Welcome to another episode, Black Geek Energy.
Today's iconic guess is someone whose works has been shaping
culture, whether people realize it or not.
For creating iconic numbers for films like Hairspray, Footloose
and a setup franchise, to making productions like Aladdin and a
Console, his choreography has helped to find how people show
up in film, TV, and pop culture. If you ever caught yourself
remembering a dance scene long after the credits roll, there's
a real chance our guest has had something to do with it.
He's also a standout judge and frequent dance instructor on
RuPaul's Drag Race, breaking energy, precision and
personality to one of the most influential shows in
entertainment today. But he did stop at choreography.
He stepped behind the camera and I right that the documentary
when the beat drop who tells the powerful story rooted in a black
queer dance culture. And now he's leveling up yet
again, stuffing to the narrative filmmaking with his upcoming
film major produced by her. And this lady, I don't know if
you heard of her. Her name is Oprah Winfrey,
making this film one of the most sought after, hyped up HBCU
films since Drumline. This is someone who's worked
with legends, built a career across multiple lanes, and it's
still finding ways to push the culture forward.
Joining us today is Jamal Sims. Yeah.
For the show Welcome to the show.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Wow, You know, it's, it's so
funny hearing all that stuff. I'm like, who are you talking?
Like, it's so even feel like, you know, like I did that stuff.
Time just flies. And, you know, so thank you for
that amazing intro. And hopefully the viewers
haven't logged off like, oh, we're tired of it.
Yeah. Look.
I didn't even mention all the concert tours that you did.
You write with Madonna, Britney Spears, Jennifer Lopez, You did
this 24 year Lion King that just happened a few years ago and you
recently was at the Miley Cyrus 20 year anniversary.
Yes. Wow, such a career, such a
great. Career.
Yeah, look, it's been good. You know, life has been good and
I've been very lucky. And I'm very grateful because I
know that, you know, this, this kind of career, you know, it
doesn't happen to everyone. So I'm always extremely grateful
that, you know, I have these opportunities that come my way
and they end up, you know, I've end up making like amazing
friends and, and memories that just will go on long after I'm
gone, you know? So yeah, it's, it's, it's really
cool. Yeah.
Well, we hope to be one of your friends someday.
Hopefully this conversation will get us closer in that Jamal
Simms inner circle. Bye.
Let me ask one of the toughest questions you ever had at A at a
interview like this. You posted OK a while ago.
I think it was to your story, 'cause I can't find it anymore.
You posted the a little flashback to this R&B group that
you helped choreograph. When are we doing the reunion
tour of this R&B group? Did I take it down?
Did I take that down? I don't.
Look, let me tell you, I'm
ready. I'm ready for a reunion.
That was that was my first love. Literally all I really wanted to
do after I saw Michael Jackson and The Wiz and I, I started,
you know, I dove into like, performing arts.
I just wanted to be a new addition.
And so I put together my own new addition with my cousin, my
brother and, and, and some friends around the block.
And yeah, we actually had a record deal and put a little
album out. Yeah.
So that was my life before dancing.
OK, OK. Singing and dancing about
singing. Now, one of the first things,
because I saw you on Drake Race and then I saw you, I heard
about this little production from my friend Lionel Goodwin.
He was going to be in when the beat drops.
I was like, what's this about? He said, Jay.
I'm like, Jay said it. Well, let me sit down and have
the popcorn ready, honey, because DeMarcus can tell you,
I'll be dancing the storm by myself in Hampton, VA, getting
getting kicked out of stadiums, getting fired from Hampton,
having to see the Provost, all that stuff.
But yes, it's a long story. Hard to be telling the truth.
Tell the man every game you would think he was leading the
dancers. I don't think he was.
He was head captain. I love that.
But what made you kind of venture off into the
performances that you were doing and choreographing into
something like when the beat trucks that J setting world that
you were that that was happening?
Well funny is I I went to my first trip to Atlanta and it was
actually black gay pride weekend to a place called Tracks and it
was like 1. I don't know if y'all y'all
might be too young to to know what Tracks is, but let me tell
you, it went down in tracks and I had never it was my first.
It was actually like my second or third gay club.
I I did like a couple in LA, but I went to Atlanta because I was
hoping that nobody would know me.
And I will walk in and I'll you know, so I have my hoodie, you
know, I'm, you know, I was covered up in the back and I was
sitting like against the wall. And I can remember vividly these
this crew walking in with these white patent leather Nancy boots
and they walked through the club and everybody kind of it, it, it
felt cinematic. It felt like a movie.
People were moving out of the way and they were marching
through it. And I was like, what in the, you
know, I didn't know what it was, what they were about to do.
There ain't no Hooters outfit on.
And and then another crew came on the from the other side and
they parted to see, and then they met in the middle and then
they just started dancing. And it was some of the most
athletic. Gas.
Dancing, I had ever seen that the flips that I mean, the, the
agility, everything that they did just blew me away.
And so I remember saying at that point, like, why don't we know
anything about this on the East Coast?
I mean the West Coast, like we had not, I knew nothing about
the culture at all. And so obviously we don't have,
you know that here. So, you know, I had to go to the
South to to get it. And once I saw it, I was asking
people like, where can I see, you know, where are they going
to do this again in somewhere? And they were like, yeah, go to
Piedmont Park tomorrow, Saturday.
It's one day weekend, one day weekend, no Labor Day weekend.
And I saw him again on Saturday, and they were out there
battling. And I remember saying, like, I
want to do a movie about this because this is a world that
people don't know about and people need to know about, you
know? So, yeah, cut to what, 20 years
later, I've been choreographing a whole bunch of music videos
and a bunch of movies and I really wanted to start taking
directing seriously. And there's.
And so I thought, well, maybe I could do a documentary on these
guys, you know, And I, my producers came Jordan, Jordan
fitting and came on and my DP John, John, I got thing.
What is John's last name? Oh, I'll get it, I'll get it.
I got it. I know what John's last name.
Bang it. Dang it, Dang it.
Hold on one SEC. Orphan John.
Orphan John Orphan came and we all went down to Atlanta and I
had some crews already lined up to talk to and they end up
saying we're not interested. What?
Whoa, Mind you, I had hired everybody, cameras, everything,
brought everything down to Atlanta thinking that everybody
would be like excited to get, you know, to have the movie done
about them. And they were like, no, we we
don't want to be made of. We're not.
We're not looking to be, you know, mockery of and and and,
you know, people will see us as like just boys and booty shorts
and lashes. And, you know, we're more than
that. And I and I was like, yeah, you
are. And that's why you should let me
tell this because I'm not interested in doing making you
guys look like buffoons or you know what I mean?
Like something that they were, you know, characters.
That's that's what they're afraid of.
And I said, that's not my interest.
I said, I'm a dancer. So I know what the passion, but
you, what kind of passion you have to have to be able to do
this stuff. Yeah.
What kind of passion you have to do to stay out in the club.
So 2:00 and 3:00 in the morning till everybody goes home.
So you could do this particular dance.
So it just meant so much to me. And it was deeper than just, you
know, telling their stories, although their stories were
amazing. And I knew you would really get
to the grid of it. If they can just trust me, they
end up doing it and we end up having an amazing movie.
I'm so proud of that. Me too.
Yeah. It was a good movie.
I watched it before, before we did this show.
So they weren't, they weren't worried about you making them
look like funny, foolish or anything like that.
They were just worried about the the reception of the movie.
They were, they were worried about me.
They didn't know me. So that I was going to just, you
know, do some sort of like TV, you know, reality type thing
where they're, you know, bitching against each other, you
know, I mean, like, so I wasn't interested in that, you know, so
they didn't want to want, they were really serious about what
what they do in their craft and they wanted the movie to reflect
that. And I'm like, that's, that's
what I'm trying to do, you know. And so slowly I, I gained their
trust as we started filming and they started to see what I was
doing and the questions that I was interested in asking them.
And yeah, so that that's how it all came about.
Yeah, and I unfortunately, DeMarcus is a heterosexual.
