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This is Rumble with Michael 
Moore and I am Michael Moore. 

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Welcome everyone. 
Well I've got a great guest 

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coming up here on today's 
episode, my old friend, John 

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Schwarz, who writes for The 
Intercept. 

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He worked on my film capitalism.
Love story, great guy, great 

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thinker. 
Funny. 

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So I'm looking forward to try to
cover a number of things with 

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him. 
We can fit it all in here within

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the hour. 
Be great. 

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So please stick around for that,
it's just coming up here in a 

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few minutes and thanks to all of
you out there. 

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All you listeners who gave me 
some great and incredible 

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feedback on episode 1 97. 
Which was called Welcome to the 

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Department of restorative 
justice and Redemption. 

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And my guest Dan Berger who has 
written and worked on this issue

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of mass incarceration for Many 
years, great feedback, great 

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ideas. 
Let's stay with this topic. 

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The topic of what we're going to
do to get rid of the systems 

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that we have had for so many 
years that don't work, whether 

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it's policing, whether it's 
incarceration, what we call, 

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Justice, all of this, we can 
fix. 

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We can fix all of this and have 
a better safer Kinder society 

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and and help those who fall 
between the cracks who make 

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mistakes. 
Steaks. 

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We can do this better. 
We can do this better and so we 

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will stay with us topic here for
the rest of this year. 

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Frankly, every now and then when
we have time to come back to it,

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I'm going to come back to it and
present new ideas on what we can

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do to have a more just Society 
than the one that we have right 

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now. 
So please keep sending me your 

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feedback to Mike, Michael 
more.com, it's that easy. 

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I read every email, I don't have
time to respond to all of them. 

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Sorry for that but I do Read 
them and you can leave me a 

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voicemail. 
There's a link here on my 

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podcast platform page and just 
click on that and there's a 60 

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second thing where you can just 
record and I listen I listen to 

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to all the the voicemails. 
So a lot is going on this week 

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in the world. 
In this country the latest where

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Biden has compromised with the 
conservative Democrats and 

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moderate Republicans read. 
What's he done is reduce this, 

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the original two trillion dollar
infrastructure, bill, Because he

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said, infrastructure has to do 
with climate has to do with 

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childcare. 
It's not just Bridges and Roads.

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Well, he gave in essentially to 
the Republicans. 

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They probably won't vote for it 
anyways, because they don't 

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matter. 
They don't care now if you give 

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in, but it's like down to five 
hundred and eighty billion 

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dollars down from the whatever. 
It was a trillion and a half. 

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Two trillion. 
That's not going to work. 

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We've got a fight. 
We've got a fight. 

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We got to fight for all these 
things, the majority of 

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Americans have made their 
voices, very clear that they 

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wanted the The controlled Senate
house and White House, and the 

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policies that we believe in of 
the policies that the majority 

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of our fellow Americans agree. 
And so, let's make sure we do 

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that. 
Lets us. 

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So, we before bring John on here
as my guest, I want to thank our

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underwriter for today's episode 
Netflix. 

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Once again has come through to 
support this podcast to support 

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my voice. 
And I want to thank them first, 

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of all. 
And then point out that they 

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have this excellent Documentary 
Series going on right now called

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high on the hog. 
How African-American Cuisine 

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transformed America. 
This is a wonderful documentary 

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series and you will be hungry 
while you're watching it. 

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Now, the series was directed by 
Roger, Ross, Williams, who is an

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academy award-winning 
documentary filmmaker and 

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actually, one of our great 
documentary filmmakers right 

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now. 
I hired them cheese, I don't 

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know when was that 20? 
25 years ago. 

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He worked with me on my 
television. 

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Carrie's wonderful guy. 
And the series of his is based 

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on the book, high on the hog by 
food historian, Jessica be 

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Harris. 
It's a beautifully shot. 

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Travelogue actually, that 
honors, and celebrates the 

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traditions, and the Heritage. 
And the Artistry of black food, 

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and black chefs that have helped
Define the American Kitchen. 

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This is something you rarely see
on any of these other channels. 

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So you're going to salivate 
while watching this over western

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African, stews, soul food, BBQ 
and fine dining. 

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You'll learn the culinary 
history that was shaped by 

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slavery and the Civil War in 
June 10th, right up until 

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present day events. 
This is an intelligent 

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thoughtful entertaining 
documentary series. 

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And did I mention? 
It's very appetizing. 

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So, there's a reason everyone's 
talking about this wonderful 

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series. 
High on the hog, find out why 

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The praise for it is much 
deserved. 

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So please watch this. 
I've watched it. 

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It's incredible. 
And I'll have a link for it on 

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the description page right here 
of my podcast, you can click on 

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it and watch it. 
And thanks again, Netflix for 

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supporting my voice, supporting 
this podcast supporting 

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non-fiction works of art. 
It's greatly appreciated, not 

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just by documentary filmmakers, 
but by all Americans, and people

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around the world who believe in 
facts and it Love the truth. 

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A new story popped up in my 
notifications of this week and 

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maybe some of you might have 
missed it. 

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It's one of those stories and 
the this happens every week. 

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I know you probably see the same
thing going on, where you go? 

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Oh my God, this is so I can't 
believe this and then it's the 

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last you hear of it. 
I mean somebody might mention it

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once or twice and then it's 
gone. 

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And I hate it. 
I hate it when they're gone. 

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It's this particular story this 
week reveals many truths about 

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how the world works and too 
often. 

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Gets forgotten as we move on to 
the next distraction. 

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So here's the headline from The 
New York Times, this is hot red.

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Saudi operatives, who killed 
khashoggi received paramilitary 

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training in the US. 
And then it goes on to say the 

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training approved by the state 
department, underscores The 

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Perils of military Partnerships 
with repressive governments Wow,

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I saw that and I was like Not 
only was the Washington Post 

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journalist Jamal khashoggi 
murdered by the American 

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government's close Ally Saudi 
Arabia but the operatives who 

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carried out the assassination or
given paramilitary training in 

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the u.s. one year earlier under 
a contract approved by our state

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department. 
Because Yogi's body was 

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dismembered using a bone saw, 
what kind of state department 

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funded training? 
Is this G's before anyone argues

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that? 
Well Mike, of course, you know, 

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America did brutal and ugly 
things. 

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And Donald Trump was our 
president. 

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I must point out to you. 
What this article says, quote, 

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the state department initially 
granted this license for the 

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paramilitary training, The Saudi
Royal Guard to these American 

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contractors starting in 
drumroll, please 2014. 

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During the Obama Administration.
The training continued during at

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least the first year of the 
former president known as Donald

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Trump. 
My friends, if I have said this 

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once I've said it a thousand 
times Donald Trump did not just 

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fall from the sky. 
He was actually the perfect 

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embodiment of American cruelty 
and inhumanity. 

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And while removing him from 
office was thoroughly necessary,

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I don't even need to state that 
toy. 

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It is this cruelty and 
inhumanity that we must now 

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extinguish. 
And whenever I think of Cruelty 

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and inhumanity I think of my 
guest today on Rumble. 

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John Schwarz. 
John is one of my favorite 

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writers, thinkers humourists, he
always keeps a close eye on the 

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inner workings of the American 
Empire and never allows us to 

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forget these ugly details. 
John always has a great eye for 

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irony and a deep commitment to 
undoing. 

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The propaganda that our media, 
our educational system and our 

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culture, bombards us with on a 
daily basis. 

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John currently writes for The 
Intercept, he's also contributed

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to the New Yorker, the New York 
Times slate as well as NPR and 

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yes, in his younger years, 
Saturday Night, Live and a full 

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disclosure John used to work for
me. 

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As a researcher on capitalism, a
love story and way back in the 

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day. 
He ran Michael more.com. 

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So it is a huge pleasure and an 
honor to have my old friend here

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with me for the first time here 
on Rumble. 

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John Schwarz. 
John, how are you? 

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Well, I'm great. 
Thank you for saying so many 

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kind things. 
I should say that you know 

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working with you working with 
everybody else on capitalism, 

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love story the other stuff too. 
Was a huge education in how to 

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cause trouble. 
Well, thank you. 

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I think that's a compliment. 
Yeah, thank you for that. 

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You have continued to do this 
though, and I'm so grateful. 

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And so when I saw this article 
bezel and I were talking in 

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this, this is right up jonn's 
alley. 

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And then you like so many times 
start to write about these 

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things before were even trying 
to kind of gather our thoughts. 

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And, and I want to start here, 
but I have a bunch of things. 

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I want to throw at you, because 
my head is spinning and I think 

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the heads of millions of 
Americans and people around the 

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world are spinning right now. 
So if we could just start with 

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khashoggi, and give me your take
on this and what it is, we can 

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do about it because I do not 
want this story to die. 

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Yeah. 
Well I mean, this is the kind of

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thing where if you know anything
about u.s. history, you read it,

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you're like, wow, like this is 
incredibly shocking and 

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Incredibly unsurprising, you 
know, it's, it's the kind of 

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thing that is like a As ugly as 
it gets with human beings. 

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And yet at the same time, the 
kind of thing that we've done a 

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million times before. 
And I think people should look 

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at the story and look at a 
little bit of the background. 

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You know, first of all, the 
company that did the training to

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your one group, it's owned by a 
private Equity Firm, which is 

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called Cerberus Capital 
Management. 

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And if I'm pronouncing that 
right, people may know, server 

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is the the three-headed dog. 
That guards, the Gates of Hell 

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in mythology. 
Edgy to prevent people from 

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escaping from hell, that's not 
just a, that's not a joke. 

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That's actually, that's true. 
Yeah, that's that's absolutely 

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true. 
And, you know, if people name 

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their company that you kind of 
get where they're coming from 

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from the beginning, and end, if 
you want to think like this is, 

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you know, okay? 
So Obama was involved, the Trump

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State Department was involved 
but it's still an anomaly. 

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Well, one of the top officials 
at this private Equity. 

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Firm is George HW. 
Bush's vice president Dan Quayle

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like hmm. 
This is the people Who run this 

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country. 
And this is the way they see the

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world. 
And this is kind of thing they 

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do, and you kind of gotta face 
that and figure out, you know, 

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how to go on from there. 
So, okay. 

