
it's given to the commander and 

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his wife to race in the new 
fascist Republic of the United 

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States. 
It's the most mind-bending thing

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I've maybe ever seen on 
television because it feels 

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obviously, so real and so close.
I remember thinking back in the 

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first season this is so great. 
Thank God, you know, where 

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nothing like this. 
And then in the after four years

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of trump and then this would 
happen this past week. 

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Were political was able to get a
copy of and leak the 98. 

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Beige decision that has already 
been written by Justice. 

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Alito declaring, Roe versus Wade
over declaring abortion, illegal

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completely illegal. 
And providing a series of 

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arguments that are stunning in 
there ultimately their hatred of

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women, their desire to control 
the majority gender and their 

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disregard for the constitutional
rights to privacy and opening 

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the door to go beyond abortion 
and do the other things that 

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they've been wanting to do. 
Now, for some years, starting 

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with ending, same sex. 
Marriage reversing that decision

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from 2015, making the morning 
after pill and the abortion 

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pill, illegal illegal to 
transport across state lines 

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illegal to mail, to a friend, or
a relative whole series of 

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things that they've already 
state legislators in Tennessee, 

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Louisiana, Oklahoma, Texas. 
They've already started working 

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on these. 
They've already started passing 

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bills. 
It's all a ramp up to what's 

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going to happen in the next few 
weeks, when they officially 

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declare, that women no longer 
have a right to control their 

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reproductive organs. 
Where women are going to be 

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forced. 
To be pregnant once pregnant, 

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stay pregnant, and then give 
birth some nine months later. 

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Also, let me explain just before
we get too far down the road 

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here. 
In today's episode, when you 

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hear me or the guests, or 
anybody use the word, or term 

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women or women, we mean, that 
more broadly. 

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We are also talking about people
who can get pregnant and that 

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includes trans and non-binary 
folks. 

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So let's live in the 21st 
century, my friends and that, 

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while we may still be using this
word in the context of this 

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conversation, We are including 
anybody who can get pregnant. 

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But it's stunning to even kind 
of say those words, isn't it? 

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That this is the country, we're 
going to be living in this 

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version of a handmaid's tale. 
Forced pregnancy, once pregnant,

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you're forced to carry to term. 
And also a declaration that a 

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fertilized egg is a human being 
that you are a human being a 

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full human being with human 
rights at conception. 

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And Louisiana has already 
started to in their bill, not 

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only saying that, but if you do 
anything to a fertilized egg, 

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you are a murderer. 
They're going to make it an 

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actual homicide. 
And women who if they do have an

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abortion, a doctor who performs 
an abortion, the plan is to 

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arrest him on charges of murder.
I'm not making this up. 

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I know a lot of people just turn
the news off this week because 

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it just can't get any worse than
this, right? 

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But I don't think that there's 
ever been a Supreme Court 

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decision that has removed an 
actual right, a right that we as

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Americans have and that's what 
this decision is going to do. 

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You women says the court. 
Are no longer full citizens. 

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Your now, sit going to be 
second-class citizens. 

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As I wrote this past week, I'm a
subset column which I'll put a 

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link to here on the podcast page
or you can go just go to Michael

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more.com and it will come up. 
It's called the forest birth 

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ruling and I lay out my reaction
to what the Supreme Court has 

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done. 
I really, if you haven't read 

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it, I love for you to read it. 
It's free. 

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There's nothing behind a pay 
wall on the sub stack. 

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If you wanted, subscribe and 
donate to our work and the 

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things that we're planning to do
in the coming. 

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Year, thank you. 
You can do that. 

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But you don't need to honest to 
God. 

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I want to, I have not I'm trying
to think of a time during my 

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lifetime. 
When something so evil has taken

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place in the name of you and I 
in the name of the United States

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of America and there's been 
bullying me there's been a lot 

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of a lot of instances. 
I could cite a lot of events, 

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but honestly, I think I'd have 
to go back to August of 1964. 

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I'll was I then just a tyke a 
kid when Lyndon Johnson and his 

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Administration lied that we've 
been attacked by the North 

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Vietnamese and then they in 
Congress, all of Congress. 

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All the United States Senate, 
with only two senators voting, 

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no to voted to begin the Vietnam
War. 

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The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution. 
So for me to say that this past 

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week II, don't that regardless 
of all the other awful things 

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that have been done in our name 
in these years since Vietnam, 

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nothing I think matches the 
Supreme Court getting ready to 

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remove the rights of free 
citizens. 

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The rights of the majority 
gender of women. 

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And if we allow this to happen, 
and here's the lesson, if you 

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haven't seen read the handmaid's
tale, the lesson is it starts 

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with one thing and if you don't 
stop that, one thing. 

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It is a snowball that turns into
an avalanche These will not be 

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the last rites. 
They take away these bastards, 

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these right-wingers these sick 
fascist, these white 

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supremacists, these women 
haters. 

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These, I mean, it is so 
catastrophic in the sense that 

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that, you know, in the past. 
Yes, you know, we would have our

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disagreements on either side of 
the political fence, or we, or 

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we'd have multiple 
disagreements, because there 

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shouldn't be just two sides of a
political fence in a democracy. 

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There should be five sites 10 
sides if you want to make sure 

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that the entire spectrum of 
political thought is represented

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in our democracy, we don't have 
that. 

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We've never had that. 
We've never achieved the 

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so-called American Dream. 
That we've been told about. 

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Since the beginning. 
They're not going to stop here, 

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my friends. 
You know that? 

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If you don't know that, you are 
setting yourself up for a very, 

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very bad situation that someday 
will involve you and your 

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rights. 
You won't be able to just sit 

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back and say well I'm not a 
woman nothing's going to happen 

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to me here. 
I'm not gay nothing's going to 

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happen to me here. 
I'm not black or brown. 

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If you are, if you have any kind
of thinking like that, I can 

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guarantee you and I assure you 
That, that kind of thinking that

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response. 
Will result in your eventual 

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downfall. 
We're really in deep trouble, my

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friends and you know it and I 
know a lot of people don't want 

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to think about this. 
I know that's why we turn the 

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news off, but we all have to act
now I'm not messing around. 

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I will not live in Gilead. 
I will not allow this small 

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percentage. 
Do you see the polls by the end 

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of the week? 
After this decision, was leaked 

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over 70% of Americans oppose 
getting rid of Roe v-- Wade and 

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only 27% 27th is ABC News poll, 
27 percent support, the right 

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wing, getting rid of abortion. 
That's it just twenty seven 

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percent. 
We are the majority, vast 

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majority. 
And by the way, the poll also 

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showed that I forget the exact 
number, but that it was 

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something in the 30s, like 
30-some percent of Republicans 

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oppose getting rid of Roe v-- 
Wade. 

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Because, of course, even 
Republicans find themselves with

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a pregnancy. 
They can't handle a pregnancy 

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that's unwanted. 
And if take advantage of the 

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fact that this has been a 
country that has freely allowed 

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for and made it possible though.
With so many restrictions by 

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now, and so many states with 
maybe only one or two clinics. 

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Still made it possible that if 
you wanted to get an abortion, 

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even if you're a republican, you
could get one and you did. 

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I won't live in Gilead, you 
won't either we have to take 

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action and we have to take 
action now and I have today, an 

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incredible guest who is a fellow
at the Ford foundation and is an

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attorney civil rights. 
Incredible woman who has for 

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years been studying and 
developing the plan to prevent 

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the handmade still. 
Her name is Cynthia, Conti cook 

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and she very specifically has 
focused on the surveillance 

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state that we Created in this 
country and how it will be used.

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Against women to stop them. 
If they think there is still 

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going to find a way to get an 
abortion, they're going to find 

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themselves in prison and she 
will be my guest here in just a 

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few minutes and we are going to 
talk about the real life 

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handmaid's tale. 
That's already in existence. 

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Before we bring Cynthia out, let
me just take a second here to 

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thank my wonderful Underwriters 
of this podcast that the people 

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who helped make this happen and 
support my voice support, the 

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other voices, I bring on this 
podcast, I'm incredibly grateful

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00:13:49,900 --> 00:13:52,600
and I've got a new underwriter 
today brand-new. 

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I'm really excited to announce, 
and that new underwriter is 

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You all know what I'm talking 

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00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:11,000
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know but the call map, it helps 
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That's calm.com / I'm below. 
I'm very grateful for calm for 

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supporting this podcast. 
I also want to thank our other 

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underwriter for today's episode 
in. 

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That is Shopify. 
A long time, supporter of 

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Rumble. 
Shopify is the all-in-one 

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mine and by mine, I mean, of 
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the help of Shopify, I launched,
this store this online store 

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00:15:41,900 --> 00:15:44,800
last year is a way to raise 
money for causes and issues and 

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00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:48,500
things that I believe in. 
So, when you buy a rumble hat or

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a mug, or a sweatshirt, a 
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So, whether you're trying to 

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00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:44,000
So onto our episode here today, 
Cynthia Conti cook. 

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00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:48,500
Is an award-winning civil rights
attorney writer speaker and 

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00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:51,800
researcher. 
She is currently a technology 

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fellow at the Ford Foundation, 
working with the foundation's 

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gender racial and ethnic 
Justice, team where they study 

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00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,800
the expanding, use of 
surveillance Technologies 

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against immigrant communities, 
as well as the potential use of 

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technology to create. 
Criminalize people who seek or 

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Aid. 
Abortions. 

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00:17:13,700 --> 00:17:17,099
Such important work right now 
before doing this. 

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00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:19,800
She was a civil rights litigator
and a public defender for the 

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00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,800
Legal Aid, Society of New York, 
where she pioneered a 

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00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:27,200
first-of-its-kind public 
database that tracks misconduct 

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00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,500
by the New York City police 
officers. 

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00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:33,600
Thank you for that Cynthia. 
Her work has been featured in 

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00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,700
The New York Times, the American
Bar Association and the 

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00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:40,900
intercept, and she has earned 
several Awards including the 

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00:17:40,900 --> 00:17:45,700
2019, legal Rebel. 
Award from the American Bar 

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00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:49,000
Association. 
Please, everyone on this very 

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00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,400
important episode in this very 
important week in the life of 

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this country. 
Please welcome, Cynthia. 

