1 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,400 This is rum. Go with Michael Moore and I am 2 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,000 Michael Moore. My guest today is human rights 3 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,100 and environmental activists lawyer. 4 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,600 Stephen danziger, danziger is the lawyer who successfully 5 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,600 sued? The Chevron Oil Company on 6 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,600 behalf of the people of Ecuador, for deliberately, discharging 16 7 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:56,000 billion gallons of toxic waste in the Ecuadorian Amazon between 8 00:00:56,000 --> 00:01:02,400 1964 in 1992, For this amazing legal Victory. 9 00:01:03,100 --> 00:01:05,200 What has Steven danziger received? 10 00:01:06,100 --> 00:01:10,200 Well, today is the 800th day of his house. 11 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,600 Arrest. After Chevron has turned the 12 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:20,700 legal tables on him, this is a bizarre orwellian story that is 13 00:01:20,700 --> 00:01:25,600 happening right now, right here in the United States of America. 14 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:32,500 And I wanted all of you to hear this, please make sure you are 15 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:37,500 sitting in a stable chair. Or are walking on a flat surface 16 00:01:37,500 --> 00:01:41,500 as you're listening to this because this is just blown my 17 00:01:41,500 --> 00:01:46,200 mind and I need to not just have my mind blown by myself. 18 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,900 I need, I need your minds blown with me so we can figure out 19 00:01:49,900 --> 00:01:52,900 what to do here. My friends and thanks again, to 20 00:01:52,900 --> 00:01:58,600 all of you who joined us on Tuesday night for our very first 21 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:03,500 live stream. Q&A, we had a great time with it 22 00:02:03,500 --> 00:02:07,300 and I'll, I'll Post a couple things from this is this is a 23 00:02:07,300 --> 00:02:09,800 Q&A. I do with the members of my sub 24 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,400 stack become a member, if you don't become a member just sign 25 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:19,400 up for the free subscription to my my weekly letter and to this 26 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,700 podcast and be sent right to you in your email, go to Michael 27 00:02:23,700 --> 00:02:28,300 more.com to do that. So before we bring on Stephen 28 00:02:28,700 --> 00:02:33,200 let's give a shout out here to Rog underwriter anchor. 29 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,400 So Stephen, welcome to rumble here. 30 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,700 Thank you so much for being on my podcast today. 31 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,500 Yeah, thank you for having me Michael. 32 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:57,000 You know, I have followed this story of the lawsuit against 33 00:02:57,100 --> 00:03:00,100 first technical, then Chevron bought Texaco. 34 00:03:00,100 --> 00:03:04,900 This is back almost maybe a decade ago and and your 35 00:03:04,900 --> 00:03:10,300 incredible victory in the Ecuadorian Courts for the 36 00:03:10,300 --> 00:03:15,500 indigenous and very poor people of Ecuador, who has have had to 37 00:03:15,500 --> 00:03:22,700 suffer for decades from the toxic waste pollution, Etc, 38 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:28,900 caused by the drilling and Mining of oil in Ecuador, for 39 00:03:28,900 --> 00:03:33,300 these large American oil companies, and then you had this 40 00:03:33,700 --> 00:03:37,000 decade or so, this incredible victory over nine billion 41 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,900 dollars that the Ecuadorian courts said that Chevron Texaco 42 00:03:41,900 --> 00:03:47,900 Chevron had to pay to all the all the people who've been 43 00:03:47,900 --> 00:03:51,700 harmed in Ecuador, and I think though anybody who remembers 44 00:03:51,700 --> 00:03:59,000 this case and and Stephen as many of, you know, is as I said, 45 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:04,600 one of our our top human rights and environmental justice S 46 00:04:04,700 --> 00:04:08,100 attorney's and activist. It just is one of those rare 47 00:04:08,100 --> 00:04:10,800 victories that happened back then. 48 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:15,200 And then I and I think a lot of people sort of then just 49 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,700 probably forgot about it, you know, weren't paying much 50 00:04:17,700 --> 00:04:22,700 attention and then all of a sudden recently thanks to other 51 00:04:22,700 --> 00:04:27,600 people who've been covering this from Katie Helper and on her 52 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:34,800 podcast democracy now, and, and others, all of a sudden, I come 53 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:39,700 to find out a, my apologies for not knowing this that you are as 54 00:04:39,700 --> 00:04:42,600 of today. This is day 800 of you being 55 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:47,300 under house, arrest for just to be clear. 56 00:04:47,700 --> 00:04:49,400 And I'm going to let I'm going to turn this over to you because 57 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:53,100 I want your obviously the best person to tell the story but 58 00:04:53,100 --> 00:04:55,900 these 800 days you have an ankle ankle bracelet on. 59 00:04:55,900 --> 00:04:59,600 Yeah, I do. So I come to you today saving 60 00:04:59,900 --> 00:05:04,700 completely at a loss, to explain to the people were Listening to 61 00:05:04,700 --> 00:05:09,900 this at how in the United States of America and I I almost sound 62 00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:13,700 like I'm being ironic here but because you can we now know, we 63 00:05:13,700 --> 00:05:17,000 can no longer say how is it in the United States of America? 64 00:05:17,300 --> 00:05:19,900 Well, we've learned now, everybody's got their 65 00:05:19,900 --> 00:05:22,500 comeuppance. Everybody's got the lesson that, 66 00:05:22,500 --> 00:05:26,900 yes, just practically anything. Awful can happen in the United 67 00:05:26,900 --> 00:05:29,600 States of America, and your story. 68 00:05:29,700 --> 00:05:33,300 It has messed with my head, to such an extent. 69 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,800 And I thought how How can I do this podcast in a way that will 70 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:42,400 be effective, that will help people understand to ask more 71 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,800 questions and to demand Justice here. 72 00:05:45,300 --> 00:05:47,900 So Steven I'm just going to I'm just going to turn this over to 73 00:05:47,907 --> 00:05:55,400 you and let you tell people why there is a monitoring device, 74 00:05:56,100 --> 00:06:02,800 walked around your ankle. Why you have been inside your 75 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,700 house for eight? Hundred straight days, not 76 00:06:05,700 --> 00:06:08,200 because of covid. Not because of personal choice. 77 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:14,500 But because under threat, of having the feds come and take 78 00:06:14,500 --> 00:06:21,200 you away, What did you do? What what did you do to? 79 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,500 Where our justice system at least, two judges. 80 00:06:24,500 --> 00:06:28,400 Now that I know of that are involved in putting you through, 81 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,600 what seems like a living hell, tell them what has happened and 82 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,200 then we'll take it from there. Thank you so much. 83 00:06:35,500 --> 00:06:38,900 Michael for having me. I've been, you know, admired 84 00:06:38,900 --> 00:06:40,900 your work for a number of years so it's a real honor. 85 00:06:41,100 --> 00:06:44,400 I mean basically what happened is I got out of Law School in 86 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,000 1991 I wanted to do. Human rights law. 87 00:06:47,900 --> 00:06:51,900 I was invited to go to Ecuador the Amazon of Ecuador, where I 88 00:06:51,900 --> 00:06:55,000 had been told that there was a massive pollution problem caused 89 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,000 by Texaco went with some other lawyers. 90 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,200 Some scientists. We spent a week down there, 91 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,300 expected to see pollution saw Willy, what looked like an 92 00:07:04,300 --> 00:07:07,400 apocalyptic nightmare with. Like, literally Lakes of oil on 93 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,900 the ground of the Jungle hundreds of open-air online, 94 00:07:10,900 --> 00:07:15,200 waste pits that Texaco at abandoned and they had pipes on 95 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,700 the sides that We're running the cancer-causing oil waste into 96 00:07:18,700 --> 00:07:22,000 rivers and streams that the indigenous groups were drinking 97 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,600 out of getting their drinking water out of their bathing and 98 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:28,400 fishing. There were massive health 99 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:33,200 problems and it was just shocking to me to witness this 100 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,200 with my own eyes. It was even more shocking to 101 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,600 learn. That this was not a oil spill, 102 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:43,500 it was a deliberate design by Texaco to pollute in order to 103 00:07:43,500 --> 00:07:45,900 save money and to really play God. 104 00:07:46,100 --> 00:07:49,100 With indigenous groups down in this region, as well as rural 105 00:07:49,100 --> 00:07:52,100 communities. The upshot is over, you know, 106 00:07:52,100 --> 00:07:55,700 the 50 or so years. Since this problem began to 107 00:07:55,700 --> 00:08:00,000 manifest, thousands of people have died of cancer and other or 108 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,000 related diseases. It's very, it's not a well-known 109 00:08:04,500 --> 00:08:07,400 situation. I think largely because of its 110 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,400 geographic isolation, and because, you know, the big media 111 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,500 in the United States is for the most part, ignored the story. 112 00:08:15,700 --> 00:08:19,900 But, But we filed a lawsuit here in New York and 1993 against 113 00:08:19,900 --> 00:08:22,300 Texaco, where Texaco does headquarters. 114 00:08:22,300 --> 00:08:26,600 Were Texaco fought for 10 years, to move the case down to Ecuador 115 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,600 where they thought they could get it dismissed, they 116 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,600 succeeded. So, that took a big chunk of 117 00:08:30,608 --> 00:08:33,100 time. A lot of people hurt and died. 118 00:08:33,100 --> 00:08:36,200 During that time, we ended up going down to Ecuador where they 119 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,700 accepted jurisdiction. We fought for eight years. 120 00:08:38,700 --> 00:08:43,200 Won a historic judgment in 2011. The trial was eight years 121 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,900 because Chevron tried to obstruct it and It constantly, 122 00:08:46,900 --> 00:08:50,000 because they were scared of the evidence, the evidence against 123 00:08:50,000 --> 00:08:53,300 him was overwhelming. There were 105 technical 124 00:08:53,300 --> 00:08:57,300 evidentiary report. 64,000 chemical, sampling results that 125 00:08:57,300 --> 00:09:01,900 all pointed to massive and probably unprecedented oil, 126 00:09:01,900 --> 00:09:06,400 pollution in the world. You know, it's called the Amazon 127 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:13,700 Chernobyl and the suffering has been intense, Chevron bought 128 00:09:13,700 --> 00:09:18,900 Texaco in 2001 so they Merited. This problem the company had 129 00:09:18,900 --> 00:09:23,000 left Ecuador in 1992 and all the waste was, is still. 