Wait a minute. Yeah, let me log off.
Let. Me log off minute came from
straight people without us there is no you we.
Didn't ask for that. So but DeMarcus, I haven't
actually since you saw the movie, what did you think about
like this J sex scene and how did it resonate with you?
So I actually have seen like, I haven't seen like a full battle,
but I've seen like Jay setting in the street before.
And I was like, oh, my folks dancing in the street.
This is Atlanta. It happens.
I kept on driving in in the movie.
I'm like, I was like, wait a minute.
I was like, Oh, that's, but this, I was like, Oh, this is
hella dope because I can't dance like that.
I was like, you know, I'm not throwing my legs in the air,
hidden flips and stuff. So I was impressed.
I was like, I was like the strength, like you were saying,
Jamal, just like, yo, the the commitment, the passion, like
I've been in the band. We've done like, you know, like
dance dance sets or whatever. And like, I know how much that
took out of meat to get that stuff right.
And then to do this, you know, I was like, this is like levels
and like magnitudes beyond what I was doing.
So yeah, I was, I was just impressed.
And I was like, I was like, I want to go like the club.
I don't think the club is there no more.
I think like, no more. It's like I want to go see some
of this stuff live. Yeah, yeah.
And that's that's the whole point.
And, you know, it's so cool to hear, you know, a straight
perspective too. Like, you know, although, you
know, you know, this the, the subjects were queer.
I felt like it was like a universal story that anybody can
relate to. If you have a passion to do
whatever it is, play instruments, dance, play sports
or whatever this is, that that's really what the message is, is
that, you know, against all odds, go do it.
Like I don't care what people, if the people say it's for girls
or if they say, you know, you're too short or whatever it is,
like it's, it's for everybody. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. And I, I remember those
conversations with, like, now he was like, I'm a school teacher.
I can't be having everything on me.
But yeah, he was really interested because, you know, it
pushed the culture forward. And I think that he wanted to
tell that story as well. So fantastic, Fantastic
documentary. Thank you.
All right, so we have to turn to miss RuPaul's Drag Race.
Now. Honey, I hope you have gone from
choreographer to a guest judge. I always wanted to know what is
it like because you have choreographed professional
dancers who trained their whole lives and then going to
choreographed for these drag Queens that you know may not
have danced ever. So how is it where you have to
get them to get it in the short amount of time and the the the
comparison between the two? You want to know the truth.
You want me to give you the PCs and not you called the truth.
The truth is it is. It's terrifying because I'll
tell you why. You know, I because I come from
dance. I know what it is to, you know,
to be in competition and to be not only be in a competition,
but have the cameras on you while you're in a competition.
Yeah. You know, there's like another
level of of insecurities and then you're asked to dance.
Well, a lot of these Queens, if you turn on a record, they will
perform their ass off. Like they will do the things,
but some of them don't know how to catch on to choreography.
That's different than just going out and freestyle and then doing
your thing. But when you ask them to do a
choreographed step, something, you know, that has a sequence
that you have to, you know, be sharp and watch the lines and do
the things, it becomes something else.
And so I'm always walking in, like, I know they're terrified,
but I'm terrified because I want them to look good.
I don't want them to look bad at all.
So we meet and we're looking at each other like, I'm fearful.
They're fearful. I'm like, we got to get through
this. Yeah.
Oh. And so I'm always really amazed
how they just pull it out like, no, you know, like, at the end
of the day, you know, they're performers.
They get over their fears and all.
Even if they can't dance, they'll figure out something,
you know? We'll figure out some way to
work it out where they feel good to perform, you know?
Nice. I will never forget how you said
learn these dance moves and it throw them out the window
because your performance is all that matters.
And you always, I think that you always give them such a great
criticism when you're judging them, you know, to say you don't
keep going forward, keep doing what you're doing, even with
people who don't necessarily reform the best.
You are always, always encouraging.
So thank you. That means a lot.
You know, like I said, they're
under the gun. They're under the pressure.
The pressure is real. And I feel it.
I I feel it. And I'm like, if I could be the
one bit of light, you know, that, that they're like, OK,
well, at least we know he's not trying to, you know, sabotage
us. You know, that's, that's the,
that's what I want to be and that's what I want to be.
That's cool. So in that situation, is it?
Is it, is it like a learn the rules so you can like break the
rules kind of situation? Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean,
no, you know, but obviously when you're choreographing with a
group, I mean when you're dancing choreography with the
group, you have to stay in in line, you know what I mean?
You, you can't just go about and do your own thing.
But I do say make it your own, you know?
And so, you know, if you're doing it, if it's sexy, be sexy.
If you're a sex kitten, you know, make it sexy.
If you're a comedy queen, then you can be funny while you do
the moves, but the moves have to be there, you know?
So the framework definitely there.
Put yourself inside of it, not just disregard what we did, you
know? Yeah.
OK. I just want to ask you a
question that we normally ask our guest and give these
episodes. How has your previous week been
like? What have you been up to?
Oh good, that's a good. That's a good question.
Well, you know, right now we are putting some finishing touches
on our script, which is that you mentioned in the beginning that
I'm so excited about to be directing this feature film
major. So so we're doing that and also
we're gearing up for season 19 of Drag Race, so we're about to
start filming pretty soon. So we've been like discussing,
you know, all the things that are coming up and just kind of
pre production. Yeah, nice.
OK. OK.
That's nice. That's nice, DeMarcus.
It's a time to move to the next segment.
They'll put you on segment which is sponsored by.
To ask the question over here. I guess.
So when you, when you're doing your choreography, whether it's
like for movies or like the stage, like is it like, what do
you think? What's what's going on in your
mind? What are you thinking?
Because, and I'm asking from the perspective like Step up was
like one of the first dancing movies that I've seen and that
made me want to dance. And I used to watch it like,
like I'm again, I'm feeling a killer with this one.
And so I feel very inspired seeing your word like, so is, is
that something that's in your mind?
Like where? Where does it all come from?
You know, I, like I said, I watching The Wiz.
Was it a movie? I saw it in the theater when it
first came out in the theater. So that's how old I am.
But I when I, when I saw it, I just wanted to, I wanted to run
out on the street and do what they were doing on the street.
So that inspired me to do what I'm doing now.
So whenever I do films and you just said it like that is the
only thing that's on my mind. How?
How can I inspire? Like the younger generation to
want to get up and, and dance and, or even the older
generation whatever to eat. Just the audience in general.
I want them to be sitting in theater and want to get up and
do it, you know, So I don't want it to be so, so deep.
And sometimes choreography can get really internal and really
small. And you got to say, what did
that mean? I just want it to be in your
face joyful and be like, I could do that.
I want to get up and you know what I mean?
That's that's, that's really what I'm looking for when I set
out to do these films. Obviously the storyline, yeah,
you know, you have to, you know, think about what, you know,
where we are in the story. But you know, ultimately those
movies, the dance is the main character, you know, because,
you know, you, you know, every time, you know, you have a
couple lines and then they dance and then a couple lines and then
they dance. So you know that that the dance
movies that the the choreography is carrying them.
So how do you tell the story through dance or is it like a
separate conversation? Because I've noticed that you're
dancing is so joyful. That is like the if I were to
say something, I'll say Jamal selves dances joyfully, like the
brand new day choreography once the witch dies.
And but like my question is, how do you step out of that way?
You're doing something like Encanto or Hairspray or Aladdin
where you have to tell some of the narrative parts.
Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, that's where
that, you know, that's where the the directing comes in and the
director side of me comes in, you know, because, you know,
obviously I, I have to read the scripts.
I have to understand where the characters are and where they
are before the song starts and where they are after the song
starts. And a lot of story is in
between. So if I know where they are at
any one moment in the in the song, I'll know what the
characters should be doing and what types of moves they should
be doing. You know, are they sad at the
beginning and then they end up and they're in love at the end?
I know what that movement should feel like and how that
transition should go. So.