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So again, as you said, not, 
surprising and I don't know why 

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it is probably because, you 
know, sometimes I just don't 

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want to think about this stuff. 
And so you Rita, Rita horrible 

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headline or even a, you know, 
when it happened, when the 

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assassination of khashoggi took 
place, you know, your brain 

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should just automatically by now
go to this the to this default 

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that says oh we had a hand in 
this home where we the United 

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States government, you know 
somebody somebody did something 

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with this this this pot this 
this and sure enough we learn 

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now this week some years now 
after his death that we did have

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a hand that a private contractor
from our state department and 

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back during his back during the 
Obama Administration training, 

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Rain, these assassins. 
To commit their crimes on 

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whatever they were going to do 
with the training that we gave 

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them. 
I mean, I don't, I worry when 

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people hear this and they listen
to this podcast that they just 

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start to sink like a cheese. 
Of course, what a same old same 

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old, what do we do about this 
now? 

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And I want to like, jump out of 
my chair and go, there is 

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something we can do. 
I'm not quite sure what it is at

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this moment, but I refuse to let
this be done in my name, my tax 

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dollars and And you know, 
somebody's going to have to pay 

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for this. 
Yeah, you know, and I would say 

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like even though it is no 
surprise, I don't think people 

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should read the story and just 
like, give up in despair in it. 

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Like, one of the things about 
this story is that they felt it 

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was necessary to keep it secret,
you know, like it in the past 

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that speaks that speaks highly 
of us exactly lips. 

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Like, they're that worried about
us, right? 

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They know that normal Americans 
were to find out about this. 

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Like, it would really cause some
trouble for them. 

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And, and that wasn't necessarily
the case in the Past. 

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I mean, America is done some 
pretty awful things without 

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feeling the need to cover it up.
So like that in and of itself is

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progress and even though they're
never going to tell us that it 

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was like like weirdos you 
yelling about this stuff in the 

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past that caused them to keep 
this secret. 

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It actually was and the more you
yell about it, the more like you

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go, like, like go and and talk 
to your, like, your elected 

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representatives. 
I know that seems Like, you 

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know, this is sort of like 
schoolbook thing to do, but 

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there are a lot of people in 
Congress who actually are 

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outraged about, this will 
continue to be outraged about 

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it. 
They don't want the country to 

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run like this and it is, it is 
not necessarily the case that 

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nothing can be done. 
I think that we should start 

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from the premise that something 
can be done. 

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Things have changed in the past,
they can change again. 

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Well, I believe that. 
And I guess what I'll say is 

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that people listening. 
First of all, I love to hear 

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your ideas. 
Or ideas, you know? 

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You can always write me here at 
the bottom. 

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There's a link on this podcast 
page. 

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You can leave me a voicemail. 
I love to hear your thoughts 

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about this and I I'm going to be
thinking about it, and I don't, 

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I won't let this drop. 
I will I'm going to stay on this

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00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:50,800
because this this has to end 
this. 

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This kind of behavior that's 
done. 

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In our name, has to be brought 
to an end and the main thing 

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right now, I guess John is one 
of the Reasons, I wanted to have

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you on today. 
One of a number of reasons, I 

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want two things. 
I want to get into with. 

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You is that that story from the 
past week? 

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Just doesn't fade away. 
Yeah, this is what I always 

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worry about, you know, it just 
so much going on and it comes 

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and it goes, well, here's here's
the thing. 

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I just read a proverb for the 
first time that I had never seen

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before, which I think is a good 
thing to keep in mind about this

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kind of stuff, which is The axe 
forgets, but the tree remembers.

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And wow, regular people are the 
tree continually being hit with 

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the ax like it's our job to like
like to do that. 

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To be the remembering part and 
it's natural for the people in 

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00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,800
charge to try to throw this away
and make it vanish from history.

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And if you take seriously 
anything about politics, like 

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00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,300
you realize that just 
remembering stuff and bring it 

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00:17:01,300 --> 00:17:03,200
up again and again and again 
really doesn't make a 

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00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:04,900
difference. 
They there's nothing that they 

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00:17:04,900 --> 00:17:06,599
hate more than that. 
That and you know, you can see 

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00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:09,000
that and what's going on all 
over the country is like all the

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00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,400
state governments where they're 
like, yeah, we're going to make 

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00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:15,099
teaching actual history illegal.
Like there's a good reason for 

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00:17:15,099 --> 00:17:16,000
that. 
They know what they're doing. 

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So I agree with you. 
Like this, this story says so 

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00:17:18,700 --> 00:17:22,300
much about how the world works. 
That it's really important that 

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00:17:22,300 --> 00:17:24,400
we remember it. 
I bet that there is more, that 

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00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,000
is going to come out and we 
should keep talking about that 

286
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,400
whenever that happens, right? 
And and not and not be bullied 

287
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,000
by it, like, like you mentioned 
the history, they don't want us 

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00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,700
to know, they The big, the 
Bugaboo of the week is critical 

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00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:43,600
race Theory must not be taught 
in our schools and and then when

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00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,500
I'm watching the chairman of the
Joint Chiefs of Staff yesterday 

291
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:50,800
in Congress, like dressing them 
down for how dare you say we 

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00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:55,200
don't talk about this or learn 
about it or try to understand 

293
00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:58,600
you know, institutional racism 
in this country. 

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00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:02,500
First of all on the issue of 
critical race Theory, Etc. 

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00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:04,900
I love you have to get much 
smarter on whatever the theory 

296
00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:08,700
is. 
But I do think it's important. 

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00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:14,100
Actually, for those of us in 
uniform to be open-minded and be

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00:18:14,100 --> 00:18:16,700
widely read and the United 
States Military Academy is a 

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00:18:16,708 --> 00:18:22,200
university and it is important 
that we train and we understand.

300
00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:25,900
And I want to understand white 
rage and I'm white and I want to

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00:18:25,900 --> 00:18:29,000
understand it. 
So what is it, that caused 

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00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:32,800
thousands of people to assault 
this building and try to 

303
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,200
overturn the Constitution of the
United States of America? 

304
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,600
What Is that I want to find that
out. 

305
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,200
I want to maintain an open mind 
here and I do want to analyze 

306
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,600
it. 
That was just last thing. 

307
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,000
I expect to see out of the mouth
of the, the chair of the Joint 

308
00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,700
Chiefs of Staff. 
And yet, you know it. 

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00:18:47,900 --> 00:18:52,500
I thought, yes, everybody take 
take a cue from this guy and 

310
00:18:52,500 --> 00:18:54,200
stand up again. 
Don't let this happen in your 

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00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,700
local school districts. 
This is so important that we 

312
00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:00,800
teach our children about this 
and how we got here, how we got 

313
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,700
here? 
Racially, it's this is one of 

314
00:19:03,700 --> 00:19:05,400
the most important things we 
need to be. 

315
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:07,700
Talking about in schools these 
days. 

316
00:19:07,700 --> 00:19:12,500
But, but the way that they go, 
after you've got a thing in the 

317
00:19:12,500 --> 00:19:16,500
intercepted, a coming up here 
about the Hulk concept of the, 

318
00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:19,800
the moral equivalency. 
It can we just talk about that 

319
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:24,700
for a second and about our, the 
congresswoman ilhan, Omar and 

320
00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:27,600
what she's had to go through in 
the last couple of weeks because

321
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,500
she just happened to point out 
that a lot of bad things are 

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00:19:30,508 --> 00:19:33,300
done in the world. 
A lot of different people, some 

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00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:35,400
of those bad things are done by 
the United States. 

324
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,300
Some of them are done by Israel.
Sorry, to have to point that out

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00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:42,300
to everybody. 
I know you opposed the courts 

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00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:48,900
investigation in both Palestine 
and in Afghanistan, I haven't 

327
00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:52,800
seen any evidence in either 
cases that domestic port scan, 

328
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:57,600
both can and will prosecute 
alleged war crimes, and crimes 

329
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,000
against humanity. 
And I would emphasize that in 

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00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:05,400
Israel and Palestine. 
This includes crimes. 

331
00:20:05,500 --> 00:20:10,100
Dated by both Israeli Security 
Forces than Hamas in 

332
00:20:10,100 --> 00:20:13,000
Afghanistan. 
It includes crimes committed by 

333
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,200
the effect on national 
government, and the Taliban, and

334
00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:19,100
man, did the world come down on 
her? 

335
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:23,700
Yeah, people probably saw this 
happening, it was extremely ugly

336
00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:25,800
at awful. 
Because what she was talking 

337
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,400
about specifically was the 
international criminal court in 

338
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:34,300
2020 had opened investigations 
into atrocities, committed on 

339
00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:36,100
all size and half. 
Gana stands. 

340
00:20:36,100 --> 00:20:40,100
So that means the US government,
NATO the government of 

341
00:20:40,300 --> 00:20:45,200
Afghanistan and the Taliban and 
they had opened an investigation

342
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:52,800
into conflicts between Israel 
and Palestinians and so that's 

343
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:53,900
what she was referencing, you 
know? 

344
00:20:53,900 --> 00:20:59,300
Like, We should have a neutral 
Arbiter enforcing the law 

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00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:05,100
equally, and people went nuts, 
it was incredible to see, but 

346
00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:07,200
the thing that was the most 
interesting to me was that they 

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00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:12,300
use this term moral equivalence.
And this is a terrible crime. 

348
00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:15,400
She didn't actually say, like 
the United States is morally 

349
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,400
equivalent to Hamas. 
She didn't say that at, all 

350
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,400
right? 
They love this term, which is 

351
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,800
This, this term of propaganda. 
Like it's very rare that you can

352
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:27,400
say like propo would propaganda.
Was invented here at this place 

353
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:31,000
on this date, but that actually 
is true with moral equivalence. 

354
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:36,500
It's a term from the Reagan 
Administration that was invented

355
00:21:36,500 --> 00:21:41,200
by his state department and the 
most prominent neoconservatives 

356
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:47,700
of that era to defend him from 
criticism of the unbelievably 

357
00:21:47,700 --> 00:21:51,400
awful foreign policy, that his 
administration was conducting 

358
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,900
especially in Central America. 
And so I wanted to do this. 

359
00:21:55,100 --> 00:21:58,200
To just look remind people this 
history, I think almost no one 

360
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,900
remembers this anymore. 
It's only a oddballs like 

361
00:22:01,900 --> 00:22:04,600
ourselves. 
Make many things that happened 

362
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,200
here this is 35 years ago. 
Thanks for including me. 