130 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,700 There you go down there today and see Olympic-sized kind of 131 00:09:26,700 --> 00:09:33,800 pools of oil all over the place. The Judgment that we won was 132 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,700 affirmed by six. Different appellate courts, 28 133 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:40,000 appellate judges, the Supreme Court's of Ecuador and Canada, 134 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:45,700 Chevron had promised us courts to comply with the judgment to 135 00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:47,800 pay. As a condition of moving down, 136 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:51,100 moving the case out of the United States to Ecuador, they 137 00:09:51,100 --> 00:09:53,700 immediately went back on their word, they threatened, the 138 00:09:53,700 --> 00:09:56,200 indigenous peoples, with what they called, a lifetime of 139 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,000 litigation if they didn't drop the case. 140 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:03,100 This is after the indigenous groups had one and they then 141 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:09,600 adopted a campaign to demonize the lawyers, primarily me being, 142 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,400 I was instrumental in on the legal team, but hardly alone 143 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,200 there were several lawyers but because I live in New York, And 144 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,100 I began to become sort of the public face of the legal team. 145 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,500 They targeted me with this demonization campaign and they 146 00:10:24,500 --> 00:10:29,200 have since been harassing me through a federal judge here in 147 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,100 New York named Louis Kaplan, who's a former tobacco lawyer 148 00:10:32,900 --> 00:10:36,300 for about the last ten years, they first sued me literally 460 149 00:10:36,300 --> 00:10:40,500 billion dollars in Damages. They sued me personally I'm a 150 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:43,600 human rights lawyer, I live in a small apartment in Manhattan. 151 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:48,200 I'm not a person of great means And they sued me for the most 152 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:49,800 money. Anybody has been sued for in 153 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,300 American history when I didn't quit and that didn't work. 154 00:10:53,300 --> 00:10:57,100 They sued me under the racketeering statute. 155 00:10:57,100 --> 00:11:00,700 Me and all of the 47 named villagers in Ecuador who were on 156 00:11:00,700 --> 00:11:04,500 the lawsuit claiming that the whole case was a conspiracy to 157 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:08,100 extort money from them and Kaplan denied. 158 00:11:08,100 --> 00:11:14,100 Me a jury in this civil RICO case he let Chevron bring up a 159 00:11:14,108 --> 00:11:17,600 witness from Ecuador whom they I paid a bunch of money to million 160 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:20,200 plus dollars. They coach them for 53 days, the 161 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,900 Chevron lawyers and he came in and court and lied about me, 162 00:11:22,900 --> 00:11:25,300 claimed to have been in a meeting where I approve, the 163 00:11:25,300 --> 00:11:28,600 bribe of a trial judge in Ecuador, which was completely 164 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,400 Preposterous and false. There was no evidence to support 165 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,900 it and again, the courts down there had rejected this 166 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:41,300 evidence, but Kaplan this former tobacco lawyer found me liable 167 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,900 for fraud on the Judgment which enabled Chevron then to go after 168 00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:51,000 For me, personally, they got Kaplan to impose, literally 169 00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:53,900 millions, and millions, and millions of dollars of court 170 00:11:53,900 --> 00:11:56,800 costs, and fines on me to reimburse them for their legal 171 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:01,800 fees used to create this fake case against me that essentially 172 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,000 white me out. They took money out of my bank 173 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,100 accounts. They took our life savings, I'm 174 00:12:06,100 --> 00:12:12,200 married with a young son and when they sought my computer and 175 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:17,100 cellphone and Kaplan ordered it, I was very I open with Kaplan 176 00:12:17,500 --> 00:12:20,000 and said, you know, I'm going to appeal this order because it, 177 00:12:20,300 --> 00:12:24,100 you know, it contains privileged information that's protected by 178 00:12:24,100 --> 00:12:28,200 the law and Chevron does not have a right to know our 179 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,300 internal deliberations or any of this privileged information. 180 00:12:32,100 --> 00:12:35,300 And so he held me in civil contempt of court, which is what 181 00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:37,300 I wanted. So I can get an appeal of this 182 00:12:37,300 --> 00:12:41,300 order, this unprecedented order, and while I was appealing, the 183 00:12:41,300 --> 00:12:44,200 law for - of his order that I turn over my confidential 184 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,600 information to Chevron, he Charging with criminal contempt 185 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,400 of court for appealing. While his order was on appeal 186 00:12:52,300 --> 00:12:57,900 again unprecedented, he took his charge to the US attorney's 187 00:12:57,900 --> 00:13:01,400 office here in Manhattan that promptly rejected it and 188 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,500 declined to prosecute me. He didn't quit. 189 00:13:05,100 --> 00:13:09,000 He appointed a private Law Firm to prosecute me without 190 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,300 disclosing the fact that the law firm by the night goes by the 191 00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:15,900 name of Seward. And Kissel had Chevron is a 192 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:21,300 Client he then did something even more outrageous rather than 193 00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:24,800 the case, being assigned through the normal, random assignment 194 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:27,200 process, you pointed, the judge himself Loretta. 195 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:32,500 Preska Prescott is a leader of the Federalist society that is 196 00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:36,100 you know, pro-business right-wing Legal Group Chevron 197 00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:40,100 being a major donor. So both the prosecutor from 198 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:45,500 Chevron Law Firm, the judge had strong ties to Chevron Prescott 199 00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:49,000 at the Quest to the Chevron lawyer Prosecuting me promptly, 200 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,500 lock me up as a Flight Risk, which is completely 201 00:13:51,500 --> 00:13:55,500 Preposterous. Put an ankle bracelet on me and 202 00:13:55,500 --> 00:13:59,000 put me in my home. On August 6, 2019. 203 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,300 Now, 800 days ago. Now, let me, explain for some 204 00:14:03,300 --> 00:14:07,300 perspective, how crazy this is, in the history of the United 205 00:14:07,300 --> 00:14:10,400 States in the context of criminal contempt, which happens 206 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,700 when judges get angry at lawyers and feel like they're disobeying 207 00:14:14,700 --> 00:14:18,500 their orders. The entire history of the 208 00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:23,400 federal court in New York, which began in 1789, the longest 209 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,200 sentence ever. Given a lawyer convicted of my 210 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,600 level of offense is 90 days of Home confinement. 211 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:35,100 No one's even spent a day in jail, Prescott, who locked me 212 00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:38,400 up, as a supposed risk of flight has now kept me at home 213 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:43,100 confinement, you know, more than eight times that amount 800 214 00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:44,900 days. And on top of that, she is 215 00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:51,800 recently To me to serve a six-month prison sentence, which 216 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,500 is the maximum sentence one can give on a misdemeanor. 217 00:14:54,900 --> 00:14:57,300 But again, no one's ever spend even a day in jail. 218 00:14:57,300 --> 00:15:02,800 So this is clearly in my view, retaliation by Chevron and the 219 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,000 Chevron connected, you know, judges and the Chevron connected 220 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,900 prosecutor for my successful work. 221 00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:11,500 Helping the indigenous peoples in rural communities down in 222 00:15:11,500 --> 00:15:13,900 Ecuador, hold Chevron accountable. 223 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:16,700 So I'm suffering, it's Complicated. 224 00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:19,300 But we're strong, and we're resilient and we're going to 225 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,700 we're fighting through this. And I'm getting a huge amount of 226 00:15:21,700 --> 00:15:25,100 support that this is never been seen before in the United States 227 00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:27,100 of America. And let me be very, very clear. 228 00:15:27,100 --> 00:15:30,700 This is a corporate prosecution. I've never seen a corporate 229 00:15:30,700 --> 00:15:32,800 prosecution in America. I mean, I've seen a lot of 230 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,300 corporate control, a lot of corporate influence over our 231 00:15:35,300 --> 00:15:39,000 institutions, but I've never seen a Direct Corporate criminal 232 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,200 prosecution, but that's what's happening to me. 233 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,600 I believe this issue goes well beyond me. 234 00:15:44,100 --> 00:15:45,900 I think it's a part of a new playbook. 235 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,500 By the fossil fuel industry to use against activists and 236 00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:52,400 lawyers and others who are successful in their advocacy. 237 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,900 And they're trying to use my case you know as a weapon to 238 00:15:55,900 --> 00:15:58,600 intimidate other lawyers and Advocates and do not doing this 239 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,700 critically important environmental justice work, that 240 00:16:01,700 --> 00:16:04,800 not only is necessary to hold major polluters accountable but 241 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,600 I believe is also necessary to save our planet. 242 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,800 If anyone is just tuned in or you had this podcast on pause 243 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,300 and now you've come back into the room at some Point here, 244 00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:21,800 this did start to sound like a work of fiction like, well, come 245 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,900 on. First of all, let's just go back 246 00:16:24,100 --> 00:16:27,100 to what you said. I heard you said the words 247 00:16:27,100 --> 00:16:28,400 private. Prosecutor. 248 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,700 I've never heard those words in the United States of America in 249 00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:33,100 my life, probably have prosecutors. 