So, yeah. So that's what I'm doing all the
time. You know, I'm really diving into
the script, talking to the directors, whoever's directing
and finding out, you know, what what they want from it and what
the actors won't need, you know. So there's a lot that goes into
it. It's not Just Dance.
But what I'll do is I will build like a skeleton and then start
to see what feels right to either the actors or the
animators or whoever we're talking, you know, talking about
that with with Encanto. They gave me the script and they
were like just go. OK.
Yeah, just go create. And it's funny about that is
that they gave me the demo to Bruno to we don't talk about
Bruno. And it had and it was Lin Manuel
singing every part, everybody's part on the song.
So I don't hear when when Mirabelle comes in, I don't know
who's, you know, when they're this sounds like one voice.
So I'm in the studio like this don't sound like a whole bunch
of different people talking and go back in and like read like,
OK, this person says this line. You know, it was really that
that was a challenge, but probably one of the most
rewarding projects that worked. On an iconic project.
I got another question that we don't have to We still got time.
Where do you? Ask whatever you want to.
Where do you find the moves? I'm sure at this point you have
experienced, you're like, oh, I know what you know, dancing in
love looks like. I know what a sad dance looks
like. But where do you find the moves
is just like throughout your day-to-day life?
Like, are you, you know, is there like a big book of dance
somewhere that we don't know about?
You know, I wish there was. I wouldn't find that book.
You know, it's, it's funny because I think over the years
you just develop a catalog of, of moves.
And even if it's not the same, it could kind of feel like
something that you've already done, you know, and I, I hate, I
call it rehashing choreography that I've already done, but
there might be a feeling that I was trying to do with a certain
move. And I can say, Oh, well, I could
kind of flip that and maybe turn it.
So make this arm go up and you know what I mean?
And just make it look a little different so we can kind of feel
the same. So it really depends.
I can be inspired by kids on the street, you know, my nieces and
nephews dancing around the house.
That can inspire me. My mom and dad actually, when I
did hair spray, Adam Shankman was a choreographer.
I was associate choreographer. So when, you know, I was doing
mostly the black dancing in the movie and, and so I got my aunts
and uncles that were around in the 50s and the 60s to come in
to come. I went to their house and they
all started getting up and I was like, OK, what's that dance
called? They were OK, this is the Mashed
potato and you're doing the, the holy golly.
I, I learned all these dances. And that's kind of what you see
in Hairspray when they start dancing.
It's just my aunts and uncles dancing and the, my mom's
getting. Did you do the part?
Where it's like the three girls who were Saggy.
Did you do their Yes, I love that part.
I love that part. OK, I can say I.
Do love that part I I couldn't wait to get to that part.
Yes, yes. OK, I got to ask you one more
question too, because your fingers on the post more than
mine. We all saw Beyoncé's amazing
Coachella performance that she did a couple years ago.
That was again another unmod shoot at HBCU.
Hampton University was of course honored in her presentation.
I want to just, I don't know if you, well, you probably did.
Justin Bieber recently was at Coachella and his performance
was just him a stool and YouTube.
So I'm like, is there something I'm missing in the quality of
his performance or is it going down?
Am I uneducated on what's happening or is because like
apparently he was also paid $10 million to do this performance
and he's probably going to do it again this weekend.
So is it something I'm missing from what the new kids want to
see? You know I.
Think you know, because I don't know anything about this
performance. I don't, I, I didn't even even
find out your this is news to me what you're telling me about.
But I will say that he did something similar at the Grammys
where he was just out there, right?
He was the underwear stripped down.
And it was. Just him creating the thing.
And I think that kind of comes, you know, for me, that Grammy
performance felt like, you know, after so many years of being,
you know, doing these big shows and doing all the choreo and
choreography and, you know, the staging.
And sometimes maybe these performers just want to do their
music and they don't want a whole bunch of flash and pop in
circumstance, you know what I mean?
Like, like they just want to strip it down.
And that's what it feels like he's going through that.
I don't know that the audience wants to, you know, to do that.
But, but obviously, you know what I mean there there's, you
know, and then I also feel like today's appetite for like the
OR, or, or their, the level of, of show, there's not really a
high standard for that any longer.
I think that it's kind of starts to starts to go down.
Anytime Beyoncé comes out, it pops back up and everybody's
like, oh, that's what a show should look like, but we should
step aside. It all starts to go down a
little bit. I, I've noticed that, you know
what I mean? Like, the same level of
spectacle is not the same, you know?
And so, so, yeah, I think we are missing it because we kind of
grew up with Michael and Janet and, you know, so we know those
performances how they should be. But, you know, the kids don't
seem to too much care, you know what I mean?
It's not on that level. And that's what I think.
OK, well let's move on. I think I'm wrong.
No, no, I don't because. Beyoncé.
No, no, Beyoncé stands. Up there for 30 minutes and she
will just bail out a couple of numbers before she moves on to
during the Beyoncé thing. But then you have Usher, who is
up there, similar age, and he is on there in roller skates.
He got stripper poles. He's doing the things.
So like Justin Bieber did that in the past, but he has chosen
to do something where it's like him and he's showing some clips
of of the baby video on some memes and other things that
really aren't of his. Him performing but.
They are, you know, part of who he.
Is yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You get it?
Yeah. I don't know.
I don't know what people are thinking about.
OK, I agree with you. I like to.
See, I like to see a whole performance.
I want to see a show. I want backup dancers.
I want to throw a flip in there somewhere.
Pyro fire. All of it.
Yeah, No, me too.
Me too. OK, now we.
Can go ahead and move on to our Put You on segment Jamal, this
is a segment where we like to tell our audience something that
we really, really, really enjoyed this past week where
there's ATV show, a movie, a restaurant, anything we really
enjoyed this week and this is of course sponsored by our good
friends at MoviePass. DeMarcus, can you tell them
about MoviePass, please? Absolutely so.
MoviePass is a a subscription based service meant to make
movie going more affordable and more accessible for the everyday
person. I don't know when the last time
you've been to the movies, but the last time I went to the
movies and like actually use my own money.
I pay like $20 a ticket, you know, you know, I didn't go by
myself. So I'm pissing like $40 snacks
and stuff like the bill goes up. The movies used to be like a
nice like casual day. Now I'm putting on a suit
because I'm finishing up. You have to but with.
Movie. Pass You pay.
You pay your subscription, which could be as low as $10 a month,
and you get a number of movie credits and you can use those
credits to see multiple movies per month.
Even at that $10 here, I used to use it before we were sponsored
and I could see two to three movies, sometimes 4 movies a
month for $10 man. You use it once and it's.
Paying for itself and I talk about this every week and y'all
are still. How much more do you want to
know the? The other good thing about
Moviefest I just now discovered because last time I discovered
that you know, you use the card with the Regal app or with
whoever you see the movie with. So you still get points.
So you can go in there and get your free popcorn with the
points that you get. This week I've started actually
buying tickets for black movies that I'm not going to see like
you, me and Tuscany. I'm not going to see that movie
in theaters. You know I'm not a lovey dovey
type person but I want Chloe to succeed and I want black movies
to continue. So I have pop bought multiple
tickets even though I am not seeing it because that 800 I
have 800 points. They just go to waste every
week. Might as well use them and
support movies that need to be supported.
So that is another great thing I'm using with MoviePass.
I love. That this week.
I want to put everybody on to jury duty company.
We're treats this is on Prime Video.
Last season, their first season, they did a little it was like
kind of like candy camera where they followed this guy who was
on jury duty and they revealed he was on jury duty after three
days. This time was the guy who has
got a job that's a temp for a hot sauce company.
And it really shows all of the mishaps and things that happened
at this company retreat. It is hilarious.
They just released the behind the scenes where he meets the
person from the first season and more scenes with more funny
stuff. But there was this one scene
where they had to do all these seminars and the guy was talking
about how the guy who do who's doing a seminar was talking
about how he was scaling Mount Everest.