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00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,500
Conti cook. 
Thank you, Cynthia so much for 

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00:17:59,500 --> 00:18:03,100
coming on my podcast today. 
Thank you for the invitation it 

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00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:08,300
seen you on CNN and at the end 
of your interview I was so moved

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00:18:08,300 --> 00:18:13,200
and so I learned things but it 
really also shook me. 

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Me to my core a bit because 
while I and most of the people, 

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I think listening to this know 
that we have grown into a 

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surveillance state, that is 
often run by police who are 

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00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:28,800
often not trained to be on the 
side of Justice. 

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00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,600
Even though that they're part of
the justice system, maybe we 

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00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,100
just start with ad but then I 
want to really get into. 

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00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:38,200
I have this sense that that were
becoming a nonfiction reality 

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00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,700
show version of the handmaid's 
tale. 

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00:18:41,300 --> 00:18:43,200
Well, thank you for that jumping
off. 

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00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:45,700
Point. 
I actually wanted to go back to 

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when you spoke about, how the 
people who get pregnant our 4/5 

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00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,400
human because they're sort of 
taking one fists of their organs

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00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,100
and controlling them, their 
reproductive organs. 

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00:18:55,100 --> 00:18:57,900
But really, we have to start 
understanding how the 

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00:18:57,900 --> 00:18:59,900
reproductive organs are part of 
the whole. 

271
00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:03,200
I think the same is true for 
Reproductive Justice, right? 

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00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,700
Reproductive Justice is also 
indivisible from all other forms

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00:19:06,700 --> 00:19:11,900
of justice and all other forms 
of the types of integrated 

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00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:13,900
support systems. 
We need to make conditions 

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00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:17,300
conducive to life on the earth 
that we live on. 

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00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,400
And so I just want to start by 
saying that the right to decide 

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whether or when to have a child 
is essential for social economic

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00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,700
and Racial equality reproductive
autonomy and the right to 

279
00:19:28,700 --> 00:19:33,800
determine our own Futures. 
And that when abortion care is 

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00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:37,800
as accessible individuals and 
families and their communities, 

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00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,900
really Thrive and it's the right
to maintain bodily autonomy. 

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00:19:41,900 --> 00:19:45,000
And what I really want to talk 
about Today is the ways that 

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00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,200
going forward, we have to start 
really integrating the idea of 

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00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:51,400
bodily and digital autonomy 
together. 

285
00:19:51,700 --> 00:19:54,300
And there's many people out 
there who've been sort of saying

286
00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:57,200
this for a long time. 
But going forward, we have to 

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00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,300
think of our digital devices in 
the data that they are leaving 

288
00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:04,200
everywhere to be vacuumed up. 
We have to start thinking of 

289
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,300
those things as extensions of us
and extensions of what can 

290
00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:11,800
become modified from us. 
And therefore we have to really 

291
00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,000
embrace the idea that in order 
Order to have bodily autonomy. 

292
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,000
We also have to have more 
control and ownership over the 

293
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,600
data that is being extracted 
from us, not just to create 

294
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,600
things that advertise the right,
you know, yoga pants back to us.

295
00:20:26,900 --> 00:20:31,400
But also realize that the data 
is being extracted from us so 

296
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:35,500
that other kinds of Corporations
can create tools based on our 

297
00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:39,700
data that they then sell to 
governments to use against us 

298
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,500
like all of the biometric 
technology, the surveillance 

299
00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:44,600
technology. 
And many other things. 

300
00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:48,200
And, you know, then when we try 
to find out about how those 

301
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,500
tools work, they call it, Trade 
Secrets, and the combination, 

302
00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:54,900
the really toxic triple threat 
of police secrecy, corporate, 

303
00:20:54,900 --> 00:20:59,000
secrecy and algorithmic, secrecy
together means that the 

304
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,500
landscape of the world we're 
living in in terms of the 

305
00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:05,600
digital tools and their ability 
to take information from us. 

306
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,000
They're very sophisticated in a 
way that they definitely were 

307
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:14,100
not before the 1970s, right? 
I mean all Ready in just the 

308
00:21:14,100 --> 00:21:17,800
days after the release of this, 
by political of the news of the,

309
00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:19,800
what the Supreme Court is 
planning to do state 

310
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,800
legislatures and governors, 
they've already signed bills 

311
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:23,900
this week. 
Yes. 

312
00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:28,000
Regarding the abortion pill. 
That if you even attempt to mail

313
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:32,400
it to a friend, or a family 
member, you risk being arrested 

314
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:36,100
the criminalized economy. 
Wow, just from what I saw in 

315
00:21:36,100 --> 00:21:38,700
these bills and these things 
that they plan on doing in these

316
00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:43,000
states of collecting information
surveillance. 

317
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,500
They want to know who's even 
thinking about having an 

318
00:21:45,500 --> 00:21:47,600
abortion. 
We will you just explain some of

319
00:21:47,608 --> 00:21:51,800
this because when I heard you on
CNN I just I had not thought 

320
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,700
about just how deep of a dive 
this is going to be on the part 

321
00:21:55,700 --> 00:21:59,500
of our so-called law enforcement
especially in communities that 

322
00:21:59,500 --> 00:22:03,300
are poor are of color and the 
way you described it it wasn't 

323
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,300
it wasn't like you were trying 
to whip everybody. 

324
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,000
Hey, make sure you go vote this 
November you were just plainly 

325
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,600
stating the facts that you have 
spent years researching, and 

326
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:15,900
advocating. 
Against or for can I just just 

327
00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:18,300
turn it over to you and just 
have you explain just how 

328
00:22:18,300 --> 00:22:21,100
serious this is. 
And that it already is it's not 

329
00:22:21,100 --> 00:22:23,600
something that is going to 
happen in a few months or a few 

330
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,000
years. 
That's right. 

331
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,200
That's right. 
It is the future that is here. 

332
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,400
And the thing that I really want
to emphasize is that while this 

333
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,100
feels new because the leak this 
week, really electrified the way

334
00:22:35,100 --> 00:22:38,200
that we're all paying attention 
to this but it doesn't make it 

335
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,600
new. 
This is actually a trend that's 

336
00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,000
increasingly been happening 
since Was an 11 anti-abortion, 

337
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,900
lawmakers have pushed more than 
500 restrictive, laws, through 

338
00:22:48,900 --> 00:22:52,300
state legislatures, that make 
abortion difficult and sometimes

339
00:22:52,300 --> 00:22:56,200
impossible to access. 
And before that, there's a long 

340
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:01,100
history, the Hyde Amendment Etc 
of the ability to financially 

341
00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:04,400
access abortion was prohibitive 
for black women and a lot of 

342
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,300
other indigenous women and 
people from communities of color

343
00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:11,100
who were pregnant and seeking 
some option to terminate. 

344
00:23:11,300 --> 00:23:14,600
And so this is not new. 
New, the national advocates, for

345
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:16,200
pregnant women and 
organizations. 

346
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,200
Like if one, how have actually 
been documenting and 

347
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,700
broadcasting to us for a long 
time, that pregnant people have 

348
00:23:22,700 --> 00:23:26,900
been charged with murder for 
conduct related to or 

349
00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:29,100
accusations related to the 
termination of their 

350
00:23:29,100 --> 00:23:31,300
pregnancies. 
This is happening, there is a 

351
00:23:31,308 --> 00:23:35,400
woman in Indiana who was charged
in 2015. 

352
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:39,600
I believe and another woman in 
Mississippi in 2017, who was 

353
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,300
charged for murder when she 
arrived at the hospital with a 

354
00:23:42,308 --> 00:23:45,500
stillborn fetus. 
This has happened, their digital

355
00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:50,100
devices were searched in their 
criminal cases because police 

356
00:23:50,100 --> 00:23:53,700
were able to get into the device
and do keyword searches that 

357
00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:55,900
helped them. 
Find the information about that 

358
00:23:55,900 --> 00:23:58,600
text message to a friend that's 
like, hey, I'm scared and I 

359
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,900
think I'm going to try to 
terminate this pregnancy. 

360
00:24:01,100 --> 00:24:04,500
It was really basic types of 
information that we're all 

361
00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:07,400
co-creating with our digital 
devices every day. 

362
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,300
And that leaves a really strong 
trail of evidence of intent, 

363
00:24:12,300 --> 00:24:17,500
that Tutors really treat as 
precious when they have a case 

364
00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:20,500
where otherwise the only 
evidence is that a woman 

365
00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:23,100
appeared in a hospital with a 
miscarriage. 

366
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,100
And I don't want to say that in 
any way, we should not be able 

367
00:24:27,100 --> 00:24:30,400
to use these digital tools. 
I'm not anti-technology, I love 

368
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:31,400
it. 
I think that it's really 

369
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,200
powerful but we have to realize 
that it's more of a friend of me

370
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:37,900
than a friend. 
Because at the moment, we have 

371
00:24:37,900 --> 00:24:43,100
zero control over how our data 
is extracted collected. 

372
00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:47,900
Needed and sold specifically to 
law enforcement that then, you 

373
00:24:47,900 --> 00:24:51,100
know, Target us with it. 
But we can't find out about that

374
00:24:51,100 --> 00:24:53,100
because it was created by a 
corporation. 

375
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,100
So the police have the they have
the means and they have there 

376
00:24:57,100 --> 00:25:00,000
are people within police 
departments that know exactly 

377
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:01,600
how to find stuff in a way that 
you are. 

378
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:06,100
I don't know if you let me 
borrow your phone or you take 

379
00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:09,800
mine, it would take me hours 
probably to yes, no one wants to

380
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,900
do that or and no one walks 
through that. 

381
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,900
So but the police These are 
different, they have tools, you 

382
00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:20,100
know and this is not done under 
the circumstances conducive to 

383
00:25:20,100 --> 00:25:23,500
consent building, right? 
This is done, typically under 

384
00:25:23,500 --> 00:25:26,200
circumstances where someone 
feels like they are the subject 

385
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,600
of an investigation even if 
they're not officially calling 

386
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,100
it that or if it's happening in 
a hospital instead of a 

387
00:25:32,100 --> 00:25:34,600
Precinct. 
If there's a dynamic where the 

388
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,500
police are like, hey, you don't 
mind if I look through your 

389
00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:41,500
phone right, and that lands on 
someone and like I have to do 

390
00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:44,400
that in order to comply to get 
out of It's because people when 

391
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,300
they're in that crisis mode, in 
that Dynamic, with an authority 

392
00:25:47,300 --> 00:25:49,300
figure who has a gun on their 
hip. 