250 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:36,700 We have County Prosecutors, we have DA's, we have Federal 251 00:16:36,700 --> 00:16:40,300 prosecutors. There, are there either elected. 252 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,300 The County Prosecutors often are elected. 253 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,400 The federal prosecutors are appointed They have to get 254 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:51,700 approved by the Senate. So we don't have a system of 255 00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:55,600 courts that are owned and run by private corporations. 256 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,100 And yet your story and I have read everything. 257 00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:01,700 I've read everything keeps referring to the private 258 00:17:01,700 --> 00:17:07,200 prosecution of you and I'm thinking, come on what I do. 259 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,000 Maybe they're just trying to simplify the story because we're 260 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:12,700 civilians. We don't know the law, but 261 00:17:12,700 --> 00:17:18,000 Steven explain to people what You meant when five minutes ago 262 00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:24,099 you said that you were faced with a private prosecutor and a 263 00:17:24,099 --> 00:17:31,300 private prosecution within our very public Judicial System 264 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,300 funded and paid for by the taxpayers. 265 00:17:34,300 --> 00:17:37,300 Not by corporations. I have not been convicted in a 266 00:17:37,300 --> 00:17:40,000 fair trial. I've never been charged with a 267 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,700 crime by a prosecutor, but the judge charged me and had his 268 00:17:43,700 --> 00:17:45,800 friend judge convict me without a jury. 269 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,800 So, technically, I've been convicted, I don't think it was 270 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,900 a fair trial, and I'm appealing in this country, right? 271 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:53,900 Yeah. And when you say his friend, the 272 00:17:53,900 --> 00:17:57,500 other judge, why was there not at why was there not a jury? 273 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,400 Well. Okay, so you know, this is 274 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,800 something I've never seen before, and I've been practicing 275 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,000 law for, you know, almost 30 years. 276 00:18:05,900 --> 00:18:08,600 I wish I did not know this could happen and I'm shocked. 277 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:10,600 It has happened. And I believe it's 278 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,700 unprecedented. And I believe is illegal. 279 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,400 And I believe, I will win my appeal. 280 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,200 But I want to tell you how it's Happened. 281 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,600 So people can understand that little tricks that the judges 282 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,000 can employ to put one in this position if they're threatening 283 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,700 enough. And in my case, there is a very 284 00:18:25,700 --> 00:18:30,400 obscure Federal rule in the courts that allows a judge to 285 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:35,400 appoint a private prosecutor for contempt charges in the rare 286 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,400 cases. When there's some sort of 287 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,100 conflict of interest with the US attorney's office, or there's 288 00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:43,300 not enough resources or whatever. 289 00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:47,400 And all of our research, we've only seen this Used maybe, you 290 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,900 know, five times in the last several decades, since it came 291 00:18:51,900 --> 00:18:56,500 into existence and every time it was used, the person appointed 292 00:18:56,500 --> 00:19:00,100 was a neutral person, was a former Federal prosecutor who 293 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,600 took his or her responsibilities seriously. 294 00:19:04,700 --> 00:19:08,200 So it's extraordinarily rare to see this, but what's never 295 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,000 happened? It has is happening. 296 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,800 Now, in my case is the person appointed by the judge is not 297 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,500 neutral. The person appointed works for 298 00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:19,800 chef Imran and judge Kaplan. Essentially turned over our 299 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:24,500 public prosecutorial apparatus to a private Corporation, to 300 00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:28,200 prosecute, its main critic and deprive him of his Liberty. 301 00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:31,800 You know, not just for a day or a week but now of, you know, 302 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:37,900 over two years and it's just inappropriate and unprecedented 303 00:19:37,900 --> 00:19:41,400 and even scarier is the Appellate Court here in New York 304 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,500 has not stopped it. I've gone up there twice. 305 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,600 And they just sort of say, well, let's let it play out and you 306 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:53,700 can bring your appeal later. So, that's how it happened. 307 00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:57,700 But again, you know, my lawyers and I have extremely well, 308 00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:00,900 regarded lawyers, Marty, Garbus among them lawyers that sucker 309 00:20:00,900 --> 00:20:04,900 man, Spader down in DC and Ron Kuby and Rick. 310 00:20:04,900 --> 00:20:07,700 I'm at the lawyers who've looked at those who have helped me, 311 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:12,900 John kakkar, can't believe it and they all are in agreement 312 00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:17,300 that it's patently illegal. But but you know the whole 313 00:20:17,300 --> 00:20:20,800 process is so slow that they're essentially getting away with 314 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:26,600 punishing me without the conviction being reviewed by the 315 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,000 Appellate Court, and the goal now by Prescott is to put me in 316 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,500 prison for six months and make me serve the entirety of my 317 00:20:33,500 --> 00:20:36,800 supposed sentence before the Appellate Court can rule on the 318 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,200 case and will like and I think they'll exonerate me whether at 319 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,800 least there's a good chance but she wants me to serve my whole 320 00:20:42,800 --> 00:20:45,300 sentence for a crime. I didn't commit and it's all 321 00:20:45,300 --> 00:20:47,300 part of it. I think an abuse of power. 322 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:52,800 I think it's a game to to make me suffer in retaliation. 323 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:56,000 For the work I did to hold a major American Oil Company 324 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,500 accountable for the poisoning of the Amazon rainforest and the 325 00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:02,100 Damage that's caused a thousands of indigenous peoples. 326 00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:04,900 I mean, they just don't like it and they don't want lawyers. 327 00:21:04,900 --> 00:21:08,200 Doing this work and they want to use me and use the harm. 328 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,900 They can cause me as an example to discourage people from doing 329 00:21:11,900 --> 00:21:14,300 this work. So, when this judge Kaplan, 330 00:21:14,700 --> 00:21:18,200 turned the case, Rover, as you said to a private Corporation, I 331 00:21:18,208 --> 00:21:21,600 mean, to a law firm. I mean to a law firm that that 332 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,100 works for Chevron and works for a lot of big oil companies. 333 00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:27,900 I mean, it's really a fossil fuel industry law and this Law 334 00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:33,200 Firm then became the prosecutor. Yes, a private Law Firm became 335 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,000 became a public prosecutor. They are billing, exorbitant 336 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,500 amounts of money, over a million dollars, so far to taxpayers for 337 00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:45,700 their work. When the Normal public. 338 00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:49,000 Secure the professional prosecutor's office here in New 339 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,100 York and when no matter what, you think of the sdn, why, you 340 00:21:52,108 --> 00:21:56,000 know the lawyers there I have found to be professional and 341 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,700 federal prosecutors the southern district of New York and they 342 00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:02,100 refused. They saw cappers charges they 343 00:22:02,100 --> 00:22:06,100 said we're not doing it which is an appropriate decision, you 344 00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:08,300 know. So that one judge Kaplan said, 345 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,900 well to hell with you federal government lawyers, I'm I'm 346 00:22:12,900 --> 00:22:15,700 going to appoint private lawyers and make them public. 347 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,100 Alec and they're going to press this case. 348 00:22:18,100 --> 00:22:20,300 Yes. Because, you know, when a 349 00:22:20,300 --> 00:22:23,600 professional prosecutor's office reviews and case and decides not 350 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,200 to bring charges, that's their discretion. 351 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,500 It's based on their professional judgment, that should be 352 00:22:28,500 --> 00:22:29,800 respected. Okay. 353 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:33,200 At that point. He should never have kept it 354 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,400 going by appointing a private law firm and really abusing this 355 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,900 very narrow rule to a point. A private Law Firm not to 356 00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:43,100 prosecute me Michael, but I believe to persecute me. 357 00:22:43,900 --> 00:22:46,200 Well, that's what it sounds like on this end. 358 00:22:46,900 --> 00:22:50,600 I mean Stephen, let me just let me get this clear because I'm 359 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,300 telling you right now. People are listening to this and 360 00:22:52,300 --> 00:22:57,200 going what this is so bizarre. What is this poor man trapped 361 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,700 in. So this, this judge Kaplan, is 362 00:23:00,700 --> 00:23:03,200 he a federal judge? He's a federal judge appointed 363 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,900 by Bill Clinton in the first Clinton term. 364 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,000 Okay, so he then decides well, the federal, the public 365 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:16,500 prosecutors New York decided there, they don't want to pursue 366 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:18,900 this case. So he's hell-bent on wanting to 367 00:23:18,900 --> 00:23:22,800 pursue it. He hires this private Law Firm 368 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,200 which apparently there was some rule that allows him to do that. 369 00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:29,000 I've never heard of it and then you don't know what was the 370 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,900 reason you didn't get a jury trial. 