He got frostbite in his nether region and he had to actually
cut off his scrotum because the frostbite was going and he was
screaming. And the day he made everybody
who was attending the seminar scream and it was hilarious.
So yes, what jury duty company retreats.
It is a great, great movie. What is it all?
It is. On Prime Video OK OK yeah yeah.
DeMarcus, what about you? What do you have to put them on
to this week? So I.
Don't know if we've talked. About this one before, but I've
been binging culinary class wars we have.
We talked about it multiple times.
I talked about it. You talked about it.
We could talk about it. This show, Yeah.
So I'll talk about. It for a third time, Culinary
Class Wars is a Korean cooking competition show where they have
big name Korean chefs. These are people who are
established multiple Michelin stars, multiple restaurants,
hugely successful competing against up and coming chefs.
So there there might not be some of them.
Them are like also. Have big names.
On a restaurant that is like packed out every day of the
week. Some of them are just like, I
mean, I cook on YouTube and I have a great time.
Most are just mom and. Pop stores, right?
Yeah, and. So.
They, they, they're competing against each other like the,
the, the low, the low grade ones are like the, the black spoons,
the Michelin star ones are like the white spoons.
And they're competing to see who is the best chef.
And the judges on the this show are throat.
They they are. Cut throat like.
There's one that's like a very, he's like a elite class.
Like he only has like Michelin star restaurants and like only
does fine dining. And he will taste their food and
be like, no, yeah, the guy. It's.
Much more like. Relaxed and chill but still very
cut throat. Like I see I saw one episode and
the guy like made a chicken sandwich like macaroni and
stuff. He's like they're telling his
whole story and he spent like 5 minutes on this guy.
The judge comes up by some sandwich.
He's like, I expected so much more and this is just a chicken
sandwich. It is.
It is a.
Great. An amazing show, yeah.
The story I like to. Tell is that the the the the
first episode they did this whole story about how one of
these chefs, he had to get this apple.
He was taking the sugars from the apple.
He was making it into this candied apple thing and he had
to take the colors from the apple and he had to extract all
the apple essence and put it in there that he made an apple
phone from the apple pulp. And and when the judge bit into
this candy apple of an apple, it looks amazing.
And he was known for making this apple in Korea.
He bit it and says taste like an apple.
Yeah, you can go on home now. He said it's it was one note, He
said. I would rather have had the
apple. Yes, he said that I was.
Like wow, it took like that life work.
Yes it took him like 3 years to develop this technique and he
was like tastes like an apple. Awful.
Yeah, and one more note on the show.
You have to. When a chef comes up and says,
oh, my restaurant has been packed for months.
I've never had an empty seat. You got to look up the
restaurant because. I did that.
Before Little Bitty Restaurant the tables like I'm like cooked
out. You can't see nobody in there.
Of course it's back, right? That's.
Funny. Oh, yeah, I have to check it
out. I have to check that out.
It sounds fun. OK, Jamal.
What do you have to put our listeners on to this week?
Well. Well, what I've been binging
since you were talking about that I've been binging old, old
episodes of Project Runway. I I can't I.
Can't get enough like I cannot like I'll, I'll turn on the
episode and I end up watching like 3 or 4 episodes, I promise
every night. So there's that.
But yeah, it, it, it's, it's it, it's probably, you know, Drag
Race, you know, feels very Project Runway.
It feels like the same type of type of energy, right?
But just to see what the, you know, what we can do, you know,
these, these talented designers come up with, you know, you
know, just giving some vegetables and you know, they
make a dress and you know, it's, it's incredible.
I, I love seeing that stuff. Creativity is I'm always going
to like, yeah, yeah, I, I. Used to love Project Runway
after Christian Serranio season. Yeah, it was.
Why even go back? But I do need to go back and
delve back in there. You don't know Christian.
Sounds like one way. Don't do like that, OK?
I'm worldly, I. Have experience?
Do you know about Christine? Serranio No, I don't know the
people's names. OK.
Not all that, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But I'm saying Project Runway. Yeah.
I think that he. Is like a a judge on Project
Runway the host now? Yeah, he's he's like the.
Tim. Tim, Yeah.
Tim yeah, he's he's, he takes he.
Took his position, OK, OK, but. I it kind of coaches the the.
The designer and stuff like that, but he has made dresses.
For Michelle Obama, for a bunch of people, I think that Beyoncé
had worn her him before. He is an amazing, amazing
dressmaker. I also.
I also started DJ ING this. I bought my my my.
Every I put all the equipment and so that's a new passion for
me and I, I cannot wait to to DJ my first party and it's coming
up. I have one, I have a big one
coming up. So yeah, yeah, I'm getting in
there. I'm getting into pain.
Do you have any like? Online sets?
Any live mixes we can check out? I have.
I haven't even. Literally this week I just got
my equipment. I'm starting.
OK, OK. I mean, you know, obviously I
love music and I've been around music all my life and, you know,
just working out with a couple of my friends that are DJs, you
know, I I just understood what it is, you know, and, and it
feels very natural to who I am. So hopefully I'll, you know,
I'll be alright When, when, you know, it comes around.
And yeah, yeah, I'm going to do some stuff in my backyard, have
a couple people over and, you know, I'm just practice.
There you go. Yeah, yeah.
I just listen to Kid Fury's podcast about being out there in
a music scene. He's like childish people don't
know what they doing. So I'm glad that they are going
to be more DJs out in that scene for him.
Absolutely. All right, DeMarcus.
Do we have an activity for this week?
Of course we have an. Activity all right and it it is
your first time joining us the way activities and games work
here on Black geek energy is DeMarcus is the game master the
the head honcho the the the HNIC when it comes to pain and
activity here on black energy so that means I come up with the
games I come up with the questions the answers I decide
who's right who's wrong who wins who loses it's all up to me God
and. He's saying this because he
knows he's going to embarrass me, these guys.
Get to embarrass you, Jerry, and you say this all the time and if
you keep saying that people are going to believe you that's my.
Assaults. To get the evidence.
So any way. The game today is.
Going to be called choreo or cap what I'm.
Going to do is. I am going to give you a
statement about choreography and you all will tell me if it is
real, if it is choreo or if it is cap, if it is, if it's fake.
When you say cat is like catfish, cap cap oh.
Cat isn't. A lot, yeah.
Yeah. Not true.
That's how old I am. Yeah.
I'm barely keeping up with lingo.
Too, I can't hang with these Y NS wario cap.
I got it. Wario cap All right, OK, I'm.
We're going to go, We're going to go one for one.
I'm thinking of a number between 1:00 and 4:00.
I will. Abstain and I will let Jamal go
first if he wants to outracious I'm.
Going to say 1. All right.
OK, OK. 1. That's the best number.
OK, great, Jamal. We'll let.
You go first. OK, All right, So the first one
here. Choreographers will sometimes
create fake mistakes in routines on purpose to make performances
feel more human and less robotic.
Cap. Cap OK.
OK, this one is real. Is is what it says.
And the. This is a great entry point to
talk about performance versus perfection and how things that
are too clean can feel unnatural.
Is this, do you, have you seen this in your experience?
I have never. Well, OK.
This, this, this is the thing. If we're talking films and if
it's a part of the story in a film, yes, I've choreographed
things that felt not good because they have to show
there's progression over time, right?
But on stage, never have I ever met performer, and I've worked
with a lot of them. That said, I want to mess up so
it looks more real. Fair enough.
Yeah, all right, all right. Jared #2 Backup dancers are
often told to intentionally hold back their energies so they
don't outshine the main artists on stage.
False. That's cap.
I never told that backup dancers
better outperform. And you know who they're not
going to outperform? Because if I get on that.
Stage I will not be outperformed by anybody.
OK. Is that?
So this has never happened you that you guys don't want the the
backup to like let the let the front person shine.
No, it's happened. Before.
Oh, really? Oh yeah.
Oh wow. This one says it's real.
Oh yeah. Yeah, I've been told by an
artist which dancers are the worst ones.
And then I'm like, why don't hire bad dancers?
