Old Pirates. Yes, they rob.
I sold. I to the merchant ship.
Minutes after they took, I from the bottomless pit but my hand
was made Strong by the hands. This is Rumble with Michael
Moore and I am nickel War. Welcome everyone to episode 200
of Rumble 200 episodes. In this year and a half.
Wow, I've had one of the best years and a half of my life and
it was awful. Obviously in so many ways
because of the pandemic because I was in my own walk down here
just to protect myself and others.
But the fact that I got to have this time with all of you and
now in episode 200, we speak again.
I feel very blessed and, and very grateful that so many of
you and now we've crossed the 28 million.
Mark of downloads, 28 million downloads of Rumble, by all of
you. Thank you for that.
Thank you for sharing this. This podcast with others today,
we are going to hear from a thoughtful and forceful author,
thinker and activist by the name of Desmond, Cole.
He and I are going to discuss Us policing prisons and how we must
deconstruct these institutions and rethink our priorities, not
only our priorities, but our values and where we actually put
our public money in episode 194 of Rumble.
I shared my idea with all of you for the creation of the
Department of Public, Safety, and compassion as an alternative
to what we now know, as the police and in episode 1, 97.
I then described my idea for the Department of restorative
justice and Redemption, I spoke with scholar damn burger and he
and I put forth to you an idea for an alternative to
incarceration. Prisons.
These are two ideas. I care very deeply about.
And as I announced on these episodes in the past month, this
is going to be a focus of mine here this year that we deal with
this problem that we not just hold an annual anniversary,
remembering the murder of George Floyd but that we all do
something about this. We have to do this.
And so I'm going to keep talking about this and today I'm going
to explore the intellectual underpinnings of both police and
prison. Abolition, with Desmond goal.
Do not be afraid my friends. A lot of people do not want us
talking about this, and I am talking about a lot of so-called
liberals Or democrats who are afraid that.
If we discuss this issue, we will somehow scare away our
fellow Americans into the loving arms of the Republican party.
That is not our problem. Our problem is if we do nothing
about this, so, once again, today in my third episode, in my
endeavor, To have us, not turn away from this, but to face it.
Head-on, I invite you to join me in what I think is going to be a
very important discussion before we get started.
I want to do a couple of shout outs here to my Underwriters for
today, for supporting me and my voice and supporting our right
yours and mine to talk about this difficult issue.
I'm so grateful to them and start.
In off, with our first one, here are great, new underwriter
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There's like another 11 million servings that they've, that
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support them. I thank them.
Thank you, liquid IV for supporting Rumble with Michael
Moore. Hey and I also want to thank our
other underwriter for today's episode long time.
Underwriter expressvpn, thank you for supporting my podcast
and supporting our right to privacy when we're online.
This is the great thing why we were so happy when RSVP, n
wanted to back Rumble for those of you don't know what
expressvpn is, let me just lay it out to you.
Very simply, you may think that, you know, when you're just
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Incognito you know the fine print terms terms and services.
Well you should read it sometime because it says that your
activity Might still be visible to your employer to your school
to your internet service provider, even when you think
you're going incognito. So how the hell can they even
call it that? Well?
Anyways, if you really want to stop people from seeing the
sites that you visit and where you are online, you need to use
this service that we use here at Rumble expressvpn, it's an app
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So use my special link at expressvpn.com / Rumble to get
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No. Okay.
Of course I don't expressvpn.com / Rumble to learn more and now
my friends, it's time to runs retention song.
Redemption. My guest today is Desmond call,
he is an award-winning journalist and activist lives in
Toronto. Canada Desmond, recently
published his first book is called, The Skin were in a year
of black resistance. Empower, it was the winner of
the 2020 Toronto, book, award, and a national bestseller.
He's just launched a new publication.
That's called, yes, everything And I hope I did the right
inflection in how this is to be pronounced but we're going to
find out what this means and you can you can find this online and
just type in, yes, everything. All right, yes, everything dot.
CA the movement for black lives, black lives matter.
Etcetera is emerged in the United States over the past
several years. Desmond has watched and
documented it. While he's been confronting his
own systems of white supremacy closer to home in Canada.
As you know, if you've been a fan for a while, if you've seen
my movies, you've listened to this podcast, that an early age,
I learned to turn to the Canadians, sometimes to get the
truth about us. And it's sort of like, you know,
like, any, you know, the neighbor that lives that abuts
your backyard or lives on the or, you know, the people that
live on the other side of the fence, you know, a lot more
about them, than they realize in part because you have to listen
to their arguments in the screaming, over the fence and
and everything else. And you also see the garbage
and, you know, Canada has the United States have been, you
know, if I could personify these entities that are governmental
units friends. We've been friends for a long
time and I think you know, if you have any friends that it's
often only your best friends are the ones that can tell you the
brutal and awful truths that you need to hear.
They're the only ones that can just say, honestly, listen to
me. You're fucking up.
So I decided to ask dozen doesn't call here on Rumble
today because I have been talking about this since last
summer. And and now I've decided one of
my goals this year is to make the not the defunding of the
police that's way too limiting for me, I want to talk about
abolishing the police and abolishing.
Our criminal justice system as it's called, and our prisons are
prison-industrial complex, but I don't really know how to do this
and I have called 911 when I've needed help.
So I say, will you do want some of the police their right to do
something if you're in trouble or you know?
I mean I've had I've had a half a dozen attempts on my life or
people with weapons trying to harm me.
Then that's I've talked about this as you know, it's No
secret. But I am not an expert on this.
I'm not a criminologist. I have read and listened and
watched Desmond speak about this in a very profound way.
And I thought you would like to hear a perspective from our
neighbor and to see what we can learn from his thinking about
this. So welcome to rumble, Desmond
Cole, thank you very much. Michael explain to the listeners
where you, where you stand on this, because whatever, we, it
is that we need. When we say we need police, we
don't need a man with a gun and a badge in my mind.
We need a Department of Public Safety and compassion.
And when we say Public Safety, I mean, we need to redefine that
term because to me, the fact that we have millions of
children that are hungry every day in this country, that's a
public safety issue, as far as I'm concerned.
So, You know, I'm just going to turn this over to you and I'm
just because I'd love to hear your take on on this particular
issue and understanding that you don't, you don't live here with
this but as you say in your book and in your writings you do live
with in your in your skin as you say.
And that that is not just an American problem but I think we
need some help right now and I'm so afraid that now that Derek
Chauvin is sent away to Prison that we're just going to move on
to the next thing and our attention span is gone and I
don't want it to go away, I want to fix this and I want you to
help us. Well, it's nice to be with you.