371 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,200 Did you try to do turndown having a jury? 372 00:23:33,500 --> 00:23:36,800 No, no, I wanted a jury. I ask you when multiple times, 373 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,400 let me explain how it works. And, again, this is another 374 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,700 trick employed by are some judges in our criminal justice 375 00:23:42,700 --> 00:23:44,500 system, I think to do Denied due process. 376 00:23:44,700 --> 00:23:47,200 Look, the US Constitution, clearly states, that, if you're 377 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,200 charged with a crime, you're entitled to a jury of your 378 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,000 peers. Over time, there's been like 379 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:56,500 this custom, where if a judge agrees, to limit your sentence 380 00:23:56,500 --> 00:23:59,600 to six months or less, you don't get a jury. 381 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:05,600 So, what Fresca and Kaplan did in this case is, even though 382 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,700 they charge you with criminal contempt. 383 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,600 And even though, I believe, I was entitled to a jury, Prescott 384 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:14,500 says, okay after locking you up for over two years, Pretrial. 385 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,700 I'll limit your sentenced to six months. 386 00:24:16,700 --> 00:24:19,300 Sorry, buddy. You can't get a jury in the 387 00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:21,300 criminal case. So the very judge who had 388 00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:25,100 already ruled, I was a flight risk and ruled, I was flouting 389 00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:29,400 court orders which was not true. Same judge you'd lock me up for 390 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:33,200 over two years became my fact finder which is really 391 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,100 frightening. So naturally she found me 392 00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:39,200 guilty. Obviously to justify the fact 393 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,600 she'd already lock me up for two years because I think what's 394 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,100 really driving. This is that desire to 395 00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:46,700 criminalize environmental advocacy. 396 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:51,200 I mean that's what really this is criminalized legitimate 397 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,600 advocacy and that's what they're doing to me and a jury would 398 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,200 never buy it. They know a jury would never buy 399 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,200 this Ridiculousness so they just maneuver through the system. 400 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,900 It's the second time I've been denied a jury in these types of 401 00:25:04,900 --> 00:25:06,800 cases, brought by Kaplan and Prescott. 402 00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:08,500 Can I just stop you right here again? 403 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,000 Because I can feel the audience listening to this. 404 00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:16,200 They're all out there already. They've already been shaking 405 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,300 their heads enough to where they're going to need physical 406 00:25:19,300 --> 00:25:22,000 therapy tomorrow. You just said now, for the 407 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,400 second time, not only that, you didn't get a jury trial and you 408 00:25:26,408 --> 00:25:30,800 wanted one and were denied it, that this has happened twice to 409 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,700 you. In this, in this caucus process, 410 00:25:34,100 --> 00:25:38,800 I have never heard and boy and I can, I can go through the list 411 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,500 of everything, this country of how, what it's done to people, 412 00:25:42,900 --> 00:25:46,200 whether It's our fellow Americans or whether it's seven 413 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:50,600 children in a white. Toyota in Kabul with a drone, 414 00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:53,100 blowing them up and killing them. 415 00:25:53,300 --> 00:25:56,500 I know exactly what this government is capable of, so in 416 00:25:56,500 --> 00:25:59,900 and that's why I'm sure you decided to enter this kind of 417 00:25:59,900 --> 00:26:03,200 law, human rights, environmental, justice, Etc. 418 00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:05,800 But friends were listening to this right now. 419 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,600 If you ever heard of somebody say, I couldn't get a jury 420 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:10,100 trial. Did you know that there's this 421 00:26:10,100 --> 00:26:14,200 rule that that if the, if the judge agrees, Is that the 422 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:20,000 sentence won't be more than 6 months, then poof, there goes 423 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,800 your right to a jury trial. I've never heard of this, I'm 424 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,600 sorry to be. So, gobsmacked here, when you're 425 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,400 in the middle of telling your story, but I just, you 426 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:36,100 understand why those of us who just are civilians, were not in 427 00:26:36,100 --> 00:26:39,400 the legal system. Cannot we cannot hear these 428 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,100 words in the United States of America. 429 00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:44,600 I was not allowed a jury trial or that that I was then put in 430 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:49,200 Tried by a private prosecutor. I saw a storyline on that. 431 00:26:49,500 --> 00:26:52,100 CBS show The Good the good fight. 432 00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:56,300 I saw a story line like this, but I know that that's fiction. 433 00:26:56,800 --> 00:27:00,200 This is this is real. I'm talking to you right now. 434 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:05,000 You are what 20 30 blocks from me, you're under house arrest. 435 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,600 This is day. 800, as you told me just before we went on here, 436 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,800 mmm, and you're under house arrest because this is 437 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,600 supposedly the pre-trial of Of what, what's the next trial 438 00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:19,500 supposed to be well, right now, there's no other trial schedule 439 00:27:19,500 --> 00:27:22,200 just to be very clear. When she, when judge press 440 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,700 Coulda died, me a jury agreed to limit the sentenced to six 441 00:27:25,700 --> 00:27:29,400 months. She conducted a quote-unquote 442 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,200 trial. Last May that lasted five days 443 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,000 where I was represented by Ron Kuby and Marty Garbus but it 444 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,300 was, it was a charade. I mean the prosecutor, the 445 00:27:38,300 --> 00:27:42,400 Chevron, prosecutor came in and and called two main Witnesses. 446 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,100 They were both Chevron. Lawyers. 447 00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:48,800 The judge was had Financial ties to Chevron be her leadership in 448 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,000 the Chevron funded Federalist society. 449 00:27:51,300 --> 00:27:55,100 As I said, the prosecutor work for a Chevron Law Firm, it was a 450 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,100 Chevron financed Shimmer controlled criminal trial 451 00:27:59,100 --> 00:28:02,600 without a jury and we didn't put on a defense. 452 00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,400 I mean, the judge ruled I couldn't testify and tell my 453 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,400 story as to why I had legal and ethical grounds, not to turn 454 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,900 over my computer to Chevron and why I appealed that order which 455 00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:16,600 was Just admit legal, ethical, according to experts, and 456 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,300 according to practice in this country, she wouldn't let me 457 00:28:19,300 --> 00:28:22,300 defend myself. So we didn't put up a defense 458 00:28:22,300 --> 00:28:26,500 and we've gone right into the appeal, which we've started to 459 00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:28,500 file. But in the meantime and this is 460 00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:31,300 the ultimate trick that she's trying to employ. 461 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,200 She's trying to get me to serve my entire six-month sentence 462 00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:38,400 after this non-jury trial where she convicted me after not 463 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:42,900 letting me defend myself or put in evidence before the appeals 464 00:28:42,900 --> 00:28:45,000 court can rule. Rollin again, we believe there's 465 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,800 a very good chance, the appeals court will reverse or conviction 466 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,200 and exonerate me, which is why she's so desperate to force me 467 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,100 to serve my sentence. I mean, Michael is almost 468 00:28:54,100 --> 00:28:56,600 unheard of in this country for anyone convicted of a 469 00:28:56,608 --> 00:28:58,300 misdemeanor with no criminal record. 470 00:28:58,300 --> 00:29:00,800 That's me to serve one day in jail. 471 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,200 And this isn't any misdemeanor. It's what's called a petty 472 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,500 offense is the most minor kind of misdemeanor and the federal 473 00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:09,800 system. You don't serve jail time. 474 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,400 So the fact she's giving me the maximum sentence. 475 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,600 This souped-up kind of thing where she denied me, a jury, 476 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,900 just shows the degree of animus that I believe Kaplan and press 477 00:29:20,900 --> 00:29:23,700 can Chevron have toward me and they want to punish the hell out 478 00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:26,400 of me. Make me suffer in retaliation 479 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,800 for winning the case down in Ecuador, but right now, the 480 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,900 issue is do. I have to go to jail during the 481 00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:36,800 appeal or coming? Wait for the appeal to be to 482 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:40,300 happen, and to be resolved before, you know, before I 483 00:29:40,300 --> 00:29:42,900 don't, what is the misdemeanor you've been convicted of 484 00:29:43,100 --> 00:29:45,000 criminal? Contempt of court, which was 485 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,500 Kaplan, just making up a crime. It's there's no crime like this 486 00:29:49,500 --> 00:29:52,700 in a law. It's basically a judge driven 487 00:29:52,900 --> 00:29:55,200 Authority. We hear a lawyer. 488 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,200 A lawyer is given a contempt of court citation. 489 00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:00,300 At least those of us who watch enough. 