363
00:22:07,300 --> 00:22:08,100
Yeah. 
Yeah, you're right. 

364
00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:11,600
But explain this because I just 
found this fascinating. 

365
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:12,300
Go ahead. 
Yeah. 

366
00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:17,400
So what happened was that? 
The neoconservatives became very

367
00:22:17,700 --> 00:22:25,000
concerned that, you know, 
carping Intellectuals with their

368
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,600
hatred of America and so forth. 
We're criticizing the United 

369
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:34,700
States too much and they held a 
conference in 1985. 

370
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:37,300
As I say, sponsored by the state
department that was called, 

371
00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:41,600
moral equivalence false images 
of US and Soviet values. 

372
00:22:41,900 --> 00:22:44,500
And so this is people like Jean 
Kirkpatrick, you know again 

373
00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:47,500
probably somebody who's largely 
forgotten now but she was a very

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00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:51,400
prominent, then she was Reagan's
ambassador to the UN, William 

375
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,400
Bennett who Who was the 
Secretary of Education, he later

376
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,500
wrote a book, a best-seller, 
that was something like, like, a

377
00:22:57,500 --> 00:23:00,200
treasury of values. 
It's all about bringing preemie,

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00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:05,200
America back to Traditional 
Values and and what they wanted 

379
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,200
to say. 
Like it's a term that is 

380
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:09,200
intended to bully people into 
silence. 

381
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,700
Like, if you criticize America, 
like, how can you do that? 

382
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:16,200
Because the Soviet Union is so 
much worse. 

383
00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:20,700
And then the Soviet Union 
collapsed, but moral, 

384
00:23:20,700 --> 00:23:24,300
equivalence continued onward, 
like you can At the Google has 

385
00:23:24,300 --> 00:23:29,000
this really amazing feature that
allows you to see how frequently

386
00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:32,800
words were used in books over 
the past. 200 years, what you 

387
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,500
can see is that moral 
equivalence barely ever appeared

388
00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:40,300
in the English language until 
the 1980s until the Reagan 

389
00:23:40,300 --> 00:23:43,400
Administration created and then 
it exploded and even after the 

390
00:23:43,408 --> 00:23:48,600
Soviet Union disappeared, the 
politicians and pundits, found 

391
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:53,900
it so useful that it continues 
to this day Is constantly used 

392
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,500
the British government during 
the beginning of the invasion of

393
00:23:57,500 --> 00:24:00,600
Afghanistan in 2001. 
They said that merely quoting 

394
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,100
the Taliban was moral. 
Equivalence Dick Cheney said 

395
00:24:04,100 --> 00:24:06,800
that criticizing the Bush 
Administration for torture was 

396
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:08,700
moral equivalence. 
So they love it. 

397
00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:11,300
It's just a term intended to 
shut you up, but if you think 

398
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:14,700
about it for one second, you 
realize that it doesn't make any

399
00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:16,900
sense at all, like, what is 
moral equivalence? 

400
00:24:16,900 --> 00:24:18,700
What is the yardstick that we're
using here? 

401
00:24:19,100 --> 00:24:23,700
And so, it's really whenever you
hear this, you should The, the 

402
00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:27,800
people using it are morally 
bankrupt and you should ignore 

403
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,500
them. 
I mean, just just before this 

404
00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:32,100
happened, where they'll on Omar,
Mitch McConnell was accusing. 

405
00:24:32,100 --> 00:24:34,500
Nancy Pelosi of moral 
equivalence. 

406
00:24:34,500 --> 00:24:37,500
So what was he going after four?
When he said that? 

407
00:24:37,700 --> 00:24:41,100
That was because she was saying 
that there should be a ceasefire

408
00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:46,500
like in the recent conflict 
between Gaza and Israel and that

409
00:24:46,500 --> 00:24:50,100
was that was World covalence, 
putting Hamas and the Israeli 

410
00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:53,900
government on the same level. 
So anything Anyway it's just 

411
00:24:53,900 --> 00:24:57,800
right because Nancy Pelosi such 
a huge Hamas, supporter that's 

412
00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:58,900
right. 
There's nothing more that the 

413
00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:00,400
Nancy Pelosi loves that him 
boss. 

414
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:01,900
Right. 
Right. 

415
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,100
So so how do we deal with this? 
I mean I guess just being aware 

416
00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:08,800
of it is probably the most 
important thing that when you're

417
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:14,400
being Bamboozled with this term 
and and and and put on the 

418
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,100
defensive which you should never
be that somehow you're you're 

419
00:25:18,100 --> 00:25:22,500
morally inept for raising issues
drawing. 

420
00:25:22,700 --> 00:25:26,900
Comparisons, or just talking 
about two different things in 

421
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:30,100
the same sentence to not. 
Let them get away with that, 

422
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:30,800
right? 
Exactly. 

423
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:35,500
I mean here's the way I think 
people should look look at this.

424
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:37,600
There are two possibilities 
here, right? 

425
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,100
The first possibility is that 
America? 

426
00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:42,800
You know, we started out as 13 
colonies on the Eastern 

427
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,100
Seaboard. 
Then we took over most of North 

428
00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:50,200
America. 
Now, we have Like 800 military 

429
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,100
bases, all over the world in 70 
countries. 

430
00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:55,800
And then we did this just by 
being super, super nice. 

431
00:25:57,100 --> 00:26:00,800
You know, like that's that's one
possibility and the other 

432
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,900
possibility is that we're just 
like other huge Empires 

433
00:26:03,900 --> 00:26:07,700
throughout history and sometimes
Empires do things that are 

434
00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:11,000
morally like pretty good. 
Most of the time, what they do 

435
00:26:11,500 --> 00:26:17,600
is awful and truly evil. 
And in this article, I use this 

436
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:22,700
quote from from Thomas Merton 
who is a poet and also a monk. 

437
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,200
Really interesting guy and in 
1962, To. 

438
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,800
He was corresponding with a 
friend of his about the very 

439
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,100
beginnings of Vietnam. 
So he saw it coming long before 

440
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:39,400
most everybody else. 
And he said the world is full of

441
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,800
great criminals with enormous 
power and they are in a death 

442
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:45,800
struggle, with each other. 
It is a huge gang battle of 

443
00:26:45,808 --> 00:26:49,700
supremely well, armed and well, 
organized gangsters let us avoid

444
00:26:49,700 --> 00:26:52,900
false optimism and approved 
gestures and seek truth. 

445
00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:59,300
And I find that like incredibly 
profound, like yeah, avoid 

446
00:26:59,300 --> 00:27:02,800
approved Jesters, avoid things 
meant to stop you from thinking.

447
00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:06,500
And I'll just mention, I think 
it's the end of the One. 

448
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:09,300
If I'm remembering. 
Right. 

449
00:27:09,300 --> 00:27:11,500
Like where you say like one evil
empire down. 

450
00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:13,000
One to go. 
Yeah. 

451
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:14,000
Right. 
Right. 

452
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:20,900
And I don't I don't think you 
can look at The History of the 

453
00:27:20,908 --> 00:27:25,800
United States, honestly, and and
think that we are a shining 

454
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,800
Beacon of morality. 
Like that doesn't mean that 

455
00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:30,600
people in the United States are 
awful. 

456
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,200
Like I like Americans, I like us
but it means that you just 

457
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:35,400
shouldn't have faith in 
governments. 

458
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,500
Like I thought that was a 
conservative idea, right? 

459
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,000
Like I thought, conservatives 
are the ones who are supposed to

460
00:27:40,008 --> 00:27:41,700
be skeptical of government 
power. 

461
00:27:42,900 --> 00:27:44,800
And I agree with that. 
I think you should always be 

462
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,500
skeptical, skeptical of 
government. 

463
00:27:48,100 --> 00:27:51,400
So anyway, it's It's just it's 
nonsense. 

464
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:57,100
I quoted George. 
Orwell in 1984 talking about 

465
00:27:57,100 --> 00:27:59,800
this kind of propaganda. 
I think people should should 

466
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:03,300
keep that in mind where he said 
it's just sort of like It's not 

467
00:28:03,300 --> 00:28:05,200
even human speech. 
It's not somebody using their 

468
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,900
brain. 
It just sounds like a duck 

469
00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:08,100
quacking. 
Yeah. 

470
00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:12,900
This is so important to point 
out John because the right 

471
00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:15,800
always seems to get away with 
it, they just invent these terms

472
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,000
and you know why don't we do 
that? 

473
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:21,200
Why don't why don't we come up 
with our own language? 

474
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,900
Just take a page out of their 
book and start using language 

475
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,100
words to change the world for 
the better. 

476
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:30,500
Not do it in the way that they 
do it. 

477
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,700
We have a few smart people on 
our side of the fence, right? 

478
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,600
Can't we do this? 
What they do, but do it for a 

479
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,900
good cause? 
Yeah, I mean, I absolutely think

480
00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:41,700
that we could do this and it is 
kind of amazing. 

481
00:28:41,700 --> 00:28:46,800
Like people who like words, like
do tend to be sort of 

482
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,100
progressive like that. 
Those two things often go 

483
00:28:49,100 --> 00:28:52,500
together and people. 
You know who hate words and 

484
00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:54,600
hate, the fact that they can be 
used for honest communication 

485
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:59,100
you know, to be conservative and
so I completely agree with you. 

486
00:28:59,108 --> 00:29:02,000
I think it's amazing that that 
progressives have failed like 

487
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,900
this but that doesn't mean that 
we can't succeed in the future, 

488
00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:06,300
you know. 
There's some really, really 

489
00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:10,700
interesting experiments I think 
happening online right now where

490
00:29:10,700 --> 00:29:13,000
where people are recognizing 
that so I think there should be 

491
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,300
a lot more of that and I'm 
confident that we can do it. 

492
00:29:16,300 --> 00:29:19,800
The only problem is that you 
know what you really want is for

493
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,300
people to encourage Courage 
people to think these things 

494
00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:27,000
through for themselves and 
that's a much more long and 

495
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:33,000
laborious project than just 
shutting down thought and it 

496
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,200
takes longer, but I think you 
get better results in the long 

497
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,100
run, so I'm hoping that we can 
pull it off. 