I don't know how much I can do in the time that we've got but
I'm sorry to put all this on you but you know, it's it's okay.
I'm going to set low expectations for myself as I
often do and then if things turned out great and it'll be a
bonus but Take Cree. No, very seriously.
What we're experiencing. Whether it be in Canada or the
United States is our relationship with our
governments and the people who run them, that is based on
dominance. I think, first and foremost,
that people can't live in good relationship with each other
through. Mutual respect, listening.
Operation negotiation. That is actually not possible in
Canada or the United States. The only thing that's possible
is that we dominate people who are not doing what we want and
that we be allowed to dominate them really doing anything that
we want, including taking their lives.
That's the relationship that government has decided is the
appropriate one between itself and its people and what that
means? Is that you have to have police?
Police are an imperative, because you assume that people
are not rational that they are not acting in your best
interest. That they are violent, that
they're dangerous, and that that's the way of the world.
So you'd be crazy not to have police and to protect yourself.
But of course, we know that the police are not here to Serve and
Protect as they like to Brand themselves.
By the way, the police have the Branding of any organization may
be in human history. You ask people what did the
police do, and they say, oh, they Serve and Protect do they,
who do they serve and protect the police's job has always been
from the time of the enslavement of black people in both Canada
and the United States. Their job has been to police
some people and, you know, move control surveil and dominate
them. So that the ruling class feels
safe and comfortable inside us fight.
That's that's just what policing is Miriam Kaba?
The police abolitionists and prison abolitionists in the
United States, incredible activist, and writer, She says
that she considers. The police to be a death making
institution, right? And she says this about prisons,
as well. If the prison is also a death
making institution, and I think this is the, the ideological
conflict. Michael, is that some people
think that the police Define safety and some of us know that
the police equals Death, surveillance control dominance
suffering? You're not going to abolish the
police. If you think that they Tribute
to your safety, but being a black person.
I don't have to worry about that because I've had a lifetime of
understanding that the police don't contribute to my safety.
So for me, this is not some kind of really big intellectual
exercise. I have to live it and so do all
the black people in the United States of America.
But we should also talk about the policing and extermination
of indigenous peoples in this part of the world, which again,
that was policing. For the benefit of the elite and
the ruling class at the expense of the First Peoples of these
lands who were here for Millennia before we were.
So a policing is always tilted and liberals fail because
liberals want to say, well let's just make it equal.
Let's have a fantasy. Where the police aren't really
here to dominate. They're here to help.
So we'll train them not to kill people and we'll give them
weapons that don't kill you. The minute that they shoot you
and we'll put body cameras on them so that if they kill you we
can watch. And after you're dead decide,
whether it was fair or not. And none of these things are
really intended to change policing.
And of course, they don't work, but they're not meant to work.
So if you agree with Miriam Kaaba, that police is a death
making institution, you would want to abolish it, but it is
the fight. To Define and understand
policing is such that I think we're on right now.
The fight to take away all that branding of Serve and Protect
and expose, what the police are really doing in our communities.
And what is that? What is the, what is it?
When we, when she says? And when you say, when you talk
about abolishing the police, what do you, what do you mean by
that? And I guess I'm asking you to
address white people that are listening to this.
And maybe some like people live in neighborhoods that have what
we call high crime. But I think that the lens here
is always the white lens that were forced to kind of look at
it through this white lens. So for the people listening to
this and they hear, wow, they've these two guys are just skipped
over defunding the police to abolishing.
What does this really mean? Because because I've read, you
know, what you've written and you have a such an Advanced and
Progressive way of thinking about how we could live in a
better world. How we could be a Kinder and
more compassionate people. If if we rethought this, I
think, first of all, You only want to completely get rid of
something if you would agree that it is harmful.
So that's the point that I'm trying to start from when I say,
is this really a death making institution?
Or is it a neutral institution that could go either way and we
should have an endless debate about it.
The police kill a lot of people but that's not really the
argument for abolishing the police, the argument for
abolishing the police. Nice.
Is that it isn't right for some human beings in our society to
be able to have a legal right to dominate surveil.
Controlled detain assault and kill other people that actually
giving other people other human beings the right to do.
That is itself wrong. And I'm interested because I see
that in the United States, one of the only countries in the
world that It's still executing so many people, the way that it
does that that is starting to fall out of favor in America.
And I think it's the same principle is that you shouldn't
have the right to take somebody else's life and when people do
take life in our communities, where were appalled, right?
We are outraged, we don't think it's right then we create a
whole system that does the exact same thing as a punishment for
taking life. So it's like how much do we
really believe that? But I I see how people are
trying to eliminate abolish capital punishment because they
have decided that under no circumstances.
Should anyone have that power over another human being?
That's what we're talking about when we talk about abolishing
the police, because the police don't have to kill you to
dominate you. They don't have to take your
life in order to make your life hell and make you live in
constant, fear control. The things that you do without
laying a hand on you because they have the ability to harm
you and get away with it in law. It's that that we're trying to
address. I think we have to start there.
And again, if you think that there are circumstances where a
person needs to be able to dominate another person, to the
extent of taking their life, you are not ready for the abolition
conversation. Right.
But it starts from a place of wanting Human Relationships that
aren't based on dominance. Well, we always get the
question. What about the murderers?
What about the rapists? What about the serial killers?
And I think the appropriate answer is, many of them are
police. The problem with a police serial
killer or murderer or rapist though, is that they're never
going to be held accountable. By the society ever because
that's the nature of policing because if the guys who have the
ultimate authority over the rest of us can be treated just like
us well they're not really the police anymore now are they if
police can be fired the minute, they abuse their Authority and
they're not really the police anymore and that's exactly what
I want but that's exactly what makes so many people afraid is
like you know you have to be able to have that.
Hammer in order to protect yourself, but that's the
mentality of the slave master, who's always paranoid that the
slaves are going to revolt. That is where this mentality of
policing comes from. That's the mentality of the
settlor. Who wants to clear indigenous
peoples off of their land without consequence and take
over that land. Paranoia fear and in need to
dominate. So I think we have to start
there. In our thinking and as far as
well, what would we do? Otherwise, This is not a mystery
the way that people want to pretend that it is because every
single day in this world, we actually figure out ways to have
a relationship with each other that don't involve killing each
other and even when people are violent or out of line or
harmful, we figure out ways to deal with it, that are not
dominance killing surveillance. So the model that everybody is
looking for, imagining has to replace, the police is not
really. As complicated I would say is
people want to make it out to be most of the policing activity
just needs to stop. It doesn't need to be replaced
with something if if on your walk to work every day, there's
a man who has the legal authority to punch you in the
face. And after a while, you're like
men, you know what that government employee, who punches
me in my face every day, we should really do something about
him. What would you think?