They're like, they're like, we'll put the worst ones by me
so I look better, you know? What I mean?
Yeah. So, so this, this, you know, you
find that, you know, there's a lot of insecurities with
artists, you know, and so you kind of have to just.
Go over, you know, rock. With it, you know, hold their
egos. Yeah, yeah.
I'm not going to be outshine. By nobody on those.
Right, all right, mall #3 back to you.
Most viral TikTok dances are created by the artist official
choreographer as part of the marketing rollout.
That's. Cap.
Yeah, Well, that is Cap. That is great.
Have you have you ever choreographed the TikTok bands?
You know what? Anything that has caught on for
me, like all the things that have caught on for me have been
just through people doing the dances, like seeing the the like
the Hannah Montana hoe down, throw down.
The New Girl in town from Hairspray is a TikTok and that's
going on. There's Toni Braxton.
He wasn't man enough for me. But yeah, they're.
Doing. That and so it's just I never
intended it to be a TikTok thing, but it happens, you know,
so those are the the the that's that's what's so fun about that
whole thing, because I think when you go in with the
attention, like this has got to be a TikTok viral thing.
It don't happen. Let's go fly.
You know what I mean? Like you just got to go with
intention, you know, you just got to hope that people find it
and it resonates with someone that you know what I mean?
That's kind of how it's happening.
So pause. You did.
He wasn't bad enough for me. I did.
Wow. So how did you?
Feel that when that research with the breakup and show her
doing Tony stair. How did you feel with all that?
I love it. I love it every second of.
It because it was so long ago, you know, I did it with my
partner at the time, Rizzo McCoy.
So we did it together. But yeah, I was, I was there.
We we were in there in the paint.
Yeah. The mower was like.
Hey, I did that. I didn't even know it was like,
gone viral until somebody was like, you know, these dances.
And I was like, oh, and I just saw them.
Yes, everybody. Was through.
I I did a scroll one time, just watched everybody do the dance.
I'm like, oh. This is cute.
Next one. Next one, Jerry.
We're back to you. In some professional routines,
dancers are choreographed to hit moves slightly before the beat
to make the performance feel sharper on camera.
Yikes. I don't know, I I don't know, I
don't know. I must say choreography, choreo.
Oh, OK. Because it does kind of look
that way on stage if you like. If you look at it then the
person watch, I don't know, it kind of looks, I don't know if
you look at the person on stage and did the video screen behind
him, it kind of looks like they're not synced up, but they
are synced up on the video thing.
So I don't know. Yeah, well, this.
One does say. Real and this is this is.
About. Musicality perception I think.
Like cuz sound travels slower than light or something like
that. Wow, so is that.
Something that y'all do when y'all are it's never it never.
Never, never. Never.
I don't know.
You know, it it you know, out of all the things I've done, I've
always done it on on the beat. Now live performances, there is
a delay in the in the music, you know, so sometimes the dancers
need to hear have in ears monitors so they could hear the
actual music. So everybody on time.
But but as far as like, you know, hitting the beat prior to
so it looks extra sharp. That's never been a because.
You don't want to be. Ahead of the beat and people
recognize when you're off beat. You know one thing that even if
you have like 0 choreo experience, you'd be like oh
that's off beat, you know what I mean?
You don't want to be but before or after the beat, you know, you
want on the beat every time. Now you know, even for filming
wise, like there's there's tricks to to speed up the the
film. So I mean, when you, when you're
filming dance, there's there's tricks to slow down film, speed
it up to make it look sharper or make it look or, you know, but
that doesn't have anything to do with the tempo that you're
supposed to keep, you know, OK, OK.
Interesting. All right, we get we separating
the real from the fake for real. All right #5.
Or you. Jamal.
Choreographers sometimes build routine specifically to look
better on camera on camera angles, rather than look good
live. That's choreography, yeah, that
is. That is real.
What is? What is that?
I feel like I see that when like, like I see like about
behind the scenes something or rather and you see and then show
you like the movie scene. I'm like, oh, this was really
good. And then they'll show you like
the set and I'm like, oh, what are they doing?
Absolutely. You know, West Side Story,
that's like, you know, when, when you watch West Side Story
and the dancing that Jerome Robbins, when he choreographed
it, he choreographed for camera, you know, walking, you know,
the, the cameras tracking with them and then they come down,
they drop down and, you know, they drop into the frame.
So you really feel the impact of, of, of the choreography.
Sometimes, I mean, directors will just film choreography here
and it's just kind of flat and you don't, it doesn't.
It doesn't. Penetrate the screen, right.
So when you want the the movement to feel like, oh, like
I'm in it, I'm in the performance with them.
And for that you have to choreograph for the camera, and
then that's nice. All right, I I think that the
best. Choreography I've seen on camera
is was during adolescence, the school scene, because, you know,
it was all one, one shot, so it had to be choreographing.
It was so many different people moving and talking and going in
and out and going up and down stairs.
It was it was amazing how they did that.
Yeah, it's it's. It's a it's, it's definitely.
You know it when you see it. You know that.
Oh, they did that for the cat, Yeah.
Yeah, well, all right, Jared. Number six, freestyling, is
considered unprofessional in most commercial dance settings
and is usually discouraged during rehearsals.
I think that's cap. That's absolutely cap.
Yeah, that's the heartbeat of it all.
Right. Yeah, absolutely.
All right #7 Jamal, some choreographers create signature
moves in routines specifically so they can go viral or be
easily copied by fans. Look, I will say choreography,
because that's what people would like to think.
And it, it this goes this, this is, it's kind of like the hook
of the song, right? So you kind of want to find
something that's to the hook of the song, whether it be this or
you know what I mean? And, and so you can hope that it
goes viral, but maybe people don't pick up on that part.
Maybe they pick up on this part, you know what I mean?
So you you can't really figure it out, but I think it is smart
to try and find little signature things.
When I choreographed ushers, you make me want to.
I was trying to think of like, what?
What can people walk away with? And I was like, let's leave our
shoes on the floor. Like when we just what, when we
just finished the breakdown, we just going to take off our shoes
and walk away. And that was the thing, you
know, But I didn't wasn't sure that it was going to be a thing.
But it did end up being something that people imitated,
you know what I mean? So it's kind of like writing a
song. You want to find something
that's clever that people have never really seen before that
makes an impact. Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely. And I love it.
I love, I love it when it's an easy move that I can do.
Yes, I can tell you one time. And I can just.
Like, take it home. Like yeah I can.
I got this bug. All right, Jared, back to you
number. 8 Dancers often are often required to learn and
perform choreography mirrored on the opposite side, depending on
the camera direction or staging. That's Cat.
Oh, this says that it's real. So like you, if you position on
the right today, you got to know how to do those moves.
Like you didn't say that. What do you want me to?
Say. The.
The the dancer have. To learn though all the like, if
you're placed in a dance, you have to learn the left side, the
right side, the front side, the backside.
You have to learn all the I I thought you would have known.
This all the years you spent in the band because you usually get
moved from squad 8 to squad 2 and then you got to go the
opposite way. I know this because.
I was the coordinator for Ebony Fire for 10 years.
We. Have to always pull.
From one position to another position.
If a girl could not get her marks.
So yes, yeah. It was the way you worded.
That question it was. Very.
Excuses, OK. OK.
All right #9. Wind it down, Jamal.
In professional choreography, facial expressions are usually
left completely up to the dancer and are really directed.
This, this is tricky because ordinary like on just a general,
yes, it's left up to the dancers.
So that's choreography. But there are some.
Some numbers where they don't want to see, they want to see no
expression on your face and that and that is something that's
specific. You know what I mean?
Like it's not like, you know, they they just want emotion, no
emotion and just let the dance be the emotion, the movement of
the body. So I've seen it both ways, but
I'm going to I'm going to say Corey Iron.
OK this. One says it's cap, but I believe
you. I've seen, I feel like I've seen
this both ways too. Like in like in some, like in
like even like even going to step up like they they got real,
you know, active with their faces.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 1000% But you know, you
know, I it's, it's, it's some, some choreographers don't like a
whole bunch of dancers doing expressions.