498
00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:42,100
You know, I have a huge amount 
of admiration for ilhan, Omar 

499
00:29:42,500 --> 00:29:45,200
representing the people of 
Minneapolis thing in Congress, 

500
00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:50,100
but this pile on, that seems to 
take place every few months on 

501
00:29:50,100 --> 00:29:53,000
her. 
We're Republicans and Democrats 

502
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,000
get together to just beat up on 
her. 

503
00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:01,800
Try to weaken her influence. 
They tried very hard to get her 

504
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:06,300
removed in the last election. 
She was up for second term and 

505
00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:09,300
she crushed it. 
She won by an overwhelming 

506
00:30:10,100 --> 00:30:14,900
majority, but I'm sick of this. 
I'm sick of this pile on that, 

507
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,500
that the leadership does on her.
And I wanted to stop and I don't

508
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:24,000
want them to get away with it. 
It and and I want I want our 

509
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,200
kids. 
I want people across the country

510
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:30,000
to listen to her because she's 
saying some very important 

511
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:33,500
things. 
Yeah I'm completely completely 

512
00:30:33,500 --> 00:30:35,800
with you, she's extremely 
impressive person. 

513
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:41,400
Be willing to like the stand-up 
tell the truth and face me 

514
00:30:42,100 --> 00:30:43,300
weird. 
Crazy. 

515
00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:47,600
Scary consequences and again 
this is something where like 

516
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:52,000
this is not for ordained the 
like you can go and yell At your

517
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,500
elected representatives. 
But equally people in the house 

518
00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:57,300
and you saw some people who are 
willing to stand up and say like

519
00:30:57,300 --> 00:30:59,900
this is wrong, we should not be 
doing this on the Democratic 

520
00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:02,300
side. 
There were not a chance finally,

521
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:02,900
right? 
Yeah. 

522
00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:08,000
And that was great to see and 
there could be more you know? 

523
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,600
And so that's that's something 
that is in our hands. 

524
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:14,100
Like that's something that we 
can make happen and so I 

525
00:31:14,100 --> 00:31:15,800
encourage people to think about 
that to do it. 

526
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,600
You brought up the israel-gaza 
tragedy that's been going on. 

527
00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:28,100
The killing of so many civilians
in Gaza by the Israeli military.

528
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,700
During all of this, there was 
another little story that 

529
00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:37,000
happened here in the US 
regarding this savagery that was

530
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,800
going on. 
And that got very little notice 

531
00:31:40,900 --> 00:31:44,000
an AP reporter by the name of 
Emily Wilder. 

532
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,700
And you wrote about this, you 
wrote about her, they fired her,

533
00:31:47,700 --> 00:31:54,000
the AP fired her as CNN, 
Reported the story John they 

534
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,000
wrote before. 
Joining the Associated Press 

535
00:31:57,500 --> 00:32:00,800
Emily. 
Wilder was an active member of 

536
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,400
pro-palestinian groups at her 
college. 

537
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,400
She was a proponent of 
Palestinian the hold on to your 

538
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,700
seats here. 
Palestinian human rights and a 

539
00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:15,200
Critic of the Israeli 
government. 

540
00:32:15,900 --> 00:32:20,700
Last week during the height of 
the recent war war, I love that 

541
00:32:20,900 --> 00:32:25,300
the war between Israel and the 
Palestinians nuclear power 

542
00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:30,200
versus people that are sending a
little helium balloons with a 

543
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:35,600
semi lighter fluid in them, the 
Stanford College Republicans. 

544
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,500
Okay, this is a group, they 
called out Wilder for her tweets

545
00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:44,200
and soon after the AP fired, er,
a unanimous decision among 

546
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:49,000
senior, Jurors at the AP the AP 
believes that Wilders. 

547
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,000
Tweets could have put its 
journalists in danger. 

548
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,200
If a perception exists that the 
AP is taking sides in a 

549
00:32:56,208 --> 00:32:59,500
conflict, it could endanger 
journalists who are reporting 

550
00:32:59,500 --> 00:33:03,100
incite a war zone as AP 
journalists were doing at the 

551
00:33:03,100 --> 00:33:07,100
time, Wilder was tweeting this 
blew my mind. 

552
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:13,200
So so they go back to what she 
did in college as a citizen as a

553
00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,800
student. 
And for that she should be fired

554
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:22,600
from her first job here at the 
AP in Arizona. 

555
00:33:22,700 --> 00:33:26,300
I mean this is a perfect example
of something that I've believed 

556
00:33:26,300 --> 00:33:31,100
for a long time, which is that 
Cancel culture, political 

557
00:33:31,100 --> 00:33:33,700
correctness, like it's a huge 
problem in America. 

558
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:37,000
Absolutely, the thing is 90% of 
it comes from the right. 

559
00:33:38,300 --> 00:33:41,200
And there is like Progressive, 
left, wing, cancelled culture, 

560
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,100
and I think that's prodigious, 
and I think that people should 

561
00:33:44,100 --> 00:33:47,300
like be concerned about it. 
But the fact is, this is the 

562
00:33:47,308 --> 00:33:51,300
kind of thing that happens every
single day and no one ever talks

563
00:33:51,300 --> 00:33:53,700
about it. 
It's just taken to be like, 

564
00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:56,200
like, well, this is just the way
the way the world works, but 

565
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,300
this is what cancel culture is 
Emily. 

566
00:33:58,300 --> 00:34:01,900
Wilder, she's only 22. 
I believe. 

567
00:34:01,900 --> 00:34:05,900
She just graduated from college.
She got, you know, this entry 

568
00:34:05,900 --> 00:34:10,800
level position at the Associated
Press working in Arizona, I 

569
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,100
believe, just on the Arizona 
politics like not working on 

570
00:34:14,699 --> 00:34:18,300
u.s. foreign policy or anything 
having to do with Israel and 

571
00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:24,000
during this conflict. 
She like retweeted some things 

572
00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:28,800
said like Said some things 
herself that I think we're all 

573
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:32,000
like pretty Anna died and 
straightforward and then she 

574
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,300
immediately got fired. 
And this was thanks to a 

575
00:34:35,300 --> 00:34:39,400
right-wing pressure campaign. 
I think, even like Tom Cotton 

576
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,500
was talking about this like this
22 year old as this terrible 

577
00:34:42,500 --> 00:34:47,600
danger to American society. 
And we don't know exactly why 

578
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,900
she was fired because the 
Associated Press like devoted to

579
00:34:50,900 --> 00:34:54,600
uncovering the truth refuses to 
say, you know, so we don't know 

580
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,000
what precisely she did. 
She violated their social media 

581
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,400
policy somehow. 
And I just wanted to write 

582
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:07,900
something to remind people that 
the media is always like their 

583
00:35:07,900 --> 00:35:10,700
other there. 
So amazingly liberal, well, the 

584
00:35:10,700 --> 00:35:13,200
history of AP actually is that 
it is a very conservative 

585
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:18,000
organization, you know, it is 
one of the most important news, 

586
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:22,400
organizations in America. 
Like they often are the only 

587
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,700
people at this point covering 
certain stories, right? 

588
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,900
But their history shows, like 
who they are. 

589
00:35:28,900 --> 00:35:31,100
There should have been, no 
surprise that they immediately 

590
00:35:31,100 --> 00:35:33,200
fired her. 
It's like in their DNA. 

591
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,700
It was formed by five New York 
newspapers during the 

592
00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:42,800
Mexican-American War. 
Whenever that was like the 1840s

593
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,700
when we do just stole this 
gigantic chunk of Mexico. 

594
00:35:47,300 --> 00:35:50,300
Yeah. 
You know, is now a I think like 

595
00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:54,200
what the California and lots of 
Texas and Texas. 

596
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:56,500
Yeah. 
And then yeah there's a keyword 

597
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:02,700
One of the places that we stole 
it's called New Mexico history 

598
00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:05,500
they should have they should 
have just called it you know 

599
00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:08,400
Columbus or something. 
Our Mexico. 

600
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,900
Yeah our our Mexico but just 
leaving the word Mexico in their

601
00:36:13,100 --> 00:36:15,700
sort of implies. 
It's not really ours. 

602
00:36:16,700 --> 00:36:19,700
But anyway, so yeah. 
So so the a tell the story 

603
00:36:19,700 --> 00:36:23,600
though, the ap of being why 
they've always been 

604
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:28,700
traditionally very conservative,
that isn't exactly as balanced 

605
00:36:28,700 --> 00:36:31,900
as they would try to. 
They want you to think, right? 

606
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,200
Well, so it was five, New York 
newspapers. 

607
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,100
I wanted to cover the 
Mexican-American war that was 

608
00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:40,300
costly. 
So they decided to, you know, 

609
00:36:40,300 --> 00:36:43,600
share the cost of it and create 
this like Syndicate, where they 

610
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,400
would just pay for coverage and 
then they all the newspapers 

611
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,600
could use it, and it's a bit, 
like, just this, by itself, is 

612
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,500
this kind of Amazing Story. 
The guy Moses, Yale Beach. 

613
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:57,900
Who is the publisher of the New 
York Sun? 

614
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,500
This is how objective AP was 
from the start during the war. 

615
00:37:02,500 --> 00:37:07,600
He traveled to Mexico like on 
orders from the US government 

616
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,600
using a false passport, in an 
attempt to under behind the 

617
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,800
Mexican war effort. 
And so like again, like he 

618
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,800
should probably be fired for 
that violation of objectivity, 

619
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:23,400
the founder Vicki went on, they 
went on to do things like like 

620
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,600
the first. 
AP correspondent who died during

621
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,800
a war. 
Was a guy named Mark Kellogg. 

622
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,000
This was 1876. 
He was leaving to go cover the 

623
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:38,500
Battle of Little Bighorn. 
And his last dispatch was, by 

624
00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:42,100
the time this reaches you, we 
will have met and fought the Red

625
00:37:42,100 --> 00:37:45,200
Devils with what result remains 
to be seen. 

626
00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:48,500
I go with Custer and will be 
there at the death. 

627
00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:55,300
And the Dow was not like I may 
be in danger of dying at the 

628
00:37:55,308 --> 00:37:57,700
death was a phrase. 
From fox hunting. 

629
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:01,500
We're like you're there when the
animals are run to ground and 

630
00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:04,600
killed, so he was anticipating 
going to see the Red Devils 

631
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,500
being slaughtered again. 
How liberal can you get? 