If somebody who's like, well, what do we replace them with
though? You don't know what your need to
replace that person. They just, they're extra, they
are unnecessary. They're harmful.
And they don't need to be replaced by anything.
And that's what we say about the vast majority of policing
activity. It doesn't need to be replaced
by anything. Having a person with a gun, go
to a noise, complaint in a community is foolish and
dangerous, and it doesn't need to be replaced by anything.
However, I would argue that if you want to, for example,
respond to somebody in mental health, Rice's you don't send
the police. You don't send somebody with a
gun and a taser and pepper. Spray, you you send somebody
else and we're not replacing. We're actually like shifting
focus of the response because they're the police.
Only do one thing. They enforce the law and uses
much dominating ability as they have to enforce the law or to
enforce whatever, they believe to be the law because just like
the Judge Dredd movie. The police kind of really are
the law once they get involved in a situation, They do whatever
they want. And so we're not really trying
to replace that completely over-the-top power for things,
like kids, having a tantrum in school.
Oh my God, if we can't call the police who we call deal with it
differently, have a different mentality about what's needed in
that circumstance and move from there.
And then not that. I'm a have a problem with
defunding because defunding is fine.
As long as it's a mechanism towards abolition.
Take the funding away from the guys who solve every problem
showing up with weapons and dominance and invest in health,
invest in education, invest in trauma, therapy and counseling.
For all the people who have been harmed by the police invest in
housing. What keeps people in a society
safe housing or men with guns Healthcare or men with guns?
It's not even a question, but when you live in a white
settlers paranoid, Petit Canada or the United States.
This is the fight. This is what we're fighting back
against and we're to prisons fall into this in terms of the
Abolitionist Movement here because it seems to be, you
know, the policing is the first link in this chain.
But then they need these large buildings with bars on them to
send these people too. And to create this false sense
of security that now that they've been removed, you're
protected even though there's so many other ways you're not,
you're not protected in their, our day-to-day lives, have
nothing to do with crime on the streets, it has to do with, you
know, covid appears and you lose your job and suddenly and United
States, you have no health care. So just like that.
Well, I believe that holding people in any form of captivity
is always about, How you benefit from that.
So black people have been in captivity for some form or
another on these territories for hundreds of years.
And it's not because we're dangerous.
It's because somebody profits from us being in captivity.
So there are people in the United States and Canada who
have been doing things like sewing masks during covid.
And what do you have to pay a prisoner to so masks all day?
Do you have to pay them anything?
You don't know the many thing you can pay them.
A nominal fee. You can probably get away with
not doing it though, because who's going to fight for
prisoners? If you say, I'll pay you and
then don't do it. So, we've had prisoners in
Canada and the United States doing things like making PPE or
the public while they sit in a jail cell.
And I don't know about different regions of the United States.
But I can tell you here in Ontario, I'll shocking amount of
the people who are in jail or on remand.
Meaning they haven't actually been convicted of anything, so
they are awaiting trial. Yeah, we don't have that word
here. What it, what is it?
What is re-manned mean, reman means that you have been charged
but you haven't been convicted. You haven't had your day in
court as they say and so, but you're still you're held Behind
Bars. You're imprisoned even though
you're still an innocent person. Yeah.
Technically I mean innocence is that's why we have to challenge
the whole concept of Innocence because how can you be innocent
Sitting in a jail cell, right? Right, exactly.
But um yeah in those circumstances you haven't had an
opportunity under the law to have your case tried, but you're
in jail. And when we see right now,
Michael is like things like covid-19.
Finds a home in a jail because a jail on purpose is filthy is
cramped, there's no physical distancing possible.
There's not sanitary conditions inside of a jail.
It's not easy to wash your hands.
It's not easy to do the things that would protect you.
But because we've created this horror place that, where
anything is again. It's like, it's like policing,
policing is about anything. Goes, we Do whatever we want to.
You jail is the same way, but then people go wait a minute,
though. Wait a minute, though.
People have to staff the jail. People have to clean the jail.
People have to go serve food in the jail.
What if they get covid-19 sold care that the people in the
prison will get covid-19 and die.
They're like, well, what if this affects the general population
who isn't in jail, maybe we should do something about it.
Now, of course, what I've been seeing in Canada and the United
States is that those are very lackluster half-hearted efforts
because there is a political taboo against showing sympathy
to prisoners. Yes, and so prisoners can make
your covid-19 masks and then they themselves can't get
protection from covid-19. And they can contract it.
And many people have died in our prisons and jails during this
pandemic. And there's been very little
thought given to protecting them.
So people make money off of the bail program.
I wrote recently for yes everything.
The first it's a new publication that me and my friends have
begun in me and my colleague L Jones, the first piece that Road
is an investigation into a Canadian business tycoon and he
is named Prem Watsa and he is the largest investor in the
United States has for-profit bail system.
So jail isn't just about keeping you safe.
It's about somebody making money at people at in captivity at
their expense. And if those people are mostly
disproportionately black indigenous other, racialized
groups, disabled people, women who have been abused.
Used well too bad. Their safety is irrelevant.
That's why. I criticize the notion of Public
Safety because Public Safety. Just like policing is not a
universal. It's public safety for some at
other peoples expense. So the prison is just a site to
disappear people so that we can pretend we've done something
about problems in society when we've really just disappeared
them and we have to abolish that too.
And again just like the police people will say well, Will we be
safe? How will we be safe?
And you have police officers who murder people and no one even
knows their name and they continue to work and police
officers sexually. Assaulting people, the police in
your country, engage in domestic violence at a rate.
Four to five times, I believe of the general public, who would be
surprised you give somebody a gun and a badge and you tell
them that they can do whatever they want.
So you'd be surprised that they have a huge rate of intimate
partner violence, but those people are walking around in the
street every day. And in fact, they're walking
around with more protection than anybody else.
So, I just think it's about getting real, about what we
mean, when we say safety in the name, in the form of prisons and
police whose safety. If we were to maybe start to
redefine some of these terms guilt-innocence Public Safety.
Police, where would you start if you were creating a new?
It's not just a dictionary of a new set of definitions, but
actual actions, that would redefine what we mean by Public
Safety. What we mean by policing and and
preventing crime, or all these things that were told that
they're supposed to do. And when generally, the police
come after, the crime has been committed, you call 911.
One, and I've always, I've referred to them as crime-scene.