393
00:25:49,500 --> 00:25:53,600
There are just not in a space of
mind to try to critically 

394
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,200
analyze. 
What, you know, what they could 

395
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,000
possibly mean by, hey, can I 
have your phone for a second? 

396
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,600
Because we think our phones are 
locked. 

397
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,400
Our phones are difficult to 
search through in that. 

398
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,300
Sort of way, you have to, like, 
wear your thumb pads out 

399
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,800
scrolling so deeply to try to 
find some nugget. 

400
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,100
That's how we think about it, 
because that's how we interact 

401
00:26:12,100 --> 00:26:14,500
with our phones. 
We interact with them. 

402
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:17,100
Like what we see on them is what
there is, but there is 

403
00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:19,200
mountains. 
There can be months and years of

404
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,600
data, depending on your settings
about where you've been about, 

405
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,300
who you are in contact with 
about what you search for on the

406
00:26:25,300 --> 00:26:28,800
internet and about what websites
you visited. 

407
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:33,200
And if you do anything, in 
addition to that, like have apps

408
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,900
that your diligently tracking, 
your menstrual cycle and all of 

409
00:26:36,900 --> 00:26:41,200
your symptoms around it, then 
that is just more data that you 

410
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,800
are gifting out into the That is
fear. 

411
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,400
That's being you know, sucked up
by data Brokers and traded. 

412
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:53,400
And you can bet that if there is
a market for law enforcement to 

413
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:57,800
investigate people for whether 
they have ever formed an intent 

414
00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:01,100
to have an abortion or to 
terminate their pregnancy, there

415
00:27:01,100 --> 00:27:04,000
is going to be companies that 
try to fill those markets and 

416
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,600
create tools based on our data. 
That is sold to law enforcement 

417
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,600
to help them investigate those. 
Because we know that about every

418
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,300
other type of crime, whether 
it's sex, It's work or its 

419
00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:16,100
drugs. 
Everything everything that 

420
00:27:16,100 --> 00:27:21,600
relies on the dark web to sort 
of move around, and now, we're 

421
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,100
also talking about gender 
affirming, health care and 

422
00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:27,200
medical marijuana, and and many 
other things, right? 

423
00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:31,800
This is not just about, you 
know, it is absolutely In This 

424
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:35,200
Moment all about abortion. 
However, it is also going to 

425
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,600
impact many more people in many 
more spaces. 

426
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,800
And, yes, that sounds like 
gloomy and awful and it is. 

427
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,900
But it is also a really A good 
moment for solidarity. 

428
00:27:45,500 --> 00:27:48,900
Well yeah, we need to know this 
Cynthia because if we're 

429
00:27:48,900 --> 00:27:52,100
ignorant for in the dark about 
it or not, going to be able to 

430
00:27:52,100 --> 00:27:54,800
fight it and it'll be too late. 
We need to do something about 

431
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,400
this years ago. 
Another example is, I mean, a 

432
00:27:57,408 --> 00:28:02,100
couple friends of mine who after
9/11 arab-americans very afraid 

433
00:28:02,100 --> 00:28:06,000
to go and look up anything about
never use the word terrorism, 

434
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,300
never use, you know. 
Yes, anything and all they 

435
00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:11,000
wanted to do was find out what's
going on. 

436
00:28:11,700 --> 00:28:13,400
That's it. 
I just wanted to find What's 

437
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,400
going on, not breaking any laws 
and all of a sudden they get a 

438
00:28:16,408 --> 00:28:17,900
knock at the door. 
Yep. 

439
00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:19,300
You just want to ask a few 
questions. 

440
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,900
Yeah, don't worry. 
Can we come in, you know, you 

441
00:28:22,900 --> 00:28:24,400
got to give him permission to 
come in because they don't have 

442
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,900
a warrant in fact for the cops 
to take your phone and to do a 

443
00:28:27,908 --> 00:28:30,400
search in your phone, don't they
have to have a warrant. 

444
00:28:30,500 --> 00:28:34,400
There's only one state where 
police are required to get a 

445
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:38,400
warrant to get into your digital
device and that's in Michigan. 

446
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,600
And the reason that they made 
the warrant requirement is, That

447
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:48,200
I think it was recognized. 
People cannot conceive of the 

448
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,800
amount of consent that they are 
granting to police when they 

449
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,200
hand their device over. 
And by the way, it's not just 

450
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:58,100
police who have these digital 
forensic extraction tools. 

451
00:28:58,100 --> 00:29:02,400
It's also immigration agents and
it is public schools and many 

452
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,200
other state agencies, use them 
and are equipped with them. 

453
00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:08,600
And by the way, they are quite 
expensive. 

454
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,900
And by the way, you have to hire
someone to run them and also 

455
00:29:11,900 --> 00:29:14,300
update them every time. 
Any device that you want to 

456
00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:18,000
analyze is going to be updated, 
so it's an expensive Endeavor. 

457
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:21,200
So you can be sure that they 
don't just Reserve these tools 

458
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:23,300
for the moments. 
When they have a serious violent

459
00:29:23,300 --> 00:29:27,800
felony, they use them all the 
time on every case where they 

460
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,300
can use them, and there's a tech
policy organization called 

461
00:29:31,300 --> 00:29:34,200
upturn. 
That has issued a fantastic 

462
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,600
report called Mass extraction, 
about the depth and the breadth 

463
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:43,700
of the they call it the mobile 
device forensic tool and The 

464
00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:47,500
amount of them that there are 
out in the country how 

465
00:29:47,500 --> 00:29:52,300
unregulated they are and how 
expansive their uses without any

466
00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:54,900
restriction. 
So, for example, in Wisconsin, 

467
00:29:54,900 --> 00:29:59,800
recently there was actually a 
case where a man's phone has. 

468
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:04,300
Digital device was extracted for
an investigation of a crime. 

469
00:30:04,300 --> 00:30:09,900
That happened in County a and he
consented to allowing it to be 

470
00:30:09,900 --> 00:30:13,000
used for that purpose and they 
extracted the information. 

471
00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:15,900
And nothing happens. 
He's not arrested three months 

472
00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:19,400
ago by and a different sheriff's
department and a different 

473
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,200
County investigating a different
crime. 

474
00:30:22,900 --> 00:30:27,000
The court said it was allowed to
use the data from the other 

475
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,800
case, in that new case, even 
though that was not the purpose 

476
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:35,300
that he submitted it for. 
And so, it's really important to

477
00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:39,100
understand, not only like, how 
much of this Hardware there is 

478
00:30:39,100 --> 00:30:43,000
out there but also how much 
digital evidence they have 

479
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:49,200
Already taken how they are. 
Just storing it somewhere and 

480
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,500
they have at least from their 
perspective. 

481
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,200
No restrictions on how they're 
allowed to share it and use it. 

482
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,900
So just amazing. 
I'm a little stunned by the fact

483
00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:03,400
that Michigan is the only state 
that actually requires a search 

484
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,100
warrant when it comes to the 
phone. 

485
00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:08,400
Why Michigan? 
Amazing. 

486
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,900
Advocates. 
There's the Detroit Community 

487
00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:15,200
Technology. 
Act and other really fantastic 

488
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:19,200
advocates in Detroit that have 
been organizing and really 

489
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:23,100
educating everyone about what 
the meaning of digital autonomy 

490
00:31:23,100 --> 00:31:26,300
is and how we have to start 
insisting on more ownership of 

491
00:31:26,300 --> 00:31:29,800
our digital information. 
So that when it's used to impact

492
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,600
our lives, with these tools that
we interact with on a daily 

493
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,900
basis because they've been set 
up to surveil people, right? 

494
00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:38,100
We need to know how they were 
made. 

495
00:31:38,100 --> 00:31:39,100
What are they supposed to be 
doing? 

496
00:31:39,100 --> 00:31:43,500
How much is being spent on them?
And between the opacity City of 

497
00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:47,900
the procurement process and 
other instruments of corporate 

498
00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:50,700
secrecy like Trade Secrets and 
the expansion of intellectual 

499
00:31:50,700 --> 00:31:53,300
property. 
We have a situation where it's 

500
00:31:53,300 --> 00:31:57,300
going to be more and more 
difficult for us to insist on 

501
00:31:57,300 --> 00:32:00,800
information that we need in 
order to truly understand how 

502
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,300
our government is involved in 
controlling us. 

503
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,300
So what you're saying is that 
the police have these devices 

504
00:32:08,100 --> 00:32:11,500
search and Discovery devices, 
whatever polite name that they 

505
00:32:11,500 --> 00:32:14,000
gave it and they can take that. 
That and they can take your 

506
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,600
phone, can they do something? 
Just as simple as search for any

507
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,300
time you might have typed in the
word abortion. 

508
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:24,800
Yes they can do keyword searches
on your digital device. 

509
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,900
So I've seen these printouts 
before. 

510
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:32,100
There are 2,000 page PDF 
sometimes and you type in a 

511
00:32:32,108 --> 00:32:35,500
keyword and it finds every time 
that word was used. 

512
00:32:35,500 --> 00:32:38,600
Whether it was in a text message
or on your calendar or somewhere

513
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,900
else within the data that's 
collected by your phone, you 

514
00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:46,300
know the newer Is also give you 
options like image searches or 

515
00:32:46,500 --> 00:32:49,300
arrange it by social network. 
Arrange it in chronological 

516
00:32:49,300 --> 00:32:51,900
order map. 
It onto a geographic map, map, 

517
00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:55,300
it onto a social network. 
There's new capabilities. 

518
00:32:55,300 --> 00:32:58,300
And there's different levels of 
fanciness with the types of 

519
00:32:58,300 --> 00:33:00,400
instruments that are extracting 
the information. 

520
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,900
But can you do a keyword search 
for abortion? 

521
00:33:02,900 --> 00:33:06,400
Hell yeah. 
Wow, somebody wrote me after I 

522
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,600
posted my subset column and 
said, no Mike. 

523
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:10,900
You know, you're getting a 
little, you know, worked up 

524
00:33:10,900 --> 00:33:13,100
here. 
It's only the 26 states that Are

525
00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:17,300
going to immediately, you know, 
ban abortion like only 26. 