632
00:38:08,900 --> 00:38:13,300
And, you know, to to this guy's 
surprise both he and Custer 

633
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:16,900
ended up dead instead. 
Instead of killing these inhuman

634
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:22,600
creatures that went on. 
Like, during the late 1900s, the

635
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,400
early 20th century. 
They were extraordinarily 

636
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,500
anti-labor. 
They tried to get a no Miss 

637
00:38:29,500 --> 00:38:32,800
succeeded getting like other 
journalists thrown in jail for 

638
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,100
making fun of them. 
Like there's a famous cartoon 

639
00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:38,900
about the AP where they almost 
made that happen and there's a 

640
00:38:38,908 --> 00:38:43,600
great book, Upton Sinclair, 
famous for the Jungle, the sort 

641
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,500
of the muckraking book about the
meat industry in the early 20th 

642
00:38:46,500 --> 00:38:49,900
century wrote, another book, 
that was very famous at the 

643
00:38:49,908 --> 00:38:52,800
time, called The Brass check, 
which is all about the news 

644
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,000
industry and how terrible it was
in the US. 

645
00:38:55,900 --> 00:39:00,800
In a big section of the book is 
about a pea justjust their lives

646
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,900
and their unwillingness to ever 
correct their laws Seymour. 

647
00:39:04,900 --> 00:39:09,000
Hersh said that he worked for AP
for a while because it actually 

648
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:11,700
does provide like good training 
for journalists and in the 

649
00:39:11,700 --> 00:39:14,000
beginning of their careers. 
And there are tons of great 

650
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,200
journalist who worked for the AP
is just like the management 

651
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:17,400
would allow them to tell the 
truth. 

652
00:39:17,700 --> 00:39:19,500
He said he could never have 
covered the meal. 

653
00:39:19,500 --> 00:39:24,600
I'm a sucker for a pee and most 
recently. 

654
00:39:25,700 --> 00:39:30,600
One of the ugliest examples of 
this is that Robert parry and 

655
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:35,600
Brian Barger were AP reporters 
in Central America and they were

656
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,000
covering the story about how we 
were supporting the contras. 

657
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,600
The contrary, who are trying to 
overthrow the government of 

658
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:48,500
Nicaragua and they had uncovered
what, you know what? 

659
00:39:48,500 --> 00:39:51,800
We now know to be the truth with
his CIA itself has acknowledged 

660
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,900
is true, is that a lot of the 
leaders of the contras were 

661
00:39:54,900 --> 00:39:57,400
involved in Cocaine. 
Smuggling a lot of this cocaine 

662
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,400
ended up in the United States? 
The the Central Intelligence 

663
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,000
Agency knew about this and 
didn't do anything because the 

664
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,500
conference were too valuable to 
us and so they stopped any 

665
00:40:05,500 --> 00:40:08,300
investigation of what was going 
on and couldn't. 

666
00:40:08,300 --> 00:40:10,900
And here's the hilarious thing. 
Like this is how history is 

667
00:40:10,900 --> 00:40:14,300
made. 
These guys had filed their story

668
00:40:15,100 --> 00:40:20,500
and a pee. made them go through 
this crazy round of edits taking

669
00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:23,700
out, a lot of the most important
stuff and then finally killed 

670
00:40:23,700 --> 00:40:30,500
it, but it was still there in 
the AP computer system and Like 

671
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:34,300
an AA nighttime. 
Spanish-language editor. 

672
00:40:34,300 --> 00:40:37,800
Yeah, because they also have a 
spanish-language wire saw it in 

673
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:39,500
the system. 
Didn't realize it was not 

674
00:40:39,500 --> 00:40:41,200
supposed to be published and ran
it. 

675
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,900
Hmm it just it just is you know 
it was just escaped escaped from

676
00:40:46,900 --> 00:40:51,100
the lab wow. 
And then AP had actually posted 

677
00:40:51,100 --> 00:40:55,700
an English so it's just that 
this is who AP is this is as I 

678
00:40:55,700 --> 00:40:58,000
say, one of the most important 
news organizations in the United

679
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:02,800
States and They often is not try
to prevent the truth from 

680
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:04,500
getting out. 
And again I want to emphasize 

681
00:41:04,500 --> 00:41:05,500
like that's that's the 
management there. 

682
00:41:05,500 --> 00:41:09,000
Tons and tons of really, really 
good AP reporters but it's a 

683
00:41:09,008 --> 00:41:12,100
struggle for them to report the 
news John. 

684
00:41:12,100 --> 00:41:15,300
Let me see if I can. 
Just can I go into another thing

685
00:41:15,300 --> 00:41:19,300
that you've written about here 
lately that has caught my eye 

686
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,100
and it's this is just driven me 
crazy. 

687
00:41:23,100 --> 00:41:27,100
And you know, for those of us 
who did grow up in the working 

688
00:41:27,100 --> 00:41:31,800
class who come from Union 
families, Who understand what 

689
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:36,300
the struggle is all about, when 
it comes to work and being paid 

690
00:41:36,300 --> 00:41:41,200
properly and and having some 
form of benefits to make life a 

691
00:41:41,207 --> 00:41:46,100
little easier. 
You know, the Press has been 

692
00:41:46,100 --> 00:41:48,900
harping on this thing over the 
last couple weeks that 

693
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,300
businesses just can't find 
workers. 

694
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,000
You know, there's the workers 
aren't coming back to work and 

695
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,700
the reason they're not coming 
back to work is because we've 

696
00:41:57,700 --> 00:42:00,000
given them too much. 
Unemployment, we going Um too 

697
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,900
much stimulus money and and we 
got to stop handing out all this

698
00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:08,600
free money because they're not 
coming back to work, to flip 

699
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:13,800
some burgers and and to be a, 
you know, I just this thing is 

700
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,400
just sort of every time and it 
seems like every day there's 

701
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:22,400
some story about the worker 
shortage and and you wrote about

702
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,500
this and I just thought men, you
know, you really nailed this in 

703
00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:29,600
the sense that what are they 
really trying to? 

704
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,400
say here, when they're, when 
they're talking about this and 

705
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:39,900
why why are they punking on 
working people often the Working

706
00:42:39,900 --> 00:42:45,900
Poor, who have been perhaps 
wanting to take their time and 

707
00:42:45,900 --> 00:42:50,800
think about the getting back to 
the old normal because the old 

708
00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:56,900
normal Hasn't been very good for
the working people of this 

709
00:42:56,900 --> 00:43:03,800
country and and now they have 
some leverage to say, you know 

710
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:08,400
what, maybe work in America 
should be looked at in a 

711
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:11,400
different way and maybe you're 
going to have to treat us 

712
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,600
differently. 
I'll just let you take it from 

713
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:16,100
there because I just thought 
what you were saying about this 

714
00:43:16,100 --> 00:43:20,800
and and again, very little 
criticism of the media, just now

715
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:25,500
they've got their the new Moral 
equivalency is now, the worker 

716
00:43:25,500 --> 00:43:27,700
shortage? 
Oh my God. 

717
00:43:27,700 --> 00:43:31,300
The worker shortage just just 
sure. 

718
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,400
Share with people listening to 
this episode. 

719
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,000
Your thoughts about this? 
Yeah, well, I hope you can read 

720
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,000
this. 
You have to understand that the 

721
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,800
idea of a worker shortage, like 
whatever that is like in the 

722
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:49,200
context of history and I would 
actually say your family is an 

723
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:51,400
important example of that 
history. 

724
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:57,300
Like I've always Believed that 
like people may not know this 

725
00:43:57,300 --> 00:44:00,500
but like you're not the only 
person in your family like 

726
00:44:00,500 --> 00:44:03,700
you're not the only sibling who 
has caused enormous irritation 

727
00:44:03,700 --> 00:44:06,700
to the people running the world.
Yes, it's true. 

728
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:12,400
You know, I know the activities 
of your sister and the best and 

729
00:44:12,500 --> 00:44:15,100
I guarantee you that there are a
lot of people, a lot of offices 

730
00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:21,200
who are very unhappy about and 
more and like I think they like,

731
00:44:21,500 --> 00:44:24,300
like if you're the people in 
charge Art and they look at the 

732
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:29,300
Moore family and the three 
siblings and like, we'd let like

733
00:44:29,300 --> 00:44:33,500
one guy. 
One dad create a decent life for

734
00:44:33,500 --> 00:44:37,800
his family working, in an auto 
plant and then look what happens

735
00:44:39,900 --> 00:44:42,400
look like you. 
Give this one family. 

736
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,800
This little bit of wiggle room 
and they go crazy. 

737
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,700
Like we've got to shut this down
immediately, right? 

738
00:44:49,700 --> 00:44:52,100
But this is the story of 
millions of families though. 

739
00:44:52,700 --> 00:44:57,900
And and millions of people who 
were raised by moms and dads, 

740
00:44:58,100 --> 00:45:00,900
who worked on assembly lines, 
who worked in cubicles, who 

741
00:45:00,900 --> 00:45:05,500
work, you know, scrubbing, 
floors and what we called our 

742
00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:09,900
essential workers that we were. 
So you know, so grateful for 

743
00:45:09,900 --> 00:45:13,500
during the pandemic. 
And now since things have 

744
00:45:13,500 --> 00:45:15,700
started to open up a little bit 
now it's time to go back to 

745
00:45:15,900 --> 00:45:20,000
punking on the people who are 
the people who take care of you 

746
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:24,100
and who keep your floors clean. 
And who build your cars and all 

747
00:45:24,100 --> 00:45:28,900
this other stuff and it's just 
it's it's I just want to call 

748
00:45:28,900 --> 00:45:34,000
the media out on this. 
It's it until the real story as 

749
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,100
to. 
Why why working people in this 

750
00:45:37,100 --> 00:45:44,300
country are are not only just 
still trying to survive to get 

751
00:45:44,300 --> 00:45:49,300
through this pandemic. 
It's not over for them, and 

752
00:45:49,300 --> 00:45:51,900
they've lost so many people in 
their families, and their 

753
00:45:51,900 --> 00:45:55,200
extended. 
Emily's, the 600,000 plus just 

754
00:45:55,200 --> 00:46:00,100
in this country deserve more 
respect than being ridiculed. 

755
00:46:00,100 --> 00:46:04,700
It seems on the news, every day 
for sitting around sitting 

756
00:46:04,700 --> 00:46:09,800
around, you know, with their big
stimulus checks, not getting 

757
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,500
back and doing the work. 
We need them to do, right? 