Cleanup is what a lot, and then then they go out and try and
catch the bad guy. But I think most people, if they
were thinking about their own safety, real safety is all the
preventive things that you'd want to do so that you wouldn't
even have to get to the point of needing somebody with a badge
and a gun. I'm just curious how you would,
how you would redefine the way that we talked about this and
the way that we look at it. The first thing I think we need
to Define is the notion of crime itself.
What's a crime, what is crime? So again, if I'm walking through
a park and I have a disagreement with a white woman and she feels
offended at our disagreement my criminal.
No, but that white woman can call the police and start crying
and saying that I've done something horrible to her.
And there's a black man near me in the park, and, of course, I'm
talking about Amy Cooper. And then the men with the guns
are dispatched and whatever they see fit to do.
When they get there is their choice.
There's no real law governing. What they do.
There's a notion that there's a live there but it doesn't
protect black people. So, I mean, we have to redefine
what what crime really even means.
And I think that maybe it's not the most useful word because it
has taken on a racial connotation, right?
Right? Let's like people who commit
crime are Thugs and we have specific names.
Some people get to be heroes when they commit crimes and
police officers fall into that category police officers, who do
the most cowardly things, handcuffed children, mace,
children, lie, to get people convicted of crimes so-called
crimes their cowardly but they are celebrated for their Social
behavior and they're rewarded with, you know, promotions and
Ward's, you know, the police officers.
Who shot Amadou Diallo on his porch in New York City?
All those years ago, one of the police officers involved in that
shooting was later given like the New York's cop of the Year
kind of Award, right? We do the same thing here in
Ontario. Somebody who is engaged in
racial profiling? Incident becomes the lead of a
racial profiling police team. Somebody who harm somebody on a
mental health call. Then goes and joins a mental
health liaison unit, this is exactly what we do.
We reward certain kinds of crime.
So if you can't see what the police do as being criminal,
then there's a problem with that woman and we needed maybe need
to redefine and re-examine that. But what I really think that
needs doing is rethinking Safety for real rethinking.
What care means for real, you talked about prevention and I
don't even know if I like that idea only.
Because again, if you have this notion that there is this kind
of like inevitable crime, that is going to take place and that
you have to act to prevent it. You're not really focused on
just being good to people, you're focused on preventing
something terrible and scary and bad from happening.
And you're going towards that white paranoia.
Now that we've all been taught, see.
I think if we were just if we were good to people that when I
hear people say they're afraid of, you know, crying or
whatever. I just saying, you know, the
chances, like if you know the person living next door to you,
if they're making fifty sixty seventy thousand dollars a year.
What's the chance of them breaking into your house?
Stealing your TV? None is the answer.
I mean, there's I guess there is a psychological or there's some
kind of you know, if you're a kleptomaniac I guess.
Maybe. Seriously, if we divided the
economic pie differently, if people had Healthcare, real
Healthcare, that included mental health, where they could get
help. All these other things that
whatever you're worried about somebody on your street doing
and I don't even think you're worried about somebody on your
street doing it. I think you're worried about
somebody coming from some other Street.
You're worried about the outside faceless stranger Ranger.
Yes. Into your the exactly you're not
worried about little freckle-faced.
Jimmy down the street. You're you're worried about
something else. What if we write, if you have
money and you're walking late at night, you're worried about
somebody who doesn't have any money coming and taking your
money, taking your wallet. That's that's, that's what
people are paranoid about. But I think it's very
short-sighted to ask people will just think about helping those
people and then you won't have to worry anymore.
I don't That works. And the reason it doesn't work
is because that's not centering people's Humanity, people
deserve Health Care not so that they won't go and hurt somebody
people deserve a home, not so that they won't go in hurt
somebody because they deserve a home because they deserve health
care because they deserve to go to school, just deserve those
basic things just on their face. Not not, because all I'm going
to do this because it'll protect me from being hurt by them
someday. It should just be done because
we're freakin human beings and it's the human right thing to
do. It is a human, right?
To be able to have those things that in and of itself should be
enough. Well it should be a human
responsibility to care for one another.
That's what I mean. Right?
That's accurate. Yeah.
But rights and responsibilities are they're not the same and I
think that's another answer to part of your question here is
that we need to move away from a framework of Saying we will
codify under law that you must not do this.
And that, if you do, do it, there will be harsh, serious
consequences of punishment. And hope that people behave.
When we tell them that, we've got to move away from that to
moving towards a system that says, like, a great society is
one where we're all responsible for.
What happens to one another, we take that responsibility
seriously, and we live our lives that way.
And so, you know, This is probably happening in the United
States as well. But in all of our major cities
in Canada, Michael we're seeing encampments in Parks.
People are just setting up shop in the local park, because there
is no housing because covid-19 has really made the austerity
that we've all been engaging in our countries.
It's made it much more visible. All of a sudden you can't hide
it anymore. People are losing their jobs.
People are losing their homes, people are losing their hair
Apartments, they're losing work, benefits, and they're ending up
in these really visible situations in places like our
public parks camping out because there is nowhere else for them
to go. Now, some people see that in and
of itself as a criminal act and certainly, there are bylaws that
are cities that say, you're not allowed to pitch a tent in the
park, you're not allowed to start a fire in a park to keep
yourself warm. So technically being poor is
still a crime. And what we see from some people
is like I'm not going to take that approach.
I'm actually going to take a reproach to that's approach.
That says, if somebody's camping in a park, it's my
responsibility to go over and be like, hey, are you okay?
What do you need? And so as we've seen this
Devastation, we've also seen unprecedented organizing and
mutual Aid. Of people spending their money
to make sure that people who live in a local park.
Have food have clean water, have a sleeping bag, have a tent have
access to health services, have access to getting a vaccination
because they don't have an address or sometimes
identification and they're not doing it because they think well
if I make sure the people in the park get vaccinated I won't get
covid cuz That's not a one-to-one.
They're just doing it because they feel a responsibility.
How do we Foster? A greater sense of
responsibility to counteract all of the people who are only
acting defensively and out of self-interest?
I think that's really one of what we want to ask ourselves.
How do we Foster that? And I believe, you know, I read
a lot of folks, including I mentioned Miriam Kaba earlier,
Andrea rich, Gee, there's so many people doing amazing work
talking about these things and talking about what we could do
with all the money, the billions and billions of dollars that
we're giving to the police not giving it to her ordinary.
People were giving it to the police.
And we don't give it to the police because we think they'll
keep things safe, Michael, we give it to the police because we
think that they morally deserve it and we weren't people were
sleeping in the park because they morally, Razor, but defund
or defund police dot org is an amazing website that people can
go to and start reading about. Well, what would happen if we
started shifting our resources, what would happen if we did
things differently and this Coalition of black, mainly black
lead groups in the United States at defund police dot org.