So they would like watch it, you know, like some people like,
yeah, I want you to feel it, feel, you know, let me see what
you're going through. You know, so I do think it's,
it's just kind of like the choice of the director, you
know, I know. Like if I'm, if I'm dancing like
are you, you go see it on my face.
I'm like alright. Alright dude, last. 1.
Some artists choose. Simpler choreography, not
because they can't do harder moves, but because it connects
better with audiences. I'm going to say.
Cory choreo. I'm going to say choreo because
I've seen like, you know, he did a bookie, bookie Boo, that was.
And he said that he made that kind of simpler because, you
know, he wanted everybody to do it.
So yeah, I was. We kind of talked about this
earlier. We, you know, choreographers put
things in that that the audience can like, walk away with.
You can take this dance move and do it at home.
Yeah. But it's.
Also, like right and the song, like, I mean, some singers sing
really simple melodies so. So people get at home kid could
sing along with it. It's the same concept.
Yeah. Because, you know, I.
Could, you know, I could listen to Eminem and him rapping fast
and enjoy it, but I'm not never going to sing that right?
Me neither. I I know.
I Yeah, give me. The song song where he he
repeats the the lyrics 75 times and he raps the lyrics.
Give me that anything. I'm right there with you.
I got it. Karaoke night.
I'm. There, all right.
And so the final. Score is 3 to 3.
We're going to have to call this 1A draw.
So that means, Jamal, we'll have to have you back on the show so
we can figure out who's the winner here.
But for this game, I feel like I learned more than you know, then
what was already in the game. That's amazing, no?
I, I, you don't threaten me with a good time, I'll I'll be back
anywhere. All right, Jamal.
I want to not leave without asking you some questions about
your upcoming film that was produced by Madam Oprah Winfrey.
And as you know, me and DeMarcus were a part of the Hampton
University Marching Forest. We and I also was.
Was a. Member a a choreographer Co
captain coordinator for Ebony fire dance team, which is the
dance team at Hampton University and you are actually making a
film about the major rats yes what now I think that when I
read the. What this film was going to be
about, it really resonated with me.
Especially because you have a ballerina coming to a HBCU.
All we get at Hampton is ballerinas, and I'm annoyed, but
I'm happy because we can't do the days that they do at Jackson
State because, you know, ballerina's doing that.
It doesn't look right, and we understand that.
But what we can do, we have those legs attached.
We have a split, a split, a split leak.
We can, we can have all the jumps on the nice aerials, all
the tumbling and it will look fantastic.
So when it comes to your film, which one are you going to do
because you're down South, you know, we had the little the
leeway of being a little bit to the north.
Yeah, which one are you going? Are you going to do the heavy
and said that split leaps and split what I was saying switch
leaps and the. Aerials or are you?
Going to be like a you know what getting.
Down. Honestly, we're doing.
It all, and that's and and and and you know, you find through
the story, you know what, what I what you know, whenever I read a
script or I always try to figure out like, how can I see myself
in this? And honestly, like I am, I'm not
a trained dancer. I've never, I had never taken a
class. You know, never trained.
Jazz, ballet, nothing. I just trained myself off the
TV. So I was watching the Michael
Thriller and beat it and doing all the things.
And that's really how I learned how to dance was through
television. And then as soon as I graduated
high school, Michael Jackson had an audition for remember the
Time. And I end up auditioning for
that. And that was my first job that I
ever did. But, you know, that was just
because I can pick up choreography from the and I
could imitate people, right? So, you know, a lot of times
when I would come in to auditions after I was, you know,
I had worked with Michael Jackson, I had worked with
RuPaul. I'd worked with a lot of big
artists at the time and people would be like, oh, that's that
boy that, you know, he's not really technically he did never
trained before, But so let's see what he can do, if he can do
what we you know. So I know what that feels like
to come from a different type of world and being thrust into a
world where people have trained all their lives and, and, you
know, and have done a particular style of dance and, you know,
they're looking at you like, well, can he, you know, can he
do this, you know, and so, you know, so I really, the story
resonated with me with this particular, you know, our lead
characters of Ballerina. She goes to HBCU in the South.
And you know, they're, they're, they're in the dirt, they're in
the paint, they walking, they're doing the whole 9.
And she has to find her way into it.
And, and through that, they learned some stuff from her.
You know what I mean? They might.
I'm not going to want to give a hallway, but that's kind of the
vibe, OK. OK, that sounds that sounds real
because you know, every dance team I know at Hampton
especially, you know they they always come up with what do you
have to come with what any tips on the audition process?
We say just count to 8. There you go.
We'll. Get.
It in the end, you can have no training or you can have Yeah,
that's right. Yeah, absolutely.
You know what's funny is. Because you know, with a lot of
you know a lot, you know, when you train as a ballerina all
your life, you know, that is it's it's intense.
I just went to Alvin. It actually for the first time I
I was able to catch them here in in LA and you realize how much
work and dedication it takes to become a ballet dancer at that
level and those techniques that you've learned it's hard to
unlearn them. You know you.
Know so. That's a, that's a skill you
have to have. You have to give yourself
permission to deconstruct all the things you've been learning
since you were like years old to be able to do some of this stuff
that these majorette dancers are doing.
So I, I, you know, I, I love this movie so much and I, you
know, I can't wait to till we get started.
Nice. How much of the movie?
Is coming from like your own personal experience, like
working with trained dancers and untrained dancers?
How much of that are you putting into the movie?
Do you have a preference on who you work with?
You know, no, I just want them to be good.
I just want them to be somebody that's that's magnetic.
Magnetic, you know, and on and, and, and relentless.
Like I, I, I would love to see all these Beyoncé's on screen.
Just a limit, you know, everybody a star in their own
right, you know, and just to uplift, you know, our, our black
female voices. And, you know, it's just such a
great opportunity for me, you know?
Yeah, yeah. I, I, I'm very excited for this.
I want to talk a little bit about the coach of the team.
I haven't heard anything about her.
Can you, if it's, you know, if it's something you can't spoil,
is there any type of hints you can give us about the coach of
this team? Is she an old coach?
Is she a new coach? You know, is she, is she
somebody who is very, you know, willing to try new things like
who is the coach at the team? This is what I'll say.
This is what I'll tell you you. Know what you.
What, you know, even what I was doing when the beat drops and I
was interviewing the the young ladies at Jackson State
University, you realize that, you know, there's a long legacy
in some of these, you know, like in some of these positions, like
it goes like my mom was AJ Set, my grandmother was AJ Set, you
know. So you realize that, you know,
they have been doing it for the years and generations.
And, you know, so I will say that it is she is a part of the
generational piece of of the, you know, majorettes, you know,
so she's she might not be that old.
She's not that young, you know what I mean?
She's in there. But.
She has the experience, you know, and that's, you know, she
really is. I don't want to give it away,
but yeah, it's a good part. It's a good part because I can.
I can see. Some like some things, some
things coming up where like, because when you have these like
generational positions or whatever, like they, they, they
already have it in their mind of like what this is like this is
what it means to to be a J set and it's not going to change
with you with. You, the band, will still go out
with or without you, that's what.
That's what Brit Michelle Martin always said.
The band doesn't need you to survive.
I have to ask this is something cuz I have been prepping for
this interview. I'm asking a lot of band people
what to ask you cuz I've been nervous and excited.
They all want to know because this is going to be the latest
HBCU band movie specifically. You know, we haven't had one of
those since Jerome Blind and we are all waiting for a new one.
I got my groups that I posted the Variety article into.
They were all super excited. Even my dance groups, they're
all super excited. They're like, oh child, will you
hear the audition? Let me know.
But one question that they were all.
Very excited to know. About is, you know, there was a
part in drumline where there was something he had to do,
something extra to be in the band, which is a big part of
these majorette teams. I know that J sets recently got
in trouble for their extra practices and there are a lot of
teams that do them. Is there going to be a part in
your movie that deals with these extra practices that go on
before? You ask this question, we're
going to leave here. Knowing the whole.