526
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,500
Okay. 
But yeah, but the other 24, 

527
00:33:20,500 --> 00:33:22,900
whatever they're going to, you 
know, fight this and they're 

528
00:33:22,900 --> 00:33:24,600
going to make it their states 
available. 

529
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:28,700
I wrote the person back and I 
said just because the news is 

530
00:33:28,700 --> 00:33:31,200
telling you this week, that well
it's going to be still legal in 

531
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,300
20. 
You don't have any idea what's 

532
00:33:33,300 --> 00:33:35,800
going on here? 
And maybe neither do I because 

533
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,900
things can happen really quick 
quicker than you think. 

534
00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:41,600
And again, just to reference the
handmaid's tale. 

535
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,100
Again, that scene where Couple 
of friends. 

536
00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:46,700
Couple women were having a 
coffee in a coffee shop and they

537
00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:49,300
go to pay for it with a credit 
card and all of a sudden she 

538
00:33:49,300 --> 00:33:53,500
can't she can't because they've 
women no longer can use their 

539
00:33:53,500 --> 00:33:55,500
credit cards or have a credit 
card without their husbands 

540
00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:00,600
permission and later main 
character is thinking back, 

541
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,200
trying to remember, when did the
slow drip? 

542
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,200
Drip, drip start, she's looking 
at the wall of paper, newspaper 

543
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,100
clippings, right? 
Yes, yes, yeah. 

544
00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:12,199
I know, I always think of that 
moment to because that's the 

545
00:34:12,199 --> 00:34:15,400
moment where, Where she's 
looking back in time from the 

546
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,800
future and being like, holy 
shit. 

547
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,300
There was the intervention there
was through the Looking Glass 

548
00:34:20,300 --> 00:34:22,600
right there. 
Was that moment that we had, 

549
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,900
where we should have seen it, 
because it was being broadcast 

550
00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:27,500
to us, and we knew we were 
smart. 

551
00:34:27,500 --> 00:34:30,400
So why didn't we see it? 
Because it's been hidden from us

552
00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:35,600
because because it's it's been 
very subtly exposed, right? 

553
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,300
And I think we're also raised to
believe in the end. 

554
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,600
The narrative continues to be 
pushed on us. 

555
00:34:40,699 --> 00:34:46,100
Well, Mike, The United States of
America, it's not going to be 

556
00:34:46,100 --> 00:34:50,000
like that, not going to get that
bad, it's the United States and 

557
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,600
of course you know again for 
those of us who grew up in a 

558
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:57,400
different era, maybe Vietnam as 
I mentioned earlier and as I've 

559
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,900
we've talked about this on the 
podcast before the nine boys 

560
00:35:00,900 --> 00:35:03,700
from my high school that came 
back in a box. 

561
00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:08,500
I learned very early that stuff 
can happen and it can happen 

562
00:35:08,500 --> 00:35:12,900
quick and before you know it I 
just worry Amanda. 

563
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,300
Don't know what your experience 
has been this last week but I 

564
00:35:15,300 --> 00:35:18,900
worry about anybody who who 
don't know how to put this. 

565
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,500
Somebody said to me they need we
need an emoji with a hair on 

566
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:25,800
fire. 
We need to all be in the street,

567
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,100
we're running down the street 
with her hair on fire because do

568
00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:32,900
not believe this is just well, 
it's just one thing and they'll 

569
00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:35,400
fix some of this. 
They're not going to stop women 

570
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,600
who have been raped or incest 
or, you know, I just know. 

571
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:42,100
It won't get that bad, but I 
think that's a dangerous way to 

572
00:35:42,100 --> 00:35:43,200
think. 
And I don't mean you've Be 

573
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,300
paranoid or, you know whatever. 
I think you just need to 

574
00:35:46,300 --> 00:35:49,100
realize. 
Yeah, you do live in the United 

575
00:35:49,100 --> 00:35:50,400
States of America. 
Yes. 

576
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,600
And you need to be very very 
aware and thank God. 

577
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,300
We do still have some tools 
called tools of democracy 

578
00:35:57,300 --> 00:35:59,800
because I don't want to believe 
that the other side in this is 

579
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,700
going to win this. 
They have to be defeated. 

580
00:36:01,700 --> 00:36:03,700
That's right. 
There are things that we can do 

581
00:36:03,700 --> 00:36:06,600
to minimize the exposure that 
our data has. 

582
00:36:07,100 --> 00:36:10,900
And we have the tools that we 
can learn and we can share with 

583
00:36:10,900 --> 00:36:12,800
our communities and help protect
each. 

584
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,400
Other the more that we think 
about digital safety as a 

585
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,100
community practice and not just 
like well what did they want 

586
00:36:19,100 --> 00:36:21,500
with my information or what do 
they want from my data? 

587
00:36:21,700 --> 00:36:24,200
I'm I haven't committed any 
crime but it's not just about 

588
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:25,700
you. 
It's about you the safety of 

589
00:36:25,700 --> 00:36:30,200
your community and your network 
and how it you might be a 

590
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,500
Connecting Point for the 
community that you're trying to 

591
00:36:32,508 --> 00:36:35,100
keep safe. 
And so the more that we are able

592
00:36:35,100 --> 00:36:37,600
to think about these things 
together in an integrated way 

593
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,500
and like I said there's lots of 
bodies of work of already 

594
00:36:41,500 --> 00:36:45,300
building around this in this. 
In this idea, like Professor 

595
00:36:45,300 --> 00:36:48,600
ruhub Benjamin's work around 
informed refusal and really 

596
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:52,400
making that the default. 
So that there's a true 

597
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:58,000
obligation to engage and inform,
and default to no, you cannot 

598
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:03,400
have my data, it's mine and I 
can withhold it or perhaps it 

599
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,900
can be in another way some 
source for you that you can use.

600
00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:11,600
But it's a resource that you can
decide how to deploy or how not 

601
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,000
to according to Your values and 
I think that like one of the 

602
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,600
values is is just like not 
leaving people behind. 

603
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:21,900
And in any way that this is a 
moment where we can actually 

604
00:37:21,900 --> 00:37:24,700
expansively think about 
solidarity and cross movement 

605
00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:30,000
learning between the need to be 
able to use technology tools to 

606
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,300
access information about 
abortion. 

607
00:37:32,300 --> 00:37:34,900
We also need it to access 
information about gender, 

608
00:37:34,900 --> 00:37:37,500
affirming care. 
And in every other type of 

609
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:40,200
criminal eyes De Cana me, where 
the thing that has been 

610
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,800
criminalized is related to our 
ability, to take care of 

611
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:43,200
ourselves. 
Else? 

612
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,800
Whether it's medical marijuana 
or anything else, right? 

613
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:51,100
Like this is about our ability 
to maintain both bodily and 

614
00:37:51,100 --> 00:37:54,400
digital autonomy together. 
What do we need to take our 

615
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,300
heads out of the sand here, 
especially as it regards to 

616
00:37:57,300 --> 00:38:02,300
abortion as Elisabeth Moss says.
In that scene, we were not awake

617
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:04,700
and then she says, but I'm awake
now. 

618
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,300
Yeah but I don't want to win. 
I don't want to wait till that 

619
00:38:07,300 --> 00:38:10,600
moment that were finally awake. 
I think that needs to happen 

620
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,800
quickly. 
Yeah, what do we do here? 

621
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,600
Now, well first we have to do 
oppression management, right? 

622
00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,100
We have to use the tools that we
have, like, don't hand over your

623
00:38:20,100 --> 00:38:23,900
phone to police, or to a social 
worker to a case worker or 

624
00:38:23,900 --> 00:38:28,100
someone who might handed over to
law enforcement, treat it like 

625
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:29,700
it's an extension of you treat 
it. 

626
00:38:29,700 --> 00:38:32,600
Like if you handed it over it 
would incriminate you treat it 

627
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,700
that way whether or not that is 
true. 

628
00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:38,600
Use encrypted Communications. 
Send your mother, a Happy 

629
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,600
Mother's Day message on Signal 
and get used to really casually 

630
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,400
using It having your contacts, 
they're having it open being 

631
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,300
familiar with how it works and 
same thing for anti 

632
00:38:49,300 --> 00:38:52,900
fingerprinting browsers. 
So that if you ever are in 

633
00:38:52,900 --> 00:38:56,600
crisis mode, or if anyone in 
your network is ever in crisis 

634
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:01,500
mode, you have the tools already
set up that will never guarantee

635
00:39:01,500 --> 00:39:05,800
you complete protection, but 
they will shrink the amount of 

636
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,500
surface area that your data 
footprint is leaving behind you.

637
00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:14,900
And with that, they can really 
Make them have to either, you 

638
00:39:14,900 --> 00:39:20,500
know, hack for it or work for it
or litigate for it or pay for 

639
00:39:20,500 --> 00:39:23,000
it. 
And the most that we can do in 

640
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,200
this oppression management 
context in this inside of a 

641
00:39:26,207 --> 00:39:30,000
crisis, is that we can try to 
spread these tools that just 

642
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,200
protect each other, but it 
doesn't solve the problem and 

643
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,700
the problem is that we're 
criminalizing economies of care 

644
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,400
the other. 
You know, problem is that we're 

645
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,800
doing that inside of a system of
very sophisticated. 

646
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:46,400
Data surveillance where we are 
co-creating information about 

647
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,400
ourselves but we are not able to
retain any control over it. 

648
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,700
I mean, I've never given Apple 
my fingerprint. 

649
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,600
I can take the time to type in. 
What the password is to get 

650
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,500
online. 
I try to tell people, don't give

651
00:39:59,500 --> 00:40:01,100
them your fingerprints really. 
Yeah. 

652
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:03,800
Yeah, I know. 
It's it's, it's gifting them 

653
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,700
that, right? 
Like, it's tying a bow around 

654
00:40:06,700 --> 00:40:09,900
it, your yourself or a part of 
yourself and giving it away for 

655
00:40:09,900 --> 00:40:13,100
free, which if that's your 
choice, that's fantastic and And

656
00:40:13,100 --> 00:40:16,400
all power to you but just know 
that the potential consequences 

657
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,000
of the choices. 
So what do we do? 