You know what they're doing? They're doing things.
Things like police have military grade weapons in our cities.
You talking about these kind of things in Bowling for Columbine,
like you this idea that you can just you know, defend yourself
and your city by like, do you need a tank?
Do you need a nuke? What do you need?
But the police literally have tanks they have chemical
weapons. They have military grade
weapons. So people who are doing a
defined movement or like take that away, let's spend it on
something that's actually going to help people.
Let's think about our responsibilities to people
instead of protecting ourselves from a book.
Man, let's take money and divest it from the police, and spend it
on the things that we truly truly value, and care about,
spend it on care, suspended, on support for people.
And I just think this is the attitude that we really need to
continue to Foster because defunding is great, as long as
it's, a means toward never having these kinds of Human
Relationships. Again, why do you think the
white liberal pundits have been just railing against this
concept of defund? The police and warning other
liberals or lefties do not use this term or we're going to lose
the next election. I mean they've been very
forceful and have. It's really gotten their backs
up because they they think this is the way that the Republicans
are going to Rally white people out to the polls next year.
Yeah, I mean, I think you've answered your own question.
This is about politics. It's, it's Defund is a losing
message to White liberals and they don't care about the
ethical underpinning of defund. They just think white people
aren't going to listen to that. So don't do it.
It's the politics of expediency. And so politics of not having to
give a fuck because it doesn't affect you in the same way that
affects other people. So, I don't really care if white
people here defund and get scared you here.
That Society has been pointing a gun on Black and Indigenous
people for hundreds of years and we're thinking that maybe we're
going to take that gun away. And that makes you scared.
That's your problem. That's not my problem.
I don't have to sit around in the mace waste my life,
convincing you that I deserve to live without societies gun
pointed at me. Every day without Society
watching and surveilling me every day I have a right to live
without all of that. And if you're Not sure, that's
your problem. But what do I liberals care?
If this isn't their world, if it's not their family members in
jail because not their children being followed around by the
police officer in their schools, Walking The Halls.
What do they care? If they feel like they're safe
because certain people need to be followed around, certain
people are scary, certain people are antisocial.
Of course, that they're not going to go for this as a
political message, but this is not a political slogan.
You know, this is not about expediency or winning a
political argument or winning through incremental ISM.
Again, if Miriam Kaaba is correct and policing is actually
in and of itself, a death making institution.
Well, you don't try to reduce a desperate death, making
institution, incrementally, and hope that 40 or 50 years from.
Now, things are different. But I'll tell you what, Michael,
I studied these things in the 1980s and 90s in Toronto, we
were talking about hiring more police officers of black
Heritage to change the way that policing looks.
We're talking about that 30 and 40 years ago.
Liberal ideology about reforming police incrementally is
completely bankrupt. And I would add insincere
liberals, don't want to address this problem.
They want us to shut the hell up about it.
That's all they want. So who the fuck cares?
What they say, we're on a mission.
If they come on board, they come on board.
But how many miles are we really going to gain begging liberal
people to acknowledge our Humanity as black people?
It doesn't make me feel good to wake up in the morning and be
like, that's what I'm going to do today.
So they can argue that they're the majority and we need them.
and I say like, you know go to church and get over your damn
self really like, right height, we're being told that we need
white people in order to change the world because it's just this
equivalent of like, you know, When one kid owns the the soccer
ball or the basketball and says, I'm going to take my ball and go
home. Well, we'll play a different
game then we don't need to play your game if you have so much
Authority and control but you want to Delay for the next 30
Years and have an intellectual argument an ideological or, you
know, argument about like do black people, deserve this kind
of safety or will it put me in safety?
We don't have time for that. We just don't have time.
White liberalism is a bankrupt ideology that doesn't have any
answers. You're telling us things that
people tried 30 and 40 years ago not caring or being invested in
whether it really works or not. So if If no more black cops on
the force works are not white liberals, don't really care
either way because that's not their bag.
If releasing more people from prison helps or not.
What do they care? They rather feel more
comfortable so that there's no liabilities on them.
In case we let out a bad person, so right, you have all kind of
control over people's lives and you're just like, you know what,
keep them under subjection because I don't want to have to
take a risk of them being bad and harmful, that's how much
power people have and they want to Negotiate with them and I'm
done with that. So if white Liberals are not on
board, they better get the hell out of the way.
That is exactly how I feel and I just turned the TV off.
Now, I don't want to listen to this.
I don't want to lose it. Sounds like a bunch of whiners
and it's usually white men and frankly, I know the
demographics, I know the statistics of this country, I
know they buy somewhere before 2044.
You know just a little over 20 years from now the majority of
this Country is not going to be white.
So get with the program is what I try to tell white people
because you're living in an old world and that world was racist,
that that world was a colonial world that believed in genocide.
This is a country that was founded in it.
Founded in genocide and built on the backs of slaves and if you
can't just admit that simple. Fact, I don't know what to do
with you other than to say, well, you know what about 30 32
percent of the u.s. right now are people of color and there
and white women make up, maybe, maybe 35% of the population.
And, and if a majority of them, not all of them because we know
Trump got a lot of their votes but just just enough They add on
to that that 32 when you have thirty two percent of the
country who are people of color, it seems like, what is that
another 18% your 50%. So can we can we get just a few
good white men and maybe a close to a majority of the white women
and and that's and then we build our policies and we get our
elections around that instead of I have to listen to this every
day about what we have to reach out. out to the Republicans
know, we don't well, okay, I want to, I want to think through
this a little bit because I mean, you know, for me I don't
really see the Battleground, the major Battleground being
electoral politics. So we need to get to 50 plus 1
and then we get all the policies that we want.
Barack Obama had a supermajority right in 2008.
He, well, maybe didn't have 60 votes in the Senate, I guess,
but no, but he had enough, he had enough but it was
squandered. Well, but he was afraid of His
own party who were yeah for people loyal to police loyal to
insurance companies and Banks right away or the healthcare
Lobby Wall Street. And and so I think this is a
cautionary thing for us to think about in a lot of different
ways. America is not going to
demographic itself out of these issues.
America is a country whose as a legal entity is founded upon
white supremacy and settler colonialism.
As you just mentioned, Canada is exactly the same.
You don't change that by changing the demographics of the
country, but leaving in place, the ideological foundations and
legal system of that entity, you can't Brock Obama presided over
thousands of black people. Being murdered by the police and
was too scared to do anything about it.
Right? Barack Obama said, I'm going to
close Guantanamo Bay and then was like oh man.
You know, you build this like site of complete human suffering
and its really really hard to undo it.