Movie, right? Sorry.
Sorry, sorry. You know what I will say?
Lauren Smith, our writer, she did such a beautiful job at
making sure that the, that this story really feels current and
deals with all the issues that are happening today, you know,
and, and so it feels real, you know, and that's, you know,
honestly, I think, you know, black people in general, like we
feel when things are false, you know, somebody can dance, they
could do 3 counts and you'll be like, no, no, that ain't real.
She, you know, fake. She can sing 3 notes.
Oh, she can't even sing, you know, like we know it really
fast and we can't fake it. And I, that's one thing about
this film that I don't ever want to do is.
And Lauren agrees. Like we can't have any false
moments and everything has to be authentic and everything has to
be real. So when I say that, I say that
because it deals with all of it that's happening.
You know what I mean right now, right?
Great answer. I have a more behind.
The scenes question. I've because.
I work, I work in tech and AI is pretty much like taking over.
I use AI, yeah. Is how is AI working its way
into choreography and dance And what does that look like?
It is it. Is yeah, you've seen these,
you've seen these things on. I just posted actually the other
day the The Golden Girls were doing that dinner TikTok dance,
the chicken, chicken wicket, wicket wicket, the you all know
what I'm talking about. No, a little tick tock dance.
But they were all The Golden Girls were doing it basically.
And they were getting it and I thought it was hilarious.
And so I kind of reposted and somebody was like, man, I love
you and I love your work. And, you know, as a
choreographer, you know, we, we kind of should be careful about
reposting AI, you know, or, you know, people doing other
people's choreography that are AI.
And I'm like, yo, you know, I just didn't think about it like
that because that's what could replace us, right?
Like they could just take videos of people dancing on the street
and just put the characters on. And then before you know it, you
know, that's that's our job. What are we going to do?
You know, we're probably still far away from that.
But I'm just saying like, you know, it's good to understand
that that's where it could possibly be, you know, and it's
easy. Easier said than, you know, I
mean, it's oh, it's here. People are doing it like they
have Fred, you know, Sanford and Son doing the dances and they
have, you know, good times. And so it's, you know, I, I see
that happening, you know, and it's, it's scary.
But one thing you can't do is like replace the human spirit.
And so no matter what, you know, how much AI tries to, you know,
get off all the fields. That's something that's just
you're not going to be able to do that.
They might be able to do the moves, but it won't feel the
same. Yeah, you can.
You can take the recipe. But you ain't the chef.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Well, we are all very excited for Major.
A lot of dancers want you to send you their dance resumes and
will you please? Oh, OK.
Are you filming in Atlanta? Yes, we are.
OK, sure. I can send it to you right after
this. So this is this is what?
This is what I'll say is that we're going to have auditions in
Atlanta as well. So we'll I'll stay in touch and
I'll let you know when, when that, you know, we plan to do
that so we can make a thing out of it.
You know what I mean? I really want to make sure that
we have the best of the best in the cream of the crop.
You know, they are with us because, like I said, this is
our this is our shot to put it on the big screen.
And it's it's big and it's got to be right.
So yeah, yeah, you, you know. I I can let you know dancers, I
can let you know band members. But if you need a consultant,
yeah, yeah. Yeah, OK.
Let me tell. You something.
We'll, we'll talk. We'll talk, OK.
I'm I'm. I'm available for all
conversations. All right, we.
Are going to move on. I don't think I can ask all the
questions I would that y'all want me to ask because I think
he's under NDA guys. So let's move on to the 17
questions now, Jamal, these are questions about some things we
have talked about on other podcast episodes, some things we
have talked about on this episode, some things that we
just want to know. So Are you ready for that 17
questions? Let's go.
All right, so. This is a quick fire, so you can
answer it with just the answer or you can give us the a full
spiel about it. You know, this is a podcast.
We would prefer the full spiel, but if you want to just give us
the answer, you could just give us that.
OK, here we go. First question, what superpower
would you have for you? Could have a superpower I'd fly.
I like to, I would love to fly, love to be able to fly and just
travel. I love travelling so I go all
over the world, OK? Who was right, Professor X or
Magneto? Oh, Professor X, you, you're
like me. I was, I said Professor X for a
long time. You say not.
Yeah, I switched because. Professor X he's he's, he's done
a lot of shady things, get the names, all for the greater good.
But it's like, hey, how good does it get, right?
I understand. Yeah, out of all.
Of your years on RuPaul's Drag Race.
Who is your? Favorite member of the pit crew.
I you know what? I don't really know.
Them that well, you know, but there was a a guy in the very
early beginning, his name was Miles Moody and he was one of
the first like some of the OG hit crew.
I loved Miles and I I love Bruno too.
Bruno's great. He's such a nice guy.
Such. A nice guy.
OK, who is your favorite dancer? Juicy.
Love Dion or Mia? Starr, that is so hard.
Come on. Y'all can't do this to me.
Wait, wait. I have to.
Tell I have to tell DeMarcus who these people are.
These are people of Rufa's Drag race currently.
Mia Starr is an amazing dancer. She has danced with Britney
Spears. She's, as with other great
artists, juicy love Dionne is a great technical dancer.
She can all the jump shoe daughter, all the splits hand
stands. She is great.
So but but Mia Starr, she has said in her confessionals that
she's not good at she's good at choreographed dancing.
She's not good at the on the spot dancing that that sucks
back. To you, Jamal, who's your?
Favorite, you know it's. Funny because I've worked with
you know, obviously I've worked with them on the show, but I you
know, outside the show, I know I know Mia as a dancer, you know,
and Mia was absolutely incredible.
She was booking job. I mean he was booking jobs.
So I think that in an it's like apples and oranges.
It's it's, it's, it's judging somebody that's technical, like
a juicy and then somebody that is raw like like Mia and it's
hard to to judge, you know, damn, I, I, I guess I'm happy to
say Mia because I've known Mia the long.
What is your favorite horror movie?
Oh, this is. Good.
This is good. It definitely was.
Do do do do do. It's a toss up, but.
I'm going to go ahead and say Get Out was probably quiet.
That's a good one. Yeah.
When it, when it feels real, like this stuff can really
happen, that's when I'm like, oh, shoot, you know, here.
We go what? Was it a toss up with, well,
obviously the original Halloween with Jason Michael Myers?
Yes, yes, that. Took me as a kid.
I was Halloween. I didn't even want to go out on
Halloween. I was like, y'all can have all
the candy up and stay right up in this house, OK?
What is your favorite lip sync number from Drag Race?
Favorite lip sync number from Drag Race?
You know what it was? Oh, gosh, there's so many good
ones. There's there's so many good
ones. I would have to say I I actually
enjoyed, which was weird just recently with Mia and yes, yeah,
yeah, I thought it was when they came on stage.
This is. Magical.
Yeah, Yeah. Yeah, them two together because.
Most recent in my brain. But yeah, that's that's crazy.
OK. What's your favorite Martin or
living single Oh. Martin for.
Sure. I was there every Sunday for
sure. Yes, yes.
OK, who is your favorites gay Disney villain?
Doctor Facilier, that's been the answer a lot.
Lately I don't. See it?
I just see Keith David. I don't see I need to watch that
movie again 'cause I do not see a gay person, not over Scott.
I played, I played. Doctor Facilier in Descendants
3, the Disney Channel movie I play.
Oh. So I know for OK, what is your
favorite TV theme song of all time?
Oh God. OK, so I'm going to tell you it
is The Golden Girls. Thank you for being that.
That's my all time favorite. But good times is like right.
It's like right there. I love it.
I love it so much. OK, OK, see nobody.
'S ever said. Good times there.
Nobody's ever gone back that far.
That's a good one. Well, that's because I'm old.
That's because I'm old. But let me tell you, those
songs, those theme songs back then were everything like 227.
Good times. Come on.