658
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,400
We get together right? 
Like we like now yeah we teach 

659
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:27,800
each other and we think about 
ways to organize and build power

660
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:32,300
that helps us. 
Do it in collaboration, do it 

661
00:40:32,300 --> 00:40:35,900
out loud. 
Imagine and like, really try to 

662
00:40:35,900 --> 00:40:40,100
create a Visionary, awareness, 
beyond what is possible. 

663
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:44,500
I want to, like Point, 
everyone's Attention to if when 

664
00:40:44,500 --> 00:40:48,300
and how and their reproducible 
defense fund that covers bail 

665
00:40:48,300 --> 00:40:51,800
and fun defense and the Repro 
legal help line, that provides 

666
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,500
free, confidential Legal 
Information and advice. 

667
00:40:54,700 --> 00:40:57,200
I've heard of this group, can 
you explain a little more who 

668
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,900
they are, what they do? 
Because I think a lot of people 

669
00:40:59,900 --> 00:41:02,900
don't know that there already 
are groups that have been formed

670
00:41:02,900 --> 00:41:05,300
long before. 
Now in anticipation of this 

671
00:41:05,300 --> 00:41:08,900
moment, if went out a fantastic 
organization that transforms the

672
00:41:08,908 --> 00:41:12,200
law and policy landscape, I'm 
reading from there who we are 

673
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,300
page. 
Through advocacy support and 

674
00:41:15,300 --> 00:41:19,600
organizing so that all people 
have the power to determine if 

675
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,400
when and how to define create 
and sustain families, with 

676
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,400
dignity and to actualize, 
sexual, and reproductive 

677
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,400
well-being on their own terms 
and they are fabulous. 

678
00:41:29,700 --> 00:41:33,100
Are they Nationwide or yes? 
So we can any of us can go on 

679
00:41:33,100 --> 00:41:36,300
Google or whatever type in if 
when how right yeah I would 

680
00:41:36,300 --> 00:41:41,200
recommend you know and 
fingerprinting browser maybe 

681
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,600
instead. 
Oh yeah Google Look them up. 

682
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:46,700
And this is this emphasizes the 
problem. 

683
00:41:46,900 --> 00:41:50,500
We need these tools, right? 
Like in this segment on CNN, 

684
00:41:50,900 --> 00:41:55,600
yesterday at the closing of my 
co-panelists remarks, she listed

685
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,900
a ton of websites, right? 
Which just speaks to like, this 

686
00:41:58,900 --> 00:42:03,100
is how we communicate. 
Of course, that's how we share 

687
00:42:03,100 --> 00:42:08,700
resources, however, by using the
tools that they have given us 

688
00:42:08,900 --> 00:42:11,600
and, you know, always be aware 
of the tools they give you my 

689
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:17,200
father used to say, You have to 
know what kind of Trail you're 

690
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:20,500
leaving behind you, and there 
are steps that you can use to 

691
00:42:20,500 --> 00:42:22,400
protect you. 
Like I said, just shrink the 

692
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,600
footprint even though you can't 
erase it. 

693
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,800
You can't guarantee it's gone. 
But you can take some steps for 

694
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,400
protection in the meantime. 
And also we've got to get 

695
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,300
together and really start 
figuring out how we want to be 

696
00:42:35,300 --> 00:42:40,000
able to protect ourselves now, 
and also protect this place so 

697
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,700
that it will be here for our 
kids, right? 

698
00:42:43,300 --> 00:42:46,200
Yes, you mentioned a safer 
browser. 

699
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,000
What would a safer browser be 
other than Google? 

700
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,800
I personally use DuckDuckGo. 
For example, Firefox is another 

701
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,500
example. 
You know, the ones you can. 

702
00:42:57,500 --> 00:42:59,900
I encourage people rather than 
being like this one, this one. 

703
00:42:59,900 --> 00:43:02,300
And this one. 
I really encourage people to try

704
00:43:02,300 --> 00:43:05,500
to get familiar with just going 
to the terms of service and 

705
00:43:05,500 --> 00:43:08,500
starting to educate yourselves 
about the differences between 

706
00:43:08,500 --> 00:43:13,100
the tools were using and anytime
before you download an app, Try 

707
00:43:13,100 --> 00:43:16,900
to get information about what 
kind of data they're extracting 

708
00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:20,900
from you when you're using it. 
So that you're constantly just 

709
00:43:20,900 --> 00:43:23,000
treating. 
Like I said, your, your phone is

710
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,200
your Frenemy, not your friends, 
just like know what you want to 

711
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,400
use it for but also like, know 
what you want to keep from it 

712
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,500
because it's your Frenemy, it's 
not your friend free rights, 

713
00:43:32,500 --> 00:43:34,600
right? 
Few years ago, somebody made a 

714
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,100
documentary a call. 
I think that was the title terms

715
00:43:37,100 --> 00:43:38,400
of service. 
Yes. 

716
00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,600
If you have a chance, I'm sure 
you can find it online. 

717
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,800
But it's like that thing. 
You always Check without ever 

718
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,200
reading it. 
If you after you watch this this

719
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,900
movie you're going to go. 
I've got to read this from now 

720
00:43:48,900 --> 00:43:51,300
on. 
This is scary stuff here. 

721
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,300
But you also mention signal, 
tell people, especially people 

722
00:43:54,300 --> 00:43:58,200
who are not familiar with 
signal, what that is and why 

723
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,800
that's maybe a bit better than 
the normal way of communicating 

724
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:06,200
signal is end-to-end encrypted. 
And again there's a few 

725
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,100
different apps that are 
promising. 

726
00:44:08,100 --> 00:44:11,900
Encryption just try to 
familiarize yourself. 

727
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:15,100
Find Nation about what they're 
actually doing. 

728
00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:18,400
If you have to turn off your 
side, encryption, if the person 

729
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:21,300
that you're communicating with 
also has to if you have to tell 

730
00:44:21,300 --> 00:44:24,100
them that before you communicate
Etc, just like know how these 

731
00:44:24,100 --> 00:44:26,500
things work. 
And let's all start to build 

732
00:44:26,500 --> 00:44:28,800
tools that help each other 
understand this stuff. 

733
00:44:29,100 --> 00:44:32,200
I think there's a huge energy 
barrier because people just feel

734
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,900
generally intimidated and then 
they don't make it easy, right? 

735
00:44:34,900 --> 00:44:38,800
We know this from right other 
experiments with trying to get 

736
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:42,700
informed consent for cookies on 
websites how obnoxious? 

737
00:44:42,900 --> 00:44:46,000
Make it for us to try to engage 
with an understanding about what

738
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,400
they're doing with our data. 
And I think that that's probably

739
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:53,000
intentional because there's not 
an incentive for them, to make 

740
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:57,100
us more educated about what is 
happening and why these tools 

741
00:44:57,100 --> 00:44:59,800
are all giving given to us for 
free, you know. 

742
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,300
And this is a common saying that
many other people have said 

743
00:45:02,300 --> 00:45:05,300
before me, if it's free, you are
the product. 

744
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,800
And we have to understand that 
as technology tools expand from 

745
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,400
just being about collecting our 
data to use an Heisman so that 

746
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,600
Target things back to us. 
There are entire cities that are

747
00:45:16,607 --> 00:45:20,500
investing in infrastructures to 
create data extraction tools, 

748
00:45:20,500 --> 00:45:23,600
whether they're Bluetooth 
beacons or other types of data 

749
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:26,800
collection devices. 
It's being referred to as smart 

750
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,600
cities, right? 
But what we know about the ways 

751
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,700
that these expansions are 
happening is just the way that 

752
00:45:32,700 --> 00:45:35,600
they've taken our data to build 
things to advertise to us. 

753
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,500
They're also taking our data to 
build things to advertise to 

754
00:45:38,500 --> 00:45:41,400
these cities, and taking the 
data from the city. 

755
00:45:41,500 --> 00:45:44,400
Infrastructures and using, Not 
to sell other cities things. 

756
00:45:44,700 --> 00:45:47,800
And so we know that there's a 
deep market and we know that 

757
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,700
there is a very advanced 
technology but just because it's

758
00:45:50,700 --> 00:45:53,000
Advanced, I don't think means 
it's progress. 

759
00:45:53,500 --> 00:45:56,600
And so I think we just need to 
be more engaged in how we really

760
00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,800
want technology to help us 
progress and not just, you know,

761
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:04,500
serving this corporate drumbeat.
They're going to need this 

762
00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:06,800
technology in their perfect 
world. 

763
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,800
They're not thinking, 26 states 
only where it's going to be 

764
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,700
illegal to get an abortion. 
They have a whole scope. 

765
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:16,200
Hope these different right-wing 
groups of what they're hoping to

766
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:17,400
do. 
They're not going to be 

767
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,100
satisfied to all 50 states are 
made this way to where it will 

768
00:46:21,100 --> 00:46:24,000
be illegal to even think about 
going to Canada or Mexico to 

769
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:25,600
terminate a pregnancy. 
That's right. 

770
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,600
They're going to figure out some
way if they get the seats that 

771
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,400
they need in Congress in the 
Senate. 

772
00:46:30,500 --> 00:46:33,300
So we can't mail a morning-after
pill or anything out to each 

773
00:46:33,300 --> 00:46:36,000
other. 
Yes, you can't deliver it across

774
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,000
state lines to a friend, a 
family member. 

775
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,000
So if you're wondering like, why
are we focused on the 

776
00:46:40,500 --> 00:46:44,000
surveillance day? 
It's that they That doesn't want

777
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,700
to let women have control over 
their own lives, and bodies. 

778
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,800
They are going to work very hard
and, you know, they work hard, 

779
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,600
they work harder than we do. 
And that's just I felt this way 

780
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,900
for a long time that they they 
are Relentless. 

781
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,700
They're Relentless and they are 
going to look for ways and find 

782
00:47:01,700 --> 00:47:03,500
ways. 
So that any Corner, we think 

783
00:47:03,500 --> 00:47:07,100
we're going to cut in order to 
have our freedom and our going 

784
00:47:07,100 --> 00:47:09,400
to have to worry about putting 
up the wall on the Mexican 

785
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:10,900
border. 
They're going to put up legal 

786
00:47:10,900 --> 00:47:15,400
walls that will Have them 
arresting anybody who is trying 

787
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,500
to get away and believed in 
something different other than a

788
00:47:18,500 --> 00:47:21,700
fertilized egg has a human being
and they've already said I've 

789
00:47:21,700 --> 00:47:24,100
seen them on TV. 
There's so emboldened this week.