Like so I guess I have an excuse that it was really a lot harder
everybody than I thought and I'm sorry but you know, I couldn't
get this done. Everybody thought the black man
with me? I didn't think the black man was
going to come in and like make magic and make it rain, but some
people did. And some people actually expect
that of us as black people, they expect the black people to come
out every election because they're black and have an
ideological bent that saves their own lives and votes in
their own so-called interest. But there are also black
billionaires, they're also black CEOs, they're also black judges
and police officers. Hours and prison wardens that
don't actually want this system to change because they're also
benefiting from it. So I don't think the answer here
is just a hope that in 20, or 30 years, there's enough, black and
brown people that we don't have these policies anymore.
White supremacy is an ideology doesn't reside inside of the
individual. It's, it's more akin to like the
air were breathing and right? So how do we, how do we
eliminate that? I think this is why I wrote a
whole book. And I think this is Is why I've
spent the last ten years of my life fighting against white
supremacy, settler colonialism, fighting against Notions of
patriarchy. Tryna understand the harm that
they are causing and how malleable they are, right.
And how transferable that they are, that it doesn't have to be
a white person sitting at the top of these entities and
reinforcing everything at all. And sometimes it works better
because when you have Barack Obama than everywhere, you can't
say he's racist now because Barack Obama.
We have a lot of black police chief's here in Ontario
recently. That's the new thing is, you
want to get the black Back demonstrators to shut up.
Will you start putting in black police chief's?
Because then if the black police chief does something it can't be
racist. None of these things are true.
The black police chief though knows that it is his job to
reinforce the white supremacist settlor culture.
And that if he doesn't do that, he can't get the respect of his
officers, right? Well, even in the Derrick,
Chauvin trial the prosecutor. There's a white prosecutor.
It's a black prosecutor stood there.
And they won and said, we are not putting the police on trial
or the police system on trial. We are putting one individual
here on trial, that's all that this means, and this, in this
sort of, they didn't say it. They didn't say it, but it's
sort of look friends, you see? It's just this one bad apple and
the rest of the batch of apples are good.
And but we, the criminal justice system.
Some were going to get rid of this bad apple for you and then
things will be okay. I think the problem is that a
lot of people Even who wanted to see.
Derek Chauvin convicted believe that.
They believe, you know. How many people did we see after
that decision? Saying, I hope, I hope.
That this is a step toward change.
Why would it be if you needed the Derek Chauvin trial?
To have some kind of epiphany about policing and I think
you're probably still part of the problem, right?
And that is, that is what I think is wrong with the
attention that gets paid to each of these individual cases.
They are so few and far between. Anyway, Michael, I mean, the
Derek Chauvin trial is exceptional because it even
happened. That's not going to happen to
most police officers, who take a black person's life.
Mm-hmm. An independent person, who is
black and scared Having the courage to stand by and film
that incident independent of a police body camera.
Yeah. Right.
And, and handing that information over like so that it
can, it can, it can be seen and used by other people.
Like, I'm talking, of course, about the melon Fraser, who
stood there and filmed what Derek Chauvin, did to George
Floyd, right? That's not Don't happen in most
cases, where a police officer murders, a black person. but
this is all again, if this is an ideological exercise for people,
And they haven't decided that the police are the killing
institution that Miriam Kaaba says, they still want to be
proven, yes or no on a case-by-case basis and they want
to go home and think about it while the police continue to
take our lives which is why we can't wait for them now.
But right, so what do we do? Because I don't want to wait.
I don't want to wait another minute and I want and I want the
institution, not the individual officer and I want white people.
To own certain things. I want fellow men to own certain
things and maybe we begin to change our attitudes as human
beings. I believe that the most
effective organizing happens in the places, where we exist and
spend a lot of our time. Derek Chauvin is trial is an
abstraction that makes it seem like whether he is found
innocent or guilty is going to determine what happens.
For you and your town near or far from there and it's just not
true. The cops in your town aren't
waiting for the Derek Chauvin verdict to decide how they want
to treat black people. They already know how they're
going to treat them. And so it's about organizing
where we live. One of the things that I've been
so inspired by where I live is that all across Canada in the
last 20 or 30 years, we've begun to have armed police officers in
our schools Americans. Think that Canada is so
Different from their country and they don't understand that
Canada and a cultural sense worships the United States and
is jealous and Covetous of the United States and wants to be
like our neighbors to the South wants to be the big bad strong
one that everybody is afraid of and we emulate a lot of
practices. We've emulated all of the
austerity. I mean I won't even say emulate
Canada has its own reasons for wanting to starve and
impoverished black and Indigenous people.
So that they can drive your cab. Instead of being a doctor or,
you know, like, there are reasons for this that are not
about following the United States as lead.
But anyway, What we've seen in where I live.
Is that, like, people in their local communities have seen
these cops in our schools and been like I don't want Cops in
my school and I'm not going to wait till like see if another
city or region gets rid of them. My kids go to this school and
there's a cop there and we're going to get them out and across
the last several years in Toronto, where I live in
Hamilton, just down the road in peel region, which is Just west
of us and contains a huge black and brown population.
But as far as West is Vancouver, on the west coast people are
getting police officers out of their schools and they're doing
that organizing locally because you're not going to get police
officers in another cities schools out by organizing from
far away. You're going to do that by
appealing to Local Schools. Local school board officials,
right? And right.
Having a local Confrontation that says this is bad for our
kids and by the way, we don't have public health nurses.
In our schools, we don't have meal programs in our schools
again, what keeps people safe and well and what do people
deserve not give black people meal program instead of police
so that they don't hurt or threaten, you give it to them
because they need it. And that's a local thing that's
happening. The local organizing about
defunding police is happening. T by city.
So when a group like defund police dot-org says that they've
secured like almost eight hundred and fifty million
dollars, of divestment from Beloit Police Department's.
That wasn't everybody watching One decision or City Council on
TV and being like, wow, we should maybe do that.
It was people in their local communities being like, yeah,
fuck the police. We need money for schools.
We need money for roads. We need money for health care.
We need money to fix buildings that are falling down.
We need money for or housing, the local fight, the place,
where you spend the most time, people who live in cities and
towns, where the heat buildings. Part of the economy is a prison
And thinking, you know what, we don't want to live in a prison
economy, is the people who are living there, who are like, we
need to change this. We need actually way for us to
live here and it has to be that way, Michael because no one's
going to let Outsiders come in and tell them things like this.
That are so Central to their lives, right, right?
No. This is an important Point, very
important point the way. And and again, the
sensationalism of things like a murder trial, that is broadcast
on TV and I grew up during the oh, O.j. era.