490 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:05,400 Courtroom dramas, it's because the lawyer has been badly 491 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:09,600 misbehaving in court, standing up objecting to much, not 492 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:14,400 shutting up, the judge gets mad, and then and says, Hold you in 493 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,600 contempt of court. That's my right that if there is 494 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,600 a contempt of court against a lawyer, it's because the warrior 495 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,100 has maybe lost his or her cool. And and the only way the judge 496 00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:30,000 can can get them to calm down is to threat until the lock him up 497 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:31,800 for a night or a day or whatever. 498 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,900 Am I watching too much TV or is it is one? 499 00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:41,800 That is one feature of one type of content but that's not what I 500 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,300 did. What cap? 501 00:30:43,500 --> 00:30:47,000 And did to me as he ordered me to basically violate my ethical 502 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,700 duties to my clients by turnt. You know, that is the indigenous 503 00:30:50,700 --> 00:30:53,700 peoples of Ecuador who are very vulnerable and suffering. 504 00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:57,500 Tremendously by ordering me to turn over my computer and all of 505 00:30:57,500 --> 00:30:59,900 their privileged information to Chevron. 506 00:31:00,100 --> 00:31:02,300 So, Chevron could essentially know everything they were doing 507 00:31:02,300 --> 00:31:06,600 know, their legal strategy, know where they live and entity, and 508 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,800 I was obligated by law, as I saw it by ethical guidelines, not to 509 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,300 do that. Now, I am a man or the rule of 510 00:31:13,300 --> 00:31:15,000 law. I don't just ignore court 511 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,700 orders. I've complied with thousands of 512 00:31:16,700 --> 00:31:19,000 court orders in my career. I mean, this has never happened 513 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,800 to me, but I believe Kaplan, put me in this position. 514 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,000 Deliberately to make me choose between complying with his 515 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,500 unlawful order and complying with my ethical duties to my 516 00:31:29,500 --> 00:31:31,300 clients. And I was very open with him. 517 00:31:31,300 --> 00:31:35,500 And I said, sir, I cannot turn over the computer without a 518 00:31:35,500 --> 00:31:39,400 ruling from the Appellate Court. And as I said, asked him to hold 519 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,900 me in, what's called civil contempt, which is a civil 520 00:31:43,100 --> 00:31:44,900 punishment. Judgment, not a criminal punnet, 521 00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:48,700 not a jail or anything, and he finally did that, and I appealed 522 00:31:48,700 --> 00:31:51,200 and that enabled me to appeal his order, the Appellate Court. 523 00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,400 And again, while it was on appeal, he charged me with 524 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,400 criminal contempt of court, and it was his decision and his 525 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,600 decision alone. Oh, I happen to think that 526 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,700 judges should not have that kind of power that it has to be 527 00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:04,000 approved by a normal Federal prosecutor. 528 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,200 And, you know, not to go back to the civics or anything. 529 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:09,800 But in our country, and all rule of law countries. 530 00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:13,900 Crimes are charged by the executive branch by a They're 531 00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:17,800 not charge a judge's. Okay, judges, preside over the 532 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,200 cases, they don't charge the crimes in this case, Kaplan, 533 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,200 essentially served as my prosecutor. 534 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:29,500 My grand, jury, my regular jury my fact-finder and now my 535 00:32:29,700 --> 00:32:31,400 executioner. I mean, it's like all 536 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,900 Consolidated in the judicial branch and again, I just, it's 537 00:32:34,900 --> 00:32:38,500 just obviously unconstitutional. Did you ever turn over your 538 00:32:38,500 --> 00:32:42,100 laptop or your phone or whatever so that they could glean the 539 00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:44,400 information they wanted from? These devices. 540 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,800 No, I have not yet and I say yet because I'm more than willing to 541 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,700 as long as a protocol could be put in place that protects 542 00:32:51,700 --> 00:32:54,200 privileged information. I mean Chevron. 543 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,600 He had ordered Chevron to be able to use any search term. 544 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,700 They wanted to look at anything on my computer. 545 00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:04,500 I mean, it was, it was not a proper protocol and it would 546 00:33:04,500 --> 00:33:07,800 have forced me to violate my ethical duties to my clients. 547 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:12,700 So, you know, I look forward to the day when we can resolve this 548 00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:16,600 by Negotiating a protocol that protects Privileges and is 549 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,000 consistent with the law. But I've never said, I would 550 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,200 never turn over my computer that hasn't happened yet, so I'm not 551 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,300 in a position to turn it over, but I hope to be at some point. 552 00:33:26,300 --> 00:33:28,900 But, you know, I don't think they really want my computer. 553 00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:31,100 I think what they want is to have me locked up in jail and 554 00:33:31,108 --> 00:33:34,500 they're using, you know, the computer as a pretext to do so 555 00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:35,400 well. Yes. 556 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,900 And and, and they don't even in some sense. 557 00:33:37,900 --> 00:33:42,000 Want just, you locked up in the jail, what they want. 558 00:33:42,300 --> 00:33:47,700 Is you as An example, that's why they haven't done this under the 559 00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:50,300 cloak of secrecy and darkness that you weren't sent off to a 560 00:33:50,300 --> 00:33:55,500 black site where, you know, everybody had hoods on their 561 00:33:55,500 --> 00:33:59,500 heads. No, they this this is to send a 562 00:33:59,500 --> 00:34:01,700 message one. I hate to be sending out via 563 00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:07,200 this podcast to anybody else out there who would dare to take on 564 00:34:08,100 --> 00:34:11,900 these oil companies to do it in the way that you've done it to 565 00:34:11,900 --> 00:34:16,000 protect your His clients by not allowing their information to be 566 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:22,800 had by the oil company and and willing to actually be under 567 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:29,100 house arrest for over two years and and your I assume they've 568 00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:33,300 disbarred you by now. Right, that's another incredible 569 00:34:33,300 --> 00:34:34,699 thing. They just bore me without even 570 00:34:34,699 --> 00:34:36,600 giving me a hearing where I could present. 571 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,800 Show evidence. Okay, so you can't make a 572 00:34:38,808 --> 00:34:43,600 living, this should send a chill down the spine of any Young 573 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,100 lawyer. And a young activist that if you 574 00:34:47,100 --> 00:34:52,600 want to end up like this guy, and this and Stephen Downes 575 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:57,400 occur is someone who play by the rules, someone who went to 576 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,700 Harvard. Some of this is you aren't just 577 00:34:59,700 --> 00:35:03,800 some somebody that they could just, you know, Finding kick to 578 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:07,200 the curb, you're one of our top environmental. 579 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:12,400 Lawyers are top human rights lawyers, and and this case is as 580 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,800 is so outrageous. That the United Nations, Human 581 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,500 Rights Commission has come to your side. 582 00:35:18,500 --> 00:35:22,000 Tell us about that, that I, this is just stunning that. 583 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,400 Now we have the UN and Amnesty International saying that that 584 00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:32,400 there is a crime being committed against you by this so-called 585 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,000 democracy. Yeah, I mean it's extraordinary 586 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,600 isn't it an embarrassing? I shall ask for our country. 587 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:43,700 I mean basically United Nations has various as you know, No, you 588 00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:47,400 know, human rights bodies and working groups, one of which is 589 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,000 called the working group on arbitrary, detention where 590 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,600 lawyers from Amnesty International filed a petition 591 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,400 about my case last January. And a few weeks ago, they ruled 592 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:02,800 that the entire my entire detention at home was arbitrary 593 00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:05,900 was a deprivation of my Liberty in violation of international 594 00:36:05,900 --> 00:36:08,000 law. And they ordered the US 595 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,500 government to have me released into. 596 00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:13,300 Pay me compensation for the harm caused to me and my family. 597 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,800 Like and this came down about 100 a week or so. 598 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,300 Before judge, press Co sentence me to the six months and we 599 00:36:20,300 --> 00:36:24,800 brought it to her attention. Our position is the government 600 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,400 through her. She's obviously a government 601 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,900 official is obligated to comply with this order and of course, 602 00:36:29,900 --> 00:36:31,800 she completely ignored it. You know, there's this whole 603 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,400 view in the Federalist Society World. 