Oh, they don't even know about. OK, what is your favorite adult
cartoon or what's your favorite cartoon that you watch as an
adult as an. Adult.
It would have to be The Simpsons for sure.
OK, OK. Classic.
Yeah, classic all.
Right, you are tasked by the President Obama not.
With giving. With giving aliens a concert
film that will save humanity after they watch it.
What concert do you give to these aliens?
I give. Them Michael Jackson.
At. His Budapest live OK saves the
world. Yeah, freaking.
I would wear Moonwalker out on the VHS.
That was yeah, that was magic. Yeah.
OK. Who is the best dad on TV?
The best dad on TV would have to be John Witherspoon's in Friday.
Yeah, yes. Yeah, brother.
Yes, yes. Yes, on yes, the Wayne brothers,
right? Yeah, the Wayne brothers, yeah,
nobody said that but that. Is so true, but.
John Winterson. Yeah, John Winterson.
Is also a good dad in the boondocks as well.
Yeah, yeah. Friday.
Yeah, Friday. Yeah, yeah.
OK. RRP.
Yeah. RRP Who is your favorite
superhero? Favorite superhero?
Hero is Wonder Woman, no? Yeah, OK.
So you just like. The twirling around loved it.
I'm about got it. Let me tell you something.
That did something for me as a kid and I don't know what.
It's so funny. My my my straight male cousins
said when we would play super friends that I would tell them
I'm going to be 1 demand not one so I could go and I could do
that just. Yeah.
They shouldn't know back then that.
What I where I was going. But, you know, what do you say?
That's what I was attracted to. I loved.
I loved everything about it. Yeah.
OK, who is your favorite black
character? Who isn't black?
And for this one, I know that some of the past ends up being
the TS region in the Turtles. Panthro from Thundercats, of
course. The Simpsons people.
So who is your favorite black character who isn't necessarily
black? This is.
Hilarious. Oh gosh, when I have to think
about it. You know what, Scooby-doo?
I think Scooby you. Know what?
You think about. It.
You know that I don't know, You know the way, right?
You know, definitely somebody like old.
Uncle. OK, OK, OK.
Who is your favorite rapper turned into an actor?
Oh gosh, T. ITI.
TI. TI it is.
Over Will Smith. I love Will.
I do love Will. But there's something about TI,
you know? He's just, there's something so
authentic and real about him, you know?
Yeah, yeah, I agree. And also.
Will obviously will. I mean, obviously, yeah.
I forget, I forgot. OK, OK, OK.
What is 1 trend that you do not want to see anymore on Drag
Race? And you know that this season
Michelle has talked about she doesn't want to see anymore
Marie Antoinette. She doesn't want to see any more
of that. So what's 1 trend that you don't
necessarily want to see on Drag Race anymore?
I don't want to see anybody do that on on the.
Catch. What is it?
Come on Jamal, not catch phrase but the game show Snatch Game.
Yes. Thank you.
Thank you, Thank you. Snatch Game.
I don't want to see anybody do a Kardashian anymore on the on
the. There's been a lot of Kim
Kardashian and I'm just like, those just never really pan out.
Yeah, yeah. OK, OK, OK.
And finally, what's one thing that the industry gets wrong
about black creatives? Industry gets.
Wrong about black creators. I just think they get wrong.
That. We could do it all.
Like I, you know, I, I don't, you know, I think putting people
in a box is, you know, if you think that, you know, a black
person can't do horror or, you know, that's wrong, it's been
proven wrong, you know, and I, I think that that's, you know,
it's, it's very, especially when it comes to genre and, and you,
you never know people's we're so diverse and we, we have so, so
much, you know, our backgrounds are so different.
You know, I, I, I hate when people say, you know, oh, a
black character couldn't do that, you know, yeah, that's a
lie, you know, yeah. And I, and, and because we love
we, we love it all, you know, like I, I was, you know, Cowboys
were black before, you know what I mean?
So country, you know, westerns were black people, you know what
I mean? So, you know, yeah, we could do
it all. All this stuff was.
Black before they came and stole.
Well, Jamal, this is the end of our show.
Look, I just got to tell you that I got you in front of me on
this zoom. All my life you have been a
light. You have been a guiding star.
You have been a inspiration. I have try to make try to
indulate some things that have been fired you off of your
dances. I have always look to the joy in
your dancing, the smile on your face, the niceness and the
realness of your critiques. Everything that you do and the
way you present yourself has been a guiding star for me in my
life these past couple of years. Your documentary definitely
inspired me because that's we. Said I was.
Dancing in the stands, getting fire from my job.
So I like seeing myself in that and seeing those things that
people because I knew about it, but seeing it and seeing us
highlighted really meant a lot to me.
So thank you for that and this upcoming thing.
As I said, I've worked with Ebony Fire for 10 years.
Thank you so much for even bringing this small little part
of the whole black diaspora to the screen.
Means so much to me, to all the girls who I have talked to over
these past couple of weeks, and to all of the band kids that I
have talked to as well. This means a lot to us.
And it means a lot to them too, because, you know, dancers, they
don't get scholarships like the real band members, dudes.
So it means a lot to us that you are including them.
So it's thank you, thank you, thank you.
And I am always looking out for what is your mom going to do
next? How is your mom going to make me
smile and make me laugh in this next great work of art?
So thank you, thank you, Thank you very much for just being
here today. You made me tear up a.
Little bit No, honestly, thank you That that that, you know, as
an artist, all we can hope is that we inspire or we uplift or
we do some sort of good in the world.
And so when you hear somebody like yourself, you know, say
that it means so much to me. And I'm not I'm not just saying
it because we're here. I'm saying it because that's
what I that's what I set out to do, you know, So the fact that
it it it has happened is it means everything.
And I think you guys just, you know, for taking out, you know,
an hour or so of your time to to chat with me.
I mean it, this has been so fun, so easy.
And there's a there's one of do you know Richard Jackson by any
chance? You know, the Richie Jackson he
used to choreograph for, for, I mean, yeah, he used to
choreograph for Gaga and I. Anyways, he's a really good
friend of mine. But you sound just.
When I hear your voice. I think I'm talking to Richie.
I'm like, Oh my God, if you look him up, if you hear, you see
some interviews, you'll hear of you like, but usually when you
tell somebody to do that, they're like, don't sound like
that, you know, But honestly, that's, that's what I hear.
But he's, he's an amazing person.
I look forward to continuing our conversation because I, I would
love to talk to you more about the, the, the film and, and the
dancer, all that stuff because I am here.
Yeah, I am here, Marcus. I appreciate.
You, your, your, your, the questions and, and honestly,
like this is, this is all of us together.
And it feels so cool to be able to have, you know, conversations
with people who you know, or, or straight or, or whatever, you
know what I mean? Like it's, it's all, it's I, I
love it. I love it so much.
And you know, I, I. And I, I love having guests on
the show because a lot of times I learned that like, I've been a
fan of this person my entire life and.
That's what I learned. So glad to have you.
Thank you. Jamal, where can they?
Find you if they want to get to know more about you.
Yeah, on, on. My socials, it's all Jamizzi,
JAMIZZI. And that's on, on, on everything
across the the universe. Yeah, yeah and yeah.
You can also find him on YouTube in some old decades old of
instructional videos. You don't have to find me that
don't you that. You don't have to find me there
if you. Don't want that.
Don't tell these people to go and do nothing that they don't
want to see. All right, and you can find.
Us at black energy or on Twitter BG under score pod and again
Jamal Sims, thank you for coming on.
You were great. I know we kept you a little bit
overtime, but you were amazing today.
Thank you thank you thank you so much for the bottom of my heart.
Thank you and we can't wait to have you back.
What's this movie is out and it's it's all said and done.
We got to have you back. We do, and I'll be here.
I'll be here. We get everybody in the in the
in the theaters and, you know, buying the tickets with the with
the movie pass. Yeah, with MoviePass.
Come on now. Yeah, every day.
Those 800 points, right, All right.
And that's it. See you guys next week.
Thank you. Oh my God.