So, O'Jays trial, set the standard for like this idea that
we're all going to participate by proxy by watching and that
we're all going to be changed Forever by the distant what
other Hollywood nonsense. It's the local fight in your
community around the things that are affecting people for you.
And that's why I brought up the example of people helping people
in their local park, no one's going to do that work, but the
people who live near the park and see somebody There in the
elements being like that person needs a hat that person needs a
code that person needs access to water.
I'm going to make sure that it happens and then when I see my
local public official isn't helping, I'm going to get on
their back and say, why aren't you doing this work?
Instead of Neighbors in your community, we all pay taxes to
you, why aren't you doing this work?
It's to stop. I got so many calls the day that
they remember. I live in Canada, and I got so
many calls from media because of the work that I do, the Say that
Derrick children's trial ended asking me, how do you feel?
How do you feel? And I turned most of those down
because I just don't want to pretend like the the fight to
abolish. The police turns on these
Sensational moments it turns on people doing the work every day
and organizing and communities that are oppressed that people
don't really give the spotlight to sex worker.
Fighting against the police queer and trans people fighting
against the police homeless people drug users, fighting
against the police. You really want to build a
strong Coalition Michael. You, you align yourself with the
people who are facing the most hardship from the current system
and you ask them, what do you need and then you just keep
doing that for years and years and years and you build some
power. That's what I see working and
that's what I want to be a part of Of, I don't want to have to
like Twitter react as a way of hoping that things get better.
Yo, I'm out there on Twitter. People know that about me but
yeah, that's not where I do my most important work.
My most important work is the things that people don't see.
It's the calls and the late-night Communications and
the organizing of things with people and the sharing of
information with people and building Community to community
And reinforcing that by being like, hey look, they did it over
here and they won and you look these guys gotta win on the cops
out of schools thing today. Isn't that awesome we can do it
too. Hey look they divested 3 million
dollars from the police budget this year when they were going
to actually increase it. Is that what we want?
Ultimately know, we want the whole enchilada but we're going
to celebrate our winds to and we're going to show what's
possible when we organize locally.
Wow, this is so powerful that you're saying in the importance
of doing. This in our daily lives in, in
our own personal lives, where we live, where our kids, go to
school, where we can have the most impact.
I'm so glad you've said this, it rarely gets said, and you know,
we're all we're good about calling for large demonstrations
and and let's all get out in the street tonight and whatever.
And that's important to, I'm not dismissing that.
But the local, the local part of this and taking responsibility
for our Brothers and our sisters, our neighbors, it's I
don't know. I thank you for saying that it
rarely gets said and I just want to add one thing is the great,
the great irony of white liberal Society is that it is black.
People going out into the street every day for months.
After George. Floyd was lynched.
Yeah, it made the Chauvin trial, something that white people even
paid attention to write black people hadn't done that when
people wouldn't have even paid attention to the trial.
I'll as meaning, maybe there will be change.
Maybe there won't be like black people did that because they
were so horrified that this continues to happen and that we
have to see the videos of it liberal societies, like, oh, the
police are killing people. I'd kind of like to see that so
that I can decide for myself if the killing is good or bad.
So, put a camera, that's that's their only.
That's why I mean, they for 30 or 40 years, we just won't Exact
same thing. So meanwhile black people are
out there in the streets willing to sacrifice their lives against
those very same police forces to say enough and one minute
they're told that they're Thugs and criminals and looters and
the next minute everybody's covering the Derek Chauvin
trial. I wonder why that happened
because of the leadership and the tenacity of black
organizing. And so that's why I say I don't
care what white liberals think. We're leading the way.
Hey. Anyway, aren't we?
We're showing the light. We're showing what needs to be
done and what's necessary and sometimes even if they don't
want to pay attention to us, the struggle is so compelling that
even they are forced to. So we as black people have to
know that we're on the right path.
We have to trust our ancestors and the people who have written
about these things and studied these things and organized
around these things before us, we just have to have the
conviction to keep going and to do anything.
It takes to fight for Life because the police the prison
system and Corporate America, and corporate Canada has
demonstrated that it will do anything by any means necessary
to maintain its control and dominance.
So we have to be just as committed or any other side,
right? Wow, this has been amazing and
we've gone over a full hour here and I just, I, I Could go on
even longer and I hope that you could come back because I'm this
is going to be a series every month.
I'm not going to stop talking about it and I'm not going to
certainly not be afraid to say certain words and redefine
certain terms. And I'm asking people to come
with me and listen to this and go to, as Desmond said websites
like defund police dot org and you will see it laid out there
and you Read this and you'll go, that's a good idea.
Why don't we do that? I know you will.
If you have a good heart you will.
But I want to thank those men. Call Our Guest here today on
Rumble for helping us all, turn our heads a bit and rethink.
This it's we're capable of doing that my friends and Desmond.
I can't thank you enough for the work, you're doing and keep
doing it. And we'll stay in touch here
with you and we'll celebrate those victories.
Like you said, it's so important even if they're small victory,
sometimes it's important to do that because when one parent
here is in one school, district that another group of parents in
another school district were successful, or when one town was
able to take away the tank and the military Armament from the
police that wasn't necessary because we don't want to live in
a police state. We already sort of know that we
do we do. So at least can we, at least
take the visual away, just to make us feel better for no?
We don't want people to feel better.
I want us, we have to do the full monty here with this, and,
and we're going to do it, but it's I thank you for the job.
You've done, and are doing Desmond, and thank you.
Thank you very much for the opportunity.
Michael, and the change is happening.
It's not going to happen. It is happening.
We need to expand on it.
I'm with you and thank you and and we'll stay in touch.
Wow. That was there was an incredible
conversation with Desmond, please share with others.
This is such an important subject, my friends and we all
have to get busy and do something about it.
There's a lot of good people working on this issue.
Probably people locally find the people in your town, your city
and in Get active. Please do something about this.
I want to give one sort of sad, but important update on
something that was mentioned in the conversation.
Something that happened here in the last 24 to 48 hours before I
do that. We've got one more entities were
all these Underwriters coming. Thank you to all the people
underwriting Rumble, we're so grateful.
I want to thank just one more before we close out today.
I want to tell you about something that happened in the
last day or so here. But first, a big shout out again
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on, that's be UI by rake, on.com slash Rumble, going to put that
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Tell them that you're grateful to for supporting Rumble.
Well as you know I have spoken since the week of George Floyd's
murder over a year ago about the brave young woman who stood on
the curb and filmed his execution.
Her name is you know is Darnell Frazier and you through this
year. You know we've been in touch
with her family. Offering our support in any way
that we can, I suggested back at the time that we as Academy
members should recognize her for making, the most important piece
of nonfiction. Film of the last year.