604 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,600 These pro-business, judges that international law doesn't apply 605 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:42,000 to the United States and she needed the decision with nothing 606 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,200 but hostility. But it's an incredibly important 607 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:46,800 decision. I urge people to read it. 608 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:51,200 It's on our website. It was it was signed by five, 609 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,500 highly esteemed International jurists, who reviewed the record 610 00:36:55,500 --> 00:36:57,700 or what they were doing to me and concluded that it was a 611 00:36:57,700 --> 00:37:02,000 violation of international law and I assure you Michael that if 612 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,000 this kind of thing was happening in another country that was not 613 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,700 friendly to the United States a country like maybe you know 614 00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:14,900 Russia or China or turkey, you know, the Congress persons in 615 00:37:14,900 --> 00:37:20,000 the state department country like Iraq for example would be, 616 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,800 I mean Iran, I'm sorry would be condemning, it may be all over 617 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,100 the all over it and they're just totally ignoring it and it's 618 00:37:28,100 --> 00:37:30,500 unfortunate. But it's a powerful powerful 619 00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:34,500 decision that gives me enormous support and confidence. 620 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,700 You know, the thing is and that chill that thing. 621 00:37:38,700 --> 00:37:42,600 That what they're using you for which is to shut all the rest of 622 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,300 us up. So that Chevron and place that 623 00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:46,900 people like that can't come after us. 624 00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:49,700 You know, it makes it more incumbent upon all of us to 625 00:37:49,700 --> 00:37:53,500 speak out to go after them. Like we've never gone after them 626 00:37:53,500 --> 00:37:58,900 before to get you out of house, arrest to end this madness, with 627 00:37:58,900 --> 00:38:03,500 your, this private prosecution of you with a private, these 628 00:38:03,500 --> 00:38:08,400 private corporate attorneys that are hired by this judge who has 629 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,500 this connection to Chevron itself. 630 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,300 One of your attorneys. I haven't Look at him about your 631 00:38:14,300 --> 00:38:20,500 case, but I will now because he used to be my attorney more than 632 00:38:20,500 --> 00:38:24,100 a decade ago. He is Martin, Garbus is who I'm 633 00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:30,300 referred referring to his career, began back in the 50s, 634 00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:35,400 early 60s defending. Lenny Bruce the comedian because 635 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:40,200 he was constantly being arrested for telling off-color jokes in 636 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,600 comedy clubs. And what seriously my know young 637 00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,000 people are What? Yeah? 638 00:38:45,500 --> 00:38:48,500 Yes, they you sir arrest Comedians and put them in jail 639 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,600 for saying bad words. But especially when the comedian 640 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,100 started, cutting too close. To the Bone politically, what 641 00:38:56,100 --> 00:38:59,600 was going on, our society. That's when they got in big 642 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,900 trouble and Martin Garbus defended, Lenny Bruce. 643 00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:08,600 And with me, the Bush Administration had sent me a 644 00:39:08,900 --> 00:39:13,400 official notice that they were investigating press. 645 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:18,100 Me for going to Cuba because I took my camera crew to Cuba to 646 00:39:18,100 --> 00:39:22,800 film how the Cubans do their healthcare system for my film 647 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,800 sicko and they were upset at me for that. 648 00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:31,400 And they were starting the proceedings to arrest me and 649 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:36,400 prosecute me, and so mr. Jarvis came in and and to hear 650 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,200 that, after all these years that he's still doing this and 651 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,500 helping you, so happy to hear that. 652 00:39:41,500 --> 00:39:45,100 And I know that he would not take any Case that that didn't 653 00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:50,400 have a righteous cause which the certainly seems to be in. 654 00:39:50,900 --> 00:39:54,400 How are you? The obvious question people are 655 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:55,800 wondering. I mean, I guess we all know 656 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,400 we've all been in their various quarantines and lockdowns and 657 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,900 whatever. So and funny after, you know, 658 00:40:00,900 --> 00:40:05,600 after area after six months of being in my own lockdown I would 659 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,100 I just started joking to people that? 660 00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:09,500 Well, I'm good now. I know I could survive house 661 00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:13,400 arrest. Not so funny right now. 662 00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:18,000 But here you are, it's not your choice to not walk, outside your 663 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,300 door, you have the sub monitoring device on you. 664 00:40:21,700 --> 00:40:26,700 So how are you holding up and and what is your what what sort 665 00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:31,600 of glimmers of hope you have that this is going to come to an 666 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,000 end and you're in the torture of you is going to stop. 667 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,900 Well thank you for asking that. You know how am I doing? 668 00:40:38,900 --> 00:40:41,800 I mean it's in tell the truth, tell the truth. 669 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:47,100 I mean I know it's been a true Terrible ordeal mostly for my my 670 00:40:47,100 --> 00:40:50,700 son who had just started his third straight year in school 671 00:40:50,700 --> 00:40:54,600 without his dad being free and his dad wearing an ankle 672 00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,100 bracelet. It's an ankle bracelet that I 673 00:40:57,100 --> 00:40:59,200 wear 24/7. I never take off. 674 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:02,400 I have to sleep with it and eat with it and bathed with it, and 675 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,700 it beeps at night, sometimes and wakes us up when the battery 676 00:41:05,700 --> 00:41:09,700 runs low. It's a reminder that the state 677 00:41:09,700 --> 00:41:12,900 is always Shackled to your body and monitoring your every 678 00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:15,200 movement. Around your own apartment. 679 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,700 I can't go down to the lobby without Court permission, even 680 00:41:18,700 --> 00:41:22,900 to get the mail. Everything is a Fanta lies, 681 00:41:22,900 --> 00:41:26,100 meaning, like for me to get out of the house, for these very 682 00:41:26,100 --> 00:41:29,600 limited things, I can do like legal meetings. 683 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,200 I have to get 48 Hours Advance permission from a court officer 684 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,200 who, you know, checks the address and all that kind of 685 00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:38,800 stuff. You can't go to dinner. 686 00:41:39,300 --> 00:41:41,000 You can't, you know, the weather's, nice. 687 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,900 You can't go take a run with your kid can Can't, you know, do 688 00:41:44,900 --> 00:41:50,400 anything, you know. So sit here and I think it's 689 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:56,000 designed to drive me crazy. I do think I am resilient enough 690 00:41:56,000 --> 00:42:00,900 to get through it or at least I am so far, but it's make no 691 00:42:00,900 --> 00:42:04,800 mistake about it, it's not easy, it's tough but it's, you know, I 692 00:42:04,808 --> 00:42:07,500 do know Michael. That is designed to drive me 693 00:42:07,500 --> 00:42:11,400 crazy and I refuse to let that happen. 694 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:17,600 So, you know, we I hope my wife and I, we were married 15 years. 695 00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,100 We decided when these attacks started 10 years ago, remember I 696 00:42:22,100 --> 00:42:24,300 said I got sued for 60 billion dollars. 697 00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:28,800 We looked at each other, like what the f is happening to our 698 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,600 lives. And I said, whatever happens. 699 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,400 We cannot let a trauma turn into a pathology, you know, we have a 700 00:42:35,408 --> 00:42:39,200 kid and we said what we're going to try to deal with this 701 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,500 professionally and keep our internal life, as you know, No, 702 00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:46,500 as sort of normal quote-unquote normal as possible. 703 00:42:46,500 --> 00:42:49,100 Which we were able to do for a number of years until they lock 704 00:42:49,100 --> 00:42:51,500 me up. We still are committed to 705 00:42:51,500 --> 00:42:54,200 creating some degree of Happiness, everyday in the four 706 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:59,100 walls of our home despite the situation but it is you know, 707 00:42:59,100 --> 00:43:02,900 it's just there's just no end in sight and it's terrifying 708 00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:07,400 honestly it's terrifying to know that. 709 00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,000 The very people IE judges the very institutions. 710 00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,100 I mean courts is a Lying to protect our rights or the ones 711 00:43:15,100 --> 00:43:18,000 being used as instruments by Chevron to destroy them. 712 00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:20,600 And that to me is the most terrifying thing about this 713 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,700 experience. I simply don't know where to 714 00:43:22,700 --> 00:43:24,500 turn anymore. So what do we do? 715 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:26,400 What do we, what can we do to help you? 716 00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,300 Well, I think there's a couple of things. 717 00:43:28,300 --> 00:43:31,400 I mean, one is you gotta learn about it and spread the word. 718 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,700 We have a website called free donziger.com, where you can go 719 00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:38,600 and get articles and learn more and keep up with events, WE Post 720 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,600 articles and stuff. You can also donate to our legal 721 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,100 defense fund. It's expensive To pay all these 722 00:43:44,100 --> 00:43:47,100 lawyers to protect me against this monster company. 723 00:43:47,900 --> 00:43:51,800 We have a lot of people donate, small amounts, whatever you can 724 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,500 do. Please do, you can find the 725 00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:58,300 Donate button on our website. Again it free donziger.com and 726 00:43:58,300 --> 00:44:00,800 then we asked people to engage in actions. 727 00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,000 For example, one of the actions were asking people to do is to 728 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,400 call Merrick Garland, the attorney general and demand that 729 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:11,900 the doj take back this private Chevron prosecution and take it 730 00:44:11,900 --> 00:44:15,700 over as the government. And at that point dismiss the 731 00:44:15,700 --> 00:44:19,100 case or if not dismiss it at least review it, but it is just 732 00:44:19,100 --> 00:44:23,300 wrong on every level for there to be a corporate prosecution of 733 00:44:23,300 --> 00:44:26,500 an activist in the United States or any rule of law country. 