758
00:46:12,700 --> 00:46:16,600
It's incredible. 
Like it is as it is so uniform 

759
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,400
in the media and so uniform 
among politicians. 

760
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,100
It makes you think that there 
must be like some like central 

761
00:46:23,100 --> 00:46:25,100
office where they're sending out
marching orders and I didn't 

762
00:46:25,100 --> 00:46:28,500
even think she actually true but
just like the uniformity of it 

763
00:46:28,500 --> 00:46:30,400
is amazing. 
And in to understand it to 

764
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,500
understand why they're so angry.
You really have to go back and 

765
00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:39,100
look at this long long history 
of the idea of worker shortages 

766
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:44,500
because if you have some sort of
big business Enterprise, there's

767
00:46:44,500 --> 00:46:49,100
a core problem which is how do 
you get people to do, terrible 

768
00:46:49,100 --> 00:46:52,400
jobs for terrible pay. 
Like what what is? 

769
00:46:52,500 --> 00:46:55,800
The answer to that and you know 
originally the answer in North 

770
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:59,700
America was slavery like you 
just don't give them any choice 

771
00:46:59,900 --> 00:47:05,000
and I think people don't know 
that Native Americans were 

772
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:08,100
subjected to a lot of slavery. 
Like there was, there were many,

773
00:47:08,100 --> 00:47:11,800
many are millions and millions 
of enslaved, Native Americans, 

774
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:16,000
but it was a problem because it 
just, it was hard to maintain 

775
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:22,800
like, Often people who are 
enslaved, like like the society 

776
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,000
that they were from was not that
far away so they could just run 

777
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:32,500
off and like, rejoin the all the
people that they knew and so 

778
00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:35,000
this, this credited worker 
shortage, this was the first 

779
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,900
worker shortage. 
And so that's one of the reasons

780
00:47:37,900 --> 00:47:41,000
why they're like, hey, let's 
let's steal a lot of people from

781
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:45,900
Africa and enslave them. 
And he amazing thing is like, 

782
00:47:45,900 --> 00:47:47,700
eventually, you know, slavery. 
Was abolished. 

783
00:47:47,700 --> 00:47:53,100
It was you know the British 
abolished slavery in the 1830s. 

784
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,600
But this this is really is 
crazy. 

785
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,500
When you look back at it just 
how straightforward they were 

786
00:47:58,700 --> 00:48:01,500
because they're like okay yeah 
we're getting rid of slavery but

787
00:48:01,500 --> 00:48:04,600
we still need people to work on 
our plantations. 

788
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,800
So right. 
How do we square that Circle? 

789
00:48:08,700 --> 00:48:11,800
And so they were particularly 
worried that they were there was

790
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:15,400
a lot of land available where 
people could just go off and 

791
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,600
like farm the land and They'd be
able to support themselves and 

792
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,900
they wouldn't want to work at 
these terrible jobs. 

793
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:28,400
And so the, this is a direct 
quote from From one of these 

794
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:33,500
guys said, like we need to fix 
such a price upon Crown lands. 

795
00:48:33,900 --> 00:48:40,200
As May place them Out Of Reach 
of persons without capital Wow. 

796
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:44,200
Just dissing it straightforward.
Another guy in Parliament said 

797
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,800
so honest yeah, I know it's like
it's like well thank you. 

798
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,800
Thank you for being so open and 
straightforward about this. 

799
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,200
Another guy in Parliament, the 
British Parliament said, like 

800
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,200
the danger is that the whole, 
the laboring population of the 

801
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,400
West Indies should as soon as 
they become entirely free, 

802
00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:03,900
refuse to work for wages and 
that thus capitalist should be 

803
00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:10,100
left without laborers. 
Well, okay, you know, like how 

804
00:49:10,300 --> 00:49:12,900
at least, at least we're facing 
the problem. 

805
00:49:13,500 --> 00:49:21,900
All right, head on and so, 
That's pretty much how things 

806
00:49:21,900 --> 00:49:26,900
worked out, like, they wanted to
make sure there was no like way 

807
00:49:26,900 --> 00:49:28,900
for people to use or like public
resources. 

808
00:49:28,900 --> 00:49:31,400
The crown lands were public 
lands, right? 

809
00:49:31,900 --> 00:49:34,800
That would prevent them from 
showing up to work every day on 

810
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:39,600
time. 
And they also, I didn't mention 

811
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:41,200
this. 
It's also kind of amazing how 

812
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:42,400
straightforward they were about 
this. 

813
00:49:42,700 --> 00:49:45,300
They also discussed how they had
to addicted people to 

814
00:49:45,300 --> 00:49:50,000
consumerism. 
That they needed people to be 

815
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,400
obsessed with a crime. 
Acquiring like a little 

816
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,800
meaningless Trinkets and that 
the only way they could get the 

817
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:57,900
trinkets was by, you know, 
working for wages. 

818
00:49:57,900 --> 00:50:00,300
And that if they just supported 
themselves, like they would be 

819
00:50:00,300 --> 00:50:02,700
free and they wouldn't have to 
answer to anyone. 

820
00:50:02,700 --> 00:50:06,000
But you know they wouldn't have 
liked the latest dresses from 

821
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:07,600
London and stuff like that. 
Right. 

822
00:50:07,700 --> 00:50:11,500
Right. 
And so that story has been 

823
00:50:11,500 --> 00:50:13,800
re-enacted over and over and 
over again. 

824
00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:18,500
Over the past hundreds of years,
it happened in another form in 

825
00:50:18,500 --> 00:50:22,600
England. 
And that's exactly the thing 

826
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:25,500
that's happening today. 
Like people were getting some 

827
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:28,300
kind of public support, like not
so much that they're going to go

828
00:50:28,300 --> 00:50:31,500
out at blow it on a new car. 
Like they're not going to buy a 

829
00:50:31,500 --> 00:50:35,100
Porsche with this money, but it 
does give them a little wiggle 

830
00:50:35,100 --> 00:50:37,600
room. 
It does give them some leverage 

831
00:50:38,100 --> 00:50:42,400
and you can imagine a world 
where they would want to come 

832
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,200
back to work. 
Where, you know, Like jobs, 

833
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:47,900
don't have to be horrible. 
Like, they really don't like, 

834
00:50:47,900 --> 00:50:51,100
jobs can be a lot of fun, even 
things that we think of, as 

835
00:50:51,100 --> 00:50:55,500
like, menial tasks, if you have 
control over them, maybe maybe 

836
00:50:55,500 --> 00:50:59,500
businesses pay people better. 
They could allow workers to set 

837
00:50:59,500 --> 00:51:02,700
their own, you know, conditions 
for work. 

838
00:51:02,700 --> 00:51:07,100
They could give workers 
ownership of, you know, part of 

839
00:51:07,107 --> 00:51:10,000
the Enterprise but they're not 
interested in that, like the 

840
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:13,300
people who were all like this, 
those are not things that 

841
00:51:13,700 --> 00:51:16,500
capture their Education. 
They want everybody to come back

842
00:51:16,500 --> 00:51:20,300
to work for the federal minimum 
wage which is 725 an hour or you

843
00:51:20,308 --> 00:51:22,700
like even better like the tipped
waitresses even less. 

844
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,900
So as I say it's just like it's 
a core problem of how capitalism

845
00:51:26,900 --> 00:51:29,400
Works. 
They only have one answer for it

846
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,800
and that's what we've been 
seeing happening now and watch 

847
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,600
how she people, you know, when 
they're just talking to friends 

848
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:39,900
or family and this issue comes 
up about, yeah, you know, Bill's

849
00:51:39,900 --> 00:51:43,800
Bar down there, you just can't 
get enough workers and what is 

850
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,100
what? 
What is the clear and simple way

851
00:51:46,100 --> 00:51:52,800
to explain this critical 
capitalism Theory to be two 

852
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:57,600
people when what's really going 
on here, what is the media and 

853
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,200
the government, and the rich 
really saying when they're 

854
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:05,400
complaining about this so-called
worker shortage? 

855
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:08,300
Yeah. 
I mean, the message really is 

856
00:52:08,700 --> 00:52:12,100
the message they have for all of
us is like you better get back 

857
00:52:12,100 --> 00:52:13,700
to work or you're going to 
starve to death. 

858
00:52:14,500 --> 00:52:18,500
And they always want that threat
to be hanging over everybody and

859
00:52:18,700 --> 00:52:22,000
the other way of looking at it, 
which is the right way. 

860
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:27,700
The true way of looking at it. 
Is that like The world like like

861
00:52:27,700 --> 00:52:30,800
like America is an incredibly 
rich country and this wealth was

862
00:52:30,900 --> 00:52:35,200
created by everybody. 
You know, that's that's just a 

863
00:52:35,207 --> 00:52:38,900
fact. 
Like, that's a basic fact, Jeff 

864
00:52:38,900 --> 00:52:40,600
Bezos didn't invent the 
internet? 

865
00:52:41,100 --> 00:52:42,800
Yeah. 
The inventor, the internet was 

866
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,300
invented by all of us. 
It was in fact, like based on a 

867
00:52:46,300 --> 00:52:51,400
ton of government research in 
spending and so the idea that 

868
00:52:51,900 --> 00:52:56,800
the SuperDuper wealthy can just 
use the stuff like capture the 

869
00:52:56,800 --> 00:53:02,300
wealth that was created by all 
of us is just it's morally wrong

870
00:53:02,300 --> 00:53:06,500
and it leads to a world that is 
much much uglier than it needs 

871
00:53:06,500 --> 00:53:10,000
to be. 
And so like these are really 

872
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,700
deep questions, but once people 
start thinking about them, I 

873
00:53:12,700 --> 00:53:16,300
think that they grasp it pretty 
quickly and just, I would really

874
00:53:16,300 --> 00:53:17,000
encourage. 
Yes. 

875
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,900
Like, like a lot of people just 
understand this intuitively 

876
00:53:19,900 --> 00:53:22,700
right because it is obvious 
depending on the family, right? 

877
00:53:22,700 --> 00:53:24,700
Erupted. 
And what kind of life you had? 

878
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:28,000
Yes. 
Yes, my family understands it, 

879
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:29,800
right. 
And I think a lot of people 

880
00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:36,400
who've grown up that way. 
But but what, why does the media

881
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:40,000
participate in this? 
Because some many of them grew 

882
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:43,500
up in a working-class home. 
Many of them saw their parents 

883
00:53:43,500 --> 00:53:45,300
struggle. 
Why? 