790
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,000
Cynthia, yes, up. 
Next in the batter's box. 

791
00:47:27,300 --> 00:47:31,300
Is same-sex marriage? 
Yes, they have a long laundry 

792
00:47:31,300 --> 00:47:32,700
list. 
Yes. 

793
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,400
And I think what you're saying 
is we all need to get wise and 

794
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,100
get smart learn about these 
things that we need to do to 

795
00:47:39,100 --> 00:47:43,000
figure out how to protect our 
privacy and how to have our Come

796
00:47:43,700 --> 00:47:46,000
in right about now. 
Somebody saying well, why aren't

797
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:47,900
you talking about the November 
election? 

798
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:49,800
So I don't know if you want to 
get into that. 

799
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:54,900
But it seems like if we had 
better senators and if we had a 

800
00:47:54,908 --> 00:48:00,100
protected house and if our state
legislators were such that, they

801
00:48:00,100 --> 00:48:02,500
truly represented what the 
American people want. 

802
00:48:02,500 --> 00:48:06,100
Again, 70% of the American 
people do not want to get rid of

803
00:48:06,100 --> 00:48:10,900
Roe v-- Wade, only, 27 percent 
do so, what about electoral 

804
00:48:10,900 --> 00:48:12,700
politics and trying to fix 
things? 

805
00:48:12,700 --> 00:48:16,000
Things that way I actually want 
to bring it back to what you 

806
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:19,700
said about just visioning 
because I think what we have the

807
00:48:19,700 --> 00:48:22,800
opportunity to do and going back
to that moment and handmaid's 

808
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,200
tale, where Elisabeth Moss is 
staring at the newspapers on the

809
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:31,300
wall and she's going back in 
time out of the fantasy future. 

810
00:48:31,300 --> 00:48:35,900
That had been created and she's 
realizing, this is the moment 

811
00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:38,900
and this is a moment, I should 
have focused my mind and tried 

812
00:48:38,900 --> 00:48:43,300
to intervene and I think that 
focusing on our Asians and 

813
00:48:43,300 --> 00:48:47,300
getting really open to the idea 
of thinking about how we can 

814
00:48:47,300 --> 00:48:51,800
create really clear, strong 
solid protections for our bodily

815
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,400
and digital autonomy that don't 
rely on having the right 

816
00:48:55,400 --> 00:49:00,700
constellation of justices, Etc. 
I think that, yes, we need to do

817
00:49:00,700 --> 00:49:04,400
a huge amount of work to prevent
these protections from falling 

818
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,300
to the Wayside, but we also at 
the same time that we're 

819
00:49:08,300 --> 00:49:12,200
thinking about these protections
for now, we also have to think 

820
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:15,500
about Out. 
How do we really ground these 

821
00:49:15,500 --> 00:49:19,000
protections into? 
What we want to see going 

822
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,400
forward in a way that it doesn't
oscillate so drastically based 

823
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,500
on who is in power, right? 
Otherwise it's just going to be 

824
00:49:25,500 --> 00:49:28,200
swinging back and forth. 
We need to get to a place where 

825
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:31,700
if seventy percent of the 
American public wants it this 

826
00:49:31,700 --> 00:49:33,400
way. 
Then that's the way it's going 

827
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,700
to be and those newspapers that 
she's looking on the wall, the 

828
00:49:36,700 --> 00:49:40,200
old newspapers, or she's looking
back at the beginning before 

829
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:42,600
people realized it was too late 
to stop this. 

830
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:46,000
Sort of religious fascist from 
taking over the country. 

831
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:50,900
One of those articles that she's
looking at is I mean y-you look 

832
00:49:50,900 --> 00:49:54,200
at it now. 
This episode was, you know, four

833
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:59,000
years ago but there is a back in
the in the cannon the fictional 

834
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:03,600
story of hameed's to. 
There's a January 6th attack on 

835
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:06,300
Congress. 
I didn't realize that now where 

836
00:50:06,300 --> 00:50:09,600
they go in and she refers in her
we're listening to her thoughts 

837
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,600
basically in her head the her 
words were when they slaughtered

838
00:50:12,700 --> 00:50:15,800
Yes, that should have been the 
moment that we just all had to 

839
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:17,600
take our country back from these
people. 

840
00:50:17,700 --> 00:50:22,500
And but we didn't and it's 
essentially the that piece that 

841
00:50:22,500 --> 00:50:28,600
she refers to in the history of 
the story is unlike January 6th 

842
00:50:29,300 --> 00:50:36,000
2021 where they didn't succeed. 
They were armed, right? 

843
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,400
We have to sit in our own 
fantasy, Futures. 

844
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,300
And not just dwell in, there is 
correct. 

845
00:50:40,300 --> 00:50:43,500
Yes, that is correct. 
And really start to finding with

846
00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:45,300
specificity what that looks 
like. 

847
00:50:45,300 --> 00:50:47,400
What are the protections and 
that future fantasy? 

848
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,400
That we create. 
We co-create and its power with 

849
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,600
and not power over. 
What's yours? 

850
00:50:52,700 --> 00:50:56,400
I mean, when you think of the 
possibility of the future in the

851
00:50:56,400 --> 00:51:00,300
sort of dark place, it could go,
we're not paranoid people, but 

852
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:03,600
we also know the reality of 
things. 

853
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:07,600
I'm just curious, just if you 
don't mind me asking you, the 

854
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,800
thing that keeps you awake at 
night where you wonder or worry 

855
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:15,600
and and you say to yourself and 
what will I do if we get to this

856
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:19,900
point because they are not going
to stop with this one ruling? 

857
00:51:20,100 --> 00:51:24,200
Yeah I mean, look at the Green 
Wave, we can be really excited 

858
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:28,500
and energized by it. 
We can really look at, you know,

859
00:51:28,500 --> 00:51:30,800
what has been happening in 
countries like Ireland in, 

860
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:34,100
Mexico, and Argentina, and get 
inspiration from that. 

861
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,900
That and learn from them. 
Learn how they did their 

862
00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:39,900
messaging and learn how they 
built power troubled times. 

863
00:51:39,900 --> 00:51:42,300
Focus the mind. 
We have to let our minds be 

864
00:51:42,300 --> 00:51:45,900
focused and we have to let them 
sort of be integrated together. 

865
00:51:45,900 --> 00:51:49,100
And I think what we've been 
doing for many years now and 

866
00:51:49,100 --> 00:51:52,500
trying to have a deeper 
understanding of how the 

867
00:51:52,700 --> 00:51:56,400
iterations of harm that are 
caused, are all sort of separate

868
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:59,200
different iterations. 
They all look different 

869
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,200
depending on what historically 
oppressed Community, you're in, 

870
00:52:03,100 --> 00:52:05,900
it's important to Stand the 
intersections, and all of the 

871
00:52:05,900 --> 00:52:10,000
different ways that those harms 
make people suffer so that we 

872
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:13,000
can know how to better protect 
everybody and not leave anybody 

873
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:16,300
behind. 
We can really ground what we 

874
00:52:16,300 --> 00:52:19,100
want to do in those types of 
values in those types of 

875
00:52:19,100 --> 00:52:22,700
principles. 
And we can also take what we 

876
00:52:22,700 --> 00:52:27,900
know about what we need to in 
addition to protecting also 

877
00:52:27,900 --> 00:52:31,000
focus on the common cause of all
those harms because there are 

878
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,000
some common causes we're very 
busy taking care. 

879
00:52:34,100 --> 00:52:36,900
Care of all the harm, right? 
We're all doing a huge amount of

880
00:52:36,900 --> 00:52:39,500
Oppression Management in our 
communities were all 

881
00:52:39,500 --> 00:52:42,300
experiencing it and it looks 
different for everyone and it's 

882
00:52:42,300 --> 00:52:45,600
really important to have good 
vocabulary and have these 

883
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,800
sometimes tedious debates about 
the language and about how we're

884
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,600
thinking about these things. 
It is something that is usually 

885
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,900
teased but I think it's a really
important process to get this 

886
00:52:55,900 --> 00:52:58,700
stuff right because we want to 
show each other that we care 

887
00:52:58,700 --> 00:53:02,000
about each other and we care 
about how our language impacts 

888
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,000
them. 
It's a really good healthy sign.

889
00:53:04,400 --> 00:53:07,700
Of someone who is not 
anti-social, it's a very healthy

890
00:53:07,900 --> 00:53:10,400
and natural sign. 
And we have to start embracing 

891
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:15,200
this idea that we are naturally 
driven as animals and creatures 

892
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:17,300
of this Earth. 
We are naturally driven to take 

893
00:53:17,300 --> 00:53:22,300
care of each other more so than 
any survival of the fittest 

894
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:27,000
nonsense and that our drive to 
collectively care for our 

895
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,500
communities. 
And for our animals, and our 

896
00:53:29,500 --> 00:53:32,800
plants, and our elements, and 
make sure that this place is 

897
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:34,800
still here. 
So that When all of our 

898
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:37,900
descendants are trying to live 
their lives, they can still have

899
00:53:37,900 --> 00:53:41,900
happy focused and successful 
lives and that the the 

900
00:53:41,900 --> 00:53:44,900
conditions are conducive to life
as Janine. 

901
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:48,500
Benyus says she's a biologist 
who did a fantastic has an 

902
00:53:48,500 --> 00:53:50,400
amazing website. 
Ask nature dot org. 

903
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,600
That helps Engineers understand 
how to innovate and inspiration 

904
00:53:53,700 --> 00:53:54,900
with nature. 
It's awesome. 

905
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:58,600
But I think that like we have to
start thinking in those terms of

906
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:02,000
what the common threads are and 
that's a beautiful opportunity 

907
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,600
and moment for solidarity across
Learning and really getting 

908
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,900
together at the same time that 
we're able to protect our 

909
00:54:08,900 --> 00:54:11,100
community, but our plates are 
really full, right? 