734 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,400 So we're asking people to pressure, Merrick Garland to 735 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:31,700 take over the case. And we're also asking people to 736 00:44:31,700 --> 00:44:38,400 pressure their congressperson to pressure Garland, to review the 737 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,600 case and to take it back. You know, we're fortunate enough 738 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,000 to have six Congress persons led by By Jim McGovern and, and 739 00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:49,900 Jamie Raskin, and Alexandria, acacio, Cortez and Cory Bush 740 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,900 Rasheeda to leave. And Jamal Bowman, they signed a 741 00:44:52,900 --> 00:44:56,300 letter to the attorney general. Last April demanding, he take 742 00:44:56,300 --> 00:44:57,900 over the case and he ignored them. 743 00:44:58,300 --> 00:45:01,300 I don't think that's right. And you know, this also extends 744 00:45:01,300 --> 00:45:06,000 to Joe bide, I mean, Joe Biden appointed Merrick, Garland, and 745 00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,700 Joe Biden, you know, to you know, really walk the walk on 746 00:45:09,700 --> 00:45:11,200 the climate issue. You know. 747 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,700 It's just you cannot have a Rights lawyers who are doing the 748 00:45:14,700 --> 00:45:19,100 Frontline work to say, the planet locked up in the United 749 00:45:19,100 --> 00:45:21,900 States of America. So this implicates, Joe, Biden, 750 00:45:21,900 --> 00:45:25,600 implicates Kamala Harris, and implicates our Congress and it 751 00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:28,700 implicates our government. And I need more people to speak 752 00:45:28,700 --> 00:45:31,700 out and that obviously is going to come from pressure from 753 00:45:31,700 --> 00:45:35,300 citizens like the people listening to this podcast and 754 00:45:35,300 --> 00:45:39,600 you know, so the more you can do the more it can help me and you 755 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,300 know, you can learn more about the actions at the website 756 00:45:42,300 --> 00:45:45,000 again, its freedom 10.com and downs. 757 00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:52,500 Occur is a spelled d0 n as in Don zi ji, ER, so while one word 758 00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:58,900 danziger the on0 ige are free down cigar.com, I will have a 759 00:45:58,900 --> 00:46:01,600 link here on whatever platform you're listening to this 760 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:04,200 podcast, it'll be on our page here. 761 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,600 There will be a link and you can go right to the site. 762 00:46:08,100 --> 00:46:11,600 I'll also put a link I'll put mirror Airlines the Attorney 763 00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:16,700 General's phone number and Email on here so that you can call and 764 00:46:16,700 --> 00:46:22,400 write him and demand, the release of this true patriot who 765 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:28,200 has stood, not just for justice and in for a better Earth here 766 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:33,300 in this country so many years, dedicated to the people of 767 00:46:33,300 --> 00:46:38,000 Ecuador who are not on anybody's radar and you gave all those 768 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,200 years of your life for that. And you one you want an if they 769 00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,300 paid a dime of what they were ordered to pay. 770 00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:48,400 A a Chevron know, they have not been a gimbal of Ecuador, the 771 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,700 judgments been affirmed. They have not paid a penny to 772 00:46:51,700 --> 00:46:55,100 the people of Ecuador which is outraged and But ultimately we 773 00:46:55,100 --> 00:46:58,700 believe we have lawyers fighting to enforce the Judgment against 774 00:46:58,700 --> 00:47:01,500 their assets and other countries and we believe they will be 775 00:47:01,500 --> 00:47:05,700 forced to pay in and you actually you've sort of said 776 00:47:05,700 --> 00:47:09,700 that you want Garland you want the Department of Justice go 777 00:47:09,700 --> 00:47:11,700 like go how have you put this at? 778 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:16,800 You've dared them to Look, I don't want to be prosecuted 779 00:47:16,800 --> 00:47:19,300 obviously but I bet if I'm going to be prosecuted. 780 00:47:19,300 --> 00:47:22,900 I want the doj to prosecute me, not Chevron. 781 00:47:23,300 --> 00:47:27,700 And I'm probably the only lawyer ever in the u.s. to basically be 782 00:47:27,700 --> 00:47:31,500 begging the Department of Justice to prosecute him or her 783 00:47:31,500 --> 00:47:34,400 from, that's my position. Please prosecute me. 784 00:47:34,900 --> 00:47:38,000 If you're listening attorney general you know look at this 785 00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:41,300 case and please do not let Chevron prosecute me and lock me 786 00:47:41,300 --> 00:47:43,200 up like this. It's just not right, it's not 787 00:47:43,300 --> 00:47:46,500 Not consistent with our constitution or, or our laws. 788 00:47:46,500 --> 00:47:49,300 So I'm asking you to prosecute me. 789 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,800 And as part of that prosecution, use your discretion and 790 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,200 hopefully you'll see that these charges are baseless and the 791 00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,300 case should be dismissed. But, you know, you got to 792 00:47:58,300 --> 00:48:02,300 intervene and prevent this private prosecution from 793 00:48:02,300 --> 00:48:05,900 continuing any further. And you also, I believe need to 794 00:48:05,908 --> 00:48:09,900 comply with the United Nations, working group decision and, and 795 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:13,800 make sure that I'm released because my detention is Is 796 00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:16,900 violation of international law. Oh, man. 797 00:48:18,100 --> 00:48:21,900 I'm so sorry. You know, I pay my taxes and so 798 00:48:21,900 --> 00:48:25,000 I'm paying for your house incarceration. 799 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:28,800 Well, you know, I want to say this about money, if I may. 800 00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:34,100 Yeah, the process estimate. The prosecution of Me by Chevron 801 00:48:34,100 --> 00:48:37,400 cost taxpayers to three million dollars. 802 00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,700 At least, it's just the fees for the private Chevron Law Firm. 803 00:48:40,700 --> 00:48:43,200 You know, their grifters. They were billing tax. 804 00:48:43,300 --> 00:48:46,500 Spay errs to prosecute me as Chevron. 805 00:48:47,500 --> 00:48:50,500 In addition to all the staff time and the use of the 806 00:48:50,500 --> 00:48:53,200 courtroom and has gone on for two and a half years. 807 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:57,500 Now, all the legal work, I mean in, this is a misdemeanor. 808 00:48:57,800 --> 00:48:59,900 Do you know how much money a defense lawyer? 809 00:48:59,900 --> 00:49:02,600 Who's assigned by the court to represent a misdemeanant 810 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,600 defendant gets paid? It's a flat in New York. 811 00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,800 It's a flat rate of 4,000 dollars. 812 00:49:08,300 --> 00:49:11,700 Okay, I'm a misdemeanor defendant and they have spent 813 00:49:11,700 --> 00:49:15,400 millions of dollars on this. Because it's a retaliation case 814 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,200 and it's the taxpayers are subsidizing. 815 00:49:18,700 --> 00:49:23,500 My prosecution a my detention, you know, not because it's in 816 00:49:23,500 --> 00:49:27,200 the public interest obviously. But to help Chevron extinguish 817 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:30,200 the voice of an important lawyer or try to at least. 818 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,100 I mean, obviously, I'm still talking and I will talk for as 819 00:49:33,100 --> 00:49:36,500 long as I'm out in my house even though I'm detain. 820 00:49:36,900 --> 00:49:40,600 But this is taxpayer-funded to an enormous degree. 821 00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,900 Which is another aspect that I think is very Pensive. 822 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,300 Wow, just just to make the point. 823 00:49:46,300 --> 00:49:49,400 Again, we're talking about a misdemeanor under house, arrest 824 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,700 for 800 days, a contempt of court citation. 825 00:49:53,700 --> 00:49:57,200 Just essentially, with the power that judges have just made up by 826 00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,900 this judge, who is a chief advisor to the Federalist 827 00:50:00,900 --> 00:50:03,900 Society. That's the right wing group. 828 00:50:03,900 --> 00:50:07,500 That is, it was advising Trump. It's where we got our last 829 00:50:07,500 --> 00:50:13,000 three, justices to the Supreme Court from, you know, I know to 830 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:15,400 some Listen, as you think, well, maybe this is just kind of a 831 00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:19,100 small case, it's not the big stuff that we, that's facing the 832 00:50:19,100 --> 00:50:22,000 Supreme Court, but my friends is, I don't even need to say 833 00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:23,300 this to you. If you're already listening to 834 00:50:23,308 --> 00:50:27,900 this podcast, you know, that if we let them get away doing this 835 00:50:27,900 --> 00:50:31,900 to just one person, we're all in trouble, we're all under threat. 836 00:50:32,300 --> 00:50:35,000 And the fact that you had to, on this podcast, some of you many 837 00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:39,500 of you here, for the first time, things like, no, jury trial 838 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,200 allowed, the federal judge turned it over. 839 00:50:43,300 --> 00:50:46,300 Over not to a federal prosecutor because they wouldn't prosecute 840 00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:51,100 Steven donziger. So they got a private company. 841 00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:56,100 Private Law Firm to do this case, there are private 842 00:50:56,100 --> 00:50:57,600 prosecutor. I've never heard of such a 843 00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:59,700 thing. I never heard of anybody under 844 00:50:59,700 --> 00:51:05,600 house arrest for 800 days. Even if you had covid you 845 00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:08,700 wouldn't be in bed for 800 days. I mean I'm just serious folks 846 00:51:08,700 --> 00:51:13,200 this is this is madness and Steven I am sorry. 847 00:51:13,900 --> 00:51:16,700 That you've had to go through this i-i'm sorry. 848 00:51:16,700 --> 00:51:19,100 I didn't know about it. So how do we go eat for 800 849 00:51:19,100 --> 00:51:20,500 days? And that knows, I know. 850 00:51:20,500 --> 00:51:24,700 I know why we had to get rid of tromp, we had to stop a war. 851 00:51:25,100 --> 00:51:28,100 We had, you know, there's a whole bunch of things going on. 852 00:51:28,100 --> 00:51:30,700 I know this, I know this but this is when it happens. 853 00:51:30,700 --> 00:51:33,500 My friends, this is when it happens, when you lose your 854 00:51:33,500 --> 00:51:38,500 democracy, when you lose your freedoms because they it's Death 855 00:51:38,500 --> 00:51:41,000 By A Thousand Cuts, who the hell is Stephen. 856 00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:45,200 Downes unsecured right. And when he's not here, ok Nida 857 00:51:45,900 --> 00:51:49,200 we got real stuff, we're dealing with and that's how it happens 858 00:51:49,600 --> 00:51:53,300 Bit by Bit by Bit that person there and person there. 859 00:51:53,700 --> 00:51:56,800 Boom, people don't talk about it, it will know about it. 860 00:51:57,500 --> 00:52:01,800 They, you know, is there been a story in the times about this 861 00:52:01,900 --> 00:52:05,500 about about this? This house arrest know? 862 00:52:05,900 --> 00:52:08,700 The times I wasn't covered this matter for seven years. 