884
00:53:45,300 --> 00:53:49,400
Even put this kind of propaganda
out there like this, during this

885
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:55,500
time when we're trying trying to
get back to some sense. 

886
00:53:55,600 --> 00:54:01,200
Sense of people being able to 
get by just to get by and and 

887
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:06,700
not get sick, not get sick. 
Yeah, you know, I wish I knew 

888
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,800
but I would say like, look at 
AP, you know, and Upton 

889
00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:12,900
Sinclair's book. 
He actually talks about having a

890
00:54:12,908 --> 00:54:17,100
discussion with like an AP 
editor and the editor says, you 

891
00:54:17,100 --> 00:54:23,900
know, I'm a socialist. like, 
That's what I believe but I 

892
00:54:23,900 --> 00:54:27,800
would be fired tomorrow. 
If I allowed any of my thoughts 

893
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,200
about the world, you know, make 
it onto the wire. 

894
00:54:30,900 --> 00:54:33,700
And so I think lots of 
journalists absolutely do no 

895
00:54:33,700 --> 00:54:36,300
better some don't, but I think a
lot of them absolutely do. 

896
00:54:36,300 --> 00:54:38,800
It's just these are the rules of
the road like there is not a 

897
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:43,100
whole lot of of freedom to call 
things as you see them. 

898
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,800
I have like two more hours of 
things I want to talk to you 

899
00:54:45,808 --> 00:54:49,400
about but we can't so promise to
come back. 

900
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:53,400
Okay, will you come back? 
To talk about things like this 

901
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:58,700
because it's this has been very 
uplifting for me just to get 

902
00:54:58,700 --> 00:55:02,800
into these two, three, four 
things just in the last month 

903
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,900
that just disappeared, just 
disappeared. 

904
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,600
And I think one of the great 
things that you do, and The 

905
00:55:08,600 --> 00:55:14,100
Intercept does is to keep us 
focused on these things and 

906
00:55:14,100 --> 00:55:16,100
other things. 
The story behind the story 

907
00:55:16,100 --> 00:55:20,200
behind the story and it's what 
you and the others they're do. 

908
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:22,600
So. 
Well, your much needed in people

909
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:25,600
if you don't know what the 
intercept is, I will have here 

910
00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:30,000
on this on the platform page of 
this podcast, you will see links

911
00:55:30,300 --> 00:55:32,300
not only to these different 
things. 

912
00:55:32,300 --> 00:55:34,800
I've referred to that John has 
written about. 

913
00:55:35,200 --> 00:55:38,500
You can read his writings on 
this and also too. 

914
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:42,700
I think they also we should put 
up the link to get Upton. 

915
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,500
Sinclair's the brass check, I 
mean, I think is incredibly 

916
00:55:46,500 --> 00:55:48,700
interesting like you're 
interested in like this, kind of

917
00:55:48,700 --> 00:55:50,100
stuff is something that you're 
into. 

918
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:55,000
It is like it reads like it was 
written yesterday and, you know,

919
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:56,700
it's free online. 
You know, it's 100 years old. 

920
00:55:56,700 --> 00:55:59,500
I think the copyright has 
expired, so go check it out. 

921
00:55:59,500 --> 00:56:00,900
It's a free book. 
Yes. 

922
00:56:01,900 --> 00:56:04,600
And you know, it's one I've 
wanted to read for some time and

923
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:07,800
I'm now going to thank you for 
the recommendation for me. 

924
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:09,700
This will be my book of the 
week. 

925
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:16,500
The, but before we go, John 
just, is there anything else we 

926
00:56:16,500 --> 00:56:17,900
need to be thinking about right 
now? 

927
00:56:17,900 --> 00:56:19,900
Maybe something that. 
Obviously I haven't brought it 

928
00:56:19,900 --> 00:56:22,500
up. 
In this episode but you've been 

929
00:56:22,500 --> 00:56:24,700
thinking about it or something 
that you want. 

930
00:56:24,900 --> 00:56:27,800
You are going to be writing 
about in the next week or two or

931
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:31,200
three. 
But just to give us a just a 

932
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:37,600
hint of that or to stimulate our
own brains, in terms of what we 

933
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:39,500
should not be ignoring right 
now. 

934
00:56:39,700 --> 00:56:42,700
Well something that I'm working 
on, that should be coming out in

935
00:56:42,700 --> 00:56:50,200
the next couple of weeks is 
about the enormous like 

936
00:56:51,700 --> 00:56:58,000
Yammering about the idea that 
the coronavirus escaped from a 

937
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:02,600
lab in China. 
And like, I should say this, 

938
00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:06,400
like I really, I'm kind of 
allergic to speculation about 

939
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:12,400
this by people who don't have 
PhD sort of stuff because like, 

940
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,600
it is a kind of thing where you 
need a lot of specialized 

941
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:19,400
knowledge. 
But I just want to remind people

942
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:24,300
of the Iraq weapons of mass 
destruction, the story because I

943
00:57:24,300 --> 00:57:27,700
paid super close attention to 
that and I was so frustrated by 

944
00:57:27,700 --> 00:57:29,300
the fact that no one would 
listen to. 

945
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,200
By saying that I actually bet 
somebody a thousand dollars that

946
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:34,600
are rock wouldn't have anything.
Wow. 

947
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:36,600
Yeah. 
And the guy came through like he

948
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:42,900
paid up in the end and one key 
thing I think you need to 

949
00:57:42,900 --> 00:57:46,500
understand is that at the time, 
everybody was like, look, the 

950
00:57:46,500 --> 00:57:49,800
Iraqi government is acting so 
suspiciously, obviously, they're

951
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:51,800
they're covering up the fact 
that they have weapons of mass 

952
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:54,500
destruction. 
And the truth is, they were 

953
00:57:54,500 --> 00:57:57,100
acting suspiciously and they 
were covering things up. 

954
00:57:57,300 --> 00:58:00,900
But they were covering Not the 
fact that they had weapons of 

955
00:58:00,908 --> 00:58:03,400
mass destruction, but all kinds 
of stuff that was totally 

956
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:07,100
invisible to us and seems crazy 
in retrospect, it was stuff like

957
00:58:07,300 --> 00:58:11,100
the head of their biological 
weapons program had secretly 

958
00:58:11,100 --> 00:58:14,700
destroyed their Anthrax at the 
end of the Gulf War in 1991. 

959
00:58:14,700 --> 00:58:18,600
So they didn't have anything 
left but she would not say where

960
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:24,100
she had destroyed it and we 
later found out that the reason 

961
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,700
again, it wasn't that they had 
tons of Anthrax that they were 

962
00:58:27,700 --> 00:58:30,600
hiding. 
It was that She had destroyed 

963
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,400
and outside of one of Saddam 
Hussein's palaces and she didn't

964
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:36,700
want him to know like and I 
wouldn't want it on fire you 

965
00:58:36,700 --> 00:58:39,100
know, to know that about me 
destroying the anthrax either 

966
00:58:39,100 --> 00:58:40,900
like he could really see where 
she was coming from. 

967
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,500
So anyway the point is just that
like I have absolutely no idea 

968
00:58:45,500 --> 00:58:49,400
what the truth is about the 
coronavirus and I mean sure like

969
00:58:49,400 --> 00:58:52,800
it's maybe that happened but the
fact that the Chinese government

970
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:56,500
is acting suspiciously like 
doesn't get you very far so I 

971
00:58:56,500 --> 00:58:58,400
think that's I think that's 
something that's important for 

972
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,200
people to know and I'm To go 
into sort of more detail about 

973
00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:04,000
in this article. 
And now there's a second thing 

974
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:06,800
that that I want to say, I want 
to make sure that I get this in 

975
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:10,900
before the end of the podcast. 
Which is that I am going to 

976
00:59:10,900 --> 00:59:15,600
reveal your deepest darkest 
secret and I know you're not 

977
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:18,400
trying to make you uncomfortable
but I mean me, you me me? 

978
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:19,700
Yeah. 
Oh my God. 

979
00:59:19,700 --> 00:59:22,800
Yeah and and but you know look 
like I'm a journalist and my job

980
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,800
is to report the truth and just 
let the chips fall where they 

981
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:30,000
may now, I don't know if you're 
minded men, Lately when here. 

982
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,900
But I just want to give you a 
clue about what I'm about to 

983
00:59:32,900 --> 00:59:38,300
say. 
So there's a land that I see 

984
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:44,600
where the children are free. 
So, I think, you know where I'm 

985
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:46,200
going here, which is. 
Okay. 

986
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:48,900
So you know what I'm talking 
about, right? 

987
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:50,500
Yes, I do. 
Yeah. 

988
00:59:50,500 --> 00:59:53,700
And I know you've been trying to
write this out of History. 

989
00:59:54,100 --> 00:59:58,100
Hmm. 
But the truth is one of your 

990
00:59:58,100 --> 01:00:03,100
first papers was, I believe Hold
free to be yes, one of my yes, a

991
01:00:03,107 --> 01:00:06,000
my youth. 
I put out a little paper called 

992
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:11,300
free to be and I actually like, 
honestly, I think that is 

993
01:00:11,300 --> 01:00:14,300
beautiful because I love that 
record people. 

994
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:16,500
This again, actually is 
something that has kind of been 

995
01:00:16,500 --> 01:00:18,400
forgotten. 
I've been shocked to find, but 

996
01:00:18,900 --> 01:00:21,500
Marlo Thomas, and a bunch of her
Show Business friends, put out a

997
01:00:21,508 --> 01:00:24,500
record in the 1970s. 
I think it's also like a TV 

998
01:00:24,500 --> 01:00:27,200
special, something called free 
to be you and me, right? 

999
01:00:27,300 --> 01:00:29,300
And it is like, I think it's 
beautiful. 

1000
01:00:29,400 --> 01:00:34,600
Like it's like fantastic songs 
and they're all about, you know,

1001
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,300
men should do housework and 
Rosey Grier. 

1002
01:00:38,300 --> 01:00:40,800
You know this who I think was a 
defensive lineman is that right?