Maybe of the last decade it galvanized the world.
She showed us what happened, and she did it with such courage.
She has been recognized by others pain.
America gave her a special Ward. She got a shout out at the
Oscars, but then when it came time for the Pulitzer prizes
last month, they actually gave her a Pulitzer Prize Citation
for her work of Journalism journalism.
The informing of the rest of us about the truth.
About what's going on when she took the stand, during the Derek
Chauvin trial, and she spoke about how every night it's hard
for her to sleep. She says a prayer to George
Floyd begging for his forgiveness as if she still
feels that there's something else she could have done, should
have done to stop the killer cop and how it still is so
destructive to her because she has to think every day.
Day about not just that this could happen to George Floyd as
it did. But she said you remember on the
stand she said I'm not going. I don't have the quote right in
front of me but she said that could have been my father That
could have been my uncle. That could have been any of the
black men in my life. It was so powerful and then,
sadly. Stunningly on Tuesday night of
this week just a day or so ago. Her uncle was killed by the
Minneapolis Police Department. No need to the neck this time.
No. Lynching, just a out of control,
Reckless Police Department. Doing one of those crazy police
chases that they do all across this country, trying to chase
down some bad guy that they've got a catch.
And of course, the cops Reckless out of control.
Drive their car right into Darnell of Fraser's, uncle and
kill him. Innocent bystander on his way
home. Dead tonight dead, because the
police. And the way they police hasn't
changed, they won't change unless we make them change.
Now, you know, if some of you are saying well Mike, you know,
I mean, it must have been a bad guy, cops are chasing them.
So obviously, the guy was guilty.
I had to catch him. Well, I ought to tell you
something. I've never understood the police
chase. I mean, I guess it makes for
good TV but why are all the rest of us put in danger?
And I mean in danger of Our Lives?
Because they're trying to catch somebody who was speeding made a
wrong turn or they suspected. He had marijuana in Wyoming just
to go down the whole. Damn List of why they chase
people in a car, a deadly weapon.
I have said, for some time and maybe a lot of you won't agree
with this, but I'm sorry, I don't believe the police should
ever be. Chasing somebody at 70. 80 90
miles an hour through a city ever.
What is it? What is it?
That they've got to get that's that valuable.
Where would be okay to kill another innocent human being
Being on the street or driving their car because they had that
get there man. We don't live in that world
anymore. They can then we have devices.
We have drones. We have things with license
plates. They can just find out where he
lives where he's going. Remember, when the police in
Atlanta shot? The guy ran away in the wind.
He's drive-through why they already had his license.
They already had him pull over, they knew where he was going.
I'll just go get them. What's the point of shooting
them in the back? What's the point of running them
down? The whoever is trying to get
away, they're not going to get away.
We have so many surveillance cameras on so much.
You can call ahead to other officers, you can put up
roadblocks. Tell me one reason, why we need
to conduct these crazy chases. Well what if he kidnapped a
child, that's even worse, you're making that person that person
the kidnapper Drive 80 miles through the street because
you're chasing with a child in the back, seat of the car.
You're not saving the child, you're putting the child in
danger of dying ice into Bales will before as I was trying to
think all day, what is one good reason?
Reason that justify the police driving like maniacs, like that
to catch somebody. The only reason I can think of
why the police should be on a chase to catch.
Somebody is if the person they're chasing has won the
Heisman Trophy and appeared in the Naked Gun movies.
That's it. No, I'm sorry, I'm being friggin
facetious here. Not even then I said, actually,
the I said, the only reason is if they the cops they were the
radio dispatch said, the man in the white, Ford has stolen the
cure for cancer. He just drove out of the Mayo
Clinic where they've just discovered the cure for cancer
and he has stolen the cure for cancer.
You must go get him, okay? Because that's going to say like
millions of lives and the guys just stolen it.
You still shouldn't try to drive in such a way that you're going
to kill another human being. Well, you know what?
At least we killed Grandma there on the corner of Pine and Oak
Street. That was sad, 89 years old.
She lived a long life, she's dead now, but we got the cure
for cancer. I don't know if you I can even
just justify that, that it's okay to essentially murder
somebody with your cop car accidentally.
Because even that guy, you're going to catch that guy, you're
going to find the car a drone in the sky is going to find this
guy and we'll have the cure for cancer.
There's no reason my friends. I'm tired of I'm sorry to be
just messing around with us but I'm so upset.
I'm so upset that darn Ella had to lose the very uncle that she
talked about on the witness stand at the Derek Chauvin trial
lost him because the police And to drive like crazed Maniacs,
the streets of Minneapolis to get there, man.
Not worth it. My friends never worth it.
We have to start rethinking this.
We have to start doing this differently.
This is a small example. I'm just, I'm sorry I sound
upset because I am upset and and you know and I thank all of you
and everybody in this country and around the world.
For the recognition and the support that you've given during
Ella. I mean it's been great but we
have to get to the root causes of these issues.
All of these issues, the ones Desmond and I were discussing on
this episode. If you want to support Darnell,
oh Frasier so good people, a number of months ago, set up a
GoFundMe in her honor and I will have a link in the description
to this podcast to that GoFundMe page for Darnell.
Oh there's already over seven hundred thousand dollars has
been raised for her. It's called the peace and
healing for Darnell. The scars and the pain and the
suffering that she may have to carry with her the rest of her
life because she had the courage to stand there with her, her
camera and her phone and tell the rest of us in the world.
Just how evil. And how evil in such a common in
Daily way. The people that are supposed to
be protecting us. Have either a knee to the neck.
Or their foot on the pedal driving fast through the city
and killing. Killing her uncle.
So sad and so wrong. That's about all I can deal with
today. I am so grateful that you listen
to this podcast. Please share it with others.
Send me your feedback, send me any ideas things, you like me to
cover, just write me at Mike at Michael more.com.
That's my email address. I read all the emails.
Please send me an email, you can send me a voicemail.
There's a link on the description page.
Also for that. And let's get busy.
My friends so much to do all my love and appreciation to
everyone of you listening to this and who share with me the
intense commitment, to create a better world.
This is my home or in this has been trouble.
So, won't you help to sing these songs of Freedom, cause all I
ever had Redemption songs, Redemption songs.
Redemption songs old Pirates? Yes they rob.
I sold. I to the merchant ships minutes
after they took. I from a bottomless pit.
How long shall they kill our prophets?
While we stand aside and look, Yes, some say, it's just a part
of the, we got to fulfill the book.
Won't you help to sing these songs of Freedom, cause all I
ever had Redemption songs, Redemption songs, the songs of
freedom songs of freedom.