863 00:52:08,700 --> 00:52:11,800 For the most part, they ran a teeny little story when I was 864 00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,800 convicted but You know, I've pitched them. 865 00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:18,400 I know a bunch of reporters there and I pitched a bunch of 866 00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:19,700 them over the last couple of years. 867 00:52:19,700 --> 00:52:22,200 I think the story, I mean, even if you don't like me, you got to 868 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:23,900 admit. It's pretty newsworthy went to 869 00:52:23,900 --> 00:52:27,600 Harvard Law grad, you know, with my background of stuck in this 870 00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:32,100 home for over two years but they, you know, and look, 871 00:52:32,100 --> 00:52:35,100 there's journalist flying here. Thousands of miles away from 872 00:52:35,100 --> 00:52:38,400 places in Europe to interview me and they're down the street near 873 00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:41,300 where you live their headquarters and they won't even 874 00:52:41,300 --> 00:52:44,500 come here. So, You know, many of them live 875 00:52:44,500 --> 00:52:46,000 in this neighborhood. Yes. 876 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,000 Many of them, some of them live in my building. 877 00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,900 Yeah, this is. This is madness. 878 00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,800 Yeah, I hope I hope somebody listening to this an American 879 00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:58,400 that not a foreign journalist who's been. 880 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,100 They've been covering it. But an American journalist 881 00:53:01,100 --> 00:53:03,900 American show on cable news. Whatever. 882 00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:08,700 This is just crazy. I will do my part to raise hell 883 00:53:08,700 --> 00:53:11,300 about this. I'll make my phone calls 884 00:53:11,300 --> 00:53:12,800 everybody. Listening, you make your phone 885 00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,100 calls. I'll send your emails to the 886 00:53:15,300 --> 00:53:18,700 attorney general. How about the movement here to 887 00:53:19,300 --> 00:53:21,400 free? Steven from his house arrest, 888 00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,200 but also from the persecution, in general that I'm sure will 889 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:30,600 continue with Chevron and easy for me to say, but please nobody 890 00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,800 take away from today's podcast. The lesson that you see, see 891 00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:38,100 what happens to you. If you rock the boat, You fight 892 00:53:38,100 --> 00:53:41,200 City Hall. This is what happens to you as 893 00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:45,200 if we all if that's the lesson we learn from the case of Steven 894 00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:50,900 donziger, well we're over That's it. 895 00:53:51,700 --> 00:53:56,800 I refuse to be over. So my friends, do what you can 896 00:53:56,800 --> 00:53:59,300 do? I'll do what I can do in Steven, 897 00:53:59,700 --> 00:54:02,000 you hang in there, please. Thank you. 898 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:04,900 This is a horrible trauma that you've had to go through. 899 00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,500 Sometimes, I don't know how people get through this and 900 00:54:09,500 --> 00:54:12,000 makes what I've had to go through seem like small 901 00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,700 potatoes. So thank you for the work. 902 00:54:14,700 --> 00:54:19,000 You've done over all these years to stand up for this planet to 903 00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:23,600 stand up for the people that Are suffering because of what these 904 00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,800 large corporations do, especially what they do in the 905 00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,800 third world. It's it means a lot to me 906 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:30,400 personally. I want you to know that. 907 00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:32,300 I know it does to people listening. 908 00:54:32,500 --> 00:54:34,500 Yeah. If I could just say, before we 909 00:54:34,500 --> 00:54:39,200 part here, I have loved and admired your work for so many 910 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,900 years is truly an honor to share this story with you, in 911 00:54:41,900 --> 00:54:47,200 particular and your audience, that I know loves to follow you 912 00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:51,400 and loves your journalism and your Will you expose the truth 913 00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,600 and the way you take on and trench interests over your life 914 00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:59,900 and it's an inspiration to me. So to get those kind words from, 915 00:54:59,900 --> 00:55:03,500 you means a lot personally to me and my family and I just want to 916 00:55:03,500 --> 00:55:06,100 finally say, you know, I don't want people to hear my story and 917 00:55:06,100 --> 00:55:08,400 be demoralized. We must act. 918 00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,900 We must organize and we must continue to build the support. 919 00:55:11,900 --> 00:55:15,800 We have a lot of support and I want to just end by saying, you 920 00:55:15,808 --> 00:55:19,000 know, this is happening to me because the people of Ecuador 921 00:55:20,100 --> 00:55:23,400 Spoke truth to power. They want a historic court case 922 00:55:23,700 --> 00:55:26,700 and they were successful and continue to be successful. 923 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,800 This is happening because of our success, not because of anything 924 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:33,900 wrong that occurred. And I want to be very clear 925 00:55:33,900 --> 00:55:36,000 about that. When you are successful, you're 926 00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,400 going to be subject to these kinds of attacks. 927 00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,600 I think this is wholly unjustified, the attacks, but 928 00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:43,900 just remember it's happening because of our success. 929 00:55:43,900 --> 00:55:47,000 So, let's continue to organize and push this out there and 930 00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:48,800 spread the word. And I thank you again for the 931 00:55:48,800 --> 00:55:50,000 time. Thank you. 932 00:55:50,100 --> 00:55:54,300 Stephen and thank you to all of you who listen to this podcast. 933 00:55:54,300 --> 00:55:59,200 Today we have work to do, so let's do it and you hang in 934 00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,700 there. Help, I hope is on the way here. 935 00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:06,500 I have a feeling that the thousands of people who listen 936 00:56:06,500 --> 00:56:11,000 to this are not people who are couch potatoes, we are active 937 00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:14,200 citizens in our democracy. And in fact, it's almost 938 00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,200 redundant to have to even say you're an active citizen. 939 00:56:16,200 --> 00:56:19,700 Because if we're not active in a democracy, if you're not active, 940 00:56:20,100 --> 00:56:24,000 The Democracy ceases to exist. It's only a democracy because 941 00:56:24,000 --> 00:56:29,500 the citizens are active and, and we can't let this continue with 942 00:56:29,500 --> 00:56:32,800 you and God man, it just makes me wonder how many other Stephen 943 00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,100 Downes occurs. There are in this country. 944 00:56:35,100 --> 00:56:38,000 I think we know the answer to that of people who have been 945 00:56:38,100 --> 00:56:42,800 abused by our justice system that often times is not set up 946 00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,400 for justice. It's it's set up to help those 947 00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:51,600 who are well off and do not Want things to change and they can 948 00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:54,700 see the tide, they can see the rising tide that's happening. 949 00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:58,600 They can see the younger generation not willing to put up 950 00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,200 with this any longer and to not go through another generation 951 00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:06,100 where we have this kind of disparity, it has harmed us as a 952 00:57:06,100 --> 00:57:09,400 people. It is harmed, our environment 953 00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:14,800 and to put up with it a day longer is to acknowledge that. 954 00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,700 It's okay. To let this all go away. 955 00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,700 Well, it's not okay with me. So, everybody listening, do your 956 00:57:21,700 --> 00:57:23,200 part? Go to these links? 957 00:57:23,900 --> 00:57:29,200 Go to free donziger.com. And we'll do our best to help 958 00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:31,100 Steven here. All right, my friends. 959 00:57:31,100 --> 00:57:34,300 That's it for today. Thank you to our executive 960 00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:38,500 producer, bezel, Hamden and our editor, Nick, quas, and sound 961 00:57:38,500 --> 00:57:43,800 engineer Donald Bornstein, our researcher, Harrison, Malkin, 962 00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:47,600 and all others who Assist me in doing this. 963 00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:51,200 Thanks to all of you. Paid members who tuned in to the 964 00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:55,100 live Q&A here this week. That was a lot of fun will do 965 00:57:55,100 --> 00:57:58,400 another one next month. If you are already a member of 966 00:57:58,400 --> 00:58:02,000 my Subspace act where you get my column each week and this 967 00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:06,100 podcast emailed to you, thank you for being a member. 968 00:58:06,100 --> 00:58:09,800 It's free. And for those who want to donate 969 00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:13,000 to the cause here, what we're trying to do, then we do this 970 00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,800 little Q&A every month and we have a movie night So if you 971 00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:20,000 want to join us, please do that. It's a lot of fun. 972 00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,900 All right, everybody, man, this kind of knocked the wind out of 973 00:58:23,908 --> 00:58:25,700 me. Here I am. 974 00:58:25,700 --> 00:58:28,700 Just so I'm in such a rage that I hate it. 975 00:58:28,700 --> 00:58:30,600 When I don't know, shit that's going on. 976 00:58:31,100 --> 00:58:37,300 And I followed this case, almost a decade ago, and wow, what a 977 00:58:37,300 --> 00:58:40,000 great day it was for the Ecuadorian people, that, that 978 00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:44,400 Chevron Texaco Chevron was brought down by this attorney, 979 00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,400 in the fact that he would have To pay for this through this 980 00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:53,300 kind of persecution. He's years later, I guess they 981 00:58:53,700 --> 00:58:55,600 have a long memory well so do we. 982 00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:00,600 So let's let's all of us do our best to help out. 983 00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:04,600 Stephen danziger have a good day and a good evening my friends 984 00:59:05,100 --> 00:59:10,500 and I will send you my sub stack if you're signed up for it on 985 00:59:10,500 --> 00:59:14,800 the Sunday and will be back next week here on Rumble with Michael 986 00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:21,400 Moore and Still him Michael Moore over now.