910
00:54:11,100 --> 00:54:14,500
We're really having a hard time 
holding everything and it's a 

911
00:54:14,500 --> 00:54:18,000
huge thing to ask a community to
vision for the future, when 

912
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:23,000
it's, like, just day by day. 
I'm really inspired listening to

913
00:54:23,100 --> 00:54:25,800
your description of this and 
what we need to do. 

914
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:27,900
It doesn't seem impossible to 
me. 

915
00:54:28,100 --> 00:54:30,300
It doesn't seem like All Is 
Lost. 

916
00:54:30,300 --> 00:54:32,900
Now, I keep reminding people. 
There's more of us than there 

917
00:54:32,900 --> 00:54:35,400
are of them. 
Do not Spare here, we still live

918
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:38,000
in a democracy. 
There are things we can do and 

919
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,900
the things that you're 
suggesting here are so powerful.

920
00:54:41,300 --> 00:54:44,400
It is a natural thing to want to
have each other's back and to 

921
00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:46,000
understand that we're all in 
this together. 

922
00:54:46,100 --> 00:54:47,300
Yes. 
And then we're either going to 

923
00:54:47,300 --> 00:54:50,500
sink or we're going to swim and 
I think most of us don't want to

924
00:54:50,500 --> 00:54:55,500
sink. 
I'm, I guess I'm urging a sense 

925
00:54:55,500 --> 00:54:59,400
of urgency that this isn't 
something we're going to think 

926
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:03,600
about for five or six years. 
This is something we need to 

927
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:05,100
think about for five or six 
minutes. 

928
00:55:05,500 --> 00:55:08,400
And when Cynthia said, Green 
Wave, she wasn't talking about 

929
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,000
the green New Deal. 
Look it up. 

930
00:55:11,100 --> 00:55:14,900
But other countries have figured
out how to, how to fight back. 

931
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:17,300
Yes. 
How to push back against this 

932
00:55:17,300 --> 00:55:21,700
sort of right-wing, Insanity 
against hatred, but it requires 

933
00:55:21,700 --> 00:55:23,200
true. 
Action, right? 

934
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,600
Recognition of as, you know, 
Tech not, huh? 

935
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:30,200
Would say of interbeing of 
seeing the interbeing of each 

936
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,900
other in each other, and 
bringing that, to be the value 

937
00:55:33,900 --> 00:55:37,700
around, which we do everything 
else and having that, that 

938
00:55:37,700 --> 00:55:41,100
unification be not just a 
destination but it's the 

939
00:55:41,100 --> 00:55:43,100
journey. 
You mentioned this Vietnamese 

940
00:55:43,100 --> 00:55:47,200
philosopher I believe he passed 
away this past year, didn't in 

941
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,100
January. 
Wow, I mean years ago I read his

942
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,200
books and do you have A 
favorite, I'll put a link on my 

943
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,400
site here, call me by my trolley
by my true name. 

944
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,600
Absolutely. 
And of course, his conversation 

945
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:01,700
with the berrigan's. 
That's right. 

946
00:56:01,700 --> 00:56:04,500
I completely forgot that the 
raft is not the shore. 

947
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,500
The raft is not the shore. 
Well, thank you for reminding me

948
00:56:07,500 --> 00:56:09,600
of that somewhere. 
During the covid, fog, much 

949
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,900
information left, my brain. 
But for those of you listening, 

950
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:16,300
Cynthia's refer to a number of 
things here, and we'll put up a 

951
00:56:16,300 --> 00:56:19,900
few links for you to learn these
things because we do have to 

952
00:56:19,900 --> 00:56:24,200
educate ourselves because we 
can't go in Fight ignorant or in

953
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:27,600
the dark, or in despair, 
certainly not in despair. 

954
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,100
Share your purpose with joy. 
It is something that we can sing

955
00:56:31,100 --> 00:56:35,100
about and dance about an art 
about and reflect to each other 

956
00:56:35,100 --> 00:56:38,700
what we are experiencing 
together and affirm that and 

957
00:56:38,700 --> 00:56:42,100
affirm the feelings and affirm 
the grief and affirm the relief 

958
00:56:42,100 --> 00:56:45,500
and like really celebrate all of
the evidence that we already are

959
00:56:45,500 --> 00:56:49,500
sitting on and have that, we are
committed to protecting each 

960
00:56:49,500 --> 00:56:52,200
other and protecting the future 
of the surface. 

961
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:55,700
We are already doing that 
together and we can do that and 

962
00:56:55,700 --> 00:56:57,000
we can do it better. 
Sure. 

963
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:01,100
But we have a lot of reason to 
celebrate and believe that we 

964
00:57:01,100 --> 00:57:04,100
already are doing it and look 
we're celebrating Mother's this 

965
00:57:04,100 --> 00:57:06,300
weekend and that's a beautiful 
thing. 

966
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,800
That's right but at the same 
time that we're celebrating 

967
00:57:08,800 --> 00:57:13,300
Mother's, the shadow of that is 
forced motherhood and we want to

968
00:57:13,300 --> 00:57:17,600
be able to continue to worship 
motherhood and everything that 

969
00:57:17,600 --> 00:57:21,200
we celebrate when we do that 
without creating the the types 

970
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,900
of generational trauma. 
Would really be generated if 

971
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,800
forced motherhood became what 
most people in this country had 

972
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:32,100
to experience, right? 
Absolutely. 

973
00:57:32,100 --> 00:57:36,300
And I would also guess that many
people who are in the particular

974
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:40,300
circumstances of being an extra 
set of hands in the village that

975
00:57:40,300 --> 00:57:44,300
are not able to have their own 
children, right? 

976
00:57:44,300 --> 00:57:48,300
But are willing to help that 
those people would not want to 

977
00:57:48,500 --> 00:57:53,600
have a child or baby, that was 
just going I'm through the type 

978
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:56,300
of trauma through for separation
with their mother and their 

979
00:57:56,300 --> 00:57:59,800
mothers for a separation with 
them right in this, what we'll 

980
00:57:59,808 --> 00:58:01,500
all. 
Just call an interim phase, this

981
00:58:01,500 --> 00:58:03,700
transitional phase till we get 
the power. 

982
00:58:03,700 --> 00:58:06,700
This country in the hands of the
majority who are against the 

983
00:58:06,700 --> 00:58:09,200
Supreme Court decision, you're 
going to hear in your local 

984
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:12,500
communities about different 
groups that are forming, what 

985
00:58:12,700 --> 00:58:15,900
some are calling. 
And I've called an aboveground 

986
00:58:15,900 --> 00:58:20,600
railroad where we need to help 
women and girls who need help, 

987
00:58:20,900 --> 00:58:22,400
whether it's to get to another 
state. 

988
00:58:22,500 --> 00:58:24,900
It's something within the state,
whether it's going to Canada or 

989
00:58:24,900 --> 00:58:28,300
Mexico, in the meantime in this 
is not the long-term plan, we 

990
00:58:28,300 --> 00:58:31,600
can't settle for this, we have 
to make the law and the laws of 

991
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:36,800
this land such that you have a 
right to a legal medical 

992
00:58:36,800 --> 00:58:38,800
procedure. 
But in the meantime, you 

993
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:40,800
probably know of some of these 
groups, right? 

994
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,800
Cynthia that are getting set up 
now to help women, whether it's 

995
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,400
getting to clinics in other 
states, whether it's getting 

996
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,600
access to the abortion pill or 
the Plan B pill, yes, they are 

997
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,200
on the front lines are on the 
front lines of this right now 

998
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,900
because cuz literally within 
what 1224 hours of the Supreme 

999
00:58:55,900 --> 00:58:59,600
Court, the official decision it 
is in these twenty six states 

1000
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:04,300
were most of them immediate 
immediate ban immediately a 

1001
00:59:04,300 --> 00:59:08,400
felony immediately illegal. 
Yes, not have any time to think 

1002
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,400
about it? 
Everybody should have them a 

1003
00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,900
little bottle or something of 
the pills because you may not be

1004
00:59:14,900 --> 00:59:17,400
able just to walk into the CBS 
the next morning and get that 

1005
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:18,600
pill. 
That's right. 

1006
00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:21,800
Yeah, it's going to create 
criminalized economies, and 

1007
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:24,800
criminalized. 
Enemies bring surveillance and 

1008
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:27,000
criminalized. 
Economies also means that the 

1009
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:31,300
people who are already under the
crosshairs of any type of State 

1010
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,700
Control, whether it's through a 
Child Protection Agency and the 

1011
00:59:34,700 --> 00:59:38,400
case workers are social workers 
or whether it's through the 

1012
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:42,400
increased Collision frequency 
between police and black people,

1013
00:59:42,700 --> 00:59:47,500
where there is just a denser 
amount of police in that area. 

1014
00:59:47,500 --> 00:59:50,300
And therefore, more collisions 
that are aggressively happening 

1015
00:59:50,300 --> 00:59:54,100
because all of the officers have
To do their productivity goals, 

1016
00:59:54,100 --> 00:59:56,100
right? 
And so, the more productivity 

1017
00:59:56,100 --> 00:59:58,900
goals driven officers that you 
have in an area. 

1018
00:59:58,900 --> 01:00:01,200
The more you're going to just 
have people that are 

1019
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,400
increasingly having these 
interactions. 

1020
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:06,100
If you look at global data in 
New York City, you'll see that 

1021
01:00:06,100 --> 01:00:08,800
there's on the Civilian 
Complaint review board. 

1022
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:12,600
They have a category of an 
abuse. 

1023
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:16,700
That is the wrongful taking of 
someone cell phone or the 

1024
01:00:16,700 --> 01:00:19,900
wrongful interfering with the 
use of the cell phone. 

1025
01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:23,300
And what that tells you is that 
police are not Just stopping 

1026
01:00:23,300 --> 01:00:25,200
people and going in their 
pockets and looking and their 

1027
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,300
bags are also looking for their 
phones and trying to 

1028
01:00:28,300 --> 01:00:31,700
increasingly get access to the 
information that's in the phone.

1029
01:00:31,700 --> 01:00:34,100
And sometimes they're even 
picking up a young kid. 

1030
01:00:34,100 --> 01:00:35,100
And they're saying, you know 
what? 