1003
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:43,400
Yes. 
Like this huge Guy saying like 

1004
01:00:43,400 --> 01:00:49,700
it's okay for men to cry and I 
it's wonderful but it is sort of

1005
01:00:49,700 --> 01:00:55,200
a kind of cultural moment that 
strikes people a little bit 

1006
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:55,800
strange. 
Now? 

1007
01:00:56,100 --> 01:00:57,500
Yeah, I just want to make it 
clear. 

1008
01:00:57,500 --> 01:00:59,200
I had nothing. 
I was not connected. 

1009
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:05,200
The free to be TV. 
This is way back in in Flint 

1010
01:01:05,900 --> 01:01:08,300
when I thought maybe we should 
start some newspaper or 

1011
01:01:08,308 --> 01:01:09,900
something. 
Well what could we call it? 

1012
01:01:10,300 --> 01:01:16,000
I don't know man. 
How about like free to be and so

1013
01:01:16,300 --> 01:01:21,100
so it lasted for about a year or
so and yes, it was called free 

1014
01:01:21,100 --> 01:01:23,000
to be. 
I'm not ashamed of it. 

1015
01:01:24,100 --> 01:01:27,300
There were secrets of mine. 
You could have revealed but but 

1016
01:01:27,300 --> 01:01:32,100
that one time I will I'm proud 
of it and in the fact that I got

1017
01:01:32,100 --> 01:01:35,600
you, I've never heard you sing. 
So the fact that you saying, on 

1018
01:01:35,600 --> 01:01:39,300
my podcast, makes it all the 
better here. 

1019
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:43,600
I know I wanted to get into 
talking about this awful vote on

1020
01:01:43,600 --> 01:01:47,900
the Senate this week on are all 
the Voting Rights things that 

1021
01:01:47,900 --> 01:01:50,600
we're trying to get past. 
This this is not going away. 

1022
01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:54,200
I know people are going to be 
very active here over the 

1023
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:57,900
Congressional break, over the 
holiday to contact their 

1024
01:01:57,900 --> 01:02:01,900
senators in there. 
Dates and demand that this 

1025
01:02:01,900 --> 01:02:04,500
capacity and we have to demand 
that the Biden. 

1026
01:02:04,800 --> 01:02:06,700
And the Democrats have to get 
rid of the filibuster. 

1027
01:02:06,700 --> 01:02:10,200
This has got to end right now or
we're not going to get any of 

1028
01:02:10,207 --> 01:02:12,200
these things that we need. 
I mean I know you. 

1029
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:15,500
I've seen you tweet about this, 
you've talked about this but 

1030
01:02:15,900 --> 01:02:21,900
man, we John, we this is, this 
is a critical moment. 

1031
01:02:21,900 --> 01:02:23,700
Yeah, no, I agree. 
People should look this up 

1032
01:02:23,700 --> 01:02:27,300
before the people act. 
It's incredible to me that the 

1033
01:02:27,300 --> 01:02:29,900
Democrats have not gone out. 
Absolutely. 

1034
01:02:29,900 --> 01:02:34,600
All out to past this because 
they need it just to win 

1035
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:36,400
elections. 
Like Joe manchin needs it. 

1036
01:02:36,500 --> 01:02:40,700
Like if he wants to run again, 
it's it would actually change a 

1037
01:02:40,700 --> 01:02:44,100
lot of like the core structural 
problems of democracy in the 

1038
01:02:44,100 --> 01:02:46,300
United States and the Democrats 
need it. 

1039
01:02:46,300 --> 01:02:49,000
Like, if they want to exercise 
power at any point in the 

1040
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:51,000
future, like they've got to pass
this now. 

1041
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:56,600
So check this out again, like a 
go yell at the people in power, 

1042
01:02:57,500 --> 01:03:00,300
do everything you can like, if 
You would like for the United 

1043
01:03:00,300 --> 01:03:03,100
States to continue to have any 
kind of way for normal people to

1044
01:03:03,100 --> 01:03:05,300
have input into what happens 
like like this has got to 

1045
01:03:05,300 --> 01:03:07,800
happen. 
Well, I can't say enough about 

1046
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:11,100
it and I'll be talking about it 
on social media here, this week.

1047
01:03:11,100 --> 01:03:17,600
Next week, our upcoming podcasts
and this is my friends. 

1048
01:03:17,600 --> 01:03:20,500
Everybody, I don't need to tell 
you how important this is that 

1049
01:03:20,500 --> 01:03:22,200
we get this passed. 
And we get rid of this 

1050
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:25,300
filibuster, we're not going to 
get anything done for the next 

1051
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:30,600
year and a half, I guess in. 
Closing have, we've covered so 

1052
01:03:30,600 --> 01:03:35,200
much stuff. 
I'm thanks for talking about 

1053
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:41,000
the, our government, paying for,
and training, the Assassins of 

1054
01:03:41,100 --> 01:03:48,600
Jamal khashoggi and in moments, 
like this to, I just think his 

1055
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:53,600
family. 
Whether it's his family that's 

1056
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:58,400
here in the US what our family 
he has back home in Saudi Arabia

1057
01:03:58,400 --> 01:04:02,600
or whatever. 
When I read this story here in 

1058
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:06,700
this came out this past week, 
I'm just speaking just as an 

1059
01:04:06,700 --> 01:04:09,200
individual, but I feel this 
stuff individual. 

1060
01:04:09,200 --> 01:04:11,300
I feel. 
This is a person is an American 

1061
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,900
that my government, my tax 
dollars. 

1062
01:04:16,300 --> 01:04:22,100
Went to murdering him. 
And it was done in my name. 

1063
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:28,100
And so, then I take it very 
personally, and so should any 

1064
01:04:28,100 --> 01:04:31,700
friend, family member, whatever 
of mr. 

1065
01:04:31,700 --> 01:04:35,600
Khashoggi happens to be 
listening to this podcast. 

1066
01:04:36,700 --> 01:04:44,500
I would like to offer my It's 
not even enough to say this 

1067
01:04:44,700 --> 01:04:49,100
sincerest apologies because it's
not really an apology until we 

1068
01:04:49,100 --> 01:04:54,300
stop this sort of thing. 
This this training that we do 

1069
01:04:54,300 --> 01:04:57,500
and we've always done to help 
murderers around the world. 

1070
01:04:58,500 --> 01:05:04,800
That's on us, my friends and 
John I'm so grateful that you 

1071
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:09,600
come on today so we could talk 
about this but I guess I just 

1072
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:15,000
wanted to close by offering that
to those who knew him personally

1073
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:20,700
to those who are related to him 
that now even more so myself. 

1074
01:05:21,100 --> 01:05:26,200
You listening to this. 
John Schwarz, bezel every all of

1075
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:30,700
us. 
Now, we really, really can't let

1076
01:05:30,700 --> 01:05:33,700
this go. 
And now we there really has to 

1077
01:05:33,700 --> 01:05:40,000
be Justice and we have to stop 
participating in this in this 

1078
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:45,500
kind of evil doing that. 
So much blood on our hands and 

1079
01:05:46,500 --> 01:05:51,600
I'm I'm sickened by it and I'll 
do what I can encourage all of 

1080
01:05:51,600 --> 01:05:55,800
you to do what you can. 
To put an end to this. 

1081
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:57,900
Thank you for letting me say 
that John. 

1082
01:05:57,900 --> 01:06:02,500
I just want to close by offering
that out there. 

1083
01:06:02,500 --> 01:06:05,400
Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm with you. 
And the only thing that I would 

1084
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:09,200
add is that the people who do 
this count on us, getting tired 

1085
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:11,600
going away, right? 
I'd like this is It's a 

1086
01:06:11,607 --> 01:06:13,700
marathon. 
Like we may not find out the 

1087
01:06:13,707 --> 01:06:17,300
truth for 10 years or 20 years 
or 30 years, and it's a good 

1088
01:06:17,300 --> 01:06:21,000
reason to stay alive to keep on 
fighting and finally discover 

1089
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,800
what truly happened. 
And that's First step to 

1090
01:06:23,808 --> 01:06:27,700
stopping it. 
So hang in there is my message? 

1091
01:06:28,000 --> 01:06:31,000
Yes, all of us. 
Yes, now is not the time to give

1092
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:36,100
up and John Schwarz. 
Thank you for the good work that

1093
01:06:36,100 --> 01:06:37,600
you do. 
Thank you for all that. 

1094
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:44,000
You did to help me on my 
projects back in the day and and

1095
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:47,800
keep up the important writing 
that you're doing and please 

1096
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:51,700
come back on Rumble sooner 
rather than later. 

1097
01:06:52,100 --> 01:06:54,100
Absolutely. 
I would, I I'd love to and 

1098
01:06:54,100 --> 01:06:55,800
thanks. 
Thanks for giving me the 

1099
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:59,300
opportunity to talk about my 
favorite weird history 

1100
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,900
everybody. 
This is a John Schwarz that were

1101
01:07:01,900 --> 01:07:06,400
talking to you'll have links on 
my podcast page here to read 

1102
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:10,100
some of his writings and and 
we're all joining the John 

1103
01:07:10,100 --> 01:07:12,000
Schwarz book club in our first 
book that we're going to be 

1104
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:15,300
reading is Upton, Sinclair's the
brass check. 

1105
01:07:15,600 --> 01:07:17,600
Thank you so much John. 
Thank you. 

1106
01:07:17,900 --> 01:07:21,600
So that's it for today. 
Thank you for joining me Rumble 

1107
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:23,100
with Michael Moore. 
I'm Michael Moore. 

1108
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:27,200
Thanks to our executive 
producer, bezel Hamden, our 

1109
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:30,000
editor and sound engineer, and 
you quas, and everybody else. 

1110
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,300
Who had any hand in today's 
episode. 

1111
01:07:32,300 --> 01:07:36,200
Thank you for your support. 
We'll talk to you next week. 

1112
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:40,000
Have a good weekend be. 
Well, don't forget to rumble, 

1113
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:48,900
take care. 
Come with me, take my hand. 

1114
01:08:10,700 --> 01:08:17,600
I see your bright and clear you 
and the times coming here, when 

1115
01:08:17,600 --> 01:08:23,200
will live in this line? 
You and me a hand in hand. 

1116
01:08:23,500 --> 01:08:26,300
Take my hand. 
Come on. 

1117
01:08:26,700 --> 01:08:31,399
Lend your voice to my song. 
Come Along. 

1118
01:08:31,399 --> 01:08:34,399
Take my hand. 
Sing a song.