1031
01:00:35,100 --> 01:00:38,700
Like you littered in the hallway
of a public housing project, 

1032
01:00:38,700 --> 01:00:42,600
right? 
And then taking that child into 

1033
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:45,500
custody under the pretense of 
having done something that was a

1034
01:00:45,500 --> 01:00:49,200
violation of the housing rules 
and then in that interaction, 

1035
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:52,800
with that young person, while 
detained saying hey, Let me see 

1036
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:54,200
your phone. 
Let me see. 

1037
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:56,200
Your phone and see who's in your
social network. 

1038
01:00:56,200 --> 01:00:57,900
Who are you? 
Facebook friends with show me 

1039
01:00:57,900 --> 01:00:59,600
this? 
Show me that the people who are 

1040
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:04,000
going to suffer the most from 
these increasingly criminalized,

1041
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:07,200
economies are going to be the 
black people and the other 

1042
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,800
people of color and pregnant, 
people who are historically, 

1043
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:14,700
oppressed and already in the 
crosshairs of law enforcement. 

1044
01:01:14,700 --> 01:01:18,400
It's right or some other type of
State Control, Dorothy Roberts 

1045
01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:22,000
described, the state agency, 
such as a child, protective 

1046
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:26,800
wealth Our systems Etc. 
As the benevolent Terror, you 

1047
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:30,900
know, other aspects of the human
welfare system that introduced a

1048
01:01:30,908 --> 01:01:33,200
huge amount of surveillance into
someone's life. 

1049
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:36,300
If you have a case worker for 
getting State assistance, for 

1050
01:01:36,300 --> 01:01:39,800
example, and Virginia Eubanks 
book automating and equality is 

1051
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:42,800
a fantastic resource to learn 
about those when the state has 

1052
01:01:42,800 --> 01:01:46,700
you in their safety, net. 
There's a lot of opportunities. 

1053
01:01:46,700 --> 01:01:50,500
They create for surveilling, 
what you buy, where you go, who 

1054
01:01:50,500 --> 01:01:52,300
you're in touch with, who's your
contact. 

1055
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:56,400
Tax excetera just because the 
caseworker hasn't busted down 

1056
01:01:56,400 --> 01:02:00,000
your door or the case worker 
doesn't have a gun on them, 

1057
01:02:00,500 --> 01:02:02,300
don't let your guard down. 
That's right. 

1058
01:02:02,300 --> 01:02:05,800
And the work of Khadija 
abdelrahman and that space is 

1059
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:09,800
also been really phenomenal and 
and she's articulated that space

1060
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:11,600
well along with a lot of other 
people. 

1061
01:02:12,100 --> 01:02:13,700
So we just have a few seconds 
left. 

1062
01:02:13,700 --> 01:02:15,900
I'm going to just give that time
to you any final things you'd 

1063
01:02:15,900 --> 01:02:18,400
like to bring up, say encourage 
people. 

1064
01:02:18,700 --> 01:02:20,400
You think you've been very 
wonderful. 

1065
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:23,000
What you've said about, not 
letting despair Run your life 

1066
01:02:23,000 --> 01:02:26,300
here at this moment, because we 
all need to pick ourselves up. 

1067
01:02:26,300 --> 01:02:30,000
Pick each other up and I'm word.
So, I'll leave the last word to 

1068
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:30,800
you. 
Yeah. 

1069
01:02:30,800 --> 01:02:34,400
I mean celebrate, whatever 
source of inspiration. 

1070
01:02:35,100 --> 01:02:38,700
Gets you going and makes you 
have energy to get together and 

1071
01:02:38,700 --> 01:02:42,000
try to learn together and 
realize how to protect each 

1072
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:47,300
other now but also how to 
reorganize how our society, our 

1073
01:02:47,300 --> 01:02:51,700
country, maybe even our world to
better protect people now into 

1074
01:02:51,700 --> 01:02:53,700
the future. 
ER, absolutely. 

1075
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:55,800
It's been a real pleasure 
talking to you. 

1076
01:02:55,800 --> 01:02:59,200
I'm honored that you gave of 
your that we're recording this 

1077
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:02,800
on a Saturday night. 
And mom is here. 

1078
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:08,000
Yes, yes, happy Mother's Day to 
all mothers out there to those 

1079
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:12,100
whose mothers have left us, keep
living the life that that, you 

1080
01:03:12,100 --> 01:03:15,300
know, that yes, to the ancient 
grandmother, yes. 

1081
01:03:15,300 --> 01:03:18,300
To all of them who came before 
us and especially the women did 

1082
01:03:18,300 --> 01:03:21,400
not have it easy. 
It needs to be said. 

1083
01:03:21,700 --> 01:03:25,900
And yet, I'll know it and 
thankfully they existed in now 

1084
01:03:25,900 --> 01:03:29,200
we exist. 
Yes, our daughters, our nieces 

1085
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:35,100
our granddaughters, we have no 
option other than to stand up 

1086
01:03:35,100 --> 01:03:37,200
and do what's right and do it 
now. 

1087
01:03:37,300 --> 01:03:40,400
Yeah, and that the outpouring of
protest that we've seen this 

1088
01:03:40,400 --> 01:03:46,000
week, really shines back to us, 
reflects back to us, that we 

1089
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:49,100
have support in our community 
that we are keeping each other 

1090
01:03:49,100 --> 01:03:51,700
safe that were committed to 
keeping each other safe. 

1091
01:03:52,400 --> 01:03:55,600
And that our democracy and our 
devices should really do the 

1092
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:57,300
same. 
Absolutely. 

1093
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:01,700
Thank you very much. 
Cynthia County cook for being my

1094
01:04:01,700 --> 01:04:04,800
guest here on Rumble will stay 
in touch you let us know 

1095
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:06,700
anything. 
We need to put out there to our 

1096
01:04:06,700 --> 01:04:08,100
audience. 
We will do that. 

1097
01:04:08,500 --> 01:04:12,100
And to all of you out there, go 
online, look for ways to get 

1098
01:04:12,100 --> 01:04:15,100
involved, talk to people. 
Everybody's talking about this, 

1099
01:04:15,100 --> 01:04:17,600
this week, there's no issue. 
I've received more mail on since

1100
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:20,000
this podcast started, then this 
issue this week. 

1101
01:04:20,500 --> 01:04:22,700
Wow, we've got our work. 
Cut out for For us. 

1102
01:04:22,700 --> 01:04:26,800
But I'm I'm a big believer in 
our ability to succeed. 

1103
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:30,100
So, yeah, it's in our 
mitochondrial to open up 

1104
01:04:30,100 --> 01:04:33,600
correctly, pay attention. 
I have real hope. 

1105
01:04:33,700 --> 01:04:36,000
I'm not alone in this, right? 
No. 

1106
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:39,900
No, we have hope and we have, 
it's a good practice to catalog 

1107
01:04:39,900 --> 01:04:43,100
as many things in your day as 
like, make it that much lighter 

1108
01:04:43,100 --> 01:04:46,300
and that much happier, and, and 
focus on those at the same time 

1109
01:04:46,300 --> 01:04:50,400
that we're also holding a lot of
really heavy suffering and 

1110
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,700
witnessing a lot of suffering, 
but we can look at the suffering

1111
01:04:53,700 --> 01:04:57,700
and we can witness it and we can
figure out and help each other 

1112
01:04:57,700 --> 01:05:00,800
and to great our traumas 
together, so that we can heal. 

1113
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:04,300
And I think that there is an 
salute reason to be really 

1114
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:08,200
hopeful at this moment. 
And, you know, if we can find 

1115
01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:11,100
that moment, if we can find the 
moment inside of the newspaper 

1116
01:05:11,100 --> 01:05:16,300
clippings where we can send, you
know, be receptive to messages 

1117
01:05:16,300 --> 01:05:19,300
from our self from their fantasy
future, that says, don't go here

1118
01:05:19,600 --> 01:05:23,900
and we can start to really focus
on where we do want to go and 

1119
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:25,900
decide what our own fantasy 
future. 

1120
01:05:25,900 --> 01:05:29,100
Looks like and start doing the 
work to build into that and I 

1121
01:05:29,107 --> 01:05:33,500
think it's absolutely a moment 
that we have Decision that were 

1122
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:37,400
all perfectly you know driven to
and capable of making a 

1123
01:05:37,400 --> 01:05:39,600
together. 
Yeah, we can do this. 

1124
01:05:40,100 --> 01:05:43,500
Yeah, right on. 
Absolutely well and that wraps 

1125
01:05:43,500 --> 01:05:47,000
it up for us here today, but it 
does not wrap it up in terms of 

1126
01:05:47,100 --> 01:05:49,400
how we're going to stay on this.
Make your voice heard. 

1127
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:52,800
Now, if you hear of 
demonstrations locally, go to 

1128
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:56,200
it, go to protest, get out in 
the street, let the Supreme 

1129
01:05:56,200 --> 01:05:59,600
Court know what they're going to
be facing when they go against 

1130
01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:04,200
70% of this country. 
Thanks very much to Cynthia for 

1131
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:07,100
coming on my podcast and to all 
of you for listening today. 

1132
01:06:07,100 --> 01:06:10,600
Please share this with others so
that we all get involved. 

1133
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:13,700
Please read my sub stacked 
column at Michael more.com about

1134
01:06:13,700 --> 01:06:18,400
this and we'll be back again. 
Sometime this week with more on 

1135
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:21,500
this and other issues. 
This is Rumble with Michael 

1136
01:06:21,500 --> 01:06:24,400
Moore. 
I'm Michael Moore, my thanks to 

1137
01:06:24,400 --> 01:06:28,700
our producer and editor, angel 
of Argos and everybody else 

1138
01:06:28,700 --> 01:06:33,000
who's helped me out here. 
The showing greatly All of that 

1139
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:36,200
help in all of you who listen to
it will talk to you soon. 

1140
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:50,700
Thanks there's work ahead. 
Marty Journal, Bella, Ciao, 

1141
01:06:50,700 --> 01:06:58,400
Bella ciao, ciao, ciao, ciao. 
A teacher know what the term, e,

1142
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:06,300
sinto d, mu d. 
He say you're more your Journal.

1143
01:07:33,700 --> 01:07:41,100
That's when Montagne software 
Alone died, you will feel it. 

1144
01:07:41,100 --> 01:07:50,600
Crystal field of vision. 
Ciao, ciao, ciao, ciao. 

1145
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:56,100
We're still your belt but these 
are no more talk.